Eric Lipton

I don't feel like the public is as engaged or as outraged by some of the things that are happening. And that's also part of the normalization. So if both the Republicans in Congress and the American public is just going to sort of let this become normal, then it does become normal.

I don't feel like the public is as engaged or as outraged by some of the things that are happening. And that's also part of the normalization. So if both the Republicans in Congress and the American public is just going to sort of let this become normal, then it does become normal.

No, I think that the partisanship has really undermined accountability. It makes it hard to have accountability when all of these investigations, whether led by Democrats or Republicans, that the other side is immediately dismissing them as witch hunts that are politically driven. And the Congress used to be made up of Democrats and Republicans, more so at least,

No, I think that the partisanship has really undermined accountability. It makes it hard to have accountability when all of these investigations, whether led by Democrats or Republicans, that the other side is immediately dismissing them as witch hunts that are politically driven. And the Congress used to be made up of Democrats and Republicans, more so at least,

I mean, like a Frank Wolf was a Republican that I can remember, or Tom Davis is a Republican. I mean, these were, you know, the conservatives, but- Partisans, but not ideologues. They were value-based Republicans. Even Orrin Hatch was a value-based Republican. And, you know, Chuck Grassley is, you know, a value-based Republican. you know, to some extent.

I mean, like a Frank Wolf was a Republican that I can remember, or Tom Davis is a Republican. I mean, these were, you know, the conservatives, but- Partisans, but not ideologues. They were value-based Republicans. Even Orrin Hatch was a value-based Republican. And, you know, Chuck Grassley is, you know, a value-based Republican. you know, to some extent.

And, you know, now it's just all investigations are so partisan, and even the way that the public reacts to them is so dismissive, depending on which side you're on, that it empowers the executive, the president, to just ignore them and to say, oh, this is just political, you know, nonsense. And I think that that feeds into this

And, you know, now it's just all investigations are so partisan, and even the way that the public reacts to them is so dismissive, depending on which side you're on, that it empowers the executive, the president, to just ignore them and to say, oh, this is just political, you know, nonsense. And I think that that feeds into this

this pursuit of greater executive power and and and and and ignorance of red lines. And I think it's it's unfortunate. And I think social media is also a factor in this where, you know, the tribes are feeding each other, you know, their through tunnels of information that just backs up their favored politician.

this pursuit of greater executive power and and and and and ignorance of red lines. And I think it's it's unfortunate. And I think social media is also a factor in this where, you know, the tribes are feeding each other, you know, their through tunnels of information that just backs up their favored politician.

So I do, I think this, this, all of this is becoming more normalized in a way that is unfortunate and potentially long lasting, but you know, we'll see how it plays out. And, you know, first of all, we've got to get through the Trump years and, you know, we're just going to continue to, we're going to continue.

So I do, I think this, this, all of this is becoming more normalized in a way that is unfortunate and potentially long lasting, but you know, we'll see how it plays out. And, you know, first of all, we've got to get through the Trump years and, you know, we're just going to continue to, we're going to continue.

Yeah, I mean, rule of law, it's just, you know, the Republicans and the Democrats love to use that term, but the rule of law is becoming less, you know, less real and less apparent in society today. And And that's, I mean, our country has really been held up by that norm for centuries now. And it's becoming less and less apparent. And that's really problematic. But Susan, what are your thoughts?

Yeah, I mean, rule of law, it's just, you know, the Republicans and the Democrats love to use that term, but the rule of law is becoming less, you know, less real and less apparent in society today. And And that's, I mean, our country has really been held up by that norm for centuries now. And it's becoming less and less apparent. And that's really problematic. But Susan, what are your thoughts?

Thanks for having me.

Thanks for having me.

Thanks for having me.

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