Hamed Aleaziz
Appearances
The Daily
ICE on Campus
But what's happening now is targeting of people who were legally in the country. They were here with student visas, in some cases with green cards. The Trump administration is looking to target individuals that they believe are spreading messages that they disagree with and they believe that are counter to the foreign policy interests of the United States.
The Daily
ICE on Campus
Totally. We've seen ICE target international students across the country, including at Georgetown, of course, with the case at Tufts, with the Turkish international students, and at Cornell as well. And it's becoming pretty clear that this is part of the Trump administration's new phase of their immigration crackdown.
The Daily
ICE on Campus
If you apply for a visa to enter the United States and be a student... Marco Rubio, Trump's Secretary of State, has spoken very publicly about this new phase.
The Daily
ICE on Campus
Well... People here on student visas are in regular contact with the U.S. government. They are constantly updating their information with the U.S. government to remain in status. This is something that they do willingly and proactively because they want to pursue their education in the United States. There is a whole wealth of information about where these people are.
The Daily
ICE on Campus
You can just look at where they're studying, right? I mean, they are much easier to find than compared to undocumented immigrants who oftentimes will remain under the radar and try to avoid interacting with the government for fear of of being picked up by ICE and arrested. These are individuals who have shared a lot of information with the U.S. government.
The Daily
ICE on Campus
And I think in many ways it confirms a lot of fears that people have that when you share so much information with the government, you inevitably become easier to find and detain.
The Daily
ICE on Campus
This is a new test for them. This is not something that they've seen in the past where you have ICE officers on campuses. It's important to note here that previous to the Trump administration, there were actually guidelines in place for ICE to not enforce on campuses. So this is a new front in that respect. And at the same time, universities are under immense pressure from the Trump administration
The Daily
ICE on Campus
targeting their funding, targeting their practices. Colombia, in particular, has been under attack. So when it comes to these cases, they're in many ways taking a hands-off approach.
The Daily
ICE on Campus
So two things. One, the State Department has wide powers to revoke people's student visas, and that's going to be a particularly difficult case for those individuals who are here simply on student visas trying to remain in the United States. It's going to be an uphill battle in immigration court. But when it comes to the provision being used against the green card holders—
The Daily
ICE on Campus
And this all actually starts with a talk by President Trump during his campaign. During that time, he was watching these protests at Columbia.
The Daily
ICE on Campus
This idea that the Secretary of State can deem someone deportable, remove them from the United States because they undermine foreign policy interests, that's been tested before in immigration courts. And actually, the Board of Immigration Appeals said, at the time in the 90s, upheld the U.S. government's efforts to deport a high-ranking Mexican official to Mexico.
The Daily
ICE on Campus
But that was a very different case. This is a very different situation, so it's unclear.
The Daily
ICE on Campus
Yeah, there have been several times in American history where the government has been much tougher on immigration, but you don't have to look back that far. You can point to this time after 9-11, this era where DHS was born in the wake of that terrorist attack. We saw at that time
The Daily
ICE on Campus
targeting of Muslim immigrants who were here on student visas, who were swept up in this increased immigration enforcement because there was a real fear around Muslim immigrants who were here on visas because, of course, the 9-11 attackers had arrived as well on visas. And I think it also fits into this context of the government talking about these people as potential threats, right?
The Daily
ICE on Campus
I mean, we see that the White House has said that Khalil is aligned with Hamas, a terrorist group, and we've seen them call Srinivasan a terrorist sympathizer. we're seeing almost the same type of language being used to describe the immigrants who are being picked up right now as we saw during that time in the post-9-11 era.
The Daily
ICE on Campus
who said that if there were any international students involved, their visas should be revoked and they should be removed from the United States.
The Daily
ICE on Campus
Yeah, already people here on legal status who have green cards are certainly terrified. There's a lot of uncertainty amongst green card holders about what these cases mean for themselves. We're not even 100 days in and we're already seeing green card holders picked up and these types of incredibly powerful images of students arrested on their campuses.
The Daily
ICE on Campus
And as far as what comes next, I think it's fair to say that anything is possible, right? We saw in the first administration there was an effort to expand denaturalization of U.S. citizens. I think we can expect more of those types of efforts and others that we're not aware of at this moment.
The Daily
ICE on Campus
And when he comes into office, quickly in those first few days where there's a dizzying number of executive orders, he deputizes the Department of Justice and the Department of Homeland Security to create a task force combating anti-Semitism and targeting college campuses as places of focus. And we weren't clear how it was all going to play out.
The Daily
ICE on Campus
And in recent weeks, we've seen the Trump administration move start to use those ideas to target students on college campuses. And I've been covering three of those cases involving students at Columbia that, taken together, I think paint a clearer picture of what the Trump administration is up to.
The Daily
ICE on Campus
Definitely, his case was a massive news story when it first happened in early March. And people were trying to figure out why he was picked up. We learned from sources that actually Secretary of State Rubio had issued a memo designating two people as deportable because of their protest activity. And one of those people was Mahmoud Khalil. a very visible protester on Columbia's campus.
The Daily
ICE on Campus
His wife actually videotaped the arrest. And in the video, you can see the plainclothes officers telling Mr. Khalil that he's going to be arrested, that they're going to be taking him away.
The Daily
ICE on Campus
He was picked up and sent to Louisiana, where he was detained in an ICE detention facility. And that's really striking because Khalil is not here on a visa. He actually has permanent residency and a green card.
The Daily
ICE on Campus
Green card holders can be detained. After you receive your green card, you have to wait a certain number of years to receive your U.S. citizenship. But during that time, you need to remain in good standing in the United States. And one of the things that oftentimes green card holders will be picked up by ICE for is committing certain crimes, you know, more serious crimes.
The Daily
ICE on Campus
In this case, obviously, there is no crime that's been pointed to by the U.S. government. Instead, it's this provision cited by Secretary of State Rubio.
The Daily
ICE on Campus
They arrested him under this... a provision in the immigration law that allows a Secretary of State to deem someone deportable if their continued presence in the United States undermines U.S. foreign policy. And in the case of Mr. Khalil, they say that his involvement in protests at Columbia University was part of this anti-Semitic activity, and this undermines U.S.
The Daily
ICE on Campus
It's complicated. The Supreme Court has said that non-citizens do have the right to freedom of speech under the First Amendment, but the government has an immense amount of power to remove immigrants from the United States. And ultimately, anything outside of being a U.S. citizen is a privilege that can be revoked by the federal government.
The Daily
ICE on Campus
And in this case, the Trump administration is trying to say that actions that would otherwise be protected in the First Amendment, like protest activity on a college campus, could merit deportation.
The Daily
ICE on Campus
Yeah, it's clear that they're targeting people for this type of speech, including Mr. Khalil, using every resource possible to pick him up and arrest him. Recently, they added allegations in his immigration case to try to deport him, saying that he had not disclosed past work.
The Daily
ICE on Campus
Definitely. It feels like the beginning of this targeting of international students across the United States. And we quickly learned that there was another case of an international student at Columbia, but this was a student who was not someone who was as prominent as Mr. Khalil.
The Daily
ICE on Campus
Her name is Ranjani Srinivasan, and she's a PhD student here on a student visa from India. And my colleague, Luis Ferre, gets on the phone with her and starts talking to her about her story and what she experienced. You know, she had received an email in early March from the State Department saying that her visa was revoked. And she's trying to figure out
The Daily
ICE on Campus
what's going on with her status in the United States. It's important to note that for international students here, that's a very serious issue. And so there's a lot of stress involved with that. Around that time, ICE comes to her door. Does Ranjani live here? Her roommate actually is at the door and starts a recording.
The Daily
ICE on Campus
She doesn't, but eventually she realizes that she's likely being targeted because she was swept up during the increase in protests on Columbia's campus. She had been arrested amongst another group of protesters in the area, but she says she was arrested during a time when she was trying to get home. She was working her way back to her house, and she was picked up by police at the time.
The Daily
ICE on Campus
Now, those charges were eventually dropped, so she didn't really make much of a deal of it at the time. And she didn't disclose it on her visa paperwork. But ultimately, the U.S. government cites that as the reason for her visa being revoked.
The Daily
ICE on Campus
She says that this was really merely her trying to get home and getting through this crowd, and the police come and arrest her. She described herself as a lazy protester. She did post stuff online in support of pro-Palestine efforts, but that was the extent of it.
The Daily
ICE on Campus
And she sees what's happened to Mr. Khalil and doesn't want to be swept up by ICE and targeted for detention in an ICE detention center. And she decides to leave the country, to go to Canada and to avoid all of that. She self-deports.
The Daily
ICE on Campus
Definitely. Self-deportation is a major goal of the Trump administration. There is no feasible way for them to deport millions of people without major numbers of immigrants self-deporting, leaving the country, boosting to those numbers that President Trump has said he will hit.
The Daily
ICE on Campus
This is something that is constantly talked about with the Trump administration, which is leave before we come and find you. And in this case, it seemed to have worked. She saw what happened to Mr. Khalil and did not want to end up like him, being sent to an ICE detention center.
The Daily
ICE on Campus
This case shows us that the government is claiming these broad deportation powers and attempting to use those powers to deport international students here to study in the United States. Then we heard about another case, a third case involving another university student that really surprised people who've been following immigration and immigration enforcement for years.
The Daily
ICE on Campus
Definitely. This third case, it's a 21-year-old student, Yoon So Chung, who grew up in America, essentially. She was born in Korea, but she came to the United States at age seven. And she lived her life in America. Her whole community is here. Her family's here. Her parents are here. She went through high school in America where she became a valedictorian.
The Daily
ICE on Campus
Yeah, definitely. We saw at the beginning of the Trump administration a real focus on cracking down and arresting undocumented immigrants in the country, particularly those with criminal histories. And at the same time, making a note that if you're undocumented in this country, we're going to come find you, we're going to come get you, and we're going to remove you from America.
The Daily
ICE on Campus
Essentially, her home is the United States, and that is something that her lawyers really emphasized in their lawsuit against the U.S. government.
The Daily
ICE on Campus
Exactly. I think it's significant for emotional reasons because she has such deep ties to this country. She went to high school in the United States. She has a network in the United States. But I think more importantly... it undercuts the Trump administration's argument with these arrests.
The Daily
ICE on Campus
The Trump administration has said that these people who are coming to study in the United States are guests in our country. And while they're here, it's not appropriate for them to cause a ruckus on our campuses and cause conflict. But in this case, Chung is not, for all intents and purposes, a temporary guest who just came to the United States. She's been here since she was seven years old.
The Daily
ICE on Campus
Yeah, so earlier this month in March, she attended a sit-in on Columbia University's campus, and she was arrested by police alongside other students. protesters. And soon after that, ICE shows up to her parents' house. Around the same time that the ICE officer showed up to Chung's house, she received a text message from an unknown number and it said, quote, this is Audrey from the police.
The Daily
ICE on Campus
My job is to reach out to you and see if you have any questions about your recent arrests and the process going forward. A federal prosecutor speaks with her attorney saying that the State Department has revoked her status and that the government is trying to find her and detain her. They're really using all the resources that the government has to try to arrest her.
The Daily
ICE on Campus
I think that's a really important point to make because, look, ICE arrests are really difficult. They have to expend a lot of resources and research and surveillance to know when people are going to be around to show up, to arrest them, and take them away. They're using all these various levers of government power to try to locate her.
The Daily
ICE on Campus
And that's a lot of resources for a government that's incredibly strained for resources in trying to reach these high numbers of deportations. Every resource matters, and they're using it on a college student who's been in the country since she was seven years old.
The Daily
ICE on Campus
We don't know. Her lawyers have not told us where she is, but they say that she is in the United States.
The Daily
Exporting America’s Immigration Problem
In recent years, the Biden administration got Mexico to take back migrants from mostly Spanish-speaking countries such as Venezuela, Cuba, and Nicaragua, and other Central American countries. In this instance, Panama is taking migrants from across the globe, mostly from countries in the Eastern Hemisphere, including Iran. Pakistan, India, and Afghanistan.
The Daily
Exporting America’s Immigration Problem
A lot of these migrants do not speak Spanish, and the scope of countries involved is unlike anything we've seen before. And one thing to keep in mind here is that the negotiations involved and the way this came about is much different as well.
The Daily
Exporting America’s Immigration Problem
With Mexico there was a real formal deal in place where the Biden administration officials repeatedly said that Mexico, in order to take back migrants from other countries, also wanted the Biden administration to allow these migrants to have a chance to enter the country through different legal pathways.
The Daily
Exporting America’s Immigration Problem
They were able to sign up to show up to a port of entry later on and enter the United States that way. But in this case, we don't really understand what the deal was between Panama and the United States.
The Daily
Exporting America’s Immigration Problem
Well, obviously, President Trump has been talking repeatedly about taking the Panama Canal and The government of Panama is quite aware of what has happened to other countries who've run into the hornet's nest, that is the Trump administration and immigration enforcement.
The Daily
Exporting America’s Immigration Problem
We saw with Colombia, President Trump threatening visa sanctions and all kinds of consequences for Colombia pushing back on a government military deportation flight that was set to land in their country. Elsewhere, we see tariffs threatened on Mexico and Canada because the Trump administration has said they are not doing enough on migration.
The Daily
Exporting America’s Immigration Problem
And it serves as a real deterrent in many ways that is forcing countries like Panama to get on board and play ball and be willing to, at a moment's notice, take multiple flights of migrants from across the world.
The Daily
Exporting America’s Immigration Problem
Exactly. The precedent has been set. And recently, Secretary of State Rubio went to Panama to discuss migration. And afterward, these flights of migrants from across the globe landed in Panama. And last week, we saw Costa Rica come out publicly and say that they were going to take migrants from the Eastern Hemisphere as well.
The Daily
Exporting America’s Immigration Problem
And more than 100 of those migrants, mostly families, arrived in Costa Rica last week.
The Daily
Exporting America’s Immigration Problem
It's a major change for these people. In the United States, when migrants are in detention, they have the ability to at least ostensibly find a lawyer, connect with immigrant advocates, try to find some form of a process, potentially an immigration court where they can seek asylum. The fact that the migrants are in Panama, they are not under U.S. law anymore.
The Daily
Exporting America’s Immigration Problem
They are not given the same scope of possibilities that are offered in the United States. Instead, they are transported to a totally different process. They don't know whether or not they will have access to an attorney, what the process to get asylum in Panama would look like.
The Daily
Exporting America’s Immigration Problem
There's a lot of confusion involved, and it's much different than it would have been had they remained in the United States.
The Daily
Exporting America’s Immigration Problem
I'm not sure. The United States and the Trump administration has said that these were formal removals, and advocates are certainly concerned about what's happened here, really questioning the process that was involved here and are looking into it, but whether or not it's legal potentially could play out in federal courts in the future.
The Daily
Exporting America’s Immigration Problem
Definitely. I spoke recently with President Trump's borders are Tom Holman, who told me that they are having active conversations with countries about safe third country deals, allowing the Trump administration to send migrants to countries across the world. And it wouldn't surprise me if some of these conversations were with countries in Europe and and elsewhere in the Western Hemisphere.
The Daily
Exporting America’s Immigration Problem
But the success of this type of effort will not just depend on expanding the number of countries willing to take in migrants, but expanding the nationalities that are involved in this deportation effort.
The Daily
Exporting America’s Immigration Problem
Well, it would be not just Iranians or migrants from Pakistan. It would be other migrants who suddenly show up at the border in higher numbers. And any potential problem that they have with deporting those migrants, they could find another country to take them in.
The Daily
Exporting America’s Immigration Problem
Definitely. This is unprecedented and unlike anything that I've seen before. where migrants from Iran, India, Pakistan, Uzbekistan are dumped in Panama. And I think it serves as a clear deterrent to migrants from across the globe.
The Daily
Exporting America’s Immigration Problem
But what you have to remember is that if the United States and the Trump administration is able to build an efficient deportation system where people are picked up and removed from the country quickly, no matter what conditions they're in, and he doesn't face political backlash, then that'll be a massive win for him and all of his supporters who've wanted him to begin this mass deportation process.
The Daily
Exporting America’s Immigration Problem
Definitely. The Trump administration has been quite vocal about wanting to do a mass deportation campaign, historic deportations never seen before, millions of people. And thus far, the pace of removals is not something that is extremely high or is reaching the levels that President Trump had promised.
The Daily
Exporting America’s Immigration Problem
And we've seen already some Trump administration officials, including his borders are Tom Homan, say that they need a higher pace of arrests, higher pace of enforcement and deportations. So we can see that there's already some frustration at the pace.
The Daily
Exporting America’s Immigration Problem
Yeah, the process of deportation is actually quite complicated. And what ICE and the Trump administration is running into is that it's one thing to arrest hundreds of people in an operation. It's another thing to take those people who are arrested and actually deport them to their home country. That process can take a long time. So making an arrest does not equal an immediate deportation.
The Daily
Exporting America’s Immigration Problem
And some of the things that are in the way right now are the fact that ICE has a limited number of detention beds across the United States. ICE has been holding around 40,000 people for the past couple weeks. And you need to hold people in ICE detention in order to deport them. And on top of that, some countries are... very difficult, if not nearly impossible, to deport to.
The Daily
Exporting America’s Immigration Problem
There are countries that the United States does not have formal diplomatic relations with, such as Afghanistan or Iran, where ICE officials cannot send chartered ICE planes to those countries. Then there are others like India and China who make the deportation process quite complicated.
The Daily
Exporting America’s Immigration Problem
And it seems like with this Panama flight, they're turning more aggressively to getting other countries to take multiple flights of migrants from across the world.