Hamed Aleaziz
Appearances
The Daily
Exporting America’s Immigration Problem
In recent years, the Biden administration got Mexico to take back migrants from mostly Spanish-speaking countries such as Venezuela, Cuba, and Nicaragua, and other Central American countries. In this instance, Panama is taking migrants from across the globe, mostly from countries in the Eastern Hemisphere, including Iran. Pakistan, India, and Afghanistan.
The Daily
Exporting America’s Immigration Problem
A lot of these migrants do not speak Spanish, and the scope of countries involved is unlike anything we've seen before. And one thing to keep in mind here is that the negotiations involved and the way this came about is much different as well.
The Daily
Exporting America’s Immigration Problem
With Mexico there was a real formal deal in place where the Biden administration officials repeatedly said that Mexico, in order to take back migrants from other countries, also wanted the Biden administration to allow these migrants to have a chance to enter the country through different legal pathways.
The Daily
Exporting America’s Immigration Problem
They were able to sign up to show up to a port of entry later on and enter the United States that way. But in this case, we don't really understand what the deal was between Panama and the United States.
The Daily
Exporting America’s Immigration Problem
Well, obviously, President Trump has been talking repeatedly about taking the Panama Canal and The government of Panama is quite aware of what has happened to other countries who've run into the hornet's nest, that is the Trump administration and immigration enforcement.
The Daily
Exporting America’s Immigration Problem
We saw with Colombia, President Trump threatening visa sanctions and all kinds of consequences for Colombia pushing back on a government military deportation flight that was set to land in their country. Elsewhere, we see tariffs threatened on Mexico and Canada because the Trump administration has said they are not doing enough on migration.
The Daily
Exporting America’s Immigration Problem
And it serves as a real deterrent in many ways that is forcing countries like Panama to get on board and play ball and be willing to, at a moment's notice, take multiple flights of migrants from across the world.
The Daily
Exporting America’s Immigration Problem
Exactly. The precedent has been set. And recently, Secretary of State Rubio went to Panama to discuss migration. And afterward, these flights of migrants from across the globe landed in Panama. And last week, we saw Costa Rica come out publicly and say that they were going to take migrants from the Eastern Hemisphere as well.
The Daily
Exporting America’s Immigration Problem
And more than 100 of those migrants, mostly families, arrived in Costa Rica last week.
The Daily
Exporting America’s Immigration Problem
It's a major change for these people. In the United States, when migrants are in detention, they have the ability to at least ostensibly find a lawyer, connect with immigrant advocates, try to find some form of a process, potentially an immigration court where they can seek asylum. The fact that the migrants are in Panama, they are not under U.S. law anymore.
The Daily
Exporting America’s Immigration Problem
They are not given the same scope of possibilities that are offered in the United States. Instead, they are transported to a totally different process. They don't know whether or not they will have access to an attorney, what the process to get asylum in Panama would look like.
The Daily
Exporting America’s Immigration Problem
There's a lot of confusion involved, and it's much different than it would have been had they remained in the United States.
The Daily
Exporting America’s Immigration Problem
I'm not sure. The United States and the Trump administration has said that these were formal removals, and advocates are certainly concerned about what's happened here, really questioning the process that was involved here and are looking into it, but whether or not it's legal potentially could play out in federal courts in the future.
The Daily
Exporting America’s Immigration Problem
Definitely. I spoke recently with President Trump's borders are Tom Holman, who told me that they are having active conversations with countries about safe third country deals, allowing the Trump administration to send migrants to countries across the world. And it wouldn't surprise me if some of these conversations were with countries in Europe and and elsewhere in the Western Hemisphere.
The Daily
Exporting America’s Immigration Problem
But the success of this type of effort will not just depend on expanding the number of countries willing to take in migrants, but expanding the nationalities that are involved in this deportation effort.
The Daily
Exporting America’s Immigration Problem
Well, it would be not just Iranians or migrants from Pakistan. It would be other migrants who suddenly show up at the border in higher numbers. And any potential problem that they have with deporting those migrants, they could find another country to take them in.
The Daily
Exporting America’s Immigration Problem
Definitely. This is unprecedented and unlike anything that I've seen before. where migrants from Iran, India, Pakistan, Uzbekistan are dumped in Panama. And I think it serves as a clear deterrent to migrants from across the globe.
The Daily
Exporting America’s Immigration Problem
But what you have to remember is that if the United States and the Trump administration is able to build an efficient deportation system where people are picked up and removed from the country quickly, no matter what conditions they're in, and he doesn't face political backlash, then that'll be a massive win for him and all of his supporters who've wanted him to begin this mass deportation process.
The Daily
Exporting America’s Immigration Problem
Definitely. The Trump administration has been quite vocal about wanting to do a mass deportation campaign, historic deportations never seen before, millions of people. And thus far, the pace of removals is not something that is extremely high or is reaching the levels that President Trump had promised.
The Daily
Exporting America’s Immigration Problem
And we've seen already some Trump administration officials, including his borders are Tom Homan, say that they need a higher pace of arrests, higher pace of enforcement and deportations. So we can see that there's already some frustration at the pace.
The Daily
Exporting America’s Immigration Problem
Yeah, the process of deportation is actually quite complicated. And what ICE and the Trump administration is running into is that it's one thing to arrest hundreds of people in an operation. It's another thing to take those people who are arrested and actually deport them to their home country. That process can take a long time. So making an arrest does not equal an immediate deportation.
The Daily
Exporting America’s Immigration Problem
And some of the things that are in the way right now are the fact that ICE has a limited number of detention beds across the United States. ICE has been holding around 40,000 people for the past couple weeks. And you need to hold people in ICE detention in order to deport them. And on top of that, some countries are... very difficult, if not nearly impossible, to deport to.
The Daily
Exporting America’s Immigration Problem
There are countries that the United States does not have formal diplomatic relations with, such as Afghanistan or Iran, where ICE officials cannot send chartered ICE planes to those countries. Then there are others like India and China who make the deportation process quite complicated.
The Daily
Exporting America’s Immigration Problem
And it seems like with this Panama flight, they're turning more aggressively to getting other countries to take multiple flights of migrants from across the world.