James Sexton
Appearances
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
Why is it rude to say to someone, you guys are getting along, you're in love, you're having fun. Why do you want to get the government involved? What most people call love today was something that was invented in the 50s to sell shampoo. All three of you have a prenup. The government wrote it. You think that's a good idea?
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
How many other times? Like when was the camera not rolling in the last?
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
So perpetrators of domestic violence are, in my experience, like they're charming. Like how else would they get victims? Like the way you, you know, there are people that are great at love bombing. They're great at like convincing a person that, oh my God, I would never hurt you. I care so much about you. And then when something happens, doing the whole, like, I'm so sorry that that happens.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
You know, I love you so much. It'll never happen again.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
Oh, yeah. I know what you're talking about.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
That was a great portrayal of what they're like. What they actually are like. Yeah, good looking, charming, successful.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
Because a lot of that adjustment personality disorder, that sociopath behavior, that ability to sort of blend into your circumstances, A, it makes people very effective in their professional lives. because they can just go into whatever setting and be whoever they need to be in that setting.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
But in their home life, it turns into something that, you know, that's chaos when you have to deal with those DV cases.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
I'm going to be like this now.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
But I was like, you know, like, I'm sorry you live in a democracy. Like, we have a system. Everyone's entitled to have counsel. And by the way, it's not like fucked up people come in and at the console go, listen, I'm a straight piece of shit.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
I just need you to help me get out of it. It's not how it works. They come in and they're like, listen, she's crazy. She attacks me. And once I had like push her off me and yeah, she hit against the wall, but now she's going to falsely accuse me of domestic violence. And you sit there and you're kind of, and sometimes I'm in court when I'm, you know, sitting in my clients next to me.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
And I realized like, Oh shit, I've got the villain. Okay. All right. Like that was not great. You know, because it's not surprising. Like when people tell you the story of their life, they're usually the fucking hero of the story. Like rarely do they come in and go, listen, I'm all fucked up.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
It's one of the few things that, like, stand-ups, I think, do very well. Yeah, we're fucked up.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
Most people come in and just go, like, oh, listen, I'm wonderful, I'm great. And then you sort of learn progressively and you start to look at their text messages. And also, dude, there's, like, human growth, too. Like, who you were 10 years ago and who you are now. I had a client once who was a custody case about, like, a 10-year-old.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
Yes. So bizarre. I can't actually stand still anywhere in New York City without someone coming up going, you're that divorce lawyer, you know? The problem is when you do, like if you're going to be known for a viral clip, don't be wearing the same outfit you wear every fucking day. Because there's no way to camera. It's like your mustache.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
And when the woman was pregnant, when the mother was pregnant, so 11 years earlier, he had sent her all these text messages saying, because they'd been dating for like two months, like, you need to get an abortion. I don't want this baby. If you have this baby, I want nothing to do with it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And of course, he'd been for 10 years a phenomenal father, loves his.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
And the other side, in our exchange of discovery, you have to like, you know, share all your ammunition in advance because it's not supposed to be trial by surprise. They sent me these text messages.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
So anything you're going to put in like photographs, audio recordings, video, you have to exchange it in advance. That's called discovery? It's called discovery. Yeah. And it's a process where it's meant so that everyone has the opportunity to like review something, make sure it's authentic, have it reviewed by experts if they need to. Have a rebuttal.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
Prepare their case as best they can. You're not allowed to like trial by surprise. Did you order the code red. It doesn't really work that way. Like what you have to do is you have to exchange the stuff. So they'd sent these text messages and my attitude was, okay, we got to get in front of this. Like we got to like Eminem eight mile final rap battle.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
Like I got to go in and like cover this and be like, now tell these people something they don't know about him. You know, like I got to do something with it. So that's exactly what I did. I put them on the stand and I said, you know, you see these text messages. you know, did you send these texts? He said, yeah. And I said, is that how you felt at the time? And he was like, yeah.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
And I was like, how do you feel when you read those text messages now? And this guy legitimately started crying on the witness stand. And he was like, I'm so, he's like, I'm so mad at myself. He's like, and I'm so horrified. And I'm so, like, if she'd listened to me, I wouldn't have my son. But I know I was, like, just stupid and scared.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
And I'm watching opposing counsel just crossing out whole pages of that cross-examination. Because we got in front of it, you know? But that is, like, what happened.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
Well, and that's why, you know, when people say like representing good people and bad, like if only we could just put people in boxes of good people and bad people and just separate them. But like, you know, the line of good and evil runs right through the human heart.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
So I think at the end of the day, what you have to say, like if I judge your husband being a husband, your ability to be a husband by your best moment as a husband, you're a phenomenal husband. If I look at the worst moment you've ever had as a husband, that's the totality of you.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
If you shave that shit, you can probably get away with it for a few days. You can blend right in. Maybe that's what I'm planning. Without that, that's what you got to do.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
A hundred percent. The best of us absolutely do that. You live and die by reputation in this business. And if you're the kind of person that just exacerbates conflict, you don't last long in this.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
Yeah, and your client leaves with a really bad taste in their mouth because they see that you're just amplifying. Like, my job very often is to protect people from the part of themselves that's feeling brokenhearted and vindictive. Oh, so vindictive. Like, people come in and they're like, I caught him fucking his secretary. I want to rip his nuts off. I hate, like, I want to kill him.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
And my job is to go, look, I... You have every right to feel the way that you feel. But let's focus on the issues right now. Like, you're going to have grandkids with this person someday. You're stuck with him. You're going to see him for the rest of your life, no matter what. Like, I have an ex-wife. Trust me, I got to sit next to her at graduations. I got to sit next to her.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
Like, it's what you do. So you have to learn how to interact with this person. And you try to say to them, look, most people, the good news is most people love their kids more than they hate their ex.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
Like most people's love for their children is the most powerful thing they have. I mean, I know we've got, you know, we've got two relatively new fathers here, you know? So, I mean, the truth is that that is a powerful emotion that very often will make you put down a lot of other stuff.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
And so it really turns into something where my, our job is to try to bring out the angels of people's better nature. So I always tell clients like in a, in a negotiating table, in a courtroom, um, I'm a weapon. My job is to just go at a person and attack and do that. But before you get there... When the door is closed, it's me and Michael.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
My whole thing is, look, I'd rather you pay her than pay me. Like, stand down. Like, let's not do this. Put your kids through college, not mine. Like, let's figure out how to do this the right way. If I get... I get a sense when I do a consult with somebody that they have any chance that they could go to a mediator instead of using lawyers and they could sit, I'll send them right to a mediator.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
I probably send two, three cases a week to mediators.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
Yeah. Well, there's a lot of paths up the mountain, but the ideal process is two people sit down and they map out what do you want to do with the kids? What's going to make sense? Like, well, you work this night, I work this night, so you'll have the kids this night or that night. Ideally, people could sit down at the kitchen table with a piece of paper and just map it out.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
But second best is you go to a mediator. That's a person who's usually an attorney or an accountant who's trained, who knows what issues to talk about. And they walk through it with you and they'll say, all right, here's the things we have to decide. And they don't represent either person. They represent both people in a sense.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
The next step from that is you get two attorneys that work collaboratively, that just don't come at each other, don't try to vilify either side and just try to work, you know, come up with identifying assets, valuing them and how to divide them, figuring out what's going on and just doing it that way.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
Man, that's a high... They had a bad breakup.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
The thing I've got very good at over the course of 25 years is the warfare part of it, like the courtroom. So the people that come to me now tend to be people that have that kind of complex case. And they need someone who knows how to do that particular set of skills. which is why I have all of these amusing anecdotes of, like, chaos.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
But the truth is, like, the majority of divorce lawyers, it's really just about a negotiation. It's about trying to sort of, you know, work with people in a way that doesn't amp up the conflict.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
Yeah. You know, it's... That's a deep cut New York reference.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
But, you know, the outliers... Like very few people can just like hold hands, sing Kumbaya and like write it down and solve it. Very few people go to war. But you hear about the war because, hey, it's way more fucking interesting. I don't get invited to a lot of parties, but if I'm at a cocktail party and someone says, what are you doing?
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
So I'm a divorce lawyer and they're going to go, oh my God, you must have stories. And if I said, I do, there was this couple and they were married and then they slowly grew apart from each other. So they decided how they would like amicably resolve their differences financially and they shared their time with the children.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
worst fucking story like they want to hear the like no and then he took the chainsaw and he cut the car in half yeah and then he said pick which half you want bitch you know like that story by the way no yeah yeah what is your let's go there what is your craziest divorce that you well i mean the guy and the lady over and stabbed her 16 times yeah fun crazy yeah Fun crazy?
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
Just absolute insanity.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
Yeah, I mean, well, I've had ones where like there's a lot of cash involved. So I had one where they, over the years, guy was a dentist and he took a lot of cash. And what he used to do is he used to wad it up in like these round things and then fill tennis balls. ball cans with cash. And then they had a jacuzzi in the backyard and he lined the jacuzzi thing with these tennis ball cans.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
So there was like $800,000 of cash in the lining of the jacuzzi. And I actually had to bring in an expert to testify to the size of the jacuzzi and the size of how much could be held in the tennis cans to ascertain what the value of the money that he had then removed from the jacuzzi was.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
Took it all out. And he was like, what money? I don't know what you're talking about. Wow. So that kind of stuff is like always an interesting, bizarre puzzle. But yeah, I mean, people are constantly cutting shit in half. I mean, the ones that shock me are the people who come in and they've... And by the way, like... Apple, like Apple technology is responsible for more divorces than they have.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's a real discovery right there. Sorry, shots fired, Steve Jobs. I'm sorry, Tim Cook's gonna like, my iPhone's gonna stop working now. Love your products. Don't do that to me, man. But the truth is like there's, the whole integration of the different devices. Yeah.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
Like a lot of people don't realize like your fucking text messages are coming up on the iPad that your kid's playing with. Oh, wow. And then your wife, Like you're upstairs texting with the girlfriend about like, it was so great last night, you know? And then the kid is like, bing, bing, bing. And mom comes over like, what's going on? And they're like, I don't know, the cartoon stopped.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
And mom's like, what is this? And all of a sudden there's naked pictures of the girlfriend and she's reading in real time. And this happens like once a week, I get one of those.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
You ever walk into the DMV and go, these people should be in charge of everything.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
Yeah, I ask myself that question a lot.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
Because sometimes people are so brazen. That it's just like you're kind of- That you kind of go, yeah, like I want to pause.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
Yeah, I mean, you know, subconsciously I think so.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
They had the most brutal breakup, like epic level breakup. I heard about this, yes.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
Yeah, a lot of them feel- You know, Patrice O'Neill had a thing he used to say about- Want me over right now. He had a great thing about how he said, you know, cheating- If you think about it, as a man, a man is leaving his home to get some happiness without hurting your feelings. Go to fuck a girl behind a dumpster.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
To get a little bit of happiness without hurting your feelings.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
And I remember hearing that and going, but when you spend enough time with people who've cheated. Yeah. And that's legit. They're like, look, I love her. I love her. But we don't have that anymore. Like, we have this, like, we're running a daycare center together. And like, I love her. I like coming home to her. I like her mom. I like her brother. Like, we all get along.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
I like all the stuff we do. I like our home. I like our life. But like... I want to fuck sometimes. I had a friend who once said to me, the moment you know you're in a relationship is when you're in the middle of sex and you think, one of these days I've got to get laid. You know, and I think that most married men do not acknowledge that this is correct.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
Most married men, it's a bit. Most married men will go, oh yeah, okay. Like I kind of get that. Like the difference, because again, I think there is something really true about, you can't, some of the freaky shit you want to do in your head, blame Pornhub, you know, it's on everybody's heads.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
Which is like, you know, here you go. You finish this brutal hundreds of thousands of dollars in legal fees trying to get away from each other and then one of you dies. It's like, fuck. Fuck. That's pretty lucky for him. Yeah, without a guy. He was like, shit, I could have saved some counts.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
You're not going to do that with a person that then you'd be like, okay, so which of us is going to bathe the kids now? Like that's, you're not going to do that. So I think men, sometimes move away from that kind of a connection with their spouse. And then they say, look, I don't want to hurt her. I don't want to lose my family. I want to chase this shiny object.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
And by the way, like, I mean, how, look at how many half-naked women we are exposed to on a daily basis, thanks to Instagram and TikTok and everything else.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
I mean, I don't think that's bad advice. I mean, so insofar as they at some point enjoyed that. Yes. Like if they were if you started out that way and then you said she might secretly be like, why don't you have a child?
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
Cheating is one of those things. I mean, I joke that I got a PhD in cheating because you... you listen to people who've been cheated on, you listen to people who've done the cheating, but the people that I'm shocked by are the people that like, they know their spouse is cheating.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
Like they had one of those iMessage moments or they, like the cameras catch stuff, all the little nest cams, security cams, the baby cams, nanny cams, catch stuff. And they don't let the spouse know that they know it. And they're like three, four months in to like, I watched this person having sex with their mistress on the nanny cam. Oh, Jesus. And I'm still sitting across the table from them.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
And I find myself thinking like, how the fuck do you keep that? Yeah, you're the sociopath, actually.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
how are you not like just losing your shit on this person at all? You know, but people can do it. Then why do you think? Kids usually or? I think it's, I don't know. I think it's a combination of like, if they say it out loud, it's real. They're in denial. Yeah. Sometimes people come into my office and like, They have a very hard time.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
There's tissues on like every desk because people are just having to say it out loud, you know, having to like say out loud, like, yeah, this thing's broken, you know?
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
Surprising number of people kill their wife.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
Well, I got to tell you, we're in modern society. Like what I will tell you is a lot more people come back from cheating than you'll ever know.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
I've never had one where someone was killed. I did have a client who her husband or estranged husband, now ex-husband, ran her over three times and stabbed her 16 times. This is during the divorce? During the divorce. And she survived. Like, this guy couldn't even get that shit right. Like...
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
Thank you. Thank you.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
Thank you.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
Thank you.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
16 times run him over three times and she's alive to tell the tale and he's in fucking prison okay so she got 100% in the end she got 100% she also had to get like another kidney and some other things so she lost out yeah I mean with the amount of money yeah she did alright now what role do you play in that
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
Thank you.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
Thank you.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
Thank you.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
Thank you.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
A lot, yeah. I mean, I think, you know, when you're dealing with like high net worth and ultra high net worth divorces. What is high net worth? So high net worth is generally defined as a divorce where the estate is more than $10 million. Got it, got it. Ultra high net worth is over $100 million. Got it. So it's a different level in some ways because you're fighting over bigger numbers.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
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Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
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Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
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Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
It's harder to track the values. A lot of the stuff that people do for wealth preservation and tax avoidance, super, super rich people don't own anything. They have trusts that own LLCs that are beneficiaries of. They have great-grandchildren that haven't been born yet own everything, and they just borrow it from them. So that's why they pay less in taxes than a guy who works at Burger King.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
No, you know, I represented actually, I was one of the first people to represent a trans woman in a custody proceeding about 20 years ago. Were they divorcing themselves? No, they weren't. This was actually a really amazing story. This was like the most manly man I'd ever known. He was jacked. He was like a big dude. And I knew him because he'd actually done work on my house.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
He's an interior decorator, but it doesn't matter. It's a fixer-upper. He made some significant changes. He calls me up one day. He says, can I come in and talk to you? And I said, yeah, sure. And I knew he was married and he had two very young kids. So he comes in. I'm like, oh, shit, he's probably having marital problems. Comes into my office. I said, what's going on?
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
He says, look, I think we're splitting up. And then I said, oh, man, I'm sorry to hear it. I said, what's going on? And he goes, well, I... I decided I want to live my life as a woman. I was like, excuse me? This is 20 years ago. Like, this is not part of, like, the cadence, you know? This wasn't a thing. And this was not the dude you would think. Like, there was nothing feminine about this guy.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
And he was like, yeah, you know, I've always felt this way. And he did. Sure enough, he transitioned pretty quickly. And like many people who transition, initially, he looked like a guy wearing a wig. Like he looked like a dude who was, you know, he'd started hormones.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
And when we went to court, the judge actually issued a temporary decision saying that he was allowed to see his kids as long as he dressed like a man when he saw his kids. Wow. Now, if a judge did that now, they'd be thrown off the bench and possibly jailed for a hate crime. But back then, that was considered a perfectly acceptable resolution. Funny PS to that story, by the way.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
So it's unbelievable.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
Ten years later, I'm walking into the courthouse. And I'm standing there talking to one of my colleagues. And I look off to the far left. And I see a very attractive woman staring at me. And I'm thinking, like, you still got it, Sexton. Look at this. You know, it's the tie. And she's just smiling at me. So I'm like, do I know her? This is weird. So I finish this conversation.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
I kind of do the peacocking thing where I'm like, all right, man, catch you later. And I'm like, I'm going to walk past her. So I walk up. Very cute. I said, uh. Hey, how you doing? And she goes, good, how you doing? I go, good. She goes, you don't remember me. And I said, I'm sorry, I don't. I would think I would. And she goes, it's me, Amy. And I was like, Amy? And she goes, Andy?
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
I went, holy shit. It was that person. It was that person with 10 years of hormones and a bunch of other things.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
I guess you could pay capital gains too. But not if you do it the right way. So what happens is these people pay hundreds of thousands of dollars to accountants and tax attorneys to make sure they don't have to pay taxes. But they don't anticipate that when they get divorced, this is just going to blow up in your face. Wait, why? Why is it?
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
You can still get behind.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
I was given a motorcycle once. I had a client who said, you know, he used to like fix up bikes and I used to ride at the time and he said, you know, I'm going to pay you. I just got to sell this bike that I just fixed up. And I was like, oh, what bike is it? And he showed me and I was like, I'll just take the bike. What about cash?
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
like just straight people try to pay me in cash all the time you say no i know i'll accept cash but i do tell them like there's rules about how we take cash and then we have to report it if it's over ten thousand dollars but oh i've had people who come in with like three hundred thousand dollars in cash and they're like can i just pay my bill with this and when you say to them yes but i have to then report to the bank where i got it and suddenly they're like no problem i'll bring you a check you know and instead okay so you're by the book when it comes to payment
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
You have to be as a lawyer. A lot of lawyers are Wild West with that shit.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
I'm in class here. I'm a cheap date. No, I feel like a lot of lawyers... What's interesting is if you read the disciplinary opinions for lawyers, it's really funny because they fuck up lawyers and disbar lawyers for financial stuff really fast. Almost like you read that they publish these decisions. It runs chills through all of us.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
What is your craziest divorce that you lost? I shouldn't say this in public, but I will. Her husband ran her over three times and stabbed her 16 times.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
But you'll read it and they're like, this lawyer had sex with three of his clients. He, you know, had a serious cocaine problem and he told three of his clients the cases were resolved when in fact they weren't, you know, suspended for two weeks from the practice. of law. And then they're like, this guy did not report $23 that he received in cash disbarred. And you're like, fuck!
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
Like, the money thing is the biggest thing. So lawyers who play it fast and loose with that stuff, like, you're not going to be around long. Have you ever hooked up with any clients? No. No. And I have to tell you... Have they thrown it at you?
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
You never circled back after you got the good divorce, got a pay, and I was like, yeah, we could spend his money together.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
Because it makes it so complicated to figure out where is the money? What is marital? What is outside the scope of the marital estate? What can the judge get their hands on? What can't they get their hands on? So it becomes a really, really tricky, messy thing.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
Because... I'm trying to figure out how to say this without offending any of my existing clients. The truth is that if you represent a woman in her divorce, you will never fucking want to date her. You see the worst of this person. That's a good lie. That's a good lie. He's a good lawyer. There's a rule in New York. There's a rule in New York.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
Matrimonial lawyers are not, we're the only lawyers that are not allowed to have sex with our clients. It's a rule. Like, if you do a real estate closure for someone, you can fuck them. But if you're a divorce lawyer, a domestic relations lawyer, you cannot have sex with your client for six months after the representation's concluded.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
No, we're saying do circle the block seven months in.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
Yeah! Timmy Moore! Whoever wrote that rule, whoever wrote that rule was not a divorce lawyer because you don't even want to fucking talk to these people, much less fuck them. Some of these women too, they have a hero thing they've put on you that is so unhealthy. It's the first time I've started to sweat all over.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
I mean, look, it'd probably be fantastic.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's not, you know, I'm not. Just in her house. She's got enough money to do better than me at that point. No, but she's really grateful. Yeah, I mean, look, they do. What I'll tell you is your female clients fall in love with you. They do. But it's not you that they're in love with. You're their hero in this situation. Of course.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
And so you have to have the presence of mind. It's like when you're a college professor. Yeah, of course. You got 20-something-year-old girls who are coming to your office hours and they're into you. Of course. There's a part of your brain that goes, oh my God, are you kidding me? This is fucking... But the truth is, they think you know shit you don't know.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
They think that you're this genius person. You're just a fucking person. Like, so I really don't, like, that's not, they're not in love with you. I think, like, 20 of them you fucked up.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
I mean, they pay their bill on time, which is nice.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
But you got it in your head, too. I mean, see, like in your head. there's, like, these super hot young women I'm representing who, like, now have $100 million and want to fuck me. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's really, like... You're not thinking about the money. It's mostly, like, women in, like, their 50s with, like, they all got that New York, you know, like, surprise cosmetic surgery look.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
And, like, this is not... Like, I could do better than that, I think.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
You know, I'm very blessed. I'm at the place in my career now where I have high net worth and ultra high net worth clients. And you can have a smaller number of clients who you give a lot more personalized attention to. Because anybody who's at like a certain level of net worth, they are used to being weighted on and they're used to their professionals. Like they've not romanticized a lawyer.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
You know? Somebody's second wife?
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
They should get a prenup. If there's a prenup. Oh, they lock them in. Yeah, they're smart enough to lock them in, I say to the three fucking guys who are married and don't have prenups.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
Should he get a prenup?
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
I mean, look, what I'll tell you is, I mean, first of all, I don't think anybody wants their marriage to continue forever. their spouse to stay in the marriage because they don't want to give up half their shit. That's like a bad incentive. But you want someone to stay married to you because they want to be married to you.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
They think you add value to their life, that they enjoy your company, that more often than not, they're glad they're with you, whatever. Any number of justifications. But to say, well, I'm with him because I don't want to have to give away half my shit.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
Yeah, we got it.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
I think the easiest prenup is the one that I would encourage most people to have, which is I call it the yours, mine, and ours. If it's in your name, asset or liability, you keep it. If it's in her name, asset or liability, she keeps it. If it's in joint names, you split it 50-50. That's it. Clean. Here's what I'll tell you. All three of you have a prenup. The government wrote it.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
The state legislature wrote your fucking prenup. And by the way, like, you think that's a good idea?
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
You ever walk into the DMV and go, these people should be in charge of everything. Like, they're great at it. This is really good. No, the reality is, is like the government is the worst fucking people to write your prenup.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
You've signed up for a rule set that you don't even know. I don't know. You bought a house, right? You bought a house. You had to sign a HUD one, a lead paint disclosure. You got all this fucking information about the loan. You got married. You didn't get a fucking pamphlet. You just did the most legally significant thing you're going to do in your whole life other than die.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
And you have no fucking clue what happened. Done. The first time. The first time. It's called big dick energy.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
Because my attitude is, look, all kidding aside, every marriage has a prenup. It's either one that's written by the government or it's written by the two people that like each other theoretically more than the other 8 billion other options, right? Right. So who is better to come up with a rule set than those two people? And that's all the prenup is.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
Like, they know lots of lawyers. So they look at lawyers like you'd look at, like, a plumber. Like, you know, there's a lot of people that do this. You work for me. And, you know, they're used to it. So you have to give them a certain level of attention. But unlike a plumber, like, you do get to yell at them.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
A prenup is just saying, look, there's going to come a time like if you get married, it's smart to say to your spouse when you're getting along still.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
We're going to get in a fight at some point. I promise. It's probably my fault. I'm going to say some dumb shit. I say dumb shit. It happens. Yeah. When we get in that fight. What should that look like? Do you need a minute? Should I give you some space? Like if I force you to talk about it, is it gonna turn into a whole thing? Or do we need to take care of this now?
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
Cause you don't wanna go to bed angry. Like I wanna know, cause the worst time to learn how to fight is when you're in a fucking fight. Like that's the worst time to learn how to do a fight. So that's all the prenup is. Prenup is saying, look, we're getting along right now. We have an abundance of goodwill between the two of us.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
if God forbid in the highly unlikely 56% the highly unlikely chance that we would get divorced, what would that look like? And by the way, there's a way to say it that I think has a tremendous amount of big dick energy, which is to say, you know what? You're my woman. I want you to feel safe. You can't feel loved unless you feel safe.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
And the way I want you to feel safe, the way I want you to feel safe is I want you to feel safe from everyone, including me. So what is it?
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
It's a conversation you got to have. Like, look, you know this as a married man. If you can't have difficult conversations with your spouse, don't get fucking married. Like, part of being married is having hard conversations, talking about tough stuff.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
But just to push back on that thought a little bit.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
what I would say to you is, okay, but there's gotta be a stop loss somewhere in there, right? Like there's gotta be some sense of like, what is that obligation? Because look, at the end of the day, we all owe each other things when we make decisions like this, right? Like in some ways, in some ways, You wouldn't have the success you have if it wasn't for your wife. Absolutely. She supported you.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
Sure. Okay, absolutely. Your wife wouldn't be the person she is if it wasn't for her mother. Sure. So what do you owe her mother? How much? I think at least half. Okay. Her mother wouldn't be the person she was if it wasn't for her mother.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
Look, I think fundamentally... Yeah, they need half of her.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
You know, I just watched your special, you know, and I got a huge kick out, especially as a divorce lawyer, the shit we laugh at. But when you said the thing about, you know, like... We made a baby. We made a baby and you're like, oh, just like we made this money. Like it's our money. Like, okay, look, at the end of the day, we know you earn more than her, right?
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
Okay, so why do we have to be afraid to say that out loud? Like marriage is an economy. That's not a dirty word. An economy is we're exchanging value. We're giving and receiving. And an economy does not require that everyone gives and receives the exact same fucking thing. You can say like Steve Jobs, Steve Wozniak.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
Without Steve Wozniak, Steve Jobs would have a lot of cool ideas he couldn't do shit with. And if it wasn't for Steve Jobs, Steve Wozniak would be a dude in his garage making shit but have no vision. So together they brought something to fruition. Same thing.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
for reasons that I think we could fix as a culture. And that is that why can't we be on, like, I'm a fan of honesty. I'm a fan of just being, just say a quiet part out loud. Like you give me like, cause here's the problem. Here's the problem with modern marriage from a man's perspective, as far as I'm concerned. Most of the marriages I know, okay, the man provides financially, he protects, right?
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
He, you know, he's also there to be part of the family dynamic, taking care of kids, doing the things that he can do. What does the woman bring? She brings love, affection, a little bit of sweetness at the end of the day, you know, sex. She brings, you know, taking care of kids.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
OK, if you get divorced, every single thing on that side of the man equation, he can be compelled to do by the power of the state. And if he fails to do it, they can put him in jail. nothing on that other side, the female side, is enforceable at law. The court cannot order her to be nice to you, to fuck you, to be a wonderful mother to your children. She can't. They can't force that.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
So when you have a contract where only one side of it is enforceable with the power of the state and the other side is not, my attitude is why don't we then just have an honest conversation about what we could both be afraid of and what value we want to attribute. But the court can't
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
force you to protect your wife and the court can't force you to make economically they can force you to they can force you to protect somebody you can tell like i've had i've had you know cases where the court says okay um this person needs a security detail if it's a celebrity they say these kids are going to need security for when they go to school things like the average person like can the court say you have to work to a dad well what the courts say is lincoln freed the slaves like if you're a you know if you're a uh uh if you're any a
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
Yeah, I mean, the people you should never lie to are your doctor and your lawyer. Because like everything you tell us, every single thing you tell us is protected by privilege. And there's absolutely our only jobs to protect you.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
You notice I didn't look old. I appreciate that.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
So what the courts say is like, if you're a brain surgeon who now I'm getting divorced, I decided I want to be a fucking yoga teacher. The court goes, look, Lincoln freed the slaves. We can't make you be a brain surgeon. You're just going to be a brain. You're going to be a yoga teacher who has the financial obligations of a brain surgeon. So they impute an income to you.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
And they'll say, whatever you do for a living, it's fine. We can't force you to work, but we can give you financial obligations commensurate with your earning capacity, even if you're not earning at that capacity, which is actually really fucked up sometimes. Like I had a client once who was an air traffic controller.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
And if you know anything about air traffic controllers, like you can have a high school education, be an air traffic controller, make like three, four hundred grand a year. Wow. You can do really, really well. Well, this guy, his mother passed away. He was very close with her. He had a lot of anxiety and a lot of depression from it.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
And he had to go on on medication, psychiatric medication to like sort of deal with it. You're not allowed to be on benzodiazepines or certain psychiatric medications while you're in air traffic control. So he was terminated from his position. The next best job this guy could get, he made about 50 grand a year. But the court was like, no, no, no. You're earning capacity is $350,000 a year.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
That's what you made. And we were like, judge, what job can this guy get where he's going to make that amount of money? So it can sometimes, this is how guys end up in jail for not paying.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
So what do you do? he suffered basically yeah I mean he had a very unfair child support award placed against him he ended up in jail a couple of times it was a really because he was like selling drugs or something to make them no he just was not he didn't pay his support it's illegal to not pay child support you can be put in jail
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
We did after a certain amount of time, and then it was granted. The judge sort of didn't buy that this was not done intentionally. We joke in our industry that, you know, we call it sudden income deficiency syndrome, that it hits like 9 out of 10 divorcing men. Like, guys are doing really great, and then all of a sudden they're getting divorced, and they're like, but this year's going to be bad.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
I'm not going to do well this year.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
They're like, yeah, but we're having a bad year. Yeah. It happens a lot that judges tend to look at people and go, you know, something tells me that if you're saying you're suddenly not doing well financially and it happens to be when you're getting divorced, there might be, you know, it's not a coincidence.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
It depends on how bold the judge is. I mean, what I'll tell you is a big, I'll give you some free legal advice. If you ever have a child support obligation against you, which I hope you never do, and you have to pay it and you don't have the money to pay it. Like if you're supposed to give her $2,000 a month and you don't have $2,000, don't give her $1,000. Give her $1,226.37.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
I literally say that. I mean, I don't pull any punches on it. But what I usually will say to them just to kind of take it to a place that they can understand is I'll say, look, at the beginning of this relationship, I want you to understand, I represent people who have been victims of domestic violence. I represent perpetrators of domestic violence.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
Because then when we get in front of the judge, we can say, judge, I had $1,000. I borrowed $200 from my cousin. I found $32 under the mats of my car. This is everything I have. Because what people do is if you gave $1,000, why didn't you give $1,001? If you gave $1,500, like a round number, it just looks like you're full of shit.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
But yeah, I mean, look, courts don't always, again, because judges are human. There are some judges, they will put you right the fuck in.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
in jail i've had clients let off in orange you know where the judge says look you got a week to pay this child support and if you don't bring a toothbrush when you come back to court because i'm putting you away and they'll put some they'll lock guys up they have what's called weekend jail where on friday after work you check in and you stay in jail until monday morning and then monday worked so you can work and pay your child support yeah why uh why does alimony exist
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
You ever want to take a feminism out of a woman?
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
So alimony or spousal support or spousal maintenance, every state calls it something different, is a payment that's made from one former spouse to another. And it's intended to either rehabilitate their earning capacity so that they can kind of get on their feet or it's to roughly approximate the marital lifestyle for a certain period of time.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
So it's very rarely what we call non-durational, meaning like you broke it, you bought it forever, you owe her the marital lifestyle. There was a time where that was the way it was done, but it hasn't been that way for many, many years now.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
And there's a wide disparity in your incomes.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
Or some approximation of it for some period of time. Got it. So the steel man argument for it is the following. There are economic decisions you make during your marriage and you make them as a couple, right? So it is very difficult for everybody to be Beyonce. Somebody's got to be Destiny's Child. You know, you can't all be the, you know, Lionel Richie. Somebody's got to be the comedians.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
I represent people who are, by any objective standard, amazing parents. And I represent people who just want to put the kids in the middle for leverage for child support purposes. And I am no one's moral compass. I'm a weapon. And a weapon in the hands of a hero, right, is going to protect people. And a weapon in the hands of the villain is going to cause chaos.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
So what you do is you say, okay, look, you're the star right now. I'm going to stand back. I'm going to take care of home. I'm going to do my thing. In the law, we call it diminished lifetime earning capacity. Which basically means if a woman takes her late 20s or her 30s off from the workforce, because that's when you have kids. You have kids in your 30s, kids in your 40s.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
Very hard for her to get back into the workforce. And when she gets back into the workforce, she's behind in the race. Like, if you join the New York City Marathon halfway through, you're not going to finish with everybody else, no matter how fucking fast you are.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
So in the law, we call that diminished lifetime earnings.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
It's lower, and it'll never catch up. Because by the time she reaches the age she would have been at 40, she's 60. So she's closer to retirement. So what you're doing is you're sort of saying, okay, we're going to compensate for that. That's the argument for it.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
So what's really interesting is without realizing it, you've actually just joined the legislative committee of the New York State Bar Association because a few years ago. Yeah. The domestic relations law was actually modified to reflect exactly that. OK, I think where they said what they call it is the the the income creating capacity of assets received in equitable distribution.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
When I started my career 25 years ago, that wasn't a factor. And then a lot of lawyers, myself included, were like, wait, she's getting $20 million. put it in treasuries at 5%. She's got an income stream. So the courts and the legislature caught up and now they say, yeah, if you're getting like, I just did a divorce where there was an $800 million marital estate.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
She actually had the audacity to ask for Alamo. The judge looked at it and went, listen, you're getting $400 million worth of assets. You're going to be all right. You know, we're not, that can kick off income if you want it.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
Let's just call that it. Russian women, in my experience professionally, they get ice cold. When you're married to a Russian woman, there's nothing she won't do for you. And when you're divorcing a Russian woman, there is nothing she won't do to you. Like she will your right up.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
That's where a lot of them came about. And then the law is very slow to change because the way that our law works is it's sort of a living thing that modifies as times and standards change.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
And by the way, to bring it back to where we started here, that's why I'm a fan of prenups.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
Because if you're a fair person and your soon-to-be spouse is a fair person, couldn't you have this conversation?
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
But the weapon is kind of neutral, right?
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
That's to me the best argument because here's the other problem. Is there another contract that you've ever heard of? that they can change the terms of the contract without even fucking telling you? That's interesting. Like, imagine if you bought or leased a car. Yeah, this is really interesting.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
And they said, oh, by the way, the state just decided we're going to change how the interest rate works and when you have to make the payments. And you're not allowed to go, oh, well then I'd like to opt out and return the car. And they go, oh, no, no, no, you can't do that, sorry. Like, so there's rules. There's a prenup that was written for all three of your marriages. By the government.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
I mean, obviously, a lot of my clients, I can't disclose who they are.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
That can be changed unilaterally by people other than you and your wife. and affect you forever. So to me, my attitude is, listen, you could do a prenup one way and then three years later do an addendum and modify it. You can make it a living document. It's just like you make your will. You make your will at one point. You make it again five years later. You change it. You change it frequently.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
And by the way, not an unfair concept.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
Oh, I've represented people who are, you know, by any objective metric are, you know, malignant narcissists. I mean, unfortunately, the traits that make people very successful, particularly in high finance, which is what New York is really like. My colleague Laura Wasser is in L.A. She represents like every celebrity you've ever seen. Yeah.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
I represent a lot of people in finance who could buy those celebrities 10 times over, but would walk past you on the street. You never knew who they were. Did you represent any current or former presidents? No, no presidents yet. Yeah, no presidents yet. They all seem to keep it together, right?
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
Clint and I got my fingers crossed. How do you come to us?
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
Thank you.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
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Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
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Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
Yeah. So so you have that thought. Like so. So first of all, yes, I'm I'm I'm a sensitive person. I don't think I could do this job well if I wasn't. Because to do this job well, it's just like, I think it's like being a comic. I think you have to have a sensitivity. You have to be able to read what's going on with this audience.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
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Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
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Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
Most wedding ceremonies is the gives away the bride. It's symbolic of things that most women would find terribly offensive. But because we put all these cultural things around it, it's like, oh, yes, buying a woman an engagement ring. Like how many women have you met that are so feminist that they go, I'm not accepting you giving me some expensive thing as a way of purchasing. Is it there?
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
Fuck that. You could be a Bella Abzug feminist and you would still be like, oh, yeah, no, I want a big fucking rock and it better not be lab made.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
Yeah.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
And there's no problem with that. Of course. But I don't then create a whole fiction as to why this is good for society.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
And you have to know what's working, what's not, and be able to shift, right? So it's the same exact thing. It's just my audience is a judge. And I'm really here, like our job's the same. We're here to manipulate people's emotional states.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
If it doesn't go well. What my attitude is, by the way, and if you want to buy into any of the antiquated gunk, you have every right to. But I think you and this person who you've picked out of eight groups billion other options. Yes. You're saying this is my person. Yeah. And who is more qualified than the two of you to agree on the rules?
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
To me, that is the point. Because that's a conversation worth having. Even if you don't end up doing a prenup. Having a conversation about, hey, what do we owe each other? What does this mean to you? What do you expect of me? Because I want to meet your expectations.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
I mean, don't you want to know that before you marry this fucking guy?
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
Your job is to manipulate people. You want them to laugh, relax, and enjoy. I want the other side to be scared. I want my client to feel safe. I want the judge to like my client and hate the other side. So I'm here just manipulating everybody's emotional state. And to do that well, I have to be very open, receptive, empathetic, and sensitive. The downside of that is, yeah, I'm sensitive.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
Or if she says to you, well, you know, if you earn less than X number of dollars, well, I'd like to have that conversation before we've signed up for that contract.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
Saying I do. isn't saying I can, it's saying I'll try. At best. At best. You know, like at best, what you say when you say I do is you're saying I'm making you a promise. And if you're not fucking three, you know people break promises, right? So really what you're saying when you make a promise is I'm going to really try. I'm going to try my best. I'm going to try my best.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
I'm going to try my best to love you. I'm going to try my best to take everything that you bring to this relationship and see it in good faith. And I'm not going to attribute negative intentions. I'm going to cheer for you. And you're going to cheer for me. And I'm going to see your blind spots. And when I have to call you out, I'm going to do it with love.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
And I'm going to try to say to you, babe, I think this is going to hurt you long term, what you're doing right now. Yeah. What is more beautiful than that? Who would disagree with that? But again, like why not call those terms out in advance and have that conversation?
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
And the government, by the way, is changing it, but they're changing it the way the government changes things, which is way late in the game. So it's like they don't catch up. Like there's a reason why the IRS's lawyers and the tax lawyers that get paid millions of dollars, the tax lawyers that get paid millions of dollars are always four steps ahead of these fucking guys.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
Like the top of the class goes to work for these firms. Why? Because they have every incentive to do that. So for me saying, you know what? I trust the government so much. That I know they'll change the law to protect me. That's the most naive thing I've ever heard a human being say.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
And this is the mistake. People come into this and they think prenups were designed for wealthy people only, right? And by the way, there's a reason why. Because look, there's times where a person comes to the marriage, they have a tremendous amount of assets.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
And they say, look, I've got a ton of money. You know, if in an alternate universe, you are you now at your level of success. Yes. And you meet a lovely young woman and you say, you know what? Let's get it. Let's do this thing. Yeah. If you get divorced in three months, you should get half of everything. That's fucking crazy.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
Well, and there's still very complicated things, which is how guys like me make a lot of money. Because what happens is we have what's called transmutation, which is if you had a separate property asset, meaning something you owned before the marriage- And then you get married and you mix an asset that you earned during the marriage or income earned during the marriage with your premarital money.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
Yes. You turn that the separate into marital. So we have what's called the marital presumption, which is basically so like think of it. I always tell clients, think about it like, you know, a your separate property. Premarital money is like a bowl of water. And marital money is like a drop of red dye. You drop that in. You can't take it back out. The whole thing's pink.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
I'm empathetic. I feel a lot of it. I represent the client, but I also represent the system. And I don't always believe in the client, but I believe in the system.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
And you know I get paid a lot of money per hour to make that argument.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
And then the other lawyer gets paid a bunch of money by the hour to say, no, no, no, there was no donative intent, there was no consideration. So the reality is, is why are we making money on this? Why couldn't the two of you in advance just sit down and say, hey, you know what? Let's put aside some, like, let's decide the rule set. If we put it in your name, it's this.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
If we put it in joint sets, we'll split it 50-50. If we use premarital money, we'll do it this way. Have that fucking conversation.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
And by the way, people that don't have as much are the ones who really have to worry about how do we divide it and protect it. Because if you got hundreds of millions of dollars- Give her 20 million. Right. But if you're in a situation where like most people, you're kind of basically getting by, well, now you're gonna have two electric bills and two cable bills and two everything.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
And I just don't think it makes it unromantic. Like, we all know life ends. Does that mean life's not, like, did you ever go like, well, I'm going to die someday? so I might as well just die now. No, the beauty is going through the press. You're watching a movie and someone says, oh, the movie's gonna end. You don't go, well, fuck it, I'm not even gonna watch it.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
I was talking about it on Mark's show some time ago when I represented a guy who was a pimp. Like literally a pimp. That was his job. Like he actually was, you know, I mean, he had other he's in federal prison now for guns, but he he was an atrocious human being. He was an abuser. He was.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
No, the beauty is to watch the movie and know that this is a temporary thing. Look, every marriage ends. It ends in death or in divorce. Your marriage will end, I promise. I hope so. That's a weird thing to say to a person. I hope your marriage ends in death. But I do. I hope that's how your marriage ends. Because the only two options is it's gonna end in death or divorce.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
So you have life insurance. No one ever would look at you and go, you're so morbid with that life insurance. Like, why would you think you have to do that? I'm protecting these people that I love. Like, I know something's good. Okay, so what is wrong with two people? When I was early in my career, I decided, I thought, you know what? They had these wedding fairs.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
Have you ever seen, I don't know if any of you were forced to do, you chose well if you didn't have to do this.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
You did well with the women in your lives.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
This is like a whole Indian thing. You ever want to see sad men? about that thing. Like, they're just like, hold, you know, it's like if you took her to the car show. Like, she's just like, what the fuck are we doing here? So, you know, but these things, they have photographers, the cake people, the invitations, the little sweats, all of the, the whole wedding industrial complex.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
these fucking people they're making they're monsters they're full-on monsters all right because they convince her it's like you're you're you're actually gonna have a wedding and not give away scented candles you don't care about your family i guess you don't have to have the scented candles but i went and i said hey listen um can i get a table Can I have a table? Like you pay like 10 grand.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
Can I have a table? Just for pre-nups. Just for pre-nups. I said, and I promise I'll do it very respectfully and say, hey, congratulations on your engagement. Let's talk about pre-nups. They wouldn't take my fucking money. They wouldn't let me in the door because, and why? Because there's a fucking fantasy they're selling people and don't let reality get into the fantasy. And see for me,
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
I think I'm actually a true romantic because I like reality. And my attitude is I like somebody who looks at the situation and goes, you know what? Whether we win, whether we lose, let's play this fucking game. Let's do this thing.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
Let's shoot for it. This is a game we can't win. We're either going to die and lose each other or we're going to divorce and lose each other. But fuck. Fuck it. I want to take this ride.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
And I was up against an adversary who was an unskilled attorney and very like it was all this woman could afford. And I absolutely ran her over and we walked out of court. And the guy pat me on the back and he said, man, one good lawyer's worth 20 stick-up men. And I just remember thinking, like, I want to go home and just take a shower right now because that just feels dirty. That's crazy.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
25 years I've been doing prenups, and I always end up having a good relationship with the person at the end of the transaction. Because unlike a divorce, it's not protracted. It's relatively inexpensive. Yeah. I've probably only had to do three divorces, four divorces of people I didn't prenup.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
You'll never know. And here's why. A prenup's not filed anywhere. Like I have celebrity clients who I did their prenup. That'd be really impressive. And they are doing interviews saying, oh, we don't have a prenup. And I'm like, yeah, you fucking do. It's in my safe. I wrote it. But they tell people because why? It's one of those things. Everything I need. So here's the cake.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
Oh, here's this ticket out flowers. No one's ever like, here's the signing the pre.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
You know, it's all social stigma. And there's no reason we have to normalize prenups. We have to democratize prenups. We have to be like, by the way, prenups are the, they're, they are, they are so unbelievably easy for attorneys to draft. Like, no one is making a bunch of money on prenups. Like, we make our money on litigation. We make money on the way out, not on the way in.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
So the truth is, like, there is no reason why it has to be reserved for the wealthy. This is something that can be democratized. There can be an access to justice. People could go, even with AI technology that's out there now. Listen, I've been involved in a startup called Trusted Prenup. And our thing is going to be, we are going to democratize prenups.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
It's coming soon because AI has made it possible now for there to be like a tree menu where people go in and go, okay, what do we want to do with Alamo? Okay, what do we want to do when it comes to our estates? What do we want to do? And you can just pick and put it together, spit that document out. And by the way, it's not filed anywhere. You don't have to tell anybody that you did it.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
It can just be a discussion between you and this partner that you tell the most intimate things to, you have the most intimate experiences with. Why can't you have honest conversations about that?
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
Who is this? Is that last week? Did you have different haircuts? You're like, no, that was a rerun, but it was a good one.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
I texted Mark this morning. And I said, I was like, you got to tell your wife that you're spending the day with a divorce lawyer. You'll definitely get something this morning.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
Well, what I'll say is I think it's irresponsible to marry without a prenup. I'm not again. Listen, if you people want to do dumb shit like you want to do some dumb shit, do some dumb shit.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
Well, what's even more amazing about marriage, if you want to take the car analogy a little bit further, like, all right, so you get married in your 20s or your 30s, right? All right, when you're 20 years old, if I said to you, you can have any car in the world, what car do you want? You'd be like Ferrari, Lamborghini, whatever, Aston Martin, anything. It might be a muscle car, okay? Yeah.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
You're and then after you bought it, I said, by the way, it's the only car you're ever going to have your whole fucking life. You'd be like, wait, what? Because I don't want to be 80 getting out of a Ferrari. Like I'm good. And if I have kids, where am I going to put the car seat? Marriage is you are choosing this person.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
And theoretically, you are saying in your 20s or 30s, you are saying this person for the rest of my life. Now, again, at best. It's like those trees that grow next to each other and then become entwined. And it's like, they grow together and they, they become something different, but they become something different together.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
I think you have to. And move on. I think you have to because, look, what I'll tell you is the truth has a way of coming out, sometimes despite my best efforts.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
So like, that's amazing when it's done the right way, but, but to suggest that like, Oh, it'll never change. We're always going to be like we were when we fell in love. That's foolish.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
I've learned a lot by being a divorce lawyer about what keeps people together. What I've learned, I would say more than anything else is just pay attention. People get divorced the same way they go bankrupt, very slowly and then all at once.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
I got really self-conscious. I know regretting the marriage face and you don't have to.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
Yeah, well, that's what ended up happening with that guy, is he ended up in federal prison. I mean, I think the truth has a way of coming out. I have to tell my clients that sometimes. Like, look, I can throw up a lot of smoke and mirrors, but shit comes out. Like, the truth comes out.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
The thought that someone can change the terms and conditions and you can't opt out.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
Well, and that's the funny thing because like, you know, a lot of like... You know, I did an interview with Matt Walsh a bunch of months ago on The Daily Wire, and he was all about, like, no-fault divorce, no-fault divorce is the worst. What does that mean? So New York is a no-fault state. Most states are now no-fault states, which means you don't have to prove why you're getting divorced.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
You don't have to have fault. It used to be you had to show adultery, you had to show incurable mental illness, you had to call abandonment. So it was great for lawyers because we had to, like, before we even got into the real fight, we had to get into a fight of, are you allowed to get divorced? So the states eventually said, look, this is stupid.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
If one person in the marriage has decided the marriage is over, guess what? The marriage is over. So now we're no fault. Well, a lot of people on the far right, Matt Walsh, Ben Shapiro, it was like their big flavor of the moment for a little while was they were saying no fault divorce is the worst thing in the whole wide world.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
Well, like it's kind of like saying, you know, we got to get rid of all these emergency rooms because like everybody who's in there has broken bones. So people must be breaking bones so they can go to the emergency room. Like that's fucking ridiculous. Like, no, they didn't break it. Like this is just there to solve the problem. They have to pretend to care about it.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
What I said to Matt is, look, why wouldn't we have, why would you have barriers to exit? Why don't you have barriers to entry? Like, why don't you have, you have to take a class or you have to sit down with a person who went through an ugly divorce or like Catholics, they have the pre-cana where you got to sit down and you talk to couples who've been married for 30, 40 years.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
And the guy says, look, you're going to have to say, I'm sorry for some shit. You're not sorry. That's part of being married. And you go, all right, cool. I can live with that. Like have, have some barriers to entry. Like you, you, if you, I adopted a dog from ACC in New York city, you know how much fucking paperwork I had to fill out. They wanted to know my third grade English teacher.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
name like they wanted to know like did mrs soible is she think you'd be good but she didn't see me in 40 years you need to have a you want a piss test like i'm adopting a dog you were gonna kill in two days like just give me the fucking dog get married 50 bucks you can pay all this in vegas and you're married all right guys let's take a break for a second i genuinely want to tell you guys about the best protein bar on the planet okay i i mean this sincerely this right here the david bar okay
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
It's called potentially adverse interests.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
Yeah, yeah. And I can't say, well, because here's the thing, what the lawyer is saying, and they don't say it in artful ways, but what lawyers are saying in that situation is you have potentially adverse interests. More for you is less for her, less for you is more for her, right? But see, again, this is all stuff that technology has made easier.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
So people come to me and they go, look, my fiance and I want to talk to you about a prenup. I go, look, I'm not allowed to counsel you both, but here's what we can do. Let's do it via Zoom, record the entire thing. She will hear everything. You can play it for whoever you want, including your fiance.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
I can't give her legal advice, but I can give you legal advice and you can play for her every word I say to you so that she doesn't feel intimidated. But see, this is the reality is we can do it, solve for the actual problem. So what you're saying is you're absolutely right.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
We're taking an adversarial system and you're hiring lawyers whose job theoretically is to protect their individual client at the expense of the other, which by the way, one of the things I'm least proud of my colleagues for is we're so used to dealing with warring tribes in a divorce that then when we're doing a prenup, We approach it the same way.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
So there should be a different approach. And there can be. We just have to rethink the way we do.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
Totally useful.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
But why can't you go to... It's a much easier sell. And by the way, I think what you said earlier is absolutely correct.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
It's an opportunity for people to have a really important discussion.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
There are lawyers who work collaboratively who'll say, let's all meet together. We each have a lawyer. There's people that work in mediation to mediate a prenup. There's a lot of ways.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
That feels amazing.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
There's so many ways to do it. But again, we're just used to doing it one way. We've handed it off to an adversarial system. And so to a person with a hammer, everything looks like a nail. Like to a person who argues for a living, everything looks like an invitation to have a fucking argument. You know, I get paid to be paranoid. Like my mother tells me she loves me. I ask for references. Me too.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
Like that's my job, because I see the worst in people all day long. That's heavy. You know, so what you have to do is you have to get to a place where you go, okay, look, this is a conversation. Like I guarantee when you and your wife did that estate planning, You probably had to have some conversations about like, hey, something happens. Like, who watches the kids?
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
Like, and what do we do about this?
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
But I tell you, I bet that that deepens the level of connection, intimacy the two of you have. And by the way, doing that estate planning, Like we are never more alive than when we're in the presence of death. Like when you stop and think about, holy shit, if I lost this person, like, what would that feel like? You want to hug that person 50 times more.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
I'll give you a great one. I'm a dog person. I love dogs. So I had a woman come in and she said to me, you know, described this situation of like coercive control, domestic violence she'd been in for ages. And this guy was controlling, abusive in the worst worst possible ways, like insidious ways, but also was an incredibly charming narcissist. So like no one would ever suspect.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
So to me, like early on in a relationship, when you're still madly in love with each other and you're about to sign up for this, you know, I'm marrying you, it's going to be you, you, and only you. That's the time to say, you know what? If we ever hurt each other, if we ever what what do we owe each other? How do we handle that? Like, how do I love you? How do I make you feel safe?
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
That's a great time to have that conversation.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
There's mediators. You can go to an attorney and say to the attorney, look, I just want to have an educational conversation about this. I don't want you to draft a prenup necessarily. Again, I think you're going to see in the coming years, I intend to be part of it, you're going to see more of the democratization of prenups.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
Because I think the younger generation, like I'm older than all of you, and I have to tell you, one of the things, like I look at my 20-something-year-old sons, and I have a lot of hope for the future because I think that You're looking at a situation and going, OK, but why do we do it that way? Like, why do we do it that we don't have to do it that way?
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
And it's OK for people to say, hey, you know what? We can do it however we want to do it.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
But I'll tell you something. Look, your career has been characterized by being somewhat iconoclastic. Like, I've been a fan since the 441 days.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
Thank you. And I'm sure when you said, I'm going to put this out myself. Yeah. Some people who genuinely care about you and genuinely wanted to see you succeed said, dude, don't do it that way. You'll never make a dime. And by the way, they were not trying to mislead you. They weren't trying to hurt you. It's not that they didn't trust you. They were looking at it and going,
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
Dude, I don't want to see it go wrong for you. Okay, so people can, in very good faith, give very fucking bad advice, right? Because if that's the right way to do it, they did it fucking wrong. Oh, it reflects their own decision. They did it wrong, right? Because if you go, no, no, I'm going to do it this way, and you knock it out of the park like you did, they go, well, what the fuck was I doing?
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
Why did I do it this other way? And the answer is because it was peer pressure from dead people.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
And yet, and I don't mean to use you as an example, I'm not picking on you. Please. You had the intelligence to think of this and the balls to try it. Yeah. Okay?
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
And yet... when it comes to getting married. There was never the thought of like, oh, you know, why am I gonna let the government impose a rule set? Why wouldn't we figure out a way to do it? Now, why? I don't blame you for that. I think it's just never been a conversation we have as a society.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
Right. And listen, I think there's a beauty to that. Like, I wish I knew no astronomy when the stars appear. Like, I think, you know, like, I liked it when I was like, look at the pretty lights in the sky. When you're like, oh, actually, that's something that flamed out a million years ago with lights just reaching. I'm like, oh, fuck.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
Like if you said to anybody, this guy was an abuser, they'd be like, him?
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
So I think there's something very beautiful about not knowing this stuff. But again, I am a fan. Like, I think the truth is actually even more beautiful. Yeah. Like, I think when two people say, I'm going to give you the ability to hurt me. Like, I love you enough. Because I have to tell you something. I think it's fucking insane to love anything. I really do. Like a dog, a kid.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
Like, you're going to lose it.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
Everything you love, you're going to lose someday. So to love something is to accept the inevitability that it's going to break your fucking heart someday. And yet we do it anyway because it's the best thing.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
So to me, that makes it more beautiful to say, you know what? If you break my fucking heart, it will have been worth it. It will have been worth it because we got to do this. Sold. Sold.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
And she told me her story. She said, I'm afraid nobody's going to believe me. He said to me, no one will ever believe you. You know, I'll make sure you're penniless. I'll do whatever I have to do to like crush you. And and I'm listening to this and I've handled a lot of domestic violence cases before. So I was like, OK, look, the system has a way of sorting these things out.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
Who, like, treats the... Those are a bunch of different questions you just threw off me. Yeah. I mean, what I'll say is, like, the Russians... Russians, there's, you know, Chekhov's plays are dark for a fucking reason. Like the winters are long. Like Russians come in sometimes to professional hit. Like they get cold.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
The husband to the wife you're saying or the wife to the husband? The wife more so even. Russian women are, we used to call them the red menace sometimes in the courthouse. Oh yeah, Russian women. Because like they're, I mean, God, it's really hard to say. I mean, you know, like the stereotypes, sometimes stereotypes are a real time saver. Let's just call that out.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
And anyone who's ever dated a Latina woman, they will burn your fucking house down and then ask who Maria was who called. And you're like, that's from work. She's like, well, you should have told me that. And you're like, before you burned the fucking house down? So that can be bad. Russian women, in my experience professionally, not personally, professionally, they...
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
They will, when you are now the enemy, when you have crossed that line, they get fucking ice cold. And there is nothing, when you're married to a Russian woman, there is nothing she won't do for you. And when you're divorcing a Russian woman, there is nothing she won't do to you. Like, she will fuck your shit right up.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
Oh, I mean, they'll surveil the guy. Like, they'll have people follow him. They'll blow him up to the IRS. I've had a couple of people blow him up to the IRS. Yeah. And they'll shoot first and ask questions later. Yeah. Like they'll they'll you know, they'll they'll call the IRS and go, by the way, I called the not I'm thinking about. So I can go. That's a terrible idea. Like, nope.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
Thank you.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
And let's talk about what we can prove and what we can't. And she said, you know, I have something. She said, we have a puppy. We have a six month old black lab puppy. And the ring camera of our doorbell caught him just beating the shit out of this six month old puppy. And I was like, and you have that footage? And she was like, yeah.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
Thank you. Thank you.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
And I was like, okay, like give me everything you have and I'll take a look. And I sat there that night and I watched this footage. And as a dog lover, like I was shaking. I mean, it was to listen to it, to hear it, like to watch this guy just beating this puppy. And the puppy like is a puppy, it's tails wagging. It's trying to like kind of get away from him.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
And like, it doesn't understand what's going on. And I just remember looking at it and thinking like, I'm gonna torture this fucking guy to death. And I called her the next day and I said, I'll take your case. And she was like, well, I'm worried I can't afford you. I'm like, I'll cut my hourly rate in half. I was like, I just want a piece of this fucking guy.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
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Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
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Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
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Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
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Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
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Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
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Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
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Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
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Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
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Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
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Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
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Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
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Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
or maybe you're the fucking problem yeah yeah and so i think it's worthwhile to have conversations when things start about how they end period what's the dumbest reason you've ever seen for a divorce just on a personal basis really the dumbest one stupid people we had a lot of like weird political divorces since 2016 no way wow oh yeah people that were like yay watches fox news i'm out
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
Like you watch his Newsmax, I'm gone. Like a lot of like, he voted for Trump.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
I had, I mean, I've always said the saddest one I ever had was this guy was in his like late eighties and he left his wife of like 50 or 60 years for a 50 something year old woman. that he was having an affair with. And what was saddest about it to me was not that this like 60 year marriage was ending. It was that, holy shit, I'm still gonna be led around by my dick when I'm in my 80s.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
Like I legit thought like, I'm not going to be chained to an idiot forever. Like I thought in my eighties, like a beautiful woman would walk by and I would be like, oh, a human being. Like I would just, and instead I'm like, oh my God, I'm going to be 86 and still want to fucking chase skirt. Like that's fucked. Like we're never going to be free.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
So that to me was like, yeah, people get, I mean, people get divorced for some crazy shit. What's the most petty thing you saw in a divorce? I once had a divorce that was, there was a $25 million marital estate. They'd burned several hundred thousand dollars each in council fees. We'd gone through a bunch of litigation. We managed to settle the case.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
And the only thing we were down to was the division of personal property. And we couldn't agree on who got a $45 toaster oven. And the settlement blew up. Wow. The settlement blew up. Wow. $45 fucking dollar.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
I actually did that. I actually said, I'm on Amazon right now. Prime delivery. I will buy everyone in this room this toaster. If we could just sign the fucking deal. Because it's never about the toaster. It wasn't about the fucking toaster. I mean, I have a lot of stories, but I will tell you this is one you'll appreciate. So I had a client who was a devout fundamentalist Christian.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
And he was later convicted, actually, of molesting kids and went to jail. But that's a side note.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
Yeah, it's all of you. It's all of you. But he was a great, you know, he was a client that was, he had a lot of money. And we had worked very hard to negotiate a settlement of his case. And the day comes to sign the settlement and to do what's called a voir dire, which is where the judge says to each party, do you understand the settlement? Did you agree to it? Are you under duress?
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
You know, so these are the steps. But like, it was great. I got him a great deal, like a great deal. Like this was way better than it would have been at trial. And he didn't have to go through the trial. And this was great for him. And he meets me at the courthouse the morning of it. And he says, Jim, I need to talk to you. I spoke to God last night. I prayed on it. Oh boy.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
And God said to me that I should not, that I should take it to trial. And I said, that is a terrible idea. And I explained to him again, here's all the ways that we're getting value here. Here's all the things, this is what it should be. And he said, no, I'm sorry. I prayed on it. And the Lord has said to me, you know, so of course it fucking blew up. The whole thing went haywire.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
That's pretty good. So I took on the case and... You know, I I it was like a professional hit.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
Okay. At 11. I talked to him. And he said, Jim, my son in whom I am well pleased. My blessings upon you. By the way, are you going to see Steve later? When you do, tell him, forget that shit I said earlier.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
You could have just said, I talked to God a half hour later and he said, take the fucking deal.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
So if that ever happens to me again.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
He fucked around and he found out. I mean, you know, and there's, listen, man, I, I give people advice and I tell clients all the time, like, look, 850 bucks an hour. I'll mow your fucking lawn. I don't care. Like I was a waiter. I've done worse shit for less money. Yeah.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
But like, you're paying me for advice. So if you want to pay me for advice and ignore it, Go ahead. Your shit blows up. It's good for me. Yeah. Like the more protracted your case is, the better it is for me. I'm trying to put myself out of business here. Like I'm trying to settle your case. But if you want to fuck around and find out, fuck around and find out.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
Because it's not how it works for me. Like, I look at it as it's a legal issue. It's a puzzle. It's strategy. Like, just like I think if a doctor, you know, is operating on a patient and he finds out that patient is a horrible person in real life, it's like, right, but I'm looking at this as, like, plumbing. I'm looking at this as, like, this is a problem I'm trained to fix. Like, I...
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
I have a God-given talent. Like I don't know how it came about, but like I see seven moves ahead in a courtroom. Like half the time, I don't even know why I'm making an argument I'm making. And then when I think about it, I go, oh, I did that so they would do this so that then I could do this, that then would make the judge.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
Like, and I, if I'd consciously, you know, they've done studies on how by the time there's any micro movement from a pitcher that could be observed by the batter, it's too late for them to start the swing. But there's still people hit fastballs. So there is some exchange of energy that happens there. There's some micro something that can be sensed by a good hitter in baseball.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
It's the same thing. Like I have a talent for this that I don't know where it came from. I feel blessed to have it. I love what I do. Like I love to be able to do something that you love and do it at the highest level and do it well is like the greatest gift in the world. But I really, when I'm in a courtroom, like I am way more comfortable in a courtroom than I am in my living room.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
I have no idea what to do with myself in my living room. I have no idea. I'm one of those people that like, I'm great in war and terrible in peace. I have no idea what to do with myself. But in a courtroom, I know the rules. I know exactly what to do. And I go in and I am so calm and cool. It's like Neo in the Matrix. Everything slows down and I just know exactly what's expected of me.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
And I actually when I got to the courthouse, I shouldn't say this in public, but I will. I'm close enough to retirement. I can get away with it. I actually went up to the court officers who are, you know, the security for the building. They're armed, you know.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
And I don't know where that comes from, but that's what happens is I no longer am thinking about this person or that person. I'm thinking about the job that needs to be done and how to do it. And that's it.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
Yeah, I mean, it comes in a lot. The divorce rate among cultures where there's a lot of arranged marriage is actually quite low. And I think that that can be attributed to the fact that people enter into marriage with a different expectation.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
Like in a lot of cultures where, you know, particularly Muslim cultures I've had some experience with, where individuals marry and there's an arranged marriage that's arranged by the parents. It's really done with this sense that marriage is about a family, a partnership, building something together. It's not this overly romanticized. The idea is that we will grow to love each other.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
And love, you know, love is a feeling, but love is a verb, too. Like, to love someone is to act with love towards that person. Like, there are plenty of examples of people who were in arranged marriages or marriages that they weren't quite sure, and then they grew to, through shared experience and common, like, loving children together, they grew to say, you know, this is how it is.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
So I think that religion and people's religious backgrounds plays a huge role in how they approach the world. And how we approach the world obviously informs how we do our marriage. I mean, I will say, as someone who was raised very strict Catholic,
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
you know, my Catholicism and my like sort of understanding of the rigidity of the mass and when you stand and when you sit and how you address it, it's very much was good practice for the courtroom. Like, because courtroom's very much the same. Like there's people you treat a different way. There's someone who's in charge.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
And I said to him, by the way, this is because I had mentioned that there was this case coming in where I had video of this guy beating the dog. And you ever want to see like people's vindictive side come out, tell them somebody beat up a puppy. Like I have to tell you people like a little old lady would be like, kill the motherfucker.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
There's, you know, there's like a hierarchy and you humble yourself before that hierarchy and you're not like bowing and genuflecting is not something that's a source of shame. It's a source of pride. It's like, I'm strong enough to humble myself in front of someone. And so I think that religion at its best infuses every aspect of a person's life.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
And so I've seen some couples that are very religious. What is hard to watch... and I've done a lot of divorces where people have the same religious faith and then one of them loses that faith. And it creates a schism in the relationship that is very hard to fix because religion has certain first principles from which people are working, you know?
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
And so if you lose those foundational first principles, they tether so many other things in the marriage, like that it gets really, really tricky, you know?
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
Yeah. Fuck. Yeah, but sometimes, again, to throw the counterpoint, I've done a lot of divorces, for example, in the Hasidic community, in the ultra-Orthodox Jewish community. And that is a community, I don't think I'm giving anything away when I say that if you could choose between being a man in that community or a woman in that community, you're better off being a man.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
Like women aren't allowed to drive. There's a lot of rules imposed on women that are challenging. It's a fairly admittedly patriarchal society, culture, you know, enclave. And so sometimes those women will say like, yeah, I can't do this anymore. Like, I don't want to be in this game anymore. I want to step out of this. And that's very challenging.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
It's very, very challenging because it is very, very difficult to reconcile an ultra-orthodox religious life and someone who goes fully in the other. Because people like... Moderation doesn't play into it. People treat dandruff with decapitation. People go from, I'm ultra-religious to, fuck that, I'm as far from religious as you can be. You ever want to meet somebody who's a virulent atheist?
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
Find someone who was raised super-religious. It's like people go in that opposite direction. And it's challenging, but it also sometimes is... We all change as time moves on. And that's the challenge, I think, is being honest with yourself about what's changed and then being able to be honest with your partner.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
So I said to the court officer, I said, listen, I said, this case is in today. They said, oh, that guy's today. I said, yeah. I said, and by the way, I said, if he and I ended up in the restroom at the same time together, he started whatever fight happened. And they were like, Absolutely. In fact, we heard him shouting at me. I was like, thanks, man.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
I will tell you, doing what I do for a living, one of the things I've learned is the most dangerous lies are the ones we tell ourselves. And most of the time when we lie to our partner, we're lying to ourself and then we're lying to our partner. And so I just, that's why I'm always a fan of the honest conversation. Like just be honest, be frank, be candid, just say the quiet part out loud.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
Like, and I think that's why to some degree, like, and I'm not saying this to be, you know, I'm not trying to, you know, have your wives not be mad at me, although it would be good to have them not be mad at me or you. I think one of the things I've found about comics, I've represented a couple of comics,
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
There is something really naked and honest about getting up in front of people and talking about your most vulnerable, embarrassing, dumb shit. It's also the funniest shit. It's the shit people can relate to. But you use that muscle all the time. So I imagine in relationship you do the same thing. And that's probably why. I know a lot of comics that are incredibly happily married.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
I know some that never marry because of the lifestyle on the road and things like that, substance use issues, stuff like that. But I know a lot of comics that are very, very happily married because that same self-effacing insight and open, unashamed, like, calling out their own bullshit serves people pretty well in a relationship.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
I think you can learn a lot about keeping things together by watching how they fall apart. And that's why I wrote the book. What's the name of the book so we can plug it? It's called How to Stay in Love, Practical Wisdom from an Unlikely Source. And you can get it on like Audible if you want to listen to me talk for eight and a half hours. Or you can just get it anywhere. It's for sale anywhere.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
And, you know, I've learned a lot by being a divorce lawyer about what keeps people together. What I've learned, I would say more than anything else, is just pay attention. Just pay attention. Like... People get divorced the same way they go bankrupt. Very slowly and then all at once. Like you don't get divorced because your husband's cheating on you, your wife's cheating on you.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
Your husband's cheating on you, your wife's cheating on you because there was slippage. There were all these little things. Like, you know those little things you did when you first were dating your wife to like let her know how beautiful she was and how like you like her better than other options. Yeah.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
And all those little things she did for you that made you feel like the fucking coolest guy and the best guy. You loved who you were when you're with her. Yeah, for sure. You stood taller. You went like, yeah, I might be the person this person thinks I am.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
When we start losing that, like there are these little things, like the advice I give, one of the pieces of advice I give in my book, the one that I get the most feedback on, as I said, leave a note. Just leave your wife a note. whatever, every day when you leave the house, just takes 30 seconds. Just like, babe, it was so fun watching that movie with you last night.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
I married the prettiest girl in the world. Can't wait to see you later. What does it take, 30 seconds? What is that doing though? It's saying, I still see you. I still think you're beautiful. You're still worth my time. You're still worth my attention. There's all these other things going on in the world. There's the kids.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
There's a million things, the thousand natural shocks that flesh is heir to, right? But you're still, it's still you and me. It's still you and me. And those little things, just pay attention. Pay attention and don't let slippage happen. Because it is, look, it is so much easier to stay a healthy weight than it is to get super fucking fat and try to lose 100 pounds. So it's the same thing.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
But sure enough, that was a case where that single piece of evidence was able to just neutralize his ability to go in and be a charming person. You saw the real side of him that you talked about. Exactly. And the more he went in trying to be charming as opposed to saying like... The more psycho he looks.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
Once the wheels come off this thing, it is really hard to get back there. So just if you care about this person and you care about the value of that marriage, just take that little bit of time to just, again, it can be just a kind word. It can just be building this person up when people are around instead of taking the piss out of them around people.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
Like it can be anything. It can be any little gestures, but those are the things that make us fall in love. Those are the things that make us stay in love. And when you let those little things slip, that's when the wheels start coming off. And that's, there's a short road from that to my office.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
So I always just tell people, pay attention and just make a point of cheering for the person that you're with. That's it. Amen to that.
Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh
Why Relationships Die & Which Ethnicity is WORST in Divorce | The Divorce Expert
Well, and that's exactly what you say to the judge, because I said to the judge, I'm like, no, judge, you know, for every cockroach you see, there's 50 in the walls. Like we caught this on video.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
There's lots of cultural, religious, there's all kinds of, but at the end, we are where we are in that equation. And I think marriage is something most men are like, okay, if that's the price, like if I got to buy that ticket to take the ride, I like the ride. I don't want to lose the ride. I don't want to lose this person. Oh man, I'm just, I'm not, I'm not necessarily, I'm sorry.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
People lie to their therapist. They don't lie to their divorce lawyer. Like, I have had 25 years of conversations with men who are ending a marriage or starting a marriage and getting a prenup or thinking about getting a prenup, but they're too afraid to say anything to her about it. I've had those same things with women. I've represented roughly half, half men, half women.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
And I'm telling you, like, you don't have to like the truth. The truth is the truth. Like, you don't have to like, like, I get it, man. Like, don't shoot the messenger. Like, that's how it is, you know?
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
And every time I speak about these things, because they're so tied in with gender stuff and they're so, I know I'm putting a huge target and everyone's like, oh, this guy, I don't care because here's the thing, sit in my office for a week.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
How is that passive?
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
That's the economy of love. What, you like going to antique shows? I don't. But you know what? If she wants to go to, if that's something she enjoys, you think she enjoys Brazilian jujitsu tournaments? Have you smelled one? Like, trust me, that's not, but you know what? I love it, and she's excited to see me be so excited.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
Oh, trust me, you can smell it from here. It's unbelievable. The funk is like you'd never believe in your whole life. The only other thing is like equestrian is maybe the only other habit that could smell as bad as that. But the truth is, part of love is, you know, you want that slice of pizza more than I do. Like, part of it is like, okay, like, this is important to you.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
Yeah, the pleasure and sacrifice. Right, because listen, if it's important to me and it's important to you, am I doing it for you or am I doing it for me or both of us? Like, what's beautiful is when you're not sacrificing to give, you know, when there's this feeling of like, if this is important to you, it just became important to me. Right.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
Like, and that, but that's at the core of any healthy relationship. You know, if you say to me as my friend, like, Jim, this upsets me. Okay. Or I'm scared of this. If I go, well, I'm not scared of that. You know, like, thanks. That didn't do anything for me. Yeah, it sort of ceases to be a friendship at that point. Right. When you say to someone like, hey, I get that, man. You know what?
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
Like it's phenomenal. All of that sounds great. It's like, you know, like, oh, I like this ice cream. What's not to like? It's ice cream. Of course you like ice cream.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
Honestly, like, I understand that. Like, I don't, I'm not afraid of that. And here's how I think about it, which is why I'm not afraid of it. Like, and I hope that maybe helps, you know? Like, and that's what, or just hearing the person and going like, yeah, I get that, man. Hey, that's fair. Like, people are... afraid? I got some stuff I'm afraid of that you're probably not afraid of.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
Like, that's okay. So why is it? I don't think there's something passive about a man saying, yeah, marriage was not that important to me, but it was important to her. And what's important to her becomes important to me because she's important to me.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
I feel like that's love. Like that's a big piece of love. And so I think marriage can be one of those things where just like whether you wanted it or the other person wanted it, like there's something wonderful about you're excited about this. Okay, let's do it.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
Of course, get a prenup. Why would you not get a prenup? Listen, man, I love you. And I trust you're a good driver. We get in the car, I'm putting on a seatbelt. Putting on a seatbelt. Why wouldn't I? Because there are other drivers.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
There's other drivers on the road. And by the way, like, again, this is a situation where there are rules in place, whether you accept it or not. Like, that's the thing about the truth, right? Like, my beliefs don't require you to believe them. Like, this is the—you don't have to believe the truth if it's the truth. It's the truth. Like, there is a rule set governing every single marriage.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
It was written by the state legislature, period.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
Yeah, and your place in the timeline and the history and the merging of families, the merging of clans, and sort of this, we're going to merge now and maybe new life comes of that. Yeah. And then that life merges with more life and we become part of this chain. Like this is gorgeous stuff. And this is the fundamental building blocks of human civilization.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
So I've given this a lot of thought because— The nature of my constitution is to look at patterns and look for patterns. We're similar in that regard. And so I'm always looking at that. For 25 years, I've been looking at like same religion, different religion. Cohabitated before marriage, didn't cohabitate before marriage. Age gap, no age gap.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
Female age gap, like she's older, he's younger versus the other way. Like I try to find patterns. And I try to – the patterns that can't be tracked by the government in a certificate of dissolution of marriage. The patterns that can only be tracked by someone who's observing this, right?
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
And I've really tried to look at that from every angle, including the angle that you just said, which is people that connect in the romantic setting or enter a monogamous relationship or make a romantic connection even if it doesn't stay monogamous throughout that whole journey.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
So like they met in high school, dated in high school, or dated and then went off to college, dated other people, and then they reconnect to each other after they played in the other fields. And then they go, OK, now we're going to be together. I've looked at all of that. And what I will tell you is, in my experience, in my observation, what he said is certainly true.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
But it also ignores the negative, which is also true. So, yes, there is a scenario where people meet at a relatively young age, teens, 20s, whatever it might be, They marry or they become monogamous with each other and then they eventually marry or stay in a romantic relationship together.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
And they grow in that like tree that the roots become intertwined and they just know which – and they build a history together that is just irreplaceable, you know, because – Who like you were there when my mom was still alive, you know, like you were there when I, you know, got into law school, you know, like not just when I passed the bar or not just when I built up.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
So it is perfectly understandable that we get absolutely intoxicated by the thought of it and that we get so hopped up. But here's what people don't think about. The term contract never gets into that discussion. I'm telling you right now, right now someone's getting married somewhere and they've never – the word contract has never come out of there. They don't view marriage as a contract.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
Like you were here for this whole trajectory and there's this shared history. I mean, you have old friends. I have old friends. There's something about someone who was with you when there was just no history. Like, no, I have some friends that it's like, dude, there was no reason to be friends with me other than, like, I had nothing to offer you. I had no money. I had no status. I was a C student.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
And something about you still was like, nah, that's my buddy, you know? And I love that. So there is a tremendous beauty in that when it works. There is also that... People who have known each other since the beginning, as they grow and age and mature and they reach the stage in life where they start to, as we can call it, a midlife crisis, which, by the way, is not reserved for men.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
Like men and women both have a form of that. That they start to say, hey, like have I really felt everything there is to feel? Have I – I've only slept with this person for the last 15 years. Like there's so many other things out there. There's so many other experiences out there and I haven't had them. So there's a sense – and by the way, there's also a –
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
you know, mistaking correlation for causation in the sense of saying, you know, I'm dissatisfied with my life and you've been here for the whole thing. So it must be you that I'm unhappy with, as opposed to the choices I've made and where they've led me or the person who I've become rather than who you be.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
It's much easier to point to the other person and say, oh, you're the reason why I'm so unhappy. I gave you my skinny years, you know, like it's over now, you know, like, and so it's, I think it ignores that.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
I have not found, and believe me, I'd be the first to say it, if I could find a pattern where I would say, okay, live together or don't live together, or these are ways to prevent divorce, is like this is what you should be looking for in a partner, same religious structure, same whatever, you were both raised in households with alcoholics, or neither of you was raised, whatever. I don't see it.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
I don't see it. I think... Everything that's virtue can be vice. I think that there's lots of ways that being together from an early age can add depth and beauty to your relationship. And there are ways that it can cause people to not value each other the same way or view each other the same way. I think familiarity can breed contempt. And I think that, you know, no man is a hero to his butler.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
Like, I think that when people have been together through a lot of those things, sometimes there is a familiarity that comes. Whereas, again, I think the opposite is true also, which is having had someone who's in your corner for an extended period of time solidifies and deepens that relationship. There is no simple answer to that.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
I think there are a lot of things people can do in the relationship that to heighten the bonds created by a long shared history and keep everyone's eye on that ball than to have them distracted by novelty. I also think realism becomes really important.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
Like looking at it and saying like, you know, if you've been with the same partner for 15, 20 years, that the fact your eye might wander to a shiny object, like not being afraid to admit that And figure out ways to like, hey, I feel this. It's a human way to feel. That's okay. You know, like how do we deal with that? Like what do we do with that?
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
The two things that I as a divorce lawyer am constantly thinking about is marriage as an economy – and marriage as a contract. And those are two. The minute you say that, people assume you don't believe in or experience emotionally any of those other beautiful things you just said.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
Is it an ethical non-monogamy, which is what a lot of like younger, I don't want to say younger, but like a modern generation is certainly there are people coming up with different permutations of relationships, right? Where there's ethical non-monogamy, where there's a sense of, OK, we're going to have certain open things in our relationship.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
Like a lot of my gay male friends have been doing that for years where they had, you know, because, again, a society like a culture that has been ostracized and told that what you're doing is an aberration and you're not like which is what it was when I was growing up.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
Like the gay community was like had to hide to some degree because you could be literally killed for expressing your sexual orientation. So what does that do? Well, there's a freedom that comes with that to some degree. If you're on the outskirts of society, you're like, all right, well, we just make up our own rules, I guess.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
Yeah, they really are. They're like, listen, like we're already told we're awful, terrible people for being who we are. So we might as well come up with our own ways of doing stuff. So I knew lots of gay men from the 80s on who, you know, were like, yeah, like we have certain rules in the relationship. Like we can hook up, but the other person has to be transparent about it.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
Or there's certain boundaries you can't cross in terms of, you know, how sexually you interact with this person. Or it's something that we'll only do together in the form of a threesome. Again, it's a permutation of relationship that is between those two people. It's up to them. That's the conversation the two of them can have.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
So I think there are things any couple can do to feed what's good in the relationship and dampen the negative impact of the things that are challenging in a relationship. I don't think there's anything. But again, the solution to that problem is not just pretend we don't have a problem. Just shut your mouth because if you say it out loud, it's going to make it real.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
Because I think these are precious illusions that people have. And they cling to them. And I understand why. Like, it's nice to pretend everything's fine, you know. But it's not honest. And... I think there's tremendous value in saying these things to your partner, sharing them, hearing them, which, by the way, that's a two-way transaction.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
Like, if you're going to be in a relationship where you're able to say things that might be hard for your partner to hear but are important for them to hear, you have to be prepared to let them do the same thing. So, again, that's why it's brave. Because there's this sense of I would like an uncomfortable truth more than a comfortable lie.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
And I think 90% of the appeal of my media work in this chapter of my life has been that people go, oh, a divorce lawyer. This is just going to be a guy talking about how marriage is the worst thing ever. And in reality, I think what I'm saying is, look, this is amazing. This is wonderful. Why wouldn't you fall in love? Why wouldn't you have pair bonds?
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
Yeah. So what I'll say is a couple of things. Again, not a clear correlation. Like we all have anecdotal stories we can tell of people who were together for extended periods of time and then split up. And we all have a couple of stories of people who – like I have a dear friend who got a woman pregnant on the first date. Like first date.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
Like they went to movie and dinner and then they had sex and she got pregnant. And she called him like a couple of weeks later and was like, I'm pregnant. And he was like, I'm marrying her. And I was like, I'm sorry, is it 1950? Like what? No, like you don't even know her. You went on a one date with her. And he's like, nope, I'm going to do the right thing.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
I'm like, the right thing is to marry a stranger? Because you had sex with her and got her pregnant? Like, are you serious? You know? They've been married 28 years. 28 years, three kids, happily. Yeah. 28 years, three kids. That's wonderful to hear. I mean, it's a warming story. Yeah, it's a warming story. It's an anecdotal, you know, it's not proof of anything.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
I'm not suggesting people go out and knock somebody up on the first date and then just take the chances. If you do, get a prenup. That's all I'm going to say. But... You know, I think that, again, it depends on what, like, if I said to you, I go to the gym for an hour every day, is that good for me? If your answer is anything other than, I don't know, what do you do there?
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
Because if what I do is I walk on the treadmill for three minutes and then I sit in the steam room for half an hour and then the rest of the time I'm on my phone, then I might as well have stayed home probably, right? Whereas if I say, oh, I never go to the gym, does that mean that's bad? No. Maybe I do bodyweight workouts at home all the time and I never set foot in a gym.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
So I don't think it tells the story. So the truth is, is a couple that's together for an extended period of time and has the kind of relationship where they're learning about each other through that process. Like practice doesn't make perfect. Perfect practice makes perfect. Look, time is good. Time is good in the sense that you're going to see some good things and some bad things.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
You're going to see this person at their best and at their worst. You're going to see them through some difficult times. They're going to see you in some difficult times. And hopefully... You'll you'll know what you're like if you got to drive a car for six months before you decided if you were going to buy it or not. Like, you know, you would know you make a much more informed choice.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
Why do you think they don't let you drive a car for six months before you buy it? Like there's a reason for that because you'd see the whole thing. Like that's that's again, I think it's a great idea. Like but you try test drive any car. It's going to be fun. I mean, maybe you'll see like, oh, this is boxy. I don't really like it. Look, I've seen, again, successful and unsuccessful brief pairings.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
What I will say is when people have had a long – I'll call it courtship period or premarital period – That they used to deepen their connection to each other and get to know the good and bad of each other and see each other in good circumstances and bad circumstances and with and without makeup. And when you're mad and got cut off in traffic and when you're happy and blissed out.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
Why wouldn't you consider locking in with another person and say, but my God, be honest with yourself about the risks involved. Be honest with yourself about the ways you can hedge that risk. And be honest with yourself about the contract and the economy. Because those are two things that I do not think That there is anything unromantic.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
Yeah, they're making an informed choice. Like, they're buying something that they understand what it's like, you know? Like, friends of mine say to me all the time, like, I'm thinking about getting a dog. Like, sorry to make this analogy for romance and dogs, but, like, somebody says they want to get a dog. Well, it's a beautiful day out and I want to go running with the dog in the park.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
Who wouldn't? But if you're not ready to have the dog when it ate something and now has diarrhea and it's raining outside and you've got to keep taking it outside and you've got to keep washing your cup, then don't get a dog, man. Because you know what? It's not playing in the park all day long. It's I've got to get home. Why?
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
200%. Are you kidding me? Because one of those sunny days is worth everything. And, by the way, if you love it enough, even that stupid part with the, like, it's an act of love. It's like, I don't care. Like, I don't care. I'll clean up after this thing. I fucking love it.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
By the way, you love them so much that all you care about is like, it's okay, buddy. It's okay. My dog throws up and all. I'm like, it's okay. Get it out. It's okay.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
Yeah. One more week. And you know what? Like, I think that... A romantic relationship, there is no reason why you can't use the courtship period to sort of test all those permutations. And I don't think, by the way, that people would just stop buying cars if you had a six-month trial period on the vehicle. I think there's something really okay.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
Like you would still – maybe you would – when you made a choice, you would really be picking one that you really liked. So what I will say in response to the question – I made a long answer – is –
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
I don't think that a long courtship period – for example, if the courtship period, the length of it is a function of one of them being super reluctant to commit to the other person, that might not be a good indicator.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
But if the purpose of that courtship period, that extended engagement or that extended dating period is to really get a feel of each other in a variety of conditions, like to know a thing, know its limits – When it's pushed beyond its tolerances, its nature emerges. So I think there's value in seeing, like, I don't want to just see you with makeup on.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
Like, because you're going to not be wearing makeup for a lot of this relationship. I want to see what you look like coming out of the shower, you know? And by the way, like, you should want that. You should want that too. You want me to look at you with no makeup on and go, oh, you're beautiful. You look great. Like, do I love it when you put on makeup? Of course.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
But do I love it when you've got the flu and like I can take care of you? Yeah, I love that too. That's beautiful in a different way. So I think... that if you use the time the right way, there's tremendous value in that, much better than just throwing a dart at the board. Like, I find this person attractive, they find me attractive, fuck it, let's do this thing.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
Like, I don't think that that is a good recipe. I've seen a lot of divorces that come from a very brief courtship. But is that the death? No, no. I think sometimes people just get it right. I mean, listen, you and I both know people, take it out of the romantic context, right? Who just get rich quick. Like they make one cool decision and it just pays off. They make one good bet and it pays off.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
I don't think it takes away from the romance or the beauty of a thing. You know, I often say my favorite poem is a poem by Joseph Brodsky called A Song. And he wrote it when his wife passed away. And it's a beautiful poem about love and loss. And the sort of refrain of the poem is, I wish you were here, dear. Like, I wish you were here, dear. I wish you were here.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
And I know other people, man, they had to take the stairs. Like they had 15 versions of it and it went bankrupt three times and then one of the things hit. And that was the one. And then everybody goes, I always knew you were going to be successful. You know, I always knew that. Really? Because I didn't. Like it was a series of near misses until I hit. So I think it's the same thing.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
I think how you use the time is what really matters. Love it.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
So I think that, you know, a friend of mine once said to me that the most important or really the only question that therapy is designed to answer is what is it that you're afraid to feel? And so I think that there's tremendous value in sharing with a partner and learning about a partner what it is they're afraid to feel.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
and looking at the things about yourself that you're afraid to share, I think in my own experience and I think in that of most of my clients, you know, I'm not religious. Like I'm not religious anymore. I was raised religious. So I don't really believe in the devil. Like I don't think that there's like this malevolent creature that's out there trying to convince people to be evil.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
But if there was a devil... I think the principal function of the devil would be to convince us that we're so bestial that God couldn't possibly love us. Like, I think the greatest mistakes of my life I always made, and the most selfish, awful decisions I made, I made because I convinced myself that I wasn't good. Like I convinced myself that, what does it matter? Like nothing means anything.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
I wish we sat in the car and you sat near. It's this beautiful poem. And one of the lines is, I wish you were here, dear. I wish you were here. I wish I knew no astronomy when stars appear. And I remember the first time I read that line thinking like, oh, that's so beautiful. Because once you know astronomy, there's something less magical about the stars.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
Like just do whatever. Who cares? No one's looking. Just do it. It doesn't matter. And when I look at, whether you want to call it the presence of God in me, Buddha nature, call it anything you want to call it, but When I hold to the angels of my better nature, like the part of my heart that is good and loving and compassionate, and I let that be my compass, right?
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
That's when the greatest victories, the greatest joys, like the best things happen. And I'm not suggesting being, like, ignorant and being like, oh, the whole world's full of, like, puppies and sunshine. Listen, I'm a divorce lawyer, man. I live in the world of misery. But it has not robbed me of the belief in the good and the depth of the power of love, right?
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
And how badly I want it and how bad we all want it. And so... I think the most valuable thing that people can do is when you're not in a relationship or whether you're in a relationship is when do you feel the most loved and when do you feel the most loving, right? And then when you connect to another person, Find out the answer for them because it's probably different.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
Like it might be some things that are the same, but there might be some things that are completely different. You know, there's a good possibility that if you told the creamer story that she would be like, oh, my God, I don't even remember that. Like I don't even remember that happening. And yet for you, it was such a – so I think there's a lot of those things.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
Like sometimes when you ask somebody, what's your favorite memory of me? Like, the thing they'll tell you, you'll go, I don't even remember saying it. Like, I've had people say to me, like, oh, my God, you said this thing on this podcast. And I'm like, what was it? And they say it. I'm like, I said that? I'm like, I mean, it sounds like I agree with it.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
Like, I have absolutely no recollection of saying it. I mean, partly I talk so much it's hard to remember what's important. But I really think that there's tremendous value in being brave in the conversations we have with ourselves about love. I think that lying to yourself – because here's the thing. If you can be authentically yourself with another person, then you're going to feel their love.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
Like that's what I mean about the devil is the idea that like if I just show my partner the best parts of myself and I don't admit to them or share with them the things I'm afraid of, the shit I need to work on, all that kind of stuff – then I'm never going to feel their love because they don't love me. They love the character I'm playing.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
They love the persona that I've developed in this relationship, and I'll never feel their love. Whereas if I'm brave enough to share with this person the parts of me that I don't understand, I'm afraid of, I'm unhappy with, I'm ashamed of, and they love me anyway, Like, then I'm going to really feel that love. And that love can be a transformative kind of love.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
Like, that's a love worth having, you know. So I think anything that deepens your ability to know yourself and deepens your ability to know your partner and let your partner know that you want to know them. Like, the whole thing. Like, I want to know what you need to work on. I want to be here to help. Like, I'm here for you. I'm here. It's just like friendship. Friendship's easier.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
Well, I don't know. See, I don't believe it has to be that way.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
You know, friendship's easier than romantic love. Like, it's super easy to say, like, hey, man, you know I'm cheering for you. You know I am. I wouldn't be. I don't have to be here. Like, I don't have to be—that's part of why I like prenups. Like, I don't want you here because you have to be here. I want you here because you want to be here because you're in, man.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
Like, there was a time where we were in, and we decided to do this thing. And that, to me, like, that's the whole thing. So I think that's the secret. In terms of if you're already in a relationship—
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
And you go, okay, like postnups, there's problems with postnups because from a contractual legal standpoint, contracts fail for what's called want of consideration, meaning that in every contract, there has to be an exchange of value. Like, so they use the car thing again. I'm giving you money, you're giving me a car. Like, we're each exchanging, we're each giving and receiving value.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
The consideration for a prenup, is we don't have to get married, but I'm willing to marry you if we amend the rule set in the following way. So that has a mutuality of consideration. There are some courts that have held that a postnup, there is no consideration, and it fails as a contract. Because staying married is not consideration. It's assumed that you would stay married legally.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
So that's why postnups can fail. Now, that being said, do I think the message that I have about... and how to interact with your partner and the things I wrote in my book. Like, you know, my book, How to Stay in Love, Practical Wisdom from an Unlikely Source. The idea is,
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
Was not to just talk about people in troubled relationships or to approach people who were not yet in relationships and give them a rule set to start with. Like I trained Brazilian jiu-jitsu for many years and people will often say – because people are 30, 40, 50 and they want to get into Brazilian jiu-jitsu. And, you know, there's an old joke. I don't know.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
It was one of the Gracies who first said it. I don't want to offend Hoyler. I think it was Hoyler, but I'm not sure. It might have been Hickson. Where someone said, what's the best age to start jujitsu? And he said, five or now. And I think that's the answer. Like, so all these techniques, all these things we're talking about, what's the best time to implement them? The day you meet this person.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
or now, like I don't care if you're married 10 years, 20 years, 30 years, you're telling me that right now there wouldn't be value in seeing your partner, allowing yourself to be seen by your partner. Like a lot of the practical wisdom, I think, that's so simple of like, in my book, there's a chapter where I just talk about, it's called Leave a Note.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
And it basically just says like, leave your partner a note. Like when you leave for the office in the morning, leave a note. Like, hey, you know, so fun on the couch with you last night watching TV. I married the prettiest girl in the world. Can't wait to see you again. What does that take, 30 seconds? 30 seconds, right? Nothing. Such a minimal investment. Didn't cost you anything.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
That's why you won't see it on TV advertised, by the way. Because it didn't cost anything. You don't have to buy anything. You don't need anything to do that thing. But what does it say to your partner? I see you. You're important to me. I took the time in the middle of the things I'm doing to let you know you're important to me. Like, and who wouldn't want that?
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
Who wouldn't want their partner, even after 20 years of marriage, especially after 20 years of marriage, to say, God, you're handsome. Like, I'm just, I don't know, something about you. Like, who wouldn't want to hear that? Like, who wouldn't have their day brightened by that a little bit? And again, maybe at first your partner would go, are you all right? What are you doing?
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
I had a buddy who actually did the note thing. And he said, he was like, yeah, for like the first week. She was like, what's going on? Are you having an affair? Like, are you dying? What's going on? And he said, but after like, and I just said, no, I, you know, I just, I want to make more of a point of like being present, you know?
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
And he said, after like three weeks, four weeks, he was like, dude, I'm having like, we're like having the best chapter. Like we're having more sex. We're having more fun. Like he's like, and now she's like texting me in the middle of the day. Like, by the way, like, again, not to gender things.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
But, like, leaving a note or sending a text in the middle of the day that just goes, I was just thinking of you. Like, I just wanted you to know I was thinking of you. It's the equivalent of sending a man nudes. Like, because what does it say? It says, hey, like, I know the world's crazy and everything's kind of, but, like, it's you and me.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
It's you and me, and you're this special person that gets to hear these things from me or see these things of me that other people don't get to see because I'm yours and you're mine. What is better than that? And what is the downside to trying? Because worst case, you spent 30 seconds of your life and you didn't get a return on your investment. Okay? You're no worse off than you were. So...
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
Even though you may not be able to avail yourself of the rule set concept that can happen when you haven't married yet and you have a prenup and you have that discussion, I think you could still have that core conversation. Again, not about if we split up, how do we divide our assets? That's not what this is about. It's about what do we owe each other?
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
What do we bring to this economy, this relationship of the two of us, this exchange of value? I have a friend. has been married probably about 10 years, happily, really happily. And he was telling me how they call it a walk and talk, that once a week they just go for a walk, like a hike together. They live in Colorado.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
And they've made a practice of telling each other like two or three things that they did that week that like were a big win. Like two or three things that like made them feel loved or whatever it might be. And then they try to have at least one or two things that they could have done better or where they might have crossed wires.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
And they kind of do a praise sandwich, you know, like so they do the good and then a few of the bad and then back to the good again. And I said to him, like, is there a discernible impact? And he's like, it's like the best thing we do. He's like, because it really helps us course correct in real time. But the most valuable part is actually not the here's what you got wrong.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
It's the here's what you did right. Like, here's the stuff that made me feel loved. And because that death spiral that people get into in relationships is Where it's like, well, I'm not happy. Why should they be happy? I'm like, well, I didn't get to go out with my friends. Why should she get to go out with her friends? Well, I had a miserable day too.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
Well, it's like, well, why is your miserable day more important than my miserable day? Like that death spiral, you can reverse that. It can work the other way, which is like just keep meeting this with an abundance of love, affection, compassion, positive reinforcement. And again, not always. Believe me, I work in the clay of domestic violence, intimate partner abuse.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
I've seen it up close and personal. I know there are toxic, awful people who are just not going to be able to have a functional relationship. But find that out sooner rather than later. And then cut your losses and get out. Like, because I have to tell you something. You say how, you know, you see like a couple that's 70 or 80 and they're getting divorced and it's the saddest thing.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
It is, but it also begs the question, like, what would have happened if they were ill-suited for each other? How long did they hold on? Because I got to tell you, man, I'm not impressed when somebody says, oh, we were married for 60 years. We were miserable for 45 of them, but we did it. Like, oh, great. Like, great.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
Like, I don't, that's like that race they run in Death Valley where it's like I ran 150 miles in August. Okay. Like, what are you, that's great. That's insane. Like, but okay. Like, congratulations. You did something that sounds horribly painful and in no way positive. Like, but if you feel good about it, cool. Like, that's not to me a successful marriage.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
Successful marriage to me is we made each other's lives better. We made our own lives and each other's lives better for our coupling, for the fact that we were together.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
Maybe we created life and cultivated life together by birth or adoption, or maybe we just radiated joy to the people around us, you know, or maybe we had pets and we gave them a wonderful existence together, or maybe some combination of all those wonderful things. But Do I think that the solution is like longevity?
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
And say, no, because I don't think that the duration of something is the success or failure of it. Listen, if you make a six-hour shitty movie, I'm not going to be like, whoa, but it was six full hours. That is pretty good. Like, no. Whereas if you make a six-hour movie that holds my attention the entire six hours, that's a damn good movie. That's a movie worth making, you know?
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
Like I'll watch Casino or Goodfellas every time it's on. And it's like a full three hours almost, you know? And I don't care because it's that good. So I think that longevity, like endings and how relationships end, the fact that something ends does not mean that it wasn't valuable, like at all. I think that's a really crazy thing. Like every movie I've ever enjoyed ended.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
And if somebody said to me three quarters way through it, you know, this is going to end, I wouldn't be like, well, what's the point? You know, no, I want to watch the whole thing. And knowing that it's going to end is part of what makes it beautiful. So I think that protections are really important. Prenups are really important.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
It's ideal as early in a relationship as possible to have some of these conversations about the painful things that I have to help people wrestle with every single day. But I think the value received from that conversation is immeasurable.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
And I think some of the awful things are really beautiful. There's a line from Hemingway from A Farewell to Arms where he says, the world breaks everyone and some are stronger in the broken places. And I think divorce and heartbreak, like heartbreak is like that. Like heartbreak breaks everyone. And sometimes we're stronger in the broken places.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
Like I think I've learned so much through love and I've learned so much through loss. And I don't want my love of love to make me forget that loss exists. And I don't want the pain of loss to make me forget that love exists.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
But I think a point you're making that I think I would slightly reframe is the following. There is a contract that binds you and your business partner. It was written by the legislature of the state in which you reside. So do you want your relationship with this person governed by by a contract you didn't write, you had no input in, and the government can change without your consent or knowledge.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
I mean, I love talking to you in general, but we've never done it on mic, which is really funny.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
That was the most Huberman description of me. I love it. The density of value within that. I love the scientific lens through which you even look at the unscientific, although I guess everything is scientific in some ways. But no, man, I'm really glad we had a chance to do this. And You know, I love all of our conversations.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
And I thought to myself, it's going to be interesting and odd to have one. But I sort of immediately forgot that the microphone's here or the camera's here. And that's really lovely. Like, that's the best thing, you know, is when... Like if you said to me how long have we been talking, I would imagine it's like an hour, but I know it's way longer than that. I have no idea, though.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
I've completely – and that's that flow state, you know, that happens when we're wrestling with these ideas that are the most human ideas. And I love – I want to pay you a compliment on that. You know, before we were friends, I listened to your program in the earlier days of it. And I love how the journey of...
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
Becoming fully human and exploring the depth of our full humanity has become – like because something that was always very science-based tools and it's very easy to sort of just keep yourself in that box, you've really stepped out of your comfort zone, especially in recent years, and brought in –
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
these things that really are the totality of the human experience, all these relationship things, the pet thing I just listened to, I loved like, and I think that, that we're coming to a time where we realize that like, you know, we're, we're, what's the old saying that we're, you know, we're not thinking machines that sometimes feel we're feeling machines that sometimes think, you know, I think that you're really starting to,
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
get deeply into the totality of our humanity, the physical state, the emotional, spiritual, all of those things. And I think that's what we need, that if there is a cure, to the ailment of our time, the partisan, hyperpartisan environment, the misery and anxiety that so many people are feeling and the yearning, the spiritual hunger that has people consuming opinions and podcasts like deeply.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
I mean, who would have ever thought podcasts would be what it is, right? Like long form audio conversations, like we would go back to the radio. Like when we can world build with AI now and make anything visual for us, that we would go back to finding wisdom in this? And the fact that, like, that hunger is being fed by people like you who are saying, hey, like, this isn't – science won't save us.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
Spirituality won't save us. Love won't save us. Anger won't save us. All of it. We need all of it. And we need to try to wrestle with it and figure it out. And no one is necessarily better at this. Like you can – whatever car you drive, whatever profession, how much money you have in the bank, you may not be better or worse at this.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
So I think it's really beautiful that you're – the palette of things that you're discussing has become so broad. But you have remained very much you and very able to, like, bring it to a lens that is authentically yourself. And I love that about the show. Like, I remain a friend, but I also remain a fan.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
And by the way, once they've changed it, you can't say, oh, I don't like the new rules, so I don't want those to apply. Yeah, too late. Too late. So I tell everyone, you have a prenup. Every married person has a prenup. It was either written by the government or or written by the two people who allegedly love each other more than the other 8 billion other options in the world.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
Now, if you ask me, who is going to write a better contract? Unnamed politicians who are subject to being elected and unelected, or two people who have an abundance of optimism towards each other? Like, there's a rule set. There's a rule set.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
And if you're signing up for a rule set you wrote or co-authored with your partner, I think you're in a better place than saying, let's trust it to the government. I have to tell you, I've been to the DMV. I've never walked into the DMV and thought, these people should be in charge of everything. This is great. They have got it down. They should be in charge of my marriage.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
They should be in charge of my business dealings. They should be the ones who make the rules because they're clearly so together in their thinking. I don't feel that way. I feel like... There is tremendous value in the level of trust and optimism that two people at the beginning of a venture, whether that venture is a marriage or whether that venture is a business venture.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
While we're in this heavy space of optimism, excitement, trust in each other, that's the time to say, hey, we're going to disagree about something at some point. It happens. It may be my fault. I say dumb shit. I say dumb shit all the time. So I'll probably say something that's going to upset you. So why would you learn how to fight while you're in a fight?
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
Like, learn how to fight before you get in a fight. Learn the rule set. Have a discussion about, hey, if we disagree, what's the best way? Do you need a minute? Do you need some time to yourself to, like, kind of cool off? Or are you the kind of person that's like, no, we got to sort this out right now. I can't go to bed angry. I'll fester. So that, to me...
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
The right mindset is not faith and trust or contracts. I think that's the totally wrong way to frame it. I think the right way to frame it is there's a contract. Whether you want to call it a contract or not, just like there's an economy. An economy is an exchange of value. You know, this many bananas is worth this many coconuts. Because if it was, how many bananas will you trade me for bananas?
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
That's not an economy. Like, we're not bringing the same thing to the table. So it's the same thing. Why is it a dirty word to say, hey, I'm marrying you. Why? What do I bring to your life? What do I mean to you? What value do I present to you? And what value do you present to me so I know what to protect and preserve? You know, so I know, like, when that slips to start talking to you about it.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
And by the way, you can tell me and remind me when, hey— This thing I loved about you has changed. So like you talked about all these good things about your business partner. Like, oh, he has this vision or he has this patience or he has this organizational skill and he makes up for some things that I don't have. Like if you just said, oh yeah, he has the exact same characteristics as me.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
It's like, well, what do you need him then? It's many hands light work, maybe. But ideally, you have the Steve Jobs and the Steve Wozniak, either of whom without the other would have been kind of eh. But together, it's like lightning in a bottle. So I just genuinely think framing this slightly differently and saying there's going to be a rule set. So we are the best people to write that rule set.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
That's the way to look at it.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
You know, what do we owe each other? That's a huge piece for me. It's like, why are we doing this? You know, what is the problem we seek to solve? Or what is the value we add to each other's lives? That's such a beautiful question. Like, and by the way, it's an invitation to such an intimate discussion. Like, these are the things that you make me feel.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
Like, these are the things you do that make me feel that way. Like, you make me feel loved. Yeah. Really, when? When you remember that tea that I like and you make sure that it's here, you know, or, oh, when you, you know, remembered it was my sister's birthday and sent her a text and then sent me a screenshot. Like, these are this dumb little things that make us feel so loved and seen.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
So why wouldn't we? embrace an opportunity to say to this person, by the way, like, do you know what I love about you? Do you know what you do that makes me feel so loved and makes me feel so in love with you? Because that's a worthy conversation.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
Of course. And I will tell you, I've been doing prenuptial agreements for 25 years for clients. And I usually end up having a very good relationship with the person I do a prenup with because you're talking a lot about their fears, their hopes.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
I wanted to ask this. One at a time. So each of you has your own lawyer. Each of you has your own attorney. You cannot, as a lawyer, represent both people because they have what's called potentially adverse interests.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
Yeah, it's unfortunate. It's an unfortunate thing. I mean, one of the projects I've been involved in in the last couple of months is a website, trustedprenup.com. I worked with a couple of tech people to put together something that's going to democratize prenups.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
Because up until now, prenups have been something that, you know, you spend $5,000, $10,000, $15,000 for a traditional lawyer to draft for you, and then your fiance brings it to an attorney to review, and then they want to make revisions. And it sort of walks into this adversarial process as opposed to sort of democratizing prenups.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
So what we are trying to do is sort of leverage technological innovation, AI, my potential Hundreds of prenups I've drafted, we sort of fed into this to create the ability for you to go online and to create a prenup for like in the realm of $600, $700. That would be a game changer. It's really an opportunity.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
But the purpose of it, as far as I'm concerned, is not just to democratize prenups, which I think we have to do, but to really reframe the way we look at it. Because people come in all the time and they're like, well, I don't know if I need a prenup because I'm not wealthy. And you say, well, you're still going to have a rule set applied to your marriage.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
And actually, if you're super wealthy, like most of my clients, they can afford to buy six more houses. Like you keep the house, I'll buy another house down the street, and then we'll buy another house for the kids, and then we'll visit with them in that house. Like that's actually called nesting. That's a thing. That's nesting? When I was coming up, nesting meant something very different.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
Nesting now is when you each have your own home, and then one home is just where the kids live. And instead of doing a custodial rotation where the kids go back and forth between homes, the kids have a home, and the parent who has parenting access during that time is in the nest with the kids.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
Yeah, it's a very – it's a very – the rich divorce in different ways than the normal general populace. And so that's why we're trying to say, look, bring this – democratize this. Bring this to – let people develop a rule set because especially too when you have scarcity. Like most people can't afford to give away one half of everything they have and still have enough to function.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
Most people are going paycheck to paycheck. Most people are a couple of paychecks off from being in bankruptcy if things don't go the right way. So when they divorce and now we have two electric bills and two internet bills and two, that's something most people can't do. So all the more reason for people to have a rule set that the two of them created.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
Again, when they were feeling positive and benevolent and optimistic towards each other and they were trying to protect you. Because to me personally, I don't know how you can feel loved if you don't feel safe. Like I think you have to feel safe, emotionally safe, physically safe. Like if you're afraid of your partner emotionally, physically, how can you really feel loved?
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
So to me, the prenup is an invitation to A, can we talk about hard things? Because I'll tell you right now, when somebody says to me, well, I would do a prenup, I know it would be – but, you know, that's just going to be a hard conversation. Don't get married. If you can't have hard conversations with a person, you have absolutely no business marrying them.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
I mean, it's good for me as a future income stream. But I'm telling you, I don't think it's a good idea. Like, you're going to have to talk about hard things. You know, and you're going to have to have uncomfortable truths instead of comfortable lies to this person. You know, so I'm a big fan of early on in the process –
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
Having those conversations – and again, it doesn't all have to be like the – like when you talk about your will, that's a hard conversation. Like there's no upside to being dead, you know, like other than being off social media. Like there's no upside to it. So I understand why people are like it's really hard to think about like if I die and if both of us die, what do we do with the kids?
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
Like that's a hard conversation. But – look, if we break up, what would you need to feel safe? Like, would you, you know, there's a line from a Prince song, if I was your girlfriend, and it is, would you run to me if somebody hurt you, even if that somebody was me? And I think there's something really sweet about saying to someone like, hey, if I hurt you, like, how can I still have you feel safe?
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Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
Like, how can I have you still feel loved? Like, I don't think that You know, when I meet someone and their exes are like, they just have painted them as a villain, like with no redeeming qualities whatsoever. And it's frequent. You know, it's frequent people do that. And to me, that says a lot about like the core values of both of these people.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
You know, I think there's real value in saying to someone early on, like, hey, if I hurt you, What are you going to need from me? Like, what do we need to be made whole? How can we both feel safe in this relationship? That's what those discussions are about. Like, throwing the words contracts, throwing the words economy in there, I understand. Like, I think you're totally right.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
There's something about those words. But I think reality can be beautiful. I don't think, like, I don't think you have to CGI everything for it to be perfect. I think it's perfect. I think it's already perfect. There's something very perfect about how imperfect and flawed and frightened we are. And I think there's something really beautiful about finding someone that you can be that with.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
And I don't think I can learn everything I need to know about myself from myself. Like, I think I need someone there, ideally someone who really loves me and is cheering for me and sees my blind spots. And I think the conversation about a prenup, that's what that conversation should be.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
Well, I'm telling you, and I got sidetracked as I tend to do, but... I've done probably hundreds if not thousands of prenups over 25 years. I think there are maybe five people that I did their divorce after they had a prenup. Really? Yeah. I think people need to hear that again. I think that, yeah. So I've done hundreds if not at least a thousand prenups in 25 years.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
I probably do two or three prenups a week. So I do a lot of prenups. Most of my colleagues do a lot of prenups. And I've never asked my colleagues this. But, you know, usually when you do a prenup, you have a good relationship with the person by the time it's finished. It's a transaction people feel good about. It's a divorce.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
Sometimes you finish a divorce and the person is like, oh, my God, I never want to see you again because you remind me of this really dark chapter. But prenups, it's usually a very friendly transaction. It's positive.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
I think it's self-selecting. I think the kind of people who can have a conversation that you need to have in order to discuss and negotiate – and again, there's another term. I don't think it's the right term, negotiate a prenup. Negotiate gives the impression it's like you're buying a car, you know?
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
Like the kind of people who can have the conversations you need to have in order to have a prenuptial agreement I think are the kind of people that are going to be successfully married, period. Yeah. Like there's something about that. I'm not going to talk about a prenup because I don't want to talk about the possibility that anything could ever go wrong with this thing. It's perfect.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
It's wonderful. It's cake. It's roses. It's nothing but romance and sex. And it's wonderful. Okay. You got no, listen, falling feels like flying for a little while, you know, and then you hit the ground and it is waiting for you. And if the first time you ever think about falling, What legal rights and obligations do I have is when you're in my office, like you're already screwed.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
Yeah. And I mean, before I would get Before I would get canceled in the comments for being misandrist or misogynist, I always try to say that the things I'm observing are a function of having divorced thousands of people, men and women. Like for 25 years, I've done nothing but divorce law on a full-time basis. And I mean it on a truly full-time basis.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
You're already screwed. You did nothing to prepare emotionally, financially, you know, nothing. So there's something about the imagination, right? That people, if you're just the kind of person who's like, I don't even want to talk. I actually met, they'll remain nameless, but it was a neighbor.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
And I tried to – every once in a while, I get it in my head that I'm going to, like, try to be a more social person. So I'm like, oh, I should, like, invite the neighbor over for a drink, you know, a couple. And they don't live near me anymore, so I can get away with it now. But I invited these people over for a drink, and they came over, lovely people.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
And I was like,
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
And I thought to myself, if only it was that easy, you know, by the way, got divorced like three years later. Really? Oh yeah.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
And like knock down, drag out, brutal. Both of them tried to call me and hire me, you know, and I will not represent people that I know in any capacity. And I just remember thinking like that, that is such a, what a delusion, like that I'm never going to say the word, like, what are you, my great grandmother? Like you have to say cancer. Like, this?
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
Because if you say cancer at like a speaking volume, suddenly like tumors will develop. Like, are you that superstitious? Like, do you believe, you know, do you believe in Chewbacca too? Like, that's crazy. I mean, superstition is a form of paranoia.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
Of course. Yeah. But I think it's, you know, I say all the time that I think most of our attitudes about marriage have been just handed down. Like, it's just, this is something that, like, marriage, you could be the most, like, modern Bella Abzug feminist person, and a lot of women are like, oh, yeah, I still want my dad to walk me down the aisle and give me away. Give you away? Like seriously?
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
Like you're a C-suite executive at a software company and he's going to trade you for what, goats? Like this is going to be because you are your father's property and now you will be the property and he will give you away to your husband and you'll now be his property. That's where that tradition comes from, gang.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
I've had a few that hyphenate. That's a new thing. Oh, evolutionary biologists do that.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
Most give the kids the husband's name. And again, I don't know if that's a male thing that like men are like, that's my kid. They're going to have my name. I really don't know. But yeah, there's a lot of the feminism gets thrown out the window.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
It eliminates a certain level of confusion because at school, like, to say, you know, like, this is my name, the kid's name is different. So that piece I get, I absolutely get, but I, I also, and by the way, I have clients cause you don't have to change your name back, but you have the right to. And I have male clients who like want their name back.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
Like I want her to no longer be allowed to use that name. And I have to explain to them, you're,
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
You can't force her to not have your name. He's like, well, that's my name. And I'm like, you understand I can change my – as long as you're not doing it for the intent of defrauding creditors, anyone can – I can change my name to Andrew Huberman tomorrow if I want to. Yeah. As long as I'm not doing it to defraud my creditors.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
So I wake up in the morning thinking about this stuff. I go to bed thinking about this stuff. I work six, seven days a week. That's why I'm divorced. I really, really love the work. And so all the things I'm saying are really just my observations. So, you know, in response to that question, I think the world relates to divorced men and divorced women differently.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
It's full-time fun. I can't do that. I can't bench that much either.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
Yeah. They want her prohibited from having her name. And even though the kids have that name. But again, that's that anger thing. Like that's just a pure expression of anger. And I get it. You know, a lot of what I do is sort of helping people get to the core of like what are they really upset about. And that's a lot of what my job is. Like my undergraduate degree was in psychology, my master's.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
I was in cultural anthropology and specifically in the study of death and dying. And then my law degree, I wanted to be a divorce lawyer as soon as I started law school. And I think I used the psych degree as much as I used the law degree because it's so much of what I do is just dealing with people when they're in this very heightened emotional state. Like I'm a fan of faith.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
But just not blind faith. Like, I'm a fan of fairy tales. If the fairy tales inspire something in you, that's incredible. Like, if you say to me, you know, Jim, I love Star Wars. Like, the struggle of the Jedi against the Empire, like, it inspires me to want to be a disciplined person and to fight for good and to, you know, not be afraid of evil and to know— That's a beautiful story.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
56. Yeah, it changes every year, but 56 is the divorce rate currently, okay? So 56% of marriages end in divorce. Now,
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
Every country, the statistics are different. There are, the United States does not have, you can actually look this up online. There's a great, there's like a running tally that's kept. But the highest divorce rates are in, I believe Italy is currently winning. Ireland was at the bottom because basically divorce was not possible in Ireland for an extended period of time.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
Countries that have a very strong underlying religious narrative like Sharia law and things like that obviously have a very low divorce rate. But it varies in terms of – but countries that are –
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Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
I don't want to say, you know, like very modern, you know, where there's been a proliferation of social media, where there is a open information environment so people can compare themselves to other people constantly. Not North Korea. Not North Korea. Great example. Yes. That there is a sense of – because actually even North Korea like has an underlying religious narrative.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
It's just that they've decided that they're – or they've been told their leader is a god, you know. So I think when you don't have – a core foundational religious narrative that prohibits divorce as part of its structure, then you're left to people's desires to some degree and the cultural foundations of it and tradition, right?
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
And tradition, for many, many years, tradition was you stay married even if you're unhappy. And then tradition in the 1970s and 1980s started turning into your happiness is more important than the institution of marriage. So if you're unhappy, you might need to leave your marriage and get divorced. And that's when the divorce rate started to spike, right?
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
So – and I think there's some value to that. Like I – you know, tradition is in some ways like the wisdom of the people before us and they saw things we might not see. And to some degree, tradition is peer pressure exerted by dead people.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
So I think our fascination with marriage as this I found my soulmate and now we're not even going to think about the possibility of us ending even though fully 56% of the time the thing is going to end. Like that's the part I can't wrap my head around is – and again, look at the numbers there. Like let's assume conservatively. that another 10% stay together for the kids?
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
And I think people's self-conception, right, is very different. So I often tell my male clients when we're dealing with, you know, a custody case, for example, which is arguments over when a child's going to live with whom and when they're going to spend time with whom.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
And these are first marriages? First marriages, the statistics for each subsequent marriage, the divorce rate gets much higher. So like by the time second marriage is higher than first marriage, third marriage is much higher. Interesting.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
I know a lot of very happy second married people.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
Yes. And I think there's value to that because I do think as a divorced person,
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
um you learn a lot about yourself through the process of divorce you learn a lot about what you don't want to do again in a relationship and what didn't work for you so i don't do anything perfectly the first time i do it so i think that there's value in in sort of giving something a try like you don't learn how to swim by reading books about swimming you learn how to swim in the pool so that's why i'm a like i'm a fan of marriage even though the the divorce rate is very high
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
It's clearly a very risky technology. One could argue it's a reckless thing to do. I mean the legal definition of negligence is a failure to perceive a substantial and unjustifiable risk of serious harm. Recklessness legally is a conscious disregard for a substantial and unjustifiable risk of serious harm. So if you know something ends in heartbreak and –
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
division of assets and fighting that requires attorneys 56% of the time, and you don't make any plan for that in advance, I would argue that's reckless. You're consciously disregarding a substantial risk of harm, period.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
I don't. I don't know that delineation. I mean, I know that these statistics are fairly closely tracked. So you can find them out online pretty easily because they're tracked by the government. Every time we do a divorce, we have to file what's called a certificate of dissolution of marriage.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
And there was this concept called the maternal presumption, which was around legally for years, or something called the tender years doctrine. It's called different things in different states. But it was around until probably the 1980s, and that was that a child was assumed to stay in the custody of the mother unless you could prove she was an unfit mother.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
And that certificate includes the grade level, the highest grade level each person completed, whether there are children, how many children, the ages of the children. And the whole purpose of that document is to compile evidence. demographic information. So the government for many, many years has been monitoring this and looking at, you know, okay, what are those numbers?
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
Those numbers are not well publicized. I think partly because the wedding industrial complex does not want people getting involved in that conversation. Like you don't want people to really look at the truth of things because it takes away from the fantasy of things. But see, again, I think that's a framing issue because to me,
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
I think, you know, the stars are still beautiful even if you know astronomy. Like, I think, if anything, I actually think, and maybe this is just the way that I look at things, the fact that love is loaned and not permanently gifted. makes it more beautiful. Like the fact that I'm going to die for sure makes my life more beautiful. There's a finite number of sunsets I'm going to see.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
There's a number. I don't know it yet. It might be five. It might be 500. But there's a number, right? And so when you're with someone, that marriage is going to end. Every marriage ends. It ends in death. or in divorce. It's one of the only things in the world that you go, I hope this ends in death.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
Like if you said to someone at their wedding, like, man, I really hope your marriage ends in death, they would be like, what is wrong with that guy? But it's the truth because all marriages end, they end in death or divorce. I hope that yours ends in death. But I don't think that makes it less beautiful.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
I think it makes it more beautiful that every day this person wakes up and decides to continue to be your spouse and to continue to be your partner and ideally your cheerleader and your fan, you know? And to me...
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
The fact that you don't own this person, that they have free will, they have autonomy and agency, and they choose you, not just on one day where you put on nice clothes and played good music and everybody got drunk, which is there's value in that and the memory of that and the photos of that and a reminder.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
But like the fact that they every day get up and continue to choose to be with you like that. And if you said to me that the reason why they stay with you is they don't want to get divorced, That's a terrible reason. I was a smoker many, many years ago. People used to say, oh, you got to quit smoking. It's going to take 10 years off your life. And I'm like, right, the last 10.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
The adult diaper wearing years, I don't want them anyway. You've met a 90-year-old? I don't want to be 90. It's fine. You're taking them off the tail end. Once I made the connection between I feel better, I taste food better, I can run further and faster, then it made sense to me because now there's something real and tangible in the present. There's something that has value.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
So men were automatically second class when it came to being a parent. So it was automatic. It was the default. Now, of course, in the 80s, there was a different makeup of the workforce. There was a different gender roles, obviously, in terms of assignment of child care responsibilities. It was a different world to some degree. But that was eradicated in the 1980s.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
So it's the same – I think it's the same thing with marriage. It's the same thing with prenups, which is let's not talk about what is this going to give us on the back end. Or what are we going to lose if we don't have this on the back end? Let's talk about what can this do for us in the present?
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
What can this conversation do for us in the present about understanding what we mean to each other and what we owe to each other?
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
And the bench even, the judges, have changed dramatically. When I started practicing 25 years ago, 90% of the judges I appeared in front of were old white men, period. Like that was it. It was old white men. And so I got in the habit of like have a short haircut, hide the tattoos, like look like you're coming out of the set of Inherit the Wind.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
And imagination. I think imagination too. I think that – Marriage is about an imagined future, right? Like it's about we're going to build this thing. What's it look like? Like when you and your business partner sat down together, you had an imagination together. Like you weren't just like, okay, what are we going to do today? What are we building?
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
What do we want it to be, you know? And by the way, it never ends up being what you thought it would be. It turns into something completely different. There was no premonition. I mean, that's a very different scenario. But I don't think it's really even that different. I think that, you know, if you want to make God laugh, tell him your plans.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
Like, I think the best thing is this vague idea of like, what do we want to do? I don't know. We want to do something exciting together. I don't know exactly what it's going to look like. I think this is the loose structure, but I don't know exactly what it is. Like, you know, you and I are friends. Like, we didn't talk about what we're going to talk about today. Right.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
You know, we talked a dozen times, but we didn't go, well, Cecil, what should we talk about? Why? Because I think if we did, it wouldn't be authentic. Like, there's something so much better about, like, yeah, we want to have a good conversation. something of value, something we'll both enjoy and then maybe the people watching would enjoy, you know? So that's so much better.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
And I think that's what you're doing with a prenup or with a marriage is you're imagining a future together. Okay, what does it look like?
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
Like look like you are what – because you've got a conservative old man as your judge. That is not the makeup of the bench anymore. The bench now is as diverse as the people that it serves. So one of the things, though, that I tell my male clients is even though that maternal presumption is gone, women fight harder for custody than men do. Really?
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
And also markers, like markers of... Look, you spend so much time, one of the reasons I consume so much of what you put out there is I like to know the markers before I have the problem. Like, I like to know, like, what are the things, what are the, you know, measure what matters, right? Like, I want to look at what has changed and then what can I do to adjust at that point?
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
And I think relationships, it's the same thing. Like by the time you're in my office, it's too late. Like it is so much harder to take a broken relationship and try to make it good again than it is to take a good relationship and keep it good and keep it strong. Like it's so much harder to gain a bunch of weight and then try to lose all of it than it is to maintain a healthy body mass.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
Like it's just easier. So I think the same concept applies, which is be honest with yourself. About what it is we're moving towards and what it is we're building and how do we stay at this place? I don't like to just have – it's not just about the opt-outs. Like, OK, if we're split up, we're not going to have to hire lawyers and we're not going to have to go through the court system.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
We're going to know what the rules are. There's value to that. Right. But there's also tremendous value to the conversation about what do we owe each other? What are we bringing to this?
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
Because that's where the economy piece of it comes in, which is, you know, and this is the part where it's so laden with gender stuff and it's laden that no one wants to talk about it or it doesn't feel safe to talk about or to talk about it honestly. Hence 56%. Yeah, I think so. I think we are poorer for that dishonesty because I think – I understand it's an uncomfortable truth.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
I understand that it's difficult to say like, yeah, I don't know. There's something in me that wants it this way. Like I don't know what it is. I don't know if it's biology. I don't know if it's hormones. I don't know what – Like, this is important to me. Like, yeah, I want to have a fulfilling sexual relationship with you, but we want different things sexually. Like, I want frequency.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
You want, you know, you want intensity. Like, whatever it might be. Like, the male sex drive, the female sex drive, like, they're not the same. Hormonally, they're not the same. So is it okay to have a conversation about, hey, if we're marrying each other, we have a sexual relationship usually. And so where it's at right now is good, I'd imagine. So how do we know when we're slipping off baseline?
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
And how do we know where – and by the way, how do we know when we slip off baseline it's not a sign of disaster, right? Like if I'm eight years old and my eyesight starts to get really bad, it's probably more alarming – Then if I'm 52 and now I need reading glasses, like these are more normal things, right?
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
So why not say like, hey, I'm not saying the amount of sex we're having when we're dating or engaged is the baseline. And if we ever slip off of that, it means that the relationship's in trouble.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
They can. Money for sure. Sex, they can. And I think the overall conversation that should surround prenups and the reason why I think people who get prenups in my observation are less likely to get divorced – is at the front of this thing, you are having conversations about what do we owe each other? What do we expect from each other? What is meaningful to us about each other?
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
I'd love to say to you that it's because the maternal instinct and bond is so strong that women just care about their kids and they want custody. I don't really believe it's that. I think it's the following. If you and I just met in normal life, right, like we're just out at a bar and I sit up and you say, so Jim, tell me about yourself. And I say, well, I'm divorced. My kids live with their mom.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
What value do you bring to my life? Like, why can we do that in any other relationship? Like if right now, you as my friend, Someone said, why do you like Andrew Huberman as a friend? I could run off a list of things. He's super interesting. He's super interested. He knows a lot of cool workout stuff. He's a lot of fun to hang out with. He eats the same way that I do, like kind of boring.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
He doesn't drink just like me so we can hang out. I don't feel weird because I'm not drinking because he's not either. Like, there's a whole list of stuff I could say.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
But, you know, we're interested. We're interesting. Our friendship makes sense, right? So... Why? And by the way, isn't it lovely to hear what someone likes about you? Like, I think it's one of the nicest things in the world when somebody says, you know what I like about you, Jim? I'm all ears. Tell me, you know? Or if someone who I love and trust and know, like, I know you're my friend.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
So if you called me and you said, you know, Jim, can I give you some constructive feedback? Like something I think you're doing that's getting in your own way? Dude, I would be all ears. I would be all ears. I would want to hear that.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
Yeah, it's turning client privilege. I can't bring it up. But yeah, I mean, I think there's something – that's an event in a couple's life, right? So why in this romantic context – Would you squander the opportunity to have that conversation? Here's what you bring to my life. Here's how you make me feel. Here's when I feel the most loved. Here's when I feel not as loved by you.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
I mean, there is value to that.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
No, because what's amazing about a prenup is a prenup is not filed anywhere. It's just you have one and you're safe. The lawyer has one and they're safe. It's a contract.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
No, NDAs are fluid because NDAs are a relatively new construct and they haven't really been tested. Just like non-competes, there was a period of time where non-competes were like they were overly broad and they weren't worth the paper they were printed on. And then people tried to tailor them.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
And now, you know, non-competes that are specific as to geography and duration, like, you know, the court system, the living law fails. figures out, okay, here's how we have to tweak it. Prenups, the same thing happened. There was a lot of prenups back in the day used to get tossed out.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
But for the 25 years I've been practicing, trust me, I've had a couple of prenups I've tried to set aside and I've been unsuccessful and I'm a good lawyer, but it's very hard to set aside a properly drafted prenup, you know? And I think that that's a good thing because again, The framing needs to change, which is everyone has a prenup.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
It's either written by the government and subject to change by the government without notice to you, and then you can't opt out of the new rule set, or it's one that you and your partner draft together.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
I see them every other weekend and once a week for dinner. He would go, okay, cool. Jim's a divorced guy. You know, he's working. He does his thing. I'm a woman, and I say I have two kids. They live with their father. I see them every other weekend. You go, what is wrong with this one? Is she on substance use issues, mental health issues? Like why does he have custody of the kids?
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
You feel the vibe off of them.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
Yeah, I think I've always said that the most dangerous lies are the lies we tell ourselves. And I say in my book that all marriage problems stem from two underlying problems. We don't know what we want, and we don't know how to express what we want, even if we know what we want. We don't know how to express it to our partner.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
And I think those are two really different but deeply correlated problems. I think one of the great mistakes we make is I think we fall in love very fast in what we call love, right? I'm fuzzy on the whole love concept because a lot of what's described as love is like something that, you know, was designed in the 1950s to sell shampoo, right?
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
Like I don't – this idea of like you meet this one person and then that person, you're going to be your soulmate. Like whoever created the term soulmate, I owe them a tremendous amount of money.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
Yeah, like my beshirt, my fate, right?
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
But even even if you were to say, OK, this is person has been selected by an omnipotent creator deity, that's at least more reasonable than saying I've met this one person and they are now going to be the best friend, best co-parent, best roommate, best travel partner, best sexual partner, best confidant, best financial partner. Wait, all of those? Like, they're going to check all of those?
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
And they happen to live three miles from you? Like, and go to the same coffee shop in a world of 8 billion people? Like, what are the odds? Like, I would definitely believe in God if that's the reality. But the truth is, I don't think it's like that. I think it's a combination of pheromones and it's a combination of dopamine. And look, like, I get it. Like, I get it. I get it.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
But why do we have to look at it like that? Those early days of a relationship where you – look, we've both been in love. We've both been in a romantic relationship where just the person brushes up next to you or the scent of them hits you and it's like an electric shock through you. It's magic. It's just the greatest drug in the world. And you – but if that stayed –
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
Why doesn't she have custody of her kids? So there is an element – of how motherhood is perceived as an identity, even for a working woman, that it's like if you don't have your kids on a full-time or close to full-time basis, there's this perception. So that infuses, that changes the way that women are in custody litigation. That's a huge piece of it. On the other side of things...
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
forever, you would never get anything done. Like civilization would perish because we would all just want to sit there smelling someone's hair all day. Like we would just want to be around each other all day. And by the way, not just how we feel about them, how they make us feel about ourselves. Like why do you think affairs are so intoxicating?
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
Because you've been in this relationship with this person and they don't even see you anymore and you don't even see them anymore. And then you meet this other person and they're like, you're fascinating. You're brilliant. You're handsome. And all of a sudden you start to feel brilliant and handsome again. Why? Because you observed, right?
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
Like you're seeing yourself through the lens of this person's gaze.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
Well, her book, Redefining Infidelity, like all of her writing, she and I were on a panel together some years ago. And I mean, I think she's a brilliant, brilliant mind. And she has an insight into the nature of infidelity and human relationships, romantic relationships. But again, she's saying the quiet part out loud. And again, I don't think she's not a romantic.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
I don't think that she doesn't believe in love. Like when someone says to me, well, do you believe in love? It's like, do you believe in oxygen? Like it's all around me. Like love's all around me. It's everywhere.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
Yes, because— With the same person. Yes, because I've seen it, just like you have. It's just—it's a rare and special thing. You know, one of the things I've said before, and I get pilloried for it every time I say it because people want to misinterpret it intentionally, is that marriage is like the lottery. You are probably not going to win.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
But if you win, what you win is so good that you might as well buy a ticket. Like, give it a try. Like, give it a shot. Again, with a prenup, then your downside is controlled to some degree. But I am a fan. Now, people take that quote and go, oh, well, so you're saying that it's random? Like, you can't do anything to increase your chances of winning the lottery other than buying more tickets.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
Like, marriage, it's a practice. It's work. And when people say to me, like, well, marriage is hard work. Marriage is hard. Like, I don't know what you're talking about. I don't know that love has to be hard work. Like there's so much that we put on love, romantic love, that just doesn't make sense as far as I'm concerned by observable experience.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
If you watch people who are happily married, they're cheering for each other. They enjoy each other's company. But again, are they – Dealing with those early days intoxication to the point where if the other person starts speaking, they lose their train of thought. No, because they're building a life and a family and an ecosystem in the home together.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
And, you know, they have to divide responsibilities. But those two things do not have to be incompatible with each other. But you cannot throw into that equation ignorance and willful blindness, right? to the reality of the impermanence of love and the fragility of love. Like, my career is about the fragility of love.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
Why can't we talk about this fragile thing and treat it like you treat a fragile thing? Like, why not treat love like what it is? It's something that's so amazing, powerful, and beautiful that it sucks the reason right out of our heads. And all you want to do is be with this person and talk in and just what do you want to do tonight?
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
Do you want to go to the greatest concert in the greatest venue and sit in the front row or just sit with this person and like watch something on Netflix and eat some popcorn? Yep, I'll take that. I'll take that because it's the best thing.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
You know, the gender stuff in divorce and in breakups is really interesting and complicated in the sense that, for example, if a man cheats on his wife, he's a piece of shit, can't keep it in his pants, he's a child, why couldn't he be honest? A woman cheats on her husband. She was driven into the arms of another man. She couldn't get, he wasn't meeting her needs.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
I mean, there's so much... criticism from the outside world, so much self-criticism and comparison, that there's something about having someone who sees the beauty in you and is cheering for you, and that when you fall down, their response is, okay, you fell down. Like, people fall down. It's okay. Come on, get up. You got it. You got this, you know? Something about that to me is
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
is that's the best thing. Like that's, that's when I see successful married couples, they're not taking the piss out of each other. Like that old, all the tropes now of like, you know, like women just being like, oh yeah, he's just such an idiot. Like, you know, that it's like cute somehow to like talk crap about your husband or your wife.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
Men as children and women as the most loathsome harpies ever to castrate a man. You know, like, oh, yeah, well, please, you know, she's this one. You know, there's nothing.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
Yeah, and I guess for me, especially in this increasingly performative and curated age that we live in where, you know, we're watching on, you know, Instagram and all these other social media, we're watching everyone's greatest hits while we live our gag reel. And we're sort of comparing ourselves to like this curated version of other people's relationships and lives.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
And so a lot of the time, we're just not feeling good about what we're doing or where we're at, right? Our bodies, you know, like our minds, our success, our accomplishments. Like we're looking at everybody else's curated greatest hits. And I think there's something really valuable about having another human being next to you who's not criticizing you.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
Like even constructive criticism is criticism. Like there's something about having another person. I'm not saying, by the way, that part of being in a good relationship is not criticism, you know, or the ability to like give feedback to a person. But it's like I said earlier about our friendship.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
Like if you know it's coming from a place of love, of like, hey, man, I know you're great and I feel like this is dampening your greatness or this is shining light in the wrong place. Like I think there's so much value in that. But again, it requires these two people to have, you know, a conversation early on, I think, about what do we expect? What do we feel towards each other?
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
And again, you know, to look at that as a – I mean marriage is a contract. Divorce is a different contract. A prenup is a contract. Like we're living in this world of contracts whether we want to admit it or not. So why not admit it? Say it out loud. It's not – I promise it is not going to take away the beauty and the romance of this thing. Like I've been a divorce lawyer 25 years.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
I still get misty-eyed at weddings. I still watch love stories. Like I watch Love on the Spectrum. I literally cry every episode. I haven't seen it. If you ever want to just feel the most affirmed you'll ever feel in your life, because these are people who are struggling with tremendous difficulties and challenges in life, challenges you and I don't have.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
And all they want is connection with another person. Beautiful. And there's something about, like, how they both are like, oh, my God, I want this, like, oh, do you like ice cream? Oh, I like ice cream, too. Like, and it's just, oh, okay, okay, good. Like, we found a thing. We found a connection point.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
This was her journey of self-discovery. Like, you see it in popular media. Like, watch any film, any TV show. When the man cheats, it's like he's a lecherous guy. The woman cheats, it's like, oh, this poor woman. Like, she needed to find herself. She needed, like, her eat, pray, love moment. And so that's, again, like, the way...
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
Like, and you're just watching it on the edge of your seat going, oh, my God, yeah, yeah, yeah, good, good, okay, good. You're doing so good. You're doing so good. Okay, they ran out of things to talk about. Okay, it's okay. Just, you know, and I watch it like I imagine some people watch the Super Bowl. like just on the edge of my seat.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
Like you'd think I had money on what happens to Tanner, you know, like I'm watching it. And because there's something so pure about, I just want to find love. Like I just want to find another person that I'm going to feel loved by and safe with and who likes me and who the way they look at me makes me look at myself in a more positive way. There's something so beautiful about that.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
And maybe you have to strip away a lot of this intellectual crap to like be able to really see that that's what this comes down to and to make it its purest distilled version. But again, I think that's something that's easiest and best to do when you're at the beginning of that journey, not midway through, not definitely not where it's gone off the rails.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
The world interacts with people in breakups and in the clay that builds to the breakup is very different. So how people react to it is very different. Men, in my experience as clients—
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
But I think what you're saying is spot on. So I've always interpreted social media as a form of advertising. It's really what it is. It's advertising. And there's two things about advertising that I think should be said out loud. One is that advertising is the dream life of a culture. Like it's the ideal. It's the dream life. It's this idea of like, this is what a Bud Light drinker looks like.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
You know, they're having a good time. They're with their friends. This is what a guy who drinks this beer looks like. Like, and which guy are you? This is what a BMW driver looks like versus this is what a Hyundai or a Subaru or Jeep driver looks like. Like, so it's the dream life of a culture. And I think there's tremendous value to that.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
Tremendous value to like, what do we imagine ourselves to be? Like, because whenever I'm talking to someone in a negotiation, as someone who negotiates for a living and litigates for a living, like, I'm not just interested in who you are. I'm interested in who you want me to think you are and who you think you are and who you want to be, right?
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
So advertising, social media, it's the dream life of a culture. But here's the thing we don't like to talk about. Advertising at its core is the opposite of therapy. If the goal of therapy is to create a sense of wellness and wholeness in a person, okay, advertising is the opposite. You're not okay. You're not okay. You could be. You could be. You could.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
If you had, you would have, then you would be better. You're good. True. You're good now. It is true.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
But if it, you know, the purpose of advertising is essentially to say you're not okay. You're not okay. You could be. Redemption is available to you.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
You'll be much better. So social media is the same thing. You're not okay. Maybe if you did contrast therapy, saunas, cold plunges, you'd be better. Maybe if you took more creatine, you'd be better. Like you're good now, but you could be better. And so that constant barrage of... of our dream life, our imagination. I mean, again, it's inspiring. It's really good for people in some ways.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
There's a lot of anger that, you know, manifests in very honest ways, like very blunt ways, like very, you know, because men are, you know, Bill Burr recently in one of his recent specials, this thing about men are allowed to be two things, angry or fine. That's it. Like angry or fine. And I used to always say that growing up, you know, I'm 52. Like growing up, I had two choices.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
But to be inundated on a daily basis with you're not okay, you're not over and over again, this is not a normal condition for humans to be in. And that is why I think to some degree, We find that like romantic relationships so appealing because you're closing the door and this person, you're okay. You're good. You're good. I have you. That's what I need. Yeah, well, I have you. That's what I need.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
Yeah, and what a warm, wonderful place to be. Particularly, like it's really nice to be in a warm house when it's cold outside. It's really nice to be in a dry house when it's raining outside.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
Well, when you're living in an ecosystem where information has become a form of garbage that comes at you from every possible angle all the time, devoid of context, and everything is an advertisement telling you there's something wrong with you, why wouldn't you want to slam the door, close the windows, and be with someone, and ideally a couple of dogs, where you guys can just be warm and happy and love each other?
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
And by the way, It's right there. It's so accessible. You don't have to buy much of anything. You don't have to, like, you don't need that much. If you have love and you have each other, you don't need. But that's why I think our society, I think capitalism likes love insofar as it sells Hyundais and it'll get people to buy, like, the wedding industrial complex.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
Like, it'll get you to go out and do all the stuff you do. But, like, the idea that, hey, if we just find another person, that we might realize that this is all the matrix. Like, that I don't need all of that to be loved. And I don't need all of that to feel love. Like, the fullness you feel when you love someone and are loved by them. Like, again, it doesn't even have to be a human. You're a dog.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
Why are people always like, man, we don't deserve dogs? Yeah. Because your dog doesn't give a shit what car you drive or what you do or how – if you got six-pack abs. Like they don't care. Like they just love you. And you love them in a way that is like mind-blowing in that, again, do you ever look at – people are always like, oh, well, you know, this person I'm in a romantic relationship with.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
Like they're aging. Their body is not as jacked as it was or they're not as – do you ever look at your dog and go like – I got to get a puppy, man. Like this dog is old now.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
It's just deeper and deeper. It's like the pair of jeans that you're like, oh my God, it gets more comfortable every year. Like, and like love, that's how love can be and should be. But again, it requires to some degree that that noise of that ecosystem, that constant, you're not okay. You're not okay. That we can figure out a way to turn the volume down on that and turn up the volume on,
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
What are we feeding here together? Again, it may not sell as many cars. It may not sell as much beer. It may not, you know, but that's okay. Like that's the wholeness, that sense of wholeness, like that depth of connection to me, like that makes all the sense in the world.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
Yeah. Always. Almost anybody, if you ask them, you know, genuinely ask them, like, what was a moment where you felt the most loved? Like, their answer will surprise you. Like, it rarely costs anything. It rarely, you know, I was on, you and I both done Diary of a CEO, you know, Steve Bartlett, and we both have a friendship with Steve.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
You're either Clint Eastwood or Richard Simmons. Those were your two choices as a man. You were either like stoic, you know, stony, no emotion or gay. That was it. Those were like your two choices. And of course, it's totally dishonest. Of course, the reality is, is men have a different... You know, we have an emotional vocabulary. It just expresses in different ways.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
And one of the questions he asked me was, when did you feel in your life the most loved? And I instantly knew the answer. And it was the silliest answer and yet the most honest. And I told a story about how my... When I was a kid, we used to get pizza every once in a while. And, you know, pizza's got a certain number of slices. And...
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
I remember my friend Tommy and I were having pizza and my dad, like there was an odd number of slices. And my dad had one slice and we like two young boys just devoured, you know, like three, four slices a piece. So there's only one more slice left. And of course, he and I are both looking at it, even though we'd had like three or four slices of pizza and my dad had only had one.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
And my dad went like, yeah, you guys can have it. And we split that last piece, my friend and I. And a couple of weeks later, I was at his house and ordered pizza. And his father just like ate the last slice of pizza. He ate like more slices than we did. And I remember looking at him and thinking, my dad would never do that. And I remember thinking, oh, he loves me.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
Like I just felt it to my core that like he loves me so much. Like I know he wanted that other piece of pizza. But the joy he felt in watching me eat another piece of pizza was bigger than the hunger he had for another piece of pizza. That is the purest expression of love. And like most people, if you say to them like what was a moment in your romantic relationship where you felt loved?
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
Or you just felt joy inside yourself? Like, God, I'd rather be here than anywhere in the world? The answer is not going to be we were at the most expensive restaurant or we were having the most mind-blowing sex. Listen, you'll have fond memories of all those things.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
But it's some little moment of just connection or just the feeling of like holding this person's hand or like the way that the light hit them at the particular sunset when you were sitting outside together. Like, and to me, like, of course. Modern consumer culture doesn't shove that down your throat because you don't need to buy anything to experience that.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
You don't need to do anything to experience that other than find another person and love them, you know, and let them love you. And that doesn't require a lot of purchases.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
But anger is something men are allowed to have. So when men are sad, they seem angry. When men are angry, they seem angry. Women... My experience of women in divorce is they're much more forgiving in unhappy marriages. They're much more willing to stay in relatively unhappy marriages and sort of torture their partner.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
Well, first of all, there's nothing silly about that example. Just the fact that you say like, well, that silly example I gave, like there's absolutely nothing silly about that. Like there's – I completely got it. I completely was smiling while you were telling that story because it's lovely because what is it? It's intimacy. It's intimacy.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
Like the definition of intimacy has nothing to do with sex. Intimacy is defined as the ability to be completely yourself with another person. And what was she doing there? She was doing what we all do on a date. Those first few days, those early days, we have Spanx on our personality. You know, everything is like, okay, I'm gonna, and again, is it lying? No, is makeup lying?
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
And then when they've decided, OK, I'm out, there is a level of like, yeah, whatever we got to do, we got to do. Like that sometimes to me as someone who does this for a living is like, oh, oh, OK, like you're you're just willing to go there. Like mercenary.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
No, it accentuates the positive, dissentuates the negative. It's not a lie. If someone was wearing makeup and then they take the makeup off, I don't go, your layer eyelashes don't look like that. You're a liar. No, look, you're trying to impress me. I get it. Like, you're trying to be the—but eventually you're going to see this person without makeup.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
Like, eventually you're going to find out she puts an insane amount of cream into her coffee. But these are the things we love about people. It's what makes them human. Is that she puts so much cream in her coffee, like so weird to me. It's ridiculous. But let me tell you something. You still think of her when you drive. You think of that moment.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
Like that was an investment that paid dividends forever. You'll remember that forever. And by the way, it's not a betrayal to future relationships that you fondly recall this moment of intimacy where this person felt loved enough and comfortable enough with you to go, yeah, I'm going to take that mask off. I'm going to show you I like an insane amount of cream.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
I have no idea why I like that much cream, but I just do. Like, does that make me weird? Is that okay? And you're going like, yeah, go to town. Like, whatever, man. Like, I don't even use cream, but like, go to town. Like, be you. Like, that's the feeling we all want is that feeling of like, yeah, you're not crazy. You make sense to me. You're not just like me.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
We're very different, but you make sense to me. I feel understood. And that to me, that's the whole thing. And so if you say, well, this is where we were in early days and that's the baseline. And if we don't continue to feel that intoxicated by each other, that we're doing it wrong, okay, then you've set an impossible standard.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
That's like saying, I'm not in the shape I was in when I was 25, so I must be doing something wrong. No, like the organism doesn't change. It doesn't evolve that way. Like this is the nature of things, is that it's supposed to be what it is. Like it's supposed to merge or evolve into something different. But again...
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
Having conversations about what that is and what it looks like, that's the best possible way to preserve what's best in it. And I think starting a marriage with we're not going to talk about any of that. We're not going to look at any of it. We're just in love. That's all that matters. We're just in love. That's all that matters. Let's talk about any of this other stuff.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
Like that's not – that to me you're doing yourself a disservice. Start early. by creating the pattern of we're just gonna say it. We're just gonna say it. We're just gonna say what we're doing right, what we're doing that hit the wrong way. Like, cause here's the thing, like you and I are friends.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
If you hurt my feelings, if we had a conversation and you said something and it just hurt my feelings, I know you didn't mean to. We're friends. I know you don't want to hurt me. I don't want to hurt you. You're my friend. Like, I get it. But I'm going to probably say something sometime that hurts you, and I didn't mean to, you know? So what do you do? Carry that around?
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
Yeah, just there's, you know, like when, and you look at the history of the marriage and you go, wow, when they were together, like there's nothing she wouldn't do for him. And now it's ending and man, there's nothing she won't do to him. Like she is just weaponized on him. And it's kind of, it used to be surprising to me. It's not really surprising to me anymore.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
Just don't say it out loud because it's uncomfortable to say that to Jim. He's going to feel badly that he said that to me and that it upset me. So I'm just going to carry it around. That's how, if you've been in a long-term romantic relationship, which we both have in our lives—
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
That's how you're having some very banal sort of argument about, like, what's the best way to get from here to Calabasas or whatever. And five minutes later, it's like, you know, I never liked your mother. And, like, you never respected me. And you're like, how did we get there? Like, how long have you had that in the chamber? Like, how long have you been holding on to that?
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
And the answer is since the day it happened. So why not create a framework early? Where if we, something blips the wrong way, like I'm not saying dwell on it. I'm not saying put a person in a defensive situation by immediately calling it out. But like if you, if I said, I'm telling you right now as my friend, if I say something to you at some point that hurts you, I know I didn't mean to.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
I know I didn't mean to. So I'll tell you in advance, I'm sorry. I'm sorry because I know I didn't mean to hurt you. Doesn't mean what I said isn't true. It might be true. It might be fair criticism. But I know I didn't mean to hurt you. I know because I love you. And so if you're my friend and I love you, I didn't mean to hurt you. I know that for sure.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
So why can't we from the beginning – and that's why I like prenups because from the beginning – Let's talk about this. What do we mean to each other? What do we owe to each other? What are the benchmarks of this economy? Like, what are the exchanges of value between us? And as we grow and change, how will we hold on to the part that's most meaningful to both of us?
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
Actually, one of my jujitsu teachers, Paul Schreiner, he's got a remarkable number of chihuahuas. He rescues chihuahuas.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
Well, I mean, if you think about chihuahuas, it's fair because if you glued like 20 of them together, it's still not a great day. Yeah. You know what I mean? Size-wise. Just mass in terms of volume of it.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
I like all dogs, too.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
You know, what you're doing is we're going to do a consultation for a prenuptial agreement right here. I do them all the time. Great. So the first thing that, yeah, you're getting it for free. I mean, that's pretty good. It's usually $850. So what I'll say is the following.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
To understand what a contract does, the first thing you have to understand is what are your rights in the absence of that contract, right? Most contracts, that's pretty easy. Like I'm going to lease a car. I know in the absence of that car lease, they have the car and I have the money. right? So that's a really easy contract because whatever the contract is, we both want the same thing.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
I think I have a friend who was a criminal lawyer for many years, criminal defense attorney, really good one in the city. And we used to laugh because he used to say, as a criminal lawyer, he sees bad people at their best. And as a divorce lawyer, I see good people at their worst.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
They want my money and I want their car. So now we're just trying to figure out what are the terms and how do we codify them? And then we'll come up with what are some things that could go wrong? What if I stop making the payments? What if I drive the car off the lot and the wheels fall off? Like, okay, now we have to start using some imagination about what do we do in these contingencies.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
But at its core, Simple contract, which is I want the car. You got a car. You want money. I've got money. Let's figure this out. And if we can, somebody else will get the car and somebody else will take my money. We'll be all right. We'll be okay. Scheme of things, right? So this is the same thing, okay? It's the same thing. So if we don't marry, we both know that's easy, right?
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
We both know we're in love. We're happy. We're together. We're enjoying each other's company. Now we're not going to get married. What happens? So you suddenly love goes out the window. The whole thing falls apart. I don't think so. That's kind of weird. Right. So, again, first order of business is why are we getting married? Why? Like, what is the problem to which marriage is a solution?
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
Like, why is it so strange to say to another human being, if I said to you, Andrew, great news, I'm getting married. If you said, really, why? Like, why would that be like, what kind of jerk is Andrew today? Like, it's, why? Well, my parents, it's really important to them that I get married.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
And, you know, we're having a great time, she and I, but like, you know, her parents are very religious and they say, oh, That's a good reason. It's a good reason to get married. Like, we do things to make our parents happy or our partner's parents happy. That's okay. That makes sense to me. I genuinely think that there's a valid thing there, which is this is the reason why we're getting married.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
Or I want the tax break that comes with getting married. There's a tax break? There's a significant tax break. Yeah, yeah, on federal and state. You get your different dependency exemptions. You get different schedules of how much you have to make to pay at a different time. Oh, yeah, there's a whole bunch of purely financial reasons to get married.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
Like, again, with a prenup, you can take away the risk but still have all those benefits. You can file married joint returns. You have all kinds of inheritance rights if you want them. Like, there's all kinds of potential perks to getting married, right? There's also certain cultural legitimacy. Like, again, nother
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
And it's always astounding to me because I've reached a level in my career, thankfully, where I represent elite athletes. I represent, you know, people in the financial markets who literally move markets with their trades, people in the entertainment industry. And they are as bad at this as any of us. Like they're as bad at relationships. They're as bad at heartbreak as anybody.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
That's a fallacy. That's insane, right? Just because we went and did, like, 20 bucks, Elvis will marry you in Vegas. And you're telling me that that gives more legitimacy than someone who's got two children with someone who's lived with them for 10 years but just didn't get the government involved? Like, that doesn't make any sense to me.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
But we've decided it's like, presto change-o, you're married. That means now you're a totally legitimate relationship.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
Yeah. See, I want to hear that a lot. And, you know, what if we closed emergency rooms from 10 p.m. until like 5 a.m.? Do you think people would do less risky shit? Do you think people would go like, hey, you know what? If I break my leg skateboarding, sorry to pick on skateboarding.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
If the ER is closed, I won't be like, that's insane to think that people in this dopamine state, you know, intoxicated by pheromones that they're going to say like, oh, you know, like we are legally married. I might have to guess it's like it's the numbers don't bear it out. Like with the divorce rate, what it is, it doesn't work. You want to create barriers, create barriers to entry.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
Like, how bad do you want it? Like, how bad do you want to get married? There's a waiting period. Or you have to take a test. Or you have to whatever, something, some barrier to entry. You have to pay some amount of money to get married. I don't know. Create barriers. If you believe in the barrier concept, barriers to exit makes no sense. Barriers to entry might make sense.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
Again, still don't think it would make that much sense. But to tie it back to the prenup question, so the first question is, Why are you getting married? Okay, what's the purpose? What is the problem to which marriage is a solution? The next question is, okay, if we marry without a prenup, what will govern our relationship in the event that it doesn't end in death?
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
So if it ends by some other reason, either I divorce you, you divorce me, we come to the joint decision that this isn't working, some intervening circumstance occurs that changes the dynamic between us in a way that we couldn't possibly have anticipated, whatever that might be, a medical issue, something with a child. I've had cases where... And these are tragic cases.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
But I've had maybe in a 25-year career, I've maybe had a dozen cases where people lost a child by usually some kind of tragic accident. So kid falls in the pool, drowns, and they cannot be together anymore. Like they are a reminder to the other person of this immeasurable loss that they can't wrap their brains around. And so they lose each other. And it's not anyone's fault.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
Like it's not either of their fault that this horrible tragedy occurred. It's just too painful. But it's just too painful. Like they just remind each other of this loss. They can't ever extricate that from their feelings. Now – I don't look at that person and go, you should never get divorced. Dude, who am I to say to that person, no, no, continue to feel that torturous pain.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
Or, oh, go to therapy and that'll get rid of that. Like, it's not that simple. So if that person has been through that exquisite, unique kind of torture, that person says, yeah, we just can't do that. Like we love each other, but we just can't. Like we have to start over and reboot our lives separately so that we have no memory of that anymore or as few reminders as possible.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
I have nothing I can say to that except that's not a choice I could tell you is wrong. I don't have the right to tell you that. So there are circumstances that can end a marriage that were not anticipated by or caused by either person's malfeasance, right? So, okay, now what, right? So if we know in the absence of a rule set, in the absence of a prenup, what happens if we divorce?
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
So, you know, there were differences in the gender piece. There are differences in the socioeconomic piece. But at the end of the day, it's like it's hurt people hurting people. And it kind of looks roughly the same.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
Well, most people never even get to that step. Like most people never, when they get married, they never sit down with anyone and go, what's legally going to happen to me right now? Like what just changed? You know, like what, like you buy a house, you get a HUD one that tells you the nature of the loan and how much you're paying in interest so that nobody can like claim they didn't know that.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
You get a lead paint disclosure. You get all kinds of things. You get married, you can get a pamphlet. You just did the most legally significant thing you're ever going to do other than dying. And no one told you anything about what just happened. So you've opted out of the title system. So like right now, if you and I buy a house together, right, title controls, whose name is it saying?
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
If it's in your name, it's yours. If it's in my name, it's mine. If it's in our joint names, we own it 50-50 unless there's a contract that says otherwise, right? So there are defaults in the absence of a contract. There are legal defaults. Again, lawyers make a ton of money. over people's aversion to contracts. Like, it's great.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
Like, the worst thing, when I got involved in Trusted Prenup and I told people, oh, I'm doing this thing, I want to democratize prenups, all my colleagues were like, are you nuts? Like, A, prenups are the easiest thing we do. And we make pure profit on them. We can charge five, $10,000 for basically a document that you go into word and change the names. And it's the same one for a lot of people.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
Okay. Or we've done so many of them that we just go, this is just like that one. And you just change the name and here it is. And I can charge you five, $10,000 for it. And if it's successful, I'm taking hundreds of thousands of dollars in council fees out of my pocket because now you're not going to have a litigated divorce.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
It's not going to be a knockdown drag out with whatever the government's current way of handling things happens to be, which, by the way, is going to be different five years from now than it was five years ago. I know that because I've been doing this 25 years and the law is completely different than it was 25 years ago, 10 years ago, 15 years ago.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
It changes constantly because politicians change constantly. So fundamentally. what happens with a prenup is simple. We're creating a rule set together, whatever that might be. And it can be as detailed as you want it to be. So I've seen ones that have very specific things about how often we're going to have sex. And if we split up, what will happen with-
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
Well, what they are is either aspirational guidelines or it is tied in some way to some incentive or disincentive. You're kidding me. Like some penalty. Oh, yeah. You're kidding me. I'm not kidding you. I don't advocate for that. I don't think it's a good idea. But, I mean, the story I tell pretty frequently is I did a prenup defense.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
Where I didn't write the prenup, so don't blame me, but I defended the prenup successfully. Where for every 10 pounds the bride gained, she would lose $10,000 a month in alimony when they split up. You're kidding. Yeah, and a court upheld it. The court in its decision actually said, this is boorish. This is disgusting.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
I don't know why you married this person who insisted on this being in the contract, but it's a contract. You signed it. He signed it. You're adults. You were both represented by counsel. And it's enforceable. Whoa. Yeah. Did the marriage last? No, no, they divorced. Yeah, they divorced. And she lost $20,000 a month in alimony. She gained around 20 pounds during the marriage.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
Do you think that was the factor? Well, he was rich and she was gorgeous. I mean, you know, and he got richer and she got less gorgeous.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
And that's, by the way, it's gender blind too. Like the C-suite executive founder that you're talking about, like female founder. Yeah. They very often don't marry. I know like some people in the red pill community want to say like a pergamy and stuff like that, that like C-suite women only marry like even more successful men than that.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
I have a lot of female clients who I have to tell them they owe alimony. And they're like, wait, why do I have to pay? I'm a woman. He's a man. He's got a strong back. Why do I have to pay alimony?
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
I'm like, because you are a C-suite executive who makes millions and you married the like super hot, unsuccessful musician who has the like, oops, I didn't know I was sexy stubble because he looks really good. Like, and that's, you married the equivalent of me marrying like the hot yoga teacher. Like, I get it. Like, but you know, you did the thing and- Gender has nothing to do with it.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
I feel like I have a PhD in infidelity because it's just – it's part of like 90 plus percent of divorces.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
If you marry someone who earns significantly less money than you do and they have a diminished lifetime earning capacity, then you owe them alimony most likely.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
Generally, yeah. There's a presumption that equitable distribution, equitable meaning fair, is really the law. But equitable is presumed to mean equal. There are some reasons and some circumstances where equitable does not mean equal.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
There can be things called wasteful dissipation of marital assets where a person has squandered money that should have stayed in the marital estate, gambling, having a paramour, a girlfriend or a boyfriend. But again, like to tie it back to prenups, what you're doing with a prenup as a fundamental is just saying, okay, there's yours, there's mine, and there's ours, right?
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
Like in terms of assets and liabilities, which by the way, I think is an excellent analog to the nature of relationships themselves, right? There's you, there's me, and there's we, right? And a healthy relationship There's still you, there's still me, and then there's this Venn diagram of we, right? And of course, you don't want you and me to be subsumed by the we because I fell in love with you.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
In some form, yeah. Really? Well, it's why people I think – You know, mistake correlation for causation. I mean, people all the time are like, you know, why are you getting divorced? Because he's sleeping with his secretary. And it's like, oh, that's a pretty good reason to get divorced. But, you know, then when you scratch the surface, you're like, okay, but why is he sleeping with his secretary?
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
You fell in love with me. Why would we want those to go away completely? But, of course, the we is like, you know, it's intoxicating and you want to become the we more. But there's value in staying you and me and having a healthy we, having a healthy, you know, intersection there. So why not in your structure of the marriage have, OK, yours, mine and ours?
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
So at a fundamental level, if you're gonna have a basic prenuptial agreement, it's just gonna say, hey, we're staying in that system. You, me, we, right? Yours, mine, ours. If it's yours, you keep it, asset or liability. If it's in mine, I keep it, asset or liability. If it's ours, we divide it 50-50. Fair enough? And now we're going into this relationship with knowing the rule set.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
So I get a big bonus at work, okay? If I put it in my account, in my sole name, I've protected it. We also need to have a conversation. Hey, babe, you just got that big bonus at work and you didn't put any of it in the joint account? Like, what's that about? Something going on that we need to talk about? Like, and again, I understand people don't want to have uncomfortable conversations.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
Well, you can have like a series of mildly uncomfortable conversations throughout the course of a relationship. Or you can duck that and then have some really difficult conversations in divorce court. And to me, that's pretty easy, like which of those two things I'd choose.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
So at its core, a prenuptial agreement can cover as many – like people put in infidelity clauses where there are financial penalties if someone cheats. Again, I discourage it. Financial penalties. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Liquidated damages, whether it's a lump sum or a waiver of alimony if you're caught cheating.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
I mean it used to be the law of the land that if you could prove adultery, a person – at that point typically women because the workforce was predominantly male at that time. If you could catch, that's why like the picture of a divorce lawyer with a private investigator with a telephoto lens taking pictures of someone coming out of the hotel. It's like in everyone's mind forever.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
Because, and by the way, people still come in to my office and they're like, I've got him. I've got photos of him coming out of this hotel with his girlfriend. I'm like, okay. Like. You know there's no like good spouse bonus and bad spouse penalty, right? Like you don't get like extra stuff because you were a super good spouse who never cheated. And you don't lose stuff because you cheated.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
Like other than maybe the marriage, you don't lose – like you don't get anything less. It's not like you don't get – it used to be if you could prove adultery – you waived alimony. So if this person cheated, they weren't allowed to ask for alimony. That was abolished in the 1970s by statute. So it's gone now. It's not a thing anymore.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
Again, according to the law as it stands, which has changed dramatically over 25 years and varies state to state. Whereas with a prenuptial agreement, you're agreeing on a rule set. And again, if people want to agree to weird clauses... Like infidelity penalties and things like that. You can do that. And lawyers, we can draft stuff like that. Who gets the dog? No problem.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
And there's almost always this very deep backstory of like, well, we stopped sleeping together. Why did we stop sleeping? Well, because he's unkind to me. Well, why is he unkind to you? Well, because you're totally indifferent to me. Right. And you start to go, okay, the truth's at the bottom of a bottomless pit and we're never going to get there.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
Who gets the – listen, pet clauses, the level of – it was very funny because when the team had trusted prenup, I was the legal advisor piece of it, obviously. And so I was really feeding them so they could feed to this AI kind of all of these prenups I had done. And Ben, who's our tech guy, he lives in Australia.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
He called me up and he was like, you do know like the pet clauses are actually the most complicated and diverse out of all of the things. I believe it. I said, yeah, do you have pets? I said, because I'll tell you right now, because there are people that go so hard in the paint on pet stuff, like that it's like they have custody rotation schedules for the pets.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
They have clauses about what to do if there's a conflict about veterinary decisions. And unlike children, you are most likely going to outlive your pet. And so you have to have clauses in for if this pet has to be euthanized, can we both be there? What do we do with the cremated remains of this pet?
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
You know, if we can't agree on a park or whatever that it's going to be sprinkled at, should we each get half and then we can do what we want with it? Like, these are things that, again, have that conversation. Because here's the thing. If we have that conversation when we are now angry at each other and breaking up, right? When hell hath no fury like a woman or a man scorned.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
Do you think the answer is going to be a compassionate and thoughtful one that honors the relationship we both had with this companion animal? No. It's going to be, I'm keeping the ashes. Why? Because fuck you, that's why. Like that's the answer.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
Like I've had people explicitly say – I had a case a couple weeks ago where we went in and had like – it was supposed to be a four-way discussion, but I was doing like shuttle stuff. So I'm talking to the wife and her counsel, and I've got my client in another conference room. And these people own like 12 properties, like really high net worth case.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
And I said, look, which of these properties do you want to keep? And she was like, well, which ones does he want? And I said, well, why does that matter? Why don't you tell me? And she's like, well, because I want to know which ones he wants. And I said, right, but why? And she's like, because whichever one he wants, I want those. Wow.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
Like, and all of those facts come with a point of view. So when you do what I do for a living, which is, you know, full contact storytelling, basically, in a courtroom against someone who's trying to tell the opposite story, you find a lot of what you're doing is just figuring out how to present the most persuasive version of this person's subjective experience of their own life.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
And I said, well, that feels like you're just trying to be contrarian. And she goes, well, no, like he's actually a pretty shrewd investor. So whichever ones he wants are probably the best ones. So that's actually why I want them. Now, look, whether that's true, which seems like a fair logic, Or whether it was because fuck you, that's why.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
Like the time to have that conversation was not that moment where we're at odds and we both lawyer it up. The conversation should have been had back in the day, you know, back when there was still an abundance of optimism and affection between these people. And so pet clauses, great example. Like I think there's tremendous value in putting that stuff in there because let me tell you something.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
Heartbreak is hard enough, right? Breaking up cohabitation with someone. Like, I don't care if you're married or not. You live with someone and now you're not cohabitating anymore? It sucks. It sucks. We've all been there. It sucks, man. Like, who keeps what? And, like, even if I keep a thing, like, I don't want that anymore. Like, it just reminds me of you. Like, we got that on that trip.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
I don't want to look at it. You know? Like, and I don't want to throw it out. Because it's like it was special. But I also want to look at it. So I'm going to put it in a box somewhere and hope that someday I'm going to open that box and smile. And no one else opens that box. And no one else opens that box and goes, oh, where'd you get it? Oh, nothing. You know what I mean?
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
Like, and that's, you know, like, this is the challenge of this. But that's why having that conversation earlier, that's the way it is. So for me... What prenups can bind is a long list of things you can bind with prenups. What's important is what's the prenup that's right for this couple? What issues are important to you? The simplest one, yours, mine, ours. 50-50 divide on the hours.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
Yours and mine, we each keep our own, whether that's the stuff we had before the marriage or what. Because even like states like California that have community property. OK, community property, just to give you like a cliff notes on it. And there's a couple of community property states. California is not the only one.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
So when you marry, what you own at the time of marriage is your separate property. OK, and then everything you acquire from the date of marriage forward is presumed to be marital property. You're one person in the eyes of the law. So if you buy your wife a Rolex watch, you bought yourself one half of a Rolex watch. It doesn't matter. Title is irrelevant.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
If you win the lottery, she won half the lottery. So that's how it works in the absence of a prenuptial agreement. Community property is after a certain period of time, and that period of time varies from state to state. California is seven years. Once you hit that benchmark, all the separate property is now marital property. You're considered like fully married.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
You're one person in the eyes of the law. All the mine becomes ours. All the mine becomes ours. So the you and the me both becomes part of the we. Now, in theory... The legislative intent, okay, was, yeah, after a certain number of years, you're like the tree that's grown in the way that now it's inextricably. There's no more you and me. There's just we, right? Love that idea. Love that idea.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
Cool. Like very romantic concept, right? In reality, do you know what it did? It spiked the divorce rate at six and a half years. Because why? Because six and a half years, honeymoon's over. Like that intoxication's passed. You know, that in early days intoxication's passed. The creamer is no longer like, look at which creamer she uses. It's like, Jesus Christ, you need that much creamer.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
Like, I got to go buy more creamer now. I don't destroy my story, man.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
No, you were still speaking of it fondly.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
If I don't bring a little black cloud to the conversation.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
I love that. And by the way, all the more reason why it's not silly or stupid. It's incredible. That's an incredible thing, you know? And we all have those things. If we're being honest, in every relationship we've ever had, in every single one, Nina, my girlfriend in high school, loved Skid Row. She loved the band Skid Row. She was madly in love with Sebastian Bach from Skid Row.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
And I was so jealous because I looked absolutely nothing like him. And I just remember that about her, that she had a poster of Skid Row on her wall. Like, Years ago, that was like she's a mother of two, like she's, you know, but I still remember very fondly, like sort of like being so insecure about Sebastian Bach from Skid Row and her like kind of reassuring me like, oh, that's OK.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
I think you're much more handsome than him. And me being like, that is so not true. He's so good looking. But like we all have those memories of every single no matter how short the relationship was, we have a memory like that. And many of them, it's been eclipsed by the shit that happened at the end, the negative stuff that happened at the end. And by the way, that's another good reason.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
To control that downside. Because you can destroy 20 years of amazing, beautiful memories with six months of litigation. All you're going to remember is that last six months. Like, that's it. Like, whoever said that money can't buy love, you know, they didn't know. It's like a restaurant. The check comes at the end. Like that's when you got to pay the bills at the end, right?
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
If you do it the old fashioned way, which is we're just going to submit ourselves to a game that we don't know the rule set of. And then when it's ending, we're going to let lawyers just go at each other. Or we're going to rely on the hope that we won't use the adversarial system and we'll be able to sit across each other from a table with a mediator and hold hands and sing Kumbaya.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
Another great reason to have a prenup because, look, I have an ex-wife. I've been divorced for 20 years. She's been remarried for 15. Like, she's a wonderful person. She's a friend. I care deeply about her. She will always be. There's a lot of people I love I wouldn't want to be married to. And she would describe me that way. She'd be like, I love Jim. He's a great guy. He's a great ex-husband.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
I'm a much better ex-husband than I am husband. Totally different skill set. Totally different resume. I'm an excellent ex-husband. I do not have the patience to be a good husband, but I have the patience to be a good ex-husband. I can be a great co-parent, too. I'm a really good father. You know, you don't have to be a great husband to be a great father. It's a different skill set.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
Like, just because you cook doesn't mean you can farm. Those are two different things. Yes, they both deal with food, but they're two totally different skill sets. So fundamentally, I think how things end very often impacts your perception and memory of the entire thing. And you as the brain scientist would be able to tell me why that works in terms of what actually imprints on us.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
But I believe, and I'm sure there's some chemical reason for it, Pain.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
The truth is divorce of the ugly kind is trauma. Period. Like, I am involved in a tremendous amount of trauma. Trauma for each of the parties, trauma for their children. Like, it's a tremendous trauma. And it does not have to be. Like, but here's the problem. No one comes into my office and sits down in front of me and says – I want this to be complicated and expensive and awful.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
I want it to last a really long time. I want to put your kids through college instead of mine. And I just, I want it to just be just miserable. I want it to be a shit show. Everybody comes in and says the same thing. I want to be fair. I just want to be fair. I want this over with quickly, and I want to be fair.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
Problem is, their definition of fair and their spouse's definition of fair are completely different. Completely different. And what they think they owe each other is completely different. And now... You both got guns on each other. You both hired lawyers. And I've argued both sides of every single issue you could argue in a divorce. I have argued both sides, probably in front of the same judges.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
I've had days where in front of the same judge, I argue complete opposite positions on different cases. Because that's the nature of our job, right? And a weapon in the hands of a virtuous person protects. And a weapon in the hands of the villain causes tremendous harm. But the weapon is neutral. Like, and I'm the weapon. Like, and there's plenty of me out there. And we get paid by the hour.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
And we get paid whether we win or lose, by the way. Like personal injury lawyers, everything has no fee unless we recover for you.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
Business is good. Business is really good. And the truth is like I don't need – to make it rain just because I sell umbrellas. Like I'm not at a bar saying to people like, hey man, you could do better than her. Like I don't need to, like people are doing a fine job of fucking their relationships up all by themselves. No, you're the love guy. Yeah.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
Oh, well I happen to be, but even my colleagues, like we're not cheering for divorce any more than an oncologist is cheering for cancer. And like when people say to me, oh, you make her, how do you, this guy, he makes his living in people's ruined lives and heartbreak. It's like, okay, like my mom had cancer.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
Like I didn't look at the oncologist and go, well, I bet you feel good about yourselves making money on my mom's cancer. Like, no, I understand what they're not. They're there because this exists and they're there to try to do what they can to help. And by the way, like there were so many people that divorced the way that you described your friend's divorce in the way that I described mine.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
You just don't hear about it. You know why? It's the least interesting thing. Like, do you think that's interesting? Like if you invited me to a party and somebody said, oh, what do you do for a living? And I said, I'm a divorce lawyer. And they said, oh my God, you must have some stories. And I went, oh my God, I've got this one.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
So there's this couple and they fell in love with each other and they were quite young when it happened. And then gradually, like they just wanted different things. They matured into different people and they sort of lost the plot of what they were together. And the Venn diagram of their overlapping interests and joys kind of got smaller and smaller.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
So they decided amicably that, you know, they should end the relationship, but they wanted to continue to co-parent really well. Dude, you'd be like, that is the worst story. Whereas if I go like, and then he took a chainsaw and he cut the car in half and he was like, pick which half you want, bitch.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
Like, that's one that you're going to be like, oh my God, Jim, you got to tell the story to this guy. Like, you want to hear that story. It's so much more interesting. And by the way, People who have an ugly divorce, it's so traumatic that it becomes part of who they are. Like, it becomes a lens that they see the whole world through. It damages their trust so much, and they're so wounded by it.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
Yeah, and by the way, like, most human beings, you and I both know, when they tell you the story of their life, they're the hero of the story. Or the victim. Or the victim, right? Like one of the things I like about our friendship is that like you and I are very aware of our own flaws and cognitive biases.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
And so when we talk to each other, you know, like all of the people I like best are people that like reality, you know, and that see themselves with a certain level of reality, you know. And so I don't have to be afraid to like talk to them candidly and blunt. And I think that in marriage, like, and in divorce, if you tell the story and you're like, yeah, I could have done better.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
Like, I really screwed that up. But, you know, I did get this right. And, you know, she's being unfair when it comes to that. Like, when you tell the story and you're not the hero of the story, it's much more credible as far as I'm concerned. And I say that as someone who tells stories for a living, you know, in a courtroom to try to be as persuasive as possible.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
I always tell my clients, I'm like, if you make yourself the hero or you make the other person the villain, like, you lose credibility tremendously. Everybody has to be like a flawed hero, a villain that has some traits of positive to them. Like it's a much more believable real story.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
That's why little kids' TV shows, there's like the villain and the music gets dark when the villain comes on and then the hero is all good and all. But as adults, that's not what we want. We want Breaking Bad. We want antiheroes. We want complicated heroes. We want villains that we kind of feel a little bad for, like the Joker. We get it, you know? Because we can relate.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
Right, because we know that's what we actually are. And by the way, that's what our partners are. So this idea that let's just put a tux on him and a white dress on her and then everybody's heroes, like, that's kind of silly, you know? And that's where I think...
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
That anger that becomes toxic and definitional to a person, it doesn't have to be that way if early in the discourse about love, we just normalize this idea of you're a human being. I'm a human being. We're flawed. We have hopes. We have fears. We have things we got right, things we get wrong. We're going to change. We're going to change in good and bad ways if you want to parse it that way.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
So how do we water the plant? Like how do we keep this thing healthy and vibrant? How do we check in with each other? You have a job. You have performance reviews, right? You have some system whereby there's feedback about what you're doing right and doing wrong or there's a bonus structure so that there's skin in the game.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
Like, why does it make it less romantic to look at our relationship that way? To say, like, hey, it's important to check in on this stuff. It's important to have, like, routine preventative maintenance on this thing. Like, if you said to me, like, oh, I'm taking my car for an oil change, I'd be like, what, you don't have faith in your car? Like, no. What, you have a cheap car? Like, no.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
Like, of course, preventative maintenance makes sense. It's a whole lot better than waiting for there to be a problem than trying to fix the problem.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
Well, sure, what wouldn't feel good about only seeing the good? Like, the previews is the best part of the movie. If you watch the previews and you go, oh, my God, that preview was good. Haven't you ever seen a preview and gone, oh, my God, I can't wait to see that movie? And then you see the movie and you're like, that sucked.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
Like, the only good scenes were the things that were in the preview in that two-minute preview. Right. Like, okay, well, what do you think courtship is? Courtship's the preview. By the way, and if the preview sucks, the movie's really going to suck.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
And there's moments in it that you kind of go like, I don't know what the point of this is, but I'm in for the ride, so let's do it, right?
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
I get so excited when anybody knows that movie.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
Brad Pitt is in it. He has a little scene in it. I think Quentin Tarantino. Quentin Tarantino might make a cameo.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
The two protagonists of the film, without giving anything away, are deeply flawed.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
Like, they're deeply flawed. By any traditional definition, they are not something that you would go, oh, this is the perfect romantic partner. It's actually quite the opposite.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
On paper, there's a lot of reasons to just walk away from this person. And they meet. And there is this instant true romance. There is this sense of, like, I see you for what you actually are. And all that negative stuff on paper, that means nothing because that's not who you are. I see who you are, and I'm cheering for you. And you are so cool. Like, that's the reality. And that, to me—
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
movie still stands up for that reason because it's this it's this sense of being seen with all your warts and all and just being i see you and you see me and it's you and me it's you and me let's do this like you know let's hold hands and walk this thing together and it's a game you cannot win and we're going to play it to the utmost like let's just play this thing through and and it's it doesn't get better than that yeah you nailed it uh you nailed the description
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
Look, you know, while you were saying that, all I could reflect on was a prior conversation you had on a podcast about pornography. Yeah. And the effect that it has on us and our perception of sex, our dopamine, all these other things. Because young guys are writing to me about this all the time. Rom-coms are porn. That's all wrong.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
Listen, I'm not saying that there's not a purpose in having an ideal, a romanticized ideal. But most romantic comedies are not true romance, a story about two flawed characters who, you know, like – most rom-coms are like an ideal, right? They're a romanticized ideal that, by the way, ends before reality can kick in.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
So like, if you think Jack, I forget what her character, Kate Winslet's character was on Titanic, but like, if you think he'd lived at the end of Titanic, that a few years later, she wouldn't be like, all right, enough painting the French girls. Like, you got to get a job, buddy. Like, you're telling me, like most of these movies, you know, these rom-coms, they end at like the high, I love you.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
I've always loved you. I love you too. And then it ends. They don't ever have to live together. They don't ever have to, you don't have to ever see like the actual reality of them at Trader Joe's waiting on the line, like argue
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
went over what you know like he doesn't find someone else he doesn't find somebody else he's not on sitting on the couch scrolling when she's trying to talk to him so she would have expired the age limit right absolutely it's like menudo he like you turn 20 you're out sorry yeah well i think it's not public knowledge so i i think at the end of the day what's really core here is look i'm not saying let's get rid of pornography like i have two sons they're adults now
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
But when they were young, they got to a certain age. They had phones. They had iPads. We had the internet. And I was like, they're going to encounter pornography because it's coming at them in a way that it did not come at me when I was that age.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
Like as I was that age, you had to like trade like a bunch of things you had to get someone's dad's porn magazine for like a day so that you could look at it. You couldn't just log on to any device and be inundated with any kind of kink you wanted to see. Yeah, it's inconceivable. It's not even fathomable and I don't know what effect.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
I mean you know better than I do and you've spoken eloquently about it, about the effect that has on the organism. But here's what I will tell you. It definitely creates in people a – if sex – if your sex education is pornography, you're going to have a really hard time navigating an actual sexual relationship. And by the way, like I've seen pornography and I've had sex before.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
Sex is not like it is in pornography, but it's great. Like, it's still so fun. It's, like, the most fun thing. So I don't know why, like, anybody would go, oh, we got to make it better. Like, sex is great. Like, it's great. Sex sells sex. You don't need to put all that on it. Like, I understand why. Yes, of course.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
Like, you want to, it's just like what they do to French fries at a fast food restaurant. They figure out ways to make them more addictive. You know, I get it. But same thing with rom-coms. Like, rom-coms is an idealized, stylized version of the best part of all of it. Just like porn.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
So, like, if you make your relationship, like, your sexual relationship based on pornography or what looks good in movies, you're setting yourself up for heartbreak. So same thing with rom-coms. Same thing with like I've met my soulmate and that's my soulmate and then it's perfect and it stays perfect. And if it's not perfect, then they mustn't have been my soulmate.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
Like all that is is pornography. All that is is taking the dream life, the stylized perfect parts, showing just that and then convincing people that's what it's supposed to look like. And if it doesn't look like that, you're not having a satisfying time. Like the reality is, is that people are flawed, but we want the same thing.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
We want, I don't believe that the path of like, I'm going to own 50, like you and I both know men who own every car you could ever want and could sleep with any number of gorgeous women, three, four at a time if they want to. And they're unhappy. They're desperately unhappy.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
Like, I represent people who have a net worth of you and I combined times 100, and they're miserable because they don't have love. They don't have this basic connection with another person. They don't have the sense of who they are as an object of someone's love and the worth that comes with it, which, by the way, is foundational. Like, look at a baby.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
Like look at a baby and look at how they look at their mother. Like mom is the name of God on the lips of children. Like there's something about like this thing loves me and wants what's best for me. Like we come out half formed. And there's this person that just loves us, right? And so, of course, we're always looking to find that again, that kind of love and that kind of connection.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
And there are people that find it. But the way they find it is not through fairy tales. It's not through the romanticized version of pornography. It's through realism.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
Like, I grew up, I wanted to be brave. Like, I aspired to being brave. Like, my heroes growing up were from Last of the Mohicans, right? La Long Caribbean, you know? Like, they were samurai, like, in the films, like the Moshashi films, you know, all those kinds of films. And so if you're not scared, it's not brave, right? Like, it's only brave if you're scared and you do it anyway.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
Like, that's the thing that makes it brave. Like, and that's the thing we're not teaching young men anymore. Is it's like, yeah, it's scary. It's so much easier to just be like, yeah, women don't mean anything. Women just, they're disposable. They're like iPhones. I'll get a new one. It'll have different features. It'll be great. Like, you think Andrew Tate's brave?
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
Like, Andrew Tate's brave because he fights Muay Thai. That's brave. That's brave. Like, even ground with another man, bare hands. Let's do this thing. Yeah, that's brave. But having a bunch of women and sort of not committing to any of them, not having being vulnerable to any of them, this is what's brave about. There's nothing brave about that.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
Like what's brave is I'm going to give you the ammo to hurt me. Like I'm going to give you the ability to hurt me. And I'm going to do it anyway. And I'm scared, but I'm going to do it anyway. And that's what makes it brave. And I think that that's the thing we've just lost in this culture. And that's where I think it's so backwards. We go, well, a prenup goes to the opposite direction.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
Because a prenup is you're saying, well, I don't believe in this thing. It only works if you post it. That's insane. That's insane to say that, you know, if you don't—if you take any precautions at all or give any—or, by the way, more accurately, that if you don't trust it to the legislature of your state that you're not being brave, like, that's insane.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
It's brave to merge your destiny with that of another person. It's brave to let someone see what you're afraid of, what you hope for and aspire to. Those are all— Like divorce is intimacy weaponized. Like it's – and I say it as someone who's been in the room with thousands of people going through it.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
And I mean the pain and terror of this person who in hushed tones you whispered to them all the things you're most afraid of. when you trusted them more than anyone. And now they're going to use that against you in a public forum, in a courtroom. Like, my God, man. Thank God I have no idea what that feels like to have done to me. Like, it must be horrible. But again, like, is it worth it?
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
to try is it worth it yes but i think having conversations from the beginning about listen we've got to figure out like is this the kind of person who's gonna are you gonna hurt if you're mad at me if i tell you something you don't want to hear are you gonna throw at me these intimate things i shared with you because if you are pull the ripcord now and get out Like, get out.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
Like, if you tell – I've had guys come to me, successful people come to me and say, yeah, I told her I want a prenup. And she was like, you know, well, if we have a prenup, I'm leaving. That's it. I'm like, okay. Then let her leave, man. Like, because if that's all, if you're saying, I love you, I love you more than anyone in the world and I'll love you forever. Great.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
Could you, we sign this contract? Absolutely not. But then that's it. I don't even want to see you again. Wow. That changed fast. Because like a minute ago, you loved me more than anything in the world and you would never let me go under any circumstances and you never hurt me.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
And now I just told you that there's a financial concern I have about letting the legislature make decisions about our future. And you've now decided you don't even like me anymore and we're out? That's a hell of a jump.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
Yeah, but I mean, how do you reconcile that? Like, if they say, wow, why do you want that? Do you not have faith in our relationship? Now let's have a conversation. No, of course, of course I have faith in our relationship. Why would I want to marry you otherwise? Like, and what is it you're afraid of? Are you afraid that the contract will be lopsided? Because here's the thing. I want it to not be.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
Like, I want to know what your—like, you know, I was having a conversation with the Trusted Prenup guys, and we were talking about marketing prenups. Like, how do you market prenups to people? And they were saying, like, you know, like, yeah, when you talk about it, it deepens the relationship and connection. Okay, that's a very feminine aspiration.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
Like, that's a good way to sell prenups to women, right, is to say the conversations are going to deepen the connection, and there's going to be this sense of, like, hey, we're talking about what we expect of each other, what we're afraid of. And I was saying, well, for me, I think a great entry point for men in heterosexual relationships is to say, hey, you want your woman to feel safe, right?
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
Like, she's with you. She's safe. You know, her heart is safe. Her body is safe. Like, you're going to keep her safe. Yeah, provide her protection. Yeah, provide or protect her, right? So one of the best things about being a man, right, is the feeling of like, I love that. Like, you don't test that theory? Like, say to any man, I can't open this jar. We, okay, give me, look at that. Here you go.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
Like, you know, we're thrilled for that opportunity. We all want to provide and protect. So, okay, why do we not turn the conversation about prenups into how can she feel loved if she doesn't feel safe? So, okay, in that situation where he has more resources than her and she says, you know, I'd like to be a mom someday or there's a good chance I'd be a mom someday.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
So if I'm going to be the primary caretaker of our children and your career is going to stay your focus so you can provide, right, then you're going to get way ahead of me in the race in terms of economics. So we need to figure out, like, how we would deal with that imbalance, right? Who would say that's not a fair conversation?
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
Who would say... Now, look, if you bring it up when we've decided we hate each other and the relationship is over and I've been sleeping with my secretary, okay, yeah, now I get why you don't want to have a fair conversation about that. But at the beginning...
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
When we're still abundance of optimism, we're still feeling positive about this, would any man say, well, you're being greedy, you're being a gold digger? No, you'd say, hey, listen, of course, like you're going to make certain sacrifices and focus on certain things. And, you know, I rarely have ever met a couple, a happy couple, that they go, we brought the exact same things to the relationship.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
She's a great provider and I'm a great provider. No, complementarity is what it's about. Of course, right? And so say that out loud to each other. Maybe you don't want to announce it to everybody and put it on your social media, but you can talk to each other privately about, hey, what do we owe each other? What do we expect of each other? If we split up, what should it look like?
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
What would you need? What would I need? And you can talk about that in very practical ways. And I think that's actually quite romantic because what you're saying is, I want you to feel safe. I want you to feel safe that even if, because I don't, I'll tell you, for me, even just selfishly, I don't want you here because you don't know what you're going to do economically if we split up.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
It's not a good reason to stay with me. I want you to want me next to you because you like me. You like having me around. Your life is better for my presence in it on a day-to-day basis. Not that, well, who's going to pay my rent? You know, I'd want, you know what? I'll pay your rent. You can have your rent paid. Are you still here?
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
Because if someone says, if I say, hey, if I paid you, like somebody said to me the other day, if somebody gave you $100 million, would you still do your job? Would you still be a lawyer? And I was like, absolutely. Absolutely. Would I do it at the level I'm doing it currently? Would I be as stressed about it as I currently am? Probably not. But I would still do the job because I love the job.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
And the answer is, if you had $100 million tomorrow, would you still do the podcast? Absolutely. If the answer is no, stop.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
Right. And so so and by the way, let's take that further. Right. You get tremendous value out of it. And the people who are participating in it, audience and the co-producers of it all get something out of it, too. This is a totally wonderful economy. Everyone's getting some advertisers getting something out of it. Everyone's getting something out of it.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
It's like win, win, win for everybody involved. Right. Okay, so in the relationship between a man and a woman or a man and a man and a woman and a woman because of marriage equality, in a romantic relationship, in a marriage, if you said to your partner, I'll give you $10 million to give up this person, if the answer is see ya, then that's not the person to be with. Definitely not.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
Okay, so I would rather have that conversation early on. Like, if you want to talk about barriers to exit, by the way, you can put anything you want in a prenup. So you can put in financial terms in a prenup that will give this person a financial windfall. I had a client who was a young man in his 30s. He was a Goldman, I can say that. And he was worth like 30, 40 million bucks at the age of 30.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
So he was in the beginning of his career. I mean, he was going to do well in life. That's a lot of money. And he was marrying... A yoga teacher who made like no money at all. Stunningly beautiful, funny, brilliant, like just insightful, spiritual. He was very quant, very analytical. And she just lightened him up and was adventurous and fun. It was very barefoot in the park.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
It was very like he kind of reeled her in a little and she pulled him out of his comfort zone. And it was like a really nice coupling. And they did this prenup. And, of course, they both lawyered up with good lawyers, right? So he hired me and she hired a colleague of mine at a great firm in the city who I have a lot of cases with. And the lawyers went at our thing, you know.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
People like you give lawyers, like, we get hives. Like, you say that and I instantly start, like, you know.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
And so I put in a waiver of any alimony, spousal support. And the other side came back and said, no, no, if they're married this many years, it's this percent. And if it's this many years, it's that percent. So I go to my client because this is kind of a negotiation, but it's with a person who he's been going home to every night because they're cohabitating already, you know.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
And I say to him, like, listen, they want this structure and this amount for it. And he goes, yeah, just like put like five million bucks. I was like, wait, what? And he goes, yeah, like if we get divorced, she gets five million bucks. I was like, wait, if you get divorced in a month because she's sleeping with her tennis instructor, she gets five million bucks? And he's like, yeah, you know what?
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
If we get divorced, I got bigger problems. Like just, you know, like, yeah, just like, you know, I'll know that if she's staying, I'll know she likes me more than five million bucks. So that's good. Good for him. And I thought, you know what? Like, that is gangster in a good way. Like, I loved that. And they're still married. Like, and that was probably 10 years ago, you know?
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
And they're, they got a couple of kids now. Like, and I, in that moment, I remember thinking, yeah, they're going to be fine probably, these two, you know?
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
Like I represent – I have a couple of billionaire clients. Like one of my clients is worth $8 billion. Yeah. You know, it's like Stalin said, the death of one is a tragedy. The death of a million is a statistic. Like, I think if I said to you, Andrew, great news, you've won $150 million. I'm sorry, $130 million. You wouldn't go, ah. Like the numbers on a page are numbers on a page.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
There's just no – you couldn't possibly spend that amount of money. Right. The amount of money that money makes on an annual basis just in interest alone is insane.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
Well, there's no way that $5 million isn't enough for her to be okay. And I want her to be okay. I want her to be safe. It was an act of care. Right. And he was saying, you know, because look, when you marry someone the right way or even cohabitate with someone or even get in a relationship with someone, you're kind of handing them a dagger and saying, okay, here you go. Here you go.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
If you want to, it's yours. If you want to stab me with that, here it is. Here's my soft spots. I'm going to show you where they all are. And I'm giving you that. And again, I think that's the bravest thing in the world. And I think it's the coolest thing in the world.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
Yeah. Well, and you're a romantic at heart. I mean, that's a function of our – like our friendship is born of the fact that I think you're a romantic at heart and I think you're – I think the people who have had their ass kicked by love – and still go, yeah, I'm going to do it again. Let's do it.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
I love that. And by the way, that's the statistic that everybody forgets, which is 56% of marriages end in divorce and 85% of people who get divorced are remarried within five years.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
It's an incredible statistic. And usually I do their prenup. I tell all of my clients, by the way, that if I did your litigated divorce, I will do any prenup for you for any subsequent marriage for free. And I've only had three clients take me up on it. So people are braver than one might think. I think so. I think, look, I think discretion is the better part of all valor. So I think...
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
I'm a fan of bravery, but I'm also a pragmatic human being, and I think there is value in saying, okay, let's dive into this thing. Let's do it brave. Let's do it – but see, again, I think bravery on the front end, which is bravely having a conversation about – What does this look like if we hurt each other? What if we end up like the majority of people? What do we do? Like, what do we do?
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
You know, and there's value in that conversation. Come on, any heterosexual man is going to tell you they've been in a conversation with the woman in their life where she goes, if I was missing a leg, would you still love me? And you're like, what? Where did that come from? Like, you know, like, because what's the person saying?
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
They're saying, hey, you know, like, if I wasn't exactly who I am, like, what parts of me would you have to lose for me to not love me anymore? Like, I understand that question for what it is. I mean, to some degree, it's a thought exercise. It's anecdotal. It's funny. You know, and my response to it is always like a whole leg. Forget it. Like, you break a nail amount.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
But I also think that there's another way to look at it. So I grew up watching L.A. Law. I think it's part of the reason why I became a lawyer is I loved that show. I tried watching it recently. It's up on one of the streaming services, and it didn't age well. But I grew up watching.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
Yeah, and also like some of the plots, like there's gender stuff in there that you're like, oh, my God, you know. And it's also as a lawyer, it's very hard as a lawyer to watch lawyer shows because you're like that would never happen. Objection leading, like you find yourself going like this.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
But I grew up watching it and I wanted to be – Jimmy Smits played this really cool criminal defense attorney called Victor Sufuentes and he had an earring. And I was like, I'm going to be him. Instead, I ended up becoming Arnie Becker, which was the divorce lawyer on the show that, you know, like Corbin Bernson played him. And I'd never imagined that's who I would grow up to be.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
But it definitely created in me this love of the law. But there was a character on the show named Benny and he was developmentally disabled and he worked in like the copy room. And he has a crush on this secretary. And she says something to him about, well, I'm trying, like she's eating a salad. And he says, well, why are you eating that for lunch? Like, you know, that doesn't look very good.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
And she says, well, I want to be skinnier. And he says, why do you want to be skinnier? And she says, well, because if, you know, if I lost 20 pounds, you know, I'd be prettier. And he says, no, you'd just be smaller. And there's a simplicity to that that's completely honest. Like, no, there'd just be less of you. You know, like when someone says, if I gained 50 pounds, would you still love me?
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
I hear that as both A, a thought experiment, B, you're looking for me to reassure you how much I love you. But also what you're saying is if something changed, like what about me can change and what about me can't? Like what would be the things about me that could change? Because by the way, sometimes things change totally beyond our control. You know, the tumor is what made you gain weight.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
It wasn't that you liked Big Macs. Like, so if you gained weight because you were irresponsible in your eating habits versus you gained weight because of the tumor, these are two very different circumstances. But if what the person is saying is, what do you love about me? And what about me could change? And I would lose your love potentially.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
Again, what is that conversation but the prenup conversation? It's what do we mean to each other? What do we owe to each other? Where do we store value in this relationship? And when it changes, not if, when it changes, what changes can we communicate? How can we communicate about what those changes feel like? Because here's the thing.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
If we're having less sex 10 years into the relationship, I don't think that's abnormal. Like, when you're first dating... the amount of sex you're having, and the amount of sex you're having 10 years later with two kids is probably going to be different and probably less. Does that mean something's wrong in your relationship? Not necessarily. Like you're also aging. That might change.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
Your testosterone levels change. Maybe her body changes when you had kids. Who knows? By the way, if you're having more sex, does it mean your relationship's healthy? Not necessarily, right? So the question becomes is when things change, How will we check in about it? Because I don't think let's just pretend everything's exactly the same and it's fine. It's fine. It's fine.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
I don't think that's the answer. I think that's what gets us a 56% divorce rate.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
It's just a saying, but— Yeah, I mean, there's a lot of good axioms. The one I've heard before that I think is similar is that women marry the man they want to spend the rest of their life with, and men marry the woman they don't want to imagine the rest of their life without. That's a more romantic version.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
Women are parsing it in the imagined future with this person, and men are thinking about the imagined future loss. I've spent a lot of time in the room with people who have recently been caught or caught their spouse cheating. And the most common question the man wants to know is, did you fuck him? And the most common question the women want to know is, do you love her?
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
And that says something about value for those two people. Because for the man, it's like, did you betray me physically, right? And for the woman, it's like, do you not – do I have no value to you anymore? Do you not love me? Do you want this person more than you want me? It's more about the value than the sex necessarily, right? And again, I'm not saying all men. I'm not saying all women.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
But I think there is a sense in men – A lot of the men, I say this even in my personal relationships with male friends, that they're like, yeah, like once they find someone that they're like, yeah, I just can't imagine like her not being here. And they marry because they're like, I got to marry her or else I'm going to lose her.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
You know, like I've never met a guy who was like, I can't wait for my wedding day. And I've imagined my tux and I just can't wait. Like it's not, it's just not something men, I don't know a lot of men that like could dreaming of their wedding day.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
Whereas I know a lot of women, again, some of that's cultural that we've been shoving weddings down women's throats and you get to be a princess for a day and wear the dress and everyone's paying attention to you because the bride's the star of the show. You know, I get it.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
And every one of the things you just named are awesome. They're great. Like those are all positive things. Like from the cake to the bachelor party, bachelorette party, to the dress, to the way we're going to have photos taken to commemorate the moment and sort of have this snapshot in time of who we were and who our families were. Like all of that, how could you not cheer for that?
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
But there is also something about the idea that like, you know, most of the men I know, they're like, yeah, we got married because it's like, you know, like that's what you do. Like you make an honest woman of her, you know, like that's her parents would have killed me if we didn't get married. Her friends were all getting married.
Huberman Lab
Contracts of Love & Money That Make or Break Relationships | James Sexton
So it was like, you know, all of her friends, she's been a bridesmaid eight times. Like I was like, it's about time, you know, whereas women very often it's like, where is this going? Where is this going? Are we moving? And again, there's probably a myriad of reasons why. evolutionary, biological, having to do with procreation.