James Sexton
👤 PersonPodcast Appearances
Why is it rude to say to someone, you guys are getting along, you're in love, you're having fun. Why do you want to get the government involved? What most people call love today was something that was invented in the 50s to sell shampoo. All three of you have a prenup. The government wrote it. You think that's a good idea?
Why is it rude to say to someone, you guys are getting along, you're in love, you're having fun. Why do you want to get the government involved? What most people call love today was something that was invented in the 50s to sell shampoo. All three of you have a prenup. The government wrote it. You think that's a good idea?
Why is it rude to say to someone, you guys are getting along, you're in love, you're having fun. Why do you want to get the government involved? What most people call love today was something that was invented in the 50s to sell shampoo. All three of you have a prenup. The government wrote it. You think that's a good idea?
How many other times? Like when was the camera not rolling in the last?
How many other times? Like when was the camera not rolling in the last?
How many other times? Like when was the camera not rolling in the last?
So perpetrators of domestic violence are, in my experience, like they're charming. Like how else would they get victims? Like the way you, you know, there are people that are great at love bombing. They're great at like convincing a person that, oh my God, I would never hurt you. I care so much about you. And then when something happens, doing the whole, like, I'm so sorry that that happens.
So perpetrators of domestic violence are, in my experience, like they're charming. Like how else would they get victims? Like the way you, you know, there are people that are great at love bombing. They're great at like convincing a person that, oh my God, I would never hurt you. I care so much about you. And then when something happens, doing the whole, like, I'm so sorry that that happens.
So perpetrators of domestic violence are, in my experience, like they're charming. Like how else would they get victims? Like the way you, you know, there are people that are great at love bombing. They're great at like convincing a person that, oh my God, I would never hurt you. I care so much about you. And then when something happens, doing the whole, like, I'm so sorry that that happens.
You know, I love you so much. It'll never happen again.
You know, I love you so much. It'll never happen again.
You know, I love you so much. It'll never happen again.
Oh, yeah. I know what you're talking about.
Oh, yeah. I know what you're talking about.
Oh, yeah. I know what you're talking about.
That was a great portrayal of what they're like. What they actually are like. Yeah, good looking, charming, successful.
That was a great portrayal of what they're like. What they actually are like. Yeah, good looking, charming, successful.
That was a great portrayal of what they're like. What they actually are like. Yeah, good looking, charming, successful.
Because a lot of that adjustment personality disorder, that sociopath behavior, that ability to sort of blend into your circumstances, A, it makes people very effective in their professional lives. because they can just go into whatever setting and be whoever they need to be in that setting.
Because a lot of that adjustment personality disorder, that sociopath behavior, that ability to sort of blend into your circumstances, A, it makes people very effective in their professional lives. because they can just go into whatever setting and be whoever they need to be in that setting.
Because a lot of that adjustment personality disorder, that sociopath behavior, that ability to sort of blend into your circumstances, A, it makes people very effective in their professional lives. because they can just go into whatever setting and be whoever they need to be in that setting.
But in their home life, it turns into something that, you know, that's chaos when you have to deal with those DV cases.
But in their home life, it turns into something that, you know, that's chaos when you have to deal with those DV cases.
But in their home life, it turns into something that, you know, that's chaos when you have to deal with those DV cases.
I'm going to be like this now.
I'm going to be like this now.
I'm going to be like this now.
But I was like, you know, like, I'm sorry you live in a democracy. Like, we have a system. Everyone's entitled to have counsel. And by the way, it's not like fucked up people come in and at the console go, listen, I'm a straight piece of shit.
But I was like, you know, like, I'm sorry you live in a democracy. Like, we have a system. Everyone's entitled to have counsel. And by the way, it's not like fucked up people come in and at the console go, listen, I'm a straight piece of shit.
But I was like, you know, like, I'm sorry you live in a democracy. Like, we have a system. Everyone's entitled to have counsel. And by the way, it's not like fucked up people come in and at the console go, listen, I'm a straight piece of shit.
I just need you to help me get out of it. It's not how it works. They come in and they're like, listen, she's crazy. She attacks me. And once I had like push her off me and yeah, she hit against the wall, but now she's going to falsely accuse me of domestic violence. And you sit there and you're kind of, and sometimes I'm in court when I'm, you know, sitting in my clients next to me.
I just need you to help me get out of it. It's not how it works. They come in and they're like, listen, she's crazy. She attacks me. And once I had like push her off me and yeah, she hit against the wall, but now she's going to falsely accuse me of domestic violence. And you sit there and you're kind of, and sometimes I'm in court when I'm, you know, sitting in my clients next to me.
I just need you to help me get out of it. It's not how it works. They come in and they're like, listen, she's crazy. She attacks me. And once I had like push her off me and yeah, she hit against the wall, but now she's going to falsely accuse me of domestic violence. And you sit there and you're kind of, and sometimes I'm in court when I'm, you know, sitting in my clients next to me.
And I realized like, Oh shit, I've got the villain. Okay. All right. Like that was not great. You know, because it's not surprising. Like when people tell you the story of their life, they're usually the fucking hero of the story. Like rarely do they come in and go, listen, I'm all fucked up.
And I realized like, Oh shit, I've got the villain. Okay. All right. Like that was not great. You know, because it's not surprising. Like when people tell you the story of their life, they're usually the fucking hero of the story. Like rarely do they come in and go, listen, I'm all fucked up.
And I realized like, Oh shit, I've got the villain. Okay. All right. Like that was not great. You know, because it's not surprising. Like when people tell you the story of their life, they're usually the fucking hero of the story. Like rarely do they come in and go, listen, I'm all fucked up.
It's one of the few things that, like, stand-ups, I think, do very well. Yeah, we're fucked up.
It's one of the few things that, like, stand-ups, I think, do very well. Yeah, we're fucked up.
It's one of the few things that, like, stand-ups, I think, do very well. Yeah, we're fucked up.
Most people come in and just go, like, oh, listen, I'm wonderful, I'm great. And then you sort of learn progressively and you start to look at their text messages. And also, dude, there's, like, human growth, too. Like, who you were 10 years ago and who you are now. I had a client once who was a custody case about, like, a 10-year-old.
Most people come in and just go, like, oh, listen, I'm wonderful, I'm great. And then you sort of learn progressively and you start to look at their text messages. And also, dude, there's, like, human growth, too. Like, who you were 10 years ago and who you are now. I had a client once who was a custody case about, like, a 10-year-old.
Most people come in and just go, like, oh, listen, I'm wonderful, I'm great. And then you sort of learn progressively and you start to look at their text messages. And also, dude, there's, like, human growth, too. Like, who you were 10 years ago and who you are now. I had a client once who was a custody case about, like, a 10-year-old.
Yes. So bizarre. I can't actually stand still anywhere in New York City without someone coming up going, you're that divorce lawyer, you know? The problem is when you do, like if you're going to be known for a viral clip, don't be wearing the same outfit you wear every fucking day. Because there's no way to camera. It's like your mustache.
Yes. So bizarre. I can't actually stand still anywhere in New York City without someone coming up going, you're that divorce lawyer, you know? The problem is when you do, like if you're going to be known for a viral clip, don't be wearing the same outfit you wear every fucking day. Because there's no way to camera. It's like your mustache.
Yes. So bizarre. I can't actually stand still anywhere in New York City without someone coming up going, you're that divorce lawyer, you know? The problem is when you do, like if you're going to be known for a viral clip, don't be wearing the same outfit you wear every fucking day. Because there's no way to camera. It's like your mustache.
And when the woman was pregnant, when the mother was pregnant, so 11 years earlier, he had sent her all these text messages saying, because they'd been dating for like two months, like, you need to get an abortion. I don't want this baby. If you have this baby, I want nothing to do with it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And of course, he'd been for 10 years a phenomenal father, loves his.
And when the woman was pregnant, when the mother was pregnant, so 11 years earlier, he had sent her all these text messages saying, because they'd been dating for like two months, like, you need to get an abortion. I don't want this baby. If you have this baby, I want nothing to do with it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And of course, he'd been for 10 years a phenomenal father, loves his.
And when the woman was pregnant, when the mother was pregnant, so 11 years earlier, he had sent her all these text messages saying, because they'd been dating for like two months, like, you need to get an abortion. I don't want this baby. If you have this baby, I want nothing to do with it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And of course, he'd been for 10 years a phenomenal father, loves his.
And the other side, in our exchange of discovery, you have to like, you know, share all your ammunition in advance because it's not supposed to be trial by surprise. They sent me these text messages.
And the other side, in our exchange of discovery, you have to like, you know, share all your ammunition in advance because it's not supposed to be trial by surprise. They sent me these text messages.
And the other side, in our exchange of discovery, you have to like, you know, share all your ammunition in advance because it's not supposed to be trial by surprise. They sent me these text messages.
So anything you're going to put in like photographs, audio recordings, video, you have to exchange it in advance. That's called discovery? It's called discovery. Yeah. And it's a process where it's meant so that everyone has the opportunity to like review something, make sure it's authentic, have it reviewed by experts if they need to. Have a rebuttal.
So anything you're going to put in like photographs, audio recordings, video, you have to exchange it in advance. That's called discovery? It's called discovery. Yeah. And it's a process where it's meant so that everyone has the opportunity to like review something, make sure it's authentic, have it reviewed by experts if they need to. Have a rebuttal.
So anything you're going to put in like photographs, audio recordings, video, you have to exchange it in advance. That's called discovery? It's called discovery. Yeah. And it's a process where it's meant so that everyone has the opportunity to like review something, make sure it's authentic, have it reviewed by experts if they need to. Have a rebuttal.
Prepare their case as best they can. You're not allowed to like trial by surprise. Did you order the code red. It doesn't really work that way. Like what you have to do is you have to exchange the stuff. So they'd sent these text messages and my attitude was, okay, we got to get in front of this. Like we got to like Eminem eight mile final rap battle.
Prepare their case as best they can. You're not allowed to like trial by surprise. Did you order the code red. It doesn't really work that way. Like what you have to do is you have to exchange the stuff. So they'd sent these text messages and my attitude was, okay, we got to get in front of this. Like we got to like Eminem eight mile final rap battle.
Prepare their case as best they can. You're not allowed to like trial by surprise. Did you order the code red. It doesn't really work that way. Like what you have to do is you have to exchange the stuff. So they'd sent these text messages and my attitude was, okay, we got to get in front of this. Like we got to like Eminem eight mile final rap battle.
Like I got to go in and like cover this and be like, now tell these people something they don't know about him. You know, like I got to do something with it. So that's exactly what I did. I put them on the stand and I said, you know, you see these text messages. you know, did you send these texts? He said, yeah. And I said, is that how you felt at the time? And he was like, yeah.
Like I got to go in and like cover this and be like, now tell these people something they don't know about him. You know, like I got to do something with it. So that's exactly what I did. I put them on the stand and I said, you know, you see these text messages. you know, did you send these texts? He said, yeah. And I said, is that how you felt at the time? And he was like, yeah.
Like I got to go in and like cover this and be like, now tell these people something they don't know about him. You know, like I got to do something with it. So that's exactly what I did. I put them on the stand and I said, you know, you see these text messages. you know, did you send these texts? He said, yeah. And I said, is that how you felt at the time? And he was like, yeah.
And I was like, how do you feel when you read those text messages now? And this guy legitimately started crying on the witness stand. And he was like, I'm so, he's like, I'm so mad at myself. He's like, and I'm so horrified. And I'm so, like, if she'd listened to me, I wouldn't have my son. But I know I was, like, just stupid and scared.
And I was like, how do you feel when you read those text messages now? And this guy legitimately started crying on the witness stand. And he was like, I'm so, he's like, I'm so mad at myself. He's like, and I'm so horrified. And I'm so, like, if she'd listened to me, I wouldn't have my son. But I know I was, like, just stupid and scared.
And I was like, how do you feel when you read those text messages now? And this guy legitimately started crying on the witness stand. And he was like, I'm so, he's like, I'm so mad at myself. He's like, and I'm so horrified. And I'm so, like, if she'd listened to me, I wouldn't have my son. But I know I was, like, just stupid and scared.
And I'm watching opposing counsel just crossing out whole pages of that cross-examination. Because we got in front of it, you know? But that is, like, what happened.
And I'm watching opposing counsel just crossing out whole pages of that cross-examination. Because we got in front of it, you know? But that is, like, what happened.
And I'm watching opposing counsel just crossing out whole pages of that cross-examination. Because we got in front of it, you know? But that is, like, what happened.
Well, and that's why, you know, when people say like representing good people and bad, like if only we could just put people in boxes of good people and bad people and just separate them. But like, you know, the line of good and evil runs right through the human heart.
Well, and that's why, you know, when people say like representing good people and bad, like if only we could just put people in boxes of good people and bad people and just separate them. But like, you know, the line of good and evil runs right through the human heart.
Well, and that's why, you know, when people say like representing good people and bad, like if only we could just put people in boxes of good people and bad people and just separate them. But like, you know, the line of good and evil runs right through the human heart.
So I think at the end of the day, what you have to say, like if I judge your husband being a husband, your ability to be a husband by your best moment as a husband, you're a phenomenal husband. If I look at the worst moment you've ever had as a husband, that's the totality of you.
So I think at the end of the day, what you have to say, like if I judge your husband being a husband, your ability to be a husband by your best moment as a husband, you're a phenomenal husband. If I look at the worst moment you've ever had as a husband, that's the totality of you.
So I think at the end of the day, what you have to say, like if I judge your husband being a husband, your ability to be a husband by your best moment as a husband, you're a phenomenal husband. If I look at the worst moment you've ever had as a husband, that's the totality of you.
If you shave that shit, you can probably get away with it for a few days. You can blend right in. Maybe that's what I'm planning. Without that, that's what you got to do.
If you shave that shit, you can probably get away with it for a few days. You can blend right in. Maybe that's what I'm planning. Without that, that's what you got to do.
If you shave that shit, you can probably get away with it for a few days. You can blend right in. Maybe that's what I'm planning. Without that, that's what you got to do.
A hundred percent. The best of us absolutely do that. You live and die by reputation in this business. And if you're the kind of person that just exacerbates conflict, you don't last long in this.
A hundred percent. The best of us absolutely do that. You live and die by reputation in this business. And if you're the kind of person that just exacerbates conflict, you don't last long in this.
A hundred percent. The best of us absolutely do that. You live and die by reputation in this business. And if you're the kind of person that just exacerbates conflict, you don't last long in this.
Yeah, and your client leaves with a really bad taste in their mouth because they see that you're just amplifying. Like, my job very often is to protect people from the part of themselves that's feeling brokenhearted and vindictive. Oh, so vindictive. Like, people come in and they're like, I caught him fucking his secretary. I want to rip his nuts off. I hate, like, I want to kill him.
Yeah, and your client leaves with a really bad taste in their mouth because they see that you're just amplifying. Like, my job very often is to protect people from the part of themselves that's feeling brokenhearted and vindictive. Oh, so vindictive. Like, people come in and they're like, I caught him fucking his secretary. I want to rip his nuts off. I hate, like, I want to kill him.
Yeah, and your client leaves with a really bad taste in their mouth because they see that you're just amplifying. Like, my job very often is to protect people from the part of themselves that's feeling brokenhearted and vindictive. Oh, so vindictive. Like, people come in and they're like, I caught him fucking his secretary. I want to rip his nuts off. I hate, like, I want to kill him.
And my job is to go, look, I... You have every right to feel the way that you feel. But let's focus on the issues right now. Like, you're going to have grandkids with this person someday. You're stuck with him. You're going to see him for the rest of your life, no matter what. Like, I have an ex-wife. Trust me, I got to sit next to her at graduations. I got to sit next to her.
And my job is to go, look, I... You have every right to feel the way that you feel. But let's focus on the issues right now. Like, you're going to have grandkids with this person someday. You're stuck with him. You're going to see him for the rest of your life, no matter what. Like, I have an ex-wife. Trust me, I got to sit next to her at graduations. I got to sit next to her.
And my job is to go, look, I... You have every right to feel the way that you feel. But let's focus on the issues right now. Like, you're going to have grandkids with this person someday. You're stuck with him. You're going to see him for the rest of your life, no matter what. Like, I have an ex-wife. Trust me, I got to sit next to her at graduations. I got to sit next to her.
Like, it's what you do. So you have to learn how to interact with this person. And you try to say to them, look, most people, the good news is most people love their kids more than they hate their ex.
Like, it's what you do. So you have to learn how to interact with this person. And you try to say to them, look, most people, the good news is most people love their kids more than they hate their ex.
Like, it's what you do. So you have to learn how to interact with this person. And you try to say to them, look, most people, the good news is most people love their kids more than they hate their ex.
Like most people's love for their children is the most powerful thing they have. I mean, I know we've got, you know, we've got two relatively new fathers here, you know? So, I mean, the truth is that that is a powerful emotion that very often will make you put down a lot of other stuff.
Like most people's love for their children is the most powerful thing they have. I mean, I know we've got, you know, we've got two relatively new fathers here, you know? So, I mean, the truth is that that is a powerful emotion that very often will make you put down a lot of other stuff.
Like most people's love for their children is the most powerful thing they have. I mean, I know we've got, you know, we've got two relatively new fathers here, you know? So, I mean, the truth is that that is a powerful emotion that very often will make you put down a lot of other stuff.
And so it really turns into something where my, our job is to try to bring out the angels of people's better nature. So I always tell clients like in a, in a negotiating table, in a courtroom, um, I'm a weapon. My job is to just go at a person and attack and do that. But before you get there... When the door is closed, it's me and Michael.
And so it really turns into something where my, our job is to try to bring out the angels of people's better nature. So I always tell clients like in a, in a negotiating table, in a courtroom, um, I'm a weapon. My job is to just go at a person and attack and do that. But before you get there... When the door is closed, it's me and Michael.
And so it really turns into something where my, our job is to try to bring out the angels of people's better nature. So I always tell clients like in a, in a negotiating table, in a courtroom, um, I'm a weapon. My job is to just go at a person and attack and do that. But before you get there... When the door is closed, it's me and Michael.
My whole thing is, look, I'd rather you pay her than pay me. Like, stand down. Like, let's not do this. Put your kids through college, not mine. Like, let's figure out how to do this the right way. If I get... I get a sense when I do a consult with somebody that they have any chance that they could go to a mediator instead of using lawyers and they could sit, I'll send them right to a mediator.
My whole thing is, look, I'd rather you pay her than pay me. Like, stand down. Like, let's not do this. Put your kids through college, not mine. Like, let's figure out how to do this the right way. If I get... I get a sense when I do a consult with somebody that they have any chance that they could go to a mediator instead of using lawyers and they could sit, I'll send them right to a mediator.
My whole thing is, look, I'd rather you pay her than pay me. Like, stand down. Like, let's not do this. Put your kids through college, not mine. Like, let's figure out how to do this the right way. If I get... I get a sense when I do a consult with somebody that they have any chance that they could go to a mediator instead of using lawyers and they could sit, I'll send them right to a mediator.
I probably send two, three cases a week to mediators.
I probably send two, three cases a week to mediators.
I probably send two, three cases a week to mediators.
Yeah. Well, there's a lot of paths up the mountain, but the ideal process is two people sit down and they map out what do you want to do with the kids? What's going to make sense? Like, well, you work this night, I work this night, so you'll have the kids this night or that night. Ideally, people could sit down at the kitchen table with a piece of paper and just map it out.
Yeah. Well, there's a lot of paths up the mountain, but the ideal process is two people sit down and they map out what do you want to do with the kids? What's going to make sense? Like, well, you work this night, I work this night, so you'll have the kids this night or that night. Ideally, people could sit down at the kitchen table with a piece of paper and just map it out.
Yeah. Well, there's a lot of paths up the mountain, but the ideal process is two people sit down and they map out what do you want to do with the kids? What's going to make sense? Like, well, you work this night, I work this night, so you'll have the kids this night or that night. Ideally, people could sit down at the kitchen table with a piece of paper and just map it out.
But second best is you go to a mediator. That's a person who's usually an attorney or an accountant who's trained, who knows what issues to talk about. And they walk through it with you and they'll say, all right, here's the things we have to decide. And they don't represent either person. They represent both people in a sense.
But second best is you go to a mediator. That's a person who's usually an attorney or an accountant who's trained, who knows what issues to talk about. And they walk through it with you and they'll say, all right, here's the things we have to decide. And they don't represent either person. They represent both people in a sense.
But second best is you go to a mediator. That's a person who's usually an attorney or an accountant who's trained, who knows what issues to talk about. And they walk through it with you and they'll say, all right, here's the things we have to decide. And they don't represent either person. They represent both people in a sense.
The next step from that is you get two attorneys that work collaboratively, that just don't come at each other, don't try to vilify either side and just try to work, you know, come up with identifying assets, valuing them and how to divide them, figuring out what's going on and just doing it that way.
The next step from that is you get two attorneys that work collaboratively, that just don't come at each other, don't try to vilify either side and just try to work, you know, come up with identifying assets, valuing them and how to divide them, figuring out what's going on and just doing it that way.
The next step from that is you get two attorneys that work collaboratively, that just don't come at each other, don't try to vilify either side and just try to work, you know, come up with identifying assets, valuing them and how to divide them, figuring out what's going on and just doing it that way.
Man, that's a high... They had a bad breakup.
Man, that's a high... They had a bad breakup.
Man, that's a high... They had a bad breakup.
The thing I've got very good at over the course of 25 years is the warfare part of it, like the courtroom. So the people that come to me now tend to be people that have that kind of complex case. And they need someone who knows how to do that particular set of skills. which is why I have all of these amusing anecdotes of, like, chaos.
The thing I've got very good at over the course of 25 years is the warfare part of it, like the courtroom. So the people that come to me now tend to be people that have that kind of complex case. And they need someone who knows how to do that particular set of skills. which is why I have all of these amusing anecdotes of, like, chaos.
The thing I've got very good at over the course of 25 years is the warfare part of it, like the courtroom. So the people that come to me now tend to be people that have that kind of complex case. And they need someone who knows how to do that particular set of skills. which is why I have all of these amusing anecdotes of, like, chaos.
But the truth is, like, the majority of divorce lawyers, it's really just about a negotiation. It's about trying to sort of, you know, work with people in a way that doesn't amp up the conflict.
But the truth is, like, the majority of divorce lawyers, it's really just about a negotiation. It's about trying to sort of, you know, work with people in a way that doesn't amp up the conflict.
But the truth is, like, the majority of divorce lawyers, it's really just about a negotiation. It's about trying to sort of, you know, work with people in a way that doesn't amp up the conflict.
Yeah. You know, it's... That's a deep cut New York reference.
Yeah. You know, it's... That's a deep cut New York reference.
Yeah. You know, it's... That's a deep cut New York reference.
But, you know, the outliers... Like very few people can just like hold hands, sing Kumbaya and like write it down and solve it. Very few people go to war. But you hear about the war because, hey, it's way more fucking interesting. I don't get invited to a lot of parties, but if I'm at a cocktail party and someone says, what are you doing?
But, you know, the outliers... Like very few people can just like hold hands, sing Kumbaya and like write it down and solve it. Very few people go to war. But you hear about the war because, hey, it's way more fucking interesting. I don't get invited to a lot of parties, but if I'm at a cocktail party and someone says, what are you doing?
But, you know, the outliers... Like very few people can just like hold hands, sing Kumbaya and like write it down and solve it. Very few people go to war. But you hear about the war because, hey, it's way more fucking interesting. I don't get invited to a lot of parties, but if I'm at a cocktail party and someone says, what are you doing?
So I'm a divorce lawyer and they're going to go, oh my God, you must have stories. And if I said, I do, there was this couple and they were married and then they slowly grew apart from each other. So they decided how they would like amicably resolve their differences financially and they shared their time with the children.
So I'm a divorce lawyer and they're going to go, oh my God, you must have stories. And if I said, I do, there was this couple and they were married and then they slowly grew apart from each other. So they decided how they would like amicably resolve their differences financially and they shared their time with the children.
So I'm a divorce lawyer and they're going to go, oh my God, you must have stories. And if I said, I do, there was this couple and they were married and then they slowly grew apart from each other. So they decided how they would like amicably resolve their differences financially and they shared their time with the children.
worst fucking story like they want to hear the like no and then he took the chainsaw and he cut the car in half yeah and then he said pick which half you want bitch you know like that story by the way no yeah yeah what is your let's go there what is your craziest divorce that you well i mean the guy and the lady over and stabbed her 16 times yeah fun crazy yeah Fun crazy?
worst fucking story like they want to hear the like no and then he took the chainsaw and he cut the car in half yeah and then he said pick which half you want bitch you know like that story by the way no yeah yeah what is your let's go there what is your craziest divorce that you well i mean the guy and the lady over and stabbed her 16 times yeah fun crazy yeah Fun crazy?
worst fucking story like they want to hear the like no and then he took the chainsaw and he cut the car in half yeah and then he said pick which half you want bitch you know like that story by the way no yeah yeah what is your let's go there what is your craziest divorce that you well i mean the guy and the lady over and stabbed her 16 times yeah fun crazy yeah Fun crazy?
Just absolute insanity.
Just absolute insanity.
Just absolute insanity.
Yeah, I mean, well, I've had ones where like there's a lot of cash involved. So I had one where they, over the years, guy was a dentist and he took a lot of cash. And what he used to do is he used to wad it up in like these round things and then fill tennis balls. ball cans with cash. And then they had a jacuzzi in the backyard and he lined the jacuzzi thing with these tennis ball cans.
Yeah, I mean, well, I've had ones where like there's a lot of cash involved. So I had one where they, over the years, guy was a dentist and he took a lot of cash. And what he used to do is he used to wad it up in like these round things and then fill tennis balls. ball cans with cash. And then they had a jacuzzi in the backyard and he lined the jacuzzi thing with these tennis ball cans.
Yeah, I mean, well, I've had ones where like there's a lot of cash involved. So I had one where they, over the years, guy was a dentist and he took a lot of cash. And what he used to do is he used to wad it up in like these round things and then fill tennis balls. ball cans with cash. And then they had a jacuzzi in the backyard and he lined the jacuzzi thing with these tennis ball cans.
So there was like $800,000 of cash in the lining of the jacuzzi. And I actually had to bring in an expert to testify to the size of the jacuzzi and the size of how much could be held in the tennis cans to ascertain what the value of the money that he had then removed from the jacuzzi was.
So there was like $800,000 of cash in the lining of the jacuzzi. And I actually had to bring in an expert to testify to the size of the jacuzzi and the size of how much could be held in the tennis cans to ascertain what the value of the money that he had then removed from the jacuzzi was.
So there was like $800,000 of cash in the lining of the jacuzzi. And I actually had to bring in an expert to testify to the size of the jacuzzi and the size of how much could be held in the tennis cans to ascertain what the value of the money that he had then removed from the jacuzzi was.
Took it all out. And he was like, what money? I don't know what you're talking about. Wow. So that kind of stuff is like always an interesting, bizarre puzzle. But yeah, I mean, people are constantly cutting shit in half. I mean, the ones that shock me are the people who come in and they've... And by the way, like... Apple, like Apple technology is responsible for more divorces than they have.
Took it all out. And he was like, what money? I don't know what you're talking about. Wow. So that kind of stuff is like always an interesting, bizarre puzzle. But yeah, I mean, people are constantly cutting shit in half. I mean, the ones that shock me are the people who come in and they've... And by the way, like... Apple, like Apple technology is responsible for more divorces than they have.
Took it all out. And he was like, what money? I don't know what you're talking about. Wow. So that kind of stuff is like always an interesting, bizarre puzzle. But yeah, I mean, people are constantly cutting shit in half. I mean, the ones that shock me are the people who come in and they've... And by the way, like... Apple, like Apple technology is responsible for more divorces than they have.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's a real discovery right there. Sorry, shots fired, Steve Jobs. I'm sorry, Tim Cook's gonna like, my iPhone's gonna stop working now. Love your products. Don't do that to me, man. But the truth is like there's, the whole integration of the different devices. Yeah.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's a real discovery right there. Sorry, shots fired, Steve Jobs. I'm sorry, Tim Cook's gonna like, my iPhone's gonna stop working now. Love your products. Don't do that to me, man. But the truth is like there's, the whole integration of the different devices. Yeah.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's a real discovery right there. Sorry, shots fired, Steve Jobs. I'm sorry, Tim Cook's gonna like, my iPhone's gonna stop working now. Love your products. Don't do that to me, man. But the truth is like there's, the whole integration of the different devices. Yeah.
Like a lot of people don't realize like your fucking text messages are coming up on the iPad that your kid's playing with. Oh, wow. And then your wife, Like you're upstairs texting with the girlfriend about like, it was so great last night, you know? And then the kid is like, bing, bing, bing. And mom comes over like, what's going on? And they're like, I don't know, the cartoon stopped.
Like a lot of people don't realize like your fucking text messages are coming up on the iPad that your kid's playing with. Oh, wow. And then your wife, Like you're upstairs texting with the girlfriend about like, it was so great last night, you know? And then the kid is like, bing, bing, bing. And mom comes over like, what's going on? And they're like, I don't know, the cartoon stopped.
Like a lot of people don't realize like your fucking text messages are coming up on the iPad that your kid's playing with. Oh, wow. And then your wife, Like you're upstairs texting with the girlfriend about like, it was so great last night, you know? And then the kid is like, bing, bing, bing. And mom comes over like, what's going on? And they're like, I don't know, the cartoon stopped.
And mom's like, what is this? And all of a sudden there's naked pictures of the girlfriend and she's reading in real time. And this happens like once a week, I get one of those.
And mom's like, what is this? And all of a sudden there's naked pictures of the girlfriend and she's reading in real time. And this happens like once a week, I get one of those.
And mom's like, what is this? And all of a sudden there's naked pictures of the girlfriend and she's reading in real time. And this happens like once a week, I get one of those.
You ever walk into the DMV and go, these people should be in charge of everything.
You ever walk into the DMV and go, these people should be in charge of everything.
You ever walk into the DMV and go, these people should be in charge of everything.
Yeah, I ask myself that question a lot.
Yeah, I ask myself that question a lot.
Yeah, I ask myself that question a lot.
Because sometimes people are so brazen. That it's just like you're kind of- That you kind of go, yeah, like I want to pause.
Because sometimes people are so brazen. That it's just like you're kind of- That you kind of go, yeah, like I want to pause.
Because sometimes people are so brazen. That it's just like you're kind of- That you kind of go, yeah, like I want to pause.
Yeah, I mean, you know, subconsciously I think so.
Yeah, I mean, you know, subconsciously I think so.
Yeah, I mean, you know, subconsciously I think so.
They had the most brutal breakup, like epic level breakup. I heard about this, yes.
They had the most brutal breakup, like epic level breakup. I heard about this, yes.
They had the most brutal breakup, like epic level breakup. I heard about this, yes.
Yeah, a lot of them feel- You know, Patrice O'Neill had a thing he used to say about- Want me over right now. He had a great thing about how he said, you know, cheating- If you think about it, as a man, a man is leaving his home to get some happiness without hurting your feelings. Go to fuck a girl behind a dumpster.
Yeah, a lot of them feel- You know, Patrice O'Neill had a thing he used to say about- Want me over right now. He had a great thing about how he said, you know, cheating- If you think about it, as a man, a man is leaving his home to get some happiness without hurting your feelings. Go to fuck a girl behind a dumpster.
Yeah, a lot of them feel- You know, Patrice O'Neill had a thing he used to say about- Want me over right now. He had a great thing about how he said, you know, cheating- If you think about it, as a man, a man is leaving his home to get some happiness without hurting your feelings. Go to fuck a girl behind a dumpster.
To get a little bit of happiness without hurting your feelings.
To get a little bit of happiness without hurting your feelings.
To get a little bit of happiness without hurting your feelings.
And I remember hearing that and going, but when you spend enough time with people who've cheated. Yeah. And that's legit. They're like, look, I love her. I love her. But we don't have that anymore. Like, we have this, like, we're running a daycare center together. And like, I love her. I like coming home to her. I like her mom. I like her brother. Like, we all get along.
And I remember hearing that and going, but when you spend enough time with people who've cheated. Yeah. And that's legit. They're like, look, I love her. I love her. But we don't have that anymore. Like, we have this, like, we're running a daycare center together. And like, I love her. I like coming home to her. I like her mom. I like her brother. Like, we all get along.
And I remember hearing that and going, but when you spend enough time with people who've cheated. Yeah. And that's legit. They're like, look, I love her. I love her. But we don't have that anymore. Like, we have this, like, we're running a daycare center together. And like, I love her. I like coming home to her. I like her mom. I like her brother. Like, we all get along.
I like all the stuff we do. I like our home. I like our life. But like... I want to fuck sometimes. I had a friend who once said to me, the moment you know you're in a relationship is when you're in the middle of sex and you think, one of these days I've got to get laid. You know, and I think that most married men do not acknowledge that this is correct.
I like all the stuff we do. I like our home. I like our life. But like... I want to fuck sometimes. I had a friend who once said to me, the moment you know you're in a relationship is when you're in the middle of sex and you think, one of these days I've got to get laid. You know, and I think that most married men do not acknowledge that this is correct.
I like all the stuff we do. I like our home. I like our life. But like... I want to fuck sometimes. I had a friend who once said to me, the moment you know you're in a relationship is when you're in the middle of sex and you think, one of these days I've got to get laid. You know, and I think that most married men do not acknowledge that this is correct.
Most married men, it's a bit. Most married men will go, oh yeah, okay. Like I kind of get that. Like the difference, because again, I think there is something really true about, you can't, some of the freaky shit you want to do in your head, blame Pornhub, you know, it's on everybody's heads.
Most married men, it's a bit. Most married men will go, oh yeah, okay. Like I kind of get that. Like the difference, because again, I think there is something really true about, you can't, some of the freaky shit you want to do in your head, blame Pornhub, you know, it's on everybody's heads.
Most married men, it's a bit. Most married men will go, oh yeah, okay. Like I kind of get that. Like the difference, because again, I think there is something really true about, you can't, some of the freaky shit you want to do in your head, blame Pornhub, you know, it's on everybody's heads.
Which is like, you know, here you go. You finish this brutal hundreds of thousands of dollars in legal fees trying to get away from each other and then one of you dies. It's like, fuck. Fuck. That's pretty lucky for him. Yeah, without a guy. He was like, shit, I could have saved some counts.
Which is like, you know, here you go. You finish this brutal hundreds of thousands of dollars in legal fees trying to get away from each other and then one of you dies. It's like, fuck. Fuck. That's pretty lucky for him. Yeah, without a guy. He was like, shit, I could have saved some counts.
Which is like, you know, here you go. You finish this brutal hundreds of thousands of dollars in legal fees trying to get away from each other and then one of you dies. It's like, fuck. Fuck. That's pretty lucky for him. Yeah, without a guy. He was like, shit, I could have saved some counts.
You're not going to do that with a person that then you'd be like, okay, so which of us is going to bathe the kids now? Like that's, you're not going to do that. So I think men, sometimes move away from that kind of a connection with their spouse. And then they say, look, I don't want to hurt her. I don't want to lose my family. I want to chase this shiny object.
You're not going to do that with a person that then you'd be like, okay, so which of us is going to bathe the kids now? Like that's, you're not going to do that. So I think men, sometimes move away from that kind of a connection with their spouse. And then they say, look, I don't want to hurt her. I don't want to lose my family. I want to chase this shiny object.
You're not going to do that with a person that then you'd be like, okay, so which of us is going to bathe the kids now? Like that's, you're not going to do that. So I think men, sometimes move away from that kind of a connection with their spouse. And then they say, look, I don't want to hurt her. I don't want to lose my family. I want to chase this shiny object.
And by the way, like, I mean, how, look at how many half-naked women we are exposed to on a daily basis, thanks to Instagram and TikTok and everything else.
And by the way, like, I mean, how, look at how many half-naked women we are exposed to on a daily basis, thanks to Instagram and TikTok and everything else.
And by the way, like, I mean, how, look at how many half-naked women we are exposed to on a daily basis, thanks to Instagram and TikTok and everything else.
I mean, I don't think that's bad advice. I mean, so insofar as they at some point enjoyed that. Yes. Like if they were if you started out that way and then you said she might secretly be like, why don't you have a child?
I mean, I don't think that's bad advice. I mean, so insofar as they at some point enjoyed that. Yes. Like if they were if you started out that way and then you said she might secretly be like, why don't you have a child?
I mean, I don't think that's bad advice. I mean, so insofar as they at some point enjoyed that. Yes. Like if they were if you started out that way and then you said she might secretly be like, why don't you have a child?
Cheating is one of those things. I mean, I joke that I got a PhD in cheating because you... you listen to people who've been cheated on, you listen to people who've done the cheating, but the people that I'm shocked by are the people that like, they know their spouse is cheating.
Cheating is one of those things. I mean, I joke that I got a PhD in cheating because you... you listen to people who've been cheated on, you listen to people who've done the cheating, but the people that I'm shocked by are the people that like, they know their spouse is cheating.
Cheating is one of those things. I mean, I joke that I got a PhD in cheating because you... you listen to people who've been cheated on, you listen to people who've done the cheating, but the people that I'm shocked by are the people that like, they know their spouse is cheating.
Like they had one of those iMessage moments or they, like the cameras catch stuff, all the little nest cams, security cams, the baby cams, nanny cams, catch stuff. And they don't let the spouse know that they know it. And they're like three, four months in to like, I watched this person having sex with their mistress on the nanny cam. Oh, Jesus. And I'm still sitting across the table from them.
Like they had one of those iMessage moments or they, like the cameras catch stuff, all the little nest cams, security cams, the baby cams, nanny cams, catch stuff. And they don't let the spouse know that they know it. And they're like three, four months in to like, I watched this person having sex with their mistress on the nanny cam. Oh, Jesus. And I'm still sitting across the table from them.
Like they had one of those iMessage moments or they, like the cameras catch stuff, all the little nest cams, security cams, the baby cams, nanny cams, catch stuff. And they don't let the spouse know that they know it. And they're like three, four months in to like, I watched this person having sex with their mistress on the nanny cam. Oh, Jesus. And I'm still sitting across the table from them.
And I find myself thinking like, how the fuck do you keep that? Yeah, you're the sociopath, actually.
And I find myself thinking like, how the fuck do you keep that? Yeah, you're the sociopath, actually.
And I find myself thinking like, how the fuck do you keep that? Yeah, you're the sociopath, actually.
how are you not like just losing your shit on this person at all? You know, but people can do it. Then why do you think? Kids usually or? I think it's, I don't know. I think it's a combination of like, if they say it out loud, it's real. They're in denial. Yeah. Sometimes people come into my office and like, They have a very hard time.
how are you not like just losing your shit on this person at all? You know, but people can do it. Then why do you think? Kids usually or? I think it's, I don't know. I think it's a combination of like, if they say it out loud, it's real. They're in denial. Yeah. Sometimes people come into my office and like, They have a very hard time.
how are you not like just losing your shit on this person at all? You know, but people can do it. Then why do you think? Kids usually or? I think it's, I don't know. I think it's a combination of like, if they say it out loud, it's real. They're in denial. Yeah. Sometimes people come into my office and like, They have a very hard time.
There's tissues on like every desk because people are just having to say it out loud, you know, having to like say out loud, like, yeah, this thing's broken, you know?
There's tissues on like every desk because people are just having to say it out loud, you know, having to like say out loud, like, yeah, this thing's broken, you know?
There's tissues on like every desk because people are just having to say it out loud, you know, having to like say out loud, like, yeah, this thing's broken, you know?
Surprising number of people kill their wife.
Surprising number of people kill their wife.
Surprising number of people kill their wife.
Well, I got to tell you, we're in modern society. Like what I will tell you is a lot more people come back from cheating than you'll ever know.
Well, I got to tell you, we're in modern society. Like what I will tell you is a lot more people come back from cheating than you'll ever know.
Well, I got to tell you, we're in modern society. Like what I will tell you is a lot more people come back from cheating than you'll ever know.
I've never had one where someone was killed. I did have a client who her husband or estranged husband, now ex-husband, ran her over three times and stabbed her 16 times. This is during the divorce? During the divorce. And she survived. Like, this guy couldn't even get that shit right. Like...
I've never had one where someone was killed. I did have a client who her husband or estranged husband, now ex-husband, ran her over three times and stabbed her 16 times. This is during the divorce? During the divorce. And she survived. Like, this guy couldn't even get that shit right. Like...
I've never had one where someone was killed. I did have a client who her husband or estranged husband, now ex-husband, ran her over three times and stabbed her 16 times. This is during the divorce? During the divorce. And she survived. Like, this guy couldn't even get that shit right. Like...
Thank you. Thank you.
Thank you. Thank you.
Thank you. Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you.
16 times run him over three times and she's alive to tell the tale and he's in fucking prison okay so she got 100% in the end she got 100% she also had to get like another kidney and some other things so she lost out yeah I mean with the amount of money yeah she did alright now what role do you play in that
16 times run him over three times and she's alive to tell the tale and he's in fucking prison okay so she got 100% in the end she got 100% she also had to get like another kidney and some other things so she lost out yeah I mean with the amount of money yeah she did alright now what role do you play in that
16 times run him over three times and she's alive to tell the tale and he's in fucking prison okay so she got 100% in the end she got 100% she also had to get like another kidney and some other things so she lost out yeah I mean with the amount of money yeah she did alright now what role do you play in that
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you.
A lot, yeah. I mean, I think, you know, when you're dealing with like high net worth and ultra high net worth divorces. What is high net worth? So high net worth is generally defined as a divorce where the estate is more than $10 million. Got it, got it. Ultra high net worth is over $100 million. Got it. So it's a different level in some ways because you're fighting over bigger numbers.
A lot, yeah. I mean, I think, you know, when you're dealing with like high net worth and ultra high net worth divorces. What is high net worth? So high net worth is generally defined as a divorce where the estate is more than $10 million. Got it, got it. Ultra high net worth is over $100 million. Got it. So it's a different level in some ways because you're fighting over bigger numbers.
A lot, yeah. I mean, I think, you know, when you're dealing with like high net worth and ultra high net worth divorces. What is high net worth? So high net worth is generally defined as a divorce where the estate is more than $10 million. Got it, got it. Ultra high net worth is over $100 million. Got it. So it's a different level in some ways because you're fighting over bigger numbers.
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It's harder to track the values. A lot of the stuff that people do for wealth preservation and tax avoidance, super, super rich people don't own anything. They have trusts that own LLCs that are beneficiaries of. They have great-grandchildren that haven't been born yet own everything, and they just borrow it from them. So that's why they pay less in taxes than a guy who works at Burger King.
It's harder to track the values. A lot of the stuff that people do for wealth preservation and tax avoidance, super, super rich people don't own anything. They have trusts that own LLCs that are beneficiaries of. They have great-grandchildren that haven't been born yet own everything, and they just borrow it from them. So that's why they pay less in taxes than a guy who works at Burger King.
It's harder to track the values. A lot of the stuff that people do for wealth preservation and tax avoidance, super, super rich people don't own anything. They have trusts that own LLCs that are beneficiaries of. They have great-grandchildren that haven't been born yet own everything, and they just borrow it from them. So that's why they pay less in taxes than a guy who works at Burger King.
No, you know, I represented actually, I was one of the first people to represent a trans woman in a custody proceeding about 20 years ago. Were they divorcing themselves? No, they weren't. This was actually a really amazing story. This was like the most manly man I'd ever known. He was jacked. He was like a big dude. And I knew him because he'd actually done work on my house.
No, you know, I represented actually, I was one of the first people to represent a trans woman in a custody proceeding about 20 years ago. Were they divorcing themselves? No, they weren't. This was actually a really amazing story. This was like the most manly man I'd ever known. He was jacked. He was like a big dude. And I knew him because he'd actually done work on my house.
No, you know, I represented actually, I was one of the first people to represent a trans woman in a custody proceeding about 20 years ago. Were they divorcing themselves? No, they weren't. This was actually a really amazing story. This was like the most manly man I'd ever known. He was jacked. He was like a big dude. And I knew him because he'd actually done work on my house.
He's an interior decorator, but it doesn't matter. It's a fixer-upper. He made some significant changes. He calls me up one day. He says, can I come in and talk to you? And I said, yeah, sure. And I knew he was married and he had two very young kids. So he comes in. I'm like, oh, shit, he's probably having marital problems. Comes into my office. I said, what's going on?
He's an interior decorator, but it doesn't matter. It's a fixer-upper. He made some significant changes. He calls me up one day. He says, can I come in and talk to you? And I said, yeah, sure. And I knew he was married and he had two very young kids. So he comes in. I'm like, oh, shit, he's probably having marital problems. Comes into my office. I said, what's going on?
He's an interior decorator, but it doesn't matter. It's a fixer-upper. He made some significant changes. He calls me up one day. He says, can I come in and talk to you? And I said, yeah, sure. And I knew he was married and he had two very young kids. So he comes in. I'm like, oh, shit, he's probably having marital problems. Comes into my office. I said, what's going on?
He says, look, I think we're splitting up. And then I said, oh, man, I'm sorry to hear it. I said, what's going on? And he goes, well, I... I decided I want to live my life as a woman. I was like, excuse me? This is 20 years ago. Like, this is not part of, like, the cadence, you know? This wasn't a thing. And this was not the dude you would think. Like, there was nothing feminine about this guy.
He says, look, I think we're splitting up. And then I said, oh, man, I'm sorry to hear it. I said, what's going on? And he goes, well, I... I decided I want to live my life as a woman. I was like, excuse me? This is 20 years ago. Like, this is not part of, like, the cadence, you know? This wasn't a thing. And this was not the dude you would think. Like, there was nothing feminine about this guy.
He says, look, I think we're splitting up. And then I said, oh, man, I'm sorry to hear it. I said, what's going on? And he goes, well, I... I decided I want to live my life as a woman. I was like, excuse me? This is 20 years ago. Like, this is not part of, like, the cadence, you know? This wasn't a thing. And this was not the dude you would think. Like, there was nothing feminine about this guy.
And he was like, yeah, you know, I've always felt this way. And he did. Sure enough, he transitioned pretty quickly. And like many people who transition, initially, he looked like a guy wearing a wig. Like he looked like a dude who was, you know, he'd started hormones.
And he was like, yeah, you know, I've always felt this way. And he did. Sure enough, he transitioned pretty quickly. And like many people who transition, initially, he looked like a guy wearing a wig. Like he looked like a dude who was, you know, he'd started hormones.
And he was like, yeah, you know, I've always felt this way. And he did. Sure enough, he transitioned pretty quickly. And like many people who transition, initially, he looked like a guy wearing a wig. Like he looked like a dude who was, you know, he'd started hormones.
And when we went to court, the judge actually issued a temporary decision saying that he was allowed to see his kids as long as he dressed like a man when he saw his kids. Wow. Now, if a judge did that now, they'd be thrown off the bench and possibly jailed for a hate crime. But back then, that was considered a perfectly acceptable resolution. Funny PS to that story, by the way.
And when we went to court, the judge actually issued a temporary decision saying that he was allowed to see his kids as long as he dressed like a man when he saw his kids. Wow. Now, if a judge did that now, they'd be thrown off the bench and possibly jailed for a hate crime. But back then, that was considered a perfectly acceptable resolution. Funny PS to that story, by the way.
And when we went to court, the judge actually issued a temporary decision saying that he was allowed to see his kids as long as he dressed like a man when he saw his kids. Wow. Now, if a judge did that now, they'd be thrown off the bench and possibly jailed for a hate crime. But back then, that was considered a perfectly acceptable resolution. Funny PS to that story, by the way.
So it's unbelievable.
So it's unbelievable.
So it's unbelievable.
Ten years later, I'm walking into the courthouse. And I'm standing there talking to one of my colleagues. And I look off to the far left. And I see a very attractive woman staring at me. And I'm thinking, like, you still got it, Sexton. Look at this. You know, it's the tie. And she's just smiling at me. So I'm like, do I know her? This is weird. So I finish this conversation.
Ten years later, I'm walking into the courthouse. And I'm standing there talking to one of my colleagues. And I look off to the far left. And I see a very attractive woman staring at me. And I'm thinking, like, you still got it, Sexton. Look at this. You know, it's the tie. And she's just smiling at me. So I'm like, do I know her? This is weird. So I finish this conversation.
Ten years later, I'm walking into the courthouse. And I'm standing there talking to one of my colleagues. And I look off to the far left. And I see a very attractive woman staring at me. And I'm thinking, like, you still got it, Sexton. Look at this. You know, it's the tie. And she's just smiling at me. So I'm like, do I know her? This is weird. So I finish this conversation.
I kind of do the peacocking thing where I'm like, all right, man, catch you later. And I'm like, I'm going to walk past her. So I walk up. Very cute. I said, uh. Hey, how you doing? And she goes, good, how you doing? I go, good. She goes, you don't remember me. And I said, I'm sorry, I don't. I would think I would. And she goes, it's me, Amy. And I was like, Amy? And she goes, Andy?
I kind of do the peacocking thing where I'm like, all right, man, catch you later. And I'm like, I'm going to walk past her. So I walk up. Very cute. I said, uh. Hey, how you doing? And she goes, good, how you doing? I go, good. She goes, you don't remember me. And I said, I'm sorry, I don't. I would think I would. And she goes, it's me, Amy. And I was like, Amy? And she goes, Andy?
I kind of do the peacocking thing where I'm like, all right, man, catch you later. And I'm like, I'm going to walk past her. So I walk up. Very cute. I said, uh. Hey, how you doing? And she goes, good, how you doing? I go, good. She goes, you don't remember me. And I said, I'm sorry, I don't. I would think I would. And she goes, it's me, Amy. And I was like, Amy? And she goes, Andy?
I went, holy shit. It was that person. It was that person with 10 years of hormones and a bunch of other things.
I went, holy shit. It was that person. It was that person with 10 years of hormones and a bunch of other things.
I went, holy shit. It was that person. It was that person with 10 years of hormones and a bunch of other things.
I guess you could pay capital gains too. But not if you do it the right way. So what happens is these people pay hundreds of thousands of dollars to accountants and tax attorneys to make sure they don't have to pay taxes. But they don't anticipate that when they get divorced, this is just going to blow up in your face. Wait, why? Why is it?
I guess you could pay capital gains too. But not if you do it the right way. So what happens is these people pay hundreds of thousands of dollars to accountants and tax attorneys to make sure they don't have to pay taxes. But they don't anticipate that when they get divorced, this is just going to blow up in your face. Wait, why? Why is it?
I guess you could pay capital gains too. But not if you do it the right way. So what happens is these people pay hundreds of thousands of dollars to accountants and tax attorneys to make sure they don't have to pay taxes. But they don't anticipate that when they get divorced, this is just going to blow up in your face. Wait, why? Why is it?
You can still get behind.
You can still get behind.
You can still get behind.
I was given a motorcycle once. I had a client who said, you know, he used to like fix up bikes and I used to ride at the time and he said, you know, I'm going to pay you. I just got to sell this bike that I just fixed up. And I was like, oh, what bike is it? And he showed me and I was like, I'll just take the bike. What about cash?
I was given a motorcycle once. I had a client who said, you know, he used to like fix up bikes and I used to ride at the time and he said, you know, I'm going to pay you. I just got to sell this bike that I just fixed up. And I was like, oh, what bike is it? And he showed me and I was like, I'll just take the bike. What about cash?
I was given a motorcycle once. I had a client who said, you know, he used to like fix up bikes and I used to ride at the time and he said, you know, I'm going to pay you. I just got to sell this bike that I just fixed up. And I was like, oh, what bike is it? And he showed me and I was like, I'll just take the bike. What about cash?
like just straight people try to pay me in cash all the time you say no i know i'll accept cash but i do tell them like there's rules about how we take cash and then we have to report it if it's over ten thousand dollars but oh i've had people who come in with like three hundred thousand dollars in cash and they're like can i just pay my bill with this and when you say to them yes but i have to then report to the bank where i got it and suddenly they're like no problem i'll bring you a check you know and instead okay so you're by the book when it comes to payment
like just straight people try to pay me in cash all the time you say no i know i'll accept cash but i do tell them like there's rules about how we take cash and then we have to report it if it's over ten thousand dollars but oh i've had people who come in with like three hundred thousand dollars in cash and they're like can i just pay my bill with this and when you say to them yes but i have to then report to the bank where i got it and suddenly they're like no problem i'll bring you a check you know and instead okay so you're by the book when it comes to payment
like just straight people try to pay me in cash all the time you say no i know i'll accept cash but i do tell them like there's rules about how we take cash and then we have to report it if it's over ten thousand dollars but oh i've had people who come in with like three hundred thousand dollars in cash and they're like can i just pay my bill with this and when you say to them yes but i have to then report to the bank where i got it and suddenly they're like no problem i'll bring you a check you know and instead okay so you're by the book when it comes to payment
You have to be as a lawyer. A lot of lawyers are Wild West with that shit.
You have to be as a lawyer. A lot of lawyers are Wild West with that shit.
You have to be as a lawyer. A lot of lawyers are Wild West with that shit.
I'm in class here. I'm a cheap date. No, I feel like a lot of lawyers... What's interesting is if you read the disciplinary opinions for lawyers, it's really funny because they fuck up lawyers and disbar lawyers for financial stuff really fast. Almost like you read that they publish these decisions. It runs chills through all of us.
I'm in class here. I'm a cheap date. No, I feel like a lot of lawyers... What's interesting is if you read the disciplinary opinions for lawyers, it's really funny because they fuck up lawyers and disbar lawyers for financial stuff really fast. Almost like you read that they publish these decisions. It runs chills through all of us.
I'm in class here. I'm a cheap date. No, I feel like a lot of lawyers... What's interesting is if you read the disciplinary opinions for lawyers, it's really funny because they fuck up lawyers and disbar lawyers for financial stuff really fast. Almost like you read that they publish these decisions. It runs chills through all of us.
What is your craziest divorce that you lost? I shouldn't say this in public, but I will. Her husband ran her over three times and stabbed her 16 times.
What is your craziest divorce that you lost? I shouldn't say this in public, but I will. Her husband ran her over three times and stabbed her 16 times.
What is your craziest divorce that you lost? I shouldn't say this in public, but I will. Her husband ran her over three times and stabbed her 16 times.
But you'll read it and they're like, this lawyer had sex with three of his clients. He, you know, had a serious cocaine problem and he told three of his clients the cases were resolved when in fact they weren't, you know, suspended for two weeks from the practice. of law. And then they're like, this guy did not report $23 that he received in cash disbarred. And you're like, fuck!
But you'll read it and they're like, this lawyer had sex with three of his clients. He, you know, had a serious cocaine problem and he told three of his clients the cases were resolved when in fact they weren't, you know, suspended for two weeks from the practice. of law. And then they're like, this guy did not report $23 that he received in cash disbarred. And you're like, fuck!
But you'll read it and they're like, this lawyer had sex with three of his clients. He, you know, had a serious cocaine problem and he told three of his clients the cases were resolved when in fact they weren't, you know, suspended for two weeks from the practice. of law. And then they're like, this guy did not report $23 that he received in cash disbarred. And you're like, fuck!
Like, the money thing is the biggest thing. So lawyers who play it fast and loose with that stuff, like, you're not going to be around long. Have you ever hooked up with any clients? No. No. And I have to tell you... Have they thrown it at you?
Like, the money thing is the biggest thing. So lawyers who play it fast and loose with that stuff, like, you're not going to be around long. Have you ever hooked up with any clients? No. No. And I have to tell you... Have they thrown it at you?
Like, the money thing is the biggest thing. So lawyers who play it fast and loose with that stuff, like, you're not going to be around long. Have you ever hooked up with any clients? No. No. And I have to tell you... Have they thrown it at you?
You never circled back after you got the good divorce, got a pay, and I was like, yeah, we could spend his money together.
You never circled back after you got the good divorce, got a pay, and I was like, yeah, we could spend his money together.
You never circled back after you got the good divorce, got a pay, and I was like, yeah, we could spend his money together.
Because it makes it so complicated to figure out where is the money? What is marital? What is outside the scope of the marital estate? What can the judge get their hands on? What can't they get their hands on? So it becomes a really, really tricky, messy thing.
Because it makes it so complicated to figure out where is the money? What is marital? What is outside the scope of the marital estate? What can the judge get their hands on? What can't they get their hands on? So it becomes a really, really tricky, messy thing.
Because it makes it so complicated to figure out where is the money? What is marital? What is outside the scope of the marital estate? What can the judge get their hands on? What can't they get their hands on? So it becomes a really, really tricky, messy thing.
Because... I'm trying to figure out how to say this without offending any of my existing clients. The truth is that if you represent a woman in her divorce, you will never fucking want to date her. You see the worst of this person. That's a good lie. That's a good lie. He's a good lawyer. There's a rule in New York. There's a rule in New York.
Because... I'm trying to figure out how to say this without offending any of my existing clients. The truth is that if you represent a woman in her divorce, you will never fucking want to date her. You see the worst of this person. That's a good lie. That's a good lie. He's a good lawyer. There's a rule in New York. There's a rule in New York.
Because... I'm trying to figure out how to say this without offending any of my existing clients. The truth is that if you represent a woman in her divorce, you will never fucking want to date her. You see the worst of this person. That's a good lie. That's a good lie. He's a good lawyer. There's a rule in New York. There's a rule in New York.
Matrimonial lawyers are not, we're the only lawyers that are not allowed to have sex with our clients. It's a rule. Like, if you do a real estate closure for someone, you can fuck them. But if you're a divorce lawyer, a domestic relations lawyer, you cannot have sex with your client for six months after the representation's concluded.
Matrimonial lawyers are not, we're the only lawyers that are not allowed to have sex with our clients. It's a rule. Like, if you do a real estate closure for someone, you can fuck them. But if you're a divorce lawyer, a domestic relations lawyer, you cannot have sex with your client for six months after the representation's concluded.
Matrimonial lawyers are not, we're the only lawyers that are not allowed to have sex with our clients. It's a rule. Like, if you do a real estate closure for someone, you can fuck them. But if you're a divorce lawyer, a domestic relations lawyer, you cannot have sex with your client for six months after the representation's concluded.
No, we're saying do circle the block seven months in.
No, we're saying do circle the block seven months in.
No, we're saying do circle the block seven months in.
Yeah! Timmy Moore! Whoever wrote that rule, whoever wrote that rule was not a divorce lawyer because you don't even want to fucking talk to these people, much less fuck them. Some of these women too, they have a hero thing they've put on you that is so unhealthy. It's the first time I've started to sweat all over.
Yeah! Timmy Moore! Whoever wrote that rule, whoever wrote that rule was not a divorce lawyer because you don't even want to fucking talk to these people, much less fuck them. Some of these women too, they have a hero thing they've put on you that is so unhealthy. It's the first time I've started to sweat all over.
Yeah! Timmy Moore! Whoever wrote that rule, whoever wrote that rule was not a divorce lawyer because you don't even want to fucking talk to these people, much less fuck them. Some of these women too, they have a hero thing they've put on you that is so unhealthy. It's the first time I've started to sweat all over.
I mean, look, it'd probably be fantastic.
I mean, look, it'd probably be fantastic.
I mean, look, it'd probably be fantastic.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's not, you know, I'm not. Just in her house. She's got enough money to do better than me at that point. No, but she's really grateful. Yeah, I mean, look, they do. What I'll tell you is your female clients fall in love with you. They do. But it's not you that they're in love with. You're their hero in this situation. Of course.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's not, you know, I'm not. Just in her house. She's got enough money to do better than me at that point. No, but she's really grateful. Yeah, I mean, look, they do. What I'll tell you is your female clients fall in love with you. They do. But it's not you that they're in love with. You're their hero in this situation. Of course.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's not, you know, I'm not. Just in her house. She's got enough money to do better than me at that point. No, but she's really grateful. Yeah, I mean, look, they do. What I'll tell you is your female clients fall in love with you. They do. But it's not you that they're in love with. You're their hero in this situation. Of course.
And so you have to have the presence of mind. It's like when you're a college professor. Yeah, of course. You got 20-something-year-old girls who are coming to your office hours and they're into you. Of course. There's a part of your brain that goes, oh my God, are you kidding me? This is fucking... But the truth is, they think you know shit you don't know.
And so you have to have the presence of mind. It's like when you're a college professor. Yeah, of course. You got 20-something-year-old girls who are coming to your office hours and they're into you. Of course. There's a part of your brain that goes, oh my God, are you kidding me? This is fucking... But the truth is, they think you know shit you don't know.
And so you have to have the presence of mind. It's like when you're a college professor. Yeah, of course. You got 20-something-year-old girls who are coming to your office hours and they're into you. Of course. There's a part of your brain that goes, oh my God, are you kidding me? This is fucking... But the truth is, they think you know shit you don't know.
They think that you're this genius person. You're just a fucking person. Like, so I really don't, like, that's not, they're not in love with you. I think, like, 20 of them you fucked up.
They think that you're this genius person. You're just a fucking person. Like, so I really don't, like, that's not, they're not in love with you. I think, like, 20 of them you fucked up.
They think that you're this genius person. You're just a fucking person. Like, so I really don't, like, that's not, they're not in love with you. I think, like, 20 of them you fucked up.
I mean, they pay their bill on time, which is nice.
I mean, they pay their bill on time, which is nice.
I mean, they pay their bill on time, which is nice.
But you got it in your head, too. I mean, see, like in your head. there's, like, these super hot young women I'm representing who, like, now have $100 million and want to fuck me. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's really, like... You're not thinking about the money. It's mostly, like, women in, like, their 50s with, like, they all got that New York, you know, like, surprise cosmetic surgery look.
But you got it in your head, too. I mean, see, like in your head. there's, like, these super hot young women I'm representing who, like, now have $100 million and want to fuck me. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's really, like... You're not thinking about the money. It's mostly, like, women in, like, their 50s with, like, they all got that New York, you know, like, surprise cosmetic surgery look.
But you got it in your head, too. I mean, see, like in your head. there's, like, these super hot young women I'm representing who, like, now have $100 million and want to fuck me. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's really, like... You're not thinking about the money. It's mostly, like, women in, like, their 50s with, like, they all got that New York, you know, like, surprise cosmetic surgery look.
And, like, this is not... Like, I could do better than that, I think.
And, like, this is not... Like, I could do better than that, I think.
And, like, this is not... Like, I could do better than that, I think.
You know, I'm very blessed. I'm at the place in my career now where I have high net worth and ultra high net worth clients. And you can have a smaller number of clients who you give a lot more personalized attention to. Because anybody who's at like a certain level of net worth, they are used to being weighted on and they're used to their professionals. Like they've not romanticized a lawyer.
You know, I'm very blessed. I'm at the place in my career now where I have high net worth and ultra high net worth clients. And you can have a smaller number of clients who you give a lot more personalized attention to. Because anybody who's at like a certain level of net worth, they are used to being weighted on and they're used to their professionals. Like they've not romanticized a lawyer.
You know, I'm very blessed. I'm at the place in my career now where I have high net worth and ultra high net worth clients. And you can have a smaller number of clients who you give a lot more personalized attention to. Because anybody who's at like a certain level of net worth, they are used to being weighted on and they're used to their professionals. Like they've not romanticized a lawyer.
You know? Somebody's second wife?
You know? Somebody's second wife?
You know? Somebody's second wife?
They should get a prenup. If there's a prenup. Oh, they lock them in. Yeah, they're smart enough to lock them in, I say to the three fucking guys who are married and don't have prenups.
They should get a prenup. If there's a prenup. Oh, they lock them in. Yeah, they're smart enough to lock them in, I say to the three fucking guys who are married and don't have prenups.
They should get a prenup. If there's a prenup. Oh, they lock them in. Yeah, they're smart enough to lock them in, I say to the three fucking guys who are married and don't have prenups.
Should he get a prenup?
Should he get a prenup?
Should he get a prenup?
I mean, look, what I'll tell you is, I mean, first of all, I don't think anybody wants their marriage to continue forever. their spouse to stay in the marriage because they don't want to give up half their shit. That's like a bad incentive. But you want someone to stay married to you because they want to be married to you.
I mean, look, what I'll tell you is, I mean, first of all, I don't think anybody wants their marriage to continue forever. their spouse to stay in the marriage because they don't want to give up half their shit. That's like a bad incentive. But you want someone to stay married to you because they want to be married to you.
I mean, look, what I'll tell you is, I mean, first of all, I don't think anybody wants their marriage to continue forever. their spouse to stay in the marriage because they don't want to give up half their shit. That's like a bad incentive. But you want someone to stay married to you because they want to be married to you.
They think you add value to their life, that they enjoy your company, that more often than not, they're glad they're with you, whatever. Any number of justifications. But to say, well, I'm with him because I don't want to have to give away half my shit.
They think you add value to their life, that they enjoy your company, that more often than not, they're glad they're with you, whatever. Any number of justifications. But to say, well, I'm with him because I don't want to have to give away half my shit.
They think you add value to their life, that they enjoy your company, that more often than not, they're glad they're with you, whatever. Any number of justifications. But to say, well, I'm with him because I don't want to have to give away half my shit.
Yeah, we got it.
Yeah, we got it.
Yeah, we got it.
I think the easiest prenup is the one that I would encourage most people to have, which is I call it the yours, mine, and ours. If it's in your name, asset or liability, you keep it. If it's in her name, asset or liability, she keeps it. If it's in joint names, you split it 50-50. That's it. Clean. Here's what I'll tell you. All three of you have a prenup. The government wrote it.
I think the easiest prenup is the one that I would encourage most people to have, which is I call it the yours, mine, and ours. If it's in your name, asset or liability, you keep it. If it's in her name, asset or liability, she keeps it. If it's in joint names, you split it 50-50. That's it. Clean. Here's what I'll tell you. All three of you have a prenup. The government wrote it.
I think the easiest prenup is the one that I would encourage most people to have, which is I call it the yours, mine, and ours. If it's in your name, asset or liability, you keep it. If it's in her name, asset or liability, she keeps it. If it's in joint names, you split it 50-50. That's it. Clean. Here's what I'll tell you. All three of you have a prenup. The government wrote it.
The state legislature wrote your fucking prenup. And by the way, like, you think that's a good idea?
The state legislature wrote your fucking prenup. And by the way, like, you think that's a good idea?
The state legislature wrote your fucking prenup. And by the way, like, you think that's a good idea?
You ever walk into the DMV and go, these people should be in charge of everything. Like, they're great at it. This is really good. No, the reality is, is like the government is the worst fucking people to write your prenup.
You ever walk into the DMV and go, these people should be in charge of everything. Like, they're great at it. This is really good. No, the reality is, is like the government is the worst fucking people to write your prenup.
You ever walk into the DMV and go, these people should be in charge of everything. Like, they're great at it. This is really good. No, the reality is, is like the government is the worst fucking people to write your prenup.
You've signed up for a rule set that you don't even know. I don't know. You bought a house, right? You bought a house. You had to sign a HUD one, a lead paint disclosure. You got all this fucking information about the loan. You got married. You didn't get a fucking pamphlet. You just did the most legally significant thing you're going to do in your whole life other than die.
You've signed up for a rule set that you don't even know. I don't know. You bought a house, right? You bought a house. You had to sign a HUD one, a lead paint disclosure. You got all this fucking information about the loan. You got married. You didn't get a fucking pamphlet. You just did the most legally significant thing you're going to do in your whole life other than die.
You've signed up for a rule set that you don't even know. I don't know. You bought a house, right? You bought a house. You had to sign a HUD one, a lead paint disclosure. You got all this fucking information about the loan. You got married. You didn't get a fucking pamphlet. You just did the most legally significant thing you're going to do in your whole life other than die.
And you have no fucking clue what happened. Done. The first time. The first time. It's called big dick energy.
And you have no fucking clue what happened. Done. The first time. The first time. It's called big dick energy.
And you have no fucking clue what happened. Done. The first time. The first time. It's called big dick energy.
Because my attitude is, look, all kidding aside, every marriage has a prenup. It's either one that's written by the government or it's written by the two people that like each other theoretically more than the other 8 billion other options, right? Right. So who is better to come up with a rule set than those two people? And that's all the prenup is.
Because my attitude is, look, all kidding aside, every marriage has a prenup. It's either one that's written by the government or it's written by the two people that like each other theoretically more than the other 8 billion other options, right? Right. So who is better to come up with a rule set than those two people? And that's all the prenup is.
Because my attitude is, look, all kidding aside, every marriage has a prenup. It's either one that's written by the government or it's written by the two people that like each other theoretically more than the other 8 billion other options, right? Right. So who is better to come up with a rule set than those two people? And that's all the prenup is.
Like, they know lots of lawyers. So they look at lawyers like you'd look at, like, a plumber. Like, you know, there's a lot of people that do this. You work for me. And, you know, they're used to it. So you have to give them a certain level of attention. But unlike a plumber, like, you do get to yell at them.
Like, they know lots of lawyers. So they look at lawyers like you'd look at, like, a plumber. Like, you know, there's a lot of people that do this. You work for me. And, you know, they're used to it. So you have to give them a certain level of attention. But unlike a plumber, like, you do get to yell at them.
Like, they know lots of lawyers. So they look at lawyers like you'd look at, like, a plumber. Like, you know, there's a lot of people that do this. You work for me. And, you know, they're used to it. So you have to give them a certain level of attention. But unlike a plumber, like, you do get to yell at them.
A prenup is just saying, look, there's going to come a time like if you get married, it's smart to say to your spouse when you're getting along still.
A prenup is just saying, look, there's going to come a time like if you get married, it's smart to say to your spouse when you're getting along still.
A prenup is just saying, look, there's going to come a time like if you get married, it's smart to say to your spouse when you're getting along still.
We're going to get in a fight at some point. I promise. It's probably my fault. I'm going to say some dumb shit. I say dumb shit. It happens. Yeah. When we get in that fight. What should that look like? Do you need a minute? Should I give you some space? Like if I force you to talk about it, is it gonna turn into a whole thing? Or do we need to take care of this now?
We're going to get in a fight at some point. I promise. It's probably my fault. I'm going to say some dumb shit. I say dumb shit. It happens. Yeah. When we get in that fight. What should that look like? Do you need a minute? Should I give you some space? Like if I force you to talk about it, is it gonna turn into a whole thing? Or do we need to take care of this now?
We're going to get in a fight at some point. I promise. It's probably my fault. I'm going to say some dumb shit. I say dumb shit. It happens. Yeah. When we get in that fight. What should that look like? Do you need a minute? Should I give you some space? Like if I force you to talk about it, is it gonna turn into a whole thing? Or do we need to take care of this now?
Cause you don't wanna go to bed angry. Like I wanna know, cause the worst time to learn how to fight is when you're in a fucking fight. Like that's the worst time to learn how to do a fight. So that's all the prenup is. Prenup is saying, look, we're getting along right now. We have an abundance of goodwill between the two of us.
Cause you don't wanna go to bed angry. Like I wanna know, cause the worst time to learn how to fight is when you're in a fucking fight. Like that's the worst time to learn how to do a fight. So that's all the prenup is. Prenup is saying, look, we're getting along right now. We have an abundance of goodwill between the two of us.
Cause you don't wanna go to bed angry. Like I wanna know, cause the worst time to learn how to fight is when you're in a fucking fight. Like that's the worst time to learn how to do a fight. So that's all the prenup is. Prenup is saying, look, we're getting along right now. We have an abundance of goodwill between the two of us.
if God forbid in the highly unlikely 56% the highly unlikely chance that we would get divorced, what would that look like? And by the way, there's a way to say it that I think has a tremendous amount of big dick energy, which is to say, you know what? You're my woman. I want you to feel safe. You can't feel loved unless you feel safe.
if God forbid in the highly unlikely 56% the highly unlikely chance that we would get divorced, what would that look like? And by the way, there's a way to say it that I think has a tremendous amount of big dick energy, which is to say, you know what? You're my woman. I want you to feel safe. You can't feel loved unless you feel safe.
if God forbid in the highly unlikely 56% the highly unlikely chance that we would get divorced, what would that look like? And by the way, there's a way to say it that I think has a tremendous amount of big dick energy, which is to say, you know what? You're my woman. I want you to feel safe. You can't feel loved unless you feel safe.
And the way I want you to feel safe, the way I want you to feel safe is I want you to feel safe from everyone, including me. So what is it?
And the way I want you to feel safe, the way I want you to feel safe is I want you to feel safe from everyone, including me. So what is it?
And the way I want you to feel safe, the way I want you to feel safe is I want you to feel safe from everyone, including me. So what is it?
It's a conversation you got to have. Like, look, you know this as a married man. If you can't have difficult conversations with your spouse, don't get fucking married. Like, part of being married is having hard conversations, talking about tough stuff.
It's a conversation you got to have. Like, look, you know this as a married man. If you can't have difficult conversations with your spouse, don't get fucking married. Like, part of being married is having hard conversations, talking about tough stuff.
It's a conversation you got to have. Like, look, you know this as a married man. If you can't have difficult conversations with your spouse, don't get fucking married. Like, part of being married is having hard conversations, talking about tough stuff.
But just to push back on that thought a little bit.
But just to push back on that thought a little bit.
But just to push back on that thought a little bit.
what I would say to you is, okay, but there's gotta be a stop loss somewhere in there, right? Like there's gotta be some sense of like, what is that obligation? Because look, at the end of the day, we all owe each other things when we make decisions like this, right? Like in some ways, in some ways, You wouldn't have the success you have if it wasn't for your wife. Absolutely. She supported you.
what I would say to you is, okay, but there's gotta be a stop loss somewhere in there, right? Like there's gotta be some sense of like, what is that obligation? Because look, at the end of the day, we all owe each other things when we make decisions like this, right? Like in some ways, in some ways, You wouldn't have the success you have if it wasn't for your wife. Absolutely. She supported you.
what I would say to you is, okay, but there's gotta be a stop loss somewhere in there, right? Like there's gotta be some sense of like, what is that obligation? Because look, at the end of the day, we all owe each other things when we make decisions like this, right? Like in some ways, in some ways, You wouldn't have the success you have if it wasn't for your wife. Absolutely. She supported you.
Sure. Okay, absolutely. Your wife wouldn't be the person she is if it wasn't for her mother. Sure. So what do you owe her mother? How much? I think at least half. Okay. Her mother wouldn't be the person she was if it wasn't for her mother.
Sure. Okay, absolutely. Your wife wouldn't be the person she is if it wasn't for her mother. Sure. So what do you owe her mother? How much? I think at least half. Okay. Her mother wouldn't be the person she was if it wasn't for her mother.
Sure. Okay, absolutely. Your wife wouldn't be the person she is if it wasn't for her mother. Sure. So what do you owe her mother? How much? I think at least half. Okay. Her mother wouldn't be the person she was if it wasn't for her mother.
Look, I think fundamentally... Yeah, they need half of her.
Look, I think fundamentally... Yeah, they need half of her.
Look, I think fundamentally... Yeah, they need half of her.
You know, I just watched your special, you know, and I got a huge kick out, especially as a divorce lawyer, the shit we laugh at. But when you said the thing about, you know, like... We made a baby. We made a baby and you're like, oh, just like we made this money. Like it's our money. Like, okay, look, at the end of the day, we know you earn more than her, right?
You know, I just watched your special, you know, and I got a huge kick out, especially as a divorce lawyer, the shit we laugh at. But when you said the thing about, you know, like... We made a baby. We made a baby and you're like, oh, just like we made this money. Like it's our money. Like, okay, look, at the end of the day, we know you earn more than her, right?
You know, I just watched your special, you know, and I got a huge kick out, especially as a divorce lawyer, the shit we laugh at. But when you said the thing about, you know, like... We made a baby. We made a baby and you're like, oh, just like we made this money. Like it's our money. Like, okay, look, at the end of the day, we know you earn more than her, right?
Okay, so why do we have to be afraid to say that out loud? Like marriage is an economy. That's not a dirty word. An economy is we're exchanging value. We're giving and receiving. And an economy does not require that everyone gives and receives the exact same fucking thing. You can say like Steve Jobs, Steve Wozniak.
Okay, so why do we have to be afraid to say that out loud? Like marriage is an economy. That's not a dirty word. An economy is we're exchanging value. We're giving and receiving. And an economy does not require that everyone gives and receives the exact same fucking thing. You can say like Steve Jobs, Steve Wozniak.
Okay, so why do we have to be afraid to say that out loud? Like marriage is an economy. That's not a dirty word. An economy is we're exchanging value. We're giving and receiving. And an economy does not require that everyone gives and receives the exact same fucking thing. You can say like Steve Jobs, Steve Wozniak.
Without Steve Wozniak, Steve Jobs would have a lot of cool ideas he couldn't do shit with. And if it wasn't for Steve Jobs, Steve Wozniak would be a dude in his garage making shit but have no vision. So together they brought something to fruition. Same thing.
Without Steve Wozniak, Steve Jobs would have a lot of cool ideas he couldn't do shit with. And if it wasn't for Steve Jobs, Steve Wozniak would be a dude in his garage making shit but have no vision. So together they brought something to fruition. Same thing.
Without Steve Wozniak, Steve Jobs would have a lot of cool ideas he couldn't do shit with. And if it wasn't for Steve Jobs, Steve Wozniak would be a dude in his garage making shit but have no vision. So together they brought something to fruition. Same thing.
for reasons that I think we could fix as a culture. And that is that why can't we be on, like, I'm a fan of honesty. I'm a fan of just being, just say a quiet part out loud. Like you give me like, cause here's the problem. Here's the problem with modern marriage from a man's perspective, as far as I'm concerned. Most of the marriages I know, okay, the man provides financially, he protects, right?
for reasons that I think we could fix as a culture. And that is that why can't we be on, like, I'm a fan of honesty. I'm a fan of just being, just say a quiet part out loud. Like you give me like, cause here's the problem. Here's the problem with modern marriage from a man's perspective, as far as I'm concerned. Most of the marriages I know, okay, the man provides financially, he protects, right?
for reasons that I think we could fix as a culture. And that is that why can't we be on, like, I'm a fan of honesty. I'm a fan of just being, just say a quiet part out loud. Like you give me like, cause here's the problem. Here's the problem with modern marriage from a man's perspective, as far as I'm concerned. Most of the marriages I know, okay, the man provides financially, he protects, right?
He, you know, he's also there to be part of the family dynamic, taking care of kids, doing the things that he can do. What does the woman bring? She brings love, affection, a little bit of sweetness at the end of the day, you know, sex. She brings, you know, taking care of kids.
He, you know, he's also there to be part of the family dynamic, taking care of kids, doing the things that he can do. What does the woman bring? She brings love, affection, a little bit of sweetness at the end of the day, you know, sex. She brings, you know, taking care of kids.
He, you know, he's also there to be part of the family dynamic, taking care of kids, doing the things that he can do. What does the woman bring? She brings love, affection, a little bit of sweetness at the end of the day, you know, sex. She brings, you know, taking care of kids.
OK, if you get divorced, every single thing on that side of the man equation, he can be compelled to do by the power of the state. And if he fails to do it, they can put him in jail. nothing on that other side, the female side, is enforceable at law. The court cannot order her to be nice to you, to fuck you, to be a wonderful mother to your children. She can't. They can't force that.
OK, if you get divorced, every single thing on that side of the man equation, he can be compelled to do by the power of the state. And if he fails to do it, they can put him in jail. nothing on that other side, the female side, is enforceable at law. The court cannot order her to be nice to you, to fuck you, to be a wonderful mother to your children. She can't. They can't force that.
OK, if you get divorced, every single thing on that side of the man equation, he can be compelled to do by the power of the state. And if he fails to do it, they can put him in jail. nothing on that other side, the female side, is enforceable at law. The court cannot order her to be nice to you, to fuck you, to be a wonderful mother to your children. She can't. They can't force that.
So when you have a contract where only one side of it is enforceable with the power of the state and the other side is not, my attitude is why don't we then just have an honest conversation about what we could both be afraid of and what value we want to attribute. But the court can't
So when you have a contract where only one side of it is enforceable with the power of the state and the other side is not, my attitude is why don't we then just have an honest conversation about what we could both be afraid of and what value we want to attribute. But the court can't
So when you have a contract where only one side of it is enforceable with the power of the state and the other side is not, my attitude is why don't we then just have an honest conversation about what we could both be afraid of and what value we want to attribute. But the court can't
force you to protect your wife and the court can't force you to make economically they can force you to they can force you to protect somebody you can tell like i've had i've had you know cases where the court says okay um this person needs a security detail if it's a celebrity they say these kids are going to need security for when they go to school things like the average person like can the court say you have to work to a dad well what the courts say is lincoln freed the slaves like if you're a you know if you're a uh uh if you're any a
force you to protect your wife and the court can't force you to make economically they can force you to they can force you to protect somebody you can tell like i've had i've had you know cases where the court says okay um this person needs a security detail if it's a celebrity they say these kids are going to need security for when they go to school things like the average person like can the court say you have to work to a dad well what the courts say is lincoln freed the slaves like if you're a you know if you're a uh uh if you're any a
force you to protect your wife and the court can't force you to make economically they can force you to they can force you to protect somebody you can tell like i've had i've had you know cases where the court says okay um this person needs a security detail if it's a celebrity they say these kids are going to need security for when they go to school things like the average person like can the court say you have to work to a dad well what the courts say is lincoln freed the slaves like if you're a you know if you're a uh uh if you're any a
Yeah, I mean, the people you should never lie to are your doctor and your lawyer. Because like everything you tell us, every single thing you tell us is protected by privilege. And there's absolutely our only jobs to protect you.
Yeah, I mean, the people you should never lie to are your doctor and your lawyer. Because like everything you tell us, every single thing you tell us is protected by privilege. And there's absolutely our only jobs to protect you.
Yeah, I mean, the people you should never lie to are your doctor and your lawyer. Because like everything you tell us, every single thing you tell us is protected by privilege. And there's absolutely our only jobs to protect you.
You notice I didn't look old. I appreciate that.
You notice I didn't look old. I appreciate that.
You notice I didn't look old. I appreciate that.
So what the courts say is like, if you're a brain surgeon who now I'm getting divorced, I decided I want to be a fucking yoga teacher. The court goes, look, Lincoln freed the slaves. We can't make you be a brain surgeon. You're just going to be a brain. You're going to be a yoga teacher who has the financial obligations of a brain surgeon. So they impute an income to you.
So what the courts say is like, if you're a brain surgeon who now I'm getting divorced, I decided I want to be a fucking yoga teacher. The court goes, look, Lincoln freed the slaves. We can't make you be a brain surgeon. You're just going to be a brain. You're going to be a yoga teacher who has the financial obligations of a brain surgeon. So they impute an income to you.
So what the courts say is like, if you're a brain surgeon who now I'm getting divorced, I decided I want to be a fucking yoga teacher. The court goes, look, Lincoln freed the slaves. We can't make you be a brain surgeon. You're just going to be a brain. You're going to be a yoga teacher who has the financial obligations of a brain surgeon. So they impute an income to you.
And they'll say, whatever you do for a living, it's fine. We can't force you to work, but we can give you financial obligations commensurate with your earning capacity, even if you're not earning at that capacity, which is actually really fucked up sometimes. Like I had a client once who was an air traffic controller.
And they'll say, whatever you do for a living, it's fine. We can't force you to work, but we can give you financial obligations commensurate with your earning capacity, even if you're not earning at that capacity, which is actually really fucked up sometimes. Like I had a client once who was an air traffic controller.
And they'll say, whatever you do for a living, it's fine. We can't force you to work, but we can give you financial obligations commensurate with your earning capacity, even if you're not earning at that capacity, which is actually really fucked up sometimes. Like I had a client once who was an air traffic controller.
And if you know anything about air traffic controllers, like you can have a high school education, be an air traffic controller, make like three, four hundred grand a year. Wow. You can do really, really well. Well, this guy, his mother passed away. He was very close with her. He had a lot of anxiety and a lot of depression from it.
And if you know anything about air traffic controllers, like you can have a high school education, be an air traffic controller, make like three, four hundred grand a year. Wow. You can do really, really well. Well, this guy, his mother passed away. He was very close with her. He had a lot of anxiety and a lot of depression from it.
And if you know anything about air traffic controllers, like you can have a high school education, be an air traffic controller, make like three, four hundred grand a year. Wow. You can do really, really well. Well, this guy, his mother passed away. He was very close with her. He had a lot of anxiety and a lot of depression from it.
And he had to go on on medication, psychiatric medication to like sort of deal with it. You're not allowed to be on benzodiazepines or certain psychiatric medications while you're in air traffic control. So he was terminated from his position. The next best job this guy could get, he made about 50 grand a year. But the court was like, no, no, no. You're earning capacity is $350,000 a year.
And he had to go on on medication, psychiatric medication to like sort of deal with it. You're not allowed to be on benzodiazepines or certain psychiatric medications while you're in air traffic control. So he was terminated from his position. The next best job this guy could get, he made about 50 grand a year. But the court was like, no, no, no. You're earning capacity is $350,000 a year.
And he had to go on on medication, psychiatric medication to like sort of deal with it. You're not allowed to be on benzodiazepines or certain psychiatric medications while you're in air traffic control. So he was terminated from his position. The next best job this guy could get, he made about 50 grand a year. But the court was like, no, no, no. You're earning capacity is $350,000 a year.
That's what you made. And we were like, judge, what job can this guy get where he's going to make that amount of money? So it can sometimes, this is how guys end up in jail for not paying.
That's what you made. And we were like, judge, what job can this guy get where he's going to make that amount of money? So it can sometimes, this is how guys end up in jail for not paying.
That's what you made. And we were like, judge, what job can this guy get where he's going to make that amount of money? So it can sometimes, this is how guys end up in jail for not paying.
So what do you do? he suffered basically yeah I mean he had a very unfair child support award placed against him he ended up in jail a couple of times it was a really because he was like selling drugs or something to make them no he just was not he didn't pay his support it's illegal to not pay child support you can be put in jail
So what do you do? he suffered basically yeah I mean he had a very unfair child support award placed against him he ended up in jail a couple of times it was a really because he was like selling drugs or something to make them no he just was not he didn't pay his support it's illegal to not pay child support you can be put in jail
So what do you do? he suffered basically yeah I mean he had a very unfair child support award placed against him he ended up in jail a couple of times it was a really because he was like selling drugs or something to make them no he just was not he didn't pay his support it's illegal to not pay child support you can be put in jail
We did after a certain amount of time, and then it was granted. The judge sort of didn't buy that this was not done intentionally. We joke in our industry that, you know, we call it sudden income deficiency syndrome, that it hits like 9 out of 10 divorcing men. Like, guys are doing really great, and then all of a sudden they're getting divorced, and they're like, but this year's going to be bad.
We did after a certain amount of time, and then it was granted. The judge sort of didn't buy that this was not done intentionally. We joke in our industry that, you know, we call it sudden income deficiency syndrome, that it hits like 9 out of 10 divorcing men. Like, guys are doing really great, and then all of a sudden they're getting divorced, and they're like, but this year's going to be bad.
We did after a certain amount of time, and then it was granted. The judge sort of didn't buy that this was not done intentionally. We joke in our industry that, you know, we call it sudden income deficiency syndrome, that it hits like 9 out of 10 divorcing men. Like, guys are doing really great, and then all of a sudden they're getting divorced, and they're like, but this year's going to be bad.
I'm not going to do well this year.
I'm not going to do well this year.
I'm not going to do well this year.
They're like, yeah, but we're having a bad year. Yeah. It happens a lot that judges tend to look at people and go, you know, something tells me that if you're saying you're suddenly not doing well financially and it happens to be when you're getting divorced, there might be, you know, it's not a coincidence.
They're like, yeah, but we're having a bad year. Yeah. It happens a lot that judges tend to look at people and go, you know, something tells me that if you're saying you're suddenly not doing well financially and it happens to be when you're getting divorced, there might be, you know, it's not a coincidence.
They're like, yeah, but we're having a bad year. Yeah. It happens a lot that judges tend to look at people and go, you know, something tells me that if you're saying you're suddenly not doing well financially and it happens to be when you're getting divorced, there might be, you know, it's not a coincidence.
It depends on how bold the judge is. I mean, what I'll tell you is a big, I'll give you some free legal advice. If you ever have a child support obligation against you, which I hope you never do, and you have to pay it and you don't have the money to pay it. Like if you're supposed to give her $2,000 a month and you don't have $2,000, don't give her $1,000. Give her $1,226.37.
It depends on how bold the judge is. I mean, what I'll tell you is a big, I'll give you some free legal advice. If you ever have a child support obligation against you, which I hope you never do, and you have to pay it and you don't have the money to pay it. Like if you're supposed to give her $2,000 a month and you don't have $2,000, don't give her $1,000. Give her $1,226.37.
It depends on how bold the judge is. I mean, what I'll tell you is a big, I'll give you some free legal advice. If you ever have a child support obligation against you, which I hope you never do, and you have to pay it and you don't have the money to pay it. Like if you're supposed to give her $2,000 a month and you don't have $2,000, don't give her $1,000. Give her $1,226.37.
I literally say that. I mean, I don't pull any punches on it. But what I usually will say to them just to kind of take it to a place that they can understand is I'll say, look, at the beginning of this relationship, I want you to understand, I represent people who have been victims of domestic violence. I represent perpetrators of domestic violence.
I literally say that. I mean, I don't pull any punches on it. But what I usually will say to them just to kind of take it to a place that they can understand is I'll say, look, at the beginning of this relationship, I want you to understand, I represent people who have been victims of domestic violence. I represent perpetrators of domestic violence.
I literally say that. I mean, I don't pull any punches on it. But what I usually will say to them just to kind of take it to a place that they can understand is I'll say, look, at the beginning of this relationship, I want you to understand, I represent people who have been victims of domestic violence. I represent perpetrators of domestic violence.
Because then when we get in front of the judge, we can say, judge, I had $1,000. I borrowed $200 from my cousin. I found $32 under the mats of my car. This is everything I have. Because what people do is if you gave $1,000, why didn't you give $1,001? If you gave $1,500, like a round number, it just looks like you're full of shit.
Because then when we get in front of the judge, we can say, judge, I had $1,000. I borrowed $200 from my cousin. I found $32 under the mats of my car. This is everything I have. Because what people do is if you gave $1,000, why didn't you give $1,001? If you gave $1,500, like a round number, it just looks like you're full of shit.
Because then when we get in front of the judge, we can say, judge, I had $1,000. I borrowed $200 from my cousin. I found $32 under the mats of my car. This is everything I have. Because what people do is if you gave $1,000, why didn't you give $1,001? If you gave $1,500, like a round number, it just looks like you're full of shit.
But yeah, I mean, look, courts don't always, again, because judges are human. There are some judges, they will put you right the fuck in.
But yeah, I mean, look, courts don't always, again, because judges are human. There are some judges, they will put you right the fuck in.
But yeah, I mean, look, courts don't always, again, because judges are human. There are some judges, they will put you right the fuck in.
in jail i've had clients let off in orange you know where the judge says look you got a week to pay this child support and if you don't bring a toothbrush when you come back to court because i'm putting you away and they'll put some they'll lock guys up they have what's called weekend jail where on friday after work you check in and you stay in jail until monday morning and then monday worked so you can work and pay your child support yeah why uh why does alimony exist
in jail i've had clients let off in orange you know where the judge says look you got a week to pay this child support and if you don't bring a toothbrush when you come back to court because i'm putting you away and they'll put some they'll lock guys up they have what's called weekend jail where on friday after work you check in and you stay in jail until monday morning and then monday worked so you can work and pay your child support yeah why uh why does alimony exist
in jail i've had clients let off in orange you know where the judge says look you got a week to pay this child support and if you don't bring a toothbrush when you come back to court because i'm putting you away and they'll put some they'll lock guys up they have what's called weekend jail where on friday after work you check in and you stay in jail until monday morning and then monday worked so you can work and pay your child support yeah why uh why does alimony exist
You ever want to take a feminism out of a woman?
You ever want to take a feminism out of a woman?
You ever want to take a feminism out of a woman?
So alimony or spousal support or spousal maintenance, every state calls it something different, is a payment that's made from one former spouse to another. And it's intended to either rehabilitate their earning capacity so that they can kind of get on their feet or it's to roughly approximate the marital lifestyle for a certain period of time.
So alimony or spousal support or spousal maintenance, every state calls it something different, is a payment that's made from one former spouse to another. And it's intended to either rehabilitate their earning capacity so that they can kind of get on their feet or it's to roughly approximate the marital lifestyle for a certain period of time.
So alimony or spousal support or spousal maintenance, every state calls it something different, is a payment that's made from one former spouse to another. And it's intended to either rehabilitate their earning capacity so that they can kind of get on their feet or it's to roughly approximate the marital lifestyle for a certain period of time.
So it's very rarely what we call non-durational, meaning like you broke it, you bought it forever, you owe her the marital lifestyle. There was a time where that was the way it was done, but it hasn't been that way for many, many years now.
So it's very rarely what we call non-durational, meaning like you broke it, you bought it forever, you owe her the marital lifestyle. There was a time where that was the way it was done, but it hasn't been that way for many, many years now.
So it's very rarely what we call non-durational, meaning like you broke it, you bought it forever, you owe her the marital lifestyle. There was a time where that was the way it was done, but it hasn't been that way for many, many years now.
And there's a wide disparity in your incomes.
And there's a wide disparity in your incomes.
And there's a wide disparity in your incomes.
Or some approximation of it for some period of time. Got it. So the steel man argument for it is the following. There are economic decisions you make during your marriage and you make them as a couple, right? So it is very difficult for everybody to be Beyonce. Somebody's got to be Destiny's Child. You know, you can't all be the, you know, Lionel Richie. Somebody's got to be the comedians.
Or some approximation of it for some period of time. Got it. So the steel man argument for it is the following. There are economic decisions you make during your marriage and you make them as a couple, right? So it is very difficult for everybody to be Beyonce. Somebody's got to be Destiny's Child. You know, you can't all be the, you know, Lionel Richie. Somebody's got to be the comedians.
Or some approximation of it for some period of time. Got it. So the steel man argument for it is the following. There are economic decisions you make during your marriage and you make them as a couple, right? So it is very difficult for everybody to be Beyonce. Somebody's got to be Destiny's Child. You know, you can't all be the, you know, Lionel Richie. Somebody's got to be the comedians.
I represent people who are, by any objective standard, amazing parents. And I represent people who just want to put the kids in the middle for leverage for child support purposes. And I am no one's moral compass. I'm a weapon. And a weapon in the hands of a hero, right, is going to protect people. And a weapon in the hands of the villain is going to cause chaos.
I represent people who are, by any objective standard, amazing parents. And I represent people who just want to put the kids in the middle for leverage for child support purposes. And I am no one's moral compass. I'm a weapon. And a weapon in the hands of a hero, right, is going to protect people. And a weapon in the hands of the villain is going to cause chaos.
I represent people who are, by any objective standard, amazing parents. And I represent people who just want to put the kids in the middle for leverage for child support purposes. And I am no one's moral compass. I'm a weapon. And a weapon in the hands of a hero, right, is going to protect people. And a weapon in the hands of the villain is going to cause chaos.
So what you do is you say, okay, look, you're the star right now. I'm going to stand back. I'm going to take care of home. I'm going to do my thing. In the law, we call it diminished lifetime earning capacity. Which basically means if a woman takes her late 20s or her 30s off from the workforce, because that's when you have kids. You have kids in your 30s, kids in your 40s.
So what you do is you say, okay, look, you're the star right now. I'm going to stand back. I'm going to take care of home. I'm going to do my thing. In the law, we call it diminished lifetime earning capacity. Which basically means if a woman takes her late 20s or her 30s off from the workforce, because that's when you have kids. You have kids in your 30s, kids in your 40s.
So what you do is you say, okay, look, you're the star right now. I'm going to stand back. I'm going to take care of home. I'm going to do my thing. In the law, we call it diminished lifetime earning capacity. Which basically means if a woman takes her late 20s or her 30s off from the workforce, because that's when you have kids. You have kids in your 30s, kids in your 40s.
Very hard for her to get back into the workforce. And when she gets back into the workforce, she's behind in the race. Like, if you join the New York City Marathon halfway through, you're not going to finish with everybody else, no matter how fucking fast you are.
Very hard for her to get back into the workforce. And when she gets back into the workforce, she's behind in the race. Like, if you join the New York City Marathon halfway through, you're not going to finish with everybody else, no matter how fucking fast you are.
Very hard for her to get back into the workforce. And when she gets back into the workforce, she's behind in the race. Like, if you join the New York City Marathon halfway through, you're not going to finish with everybody else, no matter how fucking fast you are.
So in the law, we call that diminished lifetime earnings.
So in the law, we call that diminished lifetime earnings.
So in the law, we call that diminished lifetime earnings.
It's lower, and it'll never catch up. Because by the time she reaches the age she would have been at 40, she's 60. So she's closer to retirement. So what you're doing is you're sort of saying, okay, we're going to compensate for that. That's the argument for it.
It's lower, and it'll never catch up. Because by the time she reaches the age she would have been at 40, she's 60. So she's closer to retirement. So what you're doing is you're sort of saying, okay, we're going to compensate for that. That's the argument for it.
It's lower, and it'll never catch up. Because by the time she reaches the age she would have been at 40, she's 60. So she's closer to retirement. So what you're doing is you're sort of saying, okay, we're going to compensate for that. That's the argument for it.
So what's really interesting is without realizing it, you've actually just joined the legislative committee of the New York State Bar Association because a few years ago. Yeah. The domestic relations law was actually modified to reflect exactly that. OK, I think where they said what they call it is the the the income creating capacity of assets received in equitable distribution.
So what's really interesting is without realizing it, you've actually just joined the legislative committee of the New York State Bar Association because a few years ago. Yeah. The domestic relations law was actually modified to reflect exactly that. OK, I think where they said what they call it is the the the income creating capacity of assets received in equitable distribution.
So what's really interesting is without realizing it, you've actually just joined the legislative committee of the New York State Bar Association because a few years ago. Yeah. The domestic relations law was actually modified to reflect exactly that. OK, I think where they said what they call it is the the the income creating capacity of assets received in equitable distribution.
When I started my career 25 years ago, that wasn't a factor. And then a lot of lawyers, myself included, were like, wait, she's getting $20 million. put it in treasuries at 5%. She's got an income stream. So the courts and the legislature caught up and now they say, yeah, if you're getting like, I just did a divorce where there was an $800 million marital estate.
When I started my career 25 years ago, that wasn't a factor. And then a lot of lawyers, myself included, were like, wait, she's getting $20 million. put it in treasuries at 5%. She's got an income stream. So the courts and the legislature caught up and now they say, yeah, if you're getting like, I just did a divorce where there was an $800 million marital estate.
When I started my career 25 years ago, that wasn't a factor. And then a lot of lawyers, myself included, were like, wait, she's getting $20 million. put it in treasuries at 5%. She's got an income stream. So the courts and the legislature caught up and now they say, yeah, if you're getting like, I just did a divorce where there was an $800 million marital estate.
She actually had the audacity to ask for Alamo. The judge looked at it and went, listen, you're getting $400 million worth of assets. You're going to be all right. You know, we're not, that can kick off income if you want it.
She actually had the audacity to ask for Alamo. The judge looked at it and went, listen, you're getting $400 million worth of assets. You're going to be all right. You know, we're not, that can kick off income if you want it.
She actually had the audacity to ask for Alamo. The judge looked at it and went, listen, you're getting $400 million worth of assets. You're going to be all right. You know, we're not, that can kick off income if you want it.
Let's just call that it. Russian women, in my experience professionally, they get ice cold. When you're married to a Russian woman, there's nothing she won't do for you. And when you're divorcing a Russian woman, there is nothing she won't do to you. Like she will your right up.
Let's just call that it. Russian women, in my experience professionally, they get ice cold. When you're married to a Russian woman, there's nothing she won't do for you. And when you're divorcing a Russian woman, there is nothing she won't do to you. Like she will your right up.
Let's just call that it. Russian women, in my experience professionally, they get ice cold. When you're married to a Russian woman, there's nothing she won't do for you. And when you're divorcing a Russian woman, there is nothing she won't do to you. Like she will your right up.
That's where a lot of them came about. And then the law is very slow to change because the way that our law works is it's sort of a living thing that modifies as times and standards change.
That's where a lot of them came about. And then the law is very slow to change because the way that our law works is it's sort of a living thing that modifies as times and standards change.
That's where a lot of them came about. And then the law is very slow to change because the way that our law works is it's sort of a living thing that modifies as times and standards change.
And by the way, to bring it back to where we started here, that's why I'm a fan of prenups.
And by the way, to bring it back to where we started here, that's why I'm a fan of prenups.
And by the way, to bring it back to where we started here, that's why I'm a fan of prenups.
Because if you're a fair person and your soon-to-be spouse is a fair person, couldn't you have this conversation?
Because if you're a fair person and your soon-to-be spouse is a fair person, couldn't you have this conversation?
Because if you're a fair person and your soon-to-be spouse is a fair person, couldn't you have this conversation?
But the weapon is kind of neutral, right?
But the weapon is kind of neutral, right?
But the weapon is kind of neutral, right?
That's to me the best argument because here's the other problem. Is there another contract that you've ever heard of? that they can change the terms of the contract without even fucking telling you? That's interesting. Like, imagine if you bought or leased a car. Yeah, this is really interesting.
That's to me the best argument because here's the other problem. Is there another contract that you've ever heard of? that they can change the terms of the contract without even fucking telling you? That's interesting. Like, imagine if you bought or leased a car. Yeah, this is really interesting.
That's to me the best argument because here's the other problem. Is there another contract that you've ever heard of? that they can change the terms of the contract without even fucking telling you? That's interesting. Like, imagine if you bought or leased a car. Yeah, this is really interesting.
And they said, oh, by the way, the state just decided we're going to change how the interest rate works and when you have to make the payments. And you're not allowed to go, oh, well then I'd like to opt out and return the car. And they go, oh, no, no, no, you can't do that, sorry. Like, so there's rules. There's a prenup that was written for all three of your marriages. By the government.
And they said, oh, by the way, the state just decided we're going to change how the interest rate works and when you have to make the payments. And you're not allowed to go, oh, well then I'd like to opt out and return the car. And they go, oh, no, no, no, you can't do that, sorry. Like, so there's rules. There's a prenup that was written for all three of your marriages. By the government.
And they said, oh, by the way, the state just decided we're going to change how the interest rate works and when you have to make the payments. And you're not allowed to go, oh, well then I'd like to opt out and return the car. And they go, oh, no, no, no, you can't do that, sorry. Like, so there's rules. There's a prenup that was written for all three of your marriages. By the government.
I mean, obviously, a lot of my clients, I can't disclose who they are.
I mean, obviously, a lot of my clients, I can't disclose who they are.
I mean, obviously, a lot of my clients, I can't disclose who they are.
That can be changed unilaterally by people other than you and your wife. and affect you forever. So to me, my attitude is, listen, you could do a prenup one way and then three years later do an addendum and modify it. You can make it a living document. It's just like you make your will. You make your will at one point. You make it again five years later. You change it. You change it frequently.
That can be changed unilaterally by people other than you and your wife. and affect you forever. So to me, my attitude is, listen, you could do a prenup one way and then three years later do an addendum and modify it. You can make it a living document. It's just like you make your will. You make your will at one point. You make it again five years later. You change it. You change it frequently.
That can be changed unilaterally by people other than you and your wife. and affect you forever. So to me, my attitude is, listen, you could do a prenup one way and then three years later do an addendum and modify it. You can make it a living document. It's just like you make your will. You make your will at one point. You make it again five years later. You change it. You change it frequently.
And by the way, not an unfair concept.
And by the way, not an unfair concept.
And by the way, not an unfair concept.
Oh, I've represented people who are, you know, by any objective metric are, you know, malignant narcissists. I mean, unfortunately, the traits that make people very successful, particularly in high finance, which is what New York is really like. My colleague Laura Wasser is in L.A. She represents like every celebrity you've ever seen. Yeah.
Oh, I've represented people who are, you know, by any objective metric are, you know, malignant narcissists. I mean, unfortunately, the traits that make people very successful, particularly in high finance, which is what New York is really like. My colleague Laura Wasser is in L.A. She represents like every celebrity you've ever seen. Yeah.
Oh, I've represented people who are, you know, by any objective metric are, you know, malignant narcissists. I mean, unfortunately, the traits that make people very successful, particularly in high finance, which is what New York is really like. My colleague Laura Wasser is in L.A. She represents like every celebrity you've ever seen. Yeah.
I represent a lot of people in finance who could buy those celebrities 10 times over, but would walk past you on the street. You never knew who they were. Did you represent any current or former presidents? No, no presidents yet. Yeah, no presidents yet. They all seem to keep it together, right?
I represent a lot of people in finance who could buy those celebrities 10 times over, but would walk past you on the street. You never knew who they were. Did you represent any current or former presidents? No, no presidents yet. Yeah, no presidents yet. They all seem to keep it together, right?
I represent a lot of people in finance who could buy those celebrities 10 times over, but would walk past you on the street. You never knew who they were. Did you represent any current or former presidents? No, no presidents yet. Yeah, no presidents yet. They all seem to keep it together, right?
Clint and I got my fingers crossed. How do you come to us?
Clint and I got my fingers crossed. How do you come to us?
Clint and I got my fingers crossed. How do you come to us?
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
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Yeah. So so you have that thought. Like so. So first of all, yes, I'm I'm I'm a sensitive person. I don't think I could do this job well if I wasn't. Because to do this job well, it's just like, I think it's like being a comic. I think you have to have a sensitivity. You have to be able to read what's going on with this audience.
Yeah. So so you have that thought. Like so. So first of all, yes, I'm I'm I'm a sensitive person. I don't think I could do this job well if I wasn't. Because to do this job well, it's just like, I think it's like being a comic. I think you have to have a sensitivity. You have to be able to read what's going on with this audience.
Yeah. So so you have that thought. Like so. So first of all, yes, I'm I'm I'm a sensitive person. I don't think I could do this job well if I wasn't. Because to do this job well, it's just like, I think it's like being a comic. I think you have to have a sensitivity. You have to be able to read what's going on with this audience.
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Most wedding ceremonies is the gives away the bride. It's symbolic of things that most women would find terribly offensive. But because we put all these cultural things around it, it's like, oh, yes, buying a woman an engagement ring. Like how many women have you met that are so feminist that they go, I'm not accepting you giving me some expensive thing as a way of purchasing. Is it there?
Most wedding ceremonies is the gives away the bride. It's symbolic of things that most women would find terribly offensive. But because we put all these cultural things around it, it's like, oh, yes, buying a woman an engagement ring. Like how many women have you met that are so feminist that they go, I'm not accepting you giving me some expensive thing as a way of purchasing. Is it there?
Most wedding ceremonies is the gives away the bride. It's symbolic of things that most women would find terribly offensive. But because we put all these cultural things around it, it's like, oh, yes, buying a woman an engagement ring. Like how many women have you met that are so feminist that they go, I'm not accepting you giving me some expensive thing as a way of purchasing. Is it there?
Fuck that. You could be a Bella Abzug feminist and you would still be like, oh, yeah, no, I want a big fucking rock and it better not be lab made.
Fuck that. You could be a Bella Abzug feminist and you would still be like, oh, yeah, no, I want a big fucking rock and it better not be lab made.
Fuck that. You could be a Bella Abzug feminist and you would still be like, oh, yeah, no, I want a big fucking rock and it better not be lab made.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And there's no problem with that. Of course. But I don't then create a whole fiction as to why this is good for society.
And there's no problem with that. Of course. But I don't then create a whole fiction as to why this is good for society.
And there's no problem with that. Of course. But I don't then create a whole fiction as to why this is good for society.
And you have to know what's working, what's not, and be able to shift, right? So it's the same exact thing. It's just my audience is a judge. And I'm really here, like our job's the same. We're here to manipulate people's emotional states.
And you have to know what's working, what's not, and be able to shift, right? So it's the same exact thing. It's just my audience is a judge. And I'm really here, like our job's the same. We're here to manipulate people's emotional states.
And you have to know what's working, what's not, and be able to shift, right? So it's the same exact thing. It's just my audience is a judge. And I'm really here, like our job's the same. We're here to manipulate people's emotional states.
If it doesn't go well. What my attitude is, by the way, and if you want to buy into any of the antiquated gunk, you have every right to. But I think you and this person who you've picked out of eight groups billion other options. Yes. You're saying this is my person. Yeah. And who is more qualified than the two of you to agree on the rules?
If it doesn't go well. What my attitude is, by the way, and if you want to buy into any of the antiquated gunk, you have every right to. But I think you and this person who you've picked out of eight groups billion other options. Yes. You're saying this is my person. Yeah. And who is more qualified than the two of you to agree on the rules?
If it doesn't go well. What my attitude is, by the way, and if you want to buy into any of the antiquated gunk, you have every right to. But I think you and this person who you've picked out of eight groups billion other options. Yes. You're saying this is my person. Yeah. And who is more qualified than the two of you to agree on the rules?
To me, that is the point. Because that's a conversation worth having. Even if you don't end up doing a prenup. Having a conversation about, hey, what do we owe each other? What does this mean to you? What do you expect of me? Because I want to meet your expectations.
To me, that is the point. Because that's a conversation worth having. Even if you don't end up doing a prenup. Having a conversation about, hey, what do we owe each other? What does this mean to you? What do you expect of me? Because I want to meet your expectations.
To me, that is the point. Because that's a conversation worth having. Even if you don't end up doing a prenup. Having a conversation about, hey, what do we owe each other? What does this mean to you? What do you expect of me? Because I want to meet your expectations.
I mean, don't you want to know that before you marry this fucking guy?
I mean, don't you want to know that before you marry this fucking guy?
I mean, don't you want to know that before you marry this fucking guy?
Your job is to manipulate people. You want them to laugh, relax, and enjoy. I want the other side to be scared. I want my client to feel safe. I want the judge to like my client and hate the other side. So I'm here just manipulating everybody's emotional state. And to do that well, I have to be very open, receptive, empathetic, and sensitive. The downside of that is, yeah, I'm sensitive.
Your job is to manipulate people. You want them to laugh, relax, and enjoy. I want the other side to be scared. I want my client to feel safe. I want the judge to like my client and hate the other side. So I'm here just manipulating everybody's emotional state. And to do that well, I have to be very open, receptive, empathetic, and sensitive. The downside of that is, yeah, I'm sensitive.
Your job is to manipulate people. You want them to laugh, relax, and enjoy. I want the other side to be scared. I want my client to feel safe. I want the judge to like my client and hate the other side. So I'm here just manipulating everybody's emotional state. And to do that well, I have to be very open, receptive, empathetic, and sensitive. The downside of that is, yeah, I'm sensitive.
Or if she says to you, well, you know, if you earn less than X number of dollars, well, I'd like to have that conversation before we've signed up for that contract.
Or if she says to you, well, you know, if you earn less than X number of dollars, well, I'd like to have that conversation before we've signed up for that contract.
Or if she says to you, well, you know, if you earn less than X number of dollars, well, I'd like to have that conversation before we've signed up for that contract.
Saying I do. isn't saying I can, it's saying I'll try. At best. At best. You know, like at best, what you say when you say I do is you're saying I'm making you a promise. And if you're not fucking three, you know people break promises, right? So really what you're saying when you make a promise is I'm going to really try. I'm going to try my best. I'm going to try my best.
Saying I do. isn't saying I can, it's saying I'll try. At best. At best. You know, like at best, what you say when you say I do is you're saying I'm making you a promise. And if you're not fucking three, you know people break promises, right? So really what you're saying when you make a promise is I'm going to really try. I'm going to try my best. I'm going to try my best.
Saying I do. isn't saying I can, it's saying I'll try. At best. At best. You know, like at best, what you say when you say I do is you're saying I'm making you a promise. And if you're not fucking three, you know people break promises, right? So really what you're saying when you make a promise is I'm going to really try. I'm going to try my best. I'm going to try my best.
I'm going to try my best to love you. I'm going to try my best to take everything that you bring to this relationship and see it in good faith. And I'm not going to attribute negative intentions. I'm going to cheer for you. And you're going to cheer for me. And I'm going to see your blind spots. And when I have to call you out, I'm going to do it with love.
I'm going to try my best to love you. I'm going to try my best to take everything that you bring to this relationship and see it in good faith. And I'm not going to attribute negative intentions. I'm going to cheer for you. And you're going to cheer for me. And I'm going to see your blind spots. And when I have to call you out, I'm going to do it with love.
I'm going to try my best to love you. I'm going to try my best to take everything that you bring to this relationship and see it in good faith. And I'm not going to attribute negative intentions. I'm going to cheer for you. And you're going to cheer for me. And I'm going to see your blind spots. And when I have to call you out, I'm going to do it with love.
And I'm going to try to say to you, babe, I think this is going to hurt you long term, what you're doing right now. Yeah. What is more beautiful than that? Who would disagree with that? But again, like why not call those terms out in advance and have that conversation?
And I'm going to try to say to you, babe, I think this is going to hurt you long term, what you're doing right now. Yeah. What is more beautiful than that? Who would disagree with that? But again, like why not call those terms out in advance and have that conversation?
And I'm going to try to say to you, babe, I think this is going to hurt you long term, what you're doing right now. Yeah. What is more beautiful than that? Who would disagree with that? But again, like why not call those terms out in advance and have that conversation?
And the government, by the way, is changing it, but they're changing it the way the government changes things, which is way late in the game. So it's like they don't catch up. Like there's a reason why the IRS's lawyers and the tax lawyers that get paid millions of dollars, the tax lawyers that get paid millions of dollars are always four steps ahead of these fucking guys.
And the government, by the way, is changing it, but they're changing it the way the government changes things, which is way late in the game. So it's like they don't catch up. Like there's a reason why the IRS's lawyers and the tax lawyers that get paid millions of dollars, the tax lawyers that get paid millions of dollars are always four steps ahead of these fucking guys.
And the government, by the way, is changing it, but they're changing it the way the government changes things, which is way late in the game. So it's like they don't catch up. Like there's a reason why the IRS's lawyers and the tax lawyers that get paid millions of dollars, the tax lawyers that get paid millions of dollars are always four steps ahead of these fucking guys.
Like the top of the class goes to work for these firms. Why? Because they have every incentive to do that. So for me saying, you know what? I trust the government so much. That I know they'll change the law to protect me. That's the most naive thing I've ever heard a human being say.
Like the top of the class goes to work for these firms. Why? Because they have every incentive to do that. So for me saying, you know what? I trust the government so much. That I know they'll change the law to protect me. That's the most naive thing I've ever heard a human being say.
Like the top of the class goes to work for these firms. Why? Because they have every incentive to do that. So for me saying, you know what? I trust the government so much. That I know they'll change the law to protect me. That's the most naive thing I've ever heard a human being say.
And this is the mistake. People come into this and they think prenups were designed for wealthy people only, right? And by the way, there's a reason why. Because look, there's times where a person comes to the marriage, they have a tremendous amount of assets.
And this is the mistake. People come into this and they think prenups were designed for wealthy people only, right? And by the way, there's a reason why. Because look, there's times where a person comes to the marriage, they have a tremendous amount of assets.
And this is the mistake. People come into this and they think prenups were designed for wealthy people only, right? And by the way, there's a reason why. Because look, there's times where a person comes to the marriage, they have a tremendous amount of assets.
And they say, look, I've got a ton of money. You know, if in an alternate universe, you are you now at your level of success. Yes. And you meet a lovely young woman and you say, you know what? Let's get it. Let's do this thing. Yeah. If you get divorced in three months, you should get half of everything. That's fucking crazy.
And they say, look, I've got a ton of money. You know, if in an alternate universe, you are you now at your level of success. Yes. And you meet a lovely young woman and you say, you know what? Let's get it. Let's do this thing. Yeah. If you get divorced in three months, you should get half of everything. That's fucking crazy.
And they say, look, I've got a ton of money. You know, if in an alternate universe, you are you now at your level of success. Yes. And you meet a lovely young woman and you say, you know what? Let's get it. Let's do this thing. Yeah. If you get divorced in three months, you should get half of everything. That's fucking crazy.
Well, and there's still very complicated things, which is how guys like me make a lot of money. Because what happens is we have what's called transmutation, which is if you had a separate property asset, meaning something you owned before the marriage- And then you get married and you mix an asset that you earned during the marriage or income earned during the marriage with your premarital money.
Well, and there's still very complicated things, which is how guys like me make a lot of money. Because what happens is we have what's called transmutation, which is if you had a separate property asset, meaning something you owned before the marriage- And then you get married and you mix an asset that you earned during the marriage or income earned during the marriage with your premarital money.
Well, and there's still very complicated things, which is how guys like me make a lot of money. Because what happens is we have what's called transmutation, which is if you had a separate property asset, meaning something you owned before the marriage- And then you get married and you mix an asset that you earned during the marriage or income earned during the marriage with your premarital money.
Yes. You turn that the separate into marital. So we have what's called the marital presumption, which is basically so like think of it. I always tell clients, think about it like, you know, a your separate property. Premarital money is like a bowl of water. And marital money is like a drop of red dye. You drop that in. You can't take it back out. The whole thing's pink.
Yes. You turn that the separate into marital. So we have what's called the marital presumption, which is basically so like think of it. I always tell clients, think about it like, you know, a your separate property. Premarital money is like a bowl of water. And marital money is like a drop of red dye. You drop that in. You can't take it back out. The whole thing's pink.
Yes. You turn that the separate into marital. So we have what's called the marital presumption, which is basically so like think of it. I always tell clients, think about it like, you know, a your separate property. Premarital money is like a bowl of water. And marital money is like a drop of red dye. You drop that in. You can't take it back out. The whole thing's pink.
I'm empathetic. I feel a lot of it. I represent the client, but I also represent the system. And I don't always believe in the client, but I believe in the system.
I'm empathetic. I feel a lot of it. I represent the client, but I also represent the system. And I don't always believe in the client, but I believe in the system.
I'm empathetic. I feel a lot of it. I represent the client, but I also represent the system. And I don't always believe in the client, but I believe in the system.
And you know I get paid a lot of money per hour to make that argument.
And you know I get paid a lot of money per hour to make that argument.
And you know I get paid a lot of money per hour to make that argument.
And then the other lawyer gets paid a bunch of money by the hour to say, no, no, no, there was no donative intent, there was no consideration. So the reality is, is why are we making money on this? Why couldn't the two of you in advance just sit down and say, hey, you know what? Let's put aside some, like, let's decide the rule set. If we put it in your name, it's this.
And then the other lawyer gets paid a bunch of money by the hour to say, no, no, no, there was no donative intent, there was no consideration. So the reality is, is why are we making money on this? Why couldn't the two of you in advance just sit down and say, hey, you know what? Let's put aside some, like, let's decide the rule set. If we put it in your name, it's this.
And then the other lawyer gets paid a bunch of money by the hour to say, no, no, no, there was no donative intent, there was no consideration. So the reality is, is why are we making money on this? Why couldn't the two of you in advance just sit down and say, hey, you know what? Let's put aside some, like, let's decide the rule set. If we put it in your name, it's this.
If we put it in joint sets, we'll split it 50-50. If we use premarital money, we'll do it this way. Have that fucking conversation.
If we put it in joint sets, we'll split it 50-50. If we use premarital money, we'll do it this way. Have that fucking conversation.
If we put it in joint sets, we'll split it 50-50. If we use premarital money, we'll do it this way. Have that fucking conversation.
And by the way, people that don't have as much are the ones who really have to worry about how do we divide it and protect it. Because if you got hundreds of millions of dollars- Give her 20 million. Right. But if you're in a situation where like most people, you're kind of basically getting by, well, now you're gonna have two electric bills and two cable bills and two everything.
And by the way, people that don't have as much are the ones who really have to worry about how do we divide it and protect it. Because if you got hundreds of millions of dollars- Give her 20 million. Right. But if you're in a situation where like most people, you're kind of basically getting by, well, now you're gonna have two electric bills and two cable bills and two everything.
And by the way, people that don't have as much are the ones who really have to worry about how do we divide it and protect it. Because if you got hundreds of millions of dollars- Give her 20 million. Right. But if you're in a situation where like most people, you're kind of basically getting by, well, now you're gonna have two electric bills and two cable bills and two everything.
And I just don't think it makes it unromantic. Like, we all know life ends. Does that mean life's not, like, did you ever go like, well, I'm going to die someday? so I might as well just die now. No, the beauty is going through the press. You're watching a movie and someone says, oh, the movie's gonna end. You don't go, well, fuck it, I'm not even gonna watch it.
And I just don't think it makes it unromantic. Like, we all know life ends. Does that mean life's not, like, did you ever go like, well, I'm going to die someday? so I might as well just die now. No, the beauty is going through the press. You're watching a movie and someone says, oh, the movie's gonna end. You don't go, well, fuck it, I'm not even gonna watch it.
And I just don't think it makes it unromantic. Like, we all know life ends. Does that mean life's not, like, did you ever go like, well, I'm going to die someday? so I might as well just die now. No, the beauty is going through the press. You're watching a movie and someone says, oh, the movie's gonna end. You don't go, well, fuck it, I'm not even gonna watch it.
I was talking about it on Mark's show some time ago when I represented a guy who was a pimp. Like literally a pimp. That was his job. Like he actually was, you know, I mean, he had other he's in federal prison now for guns, but he he was an atrocious human being. He was an abuser. He was.
I was talking about it on Mark's show some time ago when I represented a guy who was a pimp. Like literally a pimp. That was his job. Like he actually was, you know, I mean, he had other he's in federal prison now for guns, but he he was an atrocious human being. He was an abuser. He was.
I was talking about it on Mark's show some time ago when I represented a guy who was a pimp. Like literally a pimp. That was his job. Like he actually was, you know, I mean, he had other he's in federal prison now for guns, but he he was an atrocious human being. He was an abuser. He was.
No, the beauty is to watch the movie and know that this is a temporary thing. Look, every marriage ends. It ends in death or in divorce. Your marriage will end, I promise. I hope so. That's a weird thing to say to a person. I hope your marriage ends in death. But I do. I hope that's how your marriage ends. Because the only two options is it's gonna end in death or divorce.
No, the beauty is to watch the movie and know that this is a temporary thing. Look, every marriage ends. It ends in death or in divorce. Your marriage will end, I promise. I hope so. That's a weird thing to say to a person. I hope your marriage ends in death. But I do. I hope that's how your marriage ends. Because the only two options is it's gonna end in death or divorce.
No, the beauty is to watch the movie and know that this is a temporary thing. Look, every marriage ends. It ends in death or in divorce. Your marriage will end, I promise. I hope so. That's a weird thing to say to a person. I hope your marriage ends in death. But I do. I hope that's how your marriage ends. Because the only two options is it's gonna end in death or divorce.
So you have life insurance. No one ever would look at you and go, you're so morbid with that life insurance. Like, why would you think you have to do that? I'm protecting these people that I love. Like, I know something's good. Okay, so what is wrong with two people? When I was early in my career, I decided, I thought, you know what? They had these wedding fairs.
So you have life insurance. No one ever would look at you and go, you're so morbid with that life insurance. Like, why would you think you have to do that? I'm protecting these people that I love. Like, I know something's good. Okay, so what is wrong with two people? When I was early in my career, I decided, I thought, you know what? They had these wedding fairs.
So you have life insurance. No one ever would look at you and go, you're so morbid with that life insurance. Like, why would you think you have to do that? I'm protecting these people that I love. Like, I know something's good. Okay, so what is wrong with two people? When I was early in my career, I decided, I thought, you know what? They had these wedding fairs.
Have you ever seen, I don't know if any of you were forced to do, you chose well if you didn't have to do this.
Have you ever seen, I don't know if any of you were forced to do, you chose well if you didn't have to do this.
Have you ever seen, I don't know if any of you were forced to do, you chose well if you didn't have to do this.
You did well with the women in your lives.
You did well with the women in your lives.
You did well with the women in your lives.
This is like a whole Indian thing. You ever want to see sad men? about that thing. Like, they're just like, hold, you know, it's like if you took her to the car show. Like, she's just like, what the fuck are we doing here? So, you know, but these things, they have photographers, the cake people, the invitations, the little sweats, all of the, the whole wedding industrial complex.
This is like a whole Indian thing. You ever want to see sad men? about that thing. Like, they're just like, hold, you know, it's like if you took her to the car show. Like, she's just like, what the fuck are we doing here? So, you know, but these things, they have photographers, the cake people, the invitations, the little sweats, all of the, the whole wedding industrial complex.
This is like a whole Indian thing. You ever want to see sad men? about that thing. Like, they're just like, hold, you know, it's like if you took her to the car show. Like, she's just like, what the fuck are we doing here? So, you know, but these things, they have photographers, the cake people, the invitations, the little sweats, all of the, the whole wedding industrial complex.
these fucking people they're making they're monsters they're full-on monsters all right because they convince her it's like you're you're you're actually gonna have a wedding and not give away scented candles you don't care about your family i guess you don't have to have the scented candles but i went and i said hey listen um can i get a table Can I have a table? Like you pay like 10 grand.
these fucking people they're making they're monsters they're full-on monsters all right because they convince her it's like you're you're you're actually gonna have a wedding and not give away scented candles you don't care about your family i guess you don't have to have the scented candles but i went and i said hey listen um can i get a table Can I have a table? Like you pay like 10 grand.
these fucking people they're making they're monsters they're full-on monsters all right because they convince her it's like you're you're you're actually gonna have a wedding and not give away scented candles you don't care about your family i guess you don't have to have the scented candles but i went and i said hey listen um can i get a table Can I have a table? Like you pay like 10 grand.
Can I have a table? Just for pre-nups. Just for pre-nups. I said, and I promise I'll do it very respectfully and say, hey, congratulations on your engagement. Let's talk about pre-nups. They wouldn't take my fucking money. They wouldn't let me in the door because, and why? Because there's a fucking fantasy they're selling people and don't let reality get into the fantasy. And see for me,
Can I have a table? Just for pre-nups. Just for pre-nups. I said, and I promise I'll do it very respectfully and say, hey, congratulations on your engagement. Let's talk about pre-nups. They wouldn't take my fucking money. They wouldn't let me in the door because, and why? Because there's a fucking fantasy they're selling people and don't let reality get into the fantasy. And see for me,
Can I have a table? Just for pre-nups. Just for pre-nups. I said, and I promise I'll do it very respectfully and say, hey, congratulations on your engagement. Let's talk about pre-nups. They wouldn't take my fucking money. They wouldn't let me in the door because, and why? Because there's a fucking fantasy they're selling people and don't let reality get into the fantasy. And see for me,
I think I'm actually a true romantic because I like reality. And my attitude is I like somebody who looks at the situation and goes, you know what? Whether we win, whether we lose, let's play this fucking game. Let's do this thing.
I think I'm actually a true romantic because I like reality. And my attitude is I like somebody who looks at the situation and goes, you know what? Whether we win, whether we lose, let's play this fucking game. Let's do this thing.
I think I'm actually a true romantic because I like reality. And my attitude is I like somebody who looks at the situation and goes, you know what? Whether we win, whether we lose, let's play this fucking game. Let's do this thing.
Let's shoot for it. This is a game we can't win. We're either going to die and lose each other or we're going to divorce and lose each other. But fuck. Fuck it. I want to take this ride.
Let's shoot for it. This is a game we can't win. We're either going to die and lose each other or we're going to divorce and lose each other. But fuck. Fuck it. I want to take this ride.
Let's shoot for it. This is a game we can't win. We're either going to die and lose each other or we're going to divorce and lose each other. But fuck. Fuck it. I want to take this ride.
And I was up against an adversary who was an unskilled attorney and very like it was all this woman could afford. And I absolutely ran her over and we walked out of court. And the guy pat me on the back and he said, man, one good lawyer's worth 20 stick-up men. And I just remember thinking, like, I want to go home and just take a shower right now because that just feels dirty. That's crazy.
And I was up against an adversary who was an unskilled attorney and very like it was all this woman could afford. And I absolutely ran her over and we walked out of court. And the guy pat me on the back and he said, man, one good lawyer's worth 20 stick-up men. And I just remember thinking, like, I want to go home and just take a shower right now because that just feels dirty. That's crazy.
And I was up against an adversary who was an unskilled attorney and very like it was all this woman could afford. And I absolutely ran her over and we walked out of court. And the guy pat me on the back and he said, man, one good lawyer's worth 20 stick-up men. And I just remember thinking, like, I want to go home and just take a shower right now because that just feels dirty. That's crazy.
25 years I've been doing prenups, and I always end up having a good relationship with the person at the end of the transaction. Because unlike a divorce, it's not protracted. It's relatively inexpensive. Yeah. I've probably only had to do three divorces, four divorces of people I didn't prenup.
25 years I've been doing prenups, and I always end up having a good relationship with the person at the end of the transaction. Because unlike a divorce, it's not protracted. It's relatively inexpensive. Yeah. I've probably only had to do three divorces, four divorces of people I didn't prenup.
25 years I've been doing prenups, and I always end up having a good relationship with the person at the end of the transaction. Because unlike a divorce, it's not protracted. It's relatively inexpensive. Yeah. I've probably only had to do three divorces, four divorces of people I didn't prenup.
You'll never know. And here's why. A prenup's not filed anywhere. Like I have celebrity clients who I did their prenup. That'd be really impressive. And they are doing interviews saying, oh, we don't have a prenup. And I'm like, yeah, you fucking do. It's in my safe. I wrote it. But they tell people because why? It's one of those things. Everything I need. So here's the cake.
You'll never know. And here's why. A prenup's not filed anywhere. Like I have celebrity clients who I did their prenup. That'd be really impressive. And they are doing interviews saying, oh, we don't have a prenup. And I'm like, yeah, you fucking do. It's in my safe. I wrote it. But they tell people because why? It's one of those things. Everything I need. So here's the cake.
You'll never know. And here's why. A prenup's not filed anywhere. Like I have celebrity clients who I did their prenup. That'd be really impressive. And they are doing interviews saying, oh, we don't have a prenup. And I'm like, yeah, you fucking do. It's in my safe. I wrote it. But they tell people because why? It's one of those things. Everything I need. So here's the cake.
Oh, here's this ticket out flowers. No one's ever like, here's the signing the pre.
Oh, here's this ticket out flowers. No one's ever like, here's the signing the pre.
Oh, here's this ticket out flowers. No one's ever like, here's the signing the pre.
You know, it's all social stigma. And there's no reason we have to normalize prenups. We have to democratize prenups. We have to be like, by the way, prenups are the, they're, they are, they are so unbelievably easy for attorneys to draft. Like, no one is making a bunch of money on prenups. Like, we make our money on litigation. We make money on the way out, not on the way in.
You know, it's all social stigma. And there's no reason we have to normalize prenups. We have to democratize prenups. We have to be like, by the way, prenups are the, they're, they are, they are so unbelievably easy for attorneys to draft. Like, no one is making a bunch of money on prenups. Like, we make our money on litigation. We make money on the way out, not on the way in.
You know, it's all social stigma. And there's no reason we have to normalize prenups. We have to democratize prenups. We have to be like, by the way, prenups are the, they're, they are, they are so unbelievably easy for attorneys to draft. Like, no one is making a bunch of money on prenups. Like, we make our money on litigation. We make money on the way out, not on the way in.
So the truth is, like, there is no reason why it has to be reserved for the wealthy. This is something that can be democratized. There can be an access to justice. People could go, even with AI technology that's out there now. Listen, I've been involved in a startup called Trusted Prenup. And our thing is going to be, we are going to democratize prenups.
So the truth is, like, there is no reason why it has to be reserved for the wealthy. This is something that can be democratized. There can be an access to justice. People could go, even with AI technology that's out there now. Listen, I've been involved in a startup called Trusted Prenup. And our thing is going to be, we are going to democratize prenups.
So the truth is, like, there is no reason why it has to be reserved for the wealthy. This is something that can be democratized. There can be an access to justice. People could go, even with AI technology that's out there now. Listen, I've been involved in a startup called Trusted Prenup. And our thing is going to be, we are going to democratize prenups.
It's coming soon because AI has made it possible now for there to be like a tree menu where people go in and go, okay, what do we want to do with Alamo? Okay, what do we want to do when it comes to our estates? What do we want to do? And you can just pick and put it together, spit that document out. And by the way, it's not filed anywhere. You don't have to tell anybody that you did it.
It's coming soon because AI has made it possible now for there to be like a tree menu where people go in and go, okay, what do we want to do with Alamo? Okay, what do we want to do when it comes to our estates? What do we want to do? And you can just pick and put it together, spit that document out. And by the way, it's not filed anywhere. You don't have to tell anybody that you did it.
It's coming soon because AI has made it possible now for there to be like a tree menu where people go in and go, okay, what do we want to do with Alamo? Okay, what do we want to do when it comes to our estates? What do we want to do? And you can just pick and put it together, spit that document out. And by the way, it's not filed anywhere. You don't have to tell anybody that you did it.
It can just be a discussion between you and this partner that you tell the most intimate things to, you have the most intimate experiences with. Why can't you have honest conversations about that?
It can just be a discussion between you and this partner that you tell the most intimate things to, you have the most intimate experiences with. Why can't you have honest conversations about that?
It can just be a discussion between you and this partner that you tell the most intimate things to, you have the most intimate experiences with. Why can't you have honest conversations about that?
Who is this? Is that last week? Did you have different haircuts? You're like, no, that was a rerun, but it was a good one.
Who is this? Is that last week? Did you have different haircuts? You're like, no, that was a rerun, but it was a good one.
Who is this? Is that last week? Did you have different haircuts? You're like, no, that was a rerun, but it was a good one.
I texted Mark this morning. And I said, I was like, you got to tell your wife that you're spending the day with a divorce lawyer. You'll definitely get something this morning.
I texted Mark this morning. And I said, I was like, you got to tell your wife that you're spending the day with a divorce lawyer. You'll definitely get something this morning.
I texted Mark this morning. And I said, I was like, you got to tell your wife that you're spending the day with a divorce lawyer. You'll definitely get something this morning.
Well, what I'll say is I think it's irresponsible to marry without a prenup. I'm not again. Listen, if you people want to do dumb shit like you want to do some dumb shit, do some dumb shit.
Well, what I'll say is I think it's irresponsible to marry without a prenup. I'm not again. Listen, if you people want to do dumb shit like you want to do some dumb shit, do some dumb shit.
Well, what I'll say is I think it's irresponsible to marry without a prenup. I'm not again. Listen, if you people want to do dumb shit like you want to do some dumb shit, do some dumb shit.
Well, what's even more amazing about marriage, if you want to take the car analogy a little bit further, like, all right, so you get married in your 20s or your 30s, right? All right, when you're 20 years old, if I said to you, you can have any car in the world, what car do you want? You'd be like Ferrari, Lamborghini, whatever, Aston Martin, anything. It might be a muscle car, okay? Yeah.
Well, what's even more amazing about marriage, if you want to take the car analogy a little bit further, like, all right, so you get married in your 20s or your 30s, right? All right, when you're 20 years old, if I said to you, you can have any car in the world, what car do you want? You'd be like Ferrari, Lamborghini, whatever, Aston Martin, anything. It might be a muscle car, okay? Yeah.
Well, what's even more amazing about marriage, if you want to take the car analogy a little bit further, like, all right, so you get married in your 20s or your 30s, right? All right, when you're 20 years old, if I said to you, you can have any car in the world, what car do you want? You'd be like Ferrari, Lamborghini, whatever, Aston Martin, anything. It might be a muscle car, okay? Yeah.
You're and then after you bought it, I said, by the way, it's the only car you're ever going to have your whole fucking life. You'd be like, wait, what? Because I don't want to be 80 getting out of a Ferrari. Like I'm good. And if I have kids, where am I going to put the car seat? Marriage is you are choosing this person.
You're and then after you bought it, I said, by the way, it's the only car you're ever going to have your whole fucking life. You'd be like, wait, what? Because I don't want to be 80 getting out of a Ferrari. Like I'm good. And if I have kids, where am I going to put the car seat? Marriage is you are choosing this person.
You're and then after you bought it, I said, by the way, it's the only car you're ever going to have your whole fucking life. You'd be like, wait, what? Because I don't want to be 80 getting out of a Ferrari. Like I'm good. And if I have kids, where am I going to put the car seat? Marriage is you are choosing this person.
And theoretically, you are saying in your 20s or 30s, you are saying this person for the rest of my life. Now, again, at best. It's like those trees that grow next to each other and then become entwined. And it's like, they grow together and they, they become something different, but they become something different together.
And theoretically, you are saying in your 20s or 30s, you are saying this person for the rest of my life. Now, again, at best. It's like those trees that grow next to each other and then become entwined. And it's like, they grow together and they, they become something different, but they become something different together.
And theoretically, you are saying in your 20s or 30s, you are saying this person for the rest of my life. Now, again, at best. It's like those trees that grow next to each other and then become entwined. And it's like, they grow together and they, they become something different, but they become something different together.
I think you have to. And move on. I think you have to because, look, what I'll tell you is the truth has a way of coming out, sometimes despite my best efforts.
I think you have to. And move on. I think you have to because, look, what I'll tell you is the truth has a way of coming out, sometimes despite my best efforts.
I think you have to. And move on. I think you have to because, look, what I'll tell you is the truth has a way of coming out, sometimes despite my best efforts.
So like, that's amazing when it's done the right way, but, but to suggest that like, Oh, it'll never change. We're always going to be like we were when we fell in love. That's foolish.
So like, that's amazing when it's done the right way, but, but to suggest that like, Oh, it'll never change. We're always going to be like we were when we fell in love. That's foolish.
So like, that's amazing when it's done the right way, but, but to suggest that like, Oh, it'll never change. We're always going to be like we were when we fell in love. That's foolish.
I've learned a lot by being a divorce lawyer about what keeps people together. What I've learned, I would say more than anything else is just pay attention. People get divorced the same way they go bankrupt, very slowly and then all at once.
I've learned a lot by being a divorce lawyer about what keeps people together. What I've learned, I would say more than anything else is just pay attention. People get divorced the same way they go bankrupt, very slowly and then all at once.
I've learned a lot by being a divorce lawyer about what keeps people together. What I've learned, I would say more than anything else is just pay attention. People get divorced the same way they go bankrupt, very slowly and then all at once.
I got really self-conscious. I know regretting the marriage face and you don't have to.
I got really self-conscious. I know regretting the marriage face and you don't have to.
I got really self-conscious. I know regretting the marriage face and you don't have to.
Yeah, well, that's what ended up happening with that guy, is he ended up in federal prison. I mean, I think the truth has a way of coming out. I have to tell my clients that sometimes. Like, look, I can throw up a lot of smoke and mirrors, but shit comes out. Like, the truth comes out.
Yeah, well, that's what ended up happening with that guy, is he ended up in federal prison. I mean, I think the truth has a way of coming out. I have to tell my clients that sometimes. Like, look, I can throw up a lot of smoke and mirrors, but shit comes out. Like, the truth comes out.
Yeah, well, that's what ended up happening with that guy, is he ended up in federal prison. I mean, I think the truth has a way of coming out. I have to tell my clients that sometimes. Like, look, I can throw up a lot of smoke and mirrors, but shit comes out. Like, the truth comes out.
The thought that someone can change the terms and conditions and you can't opt out.
The thought that someone can change the terms and conditions and you can't opt out.
The thought that someone can change the terms and conditions and you can't opt out.
Well, and that's the funny thing because like, you know, a lot of like... You know, I did an interview with Matt Walsh a bunch of months ago on The Daily Wire, and he was all about, like, no-fault divorce, no-fault divorce is the worst. What does that mean? So New York is a no-fault state. Most states are now no-fault states, which means you don't have to prove why you're getting divorced.
Well, and that's the funny thing because like, you know, a lot of like... You know, I did an interview with Matt Walsh a bunch of months ago on The Daily Wire, and he was all about, like, no-fault divorce, no-fault divorce is the worst. What does that mean? So New York is a no-fault state. Most states are now no-fault states, which means you don't have to prove why you're getting divorced.
Well, and that's the funny thing because like, you know, a lot of like... You know, I did an interview with Matt Walsh a bunch of months ago on The Daily Wire, and he was all about, like, no-fault divorce, no-fault divorce is the worst. What does that mean? So New York is a no-fault state. Most states are now no-fault states, which means you don't have to prove why you're getting divorced.
You don't have to have fault. It used to be you had to show adultery, you had to show incurable mental illness, you had to call abandonment. So it was great for lawyers because we had to, like, before we even got into the real fight, we had to get into a fight of, are you allowed to get divorced? So the states eventually said, look, this is stupid.
You don't have to have fault. It used to be you had to show adultery, you had to show incurable mental illness, you had to call abandonment. So it was great for lawyers because we had to, like, before we even got into the real fight, we had to get into a fight of, are you allowed to get divorced? So the states eventually said, look, this is stupid.
You don't have to have fault. It used to be you had to show adultery, you had to show incurable mental illness, you had to call abandonment. So it was great for lawyers because we had to, like, before we even got into the real fight, we had to get into a fight of, are you allowed to get divorced? So the states eventually said, look, this is stupid.
If one person in the marriage has decided the marriage is over, guess what? The marriage is over. So now we're no fault. Well, a lot of people on the far right, Matt Walsh, Ben Shapiro, it was like their big flavor of the moment for a little while was they were saying no fault divorce is the worst thing in the whole wide world.
If one person in the marriage has decided the marriage is over, guess what? The marriage is over. So now we're no fault. Well, a lot of people on the far right, Matt Walsh, Ben Shapiro, it was like their big flavor of the moment for a little while was they were saying no fault divorce is the worst thing in the whole wide world.
If one person in the marriage has decided the marriage is over, guess what? The marriage is over. So now we're no fault. Well, a lot of people on the far right, Matt Walsh, Ben Shapiro, it was like their big flavor of the moment for a little while was they were saying no fault divorce is the worst thing in the whole wide world.
Well, like it's kind of like saying, you know, we got to get rid of all these emergency rooms because like everybody who's in there has broken bones. So people must be breaking bones so they can go to the emergency room. Like that's fucking ridiculous. Like, no, they didn't break it. Like this is just there to solve the problem. They have to pretend to care about it.
Well, like it's kind of like saying, you know, we got to get rid of all these emergency rooms because like everybody who's in there has broken bones. So people must be breaking bones so they can go to the emergency room. Like that's fucking ridiculous. Like, no, they didn't break it. Like this is just there to solve the problem. They have to pretend to care about it.
Well, like it's kind of like saying, you know, we got to get rid of all these emergency rooms because like everybody who's in there has broken bones. So people must be breaking bones so they can go to the emergency room. Like that's fucking ridiculous. Like, no, they didn't break it. Like this is just there to solve the problem. They have to pretend to care about it.
What I said to Matt is, look, why wouldn't we have, why would you have barriers to exit? Why don't you have barriers to entry? Like, why don't you have, you have to take a class or you have to sit down with a person who went through an ugly divorce or like Catholics, they have the pre-cana where you got to sit down and you talk to couples who've been married for 30, 40 years.
What I said to Matt is, look, why wouldn't we have, why would you have barriers to exit? Why don't you have barriers to entry? Like, why don't you have, you have to take a class or you have to sit down with a person who went through an ugly divorce or like Catholics, they have the pre-cana where you got to sit down and you talk to couples who've been married for 30, 40 years.
What I said to Matt is, look, why wouldn't we have, why would you have barriers to exit? Why don't you have barriers to entry? Like, why don't you have, you have to take a class or you have to sit down with a person who went through an ugly divorce or like Catholics, they have the pre-cana where you got to sit down and you talk to couples who've been married for 30, 40 years.
And the guy says, look, you're going to have to say, I'm sorry for some shit. You're not sorry. That's part of being married. And you go, all right, cool. I can live with that. Like have, have some barriers to entry. Like you, you, if you, I adopted a dog from ACC in New York city, you know how much fucking paperwork I had to fill out. They wanted to know my third grade English teacher.
And the guy says, look, you're going to have to say, I'm sorry for some shit. You're not sorry. That's part of being married. And you go, all right, cool. I can live with that. Like have, have some barriers to entry. Like you, you, if you, I adopted a dog from ACC in New York city, you know how much fucking paperwork I had to fill out. They wanted to know my third grade English teacher.
And the guy says, look, you're going to have to say, I'm sorry for some shit. You're not sorry. That's part of being married. And you go, all right, cool. I can live with that. Like have, have some barriers to entry. Like you, you, if you, I adopted a dog from ACC in New York city, you know how much fucking paperwork I had to fill out. They wanted to know my third grade English teacher.
name like they wanted to know like did mrs soible is she think you'd be good but she didn't see me in 40 years you need to have a you want a piss test like i'm adopting a dog you were gonna kill in two days like just give me the fucking dog get married 50 bucks you can pay all this in vegas and you're married all right guys let's take a break for a second i genuinely want to tell you guys about the best protein bar on the planet okay i i mean this sincerely this right here the david bar okay
name like they wanted to know like did mrs soible is she think you'd be good but she didn't see me in 40 years you need to have a you want a piss test like i'm adopting a dog you were gonna kill in two days like just give me the fucking dog get married 50 bucks you can pay all this in vegas and you're married all right guys let's take a break for a second i genuinely want to tell you guys about the best protein bar on the planet okay i i mean this sincerely this right here the david bar okay
name like they wanted to know like did mrs soible is she think you'd be good but she didn't see me in 40 years you need to have a you want a piss test like i'm adopting a dog you were gonna kill in two days like just give me the fucking dog get married 50 bucks you can pay all this in vegas and you're married all right guys let's take a break for a second i genuinely want to tell you guys about the best protein bar on the planet okay i i mean this sincerely this right here the david bar okay
It's called potentially adverse interests.
It's called potentially adverse interests.
It's called potentially adverse interests.
Yeah, yeah. And I can't say, well, because here's the thing, what the lawyer is saying, and they don't say it in artful ways, but what lawyers are saying in that situation is you have potentially adverse interests. More for you is less for her, less for you is more for her, right? But see, again, this is all stuff that technology has made easier.
Yeah, yeah. And I can't say, well, because here's the thing, what the lawyer is saying, and they don't say it in artful ways, but what lawyers are saying in that situation is you have potentially adverse interests. More for you is less for her, less for you is more for her, right? But see, again, this is all stuff that technology has made easier.
Yeah, yeah. And I can't say, well, because here's the thing, what the lawyer is saying, and they don't say it in artful ways, but what lawyers are saying in that situation is you have potentially adverse interests. More for you is less for her, less for you is more for her, right? But see, again, this is all stuff that technology has made easier.
So people come to me and they go, look, my fiance and I want to talk to you about a prenup. I go, look, I'm not allowed to counsel you both, but here's what we can do. Let's do it via Zoom, record the entire thing. She will hear everything. You can play it for whoever you want, including your fiance.
So people come to me and they go, look, my fiance and I want to talk to you about a prenup. I go, look, I'm not allowed to counsel you both, but here's what we can do. Let's do it via Zoom, record the entire thing. She will hear everything. You can play it for whoever you want, including your fiance.
So people come to me and they go, look, my fiance and I want to talk to you about a prenup. I go, look, I'm not allowed to counsel you both, but here's what we can do. Let's do it via Zoom, record the entire thing. She will hear everything. You can play it for whoever you want, including your fiance.
I can't give her legal advice, but I can give you legal advice and you can play for her every word I say to you so that she doesn't feel intimidated. But see, this is the reality is we can do it, solve for the actual problem. So what you're saying is you're absolutely right.
I can't give her legal advice, but I can give you legal advice and you can play for her every word I say to you so that she doesn't feel intimidated. But see, this is the reality is we can do it, solve for the actual problem. So what you're saying is you're absolutely right.
I can't give her legal advice, but I can give you legal advice and you can play for her every word I say to you so that she doesn't feel intimidated. But see, this is the reality is we can do it, solve for the actual problem. So what you're saying is you're absolutely right.
We're taking an adversarial system and you're hiring lawyers whose job theoretically is to protect their individual client at the expense of the other, which by the way, one of the things I'm least proud of my colleagues for is we're so used to dealing with warring tribes in a divorce that then when we're doing a prenup, We approach it the same way.
We're taking an adversarial system and you're hiring lawyers whose job theoretically is to protect their individual client at the expense of the other, which by the way, one of the things I'm least proud of my colleagues for is we're so used to dealing with warring tribes in a divorce that then when we're doing a prenup, We approach it the same way.
We're taking an adversarial system and you're hiring lawyers whose job theoretically is to protect their individual client at the expense of the other, which by the way, one of the things I'm least proud of my colleagues for is we're so used to dealing with warring tribes in a divorce that then when we're doing a prenup, We approach it the same way.
So there should be a different approach. And there can be. We just have to rethink the way we do.
So there should be a different approach. And there can be. We just have to rethink the way we do.
So there should be a different approach. And there can be. We just have to rethink the way we do.
Totally useful.
Totally useful.
Totally useful.
But why can't you go to... It's a much easier sell. And by the way, I think what you said earlier is absolutely correct.
But why can't you go to... It's a much easier sell. And by the way, I think what you said earlier is absolutely correct.
But why can't you go to... It's a much easier sell. And by the way, I think what you said earlier is absolutely correct.
It's an opportunity for people to have a really important discussion.
It's an opportunity for people to have a really important discussion.
It's an opportunity for people to have a really important discussion.
There are lawyers who work collaboratively who'll say, let's all meet together. We each have a lawyer. There's people that work in mediation to mediate a prenup. There's a lot of ways.
There are lawyers who work collaboratively who'll say, let's all meet together. We each have a lawyer. There's people that work in mediation to mediate a prenup. There's a lot of ways.
There are lawyers who work collaboratively who'll say, let's all meet together. We each have a lawyer. There's people that work in mediation to mediate a prenup. There's a lot of ways.
That feels amazing.
That feels amazing.
That feels amazing.
There's so many ways to do it. But again, we're just used to doing it one way. We've handed it off to an adversarial system. And so to a person with a hammer, everything looks like a nail. Like to a person who argues for a living, everything looks like an invitation to have a fucking argument. You know, I get paid to be paranoid. Like my mother tells me she loves me. I ask for references. Me too.
There's so many ways to do it. But again, we're just used to doing it one way. We've handed it off to an adversarial system. And so to a person with a hammer, everything looks like a nail. Like to a person who argues for a living, everything looks like an invitation to have a fucking argument. You know, I get paid to be paranoid. Like my mother tells me she loves me. I ask for references. Me too.
There's so many ways to do it. But again, we're just used to doing it one way. We've handed it off to an adversarial system. And so to a person with a hammer, everything looks like a nail. Like to a person who argues for a living, everything looks like an invitation to have a fucking argument. You know, I get paid to be paranoid. Like my mother tells me she loves me. I ask for references. Me too.
Like that's my job, because I see the worst in people all day long. That's heavy. You know, so what you have to do is you have to get to a place where you go, okay, look, this is a conversation. Like I guarantee when you and your wife did that estate planning, You probably had to have some conversations about like, hey, something happens. Like, who watches the kids?
Like that's my job, because I see the worst in people all day long. That's heavy. You know, so what you have to do is you have to get to a place where you go, okay, look, this is a conversation. Like I guarantee when you and your wife did that estate planning, You probably had to have some conversations about like, hey, something happens. Like, who watches the kids?
Like that's my job, because I see the worst in people all day long. That's heavy. You know, so what you have to do is you have to get to a place where you go, okay, look, this is a conversation. Like I guarantee when you and your wife did that estate planning, You probably had to have some conversations about like, hey, something happens. Like, who watches the kids?
Like, and what do we do about this?
Like, and what do we do about this?
Like, and what do we do about this?
But I tell you, I bet that that deepens the level of connection, intimacy the two of you have. And by the way, doing that estate planning, Like we are never more alive than when we're in the presence of death. Like when you stop and think about, holy shit, if I lost this person, like, what would that feel like? You want to hug that person 50 times more.
But I tell you, I bet that that deepens the level of connection, intimacy the two of you have. And by the way, doing that estate planning, Like we are never more alive than when we're in the presence of death. Like when you stop and think about, holy shit, if I lost this person, like, what would that feel like? You want to hug that person 50 times more.
But I tell you, I bet that that deepens the level of connection, intimacy the two of you have. And by the way, doing that estate planning, Like we are never more alive than when we're in the presence of death. Like when you stop and think about, holy shit, if I lost this person, like, what would that feel like? You want to hug that person 50 times more.
I'll give you a great one. I'm a dog person. I love dogs. So I had a woman come in and she said to me, you know, described this situation of like coercive control, domestic violence she'd been in for ages. And this guy was controlling, abusive in the worst worst possible ways, like insidious ways, but also was an incredibly charming narcissist. So like no one would ever suspect.
I'll give you a great one. I'm a dog person. I love dogs. So I had a woman come in and she said to me, you know, described this situation of like coercive control, domestic violence she'd been in for ages. And this guy was controlling, abusive in the worst worst possible ways, like insidious ways, but also was an incredibly charming narcissist. So like no one would ever suspect.
I'll give you a great one. I'm a dog person. I love dogs. So I had a woman come in and she said to me, you know, described this situation of like coercive control, domestic violence she'd been in for ages. And this guy was controlling, abusive in the worst worst possible ways, like insidious ways, but also was an incredibly charming narcissist. So like no one would ever suspect.
So to me, like early on in a relationship, when you're still madly in love with each other and you're about to sign up for this, you know, I'm marrying you, it's going to be you, you, and only you. That's the time to say, you know what? If we ever hurt each other, if we ever what what do we owe each other? How do we handle that? Like, how do I love you? How do I make you feel safe?
So to me, like early on in a relationship, when you're still madly in love with each other and you're about to sign up for this, you know, I'm marrying you, it's going to be you, you, and only you. That's the time to say, you know what? If we ever hurt each other, if we ever what what do we owe each other? How do we handle that? Like, how do I love you? How do I make you feel safe?
So to me, like early on in a relationship, when you're still madly in love with each other and you're about to sign up for this, you know, I'm marrying you, it's going to be you, you, and only you. That's the time to say, you know what? If we ever hurt each other, if we ever what what do we owe each other? How do we handle that? Like, how do I love you? How do I make you feel safe?
That's a great time to have that conversation.
That's a great time to have that conversation.
That's a great time to have that conversation.
There's mediators. You can go to an attorney and say to the attorney, look, I just want to have an educational conversation about this. I don't want you to draft a prenup necessarily. Again, I think you're going to see in the coming years, I intend to be part of it, you're going to see more of the democratization of prenups.
There's mediators. You can go to an attorney and say to the attorney, look, I just want to have an educational conversation about this. I don't want you to draft a prenup necessarily. Again, I think you're going to see in the coming years, I intend to be part of it, you're going to see more of the democratization of prenups.
There's mediators. You can go to an attorney and say to the attorney, look, I just want to have an educational conversation about this. I don't want you to draft a prenup necessarily. Again, I think you're going to see in the coming years, I intend to be part of it, you're going to see more of the democratization of prenups.
Because I think the younger generation, like I'm older than all of you, and I have to tell you, one of the things, like I look at my 20-something-year-old sons, and I have a lot of hope for the future because I think that You're looking at a situation and going, OK, but why do we do it that way? Like, why do we do it that we don't have to do it that way?
Because I think the younger generation, like I'm older than all of you, and I have to tell you, one of the things, like I look at my 20-something-year-old sons, and I have a lot of hope for the future because I think that You're looking at a situation and going, OK, but why do we do it that way? Like, why do we do it that we don't have to do it that way?
Because I think the younger generation, like I'm older than all of you, and I have to tell you, one of the things, like I look at my 20-something-year-old sons, and I have a lot of hope for the future because I think that You're looking at a situation and going, OK, but why do we do it that way? Like, why do we do it that we don't have to do it that way?
And it's OK for people to say, hey, you know what? We can do it however we want to do it.
And it's OK for people to say, hey, you know what? We can do it however we want to do it.
And it's OK for people to say, hey, you know what? We can do it however we want to do it.
But I'll tell you something. Look, your career has been characterized by being somewhat iconoclastic. Like, I've been a fan since the 441 days.
But I'll tell you something. Look, your career has been characterized by being somewhat iconoclastic. Like, I've been a fan since the 441 days.
But I'll tell you something. Look, your career has been characterized by being somewhat iconoclastic. Like, I've been a fan since the 441 days.
Thank you. And I'm sure when you said, I'm going to put this out myself. Yeah. Some people who genuinely care about you and genuinely wanted to see you succeed said, dude, don't do it that way. You'll never make a dime. And by the way, they were not trying to mislead you. They weren't trying to hurt you. It's not that they didn't trust you. They were looking at it and going,
Thank you. And I'm sure when you said, I'm going to put this out myself. Yeah. Some people who genuinely care about you and genuinely wanted to see you succeed said, dude, don't do it that way. You'll never make a dime. And by the way, they were not trying to mislead you. They weren't trying to hurt you. It's not that they didn't trust you. They were looking at it and going,
Thank you. And I'm sure when you said, I'm going to put this out myself. Yeah. Some people who genuinely care about you and genuinely wanted to see you succeed said, dude, don't do it that way. You'll never make a dime. And by the way, they were not trying to mislead you. They weren't trying to hurt you. It's not that they didn't trust you. They were looking at it and going,
Dude, I don't want to see it go wrong for you. Okay, so people can, in very good faith, give very fucking bad advice, right? Because if that's the right way to do it, they did it fucking wrong. Oh, it reflects their own decision. They did it wrong, right? Because if you go, no, no, I'm going to do it this way, and you knock it out of the park like you did, they go, well, what the fuck was I doing?
Dude, I don't want to see it go wrong for you. Okay, so people can, in very good faith, give very fucking bad advice, right? Because if that's the right way to do it, they did it fucking wrong. Oh, it reflects their own decision. They did it wrong, right? Because if you go, no, no, I'm going to do it this way, and you knock it out of the park like you did, they go, well, what the fuck was I doing?
Dude, I don't want to see it go wrong for you. Okay, so people can, in very good faith, give very fucking bad advice, right? Because if that's the right way to do it, they did it fucking wrong. Oh, it reflects their own decision. They did it wrong, right? Because if you go, no, no, I'm going to do it this way, and you knock it out of the park like you did, they go, well, what the fuck was I doing?
Why did I do it this other way? And the answer is because it was peer pressure from dead people.
Why did I do it this other way? And the answer is because it was peer pressure from dead people.
Why did I do it this other way? And the answer is because it was peer pressure from dead people.
And yet, and I don't mean to use you as an example, I'm not picking on you. Please. You had the intelligence to think of this and the balls to try it. Yeah. Okay?
And yet, and I don't mean to use you as an example, I'm not picking on you. Please. You had the intelligence to think of this and the balls to try it. Yeah. Okay?
And yet, and I don't mean to use you as an example, I'm not picking on you. Please. You had the intelligence to think of this and the balls to try it. Yeah. Okay?
And yet... when it comes to getting married. There was never the thought of like, oh, you know, why am I gonna let the government impose a rule set? Why wouldn't we figure out a way to do it? Now, why? I don't blame you for that. I think it's just never been a conversation we have as a society.
And yet... when it comes to getting married. There was never the thought of like, oh, you know, why am I gonna let the government impose a rule set? Why wouldn't we figure out a way to do it? Now, why? I don't blame you for that. I think it's just never been a conversation we have as a society.
And yet... when it comes to getting married. There was never the thought of like, oh, you know, why am I gonna let the government impose a rule set? Why wouldn't we figure out a way to do it? Now, why? I don't blame you for that. I think it's just never been a conversation we have as a society.
Right. And listen, I think there's a beauty to that. Like, I wish I knew no astronomy when the stars appear. Like, I think, you know, like, I liked it when I was like, look at the pretty lights in the sky. When you're like, oh, actually, that's something that flamed out a million years ago with lights just reaching. I'm like, oh, fuck.
Right. And listen, I think there's a beauty to that. Like, I wish I knew no astronomy when the stars appear. Like, I think, you know, like, I liked it when I was like, look at the pretty lights in the sky. When you're like, oh, actually, that's something that flamed out a million years ago with lights just reaching. I'm like, oh, fuck.
Right. And listen, I think there's a beauty to that. Like, I wish I knew no astronomy when the stars appear. Like, I think, you know, like, I liked it when I was like, look at the pretty lights in the sky. When you're like, oh, actually, that's something that flamed out a million years ago with lights just reaching. I'm like, oh, fuck.
Like if you said to anybody, this guy was an abuser, they'd be like, him?
Like if you said to anybody, this guy was an abuser, they'd be like, him?
Like if you said to anybody, this guy was an abuser, they'd be like, him?
So I think there's something very beautiful about not knowing this stuff. But again, I am a fan. Like, I think the truth is actually even more beautiful. Yeah. Like, I think when two people say, I'm going to give you the ability to hurt me. Like, I love you enough. Because I have to tell you something. I think it's fucking insane to love anything. I really do. Like a dog, a kid.
So I think there's something very beautiful about not knowing this stuff. But again, I am a fan. Like, I think the truth is actually even more beautiful. Yeah. Like, I think when two people say, I'm going to give you the ability to hurt me. Like, I love you enough. Because I have to tell you something. I think it's fucking insane to love anything. I really do. Like a dog, a kid.
So I think there's something very beautiful about not knowing this stuff. But again, I am a fan. Like, I think the truth is actually even more beautiful. Yeah. Like, I think when two people say, I'm going to give you the ability to hurt me. Like, I love you enough. Because I have to tell you something. I think it's fucking insane to love anything. I really do. Like a dog, a kid.
Like, you're going to lose it.
Like, you're going to lose it.
Like, you're going to lose it.
Everything you love, you're going to lose someday. So to love something is to accept the inevitability that it's going to break your fucking heart someday. And yet we do it anyway because it's the best thing.
Everything you love, you're going to lose someday. So to love something is to accept the inevitability that it's going to break your fucking heart someday. And yet we do it anyway because it's the best thing.
Everything you love, you're going to lose someday. So to love something is to accept the inevitability that it's going to break your fucking heart someday. And yet we do it anyway because it's the best thing.
So to me, that makes it more beautiful to say, you know what? If you break my fucking heart, it will have been worth it. It will have been worth it because we got to do this. Sold. Sold.
So to me, that makes it more beautiful to say, you know what? If you break my fucking heart, it will have been worth it. It will have been worth it because we got to do this. Sold. Sold.
So to me, that makes it more beautiful to say, you know what? If you break my fucking heart, it will have been worth it. It will have been worth it because we got to do this. Sold. Sold.
And she told me her story. She said, I'm afraid nobody's going to believe me. He said to me, no one will ever believe you. You know, I'll make sure you're penniless. I'll do whatever I have to do to like crush you. And and I'm listening to this and I've handled a lot of domestic violence cases before. So I was like, OK, look, the system has a way of sorting these things out.
And she told me her story. She said, I'm afraid nobody's going to believe me. He said to me, no one will ever believe you. You know, I'll make sure you're penniless. I'll do whatever I have to do to like crush you. And and I'm listening to this and I've handled a lot of domestic violence cases before. So I was like, OK, look, the system has a way of sorting these things out.
And she told me her story. She said, I'm afraid nobody's going to believe me. He said to me, no one will ever believe you. You know, I'll make sure you're penniless. I'll do whatever I have to do to like crush you. And and I'm listening to this and I've handled a lot of domestic violence cases before. So I was like, OK, look, the system has a way of sorting these things out.
Who, like, treats the... Those are a bunch of different questions you just threw off me. Yeah. I mean, what I'll say is, like, the Russians... Russians, there's, you know, Chekhov's plays are dark for a fucking reason. Like the winters are long. Like Russians come in sometimes to professional hit. Like they get cold.
Who, like, treats the... Those are a bunch of different questions you just threw off me. Yeah. I mean, what I'll say is, like, the Russians... Russians, there's, you know, Chekhov's plays are dark for a fucking reason. Like the winters are long. Like Russians come in sometimes to professional hit. Like they get cold.
Who, like, treats the... Those are a bunch of different questions you just threw off me. Yeah. I mean, what I'll say is, like, the Russians... Russians, there's, you know, Chekhov's plays are dark for a fucking reason. Like the winters are long. Like Russians come in sometimes to professional hit. Like they get cold.
The husband to the wife you're saying or the wife to the husband? The wife more so even. Russian women are, we used to call them the red menace sometimes in the courthouse. Oh yeah, Russian women. Because like they're, I mean, God, it's really hard to say. I mean, you know, like the stereotypes, sometimes stereotypes are a real time saver. Let's just call that out.
The husband to the wife you're saying or the wife to the husband? The wife more so even. Russian women are, we used to call them the red menace sometimes in the courthouse. Oh yeah, Russian women. Because like they're, I mean, God, it's really hard to say. I mean, you know, like the stereotypes, sometimes stereotypes are a real time saver. Let's just call that out.
The husband to the wife you're saying or the wife to the husband? The wife more so even. Russian women are, we used to call them the red menace sometimes in the courthouse. Oh yeah, Russian women. Because like they're, I mean, God, it's really hard to say. I mean, you know, like the stereotypes, sometimes stereotypes are a real time saver. Let's just call that out.
And anyone who's ever dated a Latina woman, they will burn your fucking house down and then ask who Maria was who called. And you're like, that's from work. She's like, well, you should have told me that. And you're like, before you burned the fucking house down? So that can be bad. Russian women, in my experience professionally, not personally, professionally, they...
And anyone who's ever dated a Latina woman, they will burn your fucking house down and then ask who Maria was who called. And you're like, that's from work. She's like, well, you should have told me that. And you're like, before you burned the fucking house down? So that can be bad. Russian women, in my experience professionally, not personally, professionally, they...
And anyone who's ever dated a Latina woman, they will burn your fucking house down and then ask who Maria was who called. And you're like, that's from work. She's like, well, you should have told me that. And you're like, before you burned the fucking house down? So that can be bad. Russian women, in my experience professionally, not personally, professionally, they...
They will, when you are now the enemy, when you have crossed that line, they get fucking ice cold. And there is nothing, when you're married to a Russian woman, there is nothing she won't do for you. And when you're divorcing a Russian woman, there is nothing she won't do to you. Like, she will fuck your shit right up.
They will, when you are now the enemy, when you have crossed that line, they get fucking ice cold. And there is nothing, when you're married to a Russian woman, there is nothing she won't do for you. And when you're divorcing a Russian woman, there is nothing she won't do to you. Like, she will fuck your shit right up.
They will, when you are now the enemy, when you have crossed that line, they get fucking ice cold. And there is nothing, when you're married to a Russian woman, there is nothing she won't do for you. And when you're divorcing a Russian woman, there is nothing she won't do to you. Like, she will fuck your shit right up.
Oh, I mean, they'll surveil the guy. Like, they'll have people follow him. They'll blow him up to the IRS. I've had a couple of people blow him up to the IRS. Yeah. And they'll shoot first and ask questions later. Yeah. Like they'll they'll you know, they'll they'll call the IRS and go, by the way, I called the not I'm thinking about. So I can go. That's a terrible idea. Like, nope.
Oh, I mean, they'll surveil the guy. Like, they'll have people follow him. They'll blow him up to the IRS. I've had a couple of people blow him up to the IRS. Yeah. And they'll shoot first and ask questions later. Yeah. Like they'll they'll you know, they'll they'll call the IRS and go, by the way, I called the not I'm thinking about. So I can go. That's a terrible idea. Like, nope.
Oh, I mean, they'll surveil the guy. Like, they'll have people follow him. They'll blow him up to the IRS. I've had a couple of people blow him up to the IRS. Yeah. And they'll shoot first and ask questions later. Yeah. Like they'll they'll you know, they'll they'll call the IRS and go, by the way, I called the not I'm thinking about. So I can go. That's a terrible idea. Like, nope.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you.
And let's talk about what we can prove and what we can't. And she said, you know, I have something. She said, we have a puppy. We have a six month old black lab puppy. And the ring camera of our doorbell caught him just beating the shit out of this six month old puppy. And I was like, and you have that footage? And she was like, yeah.
And let's talk about what we can prove and what we can't. And she said, you know, I have something. She said, we have a puppy. We have a six month old black lab puppy. And the ring camera of our doorbell caught him just beating the shit out of this six month old puppy. And I was like, and you have that footage? And she was like, yeah.
And let's talk about what we can prove and what we can't. And she said, you know, I have something. She said, we have a puppy. We have a six month old black lab puppy. And the ring camera of our doorbell caught him just beating the shit out of this six month old puppy. And I was like, and you have that footage? And she was like, yeah.
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
Thank you. Thank you.
Thank you. Thank you.
Thank you. Thank you.
And I was like, okay, like give me everything you have and I'll take a look. And I sat there that night and I watched this footage. And as a dog lover, like I was shaking. I mean, it was to listen to it, to hear it, like to watch this guy just beating this puppy. And the puppy like is a puppy, it's tails wagging. It's trying to like kind of get away from him.
And I was like, okay, like give me everything you have and I'll take a look. And I sat there that night and I watched this footage. And as a dog lover, like I was shaking. I mean, it was to listen to it, to hear it, like to watch this guy just beating this puppy. And the puppy like is a puppy, it's tails wagging. It's trying to like kind of get away from him.
And I was like, okay, like give me everything you have and I'll take a look. And I sat there that night and I watched this footage. And as a dog lover, like I was shaking. I mean, it was to listen to it, to hear it, like to watch this guy just beating this puppy. And the puppy like is a puppy, it's tails wagging. It's trying to like kind of get away from him.
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
And like, it doesn't understand what's going on. And I just remember looking at it and thinking like, I'm gonna torture this fucking guy to death. And I called her the next day and I said, I'll take your case. And she was like, well, I'm worried I can't afford you. I'm like, I'll cut my hourly rate in half. I was like, I just want a piece of this fucking guy.
And like, it doesn't understand what's going on. And I just remember looking at it and thinking like, I'm gonna torture this fucking guy to death. And I called her the next day and I said, I'll take your case. And she was like, well, I'm worried I can't afford you. I'm like, I'll cut my hourly rate in half. I was like, I just want a piece of this fucking guy.
And like, it doesn't understand what's going on. And I just remember looking at it and thinking like, I'm gonna torture this fucking guy to death. And I called her the next day and I said, I'll take your case. And she was like, well, I'm worried I can't afford you. I'm like, I'll cut my hourly rate in half. I was like, I just want a piece of this fucking guy.
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or maybe you're the fucking problem yeah yeah and so i think it's worthwhile to have conversations when things start about how they end period what's the dumbest reason you've ever seen for a divorce just on a personal basis really the dumbest one stupid people we had a lot of like weird political divorces since 2016 no way wow oh yeah people that were like yay watches fox news i'm out
or maybe you're the fucking problem yeah yeah and so i think it's worthwhile to have conversations when things start about how they end period what's the dumbest reason you've ever seen for a divorce just on a personal basis really the dumbest one stupid people we had a lot of like weird political divorces since 2016 no way wow oh yeah people that were like yay watches fox news i'm out
or maybe you're the fucking problem yeah yeah and so i think it's worthwhile to have conversations when things start about how they end period what's the dumbest reason you've ever seen for a divorce just on a personal basis really the dumbest one stupid people we had a lot of like weird political divorces since 2016 no way wow oh yeah people that were like yay watches fox news i'm out
Like you watch his Newsmax, I'm gone. Like a lot of like, he voted for Trump.
Like you watch his Newsmax, I'm gone. Like a lot of like, he voted for Trump.
Like you watch his Newsmax, I'm gone. Like a lot of like, he voted for Trump.
I had, I mean, I've always said the saddest one I ever had was this guy was in his like late eighties and he left his wife of like 50 or 60 years for a 50 something year old woman. that he was having an affair with. And what was saddest about it to me was not that this like 60 year marriage was ending. It was that, holy shit, I'm still gonna be led around by my dick when I'm in my 80s.
I had, I mean, I've always said the saddest one I ever had was this guy was in his like late eighties and he left his wife of like 50 or 60 years for a 50 something year old woman. that he was having an affair with. And what was saddest about it to me was not that this like 60 year marriage was ending. It was that, holy shit, I'm still gonna be led around by my dick when I'm in my 80s.
I had, I mean, I've always said the saddest one I ever had was this guy was in his like late eighties and he left his wife of like 50 or 60 years for a 50 something year old woman. that he was having an affair with. And what was saddest about it to me was not that this like 60 year marriage was ending. It was that, holy shit, I'm still gonna be led around by my dick when I'm in my 80s.
Like I legit thought like, I'm not going to be chained to an idiot forever. Like I thought in my eighties, like a beautiful woman would walk by and I would be like, oh, a human being. Like I would just, and instead I'm like, oh my God, I'm going to be 86 and still want to fucking chase skirt. Like that's fucked. Like we're never going to be free.
Like I legit thought like, I'm not going to be chained to an idiot forever. Like I thought in my eighties, like a beautiful woman would walk by and I would be like, oh, a human being. Like I would just, and instead I'm like, oh my God, I'm going to be 86 and still want to fucking chase skirt. Like that's fucked. Like we're never going to be free.
Like I legit thought like, I'm not going to be chained to an idiot forever. Like I thought in my eighties, like a beautiful woman would walk by and I would be like, oh, a human being. Like I would just, and instead I'm like, oh my God, I'm going to be 86 and still want to fucking chase skirt. Like that's fucked. Like we're never going to be free.
So that to me was like, yeah, people get, I mean, people get divorced for some crazy shit. What's the most petty thing you saw in a divorce? I once had a divorce that was, there was a $25 million marital estate. They'd burned several hundred thousand dollars each in council fees. We'd gone through a bunch of litigation. We managed to settle the case.
So that to me was like, yeah, people get, I mean, people get divorced for some crazy shit. What's the most petty thing you saw in a divorce? I once had a divorce that was, there was a $25 million marital estate. They'd burned several hundred thousand dollars each in council fees. We'd gone through a bunch of litigation. We managed to settle the case.
So that to me was like, yeah, people get, I mean, people get divorced for some crazy shit. What's the most petty thing you saw in a divorce? I once had a divorce that was, there was a $25 million marital estate. They'd burned several hundred thousand dollars each in council fees. We'd gone through a bunch of litigation. We managed to settle the case.
And the only thing we were down to was the division of personal property. And we couldn't agree on who got a $45 toaster oven. And the settlement blew up. Wow. The settlement blew up. Wow. $45 fucking dollar.
And the only thing we were down to was the division of personal property. And we couldn't agree on who got a $45 toaster oven. And the settlement blew up. Wow. The settlement blew up. Wow. $45 fucking dollar.
And the only thing we were down to was the division of personal property. And we couldn't agree on who got a $45 toaster oven. And the settlement blew up. Wow. The settlement blew up. Wow. $45 fucking dollar.
I actually did that. I actually said, I'm on Amazon right now. Prime delivery. I will buy everyone in this room this toaster. If we could just sign the fucking deal. Because it's never about the toaster. It wasn't about the fucking toaster. I mean, I have a lot of stories, but I will tell you this is one you'll appreciate. So I had a client who was a devout fundamentalist Christian.
I actually did that. I actually said, I'm on Amazon right now. Prime delivery. I will buy everyone in this room this toaster. If we could just sign the fucking deal. Because it's never about the toaster. It wasn't about the fucking toaster. I mean, I have a lot of stories, but I will tell you this is one you'll appreciate. So I had a client who was a devout fundamentalist Christian.
I actually did that. I actually said, I'm on Amazon right now. Prime delivery. I will buy everyone in this room this toaster. If we could just sign the fucking deal. Because it's never about the toaster. It wasn't about the fucking toaster. I mean, I have a lot of stories, but I will tell you this is one you'll appreciate. So I had a client who was a devout fundamentalist Christian.
And he was later convicted, actually, of molesting kids and went to jail. But that's a side note.
And he was later convicted, actually, of molesting kids and went to jail. But that's a side note.
And he was later convicted, actually, of molesting kids and went to jail. But that's a side note.
Yeah, it's all of you. It's all of you. But he was a great, you know, he was a client that was, he had a lot of money. And we had worked very hard to negotiate a settlement of his case. And the day comes to sign the settlement and to do what's called a voir dire, which is where the judge says to each party, do you understand the settlement? Did you agree to it? Are you under duress?
Yeah, it's all of you. It's all of you. But he was a great, you know, he was a client that was, he had a lot of money. And we had worked very hard to negotiate a settlement of his case. And the day comes to sign the settlement and to do what's called a voir dire, which is where the judge says to each party, do you understand the settlement? Did you agree to it? Are you under duress?
Yeah, it's all of you. It's all of you. But he was a great, you know, he was a client that was, he had a lot of money. And we had worked very hard to negotiate a settlement of his case. And the day comes to sign the settlement and to do what's called a voir dire, which is where the judge says to each party, do you understand the settlement? Did you agree to it? Are you under duress?
You know, so these are the steps. But like, it was great. I got him a great deal, like a great deal. Like this was way better than it would have been at trial. And he didn't have to go through the trial. And this was great for him. And he meets me at the courthouse the morning of it. And he says, Jim, I need to talk to you. I spoke to God last night. I prayed on it. Oh boy.
You know, so these are the steps. But like, it was great. I got him a great deal, like a great deal. Like this was way better than it would have been at trial. And he didn't have to go through the trial. And this was great for him. And he meets me at the courthouse the morning of it. And he says, Jim, I need to talk to you. I spoke to God last night. I prayed on it. Oh boy.
You know, so these are the steps. But like, it was great. I got him a great deal, like a great deal. Like this was way better than it would have been at trial. And he didn't have to go through the trial. And this was great for him. And he meets me at the courthouse the morning of it. And he says, Jim, I need to talk to you. I spoke to God last night. I prayed on it. Oh boy.
And God said to me that I should not, that I should take it to trial. And I said, that is a terrible idea. And I explained to him again, here's all the ways that we're getting value here. Here's all the things, this is what it should be. And he said, no, I'm sorry. I prayed on it. And the Lord has said to me, you know, so of course it fucking blew up. The whole thing went haywire.
And God said to me that I should not, that I should take it to trial. And I said, that is a terrible idea. And I explained to him again, here's all the ways that we're getting value here. Here's all the things, this is what it should be. And he said, no, I'm sorry. I prayed on it. And the Lord has said to me, you know, so of course it fucking blew up. The whole thing went haywire.
And God said to me that I should not, that I should take it to trial. And I said, that is a terrible idea. And I explained to him again, here's all the ways that we're getting value here. Here's all the things, this is what it should be. And he said, no, I'm sorry. I prayed on it. And the Lord has said to me, you know, so of course it fucking blew up. The whole thing went haywire.
That's pretty good. So I took on the case and... You know, I I it was like a professional hit.
That's pretty good. So I took on the case and... You know, I I it was like a professional hit.
That's pretty good. So I took on the case and... You know, I I it was like a professional hit.
Okay. At 11. I talked to him. And he said, Jim, my son in whom I am well pleased. My blessings upon you. By the way, are you going to see Steve later? When you do, tell him, forget that shit I said earlier.
Okay. At 11. I talked to him. And he said, Jim, my son in whom I am well pleased. My blessings upon you. By the way, are you going to see Steve later? When you do, tell him, forget that shit I said earlier.
Okay. At 11. I talked to him. And he said, Jim, my son in whom I am well pleased. My blessings upon you. By the way, are you going to see Steve later? When you do, tell him, forget that shit I said earlier.
You could have just said, I talked to God a half hour later and he said, take the fucking deal.
You could have just said, I talked to God a half hour later and he said, take the fucking deal.
You could have just said, I talked to God a half hour later and he said, take the fucking deal.
So if that ever happens to me again.
So if that ever happens to me again.
So if that ever happens to me again.
He fucked around and he found out. I mean, you know, and there's, listen, man, I, I give people advice and I tell clients all the time, like, look, 850 bucks an hour. I'll mow your fucking lawn. I don't care. Like I was a waiter. I've done worse shit for less money. Yeah.
He fucked around and he found out. I mean, you know, and there's, listen, man, I, I give people advice and I tell clients all the time, like, look, 850 bucks an hour. I'll mow your fucking lawn. I don't care. Like I was a waiter. I've done worse shit for less money. Yeah.
He fucked around and he found out. I mean, you know, and there's, listen, man, I, I give people advice and I tell clients all the time, like, look, 850 bucks an hour. I'll mow your fucking lawn. I don't care. Like I was a waiter. I've done worse shit for less money. Yeah.
But like, you're paying me for advice. So if you want to pay me for advice and ignore it, Go ahead. Your shit blows up. It's good for me. Yeah. Like the more protracted your case is, the better it is for me. I'm trying to put myself out of business here. Like I'm trying to settle your case. But if you want to fuck around and find out, fuck around and find out.
But like, you're paying me for advice. So if you want to pay me for advice and ignore it, Go ahead. Your shit blows up. It's good for me. Yeah. Like the more protracted your case is, the better it is for me. I'm trying to put myself out of business here. Like I'm trying to settle your case. But if you want to fuck around and find out, fuck around and find out.
But like, you're paying me for advice. So if you want to pay me for advice and ignore it, Go ahead. Your shit blows up. It's good for me. Yeah. Like the more protracted your case is, the better it is for me. I'm trying to put myself out of business here. Like I'm trying to settle your case. But if you want to fuck around and find out, fuck around and find out.
Because it's not how it works for me. Like, I look at it as it's a legal issue. It's a puzzle. It's strategy. Like, just like I think if a doctor, you know, is operating on a patient and he finds out that patient is a horrible person in real life, it's like, right, but I'm looking at this as, like, plumbing. I'm looking at this as, like, this is a problem I'm trained to fix. Like, I...
Because it's not how it works for me. Like, I look at it as it's a legal issue. It's a puzzle. It's strategy. Like, just like I think if a doctor, you know, is operating on a patient and he finds out that patient is a horrible person in real life, it's like, right, but I'm looking at this as, like, plumbing. I'm looking at this as, like, this is a problem I'm trained to fix. Like, I...
Because it's not how it works for me. Like, I look at it as it's a legal issue. It's a puzzle. It's strategy. Like, just like I think if a doctor, you know, is operating on a patient and he finds out that patient is a horrible person in real life, it's like, right, but I'm looking at this as, like, plumbing. I'm looking at this as, like, this is a problem I'm trained to fix. Like, I...
I have a God-given talent. Like I don't know how it came about, but like I see seven moves ahead in a courtroom. Like half the time, I don't even know why I'm making an argument I'm making. And then when I think about it, I go, oh, I did that so they would do this so that then I could do this, that then would make the judge.
I have a God-given talent. Like I don't know how it came about, but like I see seven moves ahead in a courtroom. Like half the time, I don't even know why I'm making an argument I'm making. And then when I think about it, I go, oh, I did that so they would do this so that then I could do this, that then would make the judge.
I have a God-given talent. Like I don't know how it came about, but like I see seven moves ahead in a courtroom. Like half the time, I don't even know why I'm making an argument I'm making. And then when I think about it, I go, oh, I did that so they would do this so that then I could do this, that then would make the judge.
Like, and I, if I'd consciously, you know, they've done studies on how by the time there's any micro movement from a pitcher that could be observed by the batter, it's too late for them to start the swing. But there's still people hit fastballs. So there is some exchange of energy that happens there. There's some micro something that can be sensed by a good hitter in baseball.
Like, and I, if I'd consciously, you know, they've done studies on how by the time there's any micro movement from a pitcher that could be observed by the batter, it's too late for them to start the swing. But there's still people hit fastballs. So there is some exchange of energy that happens there. There's some micro something that can be sensed by a good hitter in baseball.
Like, and I, if I'd consciously, you know, they've done studies on how by the time there's any micro movement from a pitcher that could be observed by the batter, it's too late for them to start the swing. But there's still people hit fastballs. So there is some exchange of energy that happens there. There's some micro something that can be sensed by a good hitter in baseball.
It's the same thing. Like I have a talent for this that I don't know where it came from. I feel blessed to have it. I love what I do. Like I love to be able to do something that you love and do it at the highest level and do it well is like the greatest gift in the world. But I really, when I'm in a courtroom, like I am way more comfortable in a courtroom than I am in my living room.
It's the same thing. Like I have a talent for this that I don't know where it came from. I feel blessed to have it. I love what I do. Like I love to be able to do something that you love and do it at the highest level and do it well is like the greatest gift in the world. But I really, when I'm in a courtroom, like I am way more comfortable in a courtroom than I am in my living room.
It's the same thing. Like I have a talent for this that I don't know where it came from. I feel blessed to have it. I love what I do. Like I love to be able to do something that you love and do it at the highest level and do it well is like the greatest gift in the world. But I really, when I'm in a courtroom, like I am way more comfortable in a courtroom than I am in my living room.
I have no idea what to do with myself in my living room. I have no idea. I'm one of those people that like, I'm great in war and terrible in peace. I have no idea what to do with myself. But in a courtroom, I know the rules. I know exactly what to do. And I go in and I am so calm and cool. It's like Neo in the Matrix. Everything slows down and I just know exactly what's expected of me.
I have no idea what to do with myself in my living room. I have no idea. I'm one of those people that like, I'm great in war and terrible in peace. I have no idea what to do with myself. But in a courtroom, I know the rules. I know exactly what to do. And I go in and I am so calm and cool. It's like Neo in the Matrix. Everything slows down and I just know exactly what's expected of me.
I have no idea what to do with myself in my living room. I have no idea. I'm one of those people that like, I'm great in war and terrible in peace. I have no idea what to do with myself. But in a courtroom, I know the rules. I know exactly what to do. And I go in and I am so calm and cool. It's like Neo in the Matrix. Everything slows down and I just know exactly what's expected of me.
And I actually when I got to the courthouse, I shouldn't say this in public, but I will. I'm close enough to retirement. I can get away with it. I actually went up to the court officers who are, you know, the security for the building. They're armed, you know.
And I actually when I got to the courthouse, I shouldn't say this in public, but I will. I'm close enough to retirement. I can get away with it. I actually went up to the court officers who are, you know, the security for the building. They're armed, you know.
And I actually when I got to the courthouse, I shouldn't say this in public, but I will. I'm close enough to retirement. I can get away with it. I actually went up to the court officers who are, you know, the security for the building. They're armed, you know.
And I don't know where that comes from, but that's what happens is I no longer am thinking about this person or that person. I'm thinking about the job that needs to be done and how to do it. And that's it.
And I don't know where that comes from, but that's what happens is I no longer am thinking about this person or that person. I'm thinking about the job that needs to be done and how to do it. And that's it.
And I don't know where that comes from, but that's what happens is I no longer am thinking about this person or that person. I'm thinking about the job that needs to be done and how to do it. And that's it.
Yeah, I mean, it comes in a lot. The divorce rate among cultures where there's a lot of arranged marriage is actually quite low. And I think that that can be attributed to the fact that people enter into marriage with a different expectation.
Yeah, I mean, it comes in a lot. The divorce rate among cultures where there's a lot of arranged marriage is actually quite low. And I think that that can be attributed to the fact that people enter into marriage with a different expectation.
Yeah, I mean, it comes in a lot. The divorce rate among cultures where there's a lot of arranged marriage is actually quite low. And I think that that can be attributed to the fact that people enter into marriage with a different expectation.
Like in a lot of cultures where, you know, particularly Muslim cultures I've had some experience with, where individuals marry and there's an arranged marriage that's arranged by the parents. It's really done with this sense that marriage is about a family, a partnership, building something together. It's not this overly romanticized. The idea is that we will grow to love each other.
Like in a lot of cultures where, you know, particularly Muslim cultures I've had some experience with, where individuals marry and there's an arranged marriage that's arranged by the parents. It's really done with this sense that marriage is about a family, a partnership, building something together. It's not this overly romanticized. The idea is that we will grow to love each other.
Like in a lot of cultures where, you know, particularly Muslim cultures I've had some experience with, where individuals marry and there's an arranged marriage that's arranged by the parents. It's really done with this sense that marriage is about a family, a partnership, building something together. It's not this overly romanticized. The idea is that we will grow to love each other.
And love, you know, love is a feeling, but love is a verb, too. Like, to love someone is to act with love towards that person. Like, there are plenty of examples of people who were in arranged marriages or marriages that they weren't quite sure, and then they grew to, through shared experience and common, like, loving children together, they grew to say, you know, this is how it is.
And love, you know, love is a feeling, but love is a verb, too. Like, to love someone is to act with love towards that person. Like, there are plenty of examples of people who were in arranged marriages or marriages that they weren't quite sure, and then they grew to, through shared experience and common, like, loving children together, they grew to say, you know, this is how it is.
And love, you know, love is a feeling, but love is a verb, too. Like, to love someone is to act with love towards that person. Like, there are plenty of examples of people who were in arranged marriages or marriages that they weren't quite sure, and then they grew to, through shared experience and common, like, loving children together, they grew to say, you know, this is how it is.
So I think that religion and people's religious backgrounds plays a huge role in how they approach the world. And how we approach the world obviously informs how we do our marriage. I mean, I will say, as someone who was raised very strict Catholic,
So I think that religion and people's religious backgrounds plays a huge role in how they approach the world. And how we approach the world obviously informs how we do our marriage. I mean, I will say, as someone who was raised very strict Catholic,
So I think that religion and people's religious backgrounds plays a huge role in how they approach the world. And how we approach the world obviously informs how we do our marriage. I mean, I will say, as someone who was raised very strict Catholic,
you know, my Catholicism and my like sort of understanding of the rigidity of the mass and when you stand and when you sit and how you address it, it's very much was good practice for the courtroom. Like, because courtroom's very much the same. Like there's people you treat a different way. There's someone who's in charge.
you know, my Catholicism and my like sort of understanding of the rigidity of the mass and when you stand and when you sit and how you address it, it's very much was good practice for the courtroom. Like, because courtroom's very much the same. Like there's people you treat a different way. There's someone who's in charge.
you know, my Catholicism and my like sort of understanding of the rigidity of the mass and when you stand and when you sit and how you address it, it's very much was good practice for the courtroom. Like, because courtroom's very much the same. Like there's people you treat a different way. There's someone who's in charge.
And I said to him, by the way, this is because I had mentioned that there was this case coming in where I had video of this guy beating the dog. And you ever want to see like people's vindictive side come out, tell them somebody beat up a puppy. Like I have to tell you people like a little old lady would be like, kill the motherfucker.
And I said to him, by the way, this is because I had mentioned that there was this case coming in where I had video of this guy beating the dog. And you ever want to see like people's vindictive side come out, tell them somebody beat up a puppy. Like I have to tell you people like a little old lady would be like, kill the motherfucker.
And I said to him, by the way, this is because I had mentioned that there was this case coming in where I had video of this guy beating the dog. And you ever want to see like people's vindictive side come out, tell them somebody beat up a puppy. Like I have to tell you people like a little old lady would be like, kill the motherfucker.
There's, you know, there's like a hierarchy and you humble yourself before that hierarchy and you're not like bowing and genuflecting is not something that's a source of shame. It's a source of pride. It's like, I'm strong enough to humble myself in front of someone. And so I think that religion at its best infuses every aspect of a person's life.
There's, you know, there's like a hierarchy and you humble yourself before that hierarchy and you're not like bowing and genuflecting is not something that's a source of shame. It's a source of pride. It's like, I'm strong enough to humble myself in front of someone. And so I think that religion at its best infuses every aspect of a person's life.
There's, you know, there's like a hierarchy and you humble yourself before that hierarchy and you're not like bowing and genuflecting is not something that's a source of shame. It's a source of pride. It's like, I'm strong enough to humble myself in front of someone. And so I think that religion at its best infuses every aspect of a person's life.
And so I've seen some couples that are very religious. What is hard to watch... and I've done a lot of divorces where people have the same religious faith and then one of them loses that faith. And it creates a schism in the relationship that is very hard to fix because religion has certain first principles from which people are working, you know?
And so I've seen some couples that are very religious. What is hard to watch... and I've done a lot of divorces where people have the same religious faith and then one of them loses that faith. And it creates a schism in the relationship that is very hard to fix because religion has certain first principles from which people are working, you know?
And so I've seen some couples that are very religious. What is hard to watch... and I've done a lot of divorces where people have the same religious faith and then one of them loses that faith. And it creates a schism in the relationship that is very hard to fix because religion has certain first principles from which people are working, you know?
And so if you lose those foundational first principles, they tether so many other things in the marriage, like that it gets really, really tricky, you know?
And so if you lose those foundational first principles, they tether so many other things in the marriage, like that it gets really, really tricky, you know?
And so if you lose those foundational first principles, they tether so many other things in the marriage, like that it gets really, really tricky, you know?
Yeah. Fuck. Yeah, but sometimes, again, to throw the counterpoint, I've done a lot of divorces, for example, in the Hasidic community, in the ultra-Orthodox Jewish community. And that is a community, I don't think I'm giving anything away when I say that if you could choose between being a man in that community or a woman in that community, you're better off being a man.
Yeah. Fuck. Yeah, but sometimes, again, to throw the counterpoint, I've done a lot of divorces, for example, in the Hasidic community, in the ultra-Orthodox Jewish community. And that is a community, I don't think I'm giving anything away when I say that if you could choose between being a man in that community or a woman in that community, you're better off being a man.
Yeah. Fuck. Yeah, but sometimes, again, to throw the counterpoint, I've done a lot of divorces, for example, in the Hasidic community, in the ultra-Orthodox Jewish community. And that is a community, I don't think I'm giving anything away when I say that if you could choose between being a man in that community or a woman in that community, you're better off being a man.
Like women aren't allowed to drive. There's a lot of rules imposed on women that are challenging. It's a fairly admittedly patriarchal society, culture, you know, enclave. And so sometimes those women will say like, yeah, I can't do this anymore. Like, I don't want to be in this game anymore. I want to step out of this. And that's very challenging.
Like women aren't allowed to drive. There's a lot of rules imposed on women that are challenging. It's a fairly admittedly patriarchal society, culture, you know, enclave. And so sometimes those women will say like, yeah, I can't do this anymore. Like, I don't want to be in this game anymore. I want to step out of this. And that's very challenging.
Like women aren't allowed to drive. There's a lot of rules imposed on women that are challenging. It's a fairly admittedly patriarchal society, culture, you know, enclave. And so sometimes those women will say like, yeah, I can't do this anymore. Like, I don't want to be in this game anymore. I want to step out of this. And that's very challenging.
It's very, very challenging because it is very, very difficult to reconcile an ultra-orthodox religious life and someone who goes fully in the other. Because people like... Moderation doesn't play into it. People treat dandruff with decapitation. People go from, I'm ultra-religious to, fuck that, I'm as far from religious as you can be. You ever want to meet somebody who's a virulent atheist?
It's very, very challenging because it is very, very difficult to reconcile an ultra-orthodox religious life and someone who goes fully in the other. Because people like... Moderation doesn't play into it. People treat dandruff with decapitation. People go from, I'm ultra-religious to, fuck that, I'm as far from religious as you can be. You ever want to meet somebody who's a virulent atheist?
It's very, very challenging because it is very, very difficult to reconcile an ultra-orthodox religious life and someone who goes fully in the other. Because people like... Moderation doesn't play into it. People treat dandruff with decapitation. People go from, I'm ultra-religious to, fuck that, I'm as far from religious as you can be. You ever want to meet somebody who's a virulent atheist?
Find someone who was raised super-religious. It's like people go in that opposite direction. And it's challenging, but it also sometimes is... We all change as time moves on. And that's the challenge, I think, is being honest with yourself about what's changed and then being able to be honest with your partner.
Find someone who was raised super-religious. It's like people go in that opposite direction. And it's challenging, but it also sometimes is... We all change as time moves on. And that's the challenge, I think, is being honest with yourself about what's changed and then being able to be honest with your partner.
Find someone who was raised super-religious. It's like people go in that opposite direction. And it's challenging, but it also sometimes is... We all change as time moves on. And that's the challenge, I think, is being honest with yourself about what's changed and then being able to be honest with your partner.
So I said to the court officer, I said, listen, I said, this case is in today. They said, oh, that guy's today. I said, yeah. I said, and by the way, I said, if he and I ended up in the restroom at the same time together, he started whatever fight happened. And they were like, Absolutely. In fact, we heard him shouting at me. I was like, thanks, man.
So I said to the court officer, I said, listen, I said, this case is in today. They said, oh, that guy's today. I said, yeah. I said, and by the way, I said, if he and I ended up in the restroom at the same time together, he started whatever fight happened. And they were like, Absolutely. In fact, we heard him shouting at me. I was like, thanks, man.
So I said to the court officer, I said, listen, I said, this case is in today. They said, oh, that guy's today. I said, yeah. I said, and by the way, I said, if he and I ended up in the restroom at the same time together, he started whatever fight happened. And they were like, Absolutely. In fact, we heard him shouting at me. I was like, thanks, man.
I will tell you, doing what I do for a living, one of the things I've learned is the most dangerous lies are the ones we tell ourselves. And most of the time when we lie to our partner, we're lying to ourself and then we're lying to our partner. And so I just, that's why I'm always a fan of the honest conversation. Like just be honest, be frank, be candid, just say the quiet part out loud.
I will tell you, doing what I do for a living, one of the things I've learned is the most dangerous lies are the ones we tell ourselves. And most of the time when we lie to our partner, we're lying to ourself and then we're lying to our partner. And so I just, that's why I'm always a fan of the honest conversation. Like just be honest, be frank, be candid, just say the quiet part out loud.
I will tell you, doing what I do for a living, one of the things I've learned is the most dangerous lies are the ones we tell ourselves. And most of the time when we lie to our partner, we're lying to ourself and then we're lying to our partner. And so I just, that's why I'm always a fan of the honest conversation. Like just be honest, be frank, be candid, just say the quiet part out loud.
Like, and I think that's why to some degree, like, and I'm not saying this to be, you know, I'm not trying to, you know, have your wives not be mad at me, although it would be good to have them not be mad at me or you. I think one of the things I've found about comics, I've represented a couple of comics,
Like, and I think that's why to some degree, like, and I'm not saying this to be, you know, I'm not trying to, you know, have your wives not be mad at me, although it would be good to have them not be mad at me or you. I think one of the things I've found about comics, I've represented a couple of comics,
Like, and I think that's why to some degree, like, and I'm not saying this to be, you know, I'm not trying to, you know, have your wives not be mad at me, although it would be good to have them not be mad at me or you. I think one of the things I've found about comics, I've represented a couple of comics,
There is something really naked and honest about getting up in front of people and talking about your most vulnerable, embarrassing, dumb shit. It's also the funniest shit. It's the shit people can relate to. But you use that muscle all the time. So I imagine in relationship you do the same thing. And that's probably why. I know a lot of comics that are incredibly happily married.
There is something really naked and honest about getting up in front of people and talking about your most vulnerable, embarrassing, dumb shit. It's also the funniest shit. It's the shit people can relate to. But you use that muscle all the time. So I imagine in relationship you do the same thing. And that's probably why. I know a lot of comics that are incredibly happily married.
There is something really naked and honest about getting up in front of people and talking about your most vulnerable, embarrassing, dumb shit. It's also the funniest shit. It's the shit people can relate to. But you use that muscle all the time. So I imagine in relationship you do the same thing. And that's probably why. I know a lot of comics that are incredibly happily married.
I know some that never marry because of the lifestyle on the road and things like that, substance use issues, stuff like that. But I know a lot of comics that are very, very happily married because that same self-effacing insight and open, unashamed, like, calling out their own bullshit serves people pretty well in a relationship.
I know some that never marry because of the lifestyle on the road and things like that, substance use issues, stuff like that. But I know a lot of comics that are very, very happily married because that same self-effacing insight and open, unashamed, like, calling out their own bullshit serves people pretty well in a relationship.
I know some that never marry because of the lifestyle on the road and things like that, substance use issues, stuff like that. But I know a lot of comics that are very, very happily married because that same self-effacing insight and open, unashamed, like, calling out their own bullshit serves people pretty well in a relationship.
I think you can learn a lot about keeping things together by watching how they fall apart. And that's why I wrote the book. What's the name of the book so we can plug it? It's called How to Stay in Love, Practical Wisdom from an Unlikely Source. And you can get it on like Audible if you want to listen to me talk for eight and a half hours. Or you can just get it anywhere. It's for sale anywhere.
I think you can learn a lot about keeping things together by watching how they fall apart. And that's why I wrote the book. What's the name of the book so we can plug it? It's called How to Stay in Love, Practical Wisdom from an Unlikely Source. And you can get it on like Audible if you want to listen to me talk for eight and a half hours. Or you can just get it anywhere. It's for sale anywhere.
I think you can learn a lot about keeping things together by watching how they fall apart. And that's why I wrote the book. What's the name of the book so we can plug it? It's called How to Stay in Love, Practical Wisdom from an Unlikely Source. And you can get it on like Audible if you want to listen to me talk for eight and a half hours. Or you can just get it anywhere. It's for sale anywhere.
And, you know, I've learned a lot by being a divorce lawyer about what keeps people together. What I've learned, I would say more than anything else, is just pay attention. Just pay attention. Like... People get divorced the same way they go bankrupt. Very slowly and then all at once. Like you don't get divorced because your husband's cheating on you, your wife's cheating on you.
And, you know, I've learned a lot by being a divorce lawyer about what keeps people together. What I've learned, I would say more than anything else, is just pay attention. Just pay attention. Like... People get divorced the same way they go bankrupt. Very slowly and then all at once. Like you don't get divorced because your husband's cheating on you, your wife's cheating on you.
And, you know, I've learned a lot by being a divorce lawyer about what keeps people together. What I've learned, I would say more than anything else, is just pay attention. Just pay attention. Like... People get divorced the same way they go bankrupt. Very slowly and then all at once. Like you don't get divorced because your husband's cheating on you, your wife's cheating on you.
Your husband's cheating on you, your wife's cheating on you because there was slippage. There were all these little things. Like, you know those little things you did when you first were dating your wife to like let her know how beautiful she was and how like you like her better than other options. Yeah.
Your husband's cheating on you, your wife's cheating on you because there was slippage. There were all these little things. Like, you know those little things you did when you first were dating your wife to like let her know how beautiful she was and how like you like her better than other options. Yeah.
Your husband's cheating on you, your wife's cheating on you because there was slippage. There were all these little things. Like, you know those little things you did when you first were dating your wife to like let her know how beautiful she was and how like you like her better than other options. Yeah.
And all those little things she did for you that made you feel like the fucking coolest guy and the best guy. You loved who you were when you're with her. Yeah, for sure. You stood taller. You went like, yeah, I might be the person this person thinks I am.
And all those little things she did for you that made you feel like the fucking coolest guy and the best guy. You loved who you were when you're with her. Yeah, for sure. You stood taller. You went like, yeah, I might be the person this person thinks I am.
And all those little things she did for you that made you feel like the fucking coolest guy and the best guy. You loved who you were when you're with her. Yeah, for sure. You stood taller. You went like, yeah, I might be the person this person thinks I am.
When we start losing that, like there are these little things, like the advice I give, one of the pieces of advice I give in my book, the one that I get the most feedback on, as I said, leave a note. Just leave your wife a note. whatever, every day when you leave the house, just takes 30 seconds. Just like, babe, it was so fun watching that movie with you last night.
When we start losing that, like there are these little things, like the advice I give, one of the pieces of advice I give in my book, the one that I get the most feedback on, as I said, leave a note. Just leave your wife a note. whatever, every day when you leave the house, just takes 30 seconds. Just like, babe, it was so fun watching that movie with you last night.
When we start losing that, like there are these little things, like the advice I give, one of the pieces of advice I give in my book, the one that I get the most feedback on, as I said, leave a note. Just leave your wife a note. whatever, every day when you leave the house, just takes 30 seconds. Just like, babe, it was so fun watching that movie with you last night.
I married the prettiest girl in the world. Can't wait to see you later. What does it take, 30 seconds? What is that doing though? It's saying, I still see you. I still think you're beautiful. You're still worth my time. You're still worth my attention. There's all these other things going on in the world. There's the kids.
I married the prettiest girl in the world. Can't wait to see you later. What does it take, 30 seconds? What is that doing though? It's saying, I still see you. I still think you're beautiful. You're still worth my time. You're still worth my attention. There's all these other things going on in the world. There's the kids.
I married the prettiest girl in the world. Can't wait to see you later. What does it take, 30 seconds? What is that doing though? It's saying, I still see you. I still think you're beautiful. You're still worth my time. You're still worth my attention. There's all these other things going on in the world. There's the kids.
There's a million things, the thousand natural shocks that flesh is heir to, right? But you're still, it's still you and me. It's still you and me. And those little things, just pay attention. Pay attention and don't let slippage happen. Because it is, look, it is so much easier to stay a healthy weight than it is to get super fucking fat and try to lose 100 pounds. So it's the same thing.
There's a million things, the thousand natural shocks that flesh is heir to, right? But you're still, it's still you and me. It's still you and me. And those little things, just pay attention. Pay attention and don't let slippage happen. Because it is, look, it is so much easier to stay a healthy weight than it is to get super fucking fat and try to lose 100 pounds. So it's the same thing.
There's a million things, the thousand natural shocks that flesh is heir to, right? But you're still, it's still you and me. It's still you and me. And those little things, just pay attention. Pay attention and don't let slippage happen. Because it is, look, it is so much easier to stay a healthy weight than it is to get super fucking fat and try to lose 100 pounds. So it's the same thing.
But sure enough, that was a case where that single piece of evidence was able to just neutralize his ability to go in and be a charming person. You saw the real side of him that you talked about. Exactly. And the more he went in trying to be charming as opposed to saying like... The more psycho he looks.
But sure enough, that was a case where that single piece of evidence was able to just neutralize his ability to go in and be a charming person. You saw the real side of him that you talked about. Exactly. And the more he went in trying to be charming as opposed to saying like... The more psycho he looks.
But sure enough, that was a case where that single piece of evidence was able to just neutralize his ability to go in and be a charming person. You saw the real side of him that you talked about. Exactly. And the more he went in trying to be charming as opposed to saying like... The more psycho he looks.
Once the wheels come off this thing, it is really hard to get back there. So just if you care about this person and you care about the value of that marriage, just take that little bit of time to just, again, it can be just a kind word. It can just be building this person up when people are around instead of taking the piss out of them around people.
Once the wheels come off this thing, it is really hard to get back there. So just if you care about this person and you care about the value of that marriage, just take that little bit of time to just, again, it can be just a kind word. It can just be building this person up when people are around instead of taking the piss out of them around people.
Once the wheels come off this thing, it is really hard to get back there. So just if you care about this person and you care about the value of that marriage, just take that little bit of time to just, again, it can be just a kind word. It can just be building this person up when people are around instead of taking the piss out of them around people.
Like it can be anything. It can be any little gestures, but those are the things that make us fall in love. Those are the things that make us stay in love. And when you let those little things slip, that's when the wheels start coming off. And that's, there's a short road from that to my office.
Like it can be anything. It can be any little gestures, but those are the things that make us fall in love. Those are the things that make us stay in love. And when you let those little things slip, that's when the wheels start coming off. And that's, there's a short road from that to my office.
Like it can be anything. It can be any little gestures, but those are the things that make us fall in love. Those are the things that make us stay in love. And when you let those little things slip, that's when the wheels start coming off. And that's, there's a short road from that to my office.
So I always just tell people, pay attention and just make a point of cheering for the person that you're with. That's it. Amen to that.
So I always just tell people, pay attention and just make a point of cheering for the person that you're with. That's it. Amen to that.
So I always just tell people, pay attention and just make a point of cheering for the person that you're with. That's it. Amen to that.
Well, and that's exactly what you say to the judge, because I said to the judge, I'm like, no, judge, you know, for every cockroach you see, there's 50 in the walls. Like we caught this on video.
Well, and that's exactly what you say to the judge, because I said to the judge, I'm like, no, judge, you know, for every cockroach you see, there's 50 in the walls. Like we caught this on video.
Well, and that's exactly what you say to the judge, because I said to the judge, I'm like, no, judge, you know, for every cockroach you see, there's 50 in the walls. Like we caught this on video.
There's lots of cultural, religious, there's all kinds of, but at the end, we are where we are in that equation. And I think marriage is something most men are like, okay, if that's the price, like if I got to buy that ticket to take the ride, I like the ride. I don't want to lose the ride. I don't want to lose this person. Oh man, I'm just, I'm not, I'm not necessarily, I'm sorry.
There's lots of cultural, religious, there's all kinds of, but at the end, we are where we are in that equation. And I think marriage is something most men are like, okay, if that's the price, like if I got to buy that ticket to take the ride, I like the ride. I don't want to lose the ride. I don't want to lose this person. Oh man, I'm just, I'm not, I'm not necessarily, I'm sorry.
There's lots of cultural, religious, there's all kinds of, but at the end, we are where we are in that equation. And I think marriage is something most men are like, okay, if that's the price, like if I got to buy that ticket to take the ride, I like the ride. I don't want to lose the ride. I don't want to lose this person. Oh man, I'm just, I'm not, I'm not necessarily, I'm sorry.
People lie to their therapist. They don't lie to their divorce lawyer. Like, I have had 25 years of conversations with men who are ending a marriage or starting a marriage and getting a prenup or thinking about getting a prenup, but they're too afraid to say anything to her about it. I've had those same things with women. I've represented roughly half, half men, half women.
People lie to their therapist. They don't lie to their divorce lawyer. Like, I have had 25 years of conversations with men who are ending a marriage or starting a marriage and getting a prenup or thinking about getting a prenup, but they're too afraid to say anything to her about it. I've had those same things with women. I've represented roughly half, half men, half women.
People lie to their therapist. They don't lie to their divorce lawyer. Like, I have had 25 years of conversations with men who are ending a marriage or starting a marriage and getting a prenup or thinking about getting a prenup, but they're too afraid to say anything to her about it. I've had those same things with women. I've represented roughly half, half men, half women.
And I'm telling you, like, you don't have to like the truth. The truth is the truth. Like, you don't have to like, like, I get it, man. Like, don't shoot the messenger. Like, that's how it is, you know?
And I'm telling you, like, you don't have to like the truth. The truth is the truth. Like, you don't have to like, like, I get it, man. Like, don't shoot the messenger. Like, that's how it is, you know?
And I'm telling you, like, you don't have to like the truth. The truth is the truth. Like, you don't have to like, like, I get it, man. Like, don't shoot the messenger. Like, that's how it is, you know?
And every time I speak about these things, because they're so tied in with gender stuff and they're so, I know I'm putting a huge target and everyone's like, oh, this guy, I don't care because here's the thing, sit in my office for a week.
And every time I speak about these things, because they're so tied in with gender stuff and they're so, I know I'm putting a huge target and everyone's like, oh, this guy, I don't care because here's the thing, sit in my office for a week.
And every time I speak about these things, because they're so tied in with gender stuff and they're so, I know I'm putting a huge target and everyone's like, oh, this guy, I don't care because here's the thing, sit in my office for a week.
How is that passive?
How is that passive?
How is that passive?
That's the economy of love. What, you like going to antique shows? I don't. But you know what? If she wants to go to, if that's something she enjoys, you think she enjoys Brazilian jujitsu tournaments? Have you smelled one? Like, trust me, that's not, but you know what? I love it, and she's excited to see me be so excited.
That's the economy of love. What, you like going to antique shows? I don't. But you know what? If she wants to go to, if that's something she enjoys, you think she enjoys Brazilian jujitsu tournaments? Have you smelled one? Like, trust me, that's not, but you know what? I love it, and she's excited to see me be so excited.
That's the economy of love. What, you like going to antique shows? I don't. But you know what? If she wants to go to, if that's something she enjoys, you think she enjoys Brazilian jujitsu tournaments? Have you smelled one? Like, trust me, that's not, but you know what? I love it, and she's excited to see me be so excited.
Oh, trust me, you can smell it from here. It's unbelievable. The funk is like you'd never believe in your whole life. The only other thing is like equestrian is maybe the only other habit that could smell as bad as that. But the truth is, part of love is, you know, you want that slice of pizza more than I do. Like, part of it is like, okay, like, this is important to you.
Oh, trust me, you can smell it from here. It's unbelievable. The funk is like you'd never believe in your whole life. The only other thing is like equestrian is maybe the only other habit that could smell as bad as that. But the truth is, part of love is, you know, you want that slice of pizza more than I do. Like, part of it is like, okay, like, this is important to you.
Oh, trust me, you can smell it from here. It's unbelievable. The funk is like you'd never believe in your whole life. The only other thing is like equestrian is maybe the only other habit that could smell as bad as that. But the truth is, part of love is, you know, you want that slice of pizza more than I do. Like, part of it is like, okay, like, this is important to you.
Yeah, the pleasure and sacrifice. Right, because listen, if it's important to me and it's important to you, am I doing it for you or am I doing it for me or both of us? Like, what's beautiful is when you're not sacrificing to give, you know, when there's this feeling of like, if this is important to you, it just became important to me. Right.
Yeah, the pleasure and sacrifice. Right, because listen, if it's important to me and it's important to you, am I doing it for you or am I doing it for me or both of us? Like, what's beautiful is when you're not sacrificing to give, you know, when there's this feeling of like, if this is important to you, it just became important to me. Right.
Yeah, the pleasure and sacrifice. Right, because listen, if it's important to me and it's important to you, am I doing it for you or am I doing it for me or both of us? Like, what's beautiful is when you're not sacrificing to give, you know, when there's this feeling of like, if this is important to you, it just became important to me. Right.
Like, and that, but that's at the core of any healthy relationship. You know, if you say to me as my friend, like, Jim, this upsets me. Okay. Or I'm scared of this. If I go, well, I'm not scared of that. You know, like, thanks. That didn't do anything for me. Yeah, it sort of ceases to be a friendship at that point. Right. When you say to someone like, hey, I get that, man. You know what?
Like, and that, but that's at the core of any healthy relationship. You know, if you say to me as my friend, like, Jim, this upsets me. Okay. Or I'm scared of this. If I go, well, I'm not scared of that. You know, like, thanks. That didn't do anything for me. Yeah, it sort of ceases to be a friendship at that point. Right. When you say to someone like, hey, I get that, man. You know what?
Like, and that, but that's at the core of any healthy relationship. You know, if you say to me as my friend, like, Jim, this upsets me. Okay. Or I'm scared of this. If I go, well, I'm not scared of that. You know, like, thanks. That didn't do anything for me. Yeah, it sort of ceases to be a friendship at that point. Right. When you say to someone like, hey, I get that, man. You know what?
Like it's phenomenal. All of that sounds great. It's like, you know, like, oh, I like this ice cream. What's not to like? It's ice cream. Of course you like ice cream.
Like it's phenomenal. All of that sounds great. It's like, you know, like, oh, I like this ice cream. What's not to like? It's ice cream. Of course you like ice cream.
Like it's phenomenal. All of that sounds great. It's like, you know, like, oh, I like this ice cream. What's not to like? It's ice cream. Of course you like ice cream.
Honestly, like, I understand that. Like, I don't, I'm not afraid of that. And here's how I think about it, which is why I'm not afraid of it. Like, and I hope that maybe helps, you know? Like, and that's what, or just hearing the person and going like, yeah, I get that, man. Hey, that's fair. Like, people are... afraid? I got some stuff I'm afraid of that you're probably not afraid of.
Honestly, like, I understand that. Like, I don't, I'm not afraid of that. And here's how I think about it, which is why I'm not afraid of it. Like, and I hope that maybe helps, you know? Like, and that's what, or just hearing the person and going like, yeah, I get that, man. Hey, that's fair. Like, people are... afraid? I got some stuff I'm afraid of that you're probably not afraid of.
Honestly, like, I understand that. Like, I don't, I'm not afraid of that. And here's how I think about it, which is why I'm not afraid of it. Like, and I hope that maybe helps, you know? Like, and that's what, or just hearing the person and going like, yeah, I get that, man. Hey, that's fair. Like, people are... afraid? I got some stuff I'm afraid of that you're probably not afraid of.
Like, that's okay. So why is it? I don't think there's something passive about a man saying, yeah, marriage was not that important to me, but it was important to her. And what's important to her becomes important to me because she's important to me.
Like, that's okay. So why is it? I don't think there's something passive about a man saying, yeah, marriage was not that important to me, but it was important to her. And what's important to her becomes important to me because she's important to me.
Like, that's okay. So why is it? I don't think there's something passive about a man saying, yeah, marriage was not that important to me, but it was important to her. And what's important to her becomes important to me because she's important to me.
I feel like that's love. Like that's a big piece of love. And so I think marriage can be one of those things where just like whether you wanted it or the other person wanted it, like there's something wonderful about you're excited about this. Okay, let's do it.
I feel like that's love. Like that's a big piece of love. And so I think marriage can be one of those things where just like whether you wanted it or the other person wanted it, like there's something wonderful about you're excited about this. Okay, let's do it.
I feel like that's love. Like that's a big piece of love. And so I think marriage can be one of those things where just like whether you wanted it or the other person wanted it, like there's something wonderful about you're excited about this. Okay, let's do it.
Of course, get a prenup. Why would you not get a prenup? Listen, man, I love you. And I trust you're a good driver. We get in the car, I'm putting on a seatbelt. Putting on a seatbelt. Why wouldn't I? Because there are other drivers.
Of course, get a prenup. Why would you not get a prenup? Listen, man, I love you. And I trust you're a good driver. We get in the car, I'm putting on a seatbelt. Putting on a seatbelt. Why wouldn't I? Because there are other drivers.
Of course, get a prenup. Why would you not get a prenup? Listen, man, I love you. And I trust you're a good driver. We get in the car, I'm putting on a seatbelt. Putting on a seatbelt. Why wouldn't I? Because there are other drivers.
There's other drivers on the road. And by the way, like, again, this is a situation where there are rules in place, whether you accept it or not. Like, that's the thing about the truth, right? Like, my beliefs don't require you to believe them. Like, this is the—you don't have to believe the truth if it's the truth. It's the truth. Like, there is a rule set governing every single marriage.
There's other drivers on the road. And by the way, like, again, this is a situation where there are rules in place, whether you accept it or not. Like, that's the thing about the truth, right? Like, my beliefs don't require you to believe them. Like, this is the—you don't have to believe the truth if it's the truth. It's the truth. Like, there is a rule set governing every single marriage.
There's other drivers on the road. And by the way, like, again, this is a situation where there are rules in place, whether you accept it or not. Like, that's the thing about the truth, right? Like, my beliefs don't require you to believe them. Like, this is the—you don't have to believe the truth if it's the truth. It's the truth. Like, there is a rule set governing every single marriage.
It was written by the state legislature, period.
It was written by the state legislature, period.
It was written by the state legislature, period.
Yeah, and your place in the timeline and the history and the merging of families, the merging of clans, and sort of this, we're going to merge now and maybe new life comes of that. Yeah. And then that life merges with more life and we become part of this chain. Like this is gorgeous stuff. And this is the fundamental building blocks of human civilization.
Yeah, and your place in the timeline and the history and the merging of families, the merging of clans, and sort of this, we're going to merge now and maybe new life comes of that. Yeah. And then that life merges with more life and we become part of this chain. Like this is gorgeous stuff. And this is the fundamental building blocks of human civilization.
Yeah, and your place in the timeline and the history and the merging of families, the merging of clans, and sort of this, we're going to merge now and maybe new life comes of that. Yeah. And then that life merges with more life and we become part of this chain. Like this is gorgeous stuff. And this is the fundamental building blocks of human civilization.
So I've given this a lot of thought because— The nature of my constitution is to look at patterns and look for patterns. We're similar in that regard. And so I'm always looking at that. For 25 years, I've been looking at like same religion, different religion. Cohabitated before marriage, didn't cohabitate before marriage. Age gap, no age gap.
So I've given this a lot of thought because— The nature of my constitution is to look at patterns and look for patterns. We're similar in that regard. And so I'm always looking at that. For 25 years, I've been looking at like same religion, different religion. Cohabitated before marriage, didn't cohabitate before marriage. Age gap, no age gap.
So I've given this a lot of thought because— The nature of my constitution is to look at patterns and look for patterns. We're similar in that regard. And so I'm always looking at that. For 25 years, I've been looking at like same religion, different religion. Cohabitated before marriage, didn't cohabitate before marriage. Age gap, no age gap.
Female age gap, like she's older, he's younger versus the other way. Like I try to find patterns. And I try to – the patterns that can't be tracked by the government in a certificate of dissolution of marriage. The patterns that can only be tracked by someone who's observing this, right?
Female age gap, like she's older, he's younger versus the other way. Like I try to find patterns. And I try to – the patterns that can't be tracked by the government in a certificate of dissolution of marriage. The patterns that can only be tracked by someone who's observing this, right?
Female age gap, like she's older, he's younger versus the other way. Like I try to find patterns. And I try to – the patterns that can't be tracked by the government in a certificate of dissolution of marriage. The patterns that can only be tracked by someone who's observing this, right?
And I've really tried to look at that from every angle, including the angle that you just said, which is people that connect in the romantic setting or enter a monogamous relationship or make a romantic connection even if it doesn't stay monogamous throughout that whole journey.
And I've really tried to look at that from every angle, including the angle that you just said, which is people that connect in the romantic setting or enter a monogamous relationship or make a romantic connection even if it doesn't stay monogamous throughout that whole journey.
And I've really tried to look at that from every angle, including the angle that you just said, which is people that connect in the romantic setting or enter a monogamous relationship or make a romantic connection even if it doesn't stay monogamous throughout that whole journey.
So like they met in high school, dated in high school, or dated and then went off to college, dated other people, and then they reconnect to each other after they played in the other fields. And then they go, OK, now we're going to be together. I've looked at all of that. And what I will tell you is, in my experience, in my observation, what he said is certainly true.
So like they met in high school, dated in high school, or dated and then went off to college, dated other people, and then they reconnect to each other after they played in the other fields. And then they go, OK, now we're going to be together. I've looked at all of that. And what I will tell you is, in my experience, in my observation, what he said is certainly true.
So like they met in high school, dated in high school, or dated and then went off to college, dated other people, and then they reconnect to each other after they played in the other fields. And then they go, OK, now we're going to be together. I've looked at all of that. And what I will tell you is, in my experience, in my observation, what he said is certainly true.
But it also ignores the negative, which is also true. So, yes, there is a scenario where people meet at a relatively young age, teens, 20s, whatever it might be, They marry or they become monogamous with each other and then they eventually marry or stay in a romantic relationship together.
But it also ignores the negative, which is also true. So, yes, there is a scenario where people meet at a relatively young age, teens, 20s, whatever it might be, They marry or they become monogamous with each other and then they eventually marry or stay in a romantic relationship together.
But it also ignores the negative, which is also true. So, yes, there is a scenario where people meet at a relatively young age, teens, 20s, whatever it might be, They marry or they become monogamous with each other and then they eventually marry or stay in a romantic relationship together.
And they grow in that like tree that the roots become intertwined and they just know which – and they build a history together that is just irreplaceable, you know, because – Who like you were there when my mom was still alive, you know, like you were there when I, you know, got into law school, you know, like not just when I passed the bar or not just when I built up.
And they grow in that like tree that the roots become intertwined and they just know which – and they build a history together that is just irreplaceable, you know, because – Who like you were there when my mom was still alive, you know, like you were there when I, you know, got into law school, you know, like not just when I passed the bar or not just when I built up.
And they grow in that like tree that the roots become intertwined and they just know which – and they build a history together that is just irreplaceable, you know, because – Who like you were there when my mom was still alive, you know, like you were there when I, you know, got into law school, you know, like not just when I passed the bar or not just when I built up.
So it is perfectly understandable that we get absolutely intoxicated by the thought of it and that we get so hopped up. But here's what people don't think about. The term contract never gets into that discussion. I'm telling you right now, right now someone's getting married somewhere and they've never – the word contract has never come out of there. They don't view marriage as a contract.
So it is perfectly understandable that we get absolutely intoxicated by the thought of it and that we get so hopped up. But here's what people don't think about. The term contract never gets into that discussion. I'm telling you right now, right now someone's getting married somewhere and they've never – the word contract has never come out of there. They don't view marriage as a contract.
So it is perfectly understandable that we get absolutely intoxicated by the thought of it and that we get so hopped up. But here's what people don't think about. The term contract never gets into that discussion. I'm telling you right now, right now someone's getting married somewhere and they've never – the word contract has never come out of there. They don't view marriage as a contract.
Like you were here for this whole trajectory and there's this shared history. I mean, you have old friends. I have old friends. There's something about someone who was with you when there was just no history. Like, no, I have some friends that it's like, dude, there was no reason to be friends with me other than, like, I had nothing to offer you. I had no money. I had no status. I was a C student.
Like you were here for this whole trajectory and there's this shared history. I mean, you have old friends. I have old friends. There's something about someone who was with you when there was just no history. Like, no, I have some friends that it's like, dude, there was no reason to be friends with me other than, like, I had nothing to offer you. I had no money. I had no status. I was a C student.
Like you were here for this whole trajectory and there's this shared history. I mean, you have old friends. I have old friends. There's something about someone who was with you when there was just no history. Like, no, I have some friends that it's like, dude, there was no reason to be friends with me other than, like, I had nothing to offer you. I had no money. I had no status. I was a C student.
And something about you still was like, nah, that's my buddy, you know? And I love that. So there is a tremendous beauty in that when it works. There is also that... People who have known each other since the beginning, as they grow and age and mature and they reach the stage in life where they start to, as we can call it, a midlife crisis, which, by the way, is not reserved for men.
And something about you still was like, nah, that's my buddy, you know? And I love that. So there is a tremendous beauty in that when it works. There is also that... People who have known each other since the beginning, as they grow and age and mature and they reach the stage in life where they start to, as we can call it, a midlife crisis, which, by the way, is not reserved for men.
And something about you still was like, nah, that's my buddy, you know? And I love that. So there is a tremendous beauty in that when it works. There is also that... People who have known each other since the beginning, as they grow and age and mature and they reach the stage in life where they start to, as we can call it, a midlife crisis, which, by the way, is not reserved for men.
Like men and women both have a form of that. That they start to say, hey, like have I really felt everything there is to feel? Have I – I've only slept with this person for the last 15 years. Like there's so many other things out there. There's so many other experiences out there and I haven't had them. So there's a sense – and by the way, there's also a –
Like men and women both have a form of that. That they start to say, hey, like have I really felt everything there is to feel? Have I – I've only slept with this person for the last 15 years. Like there's so many other things out there. There's so many other experiences out there and I haven't had them. So there's a sense – and by the way, there's also a –
Like men and women both have a form of that. That they start to say, hey, like have I really felt everything there is to feel? Have I – I've only slept with this person for the last 15 years. Like there's so many other things out there. There's so many other experiences out there and I haven't had them. So there's a sense – and by the way, there's also a –
you know, mistaking correlation for causation in the sense of saying, you know, I'm dissatisfied with my life and you've been here for the whole thing. So it must be you that I'm unhappy with, as opposed to the choices I've made and where they've led me or the person who I've become rather than who you be.
you know, mistaking correlation for causation in the sense of saying, you know, I'm dissatisfied with my life and you've been here for the whole thing. So it must be you that I'm unhappy with, as opposed to the choices I've made and where they've led me or the person who I've become rather than who you be.
you know, mistaking correlation for causation in the sense of saying, you know, I'm dissatisfied with my life and you've been here for the whole thing. So it must be you that I'm unhappy with, as opposed to the choices I've made and where they've led me or the person who I've become rather than who you be.
It's much easier to point to the other person and say, oh, you're the reason why I'm so unhappy. I gave you my skinny years, you know, like it's over now, you know, like, and so it's, I think it ignores that.
It's much easier to point to the other person and say, oh, you're the reason why I'm so unhappy. I gave you my skinny years, you know, like it's over now, you know, like, and so it's, I think it ignores that.
It's much easier to point to the other person and say, oh, you're the reason why I'm so unhappy. I gave you my skinny years, you know, like it's over now, you know, like, and so it's, I think it ignores that.
I have not found, and believe me, I'd be the first to say it, if I could find a pattern where I would say, okay, live together or don't live together, or these are ways to prevent divorce, is like this is what you should be looking for in a partner, same religious structure, same whatever, you were both raised in households with alcoholics, or neither of you was raised, whatever. I don't see it.
I have not found, and believe me, I'd be the first to say it, if I could find a pattern where I would say, okay, live together or don't live together, or these are ways to prevent divorce, is like this is what you should be looking for in a partner, same religious structure, same whatever, you were both raised in households with alcoholics, or neither of you was raised, whatever. I don't see it.
I have not found, and believe me, I'd be the first to say it, if I could find a pattern where I would say, okay, live together or don't live together, or these are ways to prevent divorce, is like this is what you should be looking for in a partner, same religious structure, same whatever, you were both raised in households with alcoholics, or neither of you was raised, whatever. I don't see it.
I don't see it. I think... Everything that's virtue can be vice. I think that there's lots of ways that being together from an early age can add depth and beauty to your relationship. And there are ways that it can cause people to not value each other the same way or view each other the same way. I think familiarity can breed contempt. And I think that, you know, no man is a hero to his butler.
I don't see it. I think... Everything that's virtue can be vice. I think that there's lots of ways that being together from an early age can add depth and beauty to your relationship. And there are ways that it can cause people to not value each other the same way or view each other the same way. I think familiarity can breed contempt. And I think that, you know, no man is a hero to his butler.
I don't see it. I think... Everything that's virtue can be vice. I think that there's lots of ways that being together from an early age can add depth and beauty to your relationship. And there are ways that it can cause people to not value each other the same way or view each other the same way. I think familiarity can breed contempt. And I think that, you know, no man is a hero to his butler.
Like, I think that when people have been together through a lot of those things, sometimes there is a familiarity that comes. Whereas, again, I think the opposite is true also, which is having had someone who's in your corner for an extended period of time solidifies and deepens that relationship. There is no simple answer to that.
Like, I think that when people have been together through a lot of those things, sometimes there is a familiarity that comes. Whereas, again, I think the opposite is true also, which is having had someone who's in your corner for an extended period of time solidifies and deepens that relationship. There is no simple answer to that.
Like, I think that when people have been together through a lot of those things, sometimes there is a familiarity that comes. Whereas, again, I think the opposite is true also, which is having had someone who's in your corner for an extended period of time solidifies and deepens that relationship. There is no simple answer to that.
I think there are a lot of things people can do in the relationship that to heighten the bonds created by a long shared history and keep everyone's eye on that ball than to have them distracted by novelty. I also think realism becomes really important.
I think there are a lot of things people can do in the relationship that to heighten the bonds created by a long shared history and keep everyone's eye on that ball than to have them distracted by novelty. I also think realism becomes really important.
I think there are a lot of things people can do in the relationship that to heighten the bonds created by a long shared history and keep everyone's eye on that ball than to have them distracted by novelty. I also think realism becomes really important.
Like looking at it and saying like, you know, if you've been with the same partner for 15, 20 years, that the fact your eye might wander to a shiny object, like not being afraid to admit that And figure out ways to like, hey, I feel this. It's a human way to feel. That's okay. You know, like how do we deal with that? Like what do we do with that?
Like looking at it and saying like, you know, if you've been with the same partner for 15, 20 years, that the fact your eye might wander to a shiny object, like not being afraid to admit that And figure out ways to like, hey, I feel this. It's a human way to feel. That's okay. You know, like how do we deal with that? Like what do we do with that?
Like looking at it and saying like, you know, if you've been with the same partner for 15, 20 years, that the fact your eye might wander to a shiny object, like not being afraid to admit that And figure out ways to like, hey, I feel this. It's a human way to feel. That's okay. You know, like how do we deal with that? Like what do we do with that?
The two things that I as a divorce lawyer am constantly thinking about is marriage as an economy – and marriage as a contract. And those are two. The minute you say that, people assume you don't believe in or experience emotionally any of those other beautiful things you just said.
The two things that I as a divorce lawyer am constantly thinking about is marriage as an economy – and marriage as a contract. And those are two. The minute you say that, people assume you don't believe in or experience emotionally any of those other beautiful things you just said.
The two things that I as a divorce lawyer am constantly thinking about is marriage as an economy – and marriage as a contract. And those are two. The minute you say that, people assume you don't believe in or experience emotionally any of those other beautiful things you just said.
Is it an ethical non-monogamy, which is what a lot of like younger, I don't want to say younger, but like a modern generation is certainly there are people coming up with different permutations of relationships, right? Where there's ethical non-monogamy, where there's a sense of, OK, we're going to have certain open things in our relationship.
Is it an ethical non-monogamy, which is what a lot of like younger, I don't want to say younger, but like a modern generation is certainly there are people coming up with different permutations of relationships, right? Where there's ethical non-monogamy, where there's a sense of, OK, we're going to have certain open things in our relationship.
Is it an ethical non-monogamy, which is what a lot of like younger, I don't want to say younger, but like a modern generation is certainly there are people coming up with different permutations of relationships, right? Where there's ethical non-monogamy, where there's a sense of, OK, we're going to have certain open things in our relationship.
Like a lot of my gay male friends have been doing that for years where they had, you know, because, again, a society like a culture that has been ostracized and told that what you're doing is an aberration and you're not like which is what it was when I was growing up.
Like a lot of my gay male friends have been doing that for years where they had, you know, because, again, a society like a culture that has been ostracized and told that what you're doing is an aberration and you're not like which is what it was when I was growing up.
Like a lot of my gay male friends have been doing that for years where they had, you know, because, again, a society like a culture that has been ostracized and told that what you're doing is an aberration and you're not like which is what it was when I was growing up.
Like the gay community was like had to hide to some degree because you could be literally killed for expressing your sexual orientation. So what does that do? Well, there's a freedom that comes with that to some degree. If you're on the outskirts of society, you're like, all right, well, we just make up our own rules, I guess.
Like the gay community was like had to hide to some degree because you could be literally killed for expressing your sexual orientation. So what does that do? Well, there's a freedom that comes with that to some degree. If you're on the outskirts of society, you're like, all right, well, we just make up our own rules, I guess.
Like the gay community was like had to hide to some degree because you could be literally killed for expressing your sexual orientation. So what does that do? Well, there's a freedom that comes with that to some degree. If you're on the outskirts of society, you're like, all right, well, we just make up our own rules, I guess.
Yeah, they really are. They're like, listen, like we're already told we're awful, terrible people for being who we are. So we might as well come up with our own ways of doing stuff. So I knew lots of gay men from the 80s on who, you know, were like, yeah, like we have certain rules in the relationship. Like we can hook up, but the other person has to be transparent about it.
Yeah, they really are. They're like, listen, like we're already told we're awful, terrible people for being who we are. So we might as well come up with our own ways of doing stuff. So I knew lots of gay men from the 80s on who, you know, were like, yeah, like we have certain rules in the relationship. Like we can hook up, but the other person has to be transparent about it.
Yeah, they really are. They're like, listen, like we're already told we're awful, terrible people for being who we are. So we might as well come up with our own ways of doing stuff. So I knew lots of gay men from the 80s on who, you know, were like, yeah, like we have certain rules in the relationship. Like we can hook up, but the other person has to be transparent about it.
Or there's certain boundaries you can't cross in terms of, you know, how sexually you interact with this person. Or it's something that we'll only do together in the form of a threesome. Again, it's a permutation of relationship that is between those two people. It's up to them. That's the conversation the two of them can have.
Or there's certain boundaries you can't cross in terms of, you know, how sexually you interact with this person. Or it's something that we'll only do together in the form of a threesome. Again, it's a permutation of relationship that is between those two people. It's up to them. That's the conversation the two of them can have.
Or there's certain boundaries you can't cross in terms of, you know, how sexually you interact with this person. Or it's something that we'll only do together in the form of a threesome. Again, it's a permutation of relationship that is between those two people. It's up to them. That's the conversation the two of them can have.
So I think there are things any couple can do to feed what's good in the relationship and dampen the negative impact of the things that are challenging in a relationship. I don't think there's anything. But again, the solution to that problem is not just pretend we don't have a problem. Just shut your mouth because if you say it out loud, it's going to make it real.
So I think there are things any couple can do to feed what's good in the relationship and dampen the negative impact of the things that are challenging in a relationship. I don't think there's anything. But again, the solution to that problem is not just pretend we don't have a problem. Just shut your mouth because if you say it out loud, it's going to make it real.
So I think there are things any couple can do to feed what's good in the relationship and dampen the negative impact of the things that are challenging in a relationship. I don't think there's anything. But again, the solution to that problem is not just pretend we don't have a problem. Just shut your mouth because if you say it out loud, it's going to make it real.
Because I think these are precious illusions that people have. And they cling to them. And I understand why. Like, it's nice to pretend everything's fine, you know. But it's not honest. And... I think there's tremendous value in saying these things to your partner, sharing them, hearing them, which, by the way, that's a two-way transaction.
Because I think these are precious illusions that people have. And they cling to them. And I understand why. Like, it's nice to pretend everything's fine, you know. But it's not honest. And... I think there's tremendous value in saying these things to your partner, sharing them, hearing them, which, by the way, that's a two-way transaction.
Because I think these are precious illusions that people have. And they cling to them. And I understand why. Like, it's nice to pretend everything's fine, you know. But it's not honest. And... I think there's tremendous value in saying these things to your partner, sharing them, hearing them, which, by the way, that's a two-way transaction.
Like, if you're going to be in a relationship where you're able to say things that might be hard for your partner to hear but are important for them to hear, you have to be prepared to let them do the same thing. So, again, that's why it's brave. Because there's this sense of I would like an uncomfortable truth more than a comfortable lie.
Like, if you're going to be in a relationship where you're able to say things that might be hard for your partner to hear but are important for them to hear, you have to be prepared to let them do the same thing. So, again, that's why it's brave. Because there's this sense of I would like an uncomfortable truth more than a comfortable lie.
Like, if you're going to be in a relationship where you're able to say things that might be hard for your partner to hear but are important for them to hear, you have to be prepared to let them do the same thing. So, again, that's why it's brave. Because there's this sense of I would like an uncomfortable truth more than a comfortable lie.
And I think 90% of the appeal of my media work in this chapter of my life has been that people go, oh, a divorce lawyer. This is just going to be a guy talking about how marriage is the worst thing ever. And in reality, I think what I'm saying is, look, this is amazing. This is wonderful. Why wouldn't you fall in love? Why wouldn't you have pair bonds?
And I think 90% of the appeal of my media work in this chapter of my life has been that people go, oh, a divorce lawyer. This is just going to be a guy talking about how marriage is the worst thing ever. And in reality, I think what I'm saying is, look, this is amazing. This is wonderful. Why wouldn't you fall in love? Why wouldn't you have pair bonds?
And I think 90% of the appeal of my media work in this chapter of my life has been that people go, oh, a divorce lawyer. This is just going to be a guy talking about how marriage is the worst thing ever. And in reality, I think what I'm saying is, look, this is amazing. This is wonderful. Why wouldn't you fall in love? Why wouldn't you have pair bonds?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah. So what I'll say is a couple of things. Again, not a clear correlation. Like we all have anecdotal stories we can tell of people who were together for extended periods of time and then split up. And we all have a couple of stories of people who – like I have a dear friend who got a woman pregnant on the first date. Like first date.
Yeah. So what I'll say is a couple of things. Again, not a clear correlation. Like we all have anecdotal stories we can tell of people who were together for extended periods of time and then split up. And we all have a couple of stories of people who – like I have a dear friend who got a woman pregnant on the first date. Like first date.
Yeah. So what I'll say is a couple of things. Again, not a clear correlation. Like we all have anecdotal stories we can tell of people who were together for extended periods of time and then split up. And we all have a couple of stories of people who – like I have a dear friend who got a woman pregnant on the first date. Like first date.
Like they went to movie and dinner and then they had sex and she got pregnant. And she called him like a couple of weeks later and was like, I'm pregnant. And he was like, I'm marrying her. And I was like, I'm sorry, is it 1950? Like what? No, like you don't even know her. You went on a one date with her. And he's like, nope, I'm going to do the right thing.
Like they went to movie and dinner and then they had sex and she got pregnant. And she called him like a couple of weeks later and was like, I'm pregnant. And he was like, I'm marrying her. And I was like, I'm sorry, is it 1950? Like what? No, like you don't even know her. You went on a one date with her. And he's like, nope, I'm going to do the right thing.
Like they went to movie and dinner and then they had sex and she got pregnant. And she called him like a couple of weeks later and was like, I'm pregnant. And he was like, I'm marrying her. And I was like, I'm sorry, is it 1950? Like what? No, like you don't even know her. You went on a one date with her. And he's like, nope, I'm going to do the right thing.
I'm like, the right thing is to marry a stranger? Because you had sex with her and got her pregnant? Like, are you serious? You know? They've been married 28 years. 28 years, three kids, happily. Yeah. 28 years, three kids. That's wonderful to hear. I mean, it's a warming story. Yeah, it's a warming story. It's an anecdotal, you know, it's not proof of anything.
I'm like, the right thing is to marry a stranger? Because you had sex with her and got her pregnant? Like, are you serious? You know? They've been married 28 years. 28 years, three kids, happily. Yeah. 28 years, three kids. That's wonderful to hear. I mean, it's a warming story. Yeah, it's a warming story. It's an anecdotal, you know, it's not proof of anything.
I'm like, the right thing is to marry a stranger? Because you had sex with her and got her pregnant? Like, are you serious? You know? They've been married 28 years. 28 years, three kids, happily. Yeah. 28 years, three kids. That's wonderful to hear. I mean, it's a warming story. Yeah, it's a warming story. It's an anecdotal, you know, it's not proof of anything.
I'm not suggesting people go out and knock somebody up on the first date and then just take the chances. If you do, get a prenup. That's all I'm going to say. But... You know, I think that, again, it depends on what, like, if I said to you, I go to the gym for an hour every day, is that good for me? If your answer is anything other than, I don't know, what do you do there?
I'm not suggesting people go out and knock somebody up on the first date and then just take the chances. If you do, get a prenup. That's all I'm going to say. But... You know, I think that, again, it depends on what, like, if I said to you, I go to the gym for an hour every day, is that good for me? If your answer is anything other than, I don't know, what do you do there?
I'm not suggesting people go out and knock somebody up on the first date and then just take the chances. If you do, get a prenup. That's all I'm going to say. But... You know, I think that, again, it depends on what, like, if I said to you, I go to the gym for an hour every day, is that good for me? If your answer is anything other than, I don't know, what do you do there?
Because if what I do is I walk on the treadmill for three minutes and then I sit in the steam room for half an hour and then the rest of the time I'm on my phone, then I might as well have stayed home probably, right? Whereas if I say, oh, I never go to the gym, does that mean that's bad? No. Maybe I do bodyweight workouts at home all the time and I never set foot in a gym.
Because if what I do is I walk on the treadmill for three minutes and then I sit in the steam room for half an hour and then the rest of the time I'm on my phone, then I might as well have stayed home probably, right? Whereas if I say, oh, I never go to the gym, does that mean that's bad? No. Maybe I do bodyweight workouts at home all the time and I never set foot in a gym.
Because if what I do is I walk on the treadmill for three minutes and then I sit in the steam room for half an hour and then the rest of the time I'm on my phone, then I might as well have stayed home probably, right? Whereas if I say, oh, I never go to the gym, does that mean that's bad? No. Maybe I do bodyweight workouts at home all the time and I never set foot in a gym.
So I don't think it tells the story. So the truth is, is a couple that's together for an extended period of time and has the kind of relationship where they're learning about each other through that process. Like practice doesn't make perfect. Perfect practice makes perfect. Look, time is good. Time is good in the sense that you're going to see some good things and some bad things.
So I don't think it tells the story. So the truth is, is a couple that's together for an extended period of time and has the kind of relationship where they're learning about each other through that process. Like practice doesn't make perfect. Perfect practice makes perfect. Look, time is good. Time is good in the sense that you're going to see some good things and some bad things.
So I don't think it tells the story. So the truth is, is a couple that's together for an extended period of time and has the kind of relationship where they're learning about each other through that process. Like practice doesn't make perfect. Perfect practice makes perfect. Look, time is good. Time is good in the sense that you're going to see some good things and some bad things.
You're going to see this person at their best and at their worst. You're going to see them through some difficult times. They're going to see you in some difficult times. And hopefully... You'll you'll know what you're like if you got to drive a car for six months before you decided if you were going to buy it or not. Like, you know, you would know you make a much more informed choice.
You're going to see this person at their best and at their worst. You're going to see them through some difficult times. They're going to see you in some difficult times. And hopefully... You'll you'll know what you're like if you got to drive a car for six months before you decided if you were going to buy it or not. Like, you know, you would know you make a much more informed choice.
You're going to see this person at their best and at their worst. You're going to see them through some difficult times. They're going to see you in some difficult times. And hopefully... You'll you'll know what you're like if you got to drive a car for six months before you decided if you were going to buy it or not. Like, you know, you would know you make a much more informed choice.
Why do you think they don't let you drive a car for six months before you buy it? Like there's a reason for that because you'd see the whole thing. Like that's that's again, I think it's a great idea. Like but you try test drive any car. It's going to be fun. I mean, maybe you'll see like, oh, this is boxy. I don't really like it. Look, I've seen, again, successful and unsuccessful brief pairings.
Why do you think they don't let you drive a car for six months before you buy it? Like there's a reason for that because you'd see the whole thing. Like that's that's again, I think it's a great idea. Like but you try test drive any car. It's going to be fun. I mean, maybe you'll see like, oh, this is boxy. I don't really like it. Look, I've seen, again, successful and unsuccessful brief pairings.
Why do you think they don't let you drive a car for six months before you buy it? Like there's a reason for that because you'd see the whole thing. Like that's that's again, I think it's a great idea. Like but you try test drive any car. It's going to be fun. I mean, maybe you'll see like, oh, this is boxy. I don't really like it. Look, I've seen, again, successful and unsuccessful brief pairings.
What I will say is when people have had a long – I'll call it courtship period or premarital period – That they used to deepen their connection to each other and get to know the good and bad of each other and see each other in good circumstances and bad circumstances and with and without makeup. And when you're mad and got cut off in traffic and when you're happy and blissed out.
What I will say is when people have had a long – I'll call it courtship period or premarital period – That they used to deepen their connection to each other and get to know the good and bad of each other and see each other in good circumstances and bad circumstances and with and without makeup. And when you're mad and got cut off in traffic and when you're happy and blissed out.
What I will say is when people have had a long – I'll call it courtship period or premarital period – That they used to deepen their connection to each other and get to know the good and bad of each other and see each other in good circumstances and bad circumstances and with and without makeup. And when you're mad and got cut off in traffic and when you're happy and blissed out.
Why wouldn't you consider locking in with another person and say, but my God, be honest with yourself about the risks involved. Be honest with yourself about the ways you can hedge that risk. And be honest with yourself about the contract and the economy. Because those are two things that I do not think That there is anything unromantic.
Why wouldn't you consider locking in with another person and say, but my God, be honest with yourself about the risks involved. Be honest with yourself about the ways you can hedge that risk. And be honest with yourself about the contract and the economy. Because those are two things that I do not think That there is anything unromantic.
Why wouldn't you consider locking in with another person and say, but my God, be honest with yourself about the risks involved. Be honest with yourself about the ways you can hedge that risk. And be honest with yourself about the contract and the economy. Because those are two things that I do not think That there is anything unromantic.
Yeah, they're making an informed choice. Like, they're buying something that they understand what it's like, you know? Like, friends of mine say to me all the time, like, I'm thinking about getting a dog. Like, sorry to make this analogy for romance and dogs, but, like, somebody says they want to get a dog. Well, it's a beautiful day out and I want to go running with the dog in the park.
Yeah, they're making an informed choice. Like, they're buying something that they understand what it's like, you know? Like, friends of mine say to me all the time, like, I'm thinking about getting a dog. Like, sorry to make this analogy for romance and dogs, but, like, somebody says they want to get a dog. Well, it's a beautiful day out and I want to go running with the dog in the park.
Yeah, they're making an informed choice. Like, they're buying something that they understand what it's like, you know? Like, friends of mine say to me all the time, like, I'm thinking about getting a dog. Like, sorry to make this analogy for romance and dogs, but, like, somebody says they want to get a dog. Well, it's a beautiful day out and I want to go running with the dog in the park.
Who wouldn't? But if you're not ready to have the dog when it ate something and now has diarrhea and it's raining outside and you've got to keep taking it outside and you've got to keep washing your cup, then don't get a dog, man. Because you know what? It's not playing in the park all day long. It's I've got to get home. Why?
Who wouldn't? But if you're not ready to have the dog when it ate something and now has diarrhea and it's raining outside and you've got to keep taking it outside and you've got to keep washing your cup, then don't get a dog, man. Because you know what? It's not playing in the park all day long. It's I've got to get home. Why?
Who wouldn't? But if you're not ready to have the dog when it ate something and now has diarrhea and it's raining outside and you've got to keep taking it outside and you've got to keep washing your cup, then don't get a dog, man. Because you know what? It's not playing in the park all day long. It's I've got to get home. Why?
200%. Are you kidding me? Because one of those sunny days is worth everything. And, by the way, if you love it enough, even that stupid part with the, like, it's an act of love. It's like, I don't care. Like, I don't care. I'll clean up after this thing. I fucking love it.
200%. Are you kidding me? Because one of those sunny days is worth everything. And, by the way, if you love it enough, even that stupid part with the, like, it's an act of love. It's like, I don't care. Like, I don't care. I'll clean up after this thing. I fucking love it.
200%. Are you kidding me? Because one of those sunny days is worth everything. And, by the way, if you love it enough, even that stupid part with the, like, it's an act of love. It's like, I don't care. Like, I don't care. I'll clean up after this thing. I fucking love it.
By the way, you love them so much that all you care about is like, it's okay, buddy. It's okay. My dog throws up and all. I'm like, it's okay. Get it out. It's okay.
By the way, you love them so much that all you care about is like, it's okay, buddy. It's okay. My dog throws up and all. I'm like, it's okay. Get it out. It's okay.
By the way, you love them so much that all you care about is like, it's okay, buddy. It's okay. My dog throws up and all. I'm like, it's okay. Get it out. It's okay.
Yeah. One more week. And you know what? Like, I think that... A romantic relationship, there is no reason why you can't use the courtship period to sort of test all those permutations. And I don't think, by the way, that people would just stop buying cars if you had a six-month trial period on the vehicle. I think there's something really okay.
Yeah. One more week. And you know what? Like, I think that... A romantic relationship, there is no reason why you can't use the courtship period to sort of test all those permutations. And I don't think, by the way, that people would just stop buying cars if you had a six-month trial period on the vehicle. I think there's something really okay.
Yeah. One more week. And you know what? Like, I think that... A romantic relationship, there is no reason why you can't use the courtship period to sort of test all those permutations. And I don't think, by the way, that people would just stop buying cars if you had a six-month trial period on the vehicle. I think there's something really okay.
Like you would still – maybe you would – when you made a choice, you would really be picking one that you really liked. So what I will say in response to the question – I made a long answer – is –
Like you would still – maybe you would – when you made a choice, you would really be picking one that you really liked. So what I will say in response to the question – I made a long answer – is –
Like you would still – maybe you would – when you made a choice, you would really be picking one that you really liked. So what I will say in response to the question – I made a long answer – is –
I don't think that a long courtship period – for example, if the courtship period, the length of it is a function of one of them being super reluctant to commit to the other person, that might not be a good indicator.
I don't think that a long courtship period – for example, if the courtship period, the length of it is a function of one of them being super reluctant to commit to the other person, that might not be a good indicator.
I don't think that a long courtship period – for example, if the courtship period, the length of it is a function of one of them being super reluctant to commit to the other person, that might not be a good indicator.
But if the purpose of that courtship period, that extended engagement or that extended dating period is to really get a feel of each other in a variety of conditions, like to know a thing, know its limits – When it's pushed beyond its tolerances, its nature emerges. So I think there's value in seeing, like, I don't want to just see you with makeup on.
But if the purpose of that courtship period, that extended engagement or that extended dating period is to really get a feel of each other in a variety of conditions, like to know a thing, know its limits – When it's pushed beyond its tolerances, its nature emerges. So I think there's value in seeing, like, I don't want to just see you with makeup on.
But if the purpose of that courtship period, that extended engagement or that extended dating period is to really get a feel of each other in a variety of conditions, like to know a thing, know its limits – When it's pushed beyond its tolerances, its nature emerges. So I think there's value in seeing, like, I don't want to just see you with makeup on.
Like, because you're going to not be wearing makeup for a lot of this relationship. I want to see what you look like coming out of the shower, you know? And by the way, like, you should want that. You should want that too. You want me to look at you with no makeup on and go, oh, you're beautiful. You look great. Like, do I love it when you put on makeup? Of course.
Like, because you're going to not be wearing makeup for a lot of this relationship. I want to see what you look like coming out of the shower, you know? And by the way, like, you should want that. You should want that too. You want me to look at you with no makeup on and go, oh, you're beautiful. You look great. Like, do I love it when you put on makeup? Of course.
Like, because you're going to not be wearing makeup for a lot of this relationship. I want to see what you look like coming out of the shower, you know? And by the way, like, you should want that. You should want that too. You want me to look at you with no makeup on and go, oh, you're beautiful. You look great. Like, do I love it when you put on makeup? Of course.
But do I love it when you've got the flu and like I can take care of you? Yeah, I love that too. That's beautiful in a different way. So I think... that if you use the time the right way, there's tremendous value in that, much better than just throwing a dart at the board. Like, I find this person attractive, they find me attractive, fuck it, let's do this thing.
But do I love it when you've got the flu and like I can take care of you? Yeah, I love that too. That's beautiful in a different way. So I think... that if you use the time the right way, there's tremendous value in that, much better than just throwing a dart at the board. Like, I find this person attractive, they find me attractive, fuck it, let's do this thing.
But do I love it when you've got the flu and like I can take care of you? Yeah, I love that too. That's beautiful in a different way. So I think... that if you use the time the right way, there's tremendous value in that, much better than just throwing a dart at the board. Like, I find this person attractive, they find me attractive, fuck it, let's do this thing.
Like, I don't think that that is a good recipe. I've seen a lot of divorces that come from a very brief courtship. But is that the death? No, no. I think sometimes people just get it right. I mean, listen, you and I both know people, take it out of the romantic context, right? Who just get rich quick. Like they make one cool decision and it just pays off. They make one good bet and it pays off.
Like, I don't think that that is a good recipe. I've seen a lot of divorces that come from a very brief courtship. But is that the death? No, no. I think sometimes people just get it right. I mean, listen, you and I both know people, take it out of the romantic context, right? Who just get rich quick. Like they make one cool decision and it just pays off. They make one good bet and it pays off.
Like, I don't think that that is a good recipe. I've seen a lot of divorces that come from a very brief courtship. But is that the death? No, no. I think sometimes people just get it right. I mean, listen, you and I both know people, take it out of the romantic context, right? Who just get rich quick. Like they make one cool decision and it just pays off. They make one good bet and it pays off.
I don't think it takes away from the romance or the beauty of a thing. You know, I often say my favorite poem is a poem by Joseph Brodsky called A Song. And he wrote it when his wife passed away. And it's a beautiful poem about love and loss. And the sort of refrain of the poem is, I wish you were here, dear. Like, I wish you were here, dear. I wish you were here.
I don't think it takes away from the romance or the beauty of a thing. You know, I often say my favorite poem is a poem by Joseph Brodsky called A Song. And he wrote it when his wife passed away. And it's a beautiful poem about love and loss. And the sort of refrain of the poem is, I wish you were here, dear. Like, I wish you were here, dear. I wish you were here.
I don't think it takes away from the romance or the beauty of a thing. You know, I often say my favorite poem is a poem by Joseph Brodsky called A Song. And he wrote it when his wife passed away. And it's a beautiful poem about love and loss. And the sort of refrain of the poem is, I wish you were here, dear. Like, I wish you were here, dear. I wish you were here.
And I know other people, man, they had to take the stairs. Like they had 15 versions of it and it went bankrupt three times and then one of the things hit. And that was the one. And then everybody goes, I always knew you were going to be successful. You know, I always knew that. Really? Because I didn't. Like it was a series of near misses until I hit. So I think it's the same thing.
And I know other people, man, they had to take the stairs. Like they had 15 versions of it and it went bankrupt three times and then one of the things hit. And that was the one. And then everybody goes, I always knew you were going to be successful. You know, I always knew that. Really? Because I didn't. Like it was a series of near misses until I hit. So I think it's the same thing.
And I know other people, man, they had to take the stairs. Like they had 15 versions of it and it went bankrupt three times and then one of the things hit. And that was the one. And then everybody goes, I always knew you were going to be successful. You know, I always knew that. Really? Because I didn't. Like it was a series of near misses until I hit. So I think it's the same thing.
I think how you use the time is what really matters. Love it.
I think how you use the time is what really matters. Love it.
I think how you use the time is what really matters. Love it.
So I think that, you know, a friend of mine once said to me that the most important or really the only question that therapy is designed to answer is what is it that you're afraid to feel? And so I think that there's tremendous value in sharing with a partner and learning about a partner what it is they're afraid to feel.
So I think that, you know, a friend of mine once said to me that the most important or really the only question that therapy is designed to answer is what is it that you're afraid to feel? And so I think that there's tremendous value in sharing with a partner and learning about a partner what it is they're afraid to feel.
So I think that, you know, a friend of mine once said to me that the most important or really the only question that therapy is designed to answer is what is it that you're afraid to feel? And so I think that there's tremendous value in sharing with a partner and learning about a partner what it is they're afraid to feel.
and looking at the things about yourself that you're afraid to share, I think in my own experience and I think in that of most of my clients, you know, I'm not religious. Like I'm not religious anymore. I was raised religious. So I don't really believe in the devil. Like I don't think that there's like this malevolent creature that's out there trying to convince people to be evil.
and looking at the things about yourself that you're afraid to share, I think in my own experience and I think in that of most of my clients, you know, I'm not religious. Like I'm not religious anymore. I was raised religious. So I don't really believe in the devil. Like I don't think that there's like this malevolent creature that's out there trying to convince people to be evil.
and looking at the things about yourself that you're afraid to share, I think in my own experience and I think in that of most of my clients, you know, I'm not religious. Like I'm not religious anymore. I was raised religious. So I don't really believe in the devil. Like I don't think that there's like this malevolent creature that's out there trying to convince people to be evil.
But if there was a devil... I think the principal function of the devil would be to convince us that we're so bestial that God couldn't possibly love us. Like, I think the greatest mistakes of my life I always made, and the most selfish, awful decisions I made, I made because I convinced myself that I wasn't good. Like I convinced myself that, what does it matter? Like nothing means anything.
But if there was a devil... I think the principal function of the devil would be to convince us that we're so bestial that God couldn't possibly love us. Like, I think the greatest mistakes of my life I always made, and the most selfish, awful decisions I made, I made because I convinced myself that I wasn't good. Like I convinced myself that, what does it matter? Like nothing means anything.
But if there was a devil... I think the principal function of the devil would be to convince us that we're so bestial that God couldn't possibly love us. Like, I think the greatest mistakes of my life I always made, and the most selfish, awful decisions I made, I made because I convinced myself that I wasn't good. Like I convinced myself that, what does it matter? Like nothing means anything.
I wish we sat in the car and you sat near. It's this beautiful poem. And one of the lines is, I wish you were here, dear. I wish you were here. I wish I knew no astronomy when stars appear. And I remember the first time I read that line thinking like, oh, that's so beautiful. Because once you know astronomy, there's something less magical about the stars.
I wish we sat in the car and you sat near. It's this beautiful poem. And one of the lines is, I wish you were here, dear. I wish you were here. I wish I knew no astronomy when stars appear. And I remember the first time I read that line thinking like, oh, that's so beautiful. Because once you know astronomy, there's something less magical about the stars.
I wish we sat in the car and you sat near. It's this beautiful poem. And one of the lines is, I wish you were here, dear. I wish you were here. I wish I knew no astronomy when stars appear. And I remember the first time I read that line thinking like, oh, that's so beautiful. Because once you know astronomy, there's something less magical about the stars.
Like just do whatever. Who cares? No one's looking. Just do it. It doesn't matter. And when I look at, whether you want to call it the presence of God in me, Buddha nature, call it anything you want to call it, but When I hold to the angels of my better nature, like the part of my heart that is good and loving and compassionate, and I let that be my compass, right?
Like just do whatever. Who cares? No one's looking. Just do it. It doesn't matter. And when I look at, whether you want to call it the presence of God in me, Buddha nature, call it anything you want to call it, but When I hold to the angels of my better nature, like the part of my heart that is good and loving and compassionate, and I let that be my compass, right?
Like just do whatever. Who cares? No one's looking. Just do it. It doesn't matter. And when I look at, whether you want to call it the presence of God in me, Buddha nature, call it anything you want to call it, but When I hold to the angels of my better nature, like the part of my heart that is good and loving and compassionate, and I let that be my compass, right?
That's when the greatest victories, the greatest joys, like the best things happen. And I'm not suggesting being, like, ignorant and being like, oh, the whole world's full of, like, puppies and sunshine. Listen, I'm a divorce lawyer, man. I live in the world of misery. But it has not robbed me of the belief in the good and the depth of the power of love, right?
That's when the greatest victories, the greatest joys, like the best things happen. And I'm not suggesting being, like, ignorant and being like, oh, the whole world's full of, like, puppies and sunshine. Listen, I'm a divorce lawyer, man. I live in the world of misery. But it has not robbed me of the belief in the good and the depth of the power of love, right?
That's when the greatest victories, the greatest joys, like the best things happen. And I'm not suggesting being, like, ignorant and being like, oh, the whole world's full of, like, puppies and sunshine. Listen, I'm a divorce lawyer, man. I live in the world of misery. But it has not robbed me of the belief in the good and the depth of the power of love, right?
And how badly I want it and how bad we all want it. And so... I think the most valuable thing that people can do is when you're not in a relationship or whether you're in a relationship is when do you feel the most loved and when do you feel the most loving, right? And then when you connect to another person, Find out the answer for them because it's probably different.
And how badly I want it and how bad we all want it. And so... I think the most valuable thing that people can do is when you're not in a relationship or whether you're in a relationship is when do you feel the most loved and when do you feel the most loving, right? And then when you connect to another person, Find out the answer for them because it's probably different.
And how badly I want it and how bad we all want it. And so... I think the most valuable thing that people can do is when you're not in a relationship or whether you're in a relationship is when do you feel the most loved and when do you feel the most loving, right? And then when you connect to another person, Find out the answer for them because it's probably different.
Like it might be some things that are the same, but there might be some things that are completely different. You know, there's a good possibility that if you told the creamer story that she would be like, oh, my God, I don't even remember that. Like I don't even remember that happening. And yet for you, it was such a – so I think there's a lot of those things.
Like it might be some things that are the same, but there might be some things that are completely different. You know, there's a good possibility that if you told the creamer story that she would be like, oh, my God, I don't even remember that. Like I don't even remember that happening. And yet for you, it was such a – so I think there's a lot of those things.
Like it might be some things that are the same, but there might be some things that are completely different. You know, there's a good possibility that if you told the creamer story that she would be like, oh, my God, I don't even remember that. Like I don't even remember that happening. And yet for you, it was such a – so I think there's a lot of those things.
Like sometimes when you ask somebody, what's your favorite memory of me? Like, the thing they'll tell you, you'll go, I don't even remember saying it. Like, I've had people say to me, like, oh, my God, you said this thing on this podcast. And I'm like, what was it? And they say it. I'm like, I said that? I'm like, I mean, it sounds like I agree with it.
Like sometimes when you ask somebody, what's your favorite memory of me? Like, the thing they'll tell you, you'll go, I don't even remember saying it. Like, I've had people say to me, like, oh, my God, you said this thing on this podcast. And I'm like, what was it? And they say it. I'm like, I said that? I'm like, I mean, it sounds like I agree with it.
Like sometimes when you ask somebody, what's your favorite memory of me? Like, the thing they'll tell you, you'll go, I don't even remember saying it. Like, I've had people say to me, like, oh, my God, you said this thing on this podcast. And I'm like, what was it? And they say it. I'm like, I said that? I'm like, I mean, it sounds like I agree with it.
Like, I have absolutely no recollection of saying it. I mean, partly I talk so much it's hard to remember what's important. But I really think that there's tremendous value in being brave in the conversations we have with ourselves about love. I think that lying to yourself – because here's the thing. If you can be authentically yourself with another person, then you're going to feel their love.
Like, I have absolutely no recollection of saying it. I mean, partly I talk so much it's hard to remember what's important. But I really think that there's tremendous value in being brave in the conversations we have with ourselves about love. I think that lying to yourself – because here's the thing. If you can be authentically yourself with another person, then you're going to feel their love.
Like, I have absolutely no recollection of saying it. I mean, partly I talk so much it's hard to remember what's important. But I really think that there's tremendous value in being brave in the conversations we have with ourselves about love. I think that lying to yourself – because here's the thing. If you can be authentically yourself with another person, then you're going to feel their love.
Like that's what I mean about the devil is the idea that like if I just show my partner the best parts of myself and I don't admit to them or share with them the things I'm afraid of, the shit I need to work on, all that kind of stuff – then I'm never going to feel their love because they don't love me. They love the character I'm playing.
Like that's what I mean about the devil is the idea that like if I just show my partner the best parts of myself and I don't admit to them or share with them the things I'm afraid of, the shit I need to work on, all that kind of stuff – then I'm never going to feel their love because they don't love me. They love the character I'm playing.
Like that's what I mean about the devil is the idea that like if I just show my partner the best parts of myself and I don't admit to them or share with them the things I'm afraid of, the shit I need to work on, all that kind of stuff – then I'm never going to feel their love because they don't love me. They love the character I'm playing.
They love the persona that I've developed in this relationship, and I'll never feel their love. Whereas if I'm brave enough to share with this person the parts of me that I don't understand, I'm afraid of, I'm unhappy with, I'm ashamed of, and they love me anyway, Like, then I'm going to really feel that love. And that love can be a transformative kind of love.
They love the persona that I've developed in this relationship, and I'll never feel their love. Whereas if I'm brave enough to share with this person the parts of me that I don't understand, I'm afraid of, I'm unhappy with, I'm ashamed of, and they love me anyway, Like, then I'm going to really feel that love. And that love can be a transformative kind of love.
They love the persona that I've developed in this relationship, and I'll never feel their love. Whereas if I'm brave enough to share with this person the parts of me that I don't understand, I'm afraid of, I'm unhappy with, I'm ashamed of, and they love me anyway, Like, then I'm going to really feel that love. And that love can be a transformative kind of love.
Like, that's a love worth having, you know. So I think anything that deepens your ability to know yourself and deepens your ability to know your partner and let your partner know that you want to know them. Like, the whole thing. Like, I want to know what you need to work on. I want to be here to help. Like, I'm here for you. I'm here. It's just like friendship. Friendship's easier.
Like, that's a love worth having, you know. So I think anything that deepens your ability to know yourself and deepens your ability to know your partner and let your partner know that you want to know them. Like, the whole thing. Like, I want to know what you need to work on. I want to be here to help. Like, I'm here for you. I'm here. It's just like friendship. Friendship's easier.
Like, that's a love worth having, you know. So I think anything that deepens your ability to know yourself and deepens your ability to know your partner and let your partner know that you want to know them. Like, the whole thing. Like, I want to know what you need to work on. I want to be here to help. Like, I'm here for you. I'm here. It's just like friendship. Friendship's easier.
Well, I don't know. See, I don't believe it has to be that way.
Well, I don't know. See, I don't believe it has to be that way.
Well, I don't know. See, I don't believe it has to be that way.
You know, friendship's easier than romantic love. Like, it's super easy to say, like, hey, man, you know I'm cheering for you. You know I am. I wouldn't be. I don't have to be here. Like, I don't have to be—that's part of why I like prenups. Like, I don't want you here because you have to be here. I want you here because you want to be here because you're in, man.
You know, friendship's easier than romantic love. Like, it's super easy to say, like, hey, man, you know I'm cheering for you. You know I am. I wouldn't be. I don't have to be here. Like, I don't have to be—that's part of why I like prenups. Like, I don't want you here because you have to be here. I want you here because you want to be here because you're in, man.
You know, friendship's easier than romantic love. Like, it's super easy to say, like, hey, man, you know I'm cheering for you. You know I am. I wouldn't be. I don't have to be here. Like, I don't have to be—that's part of why I like prenups. Like, I don't want you here because you have to be here. I want you here because you want to be here because you're in, man.
Like, there was a time where we were in, and we decided to do this thing. And that, to me, like, that's the whole thing. So I think that's the secret. In terms of if you're already in a relationship—
Like, there was a time where we were in, and we decided to do this thing. And that, to me, like, that's the whole thing. So I think that's the secret. In terms of if you're already in a relationship—
Like, there was a time where we were in, and we decided to do this thing. And that, to me, like, that's the whole thing. So I think that's the secret. In terms of if you're already in a relationship—
And you go, okay, like postnups, there's problems with postnups because from a contractual legal standpoint, contracts fail for what's called want of consideration, meaning that in every contract, there has to be an exchange of value. Like, so they use the car thing again. I'm giving you money, you're giving me a car. Like, we're each exchanging, we're each giving and receiving value.
And you go, okay, like postnups, there's problems with postnups because from a contractual legal standpoint, contracts fail for what's called want of consideration, meaning that in every contract, there has to be an exchange of value. Like, so they use the car thing again. I'm giving you money, you're giving me a car. Like, we're each exchanging, we're each giving and receiving value.
And you go, okay, like postnups, there's problems with postnups because from a contractual legal standpoint, contracts fail for what's called want of consideration, meaning that in every contract, there has to be an exchange of value. Like, so they use the car thing again. I'm giving you money, you're giving me a car. Like, we're each exchanging, we're each giving and receiving value.
The consideration for a prenup, is we don't have to get married, but I'm willing to marry you if we amend the rule set in the following way. So that has a mutuality of consideration. There are some courts that have held that a postnup, there is no consideration, and it fails as a contract. Because staying married is not consideration. It's assumed that you would stay married legally.
The consideration for a prenup, is we don't have to get married, but I'm willing to marry you if we amend the rule set in the following way. So that has a mutuality of consideration. There are some courts that have held that a postnup, there is no consideration, and it fails as a contract. Because staying married is not consideration. It's assumed that you would stay married legally.
The consideration for a prenup, is we don't have to get married, but I'm willing to marry you if we amend the rule set in the following way. So that has a mutuality of consideration. There are some courts that have held that a postnup, there is no consideration, and it fails as a contract. Because staying married is not consideration. It's assumed that you would stay married legally.
So that's why postnups can fail. Now, that being said, do I think the message that I have about... and how to interact with your partner and the things I wrote in my book. Like, you know, my book, How to Stay in Love, Practical Wisdom from an Unlikely Source. The idea is,
So that's why postnups can fail. Now, that being said, do I think the message that I have about... and how to interact with your partner and the things I wrote in my book. Like, you know, my book, How to Stay in Love, Practical Wisdom from an Unlikely Source. The idea is,
So that's why postnups can fail. Now, that being said, do I think the message that I have about... and how to interact with your partner and the things I wrote in my book. Like, you know, my book, How to Stay in Love, Practical Wisdom from an Unlikely Source. The idea is,
Was not to just talk about people in troubled relationships or to approach people who were not yet in relationships and give them a rule set to start with. Like I trained Brazilian jiu-jitsu for many years and people will often say – because people are 30, 40, 50 and they want to get into Brazilian jiu-jitsu. And, you know, there's an old joke. I don't know.
Was not to just talk about people in troubled relationships or to approach people who were not yet in relationships and give them a rule set to start with. Like I trained Brazilian jiu-jitsu for many years and people will often say – because people are 30, 40, 50 and they want to get into Brazilian jiu-jitsu. And, you know, there's an old joke. I don't know.
Was not to just talk about people in troubled relationships or to approach people who were not yet in relationships and give them a rule set to start with. Like I trained Brazilian jiu-jitsu for many years and people will often say – because people are 30, 40, 50 and they want to get into Brazilian jiu-jitsu. And, you know, there's an old joke. I don't know.
It was one of the Gracies who first said it. I don't want to offend Hoyler. I think it was Hoyler, but I'm not sure. It might have been Hickson. Where someone said, what's the best age to start jujitsu? And he said, five or now. And I think that's the answer. Like, so all these techniques, all these things we're talking about, what's the best time to implement them? The day you meet this person.
It was one of the Gracies who first said it. I don't want to offend Hoyler. I think it was Hoyler, but I'm not sure. It might have been Hickson. Where someone said, what's the best age to start jujitsu? And he said, five or now. And I think that's the answer. Like, so all these techniques, all these things we're talking about, what's the best time to implement them? The day you meet this person.
It was one of the Gracies who first said it. I don't want to offend Hoyler. I think it was Hoyler, but I'm not sure. It might have been Hickson. Where someone said, what's the best age to start jujitsu? And he said, five or now. And I think that's the answer. Like, so all these techniques, all these things we're talking about, what's the best time to implement them? The day you meet this person.
or now, like I don't care if you're married 10 years, 20 years, 30 years, you're telling me that right now there wouldn't be value in seeing your partner, allowing yourself to be seen by your partner. Like a lot of the practical wisdom, I think, that's so simple of like, in my book, there's a chapter where I just talk about, it's called Leave a Note.
or now, like I don't care if you're married 10 years, 20 years, 30 years, you're telling me that right now there wouldn't be value in seeing your partner, allowing yourself to be seen by your partner. Like a lot of the practical wisdom, I think, that's so simple of like, in my book, there's a chapter where I just talk about, it's called Leave a Note.
or now, like I don't care if you're married 10 years, 20 years, 30 years, you're telling me that right now there wouldn't be value in seeing your partner, allowing yourself to be seen by your partner. Like a lot of the practical wisdom, I think, that's so simple of like, in my book, there's a chapter where I just talk about, it's called Leave a Note.
And it basically just says like, leave your partner a note. Like when you leave for the office in the morning, leave a note. Like, hey, you know, so fun on the couch with you last night watching TV. I married the prettiest girl in the world. Can't wait to see you again. What does that take, 30 seconds? 30 seconds, right? Nothing. Such a minimal investment. Didn't cost you anything.
And it basically just says like, leave your partner a note. Like when you leave for the office in the morning, leave a note. Like, hey, you know, so fun on the couch with you last night watching TV. I married the prettiest girl in the world. Can't wait to see you again. What does that take, 30 seconds? 30 seconds, right? Nothing. Such a minimal investment. Didn't cost you anything.
And it basically just says like, leave your partner a note. Like when you leave for the office in the morning, leave a note. Like, hey, you know, so fun on the couch with you last night watching TV. I married the prettiest girl in the world. Can't wait to see you again. What does that take, 30 seconds? 30 seconds, right? Nothing. Such a minimal investment. Didn't cost you anything.
That's why you won't see it on TV advertised, by the way. Because it didn't cost anything. You don't have to buy anything. You don't need anything to do that thing. But what does it say to your partner? I see you. You're important to me. I took the time in the middle of the things I'm doing to let you know you're important to me. Like, and who wouldn't want that?
That's why you won't see it on TV advertised, by the way. Because it didn't cost anything. You don't have to buy anything. You don't need anything to do that thing. But what does it say to your partner? I see you. You're important to me. I took the time in the middle of the things I'm doing to let you know you're important to me. Like, and who wouldn't want that?
That's why you won't see it on TV advertised, by the way. Because it didn't cost anything. You don't have to buy anything. You don't need anything to do that thing. But what does it say to your partner? I see you. You're important to me. I took the time in the middle of the things I'm doing to let you know you're important to me. Like, and who wouldn't want that?
Who wouldn't want their partner, even after 20 years of marriage, especially after 20 years of marriage, to say, God, you're handsome. Like, I'm just, I don't know, something about you. Like, who wouldn't want to hear that? Like, who wouldn't have their day brightened by that a little bit? And again, maybe at first your partner would go, are you all right? What are you doing?
Who wouldn't want their partner, even after 20 years of marriage, especially after 20 years of marriage, to say, God, you're handsome. Like, I'm just, I don't know, something about you. Like, who wouldn't want to hear that? Like, who wouldn't have their day brightened by that a little bit? And again, maybe at first your partner would go, are you all right? What are you doing?
Who wouldn't want their partner, even after 20 years of marriage, especially after 20 years of marriage, to say, God, you're handsome. Like, I'm just, I don't know, something about you. Like, who wouldn't want to hear that? Like, who wouldn't have their day brightened by that a little bit? And again, maybe at first your partner would go, are you all right? What are you doing?
I had a buddy who actually did the note thing. And he said, he was like, yeah, for like the first week. She was like, what's going on? Are you having an affair? Like, are you dying? What's going on? And he said, but after like, and I just said, no, I, you know, I just, I want to make more of a point of like being present, you know?
I had a buddy who actually did the note thing. And he said, he was like, yeah, for like the first week. She was like, what's going on? Are you having an affair? Like, are you dying? What's going on? And he said, but after like, and I just said, no, I, you know, I just, I want to make more of a point of like being present, you know?
I had a buddy who actually did the note thing. And he said, he was like, yeah, for like the first week. She was like, what's going on? Are you having an affair? Like, are you dying? What's going on? And he said, but after like, and I just said, no, I, you know, I just, I want to make more of a point of like being present, you know?
And he said, after like three weeks, four weeks, he was like, dude, I'm having like, we're like having the best chapter. Like we're having more sex. We're having more fun. Like he's like, and now she's like texting me in the middle of the day. Like, by the way, like, again, not to gender things.
And he said, after like three weeks, four weeks, he was like, dude, I'm having like, we're like having the best chapter. Like we're having more sex. We're having more fun. Like he's like, and now she's like texting me in the middle of the day. Like, by the way, like, again, not to gender things.
And he said, after like three weeks, four weeks, he was like, dude, I'm having like, we're like having the best chapter. Like we're having more sex. We're having more fun. Like he's like, and now she's like texting me in the middle of the day. Like, by the way, like, again, not to gender things.
But, like, leaving a note or sending a text in the middle of the day that just goes, I was just thinking of you. Like, I just wanted you to know I was thinking of you. It's the equivalent of sending a man nudes. Like, because what does it say? It says, hey, like, I know the world's crazy and everything's kind of, but, like, it's you and me.
But, like, leaving a note or sending a text in the middle of the day that just goes, I was just thinking of you. Like, I just wanted you to know I was thinking of you. It's the equivalent of sending a man nudes. Like, because what does it say? It says, hey, like, I know the world's crazy and everything's kind of, but, like, it's you and me.
But, like, leaving a note or sending a text in the middle of the day that just goes, I was just thinking of you. Like, I just wanted you to know I was thinking of you. It's the equivalent of sending a man nudes. Like, because what does it say? It says, hey, like, I know the world's crazy and everything's kind of, but, like, it's you and me.
It's you and me, and you're this special person that gets to hear these things from me or see these things of me that other people don't get to see because I'm yours and you're mine. What is better than that? And what is the downside to trying? Because worst case, you spent 30 seconds of your life and you didn't get a return on your investment. Okay? You're no worse off than you were. So...
It's you and me, and you're this special person that gets to hear these things from me or see these things of me that other people don't get to see because I'm yours and you're mine. What is better than that? And what is the downside to trying? Because worst case, you spent 30 seconds of your life and you didn't get a return on your investment. Okay? You're no worse off than you were. So...
It's you and me, and you're this special person that gets to hear these things from me or see these things of me that other people don't get to see because I'm yours and you're mine. What is better than that? And what is the downside to trying? Because worst case, you spent 30 seconds of your life and you didn't get a return on your investment. Okay? You're no worse off than you were. So...
Even though you may not be able to avail yourself of the rule set concept that can happen when you haven't married yet and you have a prenup and you have that discussion, I think you could still have that core conversation. Again, not about if we split up, how do we divide our assets? That's not what this is about. It's about what do we owe each other?
Even though you may not be able to avail yourself of the rule set concept that can happen when you haven't married yet and you have a prenup and you have that discussion, I think you could still have that core conversation. Again, not about if we split up, how do we divide our assets? That's not what this is about. It's about what do we owe each other?
Even though you may not be able to avail yourself of the rule set concept that can happen when you haven't married yet and you have a prenup and you have that discussion, I think you could still have that core conversation. Again, not about if we split up, how do we divide our assets? That's not what this is about. It's about what do we owe each other?
What do we bring to this economy, this relationship of the two of us, this exchange of value? I have a friend. has been married probably about 10 years, happily, really happily. And he was telling me how they call it a walk and talk, that once a week they just go for a walk, like a hike together. They live in Colorado.
What do we bring to this economy, this relationship of the two of us, this exchange of value? I have a friend. has been married probably about 10 years, happily, really happily. And he was telling me how they call it a walk and talk, that once a week they just go for a walk, like a hike together. They live in Colorado.
What do we bring to this economy, this relationship of the two of us, this exchange of value? I have a friend. has been married probably about 10 years, happily, really happily. And he was telling me how they call it a walk and talk, that once a week they just go for a walk, like a hike together. They live in Colorado.
And they've made a practice of telling each other like two or three things that they did that week that like were a big win. Like two or three things that like made them feel loved or whatever it might be. And then they try to have at least one or two things that they could have done better or where they might have crossed wires.
And they've made a practice of telling each other like two or three things that they did that week that like were a big win. Like two or three things that like made them feel loved or whatever it might be. And then they try to have at least one or two things that they could have done better or where they might have crossed wires.
And they've made a practice of telling each other like two or three things that they did that week that like were a big win. Like two or three things that like made them feel loved or whatever it might be. And then they try to have at least one or two things that they could have done better or where they might have crossed wires.
And they kind of do a praise sandwich, you know, like so they do the good and then a few of the bad and then back to the good again. And I said to him, like, is there a discernible impact? And he's like, it's like the best thing we do. He's like, because it really helps us course correct in real time. But the most valuable part is actually not the here's what you got wrong.
And they kind of do a praise sandwich, you know, like so they do the good and then a few of the bad and then back to the good again. And I said to him, like, is there a discernible impact? And he's like, it's like the best thing we do. He's like, because it really helps us course correct in real time. But the most valuable part is actually not the here's what you got wrong.
And they kind of do a praise sandwich, you know, like so they do the good and then a few of the bad and then back to the good again. And I said to him, like, is there a discernible impact? And he's like, it's like the best thing we do. He's like, because it really helps us course correct in real time. But the most valuable part is actually not the here's what you got wrong.
It's the here's what you did right. Like, here's the stuff that made me feel loved. And because that death spiral that people get into in relationships is Where it's like, well, I'm not happy. Why should they be happy? I'm like, well, I didn't get to go out with my friends. Why should she get to go out with her friends? Well, I had a miserable day too.
It's the here's what you did right. Like, here's the stuff that made me feel loved. And because that death spiral that people get into in relationships is Where it's like, well, I'm not happy. Why should they be happy? I'm like, well, I didn't get to go out with my friends. Why should she get to go out with her friends? Well, I had a miserable day too.
It's the here's what you did right. Like, here's the stuff that made me feel loved. And because that death spiral that people get into in relationships is Where it's like, well, I'm not happy. Why should they be happy? I'm like, well, I didn't get to go out with my friends. Why should she get to go out with her friends? Well, I had a miserable day too.
Well, it's like, well, why is your miserable day more important than my miserable day? Like that death spiral, you can reverse that. It can work the other way, which is like just keep meeting this with an abundance of love, affection, compassion, positive reinforcement. And again, not always. Believe me, I work in the clay of domestic violence, intimate partner abuse.
Well, it's like, well, why is your miserable day more important than my miserable day? Like that death spiral, you can reverse that. It can work the other way, which is like just keep meeting this with an abundance of love, affection, compassion, positive reinforcement. And again, not always. Believe me, I work in the clay of domestic violence, intimate partner abuse.
Well, it's like, well, why is your miserable day more important than my miserable day? Like that death spiral, you can reverse that. It can work the other way, which is like just keep meeting this with an abundance of love, affection, compassion, positive reinforcement. And again, not always. Believe me, I work in the clay of domestic violence, intimate partner abuse.
I've seen it up close and personal. I know there are toxic, awful people who are just not going to be able to have a functional relationship. But find that out sooner rather than later. And then cut your losses and get out. Like, because I have to tell you something. You say how, you know, you see like a couple that's 70 or 80 and they're getting divorced and it's the saddest thing.
I've seen it up close and personal. I know there are toxic, awful people who are just not going to be able to have a functional relationship. But find that out sooner rather than later. And then cut your losses and get out. Like, because I have to tell you something. You say how, you know, you see like a couple that's 70 or 80 and they're getting divorced and it's the saddest thing.
I've seen it up close and personal. I know there are toxic, awful people who are just not going to be able to have a functional relationship. But find that out sooner rather than later. And then cut your losses and get out. Like, because I have to tell you something. You say how, you know, you see like a couple that's 70 or 80 and they're getting divorced and it's the saddest thing.
It is, but it also begs the question, like, what would have happened if they were ill-suited for each other? How long did they hold on? Because I got to tell you, man, I'm not impressed when somebody says, oh, we were married for 60 years. We were miserable for 45 of them, but we did it. Like, oh, great. Like, great.
It is, but it also begs the question, like, what would have happened if they were ill-suited for each other? How long did they hold on? Because I got to tell you, man, I'm not impressed when somebody says, oh, we were married for 60 years. We were miserable for 45 of them, but we did it. Like, oh, great. Like, great.
It is, but it also begs the question, like, what would have happened if they were ill-suited for each other? How long did they hold on? Because I got to tell you, man, I'm not impressed when somebody says, oh, we were married for 60 years. We were miserable for 45 of them, but we did it. Like, oh, great. Like, great.
Like, I don't, that's like that race they run in Death Valley where it's like I ran 150 miles in August. Okay. Like, what are you, that's great. That's insane. Like, but okay. Like, congratulations. You did something that sounds horribly painful and in no way positive. Like, but if you feel good about it, cool. Like, that's not to me a successful marriage.
Like, I don't, that's like that race they run in Death Valley where it's like I ran 150 miles in August. Okay. Like, what are you, that's great. That's insane. Like, but okay. Like, congratulations. You did something that sounds horribly painful and in no way positive. Like, but if you feel good about it, cool. Like, that's not to me a successful marriage.
Like, I don't, that's like that race they run in Death Valley where it's like I ran 150 miles in August. Okay. Like, what are you, that's great. That's insane. Like, but okay. Like, congratulations. You did something that sounds horribly painful and in no way positive. Like, but if you feel good about it, cool. Like, that's not to me a successful marriage.
Successful marriage to me is we made each other's lives better. We made our own lives and each other's lives better for our coupling, for the fact that we were together.
Successful marriage to me is we made each other's lives better. We made our own lives and each other's lives better for our coupling, for the fact that we were together.
Successful marriage to me is we made each other's lives better. We made our own lives and each other's lives better for our coupling, for the fact that we were together.
Maybe we created life and cultivated life together by birth or adoption, or maybe we just radiated joy to the people around us, you know, or maybe we had pets and we gave them a wonderful existence together, or maybe some combination of all those wonderful things. But Do I think that the solution is like longevity?
Maybe we created life and cultivated life together by birth or adoption, or maybe we just radiated joy to the people around us, you know, or maybe we had pets and we gave them a wonderful existence together, or maybe some combination of all those wonderful things. But Do I think that the solution is like longevity?
Maybe we created life and cultivated life together by birth or adoption, or maybe we just radiated joy to the people around us, you know, or maybe we had pets and we gave them a wonderful existence together, or maybe some combination of all those wonderful things. But Do I think that the solution is like longevity?
And say, no, because I don't think that the duration of something is the success or failure of it. Listen, if you make a six-hour shitty movie, I'm not going to be like, whoa, but it was six full hours. That is pretty good. Like, no. Whereas if you make a six-hour movie that holds my attention the entire six hours, that's a damn good movie. That's a movie worth making, you know?
And say, no, because I don't think that the duration of something is the success or failure of it. Listen, if you make a six-hour shitty movie, I'm not going to be like, whoa, but it was six full hours. That is pretty good. Like, no. Whereas if you make a six-hour movie that holds my attention the entire six hours, that's a damn good movie. That's a movie worth making, you know?
And say, no, because I don't think that the duration of something is the success or failure of it. Listen, if you make a six-hour shitty movie, I'm not going to be like, whoa, but it was six full hours. That is pretty good. Like, no. Whereas if you make a six-hour movie that holds my attention the entire six hours, that's a damn good movie. That's a movie worth making, you know?
Like I'll watch Casino or Goodfellas every time it's on. And it's like a full three hours almost, you know? And I don't care because it's that good. So I think that longevity, like endings and how relationships end, the fact that something ends does not mean that it wasn't valuable, like at all. I think that's a really crazy thing. Like every movie I've ever enjoyed ended.
Like I'll watch Casino or Goodfellas every time it's on. And it's like a full three hours almost, you know? And I don't care because it's that good. So I think that longevity, like endings and how relationships end, the fact that something ends does not mean that it wasn't valuable, like at all. I think that's a really crazy thing. Like every movie I've ever enjoyed ended.
Like I'll watch Casino or Goodfellas every time it's on. And it's like a full three hours almost, you know? And I don't care because it's that good. So I think that longevity, like endings and how relationships end, the fact that something ends does not mean that it wasn't valuable, like at all. I think that's a really crazy thing. Like every movie I've ever enjoyed ended.
And if somebody said to me three quarters way through it, you know, this is going to end, I wouldn't be like, well, what's the point? You know, no, I want to watch the whole thing. And knowing that it's going to end is part of what makes it beautiful. So I think that protections are really important. Prenups are really important.
And if somebody said to me three quarters way through it, you know, this is going to end, I wouldn't be like, well, what's the point? You know, no, I want to watch the whole thing. And knowing that it's going to end is part of what makes it beautiful. So I think that protections are really important. Prenups are really important.
And if somebody said to me three quarters way through it, you know, this is going to end, I wouldn't be like, well, what's the point? You know, no, I want to watch the whole thing. And knowing that it's going to end is part of what makes it beautiful. So I think that protections are really important. Prenups are really important.
It's ideal as early in a relationship as possible to have some of these conversations about the painful things that I have to help people wrestle with every single day. But I think the value received from that conversation is immeasurable.
It's ideal as early in a relationship as possible to have some of these conversations about the painful things that I have to help people wrestle with every single day. But I think the value received from that conversation is immeasurable.
It's ideal as early in a relationship as possible to have some of these conversations about the painful things that I have to help people wrestle with every single day. But I think the value received from that conversation is immeasurable.
And I think some of the awful things are really beautiful. There's a line from Hemingway from A Farewell to Arms where he says, the world breaks everyone and some are stronger in the broken places. And I think divorce and heartbreak, like heartbreak is like that. Like heartbreak breaks everyone. And sometimes we're stronger in the broken places.
And I think some of the awful things are really beautiful. There's a line from Hemingway from A Farewell to Arms where he says, the world breaks everyone and some are stronger in the broken places. And I think divorce and heartbreak, like heartbreak is like that. Like heartbreak breaks everyone. And sometimes we're stronger in the broken places.
And I think some of the awful things are really beautiful. There's a line from Hemingway from A Farewell to Arms where he says, the world breaks everyone and some are stronger in the broken places. And I think divorce and heartbreak, like heartbreak is like that. Like heartbreak breaks everyone. And sometimes we're stronger in the broken places.
Like I think I've learned so much through love and I've learned so much through loss. And I don't want my love of love to make me forget that loss exists. And I don't want the pain of loss to make me forget that love exists.
Like I think I've learned so much through love and I've learned so much through loss. And I don't want my love of love to make me forget that loss exists. And I don't want the pain of loss to make me forget that love exists.
Like I think I've learned so much through love and I've learned so much through loss. And I don't want my love of love to make me forget that loss exists. And I don't want the pain of loss to make me forget that love exists.
But I think a point you're making that I think I would slightly reframe is the following. There is a contract that binds you and your business partner. It was written by the legislature of the state in which you reside. So do you want your relationship with this person governed by by a contract you didn't write, you had no input in, and the government can change without your consent or knowledge.
But I think a point you're making that I think I would slightly reframe is the following. There is a contract that binds you and your business partner. It was written by the legislature of the state in which you reside. So do you want your relationship with this person governed by by a contract you didn't write, you had no input in, and the government can change without your consent or knowledge.
But I think a point you're making that I think I would slightly reframe is the following. There is a contract that binds you and your business partner. It was written by the legislature of the state in which you reside. So do you want your relationship with this person governed by by a contract you didn't write, you had no input in, and the government can change without your consent or knowledge.
I mean, I love talking to you in general, but we've never done it on mic, which is really funny.
I mean, I love talking to you in general, but we've never done it on mic, which is really funny.
I mean, I love talking to you in general, but we've never done it on mic, which is really funny.
That was the most Huberman description of me. I love it. The density of value within that. I love the scientific lens through which you even look at the unscientific, although I guess everything is scientific in some ways. But no, man, I'm really glad we had a chance to do this. And You know, I love all of our conversations.
That was the most Huberman description of me. I love it. The density of value within that. I love the scientific lens through which you even look at the unscientific, although I guess everything is scientific in some ways. But no, man, I'm really glad we had a chance to do this. And You know, I love all of our conversations.
That was the most Huberman description of me. I love it. The density of value within that. I love the scientific lens through which you even look at the unscientific, although I guess everything is scientific in some ways. But no, man, I'm really glad we had a chance to do this. And You know, I love all of our conversations.
And I thought to myself, it's going to be interesting and odd to have one. But I sort of immediately forgot that the microphone's here or the camera's here. And that's really lovely. Like, that's the best thing, you know, is when... Like if you said to me how long have we been talking, I would imagine it's like an hour, but I know it's way longer than that. I have no idea, though.
And I thought to myself, it's going to be interesting and odd to have one. But I sort of immediately forgot that the microphone's here or the camera's here. And that's really lovely. Like, that's the best thing, you know, is when... Like if you said to me how long have we been talking, I would imagine it's like an hour, but I know it's way longer than that. I have no idea, though.
And I thought to myself, it's going to be interesting and odd to have one. But I sort of immediately forgot that the microphone's here or the camera's here. And that's really lovely. Like, that's the best thing, you know, is when... Like if you said to me how long have we been talking, I would imagine it's like an hour, but I know it's way longer than that. I have no idea, though.
I've completely – and that's that flow state, you know, that happens when we're wrestling with these ideas that are the most human ideas. And I love – I want to pay you a compliment on that. You know, before we were friends, I listened to your program in the earlier days of it. And I love how the journey of...
I've completely – and that's that flow state, you know, that happens when we're wrestling with these ideas that are the most human ideas. And I love – I want to pay you a compliment on that. You know, before we were friends, I listened to your program in the earlier days of it. And I love how the journey of...
I've completely – and that's that flow state, you know, that happens when we're wrestling with these ideas that are the most human ideas. And I love – I want to pay you a compliment on that. You know, before we were friends, I listened to your program in the earlier days of it. And I love how the journey of...
Becoming fully human and exploring the depth of our full humanity has become – like because something that was always very science-based tools and it's very easy to sort of just keep yourself in that box, you've really stepped out of your comfort zone, especially in recent years, and brought in –
Becoming fully human and exploring the depth of our full humanity has become – like because something that was always very science-based tools and it's very easy to sort of just keep yourself in that box, you've really stepped out of your comfort zone, especially in recent years, and brought in –
Becoming fully human and exploring the depth of our full humanity has become – like because something that was always very science-based tools and it's very easy to sort of just keep yourself in that box, you've really stepped out of your comfort zone, especially in recent years, and brought in –
these things that really are the totality of the human experience, all these relationship things, the pet thing I just listened to, I loved like, and I think that, that we're coming to a time where we realize that like, you know, we're, we're, what's the old saying that we're, you know, we're not thinking machines that sometimes feel we're feeling machines that sometimes think, you know, I think that you're really starting to,
these things that really are the totality of the human experience, all these relationship things, the pet thing I just listened to, I loved like, and I think that, that we're coming to a time where we realize that like, you know, we're, we're, what's the old saying that we're, you know, we're not thinking machines that sometimes feel we're feeling machines that sometimes think, you know, I think that you're really starting to,
these things that really are the totality of the human experience, all these relationship things, the pet thing I just listened to, I loved like, and I think that, that we're coming to a time where we realize that like, you know, we're, we're, what's the old saying that we're, you know, we're not thinking machines that sometimes feel we're feeling machines that sometimes think, you know, I think that you're really starting to,
get deeply into the totality of our humanity, the physical state, the emotional, spiritual, all of those things. And I think that's what we need, that if there is a cure, to the ailment of our time, the partisan, hyperpartisan environment, the misery and anxiety that so many people are feeling and the yearning, the spiritual hunger that has people consuming opinions and podcasts like deeply.
get deeply into the totality of our humanity, the physical state, the emotional, spiritual, all of those things. And I think that's what we need, that if there is a cure, to the ailment of our time, the partisan, hyperpartisan environment, the misery and anxiety that so many people are feeling and the yearning, the spiritual hunger that has people consuming opinions and podcasts like deeply.
get deeply into the totality of our humanity, the physical state, the emotional, spiritual, all of those things. And I think that's what we need, that if there is a cure, to the ailment of our time, the partisan, hyperpartisan environment, the misery and anxiety that so many people are feeling and the yearning, the spiritual hunger that has people consuming opinions and podcasts like deeply.
I mean, who would have ever thought podcasts would be what it is, right? Like long form audio conversations, like we would go back to the radio. Like when we can world build with AI now and make anything visual for us, that we would go back to finding wisdom in this? And the fact that, like, that hunger is being fed by people like you who are saying, hey, like, this isn't – science won't save us.
I mean, who would have ever thought podcasts would be what it is, right? Like long form audio conversations, like we would go back to the radio. Like when we can world build with AI now and make anything visual for us, that we would go back to finding wisdom in this? And the fact that, like, that hunger is being fed by people like you who are saying, hey, like, this isn't – science won't save us.
I mean, who would have ever thought podcasts would be what it is, right? Like long form audio conversations, like we would go back to the radio. Like when we can world build with AI now and make anything visual for us, that we would go back to finding wisdom in this? And the fact that, like, that hunger is being fed by people like you who are saying, hey, like, this isn't – science won't save us.
Spirituality won't save us. Love won't save us. Anger won't save us. All of it. We need all of it. And we need to try to wrestle with it and figure it out. And no one is necessarily better at this. Like you can – whatever car you drive, whatever profession, how much money you have in the bank, you may not be better or worse at this.
Spirituality won't save us. Love won't save us. Anger won't save us. All of it. We need all of it. And we need to try to wrestle with it and figure it out. And no one is necessarily better at this. Like you can – whatever car you drive, whatever profession, how much money you have in the bank, you may not be better or worse at this.
Spirituality won't save us. Love won't save us. Anger won't save us. All of it. We need all of it. And we need to try to wrestle with it and figure it out. And no one is necessarily better at this. Like you can – whatever car you drive, whatever profession, how much money you have in the bank, you may not be better or worse at this.
So I think it's really beautiful that you're – the palette of things that you're discussing has become so broad. But you have remained very much you and very able to, like, bring it to a lens that is authentically yourself. And I love that about the show. Like, I remain a friend, but I also remain a fan.
So I think it's really beautiful that you're – the palette of things that you're discussing has become so broad. But you have remained very much you and very able to, like, bring it to a lens that is authentically yourself. And I love that about the show. Like, I remain a friend, but I also remain a fan.
So I think it's really beautiful that you're – the palette of things that you're discussing has become so broad. But you have remained very much you and very able to, like, bring it to a lens that is authentically yourself. And I love that about the show. Like, I remain a friend, but I also remain a fan.
And by the way, once they've changed it, you can't say, oh, I don't like the new rules, so I don't want those to apply. Yeah, too late. Too late. So I tell everyone, you have a prenup. Every married person has a prenup. It was either written by the government or or written by the two people who allegedly love each other more than the other 8 billion other options in the world.
And by the way, once they've changed it, you can't say, oh, I don't like the new rules, so I don't want those to apply. Yeah, too late. Too late. So I tell everyone, you have a prenup. Every married person has a prenup. It was either written by the government or or written by the two people who allegedly love each other more than the other 8 billion other options in the world.
And by the way, once they've changed it, you can't say, oh, I don't like the new rules, so I don't want those to apply. Yeah, too late. Too late. So I tell everyone, you have a prenup. Every married person has a prenup. It was either written by the government or or written by the two people who allegedly love each other more than the other 8 billion other options in the world.
Now, if you ask me, who is going to write a better contract? Unnamed politicians who are subject to being elected and unelected, or two people who have an abundance of optimism towards each other? Like, there's a rule set. There's a rule set.
Now, if you ask me, who is going to write a better contract? Unnamed politicians who are subject to being elected and unelected, or two people who have an abundance of optimism towards each other? Like, there's a rule set. There's a rule set.
Now, if you ask me, who is going to write a better contract? Unnamed politicians who are subject to being elected and unelected, or two people who have an abundance of optimism towards each other? Like, there's a rule set. There's a rule set.
And if you're signing up for a rule set you wrote or co-authored with your partner, I think you're in a better place than saying, let's trust it to the government. I have to tell you, I've been to the DMV. I've never walked into the DMV and thought, these people should be in charge of everything. This is great. They have got it down. They should be in charge of my marriage.
And if you're signing up for a rule set you wrote or co-authored with your partner, I think you're in a better place than saying, let's trust it to the government. I have to tell you, I've been to the DMV. I've never walked into the DMV and thought, these people should be in charge of everything. This is great. They have got it down. They should be in charge of my marriage.
And if you're signing up for a rule set you wrote or co-authored with your partner, I think you're in a better place than saying, let's trust it to the government. I have to tell you, I've been to the DMV. I've never walked into the DMV and thought, these people should be in charge of everything. This is great. They have got it down. They should be in charge of my marriage.
They should be in charge of my business dealings. They should be the ones who make the rules because they're clearly so together in their thinking. I don't feel that way. I feel like... There is tremendous value in the level of trust and optimism that two people at the beginning of a venture, whether that venture is a marriage or whether that venture is a business venture.
They should be in charge of my business dealings. They should be the ones who make the rules because they're clearly so together in their thinking. I don't feel that way. I feel like... There is tremendous value in the level of trust and optimism that two people at the beginning of a venture, whether that venture is a marriage or whether that venture is a business venture.
They should be in charge of my business dealings. They should be the ones who make the rules because they're clearly so together in their thinking. I don't feel that way. I feel like... There is tremendous value in the level of trust and optimism that two people at the beginning of a venture, whether that venture is a marriage or whether that venture is a business venture.
While we're in this heavy space of optimism, excitement, trust in each other, that's the time to say, hey, we're going to disagree about something at some point. It happens. It may be my fault. I say dumb shit. I say dumb shit all the time. So I'll probably say something that's going to upset you. So why would you learn how to fight while you're in a fight?
While we're in this heavy space of optimism, excitement, trust in each other, that's the time to say, hey, we're going to disagree about something at some point. It happens. It may be my fault. I say dumb shit. I say dumb shit all the time. So I'll probably say something that's going to upset you. So why would you learn how to fight while you're in a fight?
While we're in this heavy space of optimism, excitement, trust in each other, that's the time to say, hey, we're going to disagree about something at some point. It happens. It may be my fault. I say dumb shit. I say dumb shit all the time. So I'll probably say something that's going to upset you. So why would you learn how to fight while you're in a fight?
Like, learn how to fight before you get in a fight. Learn the rule set. Have a discussion about, hey, if we disagree, what's the best way? Do you need a minute? Do you need some time to yourself to, like, kind of cool off? Or are you the kind of person that's like, no, we got to sort this out right now. I can't go to bed angry. I'll fester. So that, to me...
Like, learn how to fight before you get in a fight. Learn the rule set. Have a discussion about, hey, if we disagree, what's the best way? Do you need a minute? Do you need some time to yourself to, like, kind of cool off? Or are you the kind of person that's like, no, we got to sort this out right now. I can't go to bed angry. I'll fester. So that, to me...
Like, learn how to fight before you get in a fight. Learn the rule set. Have a discussion about, hey, if we disagree, what's the best way? Do you need a minute? Do you need some time to yourself to, like, kind of cool off? Or are you the kind of person that's like, no, we got to sort this out right now. I can't go to bed angry. I'll fester. So that, to me...
The right mindset is not faith and trust or contracts. I think that's the totally wrong way to frame it. I think the right way to frame it is there's a contract. Whether you want to call it a contract or not, just like there's an economy. An economy is an exchange of value. You know, this many bananas is worth this many coconuts. Because if it was, how many bananas will you trade me for bananas?
The right mindset is not faith and trust or contracts. I think that's the totally wrong way to frame it. I think the right way to frame it is there's a contract. Whether you want to call it a contract or not, just like there's an economy. An economy is an exchange of value. You know, this many bananas is worth this many coconuts. Because if it was, how many bananas will you trade me for bananas?
The right mindset is not faith and trust or contracts. I think that's the totally wrong way to frame it. I think the right way to frame it is there's a contract. Whether you want to call it a contract or not, just like there's an economy. An economy is an exchange of value. You know, this many bananas is worth this many coconuts. Because if it was, how many bananas will you trade me for bananas?
That's not an economy. Like, we're not bringing the same thing to the table. So it's the same thing. Why is it a dirty word to say, hey, I'm marrying you. Why? What do I bring to your life? What do I mean to you? What value do I present to you? And what value do you present to me so I know what to protect and preserve? You know, so I know, like, when that slips to start talking to you about it.
That's not an economy. Like, we're not bringing the same thing to the table. So it's the same thing. Why is it a dirty word to say, hey, I'm marrying you. Why? What do I bring to your life? What do I mean to you? What value do I present to you? And what value do you present to me so I know what to protect and preserve? You know, so I know, like, when that slips to start talking to you about it.
That's not an economy. Like, we're not bringing the same thing to the table. So it's the same thing. Why is it a dirty word to say, hey, I'm marrying you. Why? What do I bring to your life? What do I mean to you? What value do I present to you? And what value do you present to me so I know what to protect and preserve? You know, so I know, like, when that slips to start talking to you about it.
And by the way, you can tell me and remind me when, hey— This thing I loved about you has changed. So like you talked about all these good things about your business partner. Like, oh, he has this vision or he has this patience or he has this organizational skill and he makes up for some things that I don't have. Like if you just said, oh yeah, he has the exact same characteristics as me.
And by the way, you can tell me and remind me when, hey— This thing I loved about you has changed. So like you talked about all these good things about your business partner. Like, oh, he has this vision or he has this patience or he has this organizational skill and he makes up for some things that I don't have. Like if you just said, oh yeah, he has the exact same characteristics as me.
And by the way, you can tell me and remind me when, hey— This thing I loved about you has changed. So like you talked about all these good things about your business partner. Like, oh, he has this vision or he has this patience or he has this organizational skill and he makes up for some things that I don't have. Like if you just said, oh yeah, he has the exact same characteristics as me.
It's like, well, what do you need him then? It's many hands light work, maybe. But ideally, you have the Steve Jobs and the Steve Wozniak, either of whom without the other would have been kind of eh. But together, it's like lightning in a bottle. So I just genuinely think framing this slightly differently and saying there's going to be a rule set. So we are the best people to write that rule set.
It's like, well, what do you need him then? It's many hands light work, maybe. But ideally, you have the Steve Jobs and the Steve Wozniak, either of whom without the other would have been kind of eh. But together, it's like lightning in a bottle. So I just genuinely think framing this slightly differently and saying there's going to be a rule set. So we are the best people to write that rule set.
It's like, well, what do you need him then? It's many hands light work, maybe. But ideally, you have the Steve Jobs and the Steve Wozniak, either of whom without the other would have been kind of eh. But together, it's like lightning in a bottle. So I just genuinely think framing this slightly differently and saying there's going to be a rule set. So we are the best people to write that rule set.
That's the way to look at it.
That's the way to look at it.
That's the way to look at it.
You know, what do we owe each other? That's a huge piece for me. It's like, why are we doing this? You know, what is the problem we seek to solve? Or what is the value we add to each other's lives? That's such a beautiful question. Like, and by the way, it's an invitation to such an intimate discussion. Like, these are the things that you make me feel.
You know, what do we owe each other? That's a huge piece for me. It's like, why are we doing this? You know, what is the problem we seek to solve? Or what is the value we add to each other's lives? That's such a beautiful question. Like, and by the way, it's an invitation to such an intimate discussion. Like, these are the things that you make me feel.
You know, what do we owe each other? That's a huge piece for me. It's like, why are we doing this? You know, what is the problem we seek to solve? Or what is the value we add to each other's lives? That's such a beautiful question. Like, and by the way, it's an invitation to such an intimate discussion. Like, these are the things that you make me feel.
Like, these are the things you do that make me feel that way. Like, you make me feel loved. Yeah. Really, when? When you remember that tea that I like and you make sure that it's here, you know, or, oh, when you, you know, remembered it was my sister's birthday and sent her a text and then sent me a screenshot. Like, these are this dumb little things that make us feel so loved and seen.
Like, these are the things you do that make me feel that way. Like, you make me feel loved. Yeah. Really, when? When you remember that tea that I like and you make sure that it's here, you know, or, oh, when you, you know, remembered it was my sister's birthday and sent her a text and then sent me a screenshot. Like, these are this dumb little things that make us feel so loved and seen.
Like, these are the things you do that make me feel that way. Like, you make me feel loved. Yeah. Really, when? When you remember that tea that I like and you make sure that it's here, you know, or, oh, when you, you know, remembered it was my sister's birthday and sent her a text and then sent me a screenshot. Like, these are this dumb little things that make us feel so loved and seen.
So why wouldn't we? embrace an opportunity to say to this person, by the way, like, do you know what I love about you? Do you know what you do that makes me feel so loved and makes me feel so in love with you? Because that's a worthy conversation.
So why wouldn't we? embrace an opportunity to say to this person, by the way, like, do you know what I love about you? Do you know what you do that makes me feel so loved and makes me feel so in love with you? Because that's a worthy conversation.
So why wouldn't we? embrace an opportunity to say to this person, by the way, like, do you know what I love about you? Do you know what you do that makes me feel so loved and makes me feel so in love with you? Because that's a worthy conversation.
Of course. And I will tell you, I've been doing prenuptial agreements for 25 years for clients. And I usually end up having a very good relationship with the person I do a prenup with because you're talking a lot about their fears, their hopes.
Of course. And I will tell you, I've been doing prenuptial agreements for 25 years for clients. And I usually end up having a very good relationship with the person I do a prenup with because you're talking a lot about their fears, their hopes.
Of course. And I will tell you, I've been doing prenuptial agreements for 25 years for clients. And I usually end up having a very good relationship with the person I do a prenup with because you're talking a lot about their fears, their hopes.
I wanted to ask this. One at a time. So each of you has your own lawyer. Each of you has your own attorney. You cannot, as a lawyer, represent both people because they have what's called potentially adverse interests.
I wanted to ask this. One at a time. So each of you has your own lawyer. Each of you has your own attorney. You cannot, as a lawyer, represent both people because they have what's called potentially adverse interests.
I wanted to ask this. One at a time. So each of you has your own lawyer. Each of you has your own attorney. You cannot, as a lawyer, represent both people because they have what's called potentially adverse interests.
Yeah, it's unfortunate. It's an unfortunate thing. I mean, one of the projects I've been involved in in the last couple of months is a website, trustedprenup.com. I worked with a couple of tech people to put together something that's going to democratize prenups.
Yeah, it's unfortunate. It's an unfortunate thing. I mean, one of the projects I've been involved in in the last couple of months is a website, trustedprenup.com. I worked with a couple of tech people to put together something that's going to democratize prenups.
Yeah, it's unfortunate. It's an unfortunate thing. I mean, one of the projects I've been involved in in the last couple of months is a website, trustedprenup.com. I worked with a couple of tech people to put together something that's going to democratize prenups.
Because up until now, prenups have been something that, you know, you spend $5,000, $10,000, $15,000 for a traditional lawyer to draft for you, and then your fiance brings it to an attorney to review, and then they want to make revisions. And it sort of walks into this adversarial process as opposed to sort of democratizing prenups.
Because up until now, prenups have been something that, you know, you spend $5,000, $10,000, $15,000 for a traditional lawyer to draft for you, and then your fiance brings it to an attorney to review, and then they want to make revisions. And it sort of walks into this adversarial process as opposed to sort of democratizing prenups.
Because up until now, prenups have been something that, you know, you spend $5,000, $10,000, $15,000 for a traditional lawyer to draft for you, and then your fiance brings it to an attorney to review, and then they want to make revisions. And it sort of walks into this adversarial process as opposed to sort of democratizing prenups.
So what we are trying to do is sort of leverage technological innovation, AI, my potential Hundreds of prenups I've drafted, we sort of fed into this to create the ability for you to go online and to create a prenup for like in the realm of $600, $700. That would be a game changer. It's really an opportunity.
So what we are trying to do is sort of leverage technological innovation, AI, my potential Hundreds of prenups I've drafted, we sort of fed into this to create the ability for you to go online and to create a prenup for like in the realm of $600, $700. That would be a game changer. It's really an opportunity.
So what we are trying to do is sort of leverage technological innovation, AI, my potential Hundreds of prenups I've drafted, we sort of fed into this to create the ability for you to go online and to create a prenup for like in the realm of $600, $700. That would be a game changer. It's really an opportunity.
But the purpose of it, as far as I'm concerned, is not just to democratize prenups, which I think we have to do, but to really reframe the way we look at it. Because people come in all the time and they're like, well, I don't know if I need a prenup because I'm not wealthy. And you say, well, you're still going to have a rule set applied to your marriage.
But the purpose of it, as far as I'm concerned, is not just to democratize prenups, which I think we have to do, but to really reframe the way we look at it. Because people come in all the time and they're like, well, I don't know if I need a prenup because I'm not wealthy. And you say, well, you're still going to have a rule set applied to your marriage.
But the purpose of it, as far as I'm concerned, is not just to democratize prenups, which I think we have to do, but to really reframe the way we look at it. Because people come in all the time and they're like, well, I don't know if I need a prenup because I'm not wealthy. And you say, well, you're still going to have a rule set applied to your marriage.
And actually, if you're super wealthy, like most of my clients, they can afford to buy six more houses. Like you keep the house, I'll buy another house down the street, and then we'll buy another house for the kids, and then we'll visit with them in that house. Like that's actually called nesting. That's a thing. That's nesting? When I was coming up, nesting meant something very different.
And actually, if you're super wealthy, like most of my clients, they can afford to buy six more houses. Like you keep the house, I'll buy another house down the street, and then we'll buy another house for the kids, and then we'll visit with them in that house. Like that's actually called nesting. That's a thing. That's nesting? When I was coming up, nesting meant something very different.
And actually, if you're super wealthy, like most of my clients, they can afford to buy six more houses. Like you keep the house, I'll buy another house down the street, and then we'll buy another house for the kids, and then we'll visit with them in that house. Like that's actually called nesting. That's a thing. That's nesting? When I was coming up, nesting meant something very different.
Nesting now is when you each have your own home, and then one home is just where the kids live. And instead of doing a custodial rotation where the kids go back and forth between homes, the kids have a home, and the parent who has parenting access during that time is in the nest with the kids.
Nesting now is when you each have your own home, and then one home is just where the kids live. And instead of doing a custodial rotation where the kids go back and forth between homes, the kids have a home, and the parent who has parenting access during that time is in the nest with the kids.
Nesting now is when you each have your own home, and then one home is just where the kids live. And instead of doing a custodial rotation where the kids go back and forth between homes, the kids have a home, and the parent who has parenting access during that time is in the nest with the kids.
Yeah, it's a very – it's a very – the rich divorce in different ways than the normal general populace. And so that's why we're trying to say, look, bring this – democratize this. Bring this to – let people develop a rule set because especially too when you have scarcity. Like most people can't afford to give away one half of everything they have and still have enough to function.
Yeah, it's a very – it's a very – the rich divorce in different ways than the normal general populace. And so that's why we're trying to say, look, bring this – democratize this. Bring this to – let people develop a rule set because especially too when you have scarcity. Like most people can't afford to give away one half of everything they have and still have enough to function.
Yeah, it's a very – it's a very – the rich divorce in different ways than the normal general populace. And so that's why we're trying to say, look, bring this – democratize this. Bring this to – let people develop a rule set because especially too when you have scarcity. Like most people can't afford to give away one half of everything they have and still have enough to function.
Most people are going paycheck to paycheck. Most people are a couple of paychecks off from being in bankruptcy if things don't go the right way. So when they divorce and now we have two electric bills and two internet bills and two, that's something most people can't do. So all the more reason for people to have a rule set that the two of them created.
Most people are going paycheck to paycheck. Most people are a couple of paychecks off from being in bankruptcy if things don't go the right way. So when they divorce and now we have two electric bills and two internet bills and two, that's something most people can't do. So all the more reason for people to have a rule set that the two of them created.
Most people are going paycheck to paycheck. Most people are a couple of paychecks off from being in bankruptcy if things don't go the right way. So when they divorce and now we have two electric bills and two internet bills and two, that's something most people can't do. So all the more reason for people to have a rule set that the two of them created.
Again, when they were feeling positive and benevolent and optimistic towards each other and they were trying to protect you. Because to me personally, I don't know how you can feel loved if you don't feel safe. Like I think you have to feel safe, emotionally safe, physically safe. Like if you're afraid of your partner emotionally, physically, how can you really feel loved?
Again, when they were feeling positive and benevolent and optimistic towards each other and they were trying to protect you. Because to me personally, I don't know how you can feel loved if you don't feel safe. Like I think you have to feel safe, emotionally safe, physically safe. Like if you're afraid of your partner emotionally, physically, how can you really feel loved?
Again, when they were feeling positive and benevolent and optimistic towards each other and they were trying to protect you. Because to me personally, I don't know how you can feel loved if you don't feel safe. Like I think you have to feel safe, emotionally safe, physically safe. Like if you're afraid of your partner emotionally, physically, how can you really feel loved?
So to me, the prenup is an invitation to A, can we talk about hard things? Because I'll tell you right now, when somebody says to me, well, I would do a prenup, I know it would be – but, you know, that's just going to be a hard conversation. Don't get married. If you can't have hard conversations with a person, you have absolutely no business marrying them.
So to me, the prenup is an invitation to A, can we talk about hard things? Because I'll tell you right now, when somebody says to me, well, I would do a prenup, I know it would be – but, you know, that's just going to be a hard conversation. Don't get married. If you can't have hard conversations with a person, you have absolutely no business marrying them.
So to me, the prenup is an invitation to A, can we talk about hard things? Because I'll tell you right now, when somebody says to me, well, I would do a prenup, I know it would be – but, you know, that's just going to be a hard conversation. Don't get married. If you can't have hard conversations with a person, you have absolutely no business marrying them.
I mean, it's good for me as a future income stream. But I'm telling you, I don't think it's a good idea. Like, you're going to have to talk about hard things. You know, and you're going to have to have uncomfortable truths instead of comfortable lies to this person. You know, so I'm a big fan of early on in the process –
I mean, it's good for me as a future income stream. But I'm telling you, I don't think it's a good idea. Like, you're going to have to talk about hard things. You know, and you're going to have to have uncomfortable truths instead of comfortable lies to this person. You know, so I'm a big fan of early on in the process –
I mean, it's good for me as a future income stream. But I'm telling you, I don't think it's a good idea. Like, you're going to have to talk about hard things. You know, and you're going to have to have uncomfortable truths instead of comfortable lies to this person. You know, so I'm a big fan of early on in the process –
Having those conversations – and again, it doesn't all have to be like the – like when you talk about your will, that's a hard conversation. Like there's no upside to being dead, you know, like other than being off social media. Like there's no upside to it. So I understand why people are like it's really hard to think about like if I die and if both of us die, what do we do with the kids?
Having those conversations – and again, it doesn't all have to be like the – like when you talk about your will, that's a hard conversation. Like there's no upside to being dead, you know, like other than being off social media. Like there's no upside to it. So I understand why people are like it's really hard to think about like if I die and if both of us die, what do we do with the kids?
Having those conversations – and again, it doesn't all have to be like the – like when you talk about your will, that's a hard conversation. Like there's no upside to being dead, you know, like other than being off social media. Like there's no upside to it. So I understand why people are like it's really hard to think about like if I die and if both of us die, what do we do with the kids?
Like that's a hard conversation. But – look, if we break up, what would you need to feel safe? Like, would you, you know, there's a line from a Prince song, if I was your girlfriend, and it is, would you run to me if somebody hurt you, even if that somebody was me? And I think there's something really sweet about saying to someone like, hey, if I hurt you, like, how can I still have you feel safe?
Like that's a hard conversation. But – look, if we break up, what would you need to feel safe? Like, would you, you know, there's a line from a Prince song, if I was your girlfriend, and it is, would you run to me if somebody hurt you, even if that somebody was me? And I think there's something really sweet about saying to someone like, hey, if I hurt you, like, how can I still have you feel safe?
Like that's a hard conversation. But – look, if we break up, what would you need to feel safe? Like, would you, you know, there's a line from a Prince song, if I was your girlfriend, and it is, would you run to me if somebody hurt you, even if that somebody was me? And I think there's something really sweet about saying to someone like, hey, if I hurt you, like, how can I still have you feel safe?
Like, how can I have you still feel loved? Like, I don't think that You know, when I meet someone and their exes are like, they just have painted them as a villain, like with no redeeming qualities whatsoever. And it's frequent. You know, it's frequent people do that. And to me, that says a lot about like the core values of both of these people.
Like, how can I have you still feel loved? Like, I don't think that You know, when I meet someone and their exes are like, they just have painted them as a villain, like with no redeeming qualities whatsoever. And it's frequent. You know, it's frequent people do that. And to me, that says a lot about like the core values of both of these people.
Like, how can I have you still feel loved? Like, I don't think that You know, when I meet someone and their exes are like, they just have painted them as a villain, like with no redeeming qualities whatsoever. And it's frequent. You know, it's frequent people do that. And to me, that says a lot about like the core values of both of these people.
You know, I think there's real value in saying to someone early on, like, hey, if I hurt you, What are you going to need from me? Like, what do we need to be made whole? How can we both feel safe in this relationship? That's what those discussions are about. Like, throwing the words contracts, throwing the words economy in there, I understand. Like, I think you're totally right.
You know, I think there's real value in saying to someone early on, like, hey, if I hurt you, What are you going to need from me? Like, what do we need to be made whole? How can we both feel safe in this relationship? That's what those discussions are about. Like, throwing the words contracts, throwing the words economy in there, I understand. Like, I think you're totally right.
You know, I think there's real value in saying to someone early on, like, hey, if I hurt you, What are you going to need from me? Like, what do we need to be made whole? How can we both feel safe in this relationship? That's what those discussions are about. Like, throwing the words contracts, throwing the words economy in there, I understand. Like, I think you're totally right.
There's something about those words. But I think reality can be beautiful. I don't think, like, I don't think you have to CGI everything for it to be perfect. I think it's perfect. I think it's already perfect. There's something very perfect about how imperfect and flawed and frightened we are. And I think there's something really beautiful about finding someone that you can be that with.
There's something about those words. But I think reality can be beautiful. I don't think, like, I don't think you have to CGI everything for it to be perfect. I think it's perfect. I think it's already perfect. There's something very perfect about how imperfect and flawed and frightened we are. And I think there's something really beautiful about finding someone that you can be that with.
There's something about those words. But I think reality can be beautiful. I don't think, like, I don't think you have to CGI everything for it to be perfect. I think it's perfect. I think it's already perfect. There's something very perfect about how imperfect and flawed and frightened we are. And I think there's something really beautiful about finding someone that you can be that with.
And I don't think I can learn everything I need to know about myself from myself. Like, I think I need someone there, ideally someone who really loves me and is cheering for me and sees my blind spots. And I think the conversation about a prenup, that's what that conversation should be.
And I don't think I can learn everything I need to know about myself from myself. Like, I think I need someone there, ideally someone who really loves me and is cheering for me and sees my blind spots. And I think the conversation about a prenup, that's what that conversation should be.
And I don't think I can learn everything I need to know about myself from myself. Like, I think I need someone there, ideally someone who really loves me and is cheering for me and sees my blind spots. And I think the conversation about a prenup, that's what that conversation should be.
Well, I'm telling you, and I got sidetracked as I tend to do, but... I've done probably hundreds if not thousands of prenups over 25 years. I think there are maybe five people that I did their divorce after they had a prenup. Really? Yeah. I think people need to hear that again. I think that, yeah. So I've done hundreds if not at least a thousand prenups in 25 years.
Well, I'm telling you, and I got sidetracked as I tend to do, but... I've done probably hundreds if not thousands of prenups over 25 years. I think there are maybe five people that I did their divorce after they had a prenup. Really? Yeah. I think people need to hear that again. I think that, yeah. So I've done hundreds if not at least a thousand prenups in 25 years.
Well, I'm telling you, and I got sidetracked as I tend to do, but... I've done probably hundreds if not thousands of prenups over 25 years. I think there are maybe five people that I did their divorce after they had a prenup. Really? Yeah. I think people need to hear that again. I think that, yeah. So I've done hundreds if not at least a thousand prenups in 25 years.
I probably do two or three prenups a week. So I do a lot of prenups. Most of my colleagues do a lot of prenups. And I've never asked my colleagues this. But, you know, usually when you do a prenup, you have a good relationship with the person by the time it's finished. It's a transaction people feel good about. It's a divorce.
I probably do two or three prenups a week. So I do a lot of prenups. Most of my colleagues do a lot of prenups. And I've never asked my colleagues this. But, you know, usually when you do a prenup, you have a good relationship with the person by the time it's finished. It's a transaction people feel good about. It's a divorce.
I probably do two or three prenups a week. So I do a lot of prenups. Most of my colleagues do a lot of prenups. And I've never asked my colleagues this. But, you know, usually when you do a prenup, you have a good relationship with the person by the time it's finished. It's a transaction people feel good about. It's a divorce.
Sometimes you finish a divorce and the person is like, oh, my God, I never want to see you again because you remind me of this really dark chapter. But prenups, it's usually a very friendly transaction. It's positive.
Sometimes you finish a divorce and the person is like, oh, my God, I never want to see you again because you remind me of this really dark chapter. But prenups, it's usually a very friendly transaction. It's positive.
Sometimes you finish a divorce and the person is like, oh, my God, I never want to see you again because you remind me of this really dark chapter. But prenups, it's usually a very friendly transaction. It's positive.
I think it's self-selecting. I think the kind of people who can have a conversation that you need to have in order to discuss and negotiate – and again, there's another term. I don't think it's the right term, negotiate a prenup. Negotiate gives the impression it's like you're buying a car, you know?
I think it's self-selecting. I think the kind of people who can have a conversation that you need to have in order to discuss and negotiate – and again, there's another term. I don't think it's the right term, negotiate a prenup. Negotiate gives the impression it's like you're buying a car, you know?
I think it's self-selecting. I think the kind of people who can have a conversation that you need to have in order to discuss and negotiate – and again, there's another term. I don't think it's the right term, negotiate a prenup. Negotiate gives the impression it's like you're buying a car, you know?
Like the kind of people who can have the conversations you need to have in order to have a prenuptial agreement I think are the kind of people that are going to be successfully married, period. Yeah. Like there's something about that. I'm not going to talk about a prenup because I don't want to talk about the possibility that anything could ever go wrong with this thing. It's perfect.
Like the kind of people who can have the conversations you need to have in order to have a prenuptial agreement I think are the kind of people that are going to be successfully married, period. Yeah. Like there's something about that. I'm not going to talk about a prenup because I don't want to talk about the possibility that anything could ever go wrong with this thing. It's perfect.
Like the kind of people who can have the conversations you need to have in order to have a prenuptial agreement I think are the kind of people that are going to be successfully married, period. Yeah. Like there's something about that. I'm not going to talk about a prenup because I don't want to talk about the possibility that anything could ever go wrong with this thing. It's perfect.
It's wonderful. It's cake. It's roses. It's nothing but romance and sex. And it's wonderful. Okay. You got no, listen, falling feels like flying for a little while, you know, and then you hit the ground and it is waiting for you. And if the first time you ever think about falling, What legal rights and obligations do I have is when you're in my office, like you're already screwed.
It's wonderful. It's cake. It's roses. It's nothing but romance and sex. And it's wonderful. Okay. You got no, listen, falling feels like flying for a little while, you know, and then you hit the ground and it is waiting for you. And if the first time you ever think about falling, What legal rights and obligations do I have is when you're in my office, like you're already screwed.
It's wonderful. It's cake. It's roses. It's nothing but romance and sex. And it's wonderful. Okay. You got no, listen, falling feels like flying for a little while, you know, and then you hit the ground and it is waiting for you. And if the first time you ever think about falling, What legal rights and obligations do I have is when you're in my office, like you're already screwed.
Yeah. And I mean, before I would get Before I would get canceled in the comments for being misandrist or misogynist, I always try to say that the things I'm observing are a function of having divorced thousands of people, men and women. Like for 25 years, I've done nothing but divorce law on a full-time basis. And I mean it on a truly full-time basis.
Yeah. And I mean, before I would get Before I would get canceled in the comments for being misandrist or misogynist, I always try to say that the things I'm observing are a function of having divorced thousands of people, men and women. Like for 25 years, I've done nothing but divorce law on a full-time basis. And I mean it on a truly full-time basis.
Yeah. And I mean, before I would get Before I would get canceled in the comments for being misandrist or misogynist, I always try to say that the things I'm observing are a function of having divorced thousands of people, men and women. Like for 25 years, I've done nothing but divorce law on a full-time basis. And I mean it on a truly full-time basis.
You're already screwed. You did nothing to prepare emotionally, financially, you know, nothing. So there's something about the imagination, right? That people, if you're just the kind of person who's like, I don't even want to talk. I actually met, they'll remain nameless, but it was a neighbor.
You're already screwed. You did nothing to prepare emotionally, financially, you know, nothing. So there's something about the imagination, right? That people, if you're just the kind of person who's like, I don't even want to talk. I actually met, they'll remain nameless, but it was a neighbor.
You're already screwed. You did nothing to prepare emotionally, financially, you know, nothing. So there's something about the imagination, right? That people, if you're just the kind of person who's like, I don't even want to talk. I actually met, they'll remain nameless, but it was a neighbor.
And I tried to – every once in a while, I get it in my head that I'm going to, like, try to be a more social person. So I'm like, oh, I should, like, invite the neighbor over for a drink, you know, a couple. And they don't live near me anymore, so I can get away with it now. But I invited these people over for a drink, and they came over, lovely people.
And I tried to – every once in a while, I get it in my head that I'm going to, like, try to be a more social person. So I'm like, oh, I should, like, invite the neighbor over for a drink, you know, a couple. And they don't live near me anymore, so I can get away with it now. But I invited these people over for a drink, and they came over, lovely people.
And I tried to – every once in a while, I get it in my head that I'm going to, like, try to be a more social person. So I'm like, oh, I should, like, invite the neighbor over for a drink, you know, a couple. And they don't live near me anymore, so I can get away with it now. But I invited these people over for a drink, and they came over, lovely people.
And I was like,
And I was like,
And I was like,
And I thought to myself, if only it was that easy, you know, by the way, got divorced like three years later. Really? Oh yeah.
And I thought to myself, if only it was that easy, you know, by the way, got divorced like three years later. Really? Oh yeah.
And I thought to myself, if only it was that easy, you know, by the way, got divorced like three years later. Really? Oh yeah.
And like knock down, drag out, brutal. Both of them tried to call me and hire me, you know, and I will not represent people that I know in any capacity. And I just remember thinking like that, that is such a, what a delusion, like that I'm never going to say the word, like, what are you, my great grandmother? Like you have to say cancer. Like, this?
And like knock down, drag out, brutal. Both of them tried to call me and hire me, you know, and I will not represent people that I know in any capacity. And I just remember thinking like that, that is such a, what a delusion, like that I'm never going to say the word, like, what are you, my great grandmother? Like you have to say cancer. Like, this?
And like knock down, drag out, brutal. Both of them tried to call me and hire me, you know, and I will not represent people that I know in any capacity. And I just remember thinking like that, that is such a, what a delusion, like that I'm never going to say the word, like, what are you, my great grandmother? Like you have to say cancer. Like, this?
Because if you say cancer at like a speaking volume, suddenly like tumors will develop. Like, are you that superstitious? Like, do you believe, you know, do you believe in Chewbacca too? Like, that's crazy. I mean, superstition is a form of paranoia.
Because if you say cancer at like a speaking volume, suddenly like tumors will develop. Like, are you that superstitious? Like, do you believe, you know, do you believe in Chewbacca too? Like, that's crazy. I mean, superstition is a form of paranoia.
Because if you say cancer at like a speaking volume, suddenly like tumors will develop. Like, are you that superstitious? Like, do you believe, you know, do you believe in Chewbacca too? Like, that's crazy. I mean, superstition is a form of paranoia.
Of course. Yeah. But I think it's, you know, I say all the time that I think most of our attitudes about marriage have been just handed down. Like, it's just, this is something that, like, marriage, you could be the most, like, modern Bella Abzug feminist person, and a lot of women are like, oh, yeah, I still want my dad to walk me down the aisle and give me away. Give you away? Like seriously?
Of course. Yeah. But I think it's, you know, I say all the time that I think most of our attitudes about marriage have been just handed down. Like, it's just, this is something that, like, marriage, you could be the most, like, modern Bella Abzug feminist person, and a lot of women are like, oh, yeah, I still want my dad to walk me down the aisle and give me away. Give you away? Like seriously?
Of course. Yeah. But I think it's, you know, I say all the time that I think most of our attitudes about marriage have been just handed down. Like, it's just, this is something that, like, marriage, you could be the most, like, modern Bella Abzug feminist person, and a lot of women are like, oh, yeah, I still want my dad to walk me down the aisle and give me away. Give you away? Like seriously?
Like you're a C-suite executive at a software company and he's going to trade you for what, goats? Like this is going to be because you are your father's property and now you will be the property and he will give you away to your husband and you'll now be his property. That's where that tradition comes from, gang.
Like you're a C-suite executive at a software company and he's going to trade you for what, goats? Like this is going to be because you are your father's property and now you will be the property and he will give you away to your husband and you'll now be his property. That's where that tradition comes from, gang.
Like you're a C-suite executive at a software company and he's going to trade you for what, goats? Like this is going to be because you are your father's property and now you will be the property and he will give you away to your husband and you'll now be his property. That's where that tradition comes from, gang.
100%.
100%.
100%.
I've had a few that hyphenate. That's a new thing. Oh, evolutionary biologists do that.
I've had a few that hyphenate. That's a new thing. Oh, evolutionary biologists do that.
I've had a few that hyphenate. That's a new thing. Oh, evolutionary biologists do that.
Most give the kids the husband's name. And again, I don't know if that's a male thing that like men are like, that's my kid. They're going to have my name. I really don't know. But yeah, there's a lot of the feminism gets thrown out the window.
Most give the kids the husband's name. And again, I don't know if that's a male thing that like men are like, that's my kid. They're going to have my name. I really don't know. But yeah, there's a lot of the feminism gets thrown out the window.
Most give the kids the husband's name. And again, I don't know if that's a male thing that like men are like, that's my kid. They're going to have my name. I really don't know. But yeah, there's a lot of the feminism gets thrown out the window.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It eliminates a certain level of confusion because at school, like, to say, you know, like, this is my name, the kid's name is different. So that piece I get, I absolutely get, but I, I also, and by the way, I have clients cause you don't have to change your name back, but you have the right to. And I have male clients who like want their name back.
It eliminates a certain level of confusion because at school, like, to say, you know, like, this is my name, the kid's name is different. So that piece I get, I absolutely get, but I, I also, and by the way, I have clients cause you don't have to change your name back, but you have the right to. And I have male clients who like want their name back.
It eliminates a certain level of confusion because at school, like, to say, you know, like, this is my name, the kid's name is different. So that piece I get, I absolutely get, but I, I also, and by the way, I have clients cause you don't have to change your name back, but you have the right to. And I have male clients who like want their name back.
Like I want her to no longer be allowed to use that name. And I have to explain to them, you're,
Like I want her to no longer be allowed to use that name. And I have to explain to them, you're,
Like I want her to no longer be allowed to use that name. And I have to explain to them, you're,
You can't force her to not have your name. He's like, well, that's my name. And I'm like, you understand I can change my – as long as you're not doing it for the intent of defrauding creditors, anyone can – I can change my name to Andrew Huberman tomorrow if I want to. Yeah. As long as I'm not doing it to defraud my creditors.
You can't force her to not have your name. He's like, well, that's my name. And I'm like, you understand I can change my – as long as you're not doing it for the intent of defrauding creditors, anyone can – I can change my name to Andrew Huberman tomorrow if I want to. Yeah. As long as I'm not doing it to defraud my creditors.
You can't force her to not have your name. He's like, well, that's my name. And I'm like, you understand I can change my – as long as you're not doing it for the intent of defrauding creditors, anyone can – I can change my name to Andrew Huberman tomorrow if I want to. Yeah. As long as I'm not doing it to defraud my creditors.
So I wake up in the morning thinking about this stuff. I go to bed thinking about this stuff. I work six, seven days a week. That's why I'm divorced. I really, really love the work. And so all the things I'm saying are really just my observations. So, you know, in response to that question, I think the world relates to divorced men and divorced women differently.
So I wake up in the morning thinking about this stuff. I go to bed thinking about this stuff. I work six, seven days a week. That's why I'm divorced. I really, really love the work. And so all the things I'm saying are really just my observations. So, you know, in response to that question, I think the world relates to divorced men and divorced women differently.
So I wake up in the morning thinking about this stuff. I go to bed thinking about this stuff. I work six, seven days a week. That's why I'm divorced. I really, really love the work. And so all the things I'm saying are really just my observations. So, you know, in response to that question, I think the world relates to divorced men and divorced women differently.
It's full-time fun. I can't do that. I can't bench that much either.
It's full-time fun. I can't do that. I can't bench that much either.
It's full-time fun. I can't do that. I can't bench that much either.
Yeah. They want her prohibited from having her name. And even though the kids have that name. But again, that's that anger thing. Like that's just a pure expression of anger. And I get it. You know, a lot of what I do is sort of helping people get to the core of like what are they really upset about. And that's a lot of what my job is. Like my undergraduate degree was in psychology, my master's.
Yeah. They want her prohibited from having her name. And even though the kids have that name. But again, that's that anger thing. Like that's just a pure expression of anger. And I get it. You know, a lot of what I do is sort of helping people get to the core of like what are they really upset about. And that's a lot of what my job is. Like my undergraduate degree was in psychology, my master's.
Yeah. They want her prohibited from having her name. And even though the kids have that name. But again, that's that anger thing. Like that's just a pure expression of anger. And I get it. You know, a lot of what I do is sort of helping people get to the core of like what are they really upset about. And that's a lot of what my job is. Like my undergraduate degree was in psychology, my master's.
I was in cultural anthropology and specifically in the study of death and dying. And then my law degree, I wanted to be a divorce lawyer as soon as I started law school. And I think I used the psych degree as much as I used the law degree because it's so much of what I do is just dealing with people when they're in this very heightened emotional state. Like I'm a fan of faith.
I was in cultural anthropology and specifically in the study of death and dying. And then my law degree, I wanted to be a divorce lawyer as soon as I started law school. And I think I used the psych degree as much as I used the law degree because it's so much of what I do is just dealing with people when they're in this very heightened emotional state. Like I'm a fan of faith.
I was in cultural anthropology and specifically in the study of death and dying. And then my law degree, I wanted to be a divorce lawyer as soon as I started law school. And I think I used the psych degree as much as I used the law degree because it's so much of what I do is just dealing with people when they're in this very heightened emotional state. Like I'm a fan of faith.
But just not blind faith. Like, I'm a fan of fairy tales. If the fairy tales inspire something in you, that's incredible. Like, if you say to me, you know, Jim, I love Star Wars. Like, the struggle of the Jedi against the Empire, like, it inspires me to want to be a disciplined person and to fight for good and to, you know, not be afraid of evil and to know— That's a beautiful story.
But just not blind faith. Like, I'm a fan of fairy tales. If the fairy tales inspire something in you, that's incredible. Like, if you say to me, you know, Jim, I love Star Wars. Like, the struggle of the Jedi against the Empire, like, it inspires me to want to be a disciplined person and to fight for good and to, you know, not be afraid of evil and to know— That's a beautiful story.
But just not blind faith. Like, I'm a fan of fairy tales. If the fairy tales inspire something in you, that's incredible. Like, if you say to me, you know, Jim, I love Star Wars. Like, the struggle of the Jedi against the Empire, like, it inspires me to want to be a disciplined person and to fight for good and to, you know, not be afraid of evil and to know— That's a beautiful story.
56. Yeah, it changes every year, but 56 is the divorce rate currently, okay? So 56% of marriages end in divorce. Now,
56. Yeah, it changes every year, but 56 is the divorce rate currently, okay? So 56% of marriages end in divorce. Now,
56. Yeah, it changes every year, but 56 is the divorce rate currently, okay? So 56% of marriages end in divorce. Now,
Every country, the statistics are different. There are, the United States does not have, you can actually look this up online. There's a great, there's like a running tally that's kept. But the highest divorce rates are in, I believe Italy is currently winning. Ireland was at the bottom because basically divorce was not possible in Ireland for an extended period of time.
Every country, the statistics are different. There are, the United States does not have, you can actually look this up online. There's a great, there's like a running tally that's kept. But the highest divorce rates are in, I believe Italy is currently winning. Ireland was at the bottom because basically divorce was not possible in Ireland for an extended period of time.
Every country, the statistics are different. There are, the United States does not have, you can actually look this up online. There's a great, there's like a running tally that's kept. But the highest divorce rates are in, I believe Italy is currently winning. Ireland was at the bottom because basically divorce was not possible in Ireland for an extended period of time.
Countries that have a very strong underlying religious narrative like Sharia law and things like that obviously have a very low divorce rate. But it varies in terms of – but countries that are –
Countries that have a very strong underlying religious narrative like Sharia law and things like that obviously have a very low divorce rate. But it varies in terms of – but countries that are –
Countries that have a very strong underlying religious narrative like Sharia law and things like that obviously have a very low divorce rate. But it varies in terms of – but countries that are –
I don't want to say, you know, like very modern, you know, where there's been a proliferation of social media, where there is a open information environment so people can compare themselves to other people constantly. Not North Korea. Not North Korea. Great example. Yes. That there is a sense of – because actually even North Korea like has an underlying religious narrative.
I don't want to say, you know, like very modern, you know, where there's been a proliferation of social media, where there is a open information environment so people can compare themselves to other people constantly. Not North Korea. Not North Korea. Great example. Yes. That there is a sense of – because actually even North Korea like has an underlying religious narrative.
I don't want to say, you know, like very modern, you know, where there's been a proliferation of social media, where there is a open information environment so people can compare themselves to other people constantly. Not North Korea. Not North Korea. Great example. Yes. That there is a sense of – because actually even North Korea like has an underlying religious narrative.
It's just that they've decided that they're – or they've been told their leader is a god, you know. So I think when you don't have – a core foundational religious narrative that prohibits divorce as part of its structure, then you're left to people's desires to some degree and the cultural foundations of it and tradition, right?
It's just that they've decided that they're – or they've been told their leader is a god, you know. So I think when you don't have – a core foundational religious narrative that prohibits divorce as part of its structure, then you're left to people's desires to some degree and the cultural foundations of it and tradition, right?
It's just that they've decided that they're – or they've been told their leader is a god, you know. So I think when you don't have – a core foundational religious narrative that prohibits divorce as part of its structure, then you're left to people's desires to some degree and the cultural foundations of it and tradition, right?
And tradition, for many, many years, tradition was you stay married even if you're unhappy. And then tradition in the 1970s and 1980s started turning into your happiness is more important than the institution of marriage. So if you're unhappy, you might need to leave your marriage and get divorced. And that's when the divorce rate started to spike, right?
And tradition, for many, many years, tradition was you stay married even if you're unhappy. And then tradition in the 1970s and 1980s started turning into your happiness is more important than the institution of marriage. So if you're unhappy, you might need to leave your marriage and get divorced. And that's when the divorce rate started to spike, right?
And tradition, for many, many years, tradition was you stay married even if you're unhappy. And then tradition in the 1970s and 1980s started turning into your happiness is more important than the institution of marriage. So if you're unhappy, you might need to leave your marriage and get divorced. And that's when the divorce rate started to spike, right?
So – and I think there's some value to that. Like I – you know, tradition is in some ways like the wisdom of the people before us and they saw things we might not see. And to some degree, tradition is peer pressure exerted by dead people.
So – and I think there's some value to that. Like I – you know, tradition is in some ways like the wisdom of the people before us and they saw things we might not see. And to some degree, tradition is peer pressure exerted by dead people.
So – and I think there's some value to that. Like I – you know, tradition is in some ways like the wisdom of the people before us and they saw things we might not see. And to some degree, tradition is peer pressure exerted by dead people.
So I think our fascination with marriage as this I found my soulmate and now we're not even going to think about the possibility of us ending even though fully 56% of the time the thing is going to end. Like that's the part I can't wrap my head around is – and again, look at the numbers there. Like let's assume conservatively. that another 10% stay together for the kids?
So I think our fascination with marriage as this I found my soulmate and now we're not even going to think about the possibility of us ending even though fully 56% of the time the thing is going to end. Like that's the part I can't wrap my head around is – and again, look at the numbers there. Like let's assume conservatively. that another 10% stay together for the kids?
So I think our fascination with marriage as this I found my soulmate and now we're not even going to think about the possibility of us ending even though fully 56% of the time the thing is going to end. Like that's the part I can't wrap my head around is – and again, look at the numbers there. Like let's assume conservatively. that another 10% stay together for the kids?
And I think people's self-conception, right, is very different. So I often tell my male clients when we're dealing with, you know, a custody case, for example, which is arguments over when a child's going to live with whom and when they're going to spend time with whom.
And I think people's self-conception, right, is very different. So I often tell my male clients when we're dealing with, you know, a custody case, for example, which is arguments over when a child's going to live with whom and when they're going to spend time with whom.
And I think people's self-conception, right, is very different. So I often tell my male clients when we're dealing with, you know, a custody case, for example, which is arguments over when a child's going to live with whom and when they're going to spend time with whom.
And these are first marriages? First marriages, the statistics for each subsequent marriage, the divorce rate gets much higher. So like by the time second marriage is higher than first marriage, third marriage is much higher. Interesting.
And these are first marriages? First marriages, the statistics for each subsequent marriage, the divorce rate gets much higher. So like by the time second marriage is higher than first marriage, third marriage is much higher. Interesting.
And these are first marriages? First marriages, the statistics for each subsequent marriage, the divorce rate gets much higher. So like by the time second marriage is higher than first marriage, third marriage is much higher. Interesting.
I know a lot of very happy second married people.
I know a lot of very happy second married people.
I know a lot of very happy second married people.
Yes. And I think there's value to that because I do think as a divorced person,
Yes. And I think there's value to that because I do think as a divorced person,
Yes. And I think there's value to that because I do think as a divorced person,
um you learn a lot about yourself through the process of divorce you learn a lot about what you don't want to do again in a relationship and what didn't work for you so i don't do anything perfectly the first time i do it so i think that there's value in in sort of giving something a try like you don't learn how to swim by reading books about swimming you learn how to swim in the pool so that's why i'm a like i'm a fan of marriage even though the the divorce rate is very high
um you learn a lot about yourself through the process of divorce you learn a lot about what you don't want to do again in a relationship and what didn't work for you so i don't do anything perfectly the first time i do it so i think that there's value in in sort of giving something a try like you don't learn how to swim by reading books about swimming you learn how to swim in the pool so that's why i'm a like i'm a fan of marriage even though the the divorce rate is very high
um you learn a lot about yourself through the process of divorce you learn a lot about what you don't want to do again in a relationship and what didn't work for you so i don't do anything perfectly the first time i do it so i think that there's value in in sort of giving something a try like you don't learn how to swim by reading books about swimming you learn how to swim in the pool so that's why i'm a like i'm a fan of marriage even though the the divorce rate is very high
It's clearly a very risky technology. One could argue it's a reckless thing to do. I mean the legal definition of negligence is a failure to perceive a substantial and unjustifiable risk of serious harm. Recklessness legally is a conscious disregard for a substantial and unjustifiable risk of serious harm. So if you know something ends in heartbreak and –
It's clearly a very risky technology. One could argue it's a reckless thing to do. I mean the legal definition of negligence is a failure to perceive a substantial and unjustifiable risk of serious harm. Recklessness legally is a conscious disregard for a substantial and unjustifiable risk of serious harm. So if you know something ends in heartbreak and –
It's clearly a very risky technology. One could argue it's a reckless thing to do. I mean the legal definition of negligence is a failure to perceive a substantial and unjustifiable risk of serious harm. Recklessness legally is a conscious disregard for a substantial and unjustifiable risk of serious harm. So if you know something ends in heartbreak and –
division of assets and fighting that requires attorneys 56% of the time, and you don't make any plan for that in advance, I would argue that's reckless. You're consciously disregarding a substantial risk of harm, period.
division of assets and fighting that requires attorneys 56% of the time, and you don't make any plan for that in advance, I would argue that's reckless. You're consciously disregarding a substantial risk of harm, period.
division of assets and fighting that requires attorneys 56% of the time, and you don't make any plan for that in advance, I would argue that's reckless. You're consciously disregarding a substantial risk of harm, period.
I don't. I don't know that delineation. I mean, I know that these statistics are fairly closely tracked. So you can find them out online pretty easily because they're tracked by the government. Every time we do a divorce, we have to file what's called a certificate of dissolution of marriage.
I don't. I don't know that delineation. I mean, I know that these statistics are fairly closely tracked. So you can find them out online pretty easily because they're tracked by the government. Every time we do a divorce, we have to file what's called a certificate of dissolution of marriage.
I don't. I don't know that delineation. I mean, I know that these statistics are fairly closely tracked. So you can find them out online pretty easily because they're tracked by the government. Every time we do a divorce, we have to file what's called a certificate of dissolution of marriage.
And there was this concept called the maternal presumption, which was around legally for years, or something called the tender years doctrine. It's called different things in different states. But it was around until probably the 1980s, and that was that a child was assumed to stay in the custody of the mother unless you could prove she was an unfit mother.
And there was this concept called the maternal presumption, which was around legally for years, or something called the tender years doctrine. It's called different things in different states. But it was around until probably the 1980s, and that was that a child was assumed to stay in the custody of the mother unless you could prove she was an unfit mother.
And there was this concept called the maternal presumption, which was around legally for years, or something called the tender years doctrine. It's called different things in different states. But it was around until probably the 1980s, and that was that a child was assumed to stay in the custody of the mother unless you could prove she was an unfit mother.
And that certificate includes the grade level, the highest grade level each person completed, whether there are children, how many children, the ages of the children. And the whole purpose of that document is to compile evidence. demographic information. So the government for many, many years has been monitoring this and looking at, you know, okay, what are those numbers?
And that certificate includes the grade level, the highest grade level each person completed, whether there are children, how many children, the ages of the children. And the whole purpose of that document is to compile evidence. demographic information. So the government for many, many years has been monitoring this and looking at, you know, okay, what are those numbers?
And that certificate includes the grade level, the highest grade level each person completed, whether there are children, how many children, the ages of the children. And the whole purpose of that document is to compile evidence. demographic information. So the government for many, many years has been monitoring this and looking at, you know, okay, what are those numbers?
Those numbers are not well publicized. I think partly because the wedding industrial complex does not want people getting involved in that conversation. Like you don't want people to really look at the truth of things because it takes away from the fantasy of things. But see, again, I think that's a framing issue because to me,
Those numbers are not well publicized. I think partly because the wedding industrial complex does not want people getting involved in that conversation. Like you don't want people to really look at the truth of things because it takes away from the fantasy of things. But see, again, I think that's a framing issue because to me,
Those numbers are not well publicized. I think partly because the wedding industrial complex does not want people getting involved in that conversation. Like you don't want people to really look at the truth of things because it takes away from the fantasy of things. But see, again, I think that's a framing issue because to me,
I think, you know, the stars are still beautiful even if you know astronomy. Like, I think, if anything, I actually think, and maybe this is just the way that I look at things, the fact that love is loaned and not permanently gifted. makes it more beautiful. Like the fact that I'm going to die for sure makes my life more beautiful. There's a finite number of sunsets I'm going to see.
I think, you know, the stars are still beautiful even if you know astronomy. Like, I think, if anything, I actually think, and maybe this is just the way that I look at things, the fact that love is loaned and not permanently gifted. makes it more beautiful. Like the fact that I'm going to die for sure makes my life more beautiful. There's a finite number of sunsets I'm going to see.
I think, you know, the stars are still beautiful even if you know astronomy. Like, I think, if anything, I actually think, and maybe this is just the way that I look at things, the fact that love is loaned and not permanently gifted. makes it more beautiful. Like the fact that I'm going to die for sure makes my life more beautiful. There's a finite number of sunsets I'm going to see.
There's a number. I don't know it yet. It might be five. It might be 500. But there's a number, right? And so when you're with someone, that marriage is going to end. Every marriage ends. It ends in death. or in divorce. It's one of the only things in the world that you go, I hope this ends in death.
There's a number. I don't know it yet. It might be five. It might be 500. But there's a number, right? And so when you're with someone, that marriage is going to end. Every marriage ends. It ends in death. or in divorce. It's one of the only things in the world that you go, I hope this ends in death.
There's a number. I don't know it yet. It might be five. It might be 500. But there's a number, right? And so when you're with someone, that marriage is going to end. Every marriage ends. It ends in death. or in divorce. It's one of the only things in the world that you go, I hope this ends in death.
Like if you said to someone at their wedding, like, man, I really hope your marriage ends in death, they would be like, what is wrong with that guy? But it's the truth because all marriages end, they end in death or divorce. I hope that yours ends in death. But I don't think that makes it less beautiful.
Like if you said to someone at their wedding, like, man, I really hope your marriage ends in death, they would be like, what is wrong with that guy? But it's the truth because all marriages end, they end in death or divorce. I hope that yours ends in death. But I don't think that makes it less beautiful.
Like if you said to someone at their wedding, like, man, I really hope your marriage ends in death, they would be like, what is wrong with that guy? But it's the truth because all marriages end, they end in death or divorce. I hope that yours ends in death. But I don't think that makes it less beautiful.
I think it makes it more beautiful that every day this person wakes up and decides to continue to be your spouse and to continue to be your partner and ideally your cheerleader and your fan, you know? And to me...
I think it makes it more beautiful that every day this person wakes up and decides to continue to be your spouse and to continue to be your partner and ideally your cheerleader and your fan, you know? And to me...
I think it makes it more beautiful that every day this person wakes up and decides to continue to be your spouse and to continue to be your partner and ideally your cheerleader and your fan, you know? And to me...
The fact that you don't own this person, that they have free will, they have autonomy and agency, and they choose you, not just on one day where you put on nice clothes and played good music and everybody got drunk, which is there's value in that and the memory of that and the photos of that and a reminder.
The fact that you don't own this person, that they have free will, they have autonomy and agency, and they choose you, not just on one day where you put on nice clothes and played good music and everybody got drunk, which is there's value in that and the memory of that and the photos of that and a reminder.
The fact that you don't own this person, that they have free will, they have autonomy and agency, and they choose you, not just on one day where you put on nice clothes and played good music and everybody got drunk, which is there's value in that and the memory of that and the photos of that and a reminder.
But like the fact that they every day get up and continue to choose to be with you like that. And if you said to me that the reason why they stay with you is they don't want to get divorced, That's a terrible reason. I was a smoker many, many years ago. People used to say, oh, you got to quit smoking. It's going to take 10 years off your life. And I'm like, right, the last 10.
But like the fact that they every day get up and continue to choose to be with you like that. And if you said to me that the reason why they stay with you is they don't want to get divorced, That's a terrible reason. I was a smoker many, many years ago. People used to say, oh, you got to quit smoking. It's going to take 10 years off your life. And I'm like, right, the last 10.
But like the fact that they every day get up and continue to choose to be with you like that. And if you said to me that the reason why they stay with you is they don't want to get divorced, That's a terrible reason. I was a smoker many, many years ago. People used to say, oh, you got to quit smoking. It's going to take 10 years off your life. And I'm like, right, the last 10.
The adult diaper wearing years, I don't want them anyway. You've met a 90-year-old? I don't want to be 90. It's fine. You're taking them off the tail end. Once I made the connection between I feel better, I taste food better, I can run further and faster, then it made sense to me because now there's something real and tangible in the present. There's something that has value.
The adult diaper wearing years, I don't want them anyway. You've met a 90-year-old? I don't want to be 90. It's fine. You're taking them off the tail end. Once I made the connection between I feel better, I taste food better, I can run further and faster, then it made sense to me because now there's something real and tangible in the present. There's something that has value.
The adult diaper wearing years, I don't want them anyway. You've met a 90-year-old? I don't want to be 90. It's fine. You're taking them off the tail end. Once I made the connection between I feel better, I taste food better, I can run further and faster, then it made sense to me because now there's something real and tangible in the present. There's something that has value.
So men were automatically second class when it came to being a parent. So it was automatic. It was the default. Now, of course, in the 80s, there was a different makeup of the workforce. There was a different gender roles, obviously, in terms of assignment of child care responsibilities. It was a different world to some degree. But that was eradicated in the 1980s.
So men were automatically second class when it came to being a parent. So it was automatic. It was the default. Now, of course, in the 80s, there was a different makeup of the workforce. There was a different gender roles, obviously, in terms of assignment of child care responsibilities. It was a different world to some degree. But that was eradicated in the 1980s.
So men were automatically second class when it came to being a parent. So it was automatic. It was the default. Now, of course, in the 80s, there was a different makeup of the workforce. There was a different gender roles, obviously, in terms of assignment of child care responsibilities. It was a different world to some degree. But that was eradicated in the 1980s.
So it's the same – I think it's the same thing with marriage. It's the same thing with prenups, which is let's not talk about what is this going to give us on the back end. Or what are we going to lose if we don't have this on the back end? Let's talk about what can this do for us in the present?
So it's the same – I think it's the same thing with marriage. It's the same thing with prenups, which is let's not talk about what is this going to give us on the back end. Or what are we going to lose if we don't have this on the back end? Let's talk about what can this do for us in the present?
So it's the same – I think it's the same thing with marriage. It's the same thing with prenups, which is let's not talk about what is this going to give us on the back end. Or what are we going to lose if we don't have this on the back end? Let's talk about what can this do for us in the present?
What can this conversation do for us in the present about understanding what we mean to each other and what we owe to each other?
What can this conversation do for us in the present about understanding what we mean to each other and what we owe to each other?
What can this conversation do for us in the present about understanding what we mean to each other and what we owe to each other?
And the bench even, the judges, have changed dramatically. When I started practicing 25 years ago, 90% of the judges I appeared in front of were old white men, period. Like that was it. It was old white men. And so I got in the habit of like have a short haircut, hide the tattoos, like look like you're coming out of the set of Inherit the Wind.
And the bench even, the judges, have changed dramatically. When I started practicing 25 years ago, 90% of the judges I appeared in front of were old white men, period. Like that was it. It was old white men. And so I got in the habit of like have a short haircut, hide the tattoos, like look like you're coming out of the set of Inherit the Wind.
And the bench even, the judges, have changed dramatically. When I started practicing 25 years ago, 90% of the judges I appeared in front of were old white men, period. Like that was it. It was old white men. And so I got in the habit of like have a short haircut, hide the tattoos, like look like you're coming out of the set of Inherit the Wind.
And imagination. I think imagination too. I think that – Marriage is about an imagined future, right? Like it's about we're going to build this thing. What's it look like? Like when you and your business partner sat down together, you had an imagination together. Like you weren't just like, okay, what are we going to do today? What are we building?
And imagination. I think imagination too. I think that – Marriage is about an imagined future, right? Like it's about we're going to build this thing. What's it look like? Like when you and your business partner sat down together, you had an imagination together. Like you weren't just like, okay, what are we going to do today? What are we building?
And imagination. I think imagination too. I think that – Marriage is about an imagined future, right? Like it's about we're going to build this thing. What's it look like? Like when you and your business partner sat down together, you had an imagination together. Like you weren't just like, okay, what are we going to do today? What are we building?
What do we want it to be, you know? And by the way, it never ends up being what you thought it would be. It turns into something completely different. There was no premonition. I mean, that's a very different scenario. But I don't think it's really even that different. I think that, you know, if you want to make God laugh, tell him your plans.
What do we want it to be, you know? And by the way, it never ends up being what you thought it would be. It turns into something completely different. There was no premonition. I mean, that's a very different scenario. But I don't think it's really even that different. I think that, you know, if you want to make God laugh, tell him your plans.
What do we want it to be, you know? And by the way, it never ends up being what you thought it would be. It turns into something completely different. There was no premonition. I mean, that's a very different scenario. But I don't think it's really even that different. I think that, you know, if you want to make God laugh, tell him your plans.
Like, I think the best thing is this vague idea of like, what do we want to do? I don't know. We want to do something exciting together. I don't know exactly what it's going to look like. I think this is the loose structure, but I don't know exactly what it is. Like, you know, you and I are friends. Like, we didn't talk about what we're going to talk about today. Right.
Like, I think the best thing is this vague idea of like, what do we want to do? I don't know. We want to do something exciting together. I don't know exactly what it's going to look like. I think this is the loose structure, but I don't know exactly what it is. Like, you know, you and I are friends. Like, we didn't talk about what we're going to talk about today. Right.
Like, I think the best thing is this vague idea of like, what do we want to do? I don't know. We want to do something exciting together. I don't know exactly what it's going to look like. I think this is the loose structure, but I don't know exactly what it is. Like, you know, you and I are friends. Like, we didn't talk about what we're going to talk about today. Right.
You know, we talked a dozen times, but we didn't go, well, Cecil, what should we talk about? Why? Because I think if we did, it wouldn't be authentic. Like, there's something so much better about, like, yeah, we want to have a good conversation. something of value, something we'll both enjoy and then maybe the people watching would enjoy, you know? So that's so much better.
You know, we talked a dozen times, but we didn't go, well, Cecil, what should we talk about? Why? Because I think if we did, it wouldn't be authentic. Like, there's something so much better about, like, yeah, we want to have a good conversation. something of value, something we'll both enjoy and then maybe the people watching would enjoy, you know? So that's so much better.
You know, we talked a dozen times, but we didn't go, well, Cecil, what should we talk about? Why? Because I think if we did, it wouldn't be authentic. Like, there's something so much better about, like, yeah, we want to have a good conversation. something of value, something we'll both enjoy and then maybe the people watching would enjoy, you know? So that's so much better.
And I think that's what you're doing with a prenup or with a marriage is you're imagining a future together. Okay, what does it look like?
And I think that's what you're doing with a prenup or with a marriage is you're imagining a future together. Okay, what does it look like?
And I think that's what you're doing with a prenup or with a marriage is you're imagining a future together. Okay, what does it look like?
Like look like you are what – because you've got a conservative old man as your judge. That is not the makeup of the bench anymore. The bench now is as diverse as the people that it serves. So one of the things, though, that I tell my male clients is even though that maternal presumption is gone, women fight harder for custody than men do. Really?
Like look like you are what – because you've got a conservative old man as your judge. That is not the makeup of the bench anymore. The bench now is as diverse as the people that it serves. So one of the things, though, that I tell my male clients is even though that maternal presumption is gone, women fight harder for custody than men do. Really?
Like look like you are what – because you've got a conservative old man as your judge. That is not the makeup of the bench anymore. The bench now is as diverse as the people that it serves. So one of the things, though, that I tell my male clients is even though that maternal presumption is gone, women fight harder for custody than men do. Really?
And also markers, like markers of... Look, you spend so much time, one of the reasons I consume so much of what you put out there is I like to know the markers before I have the problem. Like, I like to know, like, what are the things, what are the, you know, measure what matters, right? Like, I want to look at what has changed and then what can I do to adjust at that point?
And also markers, like markers of... Look, you spend so much time, one of the reasons I consume so much of what you put out there is I like to know the markers before I have the problem. Like, I like to know, like, what are the things, what are the, you know, measure what matters, right? Like, I want to look at what has changed and then what can I do to adjust at that point?
And also markers, like markers of... Look, you spend so much time, one of the reasons I consume so much of what you put out there is I like to know the markers before I have the problem. Like, I like to know, like, what are the things, what are the, you know, measure what matters, right? Like, I want to look at what has changed and then what can I do to adjust at that point?
And I think relationships, it's the same thing. Like by the time you're in my office, it's too late. Like it is so much harder to take a broken relationship and try to make it good again than it is to take a good relationship and keep it good and keep it strong. Like it's so much harder to gain a bunch of weight and then try to lose all of it than it is to maintain a healthy body mass.
And I think relationships, it's the same thing. Like by the time you're in my office, it's too late. Like it is so much harder to take a broken relationship and try to make it good again than it is to take a good relationship and keep it good and keep it strong. Like it's so much harder to gain a bunch of weight and then try to lose all of it than it is to maintain a healthy body mass.
And I think relationships, it's the same thing. Like by the time you're in my office, it's too late. Like it is so much harder to take a broken relationship and try to make it good again than it is to take a good relationship and keep it good and keep it strong. Like it's so much harder to gain a bunch of weight and then try to lose all of it than it is to maintain a healthy body mass.
Like it's just easier. So I think the same concept applies, which is be honest with yourself. About what it is we're moving towards and what it is we're building and how do we stay at this place? I don't like to just have – it's not just about the opt-outs. Like, OK, if we're split up, we're not going to have to hire lawyers and we're not going to have to go through the court system.
Like it's just easier. So I think the same concept applies, which is be honest with yourself. About what it is we're moving towards and what it is we're building and how do we stay at this place? I don't like to just have – it's not just about the opt-outs. Like, OK, if we're split up, we're not going to have to hire lawyers and we're not going to have to go through the court system.
Like it's just easier. So I think the same concept applies, which is be honest with yourself. About what it is we're moving towards and what it is we're building and how do we stay at this place? I don't like to just have – it's not just about the opt-outs. Like, OK, if we're split up, we're not going to have to hire lawyers and we're not going to have to go through the court system.
We're going to know what the rules are. There's value to that. Right. But there's also tremendous value to the conversation about what do we owe each other? What are we bringing to this?
We're going to know what the rules are. There's value to that. Right. But there's also tremendous value to the conversation about what do we owe each other? What are we bringing to this?
We're going to know what the rules are. There's value to that. Right. But there's also tremendous value to the conversation about what do we owe each other? What are we bringing to this?
Because that's where the economy piece of it comes in, which is, you know, and this is the part where it's so laden with gender stuff and it's laden that no one wants to talk about it or it doesn't feel safe to talk about or to talk about it honestly. Hence 56%. Yeah, I think so. I think we are poorer for that dishonesty because I think – I understand it's an uncomfortable truth.
Because that's where the economy piece of it comes in, which is, you know, and this is the part where it's so laden with gender stuff and it's laden that no one wants to talk about it or it doesn't feel safe to talk about or to talk about it honestly. Hence 56%. Yeah, I think so. I think we are poorer for that dishonesty because I think – I understand it's an uncomfortable truth.
Because that's where the economy piece of it comes in, which is, you know, and this is the part where it's so laden with gender stuff and it's laden that no one wants to talk about it or it doesn't feel safe to talk about or to talk about it honestly. Hence 56%. Yeah, I think so. I think we are poorer for that dishonesty because I think – I understand it's an uncomfortable truth.
I understand that it's difficult to say like, yeah, I don't know. There's something in me that wants it this way. Like I don't know what it is. I don't know if it's biology. I don't know if it's hormones. I don't know what – Like, this is important to me. Like, yeah, I want to have a fulfilling sexual relationship with you, but we want different things sexually. Like, I want frequency.
I understand that it's difficult to say like, yeah, I don't know. There's something in me that wants it this way. Like I don't know what it is. I don't know if it's biology. I don't know if it's hormones. I don't know what – Like, this is important to me. Like, yeah, I want to have a fulfilling sexual relationship with you, but we want different things sexually. Like, I want frequency.
I understand that it's difficult to say like, yeah, I don't know. There's something in me that wants it this way. Like I don't know what it is. I don't know if it's biology. I don't know if it's hormones. I don't know what – Like, this is important to me. Like, yeah, I want to have a fulfilling sexual relationship with you, but we want different things sexually. Like, I want frequency.
You want, you know, you want intensity. Like, whatever it might be. Like, the male sex drive, the female sex drive, like, they're not the same. Hormonally, they're not the same. So is it okay to have a conversation about, hey, if we're marrying each other, we have a sexual relationship usually. And so where it's at right now is good, I'd imagine. So how do we know when we're slipping off baseline?
You want, you know, you want intensity. Like, whatever it might be. Like, the male sex drive, the female sex drive, like, they're not the same. Hormonally, they're not the same. So is it okay to have a conversation about, hey, if we're marrying each other, we have a sexual relationship usually. And so where it's at right now is good, I'd imagine. So how do we know when we're slipping off baseline?
You want, you know, you want intensity. Like, whatever it might be. Like, the male sex drive, the female sex drive, like, they're not the same. Hormonally, they're not the same. So is it okay to have a conversation about, hey, if we're marrying each other, we have a sexual relationship usually. And so where it's at right now is good, I'd imagine. So how do we know when we're slipping off baseline?
And how do we know where – and by the way, how do we know when we slip off baseline it's not a sign of disaster, right? Like if I'm eight years old and my eyesight starts to get really bad, it's probably more alarming – Then if I'm 52 and now I need reading glasses, like these are more normal things, right?
And how do we know where – and by the way, how do we know when we slip off baseline it's not a sign of disaster, right? Like if I'm eight years old and my eyesight starts to get really bad, it's probably more alarming – Then if I'm 52 and now I need reading glasses, like these are more normal things, right?
And how do we know where – and by the way, how do we know when we slip off baseline it's not a sign of disaster, right? Like if I'm eight years old and my eyesight starts to get really bad, it's probably more alarming – Then if I'm 52 and now I need reading glasses, like these are more normal things, right?
So why not say like, hey, I'm not saying the amount of sex we're having when we're dating or engaged is the baseline. And if we ever slip off of that, it means that the relationship's in trouble.
So why not say like, hey, I'm not saying the amount of sex we're having when we're dating or engaged is the baseline. And if we ever slip off of that, it means that the relationship's in trouble.
So why not say like, hey, I'm not saying the amount of sex we're having when we're dating or engaged is the baseline. And if we ever slip off of that, it means that the relationship's in trouble.
They can. Money for sure. Sex, they can. And I think the overall conversation that should surround prenups and the reason why I think people who get prenups in my observation are less likely to get divorced – is at the front of this thing, you are having conversations about what do we owe each other? What do we expect from each other? What is meaningful to us about each other?
They can. Money for sure. Sex, they can. And I think the overall conversation that should surround prenups and the reason why I think people who get prenups in my observation are less likely to get divorced – is at the front of this thing, you are having conversations about what do we owe each other? What do we expect from each other? What is meaningful to us about each other?
They can. Money for sure. Sex, they can. And I think the overall conversation that should surround prenups and the reason why I think people who get prenups in my observation are less likely to get divorced – is at the front of this thing, you are having conversations about what do we owe each other? What do we expect from each other? What is meaningful to us about each other?
I'd love to say to you that it's because the maternal instinct and bond is so strong that women just care about their kids and they want custody. I don't really believe it's that. I think it's the following. If you and I just met in normal life, right, like we're just out at a bar and I sit up and you say, so Jim, tell me about yourself. And I say, well, I'm divorced. My kids live with their mom.
I'd love to say to you that it's because the maternal instinct and bond is so strong that women just care about their kids and they want custody. I don't really believe it's that. I think it's the following. If you and I just met in normal life, right, like we're just out at a bar and I sit up and you say, so Jim, tell me about yourself. And I say, well, I'm divorced. My kids live with their mom.
I'd love to say to you that it's because the maternal instinct and bond is so strong that women just care about their kids and they want custody. I don't really believe it's that. I think it's the following. If you and I just met in normal life, right, like we're just out at a bar and I sit up and you say, so Jim, tell me about yourself. And I say, well, I'm divorced. My kids live with their mom.
What value do you bring to my life? Like, why can we do that in any other relationship? Like if right now, you as my friend, Someone said, why do you like Andrew Huberman as a friend? I could run off a list of things. He's super interesting. He's super interested. He knows a lot of cool workout stuff. He's a lot of fun to hang out with. He eats the same way that I do, like kind of boring.
What value do you bring to my life? Like, why can we do that in any other relationship? Like if right now, you as my friend, Someone said, why do you like Andrew Huberman as a friend? I could run off a list of things. He's super interesting. He's super interested. He knows a lot of cool workout stuff. He's a lot of fun to hang out with. He eats the same way that I do, like kind of boring.
What value do you bring to my life? Like, why can we do that in any other relationship? Like if right now, you as my friend, Someone said, why do you like Andrew Huberman as a friend? I could run off a list of things. He's super interesting. He's super interested. He knows a lot of cool workout stuff. He's a lot of fun to hang out with. He eats the same way that I do, like kind of boring.
He doesn't drink just like me so we can hang out. I don't feel weird because I'm not drinking because he's not either. Like, there's a whole list of stuff I could say.
He doesn't drink just like me so we can hang out. I don't feel weird because I'm not drinking because he's not either. Like, there's a whole list of stuff I could say.
He doesn't drink just like me so we can hang out. I don't feel weird because I'm not drinking because he's not either. Like, there's a whole list of stuff I could say.
But, you know, we're interested. We're interesting. Our friendship makes sense, right? So... Why? And by the way, isn't it lovely to hear what someone likes about you? Like, I think it's one of the nicest things in the world when somebody says, you know what I like about you, Jim? I'm all ears. Tell me, you know? Or if someone who I love and trust and know, like, I know you're my friend.
But, you know, we're interested. We're interesting. Our friendship makes sense, right? So... Why? And by the way, isn't it lovely to hear what someone likes about you? Like, I think it's one of the nicest things in the world when somebody says, you know what I like about you, Jim? I'm all ears. Tell me, you know? Or if someone who I love and trust and know, like, I know you're my friend.
But, you know, we're interested. We're interesting. Our friendship makes sense, right? So... Why? And by the way, isn't it lovely to hear what someone likes about you? Like, I think it's one of the nicest things in the world when somebody says, you know what I like about you, Jim? I'm all ears. Tell me, you know? Or if someone who I love and trust and know, like, I know you're my friend.
So if you called me and you said, you know, Jim, can I give you some constructive feedback? Like something I think you're doing that's getting in your own way? Dude, I would be all ears. I would be all ears. I would want to hear that.
So if you called me and you said, you know, Jim, can I give you some constructive feedback? Like something I think you're doing that's getting in your own way? Dude, I would be all ears. I would be all ears. I would want to hear that.
So if you called me and you said, you know, Jim, can I give you some constructive feedback? Like something I think you're doing that's getting in your own way? Dude, I would be all ears. I would be all ears. I would want to hear that.
Yeah, it's turning client privilege. I can't bring it up. But yeah, I mean, I think there's something – that's an event in a couple's life, right? So why in this romantic context – Would you squander the opportunity to have that conversation? Here's what you bring to my life. Here's how you make me feel. Here's when I feel the most loved. Here's when I feel not as loved by you.
Yeah, it's turning client privilege. I can't bring it up. But yeah, I mean, I think there's something – that's an event in a couple's life, right? So why in this romantic context – Would you squander the opportunity to have that conversation? Here's what you bring to my life. Here's how you make me feel. Here's when I feel the most loved. Here's when I feel not as loved by you.
Yeah, it's turning client privilege. I can't bring it up. But yeah, I mean, I think there's something – that's an event in a couple's life, right? So why in this romantic context – Would you squander the opportunity to have that conversation? Here's what you bring to my life. Here's how you make me feel. Here's when I feel the most loved. Here's when I feel not as loved by you.
I mean, there is value to that.
I mean, there is value to that.
I mean, there is value to that.
No, because what's amazing about a prenup is a prenup is not filed anywhere. It's just you have one and you're safe. The lawyer has one and they're safe. It's a contract.
No, because what's amazing about a prenup is a prenup is not filed anywhere. It's just you have one and you're safe. The lawyer has one and they're safe. It's a contract.
No, because what's amazing about a prenup is a prenup is not filed anywhere. It's just you have one and you're safe. The lawyer has one and they're safe. It's a contract.
No, NDAs are fluid because NDAs are a relatively new construct and they haven't really been tested. Just like non-competes, there was a period of time where non-competes were like they were overly broad and they weren't worth the paper they were printed on. And then people tried to tailor them.
No, NDAs are fluid because NDAs are a relatively new construct and they haven't really been tested. Just like non-competes, there was a period of time where non-competes were like they were overly broad and they weren't worth the paper they were printed on. And then people tried to tailor them.
No, NDAs are fluid because NDAs are a relatively new construct and they haven't really been tested. Just like non-competes, there was a period of time where non-competes were like they were overly broad and they weren't worth the paper they were printed on. And then people tried to tailor them.
And now, you know, non-competes that are specific as to geography and duration, like, you know, the court system, the living law fails. figures out, okay, here's how we have to tweak it. Prenups, the same thing happened. There was a lot of prenups back in the day used to get tossed out.
And now, you know, non-competes that are specific as to geography and duration, like, you know, the court system, the living law fails. figures out, okay, here's how we have to tweak it. Prenups, the same thing happened. There was a lot of prenups back in the day used to get tossed out.
And now, you know, non-competes that are specific as to geography and duration, like, you know, the court system, the living law fails. figures out, okay, here's how we have to tweak it. Prenups, the same thing happened. There was a lot of prenups back in the day used to get tossed out.
But for the 25 years I've been practicing, trust me, I've had a couple of prenups I've tried to set aside and I've been unsuccessful and I'm a good lawyer, but it's very hard to set aside a properly drafted prenup, you know? And I think that that's a good thing because again, The framing needs to change, which is everyone has a prenup.
But for the 25 years I've been practicing, trust me, I've had a couple of prenups I've tried to set aside and I've been unsuccessful and I'm a good lawyer, but it's very hard to set aside a properly drafted prenup, you know? And I think that that's a good thing because again, The framing needs to change, which is everyone has a prenup.
But for the 25 years I've been practicing, trust me, I've had a couple of prenups I've tried to set aside and I've been unsuccessful and I'm a good lawyer, but it's very hard to set aside a properly drafted prenup, you know? And I think that that's a good thing because again, The framing needs to change, which is everyone has a prenup.
It's either written by the government and subject to change by the government without notice to you, and then you can't opt out of the new rule set, or it's one that you and your partner draft together.
It's either written by the government and subject to change by the government without notice to you, and then you can't opt out of the new rule set, or it's one that you and your partner draft together.
It's either written by the government and subject to change by the government without notice to you, and then you can't opt out of the new rule set, or it's one that you and your partner draft together.
I see them every other weekend and once a week for dinner. He would go, okay, cool. Jim's a divorced guy. You know, he's working. He does his thing. I'm a woman, and I say I have two kids. They live with their father. I see them every other weekend. You go, what is wrong with this one? Is she on substance use issues, mental health issues? Like why does he have custody of the kids?
I see them every other weekend and once a week for dinner. He would go, okay, cool. Jim's a divorced guy. You know, he's working. He does his thing. I'm a woman, and I say I have two kids. They live with their father. I see them every other weekend. You go, what is wrong with this one? Is she on substance use issues, mental health issues? Like why does he have custody of the kids?
I see them every other weekend and once a week for dinner. He would go, okay, cool. Jim's a divorced guy. You know, he's working. He does his thing. I'm a woman, and I say I have two kids. They live with their father. I see them every other weekend. You go, what is wrong with this one? Is she on substance use issues, mental health issues? Like why does he have custody of the kids?
You feel the vibe off of them.
You feel the vibe off of them.
You feel the vibe off of them.
Yeah, I think I've always said that the most dangerous lies are the lies we tell ourselves. And I say in my book that all marriage problems stem from two underlying problems. We don't know what we want, and we don't know how to express what we want, even if we know what we want. We don't know how to express it to our partner.
Yeah, I think I've always said that the most dangerous lies are the lies we tell ourselves. And I say in my book that all marriage problems stem from two underlying problems. We don't know what we want, and we don't know how to express what we want, even if we know what we want. We don't know how to express it to our partner.
Yeah, I think I've always said that the most dangerous lies are the lies we tell ourselves. And I say in my book that all marriage problems stem from two underlying problems. We don't know what we want, and we don't know how to express what we want, even if we know what we want. We don't know how to express it to our partner.
And I think those are two really different but deeply correlated problems. I think one of the great mistakes we make is I think we fall in love very fast in what we call love, right? I'm fuzzy on the whole love concept because a lot of what's described as love is like something that, you know, was designed in the 1950s to sell shampoo, right?
And I think those are two really different but deeply correlated problems. I think one of the great mistakes we make is I think we fall in love very fast in what we call love, right? I'm fuzzy on the whole love concept because a lot of what's described as love is like something that, you know, was designed in the 1950s to sell shampoo, right?
And I think those are two really different but deeply correlated problems. I think one of the great mistakes we make is I think we fall in love very fast in what we call love, right? I'm fuzzy on the whole love concept because a lot of what's described as love is like something that, you know, was designed in the 1950s to sell shampoo, right?
Like I don't – this idea of like you meet this one person and then that person, you're going to be your soulmate. Like whoever created the term soulmate, I owe them a tremendous amount of money.
Like I don't – this idea of like you meet this one person and then that person, you're going to be your soulmate. Like whoever created the term soulmate, I owe them a tremendous amount of money.
Like I don't – this idea of like you meet this one person and then that person, you're going to be your soulmate. Like whoever created the term soulmate, I owe them a tremendous amount of money.
Yeah, like my beshirt, my fate, right?
Yeah, like my beshirt, my fate, right?
Yeah, like my beshirt, my fate, right?
But even even if you were to say, OK, this is person has been selected by an omnipotent creator deity, that's at least more reasonable than saying I've met this one person and they are now going to be the best friend, best co-parent, best roommate, best travel partner, best sexual partner, best confidant, best financial partner. Wait, all of those? Like, they're going to check all of those?
But even even if you were to say, OK, this is person has been selected by an omnipotent creator deity, that's at least more reasonable than saying I've met this one person and they are now going to be the best friend, best co-parent, best roommate, best travel partner, best sexual partner, best confidant, best financial partner. Wait, all of those? Like, they're going to check all of those?
But even even if you were to say, OK, this is person has been selected by an omnipotent creator deity, that's at least more reasonable than saying I've met this one person and they are now going to be the best friend, best co-parent, best roommate, best travel partner, best sexual partner, best confidant, best financial partner. Wait, all of those? Like, they're going to check all of those?
And they happen to live three miles from you? Like, and go to the same coffee shop in a world of 8 billion people? Like, what are the odds? Like, I would definitely believe in God if that's the reality. But the truth is, I don't think it's like that. I think it's a combination of pheromones and it's a combination of dopamine. And look, like, I get it. Like, I get it. I get it.
And they happen to live three miles from you? Like, and go to the same coffee shop in a world of 8 billion people? Like, what are the odds? Like, I would definitely believe in God if that's the reality. But the truth is, I don't think it's like that. I think it's a combination of pheromones and it's a combination of dopamine. And look, like, I get it. Like, I get it. I get it.
And they happen to live three miles from you? Like, and go to the same coffee shop in a world of 8 billion people? Like, what are the odds? Like, I would definitely believe in God if that's the reality. But the truth is, I don't think it's like that. I think it's a combination of pheromones and it's a combination of dopamine. And look, like, I get it. Like, I get it. I get it.
But why do we have to look at it like that? Those early days of a relationship where you – look, we've both been in love. We've both been in a romantic relationship where just the person brushes up next to you or the scent of them hits you and it's like an electric shock through you. It's magic. It's just the greatest drug in the world. And you – but if that stayed –
But why do we have to look at it like that? Those early days of a relationship where you – look, we've both been in love. We've both been in a romantic relationship where just the person brushes up next to you or the scent of them hits you and it's like an electric shock through you. It's magic. It's just the greatest drug in the world. And you – but if that stayed –
But why do we have to look at it like that? Those early days of a relationship where you – look, we've both been in love. We've both been in a romantic relationship where just the person brushes up next to you or the scent of them hits you and it's like an electric shock through you. It's magic. It's just the greatest drug in the world. And you – but if that stayed –
Why doesn't she have custody of her kids? So there is an element – of how motherhood is perceived as an identity, even for a working woman, that it's like if you don't have your kids on a full-time or close to full-time basis, there's this perception. So that infuses, that changes the way that women are in custody litigation. That's a huge piece of it. On the other side of things...
Why doesn't she have custody of her kids? So there is an element – of how motherhood is perceived as an identity, even for a working woman, that it's like if you don't have your kids on a full-time or close to full-time basis, there's this perception. So that infuses, that changes the way that women are in custody litigation. That's a huge piece of it. On the other side of things...
Why doesn't she have custody of her kids? So there is an element – of how motherhood is perceived as an identity, even for a working woman, that it's like if you don't have your kids on a full-time or close to full-time basis, there's this perception. So that infuses, that changes the way that women are in custody litigation. That's a huge piece of it. On the other side of things...
forever, you would never get anything done. Like civilization would perish because we would all just want to sit there smelling someone's hair all day. Like we would just want to be around each other all day. And by the way, not just how we feel about them, how they make us feel about ourselves. Like why do you think affairs are so intoxicating?
forever, you would never get anything done. Like civilization would perish because we would all just want to sit there smelling someone's hair all day. Like we would just want to be around each other all day. And by the way, not just how we feel about them, how they make us feel about ourselves. Like why do you think affairs are so intoxicating?
forever, you would never get anything done. Like civilization would perish because we would all just want to sit there smelling someone's hair all day. Like we would just want to be around each other all day. And by the way, not just how we feel about them, how they make us feel about ourselves. Like why do you think affairs are so intoxicating?
Because you've been in this relationship with this person and they don't even see you anymore and you don't even see them anymore. And then you meet this other person and they're like, you're fascinating. You're brilliant. You're handsome. And all of a sudden you start to feel brilliant and handsome again. Why? Because you observed, right?
Because you've been in this relationship with this person and they don't even see you anymore and you don't even see them anymore. And then you meet this other person and they're like, you're fascinating. You're brilliant. You're handsome. And all of a sudden you start to feel brilliant and handsome again. Why? Because you observed, right?
Because you've been in this relationship with this person and they don't even see you anymore and you don't even see them anymore. And then you meet this other person and they're like, you're fascinating. You're brilliant. You're handsome. And all of a sudden you start to feel brilliant and handsome again. Why? Because you observed, right?
Like you're seeing yourself through the lens of this person's gaze.
Like you're seeing yourself through the lens of this person's gaze.
Like you're seeing yourself through the lens of this person's gaze.
Well, her book, Redefining Infidelity, like all of her writing, she and I were on a panel together some years ago. And I mean, I think she's a brilliant, brilliant mind. And she has an insight into the nature of infidelity and human relationships, romantic relationships. But again, she's saying the quiet part out loud. And again, I don't think she's not a romantic.
Well, her book, Redefining Infidelity, like all of her writing, she and I were on a panel together some years ago. And I mean, I think she's a brilliant, brilliant mind. And she has an insight into the nature of infidelity and human relationships, romantic relationships. But again, she's saying the quiet part out loud. And again, I don't think she's not a romantic.
Well, her book, Redefining Infidelity, like all of her writing, she and I were on a panel together some years ago. And I mean, I think she's a brilliant, brilliant mind. And she has an insight into the nature of infidelity and human relationships, romantic relationships. But again, she's saying the quiet part out loud. And again, I don't think she's not a romantic.
I don't think that she doesn't believe in love. Like when someone says to me, well, do you believe in love? It's like, do you believe in oxygen? Like it's all around me. Like love's all around me. It's everywhere.
I don't think that she doesn't believe in love. Like when someone says to me, well, do you believe in love? It's like, do you believe in oxygen? Like it's all around me. Like love's all around me. It's everywhere.
I don't think that she doesn't believe in love. Like when someone says to me, well, do you believe in love? It's like, do you believe in oxygen? Like it's all around me. Like love's all around me. It's everywhere.
Yes, because— With the same person. Yes, because I've seen it, just like you have. It's just—it's a rare and special thing. You know, one of the things I've said before, and I get pilloried for it every time I say it because people want to misinterpret it intentionally, is that marriage is like the lottery. You are probably not going to win.
Yes, because— With the same person. Yes, because I've seen it, just like you have. It's just—it's a rare and special thing. You know, one of the things I've said before, and I get pilloried for it every time I say it because people want to misinterpret it intentionally, is that marriage is like the lottery. You are probably not going to win.
Yes, because— With the same person. Yes, because I've seen it, just like you have. It's just—it's a rare and special thing. You know, one of the things I've said before, and I get pilloried for it every time I say it because people want to misinterpret it intentionally, is that marriage is like the lottery. You are probably not going to win.
But if you win, what you win is so good that you might as well buy a ticket. Like, give it a try. Like, give it a shot. Again, with a prenup, then your downside is controlled to some degree. But I am a fan. Now, people take that quote and go, oh, well, so you're saying that it's random? Like, you can't do anything to increase your chances of winning the lottery other than buying more tickets.
But if you win, what you win is so good that you might as well buy a ticket. Like, give it a try. Like, give it a shot. Again, with a prenup, then your downside is controlled to some degree. But I am a fan. Now, people take that quote and go, oh, well, so you're saying that it's random? Like, you can't do anything to increase your chances of winning the lottery other than buying more tickets.
But if you win, what you win is so good that you might as well buy a ticket. Like, give it a try. Like, give it a shot. Again, with a prenup, then your downside is controlled to some degree. But I am a fan. Now, people take that quote and go, oh, well, so you're saying that it's random? Like, you can't do anything to increase your chances of winning the lottery other than buying more tickets.
Like, marriage, it's a practice. It's work. And when people say to me, like, well, marriage is hard work. Marriage is hard. Like, I don't know what you're talking about. I don't know that love has to be hard work. Like there's so much that we put on love, romantic love, that just doesn't make sense as far as I'm concerned by observable experience.
Like, marriage, it's a practice. It's work. And when people say to me, like, well, marriage is hard work. Marriage is hard. Like, I don't know what you're talking about. I don't know that love has to be hard work. Like there's so much that we put on love, romantic love, that just doesn't make sense as far as I'm concerned by observable experience.
Like, marriage, it's a practice. It's work. And when people say to me, like, well, marriage is hard work. Marriage is hard. Like, I don't know what you're talking about. I don't know that love has to be hard work. Like there's so much that we put on love, romantic love, that just doesn't make sense as far as I'm concerned by observable experience.
If you watch people who are happily married, they're cheering for each other. They enjoy each other's company. But again, are they – Dealing with those early days intoxication to the point where if the other person starts speaking, they lose their train of thought. No, because they're building a life and a family and an ecosystem in the home together.
If you watch people who are happily married, they're cheering for each other. They enjoy each other's company. But again, are they – Dealing with those early days intoxication to the point where if the other person starts speaking, they lose their train of thought. No, because they're building a life and a family and an ecosystem in the home together.
If you watch people who are happily married, they're cheering for each other. They enjoy each other's company. But again, are they – Dealing with those early days intoxication to the point where if the other person starts speaking, they lose their train of thought. No, because they're building a life and a family and an ecosystem in the home together.
And, you know, they have to divide responsibilities. But those two things do not have to be incompatible with each other. But you cannot throw into that equation ignorance and willful blindness, right? to the reality of the impermanence of love and the fragility of love. Like, my career is about the fragility of love.
And, you know, they have to divide responsibilities. But those two things do not have to be incompatible with each other. But you cannot throw into that equation ignorance and willful blindness, right? to the reality of the impermanence of love and the fragility of love. Like, my career is about the fragility of love.
And, you know, they have to divide responsibilities. But those two things do not have to be incompatible with each other. But you cannot throw into that equation ignorance and willful blindness, right? to the reality of the impermanence of love and the fragility of love. Like, my career is about the fragility of love.
Why can't we talk about this fragile thing and treat it like you treat a fragile thing? Like, why not treat love like what it is? It's something that's so amazing, powerful, and beautiful that it sucks the reason right out of our heads. And all you want to do is be with this person and talk in and just what do you want to do tonight?
Why can't we talk about this fragile thing and treat it like you treat a fragile thing? Like, why not treat love like what it is? It's something that's so amazing, powerful, and beautiful that it sucks the reason right out of our heads. And all you want to do is be with this person and talk in and just what do you want to do tonight?
Why can't we talk about this fragile thing and treat it like you treat a fragile thing? Like, why not treat love like what it is? It's something that's so amazing, powerful, and beautiful that it sucks the reason right out of our heads. And all you want to do is be with this person and talk in and just what do you want to do tonight?
Do you want to go to the greatest concert in the greatest venue and sit in the front row or just sit with this person and like watch something on Netflix and eat some popcorn? Yep, I'll take that. I'll take that because it's the best thing.
Do you want to go to the greatest concert in the greatest venue and sit in the front row or just sit with this person and like watch something on Netflix and eat some popcorn? Yep, I'll take that. I'll take that because it's the best thing.
Do you want to go to the greatest concert in the greatest venue and sit in the front row or just sit with this person and like watch something on Netflix and eat some popcorn? Yep, I'll take that. I'll take that because it's the best thing.
You know, the gender stuff in divorce and in breakups is really interesting and complicated in the sense that, for example, if a man cheats on his wife, he's a piece of shit, can't keep it in his pants, he's a child, why couldn't he be honest? A woman cheats on her husband. She was driven into the arms of another man. She couldn't get, he wasn't meeting her needs.
You know, the gender stuff in divorce and in breakups is really interesting and complicated in the sense that, for example, if a man cheats on his wife, he's a piece of shit, can't keep it in his pants, he's a child, why couldn't he be honest? A woman cheats on her husband. She was driven into the arms of another man. She couldn't get, he wasn't meeting her needs.
You know, the gender stuff in divorce and in breakups is really interesting and complicated in the sense that, for example, if a man cheats on his wife, he's a piece of shit, can't keep it in his pants, he's a child, why couldn't he be honest? A woman cheats on her husband. She was driven into the arms of another man. She couldn't get, he wasn't meeting her needs.
I mean, there's so much... criticism from the outside world, so much self-criticism and comparison, that there's something about having someone who sees the beauty in you and is cheering for you, and that when you fall down, their response is, okay, you fell down. Like, people fall down. It's okay. Come on, get up. You got it. You got this, you know? Something about that to me is
I mean, there's so much... criticism from the outside world, so much self-criticism and comparison, that there's something about having someone who sees the beauty in you and is cheering for you, and that when you fall down, their response is, okay, you fell down. Like, people fall down. It's okay. Come on, get up. You got it. You got this, you know? Something about that to me is
I mean, there's so much... criticism from the outside world, so much self-criticism and comparison, that there's something about having someone who sees the beauty in you and is cheering for you, and that when you fall down, their response is, okay, you fell down. Like, people fall down. It's okay. Come on, get up. You got it. You got this, you know? Something about that to me is
is that's the best thing. Like that's, that's when I see successful married couples, they're not taking the piss out of each other. Like that old, all the tropes now of like, you know, like women just being like, oh yeah, he's just such an idiot. Like, you know, that it's like cute somehow to like talk crap about your husband or your wife.
is that's the best thing. Like that's, that's when I see successful married couples, they're not taking the piss out of each other. Like that old, all the tropes now of like, you know, like women just being like, oh yeah, he's just such an idiot. Like, you know, that it's like cute somehow to like talk crap about your husband or your wife.
is that's the best thing. Like that's, that's when I see successful married couples, they're not taking the piss out of each other. Like that old, all the tropes now of like, you know, like women just being like, oh yeah, he's just such an idiot. Like, you know, that it's like cute somehow to like talk crap about your husband or your wife.
Men as children and women as the most loathsome harpies ever to castrate a man. You know, like, oh, yeah, well, please, you know, she's this one. You know, there's nothing.
Men as children and women as the most loathsome harpies ever to castrate a man. You know, like, oh, yeah, well, please, you know, she's this one. You know, there's nothing.
Men as children and women as the most loathsome harpies ever to castrate a man. You know, like, oh, yeah, well, please, you know, she's this one. You know, there's nothing.
Yeah, and I guess for me, especially in this increasingly performative and curated age that we live in where, you know, we're watching on, you know, Instagram and all these other social media, we're watching everyone's greatest hits while we live our gag reel. And we're sort of comparing ourselves to like this curated version of other people's relationships and lives.
Yeah, and I guess for me, especially in this increasingly performative and curated age that we live in where, you know, we're watching on, you know, Instagram and all these other social media, we're watching everyone's greatest hits while we live our gag reel. And we're sort of comparing ourselves to like this curated version of other people's relationships and lives.
Yeah, and I guess for me, especially in this increasingly performative and curated age that we live in where, you know, we're watching on, you know, Instagram and all these other social media, we're watching everyone's greatest hits while we live our gag reel. And we're sort of comparing ourselves to like this curated version of other people's relationships and lives.
And so a lot of the time, we're just not feeling good about what we're doing or where we're at, right? Our bodies, you know, like our minds, our success, our accomplishments. Like we're looking at everybody else's curated greatest hits. And I think there's something really valuable about having another human being next to you who's not criticizing you.
And so a lot of the time, we're just not feeling good about what we're doing or where we're at, right? Our bodies, you know, like our minds, our success, our accomplishments. Like we're looking at everybody else's curated greatest hits. And I think there's something really valuable about having another human being next to you who's not criticizing you.
And so a lot of the time, we're just not feeling good about what we're doing or where we're at, right? Our bodies, you know, like our minds, our success, our accomplishments. Like we're looking at everybody else's curated greatest hits. And I think there's something really valuable about having another human being next to you who's not criticizing you.
Like even constructive criticism is criticism. Like there's something about having another person. I'm not saying, by the way, that part of being in a good relationship is not criticism, you know, or the ability to like give feedback to a person. But it's like I said earlier about our friendship.
Like even constructive criticism is criticism. Like there's something about having another person. I'm not saying, by the way, that part of being in a good relationship is not criticism, you know, or the ability to like give feedback to a person. But it's like I said earlier about our friendship.
Like even constructive criticism is criticism. Like there's something about having another person. I'm not saying, by the way, that part of being in a good relationship is not criticism, you know, or the ability to like give feedback to a person. But it's like I said earlier about our friendship.
Like if you know it's coming from a place of love, of like, hey, man, I know you're great and I feel like this is dampening your greatness or this is shining light in the wrong place. Like I think there's so much value in that. But again, it requires these two people to have, you know, a conversation early on, I think, about what do we expect? What do we feel towards each other?
Like if you know it's coming from a place of love, of like, hey, man, I know you're great and I feel like this is dampening your greatness or this is shining light in the wrong place. Like I think there's so much value in that. But again, it requires these two people to have, you know, a conversation early on, I think, about what do we expect? What do we feel towards each other?
Like if you know it's coming from a place of love, of like, hey, man, I know you're great and I feel like this is dampening your greatness or this is shining light in the wrong place. Like I think there's so much value in that. But again, it requires these two people to have, you know, a conversation early on, I think, about what do we expect? What do we feel towards each other?
And again, you know, to look at that as a – I mean marriage is a contract. Divorce is a different contract. A prenup is a contract. Like we're living in this world of contracts whether we want to admit it or not. So why not admit it? Say it out loud. It's not – I promise it is not going to take away the beauty and the romance of this thing. Like I've been a divorce lawyer 25 years.
And again, you know, to look at that as a – I mean marriage is a contract. Divorce is a different contract. A prenup is a contract. Like we're living in this world of contracts whether we want to admit it or not. So why not admit it? Say it out loud. It's not – I promise it is not going to take away the beauty and the romance of this thing. Like I've been a divorce lawyer 25 years.
And again, you know, to look at that as a – I mean marriage is a contract. Divorce is a different contract. A prenup is a contract. Like we're living in this world of contracts whether we want to admit it or not. So why not admit it? Say it out loud. It's not – I promise it is not going to take away the beauty and the romance of this thing. Like I've been a divorce lawyer 25 years.
I still get misty-eyed at weddings. I still watch love stories. Like I watch Love on the Spectrum. I literally cry every episode. I haven't seen it. If you ever want to just feel the most affirmed you'll ever feel in your life, because these are people who are struggling with tremendous difficulties and challenges in life, challenges you and I don't have.
I still get misty-eyed at weddings. I still watch love stories. Like I watch Love on the Spectrum. I literally cry every episode. I haven't seen it. If you ever want to just feel the most affirmed you'll ever feel in your life, because these are people who are struggling with tremendous difficulties and challenges in life, challenges you and I don't have.
I still get misty-eyed at weddings. I still watch love stories. Like I watch Love on the Spectrum. I literally cry every episode. I haven't seen it. If you ever want to just feel the most affirmed you'll ever feel in your life, because these are people who are struggling with tremendous difficulties and challenges in life, challenges you and I don't have.
And all they want is connection with another person. Beautiful. And there's something about, like, how they both are like, oh, my God, I want this, like, oh, do you like ice cream? Oh, I like ice cream, too. Like, and it's just, oh, okay, okay, good. Like, we found a thing. We found a connection point.
And all they want is connection with another person. Beautiful. And there's something about, like, how they both are like, oh, my God, I want this, like, oh, do you like ice cream? Oh, I like ice cream, too. Like, and it's just, oh, okay, okay, good. Like, we found a thing. We found a connection point.
And all they want is connection with another person. Beautiful. And there's something about, like, how they both are like, oh, my God, I want this, like, oh, do you like ice cream? Oh, I like ice cream, too. Like, and it's just, oh, okay, okay, good. Like, we found a thing. We found a connection point.
This was her journey of self-discovery. Like, you see it in popular media. Like, watch any film, any TV show. When the man cheats, it's like he's a lecherous guy. The woman cheats, it's like, oh, this poor woman. Like, she needed to find herself. She needed, like, her eat, pray, love moment. And so that's, again, like, the way...
This was her journey of self-discovery. Like, you see it in popular media. Like, watch any film, any TV show. When the man cheats, it's like he's a lecherous guy. The woman cheats, it's like, oh, this poor woman. Like, she needed to find herself. She needed, like, her eat, pray, love moment. And so that's, again, like, the way...
This was her journey of self-discovery. Like, you see it in popular media. Like, watch any film, any TV show. When the man cheats, it's like he's a lecherous guy. The woman cheats, it's like, oh, this poor woman. Like, she needed to find herself. She needed, like, her eat, pray, love moment. And so that's, again, like, the way...
Like, and you're just watching it on the edge of your seat going, oh, my God, yeah, yeah, yeah, good, good, okay, good. You're doing so good. You're doing so good. Okay, they ran out of things to talk about. Okay, it's okay. Just, you know, and I watch it like I imagine some people watch the Super Bowl. like just on the edge of my seat.
Like, and you're just watching it on the edge of your seat going, oh, my God, yeah, yeah, yeah, good, good, okay, good. You're doing so good. You're doing so good. Okay, they ran out of things to talk about. Okay, it's okay. Just, you know, and I watch it like I imagine some people watch the Super Bowl. like just on the edge of my seat.
Like, and you're just watching it on the edge of your seat going, oh, my God, yeah, yeah, yeah, good, good, okay, good. You're doing so good. You're doing so good. Okay, they ran out of things to talk about. Okay, it's okay. Just, you know, and I watch it like I imagine some people watch the Super Bowl. like just on the edge of my seat.
Like you'd think I had money on what happens to Tanner, you know, like I'm watching it. And because there's something so pure about, I just want to find love. Like I just want to find another person that I'm going to feel loved by and safe with and who likes me and who the way they look at me makes me look at myself in a more positive way. There's something so beautiful about that.
Like you'd think I had money on what happens to Tanner, you know, like I'm watching it. And because there's something so pure about, I just want to find love. Like I just want to find another person that I'm going to feel loved by and safe with and who likes me and who the way they look at me makes me look at myself in a more positive way. There's something so beautiful about that.
Like you'd think I had money on what happens to Tanner, you know, like I'm watching it. And because there's something so pure about, I just want to find love. Like I just want to find another person that I'm going to feel loved by and safe with and who likes me and who the way they look at me makes me look at myself in a more positive way. There's something so beautiful about that.
And maybe you have to strip away a lot of this intellectual crap to like be able to really see that that's what this comes down to and to make it its purest distilled version. But again, I think that's something that's easiest and best to do when you're at the beginning of that journey, not midway through, not definitely not where it's gone off the rails.
And maybe you have to strip away a lot of this intellectual crap to like be able to really see that that's what this comes down to and to make it its purest distilled version. But again, I think that's something that's easiest and best to do when you're at the beginning of that journey, not midway through, not definitely not where it's gone off the rails.
And maybe you have to strip away a lot of this intellectual crap to like be able to really see that that's what this comes down to and to make it its purest distilled version. But again, I think that's something that's easiest and best to do when you're at the beginning of that journey, not midway through, not definitely not where it's gone off the rails.
The world interacts with people in breakups and in the clay that builds to the breakup is very different. So how people react to it is very different. Men, in my experience as clients—
The world interacts with people in breakups and in the clay that builds to the breakup is very different. So how people react to it is very different. Men, in my experience as clients—
The world interacts with people in breakups and in the clay that builds to the breakup is very different. So how people react to it is very different. Men, in my experience as clients—
But I think what you're saying is spot on. So I've always interpreted social media as a form of advertising. It's really what it is. It's advertising. And there's two things about advertising that I think should be said out loud. One is that advertising is the dream life of a culture. Like it's the ideal. It's the dream life. It's this idea of like, this is what a Bud Light drinker looks like.
But I think what you're saying is spot on. So I've always interpreted social media as a form of advertising. It's really what it is. It's advertising. And there's two things about advertising that I think should be said out loud. One is that advertising is the dream life of a culture. Like it's the ideal. It's the dream life. It's this idea of like, this is what a Bud Light drinker looks like.
But I think what you're saying is spot on. So I've always interpreted social media as a form of advertising. It's really what it is. It's advertising. And there's two things about advertising that I think should be said out loud. One is that advertising is the dream life of a culture. Like it's the ideal. It's the dream life. It's this idea of like, this is what a Bud Light drinker looks like.
You know, they're having a good time. They're with their friends. This is what a guy who drinks this beer looks like. Like, and which guy are you? This is what a BMW driver looks like versus this is what a Hyundai or a Subaru or Jeep driver looks like. Like, so it's the dream life of a culture. And I think there's tremendous value to that.
You know, they're having a good time. They're with their friends. This is what a guy who drinks this beer looks like. Like, and which guy are you? This is what a BMW driver looks like versus this is what a Hyundai or a Subaru or Jeep driver looks like. Like, so it's the dream life of a culture. And I think there's tremendous value to that.
You know, they're having a good time. They're with their friends. This is what a guy who drinks this beer looks like. Like, and which guy are you? This is what a BMW driver looks like versus this is what a Hyundai or a Subaru or Jeep driver looks like. Like, so it's the dream life of a culture. And I think there's tremendous value to that.
Tremendous value to like, what do we imagine ourselves to be? Like, because whenever I'm talking to someone in a negotiation, as someone who negotiates for a living and litigates for a living, like, I'm not just interested in who you are. I'm interested in who you want me to think you are and who you think you are and who you want to be, right?
Tremendous value to like, what do we imagine ourselves to be? Like, because whenever I'm talking to someone in a negotiation, as someone who negotiates for a living and litigates for a living, like, I'm not just interested in who you are. I'm interested in who you want me to think you are and who you think you are and who you want to be, right?
Tremendous value to like, what do we imagine ourselves to be? Like, because whenever I'm talking to someone in a negotiation, as someone who negotiates for a living and litigates for a living, like, I'm not just interested in who you are. I'm interested in who you want me to think you are and who you think you are and who you want to be, right?
So advertising, social media, it's the dream life of a culture. But here's the thing we don't like to talk about. Advertising at its core is the opposite of therapy. If the goal of therapy is to create a sense of wellness and wholeness in a person, okay, advertising is the opposite. You're not okay. You're not okay. You could be. You could be. You could.
So advertising, social media, it's the dream life of a culture. But here's the thing we don't like to talk about. Advertising at its core is the opposite of therapy. If the goal of therapy is to create a sense of wellness and wholeness in a person, okay, advertising is the opposite. You're not okay. You're not okay. You could be. You could be. You could.
So advertising, social media, it's the dream life of a culture. But here's the thing we don't like to talk about. Advertising at its core is the opposite of therapy. If the goal of therapy is to create a sense of wellness and wholeness in a person, okay, advertising is the opposite. You're not okay. You're not okay. You could be. You could be. You could.
If you had, you would have, then you would be better. You're good. True. You're good now. It is true.
If you had, you would have, then you would be better. You're good. True. You're good now. It is true.
If you had, you would have, then you would be better. You're good. True. You're good now. It is true.
But if it, you know, the purpose of advertising is essentially to say you're not okay. You're not okay. You could be. Redemption is available to you.
But if it, you know, the purpose of advertising is essentially to say you're not okay. You're not okay. You could be. Redemption is available to you.
But if it, you know, the purpose of advertising is essentially to say you're not okay. You're not okay. You could be. Redemption is available to you.
You'll be much better. So social media is the same thing. You're not okay. Maybe if you did contrast therapy, saunas, cold plunges, you'd be better. Maybe if you took more creatine, you'd be better. Like you're good now, but you could be better. And so that constant barrage of... of our dream life, our imagination. I mean, again, it's inspiring. It's really good for people in some ways.
You'll be much better. So social media is the same thing. You're not okay. Maybe if you did contrast therapy, saunas, cold plunges, you'd be better. Maybe if you took more creatine, you'd be better. Like you're good now, but you could be better. And so that constant barrage of... of our dream life, our imagination. I mean, again, it's inspiring. It's really good for people in some ways.
You'll be much better. So social media is the same thing. You're not okay. Maybe if you did contrast therapy, saunas, cold plunges, you'd be better. Maybe if you took more creatine, you'd be better. Like you're good now, but you could be better. And so that constant barrage of... of our dream life, our imagination. I mean, again, it's inspiring. It's really good for people in some ways.
There's a lot of anger that, you know, manifests in very honest ways, like very blunt ways, like very, you know, because men are, you know, Bill Burr recently in one of his recent specials, this thing about men are allowed to be two things, angry or fine. That's it. Like angry or fine. And I used to always say that growing up, you know, I'm 52. Like growing up, I had two choices.
There's a lot of anger that, you know, manifests in very honest ways, like very blunt ways, like very, you know, because men are, you know, Bill Burr recently in one of his recent specials, this thing about men are allowed to be two things, angry or fine. That's it. Like angry or fine. And I used to always say that growing up, you know, I'm 52. Like growing up, I had two choices.
There's a lot of anger that, you know, manifests in very honest ways, like very blunt ways, like very, you know, because men are, you know, Bill Burr recently in one of his recent specials, this thing about men are allowed to be two things, angry or fine. That's it. Like angry or fine. And I used to always say that growing up, you know, I'm 52. Like growing up, I had two choices.
But to be inundated on a daily basis with you're not okay, you're not over and over again, this is not a normal condition for humans to be in. And that is why I think to some degree, We find that like romantic relationships so appealing because you're closing the door and this person, you're okay. You're good. You're good. I have you. That's what I need. Yeah, well, I have you. That's what I need.
But to be inundated on a daily basis with you're not okay, you're not over and over again, this is not a normal condition for humans to be in. And that is why I think to some degree, We find that like romantic relationships so appealing because you're closing the door and this person, you're okay. You're good. You're good. I have you. That's what I need. Yeah, well, I have you. That's what I need.
But to be inundated on a daily basis with you're not okay, you're not over and over again, this is not a normal condition for humans to be in. And that is why I think to some degree, We find that like romantic relationships so appealing because you're closing the door and this person, you're okay. You're good. You're good. I have you. That's what I need. Yeah, well, I have you. That's what I need.
Yeah, and what a warm, wonderful place to be. Particularly, like it's really nice to be in a warm house when it's cold outside. It's really nice to be in a dry house when it's raining outside.
Yeah, and what a warm, wonderful place to be. Particularly, like it's really nice to be in a warm house when it's cold outside. It's really nice to be in a dry house when it's raining outside.
Yeah, and what a warm, wonderful place to be. Particularly, like it's really nice to be in a warm house when it's cold outside. It's really nice to be in a dry house when it's raining outside.
Well, when you're living in an ecosystem where information has become a form of garbage that comes at you from every possible angle all the time, devoid of context, and everything is an advertisement telling you there's something wrong with you, why wouldn't you want to slam the door, close the windows, and be with someone, and ideally a couple of dogs, where you guys can just be warm and happy and love each other?
Well, when you're living in an ecosystem where information has become a form of garbage that comes at you from every possible angle all the time, devoid of context, and everything is an advertisement telling you there's something wrong with you, why wouldn't you want to slam the door, close the windows, and be with someone, and ideally a couple of dogs, where you guys can just be warm and happy and love each other?
Well, when you're living in an ecosystem where information has become a form of garbage that comes at you from every possible angle all the time, devoid of context, and everything is an advertisement telling you there's something wrong with you, why wouldn't you want to slam the door, close the windows, and be with someone, and ideally a couple of dogs, where you guys can just be warm and happy and love each other?
And by the way, It's right there. It's so accessible. You don't have to buy much of anything. You don't have to, like, you don't need that much. If you have love and you have each other, you don't need. But that's why I think our society, I think capitalism likes love insofar as it sells Hyundais and it'll get people to buy, like, the wedding industrial complex.
And by the way, It's right there. It's so accessible. You don't have to buy much of anything. You don't have to, like, you don't need that much. If you have love and you have each other, you don't need. But that's why I think our society, I think capitalism likes love insofar as it sells Hyundais and it'll get people to buy, like, the wedding industrial complex.
And by the way, It's right there. It's so accessible. You don't have to buy much of anything. You don't have to, like, you don't need that much. If you have love and you have each other, you don't need. But that's why I think our society, I think capitalism likes love insofar as it sells Hyundais and it'll get people to buy, like, the wedding industrial complex.
Like, it'll get you to go out and do all the stuff you do. But, like, the idea that, hey, if we just find another person, that we might realize that this is all the matrix. Like, that I don't need all of that to be loved. And I don't need all of that to feel love. Like, the fullness you feel when you love someone and are loved by them. Like, again, it doesn't even have to be a human. You're a dog.
Like, it'll get you to go out and do all the stuff you do. But, like, the idea that, hey, if we just find another person, that we might realize that this is all the matrix. Like, that I don't need all of that to be loved. And I don't need all of that to feel love. Like, the fullness you feel when you love someone and are loved by them. Like, again, it doesn't even have to be a human. You're a dog.
Like, it'll get you to go out and do all the stuff you do. But, like, the idea that, hey, if we just find another person, that we might realize that this is all the matrix. Like, that I don't need all of that to be loved. And I don't need all of that to feel love. Like, the fullness you feel when you love someone and are loved by them. Like, again, it doesn't even have to be a human. You're a dog.
Why are people always like, man, we don't deserve dogs? Yeah. Because your dog doesn't give a shit what car you drive or what you do or how – if you got six-pack abs. Like they don't care. Like they just love you. And you love them in a way that is like mind-blowing in that, again, do you ever look at – people are always like, oh, well, you know, this person I'm in a romantic relationship with.
Why are people always like, man, we don't deserve dogs? Yeah. Because your dog doesn't give a shit what car you drive or what you do or how – if you got six-pack abs. Like they don't care. Like they just love you. And you love them in a way that is like mind-blowing in that, again, do you ever look at – people are always like, oh, well, you know, this person I'm in a romantic relationship with.
Why are people always like, man, we don't deserve dogs? Yeah. Because your dog doesn't give a shit what car you drive or what you do or how – if you got six-pack abs. Like they don't care. Like they just love you. And you love them in a way that is like mind-blowing in that, again, do you ever look at – people are always like, oh, well, you know, this person I'm in a romantic relationship with.
Like they're aging. Their body is not as jacked as it was or they're not as – do you ever look at your dog and go like – I got to get a puppy, man. Like this dog is old now.
Like they're aging. Their body is not as jacked as it was or they're not as – do you ever look at your dog and go like – I got to get a puppy, man. Like this dog is old now.
Like they're aging. Their body is not as jacked as it was or they're not as – do you ever look at your dog and go like – I got to get a puppy, man. Like this dog is old now.
It's just deeper and deeper. It's like the pair of jeans that you're like, oh my God, it gets more comfortable every year. Like, and like love, that's how love can be and should be. But again, it requires to some degree that that noise of that ecosystem, that constant, you're not okay. You're not okay. That we can figure out a way to turn the volume down on that and turn up the volume on,
It's just deeper and deeper. It's like the pair of jeans that you're like, oh my God, it gets more comfortable every year. Like, and like love, that's how love can be and should be. But again, it requires to some degree that that noise of that ecosystem, that constant, you're not okay. You're not okay. That we can figure out a way to turn the volume down on that and turn up the volume on,
It's just deeper and deeper. It's like the pair of jeans that you're like, oh my God, it gets more comfortable every year. Like, and like love, that's how love can be and should be. But again, it requires to some degree that that noise of that ecosystem, that constant, you're not okay. You're not okay. That we can figure out a way to turn the volume down on that and turn up the volume on,
What are we feeding here together? Again, it may not sell as many cars. It may not sell as much beer. It may not, you know, but that's okay. Like that's the wholeness, that sense of wholeness, like that depth of connection to me, like that makes all the sense in the world.
What are we feeding here together? Again, it may not sell as many cars. It may not sell as much beer. It may not, you know, but that's okay. Like that's the wholeness, that sense of wholeness, like that depth of connection to me, like that makes all the sense in the world.
What are we feeding here together? Again, it may not sell as many cars. It may not sell as much beer. It may not, you know, but that's okay. Like that's the wholeness, that sense of wholeness, like that depth of connection to me, like that makes all the sense in the world.
Yeah. Always. Almost anybody, if you ask them, you know, genuinely ask them, like, what was a moment where you felt the most loved? Like, their answer will surprise you. Like, it rarely costs anything. It rarely, you know, I was on, you and I both done Diary of a CEO, you know, Steve Bartlett, and we both have a friendship with Steve.
Yeah. Always. Almost anybody, if you ask them, you know, genuinely ask them, like, what was a moment where you felt the most loved? Like, their answer will surprise you. Like, it rarely costs anything. It rarely, you know, I was on, you and I both done Diary of a CEO, you know, Steve Bartlett, and we both have a friendship with Steve.
Yeah. Always. Almost anybody, if you ask them, you know, genuinely ask them, like, what was a moment where you felt the most loved? Like, their answer will surprise you. Like, it rarely costs anything. It rarely, you know, I was on, you and I both done Diary of a CEO, you know, Steve Bartlett, and we both have a friendship with Steve.
You're either Clint Eastwood or Richard Simmons. Those were your two choices as a man. You were either like stoic, you know, stony, no emotion or gay. That was it. Those were like your two choices. And of course, it's totally dishonest. Of course, the reality is, is men have a different... You know, we have an emotional vocabulary. It just expresses in different ways.
You're either Clint Eastwood or Richard Simmons. Those were your two choices as a man. You were either like stoic, you know, stony, no emotion or gay. That was it. Those were like your two choices. And of course, it's totally dishonest. Of course, the reality is, is men have a different... You know, we have an emotional vocabulary. It just expresses in different ways.
You're either Clint Eastwood or Richard Simmons. Those were your two choices as a man. You were either like stoic, you know, stony, no emotion or gay. That was it. Those were like your two choices. And of course, it's totally dishonest. Of course, the reality is, is men have a different... You know, we have an emotional vocabulary. It just expresses in different ways.
And one of the questions he asked me was, when did you feel in your life the most loved? And I instantly knew the answer. And it was the silliest answer and yet the most honest. And I told a story about how my... When I was a kid, we used to get pizza every once in a while. And, you know, pizza's got a certain number of slices. And...
And one of the questions he asked me was, when did you feel in your life the most loved? And I instantly knew the answer. And it was the silliest answer and yet the most honest. And I told a story about how my... When I was a kid, we used to get pizza every once in a while. And, you know, pizza's got a certain number of slices. And...
And one of the questions he asked me was, when did you feel in your life the most loved? And I instantly knew the answer. And it was the silliest answer and yet the most honest. And I told a story about how my... When I was a kid, we used to get pizza every once in a while. And, you know, pizza's got a certain number of slices. And...
I remember my friend Tommy and I were having pizza and my dad, like there was an odd number of slices. And my dad had one slice and we like two young boys just devoured, you know, like three, four slices a piece. So there's only one more slice left. And of course, he and I are both looking at it, even though we'd had like three or four slices of pizza and my dad had only had one.
I remember my friend Tommy and I were having pizza and my dad, like there was an odd number of slices. And my dad had one slice and we like two young boys just devoured, you know, like three, four slices a piece. So there's only one more slice left. And of course, he and I are both looking at it, even though we'd had like three or four slices of pizza and my dad had only had one.
I remember my friend Tommy and I were having pizza and my dad, like there was an odd number of slices. And my dad had one slice and we like two young boys just devoured, you know, like three, four slices a piece. So there's only one more slice left. And of course, he and I are both looking at it, even though we'd had like three or four slices of pizza and my dad had only had one.
And my dad went like, yeah, you guys can have it. And we split that last piece, my friend and I. And a couple of weeks later, I was at his house and ordered pizza. And his father just like ate the last slice of pizza. He ate like more slices than we did. And I remember looking at him and thinking, my dad would never do that. And I remember thinking, oh, he loves me.
And my dad went like, yeah, you guys can have it. And we split that last piece, my friend and I. And a couple of weeks later, I was at his house and ordered pizza. And his father just like ate the last slice of pizza. He ate like more slices than we did. And I remember looking at him and thinking, my dad would never do that. And I remember thinking, oh, he loves me.
And my dad went like, yeah, you guys can have it. And we split that last piece, my friend and I. And a couple of weeks later, I was at his house and ordered pizza. And his father just like ate the last slice of pizza. He ate like more slices than we did. And I remember looking at him and thinking, my dad would never do that. And I remember thinking, oh, he loves me.
Like I just felt it to my core that like he loves me so much. Like I know he wanted that other piece of pizza. But the joy he felt in watching me eat another piece of pizza was bigger than the hunger he had for another piece of pizza. That is the purest expression of love. And like most people, if you say to them like what was a moment in your romantic relationship where you felt loved?
Like I just felt it to my core that like he loves me so much. Like I know he wanted that other piece of pizza. But the joy he felt in watching me eat another piece of pizza was bigger than the hunger he had for another piece of pizza. That is the purest expression of love. And like most people, if you say to them like what was a moment in your romantic relationship where you felt loved?
Like I just felt it to my core that like he loves me so much. Like I know he wanted that other piece of pizza. But the joy he felt in watching me eat another piece of pizza was bigger than the hunger he had for another piece of pizza. That is the purest expression of love. And like most people, if you say to them like what was a moment in your romantic relationship where you felt loved?
Or you just felt joy inside yourself? Like, God, I'd rather be here than anywhere in the world? The answer is not going to be we were at the most expensive restaurant or we were having the most mind-blowing sex. Listen, you'll have fond memories of all those things.
Or you just felt joy inside yourself? Like, God, I'd rather be here than anywhere in the world? The answer is not going to be we were at the most expensive restaurant or we were having the most mind-blowing sex. Listen, you'll have fond memories of all those things.
Or you just felt joy inside yourself? Like, God, I'd rather be here than anywhere in the world? The answer is not going to be we were at the most expensive restaurant or we were having the most mind-blowing sex. Listen, you'll have fond memories of all those things.
But it's some little moment of just connection or just the feeling of like holding this person's hand or like the way that the light hit them at the particular sunset when you were sitting outside together. Like, and to me, like, of course. Modern consumer culture doesn't shove that down your throat because you don't need to buy anything to experience that.
But it's some little moment of just connection or just the feeling of like holding this person's hand or like the way that the light hit them at the particular sunset when you were sitting outside together. Like, and to me, like, of course. Modern consumer culture doesn't shove that down your throat because you don't need to buy anything to experience that.
But it's some little moment of just connection or just the feeling of like holding this person's hand or like the way that the light hit them at the particular sunset when you were sitting outside together. Like, and to me, like, of course. Modern consumer culture doesn't shove that down your throat because you don't need to buy anything to experience that.
You don't need to do anything to experience that other than find another person and love them, you know, and let them love you. And that doesn't require a lot of purchases.
You don't need to do anything to experience that other than find another person and love them, you know, and let them love you. And that doesn't require a lot of purchases.
You don't need to do anything to experience that other than find another person and love them, you know, and let them love you. And that doesn't require a lot of purchases.
But anger is something men are allowed to have. So when men are sad, they seem angry. When men are angry, they seem angry. Women... My experience of women in divorce is they're much more forgiving in unhappy marriages. They're much more willing to stay in relatively unhappy marriages and sort of torture their partner.
But anger is something men are allowed to have. So when men are sad, they seem angry. When men are angry, they seem angry. Women... My experience of women in divorce is they're much more forgiving in unhappy marriages. They're much more willing to stay in relatively unhappy marriages and sort of torture their partner.
But anger is something men are allowed to have. So when men are sad, they seem angry. When men are angry, they seem angry. Women... My experience of women in divorce is they're much more forgiving in unhappy marriages. They're much more willing to stay in relatively unhappy marriages and sort of torture their partner.
Well, first of all, there's nothing silly about that example. Just the fact that you say like, well, that silly example I gave, like there's absolutely nothing silly about that. Like there's – I completely got it. I completely was smiling while you were telling that story because it's lovely because what is it? It's intimacy. It's intimacy.
Well, first of all, there's nothing silly about that example. Just the fact that you say like, well, that silly example I gave, like there's absolutely nothing silly about that. Like there's – I completely got it. I completely was smiling while you were telling that story because it's lovely because what is it? It's intimacy. It's intimacy.
Well, first of all, there's nothing silly about that example. Just the fact that you say like, well, that silly example I gave, like there's absolutely nothing silly about that. Like there's – I completely got it. I completely was smiling while you were telling that story because it's lovely because what is it? It's intimacy. It's intimacy.
Like the definition of intimacy has nothing to do with sex. Intimacy is defined as the ability to be completely yourself with another person. And what was she doing there? She was doing what we all do on a date. Those first few days, those early days, we have Spanx on our personality. You know, everything is like, okay, I'm gonna, and again, is it lying? No, is makeup lying?
Like the definition of intimacy has nothing to do with sex. Intimacy is defined as the ability to be completely yourself with another person. And what was she doing there? She was doing what we all do on a date. Those first few days, those early days, we have Spanx on our personality. You know, everything is like, okay, I'm gonna, and again, is it lying? No, is makeup lying?
Like the definition of intimacy has nothing to do with sex. Intimacy is defined as the ability to be completely yourself with another person. And what was she doing there? She was doing what we all do on a date. Those first few days, those early days, we have Spanx on our personality. You know, everything is like, okay, I'm gonna, and again, is it lying? No, is makeup lying?
And then when they've decided, OK, I'm out, there is a level of like, yeah, whatever we got to do, we got to do. Like that sometimes to me as someone who does this for a living is like, oh, oh, OK, like you're you're just willing to go there. Like mercenary.
And then when they've decided, OK, I'm out, there is a level of like, yeah, whatever we got to do, we got to do. Like that sometimes to me as someone who does this for a living is like, oh, oh, OK, like you're you're just willing to go there. Like mercenary.
And then when they've decided, OK, I'm out, there is a level of like, yeah, whatever we got to do, we got to do. Like that sometimes to me as someone who does this for a living is like, oh, oh, OK, like you're you're just willing to go there. Like mercenary.
No, it accentuates the positive, dissentuates the negative. It's not a lie. If someone was wearing makeup and then they take the makeup off, I don't go, your layer eyelashes don't look like that. You're a liar. No, look, you're trying to impress me. I get it. Like, you're trying to be the—but eventually you're going to see this person without makeup.
No, it accentuates the positive, dissentuates the negative. It's not a lie. If someone was wearing makeup and then they take the makeup off, I don't go, your layer eyelashes don't look like that. You're a liar. No, look, you're trying to impress me. I get it. Like, you're trying to be the—but eventually you're going to see this person without makeup.
No, it accentuates the positive, dissentuates the negative. It's not a lie. If someone was wearing makeup and then they take the makeup off, I don't go, your layer eyelashes don't look like that. You're a liar. No, look, you're trying to impress me. I get it. Like, you're trying to be the—but eventually you're going to see this person without makeup.
Like, eventually you're going to find out she puts an insane amount of cream into her coffee. But these are the things we love about people. It's what makes them human. Is that she puts so much cream in her coffee, like so weird to me. It's ridiculous. But let me tell you something. You still think of her when you drive. You think of that moment.
Like, eventually you're going to find out she puts an insane amount of cream into her coffee. But these are the things we love about people. It's what makes them human. Is that she puts so much cream in her coffee, like so weird to me. It's ridiculous. But let me tell you something. You still think of her when you drive. You think of that moment.
Like, eventually you're going to find out she puts an insane amount of cream into her coffee. But these are the things we love about people. It's what makes them human. Is that she puts so much cream in her coffee, like so weird to me. It's ridiculous. But let me tell you something. You still think of her when you drive. You think of that moment.
Like that was an investment that paid dividends forever. You'll remember that forever. And by the way, it's not a betrayal to future relationships that you fondly recall this moment of intimacy where this person felt loved enough and comfortable enough with you to go, yeah, I'm going to take that mask off. I'm going to show you I like an insane amount of cream.
Like that was an investment that paid dividends forever. You'll remember that forever. And by the way, it's not a betrayal to future relationships that you fondly recall this moment of intimacy where this person felt loved enough and comfortable enough with you to go, yeah, I'm going to take that mask off. I'm going to show you I like an insane amount of cream.
Like that was an investment that paid dividends forever. You'll remember that forever. And by the way, it's not a betrayal to future relationships that you fondly recall this moment of intimacy where this person felt loved enough and comfortable enough with you to go, yeah, I'm going to take that mask off. I'm going to show you I like an insane amount of cream.
I have no idea why I like that much cream, but I just do. Like, does that make me weird? Is that okay? And you're going like, yeah, go to town. Like, whatever, man. Like, I don't even use cream, but like, go to town. Like, be you. Like, that's the feeling we all want is that feeling of like, yeah, you're not crazy. You make sense to me. You're not just like me.
I have no idea why I like that much cream, but I just do. Like, does that make me weird? Is that okay? And you're going like, yeah, go to town. Like, whatever, man. Like, I don't even use cream, but like, go to town. Like, be you. Like, that's the feeling we all want is that feeling of like, yeah, you're not crazy. You make sense to me. You're not just like me.
I have no idea why I like that much cream, but I just do. Like, does that make me weird? Is that okay? And you're going like, yeah, go to town. Like, whatever, man. Like, I don't even use cream, but like, go to town. Like, be you. Like, that's the feeling we all want is that feeling of like, yeah, you're not crazy. You make sense to me. You're not just like me.
We're very different, but you make sense to me. I feel understood. And that to me, that's the whole thing. And so if you say, well, this is where we were in early days and that's the baseline. And if we don't continue to feel that intoxicated by each other, that we're doing it wrong, okay, then you've set an impossible standard.
We're very different, but you make sense to me. I feel understood. And that to me, that's the whole thing. And so if you say, well, this is where we were in early days and that's the baseline. And if we don't continue to feel that intoxicated by each other, that we're doing it wrong, okay, then you've set an impossible standard.
We're very different, but you make sense to me. I feel understood. And that to me, that's the whole thing. And so if you say, well, this is where we were in early days and that's the baseline. And if we don't continue to feel that intoxicated by each other, that we're doing it wrong, okay, then you've set an impossible standard.
That's like saying, I'm not in the shape I was in when I was 25, so I must be doing something wrong. No, like the organism doesn't change. It doesn't evolve that way. Like this is the nature of things, is that it's supposed to be what it is. Like it's supposed to merge or evolve into something different. But again...
That's like saying, I'm not in the shape I was in when I was 25, so I must be doing something wrong. No, like the organism doesn't change. It doesn't evolve that way. Like this is the nature of things, is that it's supposed to be what it is. Like it's supposed to merge or evolve into something different. But again...
That's like saying, I'm not in the shape I was in when I was 25, so I must be doing something wrong. No, like the organism doesn't change. It doesn't evolve that way. Like this is the nature of things, is that it's supposed to be what it is. Like it's supposed to merge or evolve into something different. But again...
Having conversations about what that is and what it looks like, that's the best possible way to preserve what's best in it. And I think starting a marriage with we're not going to talk about any of that. We're not going to look at any of it. We're just in love. That's all that matters. We're just in love. That's all that matters. Let's talk about any of this other stuff.
Having conversations about what that is and what it looks like, that's the best possible way to preserve what's best in it. And I think starting a marriage with we're not going to talk about any of that. We're not going to look at any of it. We're just in love. That's all that matters. We're just in love. That's all that matters. Let's talk about any of this other stuff.
Having conversations about what that is and what it looks like, that's the best possible way to preserve what's best in it. And I think starting a marriage with we're not going to talk about any of that. We're not going to look at any of it. We're just in love. That's all that matters. We're just in love. That's all that matters. Let's talk about any of this other stuff.
Like that's not – that to me you're doing yourself a disservice. Start early. by creating the pattern of we're just gonna say it. We're just gonna say it. We're just gonna say what we're doing right, what we're doing that hit the wrong way. Like, cause here's the thing, like you and I are friends.
Like that's not – that to me you're doing yourself a disservice. Start early. by creating the pattern of we're just gonna say it. We're just gonna say it. We're just gonna say what we're doing right, what we're doing that hit the wrong way. Like, cause here's the thing, like you and I are friends.
Like that's not – that to me you're doing yourself a disservice. Start early. by creating the pattern of we're just gonna say it. We're just gonna say it. We're just gonna say what we're doing right, what we're doing that hit the wrong way. Like, cause here's the thing, like you and I are friends.
If you hurt my feelings, if we had a conversation and you said something and it just hurt my feelings, I know you didn't mean to. We're friends. I know you don't want to hurt me. I don't want to hurt you. You're my friend. Like, I get it. But I'm going to probably say something sometime that hurts you, and I didn't mean to, you know? So what do you do? Carry that around?
If you hurt my feelings, if we had a conversation and you said something and it just hurt my feelings, I know you didn't mean to. We're friends. I know you don't want to hurt me. I don't want to hurt you. You're my friend. Like, I get it. But I'm going to probably say something sometime that hurts you, and I didn't mean to, you know? So what do you do? Carry that around?
If you hurt my feelings, if we had a conversation and you said something and it just hurt my feelings, I know you didn't mean to. We're friends. I know you don't want to hurt me. I don't want to hurt you. You're my friend. Like, I get it. But I'm going to probably say something sometime that hurts you, and I didn't mean to, you know? So what do you do? Carry that around?
Yeah, just there's, you know, like when, and you look at the history of the marriage and you go, wow, when they were together, like there's nothing she wouldn't do for him. And now it's ending and man, there's nothing she won't do to him. Like she is just weaponized on him. And it's kind of, it used to be surprising to me. It's not really surprising to me anymore.
Yeah, just there's, you know, like when, and you look at the history of the marriage and you go, wow, when they were together, like there's nothing she wouldn't do for him. And now it's ending and man, there's nothing she won't do to him. Like she is just weaponized on him. And it's kind of, it used to be surprising to me. It's not really surprising to me anymore.
Yeah, just there's, you know, like when, and you look at the history of the marriage and you go, wow, when they were together, like there's nothing she wouldn't do for him. And now it's ending and man, there's nothing she won't do to him. Like she is just weaponized on him. And it's kind of, it used to be surprising to me. It's not really surprising to me anymore.
Just don't say it out loud because it's uncomfortable to say that to Jim. He's going to feel badly that he said that to me and that it upset me. So I'm just going to carry it around. That's how, if you've been in a long-term romantic relationship, which we both have in our lives—
Just don't say it out loud because it's uncomfortable to say that to Jim. He's going to feel badly that he said that to me and that it upset me. So I'm just going to carry it around. That's how, if you've been in a long-term romantic relationship, which we both have in our lives—
Just don't say it out loud because it's uncomfortable to say that to Jim. He's going to feel badly that he said that to me and that it upset me. So I'm just going to carry it around. That's how, if you've been in a long-term romantic relationship, which we both have in our lives—
That's how you're having some very banal sort of argument about, like, what's the best way to get from here to Calabasas or whatever. And five minutes later, it's like, you know, I never liked your mother. And, like, you never respected me. And you're like, how did we get there? Like, how long have you had that in the chamber? Like, how long have you been holding on to that?
That's how you're having some very banal sort of argument about, like, what's the best way to get from here to Calabasas or whatever. And five minutes later, it's like, you know, I never liked your mother. And, like, you never respected me. And you're like, how did we get there? Like, how long have you had that in the chamber? Like, how long have you been holding on to that?
That's how you're having some very banal sort of argument about, like, what's the best way to get from here to Calabasas or whatever. And five minutes later, it's like, you know, I never liked your mother. And, like, you never respected me. And you're like, how did we get there? Like, how long have you had that in the chamber? Like, how long have you been holding on to that?
And the answer is since the day it happened. So why not create a framework early? Where if we, something blips the wrong way, like I'm not saying dwell on it. I'm not saying put a person in a defensive situation by immediately calling it out. But like if you, if I said, I'm telling you right now as my friend, if I say something to you at some point that hurts you, I know I didn't mean to.
And the answer is since the day it happened. So why not create a framework early? Where if we, something blips the wrong way, like I'm not saying dwell on it. I'm not saying put a person in a defensive situation by immediately calling it out. But like if you, if I said, I'm telling you right now as my friend, if I say something to you at some point that hurts you, I know I didn't mean to.
And the answer is since the day it happened. So why not create a framework early? Where if we, something blips the wrong way, like I'm not saying dwell on it. I'm not saying put a person in a defensive situation by immediately calling it out. But like if you, if I said, I'm telling you right now as my friend, if I say something to you at some point that hurts you, I know I didn't mean to.
I know I didn't mean to. So I'll tell you in advance, I'm sorry. I'm sorry because I know I didn't mean to hurt you. Doesn't mean what I said isn't true. It might be true. It might be fair criticism. But I know I didn't mean to hurt you. I know because I love you. And so if you're my friend and I love you, I didn't mean to hurt you. I know that for sure.
I know I didn't mean to. So I'll tell you in advance, I'm sorry. I'm sorry because I know I didn't mean to hurt you. Doesn't mean what I said isn't true. It might be true. It might be fair criticism. But I know I didn't mean to hurt you. I know because I love you. And so if you're my friend and I love you, I didn't mean to hurt you. I know that for sure.
I know I didn't mean to. So I'll tell you in advance, I'm sorry. I'm sorry because I know I didn't mean to hurt you. Doesn't mean what I said isn't true. It might be true. It might be fair criticism. But I know I didn't mean to hurt you. I know because I love you. And so if you're my friend and I love you, I didn't mean to hurt you. I know that for sure.
So why can't we from the beginning – and that's why I like prenups because from the beginning – Let's talk about this. What do we mean to each other? What do we owe to each other? What are the benchmarks of this economy? Like, what are the exchanges of value between us? And as we grow and change, how will we hold on to the part that's most meaningful to both of us?
So why can't we from the beginning – and that's why I like prenups because from the beginning – Let's talk about this. What do we mean to each other? What do we owe to each other? What are the benchmarks of this economy? Like, what are the exchanges of value between us? And as we grow and change, how will we hold on to the part that's most meaningful to both of us?
So why can't we from the beginning – and that's why I like prenups because from the beginning – Let's talk about this. What do we mean to each other? What do we owe to each other? What are the benchmarks of this economy? Like, what are the exchanges of value between us? And as we grow and change, how will we hold on to the part that's most meaningful to both of us?
Actually, one of my jujitsu teachers, Paul Schreiner, he's got a remarkable number of chihuahuas. He rescues chihuahuas.
Actually, one of my jujitsu teachers, Paul Schreiner, he's got a remarkable number of chihuahuas. He rescues chihuahuas.
Actually, one of my jujitsu teachers, Paul Schreiner, he's got a remarkable number of chihuahuas. He rescues chihuahuas.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Well, I mean, if you think about chihuahuas, it's fair because if you glued like 20 of them together, it's still not a great day. Yeah. You know what I mean? Size-wise. Just mass in terms of volume of it.
Well, I mean, if you think about chihuahuas, it's fair because if you glued like 20 of them together, it's still not a great day. Yeah. You know what I mean? Size-wise. Just mass in terms of volume of it.
Well, I mean, if you think about chihuahuas, it's fair because if you glued like 20 of them together, it's still not a great day. Yeah. You know what I mean? Size-wise. Just mass in terms of volume of it.
I like all dogs, too.
I like all dogs, too.
I like all dogs, too.
You know, what you're doing is we're going to do a consultation for a prenuptial agreement right here. I do them all the time. Great. So the first thing that, yeah, you're getting it for free. I mean, that's pretty good. It's usually $850. So what I'll say is the following.
You know, what you're doing is we're going to do a consultation for a prenuptial agreement right here. I do them all the time. Great. So the first thing that, yeah, you're getting it for free. I mean, that's pretty good. It's usually $850. So what I'll say is the following.
You know, what you're doing is we're going to do a consultation for a prenuptial agreement right here. I do them all the time. Great. So the first thing that, yeah, you're getting it for free. I mean, that's pretty good. It's usually $850. So what I'll say is the following.
To understand what a contract does, the first thing you have to understand is what are your rights in the absence of that contract, right? Most contracts, that's pretty easy. Like I'm going to lease a car. I know in the absence of that car lease, they have the car and I have the money. right? So that's a really easy contract because whatever the contract is, we both want the same thing.
To understand what a contract does, the first thing you have to understand is what are your rights in the absence of that contract, right? Most contracts, that's pretty easy. Like I'm going to lease a car. I know in the absence of that car lease, they have the car and I have the money. right? So that's a really easy contract because whatever the contract is, we both want the same thing.
To understand what a contract does, the first thing you have to understand is what are your rights in the absence of that contract, right? Most contracts, that's pretty easy. Like I'm going to lease a car. I know in the absence of that car lease, they have the car and I have the money. right? So that's a really easy contract because whatever the contract is, we both want the same thing.
I think I have a friend who was a criminal lawyer for many years, criminal defense attorney, really good one in the city. And we used to laugh because he used to say, as a criminal lawyer, he sees bad people at their best. And as a divorce lawyer, I see good people at their worst.
I think I have a friend who was a criminal lawyer for many years, criminal defense attorney, really good one in the city. And we used to laugh because he used to say, as a criminal lawyer, he sees bad people at their best. And as a divorce lawyer, I see good people at their worst.
I think I have a friend who was a criminal lawyer for many years, criminal defense attorney, really good one in the city. And we used to laugh because he used to say, as a criminal lawyer, he sees bad people at their best. And as a divorce lawyer, I see good people at their worst.
They want my money and I want their car. So now we're just trying to figure out what are the terms and how do we codify them? And then we'll come up with what are some things that could go wrong? What if I stop making the payments? What if I drive the car off the lot and the wheels fall off? Like, okay, now we have to start using some imagination about what do we do in these contingencies.
They want my money and I want their car. So now we're just trying to figure out what are the terms and how do we codify them? And then we'll come up with what are some things that could go wrong? What if I stop making the payments? What if I drive the car off the lot and the wheels fall off? Like, okay, now we have to start using some imagination about what do we do in these contingencies.
They want my money and I want their car. So now we're just trying to figure out what are the terms and how do we codify them? And then we'll come up with what are some things that could go wrong? What if I stop making the payments? What if I drive the car off the lot and the wheels fall off? Like, okay, now we have to start using some imagination about what do we do in these contingencies.
But at its core, Simple contract, which is I want the car. You got a car. You want money. I've got money. Let's figure this out. And if we can, somebody else will get the car and somebody else will take my money. We'll be all right. We'll be okay. Scheme of things, right? So this is the same thing, okay? It's the same thing. So if we don't marry, we both know that's easy, right?
But at its core, Simple contract, which is I want the car. You got a car. You want money. I've got money. Let's figure this out. And if we can, somebody else will get the car and somebody else will take my money. We'll be all right. We'll be okay. Scheme of things, right? So this is the same thing, okay? It's the same thing. So if we don't marry, we both know that's easy, right?
But at its core, Simple contract, which is I want the car. You got a car. You want money. I've got money. Let's figure this out. And if we can, somebody else will get the car and somebody else will take my money. We'll be all right. We'll be okay. Scheme of things, right? So this is the same thing, okay? It's the same thing. So if we don't marry, we both know that's easy, right?
We both know we're in love. We're happy. We're together. We're enjoying each other's company. Now we're not going to get married. What happens? So you suddenly love goes out the window. The whole thing falls apart. I don't think so. That's kind of weird. Right. So, again, first order of business is why are we getting married? Why? Like, what is the problem to which marriage is a solution?
We both know we're in love. We're happy. We're together. We're enjoying each other's company. Now we're not going to get married. What happens? So you suddenly love goes out the window. The whole thing falls apart. I don't think so. That's kind of weird. Right. So, again, first order of business is why are we getting married? Why? Like, what is the problem to which marriage is a solution?
We both know we're in love. We're happy. We're together. We're enjoying each other's company. Now we're not going to get married. What happens? So you suddenly love goes out the window. The whole thing falls apart. I don't think so. That's kind of weird. Right. So, again, first order of business is why are we getting married? Why? Like, what is the problem to which marriage is a solution?
Like, why is it so strange to say to another human being, if I said to you, Andrew, great news, I'm getting married. If you said, really, why? Like, why would that be like, what kind of jerk is Andrew today? Like, it's, why? Well, my parents, it's really important to them that I get married.
Like, why is it so strange to say to another human being, if I said to you, Andrew, great news, I'm getting married. If you said, really, why? Like, why would that be like, what kind of jerk is Andrew today? Like, it's, why? Well, my parents, it's really important to them that I get married.
Like, why is it so strange to say to another human being, if I said to you, Andrew, great news, I'm getting married. If you said, really, why? Like, why would that be like, what kind of jerk is Andrew today? Like, it's, why? Well, my parents, it's really important to them that I get married.
And, you know, we're having a great time, she and I, but like, you know, her parents are very religious and they say, oh, That's a good reason. It's a good reason to get married. Like, we do things to make our parents happy or our partner's parents happy. That's okay. That makes sense to me. I genuinely think that there's a valid thing there, which is this is the reason why we're getting married.
And, you know, we're having a great time, she and I, but like, you know, her parents are very religious and they say, oh, That's a good reason. It's a good reason to get married. Like, we do things to make our parents happy or our partner's parents happy. That's okay. That makes sense to me. I genuinely think that there's a valid thing there, which is this is the reason why we're getting married.
And, you know, we're having a great time, she and I, but like, you know, her parents are very religious and they say, oh, That's a good reason. It's a good reason to get married. Like, we do things to make our parents happy or our partner's parents happy. That's okay. That makes sense to me. I genuinely think that there's a valid thing there, which is this is the reason why we're getting married.
Or I want the tax break that comes with getting married. There's a tax break? There's a significant tax break. Yeah, yeah, on federal and state. You get your different dependency exemptions. You get different schedules of how much you have to make to pay at a different time. Oh, yeah, there's a whole bunch of purely financial reasons to get married.
Or I want the tax break that comes with getting married. There's a tax break? There's a significant tax break. Yeah, yeah, on federal and state. You get your different dependency exemptions. You get different schedules of how much you have to make to pay at a different time. Oh, yeah, there's a whole bunch of purely financial reasons to get married.
Or I want the tax break that comes with getting married. There's a tax break? There's a significant tax break. Yeah, yeah, on federal and state. You get your different dependency exemptions. You get different schedules of how much you have to make to pay at a different time. Oh, yeah, there's a whole bunch of purely financial reasons to get married.
Like, again, with a prenup, you can take away the risk but still have all those benefits. You can file married joint returns. You have all kinds of inheritance rights if you want them. Like, there's all kinds of potential perks to getting married, right? There's also certain cultural legitimacy. Like, again, nother
Like, again, with a prenup, you can take away the risk but still have all those benefits. You can file married joint returns. You have all kinds of inheritance rights if you want them. Like, there's all kinds of potential perks to getting married, right? There's also certain cultural legitimacy. Like, again, nother
Like, again, with a prenup, you can take away the risk but still have all those benefits. You can file married joint returns. You have all kinds of inheritance rights if you want them. Like, there's all kinds of potential perks to getting married, right? There's also certain cultural legitimacy. Like, again, nother
And it's always astounding to me because I've reached a level in my career, thankfully, where I represent elite athletes. I represent, you know, people in the financial markets who literally move markets with their trades, people in the entertainment industry. And they are as bad at this as any of us. Like they're as bad at relationships. They're as bad at heartbreak as anybody.
And it's always astounding to me because I've reached a level in my career, thankfully, where I represent elite athletes. I represent, you know, people in the financial markets who literally move markets with their trades, people in the entertainment industry. And they are as bad at this as any of us. Like they're as bad at relationships. They're as bad at heartbreak as anybody.
And it's always astounding to me because I've reached a level in my career, thankfully, where I represent elite athletes. I represent, you know, people in the financial markets who literally move markets with their trades, people in the entertainment industry. And they are as bad at this as any of us. Like they're as bad at relationships. They're as bad at heartbreak as anybody.
That's a fallacy. That's insane, right? Just because we went and did, like, 20 bucks, Elvis will marry you in Vegas. And you're telling me that that gives more legitimacy than someone who's got two children with someone who's lived with them for 10 years but just didn't get the government involved? Like, that doesn't make any sense to me.
That's a fallacy. That's insane, right? Just because we went and did, like, 20 bucks, Elvis will marry you in Vegas. And you're telling me that that gives more legitimacy than someone who's got two children with someone who's lived with them for 10 years but just didn't get the government involved? Like, that doesn't make any sense to me.
That's a fallacy. That's insane, right? Just because we went and did, like, 20 bucks, Elvis will marry you in Vegas. And you're telling me that that gives more legitimacy than someone who's got two children with someone who's lived with them for 10 years but just didn't get the government involved? Like, that doesn't make any sense to me.
But we've decided it's like, presto change-o, you're married. That means now you're a totally legitimate relationship.
But we've decided it's like, presto change-o, you're married. That means now you're a totally legitimate relationship.
But we've decided it's like, presto change-o, you're married. That means now you're a totally legitimate relationship.
Yeah. See, I want to hear that a lot. And, you know, what if we closed emergency rooms from 10 p.m. until like 5 a.m.? Do you think people would do less risky shit? Do you think people would go like, hey, you know what? If I break my leg skateboarding, sorry to pick on skateboarding.
Yeah. See, I want to hear that a lot. And, you know, what if we closed emergency rooms from 10 p.m. until like 5 a.m.? Do you think people would do less risky shit? Do you think people would go like, hey, you know what? If I break my leg skateboarding, sorry to pick on skateboarding.
Yeah. See, I want to hear that a lot. And, you know, what if we closed emergency rooms from 10 p.m. until like 5 a.m.? Do you think people would do less risky shit? Do you think people would go like, hey, you know what? If I break my leg skateboarding, sorry to pick on skateboarding.
If the ER is closed, I won't be like, that's insane to think that people in this dopamine state, you know, intoxicated by pheromones that they're going to say like, oh, you know, like we are legally married. I might have to guess it's like it's the numbers don't bear it out. Like with the divorce rate, what it is, it doesn't work. You want to create barriers, create barriers to entry.
If the ER is closed, I won't be like, that's insane to think that people in this dopamine state, you know, intoxicated by pheromones that they're going to say like, oh, you know, like we are legally married. I might have to guess it's like it's the numbers don't bear it out. Like with the divorce rate, what it is, it doesn't work. You want to create barriers, create barriers to entry.
If the ER is closed, I won't be like, that's insane to think that people in this dopamine state, you know, intoxicated by pheromones that they're going to say like, oh, you know, like we are legally married. I might have to guess it's like it's the numbers don't bear it out. Like with the divorce rate, what it is, it doesn't work. You want to create barriers, create barriers to entry.
Like, how bad do you want it? Like, how bad do you want to get married? There's a waiting period. Or you have to take a test. Or you have to whatever, something, some barrier to entry. You have to pay some amount of money to get married. I don't know. Create barriers. If you believe in the barrier concept, barriers to exit makes no sense. Barriers to entry might make sense.
Like, how bad do you want it? Like, how bad do you want to get married? There's a waiting period. Or you have to take a test. Or you have to whatever, something, some barrier to entry. You have to pay some amount of money to get married. I don't know. Create barriers. If you believe in the barrier concept, barriers to exit makes no sense. Barriers to entry might make sense.
Like, how bad do you want it? Like, how bad do you want to get married? There's a waiting period. Or you have to take a test. Or you have to whatever, something, some barrier to entry. You have to pay some amount of money to get married. I don't know. Create barriers. If you believe in the barrier concept, barriers to exit makes no sense. Barriers to entry might make sense.
Again, still don't think it would make that much sense. But to tie it back to the prenup question, so the first question is, Why are you getting married? Okay, what's the purpose? What is the problem to which marriage is a solution? The next question is, okay, if we marry without a prenup, what will govern our relationship in the event that it doesn't end in death?
Again, still don't think it would make that much sense. But to tie it back to the prenup question, so the first question is, Why are you getting married? Okay, what's the purpose? What is the problem to which marriage is a solution? The next question is, okay, if we marry without a prenup, what will govern our relationship in the event that it doesn't end in death?
Again, still don't think it would make that much sense. But to tie it back to the prenup question, so the first question is, Why are you getting married? Okay, what's the purpose? What is the problem to which marriage is a solution? The next question is, okay, if we marry without a prenup, what will govern our relationship in the event that it doesn't end in death?
So if it ends by some other reason, either I divorce you, you divorce me, we come to the joint decision that this isn't working, some intervening circumstance occurs that changes the dynamic between us in a way that we couldn't possibly have anticipated, whatever that might be, a medical issue, something with a child. I've had cases where... And these are tragic cases.
So if it ends by some other reason, either I divorce you, you divorce me, we come to the joint decision that this isn't working, some intervening circumstance occurs that changes the dynamic between us in a way that we couldn't possibly have anticipated, whatever that might be, a medical issue, something with a child. I've had cases where... And these are tragic cases.
So if it ends by some other reason, either I divorce you, you divorce me, we come to the joint decision that this isn't working, some intervening circumstance occurs that changes the dynamic between us in a way that we couldn't possibly have anticipated, whatever that might be, a medical issue, something with a child. I've had cases where... And these are tragic cases.
But I've had maybe in a 25-year career, I've maybe had a dozen cases where people lost a child by usually some kind of tragic accident. So kid falls in the pool, drowns, and they cannot be together anymore. Like they are a reminder to the other person of this immeasurable loss that they can't wrap their brains around. And so they lose each other. And it's not anyone's fault.
But I've had maybe in a 25-year career, I've maybe had a dozen cases where people lost a child by usually some kind of tragic accident. So kid falls in the pool, drowns, and they cannot be together anymore. Like they are a reminder to the other person of this immeasurable loss that they can't wrap their brains around. And so they lose each other. And it's not anyone's fault.
But I've had maybe in a 25-year career, I've maybe had a dozen cases where people lost a child by usually some kind of tragic accident. So kid falls in the pool, drowns, and they cannot be together anymore. Like they are a reminder to the other person of this immeasurable loss that they can't wrap their brains around. And so they lose each other. And it's not anyone's fault.
Like it's not either of their fault that this horrible tragedy occurred. It's just too painful. But it's just too painful. Like they just remind each other of this loss. They can't ever extricate that from their feelings. Now – I don't look at that person and go, you should never get divorced. Dude, who am I to say to that person, no, no, continue to feel that torturous pain.
Like it's not either of their fault that this horrible tragedy occurred. It's just too painful. But it's just too painful. Like they just remind each other of this loss. They can't ever extricate that from their feelings. Now – I don't look at that person and go, you should never get divorced. Dude, who am I to say to that person, no, no, continue to feel that torturous pain.
Like it's not either of their fault that this horrible tragedy occurred. It's just too painful. But it's just too painful. Like they just remind each other of this loss. They can't ever extricate that from their feelings. Now – I don't look at that person and go, you should never get divorced. Dude, who am I to say to that person, no, no, continue to feel that torturous pain.
Or, oh, go to therapy and that'll get rid of that. Like, it's not that simple. So if that person has been through that exquisite, unique kind of torture, that person says, yeah, we just can't do that. Like we love each other, but we just can't. Like we have to start over and reboot our lives separately so that we have no memory of that anymore or as few reminders as possible.
Or, oh, go to therapy and that'll get rid of that. Like, it's not that simple. So if that person has been through that exquisite, unique kind of torture, that person says, yeah, we just can't do that. Like we love each other, but we just can't. Like we have to start over and reboot our lives separately so that we have no memory of that anymore or as few reminders as possible.
Or, oh, go to therapy and that'll get rid of that. Like, it's not that simple. So if that person has been through that exquisite, unique kind of torture, that person says, yeah, we just can't do that. Like we love each other, but we just can't. Like we have to start over and reboot our lives separately so that we have no memory of that anymore or as few reminders as possible.
I have nothing I can say to that except that's not a choice I could tell you is wrong. I don't have the right to tell you that. So there are circumstances that can end a marriage that were not anticipated by or caused by either person's malfeasance, right? So, okay, now what, right? So if we know in the absence of a rule set, in the absence of a prenup, what happens if we divorce?
I have nothing I can say to that except that's not a choice I could tell you is wrong. I don't have the right to tell you that. So there are circumstances that can end a marriage that were not anticipated by or caused by either person's malfeasance, right? So, okay, now what, right? So if we know in the absence of a rule set, in the absence of a prenup, what happens if we divorce?
I have nothing I can say to that except that's not a choice I could tell you is wrong. I don't have the right to tell you that. So there are circumstances that can end a marriage that were not anticipated by or caused by either person's malfeasance, right? So, okay, now what, right? So if we know in the absence of a rule set, in the absence of a prenup, what happens if we divorce?
So, you know, there were differences in the gender piece. There are differences in the socioeconomic piece. But at the end of the day, it's like it's hurt people hurting people. And it kind of looks roughly the same.
So, you know, there were differences in the gender piece. There are differences in the socioeconomic piece. But at the end of the day, it's like it's hurt people hurting people. And it kind of looks roughly the same.
So, you know, there were differences in the gender piece. There are differences in the socioeconomic piece. But at the end of the day, it's like it's hurt people hurting people. And it kind of looks roughly the same.
Well, most people never even get to that step. Like most people never, when they get married, they never sit down with anyone and go, what's legally going to happen to me right now? Like what just changed? You know, like what, like you buy a house, you get a HUD one that tells you the nature of the loan and how much you're paying in interest so that nobody can like claim they didn't know that.
Well, most people never even get to that step. Like most people never, when they get married, they never sit down with anyone and go, what's legally going to happen to me right now? Like what just changed? You know, like what, like you buy a house, you get a HUD one that tells you the nature of the loan and how much you're paying in interest so that nobody can like claim they didn't know that.
Well, most people never even get to that step. Like most people never, when they get married, they never sit down with anyone and go, what's legally going to happen to me right now? Like what just changed? You know, like what, like you buy a house, you get a HUD one that tells you the nature of the loan and how much you're paying in interest so that nobody can like claim they didn't know that.
You get a lead paint disclosure. You get all kinds of things. You get married, you can get a pamphlet. You just did the most legally significant thing you're ever going to do other than dying. And no one told you anything about what just happened. So you've opted out of the title system. So like right now, if you and I buy a house together, right, title controls, whose name is it saying?
You get a lead paint disclosure. You get all kinds of things. You get married, you can get a pamphlet. You just did the most legally significant thing you're ever going to do other than dying. And no one told you anything about what just happened. So you've opted out of the title system. So like right now, if you and I buy a house together, right, title controls, whose name is it saying?
You get a lead paint disclosure. You get all kinds of things. You get married, you can get a pamphlet. You just did the most legally significant thing you're ever going to do other than dying. And no one told you anything about what just happened. So you've opted out of the title system. So like right now, if you and I buy a house together, right, title controls, whose name is it saying?
If it's in your name, it's yours. If it's in my name, it's mine. If it's in our joint names, we own it 50-50 unless there's a contract that says otherwise, right? So there are defaults in the absence of a contract. There are legal defaults. Again, lawyers make a ton of money. over people's aversion to contracts. Like, it's great.
If it's in your name, it's yours. If it's in my name, it's mine. If it's in our joint names, we own it 50-50 unless there's a contract that says otherwise, right? So there are defaults in the absence of a contract. There are legal defaults. Again, lawyers make a ton of money. over people's aversion to contracts. Like, it's great.
If it's in your name, it's yours. If it's in my name, it's mine. If it's in our joint names, we own it 50-50 unless there's a contract that says otherwise, right? So there are defaults in the absence of a contract. There are legal defaults. Again, lawyers make a ton of money. over people's aversion to contracts. Like, it's great.
Like, the worst thing, when I got involved in Trusted Prenup and I told people, oh, I'm doing this thing, I want to democratize prenups, all my colleagues were like, are you nuts? Like, A, prenups are the easiest thing we do. And we make pure profit on them. We can charge five, $10,000 for basically a document that you go into word and change the names. And it's the same one for a lot of people.
Like, the worst thing, when I got involved in Trusted Prenup and I told people, oh, I'm doing this thing, I want to democratize prenups, all my colleagues were like, are you nuts? Like, A, prenups are the easiest thing we do. And we make pure profit on them. We can charge five, $10,000 for basically a document that you go into word and change the names. And it's the same one for a lot of people.
Like, the worst thing, when I got involved in Trusted Prenup and I told people, oh, I'm doing this thing, I want to democratize prenups, all my colleagues were like, are you nuts? Like, A, prenups are the easiest thing we do. And we make pure profit on them. We can charge five, $10,000 for basically a document that you go into word and change the names. And it's the same one for a lot of people.
Okay. Or we've done so many of them that we just go, this is just like that one. And you just change the name and here it is. And I can charge you five, $10,000 for it. And if it's successful, I'm taking hundreds of thousands of dollars in council fees out of my pocket because now you're not going to have a litigated divorce.
Okay. Or we've done so many of them that we just go, this is just like that one. And you just change the name and here it is. And I can charge you five, $10,000 for it. And if it's successful, I'm taking hundreds of thousands of dollars in council fees out of my pocket because now you're not going to have a litigated divorce.
Okay. Or we've done so many of them that we just go, this is just like that one. And you just change the name and here it is. And I can charge you five, $10,000 for it. And if it's successful, I'm taking hundreds of thousands of dollars in council fees out of my pocket because now you're not going to have a litigated divorce.
It's not going to be a knockdown drag out with whatever the government's current way of handling things happens to be, which, by the way, is going to be different five years from now than it was five years ago. I know that because I've been doing this 25 years and the law is completely different than it was 25 years ago, 10 years ago, 15 years ago.
It's not going to be a knockdown drag out with whatever the government's current way of handling things happens to be, which, by the way, is going to be different five years from now than it was five years ago. I know that because I've been doing this 25 years and the law is completely different than it was 25 years ago, 10 years ago, 15 years ago.
It's not going to be a knockdown drag out with whatever the government's current way of handling things happens to be, which, by the way, is going to be different five years from now than it was five years ago. I know that because I've been doing this 25 years and the law is completely different than it was 25 years ago, 10 years ago, 15 years ago.
It changes constantly because politicians change constantly. So fundamentally. what happens with a prenup is simple. We're creating a rule set together, whatever that might be. And it can be as detailed as you want it to be. So I've seen ones that have very specific things about how often we're going to have sex. And if we split up, what will happen with-
It changes constantly because politicians change constantly. So fundamentally. what happens with a prenup is simple. We're creating a rule set together, whatever that might be. And it can be as detailed as you want it to be. So I've seen ones that have very specific things about how often we're going to have sex. And if we split up, what will happen with-
It changes constantly because politicians change constantly. So fundamentally. what happens with a prenup is simple. We're creating a rule set together, whatever that might be. And it can be as detailed as you want it to be. So I've seen ones that have very specific things about how often we're going to have sex. And if we split up, what will happen with-
Well, what they are is either aspirational guidelines or it is tied in some way to some incentive or disincentive. You're kidding me. Like some penalty. Oh, yeah. You're kidding me. I'm not kidding you. I don't advocate for that. I don't think it's a good idea. But, I mean, the story I tell pretty frequently is I did a prenup defense.
Well, what they are is either aspirational guidelines or it is tied in some way to some incentive or disincentive. You're kidding me. Like some penalty. Oh, yeah. You're kidding me. I'm not kidding you. I don't advocate for that. I don't think it's a good idea. But, I mean, the story I tell pretty frequently is I did a prenup defense.
Well, what they are is either aspirational guidelines or it is tied in some way to some incentive or disincentive. You're kidding me. Like some penalty. Oh, yeah. You're kidding me. I'm not kidding you. I don't advocate for that. I don't think it's a good idea. But, I mean, the story I tell pretty frequently is I did a prenup defense.
Where I didn't write the prenup, so don't blame me, but I defended the prenup successfully. Where for every 10 pounds the bride gained, she would lose $10,000 a month in alimony when they split up. You're kidding. Yeah, and a court upheld it. The court in its decision actually said, this is boorish. This is disgusting.
Where I didn't write the prenup, so don't blame me, but I defended the prenup successfully. Where for every 10 pounds the bride gained, she would lose $10,000 a month in alimony when they split up. You're kidding. Yeah, and a court upheld it. The court in its decision actually said, this is boorish. This is disgusting.
Where I didn't write the prenup, so don't blame me, but I defended the prenup successfully. Where for every 10 pounds the bride gained, she would lose $10,000 a month in alimony when they split up. You're kidding. Yeah, and a court upheld it. The court in its decision actually said, this is boorish. This is disgusting.
I don't know why you married this person who insisted on this being in the contract, but it's a contract. You signed it. He signed it. You're adults. You were both represented by counsel. And it's enforceable. Whoa. Yeah. Did the marriage last? No, no, they divorced. Yeah, they divorced. And she lost $20,000 a month in alimony. She gained around 20 pounds during the marriage.
I don't know why you married this person who insisted on this being in the contract, but it's a contract. You signed it. He signed it. You're adults. You were both represented by counsel. And it's enforceable. Whoa. Yeah. Did the marriage last? No, no, they divorced. Yeah, they divorced. And she lost $20,000 a month in alimony. She gained around 20 pounds during the marriage.
I don't know why you married this person who insisted on this being in the contract, but it's a contract. You signed it. He signed it. You're adults. You were both represented by counsel. And it's enforceable. Whoa. Yeah. Did the marriage last? No, no, they divorced. Yeah, they divorced. And she lost $20,000 a month in alimony. She gained around 20 pounds during the marriage.
Do you think that was the factor? Well, he was rich and she was gorgeous. I mean, you know, and he got richer and she got less gorgeous.
Do you think that was the factor? Well, he was rich and she was gorgeous. I mean, you know, and he got richer and she got less gorgeous.
Do you think that was the factor? Well, he was rich and she was gorgeous. I mean, you know, and he got richer and she got less gorgeous.
And that's, by the way, it's gender blind too. Like the C-suite executive founder that you're talking about, like female founder. Yeah. They very often don't marry. I know like some people in the red pill community want to say like a pergamy and stuff like that, that like C-suite women only marry like even more successful men than that.
And that's, by the way, it's gender blind too. Like the C-suite executive founder that you're talking about, like female founder. Yeah. They very often don't marry. I know like some people in the red pill community want to say like a pergamy and stuff like that, that like C-suite women only marry like even more successful men than that.
And that's, by the way, it's gender blind too. Like the C-suite executive founder that you're talking about, like female founder. Yeah. They very often don't marry. I know like some people in the red pill community want to say like a pergamy and stuff like that, that like C-suite women only marry like even more successful men than that.
I have a lot of female clients who I have to tell them they owe alimony. And they're like, wait, why do I have to pay? I'm a woman. He's a man. He's got a strong back. Why do I have to pay alimony?
I have a lot of female clients who I have to tell them they owe alimony. And they're like, wait, why do I have to pay? I'm a woman. He's a man. He's got a strong back. Why do I have to pay alimony?
I have a lot of female clients who I have to tell them they owe alimony. And they're like, wait, why do I have to pay? I'm a woman. He's a man. He's got a strong back. Why do I have to pay alimony?
I'm like, because you are a C-suite executive who makes millions and you married the like super hot, unsuccessful musician who has the like, oops, I didn't know I was sexy stubble because he looks really good. Like, and that's, you married the equivalent of me marrying like the hot yoga teacher. Like, I get it. Like, but you know, you did the thing and- Gender has nothing to do with it.
I'm like, because you are a C-suite executive who makes millions and you married the like super hot, unsuccessful musician who has the like, oops, I didn't know I was sexy stubble because he looks really good. Like, and that's, you married the equivalent of me marrying like the hot yoga teacher. Like, I get it. Like, but you know, you did the thing and- Gender has nothing to do with it.
I'm like, because you are a C-suite executive who makes millions and you married the like super hot, unsuccessful musician who has the like, oops, I didn't know I was sexy stubble because he looks really good. Like, and that's, you married the equivalent of me marrying like the hot yoga teacher. Like, I get it. Like, but you know, you did the thing and- Gender has nothing to do with it.
I feel like I have a PhD in infidelity because it's just – it's part of like 90 plus percent of divorces.
I feel like I have a PhD in infidelity because it's just – it's part of like 90 plus percent of divorces.
I feel like I have a PhD in infidelity because it's just – it's part of like 90 plus percent of divorces.
If you marry someone who earns significantly less money than you do and they have a diminished lifetime earning capacity, then you owe them alimony most likely.
If you marry someone who earns significantly less money than you do and they have a diminished lifetime earning capacity, then you owe them alimony most likely.
If you marry someone who earns significantly less money than you do and they have a diminished lifetime earning capacity, then you owe them alimony most likely.
Generally, yeah. There's a presumption that equitable distribution, equitable meaning fair, is really the law. But equitable is presumed to mean equal. There are some reasons and some circumstances where equitable does not mean equal.
Generally, yeah. There's a presumption that equitable distribution, equitable meaning fair, is really the law. But equitable is presumed to mean equal. There are some reasons and some circumstances where equitable does not mean equal.
Generally, yeah. There's a presumption that equitable distribution, equitable meaning fair, is really the law. But equitable is presumed to mean equal. There are some reasons and some circumstances where equitable does not mean equal.
There can be things called wasteful dissipation of marital assets where a person has squandered money that should have stayed in the marital estate, gambling, having a paramour, a girlfriend or a boyfriend. But again, like to tie it back to prenups, what you're doing with a prenup as a fundamental is just saying, okay, there's yours, there's mine, and there's ours, right?
There can be things called wasteful dissipation of marital assets where a person has squandered money that should have stayed in the marital estate, gambling, having a paramour, a girlfriend or a boyfriend. But again, like to tie it back to prenups, what you're doing with a prenup as a fundamental is just saying, okay, there's yours, there's mine, and there's ours, right?
There can be things called wasteful dissipation of marital assets where a person has squandered money that should have stayed in the marital estate, gambling, having a paramour, a girlfriend or a boyfriend. But again, like to tie it back to prenups, what you're doing with a prenup as a fundamental is just saying, okay, there's yours, there's mine, and there's ours, right?
Like in terms of assets and liabilities, which by the way, I think is an excellent analog to the nature of relationships themselves, right? There's you, there's me, and there's we, right? And a healthy relationship There's still you, there's still me, and then there's this Venn diagram of we, right? And of course, you don't want you and me to be subsumed by the we because I fell in love with you.
Like in terms of assets and liabilities, which by the way, I think is an excellent analog to the nature of relationships themselves, right? There's you, there's me, and there's we, right? And a healthy relationship There's still you, there's still me, and then there's this Venn diagram of we, right? And of course, you don't want you and me to be subsumed by the we because I fell in love with you.
Like in terms of assets and liabilities, which by the way, I think is an excellent analog to the nature of relationships themselves, right? There's you, there's me, and there's we, right? And a healthy relationship There's still you, there's still me, and then there's this Venn diagram of we, right? And of course, you don't want you and me to be subsumed by the we because I fell in love with you.
In some form, yeah. Really? Well, it's why people I think – You know, mistake correlation for causation. I mean, people all the time are like, you know, why are you getting divorced? Because he's sleeping with his secretary. And it's like, oh, that's a pretty good reason to get divorced. But, you know, then when you scratch the surface, you're like, okay, but why is he sleeping with his secretary?
In some form, yeah. Really? Well, it's why people I think – You know, mistake correlation for causation. I mean, people all the time are like, you know, why are you getting divorced? Because he's sleeping with his secretary. And it's like, oh, that's a pretty good reason to get divorced. But, you know, then when you scratch the surface, you're like, okay, but why is he sleeping with his secretary?
In some form, yeah. Really? Well, it's why people I think – You know, mistake correlation for causation. I mean, people all the time are like, you know, why are you getting divorced? Because he's sleeping with his secretary. And it's like, oh, that's a pretty good reason to get divorced. But, you know, then when you scratch the surface, you're like, okay, but why is he sleeping with his secretary?
You fell in love with me. Why would we want those to go away completely? But, of course, the we is like, you know, it's intoxicating and you want to become the we more. But there's value in staying you and me and having a healthy we, having a healthy, you know, intersection there. So why not in your structure of the marriage have, OK, yours, mine and ours?
You fell in love with me. Why would we want those to go away completely? But, of course, the we is like, you know, it's intoxicating and you want to become the we more. But there's value in staying you and me and having a healthy we, having a healthy, you know, intersection there. So why not in your structure of the marriage have, OK, yours, mine and ours?
You fell in love with me. Why would we want those to go away completely? But, of course, the we is like, you know, it's intoxicating and you want to become the we more. But there's value in staying you and me and having a healthy we, having a healthy, you know, intersection there. So why not in your structure of the marriage have, OK, yours, mine and ours?
So at a fundamental level, if you're gonna have a basic prenuptial agreement, it's just gonna say, hey, we're staying in that system. You, me, we, right? Yours, mine, ours. If it's yours, you keep it, asset or liability. If it's in mine, I keep it, asset or liability. If it's ours, we divide it 50-50. Fair enough? And now we're going into this relationship with knowing the rule set.
So at a fundamental level, if you're gonna have a basic prenuptial agreement, it's just gonna say, hey, we're staying in that system. You, me, we, right? Yours, mine, ours. If it's yours, you keep it, asset or liability. If it's in mine, I keep it, asset or liability. If it's ours, we divide it 50-50. Fair enough? And now we're going into this relationship with knowing the rule set.
So at a fundamental level, if you're gonna have a basic prenuptial agreement, it's just gonna say, hey, we're staying in that system. You, me, we, right? Yours, mine, ours. If it's yours, you keep it, asset or liability. If it's in mine, I keep it, asset or liability. If it's ours, we divide it 50-50. Fair enough? And now we're going into this relationship with knowing the rule set.
So I get a big bonus at work, okay? If I put it in my account, in my sole name, I've protected it. We also need to have a conversation. Hey, babe, you just got that big bonus at work and you didn't put any of it in the joint account? Like, what's that about? Something going on that we need to talk about? Like, and again, I understand people don't want to have uncomfortable conversations.
So I get a big bonus at work, okay? If I put it in my account, in my sole name, I've protected it. We also need to have a conversation. Hey, babe, you just got that big bonus at work and you didn't put any of it in the joint account? Like, what's that about? Something going on that we need to talk about? Like, and again, I understand people don't want to have uncomfortable conversations.
So I get a big bonus at work, okay? If I put it in my account, in my sole name, I've protected it. We also need to have a conversation. Hey, babe, you just got that big bonus at work and you didn't put any of it in the joint account? Like, what's that about? Something going on that we need to talk about? Like, and again, I understand people don't want to have uncomfortable conversations.
Well, you can have like a series of mildly uncomfortable conversations throughout the course of a relationship. Or you can duck that and then have some really difficult conversations in divorce court. And to me, that's pretty easy, like which of those two things I'd choose.
Well, you can have like a series of mildly uncomfortable conversations throughout the course of a relationship. Or you can duck that and then have some really difficult conversations in divorce court. And to me, that's pretty easy, like which of those two things I'd choose.
Well, you can have like a series of mildly uncomfortable conversations throughout the course of a relationship. Or you can duck that and then have some really difficult conversations in divorce court. And to me, that's pretty easy, like which of those two things I'd choose.
So at its core, a prenuptial agreement can cover as many – like people put in infidelity clauses where there are financial penalties if someone cheats. Again, I discourage it. Financial penalties. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Liquidated damages, whether it's a lump sum or a waiver of alimony if you're caught cheating.
So at its core, a prenuptial agreement can cover as many – like people put in infidelity clauses where there are financial penalties if someone cheats. Again, I discourage it. Financial penalties. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Liquidated damages, whether it's a lump sum or a waiver of alimony if you're caught cheating.
So at its core, a prenuptial agreement can cover as many – like people put in infidelity clauses where there are financial penalties if someone cheats. Again, I discourage it. Financial penalties. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Liquidated damages, whether it's a lump sum or a waiver of alimony if you're caught cheating.
I mean it used to be the law of the land that if you could prove adultery, a person – at that point typically women because the workforce was predominantly male at that time. If you could catch, that's why like the picture of a divorce lawyer with a private investigator with a telephoto lens taking pictures of someone coming out of the hotel. It's like in everyone's mind forever.
I mean it used to be the law of the land that if you could prove adultery, a person – at that point typically women because the workforce was predominantly male at that time. If you could catch, that's why like the picture of a divorce lawyer with a private investigator with a telephoto lens taking pictures of someone coming out of the hotel. It's like in everyone's mind forever.
I mean it used to be the law of the land that if you could prove adultery, a person – at that point typically women because the workforce was predominantly male at that time. If you could catch, that's why like the picture of a divorce lawyer with a private investigator with a telephoto lens taking pictures of someone coming out of the hotel. It's like in everyone's mind forever.
Because, and by the way, people still come in to my office and they're like, I've got him. I've got photos of him coming out of this hotel with his girlfriend. I'm like, okay. Like. You know there's no like good spouse bonus and bad spouse penalty, right? Like you don't get like extra stuff because you were a super good spouse who never cheated. And you don't lose stuff because you cheated.
Because, and by the way, people still come in to my office and they're like, I've got him. I've got photos of him coming out of this hotel with his girlfriend. I'm like, okay. Like. You know there's no like good spouse bonus and bad spouse penalty, right? Like you don't get like extra stuff because you were a super good spouse who never cheated. And you don't lose stuff because you cheated.
Because, and by the way, people still come in to my office and they're like, I've got him. I've got photos of him coming out of this hotel with his girlfriend. I'm like, okay. Like. You know there's no like good spouse bonus and bad spouse penalty, right? Like you don't get like extra stuff because you were a super good spouse who never cheated. And you don't lose stuff because you cheated.
Like other than maybe the marriage, you don't lose – like you don't get anything less. It's not like you don't get – it used to be if you could prove adultery – you waived alimony. So if this person cheated, they weren't allowed to ask for alimony. That was abolished in the 1970s by statute. So it's gone now. It's not a thing anymore.
Like other than maybe the marriage, you don't lose – like you don't get anything less. It's not like you don't get – it used to be if you could prove adultery – you waived alimony. So if this person cheated, they weren't allowed to ask for alimony. That was abolished in the 1970s by statute. So it's gone now. It's not a thing anymore.
Like other than maybe the marriage, you don't lose – like you don't get anything less. It's not like you don't get – it used to be if you could prove adultery – you waived alimony. So if this person cheated, they weren't allowed to ask for alimony. That was abolished in the 1970s by statute. So it's gone now. It's not a thing anymore.
Again, according to the law as it stands, which has changed dramatically over 25 years and varies state to state. Whereas with a prenuptial agreement, you're agreeing on a rule set. And again, if people want to agree to weird clauses... Like infidelity penalties and things like that. You can do that. And lawyers, we can draft stuff like that. Who gets the dog? No problem.
Again, according to the law as it stands, which has changed dramatically over 25 years and varies state to state. Whereas with a prenuptial agreement, you're agreeing on a rule set. And again, if people want to agree to weird clauses... Like infidelity penalties and things like that. You can do that. And lawyers, we can draft stuff like that. Who gets the dog? No problem.
Again, according to the law as it stands, which has changed dramatically over 25 years and varies state to state. Whereas with a prenuptial agreement, you're agreeing on a rule set. And again, if people want to agree to weird clauses... Like infidelity penalties and things like that. You can do that. And lawyers, we can draft stuff like that. Who gets the dog? No problem.
And there's almost always this very deep backstory of like, well, we stopped sleeping together. Why did we stop sleeping? Well, because he's unkind to me. Well, why is he unkind to you? Well, because you're totally indifferent to me. Right. And you start to go, okay, the truth's at the bottom of a bottomless pit and we're never going to get there.
And there's almost always this very deep backstory of like, well, we stopped sleeping together. Why did we stop sleeping? Well, because he's unkind to me. Well, why is he unkind to you? Well, because you're totally indifferent to me. Right. And you start to go, okay, the truth's at the bottom of a bottomless pit and we're never going to get there.
And there's almost always this very deep backstory of like, well, we stopped sleeping together. Why did we stop sleeping? Well, because he's unkind to me. Well, why is he unkind to you? Well, because you're totally indifferent to me. Right. And you start to go, okay, the truth's at the bottom of a bottomless pit and we're never going to get there.
Who gets the – listen, pet clauses, the level of – it was very funny because when the team had trusted prenup, I was the legal advisor piece of it, obviously. And so I was really feeding them so they could feed to this AI kind of all of these prenups I had done. And Ben, who's our tech guy, he lives in Australia.
Who gets the – listen, pet clauses, the level of – it was very funny because when the team had trusted prenup, I was the legal advisor piece of it, obviously. And so I was really feeding them so they could feed to this AI kind of all of these prenups I had done. And Ben, who's our tech guy, he lives in Australia.
Who gets the – listen, pet clauses, the level of – it was very funny because when the team had trusted prenup, I was the legal advisor piece of it, obviously. And so I was really feeding them so they could feed to this AI kind of all of these prenups I had done. And Ben, who's our tech guy, he lives in Australia.
He called me up and he was like, you do know like the pet clauses are actually the most complicated and diverse out of all of the things. I believe it. I said, yeah, do you have pets? I said, because I'll tell you right now, because there are people that go so hard in the paint on pet stuff, like that it's like they have custody rotation schedules for the pets.
He called me up and he was like, you do know like the pet clauses are actually the most complicated and diverse out of all of the things. I believe it. I said, yeah, do you have pets? I said, because I'll tell you right now, because there are people that go so hard in the paint on pet stuff, like that it's like they have custody rotation schedules for the pets.
He called me up and he was like, you do know like the pet clauses are actually the most complicated and diverse out of all of the things. I believe it. I said, yeah, do you have pets? I said, because I'll tell you right now, because there are people that go so hard in the paint on pet stuff, like that it's like they have custody rotation schedules for the pets.
They have clauses about what to do if there's a conflict about veterinary decisions. And unlike children, you are most likely going to outlive your pet. And so you have to have clauses in for if this pet has to be euthanized, can we both be there? What do we do with the cremated remains of this pet?
They have clauses about what to do if there's a conflict about veterinary decisions. And unlike children, you are most likely going to outlive your pet. And so you have to have clauses in for if this pet has to be euthanized, can we both be there? What do we do with the cremated remains of this pet?
They have clauses about what to do if there's a conflict about veterinary decisions. And unlike children, you are most likely going to outlive your pet. And so you have to have clauses in for if this pet has to be euthanized, can we both be there? What do we do with the cremated remains of this pet?
You know, if we can't agree on a park or whatever that it's going to be sprinkled at, should we each get half and then we can do what we want with it? Like, these are things that, again, have that conversation. Because here's the thing. If we have that conversation when we are now angry at each other and breaking up, right? When hell hath no fury like a woman or a man scorned.
You know, if we can't agree on a park or whatever that it's going to be sprinkled at, should we each get half and then we can do what we want with it? Like, these are things that, again, have that conversation. Because here's the thing. If we have that conversation when we are now angry at each other and breaking up, right? When hell hath no fury like a woman or a man scorned.
You know, if we can't agree on a park or whatever that it's going to be sprinkled at, should we each get half and then we can do what we want with it? Like, these are things that, again, have that conversation. Because here's the thing. If we have that conversation when we are now angry at each other and breaking up, right? When hell hath no fury like a woman or a man scorned.
Do you think the answer is going to be a compassionate and thoughtful one that honors the relationship we both had with this companion animal? No. It's going to be, I'm keeping the ashes. Why? Because fuck you, that's why. Like that's the answer.
Do you think the answer is going to be a compassionate and thoughtful one that honors the relationship we both had with this companion animal? No. It's going to be, I'm keeping the ashes. Why? Because fuck you, that's why. Like that's the answer.
Do you think the answer is going to be a compassionate and thoughtful one that honors the relationship we both had with this companion animal? No. It's going to be, I'm keeping the ashes. Why? Because fuck you, that's why. Like that's the answer.
Like I've had people explicitly say – I had a case a couple weeks ago where we went in and had like – it was supposed to be a four-way discussion, but I was doing like shuttle stuff. So I'm talking to the wife and her counsel, and I've got my client in another conference room. And these people own like 12 properties, like really high net worth case.
Like I've had people explicitly say – I had a case a couple weeks ago where we went in and had like – it was supposed to be a four-way discussion, but I was doing like shuttle stuff. So I'm talking to the wife and her counsel, and I've got my client in another conference room. And these people own like 12 properties, like really high net worth case.
Like I've had people explicitly say – I had a case a couple weeks ago where we went in and had like – it was supposed to be a four-way discussion, but I was doing like shuttle stuff. So I'm talking to the wife and her counsel, and I've got my client in another conference room. And these people own like 12 properties, like really high net worth case.
And I said, look, which of these properties do you want to keep? And she was like, well, which ones does he want? And I said, well, why does that matter? Why don't you tell me? And she's like, well, because I want to know which ones he wants. And I said, right, but why? And she's like, because whichever one he wants, I want those. Wow.
And I said, look, which of these properties do you want to keep? And she was like, well, which ones does he want? And I said, well, why does that matter? Why don't you tell me? And she's like, well, because I want to know which ones he wants. And I said, right, but why? And she's like, because whichever one he wants, I want those. Wow.
And I said, look, which of these properties do you want to keep? And she was like, well, which ones does he want? And I said, well, why does that matter? Why don't you tell me? And she's like, well, because I want to know which ones he wants. And I said, right, but why? And she's like, because whichever one he wants, I want those. Wow.
Like, and all of those facts come with a point of view. So when you do what I do for a living, which is, you know, full contact storytelling, basically, in a courtroom against someone who's trying to tell the opposite story, you find a lot of what you're doing is just figuring out how to present the most persuasive version of this person's subjective experience of their own life.
Like, and all of those facts come with a point of view. So when you do what I do for a living, which is, you know, full contact storytelling, basically, in a courtroom against someone who's trying to tell the opposite story, you find a lot of what you're doing is just figuring out how to present the most persuasive version of this person's subjective experience of their own life.
Like, and all of those facts come with a point of view. So when you do what I do for a living, which is, you know, full contact storytelling, basically, in a courtroom against someone who's trying to tell the opposite story, you find a lot of what you're doing is just figuring out how to present the most persuasive version of this person's subjective experience of their own life.
And I said, well, that feels like you're just trying to be contrarian. And she goes, well, no, like he's actually a pretty shrewd investor. So whichever ones he wants are probably the best ones. So that's actually why I want them. Now, look, whether that's true, which seems like a fair logic, Or whether it was because fuck you, that's why.
And I said, well, that feels like you're just trying to be contrarian. And she goes, well, no, like he's actually a pretty shrewd investor. So whichever ones he wants are probably the best ones. So that's actually why I want them. Now, look, whether that's true, which seems like a fair logic, Or whether it was because fuck you, that's why.
And I said, well, that feels like you're just trying to be contrarian. And she goes, well, no, like he's actually a pretty shrewd investor. So whichever ones he wants are probably the best ones. So that's actually why I want them. Now, look, whether that's true, which seems like a fair logic, Or whether it was because fuck you, that's why.
Like the time to have that conversation was not that moment where we're at odds and we both lawyer it up. The conversation should have been had back in the day, you know, back when there was still an abundance of optimism and affection between these people. And so pet clauses, great example. Like I think there's tremendous value in putting that stuff in there because let me tell you something.
Like the time to have that conversation was not that moment where we're at odds and we both lawyer it up. The conversation should have been had back in the day, you know, back when there was still an abundance of optimism and affection between these people. And so pet clauses, great example. Like I think there's tremendous value in putting that stuff in there because let me tell you something.
Like the time to have that conversation was not that moment where we're at odds and we both lawyer it up. The conversation should have been had back in the day, you know, back when there was still an abundance of optimism and affection between these people. And so pet clauses, great example. Like I think there's tremendous value in putting that stuff in there because let me tell you something.
Heartbreak is hard enough, right? Breaking up cohabitation with someone. Like, I don't care if you're married or not. You live with someone and now you're not cohabitating anymore? It sucks. It sucks. We've all been there. It sucks, man. Like, who keeps what? And, like, even if I keep a thing, like, I don't want that anymore. Like, it just reminds me of you. Like, we got that on that trip.
Heartbreak is hard enough, right? Breaking up cohabitation with someone. Like, I don't care if you're married or not. You live with someone and now you're not cohabitating anymore? It sucks. It sucks. We've all been there. It sucks, man. Like, who keeps what? And, like, even if I keep a thing, like, I don't want that anymore. Like, it just reminds me of you. Like, we got that on that trip.
Heartbreak is hard enough, right? Breaking up cohabitation with someone. Like, I don't care if you're married or not. You live with someone and now you're not cohabitating anymore? It sucks. It sucks. We've all been there. It sucks, man. Like, who keeps what? And, like, even if I keep a thing, like, I don't want that anymore. Like, it just reminds me of you. Like, we got that on that trip.
I don't want to look at it. You know? Like, and I don't want to throw it out. Because it's like it was special. But I also want to look at it. So I'm going to put it in a box somewhere and hope that someday I'm going to open that box and smile. And no one else opens that box. And no one else opens that box and goes, oh, where'd you get it? Oh, nothing. You know what I mean?
I don't want to look at it. You know? Like, and I don't want to throw it out. Because it's like it was special. But I also want to look at it. So I'm going to put it in a box somewhere and hope that someday I'm going to open that box and smile. And no one else opens that box. And no one else opens that box and goes, oh, where'd you get it? Oh, nothing. You know what I mean?
I don't want to look at it. You know? Like, and I don't want to throw it out. Because it's like it was special. But I also want to look at it. So I'm going to put it in a box somewhere and hope that someday I'm going to open that box and smile. And no one else opens that box. And no one else opens that box and goes, oh, where'd you get it? Oh, nothing. You know what I mean?
Like, and that's, you know, like, this is the challenge of this. But that's why having that conversation earlier, that's the way it is. So for me... What prenups can bind is a long list of things you can bind with prenups. What's important is what's the prenup that's right for this couple? What issues are important to you? The simplest one, yours, mine, ours. 50-50 divide on the hours.
Like, and that's, you know, like, this is the challenge of this. But that's why having that conversation earlier, that's the way it is. So for me... What prenups can bind is a long list of things you can bind with prenups. What's important is what's the prenup that's right for this couple? What issues are important to you? The simplest one, yours, mine, ours. 50-50 divide on the hours.
Like, and that's, you know, like, this is the challenge of this. But that's why having that conversation earlier, that's the way it is. So for me... What prenups can bind is a long list of things you can bind with prenups. What's important is what's the prenup that's right for this couple? What issues are important to you? The simplest one, yours, mine, ours. 50-50 divide on the hours.
Yours and mine, we each keep our own, whether that's the stuff we had before the marriage or what. Because even like states like California that have community property. OK, community property, just to give you like a cliff notes on it. And there's a couple of community property states. California is not the only one.
Yours and mine, we each keep our own, whether that's the stuff we had before the marriage or what. Because even like states like California that have community property. OK, community property, just to give you like a cliff notes on it. And there's a couple of community property states. California is not the only one.
Yours and mine, we each keep our own, whether that's the stuff we had before the marriage or what. Because even like states like California that have community property. OK, community property, just to give you like a cliff notes on it. And there's a couple of community property states. California is not the only one.
So when you marry, what you own at the time of marriage is your separate property. OK, and then everything you acquire from the date of marriage forward is presumed to be marital property. You're one person in the eyes of the law. So if you buy your wife a Rolex watch, you bought yourself one half of a Rolex watch. It doesn't matter. Title is irrelevant.
So when you marry, what you own at the time of marriage is your separate property. OK, and then everything you acquire from the date of marriage forward is presumed to be marital property. You're one person in the eyes of the law. So if you buy your wife a Rolex watch, you bought yourself one half of a Rolex watch. It doesn't matter. Title is irrelevant.
So when you marry, what you own at the time of marriage is your separate property. OK, and then everything you acquire from the date of marriage forward is presumed to be marital property. You're one person in the eyes of the law. So if you buy your wife a Rolex watch, you bought yourself one half of a Rolex watch. It doesn't matter. Title is irrelevant.
If you win the lottery, she won half the lottery. So that's how it works in the absence of a prenuptial agreement. Community property is after a certain period of time, and that period of time varies from state to state. California is seven years. Once you hit that benchmark, all the separate property is now marital property. You're considered like fully married.
If you win the lottery, she won half the lottery. So that's how it works in the absence of a prenuptial agreement. Community property is after a certain period of time, and that period of time varies from state to state. California is seven years. Once you hit that benchmark, all the separate property is now marital property. You're considered like fully married.
If you win the lottery, she won half the lottery. So that's how it works in the absence of a prenuptial agreement. Community property is after a certain period of time, and that period of time varies from state to state. California is seven years. Once you hit that benchmark, all the separate property is now marital property. You're considered like fully married.
You're one person in the eyes of the law. All the mine becomes ours. All the mine becomes ours. So the you and the me both becomes part of the we. Now, in theory... The legislative intent, okay, was, yeah, after a certain number of years, you're like the tree that's grown in the way that now it's inextricably. There's no more you and me. There's just we, right? Love that idea. Love that idea.
You're one person in the eyes of the law. All the mine becomes ours. All the mine becomes ours. So the you and the me both becomes part of the we. Now, in theory... The legislative intent, okay, was, yeah, after a certain number of years, you're like the tree that's grown in the way that now it's inextricably. There's no more you and me. There's just we, right? Love that idea. Love that idea.
You're one person in the eyes of the law. All the mine becomes ours. All the mine becomes ours. So the you and the me both becomes part of the we. Now, in theory... The legislative intent, okay, was, yeah, after a certain number of years, you're like the tree that's grown in the way that now it's inextricably. There's no more you and me. There's just we, right? Love that idea. Love that idea.
Cool. Like very romantic concept, right? In reality, do you know what it did? It spiked the divorce rate at six and a half years. Because why? Because six and a half years, honeymoon's over. Like that intoxication's passed. You know, that in early days intoxication's passed. The creamer is no longer like, look at which creamer she uses. It's like, Jesus Christ, you need that much creamer.
Cool. Like very romantic concept, right? In reality, do you know what it did? It spiked the divorce rate at six and a half years. Because why? Because six and a half years, honeymoon's over. Like that intoxication's passed. You know, that in early days intoxication's passed. The creamer is no longer like, look at which creamer she uses. It's like, Jesus Christ, you need that much creamer.
Cool. Like very romantic concept, right? In reality, do you know what it did? It spiked the divorce rate at six and a half years. Because why? Because six and a half years, honeymoon's over. Like that intoxication's passed. You know, that in early days intoxication's passed. The creamer is no longer like, look at which creamer she uses. It's like, Jesus Christ, you need that much creamer.
Like, I got to go buy more creamer now. I don't destroy my story, man.
Like, I got to go buy more creamer now. I don't destroy my story, man.
Like, I got to go buy more creamer now. I don't destroy my story, man.
No, you were still speaking of it fondly.
No, you were still speaking of it fondly.
No, you were still speaking of it fondly.
If I don't bring a little black cloud to the conversation.
If I don't bring a little black cloud to the conversation.
If I don't bring a little black cloud to the conversation.
I love that. And by the way, all the more reason why it's not silly or stupid. It's incredible. That's an incredible thing, you know? And we all have those things. If we're being honest, in every relationship we've ever had, in every single one, Nina, my girlfriend in high school, loved Skid Row. She loved the band Skid Row. She was madly in love with Sebastian Bach from Skid Row.
I love that. And by the way, all the more reason why it's not silly or stupid. It's incredible. That's an incredible thing, you know? And we all have those things. If we're being honest, in every relationship we've ever had, in every single one, Nina, my girlfriend in high school, loved Skid Row. She loved the band Skid Row. She was madly in love with Sebastian Bach from Skid Row.
I love that. And by the way, all the more reason why it's not silly or stupid. It's incredible. That's an incredible thing, you know? And we all have those things. If we're being honest, in every relationship we've ever had, in every single one, Nina, my girlfriend in high school, loved Skid Row. She loved the band Skid Row. She was madly in love with Sebastian Bach from Skid Row.
And I was so jealous because I looked absolutely nothing like him. And I just remember that about her, that she had a poster of Skid Row on her wall. Like, Years ago, that was like she's a mother of two, like she's, you know, but I still remember very fondly, like sort of like being so insecure about Sebastian Bach from Skid Row and her like kind of reassuring me like, oh, that's OK.
And I was so jealous because I looked absolutely nothing like him. And I just remember that about her, that she had a poster of Skid Row on her wall. Like, Years ago, that was like she's a mother of two, like she's, you know, but I still remember very fondly, like sort of like being so insecure about Sebastian Bach from Skid Row and her like kind of reassuring me like, oh, that's OK.
And I was so jealous because I looked absolutely nothing like him. And I just remember that about her, that she had a poster of Skid Row on her wall. Like, Years ago, that was like she's a mother of two, like she's, you know, but I still remember very fondly, like sort of like being so insecure about Sebastian Bach from Skid Row and her like kind of reassuring me like, oh, that's OK.
I think you're much more handsome than him. And me being like, that is so not true. He's so good looking. But like we all have those memories of every single no matter how short the relationship was, we have a memory like that. And many of them, it's been eclipsed by the shit that happened at the end, the negative stuff that happened at the end. And by the way, that's another good reason.
I think you're much more handsome than him. And me being like, that is so not true. He's so good looking. But like we all have those memories of every single no matter how short the relationship was, we have a memory like that. And many of them, it's been eclipsed by the shit that happened at the end, the negative stuff that happened at the end. And by the way, that's another good reason.
I think you're much more handsome than him. And me being like, that is so not true. He's so good looking. But like we all have those memories of every single no matter how short the relationship was, we have a memory like that. And many of them, it's been eclipsed by the shit that happened at the end, the negative stuff that happened at the end. And by the way, that's another good reason.
To control that downside. Because you can destroy 20 years of amazing, beautiful memories with six months of litigation. All you're going to remember is that last six months. Like, that's it. Like, whoever said that money can't buy love, you know, they didn't know. It's like a restaurant. The check comes at the end. Like that's when you got to pay the bills at the end, right?
To control that downside. Because you can destroy 20 years of amazing, beautiful memories with six months of litigation. All you're going to remember is that last six months. Like, that's it. Like, whoever said that money can't buy love, you know, they didn't know. It's like a restaurant. The check comes at the end. Like that's when you got to pay the bills at the end, right?
To control that downside. Because you can destroy 20 years of amazing, beautiful memories with six months of litigation. All you're going to remember is that last six months. Like, that's it. Like, whoever said that money can't buy love, you know, they didn't know. It's like a restaurant. The check comes at the end. Like that's when you got to pay the bills at the end, right?
If you do it the old fashioned way, which is we're just going to submit ourselves to a game that we don't know the rule set of. And then when it's ending, we're going to let lawyers just go at each other. Or we're going to rely on the hope that we won't use the adversarial system and we'll be able to sit across each other from a table with a mediator and hold hands and sing Kumbaya.
If you do it the old fashioned way, which is we're just going to submit ourselves to a game that we don't know the rule set of. And then when it's ending, we're going to let lawyers just go at each other. Or we're going to rely on the hope that we won't use the adversarial system and we'll be able to sit across each other from a table with a mediator and hold hands and sing Kumbaya.
If you do it the old fashioned way, which is we're just going to submit ourselves to a game that we don't know the rule set of. And then when it's ending, we're going to let lawyers just go at each other. Or we're going to rely on the hope that we won't use the adversarial system and we'll be able to sit across each other from a table with a mediator and hold hands and sing Kumbaya.
Another great reason to have a prenup because, look, I have an ex-wife. I've been divorced for 20 years. She's been remarried for 15. Like, she's a wonderful person. She's a friend. I care deeply about her. She will always be. There's a lot of people I love I wouldn't want to be married to. And she would describe me that way. She'd be like, I love Jim. He's a great guy. He's a great ex-husband.
Another great reason to have a prenup because, look, I have an ex-wife. I've been divorced for 20 years. She's been remarried for 15. Like, she's a wonderful person. She's a friend. I care deeply about her. She will always be. There's a lot of people I love I wouldn't want to be married to. And she would describe me that way. She'd be like, I love Jim. He's a great guy. He's a great ex-husband.
Another great reason to have a prenup because, look, I have an ex-wife. I've been divorced for 20 years. She's been remarried for 15. Like, she's a wonderful person. She's a friend. I care deeply about her. She will always be. There's a lot of people I love I wouldn't want to be married to. And she would describe me that way. She'd be like, I love Jim. He's a great guy. He's a great ex-husband.
I'm a much better ex-husband than I am husband. Totally different skill set. Totally different resume. I'm an excellent ex-husband. I do not have the patience to be a good husband, but I have the patience to be a good ex-husband. I can be a great co-parent, too. I'm a really good father. You know, you don't have to be a great husband to be a great father. It's a different skill set.
I'm a much better ex-husband than I am husband. Totally different skill set. Totally different resume. I'm an excellent ex-husband. I do not have the patience to be a good husband, but I have the patience to be a good ex-husband. I can be a great co-parent, too. I'm a really good father. You know, you don't have to be a great husband to be a great father. It's a different skill set.
I'm a much better ex-husband than I am husband. Totally different skill set. Totally different resume. I'm an excellent ex-husband. I do not have the patience to be a good husband, but I have the patience to be a good ex-husband. I can be a great co-parent, too. I'm a really good father. You know, you don't have to be a great husband to be a great father. It's a different skill set.
Like, just because you cook doesn't mean you can farm. Those are two different things. Yes, they both deal with food, but they're two totally different skill sets. So fundamentally, I think how things end very often impacts your perception and memory of the entire thing. And you as the brain scientist would be able to tell me why that works in terms of what actually imprints on us.
Like, just because you cook doesn't mean you can farm. Those are two different things. Yes, they both deal with food, but they're two totally different skill sets. So fundamentally, I think how things end very often impacts your perception and memory of the entire thing. And you as the brain scientist would be able to tell me why that works in terms of what actually imprints on us.
Like, just because you cook doesn't mean you can farm. Those are two different things. Yes, they both deal with food, but they're two totally different skill sets. So fundamentally, I think how things end very often impacts your perception and memory of the entire thing. And you as the brain scientist would be able to tell me why that works in terms of what actually imprints on us.
But I believe, and I'm sure there's some chemical reason for it, Pain.
But I believe, and I'm sure there's some chemical reason for it, Pain.
But I believe, and I'm sure there's some chemical reason for it, Pain.
The truth is divorce of the ugly kind is trauma. Period. Like, I am involved in a tremendous amount of trauma. Trauma for each of the parties, trauma for their children. Like, it's a tremendous trauma. And it does not have to be. Like, but here's the problem. No one comes into my office and sits down in front of me and says – I want this to be complicated and expensive and awful.
The truth is divorce of the ugly kind is trauma. Period. Like, I am involved in a tremendous amount of trauma. Trauma for each of the parties, trauma for their children. Like, it's a tremendous trauma. And it does not have to be. Like, but here's the problem. No one comes into my office and sits down in front of me and says – I want this to be complicated and expensive and awful.
The truth is divorce of the ugly kind is trauma. Period. Like, I am involved in a tremendous amount of trauma. Trauma for each of the parties, trauma for their children. Like, it's a tremendous trauma. And it does not have to be. Like, but here's the problem. No one comes into my office and sits down in front of me and says – I want this to be complicated and expensive and awful.
I want it to last a really long time. I want to put your kids through college instead of mine. And I just, I want it to just be just miserable. I want it to be a shit show. Everybody comes in and says the same thing. I want to be fair. I just want to be fair. I want this over with quickly, and I want to be fair.
I want it to last a really long time. I want to put your kids through college instead of mine. And I just, I want it to just be just miserable. I want it to be a shit show. Everybody comes in and says the same thing. I want to be fair. I just want to be fair. I want this over with quickly, and I want to be fair.
I want it to last a really long time. I want to put your kids through college instead of mine. And I just, I want it to just be just miserable. I want it to be a shit show. Everybody comes in and says the same thing. I want to be fair. I just want to be fair. I want this over with quickly, and I want to be fair.
Problem is, their definition of fair and their spouse's definition of fair are completely different. Completely different. And what they think they owe each other is completely different. And now... You both got guns on each other. You both hired lawyers. And I've argued both sides of every single issue you could argue in a divorce. I have argued both sides, probably in front of the same judges.
Problem is, their definition of fair and their spouse's definition of fair are completely different. Completely different. And what they think they owe each other is completely different. And now... You both got guns on each other. You both hired lawyers. And I've argued both sides of every single issue you could argue in a divorce. I have argued both sides, probably in front of the same judges.
Problem is, their definition of fair and their spouse's definition of fair are completely different. Completely different. And what they think they owe each other is completely different. And now... You both got guns on each other. You both hired lawyers. And I've argued both sides of every single issue you could argue in a divorce. I have argued both sides, probably in front of the same judges.
I've had days where in front of the same judge, I argue complete opposite positions on different cases. Because that's the nature of our job, right? And a weapon in the hands of a virtuous person protects. And a weapon in the hands of the villain causes tremendous harm. But the weapon is neutral. Like, and I'm the weapon. Like, and there's plenty of me out there. And we get paid by the hour.
I've had days where in front of the same judge, I argue complete opposite positions on different cases. Because that's the nature of our job, right? And a weapon in the hands of a virtuous person protects. And a weapon in the hands of the villain causes tremendous harm. But the weapon is neutral. Like, and I'm the weapon. Like, and there's plenty of me out there. And we get paid by the hour.
I've had days where in front of the same judge, I argue complete opposite positions on different cases. Because that's the nature of our job, right? And a weapon in the hands of a virtuous person protects. And a weapon in the hands of the villain causes tremendous harm. But the weapon is neutral. Like, and I'm the weapon. Like, and there's plenty of me out there. And we get paid by the hour.
And we get paid whether we win or lose, by the way. Like personal injury lawyers, everything has no fee unless we recover for you.
And we get paid whether we win or lose, by the way. Like personal injury lawyers, everything has no fee unless we recover for you.
And we get paid whether we win or lose, by the way. Like personal injury lawyers, everything has no fee unless we recover for you.
Business is good. Business is really good. And the truth is like I don't need – to make it rain just because I sell umbrellas. Like I'm not at a bar saying to people like, hey man, you could do better than her. Like I don't need to, like people are doing a fine job of fucking their relationships up all by themselves. No, you're the love guy. Yeah.
Business is good. Business is really good. And the truth is like I don't need – to make it rain just because I sell umbrellas. Like I'm not at a bar saying to people like, hey man, you could do better than her. Like I don't need to, like people are doing a fine job of fucking their relationships up all by themselves. No, you're the love guy. Yeah.
Business is good. Business is really good. And the truth is like I don't need – to make it rain just because I sell umbrellas. Like I'm not at a bar saying to people like, hey man, you could do better than her. Like I don't need to, like people are doing a fine job of fucking their relationships up all by themselves. No, you're the love guy. Yeah.
Oh, well I happen to be, but even my colleagues, like we're not cheering for divorce any more than an oncologist is cheering for cancer. And like when people say to me, oh, you make her, how do you, this guy, he makes his living in people's ruined lives and heartbreak. It's like, okay, like my mom had cancer.
Oh, well I happen to be, but even my colleagues, like we're not cheering for divorce any more than an oncologist is cheering for cancer. And like when people say to me, oh, you make her, how do you, this guy, he makes his living in people's ruined lives and heartbreak. It's like, okay, like my mom had cancer.
Oh, well I happen to be, but even my colleagues, like we're not cheering for divorce any more than an oncologist is cheering for cancer. And like when people say to me, oh, you make her, how do you, this guy, he makes his living in people's ruined lives and heartbreak. It's like, okay, like my mom had cancer.
Like I didn't look at the oncologist and go, well, I bet you feel good about yourselves making money on my mom's cancer. Like, no, I understand what they're not. They're there because this exists and they're there to try to do what they can to help. And by the way, like there were so many people that divorced the way that you described your friend's divorce in the way that I described mine.
Like I didn't look at the oncologist and go, well, I bet you feel good about yourselves making money on my mom's cancer. Like, no, I understand what they're not. They're there because this exists and they're there to try to do what they can to help. And by the way, like there were so many people that divorced the way that you described your friend's divorce in the way that I described mine.
Like I didn't look at the oncologist and go, well, I bet you feel good about yourselves making money on my mom's cancer. Like, no, I understand what they're not. They're there because this exists and they're there to try to do what they can to help. And by the way, like there were so many people that divorced the way that you described your friend's divorce in the way that I described mine.
You just don't hear about it. You know why? It's the least interesting thing. Like, do you think that's interesting? Like if you invited me to a party and somebody said, oh, what do you do for a living? And I said, I'm a divorce lawyer. And they said, oh my God, you must have some stories. And I went, oh my God, I've got this one.
You just don't hear about it. You know why? It's the least interesting thing. Like, do you think that's interesting? Like if you invited me to a party and somebody said, oh, what do you do for a living? And I said, I'm a divorce lawyer. And they said, oh my God, you must have some stories. And I went, oh my God, I've got this one.
You just don't hear about it. You know why? It's the least interesting thing. Like, do you think that's interesting? Like if you invited me to a party and somebody said, oh, what do you do for a living? And I said, I'm a divorce lawyer. And they said, oh my God, you must have some stories. And I went, oh my God, I've got this one.
So there's this couple and they fell in love with each other and they were quite young when it happened. And then gradually, like they just wanted different things. They matured into different people and they sort of lost the plot of what they were together. And the Venn diagram of their overlapping interests and joys kind of got smaller and smaller.
So there's this couple and they fell in love with each other and they were quite young when it happened. And then gradually, like they just wanted different things. They matured into different people and they sort of lost the plot of what they were together. And the Venn diagram of their overlapping interests and joys kind of got smaller and smaller.
So there's this couple and they fell in love with each other and they were quite young when it happened. And then gradually, like they just wanted different things. They matured into different people and they sort of lost the plot of what they were together. And the Venn diagram of their overlapping interests and joys kind of got smaller and smaller.
So they decided amicably that, you know, they should end the relationship, but they wanted to continue to co-parent really well. Dude, you'd be like, that is the worst story. Whereas if I go like, and then he took a chainsaw and he cut the car in half and he was like, pick which half you want, bitch.
So they decided amicably that, you know, they should end the relationship, but they wanted to continue to co-parent really well. Dude, you'd be like, that is the worst story. Whereas if I go like, and then he took a chainsaw and he cut the car in half and he was like, pick which half you want, bitch.
So they decided amicably that, you know, they should end the relationship, but they wanted to continue to co-parent really well. Dude, you'd be like, that is the worst story. Whereas if I go like, and then he took a chainsaw and he cut the car in half and he was like, pick which half you want, bitch.
Like, that's one that you're going to be like, oh my God, Jim, you got to tell the story to this guy. Like, you want to hear that story. It's so much more interesting. And by the way, People who have an ugly divorce, it's so traumatic that it becomes part of who they are. Like, it becomes a lens that they see the whole world through. It damages their trust so much, and they're so wounded by it.
Like, that's one that you're going to be like, oh my God, Jim, you got to tell the story to this guy. Like, you want to hear that story. It's so much more interesting. And by the way, People who have an ugly divorce, it's so traumatic that it becomes part of who they are. Like, it becomes a lens that they see the whole world through. It damages their trust so much, and they're so wounded by it.
Like, that's one that you're going to be like, oh my God, Jim, you got to tell the story to this guy. Like, you want to hear that story. It's so much more interesting. And by the way, People who have an ugly divorce, it's so traumatic that it becomes part of who they are. Like, it becomes a lens that they see the whole world through. It damages their trust so much, and they're so wounded by it.
Yeah, and by the way, like, most human beings, you and I both know, when they tell you the story of their life, they're the hero of the story. Or the victim. Or the victim, right? Like one of the things I like about our friendship is that like you and I are very aware of our own flaws and cognitive biases.
Yeah, and by the way, like, most human beings, you and I both know, when they tell you the story of their life, they're the hero of the story. Or the victim. Or the victim, right? Like one of the things I like about our friendship is that like you and I are very aware of our own flaws and cognitive biases.
Yeah, and by the way, like, most human beings, you and I both know, when they tell you the story of their life, they're the hero of the story. Or the victim. Or the victim, right? Like one of the things I like about our friendship is that like you and I are very aware of our own flaws and cognitive biases.
And so when we talk to each other, you know, like all of the people I like best are people that like reality, you know, and that see themselves with a certain level of reality, you know. And so I don't have to be afraid to like talk to them candidly and blunt. And I think that in marriage, like, and in divorce, if you tell the story and you're like, yeah, I could have done better.
And so when we talk to each other, you know, like all of the people I like best are people that like reality, you know, and that see themselves with a certain level of reality, you know. And so I don't have to be afraid to like talk to them candidly and blunt. And I think that in marriage, like, and in divorce, if you tell the story and you're like, yeah, I could have done better.
And so when we talk to each other, you know, like all of the people I like best are people that like reality, you know, and that see themselves with a certain level of reality, you know. And so I don't have to be afraid to like talk to them candidly and blunt. And I think that in marriage, like, and in divorce, if you tell the story and you're like, yeah, I could have done better.
Like, I really screwed that up. But, you know, I did get this right. And, you know, she's being unfair when it comes to that. Like, when you tell the story and you're not the hero of the story, it's much more credible as far as I'm concerned. And I say that as someone who tells stories for a living, you know, in a courtroom to try to be as persuasive as possible.
Like, I really screwed that up. But, you know, I did get this right. And, you know, she's being unfair when it comes to that. Like, when you tell the story and you're not the hero of the story, it's much more credible as far as I'm concerned. And I say that as someone who tells stories for a living, you know, in a courtroom to try to be as persuasive as possible.
Like, I really screwed that up. But, you know, I did get this right. And, you know, she's being unfair when it comes to that. Like, when you tell the story and you're not the hero of the story, it's much more credible as far as I'm concerned. And I say that as someone who tells stories for a living, you know, in a courtroom to try to be as persuasive as possible.
I always tell my clients, I'm like, if you make yourself the hero or you make the other person the villain, like, you lose credibility tremendously. Everybody has to be like a flawed hero, a villain that has some traits of positive to them. Like it's a much more believable real story.
I always tell my clients, I'm like, if you make yourself the hero or you make the other person the villain, like, you lose credibility tremendously. Everybody has to be like a flawed hero, a villain that has some traits of positive to them. Like it's a much more believable real story.
I always tell my clients, I'm like, if you make yourself the hero or you make the other person the villain, like, you lose credibility tremendously. Everybody has to be like a flawed hero, a villain that has some traits of positive to them. Like it's a much more believable real story.
That's why little kids' TV shows, there's like the villain and the music gets dark when the villain comes on and then the hero is all good and all. But as adults, that's not what we want. We want Breaking Bad. We want antiheroes. We want complicated heroes. We want villains that we kind of feel a little bad for, like the Joker. We get it, you know? Because we can relate.
That's why little kids' TV shows, there's like the villain and the music gets dark when the villain comes on and then the hero is all good and all. But as adults, that's not what we want. We want Breaking Bad. We want antiheroes. We want complicated heroes. We want villains that we kind of feel a little bad for, like the Joker. We get it, you know? Because we can relate.
That's why little kids' TV shows, there's like the villain and the music gets dark when the villain comes on and then the hero is all good and all. But as adults, that's not what we want. We want Breaking Bad. We want antiheroes. We want complicated heroes. We want villains that we kind of feel a little bad for, like the Joker. We get it, you know? Because we can relate.
Right, because we know that's what we actually are. And by the way, that's what our partners are. So this idea that let's just put a tux on him and a white dress on her and then everybody's heroes, like, that's kind of silly, you know? And that's where I think...
Right, because we know that's what we actually are. And by the way, that's what our partners are. So this idea that let's just put a tux on him and a white dress on her and then everybody's heroes, like, that's kind of silly, you know? And that's where I think...
Right, because we know that's what we actually are. And by the way, that's what our partners are. So this idea that let's just put a tux on him and a white dress on her and then everybody's heroes, like, that's kind of silly, you know? And that's where I think...
That anger that becomes toxic and definitional to a person, it doesn't have to be that way if early in the discourse about love, we just normalize this idea of you're a human being. I'm a human being. We're flawed. We have hopes. We have fears. We have things we got right, things we get wrong. We're going to change. We're going to change in good and bad ways if you want to parse it that way.
That anger that becomes toxic and definitional to a person, it doesn't have to be that way if early in the discourse about love, we just normalize this idea of you're a human being. I'm a human being. We're flawed. We have hopes. We have fears. We have things we got right, things we get wrong. We're going to change. We're going to change in good and bad ways if you want to parse it that way.
That anger that becomes toxic and definitional to a person, it doesn't have to be that way if early in the discourse about love, we just normalize this idea of you're a human being. I'm a human being. We're flawed. We have hopes. We have fears. We have things we got right, things we get wrong. We're going to change. We're going to change in good and bad ways if you want to parse it that way.
So how do we water the plant? Like how do we keep this thing healthy and vibrant? How do we check in with each other? You have a job. You have performance reviews, right? You have some system whereby there's feedback about what you're doing right and doing wrong or there's a bonus structure so that there's skin in the game.
So how do we water the plant? Like how do we keep this thing healthy and vibrant? How do we check in with each other? You have a job. You have performance reviews, right? You have some system whereby there's feedback about what you're doing right and doing wrong or there's a bonus structure so that there's skin in the game.
So how do we water the plant? Like how do we keep this thing healthy and vibrant? How do we check in with each other? You have a job. You have performance reviews, right? You have some system whereby there's feedback about what you're doing right and doing wrong or there's a bonus structure so that there's skin in the game.
Like, why does it make it less romantic to look at our relationship that way? To say, like, hey, it's important to check in on this stuff. It's important to have, like, routine preventative maintenance on this thing. Like, if you said to me, like, oh, I'm taking my car for an oil change, I'd be like, what, you don't have faith in your car? Like, no. What, you have a cheap car? Like, no.
Like, why does it make it less romantic to look at our relationship that way? To say, like, hey, it's important to check in on this stuff. It's important to have, like, routine preventative maintenance on this thing. Like, if you said to me, like, oh, I'm taking my car for an oil change, I'd be like, what, you don't have faith in your car? Like, no. What, you have a cheap car? Like, no.
Like, why does it make it less romantic to look at our relationship that way? To say, like, hey, it's important to check in on this stuff. It's important to have, like, routine preventative maintenance on this thing. Like, if you said to me, like, oh, I'm taking my car for an oil change, I'd be like, what, you don't have faith in your car? Like, no. What, you have a cheap car? Like, no.
Like, of course, preventative maintenance makes sense. It's a whole lot better than waiting for there to be a problem than trying to fix the problem.
Like, of course, preventative maintenance makes sense. It's a whole lot better than waiting for there to be a problem than trying to fix the problem.
Like, of course, preventative maintenance makes sense. It's a whole lot better than waiting for there to be a problem than trying to fix the problem.
Well, sure, what wouldn't feel good about only seeing the good? Like, the previews is the best part of the movie. If you watch the previews and you go, oh, my God, that preview was good. Haven't you ever seen a preview and gone, oh, my God, I can't wait to see that movie? And then you see the movie and you're like, that sucked.
Well, sure, what wouldn't feel good about only seeing the good? Like, the previews is the best part of the movie. If you watch the previews and you go, oh, my God, that preview was good. Haven't you ever seen a preview and gone, oh, my God, I can't wait to see that movie? And then you see the movie and you're like, that sucked.
Well, sure, what wouldn't feel good about only seeing the good? Like, the previews is the best part of the movie. If you watch the previews and you go, oh, my God, that preview was good. Haven't you ever seen a preview and gone, oh, my God, I can't wait to see that movie? And then you see the movie and you're like, that sucked.
Like, the only good scenes were the things that were in the preview in that two-minute preview. Right. Like, okay, well, what do you think courtship is? Courtship's the preview. By the way, and if the preview sucks, the movie's really going to suck.
Like, the only good scenes were the things that were in the preview in that two-minute preview. Right. Like, okay, well, what do you think courtship is? Courtship's the preview. By the way, and if the preview sucks, the movie's really going to suck.
Like, the only good scenes were the things that were in the preview in that two-minute preview. Right. Like, okay, well, what do you think courtship is? Courtship's the preview. By the way, and if the preview sucks, the movie's really going to suck.
And there's moments in it that you kind of go like, I don't know what the point of this is, but I'm in for the ride, so let's do it, right?
And there's moments in it that you kind of go like, I don't know what the point of this is, but I'm in for the ride, so let's do it, right?
And there's moments in it that you kind of go like, I don't know what the point of this is, but I'm in for the ride, so let's do it, right?
I get so excited when anybody knows that movie.
I get so excited when anybody knows that movie.
I get so excited when anybody knows that movie.
Brad Pitt is in it. He has a little scene in it. I think Quentin Tarantino. Quentin Tarantino might make a cameo.
Brad Pitt is in it. He has a little scene in it. I think Quentin Tarantino. Quentin Tarantino might make a cameo.
Brad Pitt is in it. He has a little scene in it. I think Quentin Tarantino. Quentin Tarantino might make a cameo.
The two protagonists of the film, without giving anything away, are deeply flawed.
The two protagonists of the film, without giving anything away, are deeply flawed.
The two protagonists of the film, without giving anything away, are deeply flawed.
Like, they're deeply flawed. By any traditional definition, they are not something that you would go, oh, this is the perfect romantic partner. It's actually quite the opposite.
Like, they're deeply flawed. By any traditional definition, they are not something that you would go, oh, this is the perfect romantic partner. It's actually quite the opposite.
Like, they're deeply flawed. By any traditional definition, they are not something that you would go, oh, this is the perfect romantic partner. It's actually quite the opposite.
On paper, there's a lot of reasons to just walk away from this person. And they meet. And there is this instant true romance. There is this sense of, like, I see you for what you actually are. And all that negative stuff on paper, that means nothing because that's not who you are. I see who you are, and I'm cheering for you. And you are so cool. Like, that's the reality. And that, to me—
On paper, there's a lot of reasons to just walk away from this person. And they meet. And there is this instant true romance. There is this sense of, like, I see you for what you actually are. And all that negative stuff on paper, that means nothing because that's not who you are. I see who you are, and I'm cheering for you. And you are so cool. Like, that's the reality. And that, to me—
On paper, there's a lot of reasons to just walk away from this person. And they meet. And there is this instant true romance. There is this sense of, like, I see you for what you actually are. And all that negative stuff on paper, that means nothing because that's not who you are. I see who you are, and I'm cheering for you. And you are so cool. Like, that's the reality. And that, to me—
movie still stands up for that reason because it's this it's this sense of being seen with all your warts and all and just being i see you and you see me and it's you and me it's you and me let's do this like you know let's hold hands and walk this thing together and it's a game you cannot win and we're going to play it to the utmost like let's just play this thing through and and it's it doesn't get better than that yeah you nailed it uh you nailed the description
movie still stands up for that reason because it's this it's this sense of being seen with all your warts and all and just being i see you and you see me and it's you and me it's you and me let's do this like you know let's hold hands and walk this thing together and it's a game you cannot win and we're going to play it to the utmost like let's just play this thing through and and it's it doesn't get better than that yeah you nailed it uh you nailed the description
movie still stands up for that reason because it's this it's this sense of being seen with all your warts and all and just being i see you and you see me and it's you and me it's you and me let's do this like you know let's hold hands and walk this thing together and it's a game you cannot win and we're going to play it to the utmost like let's just play this thing through and and it's it doesn't get better than that yeah you nailed it uh you nailed the description
Look, you know, while you were saying that, all I could reflect on was a prior conversation you had on a podcast about pornography. Yeah. And the effect that it has on us and our perception of sex, our dopamine, all these other things. Because young guys are writing to me about this all the time. Rom-coms are porn. That's all wrong.
Look, you know, while you were saying that, all I could reflect on was a prior conversation you had on a podcast about pornography. Yeah. And the effect that it has on us and our perception of sex, our dopamine, all these other things. Because young guys are writing to me about this all the time. Rom-coms are porn. That's all wrong.
Look, you know, while you were saying that, all I could reflect on was a prior conversation you had on a podcast about pornography. Yeah. And the effect that it has on us and our perception of sex, our dopamine, all these other things. Because young guys are writing to me about this all the time. Rom-coms are porn. That's all wrong.
Listen, I'm not saying that there's not a purpose in having an ideal, a romanticized ideal. But most romantic comedies are not true romance, a story about two flawed characters who, you know, like – most rom-coms are like an ideal, right? They're a romanticized ideal that, by the way, ends before reality can kick in.
Listen, I'm not saying that there's not a purpose in having an ideal, a romanticized ideal. But most romantic comedies are not true romance, a story about two flawed characters who, you know, like – most rom-coms are like an ideal, right? They're a romanticized ideal that, by the way, ends before reality can kick in.
Listen, I'm not saying that there's not a purpose in having an ideal, a romanticized ideal. But most romantic comedies are not true romance, a story about two flawed characters who, you know, like – most rom-coms are like an ideal, right? They're a romanticized ideal that, by the way, ends before reality can kick in.
So like, if you think Jack, I forget what her character, Kate Winslet's character was on Titanic, but like, if you think he'd lived at the end of Titanic, that a few years later, she wouldn't be like, all right, enough painting the French girls. Like, you got to get a job, buddy. Like, you're telling me, like most of these movies, you know, these rom-coms, they end at like the high, I love you.
So like, if you think Jack, I forget what her character, Kate Winslet's character was on Titanic, but like, if you think he'd lived at the end of Titanic, that a few years later, she wouldn't be like, all right, enough painting the French girls. Like, you got to get a job, buddy. Like, you're telling me, like most of these movies, you know, these rom-coms, they end at like the high, I love you.
So like, if you think Jack, I forget what her character, Kate Winslet's character was on Titanic, but like, if you think he'd lived at the end of Titanic, that a few years later, she wouldn't be like, all right, enough painting the French girls. Like, you got to get a job, buddy. Like, you're telling me, like most of these movies, you know, these rom-coms, they end at like the high, I love you.
I've always loved you. I love you too. And then it ends. They don't ever have to live together. They don't ever have to, you don't have to ever see like the actual reality of them at Trader Joe's waiting on the line, like argue
I've always loved you. I love you too. And then it ends. They don't ever have to live together. They don't ever have to, you don't have to ever see like the actual reality of them at Trader Joe's waiting on the line, like argue
I've always loved you. I love you too. And then it ends. They don't ever have to live together. They don't ever have to, you don't have to ever see like the actual reality of them at Trader Joe's waiting on the line, like argue
went over what you know like he doesn't find someone else he doesn't find somebody else he's not on sitting on the couch scrolling when she's trying to talk to him so she would have expired the age limit right absolutely it's like menudo he like you turn 20 you're out sorry yeah well i think it's not public knowledge so i i think at the end of the day what's really core here is look i'm not saying let's get rid of pornography like i have two sons they're adults now
went over what you know like he doesn't find someone else he doesn't find somebody else he's not on sitting on the couch scrolling when she's trying to talk to him so she would have expired the age limit right absolutely it's like menudo he like you turn 20 you're out sorry yeah well i think it's not public knowledge so i i think at the end of the day what's really core here is look i'm not saying let's get rid of pornography like i have two sons they're adults now
went over what you know like he doesn't find someone else he doesn't find somebody else he's not on sitting on the couch scrolling when she's trying to talk to him so she would have expired the age limit right absolutely it's like menudo he like you turn 20 you're out sorry yeah well i think it's not public knowledge so i i think at the end of the day what's really core here is look i'm not saying let's get rid of pornography like i have two sons they're adults now
But when they were young, they got to a certain age. They had phones. They had iPads. We had the internet. And I was like, they're going to encounter pornography because it's coming at them in a way that it did not come at me when I was that age.
But when they were young, they got to a certain age. They had phones. They had iPads. We had the internet. And I was like, they're going to encounter pornography because it's coming at them in a way that it did not come at me when I was that age.
But when they were young, they got to a certain age. They had phones. They had iPads. We had the internet. And I was like, they're going to encounter pornography because it's coming at them in a way that it did not come at me when I was that age.
Like as I was that age, you had to like trade like a bunch of things you had to get someone's dad's porn magazine for like a day so that you could look at it. You couldn't just log on to any device and be inundated with any kind of kink you wanted to see. Yeah, it's inconceivable. It's not even fathomable and I don't know what effect.
Like as I was that age, you had to like trade like a bunch of things you had to get someone's dad's porn magazine for like a day so that you could look at it. You couldn't just log on to any device and be inundated with any kind of kink you wanted to see. Yeah, it's inconceivable. It's not even fathomable and I don't know what effect.
Like as I was that age, you had to like trade like a bunch of things you had to get someone's dad's porn magazine for like a day so that you could look at it. You couldn't just log on to any device and be inundated with any kind of kink you wanted to see. Yeah, it's inconceivable. It's not even fathomable and I don't know what effect.
I mean you know better than I do and you've spoken eloquently about it, about the effect that has on the organism. But here's what I will tell you. It definitely creates in people a – if sex – if your sex education is pornography, you're going to have a really hard time navigating an actual sexual relationship. And by the way, like I've seen pornography and I've had sex before.
I mean you know better than I do and you've spoken eloquently about it, about the effect that has on the organism. But here's what I will tell you. It definitely creates in people a – if sex – if your sex education is pornography, you're going to have a really hard time navigating an actual sexual relationship. And by the way, like I've seen pornography and I've had sex before.
I mean you know better than I do and you've spoken eloquently about it, about the effect that has on the organism. But here's what I will tell you. It definitely creates in people a – if sex – if your sex education is pornography, you're going to have a really hard time navigating an actual sexual relationship. And by the way, like I've seen pornography and I've had sex before.
Sex is not like it is in pornography, but it's great. Like, it's still so fun. It's, like, the most fun thing. So I don't know why, like, anybody would go, oh, we got to make it better. Like, sex is great. Like, it's great. Sex sells sex. You don't need to put all that on it. Like, I understand why. Yes, of course.
Sex is not like it is in pornography, but it's great. Like, it's still so fun. It's, like, the most fun thing. So I don't know why, like, anybody would go, oh, we got to make it better. Like, sex is great. Like, it's great. Sex sells sex. You don't need to put all that on it. Like, I understand why. Yes, of course.
Sex is not like it is in pornography, but it's great. Like, it's still so fun. It's, like, the most fun thing. So I don't know why, like, anybody would go, oh, we got to make it better. Like, sex is great. Like, it's great. Sex sells sex. You don't need to put all that on it. Like, I understand why. Yes, of course.
Like, you want to, it's just like what they do to French fries at a fast food restaurant. They figure out ways to make them more addictive. You know, I get it. But same thing with rom-coms. Like, rom-coms is an idealized, stylized version of the best part of all of it. Just like porn.
Like, you want to, it's just like what they do to French fries at a fast food restaurant. They figure out ways to make them more addictive. You know, I get it. But same thing with rom-coms. Like, rom-coms is an idealized, stylized version of the best part of all of it. Just like porn.
Like, you want to, it's just like what they do to French fries at a fast food restaurant. They figure out ways to make them more addictive. You know, I get it. But same thing with rom-coms. Like, rom-coms is an idealized, stylized version of the best part of all of it. Just like porn.
So, like, if you make your relationship, like, your sexual relationship based on pornography or what looks good in movies, you're setting yourself up for heartbreak. So same thing with rom-coms. Same thing with like I've met my soulmate and that's my soulmate and then it's perfect and it stays perfect. And if it's not perfect, then they mustn't have been my soulmate.
So, like, if you make your relationship, like, your sexual relationship based on pornography or what looks good in movies, you're setting yourself up for heartbreak. So same thing with rom-coms. Same thing with like I've met my soulmate and that's my soulmate and then it's perfect and it stays perfect. And if it's not perfect, then they mustn't have been my soulmate.
So, like, if you make your relationship, like, your sexual relationship based on pornography or what looks good in movies, you're setting yourself up for heartbreak. So same thing with rom-coms. Same thing with like I've met my soulmate and that's my soulmate and then it's perfect and it stays perfect. And if it's not perfect, then they mustn't have been my soulmate.
Like all that is is pornography. All that is is taking the dream life, the stylized perfect parts, showing just that and then convincing people that's what it's supposed to look like. And if it doesn't look like that, you're not having a satisfying time. Like the reality is, is that people are flawed, but we want the same thing.
Like all that is is pornography. All that is is taking the dream life, the stylized perfect parts, showing just that and then convincing people that's what it's supposed to look like. And if it doesn't look like that, you're not having a satisfying time. Like the reality is, is that people are flawed, but we want the same thing.
Like all that is is pornography. All that is is taking the dream life, the stylized perfect parts, showing just that and then convincing people that's what it's supposed to look like. And if it doesn't look like that, you're not having a satisfying time. Like the reality is, is that people are flawed, but we want the same thing.
We want, I don't believe that the path of like, I'm going to own 50, like you and I both know men who own every car you could ever want and could sleep with any number of gorgeous women, three, four at a time if they want to. And they're unhappy. They're desperately unhappy.
We want, I don't believe that the path of like, I'm going to own 50, like you and I both know men who own every car you could ever want and could sleep with any number of gorgeous women, three, four at a time if they want to. And they're unhappy. They're desperately unhappy.
We want, I don't believe that the path of like, I'm going to own 50, like you and I both know men who own every car you could ever want and could sleep with any number of gorgeous women, three, four at a time if they want to. And they're unhappy. They're desperately unhappy.
Like, I represent people who have a net worth of you and I combined times 100, and they're miserable because they don't have love. They don't have this basic connection with another person. They don't have the sense of who they are as an object of someone's love and the worth that comes with it, which, by the way, is foundational. Like, look at a baby.
Like, I represent people who have a net worth of you and I combined times 100, and they're miserable because they don't have love. They don't have this basic connection with another person. They don't have the sense of who they are as an object of someone's love and the worth that comes with it, which, by the way, is foundational. Like, look at a baby.
Like, I represent people who have a net worth of you and I combined times 100, and they're miserable because they don't have love. They don't have this basic connection with another person. They don't have the sense of who they are as an object of someone's love and the worth that comes with it, which, by the way, is foundational. Like, look at a baby.
Like look at a baby and look at how they look at their mother. Like mom is the name of God on the lips of children. Like there's something about like this thing loves me and wants what's best for me. Like we come out half formed. And there's this person that just loves us, right? And so, of course, we're always looking to find that again, that kind of love and that kind of connection.
Like look at a baby and look at how they look at their mother. Like mom is the name of God on the lips of children. Like there's something about like this thing loves me and wants what's best for me. Like we come out half formed. And there's this person that just loves us, right? And so, of course, we're always looking to find that again, that kind of love and that kind of connection.
Like look at a baby and look at how they look at their mother. Like mom is the name of God on the lips of children. Like there's something about like this thing loves me and wants what's best for me. Like we come out half formed. And there's this person that just loves us, right? And so, of course, we're always looking to find that again, that kind of love and that kind of connection.
And there are people that find it. But the way they find it is not through fairy tales. It's not through the romanticized version of pornography. It's through realism.
And there are people that find it. But the way they find it is not through fairy tales. It's not through the romanticized version of pornography. It's through realism.
And there are people that find it. But the way they find it is not through fairy tales. It's not through the romanticized version of pornography. It's through realism.
Like, I grew up, I wanted to be brave. Like, I aspired to being brave. Like, my heroes growing up were from Last of the Mohicans, right? La Long Caribbean, you know? Like, they were samurai, like, in the films, like the Moshashi films, you know, all those kinds of films. And so if you're not scared, it's not brave, right? Like, it's only brave if you're scared and you do it anyway.
Like, I grew up, I wanted to be brave. Like, I aspired to being brave. Like, my heroes growing up were from Last of the Mohicans, right? La Long Caribbean, you know? Like, they were samurai, like, in the films, like the Moshashi films, you know, all those kinds of films. And so if you're not scared, it's not brave, right? Like, it's only brave if you're scared and you do it anyway.
Like, I grew up, I wanted to be brave. Like, I aspired to being brave. Like, my heroes growing up were from Last of the Mohicans, right? La Long Caribbean, you know? Like, they were samurai, like, in the films, like the Moshashi films, you know, all those kinds of films. And so if you're not scared, it's not brave, right? Like, it's only brave if you're scared and you do it anyway.
Like, that's the thing that makes it brave. Like, and that's the thing we're not teaching young men anymore. Is it's like, yeah, it's scary. It's so much easier to just be like, yeah, women don't mean anything. Women just, they're disposable. They're like iPhones. I'll get a new one. It'll have different features. It'll be great. Like, you think Andrew Tate's brave?
Like, that's the thing that makes it brave. Like, and that's the thing we're not teaching young men anymore. Is it's like, yeah, it's scary. It's so much easier to just be like, yeah, women don't mean anything. Women just, they're disposable. They're like iPhones. I'll get a new one. It'll have different features. It'll be great. Like, you think Andrew Tate's brave?
Like, that's the thing that makes it brave. Like, and that's the thing we're not teaching young men anymore. Is it's like, yeah, it's scary. It's so much easier to just be like, yeah, women don't mean anything. Women just, they're disposable. They're like iPhones. I'll get a new one. It'll have different features. It'll be great. Like, you think Andrew Tate's brave?
Like, Andrew Tate's brave because he fights Muay Thai. That's brave. That's brave. Like, even ground with another man, bare hands. Let's do this thing. Yeah, that's brave. But having a bunch of women and sort of not committing to any of them, not having being vulnerable to any of them, this is what's brave about. There's nothing brave about that.
Like, Andrew Tate's brave because he fights Muay Thai. That's brave. That's brave. Like, even ground with another man, bare hands. Let's do this thing. Yeah, that's brave. But having a bunch of women and sort of not committing to any of them, not having being vulnerable to any of them, this is what's brave about. There's nothing brave about that.
Like, Andrew Tate's brave because he fights Muay Thai. That's brave. That's brave. Like, even ground with another man, bare hands. Let's do this thing. Yeah, that's brave. But having a bunch of women and sort of not committing to any of them, not having being vulnerable to any of them, this is what's brave about. There's nothing brave about that.
Like what's brave is I'm going to give you the ammo to hurt me. Like I'm going to give you the ability to hurt me. And I'm going to do it anyway. And I'm scared, but I'm going to do it anyway. And that's what makes it brave. And I think that that's the thing we've just lost in this culture. And that's where I think it's so backwards. We go, well, a prenup goes to the opposite direction.
Like what's brave is I'm going to give you the ammo to hurt me. Like I'm going to give you the ability to hurt me. And I'm going to do it anyway. And I'm scared, but I'm going to do it anyway. And that's what makes it brave. And I think that that's the thing we've just lost in this culture. And that's where I think it's so backwards. We go, well, a prenup goes to the opposite direction.
Like what's brave is I'm going to give you the ammo to hurt me. Like I'm going to give you the ability to hurt me. And I'm going to do it anyway. And I'm scared, but I'm going to do it anyway. And that's what makes it brave. And I think that that's the thing we've just lost in this culture. And that's where I think it's so backwards. We go, well, a prenup goes to the opposite direction.
Because a prenup is you're saying, well, I don't believe in this thing. It only works if you post it. That's insane. That's insane to say that, you know, if you don't—if you take any precautions at all or give any—or, by the way, more accurately, that if you don't trust it to the legislature of your state that you're not being brave, like, that's insane.
Because a prenup is you're saying, well, I don't believe in this thing. It only works if you post it. That's insane. That's insane to say that, you know, if you don't—if you take any precautions at all or give any—or, by the way, more accurately, that if you don't trust it to the legislature of your state that you're not being brave, like, that's insane.
Because a prenup is you're saying, well, I don't believe in this thing. It only works if you post it. That's insane. That's insane to say that, you know, if you don't—if you take any precautions at all or give any—or, by the way, more accurately, that if you don't trust it to the legislature of your state that you're not being brave, like, that's insane.
It's brave to merge your destiny with that of another person. It's brave to let someone see what you're afraid of, what you hope for and aspire to. Those are all— Like divorce is intimacy weaponized. Like it's – and I say it as someone who's been in the room with thousands of people going through it.
It's brave to merge your destiny with that of another person. It's brave to let someone see what you're afraid of, what you hope for and aspire to. Those are all— Like divorce is intimacy weaponized. Like it's – and I say it as someone who's been in the room with thousands of people going through it.
It's brave to merge your destiny with that of another person. It's brave to let someone see what you're afraid of, what you hope for and aspire to. Those are all— Like divorce is intimacy weaponized. Like it's – and I say it as someone who's been in the room with thousands of people going through it.
And I mean the pain and terror of this person who in hushed tones you whispered to them all the things you're most afraid of. when you trusted them more than anyone. And now they're going to use that against you in a public forum, in a courtroom. Like, my God, man. Thank God I have no idea what that feels like to have done to me. Like, it must be horrible. But again, like, is it worth it?
And I mean the pain and terror of this person who in hushed tones you whispered to them all the things you're most afraid of. when you trusted them more than anyone. And now they're going to use that against you in a public forum, in a courtroom. Like, my God, man. Thank God I have no idea what that feels like to have done to me. Like, it must be horrible. But again, like, is it worth it?
And I mean the pain and terror of this person who in hushed tones you whispered to them all the things you're most afraid of. when you trusted them more than anyone. And now they're going to use that against you in a public forum, in a courtroom. Like, my God, man. Thank God I have no idea what that feels like to have done to me. Like, it must be horrible. But again, like, is it worth it?
to try is it worth it yes but i think having conversations from the beginning about listen we've got to figure out like is this the kind of person who's gonna are you gonna hurt if you're mad at me if i tell you something you don't want to hear are you gonna throw at me these intimate things i shared with you because if you are pull the ripcord now and get out Like, get out.
to try is it worth it yes but i think having conversations from the beginning about listen we've got to figure out like is this the kind of person who's gonna are you gonna hurt if you're mad at me if i tell you something you don't want to hear are you gonna throw at me these intimate things i shared with you because if you are pull the ripcord now and get out Like, get out.
to try is it worth it yes but i think having conversations from the beginning about listen we've got to figure out like is this the kind of person who's gonna are you gonna hurt if you're mad at me if i tell you something you don't want to hear are you gonna throw at me these intimate things i shared with you because if you are pull the ripcord now and get out Like, get out.
Like, if you tell – I've had guys come to me, successful people come to me and say, yeah, I told her I want a prenup. And she was like, you know, well, if we have a prenup, I'm leaving. That's it. I'm like, okay. Then let her leave, man. Like, because if that's all, if you're saying, I love you, I love you more than anyone in the world and I'll love you forever. Great.
Like, if you tell – I've had guys come to me, successful people come to me and say, yeah, I told her I want a prenup. And she was like, you know, well, if we have a prenup, I'm leaving. That's it. I'm like, okay. Then let her leave, man. Like, because if that's all, if you're saying, I love you, I love you more than anyone in the world and I'll love you forever. Great.
Like, if you tell – I've had guys come to me, successful people come to me and say, yeah, I told her I want a prenup. And she was like, you know, well, if we have a prenup, I'm leaving. That's it. I'm like, okay. Then let her leave, man. Like, because if that's all, if you're saying, I love you, I love you more than anyone in the world and I'll love you forever. Great.
Could you, we sign this contract? Absolutely not. But then that's it. I don't even want to see you again. Wow. That changed fast. Because like a minute ago, you loved me more than anything in the world and you would never let me go under any circumstances and you never hurt me.
Could you, we sign this contract? Absolutely not. But then that's it. I don't even want to see you again. Wow. That changed fast. Because like a minute ago, you loved me more than anything in the world and you would never let me go under any circumstances and you never hurt me.
Could you, we sign this contract? Absolutely not. But then that's it. I don't even want to see you again. Wow. That changed fast. Because like a minute ago, you loved me more than anything in the world and you would never let me go under any circumstances and you never hurt me.
And now I just told you that there's a financial concern I have about letting the legislature make decisions about our future. And you've now decided you don't even like me anymore and we're out? That's a hell of a jump.
And now I just told you that there's a financial concern I have about letting the legislature make decisions about our future. And you've now decided you don't even like me anymore and we're out? That's a hell of a jump.
And now I just told you that there's a financial concern I have about letting the legislature make decisions about our future. And you've now decided you don't even like me anymore and we're out? That's a hell of a jump.
Yeah, but I mean, how do you reconcile that? Like, if they say, wow, why do you want that? Do you not have faith in our relationship? Now let's have a conversation. No, of course, of course I have faith in our relationship. Why would I want to marry you otherwise? Like, and what is it you're afraid of? Are you afraid that the contract will be lopsided? Because here's the thing. I want it to not be.
Yeah, but I mean, how do you reconcile that? Like, if they say, wow, why do you want that? Do you not have faith in our relationship? Now let's have a conversation. No, of course, of course I have faith in our relationship. Why would I want to marry you otherwise? Like, and what is it you're afraid of? Are you afraid that the contract will be lopsided? Because here's the thing. I want it to not be.
Yeah, but I mean, how do you reconcile that? Like, if they say, wow, why do you want that? Do you not have faith in our relationship? Now let's have a conversation. No, of course, of course I have faith in our relationship. Why would I want to marry you otherwise? Like, and what is it you're afraid of? Are you afraid that the contract will be lopsided? Because here's the thing. I want it to not be.
Like, I want to know what your—like, you know, I was having a conversation with the Trusted Prenup guys, and we were talking about marketing prenups. Like, how do you market prenups to people? And they were saying, like, you know, like, yeah, when you talk about it, it deepens the relationship and connection. Okay, that's a very feminine aspiration.
Like, I want to know what your—like, you know, I was having a conversation with the Trusted Prenup guys, and we were talking about marketing prenups. Like, how do you market prenups to people? And they were saying, like, you know, like, yeah, when you talk about it, it deepens the relationship and connection. Okay, that's a very feminine aspiration.
Like, I want to know what your—like, you know, I was having a conversation with the Trusted Prenup guys, and we were talking about marketing prenups. Like, how do you market prenups to people? And they were saying, like, you know, like, yeah, when you talk about it, it deepens the relationship and connection. Okay, that's a very feminine aspiration.
Like, that's a good way to sell prenups to women, right, is to say the conversations are going to deepen the connection, and there's going to be this sense of, like, hey, we're talking about what we expect of each other, what we're afraid of. And I was saying, well, for me, I think a great entry point for men in heterosexual relationships is to say, hey, you want your woman to feel safe, right?
Like, that's a good way to sell prenups to women, right, is to say the conversations are going to deepen the connection, and there's going to be this sense of, like, hey, we're talking about what we expect of each other, what we're afraid of. And I was saying, well, for me, I think a great entry point for men in heterosexual relationships is to say, hey, you want your woman to feel safe, right?
Like, that's a good way to sell prenups to women, right, is to say the conversations are going to deepen the connection, and there's going to be this sense of, like, hey, we're talking about what we expect of each other, what we're afraid of. And I was saying, well, for me, I think a great entry point for men in heterosexual relationships is to say, hey, you want your woman to feel safe, right?
Like, she's with you. She's safe. You know, her heart is safe. Her body is safe. Like, you're going to keep her safe. Yeah, provide her protection. Yeah, provide or protect her, right? So one of the best things about being a man, right, is the feeling of like, I love that. Like, you don't test that theory? Like, say to any man, I can't open this jar. We, okay, give me, look at that. Here you go.
Like, she's with you. She's safe. You know, her heart is safe. Her body is safe. Like, you're going to keep her safe. Yeah, provide her protection. Yeah, provide or protect her, right? So one of the best things about being a man, right, is the feeling of like, I love that. Like, you don't test that theory? Like, say to any man, I can't open this jar. We, okay, give me, look at that. Here you go.
Like, she's with you. She's safe. You know, her heart is safe. Her body is safe. Like, you're going to keep her safe. Yeah, provide her protection. Yeah, provide or protect her, right? So one of the best things about being a man, right, is the feeling of like, I love that. Like, you don't test that theory? Like, say to any man, I can't open this jar. We, okay, give me, look at that. Here you go.
Like, you know, we're thrilled for that opportunity. We all want to provide and protect. So, okay, why do we not turn the conversation about prenups into how can she feel loved if she doesn't feel safe? So, okay, in that situation where he has more resources than her and she says, you know, I'd like to be a mom someday or there's a good chance I'd be a mom someday.
Like, you know, we're thrilled for that opportunity. We all want to provide and protect. So, okay, why do we not turn the conversation about prenups into how can she feel loved if she doesn't feel safe? So, okay, in that situation where he has more resources than her and she says, you know, I'd like to be a mom someday or there's a good chance I'd be a mom someday.
Like, you know, we're thrilled for that opportunity. We all want to provide and protect. So, okay, why do we not turn the conversation about prenups into how can she feel loved if she doesn't feel safe? So, okay, in that situation where he has more resources than her and she says, you know, I'd like to be a mom someday or there's a good chance I'd be a mom someday.
So if I'm going to be the primary caretaker of our children and your career is going to stay your focus so you can provide, right, then you're going to get way ahead of me in the race in terms of economics. So we need to figure out, like, how we would deal with that imbalance, right? Who would say that's not a fair conversation?
So if I'm going to be the primary caretaker of our children and your career is going to stay your focus so you can provide, right, then you're going to get way ahead of me in the race in terms of economics. So we need to figure out, like, how we would deal with that imbalance, right? Who would say that's not a fair conversation?
So if I'm going to be the primary caretaker of our children and your career is going to stay your focus so you can provide, right, then you're going to get way ahead of me in the race in terms of economics. So we need to figure out, like, how we would deal with that imbalance, right? Who would say that's not a fair conversation?
Who would say... Now, look, if you bring it up when we've decided we hate each other and the relationship is over and I've been sleeping with my secretary, okay, yeah, now I get why you don't want to have a fair conversation about that. But at the beginning...
Who would say... Now, look, if you bring it up when we've decided we hate each other and the relationship is over and I've been sleeping with my secretary, okay, yeah, now I get why you don't want to have a fair conversation about that. But at the beginning...
Who would say... Now, look, if you bring it up when we've decided we hate each other and the relationship is over and I've been sleeping with my secretary, okay, yeah, now I get why you don't want to have a fair conversation about that. But at the beginning...
When we're still abundance of optimism, we're still feeling positive about this, would any man say, well, you're being greedy, you're being a gold digger? No, you'd say, hey, listen, of course, like you're going to make certain sacrifices and focus on certain things. And, you know, I rarely have ever met a couple, a happy couple, that they go, we brought the exact same things to the relationship.
When we're still abundance of optimism, we're still feeling positive about this, would any man say, well, you're being greedy, you're being a gold digger? No, you'd say, hey, listen, of course, like you're going to make certain sacrifices and focus on certain things. And, you know, I rarely have ever met a couple, a happy couple, that they go, we brought the exact same things to the relationship.
When we're still abundance of optimism, we're still feeling positive about this, would any man say, well, you're being greedy, you're being a gold digger? No, you'd say, hey, listen, of course, like you're going to make certain sacrifices and focus on certain things. And, you know, I rarely have ever met a couple, a happy couple, that they go, we brought the exact same things to the relationship.
She's a great provider and I'm a great provider. No, complementarity is what it's about. Of course, right? And so say that out loud to each other. Maybe you don't want to announce it to everybody and put it on your social media, but you can talk to each other privately about, hey, what do we owe each other? What do we expect of each other? If we split up, what should it look like?
She's a great provider and I'm a great provider. No, complementarity is what it's about. Of course, right? And so say that out loud to each other. Maybe you don't want to announce it to everybody and put it on your social media, but you can talk to each other privately about, hey, what do we owe each other? What do we expect of each other? If we split up, what should it look like?
She's a great provider and I'm a great provider. No, complementarity is what it's about. Of course, right? And so say that out loud to each other. Maybe you don't want to announce it to everybody and put it on your social media, but you can talk to each other privately about, hey, what do we owe each other? What do we expect of each other? If we split up, what should it look like?
What would you need? What would I need? And you can talk about that in very practical ways. And I think that's actually quite romantic because what you're saying is, I want you to feel safe. I want you to feel safe that even if, because I don't, I'll tell you, for me, even just selfishly, I don't want you here because you don't know what you're going to do economically if we split up.
What would you need? What would I need? And you can talk about that in very practical ways. And I think that's actually quite romantic because what you're saying is, I want you to feel safe. I want you to feel safe that even if, because I don't, I'll tell you, for me, even just selfishly, I don't want you here because you don't know what you're going to do economically if we split up.
What would you need? What would I need? And you can talk about that in very practical ways. And I think that's actually quite romantic because what you're saying is, I want you to feel safe. I want you to feel safe that even if, because I don't, I'll tell you, for me, even just selfishly, I don't want you here because you don't know what you're going to do economically if we split up.
It's not a good reason to stay with me. I want you to want me next to you because you like me. You like having me around. Your life is better for my presence in it on a day-to-day basis. Not that, well, who's going to pay my rent? You know, I'd want, you know what? I'll pay your rent. You can have your rent paid. Are you still here?
It's not a good reason to stay with me. I want you to want me next to you because you like me. You like having me around. Your life is better for my presence in it on a day-to-day basis. Not that, well, who's going to pay my rent? You know, I'd want, you know what? I'll pay your rent. You can have your rent paid. Are you still here?
It's not a good reason to stay with me. I want you to want me next to you because you like me. You like having me around. Your life is better for my presence in it on a day-to-day basis. Not that, well, who's going to pay my rent? You know, I'd want, you know what? I'll pay your rent. You can have your rent paid. Are you still here?
Because if someone says, if I say, hey, if I paid you, like somebody said to me the other day, if somebody gave you $100 million, would you still do your job? Would you still be a lawyer? And I was like, absolutely. Absolutely. Would I do it at the level I'm doing it currently? Would I be as stressed about it as I currently am? Probably not. But I would still do the job because I love the job.
Because if someone says, if I say, hey, if I paid you, like somebody said to me the other day, if somebody gave you $100 million, would you still do your job? Would you still be a lawyer? And I was like, absolutely. Absolutely. Would I do it at the level I'm doing it currently? Would I be as stressed about it as I currently am? Probably not. But I would still do the job because I love the job.
Because if someone says, if I say, hey, if I paid you, like somebody said to me the other day, if somebody gave you $100 million, would you still do your job? Would you still be a lawyer? And I was like, absolutely. Absolutely. Would I do it at the level I'm doing it currently? Would I be as stressed about it as I currently am? Probably not. But I would still do the job because I love the job.
And the answer is, if you had $100 million tomorrow, would you still do the podcast? Absolutely. If the answer is no, stop.
And the answer is, if you had $100 million tomorrow, would you still do the podcast? Absolutely. If the answer is no, stop.
And the answer is, if you had $100 million tomorrow, would you still do the podcast? Absolutely. If the answer is no, stop.
Right. And so so and by the way, let's take that further. Right. You get tremendous value out of it. And the people who are participating in it, audience and the co-producers of it all get something out of it, too. This is a totally wonderful economy. Everyone's getting some advertisers getting something out of it. Everyone's getting something out of it.
Right. And so so and by the way, let's take that further. Right. You get tremendous value out of it. And the people who are participating in it, audience and the co-producers of it all get something out of it, too. This is a totally wonderful economy. Everyone's getting some advertisers getting something out of it. Everyone's getting something out of it.
Right. And so so and by the way, let's take that further. Right. You get tremendous value out of it. And the people who are participating in it, audience and the co-producers of it all get something out of it, too. This is a totally wonderful economy. Everyone's getting some advertisers getting something out of it. Everyone's getting something out of it.
It's like win, win, win for everybody involved. Right. Okay, so in the relationship between a man and a woman or a man and a man and a woman and a woman because of marriage equality, in a romantic relationship, in a marriage, if you said to your partner, I'll give you $10 million to give up this person, if the answer is see ya, then that's not the person to be with. Definitely not.
It's like win, win, win for everybody involved. Right. Okay, so in the relationship between a man and a woman or a man and a man and a woman and a woman because of marriage equality, in a romantic relationship, in a marriage, if you said to your partner, I'll give you $10 million to give up this person, if the answer is see ya, then that's not the person to be with. Definitely not.
It's like win, win, win for everybody involved. Right. Okay, so in the relationship between a man and a woman or a man and a man and a woman and a woman because of marriage equality, in a romantic relationship, in a marriage, if you said to your partner, I'll give you $10 million to give up this person, if the answer is see ya, then that's not the person to be with. Definitely not.
Okay, so I would rather have that conversation early on. Like, if you want to talk about barriers to exit, by the way, you can put anything you want in a prenup. So you can put in financial terms in a prenup that will give this person a financial windfall. I had a client who was a young man in his 30s. He was a Goldman, I can say that. And he was worth like 30, 40 million bucks at the age of 30.
Okay, so I would rather have that conversation early on. Like, if you want to talk about barriers to exit, by the way, you can put anything you want in a prenup. So you can put in financial terms in a prenup that will give this person a financial windfall. I had a client who was a young man in his 30s. He was a Goldman, I can say that. And he was worth like 30, 40 million bucks at the age of 30.
Okay, so I would rather have that conversation early on. Like, if you want to talk about barriers to exit, by the way, you can put anything you want in a prenup. So you can put in financial terms in a prenup that will give this person a financial windfall. I had a client who was a young man in his 30s. He was a Goldman, I can say that. And he was worth like 30, 40 million bucks at the age of 30.
So he was in the beginning of his career. I mean, he was going to do well in life. That's a lot of money. And he was marrying... A yoga teacher who made like no money at all. Stunningly beautiful, funny, brilliant, like just insightful, spiritual. He was very quant, very analytical. And she just lightened him up and was adventurous and fun. It was very barefoot in the park.
So he was in the beginning of his career. I mean, he was going to do well in life. That's a lot of money. And he was marrying... A yoga teacher who made like no money at all. Stunningly beautiful, funny, brilliant, like just insightful, spiritual. He was very quant, very analytical. And she just lightened him up and was adventurous and fun. It was very barefoot in the park.
So he was in the beginning of his career. I mean, he was going to do well in life. That's a lot of money. And he was marrying... A yoga teacher who made like no money at all. Stunningly beautiful, funny, brilliant, like just insightful, spiritual. He was very quant, very analytical. And she just lightened him up and was adventurous and fun. It was very barefoot in the park.
It was very like he kind of reeled her in a little and she pulled him out of his comfort zone. And it was like a really nice coupling. And they did this prenup. And, of course, they both lawyered up with good lawyers, right? So he hired me and she hired a colleague of mine at a great firm in the city who I have a lot of cases with. And the lawyers went at our thing, you know.
It was very like he kind of reeled her in a little and she pulled him out of his comfort zone. And it was like a really nice coupling. And they did this prenup. And, of course, they both lawyered up with good lawyers, right? So he hired me and she hired a colleague of mine at a great firm in the city who I have a lot of cases with. And the lawyers went at our thing, you know.
It was very like he kind of reeled her in a little and she pulled him out of his comfort zone. And it was like a really nice coupling. And they did this prenup. And, of course, they both lawyered up with good lawyers, right? So he hired me and she hired a colleague of mine at a great firm in the city who I have a lot of cases with. And the lawyers went at our thing, you know.
People like you give lawyers, like, we get hives. Like, you say that and I instantly start, like, you know.
People like you give lawyers, like, we get hives. Like, you say that and I instantly start, like, you know.
People like you give lawyers, like, we get hives. Like, you say that and I instantly start, like, you know.
And so I put in a waiver of any alimony, spousal support. And the other side came back and said, no, no, if they're married this many years, it's this percent. And if it's this many years, it's that percent. So I go to my client because this is kind of a negotiation, but it's with a person who he's been going home to every night because they're cohabitating already, you know.
And so I put in a waiver of any alimony, spousal support. And the other side came back and said, no, no, if they're married this many years, it's this percent. And if it's this many years, it's that percent. So I go to my client because this is kind of a negotiation, but it's with a person who he's been going home to every night because they're cohabitating already, you know.
And so I put in a waiver of any alimony, spousal support. And the other side came back and said, no, no, if they're married this many years, it's this percent. And if it's this many years, it's that percent. So I go to my client because this is kind of a negotiation, but it's with a person who he's been going home to every night because they're cohabitating already, you know.
And I say to him, like, listen, they want this structure and this amount for it. And he goes, yeah, just like put like five million bucks. I was like, wait, what? And he goes, yeah, like if we get divorced, she gets five million bucks. I was like, wait, if you get divorced in a month because she's sleeping with her tennis instructor, she gets five million bucks? And he's like, yeah, you know what?
And I say to him, like, listen, they want this structure and this amount for it. And he goes, yeah, just like put like five million bucks. I was like, wait, what? And he goes, yeah, like if we get divorced, she gets five million bucks. I was like, wait, if you get divorced in a month because she's sleeping with her tennis instructor, she gets five million bucks? And he's like, yeah, you know what?
And I say to him, like, listen, they want this structure and this amount for it. And he goes, yeah, just like put like five million bucks. I was like, wait, what? And he goes, yeah, like if we get divorced, she gets five million bucks. I was like, wait, if you get divorced in a month because she's sleeping with her tennis instructor, she gets five million bucks? And he's like, yeah, you know what?
If we get divorced, I got bigger problems. Like just, you know, like, yeah, just like, you know, I'll know that if she's staying, I'll know she likes me more than five million bucks. So that's good. Good for him. And I thought, you know what? Like, that is gangster in a good way. Like, I loved that. And they're still married. Like, and that was probably 10 years ago, you know?
If we get divorced, I got bigger problems. Like just, you know, like, yeah, just like, you know, I'll know that if she's staying, I'll know she likes me more than five million bucks. So that's good. Good for him. And I thought, you know what? Like, that is gangster in a good way. Like, I loved that. And they're still married. Like, and that was probably 10 years ago, you know?
If we get divorced, I got bigger problems. Like just, you know, like, yeah, just like, you know, I'll know that if she's staying, I'll know she likes me more than five million bucks. So that's good. Good for him. And I thought, you know what? Like, that is gangster in a good way. Like, I loved that. And they're still married. Like, and that was probably 10 years ago, you know?
And they're, they got a couple of kids now. Like, and I, in that moment, I remember thinking, yeah, they're going to be fine probably, these two, you know?
And they're, they got a couple of kids now. Like, and I, in that moment, I remember thinking, yeah, they're going to be fine probably, these two, you know?
And they're, they got a couple of kids now. Like, and I, in that moment, I remember thinking, yeah, they're going to be fine probably, these two, you know?
Like I represent – I have a couple of billionaire clients. Like one of my clients is worth $8 billion. Yeah. You know, it's like Stalin said, the death of one is a tragedy. The death of a million is a statistic. Like, I think if I said to you, Andrew, great news, you've won $150 million. I'm sorry, $130 million. You wouldn't go, ah. Like the numbers on a page are numbers on a page.
Like I represent – I have a couple of billionaire clients. Like one of my clients is worth $8 billion. Yeah. You know, it's like Stalin said, the death of one is a tragedy. The death of a million is a statistic. Like, I think if I said to you, Andrew, great news, you've won $150 million. I'm sorry, $130 million. You wouldn't go, ah. Like the numbers on a page are numbers on a page.
Like I represent – I have a couple of billionaire clients. Like one of my clients is worth $8 billion. Yeah. You know, it's like Stalin said, the death of one is a tragedy. The death of a million is a statistic. Like, I think if I said to you, Andrew, great news, you've won $150 million. I'm sorry, $130 million. You wouldn't go, ah. Like the numbers on a page are numbers on a page.
There's just no – you couldn't possibly spend that amount of money. Right. The amount of money that money makes on an annual basis just in interest alone is insane.
There's just no – you couldn't possibly spend that amount of money. Right. The amount of money that money makes on an annual basis just in interest alone is insane.
There's just no – you couldn't possibly spend that amount of money. Right. The amount of money that money makes on an annual basis just in interest alone is insane.
Well, there's no way that $5 million isn't enough for her to be okay. And I want her to be okay. I want her to be safe. It was an act of care. Right. And he was saying, you know, because look, when you marry someone the right way or even cohabitate with someone or even get in a relationship with someone, you're kind of handing them a dagger and saying, okay, here you go. Here you go.
Well, there's no way that $5 million isn't enough for her to be okay. And I want her to be okay. I want her to be safe. It was an act of care. Right. And he was saying, you know, because look, when you marry someone the right way or even cohabitate with someone or even get in a relationship with someone, you're kind of handing them a dagger and saying, okay, here you go. Here you go.
Well, there's no way that $5 million isn't enough for her to be okay. And I want her to be okay. I want her to be safe. It was an act of care. Right. And he was saying, you know, because look, when you marry someone the right way or even cohabitate with someone or even get in a relationship with someone, you're kind of handing them a dagger and saying, okay, here you go. Here you go.
If you want to, it's yours. If you want to stab me with that, here it is. Here's my soft spots. I'm going to show you where they all are. And I'm giving you that. And again, I think that's the bravest thing in the world. And I think it's the coolest thing in the world.
If you want to, it's yours. If you want to stab me with that, here it is. Here's my soft spots. I'm going to show you where they all are. And I'm giving you that. And again, I think that's the bravest thing in the world. And I think it's the coolest thing in the world.
If you want to, it's yours. If you want to stab me with that, here it is. Here's my soft spots. I'm going to show you where they all are. And I'm giving you that. And again, I think that's the bravest thing in the world. And I think it's the coolest thing in the world.
Yeah. Well, and you're a romantic at heart. I mean, that's a function of our – like our friendship is born of the fact that I think you're a romantic at heart and I think you're – I think the people who have had their ass kicked by love – and still go, yeah, I'm going to do it again. Let's do it.
Yeah. Well, and you're a romantic at heart. I mean, that's a function of our – like our friendship is born of the fact that I think you're a romantic at heart and I think you're – I think the people who have had their ass kicked by love – and still go, yeah, I'm going to do it again. Let's do it.
Yeah. Well, and you're a romantic at heart. I mean, that's a function of our – like our friendship is born of the fact that I think you're a romantic at heart and I think you're – I think the people who have had their ass kicked by love – and still go, yeah, I'm going to do it again. Let's do it.
I love that.
I love that.
I love that.
I love that. And by the way, that's the statistic that everybody forgets, which is 56% of marriages end in divorce and 85% of people who get divorced are remarried within five years.
I love that. And by the way, that's the statistic that everybody forgets, which is 56% of marriages end in divorce and 85% of people who get divorced are remarried within five years.
I love that. And by the way, that's the statistic that everybody forgets, which is 56% of marriages end in divorce and 85% of people who get divorced are remarried within five years.
It's an incredible statistic. And usually I do their prenup. I tell all of my clients, by the way, that if I did your litigated divorce, I will do any prenup for you for any subsequent marriage for free. And I've only had three clients take me up on it. So people are braver than one might think. I think so. I think, look, I think discretion is the better part of all valor. So I think...
It's an incredible statistic. And usually I do their prenup. I tell all of my clients, by the way, that if I did your litigated divorce, I will do any prenup for you for any subsequent marriage for free. And I've only had three clients take me up on it. So people are braver than one might think. I think so. I think, look, I think discretion is the better part of all valor. So I think...
It's an incredible statistic. And usually I do their prenup. I tell all of my clients, by the way, that if I did your litigated divorce, I will do any prenup for you for any subsequent marriage for free. And I've only had three clients take me up on it. So people are braver than one might think. I think so. I think, look, I think discretion is the better part of all valor. So I think...
I'm a fan of bravery, but I'm also a pragmatic human being, and I think there is value in saying, okay, let's dive into this thing. Let's do it brave. Let's do it – but see, again, I think bravery on the front end, which is bravely having a conversation about – What does this look like if we hurt each other? What if we end up like the majority of people? What do we do? Like, what do we do?
I'm a fan of bravery, but I'm also a pragmatic human being, and I think there is value in saying, okay, let's dive into this thing. Let's do it brave. Let's do it – but see, again, I think bravery on the front end, which is bravely having a conversation about – What does this look like if we hurt each other? What if we end up like the majority of people? What do we do? Like, what do we do?
I'm a fan of bravery, but I'm also a pragmatic human being, and I think there is value in saying, okay, let's dive into this thing. Let's do it brave. Let's do it – but see, again, I think bravery on the front end, which is bravely having a conversation about – What does this look like if we hurt each other? What if we end up like the majority of people? What do we do? Like, what do we do?
You know, and there's value in that conversation. Come on, any heterosexual man is going to tell you they've been in a conversation with the woman in their life where she goes, if I was missing a leg, would you still love me? And you're like, what? Where did that come from? Like, you know, like, because what's the person saying?
You know, and there's value in that conversation. Come on, any heterosexual man is going to tell you they've been in a conversation with the woman in their life where she goes, if I was missing a leg, would you still love me? And you're like, what? Where did that come from? Like, you know, like, because what's the person saying?
You know, and there's value in that conversation. Come on, any heterosexual man is going to tell you they've been in a conversation with the woman in their life where she goes, if I was missing a leg, would you still love me? And you're like, what? Where did that come from? Like, you know, like, because what's the person saying?
They're saying, hey, you know, like, if I wasn't exactly who I am, like, what parts of me would you have to lose for me to not love me anymore? Like, I understand that question for what it is. I mean, to some degree, it's a thought exercise. It's anecdotal. It's funny. You know, and my response to it is always like a whole leg. Forget it. Like, you break a nail amount.
They're saying, hey, you know, like, if I wasn't exactly who I am, like, what parts of me would you have to lose for me to not love me anymore? Like, I understand that question for what it is. I mean, to some degree, it's a thought exercise. It's anecdotal. It's funny. You know, and my response to it is always like a whole leg. Forget it. Like, you break a nail amount.
They're saying, hey, you know, like, if I wasn't exactly who I am, like, what parts of me would you have to lose for me to not love me anymore? Like, I understand that question for what it is. I mean, to some degree, it's a thought exercise. It's anecdotal. It's funny. You know, and my response to it is always like a whole leg. Forget it. Like, you break a nail amount.
But I also think that there's another way to look at it. So I grew up watching L.A. Law. I think it's part of the reason why I became a lawyer is I loved that show. I tried watching it recently. It's up on one of the streaming services, and it didn't age well. But I grew up watching.
But I also think that there's another way to look at it. So I grew up watching L.A. Law. I think it's part of the reason why I became a lawyer is I loved that show. I tried watching it recently. It's up on one of the streaming services, and it didn't age well. But I grew up watching.
But I also think that there's another way to look at it. So I grew up watching L.A. Law. I think it's part of the reason why I became a lawyer is I loved that show. I tried watching it recently. It's up on one of the streaming services, and it didn't age well. But I grew up watching.
Yeah, and also like some of the plots, like there's gender stuff in there that you're like, oh, my God, you know. And it's also as a lawyer, it's very hard as a lawyer to watch lawyer shows because you're like that would never happen. Objection leading, like you find yourself going like this.
Yeah, and also like some of the plots, like there's gender stuff in there that you're like, oh, my God, you know. And it's also as a lawyer, it's very hard as a lawyer to watch lawyer shows because you're like that would never happen. Objection leading, like you find yourself going like this.
Yeah, and also like some of the plots, like there's gender stuff in there that you're like, oh, my God, you know. And it's also as a lawyer, it's very hard as a lawyer to watch lawyer shows because you're like that would never happen. Objection leading, like you find yourself going like this.
But I grew up watching it and I wanted to be – Jimmy Smits played this really cool criminal defense attorney called Victor Sufuentes and he had an earring. And I was like, I'm going to be him. Instead, I ended up becoming Arnie Becker, which was the divorce lawyer on the show that, you know, like Corbin Bernson played him. And I'd never imagined that's who I would grow up to be.
But I grew up watching it and I wanted to be – Jimmy Smits played this really cool criminal defense attorney called Victor Sufuentes and he had an earring. And I was like, I'm going to be him. Instead, I ended up becoming Arnie Becker, which was the divorce lawyer on the show that, you know, like Corbin Bernson played him. And I'd never imagined that's who I would grow up to be.
But I grew up watching it and I wanted to be – Jimmy Smits played this really cool criminal defense attorney called Victor Sufuentes and he had an earring. And I was like, I'm going to be him. Instead, I ended up becoming Arnie Becker, which was the divorce lawyer on the show that, you know, like Corbin Bernson played him. And I'd never imagined that's who I would grow up to be.
But it definitely created in me this love of the law. But there was a character on the show named Benny and he was developmentally disabled and he worked in like the copy room. And he has a crush on this secretary. And she says something to him about, well, I'm trying, like she's eating a salad. And he says, well, why are you eating that for lunch? Like, you know, that doesn't look very good.
But it definitely created in me this love of the law. But there was a character on the show named Benny and he was developmentally disabled and he worked in like the copy room. And he has a crush on this secretary. And she says something to him about, well, I'm trying, like she's eating a salad. And he says, well, why are you eating that for lunch? Like, you know, that doesn't look very good.
But it definitely created in me this love of the law. But there was a character on the show named Benny and he was developmentally disabled and he worked in like the copy room. And he has a crush on this secretary. And she says something to him about, well, I'm trying, like she's eating a salad. And he says, well, why are you eating that for lunch? Like, you know, that doesn't look very good.
And she says, well, I want to be skinnier. And he says, why do you want to be skinnier? And she says, well, because if, you know, if I lost 20 pounds, you know, I'd be prettier. And he says, no, you'd just be smaller. And there's a simplicity to that that's completely honest. Like, no, there'd just be less of you. You know, like when someone says, if I gained 50 pounds, would you still love me?
And she says, well, I want to be skinnier. And he says, why do you want to be skinnier? And she says, well, because if, you know, if I lost 20 pounds, you know, I'd be prettier. And he says, no, you'd just be smaller. And there's a simplicity to that that's completely honest. Like, no, there'd just be less of you. You know, like when someone says, if I gained 50 pounds, would you still love me?
And she says, well, I want to be skinnier. And he says, why do you want to be skinnier? And she says, well, because if, you know, if I lost 20 pounds, you know, I'd be prettier. And he says, no, you'd just be smaller. And there's a simplicity to that that's completely honest. Like, no, there'd just be less of you. You know, like when someone says, if I gained 50 pounds, would you still love me?
I hear that as both A, a thought experiment, B, you're looking for me to reassure you how much I love you. But also what you're saying is if something changed, like what about me can change and what about me can't? Like what would be the things about me that could change? Because by the way, sometimes things change totally beyond our control. You know, the tumor is what made you gain weight.
I hear that as both A, a thought experiment, B, you're looking for me to reassure you how much I love you. But also what you're saying is if something changed, like what about me can change and what about me can't? Like what would be the things about me that could change? Because by the way, sometimes things change totally beyond our control. You know, the tumor is what made you gain weight.
I hear that as both A, a thought experiment, B, you're looking for me to reassure you how much I love you. But also what you're saying is if something changed, like what about me can change and what about me can't? Like what would be the things about me that could change? Because by the way, sometimes things change totally beyond our control. You know, the tumor is what made you gain weight.
It wasn't that you liked Big Macs. Like, so if you gained weight because you were irresponsible in your eating habits versus you gained weight because of the tumor, these are two very different circumstances. But if what the person is saying is, what do you love about me? And what about me could change? And I would lose your love potentially.
It wasn't that you liked Big Macs. Like, so if you gained weight because you were irresponsible in your eating habits versus you gained weight because of the tumor, these are two very different circumstances. But if what the person is saying is, what do you love about me? And what about me could change? And I would lose your love potentially.
It wasn't that you liked Big Macs. Like, so if you gained weight because you were irresponsible in your eating habits versus you gained weight because of the tumor, these are two very different circumstances. But if what the person is saying is, what do you love about me? And what about me could change? And I would lose your love potentially.
Again, what is that conversation but the prenup conversation? It's what do we mean to each other? What do we owe to each other? Where do we store value in this relationship? And when it changes, not if, when it changes, what changes can we communicate? How can we communicate about what those changes feel like? Because here's the thing.
Again, what is that conversation but the prenup conversation? It's what do we mean to each other? What do we owe to each other? Where do we store value in this relationship? And when it changes, not if, when it changes, what changes can we communicate? How can we communicate about what those changes feel like? Because here's the thing.
Again, what is that conversation but the prenup conversation? It's what do we mean to each other? What do we owe to each other? Where do we store value in this relationship? And when it changes, not if, when it changes, what changes can we communicate? How can we communicate about what those changes feel like? Because here's the thing.
If we're having less sex 10 years into the relationship, I don't think that's abnormal. Like, when you're first dating... the amount of sex you're having, and the amount of sex you're having 10 years later with two kids is probably going to be different and probably less. Does that mean something's wrong in your relationship? Not necessarily. Like you're also aging. That might change.
If we're having less sex 10 years into the relationship, I don't think that's abnormal. Like, when you're first dating... the amount of sex you're having, and the amount of sex you're having 10 years later with two kids is probably going to be different and probably less. Does that mean something's wrong in your relationship? Not necessarily. Like you're also aging. That might change.
If we're having less sex 10 years into the relationship, I don't think that's abnormal. Like, when you're first dating... the amount of sex you're having, and the amount of sex you're having 10 years later with two kids is probably going to be different and probably less. Does that mean something's wrong in your relationship? Not necessarily. Like you're also aging. That might change.
Your testosterone levels change. Maybe her body changes when you had kids. Who knows? By the way, if you're having more sex, does it mean your relationship's healthy? Not necessarily, right? So the question becomes is when things change, How will we check in about it? Because I don't think let's just pretend everything's exactly the same and it's fine. It's fine. It's fine.
Your testosterone levels change. Maybe her body changes when you had kids. Who knows? By the way, if you're having more sex, does it mean your relationship's healthy? Not necessarily, right? So the question becomes is when things change, How will we check in about it? Because I don't think let's just pretend everything's exactly the same and it's fine. It's fine. It's fine.
Your testosterone levels change. Maybe her body changes when you had kids. Who knows? By the way, if you're having more sex, does it mean your relationship's healthy? Not necessarily, right? So the question becomes is when things change, How will we check in about it? Because I don't think let's just pretend everything's exactly the same and it's fine. It's fine. It's fine.
I don't think that's the answer. I think that's what gets us a 56% divorce rate.
I don't think that's the answer. I think that's what gets us a 56% divorce rate.
I don't think that's the answer. I think that's what gets us a 56% divorce rate.
It's just a saying, but— Yeah, I mean, there's a lot of good axioms. The one I've heard before that I think is similar is that women marry the man they want to spend the rest of their life with, and men marry the woman they don't want to imagine the rest of their life without. That's a more romantic version.
It's just a saying, but— Yeah, I mean, there's a lot of good axioms. The one I've heard before that I think is similar is that women marry the man they want to spend the rest of their life with, and men marry the woman they don't want to imagine the rest of their life without. That's a more romantic version.
It's just a saying, but— Yeah, I mean, there's a lot of good axioms. The one I've heard before that I think is similar is that women marry the man they want to spend the rest of their life with, and men marry the woman they don't want to imagine the rest of their life without. That's a more romantic version.
Women are parsing it in the imagined future with this person, and men are thinking about the imagined future loss. I've spent a lot of time in the room with people who have recently been caught or caught their spouse cheating. And the most common question the man wants to know is, did you fuck him? And the most common question the women want to know is, do you love her?
Women are parsing it in the imagined future with this person, and men are thinking about the imagined future loss. I've spent a lot of time in the room with people who have recently been caught or caught their spouse cheating. And the most common question the man wants to know is, did you fuck him? And the most common question the women want to know is, do you love her?
Women are parsing it in the imagined future with this person, and men are thinking about the imagined future loss. I've spent a lot of time in the room with people who have recently been caught or caught their spouse cheating. And the most common question the man wants to know is, did you fuck him? And the most common question the women want to know is, do you love her?
And that says something about value for those two people. Because for the man, it's like, did you betray me physically, right? And for the woman, it's like, do you not – do I have no value to you anymore? Do you not love me? Do you want this person more than you want me? It's more about the value than the sex necessarily, right? And again, I'm not saying all men. I'm not saying all women.
And that says something about value for those two people. Because for the man, it's like, did you betray me physically, right? And for the woman, it's like, do you not – do I have no value to you anymore? Do you not love me? Do you want this person more than you want me? It's more about the value than the sex necessarily, right? And again, I'm not saying all men. I'm not saying all women.
And that says something about value for those two people. Because for the man, it's like, did you betray me physically, right? And for the woman, it's like, do you not – do I have no value to you anymore? Do you not love me? Do you want this person more than you want me? It's more about the value than the sex necessarily, right? And again, I'm not saying all men. I'm not saying all women.
But I think there is a sense in men – A lot of the men, I say this even in my personal relationships with male friends, that they're like, yeah, like once they find someone that they're like, yeah, I just can't imagine like her not being here. And they marry because they're like, I got to marry her or else I'm going to lose her.
But I think there is a sense in men – A lot of the men, I say this even in my personal relationships with male friends, that they're like, yeah, like once they find someone that they're like, yeah, I just can't imagine like her not being here. And they marry because they're like, I got to marry her or else I'm going to lose her.
But I think there is a sense in men – A lot of the men, I say this even in my personal relationships with male friends, that they're like, yeah, like once they find someone that they're like, yeah, I just can't imagine like her not being here. And they marry because they're like, I got to marry her or else I'm going to lose her.
You know, like I've never met a guy who was like, I can't wait for my wedding day. And I've imagined my tux and I just can't wait. Like it's not, it's just not something men, I don't know a lot of men that like could dreaming of their wedding day.
You know, like I've never met a guy who was like, I can't wait for my wedding day. And I've imagined my tux and I just can't wait. Like it's not, it's just not something men, I don't know a lot of men that like could dreaming of their wedding day.
You know, like I've never met a guy who was like, I can't wait for my wedding day. And I've imagined my tux and I just can't wait. Like it's not, it's just not something men, I don't know a lot of men that like could dreaming of their wedding day.
Whereas I know a lot of women, again, some of that's cultural that we've been shoving weddings down women's throats and you get to be a princess for a day and wear the dress and everyone's paying attention to you because the bride's the star of the show. You know, I get it.
Whereas I know a lot of women, again, some of that's cultural that we've been shoving weddings down women's throats and you get to be a princess for a day and wear the dress and everyone's paying attention to you because the bride's the star of the show. You know, I get it.
Whereas I know a lot of women, again, some of that's cultural that we've been shoving weddings down women's throats and you get to be a princess for a day and wear the dress and everyone's paying attention to you because the bride's the star of the show. You know, I get it.
And every one of the things you just named are awesome. They're great. Like those are all positive things. Like from the cake to the bachelor party, bachelorette party, to the dress, to the way we're going to have photos taken to commemorate the moment and sort of have this snapshot in time of who we were and who our families were. Like all of that, how could you not cheer for that?
And every one of the things you just named are awesome. They're great. Like those are all positive things. Like from the cake to the bachelor party, bachelorette party, to the dress, to the way we're going to have photos taken to commemorate the moment and sort of have this snapshot in time of who we were and who our families were. Like all of that, how could you not cheer for that?
And every one of the things you just named are awesome. They're great. Like those are all positive things. Like from the cake to the bachelor party, bachelorette party, to the dress, to the way we're going to have photos taken to commemorate the moment and sort of have this snapshot in time of who we were and who our families were. Like all of that, how could you not cheer for that?
But there is also something about the idea that like, you know, most of the men I know, they're like, yeah, we got married because it's like, you know, like that's what you do. Like you make an honest woman of her, you know, like that's her parents would have killed me if we didn't get married. Her friends were all getting married.
But there is also something about the idea that like, you know, most of the men I know, they're like, yeah, we got married because it's like, you know, like that's what you do. Like you make an honest woman of her, you know, like that's her parents would have killed me if we didn't get married. Her friends were all getting married.
But there is also something about the idea that like, you know, most of the men I know, they're like, yeah, we got married because it's like, you know, like that's what you do. Like you make an honest woman of her, you know, like that's her parents would have killed me if we didn't get married. Her friends were all getting married.
So it was like, you know, all of her friends, she's been a bridesmaid eight times. Like I was like, it's about time, you know, whereas women very often it's like, where is this going? Where is this going? Are we moving? And again, there's probably a myriad of reasons why. evolutionary, biological, having to do with procreation.
So it was like, you know, all of her friends, she's been a bridesmaid eight times. Like I was like, it's about time, you know, whereas women very often it's like, where is this going? Where is this going? Are we moving? And again, there's probably a myriad of reasons why. evolutionary, biological, having to do with procreation.
So it was like, you know, all of her friends, she's been a bridesmaid eight times. Like I was like, it's about time, you know, whereas women very often it's like, where is this going? Where is this going? Are we moving? And again, there's probably a myriad of reasons why. evolutionary, biological, having to do with procreation.
Yeah.
And I think a good partner wants to understand the currents of their partner.
It's why like Rick and Morty, I think is brilliant because it's both smart and dumb.
Yeah, it's the perfect combination.
It really is, yeah.
I think it's possibly the perfect show.
Yeah, I think so.
I think what can be learned about interviewing is the distillation, like what...
What is most important?
When I hear a story that I have to present to a judge, the totality of someone's parenting, the good of their parenting, the bad of their parenting, the good of the other parent, the bad of the other parent, I have to sort of boil down what are the best examples because I can't lay it all out.
They want to understand like, hey, are you going through something?
And then what greater principle do they speak to?
You know, the best jujitsu teacher that I think I've had is Paul Schreiner.
And Paul doesn't teach, just teach you techniques.
He's teaching you ways of thinking about concepts in jujitsu.
And then here are some techniques that illustrate that.
John Donoher, from what I can see, does a lot of that as well.
And look, if I'm the one you need to take it out on, that's okay.
I think they're like soulmates in the jujitsu world.
Yeah.
Well, always.
Yeah.
I mean, straw man, steel man stuff.
You do a lot of that.
And I think all the best interviewers do.
But yeah, I think it's really, really important to think about.
I have to know the other side's case much better than my own.
You know, I have to know what are their defenses, what are their strengths.
I'm a big boy.
I have to map out a strategy that keeps those in mind.
And that's hard because early in my career, I would attribute to the other side an intelligence and strategy that sometimes wasn't applicable.
I can take it.
Like I've learned like, you know,
There's like the simplest explanation is the accurate one, the Occam's razor.
If you're hormonal, if you're frustrated at work, if you're whatever, we should be able to have a little bit of that interaction in a relationship.
I think like Sexton's, you know, would be never attribute to strategy that which could be attributed to stupidity or laziness.
Because I have lots of adversaries that like they'll not file a motion I thought they were going to file.
And I'll go, wait, why didn't they file that?
Like tactically, what are they thinking I'm going to do?
And what is that about?
You know, and I would go, well, if I didn't file it, why wouldn't I?
And the answer is like, they just didn't think to file it or like they were too lazy to draft it or they went on vacation last week.
So that's why they didn't.
And I'm,
Driving myself crazy going, there's some tactical reason, there must be.
So I think you have to look honestly and don't attribute to the other side your constitution.
If I said that, I'd be saying it sarcastically.
If you said it, maybe you weren't saying it sarcastically.
You have to think about the fact that we're unique human beings who express...
themselves differently.
No, we don't do jury trials.
That's the interesting thing about family law attorneys.
Family law attorneys don't do jury trials.
We do bench trials.
We just persuade.
There's a person in a black robe.
That's the only person I have to convince.
They are human.
They are all too human.
Oh, yeah.
Oh, yeah.
Oh, no.
Do you feel it?
Like they're human.
They're working their shit out.
They're parents.
They're husbands and wives.
And you're talking about stuff they deal with.
I had a woman on the stand, an expert witness on the stand, who was talking about the emotional and physical abuse that was perpetrated on a seven-year-old.
But I do think
And this person had written a bunch of reports that were in evidence in this trial.
We're on like day six or seven of the trial.
And there's all of this information in the record about this verbal abuse and mental abuse and like gaslighting and like really intense stuff that this woman was doing to this seven-year-old.
It's so easy to just say to people, communication is the key, but it really is about fearless kinds of communication.
And the judge was like vaguely paying attention for most of the time.
And at some point the person says, well, when a parent is abusing a child, and the judge just interrupts, she goes, well, look, you know, do you think like if a person spanks a child, that that's abuse?
She's like, well, like a person in general, like, and by the way, if my adversary asked that question, I could object, but I can't object when the judge asks the question.
They get to rule on that objection.
So I'm like,
where's this going?
She's like, well, no, I mean, spanking can be a form of abuse.
She's like, right, but like, you know, are you saying like everybody who spanks, and I'm sitting here going, what is going on in your house?
Yeah.
What went on with your parents?
Like, cause you're bringing some stuff here that's not, this is not what you're supposed to be.
This is not your role, you know?
But there are good judges and bad judges.
And that's a big, big deal.
It's about really honestly saying to somebody, this feels like something to me.
Oh, you wanna learn about this.
Represent someone who's accused of child sexual abuse.
I've had about a dozen of those cases where I've represented someone who's alleged to have perpetrated sexual abuse of a child.
You are guilty until proven innocent.
And let me tell you, as a lawyer,
That is the toughest cases because you put sex and kids together and everyone loses their goddamn mind immediately.
There's a rush to judgment.
There is a disregard for procedure.
There is a confirmation bias.
There's a desire to be a protector.
And again, all motivated and informed by really good things, the desire to protect the innocent, the desire to protect the vulnerable.
But gang,
No.
I like living in a world that has due process.
Am I wrong?
I like these rules.
I like the rules of evidence.
I like innocent until proven guilty.
This just feels like something to me.
I like that.
I'm not saying it's perfect.
Those two things aren't mutually exclusive.
They shouldn't be.
And also how that's presented.
I have to tell you, I once actually went off on a DA, on a district attorney, who was very vehemently prosecuting a child sex abuse case that I was involved in.
I mean, one of the things I'm very caught up on or feel very strongly about
And I remember I came in, thankfully, I came in very early in the case.
So the accusation was made and I came in right away.
Because very often you get this case, there've been 15 interviews, this person's been interviewed by police, by Child Protective Services.
And it's like, they're already so far down a hole they didn't even know they dug themselves into.
So I got in very early on and I just kept saying,
She's like, well, we're gonna do this.
We're gonna do this.
I was like, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait.
Don't, we should both want this to be fair, done properly.
Like there's an expert, a well-respected expert who's a clinical psychologist who their job is, they're a validation expert.
So their job is to interview a child.
They record the interviews with a hidden camera so that everyone can see they didn't ask suggestive questioning.
There are very stringent standards
that they follow to prevent like suggestive questioning or any of those kinds of things.
And I was saying, listen, no, no one should be interviewing this child other than this person who's a neutral, qualified person.
And I kept saying to the other side, like, wait, no, no, you're, see, this is the problem.
is that we have been encouraged culturally to criticize people we're in long-term relationships with.
Like you want to win.
You're a lawyer.
You want to win.
I want to win too.
Right.
But but but we want to win fair.
Like that's like saying, you know, I'm going into a boxing match.
I want to win.
So if the referee is looking to the side, I'm going to kick the guy in the nuts.
Like, OK, then then you might have won, but you didn't win boxing.
You won some other thing.
You know, like I want to win a fair fight.
Like I want to go in with the rules set, the law, the rules of evidence.
I don't want a judge who doesn't understand evidence.
I don't want an adversary who plays it fast and loose with the rules.
I want to go in and win a fair fight.
And that's where when it comes, our passion to protect the innocent, to emotionally connect, to feel deeply about children and protecting them, I don't think that that's antagonistic to, like we always treat dandruff with decapitation in this culture, and I don't understand it.
And that's what I like about the law.
The law, there's rules, and there's rules about procedure.
And so that's our job is to bring out the truth using the rules and the procedure.
And I love that job.
Not new relationships, new relationships, you put the person on a pedestal, you're allowed to just, oh, they're wonderful.
That's the problem.
You have to pay attention to the whole thing.
And everyone is trying to persuade you and lie to you.
Yeah.
And everyone can keep their shit together in a court appearance most of the time.
Yeah.
Like it takes a rare kind of crazy to blow up in a courtroom.
So most of the time everybody looks really put together and like, yeah, you got to have an amazing bullshit detector.
I'm not saying they don't have a really hard job.
They have a really hard job.
They have a way harder job than I have.
I think that they're assessing credibility, which is what you call it in the law, is something that, you know, I think you're supposed to develop it on the job.
No, not really.
Not really.
I mean, you can try to demonstrate a lot.
What I always tell clients, and this is the art of advocacy, right, is...
But every trope out there in every form of popular media is like the wife rolling her eyes at the husband and the husband being like, oh, this loathsome harpy that castrated me.
I want to use examples of misrepresentations to show that this person's a liar.
Like I'm trying to extrapolate from the small, the large.
Like I'm trying to say, here's three times he lied, therefore he's a liar.
When in fact, we know human beings don't really work that way.
But I've seen people submarine their, just torpedo their entire case because they lied about some dumb shit, some dumb little thing.
And I say to them, why would you lie?
Why did you lie about that?
Like I had a case where a person was accused of child sexual abuse.
And on cross-examination, they were asked, did you have an affair with this babysitter?
And they were like, no, no, no, no, no.
And then it was shown through text messages and things.
They clearly had an affair with the babysitter.
And I said, why did you lie?
And they said, well, I didn't want that to come out.
And I said, right, but now you're a liar.
Like, did you molest your child?
Because if the answer to that is no...
And now you destroyed your credibility because you didn't want to admit that you slept with an adult woman.
By the way, it would have been good for your case.
It would have been good for your case for you to say, yeah, I slept with her because I like sleeping with adult women.
That's how I am.
I don't sleep with children, much less my own, you know?
So why would you lie?
And so that concept is incredibly important.
And judges, theoretically, they have to make very tough calls.
I feel like it's the most impotent place to just sit there and dispassionately sort of listen and rule on objections.
Like I just would be so frustrated because I'd want to get up and, you know, I had to do jury duty once.
As if like people are just passive players in their lives.
And it was, it was like a horrific experience for me because I'm sitting there.
You have no power.
Yeah.
I'm just watching these two.
I'm like, why did you ask that question that way?
I would never have asked it that way.
Why would you object?
Like when you object, you bring more attention to what are you doing?
Like, I'm watching both of them.
It's like watching like a jujitsu.
Probably what it feel like for like John Donahue to watch two white belts spar.
Like, why are you doing?
Wow.
My God, what are you doing?
Why would you grab that?
What are you doing?
What are you thinking?
Like, and,
You know, it's frustrating.
It's frustrating to watch.
And as a judge, it must just be unbelievable.
And I think,
I mean, no one's ever happy to be spending time with a divorce lawyer.
Like if you have a criminal lawyer, they're defending you against the maelstrom of injustice and false allegations.
That is an incredibly toxic message to send to people, that this is how we should be relating to our partner.
They're protecting your freedom.
and maybe you're acquitted and then you're like, oh, that person saved me.
You buy a house, that lawyer helps you get the house, you're happy about that, sign the paperwork, you do a will, you help them make you feel secure.
At best,
I'm a representative of a chapter in someone's life that was very unpleasant.
I have a friend who's a Juilliard-trained classical pianist.
And he was having a humidification system installed in his home because his piano required a certain level of humidity.
And it was very expensive to install this humidification system.
And we went out to dinner and then we came back to his place and he said, man, this is the most depressing $15,000 I've ever spent.
And I said, why?
And he said, because there's nothing different.
Like I spent $15,000 and I feel absolutely nothing different.
My piano does, but I don't.
Like I don't have anything to show for it.
Like you finish getting divorced.
You don't really have anything to show for it.
Like we should not, you don't take the piss out of your partner in front of people.
You know?
It's one of the things I think that's interesting about divorce is in our increasingly performative society, you can't pretend you meant to get divorced.
You can't.
Like everything everybody does.
Like, well, I wrote that album for me.
It didn't matter that it was not going to be popular.
No, you wanted that album to be popular.
Like, you're lying.
And that's fine, but you're lying.
Oh, I think my haircut came out great.
I wanted it to look this fucked up.
No, you didn't.
You didn't.
You're lying.
And that's fine because we live in a society now where everybody's just, oh yes, I meant to do that.
Okay.
Divorce?
Nope.
You got married.
You break up in a relationship, not a marriage.
Okay.
Like the successful relationships I've seen are where people are just cheering for their partner, where they are thick as thieves, where there is just this feeling of like, man, they like each other.
Well, we were only going to be together for a little while.
It was never serious.
We were just like, you know, we were having fun.
That's all it was.
We were never going to be happily ever after.
No, you got married.
You got married, guys.
You got up there and you said forever.
And it didn't go forever.
So you can't bullshit anybody anymore.
No, it didn't go the way you thought it was going to go.
It didn't go the way you signed on for.
So now that that's undeniable, what can we make it?
What can we make it into?
Like, it can be beautiful.
You know, the barn's burned down.
Now I can see the moon.
You know, like, let's make it something.
And so for me, I think people look at a divorce lawyer and they just go, yeah, like, this is this horrible chapter and I associate you with it.
Also, too, listen, some of the things we do, it's difficult to simultaneously prevent and prepare for war.
The things you do to protect your clients sometimes look like acts of aggression.
but really they're just trying to shore up a defense.
And so I get paid to be paranoid and I have to say to clients sometimes like, well, are you sure that they're not doing this?
And then they go, well, I don't know.
And I go, well, let me inquire.
Did she accuse me of that?
No, no, I'm not accusing you.
I'm just trying, like we get a reputation, divorce lawyers, as amping up a conflict because we get paid for the conflict, right?
It's like, if you get paid by the bullet, you're gonna start a lot of gunfights, right?
It doesn't really work that way with most good divorce lawyers.
Like there are plenty of people that are bad lawyers and they stoke up conflict because it jacks up fees.
They usually don't do well.
They don't build a successful career because you live and die by your reputation.
Yes, reputation is everything.
But good lawyers, like good experienced divorce lawyers, we do the whole, you know, hey, listen.
You're going to say this.
I'm going to say this.
You're going to do this.
I'm going to do this.
This is what, let's skip it.
Like they got each other's back like you wouldn't believe.
We're going to end up here.
You know, we got Judge Bluff of law and you know what he's going to do.
He's going to go right here.
So why don't we just agree right now to X, Y, Z. Sounds good.
We're done.
We're good.
It's like the two swordsmen who see each other and they just stand there at the edge and they see the whole fight in their minds and they know who won and who lost and they walk away.
Like, man, you could take sides against anybody.
We do a lot of that.
It's like when you watch high-level chess and someone resigns.
And you go, wait, what happened?
He didn't win.
And you go, no, no, the other guy won.
It's 15 moves from now, but he won.
And the other guy sees it.
So now we're done.
Yeah, Kevin Costner's a great, I mean, I don't know him.
I'm not involved in the case.
Oh, it's so good, right?
But take sides against their partner, you're going down.
But anyway.
He'd be amazing in that.
Your conversation with him was a great one.
The Kevin Costner divorce is interesting because Kevin Costner had one of the most expensive, from a distributive award perspective, like he gave a huge payout to his first wife.
And then this time he had a prenup.
So it's actually, it's a very public showing of the fact that one's bitten twice shy.
Like he had a very public divorce that cost him a lot of assets in terms of the division of assets.
And now it appears by all acknowledged reports that he had a prenuptial agreement that was well-crafted and enforceable.
And when you see a couple that has that, you just, you know, that's so hard to break.
And, you know, he's, the argument now is over
what is child support, what is spousal support, what's covered in the prenup and what isn't.
The prenup worked.
And Kevin Costner's career, which has always been a steady career,
I don't know that in the Hollywood stock market that people would have bet on Yellowstone.
I think you would have said, hey, the best years of that guy's career are behind him.
How do you get better than Dances with Wolves and Robin Hood and all these big, big, the bodyguard, and then Yellowstone?
And it's like, holy cow, did he knock that out of the park?
And he's central to it.
I mean, he knocked the skin off the ball.
I think that's why prenups are important.
You don't know what your career is going to do.
You don't know where it's going to go.
And so he saved himself a lot of money.
He also has a great lawyer.
He has Laura Wasser.
Laura Wasser is LA, just a top professional, brilliant lawyer, even-tempered, but intense in the courtroom, and just a smart, smart human being.
But I think that comes from having like a...
speaking to the press about cases in an extended way.
And that's a smart move.
I don't speak about pending cases I'm involved in publicly, and I discourage my clients from doing so.
I can't always stop them, but I discourage them from doing so.
steadfast, yeah, no, I don't do that.
I don't think there's any good to come of it.
There are lawyers who try things in the court of public opinion.
I think there is a
To take it to the broader principle you just brought up, I think there is a lot of value in talking about your ex in a favorable way.
I have to say, when I first got divorced many years ago, I went on a date with a young woman.
It was one of my first dates as a divorced man.
And she was a divorced woman.
She was a beautiful woman.
And we were having dinner and it was going quite well.
And it was one of those things where I was like, oh, I definitely want to see this girl again.
And I said something about, oh, you know, there's going to be this thing at this museum we should go.
I don't shit talk my partner.
And she's like, oh yeah, that'd be a lot of fun.
And I'm like, yeah, we should definitely, you know, maybe that will be the next thing we do together.
And she was like, yeah, we should go next weekend.
Like the kids are with the asshole so we can go.
And I just, it was like, you could hear that record scratch.
Like, you know, I just went, oh yeah, no, this isn't good.
Like I'm not, you're referring to the father of your kids, is it the asshole?
Like we're already, I'm walking into something here that I don't know that I wanna be involved in.
Matthew McConaughey, before he was married, you know, if you look at his history, he dated some of the most beautiful women in Hollywood in their prime.
And you don't shit talk my partner to me.
And none of them ever talked bad about him in the press.
They all were like, oh, my God, he's such a great guy, such a great guy.
And I always wondered, like, how do you – he got out of all of those relationships without a scratch on him.
And when you'd watch an interview with him.
And that to me is...
They would say like, so you, you know, you dated Penelope Cruz.
And he'd go, Penelope, that's just, that's just a special lady.
That's just a, what a, what a special lady.
She's just a wonderful, what a wonderful woman.
I'm just so blessed to have the time with her.
What a beautiful, wonderful woman.
And I would think to myself, I'm like, you're a genius.
Because I think we're just so criticized by the world.
Like he's a genius.
Because like it, he never came off as petty, spiteful, bitter,
any of that, he just came off as like just dignified, strong, smart, self-assured.
And like it left the viewer with the impression that like when he was looking off in space, he's probably like just thinking about some wonderful time he had with her.
And you think to yourself like, God, that guy, like he just became cooler and cooler.
The world is so full of criticism.
Whereas if he got into like the whole, you know,
Oh, yeah, that was ugly.
And then, you know, this happened.
Like, nobody wants to hear it.
It's awful.
We criticize ourselves so harshly that having a partner who no matter what is like, you've got this, I'm with you.
Just lets it roll off.
But you know, even if it's internally not rolling off, there is value in just rising above it in your discourse.
That's true.
Yes.
You lie to your children.
People say this to me all the time, clients.
They're like, why did you tell your child that dad had an affair?
Well, I'm not going to lie to my kids.
Fuck you.
Yes, you are.
You lie to your kids all the time.
Mommy, are you going to die someday?
Yes, babe.
I'm going to die and daddy's going to die.
And then someday the earth's going to hurl into the sun and we're all going to die.
Sweet dreams.
Like that's not, you lie to your kids all the time.
You know, what's wrong with me?
We don't know what's wrong with you.
We're going to take you to the doctor and hopefully it's nothing serious and you won't die.
Like you lie to your kids all the time.
You tell them that Santa Claus exists when he does, whatever.
So to say, I'm not going to lie to my kids.
You lie to your kids all the time.
You don't like your husband.
That's okay.
You don't like your ex-husband, but it's their father.
So just grin.
Oh, daddy took me to meet his new girlfriend, Kiki.
Like you, okay, yeah, you screwed up.
Oh, that's nice.
Did you guys have a good time?
Yeah, and she helped me do my hair and she did my makeup.
Listen, I'm sure that's burning you inside.
But you go, oh, that's great.
Because why?
You love your kids.
I see it.
Look, I'm not going to lie to you about your blind spots.
But Tom Waits also believes that God's the way on business.
And who are the ones that we left in charge?
You screwed up.
Killers, thieves, and lawyers.
That's a Tom Waits quote.
But you know what?
People screw up sometimes.
I feel like he's the musical equivalent of Cormac McCarthy.
Yeah.
Even if you get the interview, you're not, I don't think, going to get in there.
Got a right to screw up.
A lot of people screw up.
I would put Tom Waits, Cormac McCarthy, Maynard James Keenan.
Come on, get up.
Like these are artists that like, I think they want the art to speak for itself.
They would like to be lessened.
Let's go.
They don't want you to, and I remember early, early days of Tool.
that he could not have been less interested in the spotlight to the point where I think it was almost to the detriment of the band early on.
I know you have it in you.
And there's no surprise that those are three artists that I think are unbelievable and in a category of their own and that you hear their...
If you have that person, like I feel like that's a,
performance.
You can give me a page of a Cormac McCarthy novel, and I'll know it's a Cormac McCarthy novel.
A few notes of Maynard James Keenan or Tom Waits' voice, you know that that's them.
Yeah, that does.
I would like to hear that in
Yeah.
Yeah, just playing in your eyes with Peter Gabriel.
Yeah.
that's a superpower to have that effect on another person.
Maybe you don't need to be honest about it.
So in the law, it is illegal to commit fraud.
Fraud is a material misrepresentation of fact.
But the law specifically says you're permitted to engage in, quote, mere puffery.
Nice.
Puffery.
Puffery.
And that's the term that was used for it.
Puffery.
And puffery is when you are inflating something.
You're being like hyperbolic.
But people wouldn't necessarily think you're telling the truth, you know, like that it's not, you know, like if I say to you, this bottle of water, you know, was held by Elvis and that's why you should pay me $50 for it, that's fraud.
But if I say, this is the water that has been, this water is drank by the finest people, presidents drink this water.
Now this is puffery, you know?
And so advertising, marketing is based on puffery.
It's not fraud.
When it's fraud, it crosses the line.
So I think there's a difference between honesty and candor, right?
So in relationships, being honest is good.
Being totally candid is probably not a great idea.
Like it's indelicate to be totally candid about some things.
a woman you're in a romantic relationship with says to you, do I look good in this dress?
And they don't.
Or do I look fat in this?
That's a better way.
Any heterosexual man who's ever been in a relationship has had that question asked of him.
Do I look fat in this?
Does this make my butt look big?
Or whatever.
Do I look fat in this?
If you go, yes, that's indelicate.
It's honest, but it's indelicate.
And it's almost mean.
Right?
And if you say no, but it's true.
She doesn't look good in that.
Like the concern she sees is a legitimate concern.
Do you lie and go, no, no, you look great.
That's great.
That's not a good thing either.
So what do you say?
You know...
That blue dress you have really compliments your body in a way that one doesn't.
The cut of that dress is such that it doesn't flatter you.
I see what you're saying.
Now it's the dress.
It's not you, babe.
But I'm telling you the truth.
I'm addressing your concern.
This is what...
This is the distinction.
Like, don't material misrepresent the facts.
Like, don't steer people down roads that, you know, you know that that's not how it's going to go, right?
But, you know, so it's like if the woman says, I love you, and you don't love her, don't say, I love you back.
You know, you do the like, oh, you know, I have very strong feelings for you as well.
Or, you know, like there has to be some middle ground.
You don't just pretend you didn't hear them.
Well, it's not a specific enough instruction.
I mean, that's the problem.
When you write a relationship book, which I never intended to do...
People come to you and say, what are the things I should do to help my relationship?
Or what is the cause of divorce?
And you go, well, disconnection.
But like, what do you mean by that?
Or like, how do I improve my relationship?
Pay more attention.
Make small gestures.
Okay, what does that even mean?
Like what do you mean?
Like acts of love.
You should show your partner that you love them more often.
What do you mean?
Like what I say, what I do?
We should have more sex?
Like what are you saying?
Like people want measurable, specific things.
So that's why I tried in my book to be like very specific about like things you can do, things you shouldn't do.
You know, and they're practical suggestions, like leaving a note.
I talk a lot about leaving a note.
Like if you're dating someone or you're living with them or you're in a serious relationship, send a text, leave a note, just little every day, just some little thing that just tells them how much you like them.
Like this is a low cost, high value move, doesn't take much.
And it's a practical thing.
But we speak in these sort of like broader axioms, these broader concepts that people just don't have any idea how to practically apply.
I don't know that Shakespeare would have brought anal up in that context, but I appreciate it.
Yeah, yeah.
My thesis there or my point there was
you know, proceed carefully and have discussion in advance.
And don't just spring it on someone.
And realize that if this goes wrong, it will go catastrophically wrong.
So good communication is important.
And, you know, yeah, I don't think it's something you should just dive into unless you're prepared for that to have potentially a very negative impact.
Because it's about value, I think.
I mean, it's aside from...
Having painful conversations about what you tried to do and were able to do or what your impulse control was in terms of what you spent money on.
There's the conversation and then there's what's underneath the conversation.
There's gender stuff about men feeling the need to be a provider.
There's gender stuff of men or women thinking material goods will fill the void.
and buying things and then creating stress on their partner.
There's the very human desire to make things seem effortless so your spouse doesn't feel any stress when in fact it's causing tremendous financial stress and then when the dam breaks, it breaks hard.
So yeah, there's a lot.
Finance is tricky stuff and you could probably be wonderful, romantic and sexual partners
and have very different styles of how you handle your finances.
And how you handle your finances is informed by not only your individual psychology, but also how you were raised and how your family taught you about finance and how you should conduct your finances.
Isn't that, but there's a scene- And they could be saying the dumbest shit ever.
Tremendously, yeah.
And those are very tricky because...
the standard of living of a couple becomes important in a divorce, but sometimes this toxic standard of living that created toxic levels of stress
is one of the causes of the divorce.
And so they're asking the court to maintain a financial obligation on you that is the reason why the marriage fell apart.
There's a scene in the movie True Romance.
And that feels like a particularly insulting form of indignity.
Yes, I love True Romance.
And I was up at, I get up at four every day.
You woke up before you did.
Well, I woke, it's three o'clock local time.
So I woke up at three local time.
Nice.
Yeah, I wake up at four naturally.
Great movie.
I mean, that Gary Oldman scene is like the greatest scene ever done in film, you know, with Christian Slater and he, but there's a scene in it where she holds up a sign to Christian Slater and it says, you're so cool.
Then my body just wakes up.
And it wakes up full on this speed.
Like my most productive writing and speaking is from 4 a.m.
until noon or 1.
I wake up at 4 a.m.
very naturally.
I wish I didn't, but I do check my phone first thing, because I want to see if any emergencies came in from a client overnight.
Yeah, work-related emergencies.
And as a divorce lawyer,
Our definition of emergency can be very serious.
It's people absconding with a child.
It's a police being involved in a domestic violence.
And so they can be like time sensitive things.
And when someone is hiring a divorce lawyer, I think, you know, they're hiring, they want someone responsive.
My clients have my cell phone number.
And I go to bed early because I get up early.
And so I go to sleep by 8 p.m.
latest.
I don't think I've seen 9 p.m.
even on New Year's Eve.
So I wake up at four, I check my phone, check my email, usually even if there's something that's time sensitive, it's usually not so time sensitive that it needs to be responded to at 4 a.m.
because most other normal people are asleep.
I have espresso, black espresso, which I enjoy very much.
And then I work out.
And that someday is going to be weights.
A lot of days it's just going to be cardio.
I've changed my habits now that I'm in my early 50s.
It used to be much more intensive weight training and deadlifts and stuff like that.
And then I herniated my L5 S1.
So 485 was my max deadlift.
And now I don't hardly do deadlifts.
I do.
I still have some pictures.
You have pictures.
I have videos.
I have videos of me putting 485 for three.
You're so cool, yeah.
And I, like, man, like, that's it.
That's true, but then you can't back it up.
See, I'm very evidence-based.
So if I don't have a photo or video of it, it's just puffing, mere puffery at that point.
But I work out and then I try to work out for like a good hour.
And I do that partly because of stress.
I think when I don't work out, it's difficult.
I had a group of guys that I would do jujitsu with at 5 a.m.
They were mostly law enforcement.
They were cops who would either be starting a shift or coming off of a night shift.
Yeah.
And we would train together, just do like an open mat.
And it was at 5 a.m.
till 6, and that was heaven.
I love training jujitsu first thing in the morning if I can.
And then I always do either a sauna or steam for 20 minutes, half an hour.
That's it.
Like, I've always, I think I say it somewhere in the book that,
And then I do a cold plunge, or if I don't have access to a cold plunge, a cold shower.
And then I have breakfast.
And it's usually a very uncontroversial, simple breakfast.
I like to eat, you know, I eat like slow carb, Tim Ferriss type style.
And then I get right to work.
I try to do my drafting early in the day, prenups, motions, things like that, from, you know, let's say six or seven until...
You know, you go to weddings and like when the bride walks in, you know, everybody's looking at the bride.
9, 9.30, which is when court begins.
Right, writing prenups, writing separation agreements, writing settlement proposals, writing motions for the court, pretrial memos, which is like research that I wanna present to a judge that supports my arguments.
I do drafting.
I review documents that the attorneys who work for me have drafted and refine them.
And then court is usually from nine o'clock until noon.
And if we're on trial, then it's a whole different pace because trials, the lunch break isn't really a lunch break.
You're preparing the afternoon's witnesses and you're trying to do damage control on what happened in the morning.
But if it's just court conferences, like most cases, there's conferences.
Conferences is you go in, you make oral argument, but you don't have witnesses on the stand.
You're not taking testimony.
It's like everybody's just shouting allegations back and forth and making temporary arguments pre-trial.
It's the foreplay of the trial.
It's exhausting when you're done with it.
It's her show.
While you're doing it, it's exhilarating.
I always say that I never sleep as poorly as the night before a trial and I never sleep as well as the night I finished a trial.
You know, everybody turns around.
Because when I am on trial, I am speaking, listening, watching the judge closely to see what they're reacting to and when they're paying attention or not paying attention.
It's the first glimpse everybody gets of the bride.
Watching opposing counsel and the opposing party, like when is the opposing party writing a little note to their lawyer to show it to them?
What is the opposing counsel objecting to?
My client is trying to pass me notes half the time while I'm speaking and making my arguments.
I'm trying to adjust what I'm doing strategically based on the objections that the judge is ruling on.
So I'm so hyper-stimulated on trial that when you finish, you can't even talk.
And I never look at the bride.
You're gone.
Your brain is jello.
Conferences is harder because at least with a trial, there's a singularity of focus.
Like with a trial, it's just one case and they have all my attention.
I always look at the groom looking at the bride.
The problem is then on the lunch break, all the other cases that I've been ignoring for the last several hours while I was on trial, they all have stuff going on.
So it's like, hey, where's that settlement proposal on this?
Hey, she just did this.
We need to file a motion.
So now it's like, okay, I have an hour to eat.
and to answer all of this in some preliminary way to delegate some responsibilities, and then I gotta go back in and put 100% of my focus on this other case again.
So you find yourself in a place, that's why I'm very disciplined, is you find yourself in a place where I live my whole life in six minute increments, tenths of an hour, because we bill in tenths of an hour.
So everything I do, it's like 0.2, 0.4, 0.6, and I'm logging time throughout the day.
And you find yourself at the end of the day
My son is a lawyer, my older son.
Because there's this, like, to me, that's every, like, he has this look like this, because this is the first time he's seeing her in the dress most of the time.
He's a district attorney.
And I'm very proud of him.
He gets to put bad guys in jail.
And he's very smart.
He's doing a great job.
He just, about a year ago.
And when he graduated from law school, we were very close and we were talking and he said, we were just talking about like the career in the law that he was about to embark on.
And I said to him, you know the feeling at the end of the day when like all your homework or all your work is done and you just go, okay, it's all done now and I'm gonna go home.
You'll never have that feeling ever again, ever.
You're just gonna every day go, all right, it's enough, it's enough, I gotta get out of here.
Because you could, with every one of these cases,
You could stay up 24 hours focusing just on it.
So you have to have the discipline to go, yeah, no, that's it.
I'm done for now.
I've done what I could do today.
And now I'm going to sit and read for a half an hour.
I'm going to watch this show for a half an hour.
I'm going to have this meal.
Because it's never done.
So that's challenging.
That's a hard part of this job.
But I think my discipline helps with that.
And also, he's seeing her like, holy shit, she's coming down the aisle, we're getting married, like, but this is it.
And then, like I said, I finish my day around 5.30, 6 o'clock.
And I have something to eat.
And I try to wind down a little.
And I'm usually in bed by 7.30 and asleep by 8.
I love jujitsu.
I trained martial arts from the time I was a little kid.
I think I was seven or eight.
I took up Okinawan goju karate and I did judo.
And it was always part of my life.
And then I got to college and grad school and I didn't have time for it and I didn't do it so much.
And then I got divorced.
I was quite young still when I got divorced and I had two young kids.
And I thought, well, I can like, you know, grow a goatee and buy a convertible and do like the thing you're supposed to do when you're a dude with kids close to middle age.
And everyone's looking at her.
Or I can try to do something more productive.
And so I said, well, maybe I'll go back to martial arts.
So I took up Muay Thai kickboxing
And they had a jiu-jitsu class at the same school after the Muay Thai class.
And I had been around the orbit of jiu-jitsu, having been... My kids took karate and there was jiu-jitsu there.
And I always look at him because I always think to myself, like,
It was at Gracie Academy.
And I stayed for a jiu-jitsu class.
And I had a 120-pound girl...
ragdoll me, like, because I just knew nothing about grappling.
And I remember just going, well, I got to learn what this is.
And that was it.
I just dove into it.
My first professor was Lou Ventolaro in New Jersey.
He's a Hoyla Gracie black belt, great teacher, taught me amazing fundamentals, took me all the way up to purple belt.
And then right after I got my purple belt, I moved to the city.
I moved to Manhattan.
I actually chose my apartment based on its proximity to Marcelo Garcia.
like the look on his face is like, that's like this feeling of like, holy, yeah, wow, okay.
And I moved to West Chelsea because it was a short walk to Marcelo's academy.
My core jiu-jitsu was up to Purple Belt.
It was Lou Ventolaro, and then it's been Marcelo.
And Marcelo, Paul Schreiner, who's really phenomenal at his academy, and all of the people at his academy, I mean, are all phenomenal.
I mean, Bernardo Ferreira was there for a period of time that I was there and before he went to Boston, Marcos.
Tinoco was like his lasso guard stuff.
He was at Marcello's for a long time and what a teacher.
I mean, my lack of skill at jujitsu is not based on a lack of quality instruction.
It's based on an inability to retain the information for very long.
Like that's, everyone's looking at her and she's mine and she's coming up here and we're getting married.
I love jujitsu.
I love the progressive humility that it drives home constantly.
I love the impossibility of perfecting it, although Gordon Ryan's probably come close and Marcelo's probably come close to perfecting it.
It's like the jiu-jitsu mecca, yeah.
I'm actually seeing John Donahue this evening.
And I feel like, yeah, like that kind of adoration
Yeah, I'm actually glad I have that.
It's funny that you bring it up.
We're talking about all these heavy topics, and this is probably the one that I find the most actually emotional.
But
Gordon's, I think, a very young man still.
He's probably in his 20s or early 30s.
And it's hard to imagine that because he's accomplished so much as an athlete and as a business person.
But there was a time not that long ago, I think it was eight or nine years ago, where he was just a young guy on his way up.
He's only, I think, a couple of years older than my oldest son.
And I, through a series of circumstances, jiu-jitsu wasn't, you know, it's really exploded in the last 10 years, but there were not as many people sponsoring quote-unquote super fights.
Like, I think that's the look we're describing is like adoration, like that the words coming out of their mouth that they're like, yeah, that's mine.
There really weren't like jiu-jitsu super fights being sponsored, Jersey and New York in particular.
And I got involved in sponsoring some jiu-jitsu super fights.
And I also got involved in sponsoring some jiu-jitsu athletes.
And Gordon was a young...
part of the Donaher Death Squad.
I was friends with Eddie Cummings.
I'm still friends with Eddie.
I was friends with John.
I'm still friends with John.
But I didn't really know Gordon.
I actually don't know that I've still ever met.
I don't think I've ever met Gordon.
I've been in the same room as him.
But there was a fight that I had sponsored some other fights with this particular promoter.
And they asked me to sponsor one.
And it didn't involve anyone from Marcello's.
But it involved Gordon.
He was one of the people.
And I liked John very much.
And I liked everybody in the Donaher Death Squad.
I like watching them compete.
That one's mine.
And I thought, you know, I think John's just brilliant.
I mean, everyone at Marcellos has such respect for John and for everyone.
And the stuff they were doing, like when they were the early days of that Donaher Death Squad, like the Eddie Cummings, like his leg locks, like it just blew the whole game up.
You know, that's such a great thing.
Like it just was a whole nother thing, you know, it was like insane what they did, such innovation.
And
Gordon, at the time, he was online.
And I'm much older than that.
Like, it's such a great feeling.
I'm in my early 50s.
And that's not, I guess, chronologically that much older.
But generationally, I think it's quite a bit different.
And Gordon was smack talking about a guy who I was sponsor of, who I knew, and who I knew was a very good athlete and had been through difficult things in his life.
And Gordon just said some nasty things about him.
It falls into the category of totally appropriate smack talking looking at it now and looking at what Gordon became, which is he's someone who talks trash.
It's like part of his brand is to talk trash.
And I see now that that's like a Muhammad Ali thing.
At the time, I just didn't see it as what it was.
And although it doesn't excuse it, my mother was dying.
I was not at my best.
I was having a hard time.
And Gordon had spoken ill of this person and I got upset and I reached out to John and to Tom DeBlas and I said to them, hey, like, can you tell this guy to knock it off?
Like, don't talk about this person who I sponsor if I'm sponsoring his fight.
I don't even know this Gordon Ryan kid and I'm sponsoring his fight.
And like, he should say thank you.
Don't talk bad about a person who I financially sponsor.
Like, that's not cool.
And I think on Facebook, he like wrote some comments and then I wrote some comments back and I was incredibly obnoxious.
And very soon after, I felt really gross because I was an adult and I was talking to a young person this way who's on their way up, who's like a little older than one of my kids.
And I just said these obnoxious things to him.
And I felt...
really like, that's gross, you know?
And, but I never really thought much about it again.
You know, I watched his star rise and I was very, I mean, who is not impressed by Gordon Ryan?
Like, and everyone at our academy was always very, you know, like thrilled to see him rise.
And, you know, I've stayed friends with John and every time Gordon would have a big victory, I would always text John and be like, because, you know, Gordon's victories are John's victories too.
You know, they have such a great bond.
All the people in his orbit, like are all people that I respect and like.
And I just would say, hey, listen, congratulations, and please pass on my congratulations to Gordon.
But we don't know each other.
I don't have his number.
I have no way to contact him to apologize to him.
But, you know, if Gordon hears this, I am profoundly sorry.
I don't say that because I'm trying to get in your good graces.
I don't know that we'll ever meet each other.
But that was an unbelievably wrong, stupid thing to say to a young person.
See, you talk to a divorce lawyer and it warms your heart.
Look at that.
I mean, I think it's kind of everything, right?
Romantic love, wars are fought for romantic love.
Empires fall because of romantic love.
It takes down kings.
It
It takes down, we're all just struggling for it.
We're all just chasing it.
We're all chasing the dragon.
It's like the rush we all are.
So it's huge.
It's huge.
I mean, sex and love, which I like to believe are in some way connected, and love and romance, which again, I like to believe are in some way connected.
I think it's huge.
I think it's a, look, I've always thought
Most of what men do, including me, we do to get laid, like on some level.
Like you wanna be successful, why?
So you can have money, why?
So you can have nice things so that you can attract
attractive members of the opposite sex, you know, like a lot of things come down to that.
And even for like men, you know, like red pill, you know, men who are like, yeah, I don't care about women.
Well, you talk about them an awful lot.
Like for someone that's not interested in women, you sure are like in the orbit of women who you're telling how much you don't care about women, which kind of feels like you're doing that to attract a certain kind of woman, which I get, you know, like more power to you.
But like that...
A person who worships an idol and a person who destroys an idol are both idolaters.
Yes.
So if all you're talking about is how you don't need women, you're talking about women an awful lot.
So it's just such a splinter in people's mind, relationships, breakups.
And it's such a great equalizer.
I mean, you're spending some time in the rarefied air now of like big celebrity people.
And I remember when I started out as a lawyer, just doing like the regular, like the cop and the teacher with a 401k and they didn't have any assets.
I remember thinking like, well, someday if I represent celebrities or wealthy CEOs, like it'll be different.
They'll be like smarter.
They'll be like different.
It's just the same weird petty shit, the same infidelity, the same...
It's all the same.
But it is.
And it's all the same insecurity, sadness.
It's the same desire to be validated, like mommy issues, daddy issues, like intimacy issues.
And it's all the same stuff.
And just because you're really good...
at other things, like I've represented professional athletes who are phenomenal, world-class doctors, business people.
And what does that do to him, though?
And they suck at relationships.
No better than, like, anybody else.
Like, there's no, you know, there's no connection between the skills that made you a good entrepreneur and the skills that made you a good, you know, spouse or partner.
I'm sure there's some overlap.
Like, patience is good and thinking strategically is probably good.
Yeah.
But I'm...
I'm just humbled by how we're called to it still.
And even when we lose and even when our greatest pains were caused by our desire to love and be loved in a romantic sense, we just keep putting the money on the table and playing.
See, that's the point.
We won't just quit.
We just keep going.
Like, if there's a point to this, to this whole thing, this whole couple thing, isn't that it?
The whole mess of it is worth it.
I mean, I guess so.
It's calling us.
I don't know if it's worth it or not.
That's a value judgment, right?
But we don't stop.
I don't know a lot of people that they played the hand, they lost, and they went, well, no more of that game for me.
Like, I'm not a good poker player.
I'm not playing poker anymore.
Like, I know people who've done that.
I know people that are like, listen, I don't drink.
Like, you know, I'm allergic.
I break out in handcuffs and hospital bills.
Like, I'm not drinking anymore.
But I don't know people that are like, man, that relationship, I screwed that up or I got screwed on that one.
I'm not doing that anymore.
You can say that.
Everybody says that.
I'm through with love.
You know, I'm done.
They're not.
They keep going.
They'll go up again.
I got job security.
People are not going to stop walking down that aisle.
They are not going to stop having kids with people that they probably should have thought through whether they would have kids with that person or not.
Like, I don't understand this idea of, you know, we had a successful marriage.
Yeah, and what a danger if we didn't, you know?
Like every, you know, you hear about people like Alexander Hamilton or you hear about, you know, people who like, they were born of circumstances that like,
these two people should never have had a kid.
And then they did.
And that kid changes the world, you know, and like moves the dial forward.
What a like, what a great mistake.
Like what a great, you can't ever say it's a mistake.
Like what an amazing thing that happened.
And I think that that's one of the things I like about divorce as a practice and as almost looking at it like a spiritual practice.
I think you just don't know
What is a blessing in the world?
You just don't know.
My father, I've spoken about this before publicly, and he does frequently.
My father's an alcoholic.
My father's been in recovery now for seven years, I think.
Yeah.
We were married for 50-something years.
But he was a bad alcoholic, Vietnam veteran my whole life, and only got sober when I was in my 40s.
And a lot of the personality characteristics I have are consistent with those of adult children of alcoholics.
You know, desire for control and control issues.
You know, a lot of those things.
And I love my life.
Like, I'm having a great time.
If I died tomorrow, man, I did more, learned more, earned more, loved more than I ever dreamed.
We were miserable for 47 of them, but we hung in there.
And so I'm so glad my dad was an alcoholic.
And if you said to me, how do you raise kids?
I wouldn't say, well, you definitely want to be an alcoholic because your kid's going to get a lot of really good discipline lessons from that experience.
Like, this is an endurance event?
No, I wouldn't want that.
But it's born, all these wonderful things were born of this awful situation.
So I think divorce is the same thing.
We make these mistakes, right?
But they're not really...
You know, I often have to say to my clients when they're like, oh, I wish I'd never married this person.
I'm like, you love your kids, right?
Like your kids are half that person.
They would not be the organism they are without that person's DNA.
Yeah.
The primary relationship of your life, you've decided you're going to turn into a 50-mile trail race.
So you can't regret that.
being with that person, if you love your kids.
Like if you love your kids, those kids don't exist without that person.
And I don't know how we refocus on that.
You know, I don't know, maybe we give anyone going through, I've actually had a theory, which I've not said out loud, but I'll say it to you, because it's just us talking.
I think if we could figure out a way to take a divorcing couple
that is interested in potentially mediating and put them in a setting where we could give them both psilocybin, like a good dose, like two and a half, three grams, and have them do individual sessions with, you know, controlled setting with a guide, right?
and have them sort of do that inner work and then have them do some kind of a session together after they've had that experience, that psychedelic experience.
I actually think you could do transformative divorce work because I have found myself and certainly the many people that I've talked to who've had psilocybin experiences in particular, but any psychedelic experience, many of the empathogens, right?
Why?
or even like MDMA, like MDMA, which is an empathogen.
If we brought that space and the divorce and conflict resolution space together,
Why would you do that?
That sort of psychopharmacological intervention on empathy, one's empathy receptors or one's connectivity, I think that could be radically transforming.
Congratulations, you took the concept of monogamy and made it something that two people are absolutely not going to enjoy, but you hung in there.
It would be logistically an absolute nightmare.
It would never get done from a legal standpoint.
But man, I think sometimes that if...
I think the more that you can bring people to the awareness of connection that comes from many people's psychedelic experiences, I think they could then extrapolate that into their understanding of the conflict and disconnect they're having with their partner.
That was what appealed to me about it.
I mean, before I started doing it, it was this idea that this is a opportunity for radical reinvention.
Like it was an opportunity for people to say, okay, now what?
Like I didn't expect that, now what?
And it was to be part of the architecture of that.
I didn't look at it like I'm helping demolish the building.
It was like I'm tearing down the building so we can build the new one, which I hope is filled with joy and abundance and peace and love and real love, real satisfaction.
My ex-wife is married for over a decade now to a phenomenal guy who is perfect for her.
Congratulations.
I understand there's religious perspectives that say, well, it's a sacred covenant, but I have a real chicken or the egg problem with that.
And he's nothing like me, by the way.
Like, like if you met him and you met both of us, you'd go, well, no one could love both of these guys.
Cause like, if you like this flavor, you wouldn't like this flavor.
Like I am impatient, fast talking, like skip to the end.
We got to land this plane.
Come on.
And he's like, he's therapist.
He's chill.
He's like patient and they're perfect together.
And I can say that as someone who loves her and loved her, you know, and knows her or knew her like, and, and I,
I think if we can, you know, if we can radically view honestly, like without jealousy, without, you know, without the sense of like, look at it and just go, yeah, yeah, okay.
Like this is the love this person needed.
Like that doesn't mean my love sucks.
It just means it wasn't the right one for this person, you know?
Like there's someone, there's a lid for every pot, you know?
Like she found her lid.
I want her to find her lid.
That's good, you know?
Yeah, not hit each other over the head with them all day long.
Because I think it was like, well, how do we sell this incredibly stupid concept that isn't working to people?
Oh, it's lovely.
Thank you.
Thanks for having me.
I know we'll tell them God says you have to.
And we'll sign on for that.
I don't buy it.
I don't buy it anymore.
I really... Because when you see...
a successful marriage where you see two, but even without a marriage, you see a pair bond, you see a couple that really love each other and cheer for each other in that way and like hang on each other's words that way and like are just in each other's corner that way, you see the fake shit instantly.
Like you see the difference right away.
It's like if you, you know, the first time I've, this is the first time I've come to Austin.
I thought I'd eaten a lot of barbecue in my life.
I've never had Texas barbecue.
I landed, I went and had barbecue.
I was like, okay, I've never had barbecue before, apparently.
This is a whole different thing.
I think it's the same thing.
I think it's like, once you see real love, like real love, and I mean romantic love, like real love like that, real bond, real, you go, oh yeah, this other thing's not gonna do it.
That is a conscious choice.
I think approaching life that way is a conscious choice.
Approaching any relationship that way is a conscious choice.
I mean, looking at someone who hurts you
or does something hurtful to you and thinking about what's going on in their life that they're doing that or what's happening with them, yeah, that's a very conscious choice.
And I think a better one, a better one than seething in animosity and letting that eat you alive.
But I don't know that it's, I don't think it should be so difficult.
Like with our children, with our pets,
we don't have this problem.
Like you never have someone look at their dog who they've had for eight years and go, I gotta get a new dog.
Like I've had this one for eight years.
Like I gotta get, like puppies are so cute.
What am I doing with this old dog?
Like,
It's the total opposite.
They're like, oh my God, this is like my dog.
This is my dog.
Like the smell of the dog is like, this is my dog's smell.
The bad habits of the dog.
You're like, oh, it's my stupid dog that does stupid things.
And it's not like that has to be a conscious, like they wake up every day and go, I should be grateful for the dog.
Like it's just visceral.
It's in them, you know?
And so, and your children, like people's children, you know, it's why people are like not aware of how annoying their children are.
Because they're not annoying to them.
Like, I get it.
Like, to you, the sound of your kids shrieking is like, oh, my kid's having a good time.
And you don't get that.
And see, when I try to, when I hear that, I try to hear it with those ears.
Like, oh, that, like, I'm a parent.
I get it.
My kids are adults now, but like,
I get it.
So when I hear a kid shrieking, I just am like, ah, to that parent, that's the sound of that kid having a great time and good.
It's so nice that that's in the world.
So for me, it has to be conscious.
For that parent, I don't think it has to be conscious.
So I think it would be great if it didn't have to be a conscious practice.
But I wonder if like anything in meditation or mindfulness...
it's a matter of exercising that way of seeing.
And then once you've come to that, it does itself, right?
Like it really does.
I think it initially has to be a conscious practice.
And by the way,
it's easier to make it a conscious practice before it started to fade, right?
I mean, that's what's so amazing about marriage is there's like almost 8 billion people in the world and you're picking this one.
So when you marry, in theory,
The stock's at its highest, like you're as crazy about each other as you could possibly be.
So that's the time to get into this mindfulness, to get into this practice.
Not once it's like the wheels are starting to come off.
It's much harder.
It's like gaining a bunch of weight and then saying, okay, how am I going to lose the weight now?
There's a line in Drugstore Cowboy, which is a great film, where he says, we played a game you couldn't win to the utmost.
Yeah.
And I think everything, I think life is a game you can't win.
And so you play it to the utmost.
Like to love anything is insane because you are accepting that you're going to lose it.
Like I'm a dog person and you get a dog
And you've just resigned yourself to unbelievable pain because this thing's gonna die in like 10 years, maybe 15 if you're lucky.
And why would you open your heart to that?
Why would you let, because the joy is just so wonderful of it, of the ride up until it.
Same thing with us.
I mean, every marriage, every relationship, every love is gonna end.
It's gonna end in death or divorce.
So why not like just go in?
Go in.
Go in and just get weird.
Don't define it the way that's... Again, we keep going back to true romance, but just get weird.
Yeah, I love this Elvis pretending to be weirdo.
I love this former sex worker who's like, whatever.
Just go in.
Love this person.
Have them love you.
Don't worry about what everybody else is doing in their relationship.
It's not, to me, surprising that
as the performative aspects of life on social media increases, people's satisfaction with their relationships and the divorce rate, you know, is following the same trend.
Because I think everyone's going, well, what's everybody else doing?
You know, well, how much sex is everyone else having?
The only two people that should worry about how much sex you're having are the two people.
If the two people are happy in the relationship, great.
Then what does it matter?
What does it matter what everybody else is doing?
It's us versus the world.
It's us.
It's us.
And that's what I mean when I say that thick as thieves, like when they're like a unit like that, because it's, look, it's just us.
It's just what we want.
It's what we like.
And that's why I said like, you know, even when it comes to sex or things like that, like if you can't be candid with your partner about whatever weird shit you're into or what fantasy you had in any particular...
Well, then who the hell can you be candid with?
I mean, because you're going to either go without or go elsewhere.
And neither of those is a particularly healthy option or helpful option.
It's the start of that decline.
So why?
Why open yourself to that decline, which invariably is just the path to the chair in front of me in my office?
Yeah.
Which is funny because I don't know anything about foot fetishes.
Me neither.
Yeah.
I'm not king shaming anybody, but there's nothing sexual about feet to me at all.
I just don't get it.
But I mean, listen, if people like things, it's good.
But yeah, I have had clients that have
odd fetishes or sexual proclivities or things they want to do.
And they don't share it with their partner at all.
And then they find an outlet for it because they try to go without it and that doesn't work.
So they try to find some other outlet for it.
And then that's interpreted as a betrayal and it creates distance and people split up.
And of course, everybody likes to have like a, you know, a bad guy to blame it on.
So when you say, well, why'd you guys get divorced?
Oh, cause he secretly had a foot fetish and he was on these message boards, like meet people.
But
Well, it gives you an easy answer as to why the two of you split up.
But I don't think most divorces have such simple answers as it was a foot thing.
But I also think too, like, listen, if you've got a partner...
I mean, we all do stuff that we're not super into because we're in a relationship.
And that's what part of it is.
Like, do you really want to go see that chick flick?
Do you really want to eat at this restaurant?
Do you really want to go to her cousin's wedding?
No.
But, you know, part of being in a relationship is, okay, if you're into this, I'm going to pretend this song's a good song, you know, even though it's not my favorite song.
And I think...
I just don't know.
We've turned sex.
I mean, sex has been so politicized in recent years.
Maybe it always was, but I think we've made it into something where we can't just, I don't know.
I'm not in defeat, but if the woman I love was like, you know, I'm really in defeat.
Like I really want to do stuff with your feet.
I'd be like, all right, I can pretend that I'm into that.
Like for, it's not going to kill me.
I'm not going to be able to make it a centerpiece of our coupling, but you know, like, yeah, I can pretend I'm in defeat if you want.
As a divorce lawyer, I get to experience the whole spectrum.
But frame the question the other direction.
If you were into furries, how do you prevent your partner from knowing anything about that?
that feels like a real, you'd have to make a conscious choice to not let your partner know that.
So I don't think either of those is a particularly palatable or easy proposition.
But a lot of people live life hiding some part of themselves.
Yeah, quite unsuccessfully.
The second order effects of that are very rarely positive.
I don't think I've ever met someone who went, yeah, I really hid this huge part of myself for an extended period of time, and that's the best thing that happened.
I'm really glad I stayed in the closet as long as I did.
It really worked out.
It rarely does.
It's a question of how long can you hold it off?
I know gay men who stayed in the closet for 40 years, 50 years of their lives.
And then they had a successful second chapter as a gay man.
I've had clients like that.
Do they regret that they were in the closet?
No, because they were married, they had kids, like they had experiences they're glad they had.
But would their advice to a young person in their 20s and 30s who's gay be stay in the closet because then you can have a wife and some kids and then you can come out when you're 50 or 60 and have a second chapter?
No.
They would say, you know, be who you are.
Don't be afraid, you know.
Well, you don't want to be in, there's a difference between being honest about something and being indelicate about it.
Right.
You know, like I think we all do this with lovers.
Like any of us who've been in more than one relationship,
You would not, you know, at the end of sex be like, that was the third best sex I've ever had.
You know, like you, that's, it's just indelicate.
It's rude, you know?
So I don't think it's a matter of like total candor at all times.
But I think if you were, we're using the furry example.
I'm not picking on furries.
I just think if that is a proclivity that is anything other than a passing thought, like it's something that you just keep coming back to, then you're making a conscious decision to withhold it from your partner.
And what is that out of?
I mean, I would say it's probably out of fear.
I'm not a psychologist, but probably out of fear.
Fear that they would reject you.
Okay, well now, see, I genuinely believe that...
I'm very conflicted in my religious faith, but I don't know that I believe in the devil.
But if there was a devil, I think his principal function would be to convince us that we are so bestial that God couldn't love us.
It would be to convince us that we're awful and that we should just lean into the awfulness.
And I know the greatest...
low points of my life came whenever I just went, you know what, I'm just awful.
I might as well just behave awfully.
And I really believe that when you don't, when you push down parts of yourself, like your sexuality,
like your insecurities, your true feelings from your romantic partner, the person who's supposed to be your number one, you are making sure you will never feel their love because they don't love you.
They love the you you've presented to them, which you know in your heart is not the authentic, honest, real you.
And so if you know you're super into furries,
And you don't tell your partner about that.
And your partner says, I love you so much.
And you know what I love?
One of the things I love about us is we have such great sexual chemistry.
You'll never feel that love because you know, yeah, that's not true though.
She doesn't know.
She doesn't know that actually I'm not really satisfied.
And there is this thing that I want that I know I can't even tell her because I'm so ashamed of it.
Like that doesn't feel like a good option to me.
You know, I'm prone to jujitsu metaphors and this is one of the first conversations where I can actually use them because the person I'm talking to is a jujitsu person.
I am a brown belt under Marcelo Garcia and I am like a seven year brown belt now.
Well, and also I am, you know, late middle-aged, middleweight and moderately talented.
And training at that academy with so many incredibly talented people and training in New York City where there's so many unbelievably talented people, you're constantly humble and feeling like you should just be wearing a blue belt all the time.
But a lot of, I think, as you know, and as most people who practice jujitsu know, you start to sort of see jujitsu in everything.
I genuinely believe that in love, you have to give something to get something.
Everything you do creates a vulnerability.
Every move you make in jujitsu,
creates opportunity and creates vulnerability.
And so you have to be willing to create vulnerabilities in order to get any leverage, in order to get any progress, in any way to move the position.
You know, you don't want a marriage that's just two people both in 50-50.
You know, like you're just sitting in that guard doing nothing.
You know, you want it to actually move along.
Well, you have to expose.
And that's the part that I think is hard for everyone, is to expose yourself in that way.
But that's what I mean even when I said about getting a dog or having a child.
Loving anything is tremendously courageous because it's terrifying.
And it's only brave if you're scared.
If you're not scared...
you know, it's not brave.
It's just stupidity.
It's just, you know, it's bravery when you're afraid and you do the thing anyway.
And so love is like, yeah, it's scary.
Like, I don't care who you are.
Like, you know, being, you know, in the jujitsu community, like I'm around, you know, as you are, like incredibly tough people, like physically tough people, mentally tough people.
But, you know, I've seen some of those people taken down, right?
by 120 pound woman.
Not from a grappling perspective, but they are taken apart by a woman in their life and vice versa.
I've seen men who like, it really is shocking how much leverage we give to our romantic partners and how little discussion we really, genuine discussion we really have about it.
how much we really are ever trained to think about it.
You know, there's nothing in school that teaches us about it.
So much of literature and art is an idealized version of it.
So little of it is real.
Yeah, yeah.
It's interesting that you came to that not being a divorce lawyer, because I felt that way for a long time.
And I really try to say to my clients,
Like in the courtroom at the negotiating table, I have a role to play where I have to be sort of like a pit bull or some kind of like a courtroom sociopath.
But behind closed doors, like I'm very candid with people and try to be much more emotionally attuned with them.
Exactly correct.
That's well said.
I get a new tattoo idea.
That's good.
I like that.
But I do believe when I'm behind closed doors with people, I say to them, how you end things is going to be how you're going to remember the whole thing.
And that's unfortunate.
Because, you know, you watch like a two-hour movie, and if the last 15 minutes of it sucked, you go, well, that movie sucked.
Like, well, the first hour in 45 was great, you know?
But you walk out with this bad taste in your mouth.
I'm genuinely...
in awe of how easily people forget that they loved each other.
And I'm amazed because by the time I meet them and by the time they hire me to be a weapon against the person they were in love with, there's nothing but animosity there.
And so I have to try to imagine what these two people looked like when they were in love with each other and how that even existed.
I have to tell you, I don't function that way.
Every woman I ever had a relationship with, when I think of them, I don't think of the ending necessarily.
I try to think about the greatest hits.
I try to think about the moments that were wonderful, where I loved them and they loved me, and there was joy and there was connection.
And I don't know why you'd choose not to.
There's that old axiom, I don't know who said it,
If you don't learn to find joy in the snow, you'll have less joy in your life and precisely the same amount of snow.
And I genuinely believe like, okay, the relationship ends.
This is where it ends.
We're done now.
I am making a choice as to how I will remember you.
And we do it in relationships.
Like I always tell people, you know, if you ever wanna see a couple light up, if they're ever like the couple at the table that's, you know, it seems like they got in a fight or something, ask them how they met.
And most people, when they talk about how they met, like their face softens, they both, and the other person looking at them telling the story gets that look you were talking about before.
And cause they remember that thing and how they felt at that moment.
And when this person was a choice,
Not a default, not their automatic plus one, but the person they asked to the wedding.
Not the, of course you're bringing her, it's your wife.
You bring your fucking wife places.
Like it was still, hey, there's like, you know, three and a half billion women and I'm picking you, you know?
Like that feeling.
And I don't know why when a relationship ends,
You can't do that.
A lesson I learned when my mother passed away of a very, she had a two year terrible battle with cancer and was on hospice and was very, very sick.
And it was a very slow and awful end.
And I remember one of my worst fears was that this is how I would remember my mother for the rest of my life, that I would never be able to think of her, that I didn't think of what she had become in the last months where she was withered away to nothing in this bed, you know?
And I learned over time that memory is very kind, that like that faded somehow.
And that now, like when I remember her, I remember her healthy and vibrant.
I remember her laughter.
I remember her
positive things.
Some of that is I like to look at photos of that, but some of it is just how I think memory works.
And I don't know why we don't apply that to relationships.
And I think part of it is because we have this binary view of relationships, that it's either success, which means you live happily ever after for the rest of your lives and die together, or like in short succession,
or it was wrong, it was awful.
And I don't understand why that would have to be how we do it.
I think we could look at relationships like what they are, which is chapters in a book.
And that book is our life.
And those chapters all have significance.
And none of them would, the later chapters, none of them would happen without the prior ones.
So there's this beauty to me of that.
And it's, I don't know if it's a choice,
Or if that is how it is and the rest is just narrative that we've put on top of it culturally for some reason.
I'm continually astounded by how long the hurt and anger of betrayal can reverberate.
I have clients who were four years, five years past when the divorce ended, the cheating was discovered, and they're as angry as they were the day they found out.
And I don't know what that's about.
Because I also have clients that...
they like look back on it and they go, you know, we screwed up.
Like we were, you know, we didn't do the best, but we did the best we could do at the time.
And, you know, we like, there should be stars for wars like ours, you know, there should be champagne for the survivors.
Yeah, that's beautiful.
Like we made it through, you know, like we survived it and we were fools and we were fools for love.
And there are worse things in the world to be fools for.
But I also do think that most relationships where there was infidelity,
And it's not a popular thing to say, and I'll get pilloried for it, but- Great.
I just don't know, and I don't want to blame the victim of infidelity,
But was the relationship really where it needed to be?
Like, were you truly the most just dutiful spouse who was seeing this person's needs be met?
Again, we've established in the granola story that people can sometimes with good intentions not be meeting their partner's needs or perceiving their partner's needs or their partner isn't communicating them the right way or all of the above.
But...
I've rarely seen very happy, content couples that cheat on each other.
And so I understand there's a shame in saying this person cheated on me or I cheated on this person.
Because I represent the cheater and I represent the cheated.
I represent the victim of domestic violence and I represent the perpetrator of domestic violence.
I represent the person with the substance use disorder, the person married to the person.
So I don't get to choose the white or the black hat.
Like I have my client and that's my client.
And it forces me to put myself into their story from their point of view.
And I think that kind of radical empathy that you need to engage in on a daily basis to represent people in those kinds of proceedings, it just, I don't know, it just doesn't seem like there's good guys and bad guys, you know?
It just seems like it's complicated and people's intentions and where they actually end up are different.
Especially with love.
Like, love's just so absurd.
Like, it's so... It's just crazy.
It's so crazy.
I mean, like, I don't... You know, I think it's funny.
I think... I mean, this is real candor, but, you know, as a man, like, there's nothing funnier than when you finish masturbating.
You know?
There's no more humbling moment.
And I like to think about the fact that, like, the richest, famous, most powerful person in the world, they jerk off.
You know, the most powerful man in the world jerks off, I'm sure.
You know, all of them do.
I mean, you probably know them, so you could ask.
And that moment where you just, you come and you go, what am I doing?
Like, what the, now I got to wipe that, like, oh, good Lord.
And there's this feeling of, but a second ago, this seemed like a great idea.
And it was, by the way, it was a great idea.
But there's this moment, this satori, you know, where you just go...
Oh, like, this is so silly.
Well, like, that's love.
That's sex.
Like, it's crazy.
Like, when you read
Other people's infidelity, the text messages, the emails, because I have to do that all the time.
And I'll tell you how we make the sausage.
In a divorce lawyer's office, some of the most entertaining moments is dramatic readings aloud of people's infidelity exchanges with their lovers.
The sexts.
Yeah, the sexts and the like, you know, like it's just so ridiculous because people have to go through like all kinds of gymnastics to be able to meet and have sex in weird places.
And, you know,
And you're reading this and you're reading these texts and you kind of go like, oh, my God.
And by the way, like I've represented some very powerful people.
And you read their texts with their lover or even their spouse, like even their spouse, you know.
And they're just pathetic.
I mean, they're just like so not powerful.
They're so like, hey, babe.
You know, I have a, I have a, will remain totally nameless.
I have a very powerful, wealthy, famous former client where there's a whole series of texts about, is my dick weird?
Which by the way, I think the answer is, is if you have to ask if you have a weird dick, the answer is probably yes.
Because I own one and I've never thought, is this weird?
But the fact that you're having this discussion, like it's absurd.
It's hilarious.
Like love is hilarious.
It's bizarre.
It's such a weird vulnerability.
It's such a basic visceral human need.
You know, it really is something that we just, you know, it's mysterious.
But it doesn't have to be that complicated.
I don't think that even betrayal, like I said, it doesn't have to be that complicated.
I think we can frame it differently.
Why did the Karate Kid 3 pop into my head?
Where's Ralph Macchio now?
Who is he dating?
And then mother.
And then a restaurant nearby.
How did I go from this to that?
But it made sense at the time.
So when you ask someone, how did our relationship fall apart?
It's like looking at the Google search history of yourself from tenure.
You don't even know why you were thinking about those things.
And now you want to understand why you did what you did, felt what you felt, she felt what she felt, she did what she did, and why the two of you, how you impacted each other and interacted with each other.
Really?
You think that's doable?
Yeah, I mean, you know, cheating doesn't come up as much because most states are no-fault states now.
So why someone's getting divorced, whether it's infidelity or, you know, it doesn't matter.
There's no good spouse bonus or bad spouse penalty.
Oh, there isn't.
I mean, can you elaborate on that?
Like, that's...
Well, you can have we've had times where we have to prove infidelity because we want to prove what's called wasteful dissipation of marital assets, which means that you were spending money that was marital money.
on a paramour, that's what the legal name for a ex, you know, for a boyfriend or girlfriend in the marriage.
And usually the person calls it, you know, that whore or that piece of shit, but we call them paramour.
Yeah, the paramour.
And the, you know, sometimes we have to prove inclination and opportunity.
We have to prove that this person had the inclination to cheat and that they had the opportunity to cheat
And then we want to show that, okay, so when they went away, that should be considered dissipation of marital assets.
So if you go out to dinner with your brother, you didn't dissipate the marital estate.
But if you bought your paramour a Tiffany bracelet, that would be a dissipation of marital assets and the person's entitled to a credit back for that from what was taken out of the marital estate.
So we do sometimes have to authenticate text messages on the witness stand or in depositions, you know.
And what's interesting about that is the way people approach it.
Like people sometimes try to
pretend oh no this is just my good friend you know and which is just like you kill your credibility you know if you oh no she's just my very good friend she's not she's not that makes no sense whatsoever or no we were just friends at that point and then several months later is when we once this marriage was over that's when we got together as partner right that's ridiculous but sometimes people just own it just own it like i did a deposition of an executive once and
And opposing counsel thought they were going to really hit him.
They were like, looking at this credit card receipt, what was this charge for, for this hotel?
He's like, oh, that was for a hotel room that I got with my girlfriend.
And you were married?
Yes, yes.
Where did you stay at the hotel?
We didn't even stay.
We actually just did like an afternoon delight, rolled around in bed for the day.
And it was like, well, now, you know, took all the thunder out of that.
There wasn't.
It actually, I think, helped his credibility.
It was my client, so I thought it was the right move.
We hadn't really discussed it in advance, but he was naturally intelligent enough to go, yeah, my credibility, like, I'm not going to lie under oath.
I'll admit what it was, but I'll do it in such an... You know, we did it like at the end, like Eminem at the end of 8 Mile.
Like it was very like, yeah, I cheated on her with this person.
Now tell these people something they don't know about me, you know?
And that's kind of how I try to... As a trial lawyer, we actually, in my firm, refer to it as the 8 Mile strategy, which is like, we will, if I know...
There was a text message sent, you piece of shit, I hope you die.
My client sent that text message to his co-parent.
On my examination of my client, I will say, I'd like to have this marked for identification, shown to the witness.
What is that?
It's a text message.
Who's it to?
Plaintiff.
You sent it?
Yeah.
Read it out loud for the court.
Do I have to?
I think you should.
You're a piece of S. Does it say S?
No.
What does it say?
Well, it's a profanity.
Say it.
You piece of shit, I hope that you die.
You sent that to her?
Yes.
Why?
I was really mad.
Do you think that was good?
No.
Do you think it was helpful for your co-parenting relationship with her?
No.
Why did you send it then?
You know, she sent me like 50 texts exactly like that.
And I never responded and I pushed it down every time.
And then finally I just blew up at her.
If you had it to do over again, would you do it differently?
You know, I wish I could say I would, but the truth is I'm human and I was at my limits and I'm watching opposing counsel
cross out entire sheets of their cross-examination because it's gone now.
They thought that they had their like Perry Mason moment.
They had their like, did you order the code red moment?
And it's gone now.
Because if you just own and accept your fault or your issues in the relationship, you can take a lot of the power out of that.
I don't think we should have substantive discussions via text.
I think text was designed for, are you here?
Yes.
15 minutes away.
Or I got here safely.
Love you.
Like that substantive discussions.
People love having arguments via text.
And I have to say, when you read other people's text messages, as I am often forced to do, it is amazing because just like that Google history you were talking about,
I don't know how the hell you got from one thing to another.
Like I was just reading on actually on, on the way here in the car, I was reading through a text exchange between two co-parents in the middle of a custody thing that I'm, I'm involved in.
And it's like, you piece of shit.
You never cared about anything.
And I'm going to take, you have no right to take the kids from me.
And then the next day, nothing in between the next day,
Maddie got a good grade on her science thing.
Oh, that's great.
She's doing so well.
It makes me so happy.
Yeah, her teacher said she's doing really well.
Yeah, that's really great to see.
I'll be there about 15 minutes late.
No problem.
See you then.
Wait, like it was a day ago.
Was there some, I want to know, was there a phone conversation in between where one of you went, hey man, listen, I'm really sorry about that.
Oh no, look, we were both pissed, whatever.
Or is it just like you did that and then we're supposed to pretend that didn't happen and now we're just going to talk about what Maddie got on her test?
I totally get it.
But is there some, if you're looking just at the texts, like it begs the question,
Wouldn't you take the nap and then go, hey, listen, I just woke up from the nap.
It turns out I was really tired.
Like, does that not happen by text?
Text has a permanence, though.
It's writing.
You think like a lawyer.
But lawyers think like detail, you know?
And why would you write that down?
Like, you know, writing it down, like, would you write it down and would you put it on a billboard in Times Square?
Because like that's everything you say on Facebook or Instagram can and will be used against you in a court of law.
Like every photo you post.
I mean, that's going on with what's his name?
Jake Paul or whatever.
Paul and Dylan Dannis right now.
That guy's girlfriend.
Every picture has ever been put on the Internet of her by her is being weaponized right now.
But is the reward of doing it via text worthwhile?
Listen, the reward of love, I think, is worth the risks of love.
But the benefit of communicating by text, does it merit?
that risk of that being in writing that the person can reflect on and review and scroll back and get heated up again about?
There may be something about text that for whatever reasons inspires a kind of candor because I think it is a new way to communicate, right?
Yeah.
in the scheme of things.
And so sometimes, you know, we don't know the thing until it's really come into existence.
So I don't know.
I think it started as something that we just communicated in a very extemporaneous, unplanned way.
Like texts were meant to be, I'm here, I'm outside, whatever it might be.
And so what happens when you start to talk about more emotional, deeper, bigger things or visceral things or more emphatic, passionate things using a technology that was originally just being used for that purpose?
I don't know the answer to that.
What I do know is, yeah, as a lawyer, A, from an evidentiary perspective, and B,
I just know what it looks like on the outside.
I know when I read it what it looks like, and that's not always accurate.
It's like when you watch a video of someone at just their worst moment, and the person tries to say, but wait, that's not me.
That was just me in that moment.
That was me at this incredible low point.
I think as a lawyer, my job is to weaponize that and to try to say, okay, this low point is indicative of who they actually are.
Yeah.
And when I'm defending someone, I'm supposed to say, you know, well, this is their low point and we've all been to a low point and this is just a moment in this person.
And to judge them by that moment, would you want to be judged by your worst moment?
So I have to be able to look at that both directions.
I mean, there's so much of our communication that is missing.
You know, your expression, like my sense of humor does not do well via text.
Like I, because I have like sometimes a sarcastic sense of humor or I have a dry sense of humor.
And it does not always translate well to text.
The nuance of things is lost sometimes, you know.
statement right that's a joke and then the pause and then there's no response for a couple hours i mean that's beautiful you know that's a that's like a it's this you know it's it's the gap between the two trapezes you know like once you've hit send and you're like well let's see where this goes like this is coming back now you know and you're waiting and waiting it's like that moment of just hang is yeah that's a rush i mean that's a rush that's a beautiful thing
Well, but that was one of, you know, the Johnny Depp, Amber Heard thing was a great example of...
In a gunfight between those two, everyone was cheering for the bullets.
I mean, no one was, I don't think anybody looked like a hero.
They both looked like what they are, which is humans, really flawed humans who had, you know, it really is like that People magazine thing, stars, they're just like us, you know, like we watched that and went like, oh yeah, they're just like us.
Like they cannot keep it together.
They cannot have, like, they just have these ridiculous toxic moments where both of them looked awful in that trial.
Yeah.
My feeling about that trial is there is no amount of money that would be worth laying that kind of stuff bare publicly.
For you, if you were Johnny Depp.
For me, yeah.
There's no amount of money.
Because they both look awful.
They both look awful.
And I don't think I'm qualified to say if one or both of them are awful, but they both had moments in that courtroom where their behavior and words looked awful.
And I just don't know that exposing that to the world, I just don't know.
I mean, I understand the point of view that by bringing that suit, Johnny Depp was saying, look, yeah, I have to show these awful things to the world about myself, but it's not as bad as what she's claimed I've done.
So I get it.
I'm not saying that's incorrect.
And for Amber Heard, I think her response is, well, for him to say I'm lying, I have to prove my...
But my God, like what an awful thing to watch.
All it really is is just another couple.
You know how banal that is?
This kind of stuff happens a lot.
A lot?
Yeah.
It's the norm.
It's not the exception.
They just happen to have like a grand scale because they have lots of people around them and lots of money.
But yeah, it's all this, that kind of dysfunction, that kind of chaos, that kind of he said, she said, two people with completely differing histories of what happened in the marriage, false allegations of domestic violence or true allegations of domestic violence that are completely denied by the person.
And you have witnesses that'll say, oh my God, they never engaged in any kind of, because again,
No one engages in domestic violence with company over.
You know, you don't like invite friends.
Like people always say like, oh no, I saw them.
They seem so happy.
Like people always do this to me as a divorce lawyer.
They come in and they go, well, here's photos of the kids, you know, smiling with me.
So that's proof that like, I'm a good dad.
And I'm like, there's photos of Jeffrey Dahmer smiling with people he ate later.
And you think these photos prove something?
Like I don't, the lack of, I'm in the middle of a very complex domestic violence trial and the entire defense on the other side is, well, we have photos of them on vacation where they look very happy and she never called the cops.
That's no defense at all.
Like most victims of intimate partner abuse don't call the cops.
They don't identify, self-identify as victims of domestic violence.
Of course.
And by the way, perpetrators of domestic violence are charismatic people.
How else would they get victims?
You know, it's not like if they were ogre-ish, no one would sign on for that relationship.
It's that when they're good, they're so good that when they're bad, you go, but wait, no, that's not him.
The really good person is him or her.
You know, we saw that in the public testimony of that, you know, Deb Hurd thing is there were moments where you look at her and go, oh, my God, like I want one just like that.
And there are moments where you listen to the testimony and go, oh my God, she's awful.
Like what?
That's just evil.
And the same for him.
So I really, this should teach us something about how not only are there two sides to every story, like that there's just so much complexity and nuance to these stories.
But I think everyone was asking the question, whether you were team Depp, team Heard, or team I could care less about either of these people.
Everybody's looking at it going, why?
Like eight billion people in the world.
Why did you stay together?
Just break up.
You're miserable.
It's obvious.
It's obvious you're not.
This can't be worth it.
Great lawyer.
I think that's a function of our professions.
Even after 20 plus years of doing this, like the night before a trial, I can hardly sleep.
Excitement, fear?
Yes, yes.
Okay.
All of that, all of that.
And I even have moments as I...
I pull up to the courthouse and I listen, I wear certain cuff links that are like my lucky cuff links or something.
And I pull up to the courthouse, I walk into the courtroom and I have this feeling in the pit of my stomach and then it starts.
And the moment it starts, something in me goes, oh yeah, I know how to do this.
And it's instantly like, I just, I own it, I love it.
And it's, yeah, it's the people that love this job,
You know, being a trial lawyer, being particularly a divorce trial lawyer, family law trial lawyer, I love it.
I love it more than I loved it when I started doing it.
I still, you know, I can't imagine spending five days a week looking forward to two.
You know, I love what I do.
I don't know that I'll ever love anyone or anything more than I love the work.
Everything boils down to Godfather references.
It really does.
And true romance.
Yeah, you don't take sides against the family.
You don't show that weakness to the world.
I mean, again, I don't know that...
I don't know that Steve in candor would say you shouldn't discuss it with your own therapist.
But I think what he's saying is don't project it out to the world.
Don't share that because I think it can change the way people view your relationship, which then will change the way you view your relationship.
And so I think don't run reckless when it comes to that primary relationship.
Don't run your mouth recklessly.
I'm sure.
Like, that's...
That's probably because he has a great wife and he has a great wife in part because of that.
I think it's clear that he's in her corner and cheering for her.
It's clear she's cheering for him.
It's not like Joe Rogan's not a man who has opportunity.
I mean, he's surrounded by UFC ring girls, for God's sakes.
This is a guy who has all the opportunity in the world and he seems to be quite a fan of his wife.
And that's a superpower.
That's a real thing.
Now, the question is...
you know, he doesn't seem to talk about it.
Like, oh, I gotta really work at that.
You know, and that's not a man who's afraid to talk about what he works at.
You know, he's pretty honest about, man, yeah, I gotta work really hard to stay in show.
I gotta work really hard to be able to do this.
Like, yeah, I'm not good at memorizing that.
It takes time.
But I've never heard him say like, oh, marriage is a lot of work.
Like, and I think that's to his credit because it seems like they're enjoying that.
And it's also not incredibly public.
Like it's not something, most people couldn't pick her out of a lineup.
Especially that.
I think there is something about
the womb-like, cocoon-like joy, you know, of like love, you know, when you're just tucked in, snuggled in, like just pressed against each other with that.
Like that's such a, you know, like a, it's just the two of you.
And that's lovely, you know, and that's such a good thing.
And I, like we were just dying for connection, you know, and that connection is so,
It's so everything.
One of my earliest psychedelic experiences, probably when I was a teenager, but a theme that's been persistent in every psychedelic experience I've ever had is this idea of everything is connection.
Everything is...
being pressed to someone and with them, like the warmth of human connection.
One of the reasons I enjoy listening to your work and your perspective has always been that I think at the core, you see connection and love.
And I think for me, from my earliest experiences with psychedelics at 16, 17,
I was very attuned to that.
I was very much, that was put on my radar by psychedelics and just stayed part of my consciousness forever.
And I think I had a 30 something year break from psychedelics, but it was like, when I came back to it, I went, oh yeah, it's still there.
That's still the core of everything is connection.
No, I think it's actually why I'm well-suited for what I do.
I think what I do is I have to,
learn the story of my client and know it and feel it very deeply.
And I have to feel it in a very human way that's very compassionate to this person.
And then I have to feel it and understand it in a way that's incredibly antagonistic to it so I can shore up defenses.
So I have to feel this person's story and feelings
from every possible angle because every one of them is a vulnerability and every one of them is a potential strength and a potential defense.
And so I actually think it's my number one, other than extemporaneous speaking ability, it is my number one job tool is the ability to radically empathize and to put myself in the emotional state of someone in its best possible light and its worst possible light.
So that I can see, again, the defense and I can see the vulnerability.
That part is hard, but I was a hospice volunteer for many, many years when I first got out of college.
And it really showed me a lot about...
you know, what is sadness?
What is tragic?
And what is just inevitable decay?
What is pain and decay?
Like we all die.
Like we play a game you can't win to the utmost.
And so if we know the answer to all of this is you're going to die,
then what do we do with the rest of that time?
If all your stuff is just stuff, it's just gonna go to the, you know, the money's gonna go, like everything's, your looks is gonna go, everything's gonna go, love's gonna end one way or the other, then what are we doing, you know?
And again, I think it's love and connection, but what I'm doing for a living is helping, and I don't look at it as what I'm doing is helping people beat the crap out of each other.
I look at it as I'm trying to help a client
build their post-divorce life, to sort of rise from the ashes of that which has fallen apart and move on to the next chapter and refocus and have the things they need financially, emotionally, whatever it might be, interpersonally in terms of with their kids.
And so for me, it's actually a job that is very consistent with my desire to build connection and to be empathetic.
No, because again...
56% of marriages end in divorce, but 84% are remarried within five years.
We keep doing it over and over again.
I think it is a good thing.
Well, it's just the return is so great on the investment.
Listen, man, I've had more than one dog.
When my dog died...
The first dog I had died, I remember when I'm never going to love again.
I'm done.
I'm done with this.
I will never expose myself to this kind of pain again.
I'll never have to take the dog bed and put it in the closet and like, ugh.
And then...
Some friend called me and said, we have an adoption event.
Can you just watch this dog for 24 hours and then we'll take him?
You know, we just need to, you know, and I went, yeah, all right.
I'll watch a dog for the night, you know, and this dog come and they say, oh, he has mange.
He's not gonna, fuck, I got another dog.
He walked in, my heart went, yeah, I got a dog.
And now that dog is 13 years old and his eyes are cloudy and he doesn't go up the stairs real well.
And he's gonna break my heart.
And I wouldn't change that for the world.
Yeah.
And you'll never lose that pain.
But...
I promise you, your heart has an infinite capacity for the kind of love you felt with that dog.
And you'll never feel a love that replaces the whole.
Like there will never be another buster for me.
But there was Kaba.
And like, you know what?
And when he's gone, there will never be another one of him.
But you know what?
Like when that stupid puppy that was five months old stumbled in, I went...
I guess I'm going to do this again.
And you know what?
I'm so glad.
I'm so glad.
And I know, by the way, I know now, because, and that's where I've said, like, you know, it's that Joseph Brodsky poem, you know, a song, like, I wish I knew no astronomy when stars appear.
Like, I wish I didn't know the pain, but you know what?
Like, I don't care.
I don't care.
And I believe we don't care.
And I think there's something to that.
If something hurts so badly,
And you go, I'm going to do it again.
I'm going to do it again.
But it must be of value.
It must be of real value.
Well, the opposite of love isn't hate.
The opposite of love is indifference.
There's no question about that.
I mean, it...
Hate is a passionate emotion.
Love is a passionate emotion.
And there is a school of thought that says that only unfulfilled love can be truly romantic.
But I believe that it's what I think I learned from hospice is that I think for me, knowing the impermanence
is the thing, you know, it's the key.
Dogs are, for me, a great example.
And again, I don't know what it all means, right, existentially.
But I just feel like that kind of love has to be here to teach us something.
And I feel like the fact that they're so amazing and just so loving and so wonderful and the bond we feel is so amazing and deep and doesn't require a lot of maintenance.
And yet it's so finite, like it's just this short little lifespan.
And I feel like there's just such a lesson there.
There's so much there to unpack about the nature of connection and loss
And that your heart has this infinite capacity.
I'm telling you when my dog died, when Buster died, I remember thinking with certainty, I will never do this again because I'll never love that way again.
I'll never love a dog the way I love this dog.
And it's just not true.
That's just not true.
Like you have this infinite capacity and that makes it scary actually because like right now there's so many people you could love.
There's so many dogs you could love.
Like there's so much out there and it requires a certain bravery and tremendous amount of risk to do it, you know?
Yeah.
Which is hard because we don't even, I don't know that we even feel comfortable diving into the full range of ourselves.
There's pieces of ourselves we try to push away or not think about.
Craziest would be different than most complicated.
Yeah, so craziest...
Gosh, that's a great question.
So from a chaos standpoint, I mean, I see so many bizarre fact patterns and so many variations of people cheating with people, people sleeping with the nanny, people sleeping with someone, a relative of their spouse, people having same-sex or polyamorous relationships and the other person doesn't even know they're not monogamous.
So much craziness that you could fill 15 books with.
In terms of complexity, I mean, emotionally complex as any custody case is emotionally complex because you're dealing with parenting issues.
And what makes a good parent, I think, is a very tricky question because I'm trying to convince a judge who's a better parent.
And that is so loaded with subjective value judgments
Well, there was.
I mean, it was real.
It was the law.
There was something in the law called the maternal presumption.
It was also known as the tender years doctrine, which meant that a child under the age of seven was presumed to be in the custody of the mother unless you could show she was an unfit mother.
So that's where the idea of someone has to be proven an unfit mother came from.
Now, in the 80s,
1980s, that was changed.
But under my skin is under my sovereignty.
I mean, you can't suggest that there isn't in the world
a suggestion that a mother who births a child and feeds a child with her body doesn't have a particular bond with a child that's different than a father's bond with a child.
So where do we put that?
How much importance do we put on it?
Now that there's better and more research in the mental health field about attachment theory and infants,
There's also a lot of research on how is attachment formed?
How should parenting schedules be put together based on attachment theory?
But there's conflicting perspectives on that.
Yeah, there is because there's lots of kinds of judges.
Like there's judges that are thoughtful, enlightened, interested in mental health research.
And there's judges that just want, were unsuccessful lawyers that were good politically and got elected.
And they just want to, you know, they just want a job where like they show up at nine o'clock, they have a lunch break from 12 until two o'clock and that they leave at 4.30 and they get a certain number of weeks vacation and a pension after 20 years.
Well, the overwhelming majority of custody cases don't end up in my office.
They are a negotiation between two people that love their children more than they dislike their soon-to-be exes.
So the overwhelming majority of cases are just two people going, okay, how are we going to make decisions together?
Because there are decisions that have to be made about kids.
Will they go to public or private school?
Can they go on medication if they need it or not?
Should we change pediatricians?
You know, all those kinds of things.
How do we make decisions?
And when will we each spend time with the kids?
And so most custody cases are just that.
Most custody cases are just a discussion, a negotiation between counsel about those issues.
And they're not ugly and they're not anything.
They're just people.
Again, sometimes people have differing perspectives, you know, but sometimes people haven't thought through their perspective.
So as a divorce lawyer, a lot of what I'm doing is counseling a person because they come in and say,
Well, I've been the person who handles, you know, all of the homework and all of the everything.
So he should only see the kids on weekends.
And there's a logic to that.
Like, I've always done the homework with the kids.
So I'm the parent who's in charge of the homework.
And he's obviously not done that before.
But there's also a logic that you can then say, right, but then you're doing all the heavy lifting of parenting and he's doing none of that.
And you were a married couple and living together.
So he was trusting you to do that because you're good at it and you seem to like it.
So maybe now we want him to have to do some of the heavy lifting of parenting.
That's a great question, but it's a question that everybody wants there to be a simple answer.
Because we don't want the child when they're 13 to say, I love dad.
We have nothing but a good time together.
Whereas you make me do my homework and eat my broccoli.
Dad's the grass on the other side of the fence that's greener.
So sometimes it's about educating a client to like change their frame, you know, to look at this differently.
Yeah.
Okay.
We always go to my mother's for Thanksgiving.
So I need every Thanksgiving.
Okay.
Well, you were married.
So you went to... Now you're going to have new traditions.
Things are changing for your children.
Things are changing for your family.
You're both going to have new traditions.
So a lot of times it's just educating people on looking at things in a different way, looking at their parenting in a different way.
We're not going to live in the same house anymore, but we're still going to parent this child or these children together.
What's much more interesting, because like, you know, I don't get invited to a lot of parties, but when I get invited to parties, if somebody says...
Like they want me to say cheating or money or, you know, the internet.
what do you do for a living?
And I say, I'm a divorce lawyer.
And they go, oh my God, you must have stories.
So everybody's, oh my God, you must have so many stories.
And if I said, yeah, there was this couple and they,
slowly grew apart and then they decided that it would be good for them to end their relationship as a married couple.
But they wanted to continue to have an amicable co-parenting relationship.
So they divided their assets and they figured out a good parenting access schedule that made sure that they both had both leisure time and responsibilities with the children.
People would be like, that's the worst fucking story.
That's so boring.
Yeah.
So what they really want is the like, and then he was sleeping with the nanny and then she caught him.
So, you know, the truth is like people want to hear about those flame outs.
And by the way, those are super interesting as a lawyer.
Like it's super interesting.
Yeah.
There's a nanny fascination out there.
Hmm.
I try to explain it in the book.
But the reality is, I think it's a lot of little things.
But yeah, I mean, I've had some great nanny stories.
I mean, people run off with the nanny.
People end up getting married to the nanny.
I had one where he convinced her that they should have a threesome with the nanny.
They got the nanny drunk.
They had a bunch of threesomes with the nanny.
And then the nanny and the wife...
paired up and left him.
Oh, nice.
And they're still quite happy.
That seems like a happy ending to the whole thing.
For everyone but him.
But it was his idea.
Yeah.
Well, now he's got to see the nanny who's now the step-parent to the kids.
And it was his bright idea of let's have a threesome with the nanny.
Yeah.
I mean, the nanny thing I think is a function of...
in many circumstances is the characteristics of the wife that he remembers fondly and that have been extinguished by the presence of children.
It's disconnection.
So my words of wisdom is not don't get a nanny or make sure you get an ugly nanny.
My thought on it is that a woman should remember, even when she's a mother, that she's also a woman who a man, you know, they fell in love with each other.
That would be my answer.
And she should take time to be in touch with the part of herself that is an independent woman that's interesting and interested.
The reason marriages fail is disconnection.
And, you know, like...
There's a lot to be learned from divorced couples because like divorced couples, if you do it right,
It's awesome.
Like I had a wonderful experience parenting and being divorced because I divorced when my kids were quite young.
What causes disconnection?
My co-parent, you know, my ex-wife is awesome.
She's a great mom, nice person.
We're good friends.
And it was great.
I had half the time I had my kids and I could focus on them.
And the other half of the time they were with the other person who loves them as much as I do.
And I didn't have any of the responsibilities of kids.
And I could just have...
you know, all of the wonderful fun that you can have when you don't have, you know, the responsibilities that come with full-time caring for children.
That's the bigger and I think more important question because like Tom Wolfe said about bankruptcy, it happens very slowly and then all at once.
My mom used to say that it's hard to define intelligence, but you could spot stupid a mile away.
So I'm much better at pointing out where people fall apart because I spend a lot of time with people who have fallen apart in their relationship.
So it's easy to then say, well, just don't do what they do.
But I don't know that that's not an oversimplification.
So again, I think the answer is no.
I think the answer is affection, presence, you know, mindfulness and presence.
I do think in my personal and professional experience that most people want you fully
more than they just want you in a disconnected way.
So if you were to say to your romantic partner, you can have me for two hours where I'm giving you my undivided attention and I'm really,
Disconnection happens very slowly and then all at once.
joyful to be with you.
Or you can have me for eight hours where I'm sort of half paying attention and I kind of want to be someplace else for part of the time.
There's just no choice there.
It's so obvious.
So I think presence is a big piece.
And I think that, I think the you, the me and the we, I think is important.
Because I think in relationships,
There's you and there's me and we meet.
So most of the time what I think people want is an answer like,
And something magical happens, you know?
And we become we.
And now there's you and there's me and there's we.
And then the we gets bigger and bigger and bigger.
And isn't it great?
Because it's such a nice warm place.
It gets so big.
But it gets so big that you get small and me gets small because we.
And if any of us dares to ask, well, what about you?
What about me?
No, no, the we.
What, you don't like the we?
You don't want to be with the we?
Like, well, no, it's not that.
But the we only exists because there was you and there was me.
And I really like you and you really liked me.
And so we picked each other out of lots of choices.
And now this we is so fucking big, like it threatens to just consume all of it, you know?
cheating but cheating is the big all at once thing how did we get to the place where cheating was even something you were thinking about doing or that you would think about and then cross the line from thought into action and that's i think the the big question so disconnection would be my answer do you think it's possible to introspect like looking backwards for every individual case where the disconnection began and how it evolved sure yeah this is such a multivariate equation
And I really think that
There's something there we have to look at more honestly.
Well, the we is the you and the me.
And if you mix it so much that you and me loses its components, that all that's left is we, I don't think that that's the way to do it.
I just think there's a...
The world pulls us in that direction.
Like we get told culturally that, well, why aren't you going with this person to that?
Why would you do that by yourself?
And why?
Anyone knows that there's joy in being away from each other and there's joy being reunited together.
So why don't we speak very honestly about that?
And I think some of that's our own insecurity.
Well, why don't you want to be with me 24 hours a day?
Aren't I wonderful?
Aren't I delightful?
It's like, well, wait, what?
I mean, it can also be incredibly adventurous going out into the world by yourself and then coming back to the we with a full report.
Yeah.
You know, coming back and saying like, oh my God, guess what I saw?
Guess what I did?
Oh my God, we have to go there together now.
Because all I could think about was you.
You know, while I was there, I was like, oh my God, she would love this.
You know, like, that's magical.
That's amazing.
Like, look what I brought you back.
You know, I went into this and I got you this present from there.
Like, there's something, you know, and we know this, you know, I always thought it was, you know, like when you watch the old Westerns, you know, or like the...
You know, the hero's leaving, you know, and he's walking away from the cabin because he's going to go fight the gunfight.
And she runs up and she goes, please don't go.
Don't go.
Stay here with me.
And he like kisses her and then he goes.
You know, if he goes like, yeah, you're right.
I'll just stay here.
It's cool.
You know, like this is, I didn't want to deal with that anyway.
Like he's not the hero anymore then.
Depends on how you define friend.
If being a friend means we have some connection to each other and we have each other's cell phone numbers, okay, then we're friends.
But if it's a bigger definition than that, if it's like you've picked me up at the airport,
You know, or like, you know, you're someone I could call.
But it's like, dude, I got to hide a body.
Like, you get shoveled in a lime.
Yeah, I tried to go in two directions.
Well, I have to tell you, I define, you know, the Ben Affleck movie, The Town.
Mm-hmm.
You know, that scene, that's friendship to me.
I mean, to me, the ideal male friendship is the scene where he says, I need you to come with me.
We're gonna hurt some people and you never have to ask me about it again.
And he says, whose car are we taking?
And that's sort of like, to me, that's friendship.
So it's a high bar, you know, to be like a friend.
So when you say like friendship, I think that's the kind of friendship you should ideally have with your romantic partner.
If you're getting married, it should be the like, whose car are we taking?
Like it should be that it's you and me.
But you're a big open heart.
wonder how many people out there are like that in terms of hiding the body i mean my theory on this because i think i'm like you in that way i think i think i i'm very sensitive
I feel things really deeply.
And I think the world is terrifying when you feel things very deeply because there's so much pain, there's so much betrayal, there's so many opportunities to be hurt.
And I think when you are that kind of person,
you go through like stages.
And one of them is that, I don't care, I don't feel anything.
It doesn't matter, I don't feel anything.
I don't feel anything.
I won't feel anything.
Well, you try to convince yourself, I don't feel anything.
It's fine, I don't feel anything.
And then at some point, like, you know, you do feel all of it.
And then it's like, oh my God, the weight of this is, I mean, I think it's the whole arc of Pink Floyd, The Wall.
It's literally the entire arc of Pink Floyd, The Wall.
And the song Stop.
I want to go home, take off this uniform and leave the show.
When you feel all of it, the army of hammers coming at you, the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune, the thousand natural shocks the flesh is heir to.
It's a dance.
When you feel all of that deeply, it's very hard.
But it can also be a superpower because I think...
When you can bring that to a relationship, when you can bring that to a profession, like you've done and I've done, then there's something very magical about that.
It's a chemistry.
The ability to bring it out in someone, to feel it in yourself, to understand it, you know, is a gift.
It's what did you do and what did the other person do?
It's a wonderful, wonderful gift.
I'm humbled by what it brought me professionally.
And I'd like to think that you and I have both found professions
That enable us to use that sensitivity, that empathy in a productive and good way and in a fulfilling, a personally fulfilling way.
And ideally in a way that does good for other people.
And see, the interesting thing about being a divorce lawyer is I'm weaponizing intimacy in a courtroom.
That's a good question.
Well, you know, I think when you represent high net worth individuals, but also high performing, I would make a distinction between high net worth and high performing.
So I've done high net worth divorces where the person's like a trust fund kid, even though they're an adult, you know, but they're like, what they did to achieve their high net worth status is their great grandfather died, you know?
So that is different than someone who is self-made,
who through discipline, focus, entrepreneurship, whatever it might be, that they have found success.
And there's also a difference between financial success
and fame, because I've represented famous people that actually did not have that much money in the scheme of things or much liquidity.
And I've represented people that were not in any way famous and were very high performing in their field.
So I'm telling, it's full context storytelling what I do for a living.
Like in New York, we have a lot of finance people.
And what I find is their divorces are challenging.
One, on a technical level, because figuring out what they have and how to divide it is tricky.
Because when something's moving that quickly, like when your portfolio's movement, you know, affects a market, you know, that's challenging.
You know, Jeff Bezos' divorce for a time, when it was in its early stages, could affect Amazon stock.
It did.
So that's a real thing.
There are businesses that are affected by a divorce.
But in terms of being in a relationship with someone who is a high-performing person, most of the high-performing people I know are creatures of discipline.
So what I do is I take my client's story
and routine, you know, from Joe Rogan, you know, we've talked about, you know, any of these people, like they have a routine, they have a discipline, they have a focus, they have a way they like to do things, they have a type of coffee they like to drink, they have a way that they like to do.
And divorce is a tremendous disruption.
I mean, divorce is fundamental things in your life are shifted out of your control.
Like your spouse may be the one who has decided you are no longer going to live in that house.
You will no longer see your children on these days.
And I have to present it to a judge and make my client the hero in every way and the other side the villain in every way.
So to take that control away from someone is very, very hard.
I mean, when someone is a high-performing, high-net-worth person, they are used to being told yes.
They are used to being able to buy their way out of a problem.
But just like illness...
You know, you can hire the best doctor
but you can't cure cancer because you have a lot of money.
Like you can hire the best lawyer, but you can't cure a custody case, you know?
And that's, I mean, Angelina Jolie and Brad Pitt's seemingly endless custody disputes that have been going on for years now with the best lawyers in California working on them is proof of the fact that you can't just buy a resolution to those things, you know?
That you have to go through it just like everyone else.
Average divorce, I mean, it's sort of like a, what I always tell clients in the first consultation is I tell them the most reasonable question a person could ask me sitting in that chair across from me is two.
Now, I have to be careful not to do that in a manner that loses credibility because even a judge would know.
How long is this going to take and how much is it going to cost?
And those are the two questions I can't answer.
And then the next thing they say is, give me a range.
which is a bit like calling your doctor and saying, I have a headache, what is it?
Well, I can't tell you, I'd have to do tests.
Give me a range.
Okay, it's a reaction to the barometric pressure and it'll be gone in 15 minutes.
Or it's a brain aneurysm and you'll be dead in five minutes.
There's your range.
And so it didn't really help, right?
So I have the least expensive divorce I've ever seen is two people who, one of whom comes into my office
and says, we've written down on a yellow pad what we figured out at the kitchen table.
She's going to keep the house.
Even a judge is smart enough to know that no one's all good or all bad.
I'm going to keep the 401k.
We have a bank account at this bank.
We're going to split that 50-50.
I'm going to pay her this much in child support each month, and we're going to agree from time to time on what we're going to do in terms of the schedule with the kids, but they're primarily going to live with her.
Can you write this up and make it legally binding?
Yes.
$3,500.
But...
I've had clients who, with a straight face, will say to me, well, I'm not going to quibble over a few million dollars.
Only if you were reverse engineering a relationship and saying, how did this break?
And they mean it.
Because to them, it's numbers on a page.
So I'll personalize this a bit.
So,
I have a friendly relationship with my ex-wife who's the mother of my sons who are adults.
And we have maintained a very good relationship.
And so now it's many years divorced later, 17, 18 years later.
And we were able to sort of post-game that relationship, even our co-parenting relationship.
You know, we kind of post-game it when we chat with each other.
And I remember once saying to her, you know, yeah, you never...
You never screwed around with me when it came to the kids.
You were always so cool.
If I called you, if I was having a really bad day at work, or seeing just an ugly custody case, and I just felt like I would call her and say, hey, can I just pick the boys up and take them out for ice cream or something tonight?
You really have to look at both people, the good and the bad, what each of them did that moved the dial in these different directions.
I know it's not my night, but would you mind if I just took them out for a couple hours?
She'd be like, yeah, sure, come on by.
She was always flexible like that.
I said to her, was that just goodwill?
You're just a good person?
What was that about?
She was like, yeah, it was partly that, but she was like, it was partly that you never screwed around with me when it came to money.
Like if the kids needed something or if I needed something as the mother of the kids, like you were always like, yeah, sure, of course.
Like her air conditioning kicked out and she needed to replace it and she didn't have like liquidity at the time.
I didn't have a lot of money at the time because it was a long time ago.
And I was like, all right, no, no, no, because I don't want you hot and upset and I don't want the boys, you know, to be in, like, of course.
And so I think, yeah, when you approach a conflict with, like it's very hard to argue with someone who won't argue with you.
If the person approaches the argument from the point of view of like, I'm not going to argue with you.
Like I'm going to absorb your aggression.
I'm going to, I'm going to just not meet it with that.
I'm going to meet it with love.
I'm going to meet it with positivity.
It doesn't always work because sometimes people are so angry that they just are, they're relentless.
But I have to tell you, like the louder you get, the quieter I get, the more you seem irrational, you know?
And, and that's,
I always try to bring that to court proceedings.
Like I always try to bring to court, like if I know my adversary is coming in hard, I'll come in quiet and slow and deliberate because I want the volume to be turned up way too high over there.
And I think that that's very hard for anyone going through a divorce to do about their own relationship.
And then it looks like, your honor, what's their problem over there?
And I think that, I say this to clients.
They got a four-year-old, they're getting divorced, let's say.
There's gonna be a wedding.
in like 20 something years, there's gonna be a wedding.
And it's either gonna be the wedding where they gotta put these people on opposite sides of the room, because if they pass each other by the shrimp boat, they're gonna kill each other.
Or it's the wedding where like you stand there, you take some pictures, you kind of go like, yeah, we fucked up this whole marriage thing, but man, we did a good job with this kid, didn't we?
And the decisions you make right now
there's a straight line to that wedding.
And so even if you don't like this person, even if you're mad at them, even if you're mad at yourself for the choices you made in choosing them as a co-parent, like every single Mother's Day for 27 years,
I have told my now longtime ex-wife, happy Mother's Day.
We don't know who discovered water, but it wasn't a fish.
I'm so glad that we had kids together.
I'm so glad you're the mother of my kids because they wouldn't be who they are if it wasn't that they were part me and part you.
And I'm so grateful for you.
And, you know, I'm always cheering for you.
Like, how hard is that?
How hard is that?
I don't understand why it's so hard for some people.
I'll tell you, I do find that hard.
There's not a lot of things that I kind of don't understand, but that's one that I kind of don't understand.
Like I put in one of the weird things I did as a divorce lawyer that caused like a little stir among my colleagues for a few years was some years ago, like we all steal from each other's work.
Like if you're in it, I don't think you see it clearly.
divorce lawyers.
We're like the matrimonial mafia.
We all know each other.
We all deal with each other over and over again.
But we all have the same job.
And so we're the only people that really know the unique stresses of that job.
I think as a divorce lawyer,
So even though we try to kill each other all day, it's like boxers, like professional fighters.
Like, yeah, your job is to take each other's head off.
But, like, nobody knows what the two of you went through like the two of you.
You know, that's why, like, I always get, like, I go, like, all kinds of rubbery when I see after the fight, like, the two people hug each other.
Because I'm always like, like, yeah.
Because you know what?
They relate to each other better than anybody.
They suffered.
They bled.
You know, the competitors, they bled, you know?
So I really think divorce lawyers, we have that same kind of relationship.
Like we went through this stress, you know, on opposite sides of trying to take each other apart.
whose job is to really drill down on the facts and figure out what's going on in this story, I have to look at both sides.
And I find that, you know,
We all steal from each other's material when it comes to separation agreements, provisions that we use for agreements.
All the agreements are like these Frankenstein monsters of, oh, I like his estate planning provisions.
Oh, I like her provisions related to maintaining a life insurance policy to secure the alimony award.
And I wrote this paragraph or this section because what occurred to me is that when you have a child with someone, and let's say they're three,
or four or five.
They're old enough to know what Christmas is, but they're not old enough to go buy a Christmas present.
But they're old enough to know that you get presents on Christmas and you give presents on Christmas, but they're not old enough to buy one for the parent.
So someone has to do that for them.
So I thought,
I'm going to put in a provision that says that as long as the children are so young that they can't independently purchase a Mother's Day or a birthday present for the co-parent, that you'll take the children either to buy a small gift or to make a card, something like that.
So I have to think a lot about my own arguments, but I also have to think about what's the other lawyer's argument going to be, especially in custody cases.
This struck me as a no-brainer.
Who could disagree with this?
Like it's not for the person, it's for the kid.
It's so the kid, happy birthday, mom.
I don't have a present for you, I don't have a card for you, because I'm fucking five.
Like I'm five, like you can't go do that.
So wouldn't you want your child, not your co-parent, who cares?
Maybe you want them to have the worst birthday ever.
Fine, but you don't want your child to be embarrassed.
And I even put in the provision.
The parties acknowledge that it is the intention of this provision to ensure that the child is not embarrassed and feels, you know, that they were able to say, I cannot tell you how many people refuse to sign that.
How many lawyers said to me, we're taking that out.
And I went, wait, why?
Well, why does my client have to buy a present for your client?
I said,
They're not buying a present for my client.
They're buying a present for the child to give to my client.
It could be one of those little $3 boxes of chocolates they sell at the drugstore.
So I really have been forced to look at both sides for so many years, so deeply in relationships that once you do that, it's very, you realize that the good guy, bad guy thing just doesn't apply.
Like it's a kid, they don't know.
They don't know what anything is.
And people, nope.
And I have to tell you, of the conundrums, of the puzzles that I can't figure out in existence,
That's one I can't figure.
I do not understand why that's so hard.
The level of hatred, the level of vitriol.
Maybe this is me.
If you apologize, there's not a lot I won't forgive.
Like I'm not saying I'll forget it.
I'm not saying, oh, we're totally good like it never happened.
I understand that.
But if someone says what I call a non-bullshit apology, right?
Like a bullshit apology is, oh, I'm sorry you got so upset when I did that.
Like that's a bullshit apology.
You know, I'm sorry that you were offended.
That's a bullshit apology.
Or I'm sorry for what I did.
Because what are we talking about?
We might be talking about the same thing.
Or you might be saying, I'm sorry that you found out about that, not that you did it.
So a real apology is I lied to you.
And I realize that that hurt you.
And I'm really sorry.
I shouldn't have done that.
I regret that I did that.
And I know that it hurt you and I'm really sorry.
That's a real apology, okay?
So someone's willing to give you that and you still want to walk around with like the level of vitriol that you will harm your child rather than do something nice for them.
I don't have a solution to that.
And I have to tell you, I see that all the time.
Parental alienation is a thing.
It is a thing.
Children can be weaponized.
I always tell people, you want to get married, get married.
Get a prenup ideally, but if you don't have a prenup, okay, you're just risking money.
Don't worry, you're just risking money.
Money and hassle of paperwork and of time and of going through an ugly financial divorce.
But you have a kid with somebody,
You have, that is a missile.
Like that person has a power over you for a long time, if not forever.
Routinely.
People weaponize children all the time and they do it
they do it with the permission of their own conscience because they genuinely believe I'm gonna protect this person, this child from this person who, by the way, is a bad spouse.
But that doesn't mean they were a bad father or a bad mother.
You can be bad at being a spouse, but the skillset of a spouse and of a parent, it's not necessarily the same.
And I've seen people,
People alienate children from a parent in such subtle ways, but they're so powerful.
And as a lawyer, you know, it doesn't matter what I know.
It matters what I can prove.
And it's very hard to prove alienation because it's usually a very subtle process.
And the example I always give to people is it's a rare kind of crazy person that will say to a seven-year-old, your dad is a bad person.
But this, hello, here's your dad.
You just said your dad's a bad person.
You just did it with your eyes.
You did it with the expression on your face when you handed the phone to the kid.
You told that kid your dad's a bad person.
You didn't have to say it out loud.
And that is something people are guilty of all the time.
When the kid comes home and says, there's a divorced couple, kid comes home and says, oh, I met mom's new boyfriend.
And you go, oh yeah, that's nice.
Remember, he's not your dad.
You know, like, whoa, like you just told that kid a whole bunch of information about how he's supposed to feel about this person.
Whereas if you go, oh, that's nice.
He's a nice guy.
Oh, that's great.
I heard nice things.
Yeah, I heard he's really, he likes bicycles.
That's cool.
That's really neat.
Like you just told this kid, okay, it's okay.
You can like this person.
It's okay to like this person.
It's okay that your mom is with this person.
Like, and again, whatever you feel about your ex, your co-parent,
Usually you love your kid more than you hate your ex, ideally.
I don't know, to me, forgiveness is very often, it's for me.
When I let go of anger, I feel lighter.
I think my heart enjoys peace.
I mean, partly it's because I fight for a living.
I work in the world of conflict.
I jokingly used to say to my sons when they were teenagers, I can only argue if you've paid.
It's not fair to the paying customers.
If I argue with you for free, that's not fair.
You don't think granola and blowjobs is self-explanatory?
Yeah, yellow pad, two people, came to an agreement, write it up, make it legally binding, five grand maybe, you know, tops.
But usually $3,500, five grand, that kind of vibe.
Most expensive, millions, millions in council fees.
Yeah, the duration, the complexity of issues.
Like I have clients who've paid two, three million in council fees to me.
Well, it can be complex custody that requires a hearing, that requires expert testimony, dueling mental health professionals, opining on the parenting.
It can be a situation where emergency circumstances occur, like where an individual tries to abscond to another country with the children and you have to bring them back under the Hague Convention on international child abduction.
Oh, wow.
Yeah, we've done some Hague cases.
You know, there are cases where people have very different facts.
Like before I came here today, a client of mine's soon-to-be ex-husband, who she's in the middle of, he tested positive for cocaine.
on a hair follicle test, where it was said he was definitely not going to test positive, and he tested positive.
So it was like we were scurrying now with, okay, we gotta get a motion filed, we gotta suspend access, we gotta protect the kids, we gotta get in front of a judge, we gotta think about what are the implications of this, because he was about to transition to an unsupervised parenting.
This is the kind of stuff that can amp up the amount of work the lawyer has to do, which then translates to money.
I mean, I get paid,
For my time, you know and the time of my team, you know, I have attorneys and paralegals who work for me So I when you have a team of lawyers working on a case you can burn Tens of thousands of dollars a day if it's a big enough case There are also very complex financial cases, you know people move and hide money high net the high net worth space is a different world like if if
An average person owns a home.
They own a home in their name or their name with their spouse.
A high net worth person owns an LLC that owns that home.
That LLC is owned by a trust.
They are a beneficial interested party in that trust.
Like this is how some of my clients who make tens if not hundreds of millions of dollars a year pay less in taxes than a cop or a firefighter.
because they have structures.
And the structures that were designed for tax planning purposes then in a divorce become very tricky to unwind and to figure out, wait, no, what is mine and what is not, you know?
It's not popular to quote Kanye West, but...
If you ain't no chump, hollow, we want prenup.
We want prenup.
I mean, that's what he had to say.
Meaning, so prenup was a good idea.
Prenup is an excellent idea.
Prenup is...
A prenup is a contract between two people that binds their respective rights and obligations in the event of a divorce when it comes to financial issues.
That's all it is.
And there's a lot of reasons to have them.
And there really aren't any reasons not to have them other than the fact it requires an uncomfortable conversation.
I would say when it's reached like a critical mass.
Yes.
If they are crafted correctly, which is not that hard to do for a lawyer to do.
I'm saying for a lawyer to do, because with the internet, everybody thinks, why would I spend $1,000?
I can just Google prenuptial agreement and I can get one and then it'll be... That is a bad idea.
It is like a will.
If you're going to have a document that binds your rights at that level, it's worth...
The most expensive prenup I've ever done was like three grand.
That's ridiculous.
That's not a lot of money.
So there's no reason you wouldn't do it, but people still, people will still.
I've had clients that have hundreds of thousands of dollars and they did their prenup downloading something from the internet and because of some imperfection,
Because I think it started before that when she said, yeah, I used to give him blowjobs and, you know, when we were in our early relationship and then one day, like, I just was like, oh, well, you know, we don't have as much time.
you know, it doesn't have the right, what's called acknowledgement, which is the section where the notary signs, and it has to say that it was duly sworn before this person on this date.
And if it doesn't have that, it's invalid, it's not binding.
So there are weird technicalities, but yeah, prenups are binding.
As long as there's been some minimal asset disclosure,
which is easily done in a prenup.
And as long as there's not a language deficiency, meaning that the person who is reading it understands English to the level that they understand what they're signing.
And if they don't, that at least they've acknowledged in their native language that there is some opportunity for this to be translated for them.
Yeah, they're binding.
They're presumptively binding.
We live, thankfully, in a culture where people are allowed to enter into contracts about money.
That's generally true that both sides get half.
Equitable distribution, which is what the law is called, it's the law of equitable distribution.
It's not called the law of equal distribution for a reason, because it's equitable, not equal.
Now, equitable is presumed to be equal, but there are exceptions to that presumption, and that's where lawyers can get into fun and or trouble, depending on how you view it.
It's where we make our money.
We make our money.
arguing that the fair result will not be just a 50-50 split.
And so there's the very generic standard prenup, which is easy.
Like, well, I'll wait until later and we'll have sex and then we both enjoy it.
And I call that yours, mine, and ours.
Like if it's in your name, it's yours, whether it's an asset or a liability.
My name, it's mine.
Joint names, we split it 50-50.
Simple, clean.
And you go in to the marriage now knowing what the rules are.
Blowjobs are inefficient.
So if you get a bonus at work and you put it in your sole name, then it's your separate property in the event you divorce.
You go out and buy a boat and she doesn't support you buying the boat, but you got a big loan on this boat.
You're responsible for that loan.
So I like that because I like people having some control.
Yeah, exactly correct.
And I also like people having to have discussions.
Well, why are we putting that bonus just in your bank account?
Why wouldn't we put it in the joint bank account?
We should have that discussion while we're married, not when we're in a divorce lawyer's office 10 years later, because we should be able to talk about those kinds of things.
So, you know, what's interesting about prenups
You match it all together.
is that somehow people think there's something, like it takes away from the romance of a marriage.
But I've said it before and I'll say it again, all marriages end.
Yeah.
So she said, well, exactly.
They end in death or divorce.
So having life insurance or having a will, it doesn't mean you can't wait to die.
And they had kids at that point.
It doesn't mean you're looking forward to death.
It doesn't mean that you're predicting your demise sometime imminently.
It just means that you're being realistic and honest.
So I think she really was like, hey, we've got a certain window.
So when you marry, and I don't mean spiritually marrying, having a marriage ceremony.
I mean legally marrying.
You're making changes to your rights and obligations under law.
That's what you're doing.
Like marriage, from a legal standpoint, what we mean when we say I got married, is a state agency.
It's been created by the state.
Like this is a legal status that most people who are in it know nothing about.
Yeah.
They just did the most legally significant thing they're ever going to do other than dying.
So let's have something we both enjoy.
and they have no idea what rights and obligations it created in them.
And the first time they're gonna get an education about it is in my office.
That's crazy.
That's crazy.
So first of all,
Whenever someone approaches me about prenups, and that's like four or five times a week probably, depending on the season.
So I don't think she had any negative intentions there.
Right before wedding season, we get a lot.
Well, it used to just be the summer.
They say when you marry in June, you're a bride all your life.
That's from some Rodgers and Hammerstein musical.
Now the fall is very big too.
People love fall content, fall weddings, pretty pictures and things.
Oh, God.
Yeah.
It's good on the gram.
All right.
That's a hashtag.
Weddings is for the gram.
I have to tell you, weddings is performative, man.
See, the problem is, though, it's curated.
So here's us picking the cake.
It's not here's us doing the prenup.
You know how many people I've done prenups for that I've watched on their social media or them being interviewed by Andy Cohen on Bravo and saying, well, no, we don't have a prenup.
I think that she was working in good faith towards the betterment of the relationship.
Yeah, you do.
Yeah, you do.
You do.
It's in my office.
It's in a folder.
Yeah.
They don't even know.
That's beautiful.
But prenups are not published anyplace.
They're not filed with a court.
They're maintained by the two people that signed it and their lawyers.
That's it.
So nobody has to admit that they have a prenup.
Yes, but there's a certain problem with that insofar as...
a lot of people have prenups and we need to normalize prenups.
Like there's no reason not to normalize prenups.
There's no reason not for, for, for until some famous people say, yeah, we have a prenup.
We're crazy about each other.
That's why we're getting married, you know, but yeah, look, we're getting, you know, I don't want to get a car accident, but I got a seatbelt, you know, like you have it just in case.
But it was having this second order effect.
Yeah, his was before it was anything.
Well, no, actually, it's the same.
I mean, what you're doing with a prenup is you're identifying...
you're identifying how things will be classified in advance.
And so I...
So you're creating a set of rules, and then you both can function under those rules during the marriage.
So for a brief time, I taught a family law drafting class at a law school.
And when we would do separation agreements and we would do pleadings, it was lots of fun.
I really do think that, yeah, the blowjob's granola.
When we would do prenups, I would say to the students, what's the main thing you need when you're doing a prenup?
And they would say, well, you need asset disclosure.
And I'd say, well, that's not the main thing.
And they'd say, well, you need technical language.
I'd say, nope.
The main thing you need is a crystal ball.
The main thing you need is the ability to see what's going to happen in the future.
Who's going to have money?
Who's not?
Who's going to be successful?
Who isn't?
What people will inherit?
Problem is we don't have that.
We don't have that.
So what can we do?
We can create tranches.
We can create structures.
We can create systems.
And then people can live with those in mind.
You enter the game knowing the rules, right?
I mean, anyone who's been in a long-term relationship, I guess it's just worth asking the question, what does this person do that makes me feel loved?
So...
You know if this is gonna be a submission only event.
You know if this is gonna be no time limit.
You know if we're after a certain number of minutes, we're going into points now, okay?
So I can work with that rule set, and I'm gonna amend my game based on that rule set.
Same thing, same thing.
You're just gonna say, look, what's the rule set?
Let's agree on the rule set, and then let's conduct ourselves with the rule set in mind.
Let's plan the rule set in mind.
And I think that, you know, by the way, and if you're going to cheat, you cheat with the rule set in mind.
You know you're cheating, right?
You know you're trying to get around the rule set.
So prenups are, when I do a consult for a prenup, the first thing I do is here's what's going to happen legally if you marry without a prenup.
Here's what happens to your rights and obligations.
Then...
What we can change with that, there's almost no limit.
You can amend anything you want to.
The example I always give is there was a case that went up to the appellate court where a high net worth guy married a very beautiful woman.
And there was a provision in the prenuptial agreement that said for every 10 pounds she gained during the marriage, she would lose $10,000 a month in alimony if they divorced.
And there was, here's her baseline weight as of the time of execution of this agreement.
And I wondered if she was like, did like what a wrestler does.
Like, did she like, you know, did she like bulk up right before and then cut when she eventually got divorced?
Like, is she in there with sauna, you know, with the suit on?
But, and the appellate court essentially said, I don't know why you married this person, having had them make you sign this, but it's binding.
But it's binding.
Like some motivation on you.
Yeah, exactly.
I think Tim Ferriss says that about how he does like...
he said you should make bets with people.
Like, it's like, if you gain this much, I got to give you this amount of money, you know?
Because I think it's very interesting in my own experience in life
And he says that in one of his early books.
Yeah.
I think when we create incentives of that kind, you know, that's why like there was like the no nut November, no shave November, you know, sober, like all those, it was a competition.
When people make a competition of something, they gamify something.
It, you know, makes it something that people are more likely to stick with.
So, I mean, I guess a prenup,
Be interesting.
The problem is there's also, people put in prenups what's called fidelity clauses.
Fidelity clauses, people still do these.
I discourage people from doing them.
The two things that people put in prenups that I discourage people from putting in prenups, but very often people still put in prenups, even with my caveat, is fidelity clauses and sunset clauses.
So fidelity clauses is, I'm waving alimony, I'm waving this, I'm waving that, but if you cheat,
I get a million bucks or I get this much alimony or I get this amount.
And I know the intention is to disincentivize the person from cheating.
It's a deterrent to have them cheat.
I remember I had a difficult chapter with one of my sons, my younger son, when he was in his early 20s.
But all it really does is just creates like an interesting legal battle for lawyers.
Like how did you prove that they cheated or not?
Right, right.
Is an emotional affair an affair?
Is oral sex cheating?
And by the way, how do you prove it?
Like, well, I was in a hotel with her, but how do you prove that I had sex with her?
And it's very, very, you're opening a can of worms with that kind of a thing, but people sometimes still put them in.
And sunset clauses.
Sunset clauses is if we're married X period of time, this goes away as if it never existed.
And why is that a bad idea?
The same reason the community property law in California is a bad idea.
So the community property law is after a certain number of years, I think it's seven,
everything, including your premarital property, all becomes marital property.
And the idea of that was supposed to be that if you've been married that number of years, like you're in enough of a serious relationship now that everything is one unit, you're one person.
What it actually does is creates a very uncomfortable thought experiment that people have to have at the six-year mark.
And we were having a heartfelt conversation.
Because you have to, now the honeymoon's kind of over.
You might have a kid or two.
And you go, okay, wait a minute.
Am I so happy in this relationship that I'm willing to take all of my premarital assets and throw them in the pot right now?
Because if not, I got six months to get divorced.
Like, and that's not, so like if you say to someone, like if you got married tomorrow and then you found a company that's worth $100 million, right?
And I said to him, do you know I love you?
And under your prenup, that's your separate property.
But there's a sunset clause that says that your prenup goes out the window in 15 years.
Man, at year 14 and six months, you got to ask yourself some serious questions about where's this relationship going to be in five, 10 years.
That's it.
We get paid to see around corners, you know?
And he said, well, yeah, of course I do.
I get paid to be paranoid.
I tell people that all the time.
I said, but do you feel my love?
Yeah, I mean, what I wanted to say is that all infidelity is not the same, that there's different kinds.
And some of them are more obvious than others.
Like there's the soulmate.
That's the one I think I see most often, which is a person meets another person or rekindles on social media or elsewhere, a reconnection with another person in their life.
Like, do you feel it?
And they go, oh my God, this is the person I'm supposed to be with.
I'm in love.
The heart wants what the heart wants.
Like I'm leaving you for this person because I have found my true love.
Not just do you know it intellectually, do you feel it?
That's one type.
And it's an incredibly common type.
And there's, you know, there are plenty of cautionary tales associated with that where people thought that they found their someone and then it turns out it was, you know, no, it was just unfair, you know.
And, you know, a man who leaves his wife for his mistress just leaves a new job opportunity open.
And I remember thinking to myself, when do we feel someone's love, right?
Oh, yes.
If we were going to invent an infidelity generating machine, it would be called Facebook, which, by the way, is a function of the fact the book was written in 2019.
I would now change it to Instagram.
Yes.
But now if I had to rewrite it, it would be if we were going to invent an infidelity generating machine, it would be called Meta.
That would be what would happen.
Yeah.
Very tech forward.
It was a function of what Facebook and I think Instagram also are, which is it is a communication tool that has people looking into windows that I think are antagonistic to marriage.
You're looking into the lives of other people.
You're looking into the social lives of people that you meet casually.
So there was a time where you would be at your son's soccer practice and see the attractive mom across the way.
Like what is it that they do?
And you wouldn't really talk to her, interact with her.
If you did, it would just be at practice.
But now we add on social media those people because for legitimate reasons, we need to maybe communicate about when practice is or we want to message the person.
But now it's sort of an invitation to a connection.
And then it's, you know, there's a picture of her on vacation in a bikini.
And sometimes it's the weirdest, silliest things that they would never know.
That's very intriguing.
And then you have a benign, oh, I saw you guys went on vacation.
Where did you stay?
You know, oh, was it good?
Did you like that?
Oh, that's nice.
And now we're talking and now we're having an interaction.
And now this is how the spark of affairs begins.
It's usually, people don't usually meet and go, would you like to potentially wreck your marriage?
Yes, would you?
Oh my God, let's do this.
Like it's much more, you know, it slowly happens.
So when I talk about types of infidelity-
the soulmate, the unexpected soulmate, this connection that you didn't expect.
I didn't expect to fall in love with this person, but I did and the heart wants what the heart wants and I'm sorry.
That one's tough.
That one's tough because it's an interesting distinction between men and women to some degree that when a man finds out his wife was cheating, the question is, did you fuck him?
They are the person who's showing us that they love us and that we're feeling their love.
And when a woman finds out that a man cheated, the question is, do you love her?
And those are different things.
Yeah, there have been by much smarter people than me.
But I think that the soulmate thing is very, very painful for a lot of my female clients.
When a man says, listen, I found the one.
I found the one and it's not you.
That is really, really hard to get past.
They would never show us.
even when it turned out to be true.
I mean, I've seen some people that, you know, it was an affair that turned into 20 plus year marriages, you know?
So an unhappy marriage and then a happy affair that turned into a very happy marriage.
Like I've not seen, there's not a formula, you know?
Like I've been doing it long enough now that I've seen permutations I never would have expected.
Like if you said, why does this person love you?
So that's one type of infidelity.
The other is what I call the push out of the closet, which is, and that I think happened more often earlier in my career.
There have been tremendous strides, I think, in the lesbian and gay community, where, including marriage equality, obviously, where there's a lot of change as to people accepting people as being gay or lesbian.
They wouldn't say, oh, because I always make sure that when the paper comes, I bring it from the bottom of the driveway to the door so they don't have to go out and get it.
And I think that there was a time where, you know,
People were having – being in the closet was much more important.
You were subject to professional scorn and, you know, all kinds of things if you were gay or lesbian.
So people were sneaking around and having affairs with their same-sex partners and then they get caught and then, you know, it really was a function of the fact that they were closeted.
And again, that's another kind of complicated dynamic because –
You know, I haven't had that happen to me where a woman left me for a woman, but I'd like to think it would be easier for me.
Because if you left me for a man, you're saying I want one like you, but better than you.
Whereas if you leave me for a woman, well, that's a whole different set of equipment.
I don't have that.
So like, I can't,
Like, okay, it's not me, it's you.
It's something you want that I can't offer.
We don't serve that at this restaurant, so it's okay.
I get it.
I mean, there's a betrayal, there's a sadness, whatever, but it's a different thing.
The saddest type of infidelity, in my opinion, is the mistake, which is someone just makes a mistake.
Or I always hold the door for them.
They just, people do dumb shit when it comes to sex.
Like people just, in a moment, you know, they follow temptation, their impulse control is poor, you know, and they do something that doesn't reflect their morality or doesn't reflect the depth of their feelings.
Or I, you know, oh, I always, like, again, I buy the granola that I know this person likes, you know.
Like, have you spent enough time in a room with people who've cheated in a relationship and are speaking candidly to you about it because you're their lawyer?
And they'll say to you very openly, like, no, I really love my wife.
I really love my wife.
Like, I just, I don't know.
I was just an idiot.
Like, I just, you know, I saw this bright, shiny object and I went for it.
I really wanted to sleep with that woman.
Like, I wanted to fuck her.
I love my wife.
I make love to my wife.
I love my wife, but I just want to sleep with this one, you know?
And we created a culture where one of those eradicates the other.
I don't, that's a whole nother discussion is, you know, or is there ethical non-monogamy?
Like, should we, is marriage about who I have sex with or is marriage a different kind of a partnership?
Or I remembered that they don't like it when I put on this particular record, so I don't put it on.
Is it a pair bond that's about building a life together?
You know, and where does monogamy fit into that?
And people like Esther Perel, those are people who are making very intelligent discussions about that.
Well, let's see, and this is one of those, like, from a research perspective, this would be flawed.
because I see the, they're in my office because their marriage is falling apart.
So there may be lots of people having open relationships that don't end up in a divorce lawyer's office, so I'd never meet them.
But I meet a lot of people that that was the Hail Mary pass.
Like, I meet a lot of people that they tried that, but in retrospect, it was a Hail Mary pass.
It was like, look, we've just figured let's try this.
Like, maybe this will keep the glue together on this thing, you know?
And those are these, yes, they're small things, but they're not small.
And I've also seen open relationships go wrong, you know, where...
we agree we're just gonna have sexual connections with other people or we're gonna bring other people into the bedroom.
But together, like we're gonna be together with other people or with another person.
And then that connection of those two people, like, do you think it's a soulmate all of a sudden now?
And it goes in this other, because, and again, is that novelty?
Is that, like, it's the reason why I don't understand why people have threesomes.
It's kind of like,
You know, when someone sings to you, I don't know where to look.
Like, I don't know where to look.
Like, if someone's singing to me, I don't know where to look.
Like, it feels weird, right?
Like, this is a conundrum I have.
No, this.
I'll say this to you.
This will never.
But it's the reason I can't go to strip clubs.
I don't know where to look.
Like if I go to strip club, you know, like you go to strip club and there's, you know, the part where the woman's on the stage and she walks past each person who does a little thing and then next person and then next little thing.
They're kind of everything.
So when she's right in front of you, I like a woman's face and I like a woman's body.
I like both of them.
So I'm looking at the woman's face and she's very beautiful.
but she's naked.
And I think, oh, she's naked.
I should be looking at her naked body because obviously that's like, it's almost rude not to because she's naked in front of me.
Of course.
So then I'm looking at her naked body, which is lovely to look at.
But then I find myself going, oh my God, you're just still like, you should look at her face for God's sake.
And then I look at her face and find myself having this whole thing in my head where I'm going like, oh my God, where am I supposed to look?
Well, 100%.
So I think a threesome within
Two women you don't hardly know or you're not... That's different.
But a threesome with a long-term partner who you're in a relationship with and a new person...
seems to me a very dangerous ground because you're going to want to enjoy the novelty of this new person, but you're going to have to spend time with this person after.
It takes away some of the power of it, right?
So how much attention do you spend to the new novel exciting thing without creating the impression that you don't, you're not interested in this because you want, you're my favorite person, but this is fun.
When you point it out, then the person realizes, oh, okay, he likes this or dislikes this.
So I want to just try this for a few, but then also I don't want to forget about that.
Like it just seems tricky.
Right.
And there's an easy way to misinterpret the data, right?
Like, so if I really like sleeping with my partner, but
I get one chance to sleep with this other person.
Like, well, of course I should indulge in that because I can do this anytime.
But this person, my partner might interpret that as, oh, so you're more interested in her than me because that voice in my partner that would be, you know, insecure might hear that, you know?
So I just, why would you even, why would you open yourself up to that level of chaos and
How do we get on threesomes?
So yes, there becomes a deliberateness to it, a conscious.
I don't know.
I always wonder how people get on threesomes.
I think if one is fun, two must be better.
If two is better, three must be better.
Yeah, I think the way that this becomes an issue is why would you have a non-monogamous relationship?
What is it about your sex life with this person that's not satisfying?
And I think that that is the question that's harder to ask yourself and to try to answer with your partner.
So I understand not pointing that out when it's a good thing.
Is that true?
I think it's unrealistic.
I think it's wonderful that we do because sometimes now people don't get that reference anymore.
Like I talk to people when I try to teach negotiation to young lawyers who come work for me, I tell them to watch the Gary Oldman scene where he offers them the Chinese food.
Why is that scene the one that really... Because it's the best negotiating lesson I've ever heard in my life.
Where he comes in, he... Just for the record.
Yeah.
Gary Oldman plays a pimp.
Yes.
And he owns, his girl is Patricia Arquette, right?
And Christian Slater's character, the protagonist, is coming in to tell Gary Oldman that he no longer owns this girl.
Alabama is her name.
Alabama.
Alabama.
is gonna be with him now.
I think when it's a negative thing, like I think in the granola situation, if she had said to him, hey-
And Gary Oldman is a amazing performance.
And he's sitting in a living room with a shotgun next to him with armed guys around him, watching television and eating Chinese food.
And he's got Chinese food laid out in front of him.
And Christian Slater comes in and he says, I need to talk to you about Alabama.
And Gary Oldman says, do you want some Chinese food?
And Christian Slater is sort of taken aback by the question.
He says, no, I came to talk about Alabama.
She's with me now.
And he proceeds to tell him what his offer essentially is.
And Gary Ullman says, you know, you fucked up, right?
In sum and substance, he says, you know, if you'd sat down and started eating my Chinese food, I would have thought,
who's this guy?
He didn't have a care in the world, just sitting down eating my egg foo young.
But instead you tried to be hard and now I know you're full of shit.
And so I think that scene summarizes how in negotiation, the more you enter into it with that, like anytime I deal with another lawyer and they're like, well, we'll see you in court.
Okay.
See you in court.
Like empty barrels make the most noise.
Like you and I as people who've been in the jujitsu community, I know some dangerous people.
I know FBI SWAT people.
I know people that are, they know how to do things to people.
And they're the calmest guys you ever meet in your life.
You scuff their sneaker.
They go, oh, yeah, don't worry about it, man.
It's okay.
Okay.
Like, they're quick to apology.
Like, they're just chill.
Yeah, soulmate.
Yeah, well, you're saying that this idea, like, with that film underlying, there's this current of, like, they were made for each other.
you used to do this and you've stopped.
Yeah.
I think there's a distinction between...
between the feeling that someone is your missing puzzle piece, that you're made for this person.
I think what that just means is there's a lot of overlapping beautiful connections.
I love them intellectually.
I love them sexually.
I love them interpersonally.
We have some shared history.
We have some shared commonalities.
We were raised in the same culture, raised in the same religion.
We have politically similar ideas.
That feels like something to me.
Like these are all... Or we have totally opposite ones, but they're complementary.
Like I've always joked that like finding someone with complementary pathologies, you know, like I'm obsessively disciplined.
So having a partner who's like flexible and like spontaneous is really good for me.
And also me being like, no, no, no, come on, come back.
Like she said, she didn't say anything about that.
We're going to do this now.
No, no, it's time to actually do this now.
Like we're good for each other.
It's barefoot in the park.
You know, it's this idea of like, you know, the yin and the yang.
So...
What I have an issue with is that the definition of soulmate that I think is sold to so many people now is this idea that if your partner
Just like he probably didn't say anything about the blowjobs.
is disappointing to you in any way, meaning they're not the perfect travel companion, they're not the perfect vocabulary companion, they're not the perfect roommate, they're not the perfect lover.
The odds of someone being all of those seems crazy to me.
It's infinitesimally small and they don't have to be everything.
Like, I think if there had been a moment of this is starting, let's talk about it while it's starting.
If I go to a restaurant and eat 10 courses and one of them is kind of subpar,
And the other nine are the most amazing culinary experience I've ever had.
How dare I say, well, that wasn't the right restaurant.
What do you mean?
That's a great restaurant.
What are you talking about?
Of course, there was one little thing.
So I think it's impossible to have someone never disappoint you.
It's impossible to have someone who never lets you down or doesn't say and do the exact right thing at the exact right time.
And to create the idea or expectation in anyone that your partner should never let you down, never disappoint you, never not know what to say is, I think, crazy.
I mean, I find for myself when someone, for example, loses someone, when someone loses a family member or a pet,
I often say the same thing to the person.
I'll either talk to them or send them a text or call them and I'll say, I wish I knew the perfect thing to say because I would say it right now.
But I know there isn't.
I know that I don't say that part, but I know there isn't.
There isn't a perfect thing to say.
But if there was a perfect thing to say, I would say it right now.
But people wait.
Love to me is not that you never let this person down.
It's that you never want to let this person down.
Love is a verb.
It's this feeling of I never want to disappoint you.
From what I can see, people wait until the big thing happens.
I will disappoint you.
but I never want to disappoint you.
I will hurt you, but I never want to hurt you.
When I hurt you, it will be my insecurity, my stupidity, my humanity that causes me to hurt you, but I will never intentionally hurt you.
You know, I will betray your trust.
I'll never intentionally betray your trust.
Like I will, by my stupidity, say the wrong thing or loose lip, say something to someone that you didn't want me to, but it won't be intentional.
I will always try to be on your team.
That feels to me like a realistic thing.
The financial impropriety, the substance use disorder, the cheating.
It's too heavy.
It just feels, I feel like when you see a couple that's 90 years old and they've been together for 60 years, 70 years,
They wait for that to happen.
There is, of course, a temptation to think about all the beauty that they've seen on that journey together, the children, the grandchildren, maybe the great-grandchildren, all the joy that they've seen, all the pain they've endured and struggled together, you know?
And then they go, where did we go wrong?
they've also disappointed each other a whole bunch of times.
Probably let each other down.
They probably lied to each other a bunch.
And to me, that is a beautiful thing.
That is not...
It's great in spite of that.
It's great because of that.
And the answer is quite a while ago with the granola.
They still love each other, even though they've been so flawed and imperfect.
And they're human, and they still love each other.
They still rode that thing together because the reasons to do so were greater than the reasons to not.
Yeah.
I, you know, it's very, I've seen some crazy fights.
I have, even on my phone, I, I have some recordings of,
Cause now there's, you know, cameras everywhere.
It's like nest cams and, you know, ring cams.
And so a lot of this gets recorded and, and people, you know, have phones so readily available that they can record the other person and know it.
And I listened to the way people speak to their, first of all, I listened to the way people speak to each other.
And I'm shocked.
I listened to the way people speak to their romantic partner, to their spouse.
And I'm, I'm blown away.
I'm blown away.
Disrespect or what?
Just disrespect, insults, profanity, just degradation, just brutality.
And then to then kind of go on the next day, you kind of go on like nothing happened.
I'm shocked by it.
I mean, I listen to it and I think like, if someone ever spoke to me that way, I don't know that...
I could ever really feel deep connection to them freely.
I would feel so betrayed, that they just so brutal.
I can't imagine speaking to someone that way, such vicious insults to someone.
But I understand that's how some people communicate perhaps.
I guess the question of how much fighting,
is too much fighting in the relationship is for me a bit like the question how much sex is enough sex in the relationship.
It depends on the two people and their individual tastes.
But what's problematic is when there is a disconnect between the two people.
Like, so if, you know, there's a,
I think it's Annie Hall.
It's one of the Woody Allen films where Diane Keaton and Woody Allen are both talking to their respective therapists about the relationship, but it's like a split screen.
And she says, I mean, we have sex all the time.
We have sex like once a week.
And he goes, we never have sex.
We have sex like once a week.
And, you know, it's funny because it's true.
It really is this, you know, they both know the same data, but they're interpreting that data set completely differently.
And I think, you know...
The question you have to start asking is like, what is, you know, Steve Harvey actually once said something funny to me.
He said that success is not where you are.
Success is where you are in relation to where you started.
He says, because if success is where you are, Oprah's got us all beat.
Yeah.
Or maybe Elon's got us all beat.
I don't know.
But if it's where you are versus where you started, because there's a lot of people that started on second and, you know, started on third act like they hit a double, you know, like, well, I was given 10 million, but then I turned it into 100 million.
Well, the first million is the hardest.
So, you know, come on.
But I think the question of like, how much sex were we having?
at the beginning of the relationship, that might be the wrong gauge, because that's like we couldn't keep our hands off each other and we just, it's novelty.
But, you know, like how far, how much sex we're having post-children versus before the children, that might be worth looking at.
You know, like how do we compare it?
You know, like, am I overweight compared to what?
When I was 20 and running marathons or most 50-year-old men?
I don't know.
I got to, like, what do you compare it to?
So I think fighting, there are some people that I think they enjoy fighting.
Like, they enjoy argument.
You know, I know people that enjoy political debate.
I don't particularly enjoy political debate.
Not that I'm not very interested in political concepts, economic concepts.
I just, I argue for a living.
So in my free time, I don't find argument that enjoyable.
When it's intense, I find discussion more interesting.
Well, did you ever, you know, Bob Goldthwait, Bobcat Goldthwait, the comedian, very, very funny.
And he had a whole second chapter as like a director and a writer.
But he has this, you know, I saw an interview with him once where he said, you know, yeah, he says like, I'm a comedian.
I've been a comedian a long time.
People always come up to me and they're like, oh, you're a comedian.
Do you want to hear a joke?
He's like, and all I can think is, oh yeah, that'd be a real fucking treat.
Like I haven't heard jokes all day, all night for years.
That would be a real special occasion.
Yes.
Like I get it, you know?
But that may be a function of, you know, that it is enjoyable to be the other thing.
Yeah.
You know, one of the things I've always thought was very funny in relationships is
my own relationships is most women I know who have a husband who doesn't wear a suit every day for a living.
When their husband gets dressed up, like they're going to a wedding or something, they get like, oh my God, look at, like, look at him, you know?
And I wear a suit every day, you know?
On the weekends I don't, I wear like jeans and a black t-shirt, but the rest of the time I wear a suit.
And I remember, I think this has been true in every relationship I've been in since I was a lawyer, including my ex-wife.
It was always like, if I had on jeans and I wasn't shaven, it was like, look at you.
It's like...
Are you kidding me?
Like, really?
Like, whereas the suit, they wouldn't even notice.
Wouldn't even notice the suit.
Well, that's what it is.
It's the novelty of the other thing.
So I think that if you're Robin Williams and you're like being shot out of a cannon in terms of your performative style and your energy and explosive,
Yeah, being quiet must be very refreshing.
Like I imagine, you know, incredibly intelligent people must love just watching stupid humor or having a dumb, it's why some of the smartest people I know like really dumb shit, you know?