Ernst Roets
Appearances
The Charlie Kirk Show
"Kill the Boer:" What's Really Happening in South Africa
Well, Charlie, great to meet you, too. And it's great to be on the show. And thank you very much for talking about this and and for having me on the show. Good to speak to you here from Pretoria, South Africa.
The Charlie Kirk Show
"Kill the Boer:" What's Really Happening in South Africa
So the book is entitled Kill the Boer. It was published in 2018. And the title was chosen because that is also the title of a very famous political chant in South Africa that I'm sure you've seen and your viewers have seen that is becoming increasingly popular.
The Charlie Kirk Show
"Kill the Boer:" What's Really Happening in South Africa
a chant it's not a song it's a chant of which the lyrics are kill the work kill the farmer shoot to kill kill a man and the word blur of course refers to the afrikaner people so it's an ethnic or cultural community that is targeted and the book is well it took me three years to to write it's very extensively researched and the the main argument if i can summarize is that farm attacks
The Charlie Kirk Show
"Kill the Boer:" What's Really Happening in South Africa
There are many problems, crime phenomena in South Africa, but the farm killings are very unique for a variety of reasons. The one is the extreme disproportionate rate at which farmers are being attacked and killed in South Africa. The second is the extreme levels of brutality, the worst tortures imaginable happening during these farm attacks. And I can tell you about that if you want.
The Charlie Kirk Show
"Kill the Boer:" What's Really Happening in South Africa
The third is the unique role that farmers have to play in South Africa in terms of providing food for the nation, but also in terms of being employers and employing people and so forth. And then the fourth reason is just the fact that a crime phenomenon such as this deserves a unique counter strategy because the farmers are far away from police stations and so forth.
The Charlie Kirk Show
"Kill the Boer:" What's Really Happening in South Africa
But on top of this, what we have is not just a disproportionate and an extremely brutal crime phenomenon.
The Charlie Kirk Show
"Kill the Boer:" What's Really Happening in South Africa
We have a crime phenomenon here that is actively encouraged and romanticized by some of the most senior and influential politicians in South Africa, chanting kill the Boer from public platforms, then being protected by the Constitutional Court, which is, you could say, the Supreme Court in South Africa, and then being protected by the president who publicly denies that this problem is happening.
The Charlie Kirk Show
"Kill the Boer:" What's Really Happening in South Africa
And then on top of that, we have now this threat to property rights with the ruling party, the ANC, openly saying that they want to take or confiscate property that belongs to white people and redistribute it. And then they call this EWC, expropriation without compensation.
The Charlie Kirk Show
"Kill the Boer:" What's Really Happening in South Africa
And then they would try to convince us that targeting property rights and destroying the free market would somehow be good for the economy as it would lead to what they call black empowerment, which is just, or transformation, that's the other term, which is just the South African term for DEI, as we know it.
The Charlie Kirk Show
"Kill the Boer:" What's Really Happening in South Africa
Yes, it has become a regular thing. There was a time when it wasn't chanted that often, and now it has become a new way of, you might say, targeting the Boers and poking fun at the Boers, making fun of them and so forth.
The Charlie Kirk Show
"Kill the Boer:" What's Really Happening in South Africa
So that is a political rally by a party ironically called the Economic Freedom Fighters, proclaiming to fight for economic freedom, when of course it's nothing but a communist movement, very much philosophically influenced by Frantz Fanon and his justification of violence.
The Charlie Kirk Show
"Kill the Boer:" What's Really Happening in South Africa
And this party is ideologically very much aligned with the ruling party in South Africa, very close to them, even though they are competing for votes. And this, what we see here, is a political chant that is always or almost always...
The Charlie Kirk Show
"Kill the Boer:" What's Really Happening in South Africa
It follows on a political speech during which the politician speaking would speak about how, for example, and this is a direct quote, all white people are criminals and should be treated as such. And statements such as, if you see a beautiful piece of land, go and take it, it is yours. And statements such as, we are going to slit the throat of whiteness.
The Charlie Kirk Show
"Kill the Boer:" What's Really Happening in South Africa
And I could just keep on mentioning examples. So it's this very provocative speech followed by the chanting of kill the boer.
The Charlie Kirk Show
"Kill the Boer:" What's Really Happening in South Africa
Well, let me firstly say the counter argument to concerns about farmer tax is always yes, but there are other crimes also in South Africa, gang-related violence and so forth. And that is true. But what we have with the farmers being targeted in South Africa and killed is a complete disproportionate targeting of this section of society. Because remember, there are very few farmers.
The Charlie Kirk Show
"Kill the Boer:" What's Really Happening in South Africa
There are about 30,000 commercial farmers in South Africa who are now being targeted, not just attacked and killed, but as I mentioned previously, very brutally tortured, in some cases tortured for hours during these attacks.
The Charlie Kirk Show
"Kill the Boer:" What's Really Happening in South Africa
And what we also find in some of these attacks are the attackers chanting political slogans such as kill the boer while they torture their victims, making political statements, referencing certain politicians, making some racist commentary and so forth. And in one of the worst cases, it was an elderly, two elderly women, a mother and her daughter who were both elderly,
The Charlie Kirk Show
"Kill the Boer:" What's Really Happening in South Africa
who were severely tortured and killed on a farm. And the attackers actually went as far as taking the blood of the victims and writing the words, kill the Boer, on a farmhouse. So it's really, really alarming. And it's particularly alarming to see the extent to which the media is trying to downplay this.
The Charlie Kirk Show
"Kill the Boer:" What's Really Happening in South Africa
Yes. So we have been here since 1652, which is 300, almost 400 years ago. My family has been here. The first roots of whom I directly descend lived at the time of George Washington. He was a little bit older than George Washington himself.
The Charlie Kirk Show
"Kill the Boer:" What's Really Happening in South Africa
uh and uh he that's when he came to south africa from europe the afrikaner people descend from the predominantly from the dutch the french and the germans who came to south africa during the 16 and 1700s we became a people in south africa we have our own language which we named after the continent afrikaans we we called our own we named ourselves after the continent we are the afrikaners
The Charlie Kirk Show
"Kill the Boer:" What's Really Happening in South Africa
We have a very unique, a very rich history. We have our own culture that we developed here in the southern tip of the African continent. Civilizationally speaking, you could say we are Westerners and we're very proud of our Western heritage. And we're actually the last Western outpost on the African continent. And we're very proud to be in Africa and to have remained in Africa.
The Charlie Kirk Show
"Kill the Boer:" What's Really Happening in South Africa
And we are certainly committed to a future here in the African continent where our ancestors have faced many existential crises over the centuries.
The Charlie Kirk Show
"Kill the Boer:" What's Really Happening in South Africa
Thank you. Well, the book is Kill the Boer and it is available on Amazon. And I would encourage people to go and read it and also to talk about this.
The Charlie Kirk Show
"Kill the Boer:" What's Really Happening in South Africa
Well, the answer to that is both yes and no. The reason why the answer is no is because our community is very actively being targeted by the government. I mean, I can tell you the names of people I know who have been attacked on farms and even people who have been murdered. I myself have been in an armed robbery situation.
The Charlie Kirk Show
"Kill the Boer:" What's Really Happening in South Africa
And on top of the violence, we have more than 140 race laws in this country aimed at targeting and discriminating against the white minority. We have the rhetoric. We have the threats to confiscate property and all of that. The reason why the answer is yes, that we do feel safe, is because we are a very well-organized community. And
The Charlie Kirk Show
"Kill the Boer:" What's Really Happening in South Africa
we uh and and i i say feel safe perhaps in quotation marks but but to a certain extent the afrikaner people have gotten used to living in africa and uh to walking around wearing a firearm to defend yourself if needs be and you know it's almost like the wild west but perhaps south africa is the wild south and and and but but the thing is we we love this country so much
The Charlie Kirk Show
"Kill the Boer:" What's Really Happening in South Africa
that a lot of people i know a lot of people want to leave and a lot of people would leave but but the overwhelming sentiment here is that we really love this country we love this place we love our history we love our culture and we want to have a future and and we need we need some form of an intervention to ensure that we can remain here as our ancestors have done for hundreds of years
The Charlie Kirk Show
"Kill the Boer:" What's Really Happening in South Africa
Yeah, no, you're absolutely right. It is reaching some form of a boiling point. So in the 1990s, when there were the negotiations for a new South Africa, the president of South Africa, the current president, Cyril Ramaphosa, was the chief negotiator for the ANC.
The Charlie Kirk Show
"Kill the Boer:" What's Really Happening in South Africa
And he was asked during a private meeting by a member of one of the opposition parties, what is the ANC's plan for dealing with white people in a so-called new South Africa? To which he responded that their plan for dealing with whites is like boiling a frog alive. You know, that metaphor of the frog that is put in hot water, but the water isn't boiling temperature at first.
The Charlie Kirk Show
"Kill the Boer:" What's Really Happening in South Africa
The temperature gradually increases up until ensuring that the frog doesn't jump out up until the point where the frog eventually boils to death. And it's very alarming to see the extent to which this is actually what they have been doing since taking power in 1994. And so you mentioned the word unsustainable, and that is the correct word.
The Charlie Kirk Show
"Kill the Boer:" What's Really Happening in South Africa
And so what we need from a sort of macro political perspective is change. some form of an intervention in the sense that the political system in South Africa has to change. South Africa is, in a certain sense, a globalist project. And the solution to this is self-governance. We do not have self-governance in this country. We are dominated by a race nationalist socialist movement.
The Charlie Kirk Show
"Kill the Boer:" What's Really Happening in South Africa
And they're obviously trying to convince us that these socialist ideas would make the country a better place. They then blend it with race nationalism, not even race nationalism, just racist nationalism. And it's been so destructive to this country. And this needs to stop. We need a different political system for the country altogether.
The Charlie Kirk Show
"Kill the Boer:" What's Really Happening in South Africa
I think it's possible. I think it's not just possible. It's highly probable that the system would change at some point because it's very clear, not just that it is failing, but that it has failed and that it continues to fail.
The Charlie Kirk Show
"Kill the Boer:" What's Really Happening in South Africa
And so that is what we are trying to do with the Pioneer Initiative, is raising awareness about the fact that we do not simply have a choice between the ANC government and the apartheid system, but there are other political systems that one might consider, federalism being one, but there are others as well. And there's going to be a change.
The Charlie Kirk Show
"Kill the Boer:" What's Really Happening in South Africa
And what we need to do is to be well-organized and sure when the system changes, it changes for the better and not for the worse.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
538. South Africa: What the West Needs to Learn | Dr. Ernst Roets
I mentioned this story about the vow that was made in 1838. And he went to negotiate with the Zulu king, King Dungan. They signed a treaty. The king said, we need to celebrate this, but leave your weapons outside. And so during the celebration, the Zulu king chanted, kill the wizards. And they slaughtered them. We need to retaliate. We need to attack back.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
538. South Africa: What the West Needs to Learn | Dr. Ernst Roets
I think they came in before the Europeans came, but they were coming in from the north in the same century, you could say.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
538. South Africa: What the West Needs to Learn | Dr. Ernst Roets
Yes, they were less nomadic than the Bushmen. The Bushmen were more nomadic. They moved around much more. And the Bantu groups were also, in a sense, nomadic. But they settled in, like the Zulus built the Zulu kingdom in KwaZulu-Natal in the eastern part of the country. And they had more degrees of settlements.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
538. South Africa: What the West Needs to Learn | Dr. Ernst Roets
1810.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
538. South Africa: What the West Needs to Learn | Dr. Ernst Roets
And that's when the British came to colonize the Cape, partly as a result of the wars in Europe. And so we had some battles with the British, the Battle of Bloberg, the Battle of Meissenburg, and eventually the Cape was colonized.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
538. South Africa: What the West Needs to Learn | Dr. Ernst Roets
I think it's all of that. It was part of the British expanding the British Empire, the strategic importance of the southern point of the African continent, especially for the trade that was before the— Well, the richness of the land.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
538. South Africa: What the West Needs to Learn | Dr. Ernst Roets
Not yet, okay. And so they settled. which led to the great event in our history that many people say is the event that during which we became a people, which was the Great Trek. So some of the Afrikaner people or the Dutch speaking peoples in the Cape at the time felt that they cannot be governed by another nation.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
538. South Africa: What the West Needs to Learn | Dr. Ernst Roets
They were very, very aggrieved by the idea that someone came in from another continent and- And took over. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And they wanted to be free.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
538. South Africa: What the West Needs to Learn | Dr. Ernst Roets
and so they eventually opted to move into the interior of south africa which was a very dangerous thing to do because people didn't know what they would find in the interior they sent in some what they call the commission track they sent in some scouts and and actually the scouts came back and said that there was there was they found some people in certain areas but largely speaking there were vast open tracks of land because what's also important in you this is again why the history of land ownership is so complex that was shortly after
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
538. South Africa: What the West Needs to Learn | Dr. Ernst Roets
the Mfekane genocide, which was a genocide, some figures estimate that about a million people were killed, as a result of Zulu expansionism and a conflict between the Zulu king and Mfekane or Msilikati, who was the, I think he was a soldier in the Zulu kingdom and he eventually had the Matabele or the Ndebele people.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
538. South Africa: What the West Needs to Learn | Dr. Ernst Roets
And it was expansionist wars and it spread out throughout the southern part of Africa and there was mass extermination campaigns. So the scouts came back and they said in some places they found peoples living, in some places there was just no one, and in some places they just found bones, skeletons.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
538. South Africa: What the West Needs to Learn | Dr. Ernst Roets
South Africa is about twice the size of Texas. So it's a pretty big country compared to the US, it's small. You could say it's the size of Western Europe if you take away Spain. So it's a pretty big country.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
538. South Africa: What the West Needs to Learn | Dr. Ernst Roets
I think about 2,000, if I recall. It was a fairly small group initially.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
538. South Africa: What the West Needs to Learn | Dr. Ernst Roets
Very, very similar. The Afrikaner story is remarkably similar to the American story. Also, we had our wars with the British. It's remarkably similar. Our interactions with local communities, the track towards the interior, it's a fascinating story, just how comparable it is. Also, culturally speaking.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
538. South Africa: What the West Needs to Learn | Dr. Ernst Roets
So they, again, going back to the issue of conflict versus cooperation, there were many examples of cooperation and treaties, dozens of treaties that were signed with local tribes cooperating, but there was also conflict. And one of the most significant, or the most well-known battle was the Battle of Blood River,
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
538. South Africa: What the West Needs to Learn | Dr. Ernst Roets
which was when the Fuertrakkers, as they were known, which essentially means pioneer, also another similarity. It means those who go out ahead. They were known as the Fuertrakkers. And so they had conflict with the Ndebele people of Msilikati, this soldier from the Zulu who was part of this, you know.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
538. South Africa: What the West Needs to Learn | Dr. Ernst Roets
Yeah, he had conflict with the Zulu king. And then they also had conflict with the Zulus. And one of the battles, I should just mention this in passing, was the Battle of Fagkop, where the Fuertrakkers were attacked by the Ndebele's of Msilikatsi. But it was an ambush. They didn't expect it. And so it was men and women and children who had to defend themselves.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
538. South Africa: What the West Needs to Learn | Dr. Ernst Roets
And it's an important part of our story. because the women were there in the field next to the men with their as they called it, these front-loading rifles, the very sort of primitive guns that they had at the time. And they had to defend themselves as they were attacked.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
538. South Africa: What the West Needs to Learn | Dr. Ernst Roets
Yeah, it took quite some time to reload the gun. It took quite some time. So sometimes you had to get people to help you to reload the gun. And also they had... They had sheer numbers against them. So I mentioned this story, but maybe I should tell this to you as well, the story about the vow that was made in 1838. I mentioned this when I spoke with Tucker Carlson as well.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
538. South Africa: What the West Needs to Learn | Dr. Ernst Roets
So the Voortrekkers, they had a democratic election internally and they elected this leader, Pieter Tief was his name. He became sort of the leader of this trek, and he went to negotiate with the Zulu king, King Dungan, who was the younger brother of Shaka, King Shaka. He actually killed his brother, and then he became the king.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
538. South Africa: What the West Needs to Learn | Dr. Ernst Roets
And they negotiated for a piece of land, and the treaty was, broadly speaking, that they would get a piece of land between the Tugela and the Umzumvubu rivers, for which they had to get cattle back that was stolen from the Zulus by another tribe. And so they brought the cattle back, this retif was warned against this. Some of the people said to him, listen, this is very dangerous and be careful.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
538. South Africa: What the West Needs to Learn | Dr. Ernst Roets
And he said, no, we have to do this. We need to get land and we need to buy land. So they went to the Zulu king. They gave the cattle back. They signed a treaty. The king made a cross on a piece of paper on the contract. And he then said, the king said, we need to celebrate this. And so he said, come to my camp tonight and we'll have a celebration, but leave your weapons outside.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
538. South Africa: What the West Needs to Learn | Dr. Ernst Roets
And so during the celebration, the Zulu king at one moment chanted , which means kill the wizards. And so they took the entire group to a nearby hill and they slaughtered them. And this Ratif, who was the leader, they had him stand and watch how his men were slaughtered, including his son, who was with them. And they killed him last.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
538. South Africa: What the West Needs to Learn | Dr. Ernst Roets
So then they went out to attack the lagers, the camps where the Fuertrakers were, especially women and children. I believe the number is 185 women and children who were killed during these surprise attacks at night. The Voertrekker people then said, or the Afrikaners said, we need to retaliate, we need to attack back.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
538. South Africa: What the West Needs to Learn | Dr. Ernst Roets
And so they had a command of about three to 400 people to go and attack the Zulus. At one moment, they found that they were completely surrounded by about 12,000 Zulus. Some people, some estimates say 20,000, but I think 12,000 is the number that's most commonly used, like all around them on the hills.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
538. South Africa: What the West Needs to Learn | Dr. Ernst Roets
They were about 300 against 12,000, surrounded by 12,000. And so they thought, well, we're going to die. This is it. That's kind of what you'd think, all right. And then a man, I'm very proud to descend from him, a man named Sarl Salia, he was the religious leader. And he said, we need to make a vow to God. And so they got together and they wrote a vow.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
538. South Africa: What the West Needs to Learn | Dr. Ernst Roets
And the vow said that they make a vow to God that if He protects them in the battle that lies ahead, that they would commemorate this day as a Sabbath, even after, regardless of what day of the week it is, that we would tell our children to commemorate this day as well, and that we will build a church where He wants us to build a church, and that the honor of the victory will go to Him and not to us.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
538. South Africa: What the West Needs to Learn | Dr. Ernst Roets
And so that battle took place on the 16th of December, 1838. And the consequence of the battle was that not one of the Voertrekkers were killed. 3,000 Zulus were killed in the battle. So it was a spectacular event. And some people say that's the origin story of our people. That's when we became a people.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
538. South Africa: What the West Needs to Learn | Dr. Ernst Roets
And that's partly, this is so important to us, firstly, because we still celebrate 16th of December. We commemorate that as a Sabbath. We go to church on the 16th of December. We have cultural festivals and so forth, not because of the battle against the Zulus, but because we were protected by God.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
538. South Africa: What the West Needs to Learn | Dr. Ernst Roets
But it says a lot about why we are so conservative, why we love the land so much and the country, and why we are so religious still. So after that, they went further north and they settled and they established Pretoria, which is the capital of South Africa today. And many of the northern towns and cities eventually became developed.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
538. South Africa: What the West Needs to Learn | Dr. Ernst Roets
Well, it's certainly both. So the population in South Africa grew quite rapidly in the centuries that followed among the white communities and also the black communities, up to the point where now there are about 60 million people in South Africa. Okay, and what's the racial mix?
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
538. South Africa: What the West Needs to Learn | Dr. Ernst Roets
It's about the white section, which you could say the white Anglos, the English-speaking, and also the Afrikaner people are just below 5 million. The Afrikaners are about 2.7 million. And the African or the black African population has grown rapidly. Interestingly enough, this is worth mentioning, it's often said that the apartheid system was a genocide.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
538. South Africa: What the West Needs to Learn | Dr. Ernst Roets
There's a lot to criticize and we should talk about that, about just how bad it was and what went wrong. But genocide is not the right term because the black population in South Africa doubled I think it was in the first two decades of the apartheid system, and then it doubled again after that. So there was a massive population growth among black South Africans, especially in the last century.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
538. South Africa: What the West Needs to Learn | Dr. Ernst Roets
So there would be slightly less. We can look up the exact numbers. There are slightly fewer. There's also what we call a colored community. I think in some countries they say mixed race. Quite significant, quite big as well. Bigger than the Afrikaner community. They generally speak Afrikaans, the same language as us. But they have their own culture that they've developed over time.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
538. South Africa: What the West Needs to Learn | Dr. Ernst Roets
And so they had a command of about 300 to 400 people. They were completely surrounded by about 12,000. A man named Sadal Saliha, he was the religious leader. And he said, we need to make a vow to God. Some people say that's the origin story of our people.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
538. South Africa: What the West Needs to Learn | Dr. Ernst Roets
They also live mostly more in the southern parts of South Africa. So just from a racial perspective, South Africa is very diverse. But as you mentioned initially, races are not homogenous.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
538. South Africa: What the West Needs to Learn | Dr. Ernst Roets
So if you consider the fact that within the different racial groups, there are different cultures and communities, the diversity, the complexity of South African society is really something that people should take note of. And it's easy to simplify that by simply saying, oh, there are white people and black people and the whites and blacks are in conflict.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
538. South Africa: What the West Needs to Learn | Dr. Ernst Roets
That's so oversimplified that it's a false narrative.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
538. South Africa: What the West Needs to Learn | Dr. Ernst Roets
Yep.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
538. South Africa: What the West Needs to Learn | Dr. Ernst Roets
So unfortunately, that narrative is so oversimplified that it's almost farcical. So the one claim would be that Europe is the continent for white people and Africa is the continent for black people. So it doesn't matter that the groups who live in South Africa came from the North of Africa, they still came from Africa. That's kind of hard on the North Africans. Yes.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
538. South Africa: What the West Needs to Learn | Dr. Ernst Roets
And so my answer to that is that implies that if you apply that same argument to Europe, then you should say black people in Europe are not welcome. They should go back to Africa. Because the narrative in South Africa is whites must go back to Europe because this is black people's continent.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
538. South Africa: What the West Needs to Learn | Dr. Ernst Roets
And so the political slogan is that when the Dutch came, they didn't bring any land on their ships. So that's sort of the joke that, oh, you came and you colonized. And the narrative is that they wouldn't say that South Africa was densely populated because they know it wasn't, but they would say that all of it belonged to the black groups who were living in South Africa.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
538. South Africa: What the West Needs to Learn | Dr. Ernst Roets
And so the arrival of the Europeans was essentially colonialism.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
538. South Africa: What the West Needs to Learn | Dr. Ernst Roets
Not originally, later they had.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
538. South Africa: What the West Needs to Learn | Dr. Ernst Roets
Yeah, so the argument is if something like, if you have walked over a mountain once, then that mountain belongs to your tribe, something along those lines. Which is playing out in Australia, for example, right now in a major way. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
538. South Africa: What the West Needs to Learn | Dr. Ernst Roets
But this is a classic example of what Huntington would call the clash of civilizations. It's just different perspectives on, for example, the issue of property rights, the notion of what does ownership mean, different cultures, different communities, but also different civilizations have different perspectives on that.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
538. South Africa: What the West Needs to Learn | Dr. Ernst Roets
And now we're sort of in this place now where the Western perspective has become the dominant perspective.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
538. South Africa: What the West Needs to Learn | Dr. Ernst Roets
Yes, yes, exactly. But yeah, the fact of the matter is there were large tracts of land that wasn't inhabited.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
538. South Africa: What the West Needs to Learn | Dr. Ernst Roets
I'd like to add one thing is weapons technology or warfare technology. So Neil Ferguson talks about the killer application. There's one thing that has a massive consequence. So many of these- Like stirrups. Yeah, well, like the tribes that came in from the North had spears. And the Bushmen weren't able to defend themselves against spears.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
538. South Africa: What the West Needs to Learn | Dr. Ernst Roets
Then the Zulu people, King Shaka developed or had a different approach to using the spear as a weapon. He made the stick or the staff end much shorter so that you don't throw away your spear because he became concerned that you go to war and then you throw away your weapon and then what do you do? And so he said, we shouldn't throw away our weapons.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
538. South Africa: What the West Needs to Learn | Dr. Ernst Roets
We should have big shields so that when they throw spears at us, we should be able to defend ourselves. And then our spear is something that we can use to stab and then we still have it. And just that one thing had a massive consequence in terms of Zulu dominance in South Africa.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
538. South Africa: What the West Needs to Learn | Dr. Ernst Roets
Yes. Isn't it the space odyssey story with, I think there's reference to the ancient primates and the one group is able to pick up a stick, a bone. And the fact that one group is able to do that and the other isn't just means- That was a big deal. The other group gets obliterated.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
538. South Africa: What the West Needs to Learn | Dr. Ernst Roets
Yes.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
538. South Africa: What the West Needs to Learn | Dr. Ernst Roets
It's the equivalent of the atomic bomb. It's a game changer. Exactly. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Absolutely.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
538. South Africa: What the West Needs to Learn | Dr. Ernst Roets
Right. It's the Dutch legal principle of res nullius is a piece of land or property that doesn't belong to anyone because there's no one there. Right. And so a res nullius is something that you can occupy. But that's not the narrative. That's not the mainstream narrative. I think there are very few historians who actually push this mainstream narrative.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
538. South Africa: What the West Needs to Learn | Dr. Ernst Roets
I think most historians who are worth their salt now that the history of land ownership in South Africa is much more complex?
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
538. South Africa: What the West Needs to Learn | Dr. Ernst Roets
That is a very good question, and I think it deserves a long answer, and I might not have the full answer. Because I think it ties in with a lot of the problems that the West has in terms of this deep-rooted sense of guilt that Westerners have about their own history, about their own past.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
538. South Africa: What the West Needs to Learn | Dr. Ernst Roets
And this oikophobic, I think that's Roger Scruton's term, of sort of hating your own and having a deep sense of remorse for your own history and feeling sorry for that. I think it's rooted in that. It's this down-with-us mentality that we are the bad guys and we need to feel sorry for ourselves.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
538. South Africa: What the West Needs to Learn | Dr. Ernst Roets
To be honest, I haven't seen that. What I can say is Prince Mangusutu Butelezi, who was a very well-known Zulu politician, anti-apartheid activist, he once apologized to the Afrikaner people for the massacre of Petretif that I mentioned earlier.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
538. South Africa: What the West Needs to Learn | Dr. Ernst Roets
I think it's oversimplified, but I think enlightenment philosophy has played some role.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
538. South Africa: What the West Needs to Learn | Dr. Ernst Roets
So why I say enlightenment philosophy played a role, I mean, there are many examples. We mentioned Jean-Jacques Rousseau. Voltaire, for example, if you read his works, he places a lot of emphasis on as many modern philosophers do, sort of detachment from the community.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
538. South Africa: What the West Needs to Learn | Dr. Ernst Roets
We have to cultivate your garden, which is a good thing, but the Voltairean view of cultivating your garden is, you know, don't look at what's happening in the world out there, just focus on your garden at your home, something like that. But Voltaire also writes a lot about how other, you could say, civilizations are actually better than the West. He writes a lot about the East, about
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
538. South Africa: What the West Needs to Learn | Dr. Ernst Roets
That's your frame of reference.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
538. South Africa: What the West Needs to Learn | Dr. Ernst Roets
Yes. So maybe a different way of putting this, as opposed to reference, talking about enlightenment philosophy, is to say the West has had to make this, the West went through some form of a recognition that the Western frame of reference is not the frame of reference, but a frame of reference. And I think a lot of people in the West recognize we're not quite sure how to deal with that.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
538. South Africa: What the West Needs to Learn | Dr. Ernst Roets
We still aren't. Yeah, which leads to a lot of conflict and one way of dealing... And doubt. Yeah, and one way of dealing with that is to say that our way is right and everyone else's way is wrong and we need to enforce our view on the rest of the world.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
538. South Africa: What the West Needs to Learn | Dr. Ernst Roets
Yeah, well, that's got its problems, I'd say. And another way of dealing with it that is equally bad is to say, well, we need to dissolve. Yeah. We, you know, it's... We have an identity crisis as a result of this. And so maybe those guys are better than we are. And I think the appropriate solution lies in the middle. The golden mean is to say that we have a particular frame of reference.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
538. South Africa: What the West Needs to Learn | Dr. Ernst Roets
And we see that in South Africa all the time, that there's a Western frame of reference, but people who aren't Westerners don't have that frame of reference. And one practical example in South Africa is property rights. So we believe in individual ownership of property.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
538. South Africa: What the West Needs to Learn | Dr. Ernst Roets
Yes. Yeah, but the Zulu culture is much more one that emphasizes monarchy and communal ownership of land. So the king owns the land. And I don't think the correct way to deal with that is for me to go to the Zulu people and say, you guys are wrong. You need to change your culture. You need to adopt our way of thinking. And it's not that easy to navigate.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
538. South Africa: What the West Needs to Learn | Dr. Ernst Roets
And I think that's why South Africa is such an important case study for the world because we have these communities living on this piece of land. And how do we deal with that? Because people think about things like history, as we mentioned, differently. They think about things like property rights differently. They think about ownership and so forth in different ways.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
538. South Africa: What the West Needs to Learn | Dr. Ernst Roets
And the appropriate way to deal with that is not to try to enforce your way of thinking onto the other, but to try to find a way where there's mutual recognition and respect between different perspectives.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
538. South Africa: What the West Needs to Learn | Dr. Ernst Roets
Well, let me firstly say thank you very much for speaking with me. And I can say with great self-assurance that a lot of people in South Africa would be very happy to hear that you are interested in what's happening in South Africa.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
538. South Africa: What the West Needs to Learn | Dr. Ernst Roets
Yeah, which to us was very important, but in their culture, it's not that big a deal. And the signed document is almost irrelevant.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
538. South Africa: What the West Needs to Learn | Dr. Ernst Roets
Well, hopefully we can flesh out a lot of that. So you're absolutely right to say that the history of, or the patterns of land ownership and the history leading to this is complex. And we can do an entire interview just about that because there were so many events that happened in South Africa.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
538. South Africa: What the West Needs to Learn | Dr. Ernst Roets
1990.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
538. South Africa: What the West Needs to Learn | Dr. Ernst Roets
So we're basically 35 years away from that.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
538. South Africa: What the West Needs to Learn | Dr. Ernst Roets
Is that about right? Let me just say something about the dismantling of the apartheid system. By the end of the system, initially it started out as an attempt to deal with these complex dynamics that we've been discussing. And the broad idea was, let's give everyone homelands. We have a strong central government to keep everyone in check, and then the different nations have their own homelands.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
538. South Africa: What the West Needs to Learn | Dr. Ernst Roets
And, you know, that sounds great, but in practice it's not quite that applicable, especially when you still have a strong central government that sort of manages everything. But by the 80s, the Afrikaner people knew this is not working. You know, we need to change.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
538. South Africa: What the West Needs to Learn | Dr. Ernst Roets
Culturally. So the argument was that South Africa should be thought of as Europe, which I don't think is a bad argument because the point is it's a big piece of land that's very diverse. And how do we deal with that? And the solution to Europe is not have one big European government,
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
538. South Africa: What the West Needs to Learn | Dr. Ernst Roets
Exactly. So the solution must be some form of decentralization. But the way to do that, they thought, was to have one big centralized government that sort of manages the decentralization. And then, of course, there were all these laws that were implemented. And it was also during the time of the Cold War. So they had the Suppression of Communism Act implemented.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
538. South Africa: What the West Needs to Learn | Dr. Ernst Roets
which said that if you promote communism, it's a crime and you're going to be prosecuted.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
538. South Africa: What the West Needs to Learn | Dr. Ernst Roets
Yeah, the concerns about the threat of communism wasn't exaggerated.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
538. South Africa: What the West Needs to Learn | Dr. Ernst Roets
Broadly speaking, the people who live in South Africa who are of European descent, such as myself, arrived in 1652. That was the settlement when the Dutch East India Company arrived in Cape Town. or what is today Cape Town, to start a refreshment station for ships traveling around Africa to trade with the East.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
538. South Africa: What the West Needs to Learn | Dr. Ernst Roets
Yeah. So the point I want to make is by the end, of the apartheid era. The metaphor that was used was like riding on the back of a tiger and having to get off. You know you have to get off this tiger, but the question is how do you get off without getting eaten? That was the question that at least the Afrikaner people were grappling with.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
538. South Africa: What the West Needs to Learn | Dr. Ernst Roets
How do we end this in a way that is peaceful and in a way that would not be- And sustainable. Yes, yes. And it was, the transition, I would say, was at least peaceful, fairly. Yeah, not bad. The violence in townships, I think, is underestimated, but especially black-on-black violence in South Africa.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
538. South Africa: What the West Needs to Learn | Dr. Ernst Roets
So that's the... It's urbanized areas that are very poor in South Africa, where the majority of black people live. And... At the time, there was some very, very vicious rival warfare, you could say, between competing political groups who were competing for support of black people, as if that's one whole.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
538. South Africa: What the West Needs to Learn | Dr. Ernst Roets
And the ANC, who's currently governing, was not the biggest initially, but they became the biggest because they were supported by the Soviet Union and the Chinese, and they got weapons and so forth. Well, in terms of getting off a tiger,
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
538. South Africa: What the West Needs to Learn | Dr. Ernst Roets
Well, quite miraculously well, all things considered. Nelson Mandela probably being the prime example of someone who continually called for peaceful solutions. And he was criticized for that within his own party. But I think to use, you mentioned safe, but also sustainable. So the solution we got was a safe one, but not sustainable.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
538. South Africa: What the West Needs to Learn | Dr. Ernst Roets
Well, there's so much that has unfolded, but one way to think of it is that in terms of, the way I put it is we have two problems. The one is the ship is headed in the wrong direction. And what I mean by that is those in power openly say they want to implement socialist solutions. They want to take property rights. They think the way to help to uplift the poor is to attack the rich.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
538. South Africa: What the West Needs to Learn | Dr. Ernst Roets
because that has happened to many examples.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
538. South Africa: What the West Needs to Learn | Dr. Ernst Roets
They're some of the best farmers in the world.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
538. South Africa: What the West Needs to Learn | Dr. Ernst Roets
It was initially the Dutch, and they were then joined by Germans and French especially, but some other Europeans as well. And we sometimes call them the Proto-Afrikaners because the Afrikaner people became a people obviously it's not just one singular event and then you are a people, but it happened over time when we developed our own language and culture in Africa.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
538. South Africa: What the West Needs to Learn | Dr. Ernst Roets
And look at what the Dutch do in Europe. I think the Dutch are probably the best, I think productively the best farmers.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
538. South Africa: What the West Needs to Learn | Dr. Ernst Roets
So one thing they did, which is very smart and very strategic, is the ANC, when they took power, they said the single biggest problem in South Africa is a triangle. It's a triangle of unemployment, poverty, and inequality. And so they lump those three things together. And so the solution is to find, or the quest is to find a solution for these three things, which is essentially the same thing.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
538. South Africa: What the West Needs to Learn | Dr. Ernst Roets
But unfortunately, they don't seem to know how to encourage production. They don't know how to fix the unemployment problem because they think the solution is socialism. And so the way, ironically, they've gotten to a point where they can only think about inequality.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
538. South Africa: What the West Needs to Learn | Dr. Ernst Roets
And so they get Margaret Thatcher, that famous line saying, you would rather have the poor be poorer provided that the rich is less rich.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
538. South Africa: What the West Needs to Learn | Dr. Ernst Roets
Yeah. Right. Yeah, we had to figure out how to, yeah.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
538. South Africa: What the West Needs to Learn | Dr. Ernst Roets
So that was about 400 years ago. But what also happened in South Africa in terms of the different black groups, if you could use that term, who live in South Africa, is we had the, and still have the, what is called the Khoi and the San. A lot of people know it as the Bushmen. That's how they're also known. A lot of them prefer to be called the Bushmen.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
538. South Africa: What the West Needs to Learn | Dr. Ernst Roets
Yes. Yes. But also not. So that's the irony. So that goes to the point about the ship I mentioned. So the ship's headed in the wrong direction. But even though the ship is heading in the wrong direction, the ship is sinking. And what I mean by that is- That's a bad combination. Yes.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
538. South Africa: What the West Needs to Learn | Dr. Ernst Roets
So the fact that the ship is sinking has become a bigger problem than the fact that it's headed in the wrong direction. And when I say the ship is sinking, I mean that we just have massive state failure in South Africa. So they want to implement all these very radical policy ideas. And they have become more radical. Because they talk about a two-phase revolution.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
538. South Africa: What the West Needs to Learn | Dr. Ernst Roets
Phase one is getting control of the levers of power through democracy. And phase two is once you have power, you need to use the levers of power to implement your socialist ideas, which is where they are now. So we have this plethora of new... very radical leftist policy ideas in South Africa.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
538. South Africa: What the West Needs to Learn | Dr. Ernst Roets
The argument was that South Africa should be thought of as Europe. The single biggest problem in South Africa, it's the triangle of unemployment, poverty and inequality. Ironically, they've gotten to a point where they can only think about inequality.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
538. South Africa: What the West Needs to Learn | Dr. Ernst Roets
But on the one hand, they're not really able to implement this because firstly of large scale corruption, but just sheer incompetence within the South African government. So everything that the government is supposed to be doing in South Africa with the exception of tax collection is collapsing.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
538. South Africa: What the West Needs to Learn | Dr. Ernst Roets
So, we can literally take any example, but let's take power as an example. We started having rolling blackouts maybe a decade ago. And it was first, you would have an hour without electricity because they're not able to provide electricity for everyone because they didn't build power stations. Well, providing electricity for everyone turns out to be very difficult. Yes.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
538. South Africa: What the West Needs to Learn | Dr. Ernst Roets
You better stay on top of it. So you have to build stations, but you also have to maintain them. Yeah, right. And neither of these two are happening. So we're about, I think the last time I saw about half of the capacity we would have been if the power stations were maintained.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
538. South Africa: What the West Needs to Learn | Dr. Ernst Roets
Yes, exactly. And so, yeah, so that's one part of the problem. But then, so where we are now, initially, it's the metaphor. Let me say this, because I think this is relevant. So, Cyril Ramaphosa, who's the president of South Africa now, was the chief negotiator for the ANC during the negotiations for the- African National Congress. That's it, yes. Yes.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
538. South Africa: What the West Needs to Learn | Dr. Ernst Roets
People know them from the movie, The Gods Must Be Crazy and so forth. And they are the true indigenous people. If you want to say who are the indigenous people of South Africa, it's the Khoi and the San. They lived pretty much all over South Africa. They've been there for tens of thousands of years.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
538. South Africa: What the West Needs to Learn | Dr. Ernst Roets
And so one member of parliament who was an opposition member of parliament wrote in his memoirs that he was part of the negotiations. And he asked during this negotiations, he asked Robert Porza, who's, as I said, the president at the moment, what's your plan for dealing with the whites? To which he said, well, that's easy. You deal with them like boiling a frog alive.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
538. South Africa: What the West Needs to Learn | Dr. Ernst Roets
You know, the metaphor, putting the frog in the water and just lifting it. I hear that metaphor a lot nowadays in many places. Yes, just lifting the temperature gradually and then the frog doesn't jump out. And so the problem with that is we really see that how we, something gets worse.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
538. South Africa: What the West Needs to Learn | Dr. Ernst Roets
We hear that we have, for example, one hour of rolling blackouts and everyone complains and that's fine for a week or a month. And then it's two hours and then it becomes three hours.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
538. South Africa: What the West Needs to Learn | Dr. Ernst Roets
So now we have times where they are up to 12 hours a day without electricity.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
538. South Africa: What the West Needs to Learn | Dr. Ernst Roets
Yeah, we put up solar powers. So people adapt to that, those who can afford it. You have solar power. Right, so the richer people still have power. Exactly. Ironically, making the gap between the rich and the poor bigger.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
538. South Africa: What the West Needs to Learn | Dr. Ernst Roets
So we lose about 40, almost 50% of our water as a result of leakages. Pipes not being maintained. And the funniest story was in one town, the town didn't have water. And then the municipal managers said, but remember, these pipes were built by the apartheid government. So we should blame the pipes.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
538. South Africa: What the West Needs to Learn | Dr. Ernst Roets
So they're not maintaining the pipes, but the fact that they were built by the previous government means that the pipes are the problem, but not maintaining them.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
538. South Africa: What the West Needs to Learn | Dr. Ernst Roets
And so we have, that's a good example where, again, people who are more wealthy can make a plan. They dig boreholes or something. Well, it's the definition of wealth. You're protected from entropy. And the people who suffer the most are poor black South Africans who live in townships, who die from drinking water that is contaminated.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
538. South Africa: What the West Needs to Learn | Dr. Ernst Roets
Well, we have the transport system, for example. Our railways have collapsed. The port in Durban, in the eastern part of the country, last I read, it was number... Was it 405? Rated number 405 on a list of 405 ports. So the worst one in the world, which is a big deal because you need a well-functioning port for the economy to function. So that's an example. For people not to die.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
538. South Africa: What the West Needs to Learn | Dr. Ernst Roets
Again, once again. The transports, I mentioned that the roads, the fact that the roads aren't maintained. And then we have these practical things like... policing is more than just practical. And once again, an example of the more wealthy people who are able to adapt to that. Higher private security. Exactly.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
538. South Africa: What the West Needs to Learn | Dr. Ernst Roets
So private security in South Africa is currently double the size of the police and the army combined.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
538. South Africa: What the West Needs to Learn | Dr. Ernst Roets
Yeah, because the police are, I mean, I was in an army.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
538. South Africa: What the West Needs to Learn | Dr. Ernst Roets
Yes, and then what happens again in poorer communities is they resort to some form of mob justice because the police aren't there. There's a guy who rapes people in your community. Everyone knows who he is and the police doesn't do anything. So the people deal with him themselves. So you get vigilante justice in South Africa. So that, and we can go down the list, the education system.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
538. South Africa: What the West Needs to Learn | Dr. Ernst Roets
One poll found that 80% or survey, 80% of the schools in South Africa are dysfunctional. I believe the top, I think the number is the top 200 schools in South Africa, which are predominantly the more wealthy schools, have more distinctions for children who finish high school than the next 6,000 schools combined. Mm-hmm. So the education system.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
538. South Africa: What the West Needs to Learn | Dr. Ernst Roets
And so again, everything, one economist is a very renowned economist in South Africa. He sort of makes a joke, but it's not just a joke. He says, people ask him, where should you invest? What should you do to make money? And he says, it's easy. You should look at what is the government supposed to be doing and invest in something that is in the private sphere that is doing that thing.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
538. South Africa: What the West Needs to Learn | Dr. Ernst Roets
I've heard that too.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
538. South Africa: What the West Needs to Learn | Dr. Ernst Roets
Yeah, well, I'd love to talk about that. And I would also love to hear your views on that because this is, I know you have a particular interest in it.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
538. South Africa: What the West Needs to Learn | Dr. Ernst Roets
So the counter argument would be that it's just a metaphor.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
538. South Africa: What the West Needs to Learn | Dr. Ernst Roets
So there was a cartoon about this in South Africa. It was two farm attackers. They've just murdered a farmer and they were running out of the house. And then the radio had a news report which says, kill the boer is just a metaphor. And then the one attacker turns to the other and asks, what's a metaphor? And so that, so the kill the boer is a chant.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
538. South Africa: What the West Needs to Learn | Dr. Ernst Roets
And what happens, and again, considering that people say it's just a metaphor, you have these politicians, many of which are more to the left of the ruling party who are already quite to the left. So they have these political rallies. The fringe of the fringe. Yes, and then they make these speeches.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
538. South Africa: What the West Needs to Learn | Dr. Ernst Roets
Julius Malema in particular is the guy, the leader of the economic freedom fighters.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
538. South Africa: What the West Needs to Learn | Dr. Ernst Roets
He looks like he's lots of fun.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
538. South Africa: What the West Needs to Learn | Dr. Ernst Roets
He would say he's celebrating the struggle against apartheid, and that's why he chants this. But then he would also say that the struggle isn't over. Right, the struggle is never over, not for the communists.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
538. South Africa: What the West Needs to Learn | Dr. Ernst Roets
Yeah. Yeah. So he would make a speech and the speech would be along the lines of, we need to slit the throat of whiteness. He would say things like that. He would say- That's all conceptual. Yeah, and then he would make a, this is an exact quote. He would say, all white people are criminals and they should be treated as such. He would say this during the speech and then he would give an applause.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
538. South Africa: What the West Needs to Learn | Dr. Ernst Roets
And he says, if you, and then they do the dehumanization thing, they call them cockroaches and all of that.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
538. South Africa: What the West Needs to Learn | Dr. Ernst Roets
And I'm very happy that you recognize this because a lot of people don't.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
538. South Africa: What the West Needs to Learn | Dr. Ernst Roets
Yep. So they would do that. They would talk about economic inequality. And the road, they would suggest that the road to your wealth is to go and attack those people over there. And then they would say things like, again, this is a direct quote. If you see a beautiful piece of land, go and take it. It's yours. So they would make these claims.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
538. South Africa: What the West Needs to Learn | Dr. Ernst Roets
Yeah, exactly. The people who own it are criminals.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
538. South Africa: What the West Needs to Learn | Dr. Ernst Roets
Yeah, but there are also groups like the South African government who would like people to believe that all black people are the same because that's their way of organizing as a collective on the basis of race.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
538. South Africa: What the West Needs to Learn | Dr. Ernst Roets
And so this same guy, again, during a speech, and he was asked about this in court.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
538. South Africa: What the West Needs to Learn | Dr. Ernst Roets
So he said, we are not calling for the slaughter of white people, at least for now. That's the line he used. Well then, everyone's relieved by that. Yeah, at least for now, happy. So there was a court case against this song, this chant, and he was asked to explain this. And he said, I can't guarantee the future.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
538. South Africa: What the West Needs to Learn | Dr. Ernst Roets
So the lawyer asked him, if you say I'm not calling for the slaughter of white people, at least for now, do you foresee a future where you might call for the slaughter of white people? And he said, yes, I do. I foresee that. But that would be their fault. It would be the fault of white people. Yes, of course. For not... getting to the program.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
538. South Africa: What the West Needs to Learn | Dr. Ernst Roets
And so they would make these speeches, and then once the speech is finished.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
538. South Africa: What the West Needs to Learn | Dr. Ernst Roets
So they would then burst into this chant. And it's not even a song. It's just a chant. Kill the boer, kill the farmer. And there are different variations. They often, they would make these.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
538. South Africa: What the West Needs to Learn | Dr. Ernst Roets
Yeah.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
538. South Africa: What the West Needs to Learn | Dr. Ernst Roets
Yeah, it's bizarre. But you know what's really, really shameful is, so I and many others have been campaigning against this for quite some time. And I can honestly say I'm not aware of a single cause in South Africa for which you get more viciously attacked by people in the media, the government, and so forth. In South Africa? In South Africa. And in the rest of the world?
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
538. South Africa: What the West Needs to Learn | Dr. Ernst Roets
And largely in the rest of the... No, I mean, I'm talking about a South African cause for which you get attacked more than campaigning for the farm killings to stop and for the hate speech to stop. So explain that. It would be, you would be accused of fear mongering
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
538. South Africa: What the West Needs to Learn | Dr. Ernst Roets
And so we had this term, Roy Gefahr, the red danger was the fear about the communists. And now the accusation is Swart Gefahr. So you are depicting black people as dangerous when it's a minority. It is a minority who's doing these things. But you get viciously attacked for- Depicting resentful communists as dangerous, like they are. Right, right. So- I think there's a reason why.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
538. South Africa: What the West Needs to Learn | Dr. Ernst Roets
I think there's because some form of a hierarchy of recognition in terms of who should be recognized for the hardships that they face. And when it comes to recognizing hardships in South Africa.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
538. South Africa: What the West Needs to Learn | Dr. Ernst Roets
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And this is sort of an inconvenient reality when you go to the area of oppression Olympics.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
538. South Africa: What the West Needs to Learn | Dr. Ernst Roets
So people don't want that to be part of the conversation.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
538. South Africa: What the West Needs to Learn | Dr. Ernst Roets
Because it's inconvenient to us.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
538. South Africa: What the West Needs to Learn | Dr. Ernst Roets
So the criminal is a victim.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
538. South Africa: What the West Needs to Learn | Dr. Ernst Roets
Can I say something about that, about sort of the road ahead? Because that's probably the most important part. Yeah. President Trump has started speaking out about what's happening in South Africa, for which we are very grateful, which has led to quite a backlash from the South African government. And their response is, it's not happening. That's the official... Right, yes, yes, yes.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
538. South Africa: What the West Needs to Learn | Dr. Ernst Roets
It doesn't exist. There are no farm murders in South Africa.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
538. South Africa: What the West Needs to Learn | Dr. Ernst Roets
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So... I do think one of the issues that's on the table now is refugee status for the Afrikaner, especially the farmers, to flee to the US or to get some form of protection from the US. And I know some people are interested in that. But what I should also say, and that's why I'm so grateful that we spoke about the history part at first, is...
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
538. South Africa: What the West Needs to Learn | Dr. Ernst Roets
Our concern is that if we just leave the country, our culture dissolves and our communal identity dissolves and we become Americans or whatever.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
538. South Africa: What the West Needs to Learn | Dr. Ernst Roets
Well, and you can look at the rest of Africa as an example, Zimbabwe and so forth. So we need to find some form of a, what I would call dispensational solution. The solution is not simply to say we need a different president. or we need a different party to take over parliament, because there's fundamental structural problems with the political system.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
538. South Africa: What the West Needs to Learn | Dr. Ernst Roets
It's like trying to repaint the skirtings when there's a problem with the foundation of the house. And the reason why I say that is because the country is very big, it's very diverse, it has a very strong central government, and also the country is quite poor, and poor countries tend to have more socialistic governments that are not necessarily... That's because they want to be poorer still.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
538. South Africa: What the West Needs to Learn | Dr. Ernst Roets
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And they're not necessarily interested in economic investments. It's just about blame shifting and scapegoating.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
538. South Africa: What the West Needs to Learn | Dr. Ernst Roets
So, and I think, and this is our message also to people in America, is it's great if there are people who want to flee or get out to help them, that they should get help. But- we must also look towards some form of a solution for the problem.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
538. South Africa: What the West Needs to Learn | Dr. Ernst Roets
There could be many different solutions, but I think what we are quite certain about is the direction that we need to head in, and that could lead to different outcomes. But the direction, the way I see it, is it's some form of a combination between decentralization of political power, so that those in power have much less power,
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
538. South Africa: What the West Needs to Learn | Dr. Ernst Roets
Well, that's a very important point. So they occupied... There were several thousands. I don't know if there were 100,000. I'm not sure. We can check those numbers. But they lived pretty much all over South Africa, and they lived more to the eastern part, which is important because the eastern part is... is much more fertile land.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
538. South Africa: What the West Needs to Learn | Dr. Ernst Roets
Yeah, it could be a federation. It could be some form of cultural autonomy. It could be territorial autonomy. It could take different forms. It could be Balkanization.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
538. South Africa: What the West Needs to Learn | Dr. Ernst Roets
So decentralization and the other aspect is sort of the bottom-up approach is self-governance. Because people, and that's not just for the Afrikaners or the white people,
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
538. South Africa: What the West Needs to Learn | Dr. Ernst Roets
anglos or it's it's the the south africa is a a people call it a community of communities there are so many different nations and tribes and so forth and they don't get to make decisions about their own affairs because the central government decides and the central government's the central government regards things like cultural identity and so forth as backwards tribal thinking.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
538. South Africa: What the West Needs to Learn | Dr. Ernst Roets
It's very similar. It's very similar to the European dynamics with the European Union.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
538. South Africa: What the West Needs to Learn | Dr. Ernst Roets
There's a big problem in South Africa with traditional leaders, or let's say the king of the Zulus, for example, not being recognized by the government for his role that he's playing. And so the government, the way we talk about it is the difference between natural identity and artificial identity. They have the slogan that says, for the nation to prosper, the tribe must die.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
538. South Africa: What the West Needs to Learn | Dr. Ernst Roets
But the nation for us is something else in the way a lot of Westerners think about the nation because the nation in our context is an artificial thing. It's a construct. It's putting all these people together, lumping. It's like saying you are all just Europeans now. And so Europe is the nation and the nations or the countries.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
538. South Africa: What the West Needs to Learn | Dr. Ernst Roets
I think the waste has gone too far.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
538. South Africa: What the West Needs to Learn | Dr. Ernst Roets
And when it gets to the point where the community dissolves and the atomized individual finds himself against the Leviathan, there's nothing you can do. You can't do anything. You can pray. You can pray. That's the only thing you can do. So the only solution is, again, what we call natural community or natural identity as opposed to these artificial communities we see today.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
538. South Africa: What the West Needs to Learn | Dr. Ernst Roets
It's much more humid and that's where the most productive farming land is and so forth. The Western part is arid, it's more deserts and dry and so forth. So they lived mostly in the East? Yes, but they don't anymore.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
538. South Africa: What the West Needs to Learn | Dr. Ernst Roets
is for communities to be well-organized in the context of their communities, to have community institutions. That's very Tocquevillian. Alexis de Tocqueville, when he wrote Democracy in America, he said, well, this is what is going to make America great in the 1830s.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
538. South Africa: What the West Needs to Learn | Dr. Ernst Roets
And that's important because, so if you go to the Eastern parts, like the Drakensberg, you would find the cave paintings of the Koi in the sand, but they don't live there anymore because they were pushed out by groups coming in from the North who it has become a controversial term, although I don't know what the appropriate term then would be, by the Bantu people.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
538. South Africa: What the West Needs to Learn | Dr. Ernst Roets
So the word Bantu is a word that means people. It just means people.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
538. South Africa: What the West Needs to Learn | Dr. Ernst Roets
Exactly. So they've been known as the Bantu speaking groups, but today it's controversial to use that term. Why is that? because it's a term that refers to black people. And I think some people have used the term in the context of making derogatory remarks or something to that effect. I see, I see.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
538. South Africa: What the West Needs to Learn | Dr. Ernst Roets
So, but that's how they were known historically. And that's the Zulus and the Khozas and the different groups that we know in South Africa today. And they came down from the north and pushed out the Bushmen. They came down from the north and they pushed out the Bushmen.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
538. South Africa: What the West Needs to Learn | Dr. Ernst Roets
And they are fairly small also, which is one of the reasons when the bigger tribes came in from the north and there was conflict between these groups, they were pushed out. They were not able to take a stance against the Zulu people who are typically a strong nation.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
538. South Africa: What the West Needs to Learn | Dr. Ernst Roets
Yeah, very militaristic, yes.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
538. South Africa: What the West Needs to Learn | Dr. Ernst Roets
Exactly, yes.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
538. South Africa: What the West Needs to Learn | Dr. Ernst Roets
And also to service the ships, building ships, repairing ships, and so forth, yes. Right. And so that they started in 1652. Eventually, they had what we call the Freiburgers or the Freeburgers, which was that some of the they were employees of the Dutch East India Company.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
538. South Africa: What the West Needs to Learn | Dr. Ernst Roets
Some of them were then released from their contracts so that they could become farmers so that they could start developing an economy. And so there were some clashes with, for example, the Bushmen already there in the Cape between the Europeans and the Bushmen. But there was also examples of trading and cooperation and so forth.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
538. South Africa: What the West Needs to Learn | Dr. Ernst Roets
And so these things were very complex. We had the same dynamics in South Africa with the Afrikaner people and the English as well, yes. But just to get to that point, it's unfortunate that thinking about history, history tends to overestimate or overemphasize the conflict and downplay the cooperation, because conflict is more newsworthy, you could say.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
538. South Africa: What the West Needs to Learn | Dr. Ernst Roets
So when we think about history, we think about war and conflict, but we forget the cooperation part that's very important.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
538. South Africa: What the West Needs to Learn | Dr. Ernst Roets
And so that was about the time when the Zulu people were settling in what is today KwaZulu-Natal, and that calls up people in what is the Eastern Cape, closer to where the Afrikaners or the Proto-Afrikaners were.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
538. South Africa: What the West Needs to Learn | Dr. Ernst Roets
I'm not sure why they haven't done that before, but from what I know, there was conflict up north in Africa and there was nomadic tribes and some groups started- So they were pushed down as a consequence of intertribal warfare in their own lands.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
538. South Africa: What the West Needs to Learn | Dr. Ernst Roets
Yes, which is why we have some of the best farmers in South Africa today. So in terms of the history then, One major event was with the Napoleonic Wars. We sometimes joke, as the Afrikaner people, we say we skipped the Enlightenment because we have this joke. We say in Europe, they were reading Jean-Jacques Rousseau while we were hunting elephants.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
538. South Africa: What the West Needs to Learn | Dr. Ernst Roets
Yeah, but that's important because I think it, in a way, shaped our culture in a particular way, which is why the Afrikaner people at least are much more conservative, much more religious than many of our friends in Europe.
The Tucker Carlson Show
Ernst Roets: Attacks on Whites in South Africa, Attempts to Hide It, and Trump’s Plan to End It
the fall of the Berlin Wall, and the whole world's going to be liberal and democratic, including African countries.
The Tucker Carlson Show
Ernst Roets: Attacks on Whites in South Africa, Attempts to Hide It, and Trump’s Plan to End It
Yeah, well... I can tell you so many stories about this. For example, I was on your show a few years ago to talk about the farm murders and the extent to which we were attacked by American media as a result of that. I had someone from CNN come see me in my office in Pretoria. and to interview me about farm attacks. And the entire interview was about you.
The Tucker Carlson Show
Ernst Roets: Attacks on Whites in South Africa, Attempts to Hide It, and Trump’s Plan to End It
So he would put things to me and say, did you know Tucker Carlson said the following? Do you agree with this statement? And did you know that Donald Trump said this? And are you comfortable with this? And so I paused him at one stage and I said, what are we doing? I thought we had to talk about farm murders and what's happening in South Africa.
The Tucker Carlson Show
Ernst Roets: Attacks on Whites in South Africa, Attempts to Hide It, and Trump’s Plan to End It
But the only, so the argument was that because Trump made that comment about farm murders in 2018, It has to be a non-existing issue because Trump is a liar and everything he says is false. And the same with you, because you spoke about it, that means that the problem doesn't exist. And we have to prove that it doesn't exist in order to get to you.
The Tucker Carlson Show
Ernst Roets: Attacks on Whites in South Africa, Attempts to Hide It, and Trump’s Plan to End It
And Samuel Huntington actually cautioned against this in 1996, saying, you know, when he wrote The Clash of Civilizations, and he said, don't expect of African leaders and African liberation movements to suddenly become Western when you give them Western constitutions, because they are still African.
The Tucker Carlson Show
Ernst Roets: Attacks on Whites in South Africa, Attempts to Hide It, and Trump’s Plan to End It
Yeah, it's no, you're not getting killed, and if you are, you deserve it. Right. Because of a variety of things, because the attackers are poor, or because remember all the horrible things that white people have done in South Africa and outside of South Africa. So there's always a justification. And so another example...
The Tucker Carlson Show
Ernst Roets: Attacks on Whites in South Africa, Attempts to Hide It, and Trump’s Plan to End It
Just in 2018, again, after you spoke about this and after Trump spoke about this, the president of South Africa, Cyril Ramaphosa, came to America and he spoke at an event in New York. And he said there are no killings of farmers in South Africa. And he just flat out denied the existence of the problem. And he said this on an international platform. He said it's not happening. It's not true.
The Tucker Carlson Show
Ernst Roets: Attacks on Whites in South Africa, Attempts to Hide It, and Trump’s Plan to End It
And the worst of it all was how the media knew this was wrong, especially mainstream media in South Africa. They knew that it's not true. And so they immediately rushed to his defense, writing articles like, this is what he actually meant to say. And then they sort of justify what's happening.
The Tucker Carlson Show
Ernst Roets: Attacks on Whites in South Africa, Attempts to Hide It, and Trump’s Plan to End It
And so we really do sometimes feel that our biggest battle is not primarily against what the government is doing, but against how the media is reporting.
The Tucker Carlson Show
Ernst Roets: Attacks on Whites in South Africa, Attempts to Hide It, and Trump’s Plan to End It
Well, the explanation that is used in court cases, so by the way, this kill the boer chant was found in court not to be hate speech, according to South African law. It's not hate speech.
The Tucker Carlson Show
Ernst Roets: Attacks on Whites in South Africa, Attempts to Hide It, and Trump’s Plan to End It
So they will use, it's the democratic paradox, they will use democratic institutions to promote non-democratic ends, right? And that's what we see in South Africa. We have a parliament. We have a very liberal constitution. But if you read the constitution and you compare that to reality in South Africa, it's two completely different worlds.
The Tucker Carlson Show
Ernst Roets: Attacks on Whites in South Africa, Attempts to Hide It, and Trump’s Plan to End It
Well, maybe that's it.
The Tucker Carlson Show
Ernst Roets: Attacks on Whites in South Africa, Attempts to Hide It, and Trump’s Plan to End It
So the arguments that that is used or are used to defend this type of rhetoric would always be something like you need to see it in context. You need to remember the apartheid system. You need to remember what these people went through. They deserve to be killed. You need to remember that. Yeah, that's well. So the argument is that they're actually commemorating the historic struggle.
The Tucker Carlson Show
Ernst Roets: Attacks on Whites in South Africa, Attempts to Hide It, and Trump’s Plan to End It
And that's why they are still chanting this.
The Tucker Carlson Show
Ernst Roets: Attacks on Whites in South Africa, Attempts to Hide It, and Trump’s Plan to End It
Yeah, but the motive is also explained in the words. So they're trying to defend the words. It's a famous story of Chamberlain and Churchill. You know, when Chamberlain came back from meeting Hitler and he said, no, well, I met him and, you know, I think we're going to find peace. And then Churchill said, no, well, I read what he said and I believed him.
The Tucker Carlson Show
Ernst Roets: Attacks on Whites in South Africa, Attempts to Hide It, and Trump’s Plan to End It
And so you can just read what they're saying. If you read the policy documents of the ruling party, they say they want to convert South Africa into a communist society. They want to have a revolution in South Africa. And if you listen to the more radical parties to the left of them, they openly chant about killing white people. So they say these things out loud.
The Tucker Carlson Show
Ernst Roets: Attacks on Whites in South Africa, Attempts to Hide It, and Trump’s Plan to End It
And now they are obviously more to the fringe. You find the more extreme rhetoric in South Africa, but... But it's very alarming and how people just rush to their defense all the time.
The Tucker Carlson Show
Ernst Roets: Attacks on Whites in South Africa, Attempts to Hide It, and Trump’s Plan to End It
The de facto and the de jure reality in South Africa is irreconcilable. And so what has been happening in South Africa is, firstly, there was this major excitement about the new South African Elsa Mandela, the miracle story. Oprah spoke about this and Charlize Theron and everyone. Of course, yes. But the reality on ground level was in many ways the opposite.
The Tucker Carlson Show
Ernst Roets: Attacks on Whites in South Africa, Attempts to Hide It, and Trump’s Plan to End It
And this brings us back to the 90s. So during the 90s, it was again after the Cold War and the world and especially the West was high on ideology and this idea that, you know, the world will become liberal and everyone's going to become like us. And everyone in the world is just an American waiting to be liberated.
The Tucker Carlson Show
Ernst Roets: Attacks on Whites in South Africa, Attempts to Hide It, and Trump’s Plan to End It
And we just need to go and liberate them from their own traditional beliefs and so forth. And so it really is the case that America and many Western countries played a very significant role in creating the South Africa that we have today.
The Tucker Carlson Show
Ernst Roets: Attacks on Whites in South Africa, Attempts to Hide It, and Trump’s Plan to End It
And so we don't want other people to fix our problems on our behalf. We want to solve our own problems. But you can certainly make the case that the West has a moral responsibility towards the people in South Africa. Of course.
The Tucker Carlson Show
Ernst Roets: Attacks on Whites in South Africa, Attempts to Hide It, and Trump’s Plan to End It
Yeah, and so there's this false dichotomy in South Africa or with regard to South Africa that if you are against what's happening in South Africa now, that means you want the apartheid system. So you have a choice. And this one former judge recently said this, who's retired. He said that we have a choice in South Africa between…
The Tucker Carlson Show
Ernst Roets: Attacks on Whites in South Africa, Attempts to Hide It, and Trump’s Plan to End It
a moral system that is dysfunctional which is the current system or an immoral system that is a functional one which is the former system and so the problem is if you criticize what's happening in south africa now you get accused of wanting to return to the apartheid system but the truth is you can reject both you can say we don't want the apartheid system and we don't want what's happening in south africa at the moment we we want to govern ourselves we want freedom
The Tucker Carlson Show
Ernst Roets: Attacks on Whites in South Africa, Attempts to Hide It, and Trump’s Plan to End It
But it seems that a lot of people are incapable of making that conclusion or leaving any room for saying that both these systems are wrong and we need a better system, a system that is much more decentralized, a system in which the various nations who live in South Africa, because South Africa is very big, it's almost as big as Europe, the various nations living in South Africa should just govern themselves.
The Tucker Carlson Show
Ernst Roets: Attacks on Whites in South Africa, Attempts to Hide It, and Trump’s Plan to End It
Gradually. So they started, for example, with these BEE, as they call it. It's Black Economic Empowerment, which of course has nothing to do with economic empowerment. They started with that in 1996. And so they actually said initially in the 90s that that's the ruling party's strategy. They still call it that, the National Democratic Revolution strategy.
The Tucker Carlson Show
Ernst Roets: Attacks on Whites in South Africa, Attempts to Hide It, and Trump’s Plan to End It
And that's not what's happening in South Africa. And I think it's a worthy cause to pursue.
The Tucker Carlson Show
Ernst Roets: Attacks on Whites in South Africa, Attempts to Hide It, and Trump’s Plan to End It
Yeah, the Khoi and the San, as they are also called. Thank you.
The Tucker Carlson Show
Ernst Roets: Attacks on Whites in South Africa, Attempts to Hide It, and Trump’s Plan to End It
So just, can I tell you a story from our history? I hope you will. Yes. Some people call it the origin story of the Afrikaner people. And it explains a lot about who we are today. So we were settled in the Cape, the Proto-Africaners, who were still the Dutch, the French, and the Germans. We were then colonized the Cape in, I think, 1810 by the British. It was during the Napoleonic Wars.
The Tucker Carlson Show
Ernst Roets: Attacks on Whites in South Africa, Attempts to Hide It, and Trump’s Plan to End It
1652. Yeah, that's 150 years before the Declaration of Independence or something like that. Wow. A long time ago. Yeah, so my great-great-great-grandfather, Nikolaus Roots, who was the first Roots who came to South Africa, came more or less the time when George Washington was a teenager. So he was eight years older than George Washington.
The Tucker Carlson Show
Ernst Roets: Attacks on Whites in South Africa, Attempts to Hide It, and Trump’s Plan to End It
So my family has been in Africa since, you could say, since George Washington, since the time of George Washington. Since before the United States was a country. Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
The Tucker Carlson Show
Ernst Roets: Attacks on Whites in South Africa, Attempts to Hide It, and Trump’s Plan to End It
No. No, no. I don't really want one. And do most Afrikaners have other passports? No, most don't. But this goes to the story I want to tell you. So we were colonized by the British. And you can call them the proto-Afrikaners then said, you know, we don't want to be governed by anyone else. We want to govern ourselves. And so they opted to move into the interior of South Africa.
The Tucker Carlson Show
Ernst Roets: Attacks on Whites in South Africa, Attempts to Hide It, and Trump’s Plan to End It
which was called the Great Track. And they didn't know what they would expect. They said they reject slavery. They want to foster good relations with local tribes, which they did. There were many treaties signed and agreements and so forth. And they did not hold slaves. There was slavery in the Cape Colony before that. But when the Great Track, that was around the time of the abolition of slavery.
The Tucker Carlson Show
Ernst Roets: Attacks on Whites in South Africa, Attempts to Hide It, and Trump’s Plan to End It
which is about using democracy to promote socialist ends. And so the revolution, they say, goes in two phases. The first phase is present yourself as being liberal and democratic and get support, especially international support and local, and then use multi-party democracy as a way of of promoting the goals of taking the country down the road to socialism.
The Tucker Carlson Show
Ernst Roets: Attacks on Whites in South Africa, Attempts to Hide It, and Trump’s Plan to End It
And they also rejected slavery. They explicitly said so. Yes. So they then went into the interior, and the leader of the Great Track was a guy called Pitratif, who went to negotiate with the Zulu king, Dangan. And so he said, what can we do to buy land from you for our people to live? The agreement was they had to return cattle that was stolen by another tribe with a king called Sikonjela.
The Tucker Carlson Show
Ernst Roets: Attacks on Whites in South Africa, Attempts to Hide It, and Trump’s Plan to End It
So they went, they retrieved the cattle, they brought it to the Zulu King. The Zulu King Dungan, King Dungan said to them that we have to celebrate, so leave your weapons outside the lager, come inside and we'll have a celebration. During the celebration, at one stage, he chanted , which means kill the wizards.
The Tucker Carlson Show
Ernst Roets: Attacks on Whites in South Africa, Attempts to Hide It, and Trump’s Plan to End It
So they took Retief and his commando, his group, to a nearby hill, and they slaughtered him. They slaughtered him last because they wanted him to see, they wanted to make sure that he sees his people and his son murdered. A few months later, before, so after that, they went on an extermination mission. They killed women and children in the lagers and so forth. A few months later.
The Tucker Carlson Show
Ernst Roets: Attacks on Whites in South Africa, Attempts to Hide It, and Trump’s Plan to End It
Yes, correct, yes. And so a few months later, his body was found with the treaty on which the Zulu king signed, giving them some land. So they then initiated a punishment commando, a group of 300 to 400 men. to counterattack the Zulus, which eventually led to the Battle of Blood River, one of the most significant battles in our history, where they found themselves completely surrounded.
The Tucker Carlson Show
Ernst Roets: Attacks on Whites in South Africa, Attempts to Hide It, and Trump’s Plan to End It
They were about, let's say, 400. But 400 Boers. Yes. Surrounded by 12,000 Zulus. And so they had this wagon. And my great-great-great-great-grandfather was in that lager, and he was the religious leader. His name is Sarel Saliha. So Saros Elias- And what was their religion? Christian. Dutch Reformed? Dutch Reformed, yes. So he said to them, listen, we need to make a vow to God.
The Tucker Carlson Show
Ernst Roets: Attacks on Whites in South Africa, Attempts to Hide It, and Trump’s Plan to End It
And so he wrote a vow, which they all made. And the vow said that we're standing here in front of the God in heaven and earth, to make a vow to him that if he protects us in the battle that lies ahead, we will commemorate this day in the years to come as a day of thanksgiving and a Sabbath.
The Tucker Carlson Show
Ernst Roets: Attacks on Whites in South Africa, Attempts to Hide It, and Trump’s Plan to End It
And we will also tell our children this story and we will build a church and we will make sure that the honor of the victory goes to God and not to us. So they made this vow and the battle took place. And the result was that not one of the Afrikaners were killed. 3,000 Zulus died in that battle. Not one was killed? Yes. Yeah.
The Tucker Carlson Show
Ernst Roets: Attacks on Whites in South Africa, Attempts to Hide It, and Trump’s Plan to End It
And so the reason why I'm telling this story is not to point to the Zulu people. We have good relations with the Zulu and we've worked with them. This was, of course, the one major battle, but we've had good relations with them over the years. But it says something about, firstly, why the Afrikaner people are so patriotic.
The Tucker Carlson Show
Ernst Roets: Attacks on Whites in South Africa, Attempts to Hide It, and Trump’s Plan to End It
It says something about why we are so attached to African soil and why we are still religious. We're a very religious community. We have some problems in terms of belief and so forth. But broadly speaking, the Afrikaners are, compared to Europe and compared to some parts of America, still a very religious people.
The Tucker Carlson Show
Ernst Roets: Attacks on Whites in South Africa, Attempts to Hide It, and Trump’s Plan to End It
And it also says something about why we are so attached to the country and why we don't want to leave. We want to stay there because our ancestors have been there for hundreds of years. And we fought and died for our space there. And we've gotten used to it to a certain extent. What's the only country that you have, isn't it? Exactly. We don't have any other country.
The Tucker Carlson Show
Ernst Roets: Attacks on Whites in South Africa, Attempts to Hide It, and Trump’s Plan to End It
We can't go back to England anymore. We're not Dutch anymore. There's a slogan in South Africa that says, go back to Holland. But, I mean, I've been to Holland. I've been to Amsterdam. It's a beautiful city, but I don't feel like I'm at home when I go there. It's a beautiful foreign city that I'm attending. We became a people in Africa, which is why we are called the Afrikaners.
The Tucker Carlson Show
Ernst Roets: Attacks on Whites in South Africa, Attempts to Hide It, and Trump’s Plan to End It
And so recently they even went as far as publishing a document saying, we are now ready for the second phase of the revolution. We now have power. We have control of the state. We now need to use this to become much more aggressive in our socialist policies. And we're seeing this in a plethora of new laws all of a sudden in South Africa.
The Tucker Carlson Show
Ernst Roets: Attacks on Whites in South Africa, Attempts to Hide It, and Trump’s Plan to End It
We named ourselves after the continent, and our language, Afrikaans, is named after the continent.
The Tucker Carlson Show
Ernst Roets: Attacks on Whites in South Africa, Attempts to Hide It, and Trump’s Plan to End It
Yeah, well, who came from the north of Africa, yes, from where Cameroon is and so forth, who came down firstly towards the east of Africa and then along the Great Lakes, eventually ending in South Africa, yes.
The Tucker Carlson Show
Ernst Roets: Attacks on Whites in South Africa, Attempts to Hide It, and Trump’s Plan to End It
Well, absolutely. So on my mother's side, I descend from the British. My great-grandfather fought in the First World War for the British. And so in many ways, culturally, we've become very close to the British because of the influence over the years. And I don't think there's friction today between the Afrikaners and the British, but it certainly is the case.
The Tucker Carlson Show
Ernst Roets: Attacks on Whites in South Africa, Attempts to Hide It, and Trump’s Plan to End It
I mean, the concentration camps were horrible. I recently read the Gulag Archipelago and Solzhenitsyn writes in there that the first concentration camps were... were invented by the Soviets, but that's actually wrong. The first concentration camps that we know of, at least this type of concentration camps, were during the Anglo-Boer War, where about 30,000 women and children died.
The Tucker Carlson Show
Ernst Roets: Attacks on Whites in South Africa, Attempts to Hide It, and Trump’s Plan to End It
But there was a lot of... The great thing about the Anglo-Boer War was that it was in many ways a first... for the world. It was, some people call it the first international propaganda war because it was in a time when newspapers became popular. So there was this propaganda war in Europe with regard to the Boers or the Boer War with a lot of people saying the Boers are Boerish.
The Tucker Carlson Show
Ernst Roets: Attacks on Whites in South Africa, Attempts to Hide It, and Trump’s Plan to End It
That's where the word comes from. Evidently, if someone told me that's where the word Boerish comes from, it's to be sort of, you know, very old style and not very sophisticated. Rough, yeah. Yeah, rough around the edges. And so there was a lot of propaganda like the Boers being compared to wild hogs and things like that. But that's okay.
The Tucker Carlson Show
Ernst Roets: Attacks on Whites in South Africa, Attempts to Hide It, and Trump’s Plan to End It
The word Boer was actually used for a long time as an insult, almost like Jew, like calling someone a Jew. It's like, oh, you're a Boer, a typical Boer. But I mean, we're very proud of that word. It's something that we take pride in. Yeah. It's in many ways, there's some debate about the difference between Boer and Afrikaner, but it's broadly speaking synonymous.
The Tucker Carlson Show
Ernst Roets: Attacks on Whites in South Africa, Attempts to Hide It, and Trump’s Plan to End It
which I think it's gotten to the point where it's just not possible to maintain the view that people have had of South Africa for the last few decades and look at what's currently happening in South Africa. It's two completely different worlds. And hopefully, or happily at least, a lot of people are starting to wake up to this.
The Tucker Carlson Show
Ernst Roets: Attacks on Whites in South Africa, Attempts to Hide It, and Trump’s Plan to End It
But I mean, we're very proud of our history in South Africa, and we've become a very sophisticated community with an immense treasure chest of literature, of poetry, of philosophy, all of it in our own language that we did over the last, especially the last hundred years, which of course is under threat now.
The Tucker Carlson Show
Ernst Roets: Attacks on Whites in South Africa, Attempts to Hide It, and Trump’s Plan to End It
No, it descends from Dutch. Yes. And so if you spend some time as an Afrikaans person with some Dutch friends, eventually you start to follow, but it's not Dutch anymore. There's been influences by other languages and so forth. So there are people who speak it all over the world, but that's only because people who have left from, so many people have left from South Africa.
The Tucker Carlson Show
Ernst Roets: Attacks on Whites in South Africa, Attempts to Hide It, and Trump’s Plan to End It
Some estimates say it's about a million people, white people who have left South Africa over the last few decades. Yeah.
The Tucker Carlson Show
Ernst Roets: Attacks on Whites in South Africa, Attempts to Hide It, and Trump’s Plan to End It
So it's more or less about 5 million who are left. The Afrikaner community is about 2.7 million. And the total population is about 60, just over 60 million.
The Tucker Carlson Show
Ernst Roets: Attacks on Whites in South Africa, Attempts to Hide It, and Trump’s Plan to End It
So Jan Smuts, the famous Boer general who worked with Churchill also famously said that South Africa is a country where the best never happens and the worst never happens. And so we sort of believe that and we hope that the worst outcome is an unrealistic outcome. We do know that the most important thing that we need to do now is to be very well organized in terms of our own communities.
The Tucker Carlson Show
Ernst Roets: Attacks on Whites in South Africa, Attempts to Hide It, and Trump’s Plan to End It
to be very well connected to each other. You know, there's this whole debate about the individual and the community in philosophy. And we've realized that if you're just an individual, you are completely helpless. If you're not part of a community, if you're not given meaning by the community of which you are a member, you're completely helpless against the Leviathan, the state.
The Tucker Carlson Show
Ernst Roets: Attacks on Whites in South Africa, Attempts to Hide It, and Trump’s Plan to End It
So we need to be well-organized. We need to be armed. We need to have well-functioning communities who look after each other, look after the poor, do all the things that the government's supposed to be doing, but also look after our safety. So we drive patrols at night. We're involved with... Tens of thousands of volunteers involved with patrols looking after our own safety and so forth.
The Tucker Carlson Show
Ernst Roets: Attacks on Whites in South Africa, Attempts to Hide It, and Trump’s Plan to End It
But I think the bigger question here is the future of South Africa. And this is a controversial thing to say, but it's so obvious that it's not sustainable. It's not going to work and it's just getting worse. So the only possible solution is not simply to say we need a different party in power because the underlying foundations is problematic.
The Tucker Carlson Show
Ernst Roets: Attacks on Whites in South Africa, Attempts to Hide It, and Trump’s Plan to End It
The only possible solution is to move toward a system with subsidiary authorities, which could imply something like a republic for the Afrikaner people. It could imply a kingdom for the Zulu people. It could imply different types of authority depending on the community. But South Africa is a country made up of a long list of minorities.
The Tucker Carlson Show
Ernst Roets: Attacks on Whites in South Africa, Attempts to Hide It, and Trump’s Plan to End It
Unless, if you look at it from a racial perspective, you can say there's a black minority, a black majority. But the black majority also consists of a variety, as you mentioned, a variety of nations and tribes and so forth. Plus massive immigration into your country. Yeah, yeah. It's a very serious problem. Yeah, we virtually don't have borders in South Africa.
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Ernst Roets: Attacks on Whites in South Africa, Attempts to Hide It, and Trump’s Plan to End It
Yeah, xenophobic violence. Every now and then there's this upsurge in violence against foreigners. So they get accused. What typically happens is people come in from the north or the north of South Africa, like Malawi, Zimbabwe and so forth, Zambia and so forth. And then they work and they accept jobs for lower wages. And a lot of them work really hard.
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Ernst Roets: Attacks on Whites in South Africa, Attempts to Hide It, and Trump’s Plan to End It
So that leads to friction because there's very high unemployment in South Africa already. And so it leads to friction among the local communities. And then every now and then we have this upsurge in very, very brutal xenophobic violence. So yes, the border is virtually non-existent, the border to the north of South Africa.
The Tucker Carlson Show
Ernst Roets: Attacks on Whites in South Africa, Attempts to Hide It, and Trump’s Plan to End It
Well, it's interesting that you know this. Yes. So there's a section in the South African Constitution, Section 235, that provides for self-determination for communities. Now, there's some ambiguity in terms of how to interpret that section, but there is some constitutional provision for that.
The Tucker Carlson Show
Ernst Roets: Attacks on Whites in South Africa, Attempts to Hide It, and Trump’s Plan to End It
And so during the 90s, the negotiations for a new South Africa, the more conservative groups who were white and black, who were arguing for self-determination were made fun of by the ruling party at the time, the National Party and the ANC, of course, and also some Westerners. This is just backwards. This idea of governing yourself is somehow an old ancient thing that we should move away from.
The Tucker Carlson Show
Ernst Roets: Attacks on Whites in South Africa, Attempts to Hide It, and Trump’s Plan to End It
And part of the problem, part of the reason why they were made fun of is the question is, how do you do that practically? And the only way to practically do that is to have areas where people live concentrated, where people form a de facto majority.
The Tucker Carlson Show
Ernst Roets: Attacks on Whites in South Africa, Attempts to Hide It, and Trump’s Plan to End It
And there are such areas like, for example, when you talk about the Zulus and so forth, the Afrikaner people are pretty much dispersed, although there are some areas where we live more concentrated. Right. But there's, for example, there are some initiatives to get Afrikaners to move closer together.
The Tucker Carlson Show
Ernst Roets: Attacks on Whites in South Africa, Attempts to Hide It, and Trump’s Plan to End It
And I think that's a solution that we need to really focus on is getting the Afrikaners to move closer together. So they're clustered in Pretoria was my understanding. The majority, yes. Pretoria and then the Western Cape and the south of the country. And then there's this Orania initiative in the Northern Cape. So tell us about that. What is Orania? So Orania is a cultural community.
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Ernst Roets: Attacks on Whites in South Africa, Attempts to Hide It, and Trump’s Plan to End It
It's an Afrikaner cultural community. It's fairly small. It's about 3000 people, but it's growing rapidly. It's growing by about 12 to 15% per year. And the idea is it's a culture, it's privately owned. It's a community where the Africana culture can survive and flourish. And it has been growing at quite a pace, even though it's from a small base.
The Tucker Carlson Show
Ernst Roets: Attacks on Whites in South Africa, Attempts to Hide It, and Trump’s Plan to End It
But the idea is to say this is an area where we are the majority and we make our own decisions. We make our own laws. We govern ourselves. We make our own decisions in terms of what happens with our tax money, what happens with our streets, what type of monuments.
The Tucker Carlson Show
Ernst Roets: Attacks on Whites in South Africa, Attempts to Hide It, and Trump’s Plan to End It
Well, literally, so I have children and they are taught in schools and the government prescribes what children should learn in history. And so the official version is he went to prison because he was a good leader and the government didn't like that. I should say that he certainly was the best that the ANC has ever had to offer.
The Tucker Carlson Show
Ernst Roets: Attacks on Whites in South Africa, Attempts to Hide It, and Trump’s Plan to End It
Yeah, it's bizarre the extent to which urania has been attacked, especially in the international media. So I spoke with a friend in Europe recently who said to me, I've only read negative things about urania, but that's why I like it. Because I know who's writing it.
The Tucker Carlson Show
Ernst Roets: Attacks on Whites in South Africa, Attempts to Hide It, and Trump’s Plan to End It
You know what I mean? Yeah. So in South Africa, there are many cultural communities like Zulu communities. Let's say there are many black cultural communities. And when they are reported on by the media, they would say this Zulu cultural community, so-and-so, or this Xhosa cultural community is doing this. But when it's Orania, they say it's a whites-only enclave.
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Ernst Roets: Attacks on Whites in South Africa, Attempts to Hide It, and Trump’s Plan to End It
That's the term they use, even though it's a cultural community.
The Tucker Carlson Show
Ernst Roets: Attacks on Whites in South Africa, Attempts to Hide It, and Trump’s Plan to End It
What is that? I think it's underpinned by oikophobia, this idea of just hating your own people and wanting your own people to.
The Tucker Carlson Show
Ernst Roets: Attacks on Whites in South Africa, Attempts to Hide It, and Trump’s Plan to End It
I honestly think it's underpinned by an enormous sense of guilt within Western society or the Western world, not knowing how to make sense of the Second World War. And being influenced over decades and centuries by enlightened philosophy that talks about how you are the problem and how you should have a sense of guilt for who you are. And the idea that community and identity is a bad thing.
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Ernst Roets: Attacks on Whites in South Africa, Attempts to Hide It, and Trump’s Plan to End It
But it's not a bad thing if it's someone else.
The Tucker Carlson Show
Ernst Roets: Attacks on Whites in South Africa, Attempts to Hide It, and Trump’s Plan to End It
But the reason why he went to prison is because they started Mkonto Isiswe, which was the military wing of the ANC. which became involved with military actions in South Africa with an attempt to overthrow the government. And they actually, and this is, I'm quoting from the ANC's own policy documents that's on their own website.
The Tucker Carlson Show
Ernst Roets: Attacks on Whites in South Africa, Attempts to Hide It, and Trump’s Plan to End It
I think some part of this oikophobia – I honestly think enlightenment philosophy has played a big role in this. I think the influence of ideas about power structures and all this stuff that's coming from America. It used to come from Europe.
The Tucker Carlson Show
Ernst Roets: Attacks on Whites in South Africa, Attempts to Hide It, and Trump’s Plan to End It
I don't understand at all, actually. I think, so, Alasdair MacIntyre has a, has a, an explanation of how to make sense of what, how, how we, how we derailed in trying to make sense of the second world war. I mean, obviously, you know, Hitler was evil and all of that.
The Tucker Carlson Show
Ernst Roets: Attacks on Whites in South Africa, Attempts to Hide It, and Trump’s Plan to End It
I mean, no one disagrees with that, obviously, but so, so the wrong lesson from the second world war is that nationalism is evil or a sense of pride in your identity is evil. And there are a lot of people who would really like us to believe this, that we need to abolish communal identities. Um, McIntyre's line only when they're white, Yes, yes. Yeah, of course.
The Tucker Carlson Show
Ernst Roets: Attacks on Whites in South Africa, Attempts to Hide It, and Trump’s Plan to End It
And what went wrong with the Second World War was that Hitler was trying to pursue this good at the expense of all other goods. He was detaching this one thing from everything else. And you cannot do that without committing evil and inflicting evil. And so I think it's a bizarre situation where we are in currently.
The Tucker Carlson Show
Ernst Roets: Attacks on Whites in South Africa, Attempts to Hide It, and Trump’s Plan to End It
Yeah, of course. Well, so in South Africa, and this is part of the bizarre part of it, is the ruling party in South Africa, they would write in their own policy documents. They say our ideology is a blend of race, nationalism, and socialism. That's literally what Nazi means. Now, I'm not saying they're Nazis, but in some sense, they're calling themselves Nazis.
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Ernst Roets: Attacks on Whites in South Africa, Attempts to Hide It, and Trump’s Plan to End It
If they say we promote a combination of race, nationalism and socialism.
The Tucker Carlson Show
Ernst Roets: Attacks on Whites in South Africa, Attempts to Hide It, and Trump’s Plan to End It
So they had this operation when they started, which was used in the Rivonia trial against Nelson Mandela. It was a strategy called Operation Mayibuyeh. And the slogan of this operation was, shamelessly we shall attack the weak and shamelessly we shall flee from the strong. So those were the circumstances in the 1960s.
The Tucker Carlson Show
Ernst Roets: Attacks on Whites in South Africa, Attempts to Hide It, and Trump’s Plan to End It
I think one part of it is something that you've said before, which is affluence. People in the Western world have become very affluent, and unfortunately, as a result of that –
The Tucker Carlson Show
Ernst Roets: Attacks on Whites in South Africa, Attempts to Hide It, and Trump’s Plan to End It
very self-centered and in many ways they've become disconnected from their communities disconnected from from their traditions there's no doubt about that but i mean i would you know just spend a lot of time in the in the gulf um in the persian gulf
The Tucker Carlson Show
Ernst Roets: Attacks on Whites in South Africa, Attempts to Hide It, and Trump’s Plan to End It
I'd like to believe... And I hope that I'm right, that it's a minority within the Western world that really believes this stuff. I think. But they have significant power and influence. Boy, do they. They are the editors of newspapers. They are the prime ministers. They are professors at universities and so forth. And those are the people who's promoting this type of idea.
The Tucker Carlson Show
Ernst Roets: Attacks on Whites in South Africa, Attempts to Hide It, and Trump’s Plan to End It
When I think most hardworking, ordinary people don't fall for this.
The Tucker Carlson Show
Ernst Roets: Attacks on Whites in South Africa, Attempts to Hide It, and Trump’s Plan to End It
Do you feel that? Yeah. Yes. So I don't know how much of what is in his biography by Isaacson is true, but it does seem from his biography that he's had some bad experiences growing up in South Africa, which is unfortunate. And we were, we're still not sure quite how attached he still is to South Africa as a country, but looking at his ex and his comments, it's very clear that he's interested.
The Tucker Carlson Show
Ernst Roets: Attacks on Whites in South Africa, Attempts to Hide It, and Trump’s Plan to End It
And the strange thing is, even though some people are very angry with him for speaking about South Africa, the only thing that he's really doing is he's picking up a mirror and he's saying, look at what's happening in South Africa. And he's retweeting videos from rallies in South Africa. Exactly. He's literally just saying to people, look at this stuff that's happening in South Africa.
The Tucker Carlson Show
Ernst Roets: Attacks on Whites in South Africa, Attempts to Hide It, and Trump’s Plan to End It
Well, a lot of people, I think, I can speak for a lot of people in saying that we're really, really grateful for what Elon Musk is doing to shed light on what is happening in South Africa.
The Tucker Carlson Show
Ernst Roets: Attacks on Whites in South Africa, Attempts to Hide It, and Trump’s Plan to End It
So that was the – it was an attempt at an armed uprising. Now, we can talk about everything that was wrong with the previous political system in South Africa. There was a lot wrong. But it's simply not the case that he went to prison for being a good leader.
The Tucker Carlson Show
Ernst Roets: Attacks on Whites in South Africa, Attempts to Hide It, and Trump’s Plan to End It
Jan Smits was also very big, who became this Boer general who was an advisor to Churchill.
The Tucker Carlson Show
Ernst Roets: Attacks on Whites in South Africa, Attempts to Hide It, and Trump’s Plan to End It
Yeah, it's, it's crazy. It really is. And, and I have to say the last few months has been quite a ride in terms of what we, you know, the, the executive order signed by president Trump and statements coming from the U S to tell us about that executive order, if you don't mind. So the executive order is a very strong reprimanding of what the South African government is doing.
The Tucker Carlson Show
Ernst Roets: Attacks on Whites in South Africa, Attempts to Hide It, and Trump’s Plan to End It
It says that the South African government is, or as Trump said, is treating certain sections of society very badly. Sorry, that's the Trumpiest thing ever said. And the U.S. will not stand for this. And so it boils down to sanctions in an important way. Which is not, on one part of it says that they will grant refugee status to Afrikaners if they want to go to the US.
The Tucker Carlson Show
Ernst Roets: Attacks on Whites in South Africa, Attempts to Hide It, and Trump’s Plan to End It
Which I don't think, in all fairness, we're really grateful for the public stance taken by the US. And in a certain sense, they haven't gone far enough. But in a certain sense, I don't think the granting of refugee status is much of a solution. Some people will take that up. But that's why I told you the story of the Battle of Blood River and the vow.
The Tucker Carlson Show
Ernst Roets: Attacks on Whites in South Africa, Attempts to Hide It, and Trump’s Plan to End It
We are culturally very, very attached to South Africa.
The Tucker Carlson Show
Ernst Roets: Attacks on Whites in South Africa, Attempts to Hide It, and Trump’s Plan to End It
I think I'm ninth generation.
The Tucker Carlson Show
Ernst Roets: Attacks on Whites in South Africa, Attempts to Hide It, and Trump’s Plan to End It
Yeah.
The Tucker Carlson Show
Ernst Roets: Attacks on Whites in South Africa, Attempts to Hide It, and Trump’s Plan to End It
So I think what a better response from the U.S. could be is to take a firm stance against what is happening in terms of what the South African government is doing, but then to say how can the U.S. support minority groups in South Africa who are really working for some form of self-determination. I think America –
The Tucker Carlson Show
Ernst Roets: Attacks on Whites in South Africa, Attempts to Hide It, and Trump’s Plan to End It
should recognize that it does have part in the problem in terms of what happened historically.
The Tucker Carlson Show
Ernst Roets: Attacks on Whites in South Africa, Attempts to Hide It, and Trump’s Plan to End It
Yes. And therefore, it's reasonable and I think it's fair. And I'm hesitant to say this because I'm not an American, but I think it's reasonable to say that America has some form of a moral responsibility, not to fix South Africa, but at least to try to rework this mess that has been created because it was involved in creating this mess.
The Tucker Carlson Show
Ernst Roets: Attacks on Whites in South Africa, Attempts to Hide It, and Trump’s Plan to End It
Yeah. And the solution, I would say the most sustainable solution is to help such communities to govern themselves, to have self-determination. And it's not only, obviously, it would be in our interest, but I think it's also in the interest of the West and of America.
The Tucker Carlson Show
Ernst Roets: Attacks on Whites in South Africa, Attempts to Hide It, and Trump’s Plan to End It
Yeah, this narrative has become this massive stream that is turned into rapids on a river that just pulls everyone along. And this narrative just says if you're white, then there's inherently something wrong with you.
The Tucker Carlson Show
Ernst Roets: Attacks on Whites in South Africa, Attempts to Hide It, and Trump’s Plan to End It
So in 1985, the ANC had a conference in Kabwe in Zambia, and they took a formal decision. that in their so-called military operations, they would not differentiate between hard and soft targets. So it was officially a policy that says we can kill innocent people. And a lot of innocent people died in the political violence in the run-up to 1994.
The Tucker Carlson Show
Ernst Roets: Attacks on Whites in South Africa, Attempts to Hide It, and Trump’s Plan to End It
Yeah, well, I can guarantee... Tell me how I'm wrong. No. Well, I can guarantee you that when I get back home, I'm going to be in a lot of trouble for this interview.
The Tucker Carlson Show
Ernst Roets: Attacks on Whites in South Africa, Attempts to Hide It, and Trump’s Plan to End It
Yeah, it's built and it's a very shining house of cards and it's very proud of its accomplishments, but it's not sustainable. So South Africa has been a victim of Western imperialism in many ways, ideologically currently, ideological imperialism, but also… And this is interesting. The ANC that's governing South Africa today was founded just after the unionization of South Africa in 1910.
The Tucker Carlson Show
Ernst Roets: Attacks on Whites in South Africa, Attempts to Hide It, and Trump’s Plan to End It
And they said that this was one of the major triggers that sparked us to start this movement. And the unionization was after the Boer War, before the union. South Africa was a variety of different republics and colonies governing themselves. And unionization effectively meant that all of these different subsidiary authorities were combined into one big South Africa.
The Tucker Carlson Show
Ernst Roets: Attacks on Whites in South Africa, Attempts to Hide It, and Trump’s Plan to End It
As we know it today, the borders of South Africa were actually drawn pretty much by the British in 1910. And the ANC were vehemently opposed.
The Tucker Carlson Show
Ernst Roets: Attacks on Whites in South Africa, Attempts to Hide It, and Trump’s Plan to End It
You see this when you have these completely straight borders. You know, that's artificial. And so the borders we have for South Africa today was a product of Western imperialism. And now those in power would very much like to maintain these borders because they have control. And so if we are truly anti-colonialism and anti-imperialist, we should return to a position where people govern themselves.
The Tucker Carlson Show
Ernst Roets: Attacks on Whites in South Africa, Attempts to Hide It, and Trump’s Plan to End It
And 90% of the people who died were black South Africans.
The Tucker Carlson Show
Ernst Roets: Attacks on Whites in South Africa, Attempts to Hide It, and Trump’s Plan to End It
And we have to ask them nicely to make certain concessions.
The Tucker Carlson Show
Ernst Roets: Attacks on Whites in South Africa, Attempts to Hide It, and Trump’s Plan to End It
Well, I think the plan is to firstly to be well-organized communities, to have a very strong sense of community, a sense of pride in who we are, to remain Christian and have a strong faith, strong family ties and so forth. That's where it starts. And then other than that, the second step, you might say, the plan is to… to just create certain realities on ground level.
The Tucker Carlson Show
Ernst Roets: Attacks on Whites in South Africa, Attempts to Hide It, and Trump’s Plan to End It
It was... But non-combatants, women, children. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
The Tucker Carlson Show
Ernst Roets: Attacks on Whites in South Africa, Attempts to Hide It, and Trump’s Plan to End It
So it's one thing to say, you know, we want more authority or more self-determination, but you have to, in a sense, create that so that what you have created can be recognized. There's no point in saying, well, you guys can have your own place, but that place doesn't exist. So I think what the Afrikaner people need to do is, to a large extent, build their own self-determination.
The Tucker Carlson Show
Ernst Roets: Attacks on Whites in South Africa, Attempts to Hide It, and Trump’s Plan to End It
And I think that's what we intend to do But it would help a lot if we can get recognition for this pursuit as a legitimate pursuit.
The Tucker Carlson Show
Ernst Roets: Attacks on Whites in South Africa, Attempts to Hide It, and Trump’s Plan to End It
No. So you mentioned electricity. In Johannesburg, the mayor just a few days ago announced that people should just wait seven days and then they will have water. So it's not just an electricity problem. There's a water problem. There's a water problem. You're going to have a food problem at some point. Well, if the farmers are targeted, yes. So there are many reasons why...
The Tucker Carlson Show
Ernst Roets: Attacks on Whites in South Africa, Attempts to Hide It, and Trump’s Plan to End It
It's not working and why it won't work. And well, everything you can think of points to that direction. One is just the data. As I said, like you can look at the levels of how crime is increasing, how unemployment is increasing, how government service delivery is increasingly failing, everything, everything. I honestly, how health is deteriorating, everything except tax collection.
The Tucker Carlson Show
Ernst Roets: Attacks on Whites in South Africa, Attempts to Hide It, and Trump’s Plan to End It
That's one aspect of it. Another aspect of it is just the extent to which people in South Africa are turning their back on politics. There's this political vacuum in South Africa, and you can see it, for example, with the extent to which people have stopped voting, how voters' turnout has dropped significantly in elections. People just don't interest it. They vote reluctantly, those who do.
The Tucker Carlson Show
Ernst Roets: Attacks on Whites in South Africa, Attempts to Hide It, and Trump’s Plan to End It
So that's one aspect. Interesting. Why do you think that? Because they feel hopeless? Because they feel the political establishment is completely disconnected. It doesn't resonate with them. People vote for parties even though they don't really like them, but they think this is of all the parties, I don't like any of them, but this one is the least bad, so I'll vote for that one.
The Tucker Carlson Show
Ernst Roets: Attacks on Whites in South Africa, Attempts to Hide It, and Trump’s Plan to End It
So there's a complete disconnect between the politicians or the political elite in South Africa, even the opposition parties and the people. And so there's this political vacuum that has developed. And this vacuum is filled, as my friend Aaron Stansel in South Africa says, either by the good guys or the bad guys. It's filled by the bad guys in terms of organized crime.
The Tucker Carlson Show
Ernst Roets: Attacks on Whites in South Africa, Attempts to Hide It, and Trump’s Plan to End It
So we have these mafias and gangs coming to the fore with significant power to such an extent that the government is afraid of them.
The Tucker Carlson Show
Ernst Roets: Attacks on Whites in South Africa, Attempts to Hide It, and Trump’s Plan to End It
Yeah, well, yeah, I think it is.
The Tucker Carlson Show
Ernst Roets: Attacks on Whites in South Africa, Attempts to Hide It, and Trump’s Plan to End It
It's incredible. So we have a construction mafia, for example. If you build a shopping center, the construction mafia turns up and they tell you, you need to employ our people or else we're going to sabotage your building and stuff like that. And it's a regular thing. And you can't fight them. No, you can't. You can't fight them.
The Tucker Carlson Show
Ernst Roets: Attacks on Whites in South Africa, Attempts to Hide It, and Trump’s Plan to End It
But the vacuum can be filled by the good guys, and that's well-organized communities who take control of what is important to them. And so the future is very, and that's what analysts and scenario analysts and so forth have been saying, that the future is one of deterioration, where you will have communities who will be much worse off than they are today because of the bad guys filling the void.
The Tucker Carlson Show
Ernst Roets: Attacks on Whites in South Africa, Attempts to Hide It, and Trump’s Plan to End It
And you might have flourishing communities because of good guys filling the void. And so that's another reason. But I think the most important fundamental underlying reason why it's not sustainable is it's a political system that is detached from the reality in South Africa. The reality is the distance from Cape Town, the south to the north of South Africa is the distance from Rome to London.
The Tucker Carlson Show
Ernst Roets: Attacks on Whites in South Africa, Attempts to Hide It, and Trump’s Plan to End It
So it's a big country.
The Tucker Carlson Show
Ernst Roets: Attacks on Whites in South Africa, Attempts to Hide It, and Trump’s Plan to End It
uh number one but it's not homogenous by any means it's very diverse yes 11 official languages right it's not just just to restate it's not just black and white at all no no no no no it's certainly not there's this indian community there's what we call colored community in south africa and there are various different tribes you could say or cultural communities within among black south africans and among white south africans
The Tucker Carlson Show
Ernst Roets: Attacks on Whites in South Africa, Attempts to Hide It, and Trump’s Plan to End It
So it's very diverse, different languages, different cultures. And now we have this political system that just says you have individual rights. And in some ways, the constitution, even though it was very much celebrated when it was adopted, it was called the best constitution in the world and the most liberal, most democratic and so forth. It guarantees everything, but you get nothing.
The Tucker Carlson Show
Ernst Roets: Attacks on Whites in South Africa, Attempts to Hide It, and Trump’s Plan to End It
Yeah, exactly. That's exactly it. So we have what they call third generation rights, first, second and third. It's a very vast network of rights that you have in theory. But then the question is, so there's this idea that the highest authority is the constitution, but it's not possible for a written document to have the highest authority.
The Tucker Carlson Show
Ernst Roets: Attacks on Whites in South Africa, Attempts to Hide It, and Trump’s Plan to End It
Yes. So let me firstly say that I have a lot of respect for Nelson Mandela. I think in terms of his efforts and as I say, I think he's the best the ANC has ever had to offer. Winnie Mandela, his wife, not so much. So she famously, I mean, she's been involved with a lot of things, including what was called the Mandela Football Club, which was a gang that was involved with violence.
The Tucker Carlson Show
Ernst Roets: Attacks on Whites in South Africa, Attempts to Hide It, and Trump’s Plan to End It
The highest authority is with the person who gets to interpret it.
The Tucker Carlson Show
Ernst Roets: Attacks on Whites in South Africa, Attempts to Hide It, and Trump’s Plan to End It
So for example, section 25 of the constitution in South Africa, which the government is trying to change, it's a private property rights clause. They want to change it. But currently it says the government can expropriate your property if it's in the public interest. Now, if you ask me as a Westerner, when is it in public interest to expropriate property?
The Tucker Carlson Show
Ernst Roets: Attacks on Whites in South Africa, Attempts to Hide It, and Trump’s Plan to End It
It would be something like they have to build a big highway or maybe there's a military emergency or something like that. If you ask a judge who is founded in this ideology we've just spoken of, they would say it's in the public interest for white people not to own land. So it's a question of interpretation. You can have a wonderful document, but it boils down to how do you interpret it?
The Tucker Carlson Show
Ernst Roets: Attacks on Whites in South Africa, Attempts to Hide It, and Trump’s Plan to End It
And that's why I'm saying it's not compatible with realities on ground level. And there have been many law fairs in South Africa, many, many, many. South Africa is a very good example of political court cases. And we've won many and we've lost many. But it's a ship that is sinking.
The Tucker Carlson Show
Ernst Roets: Attacks on Whites in South Africa, Attempts to Hide It, and Trump’s Plan to End It
So they have been trying to change the South African constitution, the property rights clause, to empower the government to expropriate private property without compensation. That's the buzzword. Just steal the land. Yeah, they call it EWC. It's expropriation without compensation, but it's confiscation of property. That's what it is.
The Tucker Carlson Show
Ernst Roets: Attacks on Whites in South Africa, Attempts to Hide It, and Trump’s Plan to End It
No, exactly. It's just shoplifting. It's flabbergasting to see the extent to which, again, academics and analysts and journalists are rushing to the defense of the South African government. In South Africa? Yes. So here's one of the many bizarre things that they would say. They would say, this is all a lie. You guys are lying. It's not expropriation without compensation.
The Tucker Carlson Show
Ernst Roets: Attacks on Whites in South Africa, Attempts to Hide It, and Trump’s Plan to End It
It's expropriation with compensation, but compensation can be nil. So it can be zero compensation.
The Tucker Carlson Show
Ernst Roets: Attacks on Whites in South Africa, Attempts to Hide It, and Trump’s Plan to End It
And so the president has just signed the expropriation bill in South Africa, which is now... He signed it? Yeah, yeah, yeah. So there's still an attempt to change the constitution and there's now a new bill in process.
The Tucker Carlson Show
Ernst Roets: Attacks on Whites in South Africa, Attempts to Hide It, and Trump’s Plan to End It
It was just announced, I think a week ago, that they want to pass through parliament that says that 80% of... That's what it boils down to, that 80% of land or property in South Africa must be owned by black people. So because it says it must be racially representative. And so I want to tell you a quick story about this because it sort of highlights the ideology.
The Tucker Carlson Show
Ernst Roets: Attacks on Whites in South Africa, Attempts to Hide It, and Trump’s Plan to End It
I was at a land summit in South Africa and a spokesperson for the Department of Land Reform spoke. And it was very clear from his speech that the problem is white people owning land. It was a racial thing. It was very clear. But it's colored with words like restitution and correcting historic injustices and so forth. And so I asked him at this summit, I said, so here's an example.
The Tucker Carlson Show
Ernst Roets: Attacks on Whites in South Africa, Attempts to Hide It, and Trump’s Plan to End It
And what would the government's position be on this? The example is... A white guy owns a farm. The government takes it from him to correct historic injustices. And they give it to a black guy. And it's a black farmer. And maybe a year or two down the line, this black farmer decides he doesn't want to be a farmer anymore. He wants to sell his land. And the buyer is white.
The Tucker Carlson Show
Ernst Roets: Attacks on Whites in South Africa, Attempts to Hide It, and Trump’s Plan to End It
killings of innocent people. And she famously said at a political rally, with our necklaces and our matches, we will liberate this country. Which of course is a reference to the necklace murders, which was very popular in South Africa and still happens in South Africa.
The Tucker Carlson Show
Ernst Roets: Attacks on Whites in South Africa, Attempts to Hide It, and Trump’s Plan to End It
And now there's a white farmer again. What's the government's position on this? And the spokesperson for the department says, in that case, the correction of the injustice has been reversed. It's completely bizarre.
The Tucker Carlson Show
Ernst Roets: Attacks on Whites in South Africa, Attempts to Hide It, and Trump’s Plan to End It
It's very sad what happened to that country.
The Tucker Carlson Show
Ernst Roets: Attacks on Whites in South Africa, Attempts to Hide It, and Trump’s Plan to End It
No, they say that Robert Mugabe is a hero and that ZANU-PF, the party... His party, yeah. Yeah, yeah, is a good party and it's a liberation force and we respect them.
The Tucker Carlson Show
Ernst Roets: Attacks on Whites in South Africa, Attempts to Hide It, and Trump’s Plan to End It
Well, I think you can say there are threats of that happening. There's not a genocide happening in South Africa.
The Tucker Carlson Show
Ernst Roets: Attacks on Whites in South Africa, Attempts to Hide It, and Trump’s Plan to End It
What am I missing? Yeah, if you own land, by definition, that's illegitimate, regardless of whether you bought the land. It doesn't matter how you got the land.
The Tucker Carlson Show
Ernst Roets: Attacks on Whites in South Africa, Attempts to Hide It, and Trump’s Plan to End It
So the ANC in South Africa wanted to – they have this process of name changes. And by the way, this targeting of statues came from South Africa. It's happening in America. It started in South Africa, burning down statues and so forth. And they've had this long process of name changes. And one thing they wanted to –
The Tucker Carlson Show
Ernst Roets: Attacks on Whites in South Africa, Attempts to Hide It, and Trump’s Plan to End It
to change the street in which the US embassy is in South Africa to Fidel Castro Avenue. That's one story. The other one is they wanted to change one of the main streets in Pretoria to name it after Mao Tse Tung. And then some of the opposition parties said, are you crazy? Do you know what Mao Tse Tung did? And the response was, remember, Mao was never convicted of any crime.
The Tucker Carlson Show
Ernst Roets: Attacks on Whites in South Africa, Attempts to Hide It, and Trump’s Plan to End It
That's when you take a rubber tire, you fill it with petrol or gasoline, and you put it around someone's neck so that it's bound around their arms and you set it on fire. And then you stone that person while he's burning to death. And that happened. There were, I think, 500 or 700 people were killed like that during political violence in South Africa. And she encouraged this.
The Tucker Carlson Show
Ernst Roets: Attacks on Whites in South Africa, Attempts to Hide It, and Trump’s Plan to End It
Well, I think there's some explanation as to why the South African government has gone so off the rails. And it's that they've gotten a free pass for decades.
The Tucker Carlson Show
Ernst Roets: Attacks on Whites in South Africa, Attempts to Hide It, and Trump’s Plan to End It
Because of this narrative, they could do and say whatever they want. They've got no criticism or very little criticism, very careful criticism. And that's why I think they've gone so ballistic after the recent comments by Trump and people like Elon Musk.
The Tucker Carlson Show
Ernst Roets: Attacks on Whites in South Africa, Attempts to Hide It, and Trump’s Plan to End It
Oh, yeah, absolutely. It's the biggest story in South Africa at the moment. Really? And what are they saying? Well, they're saying that we've, the organizations that I was involved with at the time have committed treason, that we've been charged for treason. You've been charged with treason? Yeah. For what?
The Tucker Carlson Show
Ernst Roets: Attacks on Whites in South Africa, Attempts to Hide It, and Trump’s Plan to End It
For speaking, well, among others, for me speaking with you about what's happening in South Africa. That's treason? Yeah, because it's bad mouthing your country. That's the argument. Damn. So I don't know if it was one of the opposition parties who filed the charges.
The Tucker Carlson Show
Ernst Roets: Attacks on Whites in South Africa, Attempts to Hide It, and Trump’s Plan to End It
No, no, you should come to South Africa. No, you should definitely come. I don't know if much will come from the treason charges, but that's certainly the action. But you've been charged with treason. Yeah, there were official complaints filed at the police. Yes, yes.
The Tucker Carlson Show
Ernst Roets: Attacks on Whites in South Africa, Attempts to Hide It, and Trump’s Plan to End It
It would be imprisonment. We don't have the death penalty.
The Tucker Carlson Show
Ernst Roets: Attacks on Whites in South Africa, Attempts to Hide It, and Trump’s Plan to End It
Well, I'm honestly, seriously, I'm more concerned if the question is about safety, about mob justice in South Africa than the actual government coming after you. Of course. So what does that look like? Well, we have... I think you reported on this in 2021, I think, when there was this massive riots in South Africa. In Durban. In Durban. I remember that.
The Tucker Carlson Show
Ernst Roets: Attacks on Whites in South Africa, Attempts to Hide It, and Trump’s Plan to End It
Yeah, it sort of spilled out to Gauteng, to Johannesburg, to a lesser extent. And it's just people, it's almost like, you know, smelling blood and becoming extremely violent. And people join in by the thousands.
The Tucker Carlson Show
Ernst Roets: Attacks on Whites in South Africa, Attempts to Hide It, and Trump’s Plan to End It
So someone, a friend from Europe once asked me, are you not afraid that the government's going to come to your house and take your stuff? And my honest answer is not that much. I'm more concerned about a mob showing up. So then what do you do? Well, if you are alone, you can't do anything.
The Tucker Carlson Show
Ernst Roets: Attacks on Whites in South Africa, Attempts to Hide It, and Trump’s Plan to End It
If you're a well-functioning, well-organized community, then the community, you can call people on the radio. You can get the community to take a stance. And I think that's one of the things. So you don't get lynched.
The Tucker Carlson Show
Ernst Roets: Attacks on Whites in South Africa, Attempts to Hide It, and Trump’s Plan to End It
It's not so much white people who are targeted.
The Tucker Carlson Show
Ernst Roets: Attacks on Whites in South Africa, Attempts to Hide It, and Trump’s Plan to End It
No, blacks. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's certainly, it has happened in the previous dispensation. It's still happening to an extent, not as much as in the past, but people don't know that it's still happening. To people accused of crimes. Yeah. And it's partly due to the fact that the police is absent. Right.
The Tucker Carlson Show
Ernst Roets: Attacks on Whites in South Africa, Attempts to Hide It, and Trump’s Plan to End It
So especially in townships, someone is a rapist and the police doesn't show up, doesn't do anything. And then the local community just deals with him. That type of thing happens in a very brutal way. Yes, yes. Yeah, it does happen in a brutal way.
The Tucker Carlson Show
Ernst Roets: Attacks on Whites in South Africa, Attempts to Hide It, and Trump’s Plan to End It
Initially, she denied it, and then it came out that it was recorded of her saying this. So, yes, it's very bizarre that someone like Queen Mandela is a hero today.
The Tucker Carlson Show
Ernst Roets: Attacks on Whites in South Africa, Attempts to Hide It, and Trump’s Plan to End It
Yeah, I mentioned the necklace murders before. So we have that. And it's the same with the xenophobic violence. It's very unfortunate. And if we had a well-functioning police service, Maybe that would have helped, but we don't. So in South Africa, we can check the numbers.
The Tucker Carlson Show
Ernst Roets: Attacks on Whites in South Africa, Attempts to Hide It, and Trump’s Plan to End It
I'm pretty sure the private security sphere in South Africa is almost as big as private security in America, but America is much larger. Private security in South Africa is more than double the police and the army combined. If you add the police and the army up together and you multiply it by two, Private security is the amount of private security officers in South Africa or security guards.
The Tucker Carlson Show
Ernst Roets: Attacks on Whites in South Africa, Attempts to Hide It, and Trump’s Plan to End It
Yes, we do have the right to self-defense. We can own firearms, although it's not as easy as in America.
The Tucker Carlson Show
Ernst Roets: Attacks on Whites in South Africa, Attempts to Hide It, and Trump’s Plan to End It
But you can do that. You can get arms, especially through a private security company. There's some room to make sure that you can protect yourself. And does it work? Yes, yes.
The Tucker Carlson Show
Ernst Roets: Attacks on Whites in South Africa, Attempts to Hide It, and Trump’s Plan to End It
In terms of the farm murders, we've seen that statistically, that in communities where areas or communities where people are well organized, where they have radios, where they drive patrols, where they are trained, there's a decrease in farm murders. You can clearly see that. Actually, in the last few years, the farm murder numbers have come down a bit. And it's not because...
The Tucker Carlson Show
Ernst Roets: Attacks on Whites in South Africa, Attempts to Hide It, and Trump’s Plan to End It
because the incitement has gotten better. It's not because the police is more efficient. It's because local communities have become much more involved with their own safety. And so that's certainly one of the most important building blocks of the solution.
The Tucker Carlson Show
Ernst Roets: Attacks on Whites in South Africa, Attempts to Hide It, and Trump’s Plan to End It
No, no, people won't comply. No, I mean, that's partly why I told this story at the beginning, is the Afrikaner people and the farmers are very stubborn. In Afrikaans, we say hard-headed. Well, you have to be stubborn to be a farmer in the first place. Yes, and especially a farmer in South Africa.
The Tucker Carlson Show
Ernst Roets: Attacks on Whites in South Africa, Attempts to Hide It, and Trump’s Plan to End It
I mean, it's easier. Yes, exactly. So it's a common trope among farmers to say that I would rather die on my farm than to hand it over to the government. And so I think if they really try to act on it, which they haven't tried. There are land invasions in South Africa, but it's not so much the government, it's mobs and gangs and so forth invading people's land.
The Tucker Carlson Show
Ernst Roets: Attacks on Whites in South Africa, Attempts to Hide It, and Trump’s Plan to End It
But if they really try to act on these attempts at expropriation, there's going to be a massive backlash. And there's no doubt. So what they would say is, this is actually what the government says, that we need to do what happened in Zimbabwe, but without violence. But that's how they would argue it.
The Tucker Carlson Show
Ernst Roets: Attacks on Whites in South Africa, Attempts to Hide It, and Trump’s Plan to End It
Yeah, you can find it online. And so the argument is, but we're going to do it a bit better. We're going to do it without violence. But what that means is we're going to do what happened in Zimbabwe and you are not going to resist. That's what it means. But obviously people will resist when they try to do that. There's no doubt about it. But I do think the government is very incompetent.
The Tucker Carlson Show
Ernst Roets: Attacks on Whites in South Africa, Attempts to Hide It, and Trump’s Plan to End It
You know, they have these very radical ideas. I don't know if they have the competency to actually go through.
The Tucker Carlson Show
Ernst Roets: Attacks on Whites in South Africa, Attempts to Hide It, and Trump’s Plan to End It
So there are some business organizations in South Africa who now use the term maximum appropriate noncompliance. That's what they encourage private companies to do. So it's a form of civil disobedience. It's with all these BEE, these black empowerment laws, to just say,
The Tucker Carlson Show
Ernst Roets: Attacks on Whites in South Africa, Attempts to Hide It, and Trump’s Plan to End It
And the government owns the land, most of the land that they expropriate. They don't give it to people. It goes to the government.
The Tucker Carlson Show
Ernst Roets: Attacks on Whites in South Africa, Attempts to Hide It, and Trump’s Plan to End It
How's that? Yeah. Well, civil disobedience can be a wonderful thing. And we've had some examples of successful civil disobedience campaigns in South Africa where the government had these, they call it the ETO system. It's like a big,
The Tucker Carlson Show
Ernst Roets: Attacks on Whites in South Africa, Attempts to Hide It, and Trump’s Plan to End It
tax system on the highways that just, it's an electronic tax toll system that, but people just buy the thousands, tens of thousands or hundreds of thousands just refuse to comply, to get the tags and so forth. And eventually they had to stop it because even though it was law, people just didn't do it. And the same with COVID. COVID was a good example. We've had a bizarre COVID.
The Tucker Carlson Show
Ernst Roets: Attacks on Whites in South Africa, Attempts to Hide It, and Trump’s Plan to End It
Everyone has had a bizarre COVID. So we had these strange laws like you can't buy flip-flops during COVID.
The Tucker Carlson Show
Ernst Roets: Attacks on Whites in South Africa, Attempts to Hide It, and Trump’s Plan to End It
Yeah, and you cannot buy shorts. You cannot buy cooked chicken. We had these really, really bizarre COVID laws. It's a crime to buy cooked chicken or to sell cooked chicken during COVID. And so people just said, well, we don't care. We're just going to do what we want. And so there was a massive civil disobedience phenomenon in South Africa during the COVID lockdown.
The Tucker Carlson Show
Ernst Roets: Attacks on Whites in South Africa, Attempts to Hide It, and Trump’s Plan to End It
Yes, so there were some better and some worse people in the leadership.
The Tucker Carlson Show
Ernst Roets: Attacks on Whites in South Africa, Attempts to Hide It, and Trump’s Plan to End It
And so I think people have learned, and the government couldn't do anything about it, I think people have learned that you can actually do a lot if you just don't comply with these completely ridiculous, irrational laws.
The Tucker Carlson Show
Ernst Roets: Attacks on Whites in South Africa, Attempts to Hide It, and Trump’s Plan to End It
I think an important component here that is very well documented, it's not a secret, but a lot of people don't seem to want to know this or recognize this, is the very strong alliance that the ANC has always had and still has with the South African Communist Party and the extent to which they were supported, not just by the Soviet Union, also by the Vietnamese and by Mao Tse-Tung as well.
The Tucker Carlson Show
Ernst Roets: Attacks on Whites in South Africa, Attempts to Hide It, and Trump’s Plan to End It
Yeah, so we've had some examples of this. It started with the Rhodes Must Fall movement. Oh, the Rhodes, oh, Cecil Rhodes. Cecil John Rhodes, yeah. So this one guy defecated on Cecil John Rhodes' statue at, was it UCT? What university was it in Cape Town? Okay. And then they started this movement.
The Tucker Carlson Show
Ernst Roets: Attacks on Whites in South Africa, Attempts to Hide It, and Trump’s Plan to End It
Yeah, yeah.
The Tucker Carlson Show
Ernst Roets: Attacks on Whites in South Africa, Attempts to Hide It, and Trump’s Plan to End It
Just shit on it. They started this movement of tearing down statues, which eventually boiled over to America, and that's how it got to America. And it boiled over to Europe and so forth. But it started with that, this targeting of statues. I think it was 2012 or something. It was maybe before that even. And it became a mob.
The Tucker Carlson Show
Ernst Roets: Attacks on Whites in South Africa, Attempts to Hide It, and Trump’s Plan to End It
And they wore t-shirts with slogans like kill the whites, like on the t-shirt. And it became very violent and very overtly racist. And it was students running around just, you know, setting things on fire, burning down buildings and stuff like that. So that is a real threat. And then later we had the fees must fall movement that was university students demanding that education must be free.
The Tucker Carlson Show
Ernst Roets: Attacks on Whites in South Africa, Attempts to Hide It, and Trump’s Plan to End It
You shouldn't pay to go to university. And it was the same thing. And now we've had these, more recently, we've had political parties sort of taken up that thing. This kill the boer and so forth. And so I honestly think in South Africa, the threat of mob violence is a bigger threat than the government.
The Tucker Carlson Show
Ernst Roets: Attacks on Whites in South Africa, Attempts to Hide It, and Trump’s Plan to End It
Well, the thing is, there's no silver bullet. There's no one thing that we can do to make sure that we're equipped to withstand that.
The Tucker Carlson Show
Ernst Roets: Attacks on Whites in South Africa, Attempts to Hide It, and Trump’s Plan to End It
But if there is a silver bullet, it would be, or the closest to it, it would be what I mentioned earlier is well-organized communities, communities that have a sense of community, that recognize that you have a sense of responsibility, not just towards yourself and your own family, but towards your community.
The Tucker Carlson Show
Ernst Roets: Attacks on Whites in South Africa, Attempts to Hide It, and Trump’s Plan to End It
and that you have some form of a communal identity that is under threat that is being targeted and you have to protect yourself you have to fulfill a bunch of functions that the government is not fulfilling even though you're paying them to do it they're not doing it so you have to look after your own safety you need to have a gun you need to have a bulletproof vest you need to have or if you don't then at least a significant amount of people in your in your community must especially those who are more interested in
The Tucker Carlson Show
Ernst Roets: Attacks on Whites in South Africa, Attempts to Hide It, and Trump’s Plan to End It
this type of thing. You need to be well-organized. You need to be prepared if something bad happens in your community, if the mob comes, if they set the shopping mall on fire, or if they come for people's houses, that in a very short timeframe, you can get a whole bunch of people mobilized to protect their community. And with these riots in 2021...
The Tucker Carlson Show
Ernst Roets: Attacks on Whites in South Africa, Attempts to Hide It, and Trump’s Plan to End It
That was a good case study because some communities were completely unprepared and they were virtually destroyed. And some communities were very well prepared. And when the mobs arrived, there was a bunch of people with guns waiting for them.
The Tucker Carlson Show
Ernst Roets: Attacks on Whites in South Africa, Attempts to Hide It, and Trump’s Plan to End It
Yeah, they were very well armed. Yes. Yeah. It's like some heroic Indians out there. Yeah, there was one, I think, some guy with something that looked like a minigun on the back of a pickup truck. I don't know where they got that.
The Tucker Carlson Show
Ernst Roets: Attacks on Whites in South Africa, Attempts to Hide It, and Trump’s Plan to End It
implementing what they call the people's war strategy that they got from Mao Tse Tung. So yes, it was very much the ANC saw themselves as being the African or South African frontier of promoting a socialist or communist revolution.
The Tucker Carlson Show
Ernst Roets: Attacks on Whites in South Africa, Attempts to Hide It, and Trump’s Plan to End It
We have some brave Indians. We do. And there were other examples. One was the mob was approaching a town and the people were waiting for them on a bridge. And then they got there, they just couldn't enter because the people had just cordoned off their own town, their own village or community, and they weren't able to enter. So we've had some case studies of this.
The Tucker Carlson Show
Ernst Roets: Attacks on Whites in South Africa, Attempts to Hide It, and Trump’s Plan to End It
South Africa is a fascinating case study for a lot of things.
The Tucker Carlson Show
Ernst Roets: Attacks on Whites in South Africa, Attempts to Hide It, and Trump’s Plan to End It
Of course. Of course it would be better. I think it's because they have – when they took power in 1994, they explicitly said we are not a political party. We are not a government in terms of what people think a government should be. We are a liberation movement committed to the promotion of socialism and committed to the promotion of black nationalism. And that's their ideology.
The Tucker Carlson Show
Ernst Roets: Attacks on Whites in South Africa, Attempts to Hide It, and Trump’s Plan to End It
They said that in 94. Yeah, they even said that before 94. They published it.
The Tucker Carlson Show
Ernst Roets: Attacks on Whites in South Africa, Attempts to Hide It, and Trump’s Plan to End It
Yeah. There's a well-known book that was an international bestseller, My Traitor's Heart by a guy called Rian Malan. It's sort of his autobiography.
The Tucker Carlson Show
Ernst Roets: Attacks on Whites in South Africa, Attempts to Hide It, and Trump’s Plan to End It
And so there's one section in that book. I know Rian. I know the author. He's a great guy.
The Tucker Carlson Show
Ernst Roets: Attacks on Whites in South Africa, Attempts to Hide It, and Trump’s Plan to End It
He speaks like he writes as well.
The Tucker Carlson Show
Ernst Roets: Attacks on Whites in South Africa, Attempts to Hide It, and Trump’s Plan to End It
So there's one part in the book where he talks about picking up the New York Times. And I'm sort of saying this from memory from reading the book. But broadly speaking, what he says is he picks up the New York Times in, I don't know, 1992 or something in New York or wherever. And there's two stories on the same page. The one is about the ANC and Nelson Mandela coming to save South Africa.
The Tucker Carlson Show
Ernst Roets: Attacks on Whites in South Africa, Attempts to Hide It, and Trump’s Plan to End It
And then the other story is a somewhat smaller story about a guy being necklaced in a local community, a guy being viciously attacked and killed. And so he writes in that book that... What concerned him was that the New York Times was not able to connect these two stories to each other. They didn't recognize that it's part of the same story. It's presented as two completely different stories.
The Tucker Carlson Show
Ernst Roets: Attacks on Whites in South Africa, Attempts to Hide It, and Trump’s Plan to End It
That was while the Rwandan genocide was happening.
The Tucker Carlson Show
Ernst Roets: Attacks on Whites in South Africa, Attempts to Hide It, and Trump’s Plan to End It
It was the same month, even. The election, at least.
The Tucker Carlson Show
Ernst Roets: Attacks on Whites in South Africa, Attempts to Hide It, and Trump’s Plan to End It
That's not hard. Well, there's a story from Rwanda that I keep mentioning in the same time. I think Linda Melvin wrote a book called Conspiracy to Murder, which is about – I think she lived in Rwanda and she's a journalist and she wrote about what happened. And she writes about a –
The Tucker Carlson Show
Ernst Roets: Attacks on Whites in South Africa, Attempts to Hide It, and Trump’s Plan to End It
It must have been a party in Washington between American diplomats and government officials from Rwanda in the run up, I think, to the genocide. And it was just a big celebration and everyone was happy because Rwanda was in the process of becoming a democracy.
The Tucker Carlson Show
Ernst Roets: Attacks on Whites in South Africa, Attempts to Hide It, and Trump’s Plan to End It
And then afterwards, someone asked one of the Americans, but did you not know what was happening in Rwanda, that they were on the verge of committing genocide? And he said, the American diplomat said, yes, we knew, but we were so excited about democracy and Rwanda becoming a democracy. We didn't want to spoil the mood by confronting them.
The Tucker Carlson Show
Ernst Roets: Attacks on Whites in South Africa, Attempts to Hide It, and Trump’s Plan to End It
Yeah.
The Tucker Carlson Show
Ernst Roets: Attacks on Whites in South Africa, Attempts to Hide It, and Trump’s Plan to End It
So that's very, very alarming, this idea of being so excited about a potential idea that you are not willing to confront the realities that's happening or that could potentially unfold.
The Tucker Carlson Show
Ernst Roets: Attacks on Whites in South Africa, Attempts to Hide It, and Trump’s Plan to End It
Can I give you an example of that from the South African perspective? So I mentioned the name changes. It's a big thing in South Africa. Yeah. I'm sure that'll fix your problems.
The Tucker Carlson Show
Ernst Roets: Attacks on Whites in South Africa, Attempts to Hide It, and Trump’s Plan to End It
No, obviously. So there's a town called Amanzamtoti, which is on the east coast of South Africa. The main street was named Kingsway. They changed it to Andrew Zondu Street. Now, Andrew Zondu is really only known for one thing. He was a member of the ANC Youth League, and I believe it was 1985. He planted a bomb in a shopping center, and he killed, I think, five people and injured 40.
The Tucker Carlson Show
Ernst Roets: Attacks on Whites in South Africa, Attempts to Hide It, and Trump’s Plan to End It
All of the people who were killed were women and children. That's the only thing he did. And he was a member of the ANC Youth League. The ANC regards that event as something that they claim as an act of heroism. So they named the main street after him. And so there are people in that town who drive to work in a street named after the person who killed their children.
The Tucker Carlson Show
Ernst Roets: Attacks on Whites in South Africa, Attempts to Hide It, and Trump’s Plan to End It
And now they would say that they need to do these name changes to make sure that they get rid of offensive names. Offensive names are Afrikaans names, names linked to South Africa's past. And so I was at, again, a summit where this was discussed. And I mentioned this. I said, so you say that in Pretoria, Church Street is an offensive name and has to be changed.
The Tucker Carlson Show
Ernst Roets: Attacks on Whites in South Africa, Attempts to Hide It, and Trump’s Plan to End It
In Amanzum Toti, you change King's way to Andrew Zondu. And I tell this story and I said, so who decides if it's offensive or not? And the guy said, oh, well, that's easy. The majority decides. And so, but it's not even the majority. It's just the government. The government decides because they believe they are the majority.
The Tucker Carlson Show
Ernst Roets: Attacks on Whites in South Africa, Attempts to Hide It, and Trump’s Plan to End It
So we have these extremely offensive things happening under the banner of- Well, they're murderous.
The Tucker Carlson Show
Ernst Roets: Attacks on Whites in South Africa, Attempts to Hide It, and Trump’s Plan to End It
Yeah. No, definitely. Yeah, we'll stay. You guys must love your country. Yeah, we really do. I mean, in South Africa, everyone who's been to South Africa would say it's an incredibly beautiful country, and it truly is. And it's a country that unfortunately has suffered so much under this current government. and has suffered so much in the past.
The Tucker Carlson Show
Ernst Roets: Attacks on Whites in South Africa, Attempts to Hide It, and Trump’s Plan to End It
One of our Afrikaans philosophers, a man named N. Pierre van Wyklo, wrote, I think in the 1930s or something, that you love a people not so much for their accomplishments as for the hardships that they've had to endure. That's right. And I think that's true for South Africa.
The Tucker Carlson Show
Ernst Roets: Attacks on Whites in South Africa, Attempts to Hide It, and Trump’s Plan to End It
South Africa has endured many hardships and also for our people, the Afrikaans people, as with many other peoples all over the world. have endured many hardships. And it's through these hardships and maintaining our sense of identity that we really love our history and our tradition and our culture.
The Tucker Carlson Show
Ernst Roets: Attacks on Whites in South Africa, Attempts to Hide It, and Trump’s Plan to End It
Yes, the French Huguenots, yes. It was the fleeing the religious wars in Europe. Of course, they were getting killed. Yes, in big numbers. Yeah, yeah. It's... That's part of our origin story, how we came to be. Well, it's also factually true.
The Tucker Carlson Show
Ernst Roets: Attacks on Whites in South Africa, Attempts to Hide It, and Trump’s Plan to End It
Well, the reality is that virtually every sphere of society is collapsing with the exception of taxation, of course, and tax collection. That's still very, very efficient. Maybe I can explain it this way. So America has a somewhat skewed tax system with, if my information is correct, about 85% of tax, income tax in America is paid by about 10% of the people. I think that's correct. So one in 10.
The Tucker Carlson Show
Ernst Roets: Attacks on Whites in South Africa, Attempts to Hide It, and Trump’s Plan to End It
Yes, yes, absolutely.
The Tucker Carlson Show
Ernst Roets: Attacks on Whites in South Africa, Attempts to Hide It, and Trump’s Plan to End It
Well, the problem is if you do that, you get bashed quite aggressively. Yeah, but like compared to what?
The Tucker Carlson Show
Ernst Roets: Attacks on Whites in South Africa, Attempts to Hide It, and Trump’s Plan to End It
Well, the alternative is worse. It's just living the lie. It's much worse than getting bashed for telling the truth. Can I tell you a quick story or a quick reference about courage? Of course. So it's somewhat philosophical, but I'll make it practical. So Odysseus is on his way back from the Trojan War. And he has all these hardships and he's trying to get home.
The Tucker Carlson Show
Ernst Roets: Attacks on Whites in South Africa, Attempts to Hide It, and Trump’s Plan to End It
And he gets told that the only way for him to get home is to face Scylla and Charybdis. Scylla is this six-headed sea monster, and Charybdis is a monstrous whirlpool that swallows ships whole. And the only way for him to get home is he has to navigate through these two monsters. Which he eventually does.
The Tucker Carlson Show
Ernst Roets: Attacks on Whites in South Africa, Attempts to Hide It, and Trump’s Plan to End It
He decides it's better for him to sail his ship closer to Scylla, the sea monster, than the whirlpool. And a whole lot of his people die, but he reaches his destination. And so Aristotle writes about this in the Nicomachean Ethics, when he talks about the golden mean. And he says any virtue... is about finding the balance between having excess of it and having a deficiency of it.
The Tucker Carlson Show
Ernst Roets: Attacks on Whites in South Africa, Attempts to Hide It, and Trump’s Plan to End It
And so this goes to courage, and courage is a good example. If you have excess courage, you become reckless. And if you have a deficiency, then you are a coward. And so the point of having courage is finding the balance between cowardice and recklessness. And what's great about the story of Odysseus is Odysseus discovers that he cannot simply go exactly in the middle between the two.
The Tucker Carlson Show
Ernst Roets: Attacks on Whites in South Africa, Attempts to Hide It, and Trump’s Plan to End It
He has to be closer to the one threat than to the other. Because if he goes too close to the whirlpool, his whole ship gets swallowed up. And so the point here, and Aristotle says this as well, it's not to find the exact middle point. It's to find the appropriate balance between the two extremes. And so the one extreme is recklessness and the other extreme is cowardice.
The Tucker Carlson Show
Ernst Roets: Attacks on Whites in South Africa, Attempts to Hide It, and Trump’s Plan to End It
And I honestly think in the situation we are in, it's better to err on the side of being too bold than to err on the side of having not enough courage or trying to find some form of solution through appeasement. And so we make mistakes in the process, and sometimes you say something wrong or you do something wrong.
The Tucker Carlson Show
Ernst Roets: Attacks on Whites in South Africa, Attempts to Hide It, and Trump’s Plan to End It
But I'm very much convinced that if we're on this course and we try to pursue what we are trying to pursue, rather err on the side of having too much boldness and too much courage and facing the consequences than having to face the consequences of having a lack of courage. I love that.
The Tucker Carlson Show
Ernst Roets: Attacks on Whites in South Africa, Attempts to Hide It, and Trump’s Plan to End It
Well, I think there are many ways. The one way is just to follow what's happening in South Africa and speak about it. Because we've had this incredible barrage of communications coming, just telling us again how wrong we are. This narrative is this zeitgeist in a certain sense. It's really like a monster that you have to fight.
The Tucker Carlson Show
Ernst Roets: Attacks on Whites in South Africa, Attempts to Hide It, and Trump’s Plan to End It
That you're not allowed to say, speak certain truths, even though the truths are self-evident. So I think one thing is if people just can help spread the message, help take some interest in South Africa, because what's happening in South Africa is also of interest to the rest of the world. I think it is. In many ways, South Africa is the future of the Western world.
The Tucker Carlson Show
Ernst Roets: Attacks on Whites in South Africa, Attempts to Hide It, and Trump’s Plan to End It
In South Africa, 85% of income tax is paid by one in 30 people. So it's a very small number of people, a very small portion of society that pays tax, that is heavily taxed. And then about almost half of the population in South Africa get money from the government in the form of social grants.
The Tucker Carlson Show
Ernst Roets: Attacks on Whites in South Africa, Attempts to Hide It, and Trump’s Plan to End It
In terms of the problem and the solution, I think. So that's one. And then the other is there really are some institutions in South Africa who are really focused on building community-based solutions. And I think if people can... can identify these institutions and support these institutions, it really would help.
The Tucker Carlson Show
Ernst Roets: Attacks on Whites in South Africa, Attempts to Hide It, and Trump’s Plan to End It
And I think in terms of the US government, if the US government is willing to do something, as it seems that they are, I think the most important thing that they could do is a combination of pressuring the South African government away from these destructive policies, but also supporting communities, local communities or minority communities or nations, you should say, who are committed to finding some form of self-determination.
The Tucker Carlson Show
Ernst Roets: Attacks on Whites in South Africa, Attempts to Hide It, and Trump’s Plan to End It
Amen. Well, Godspeed.
The Tucker Carlson Show
Ernst Roets: Attacks on Whites in South Africa, Attempts to Hide It, and Trump’s Plan to End It
I hope you'll come back. Oh, thank you. I hope so too. And I have to thank you for not just for this interview, but also for the focus you've been putting on South Africa in the past.
The Tucker Carlson Show
Ernst Roets: Attacks on Whites in South Africa, Attempts to Hide It, and Trump’s Plan to End It
Well, thank you very much.
The Tucker Carlson Show
Ernst Roets: Attacks on Whites in South Africa, Attempts to Hide It, and Trump’s Plan to End It
If you add government employees, conservative estimates say that 50% of people in South Africa get money from the government. Some estimates say it's up to 60% of adults, voting age adults, get money from the government each year. So then... This money, of course, is then used. It's given out as social grants.
The Tucker Carlson Show
Ernst Roets: Attacks on Whites in South Africa, Attempts to Hide It, and Trump’s Plan to End It
But what's left is used to set up these programs that are actively discriminating against taxpayers. I mean, there are so many examples. One of the most recent ones is this Blacks Only Fund that the government has set up whereby they give money to black entrepreneurs exclusively. So this is happening.
The Tucker Carlson Show
Ernst Roets: Attacks on Whites in South Africa, Attempts to Hide It, and Trump’s Plan to End It
And then on top of that, so after you spend your tax money to fund these government programs that are discriminating against you, You have to spend what is left to do the things that the government was supposed to be doing. So the classical definition of a government is that it should protect life, liberty, and property.
The Tucker Carlson Show
Ernst Roets: Attacks on Whites in South Africa, Attempts to Hide It, and Trump’s Plan to End It
The classical liberal view, we're a bit Ciceronian, so we think a government has to do more than that. But if we use those three things, the government's not protecting our lives. There's about, if this interview that we're about to have is two hours, there will be about seven murders in South Africa in this time. Government does not protect liberty.
The Tucker Carlson Show
Ernst Roets: Attacks on Whites in South Africa, Attempts to Hide It, and Trump’s Plan to End It
It's actively targeting schools of minority communities, actively denying the identity and the rights of minority communities. And it's certainly not protecting property. It's actively involved with the program to empower the government to expropriate private property without compensation.
The Tucker Carlson Show
Ernst Roets: Attacks on Whites in South Africa, Attempts to Hide It, and Trump’s Plan to End It
So, and then we have to use the money that is left to pay for our own private security, to become involved with organizations, to fulfill the things that the government was supposed to be doing with the tax money that we paid in the first place.
The Tucker Carlson Show
Ernst Roets: Attacks on Whites in South Africa, Attempts to Hide It, and Trump’s Plan to End It
No, that's absolutely the case. So there's a theory, there was this video that just went viral on social media of this guy talking about how white people are subhuman and all of that. And they get, well, this is taught at universities in South Africa. There's a theory called Azania critical theory. Azania is a pan-African word for South Africa.
The Tucker Carlson Show
Ernst Roets: Attacks on Whites in South Africa, Attempts to Hide It, and Trump’s Plan to End It
And they actually get this from Americans like Robin DiAngelo, who's this Ibrahim X. Kendi, Ta-Nehisi Coates, these people. They get it from them. And then they put an African flavor on it, which essentially boils down to a theory that justifies the targeting and extermination of the white minority. And so the theory, to summarize, goes more or less like this.
The Tucker Carlson Show
Ernst Roets: Attacks on Whites in South Africa, Attempts to Hide It, and Trump’s Plan to End It
There's an African term called Ubuntu, which means brotherliness or it's about your internal humanity. It's a Zulu term. And the theory goes that white people are incapable of having Ubuntu. But Ubuntu is the essence of humanity. So if you don't have it, you're not truly human. So it boils down that the logical conclusion is that if you kill a white person, then you did not actually commit murder.
The Tucker Carlson Show
Ernst Roets: Attacks on Whites in South Africa, Attempts to Hide It, and Trump’s Plan to End It
Yeah, well, perhaps I can start with your reference about the 90s, because it's absolutely true. South Africa and America was very involved with the setting up of the political system that we have in South Africa during the 90s. And it was, of course, the end of history era. Everyone is excited about...
The Tucker Carlson Show
Ernst Roets: Attacks on Whites in South Africa, Attempts to Hide It, and Trump’s Plan to End It
So this is not widely believed in South Africa, but this is taught at universities by university professors, and it's certainly believed by radical elements. It's a predicate for genocide.
The Tucker Carlson Show
Ernst Roets: Attacks on Whites in South Africa, Attempts to Hide It, and Trump’s Plan to End It
Yeah, well, we've always been saying that there's not a genocide in South Africa, looking at what happened in Rwanda and so forth. It's not the same thing. But it is very alarming to look at some of these claims that are being made and to compare that to what was made in Rwanda.
The Tucker Carlson Show
Ernst Roets: Attacks on Whites in South Africa, Attempts to Hide It, and Trump’s Plan to End It
Yeah, and we have these political parties chanting, I mean, you've seen this, you've reported on this, chanting, kill the boer, kill the farmer to a stadium filled with people. And it's not just rhetoric. So they would say, no, it's just a metaphor.
The Tucker Carlson Show
Ernst Roets: Attacks on Whites in South Africa, Attempts to Hide It, and Trump’s Plan to End It
But it's preceded by a speech about how white people are criminals and should be treated like criminals, how everything they have is illegitimate and stolen, in which people are encouraged to go and invade their farms and so forth. And then they chant, kill the boer, kill the farmer, and they make these hand gestures. Of course, the boer is a reference to the Afrikaner people.
The Tucker Carlson Show
Ernst Roets: Attacks on Whites in South Africa, Attempts to Hide It, and Trump’s Plan to End It
But the reality is also that the farmers are being attacked and killed on their farms. So it's not just a metaphor. And our attempts at researching this has found that there's an increase in farm attacks, obviously, when the political climate becomes heated or warmer. And these type of statements are made in a way that's highly publicized.
The Tucker Carlson Show
Ernst Roets: Attacks on Whites in South Africa, Attempts to Hide It, and Trump’s Plan to End It
You do get an increase in farm attacks, and it's very brutal and very horrific farm attacks that we see. So the farm attacks are attacks against white farmers, not against… Not exclusively white farmers, but it's attacks against farmers in South Africa, of which the majority is white.