Dr. Richard Winters
Appearances
Creating Confidence with Heather Monahan
Confidence Classic: How To Lead At ANY Level, With Dr. Richard Winters The Director Of Leadership Development For The Mayo Clinic
As leaders, I think we have these areas of expertise where we do make decisions that are rapid based on our experience and our knowledge and all that sort of stuff.
Creating Confidence with Heather Monahan
Confidence Classic: How To Lead At ANY Level, With Dr. Richard Winters The Director Of Leadership Development For The Mayo Clinic
And so for me as an emergency physician, I go in, I see patients, take a brief history, and then I write orders, like not suggestions, I write orders, right? And so then as I become a leader, is that how you lead effectively? No. Right. So like run a meeting and then say, OK, this is what I think. And then write orders. I've heard what you all have to say.
Creating Confidence with Heather Monahan
Confidence Classic: How To Lead At ANY Level, With Dr. Richard Winters The Director Of Leadership Development For The Mayo Clinic
But after careful consideration, I've come to the conclusion you're all incorrect.
Creating Confidence with Heather Monahan
Confidence Classic: How To Lead At ANY Level, With Dr. Richard Winters The Director Of Leadership Development For The Mayo Clinic
No. And so as leaders, I think we have these areas of expertise where we do make decisions. that are rapid based on our experience and our knowledge and all that sort of stuff.
Creating Confidence with Heather Monahan
Confidence Classic: How To Lead At ANY Level, With Dr. Richard Winters The Director Of Leadership Development For The Mayo Clinic
But really, the majority of our time as we become leaders is kind of shedding that expertise and then stepping back and helping groups, facilitating groups to come together around these really complex issues, whether that's during times of crisis or whether that's time where we have a little bit of more time to kind of look forward.
Creating Confidence with Heather Monahan
Confidence Classic: How To Lead At ANY Level, With Dr. Richard Winters The Director Of Leadership Development For The Mayo Clinic
So for me, as I was a teenager and then I grew up and then went to medical school, I had no idea how to take care of patients and then go to medical school. And then all of a sudden I start to learn about parts of the body and disease processes and things that we can do to help people get better.
Creating Confidence with Heather Monahan
Confidence Classic: How To Lead At ANY Level, With Dr. Richard Winters The Director Of Leadership Development For The Mayo Clinic
Then I become an emergency medicine resident and now I know how to take care of patients when they come in the door. like with lots of different things, that's all process and knowledge coming together. And so as leaders, we have a lot of knowledge. I think a lot of us coming together as organizations is having the processes that help us to come together and look around kind of blind spots.
Creating Confidence with Heather Monahan
Confidence Classic: How To Lead At ANY Level, With Dr. Richard Winters The Director Of Leadership Development For The Mayo Clinic
And it's helpful for us to develop this sort of common language about that. And so like, let me refer back to the, you know, as I was talking about the Kenevan framework, it's helpful for us to know that there are certain situations where best practice work. Where these are the things that we've always done and they always work in the situation. Like I know how to sit in a chair, bottom first.
Creating Confidence with Heather Monahan
Confidence Classic: How To Lead At ANY Level, With Dr. Richard Winters The Director Of Leadership Development For The Mayo Clinic
We would all agree upon that. We all know how, so when a patient comes in with a trauma into the emergency department and there are set things that we do, there are best practices that we do, we all agree upon them. Okay, so now put that aside. So those are the things we all agree upon. Those are easy. Then there are decisions where it actually requires expertise.
Creating Confidence with Heather Monahan
Confidence Classic: How To Lead At ANY Level, With Dr. Richard Winters The Director Of Leadership Development For The Mayo Clinic
And so if I have a patient who's having a heart attack, I'm going to call a cardiologist. I'm not going to call an orthopedic surgeon. They have different expertise. And so there are these situations that we face in our kind of organizational lives where you want to ask marketing what's going on. You want to ask engineering what's going on. And those are the complicated sorts of things.
Creating Confidence with Heather Monahan
Confidence Classic: How To Lead At ANY Level, With Dr. Richard Winters The Director Of Leadership Development For The Mayo Clinic
And so it's helpful for us to be sitting in meetings and saying, yeah, I think this is best practice. Okay, yeah, I think this is complicated. Let's ask the experts. It's also helpful for us to know during those times when we're all disagreeing and when the emotions are running high that we're in a space where actually we need to stop our expertise. We need to stop leveraging our past practices.
Creating Confidence with Heather Monahan
Confidence Classic: How To Lead At ANY Level, With Dr. Richard Winters The Director Of Leadership Development For The Mayo Clinic
And we need to start coming together as groups to make decisions. Just that alone can be helpful. Because what often happens is we're sitting in meetings and you have an individual who thinks, well, this is best practice. I don't know why we're even talking about this. Someone else is like, well, I'm the expert. I've been through this. Do you know I did this before?
Creating Confidence with Heather Monahan
Confidence Classic: How To Lead At ANY Level, With Dr. Richard Winters The Director Of Leadership Development For The Mayo Clinic
Why don't you just listen to me? And then someone else is thinking, you know, I think this is a lot bigger than what we're thinking and we need to. So we're very confused, and we don't even come together as a group about what sort of process we should be using to be making the decision. And so that's an example for a leader. Just if the leader knows that process, they can be aware of it.
Creating Confidence with Heather Monahan
Confidence Classic: How To Lead At ANY Level, With Dr. Richard Winters The Director Of Leadership Development For The Mayo Clinic
And then if everyone in the group knows the process, now we have this kind of common language. I think what's going on right now is this is a complex issue, and maybe we need to step back. The loud voices maybe need to be less loud. The softer voices maybe need to be raised, and we need to come together around all these disagreements.
Creating Confidence with Heather Monahan
Confidence Classic: How To Lead At ANY Level, With Dr. Richard Winters The Director Of Leadership Development For The Mayo Clinic
Yeah, thank you for having me. I appreciate the introduction there.
Creating Confidence with Heather Monahan
Confidence Classic: How To Lead At ANY Level, With Dr. Richard Winters The Director Of Leadership Development For The Mayo Clinic
Yeah, I mean, there's such a tension there because there's what's always been working for us. And yeah, times change and stuff, but you know what? Our tradition is this. Our culture is based on this. And these are the things that have always worked. And if you start to tweak that, it makes some individuals very uncomfortable. It feels like it's actually a separation of the organization.
Creating Confidence with Heather Monahan
Confidence Classic: How To Lead At ANY Level, With Dr. Richard Winters The Director Of Leadership Development For The Mayo Clinic
Like, this is now different. But on the other hand, like best practices by definition, past practice, there are things that we have done in the past that we no longer do because they no longer work. And so how do we remain aware and make sure that we're kind of aligned with our tradition and the culture and those sorts of things?
Creating Confidence with Heather Monahan
Confidence Classic: How To Lead At ANY Level, With Dr. Richard Winters The Director Of Leadership Development For The Mayo Clinic
But on the other hand, making sure that these best practices that we have right now, they actually still fit. And so I think as a group, it's sort of a group decision whether this is fitting. And then also the data starts to show us that, you know what, this is not working, which is why we're here talking about this. It's not working. And so let's start to figure out how to move forward.
Creating Confidence with Heather Monahan
Confidence Classic: How To Lead At ANY Level, With Dr. Richard Winters The Director Of Leadership Development For The Mayo Clinic
Yeah, true. Yeah. So an ineffective leader is going to be someone who always says, OK, let's get the group together. Let's all come together because there are times you need to make decisions. And I think there's a few few things there to think about. One is the leader is there to protect the mission, the values of the organization.
Creating Confidence with Heather Monahan
Confidence Classic: How To Lead At ANY Level, With Dr. Richard Winters The Director Of Leadership Development For The Mayo Clinic
And so if there is a sense that we're running off kilter here from a perspective of what our values of the organization and what our mission is and those the leader just needs to say, stop, this is what we're going to do moving forward. That's that's kind of an easy thing. I think the other thing is that there are those times during crisis where we don't have times.
Creating Confidence with Heather Monahan
Confidence Classic: How To Lead At ANY Level, With Dr. Richard Winters The Director Of Leadership Development For The Mayo Clinic
And let's go back to COVID where COVID is, we're hearing about it. You know, it's going on over there. I don't think it's going to be a big deal. And then all of a sudden it starts to impact our lives. And all of a sudden it is a very big deal. And it's hurting a lot of individuals. We don't have times there for leaders to like bring everyone together and like figure out what to do.
Creating Confidence with Heather Monahan
Confidence Classic: How To Lead At ANY Level, With Dr. Richard Winters The Director Of Leadership Development For The Mayo Clinic
And you can think in all of our organizations, you know, like a tornado rips through town and all of a sudden our supply chain is cut off. You can't bring people together to have a kind of a kumbaya about what to do moving forward. You can't put together task forces. A leader needs to step up. And so during those times, the leader has incomplete information.
Creating Confidence with Heather Monahan
Confidence Classic: How To Lead At ANY Level, With Dr. Richard Winters The Director Of Leadership Development For The Mayo Clinic
No one knows all the information and what the possible outcomes are. But those are the times when the leader has to kind of use some of their expertise and then project out what they think might be happening in the future, kind of role play, and just make decisions. So now you have a leader who's making decisions based on missions and values. You have a leader who steps up during crisis.
Creating Confidence with Heather Monahan
Confidence Classic: How To Lead At ANY Level, With Dr. Richard Winters The Director Of Leadership Development For The Mayo Clinic
And then I think a lot of the other times, it's the leader kind of supervising and getting experts and other leaders involved to be able to bring groups together to make decisions. more decisions more effectively.
Creating Confidence with Heather Monahan
Confidence Classic: How To Lead At ANY Level, With Dr. Richard Winters The Director Of Leadership Development For The Mayo Clinic
Yeah, and so that's the Kenevan framework. That is really the figuring out whether something is clear, complicated, complex, or chaotic. And as we get groups then together to understand that sort of situation, then we can start to approach things in decisions that are better. Like we've mapped out, okay, this is a complicated decision. Let's give it to the expert. This is a complex decision.
Creating Confidence with Heather Monahan
Confidence Classic: How To Lead At ANY Level, With Dr. Richard Winters The Director Of Leadership Development For The Mayo Clinic
Let's get a group of people together and develop some shared reality around this decision before we start to think about what are the options we might choose and then how we're actually going to move forward.
Creating Confidence with Heather Monahan
Confidence Classic: How To Lead At ANY Level, With Dr. Richard Winters The Director Of Leadership Development For The Mayo Clinic
Yeah, otherwise we're just reacting and not being effective.
Creating Confidence with Heather Monahan
Confidence Classic: How To Lead At ANY Level, With Dr. Richard Winters The Director Of Leadership Development For The Mayo Clinic
Yeah, totally. I mean, there's this cartoon that I love and it's a cartoon that is of a rhino that's an artist and it's painting on this canvas. And it's painting these beautiful scenes, you know, like the Serengeti and the forest and the mountains. And in each of these paintings on the canvas is this huge rhino horn in the center of it. And the rhino is stepping back so proud of these paintings.
Creating Confidence with Heather Monahan
Confidence Classic: How To Lead At ANY Level, With Dr. Richard Winters The Director Of Leadership Development For The Mayo Clinic
But what the rhino doesn't realize is that the rhino has painted itself in every single portrait. And the rhino feels that everyone else is seeing the same thing. We all get that way. I mean, we all kind of look at our environment and we're a part of it. And we have our expertise, we have our experience, and we have these ideas of the way things are. But there's a lot of blind spots that we have.
Creating Confidence with Heather Monahan
Confidence Classic: How To Lead At ANY Level, With Dr. Richard Winters The Director Of Leadership Development For The Mayo Clinic
Like we have our own kind of big rhino horns in the center of our vision. And so how can we as groups get together? Each of us has this data that we've analyzed, but how can we start to help each other look around our own blind spots? And a good leader is able to take groups of people together and start to see maybe the scene in a more real way.
Creating Confidence with Heather Monahan
Confidence Classic: How To Lead At ANY Level, With Dr. Richard Winters The Director Of Leadership Development For The Mayo Clinic
So lots of things changing, changing really fast, and not only in health care, but also where you're at and in your industry. Things are changing very fast. And so how do you react to that? And what I noticed was that there are some leaders who stepped up and were able to lead quite comfortably in those sorts of circumstances.
Creating Confidence with Heather Monahan
Confidence Classic: How To Lead At ANY Level, With Dr. Richard Winters The Director Of Leadership Development For The Mayo Clinic
Yeah. What happens then?
Creating Confidence with Heather Monahan
Confidence Classic: How To Lead At ANY Level, With Dr. Richard Winters The Director Of Leadership Development For The Mayo Clinic
Right. Yeah. I mean, and I think that in itself is data. Like we don't really have an understanding. So what do you think is going on? What does your colleague think is going on? We pull all this stuff together and then we come up with some options for the way to move forward. And so let's step back again. So there's some leaders. This is going to depend on the organization.
Creating Confidence with Heather Monahan
Confidence Classic: How To Lead At ANY Level, With Dr. Richard Winters The Director Of Leadership Development For The Mayo Clinic
There are organizations where leaders are really highly affiliative, where they want a big collaborative process to make decisions. There are other organizations where the leader is going to make the decision. And both of those situations, they both work. Those organizations work quite well. with those different styles.
Creating Confidence with Heather Monahan
Confidence Classic: How To Lead At ANY Level, With Dr. Richard Winters The Director Of Leadership Development For The Mayo Clinic
But in both of those organizations, you still need to have this kind of broader perspective of what's going on. And so for a leader who's making all the decisions, still to have people come together with all their different perspectives, all their different fears and worries, all their different ideas of what's going on,
Creating Confidence with Heather Monahan
Confidence Classic: How To Lead At ANY Level, With Dr. Richard Winters The Director Of Leadership Development For The Mayo Clinic
Their differences of opinion, their agreements, to look at this kind of broad perspective is still helpful for that leader who's going to be making the decision. More helpful than if they were to be making the decision alone from behind their own blind spots.
Creating Confidence with Heather Monahan
Confidence Classic: How To Lead At ANY Level, With Dr. Richard Winters The Director Of Leadership Development For The Mayo Clinic
So what is burnout? First of all, I guess it's a combination of emotional exhaustion and cynicism and decreased effectiveness. And so we all at times get exhausted where we no longer feel kind of the happiness of the world. That happens. But then when you start to pair this with cynicism, and I think there used to be a cartoon I used to watch.
Creating Confidence with Heather Monahan
Confidence Classic: How To Lead At ANY Level, With Dr. Richard Winters The Director Of Leadership Development For The Mayo Clinic
where there's this, this character named Glum and they'd go on these adventures kind of like Scooby-Doo where they go find and meet this, solve this crime or go do this thing. And Glum was always there and he was always saying, we're never going to make it. We're never going to make it. And then the Glum's friends were always like, so like be positive Glum and, Glenn was like, I'm positive.
Creating Confidence with Heather Monahan
Confidence Classic: How To Lead At ANY Level, With Dr. Richard Winters The Director Of Leadership Development For The Mayo Clinic
We're never going to make it, right? So you start to combine exhaustion with cynicism. We're never going to make it. And then you have decreased effectiveness. That is what burnout is. And so why do people get burned out? So why do people get exhausted? I think there are some things, you know, individually from our own kind of wellness. Are we sleeping? Are we eating? Are we exercising?
Creating Confidence with Heather Monahan
Confidence Classic: How To Lead At ANY Level, With Dr. Richard Winters The Director Of Leadership Development For The Mayo Clinic
Have people been nice to us? Have we had good interactions? Those are all things. How are we making sense of the situation? Like there are things where I feel trapped where maybe I'm not trapped. Maybe it's the way I'm making sense of the situation. Those things can have an effect.
Creating Confidence with Heather Monahan
Confidence Classic: How To Lead At ANY Level, With Dr. Richard Winters The Director Of Leadership Development For The Mayo Clinic
And I think up to this point, there's been a lot of focus on that, on what the individuals do or don't do that causes burnout. But we exist within organizations. And so are we feeling like we're engaged with the organization? Do we feel like our well-being is supported by the organization? Is the organization making decisions in ways that support our well-being? And so what is well-being?
Creating Confidence with Heather Monahan
Confidence Classic: How To Lead At ANY Level, With Dr. Richard Winters The Director Of Leadership Development For The Mayo Clinic
Well-being is this combination of this alignment with purpose, the sense that we are... Within our organization, we agree with their values, the mission, and what they're trying to achieve. And we're in alignment with that. When that's out of alignment, not so good. Autonomy, a sense that we're being heard.
Creating Confidence with Heather Monahan
Confidence Classic: How To Lead At ANY Level, With Dr. Richard Winters The Director Of Leadership Development For The Mayo Clinic
When we face these very difficult decisions, when things are evolving fast, we do need leaders who can step up and just decide what to do and move forward and then kind of take the input and discover what's going on and then make more decisions. And so it's a bit different than when we were now outside of COVID or evolving outside of COVID where you have some time to react.
Creating Confidence with Heather Monahan
Confidence Classic: How To Lead At ANY Level, With Dr. Richard Winters The Director Of Leadership Development For The Mayo Clinic
And so if you're sitting in that meeting and the loud voice comes on and you're not being heard, your sense of autonomy of being participating in the decisions is going to go down. A sense of that you have the resources that you need, so environmental mastery. A sense that, okay, you're responsible for this, but you actually have the resources that you need to do this.
Creating Confidence with Heather Monahan
Confidence Classic: How To Lead At ANY Level, With Dr. Richard Winters The Director Of Leadership Development For The Mayo Clinic
A sense that you're personally growing. A sense that you're getting better today than you were yesterday, that you're learning new things or you're getting new positions, things that you want to do. A sense that you're having good relations with your colleagues. And then a sense that you're actually able to accept when you're making mistakes.
Creating Confidence with Heather Monahan
Confidence Classic: How To Lead At ANY Level, With Dr. Richard Winters The Director Of Leadership Development For The Mayo Clinic
Those are all the things that go into psychological well-being. It's a nice kind of recipe for a leader. And so from the perspective of purpose, what am I doing to help my colleagues get around me and around the organization and feel like they're aligned with a sense of purpose? Are we telling stories based upon how we're fulfilling our mission? Are we telling stories based upon our values?
Creating Confidence with Heather Monahan
Confidence Classic: How To Lead At ANY Level, With Dr. Richard Winters The Director Of Leadership Development For The Mayo Clinic
Are our leaders embodying the values that we are saying? Are we saying that we value teamwork, but yet we're making decisions with leaders alone? There's probably something there that the leaders can do. From a sense of autonomy, are we hearing people? Are we hearing the different voices? Are we allowing individuals to speak?
Creating Confidence with Heather Monahan
Confidence Classic: How To Lead At ANY Level, With Dr. Richard Winters The Director Of Leadership Development For The Mayo Clinic
We're talking about diversity, but are we actually listening to all the diverse perspectives of the individuals in the room? And so a leader can help that with processes of how they're running meetings and how they're meeting one-to-one with individuals.
Creating Confidence with Heather Monahan
Confidence Classic: How To Lead At ANY Level, With Dr. Richard Winters The Director Of Leadership Development For The Mayo Clinic
In terms of resources, do the people that you're giving responsibility to have the resources that they need to actually do the things that they're responsible for? Are we not empowering them, actually disempowering them to not be able to fulfill their mission and the things that they're wanting to do? So these are the things that the leader steps back and you kind of look at burnout.
Creating Confidence with Heather Monahan
Confidence Classic: How To Lead At ANY Level, With Dr. Richard Winters The Director Of Leadership Development For The Mayo Clinic
You can see that the leader has a huge effect on that. And then organizationally, how are we looking at this? Are we looking at whether our employees, our colleagues are burned out? And if so, are we doing anything about it? Is it important to us? How are we making decisions? How are we telling our values and displaying these throughout the organization?
Creating Confidence with Heather Monahan
Confidence Classic: How To Lead At ANY Level, With Dr. Richard Winters The Director Of Leadership Development For The Mayo Clinic
And so there's all these different levels from the leadership level to the individual level that has this huge effect on an individual's sense of burnout or not.
Creating Confidence with Heather Monahan
Confidence Classic: How To Lead At ANY Level, With Dr. Richard Winters The Director Of Leadership Development For The Mayo Clinic
Yeah, and you raised something great. So let's say, Heather, let's pretend that you're burned out and you come to me. And so I'm like, okay, Heather, geez, you know, I've been burned out before. I recommend you read this book and this is what I've seen work and this is what's worked for me. Okay, good conversation, move along. That's oftentimes what happens.
Creating Confidence with Heather Monahan
Confidence Classic: How To Lead At ANY Level, With Dr. Richard Winters The Director Of Leadership Development For The Mayo Clinic
Like our conversations with colleagues are, how can I help you? How can I help fix you? That doesn't really tend to work out. And so for a leader to meet with someone on that perspective, not so helpful. What would it be like though, if I approached you and said, so, you know, tell me about what's going on. What are you thinking? Like what's been working for you?
Creating Confidence with Heather Monahan
Confidence Classic: How To Lead At ANY Level, With Dr. Richard Winters The Director Of Leadership Development For The Mayo Clinic
It's a little bit more like an emergency physician where you're just kind of reacting in the moment and then moving on.
Creating Confidence with Heather Monahan
Confidence Classic: How To Lead At ANY Level, With Dr. Richard Winters The Director Of Leadership Development For The Mayo Clinic
I hear you on the one hand say this, and the other hand you're saying this. How do you put these things together? Like what do you want to do to move forward? What's your goal here? It's a very different approach. It's no longer am I the expert, it's now you're the expert of the situation. And so what I'm doing is I'm coaching you.
Creating Confidence with Heather Monahan
Confidence Classic: How To Lead At ANY Level, With Dr. Richard Winters The Director Of Leadership Development For The Mayo Clinic
I'm asking you questions that help you make sense of what's going on in your life. And at some point there may be something that you say that I think, you know what, there's some information I'm not sure that Heather knows would be helpful if I told you this. And then I teach a little bit.
Creating Confidence with Heather Monahan
Confidence Classic: How To Lead At ANY Level, With Dr. Richard Winters The Director Of Leadership Development For The Mayo Clinic
So I don't know if you know this, but it's from what I've heard, professional athletes get in these cycles where if they over train and they overwork, then they get injured. And what they've started to do is they started to put in some time for recovery because stress plus rest equals growth. And my sense is that you're in this place of stress and there's not a lot of rest.
Creating Confidence with Heather Monahan
Confidence Classic: How To Lead At ANY Level, With Dr. Richard Winters The Director Of Leadership Development For The Mayo Clinic
What are your thoughts about that? So I pepper in a little bit of knowledge there. It's not me telling you what to do. I'm sharing something and then you're processing it. And so really our good leader knows how to do that. And as we're talking about leaders, that doesn't necessarily mean someone with a title. I think, you know, leaders at all levels.
Creating Confidence with Heather Monahan
Confidence Classic: How To Lead At ANY Level, With Dr. Richard Winters The Director Of Leadership Development For The Mayo Clinic
And you can be a leader in your organization and hold no title and still be the person that everyone goes to to try to figure out what to do next. And so that ability to coach, to be able to help someone see things through their own eyes and make sense of the world in their own way, I think that's very helpful. for individuals and burnout in individuals that many other stages of what's going on.
Creating Confidence with Heather Monahan
Confidence Classic: How To Lead At ANY Level, With Dr. Richard Winters The Director Of Leadership Development For The Mayo Clinic
Totally. Yeah. And on the other hand, if that same leader was not doing them, just approached with this is what you need to do. This is what I've seen others do. All right. Good talk. Move along. You know, and then the leader's like, oh, that was great. And then the person's like, oh, that's great.
Creating Confidence with Heather Monahan
Confidence Classic: How To Lead At ANY Level, With Dr. Richard Winters The Director Of Leadership Development For The Mayo Clinic
Yeah, so amplifying engagement is, so what is engagement? That's really people offering their time to the organization to help the organization meet its customer needs and the needs of the organization. And so when employees are engaged, they are involved and they're adequately, I mean, they're giving their time to the organization to improve things.
Creating Confidence with Heather Monahan
Confidence Classic: How To Lead At ANY Level, With Dr. Richard Winters The Director Of Leadership Development For The Mayo Clinic
Totally. Our best leaders are able to adapt to both circumstances. And so we have leaders who can step up really well in crisis. And then when all of a sudden the crisis goes away, they're still trying to command and control and be the general. And that doesn't work so well.
Creating Confidence with Heather Monahan
Confidence Classic: How To Lead At ANY Level, With Dr. Richard Winters The Director Of Leadership Development For The Mayo Clinic
When they're disengaged, they may be there in body or, you know, on Zoom, but but they're not there in mind and they're not really putting a lot of effort in. And so how do you engage them? And I think that there's kind of pairs with well-being. And so the things that engage me are the things that help me feel better, like help me feel aligned with the organization.
Creating Confidence with Heather Monahan
Confidence Classic: How To Lead At ANY Level, With Dr. Richard Winters The Director Of Leadership Development For The Mayo Clinic
And so that goes with, again, the sense of autonomy, the sense that I have the resources that I need or that I can help get those resources, the sense that I'm growing and I'm learning new things, the sense that I'm aligned with the purpose and values of the organization, the sense that I go to work or have these meetings and And I feel like I'm heard and we're all coming together.
Creating Confidence with Heather Monahan
Confidence Classic: How To Lead At ANY Level, With Dr. Richard Winters The Director Of Leadership Development For The Mayo Clinic
And you know what? I would not have done that. I thought that we should have done the other thing. But now after talking about it and hearing other people's perspectives, I can kind of see why we're doing that. Those are all things that get people engaged. It's this sense that what they do makes a difference.
Creating Confidence with Heather Monahan
Confidence Classic: How To Lead At ANY Level, With Dr. Richard Winters The Director Of Leadership Development For The Mayo Clinic
Yeah. And I think we tend to reduce this to like, oh, it's money. People need to be paid more money or they need money. It really people will do so much when they feel engaged as part of the organization.
Creating Confidence with Heather Monahan
Confidence Classic: How To Lead At ANY Level, With Dr. Richard Winters The Director Of Leadership Development For The Mayo Clinic
And I like what you said there too, because there's, let's say within a department, I mean, there can be 50 people, let's say, in a department and they don't necessarily know each other. They're not necessarily interacting. And that's been really heightened by COVID and remote work. That's not because of COVID or the remote work.
Creating Confidence with Heather Monahan
Confidence Classic: How To Lead At ANY Level, With Dr. Richard Winters The Director Of Leadership Development For The Mayo Clinic
It's because of the way that we're kind of running meetings and getting together. As we start to get groups of people together in small groups to talk and share ideas and perspectives about these really complex situations, people, they get together and they start to feel good about that. So that's within your department. But then also it's interdepartmentally.
Creating Confidence with Heather Monahan
Confidence Classic: How To Lead At ANY Level, With Dr. Richard Winters The Director Of Leadership Development For The Mayo Clinic
And so how are we working with engineers or thinking that marketing doesn't know what they're doing or vice versa? The engineers, they just want to do these features and no one cares about those. And so how do we get those groups together? It's the same sort of process. You want people to interact, you know, kind of pre-COVID or maybe now post-COVID.
Creating Confidence with Heather Monahan
Confidence Classic: How To Lead At ANY Level, With Dr. Richard Winters The Director Of Leadership Development For The Mayo Clinic
And then we have other leaders who may be really good at bringing lots of groups together and getting lots of different perspectives and really bonding with groups. But that doesn't work so well in crisis. And so our best leaders adapt. Actually can do both of those. They sense the environment and they evolve and kind of flow with the environment.
Creating Confidence with Heather Monahan
Confidence Classic: How To Lead At ANY Level, With Dr. Richard Winters The Director Of Leadership Development For The Mayo Clinic
One of the most effective ways when I had physician groups that weren't getting along was to get the two of them together for dinner and have them just talk that way. And all of a sudden, these individuals who used to be the individuals on the other side of the monitor or the phone are now real humans, and it just helps things move along.
Creating Confidence with Heather Monahan
Confidence Classic: How To Lead At ANY Level, With Dr. Richard Winters The Director Of Leadership Development For The Mayo Clinic
It's so true. And, you know, a common thing is, you know, I feel alone or I don't, how do I network? Well, pick up the phone, send an email and just ask someone to meet with them. I heard you're doing this. Tell me about it. That's it. That's as simple as that.
Creating Confidence with Heather Monahan
Confidence Classic: How To Lead At ANY Level, With Dr. Richard Winters The Director Of Leadership Development For The Mayo Clinic
Well said. Yep.
Creating Confidence with Heather Monahan
Confidence Classic: How To Lead At ANY Level, With Dr. Richard Winters The Director Of Leadership Development For The Mayo Clinic
It's for leaders at all levels. And so it's for people who are running organizations and they find themselves in these situations where they're not sure what to do, how to bring people together. It's for them. But it's also for those of us who are sitting in meetings.
Creating Confidence with Heather Monahan
Confidence Classic: How To Lead At ANY Level, With Dr. Richard Winters The Director Of Leadership Development For The Mayo Clinic
It really seems like the same meeting we just had last week and the same meeting we had last year, and nothing is changing and what is going on. And I feel dumb because I just spoke up. The book will help take you through why you might be feeling that way and how perhaps you and the group can become more effective in moving forward.
Creating Confidence with Heather Monahan
Confidence Classic: How To Lead At ANY Level, With Dr. Richard Winters The Director Of Leadership Development For The Mayo Clinic
At any bookstore, any bookstore.
Creating Confidence with Heather Monahan
Confidence Classic: How To Lead At ANY Level, With Dr. Richard Winters The Director Of Leadership Development For The Mayo Clinic
So first of all, I'm going to say that I hope they don't find me in the emergency department, but richardwinters.com is where you can find information about the book. And I'm also on Twitter at Dr. R. Winters.
Creating Confidence with Heather Monahan
Confidence Classic: How To Lead At ANY Level, With Dr. Richard Winters The Director Of Leadership Development For The Mayo Clinic
Thank you, Heather.
Creating Confidence with Heather Monahan
Confidence Classic: How To Lead At ANY Level, With Dr. Richard Winters The Director Of Leadership Development For The Mayo Clinic
Yeah, I think that they're sensing the environment. And so there's like different sort of processes and protocols, things that kind of pop into my mind that help me make sense of the situations. And there's a framework called the Kenevan Framework that's been very helpful for me. And that came out of David Snowden. And that was published in HBR, Harvard Business Review, probably early 2000s.
Creating Confidence with Heather Monahan
Confidence Classic: How To Lead At ANY Level, With Dr. Richard Winters The Director Of Leadership Development For The Mayo Clinic
And it's a way of looking at the decisions that we're making and choosing the right process for those decisions. And so we are very comfortable making decisions in situations where it's common sense. We all agree we've been there before and we've done that before. We know what to do. And we have best practices for that. That is not an issue.
Creating Confidence with Heather Monahan
Confidence Classic: How To Lead At ANY Level, With Dr. Richard Winters The Director Of Leadership Development For The Mayo Clinic
The issue comes when we start to be in this environment where things are changing. And if you get a group of your friends together, a group of your colleagues together, actually, we would all disagree about what's going on, what information to consider, what are the possible outcomes, those sorts of things. And so leading during those times, that's difficult.
Creating Confidence with Heather Monahan
Confidence Classic: How To Lead At ANY Level, With Dr. Richard Winters The Director Of Leadership Development For The Mayo Clinic
And during those times, there are times that we need to make decisions right away. There's times where we have a few weeks or a month or so to try to figure this out. And so for me, as I think about that, as I'm in a meeting and individuals are disagreeing and emotions are running high, I know that this is probably not the time for me or for my colleagues to say what they think should go on.
Creating Confidence with Heather Monahan
Confidence Classic: How To Lead At ANY Level, With Dr. Richard Winters The Director Of Leadership Development For The Mayo Clinic
It's more a time to kind of sit back and think about how to best lead in those sorts of circumstances.
Creating Confidence with Heather Monahan
Confidence Classic: How To Lead At ANY Level, With Dr. Richard Winters The Director Of Leadership Development For The Mayo Clinic
Let's break it down into the two different situations. One is, and this is the most common thing that's going on, is that we have this just a really prickly decision that we need to make as a group. That can be, how are we going to allot resources? How are we going to change our schedule? How are we going to meet customer demands?
Creating Confidence with Heather Monahan
Confidence Classic: How To Lead At ANY Level, With Dr. Richard Winters The Director Of Leadership Development For The Mayo Clinic
During those situations, we have a bit of time to figure out what basically the room thinks. And so we have a little bit of time to kind of get the perspectives of everyone and to understand what's going on from the colleagues on the right and the colleagues on the left and to understand what's going on from people outside the room.
Creating Confidence with Heather Monahan
Confidence Classic: How To Lead At ANY Level, With Dr. Richard Winters The Director Of Leadership Development For The Mayo Clinic
And then getting all that information to gather this sort of shared perspective, this shared sense of reality of what's going on. Within that sense of reality, there are fears and worries. There's a lot of disagreements. But those are really authentically ways that we're looking at the situation.
Creating Confidence with Heather Monahan
Confidence Classic: How To Lead At ANY Level, With Dr. Richard Winters The Director Of Leadership Development For The Mayo Clinic
And so first doing that and then going from there to choose the options and then the way forward that we're going to choose to proceed. What tends to happen for leaders in situations like that is we have a meeting and someone says something and maybe another person says something with a lot of kind of force.
Creating Confidence with Heather Monahan
Confidence Classic: How To Lead At ANY Level, With Dr. Richard Winters The Director Of Leadership Development For The Mayo Clinic
A decision is made and then we move forward and then people feel just like, what was I doing there? They didn't hear me. I think we're going in the wrong direction. And so what's going on? I think that's a very common thing that we all experience.
Creating Confidence with Heather Monahan
Confidence Classic: How To Lead At ANY Level, With Dr. Richard Winters The Director Of Leadership Development For The Mayo Clinic
Yeah, it's interesting. So as an executive coach, so I coach leaders in our organization, outside our organization, those bullies, those people who stand up are oftentimes individuals that I'm coaching. And what they're wanting to do is, geez, I wish I could just, I wish I was not speaking up all the time.
Creating Confidence with Heather Monahan
Confidence Classic: How To Lead At ANY Level, With Dr. Richard Winters The Director Of Leadership Development For The Mayo Clinic
I can hear myself and I wish I could quiet down, but I have a sense that I need to speak my mind to make things go because that's what a leader does. And so we go through the coaching process of how to like, okay, so what would it be like if you spoke less? What would it be like if you allowed others to say things? On the other hand, there's individuals that I coach who are quiet during meetings.
Creating Confidence with Heather Monahan
Confidence Classic: How To Lead At ANY Level, With Dr. Richard Winters The Director Of Leadership Development For The Mayo Clinic
They're wanting to speak up. They don't feel safe speaking up. And so it's weird to have both individuals in the same meeting, both wanting things to go well, but then not having it go well.
Creating Confidence with Heather Monahan
Confidence Classic: How To Lead At ANY Level, With Dr. Richard Winters The Director Of Leadership Development For The Mayo Clinic
And so I think that's where process really comes in, where we try to figure out how we're running meetings in a way so that both the loud voices get heard, but also the people who have different perspectives and maybe feel less safe speaking up so that they can also be heard. before we start to move forward.
Creating Confidence with Heather Monahan
Confidence Classic: How To Lead At ANY Level, With Dr. Richard Winters The Director Of Leadership Development For The Mayo Clinic
And that's really, I think, the job of the leader, the person running the meeting, kind of facilitating this different perspectives rising up in a way that's safe for the group and then moving forward.
Creating Confidence with Heather Monahan
Confidence Classic: How To Lead At ANY Level, With Dr. Richard Winters The Director Of Leadership Development For The Mayo Clinic
I mean, I think as we're. Reading anything in the news today, we're seeing that individuals are burned out. We're seeing that there's a lot of churn at organizations where people go to an organization, then move to the next, and then move to the next. And this is a real issue just in running a business.
Creating Confidence with Heather Monahan
Confidence Classic: How To Lead At ANY Level, With Dr. Richard Winters The Director Of Leadership Development For The Mayo Clinic
And if you're a leader and you're running an organization with sort of a crisis culture, which is I'm going to have a meeting, bring people together, and I'm going to tell people what to do, or the loud voices are going to tell people what to do, it's not going to go over well.
Creating Confidence with Heather Monahan
Confidence Classic: How To Lead At ANY Level, With Dr. Richard Winters The Director Of Leadership Development For The Mayo Clinic
I mean, you're going to be in a situation then where people are leaving, where people are feeling like they're not being heard. and you're going to become less effective, and you're going to be less able to kind of react to the things that you need to react to as you're trying to be successful moving forward.
Creating Confidence with Heather Monahan
Confidence Classic: How To Lead At ANY Level, With Dr. Richard Winters The Director Of Leadership Development For The Mayo Clinic
And so it's not only like, geez, wouldn't it be great if everyone got together and we made good decisions and we were kind of sensible as we're approaching that. Even if you're like evil, like leader, and you decided that you didn't care about the individual effects on people, it's still not a good way of making decisions because your quality is going to go down, your churn is going to go up,
Creating Confidence with Heather Monahan
Confidence Classic: How To Lead At ANY Level, With Dr. Richard Winters The Director Of Leadership Development For The Mayo Clinic
And it's just going to be hurting the organization. And so this is really for us to be able to respond to these really complex situations that we faced. It makes sense for us to figure out how to bring groups of people together, share different perspectives, and then move forward.
Creating Confidence with Heather Monahan
Confidence Classic: How To Lead At ANY Level, With Dr. Richard Winters The Director Of Leadership Development For The Mayo Clinic
So I think that happens when we have back channels. And you can look at social media and there's lots of back channels. And if I'm on one back channel and I'm saying something, it can be completely different than my colleague who has this different point of view. And as we're on those back channels, the differences that we have just heighten. It just increases and increases.
Creating Confidence with Heather Monahan
Confidence Classic: How To Lead At ANY Level, With Dr. Richard Winters The Director Of Leadership Development For The Mayo Clinic
Same thing happens in our organizations. And so if you're running a meeting and the leader is speaking up and maybe the other loud voice is speaking up and you're moving things in a direction, there are back channels there that are going to be moving in the background and then again, making things not so successful.
Creating Confidence with Heather Monahan
Confidence Classic: How To Lead At ANY Level, With Dr. Richard Winters The Director Of Leadership Development For The Mayo Clinic
But as you have these friends and colleagues who have different political ideas, different religious ideas, different values and those sorts of things, as people come together and start to share opinions, you start to see that actually they're not so different. And in many cases, the differences of opinion are really a part of the whole. I mean, it's a part. Things aren't necessarily yes or no.
Creating Confidence with Heather Monahan
Confidence Classic: How To Lead At ANY Level, With Dr. Richard Winters The Director Of Leadership Development For The Mayo Clinic
Things aren't necessarily right or wrong. There's often shades of gray. And in understanding these different perspectives, it helps the group to move forward in ways that are more together than kind of back channel separate, you know, kind of behind the back.
Creating Confidence with Heather Monahan
Confidence Classic: How To Lead At ANY Level, With Dr. Richard Winters The Director Of Leadership Development For The Mayo Clinic
I think you bring it forward. And so honestly, I think during meetings, so it's one thing having a meeting on site where everyone's together in the same room. It's another idea than having meetings through Zoom or through other kind of video conferencing thing. And so how do we bring people together into those sorts of environments?
Creating Confidence with Heather Monahan
Confidence Classic: How To Lead At ANY Level, With Dr. Richard Winters The Director Of Leadership Development For The Mayo Clinic
As I'm running retreats and things like that, what we do is we have breakout groups. And so it's not just an agenda. We're going to plow through this sort of agenda. This is what you do. This is what you do. This is what you do. What we're going to do is we're going to have moments of the meeting where we're going to ask a big question about some complex problem.
Creating Confidence with Heather Monahan
Confidence Classic: How To Lead At ANY Level, With Dr. Richard Winters The Director Of Leadership Development For The Mayo Clinic
And then we're going to have people kind of separate, talk together, think out by themselves what they think, and then come back together and then share our perspectives as groups.
Creating Confidence with Heather Monahan
Confidence Classic: How To Lead At ANY Level, With Dr. Richard Winters The Director Of Leadership Development For The Mayo Clinic
And so these are things that we could do during meetings, kind of IRL in real life or URL on things like Zoom, where we have breakout groups where we discuss all these different perspectives and then we share them together as we come together again. The nice thing about that is that as you break people into smaller groups, Then there's maybe some more kind of safety there.
Creating Confidence with Heather Monahan
Confidence Classic: How To Lead At ANY Level, With Dr. Richard Winters The Director Of Leadership Development For The Mayo Clinic
You can say things that you may not feel so comfortable with because maybe that loud person's in the other group. And then as you're doing group report outs, then, you know, Winters said this, you know, it's something that in our group, this came up and then all of a sudden you can surface these different ideas.
Creating Confidence with Heather Monahan
Confidence Classic: How To Lead At ANY Level, With Dr. Richard Winters The Director Of Leadership Development For The Mayo Clinic
But really, the majority of our time as we become leaders is kind of shedding that expertise and then stepping back and helping groups, facilitating groups to come together around these really complex issues, whether that's during times of crisis or whether that's time where we have a little bit of more time to kind of look forward.
Creating Confidence with Heather Monahan
Confidence Classic: How To Lead At ANY Level, With Dr. Richard Winters The Director Of Leadership Development For The Mayo Clinic
So I'm an emergency physician, right? And patients come in and they're like, okay, now what? That's something that's kind of been a lifelong thing as a physician. But then as I became a leader and kind of running organizations, I'd find myself in these situations where I'm thinking like, now what do I do?
Creating Confidence with Heather Monahan
Confidence Classic: How To Lead At ANY Level, With Dr. Richard Winters The Director Of Leadership Development For The Mayo Clinic
And then as I was coaching leaders, the same thing, people would come with these really thorny issues, these issues where people are disagreeing, all their colleagues are kind of bickering and then they're looking to you and saying like, now what, what do we do? And that's why I wrote the book. And I think there's kind of a couple of things.
Creating Confidence with Heather Monahan
Confidence Classic: How To Lead At ANY Level, With Dr. Richard Winters The Director Of Leadership Development For The Mayo Clinic
One is, is that we are so common in kind of leaning back on our own expertise. And so in situations like we're talking about these meetings where there's really complex things going on, We all, despite how complex the situations are, whatever topic comes up, you, I, many of us know exactly what to do in that moment, what we would do.
Creating Confidence with Heather Monahan
Confidence Classic: How To Lead At ANY Level, With Dr. Richard Winters The Director Of Leadership Development For The Mayo Clinic
If your friend comes to you and says, hey, I'm having difficulty with this relationship, we know what to do. If a friend comes up to us and says, hey, I have this issue going on at work, we know what to do. It's because we are kind of primed to be able to reflexively just say, this is what I think. And as we become leaders, there are things that we're expert at that got us to that point.