James Hibbard (Reporter)
Appearances
The Binge Crimes: Finding Mom's Killer
The Arsonist Next Door | 3: The Big Scoop
That hit hard. It was like everything swoons for a moment. I didn't really know what to do with it, so I just got to work asking questions instead. He's doing a lot of the talking initially and kept using the word they. He said that there are a group of four of them.
The Binge Crimes: Finding Mom's Killer
The Arsonist Next Door | 3: The Big Scoop
He talked about how he set the fires. He would say details like how he would wait for a calm night with no gusting winds, how they prayed before each fire, how they didn't want firefighters to be hurt.
The Binge Crimes: Finding Mom's Killer
The Arsonist Next Door | 3: The Big Scoop
I noticed that he didn't use the word arson. He always called it like activities.
The Binge Crimes: Finding Mom's Killer
The Arsonist Next Door | 3: The Big Scoop
He starts, like, grooving and enjoying the music and lecturing. You know, if you don't look suspicious, suspicion isn't drawn to you, he said. One of our keys to success is how well we blend in. At one point, he said something like, you know, what did they expect, you know, for me to carry an Olympic torch? He struck me as arrogant, cocky, and kind of controlling.
The Binge Crimes: Finding Mom's Killer
The Arsonist Next Door | 3: The Big Scoop
One question that was important to me was how he feels when he lights these fires. And the reason I wanted to know that is I wanted to try and get at what's driving all this really. Because he talked about the politics, but I didn't really get the sense that this guy was an eco-warrior. It felt more personal.
The Binge Crimes: Finding Mom's Killer
The Arsonist Next Door | 3: The Big Scoop
So I asked him how he feels when he lights a fire, and he says, there's no thrill, there's some gamesmanship there, but I don't take pride in being a criminal. Well, I thought that was bullshit. So near the end of the interview, I circled back and asked the same question again, just a different way. And this time he gave a different answer. He said, fear and anticipation.
The Binge Crimes: Finding Mom's Killer
The Arsonist Next Door | 3: The Big Scoop
That's what he feels when he does this. Fear of being observed and then the anticipation of the media coverage. and it suddenly made the location make sense. He wasn't in Patriot Square despite the police presence. He was there because of it. It made it more risky, more of a thrill.
The Binge Crimes: Finding Mom's Killer
The Arsonist Next Door | 3: The Big Scoop
In like a ghost, out like a ghost, another publicity mission accomplished. It was clear what he was doing. He's addicted to the risk and the media attention. And I want the reader to know that we also knew what he was doing.
The Binge Crimes: Finding Mom's Killer
The Arsonist Next Door | 3: The Big Scoop
And in the letter, he talked about trying to call the New Times after reading Burn, Baby, Burn, and he couldn't get through.
The Binge Crimes: Finding Mom's Killer
The Arsonist Next Door | 3: The Big Scoop
No, because we were getting the story out of it.
The Binge Crimes: Finding Mom's Killer
The Arsonist Next Door | 3: The Big Scoop
I do remember sitting there on that bench after he left and just feeling the weight of the story. And I was like, you know, I was like the dog who caught the car and the car was on fire, basically.
The Binge Crimes: Finding Mom's Killer
The Arsonist Next Door | 3: The Big Scoop
The first thing to do was to make 100% sure this was the guy.
The Binge Crimes: Finding Mom's Killer
The Arsonist Next Door | 3: The Big Scoop
Gave him a couple of the details that he had given us that hadn't been made public.
The Binge Crimes: Finding Mom's Killer
The Arsonist Next Door | 3: The Big Scoop
Suddenly, our phone was blowing up from them because they were kind of freaking out and wanting to know what we were going to do. They didn't want us to run the story.
The Binge Crimes: Finding Mom's Killer
The Arsonist Next Door | 3: The Big Scoop
But it doesn't mean that a respected news outlet doesn't do that interview with somebody who is so inherently newsworthy. So you just try to provide context and trust the reader.
The Binge Crimes: Finding Mom's Killer
The Arsonist Next Door | 3: The Big Scoop
In like a ghost, out like a ghost, happy hunting. It felt a bit unreal.
The Binge Crimes: Finding Mom's Killer
The Arsonist Next Door | 3: The Big Scoop
There was a sidebar to the story I felt was important, which was explaining, here's what we've been able to confirm. Here's what we don't know, which is basically everything he's claiming about his biography and the group. I wanted the reader to know our source was likely to be an unreliable narrator.
The Binge Crimes: Finding Mom's Killer
The Arsonist Next Door | 3: The Big Scoop
And being transparent about everything about what we know and what we don't was the most responsible way to do it.
The Binge Crimes: Finding Mom's Killer
The Arsonist Next Door | 3: The Big Scoop
The night before, there was definitely a feeling of, you knew it was going to be like a bomb going off.
The Binge Crimes: Finding Mom's Killer
The Arsonist Next Door | 3: The Big Scoop
Exclusive interview with the preserve's arsonist.
The Binge Crimes: Finding Mom's Killer
The Arsonist Next Door | 3: The Big Scoop
I think there was just a bit of a sense around the newsroom that we had landed a big one. We had caught the big fish, and now people were coming for us.
The Binge Crimes: Finding Mom's Killer
The Arsonist Next Door | 3: The Big Scoop
So we couldn't be accused of holding anything back. There'd be nothing for cops to come after us for, or so I naively thought at the time.
The Binge Crimes: Finding Mom's Killer
The Arsonist Next Door | 3: The Big Scoop
What happened next was the cops wanted me to come in for a chat. It wasn't like good cop, bad cop. It was like bad cop, worse cop, even worse cop.
The Binge Crimes: Finding Mom's Killer
The Arsonist Next Door | 3: The Big Scoop
Not how James remembers it. Three hard-boiled Phoenix PD detectives just staring at you. I got the vibe that they all thought I was a piece of shit.
The Binge Crimes: Finding Mom's Killer
The Arsonist Next Door | 3: The Big Scoop
I confirmed, yes, this was true. Yes, that was true. He answers all of our questions. Then they started edging into details that I hadn't thought about, and I started to get hesitant. I'm definitely feeling the pressure of the situation.
The Binge Crimes: Finding Mom's Killer
The Arsonist Next Door | 3: The Big Scoop
Just trying to figure out in real time what questions they're asking are ones that I want to answer versus where do I say, no, I'm not helping you anymore.
The Binge Crimes: Finding Mom's Killer
The Arsonist Next Door | 3: The Big Scoop
They really wanted me to set up another interview, or at least have another conversation with him on the phone, this time being on tape, to help them catch him.
The Binge Crimes: Finding Mom's Killer
The Arsonist Next Door | 3: The Big Scoop
If a journalist sells out a source and it gets out that they did that, then it would damage media operations everywhere by making it harder for reporters to get people to trust them.
The Binge Crimes: Finding Mom's Killer
The Arsonist Next Door | 3: The Big Scoop
What if he burns down another house and this time somebody gets hurt or killed? What if, like, an undercover cop sees him in the act and he shoots him to get away?
The Binge Crimes: Finding Mom's Killer
The Arsonist Next Door | 3: The Big Scoop
All these questions you're asking about why didn't your editors, you know, help you more in this? It's good questions. It's just ones I never really thought of until now. And I'm like, yeah, well, why didn't they?
The Binge Crimes: Finding Mom's Killer
The Arsonist Next Door | 3: The Big Scoop
At the end of the interview, they said, there's a $76,000 reward, an anonymous reward, for information leading to the arsonist's capture. And they said, you can still be the journalist hero while being an actual hero and help us catch him. Nobody needs to know that you helped us.
The Binge Crimes: Finding Mom's Killer
The Arsonist Next Door | 3: The Big Scoop
— Now, at the time, I was making $30K a year and had over $20K in student loan debt at 8% interest, because that's what the 90s were like.
The Binge Crimes: Finding Mom's Killer
The Arsonist Next Door | 3: The Big Scoop
It was a bit of a rabble-rousing, controversial paper. It was like this counterweight to the city's conservative daily paper, the Arizona Republic.
The Binge Crimes: Finding Mom's Killer
The Arsonist Next Door | 3: The Big Scoop
Every morning I would wake up with this pit in my stomach.
The Binge Crimes: Finding Mom's Killer
The Arsonist Next Door | 3: The Big Scoop
I remember being at a party when I first moved there, and I was trying to make friends, and I struck up a conversation with this guy, and when he found out where I worked, he was like, oh, that's a very liberal publication, and then turned around and walked away.
The Binge Crimes: Finding Mom's Killer
The Arsonist Next Door | 3: The Big Scoop
I would cover, like, the world's loudest car radio convention, or profile a 14-year-old kid who was in a street gang, or I would do a story on the Scottsdale prostitution scene, and then do a story about this subculture where people were suspending themselves from meat hooks.
The Binge Crimes: Finding Mom's Killer
The Arsonist Next Door | 3: The Big Scoop
But this guy was public enemy number one. He was like the roadrunner zipping around the Arizona desert.
The Binge Crimes: Finding Mom's Killer
The Arsonist Next Door | 3: The Big Scoop
The arsonists had already been covered in the Daily Paper and the other publications a ton.
The Binge Crimes: Finding Mom's Killer
The Arsonist Next Door | 3: The Big Scoop
The editors had the idea of, let's do a story about how some people were rooting for this guy, like a folk hero, something different than the coverage that had been out there.
The Binge Crimes: Finding Mom's Killer
The Arsonist Next Door | 3: The Big Scoop
I remember being only mildly interested.
The Binge Crimes: Finding Mom's Killer
The Arsonist Next Door | 3: The Big Scoop
This guy was the scariest editor I ever knew.
The Binge Crimes: Finding Mom's Killer
The Arsonist Next Door | 3: The Big Scoop
When this guy looked at you with his, like, icy blue eyes, you're like, has this guy ever killed somebody and gotten away with it? Maybe.
The Binge Crimes: Finding Mom's Killer
The Arsonist Next Door | 3: The Big Scoop
The meticulously executed attacks, impassioned ideological messages, and comically baffled collection of law enforcement officials are almost enough to make you root for the arsonist.
The Binge Crimes: Finding Mom's Killer
The Arsonist Next Door | 3: The Big Scoop
No, I don't think setting fires is an okay way to protest bourbon sprawl, or really anything for that matter. If your argument requires you to blow up something to make your point, how good is your argument really?
The Binge Crimes: Finding Mom's Killer
The Arsonist Next Door | 3: The Big Scoop
We got a few angry letters, a few angry calls. That wasn't seemingly a big deal until we got the letter from the arsonist.
The Binge Crimes: Finding Mom's Killer
The Arsonist Next Door | 3: The Big Scoop
They saw an opportunity to get unprecedented insight into these fires, which was inherently newsworthy. This was, for that city at that time, a scoop as big as they came.
The Binge Crimes: Finding Mom's Killer
The Arsonist Next Door | 3: The Big Scoop
He came up with the idea of putting my office phone number on the cover of next week's issue, along with the message, to thou shall not.
The Binge Crimes: Finding Mom's Killer
The Arsonist Next Door | 3: The Big Scoop
We ran the message in this little box at the top corner of the cover.
The Binge Crimes: Finding Mom's Killer
The Arsonist Next Door | 3: The Big Scoop
I would explain it by saying things like, oh, it's just a typo, even though that doesn't make any sense. And then I got the call. He said, I got your message. James sits bolt upright in his chair. That was when I started to realize this is turning into a big deal. It was very weird. He seemed super casual, like just kind of in a good mood and chatty, but also arrogant and high in his own supply.
The Binge Crimes: Finding Mom's Killer
The Arsonist Next Door | 3: The Big Scoop
He sounded like a youngish to middle, lower middle age business professional. He sounded like a guy on his lunch hour at an office just chatting about the weather.
The Binge Crimes: Finding Mom's Killer
The Arsonist Next Door | 3: The Big Scoop
He wanted to set the record straight. And he also said, and this will be important later, that a North Phoenix Preserve unit was forming in his group.
The Binge Crimes: Finding Mom's Killer
The Arsonist Next Door | 3: The Big Scoop
Here are the conditions. Be at Patriot Square Park, downtown Phoenix, 11 a.m. in two days. No tape recorders, no photographers. Come alone, sit anywhere, and read a copy of the Burn Baby Burns story. and then we'll see what happens.
The Binge Crimes: Finding Mom's Killer
The Arsonist Next Door | 3: The Big Scoop
There are cops all over. There are media news trucks parked along the street.
The Binge Crimes: Finding Mom's Killer
The Arsonist Next Door | 3: The Big Scoop
Hermey thought that if he did show up, that the cops would swoop in and arrest us both. James is sitting on a park bench.
The Binge Crimes: Finding Mom's Killer
The Arsonist Next Door | 3: The Big Scoop
Burn, baby, burn. It's not like I showed up packing a weapon or anything crazy. I just went there, opened the copy of the paper like he asked, and waited. Are you scared? I was more excited than nervous. I was bummed I wouldn't have a tape recorder because I'd have to be writing in longhand and scribbling all the answers. But James knows exactly what he wants to find out.
The Binge Crimes: Finding Mom's Killer
The Arsonist Next Door | 3: The Big Scoop
If you're picturing something like from a movie where everyone kind of gathers in an office and they shut the door and hunker over this letter like it's from the Zodiac Killer, that's pretty much what it was like. They're crowded around a table, reading a letter. At the top of the letter was, Thou shall not desecrate God's creation.
The Binge Crimes: Finding Mom's Killer
The Arsonist Next Door | 3: The Big Scoop
How he was getting away with this and why he was doing this.
The Binge Crimes: Finding Mom's Killer
The Arsonist Next Door | 3: The Big Scoop
No, no. I mean, now that you're mentioning it, they probably should have instead of shoving their youngest reporter out into the middle of a park to meet with an arsonist.
The Binge Crimes: Finding Mom's Killer
The Arsonist Next Door | 3: The Big Scoop
There was definitely that heightened feeling and I was also skeptical that he'd actually show up. All of a sudden, this guy comes up and sits next to me. He's got these like big Bono sunglasses on, hat on, track suit on. It's not exactly the outfit you'd expect from an eco-warrior. You picture somebody who's like young and scruffy and looks like they're living out of a van.
The Binge Crimes: Finding Mom's Killer
The Arsonist Next Door | 3: The Big Scoop
This guy is tall, middle-aged, and athletic. He was very energetic, almost wired. And he asked whether I had seen the paper that morning.
The Binge Crimes: Finding Mom's Killer
The Arsonist Next Door | 3: The Big Scoop
Then I remembered that on the phone call, he had teased that a North Phoenix unit of his movement was forming.
The Binge Crimes: Finding Mom's Killer
The Arsonist Next Door | 3: The Big Scoop
The guy said, you know, call rural Metro and ask about the two notes that were left behind that hadn't been reported yet.
The Binge Crimes: Finding Mom's Killer
The Arsonist Next Door | 3: The Big Scoop
And he also said the timing of the fire was not coincidental.
The Binge Crimes: Finding Mom's Killer
The Arsonist Next Door | 3: The Big Scoop
He said, you know, we thought that setting that fire would be a good-faith effort to establish our credibility.