Eduardo Ocampo
Appearances
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Haliburton’s Brilliant Game 4, the Reeling Knicks, and OKC’s All Grown Up With Zach Lowe
We will.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Haliburton’s Brilliant Game 4, the Reeling Knicks, and OKC’s All Grown Up With Zach Lowe
Yeah.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo
You're listening and watching the Bill Simmons podcast presented by FanDuel, our friends, America's number one sportsbook, and they've made it easier than ever to get in on the action during an NBA playoff game, even after tip-off. Just look for the live SGP tab on the FanDuel sportsbook app and build your own bet slip, then sit back, relax, track the outcome of your parlay right in the app.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo
It is a little past 11 in the morning Pacific time on Sunday. We are not doing this after Pacers Knicks because it's Memorial Day weekend. And sometimes real life takes over the podcast schedule. I don't know what to say, but Ryan Rosillo is here. We have a bunch of fun stuff we're going to talk to.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo
I think you undersold Marcus Smart a little. Just because how we felt about the trade versus I think what his actual value is. I think people really thought he had value when they traded him. That's why they got two first round picks for him. They got two first round picks plus Porzingis for Marcus Smart. So he had to have real value.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo
And I think Jared Allen will have real value if Cleveland decides actually our move might be.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo
Porzingis, the equivalent of Porzingis and two firsts for Jared Allen. I mean, the best thing with him is he's, I think he's 20 and 20 and then he goes up to 30, 30, 30. So it's a five-year commitment to him. And there's a lot of teams that need a center. I think Gafford's going to be in demand too.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo
I think both of those guys, if Dallas tries to trade Gafford, I think he's going to have real value because we just see it every year. These teams, like the Lakers that killed them, that they had to play, couldn't play Jackson Hayes. You know, going down the line, Milwaukee couldn't find any center to play because Lopez finally got old. Yeah, I think... Let me ask it this way.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo
I have Allen circled as a guy that I think could move this summer.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo
We're going to be able to talk about these playoffs, even not knowing what's happening in game three tonight, which started out pretty shocking with the Pacers taking a 2-0 lead. I'm going to start here, Rosillo. Indiana and OKC, if that ends up being our finals.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo
Well, remember after you could have gone after every single year we've had for the last five or six and there was two teams we felt awesome about. And then that was kind of the peak for us feeling awesome about them. I would say Dallas last year was a good example. Yeah, but Dallas looked really sad.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo
You're going to pick them as top five team you'd want to be last summer.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo
I think Denver after the summer of 23, no question. And then even after last summer, you still would have said it. And now this summer, you're wondering what the hell they're going to do because the league has shifted and you need seven, eight guys. Realistically, they have four. So what do they do? Four and a half, depending on what they get from Porter.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo
But then going back even further, think about that Bucs-Suns finals. Like, oh man, these teams are set. Suns look great. And then within two years, that Suns thing completely fell apart.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo
I don't think you can.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo
What's interesting, big picture, is you could argue each of those teams is the team you would want to be for the next four to five years in their conferences. And I think the OKC is a pretty easy argument for the West, unless you want to throw San Antonio at me.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo
Oh, I like how he did that.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo
I think I'd want Indiana. I think I'd have the, I think I would. I think the Cleveland piece, there's the amount of money you have to shell out for the team they have with all this apron stuff, I think is really prohibitive. Orlando, I really would have to study Orlando. Because I would have, those three guys would have to be my guys.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo
I think with the Cleveland part, that's interesting is you have outs all over the place. I can trade Garland. I can trade Allen and I can trade Mobley. Like I have three guys that I know have real value that I can turn into multiple pieces if I have to. Whereas Indiana, I probably have less outs to blow stuff up. Cleveland also has no picks.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo
I don't know. But this is what's so crazy about this year. You're almost better off having a team like how they built it versus the traditional three guys and then a bunch of James Posey, Eddie Houses. It feels like those days are over. That's why OKC... And OKC is clearly the answer in the other conference.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo
There's a moment with that draft when it seemed like they were going to get the seventh pick. Where it wasn't just they were going to get the seventh pick from Philly. Dallas was also going to get fucked. And they have Dallas's, I think it's like top two protected 2029 pick. So they basically lost two picks in that trade. Like two prime picks. Because Dallas was never going to get back there.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo
Let me see. I have this.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo
That's three summers from now. So instead of like them having this juicy swap pick at 28, they were like, Oh three. And then on top of getting seventh pick in this draft, which would have been huge, they don't get the seventh pick. And then Dallas gets replenished. And that picks probably not going to be that important, but I'm not crying for a, okay. See, because they're still pretty loaded.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo
But for Indiana, the fact that we are now, I don't know, two plus games in the conference finals, the thought of them being the team you would most envy in the East was like 50 to one odds, I would say in January. How did we get here?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo
Somehow they had the 15th and 24 picks in this draft. I don't even know. I mean, they have so many players. I don't even know. I assume I was trying to figure out how they could work around the fringes because, you know, they have this SGA contract now. He can either make 200, he can sign a four-year $293 million extension this summer, or he can wait and sign for 5,380 next summer.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo
Either way, he's going from making $38 million to like $60 million. And then Chet and Jalen Williams are both extension eligible pretty soon, I think this summer. They're going to have to deal with that at some point. They have Hartenstein, 28.5 next year, and then team option on that after. They have Dort at 17.7 team option after that. Caruso at 18, 19.5, and 21.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo
They have Wallace on a cheap contract, Wiggins. I assume if they wanted to trade somebody to create some money, I would assume Dort would be the guy, right? If you wanted to send money out because you know you have to shift that money toward SGA, I think Dort would be the most expendable. And I also think Dort would have a lot of value out there. That's the kind of guy everybody's looking for.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo
Get somebody like that for under $20 million a year. But other than that, I think this is going to be their roster. Plus, they have Topich coming out, coming off the knee surgery next year. So he's going to get some minutes from somebody. So I would assume, right, you agree with that? Think Dort's on that team next year?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo
We just haven't seen them have the appetite to spend. Be the counter. I wouldn't say they've been money.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo
But, you know, they know, but they know they have money coming with those three guys specifically. The SGA, that's coming, that's here. That's probably here this summer. I don't know what, if he's going to pick this summer or next summer for that extension. And Chet and Jalen Williams are going to be Mac's guys are close, I would assume. Yeah, I understand all that.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo
The Jalen Brown corollary on those two guys I think is going to be hitting. Although Chet's an interesting one because he's already been injured twice and plays a position that usually it's a little discounty at the center position compared to the other positions for whatever reason. So maybe, I don't know what he lands. You could tell me any number, I would believe it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo
Did you read that story? People were studying photos of him and they think he might be 7'7 now, but he grew an inch.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo
On your OKC point, they're shooting 32.4% from three in these 14 games. And it was something they've just been killing everybody, and their defense is so great. But it's also a team that if they fall behind by 20, I feel like they just can't come back because they're not explosive enough, right?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo
And part of the reason they fall behind by 20 is because their younger guys are usually not playing well. But when they fell behind by Minnesota... In game three, it just feels like they don't have that same kind of explosiveness unless it comes from their defense. And their defense, what did you see in that game that you felt like Minnesota unlocked? Anything?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo
Well, so let's go this way first. Who would you rather be in the East? Give me a team. Because I felt the same way as you, where I was like, oh, there's got to be somebody, and then I'm going through the conference, and I'm like, Detroit? Yeah. Orlando, Boston, no idea what their payroll is going to look like in two years. Philly, I got to deal with Embiid and Paul George.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo
Leonard Miller was out there being like, I'll give you the whole package, son. Well, it sounds like yesterday they were just like, we need more athletes out there. Shannon, go out there and be an athlete.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo
The biggest thing I noticed other than the zone was that Randall was getting the ball in the right spots without OKC doing the thing where it just felt like he was getting smothered every time he had the ball. And this is the part I don't understand with OKC because we saw in the Denver series too.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo
There were games where it felt like Jokic was doing every single thing he wanted from all the spots on the floor he wanted to do it. And then there were other games that just felt like he was in a tsunami. And if OKC is not playing with that tsunami defense... at least for Randall, it's great.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo
And I just felt like he was physical and impactful in a way that in game two, it was like, is he going to be playable anymore? He's just had three awful quarter, three awful halves. He's really getting the first half of game one and then just disappeared after that. So they unlocked him.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo
they were able to at least survive with Gobert out there, which, in fact, that felt iffy in the first, especially in the second game.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo
I'm going to answer that question after the break. This episode is brought to you by Michelob Ultra. We all have our routines during the playoffs. I'm the same man who once wore the same t-shirt every single day during the 2003 baseball playoffs. I am the same person who will tell my wife to come into the room when I need a team to win because she's good luck during the NBA playoffs.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo
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The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo
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The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo
New York, this might be where we peak with them right now with these five guys that the first two games that they played, the plus minus was an abomination. And I don't know how that plays out over the next two years.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo
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The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo
So you asked me if I feel any differently about OKC after game three. I left game two thinking that they were not going to lose another playoff game and that they had gone up a level defensively. And they were just going to go on one of those runs like the 91 Bulls did.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo
There's some great young teams over the years that just as the playoffs went along, they started going up levels and just waxing everybody. I think the 0-1 Lakers were like this, Tim. And they basically only lost one game in overtime to Philly. But teams that just got better as the playoffs go along. And I thought that's what we were watching with OKC. I don't get surprised very much.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo
I know game three, it's always a zag. It's always the desperation thing. The line was only OKC minus two, which I was talking with Raheem and JJ and House and Sal about the line and just like, this might be our last chance ever to have OKC at a spread that that's low. And finally, it went up to three. And then they just sucked and they seemed young.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo
And I was surprised by it because I figured they would know that Minnesota was going to come out like they did. I thought Ant was good in game two. If you look back at the pace that he had and how he played and the decisions he made, it was really good. There was some good stuff about that the next day. but I was just surprised. They seemed young.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo
And one of the things that stood out yesterday was Gobert just seemed big in some spots in a way that I just didn't feel in the first two games. I felt like physically they overpowered OKC a little bit. Ultimately, I don't think OKC loses again. I would still bet on, I think this is now five instead of four. And Minnesota at least showed they had a little reserve, but I still think OKC is just,
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo
I know they can crank up that defense. For whatever reason, when they fall behind 15, something happens to them psychologically. I don't think they're a very good come from behind team. They did it once against Memphis in that John Moran game when he got hurt. But in general, I just think they're built to have a lead and protect it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo
It's almost like those NFL teams that they just need to go up 10 and then their defense can finish the game. I think that's who they are.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo
Who else is there?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo
It felt like game two was heading that way, and they just couldn't land the plane on it. And they led a couple. That's what's crazy about this OKC team. They have these 10-0 runs, and all of a sudden you're like, fuck, we're down 12? What happened? Especially with their defense at home. And it might be one of those things. OKC might just be an awesome home playoff team.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo
And they're going to have home court and maybe they're just going to be one of those teams where old school, like the splits at home versus them on the road is a little different.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo
Edwards was, I thought, really good in game two, even though his team wasn't. And I thought he was really good yesterday. And maybe that's the roadmap for them. I thought he was patient. I really felt like he was trying to solve what they were doing. They were throwing all kinds of dudes at him and he was handling it. And I just was really impressed. I thought it was a sophisticated game.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo
Whereas compared to last year in the Dallas series, where I thought he kind of unraveled a little bit, the more Dallas threw at him, I thought he had trouble handling it. And in those last two games, I didn't. So that would be the case if you're excited about Minnesota. It's like, hey, something might be happening here.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo
Didn't love our looks.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo
Did you see the social clip when he was telling his family to leave with like six minutes left in game two? I thought that was weird. It was like Finch told him not, you know, we're going to make a run without you. Don't get mad. I need you for game three.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo
I think, by the way, that's a great first instinct. When you get the press conference clips where they're just like doctoring the audio out of the guy's mouth and you're like, wait, that guy said that?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo
It's like, fuck this guy. Yeah. Because he hit him first.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo
But... It wasn't the free throws. It was the calls he was getting when he banged in other bodies that didn't resemble... everything else that was being officiated in the entire playoffs. He was doing it. He would be side to side with somebody and he put his arm out and the, and McDaniels had a couple fouls where he's just like, what the fuck am I supposed to do? Am I, should I run backwards? Yeah.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo
I guess my question is, did he move into at least the top 15? He did make All-NBA. Now, there were some guys that were injured, so that's not necessarily a great litmus test. But he's somewhere in the top 20 to 22, I would say. And then the fact that he's found a way to raise his game in the playoffs, I think that counts for something. The fact that he's so unique...
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo
Should I fall down?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo
Yeah, if you're going to go 20 for 40 from three and Randall's going to play well and Ant's making good decisions, they're a really good team.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo
with that said Caruso nine minutes didn't he get a bunch of fouls though yeah I'm just he was minus 16 when he was out there and it was the first bad Caruso game in a while Wallace only played 15 And he was minus 30 in the 15. I don't even know. Do these numbers matter, though? Yeah, I'm just I'm trying to figure out like to me, defense is going to be their identity in this series.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo
And my guess is they're going to try to come back and be like, dude, we got here on defense. Let's play some defense again. When Caruso goes out, there's a give me Randall. That guy's not doing that again. He takes him. They'll throw dudes at Edwards. Just try to make him give up the ball. And they're going to see if Minnesota can go 20 for 40 from three again. Would be the strategy.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo
I still like OKCN5.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo
It was, it was delayed by two seconds. So that, that I like to get as live as possible. So I ended up going back.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo
Yeah, maybe it's kind of the surroundings. Yeah, because if you're in a neighborhood where you have one of like many good restaurants in the neighborhood and then you're one of the only ones left and it's like, man, the food in this place is great. Might be one of those. I think he's great.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo
The Travolta comeback cannot be compared.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo
Tommy Lee Jones? No Country for Old Men? Is it No Country for Old Men for Legs?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo
Right. And then he had that run in the 90s. Then it dipped again. Then it came back.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo
Yeah, he's fucking awesome. Give him a giant monologue at the end. He's going to crush it. I was thinking, I don't know whether I would call this the sea change season or the something's different season. I mentioned this to you last week and I was going through seasons that just feel like something has shifted.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo
with where basketball has gone, where we just don't have guards who run the show like this in the same way anymore. We have these guards that are trying to get their stuff off and, you know, you got to involve the offense around them and what they do. He just kind of is additive and makes everybody better.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo
We've gone from, it's better to have nine than three. That's pretty weird. But think all the things that happened this season. LeBron and Curry feels like those eras are over as like, if this is the best guy on your team, that doesn't mean you're even going to make the finals. Tatum goes down and the Boston thing, which goes from 2016 to this year, now feels like it's in flux.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo
The Luka trade, which was the biggest trade in the history of the league. Cooper flagged to Dallas. And OKC has arrived. And San Antonio feels like they're reloading. And it just feels like the seesaw just went like this. The last time I was looking through all the seasons, trying to think when I felt like that with the season. 2016, when Cleveland beat Golden State. Golden State had beaten OKC.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo
And then the weird salary cap thing. And Durant just went to the Warriors. And we were like, oh. It just felt like a shift.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo
2010-11 season, right after the decision in Miami and the lockout was coming. And it felt like the Celtics and Lakers had kind of run their course. We were in the tail end of Kobe and Gasol. That felt like that was not going to the best place. KG, Pierce, Ray, that felt like that might be getting creaky. OKC was coming with Durant and those guys.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo
And we had all those awesome drafts in a row in 07, 08, 09, where just all these young players are coming to the league. And it was like, I don't know what's happening, but something's happening. And by the way, we may not have basketball season next year. So it was just like, we're on edge.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo
And then the only other one I can think of was after MJ's, he wins his last title and we immediately go into the lockout. And Kobe and Duncan are coming and the league's about to shift that way. And it seems like Grant, it seems like it's going to be Kobe, Duncan, Grant Hill, MJ's gone. We have this lockout. The salaries are super weird. They're trying to get rid of these three-year contracts.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo
You're in the league three years, then you can sign for $100 million. And it just felt like everything was fucked up. Those were the seasons in the last 25 plus years that you could just tell something had changed. And I think this season feels like that. So I wanted your take. I would put it in that class. If the Pacers win this whole thing... Well, that's like... Right.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo
Um, and I don't think like you, I know you've studied at least the top five in this draft and everybody likes Harper and it seems like the Spurs are going to take Harper. It seems all the indications are like that, that pick is really not available and they're going to take Harper and they feel good about it. And that's where we're going.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo
Yeah, then we're getting canned goods. Even if they make the finals, I think it feels that way. We get an Indiana OKC finals? It's fucking crazy.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo
I feel like we're already here, though, for this reason. Did you see that there was a graphic about the 25 most followed Instagram accounts? Yes. In the NBA, which includes people like both Ball Brothers and Ben Simmons. But it was like the NBA players with the most Instagram followers. And none of the four teams left had a guy in the top 25. I was like, that feels like something.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo
No, it just feels like, I think you add everything up combined with where we're going with this lottery. And it just feels like something. And then the second apron thing, I didn't even mention that part. And just where we're going financially, I don't even, I don't like you add all that together and say, I don't know what this, what's going to happen with this league.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo
I forgot to mention the meteorites deal. We have new partners. We have the inside the NBA.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo
Just like the flux of this year, like feeling like we're adding, we're ending something and heading towards something.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo
You're not with me. It doesn't sound like plus Cooper flag coming.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo
It doesn't always happen, though. Uh, well, like we're going to have Utah tanking, I guess, for the rest of the decade and still God only knows what's going to happen with them. Look at Charlotte, look at Washington, you know, it's, and then you go on the other side. By the way, did you know Brooklyn has four first round picks?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo
Um, but I don't think he's an inclusive player like Halbert and he is, he's more of a, the way guards have gone this decade, where they score, they can also bring the ball up, they can set people up, they can run a fast break, but they're not constantly just thinking about involving everybody else.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo
For some reason, I didn't realize that until I was studying the draft and all the draft picks.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo
Eight, 19, 26, and 27. How high could you move up with those four? Could you get to fourth? Would Charlotte do that?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo
The only team I was thinking about that could potentially get excited is Daryl because he would just have all these picks. It would be like his Super Bowl. He'd be like, I'm going to build an entire bench right now for my guy Joel Embiid.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo
It's funny when, uh, how often do you look through when we think about all these teams that are loaded with all their picks and then you actually look at the picks, you know, OKC is one of those that I thought OKC was just like, holy shit, they have so many awesome picks. And now you go through it and I'm not sure they're that awesome. They have two Denver top five protected picks down the road.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo
I assume Jokic is still going to be there. They have the Dallas swap in 28, but now they have Cooper flag. They have Clipper stuff in 26 and 27 swaps and this year, but the Clippers seem like they're going to be at least pretty functional for the next two years. And then they have the Philly 26 first top six protected top four protected the next year. And Philly seems like they've reloaded.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo
No, no, I didn't say that one. But I almost assume Utah is going to throw next year. So they don't really have like a genuinely juicy pick. Whereas, you know, like Houston has Phoenix's 27 firsts. And they have the ability to choose between Phoenix or Dallas' first in 29. Those are picks where you're like, oh, fuck. Those are some winners. Brooklyn has a couple good ones, too.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo
But again, it's like Brooklyn can swap with Houston in 27. What does that do for you? Houston's going to be really good. So sometimes when these teams put together all these picks, Utah's interesting because they still have a bunch of those Minnesota and Cleveland picks left.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo
But ironically, the best pick they have is that sneaky trade they made near the deadline, that weird trade Phoenix made where they gave up the three firsts for...
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo
their 2031 first which utah now has if they're 2031 first who the fuck's gonna be in phoenix in six years you know that could that could end up being yeah it might be both of us um the other one there's some other weird trades that i just forgot three of us just hanging out well washington got memphis's first round pick this year
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo
because they took Marcus Smart to go back to our Marcus Smart trade. He went from, I'm worth Kristaps Porzingis and two firsts, basically, to you have to trade a first to get rid of me to go to my next team. That's pretty dramatic. Anyway, there was a reason I brought all this up. Oh, because we were talking about how fast things can flip for who we think is looking good. Who knows?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo
And I'm like, yeah, I don't know. Cause I, as I said to you a week ago, I'm, um, even though all indications is San Antonio has taken Harper, um, I don't know. Edgecombe seems like a, I know they already have Castle. Like it'd be weird to have both of them, I guess. But I don't know.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo
I'm trying to remember, when was the last time that's happened? Tatum. In like April, May, we were like, oh no, here's going to be the top four. And then something shifted as we got to mid-May, June.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo
I think Tatum's the right example though.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo
Like there's, isn't it more likely that he could drop versus go up? Like when I found out he was six, seven and a half and not six, 10, I thought that was a complete game changer.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo
I think this is where we need a sports czar to really decide one way or the other with the measurements. Are we going shoes or no shoes? It's like when we talk about NFL season. So are we saying that the 2001 Pats or the 2002 Pats that won the Super Bowl? Is it the year the Super Bowl was played or the year we had the regular season? There's just some things we haven't figured out as a country.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo
I think it would be most likely Ace Bailey falls out of the top three, then stays in the top three. And I still have Edgecombe, I think, climbing. Let's take a break. I want to talk about Halliburton. All right. Tyrese Halliburton. We're taping this before game three. So he might go one for 15 tonight with 12 turnovers. I was thinking.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo
I was thinking he's the best what-if guy of this decade, considering all the teams and all the fan bases that can look at him and go... Even Golden State. And there was no way Golden State was taking him at two during the COVID draft, which the COVID draft we'll be doing documentaries about because we had no March Madness and nobody could really work out and just doing Zoom interviews.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo
Golden State knows Halliburton is absolutely perfect for them. And there's not quite enough of a resume... to take a guy who's probably in the seven to nine range at number two. It would have been really ballsy, but you would have had to absolutely love the guy. And they did try to trade back from what I heard, but nobody wanted to trade back because it was the COVID draft, nobody.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo
But here's a guy who I would assume Curry is the perfect Steve Kerr player, but Halliburton's probably a close second for how he sees the floor and how he loves the unconstructed chaos. So you have them. You have Detroit taking Killian Hayes over him. You have the Knicks. Now, this is a what if in both directions because...
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo
They take Toppin over him, but it also leads to Brunson and all the good stuff that happens. So you're probably fine with how it worked out if you're a Knicks fan. Washington passes on him and takes our guy Abdiah. Phoenix was the most indefensible, and we said this in the moment, because they actually needed, you know, to think long-term, Halbert and Booker together.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo
They take Jalen Smith, who they waive after two years, and then San Antonio passes on him. So you have all of those teams before we get Sacramento number 12. Then you have, this is my favorite one of all of these, Philly could have traded Ben Simmons for him. It was the Halliburton-Heald trade. And I've argued with people about this for two years. It was like, that was never on the table.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo
That was never the trade. It was like, well, they traded Sabonis for Halliburton and Heald. And they were offering Sabonis for Ben Simmons. So you can't say like, oh, this couldn't have happened. But I just feel like if Sacramento wanted Ben Simmons... which I think they did because there's stories about it. Could that have been Hal Burton and healed?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo
And I just don't think, I don't think Philly thought he was a big enough star. So you have that. And then you have the Sacramento piece. Sacramento had him for 109 games, Rosillo. They had him for a year and two thirds. And they were like, Fox and Halliburton, I don't know. This doesn't work. They weren't going anywhere. They had a chance to trade for Sabonis, which made sense at the time.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo
It worked out. They won a playoff. They got to the playoffs. They did all the stuff they did.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo
So that is one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight teams that are like, oh, fuck. We literally could have had that guy. And now he's on Indiana. He's not going anywhere. I don't remember another player like that.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo
I would have to go back to like the 1990s when Jason kid got traded twice and felt like he was available for a while there in the, in on Dallas in the mid nineties when that team wasn't working out. But for somebody as talented as Halliburton, it just kind of be available both in the draft and as trade bait. It's pretty unusual.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo
Really fun trade when it happened.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo
Well... But... Or maybe you could make a... They traded the wrong guy case.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo
The case for trading him was that the money was kicking in with him faster. So you had the Halliburton on the rookie deal versus paying more for Fox. But yeah, I mean, it was, I think the Knicks were trying to get Fox there for, they loved him obviously because the Kentucky piece and what kind of godfather deal, but I don't think they ever shot Fox.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo
And I think Halliburton was kind of being dangled just because the Fox Halliburton thing didn't work, which in retrospect is kind of crazy. I actually think when you think about where the league's gone the last few years, they actually could have built their own version of what Indiana has with, you know, around like around two guards who had the ball at the time we were attacking.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo
Coming up, a little Memorial Day weekend basketball talk with Ryan Russillo next. We're also brought to you by the Ringer Podcast Network, where we have new rewatchables coming for you on Monday night. It is the last episode of Big Ass 7 News Month. We did Heaven Can Wait. It was me and Van Lathan and Chris Ryan. So that's coming Monday night.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo
I think the other piece though, you know, it's so funny. Like Rick Carlisle felt like he got old in Dallas in a lot of ways. Right. And then they finally moved on for him. where how inventive he was for a lot of his career. But it just felt like maybe the league was moving in a different direction or something was happening.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo
But then you watch how he rekindled how everybody felt about him as a coach in Indiana. I mean, that stuff they were doing to the Knicks in game two. I was watching the Twitter clips the next day. Some people are putting some good stuff on them. Watch what they did to Towns. Yeah, what did you like? just chaos. You know, they, they had, they pushed the pace.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo
So they get a lot of, one of the things that Celtics, I was watching it more from, I was driving myself crazy about those first two Celtic games, which are moving up the ladder of all time. Worst losses still, still healing from those first two games. The worst Celtics loss of my lifetime was 2010 game seven finals. Game four 22 is up there. I think when you lose a game,
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo
That actually, like, where you could have won the title and you didn't win because those have to be the highest. But I think the combo of those two games... It's really up there historically, like blowing two 20-point games in a row. But part of the reason they blew it and you're watching what Indiana's doing, they're pushing the pace.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo
They're just trying to make Towns stagger around at the top of the key, not having any idea where he should be or using Robinson. There was one awesome play where they were in the same play with McConnell twice in a row on the right side. And the first time Siakam stayed in the corner, and Robinson was kind of guarding him, but guarding the rim.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo
And then the second time Siakam snuck up and got this wide open three, if they were using all the shit, the Knicks are bad at against them. And it's, it's, he was doing the same stuff last year. Like they really gate went toe to toe with Boston in that Eastern finals. And that series is way closer than I think it felt. It was the closest sweep I've ever watched.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo
I never felt comfortable in any of the games. Um, But anyway, I just thought, I think he's figured out pace and chaos in a way that's really unusual for a league where everybody wants to know exactly what they're doing. Boston's the worst possible example of that. Let's walk it up. Let's play 1-4. Let's wait till eight seconds. Come set a pick. We're going to hunt this one matchup.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo
And I think the Knicks just got used to it. And they can't get used to whatever Indiana's doing. I hate talking about this before game three, but that's what I noticed. I just felt like the Knicks were frazzled by Indiana. You know what I mean?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo
We're really trying to catch Mitchell Robinson asleep. You think we're going after Cat, but we're really trying to get Mitchell Robinson to forget that somebody's about to back up behind him.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo
And why aren't you pushing the ball? That's the other thing. One of the things Indiana's doing is they... Indiana's just brought... Indiana's brought back the fast break, which was basketball since the entire time we've started playing it is we get a rebound. Go.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo
We know Tatum's gone next year. Drew's going to be 35, 36. Tatum's not playing next year. Jalen's going to be at $60 million. This Indiana, the way they set it up, Tyrese and Siakam next year are $91 million combined, which is pretty great. Normally, if you're paying two guys who are in the top, Siakam's you know, always one of the best nine to 10 forwards.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo
I don't.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo
I think it's interesting. And again, we're taping this for game three. I think it's interesting that all those Detroit games were so close and that they were down 14 plus in the first five Knicks games. And that the bigger the sample size gets... They just don't have a lot of games. Like OKC, they sucked in game three.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo
OKC's had a lot of quarters and stretches and even entire games where they've just killed teams. And that's what would worry me the most about as a Knicks fan. They're not having game six against Boston was the only time they like killed the team. Right. And that was a team that had Porzingis and a borderline coma, no Tatum, et cetera, et cetera.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo
Nobody can figure out that weird 45 degree angle jump shot he has.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo
It was shocking to watch what he did to Derek White. I thought he was just able to score on him whenever he wanted, basically. Quick 2020 NBA redraft.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo
Golden State took Wiseman second. I just think they shouldn't do that again. No, I don't think so. I think Wiseman is no longer the second pick. And I think it's Halliburton. I think they take him and they're delighted by it. And then him and Steph Curry. This is quite an altering universe. Charlotte had the third pick. They took LaMelo Ball. Tyrese Maxey's still on the table.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo
You think they'd take Tyrese Maxey or LaMelo Ball, the third pick?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo
I'm not sure they're running that one back. So you think they would take Maxey here? Yeah. All right, so LaMelo and Maxie are 3-4 in some order here.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo
He's never one of the best five or six, but he's always in like the top 50 for players. So you put those two together.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo
No, I had LaMelo 4. I had Maxie 3, though. Cleveland's 5th, they took Isaac Okoro.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo
So for the people listening, if you don't remember, Bain ended up going 30. He got drafted by the Celtics and then traded. And this was one of the reasons the COVID draft is so legendary because just look how we did the first five. Number one, number 12, number 21, number three, and number 30 were the first five. Atlanta's up next.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo
You know what my biggest criticism of McDaniels is? It has nothing to do with anything about him. I think he gets no respect from the referees, and I don't really understand it. And I've noticed it over and over again. He gets called for... touch fouls that I don't feel like any other elite defender gets whistled for. And I don't really fully understand why, but you can kind of feel it too.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo
Like I remember going to game two of the Lakers and you're just like, oh, they're just going to foul him out of the game. I can see where this is going. First two OKC games, I felt like the whistle was not fair with them. And then in game three, all of a sudden started getting a good whistle again. All right. So Atlanta, Jaden McDaniels, Detroit took Killian Hayes, number seven.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo
I'm going to say they're not going to do that again. This is either Devin Vassell, Denny Abdier, Aaron Neesmith. We're in that range. I think they're one of those three. Who do you have?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo
Right when we say goodbye at the end of this pod.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo
Usually the market, wherever you want to put him, if you're paying those two guys, normally with the way the current NBA structure is, that's $115 to $120 million combined for those two spots. So they're getting a discount on those two spots. Then they smartly signed Nembhard to 18-19-21. as an extension, which is right around where his value is. I don't know where the cap's gone.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo
I have Vassell here as well. He went 11th. I have Denny going to the Knicks with the next pick. He went 9th to the Washington Wizards.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo
Yeah, I'm just watching Aaron Neesmith with flame shooting out of his ass. It's Nick's series. It's a recency bias. Then the next three are Okongwu, Quickly, and Pritchard with Phoenix, San Antonio, and Sacramento all on the clock. Okongwu ended up going sixth to Atlanta, Quickly went 25th, and Pritchard went 26th. And Phoenix, as we talked about, famously botched this pick.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo
So I'm going to say Okongwu for them.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo
Then I have quickly gone to San Antonio and Pritchard going to Sacramento. And then we don't have to do anymore after that.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo
All right, so we just did a top 12. That's exciting. And the guys, where they were actually picked versus how that top 12 went, number one, number 12, 21, three, 30, 11, nine, 28, 14, six, 26, and 25. That is fucking nuts. And we don't have, out of the guys in the top eight, we only have three.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo
So it just makes you think like when we were going to spend all this time in this draft, maybe you're better off with the 13th pick than this fifth. Like who the, it's such a crap shirt every year and we always forget it, which is why I think the redrafts are always kind of interesting to redo. This one was a crazy one though. Cause of COVID.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo
Neesmith's at 11 and 11 the next two years. McConnell's at 10 and 11. Toppin's at 14 next year. Mathurin's at nine. And they still have Walker at 6.6 and Shepard at 2.7. They have all their own picks except for 26. And have the ability to I don't know, either package dudes together. They have the ability to dump somebody.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo
Yeah, he was nailing him.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo
Also crazy how many times an awesome player falls into the 12 to 17 range. Because it happened in that 21 draft too, right? Shingun and Trey Murphy fell to 16 and 17. Halliburton fell to 12. Where did Booker go? Like 13? 12 maybe? I don't know. Yeah, somewhere like in the 12, 13 range. Something like that.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo
There's always one guy in that range that nails it. All right, before we go, because we're going to go enjoy our Memorial Day, I ask you to, you have to give me one absolutely crazy prediction for the summer that deep down you don't think is that crazy.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo
There's not what, there's not one. It could be like a Jalen Brown ends up in Houston kind of level.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo
You know, like if they wanted to trade Mather in the summer, they'll be able to at nine. They wanted to either upgrade him or try to get a vet or do whatever. So I think the flexibility is what's appealing. But you made the key point. They don't pay the luxury tax. I think the owner is like 90. And in general, they've just, you know, they're like a few of these teams just don't do it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo
But we said this two years ago with him and he still got that awesome contract for them. Remember, we were like, who are they competing against? Didn't matter. He got the 40 million a year.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo
I was looking at him. We know the center market and it's in the, it's around 20. That's where these guys land over and over again, except with the exception of Sabonis. So we think it's 20, but then we know with free agents, especially when there's not a lot of them out there, all of a sudden somebody gets some crazy deal. Do you think Miles Turner's worth more than $20 million a year?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo
But he was available partly cuz he got, kept getting thrown into Laker trades that seemed like they were just coming from Laker fans. You know, where they're like, oh, they're going to trade for Miles Turner and Buddy Hill. It's like, are they?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo
I'll start here. With what they have, with their assets they have, with him, Luka, and Reeves together, Reeves, I guess you could try to trade him this summer, which you'd have to with the way his contract is going to go. But I'm not sure if you're getting a piece back that if you put Luka and LeBron and whatever that piece is together, I still don't know what that gets you if you're the Lakers.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo
OKC is another one that we're going to find out how much they want to keep this team together when these guys start getting expensive. But at least with Indianapolis, I know what I have with my top two for the next three years. I can add around it. I might have guys coming in who want to play with this nucleus and I'm in a much weaker conference, which I think is the other appealing thing.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo
And the GOAT stuff, which just doesn't end, ever. And every time you think it's over, now the agents are Friday. Now you have David Falk defending MJ. And then Rich Paul's like, well, I've got to defend LeBron. Now we have the agents of the two guys involved in the GOAT discussion arguing about who's the GOAT. That's how bad it's gotten, how stupid it's gotten.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo
We've already printed it out on our printer. We have it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo
You know, it's like LeBron has 40,000 points, but he didn't get 42. Yeah. You're just looking for ways. He's coasting a bit against Minnesota.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo
Compliments are a currency.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo
I'm in like the JV conference.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo
You mean the one person who was like, I was at a party on Memorial Day weekend. I met this guy and he thought LeBron was the GOAT. And we had a drink and I laid out the case for MJ and he changed his mind. He was like, I hadn't thought of it that way.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo
And you can watch it on the Ringer Movies YouTube channel as well. You can watch all the videos and clips from this podcast on the Bill Simmons YouTube channel, or you can watch it as a video podcast on Spotify. Ryan Russillo is next. We taped this. Sunday morning before the Pacers next game three. So it's coming up next. First, our friends from All right, we were recording this.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo
That's when you're having me.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo
But Greeny's not going to be on get up.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo
It's funny because we're making fun of this, but I'm also talking about a LeBron Cleveland scenario. I'm just wondering if it all ends with him going back to Cleveland. By the way, I'm not inventing this. This has been floating around for the last three, four weeks, and people have been wondering. Just after how it ended for Cleveland, it's like, okay, what could they do?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo
There's a couple different ways. First of all, I'm pretty sure, unless I don't think I'm wrong, that they could just trade Jared Allen and DeAndre Hunter for LeBron James and take the second year of his deal and maybe give him a one-year extension. That's a trade that I, according to the trade machine, which still operates on, on, uh, on ESPN. Apparently that's a trade that works.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo
Yeah. You just don't know. It's just like, Hey, it says it. I don't know if I believe it, but it's claiming this works. Um, you could have the LeBron opt out and then sign for a smaller deal and So it could just be LeBron for Jared Allen, a trade that I'm not even sure Cleveland would want to do because LeBron's going to be 41 years old next year.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo
But he could opt out, do a deal around like 20 million, straight up trade for Allen. Or he could opt out of his deal and sign with them for the 12.9 mid-level. Or he could sign with them for the minimum.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo
And he could just be like, I'm passing up. I could have made 50 million. I want to win one more title in Cleveland so badly. I left that money on the table because that's how much I want to win.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo
I felt like I owed this to the Lakers.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo
Yeah. You kind of like this.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo
It was always like 97%.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo
Um, Kobe famously was like, I'm going to get paid every dollar I deserve. Um, I deserve until the end of my career because I've made you guys a shitload of money and there will be no haircut. Pay me. Um, Just fundamentally, if they were able to add LeBron and keep Garland, let's say he did the minimum thing. Let's say he said, fuck it. Let's stack the Cavs.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo
And they were finishing games with Allen and Mobley and LeBron and Mitchell and Garland.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo
I don't think it's going to happen, but it was the craziest thing I could think of that I could also... I wouldn't be like, Oh my God. Like with the Luca trade, I wouldn't be like, Oh my God, he's going back to Cleveland. Cause we've already done this with him. And it would be an interesting way for his career to end. If he felt like he had one year left.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo
Um, There's some pretty interesting issues that come into play pretty quickly, right?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo
Like the Allen and Hunter for LeBron, if you're doing that, it's partly because you're trying to maybe dump contracts in the long term. You're going to take the hit for one year with the money, but then long term, you're actually going to reset your cap because they can get away with some second apron stuff next year, just not the year after.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo
I was trying to think, is there any other team I could see him wanting to go to that would give him a chance to win the title? The Pacers for the mid-level? I don't think the Pacers would go. Dallas was interesting as one, too, because a kid in AD and Cooper flags there, Kyrie's coming back. I don't know. That was the only other one I could think of.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo
Because otherwise, he stays with the Lakers and they trade Reeves. And if I was a Laker fan, I'm not sure that's the outcome I'd be hoping for. Right?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo
I've never played pickleball. I've never held a pickleball racket. I think pickleball is reprehensible. What was in me? What are you talking about?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo
Are you going to send this to me?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo
Okay.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo
The problem is they're already paying their top two. They're getting no advantage out of their young guys anymore. They've already paid the top two plus Suggs. so they're kind of all in with the team they have, and it's hard to move around the margins for them. But there's definitely a case for them.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo
I'm going to, I'm going to go into the hell of Twitter and Google my name with pickleball and see what happens.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo
It was not me.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo
I swear in the lives of my kids, I've never played pickleball.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo
Thank you for clearing that up. I didn't know this was a thing. This is amazing. Yeah. I hate pickleball. I'm already on the record. I think it's one of the worst things that's happened in the last 10 years from a competitive sports standpoint. I don't like hearing the noises. I don't like the people that play.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo
There's a ton of injuries with them because people feel like they're playing adult ping pong and don't realize they're going to blow out their ligaments and Achilles. It's fucking stupid. Just play tennis. Just play tennis. Tennis is great. We've had tennis forever. There's tennis courts everywhere. Pick up a tennis court. You'll get more exercise.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo
Plus indoor fighting. Jesus with rackets. All right, Rosillo, you're doing your podcast Tuesday. I'm doing something Tuesday night. If you had to pick a which series ends sooner right now, we're doing this for Indiana and New York.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo
You think OKC five still?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo
I did two Indiana bets before the series, for the series. I did two bets in the OKC Minnesota series. I bet the over five and a half games, and I bet OKC to win parlayed with Indiana. Those are my two. I thought it was going to go six games, Minnesota. Wasn't feeling too good about that after game two, but five or six, we'll see. All right, Russillo, enjoy your Memorial Day weekend.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo
Thanks for popping on with us.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo
All right, that's it for the podcast. Thanks to Priscilla and Gahal and Eduardo. Don't forget, new Rewatchables coming Monday night. Heaven can wait. And I will have a new podcast on Tuesday. Enjoy the rest of the weekend.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo
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The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo
call 1-877-8-HOPE-NY or text HOPE-NY in New York.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo
That was why I thought this was so interesting to talk about. It's so, it seems so improbable to me that Indiana would be the team you would land on, but it probably is the most stable with the most flexibility of all of these teams. Even Orlando, we talked about like, I don't know how you make that team better.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo
Your nucleus is what it is unless you either trade Franz or Paulo and they're not trading Paulo. But that's going to be kind of their team. And the thing that they need is for Black to hit.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo
So the counter to that was the last two thirds of the season. They were on that pace. They started out bad for a bunch of reasons. But last two-thirds of the season. That's why we kept talking about it. We're like, this is... If you go by last 50 games, last 55, whatever it was, they're playing at the same level as all these other teams.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo
And the odds... I remember we were talking they were 28-1 to win the East. Now, odds didn't really reflect what the last 50 games of the season were, which kind of happened last year with Dallas, too. I think Cleveland I had on my list. Boston's a really interesting one because... First of all, it depends on what they're going to be able to do this summer.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo
And I think they have to get under that second apron because of the repeater tax and all the money it saves. It just sets them up for the two years after that. But what they have to give up to be able to do that. And then when do we get Tatum?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo
You know, and I've heard a variety of things about that, especially like how fast he got the surgery and there's stuff going around that he might be able to come back in February, March because he got the surgery so fast. But who knows that Achilles thing seems like it's seems like it could go as long as a year and a half.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo
And if you're following the Durant model, who's the most successful example of coming back, Durant was a year and a half. So if you're just doing that and you're like, look, next year's a wipeout, the wipeout next year, get under the apron. And then they just try to reset around Tatum and Brown and Derek White. And, you know, then they're still in good shape for this conversation too.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo
I think your instincts on Cleveland are, Cause there's some fixes for them. Right. And you could talk yourself into Garland. Um, he was hurt. He was such a huge part of what they did. Indiana caught them by surprise, bad style for them.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo
Uh, they lost one of the flukiest games in the history of the playoffs, except for the other two fluky games that Indiana would, you know, they, you could talk yourself into, wow, that was stupid. Let's not overreact, which I think should be the answer for them. Um, But at the same time, I still feel like they're going to make a move this summer, don't you?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo
I don't feel like Cleveland runs it back.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo
Man, I feel like everybody gets... I feel like everybody always makes a move when the playoffs don't. You do? Yeah, even the Celtics. Think about the last couple years. They made a move after every year, starting 22, 23, 20. They always did something.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo
They gave up Marcus Smart. Smart was a big trade. That was a pretty polarizing trade at the time. People were surprised. Now it seems like a no-brainer.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo
I don't know how it would look for seven games. Right. I guess for one game you could do it. Right. Karusema ended up shooting like 10% from three because he's so exhausted the entire time. Look, Jokic could have been better today. Certainly. He wasn't a great Jokic guy. No.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo
Some of the passing or it's just like throwing it back to him and he's turning the ball over because it's getting knocked out of his hands. Like a couple were definitely on him. He had the one late where he tried to go right at Caruso at the top and he just got stripped. There's another one from Murray where he's throwing him a buddy pass and all Wallace has to do is just see it coming in.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo
So I think there was a bunch of different things. But I think overall, if you're looking at Jokic, just saying that he was the problem. I mean, the number of times that you're watching Jokic And I think over the course of a series, you get more and more comfortable with it being like, all right, well, if Westbrook hits a couple of corner threes, we're okay with it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo
Like, as long as we try to stay in front of Murray at the top and then collapse on Jokic. Cause I, you know, you could sit there and say, well, same thing. Yeah. They just left. I mean, there was at one point, I mean, the game was like,
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo
basically over at this point but i looked at it to see what strother watson and westbrook were and they were one of four oh a six and two a seven so if you're not getting anything out of any of those guys then good luck um and then i'm guessing at a porter too like as you're expecting like best case scenario like a 15 and seven something from him but you weren't getting that Nothing, nothing.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo
And, you know, at least you have to defend him as if he's going to shoot. But like, it was just a bunch of bricks from him. You know, maybe you say, hey, Jokic needs to get deeper on the catch and then have crew.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo
But then if you're doing that, there's just so much more traffic in there defensively that I think they want Jokic to have more space to get it outside of the elbow, to be able to turn and shoot, to turn and drive.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo
I don't know who can beat an entire team when every single defender is just like, all they really care about is you and Murray's elimination game. Track record is terrific. He's got two 40 point games. He's got the 50 point game in there. So you wondered, you know, you're going to get another Murray moment out of this. The fact that he played as well as he did with the illness in game six, um,
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo
But just over the course of a series when you're going, okay, when Jokic does this, and now it's like three, four, five, in this case, seven games in a row. It's like when he does this, when he catches here, we're doing this. And then everybody's just in tune.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo
And when you wait around on OKC and everybody starts flying around and the help is so good and they're so smart and all this stuff starts happening, I'm with you. I can't believe that Denver played 14 playoff games. I think that's well said.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo
No, you're right. Like when you think about football teams, you go, which is the best unit? OKC's defensive unit and the numbers are back it up. And I think the other part of it is the thing that you loved about them all regular season is this team can go one big, they can go two bigs and both bigs actually complement each other. They don't have zero bigs.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo
There's times where, you know, against Memphis, it didn't really matter. But then I remember, I think it was even in game one with Dagnall where I'm thinking, like, he's coaching this game like he's down 20. Like, is he experimenting in game one for the rest of this series? And then they have that small lineup today just to kind of pour on their adaptability.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo
And so, you know, whenever you look at the playoffs, you're like, hey, they're deep. They'll do all this stuff. It's like, yeah, you really only want to play seven games or, excuse me, seven guys today. And and be who you are.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo
That's that's completely like removing the thing that I've liked the most about them all season long is on paper and based on watching them play all season long, their depth or sometimes we can overrate the depth part of it a little bit. Like I was still surprised in the Pacers. I'm like, they're in these playoff games. They're playing 10 guys in the first quarter. Like that's that's unheard of.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo
And it's working for them. Maybe it's because of their style. And again, we'll see what happens here with the Knicks. But there's part of me, because I thought OKC was so good, had they lost this game, it's like, so do I have to just completely eliminate teams that have all this malleability with their roster? Because that is their greatest strength. And I think we saw that in this series.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo
Um, the first game one line, it's huge. I mean, I already looked at it because I was like, is there a game one scenario there where you go Minnesota easy path so far grind for OKC having to play in Denver that whole time. And the fact that the Western conference has the quicker turnaround than the Eastern conference on this one is brutal.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo
Um, but they had to do that in case there was going to be a game seven. So it's minus seven and a half for the, for game one. I mean, to me that, um, screams Minnesota plus the seven and a half, feeling like you're hoping to get OKC a little hung over from this series.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo
Yeah, considering where they were at the end of the year, you still didn't really understand what the rotation was going to be, the defensive numbers that we had talked about. So to get it to a Game 7 with this group, because I just think even though you had the Strother game in Game 6, you had some good Westbrook moments sprinkled in there.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo
And the craziest thing, too, is you watch the series and you're like, here's a guy that scores three points a game. He's a complete afterthought on offense. And yet his body and his strength was like a nice little like, hey, go in there and hack Jokic. Like to think that the third center that they don't even need
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo
Plays a significant role at times defensively in this series because it's a bit like the cat thing, at least last year, where you go, okay, at least we have a huge, big body type that's strong and can fight for position. Because you're just going to need some of those minutes with Jokic, so you're just not allowing him to get deep. Because every time that Jokic got Chet, his eyes lit right up.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo
It was like, okay. And you could see... Dagnall was like, I want to end up with Chet on Jokic way less than the beginning of the series.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo
Yeah, I think.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo
Well, he's not playing over Caruso. He's not playing over Wallace.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo
I don't think so. So that's 5-6-7. Wiggins... Michael Porter Jr. at his peak.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo
Yeah. And nobody else does either. I don't think Wiggins was all that necessarily in the series.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo
when it's bad, when the spacing is terrible and we'll get to some of the numbers of some of this stuff, like you, you understand there's just incredible limitations. And, you know, I think the headline of today is, is Caruso and his defense and that OKC kind of found something because they abandoned the Chet Jokic idea.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo
Yeah, we're going to go ahead and confirm that.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo
I just don't know who's paying him with the limited cap space.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo
So it's crazy that that's the second round game, but game seven went the way I just thought the Thunder, you know, despite some of the concerns, I thought they were the better basketball team.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo
But if Porter Jr. has, sometimes I see him written about like he's this awesome trade asset. Is that? You're like, if he was any good, they wouldn't want to get rid of him. And the numbers are massive. I mean, it's 38 next year, 40.1 in two years. And he just appears to be a guy that... even at his peak, was more aware defensively, which is being nice. He rebounded a little bit more.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo
He stretches the floor. You just wish you were more aggressive. It doesn't happen for him to the point where it ended up being a huge issue in that Clippers series where he got benched before he was hurt. And even Jokic was like, look, it's the playoffs. If you're not into it now, I mean, that's his teammate saying that, which really doesn't happen very often.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo
So if you're moving him out, you're not moving him – out for some other player that's this massive upgrade and solution because it's not like the rest of these executives aren't seeing these games and know that generally with his talent, his size, and his shooting ability, he should be a better player. So if he's available, what are you actually getting for him?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo
Like say Cam Johnson was available. Like why would the Nets?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo
I don't know which owner would go into next year going, yeah, let's just run it back. Like I, I, again, I still think that they were going to be pretty proactive about trying to figure out a way to save, even if they'd won the whole thing. I mean, it just was going to be tough. And so we've already covered the PR part of it of like the first thing you do is start saving money.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo
Um, but it's a little different when you're spending 6 billion on a team as opposed to a few hundred million, like it used to be back in the day for these teams. So, uh, the drew contract, I think all of us probably deserve a redo on not going like, hey, he's a great guy and he's such a good leader and he's so good on defense. You're like, what are those numbers again?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo
I mean, it's three years, 105 million for Drew Holiday.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo
Porzingis has missed 65 games since he's been with the Celtics. So when they made the trade and you think about the ceiling version of it, because the ceiling version of it's really good, stretches the floor, defends the rim. But this past year was a disaster. I mean, they were 18.7 points better per 100 possessions with them off the floor. So even with the 30.7 million left on this deal.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo
I don't know why anybody trades for that. I mean, again, all of these guys are tradable, so I'm not saying they're these movable contracts, but I'm surprised that you're so bullish on the market for Drew. I would feel like with $105 million remaining for him.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo
Doable or you have to attach something to it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo
He's coming off his worst year in a really long time.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo
So if you're taking back a worse player with a shorter contract for a ton of money, okay, maybe. If you think you're getting an asset back that's a rotational guy for this team next year and sending out, you know, him making $37 million plus at, what, 37 years old, 36 or 37. Yeah. That's a huge ask.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo
I definitely would hit you up.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo
I would say, and I hate that I'm.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo
Far too often all of us just say, hit the magic reset button as if there's all of these scenarios out there for these teams to get better and not realizing the teams are trying to compete and be a little bit better. But next year without Tatum is most likely a loss cause. And Jalen, as expensive as he is, he's an NBA Finals MVP. And he's still young enough that I would try to flip him
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo
And look at next year as like this gap year of getting in some kind of assets to then reset because you're going to have to reset it around Tatum anyway. Al's going to be gone.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo
Yeah, and look, it doesn't guarantee anything, and it'd be a lot easier to say, hey, Jalen's a really good player, and he'll be the number one option, and it's going to be fine, and who knows? You get into the playoffs, you see what'll happen. But I think you're just then delaying all of these other decisions that you're going to have to make
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo
So I would hope if I'm if I'm, you know, again, the Celtics, a lot of these things are connected. If Houston were to miss out on Giannis, I'd say Giannis isn't real forceful about it. Milwaukee kind of goes to the default of like, hey, run this back. But granted, I think we'll have a Giannis conversation here anyway, at some point.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo
You may be getting in front of something you probably have to do in 2026 anyway, and then resetting this thing around Tatum. And it would be really bold. It'd be probably hard to do because it's a new ownership group that doesn't have the equity of Wick and his group, or Wick was explaining it, ownership that never spared any expense.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo
They could probably pull it off quicker than who's this new guy, and then they just traded Jalen Brown. But I'm serious. I think I would try to figure out a way to get a few assets back and, and reset the salary deck that way. And then hope, you know, granted you've got to be right around the things you're bringing back in around Tatum and do it that way.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo
Cause you may be getting in front of something you have to do pretty soon. And it's probably going to be a lot less options.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo
Yeah, it'd be nice, but now you don't get that option for 25-26.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo
I'd add something else onto the Houston thing, because I think the Giannis thing is going to be a big... influence on like how, or does Houston do all the legwork for some sort of Giannis deal? And then it's just pulled back.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo
Yeah, right.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo
It was the most talked about thing at the combine.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo
Yeah. And I'd say like the conversations are kind of all over the place that it's definitely happening that, you know, it's or the other side of it is that he actually hasn't initiated any of this stuff.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo
I've talked to teams that spoke with his agent where it's like, if anything were to happen, you know, we're kind of like hinting in these areas of like semantics. It's like, hey, nothing's really happened.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo
But if anything were to happen, I think the most important thing to remember is that it's probably not a free market kind of deal where Milwaukee is going to be telling Giannis and his agent, hey, guess what we did today? All right. Even with control for a couple of years here. the standard usually is for somebody at this level, we're talking about one of the three best players in the world, that
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo
he's going to have input on where he would be going. Now, if he's open to four or five different teams, then this is a different transaction as opposed to guys in the past where it's like, hey, I have a year left on my deal. And if you trade me anywhere else, I'm not going to resign. So then that destroys the trade market.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo
And then it's like, all right, how many swaps can we throw in this thing to make it look like it was that good of a trade? And you're kind of screwed, which I think is another conversation that you would have if you're the Bucks going, Okay. If Giannis is fine with it. Okay. And I know I've said that in the past. Like if he told me, Hey, I'm good with Milwaukee, that's all I'd need to hear.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo
And you hope to win 48, 50 games and, and to your point, see what's going on in the East. I mean, it's not the worst scenario, but if I'm getting the feeling like it's going to be way worse in 26, then I might just want to get this thing over with now and bring back players, um,
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo
I'd like to revisit my options. You're just going to keep scrolling right on this one. On the spot check thing.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo
Like, well, that's really nice. It's a cool place. But we like a lot of other potential pieces more than Kaminga.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo
There's no way I'm bringing Draymond in. to be like, okay, we need more from you on offense because now Curry's not running around you for a decade.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo
Yeah, because I thought it strengthened his case considering everything that he had to deal with in Houston. But Randall, I mean, Randall's just off the charts right now.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo
You know, can you send us AJ so we can do an AJ Sam Merrill backcourt?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo
Well, it could be, you know, whatever result we get. And certainly if a Denver had won this game today and you're going, this is about as wide open a final four as I could ever remember. Right. And now it feels like there's even more pressure on OKC considering what's on the East. Yeah. Even though there's part of me that really just doesn't want to overlook this Minnesota team.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo
Yeah, the only reason I'd be so quick on the Milwaukee side is that I'm emphasizing I'd rather do something now if I get the hint that it's like, okay, we're fine for now, but I'm going to have to do this all over again next year with another year of miles on Giannis. There's probably another just little nagging injury that'll happen. I mean, this guy's on an all-time tear.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo
He was great again this year. I don't have a negative thing to say about him. I mean, hell... The fact that he addressed the Halliburton's dad thing the way that he did, where he composed himself, thought about what he was going to say, and gave you this incredibly heartfelt answer.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo
I'm such a huge fan of this guy, not only because of stuff like that, but knowing that when he takes the floor, he wants to kill everybody out there. And I want to see him get another run. So I realize I'm losing the trade on Talon out for Talon in, And wondering, OK, like even the best version of Mobley, it's likely he's not going to be finishing top five in the MVP race like five years in a row.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo
And I think Giannis is going to be what, like seven years in a row, top four or something like that. So we all love him. We all think he's fantastic. But it would be OK, comparing Mobley to the rest of the potential, like make believe stuff that we're doing here. it's better than maybe even a men Thompson. It's better than the number two pick or the number three pick.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo
I mean, some of the stuff that I've read in the days removed from the combine of like Houston, if they were going to do something in San Antonio was going to do something like what they wouldn't trade. It's like, look, Castle had a nice year, but Giannis, like, give me a fucking break. You're going to have to trade Castle. Houston has these pieces where it's like, dude,
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo
They're not doing it for Cam Whitmore. You don't get to keep everybody. Yeah. You're going to have to like Jabari or Jalen or a Shingun. Like one of the three has to go. And then you're figuring out the rest of the part. And if it's Jalen.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo
Yeah. Right. Right. Because like, oh, no, I'm in. No Tari. No Reed Shepard. No Shingun. Don't give up on Jalen yet.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo
But it's it's been an easy run for them the first couple of rounds here. So, yeah, bigger picture overall. You know, I'd mentioned this before with the SEC and college football where, well, eventually they were going to lose a national championship. Yeah. There was going to be a stretch. Now they have a 1-1 in back-to-back years, which seems odd, but it's like that's more normal.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo
Uh... Yeah, I also think there's like a conversation in there about, you know, was there so much freedom of movement and so many players dictating things that they put enough restrictions in there? It was like, OK, you can be as mad as you want. You can want to go there. But now I legally can't even do the thing that you want to do.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo
Now, granted, it's about, to your point, giving yourself a credit limit on a card that even though you could afford a higher credit limit, you're like, I need to figure out a way to curtail this because.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo
It's not just, you know, sometimes we lose sight of this. It's not, oh, well, they're keeping spending down across the board. It's like, no, that comes down to the negotiated split on the basketball revenue. So whatever the basketball revenue is and whatever the split is that's agreed upon, like that money's going to the players. So the lower...
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo
the lower apron or, you know, granted the caps going up every time, but whatever the money is, it only hurts the players in those off seasons. It's going to hurt them individually, but collectively these guys are still making what's agreed to with all this stuff.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo
But if it means more parody, and if we're seeing the first postseason of something that becomes more the norm, which I'm not ready to say. I mean, this could be a blip.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo
But is it going to be the norm moving forward? We don't know that yet. Whatever result we end up with, I think it's two things. One, I'd have to see it happen a lot to be like, okay, is it just such a different version of basketball that the regular season is completely pointless? Cause there's times where it feels like that. Yeah.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo
Yeah, I'm not ready to make any definitive statement about what we have for playoff teams, but if there is more parity and it's not just three guys teaming up and going somewhere, whether it's through free agency or demanding trades, and the next mad guy going, I'm mad, I want out, and I'm only going there, and we just all accepted it, Was that better?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo
Yeah, you're right. The free agent list is so bad and that's why it's so funny. It's like, well, there's not that much cap space. It's like, okay, but is there not that much cap space and guys aren't going to get paid or are a couple guys going to get paid a ton more than we thought because there's no one to pay?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo
So if I'm the Nets, I'm probably not looking to get into the Kaminga business at a huge number because it's probably pretty stupid. I think the best version of Kaminga, unless... everything clicks and he totally figures it out, it's probably like, all right, you run out there with a bad team and score your 20 points a game.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo
This dawned on me during some of the Jalen Green struggles and Kaminga playing really well where I had said in my pod, I was like, is Kaminga Jalen Green with less opportunity? Which seems like it's kind of insulting to Jalen Green. I'm not even sure that I'm certain.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo
But I, I think you can factor in the age part of Curry, LeBron and, You could throw Durant in there. You know, the Bucks, basically, it would make more sense that they would be like this five years after a championship, four years after a championship.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo
The thought popped in my head and I actually think that's unfair to Jalen Green. So I'm not, that's not my conclusion. It's just, hey, I'm sharing some thoughts every now and then. What like the non-taxpayer mid-levels 14 million. I mean, is there a non-tax team that goes, Hey, this is actually a pretty decent acquisition.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo
And the Detroit one, I think, is going to be different depending on the Cade stuff, too. So I think that could be.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo
I think it goes to 19.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo
Yeah, but that's only like five and a half million. The crazy thing is when you see the guy who's like seventh or eighth on a team and he immediately gets the two-year tax mid-level and he's just like, I'm afraid. I'm afraid to wait this thing out. So I'll just take that right now.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo
Yeah, but they weren't... Look, their agents... I mean, look, I know those guys, so I'm a little biased. They knew what was going to be out there and what wasn't going to be out there for Austin. So it's not like they jumped on something without all the information they needed.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo
It was more fun, right? It was, hey, this could happen.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo
No. I mean, I think I had it for the draft. I liked him better than Marcus Smart. Did you really? Yeah, I did.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo
I liked his playmaking. I liked the size. And there were times where I thought I was right. I mean, you want to talk about, this is like you and I revisiting the Pelicans-Lakers-Anthony Davis trade again, which you should probably do next week.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo
The number of times that you could have argued smart against Randall. And then it's like, it was this late to be able to argue like, yeah, actually.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo
Like that would be an incredible segment. Maybe not a great segment, maybe a real slow. You and I would enjoy it. Yeah. We'd like it, but just trying to figure out like, what are the longest possible? Are you like drafting one guy or the other guy?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo
Yeah. Like, can you get to year 14? We were like, I'm still not sure. Yeah.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo
Yeah, right. I mean, then once, you know, D'Antoni got there with Marion, you're like, all right, he's hitting threes and everything else. I have a couple of fake Celtics trades for you.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo
I want to stay on the Warriors thing, though, because I think there's a little bit of a lesson in this, in that the things you're battling and how tough the moment is versus all the decisions later on, because I would have not wanted to get into the Jimmy Butler business, okay? And then... Dunleavy basically is like, what are we doing? We're not doing anything. We got off to this great start.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo
We're terrible. And now it's everybody chasing Steph around and he has to take all these other shots because we don't trust like no one cares about any of the other four guys that are out there offensively and everything's on Steph. And so if we we're not really moving out anything of significance. Yeah. What are we actually disrupting?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo
And then they get attack on the extra massive year for Butler. Okay. Because like that becomes part of it, but you know, the beginning of the 25 calendar year, nobody cares about any of that stuff. And it looks like, how could you have questioned this? Butler has his joy back and all these different things. And you know, the playoffs are disappointing. Um, Also, Minnesota might be really good.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo
That's the other piece.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo
But there's, you know, I know Jimmy in the game where he took nine shots after the fact. He's like, hey, he was sick. I mean, this, by the way, this playoff season is unbelievable with the health and illness updates that we get from every team as soon as they're eliminated. And we're like... Our trainer had a cold. The pilot has eczema. You know, it was tough. It was tough for us at the end.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo
So you look at all of this Butler stuff and it's a huge celebration. And then it's almost like, how could you have not wanted Jimmy Butler? And he's so smart and he's doing all these different things. Then you're watching like take the first quarter off of playoff games. And then Steph is out and you're like, hey, dude, just shoot.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo
Because, I mean, another Pajemski off the dribble stuff isn't working. Draymond offensively, I mean, I know he hit four threes in that game. Thanks. But then you're like, all right, now we're kind of stuck and we're paying those three guys $140 million. And like, what's Jimmy going to be like with an expiring contract? Are we sure he was healthy? Jimmy?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo
And this may be the last version of a team that we ever see like this under the CBA with the Celtics. Now, if they'd won it and then were able to repeat you know, maybe new ownership comes in and is like, the last thing we can do is after winning two, screw this.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo
Well, because it wasn't. Well, you know what I mean. Is there anything for Draymond Green at 34 years old at 26 and a player option for 27 and a half? Is there anywhere? Yeah. I mean, is there anything that works there where you go, hey, it's been a great run, but we need to figure out something else.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo
I'm not talking about it as a salary dump. I'm just wondering if there's a specific value that he brings. What are you getting for him though? Well, you'd already have to have your offense pretty established because he can't go to another team and you're like, hey, we want you to shoot more. Because the offensive stuff with him now is like a major problem for them in the playoffs.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo
Could it be the Lakers? Are you doing a Reeves deal?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo
Yeah, but can't he just turn down the extension now and then sign for more with them if they want to keep him later on?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo
We're probably just going to have to take the tax hit because we'd rather take that financial hit than the PR hit of all the new guys are here and now they're dismantling a back-to-back champ. So I think the Celtics part of it with Tatum impacts this too.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo
Yeah. They can, I'm pretty sure they can wait. You're right. Because it's like the max, like the percentage off of the last year of the previous contract, because it was lower. I think that extension puts him way below market again. Yeah. But I think what they were waiting, which he was obviously going to do, I think there's a, a, they could actually then sign later on.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo
So I don't look, let me throw two at you though, because for warriors. No, just in general. Yeah. Would you do Tatum for Giannis?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo
He's 19 in December.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo
No, that's the right answer, but I... you know, there was all sorts of stuff where I know KOC had mentioned that the Celtics talked with Cooper flag. And by the way, Oh, at the combine. Yeah.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo
So when you go through all the different scenarios, you're like, okay, these individual things, but that second apron, I know we're going to do some of the, what are you going to do?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo
It sounded like a newsworthy item, and KOC mentioned it, so it wasn't as if he was reporting it as this, like, oh, my God, can you believe this? Once you understand how it works, they're like, yeah, we'll do the interview with him. We'll do the interview with the top guy.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo
And by the way, front offices, there's nothing they love more than doing stuff where they think they're collecting information, even if it's incredibly unlikely all of these rookies they're going to interview, they're never even going to have on their team.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo
Um, but I thought some of the Cooper stuff of like the hypotheticals and then realizing like, even if Nico and ownership were like, this actually makes a ton of sense. It makes a ton of sense for our window. Um, why would we do this? Like, why would we try to have two timelines, which seems like it never, ever works out except for maybe the Spurs.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo
But they just obviously couldn't do something like that months after they did what they did with Luka. But the longer term part of it, which is a lot like the Lakers side of it, which again, you're not going to say no to getting Luka for anybody. But it's like, even if this screws up the 25 part of it, which again, I don't know what Anthony Davis, how different it would have been.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo
Um, I'm not going to guess that he's healthy with them hurt with anybody else, but Cooper gives you the post AD, like, you know, what you can be and build around.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo
So it's, it's extending, like, it's not necessarily a championship window, but it's like, Hey, if Kyrie's this or AD is this and all these things, like we now have a new thing though, that we already have in place that if he's as good as everybody thinks he can be. the hardest thing to get in the league, which is again, why the Lakers, that's the discussion around the Lakers in 25.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo
The realization of what this is and that it is a hard cap with a different name And, you know, you're trying to figure out trades and then it's like, oh, I have I have a match. And it's like, actually, the team can't do this or if they do this, then they're hard capped because of where they're at right now. So, you know, there might just be more parity. This may lead to more parity.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo
It's like, all right, whatever even happens here, but you know, for the next five years or longer with Luca, like we have the first thing, which is the hardest thing to find because without it, there's no bigger question.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo
Is there a Davis Lakers trade that makes sense?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo
Reeves turned into Reeves. Like if Reeves turned into like, I don't know. I'm trying to think, you know, it's not Paolo, but like that level or Scotty Barnes two years ago when it seems like his, his values taking a massive hit, which I'm pushing against here. That's my position right now.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo
I don't think they would. I think for everything, you know, Nico Sopoc committed to the AD thing working out. I don't think they're going to do an injured sample. What if Booker was on the table?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo
I can't believe you just said, I'm not the person to ask. This is you. This is your entire life's work.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo
And we also are coming off of like two iconic runs. You know, some people look at the heat and try to dump on them for only getting two titles in four years. I think making it to four straight NBA finals is something that should be. And then you've got the Warriors putting together what I think is the best five we've ever seen in the history of this game.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo
A little Nick Claxton action?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo
I'm sure they're going to have to trade one of the centers.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo
Yeah, but Lively's a little different player when it's not Luka.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo
pretty interesting yeah because bassini was really good on this as he always is uh from the athletic on the draft stuff and he was talking about how you know philly because of daryl you'd expect you know big into the models um but not i don't know that any team would go hey this is what our model says and now this is all we're doing but that bailey on something like stuff is not a not a daryl guy i've been trying to tell people that he's edgecom i think is more in the daryl vicinity
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo
So we're coming off of like a decade of that into these last five years and then looking forward with even more restrictions. So maybe we're just too influenced by thinking that that was normal when Miami and Golden State was not normal.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo
Yeah, but then you think, hey, they have Maxie McCain. I feel like Edgecombe, with his motor and the way he attacks the rim, there's just another level of, hey, some guys get to the rim. I look at the NBA and go, okay, whenever we say it's really hard to stay in front of this guy, well, the way defenses are so... sophisticated now and everybody kind of understands like game in and game out.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo
OK, and then there's Ant. And in college, somebody can be really good and special athletic. You're like, all right, but can this guy consistently just get to the rim? You know, that's really hard to do when a team is ready for it. And Edgecombe felt like he consistently was just in this other gear consistently. In comparison to other guys that are playing college basketball.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo
So does that translate over to the NBA and everything? So, you know, it'd be interesting if there's no deal there for Philly. If they go, it doesn't make a lot of sense because of who we've invested in and nailing the McCain pick last year to throw another small player in like this.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo
I think it's a good reminder with San Antonio and the Danny things, right. Cause of the Tatum year, uh, where it just was like, how could you not take faults? And I just love that Danny was like, I don't, I don't see it, you know, and you've got to have some stones. Uh, you have to have like years of, of everybody just accepting you to go ahead and do some of that stuff.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo
Yeah, right. He had that would have been the year. Well, again, that was the year they ended up winning the title. But the reason they were able to do everything they did is because they didn't win the lottery or didn't get one of the two first two picks. So the funny thing is, is that all of that probably would have been delayed and maybe they don't do the right now.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo
Maybe this construction, but not the success. Because I don't think the success is normal.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo
Well, they wouldn't have done the Ray Allen deal because that was a Jeff Green pick. And then maybe, you know, likely means they're not giving them falling to five led to the title. Yeah, you're right. You're right. So I would say other teams, though, certainly think it's Harper, too. So maybe you're right about San Antonio thinking outside of the box.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo
I'd say consensus is Harper's, too, in this draft. But I like the Herb Jones thing. I know when you put these trades together and we sit here and we were like, all right, and then we just end up talking about it for five minutes. We're like, yeah, that's not going to happen or that doesn't make any sense. Philly, probably.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo
doesn't want to wait on another guy i mean if somebody's special and they do all the evaluation it's like hey this is still the best value we'll sit there at three but herb jones healthy again gives you stuff that very few wing defenders gives you there's one more trade back for them brooklyn is at they're at eight with the cam johnson pick with cam johnson and eight
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo
And that may be what they're stuck with. But I think your approach and your strategy, if you're... going back into it and be like, all right, the whole thing this offseason is health. Be ready to go. Limit the minutes for these guys. See what you have and what feels like a more open East with the Tatum injury, with Milwaukee likely kind of stuck a little bit.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo
Maybe the Knicks and the Pacers are the favorites to win the East going into next year because everybody's going to be so pissed off about Cleveland. Although the odds are they're going to be the odds on favor, at least to be the one seed in the East if everything stays status quo. But we know that's not going to happen.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo
But even if they want to do all those things, and if you start looking at going, okay, is this a veteran that actually helps us or is it just a veteran? Right. I don't know if John Collins, like, yeah, this makes sense. Same timeline.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo
They're not going to give you Pippen. I think Pippen's good.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo
How long would you wait after they said no to Conchar or Pippen before you called back and asked for just Conchar? You'd have to give it a few days, right?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo
But if you're Detroit, I mean, they're going to see the same thing that we've been talking about here being like, how much does it cost last year? Three years from now, 37 million. At that point, Cade's making his massive contract, which is the highest version of it because of the escalator. You've got to, at that point, figure out what you're paying Ivy, um, Duren and Sarr.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo
So that's, that feels like one of those deals. And now maybe they go, Hey, by that point, Tobias is expiring, which I would imagine, um,
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo
No, because you're going to put nine and 10 in there. So I don't think 25 is on the list. It's not on the list.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo
I mean, I know a lot to ask, man.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo
game one fine i can't believe they did it again in game two and tatum going down to say well that that game was we'd already seen it two other times so sure they're like there's randomness of the okc denver stuff where okc looked like a terrible team in the fourth quarter a couple times yes denver looked like a terrible team there in the fourth quarter when tatum went down
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo
if you're a Celtics fan, you cannot use that injury as an excuse for the outcome of that game. I mean, sure. You can hit me with the, you don't know what's going to happen with three minutes left and this team. Okay, fine. It didn't feel that fucking way, man. Like that felt like in that span, when they got down to them, it's like, Oh my God, they're actually going to lose this series.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo
And then the Tatum part is just the bad news on top of everything else. So I think we're on the same page with that one.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo
The Mitchell Robinson stuff, man.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo
That possession on Jalen in the corner when he defended everybody.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo
Is any of this true? No, it is.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo
I loved watching him play last year. I know I've mentioned that Philly Knicks series for an early round series last year. It was like one of my favorite series of the last few years and the intensity of it all. And clearly like Brunson's more comfortable, which doesn't make any sense considering the Celtics team and everything they've gone through.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo
But he's more comfortable in those moments than anybody on the Celtics. And that was going to keep happening. It's a great plan. And I know how I felt. Like I could do a much bigger... You know, one of my favorite things about the combine is just like what the dudes who do this every single day think about this sport, where it's going.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo
And, you know, are we now away from like we just accepted small balls? Like, well, it makes a lot of sense. Like, why would you want some big plotting guy out there who's not as skilled? Put your five best skilled players like what took us so long to get to this point?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo
and now we're seeing in a real way, pretty quickly, the teams are going, you know what I really like is controlling the glass and having a second rebounds. It also helps that some of these big guys can both stretch the floor offensively, which, you know, maybe a shot and then get it back and then take another shot.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo
No, but I started thinking about it and, you know, look, I don't love doing this. The week Tatum blows out his Achilles, but,
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo
It was another thought that I had where, you know, I remember I've talked about the usage rate stuff of like, if you look at the history of like the highest usage rate seasons and how many, I haven't updated the numbers recently, but more often than not, those teams didn't do very well in the playoffs.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo
Um, now the counter to that can immediately be the reason the guy's high usage is that high is because the rest of the team isn't that good. And that means that's why those, those teams didn't do anything. I think both things can actually be true.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo
I think if you do something in the regular season where it's always in one guy's hands over and over and over again, like, I think there's probably a Donovan Mitchell conversation about that, that he defaults back to the Utah jazz version of him where it's so dynamic. And when he's rolling, he looks like one of the five best options of the ball in his hands.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo
But then, right, then nobody else is doing anything. Guys aren't boxing out as hard because they're sitting there watching. They're not playing defense as hard because they're like, this guy's going to take 30-something shots again. And, you know, for the most part, I really like Donovan Mitchell because when it's right, it's probably one of the most fun things to watch in the NBA.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo
So if you allow me to take my time here in making the point, you know, I was talking with just different people just bullshitting about the game. And I was like, this isn't even about Tatum so much as, Like when you see it going bad for the Celtics and everybody knows, I mean, it's unbelievable. It's like there's a warning sign or a reader.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo
Yeah, it's like a major dinner like this. With like four minutes to go, interrupts the broadcast and goes, and here's the point where they're going to hunt for switches and then settle for bad threes. And it's going to be a lot of isolation.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo
Are we in a parallel of this small ball to now the too big? And I, I'm going to say it one more time. Also known as center power forward, which is pretty accepted for a long time. Yeah, it was working. Have we gone so far away from the traditional point guard who may not even, he may just be extinct now. I don't even know if there, there may be a couple of the zoo.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo
There's no I kept thinking about like Gary Payton in some of these games where you can see the best player, you know, whether it's a Mitchell or whether it's a Tatum or some of these other dudes that are like MVP caliber players that are just like, hey, this is kind of what we do. Like, I'm the best player. The math says that I have to have the ball. The math says I have to take the shot.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo
But that means that it's kind of pretty predictable. Like what? I'm going to do. So the defense is more prayer prep for it. They can help off a little bit more. Cause it's just not likely that we want like any of these other three guys, even shooting, uh, I wonder if Gary Payton watches some of this stuff and goes, hey, after three of these in a row, let's do something different.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo
I'm going to take the ball. I'm going to tell everybody what to do. And I'm going to get us a good look because the way I'm programmed to play this game is to figure out the best possession for us and not necessarily saying, hey, an open three in this spot gives us this many points per shot, points per possession. So it's not even like an anti-analytic.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo
I don't think a Chris Paul or any of the guys you just named would let that many possessions go as bad as we've seen with the high usage. And we're talking about some of the best players in the sport, players that have had huge accomplishments, a few of these guys that have won rings.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo
I think it's a great, the way he collapses a defense because of his handle and because of his size and you can see, and then he's keeping like almost Jokic ish. He keeps all of these passing lane options open. Like he's not just throwing to a corner. He's not just hitting the role, man. He's thinking like, okay, I have a few different things.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo
As soon as I can get into the defense and get them to collapse, I'm going to find a couple.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo
Yeah, we are like combo guard, the tweener thing. Like it used to be bad. Well, he's kind of a combo. He's not really a one or he's not really a two. Now it's mandatory that you're the one, but you're really all of these ones play as twos.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo
And has the game in those huge playoff moments, have we lost...
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo
that part of the game those guys that had that talent to go it doesn't guarantee you anything but hey we just did this three times let's do something different it sounds simple but i think the game is missing that a little bit because what would you look at that too yeah but uh because that got really stale in the dallas boston series specifically
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo
You're talking about the bad part of it where it's predictably the same thing over and over again.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo
Maybe we should appreciate LeBron more.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo
Well, I would give you this, though, because what this game asks bigs to do now defensively... It's insane.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo
Macedonia. I just had a guy, he was driving me in Chicago. He's from Macedonia. He told me the NBA was fixed. It was a long hour.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo
It's going to end up being historically bad because it just reminds me so many times throughout you know, I'm not trying to go super deep here, but in life, the way we label things to lie to ourselves about what something really is. Yeah. And after we did that pod, I ran into a couple of guys from a front office shortly after and And somebody said like, Hey, did you go through?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo
But he always should have been because he was pretty good with the ball in his hands. I always felt, and I know I interviewed him and I asked about this. I go, you're going to spend your entire career out of position because you end up having to play center. And you should have been a power forward who had the ball a little bit more. And of course, it's Al Horford.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo
So he's like, yeah, you know, whatever. Blake Griffin's another one.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo
It's just a lot of philosophical stuff that I think is really great, especially when you're talking to the guys that think about the game every single day of their lives. It doesn't mean everybody agrees. It's not like I came back from the combine and like 10 teams said the exact same thing about the way they see the game.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo
But I'd say there is a sentiment from a few of the guys that I talked to that were like, There's just a lot of this stuff that gets really repetitive and really predictable at the ends of these games. And it feels like almost the default setting for all those teams. They're like, look at OKC to bring it full circle.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo
They had to figure out the second thing because the SGA take you from the top high ball screen. And then now you're chasing him and he's pulling up from every single angle, full speed to straight up in the air where he's working you for three free throws.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo
Like OKC could not go to that as consistent as they wanted to or as they had throughout the regular season because Denver was prioritizing just clog all this stuff up at the top. And, you know, it almost makes me think the Celtics would have just kept running that.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo
I picked him this summer. I'm picking him again. I'm, again, surprised the odds are that in their favor. But maybe it's because I thought the Thunder were going to dispose of Denver a little bit earlier. Well, I did.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo
Clippers are probably saying the same thing.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo
I was like, yeah, Bill and I went through it, but you never feel like, unless you're like a capologist or a lawyer, you're like, I'm, you know, how am I possibly screwing this up? Or what are the unintended consequences? And I was like, man, it feels like a hard cap. And the guy just, I didn't, I didn't even know the guy. And he just looks at me and goes, it is a hard cap. Yeah, it is a hard cap.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo
This is a coin toss. I'm taking the Pacers. You know, there's not really much. I mean, their first three games were October, November, and February. Right. And the Pacers are a better defensive team than they were. And, you know, here were two teams I thought had a lot of similarities in that, man, I like them and I like...
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo
They're top-level scoring, but are you really weak at point guard defensively, and then you're really weak at the rim defensively? So I felt like they kind of emulated each other, even though the Pacers, as we've mentioned numerous times, a big reason why this has happened in this turnaround is that they're able to get stops now in ways that you just didn't expect.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo
We always knew they were going to score. It was like that team is not going to get a high – they're not going to get multiple high-level stops. They need to get them. Um, so now when I look at these two things, I mean, I can understand the next side of this and the argument. And I would throw in a little thing about the Knicks fans though. Everything you said, totally fine.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo
Um, and look, this is kind of what this is now. Get a bunch of dudes together, do crazy shit, film it. I mean, we've got this generation throwing stuff at strangers and target and posting it. So like, this is not new and it isn't any different than anybody who's young at some point when it's like, would I do this by myself? Nope. But what I do it with, there were 50 of us. Yep. Probably would.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo
But leave Brian Windhorst the fuck alone. Okay. Yeah. Just leave Windhorst alone. And Chuck D, again, a legend. We don't need him.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo
tweeting wind worst which may be his worst bar of all time um i mean chuck d is like unimpeachable for just a million reasons and how awesome he was but maybe he was you know look he's a knicks fan the knicks fans get so upset at wind horse and it's like dude i don't understand that it'd be just here to get we're here to give our opinions on what we're watching right and here's the thing when we're wind horse is like of all the good guys out there leave wind horse alone okay
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo
And I was like, OK, all right. So that confirms. And now that we've had a couple of years of like looking at what this is going to be, you know, it's even more of a credit to Presti, who I believe was like in on the meetings on some of this stuff. So you're going to like this. It reminds me of like when Belichick would just always trade out of where he was in the first round.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo
The fact that they got down that big on the road and you're thinking most teams, go, whatever. Like, all right, they're all hyped. They go to the three. We're going home. We still have two more chances. And then they come back, and then they just close it. The way they close that game, that is one of the most impressive things any team has done in any game during this postseason.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo
You got Matherin.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo
Yeah, Halliburton talks shit. Like, though, Nemhart. I'm just telling Knicks fans right now, be prepared for Nemhart to drive into OG. Maybe it'll be Josh Hart. It'll be one of the perimeter guys. It'll be McHale, OG, or Hart, where you're going to think... that Knicks player after that collision who will get called for the foul and Nembhardt will get the end one.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo
But Nembhardt, it is like a crash test dummy level of impact. It could be organ damage. So if a guy is out with internal organ damage, game four, questionable or whatever, there's going to be a Nembhardt collision where he gets going. Again, I just think most people just kind of watch their team. The number of games where I've watched Nembhardt do that, and then he gets the call.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo
Um, and you know, look, there's going to be, there's going to be a really rough Brunson night in there for Pacers fans where you're going to go, this is happening all the time. Like, yeah, yeah, it is. It is.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo
And then if you just keep doing it year after year, it's like, man, they have this many picks or they have another couple. Like it felt like for years he had two first to maneuver around with because he just kept doubling down on the approach.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo
Because the other side of the Knicks thing first, and you're right about everything you said, is I just keep thinking of Miles Turner and then the Thomas Bryant minutes where Carlisle must just be like, oh, I can't believe it. I can't believe this is what I've got to do. And it's like, okay, if the Knicks front line beat up on the Celtics front line, you know, because Prazingis, the
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo
Granted, it's worked a lot better for Presti than it did Belichick, but if he understood all of this stuff and we kept wondering, which is another conversation too, had OKC somehow lost this game at home in Game 7, does that mean that they're more motivated to start going off-season shopping and packaging some of these assets?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo
whatever point I knew what Missoula, it seemed like Missoula was hoping like, can this just wake up? Right. Can it wake up at some point? It never happened. They bet him in that second half of that game because they said he couldn't breathe. But I mean, he just, he was that bad, but you still had Cornette. You still had Horford out there battling.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo
Maybe the Knicks, maybe this becomes more of a cat thing. But see, cat was actually like, look, he didn't hit any threes. He was really good in game six. The on the glass stuff and the putbacks and just being big and being physical and being quicker to the ball and all that kind of stuff. I don't know why that would get worse against the Pacers. If anything, it should get better.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo
I mean, Mitchell's just going to be a cleanup guy. It's not like they're going to give him touches and actually run something with him there.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo
Derek White was bad, too, against him. And then that's why Jalen ended up having to play him.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo
Brunson was looking for Horford. I thought Horford held up really well. But then when it was the Przingis stuff, it was just a disaster. But look, Neesmith... we'll see what happens here because there's part of the Jokic conversation where it does get really annoying with Jokic too, as much as we all love him.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo
Like when he pins the defender's arms into his arms and then screams with his palms up and you're like, dude, you're doing all of this right now. But then there's other plays too, because he's so big. where he's just getting swiped at the entire time. It's like, okay, but they're not going to call all these fouls.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo
So if you have Caruso, if you have Jalen Williams, if you have the two bigs, if you have the other Jalen Williams, you're talking about like 30 fouls you can throw at this guy, and if they get to the bonus quicker, no problem. We'd still rather them get to the bonus and try to just physically attack this guy the entire time.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo
It'll be very interesting to see what the fouls are like on Neesmith in the first quarter against Brunson. Because Neesmith should foul out of every game he's in.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo
But the smaller guy gets the calls more. I mean, Brunson is drawing. It's not free throws. Brunson is drawing the second most free throws of any player the last time I looked at it. And I think during the regular season, Giannis was the only player that drew more free throws excuse me, drew more personal fouls because that's another thing that happens with this Brunson debate.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo
It's like, oh, well, look at his free throw and all these different things. Like, dude, he's number two in the NBA. I'll look it up right now just to make sure I don't get this wrong because obviously it's going to piss everybody off. I thought he was top three. Per game, I think he was second to only Giannis. Right. Now, look, somebody has to be number one, number two, number three.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo
Or is it to the longer view of Presti realizes all the restrictions, how hard it would be to keep together this roster? And that even if they win this whole thing, he has the flexibility to tweak and make tougher decisions because he just feels like he's stockpiling and their track record would tell you they're better positioned than anybody to do so.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo
But I'm going to look it up just because I don't want to get this wrong. And I'm almost positive I had it right. All right, so he's drawing seven and a half fouls per game during the playoffs. In the regular season.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo
Some of them were overturned. Yeah. So like, you know, Giannis was number one at seven and a half during the regular season. Brunson was number two.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo
Those bridges, those bridges makes the start of the fourth quarter in game two. Um, the other game, like those non Brunson minutes to start the fourth quarter, letting bridges cook, man. It's one of my favorite things about this. Cause he has that in his game.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo
When I talked to Tibbs about the 2009 team, I was in a room with him.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo
I don't think the Knicks fan base would have celebrated the same way if it wasn't the Boston-New York thing and the fact that there was all of these matchup things that I thought were going to be a problem for New York. And... Even if they were, because it's the times when Celtics had to leave, you're going, all right, this makes sense. This is what it was supposed to look like.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo
And it's like, oh, okay. Brunson is so fired up in this spot and you guys are not.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo
Yeah. Let's talk hoops.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo
I'm glad you said that because it's exactly what I saw. And the Jalen Williams game six performance was so disappointing because then you're thinking, okay, I don't even know what to expect from this guy. Somebody that was supposed to have his off playoff games. Maybe we're a little unfair. It's like, okay, you're a young guy. You weren't great against Dallas.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo
You couldn't be counted on as that second scorer at SGA. You need that second guy to create – on the ball when everything's a mess. And if you don't have it, you're so limited as a playoff team. And, you know, I think there was something to be desired there based on, you know, you can look at the final box scores of the Dallas series and be like, oh, it wasn't all that bad. It's just funny.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo
I think that stuff becomes the most misleading stuff. Like there's some efficiency stuff that I'll look at with a player in a series and go, there's no way he was this, like, this is a bad reflection. These metrics are too rewarding to however he played because just in the moment you needed more from him. So he has that abominable game six.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo
But at Denver, and look, I think it's fair to say, even for a guy like Jalen Williams, at Denver, going up against the best player in the world, you get the Strother game out of nowhere. I mean, he was wide open, one, because of Jokic, and two, because it felt like OKC was like, hey, do you want to guard this guy? It was like, no, we don't want to guard him at all.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo
There was a couple five-man stretches that Adelman, even he had to be looking at the scorer's table going, I can't believe I have to do this right now. But in that first quarter, I'm like, what's up with Hartenstein? After he missed those two floaters in the baseline earlier in the series, it's like, does he not want to shoot that anymore?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo
Jalen Williams getting a couple open looks, and there were so many open looks that were great looks. in Game 6, and it looked like he was going to be tight again. And I'm thinking, this can't possibly – he's not going to be this bad Game 6 and Game 7, is he? I mean, he had a three. Denver's playing so much zone. They're collapsing the top for SGA. So SGA's getting cut off. It's kind of working.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo
And there's a kick out to the right side a little bit later in the game where Jalen Williams just turns it down. And I'm thinking, like, you don't even want to take... I remember that. You have to take this shot. But what I loved about game six is that against that Denver zone, if you could find any way to collapse...
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo
there were all sorts of points waiting for you on guys just cutting on the baseline and in the dunker spot. You saw more of that with the Chet. They had one play where Chet passed to Caruso, and he made a layup. Caruso beat his man, and Dort was coming from the other side. Both baseline cutters are wide open.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo
So, you know, there was a lot of stuff that I saw in six that I thought, if they can just go, hey, when they zone us, because they're going to like crazy –
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo
Right, right. So, you know, there's a lot of stuff, but the fact that Jalen Williams stepped up and played the way he did today, and I think there was like one drive where you could tell, okay, he's now feeling it a little bit. You could see his confidence was at a completely different place.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Jon Stewart on a Knicks Disaster, the Soto Era, His ‘Daily Show’ Comeback, Bad Biden Coverage, and New York Fans | Plus: Is an OKC Title Now Inevitable?
Even after the faculty, like.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Jon Stewart on a Knicks Disaster, the Soto Era, His ‘Daily Show’ Comeback, Bad Biden Coverage, and New York Fans | Plus: Is an OKC Title Now Inevitable?
No, we were going through it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Jon Stewart on a Knicks Disaster, the Soto Era, His ‘Daily Show’ Comeback, Bad Biden Coverage, and New York Fans | Plus: Is an OKC Title Now Inevitable?
But you're older.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Jon Stewart on a Knicks Disaster, the Soto Era, His ‘Daily Show’ Comeback, Bad Biden Coverage, and New York Fans | Plus: Is an OKC Title Now Inevitable?
Yeah, really mad at you.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Jon Stewart on a Knicks Disaster, the Soto Era, His ‘Daily Show’ Comeback, Bad Biden Coverage, and New York Fans | Plus: Is an OKC Title Now Inevitable?
New Jon Hamm show on Apple? Jump in a couple episodes? Yeah, yeah.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Jon Stewart on a Knicks Disaster, the Soto Era, His ‘Daily Show’ Comeback, Bad Biden Coverage, and New York Fans | Plus: Is an OKC Title Now Inevitable?
Did they practice it with you though?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Jon Stewart on a Knicks Disaster, the Soto Era, His ‘Daily Show’ Comeback, Bad Biden Coverage, and New York Fans | Plus: Is an OKC Title Now Inevitable?
Yeah.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Jon Stewart on a Knicks Disaster, the Soto Era, His ‘Daily Show’ Comeback, Bad Biden Coverage, and New York Fans | Plus: Is an OKC Title Now Inevitable?
Right. Mike, I think she might be the best woman's player ever. Like right now. And it just, it just would go all in and be like, wow, this is an incredible, incredible take.