Fernanda Echavarri
Appearances
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
The Making of a Beauty Queen | 8
So I'm wondering, like looking back at when you made this podcast the first time in Brazil, in Portuguese, at what point did you say, I have to tell the story of Cat Torres? Because as we learned in the last episode, you, when you interviewed Leticia Tupinamba, you knew who Cat Torres was because of her meme page, you know, back before you ever thought you would do a story about her.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
The Making of a Beauty Queen | 8
Then you saw her life coach profile. But once the story becomes dark, at what point as a journalist do you say, okay, I'm going to investigate this and I'm going to make a podcast about it?
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
The Making of a Beauty Queen | 8
Yeah, you're looking at this woman and you're like, her? Really?
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
The Making of a Beauty Queen | 8
And the original version was such a huge hit in Brazil. I mean, congratulations for stuff. Why do you think this was such a huge story with a Brazilian audience? What about Kat's story resonated so much with Brazilians?
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
The Making of a Beauty Queen | 8
You know, we've talked so much about how much we live online and how much Brazilians live online. And in episode one, when we in the audience sort of gets to know you, you tell us how you became a social media influencer as your journalism career took off and your podcast and your books brought you Instagram followers. All of this is bringing you sponsorships and ad opportunities. Make that money.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
The Making of a Beauty Queen | 8
Yep. So I'm curious, what was it like to tell the story of the dark side of social media when you yourself are profiting from social media? Because you're not on the dark side. Let's also make that very clear. There's a dark side of social media.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
The Making of a Beauty Queen | 8
But you can't put yourself in the same category. Like there's got to be categories.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
The Making of a Beauty Queen | 8
I want to switch back to Kat for a moment here. Well, about you and Kat, because throughout the time that we worked on this English version of the podcast, We came really close to doing an interview with Kat in prison.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
The Making of a Beauty Queen | 8
You were in Brazil, and there was a time where for maybe five or six weeks, every week that we met, it was like, we might do the interview this Friday, or we might hear about the interview this Friday. It might happen this Friday. It might happen this Friday. And there was a lot of back and forth.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
The Making of a Beauty Queen | 8
Yeah, let's share a little bit of what was going on with the interview with Kat and who you were in contact with. Sure.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
The Making of a Beauty Queen | 8
Okay, Chico, so you have something to show me, right? I'm going to open up my phone. Since we're not in the same place, let me open up my phone.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
The Making of a Beauty Queen | 8
And, and we really tried, you know, for folks to hear from Kat directly. Um, but it didn't happen. Um, I just have two more questions for you. And one is, and I want to make it known for you as audience that we are everybody in the presence of Brazilian podcast royalty. Chico Felitti is a master behind the microphone in Portuguese.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
The Making of a Beauty Queen | 8
And, you know, as somebody who did not myself, I did not grow up speaking English. I learned English when I was 15 years old and I'm almost 40. And I feel like I am one person in English and one person in Spanish. I feel like my tone of voice is different. I am more high pitch in English. I am more like low pitch in Spanish. I don't know. I feel this way. And I'm sure a lot of people who are
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
The Making of a Beauty Queen | 8
bilingual can relate and I'm wondering if you feel that way like now that you've recorded this whole podcast in English and you're doing interviews in English now absolutely obviously you you know you've spent a lot of time in the U.S. you're bilingual but like what was that experience like for you
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
The Making of a Beauty Queen | 8
Also, you like how I didn't even focus on the fact that you said I sound dumb in English. I'm like, well, let's forget that. You don't know. I'm like, you sound straight.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
The Making of a Beauty Queen | 8
I'm Mexican. I'm in the Latin American WhatsApp crew, so I get you. Okay, so let me open it up.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
The Making of a Beauty Queen | 8
So my last question for you is, and it's actually something that I haven't asked you this whole time that we've been working together making the series.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
The Making of a Beauty Queen | 8
No, no, no, don't leave. Don't leave. Don't leave. Now that we're totally done with everything, right? Like the series has wrapped and you have a full understanding both of Kat's backstory, but also the level of damage that she caused. I'm curious how you see her. How do you see Kat Torres?
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
The Making of a Beauty Queen | 8
A flawed, fascinating character, I would say.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
The Making of a Beauty Queen | 8
Well, thank you, Chico, for letting me sort of flip the microphone and put it on you this time.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
The Making of a Beauty Queen | 8
There's two photos. One of them is a group shot. They're all wearing long white dresses. And the other one is the individual photo where Kat is wearing sort of like a dark green dress with some lace. And in both of those photos, honestly, not a hair out of place. Her hair is tucked on the side a little bit on one side. So it's blonde, soft waves to the side with maybe red lip color situation.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
The Making of a Beauty Queen | 8
She doesn't look like she's in prison. I mean, none of these women look like they're in prison.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
The Making of a Beauty Queen | 8
Okay, so how does someone in prison end up looking like this? How does this work?
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
The Making of a Beauty Queen | 8
I mean, I mean, she was a supermodel. So it's kind of unfair to throw a supermodel into a jail of quote unquote normal women. So I want to like raise a flag like, excuse me, judge, unfairness here.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
The Making of a Beauty Queen | 8
But I have to say, and you know, while we were reporting this series, there was a documentary that came out from the BBC and, you know, she didn't look great. And I know at one point you said that you heard from somebody that was close to her while we were reporting on this, that she didn't, she wasn't eating. She didn't look well. She doesn't look unwell in this photo.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
The Making of a Beauty Queen | 8
Are you sure you want to spend even more time with me? You haven't gotten sick of me yet?
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
The Making of a Beauty Queen | 8
I'm looking at another picture now where it's just Kat with what looks like, I don't know, some sort of prison official. She's holding like a price?
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
The Making of a Beauty Queen | 8
What could possibly be in that box? What did she win? I can't tell by zooming in. What did she win?
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
The Making of a Beauty Queen | 8
But I'm sure in prison, those are even better things to have, like very coveted items.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
The Making of a Beauty Queen | 8
Getting into like more serious topic, though, what do you think is actually going through her mind, Kat's mind? Because we know that she went through some really dark moments while in prison. And then she has this moment of I'm imagining, you know, it wasn't just sprung on them that they were having a beauty pageant. I'm sure that she was looking forward to it. Maybe she wasn't. I don't know.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
The Making of a Beauty Queen | 8
What do you think is going through her mind during all of this during the show and when she wins?
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
The Making of a Beauty Queen | 8
I don't even know what to do with that because I want to say like, you know, my initial reaction is like, I'm glad that she's not in a dark place. I'm glad that she's, you know, wakes up in the morning and find some sort of meaning with her existence. But then it's also kind of like, oh, but is the only meaning in your life, the attention that you get from others because of your beauty.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
The Making of a Beauty Queen | 8
You got to ask a lot of questions reporting on this story. And now I want to ask you some questions because for this episode, there were a few things that we didn't get to talk about in the making of the series that we wanted to bring up, especially something that happened after we wrapped.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
The Making of a Beauty Queen | 8
You know, in the episode where we get more into Kat's backstory, you know, there was so much to get into that we didn't dive too deep into the fact that she actually competed in a beauty contest in Brazil at a national level, right? So she did start with beauty contests. Can you get into that a little more?
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
The Making of a Beauty Queen | 8
You know, I only understand a little bit of Portuguese. So what is he saying there on that tape?
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
The Making of a Beauty Queen | 8
And was she at least good? Because it's one thing to, you know, model for photographs. It's another to do the whole beauty pageant. Like, you got to walk the walk and have this, like, Miss Congeniality personality and know how to do the whole thing, you know?
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
The Making of a Beauty Queen | 8
Ok, so she's in the contest. She's on TV. I can see her in this video. She's walking to the front of the stage. She's got, you know, one hand on her waist. She's smiling at the judges. She totally looks like she's done this before, by the way.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
The Making of a Beauty Queen | 8
And at this point, I mean, this is being broadcast on live national TV, right? Which means that Kat is being seen all over Brazilian households that night, right?
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
The Making of a Beauty Queen | 8
Yes, and we're also going to take a look behind the scenes and get to know you a little bit more, Chico, and how reporting on this story may or may not have changed you.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
The Making of a Beauty Queen | 8
Even the beauty, the beauty queens, they're not taught to like just smile and wave and they like actually break down and they're like... One thing is being trained to do something.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
The Making of a Beauty Queen | 8
And what did her trainer say? Was he surprised that she didn't make it farther?
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
The Making of a Beauty Queen | 8
Until prison, of course. Yeah. What do you think it was about beauty pageants for her? I guess it's sort of easy to think that so much of it is about validation for her, right? But maybe it's about a different form of validation.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
The Making of a Beauty Queen | 8
Maybe the beauty pageant is a very sort of physical representation of the grading of your looks, the physical comparison to your peers to stand next to someone and be like, I am physically better than you. I don't know. What do you think?
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
The Making of a Beauty Queen | 8
Wow, interesting. I didn't know that about Brazil.