Dr. Ernst Roots
Appearances
The Ben Shapiro Show
Ep. 2169 - BREAKING: Le Pen BANNED?!?
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The Ben Shapiro Show
Ep. 2169 - BREAKING: Le Pen BANNED?!?
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The Ben Shapiro Show
Ep. 2169 - BREAKING: Le Pen BANNED?!?
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The Ben Shapiro Show
Ep. 2169 - BREAKING: Le Pen BANNED?!?
Yeah, exactly. So that's the problem that we have, is we have this narrative that you can choose between the apartheid system and the current system. And there's only those two options. You have nothing else to choose from. And so you have to choose what's currently happening in South Africa.
The Ben Shapiro Show
Ep. 2169 - BREAKING: Le Pen BANNED?!?
And if you don't choose that, or if you say this is a problem, that by definition means you want to go back. You want to go to the apartheid system, which no one wants to do. The fact is that the apartheid system didn't work. The current system isn't working and we need something else. We need a better system.
The Ben Shapiro Show
Ep. 2169 - BREAKING: Le Pen BANNED?!?
But we are very happy that a lot of people are taking note about what's happening in South Africa because this has been going on for decades. And I think the pendulum has swung so far to the one side or to the left, you could say, that the narrative about South Africa has become so detached from the realities on ground level that it's just not possible to ignore what's happening in South Africa.
The Ben Shapiro Show
Ep. 2169 - BREAKING: Le Pen BANNED?!?
And so we are grateful that people are talking about this and people should be talking about it more.
The Ben Shapiro Show
Ep. 2169 - BREAKING: Le Pen BANNED?!?
Well, one way I think to understand what's happening is the negotiations for the new South Africa started immediately after the fall of the Berlin Wall. And that was, you know, the end of history era. And there was a sort of a narrative that capitalism and liberalism has won and it's going to be the standard, the gold standard all over the world eventually.
The Ben Shapiro Show
Ep. 2169 - BREAKING: Le Pen BANNED?!?
And we need to write a constitution for South Africa along these lines. And the problem with that in South Africa is that it's a very big country. It's very diverse. It's more like Europe than like the US in a certain sense. It's almost as big as Western Europe, at least. And there are many diverse nations and peoples living there.
The Ben Shapiro Show
Ep. 2169 - BREAKING: Le Pen BANNED?!?
And so the ruling party, the ANC, back then they said, the way we're going to do this is we want what they call a national democratic revolution. And that essentially means using democracy as a way to promote socialist ideals. And the way they did that, they said it's going to be a two-phase revolution.
The Ben Shapiro Show
Ep. 2169 - BREAKING: Le Pen BANNED?!?
Phase one is present ourselves as very liberal, very open-minded, very pro-democracy to get more and more support in South Africa and all over the world, which worked obviously brilliantly. And then the theory or the strategy that they wrote it out, it's all on paper. They said that once we have the power or the levers of power, as they put it,
The Ben Shapiro Show
Ep. 2169 - BREAKING: Le Pen BANNED?!?
then we should eventually move to the second phase of the revolution. And that means using the state mechanisms to become much more aggressive in implementing socialist policies. And so the first big one was 1996 with the, in America you call it DEI, we call it BEE, which is Black Economic Empowerment, but it has nothing to do with empowerment.
The Ben Shapiro Show
Ep. 2169 - BREAKING: Le Pen BANNED?!?
It's handing out social grants and it's discriminating against people who aren't black. So they started with that in 1996, which became more and more aggressive over time, up to the point where there are now more than 140 race laws in South Africa today. So that was one strand.
The Ben Shapiro Show
Ep. 2169 - BREAKING: Le Pen BANNED?!?
Another strand was the property rights thing, where they said in 2018, we're going to start the process to change the property rights clause in the constitution so that the state can expropriate private property without compensation, which is just confiscation of property. So that's another strand. And then there's also the strand of the hate speech and real hate speech.
The Ben Shapiro Show
Ep. 2169 - BREAKING: Le Pen BANNED?!?
I mean, actually targeting a group of people, identifying them based on their ethnicity and then saying, we need to go out and kill those people. It's not offensive speech. It's calling for the boers to be slaughtered. And that's combined with political speeches, with statements such as, and this is a direct quote, all white people are criminals and they should be treated as such.
The Ben Shapiro Show
Ep. 2169 - BREAKING: Le Pen BANNED?!?
And then these politicians would burst out chanting, kill the boer, kill the farmer. And the boer is, of course, a reference to the Afrikaner people. And this has been getting worse and worse and worse up to the point where, again, as I said, you cannot ignore what's happening in South Africa.
The Ben Shapiro Show
Ep. 2169 - BREAKING: Le Pen BANNED?!?
But what's really strange is how people in South Africa and, unfortunately, in America and some other places are trying to deny the existence of the problem by saying it doesn't exist. But it's... So the farm killings, you have the names of the people who have been murdered. I mean, I knew people who have been murdered on farms.
The Ben Shapiro Show
Ep. 2169 - BREAKING: Le Pen BANNED?!?
And for someone to say, well, this problem doesn't exist, it's really, really bizarre.
The Ben Shapiro Show
Ep. 2169 - BREAKING: Le Pen BANNED?!?
Well, the counter-argument that you presented now is based on the idea that there are other problems as well, therefore you shouldn't talk about this problem. And the people who are saying this is a problem, we should do something about this, are not saying that there aren't other problems.
The Ben Shapiro Show
Ep. 2169 - BREAKING: Le Pen BANNED?!?
Just to point out the lunacy in this, one way to respond to this is there's a big problem in South Africa with the poaching of rhinos. But no one is saying, why are you talking about rhino poaching? You are discriminating against elephants that are also being poached. The fact is that rhinos are poached in disproportionate numbers and it has very particular consequences.
The Ben Shapiro Show
Ep. 2169 - BREAKING: Le Pen BANNED?!?
And so to say that the farm murders have to stop is not to say that there isn't gang-related violence in Johannesburg or Cape Town. But as far as the murders are concerned, it started in 1990. and it gradually got worse. And there's been some debates on how to calculate it.
The Ben Shapiro Show
Ep. 2169 - BREAKING: Le Pen BANNED?!?
If you use the police statistics, I think the police data is quite accurate in terms of the murders, but not in terms of the attacks. The attacks are much more like this shadow number that you don't know of than what the police say.
The Ben Shapiro Show
Ep. 2169 - BREAKING: Le Pen BANNED?!?
But according to police data, if you look at a period of two years, there were two farm attacks every day in South Africa, during which two people were murdered every week. And it's been going on and on and on up. And it's a small community. The farming communities, there are about 30,000 commercial farmers in South Africa. So it's a small community.
The Ben Shapiro Show
Ep. 2169 - BREAKING: Le Pen BANNED?!?
And if you're a farmer in South Africa, you know people who have been murdered. That's just the reality. Or you have been attacked yourself. And I personally know people who've been attacked, people who've been killed and so forth. So that's the one aspect is just the rate at which it's happening. The second aspect is the brutality.
The Ben Shapiro Show
Ep. 2169 - BREAKING: Le Pen BANNED?!?
the worst tortures you can imagine really i i can't think of worse methods of torture than the ones that that we've seen in south africa with gorging out of the eyes we've had um one farmer where i grew up had they had a shower nozzle turn up on it's the highest you know warm water they shoved the nozzle down his throat and there are many many many such examples i mean i can go on every every torture you can imagine um has been applied and these are race-based murders
The Ben Shapiro Show
Ep. 2169 - BREAKING: Le Pen BANNED?!?
So not all the victims are white. The victims are people of all races. I'm not aware of a black farmer that has been tortured. So it's a big phenomenon and a lot is happening and surely not all of them are politically motivated. Some of them certainly are. And we know that because sometimes the attackers write political slogans on the walls during these attacks.
The Ben Shapiro Show
Ep. 2169 - BREAKING: Le Pen BANNED?!?
Or they would chant slogans and then the survivors would come and say, the attacker said something like, die white man, viva Malema, who's the politician who's chanting this, kill the boy, kill the farmer.
The Ben Shapiro Show
Ep. 2169 - BREAKING: Le Pen BANNED?!?
So some of them are obviously and overtly politically motivated and some of them probably aren't, or some of them aren't, but we don't know those statistics in terms of the motivations, but it's very, very alarming.
The Ben Shapiro Show
Ep. 2169 - BREAKING: Le Pen BANNED?!?
Yeah, so he is, some people have called him the most influential. I think that's an exaggeration, but some have called him the most influential politician in Africa. He's certainly one of the most influential, and certainly in South Africa. His party has had some difficulty in the last election. But the thing is, ideologically, he's not far away from the EFF. In terms of rhetoric, he's much worse.
The Ben Shapiro Show
Ep. 2169 - BREAKING: Le Pen BANNED?!?
I mean, he's not far away from the ruling party, from the ANC. In terms of rhetoric, it's worse. And so a few years ago, he made a speech where one of the statements he made during that speech was, we are going to slit the throat of whiteness. And then everyone was applauding. And then two days after the president of South Africa, Cyril Ramaphosa publicly said,
The Ben Shapiro Show
Ep. 2169 - BREAKING: Le Pen BANNED?!?
we invite this guy to come back and join our party because we can see that deep down in his heart, he's still a member of the ANC. So we do find that the ruling party is a bit more subtle in its approach, although just as racist in terms of the policies that they are implementing. And then we have these parties to the left of them that are much more radical.
The Ben Shapiro Show
Ep. 2169 - BREAKING: Le Pen BANNED?!?
But again, ideologically, there's not much of a difference. They both, the ruling party and the EFF, think of people like Robert Mugabe as a hero, Mao Tse Tung they think is a hero, Joseph Stalin, even Maduro. They go, all these, Fidel Castro, all these communist examples. And then they would not only say that these people are heroes, they would say, we need to duplicate their policies.
The Ben Shapiro Show
Ep. 2169 - BREAKING: Le Pen BANNED?!?
We need to bring their policies. But in South Africa, it's going to work. And as far as they would be willing to concede that it hasn't worked, they would say, this time it's going to work.
The Ben Shapiro Show
Ep. 2169 - BREAKING: Le Pen BANNED?!?
Yes. So, Frantz Fanon has become more and more popular in South Africa, and it seems like in other places of the world, and his philosophy could be summarized in The Wretched of the Earth. He says that
The Ben Shapiro Show
Ep. 2169 - BREAKING: Le Pen BANNED?!?
more or less that if someone treats you like an animal you don't need to behave like a human being towards that person so it's in a way a justification of violence and now the the marxist line on that is if you are poor it is because someone stole something from you and if you are wealthy or successful it is because you exploited someone or you stole from someone so being poor by definition means that you are a victim and being wealthy by definition means you're a you're a perpetrator
The Ben Shapiro Show
Ep. 2169 - BREAKING: Le Pen BANNED?!?
But then they blend that with race nationalism, saying that only black people are poor and only white people are rich, or that's the only ones we care about. We only want to talk about wealthy white people and poor black people, when reality is much different than that, of course. And so then they blend these two by saying that
The Ben Shapiro Show
Ep. 2169 - BREAKING: Le Pen BANNED?!?
the poor and the black South Africans are the same thing and whites and wealthy South Africans are the same thing when that's not true. And then they say, and that's because they stole from us. And so we need to take this stuff. And then we have our own blend of philosophy in South Africa called the Zania critical theory.
The Ben Shapiro Show
Ep. 2169 - BREAKING: Le Pen BANNED?!?
Zania is sort of the leftist name for South Africa, which is taking some stuff from Frantz Fanon, taking some stuff from, philosophers, critical race theory in America, Robin DiAngelo, people like that. And then in a way justifying, you know, that we should apply violence. And if you apply violence, it's actually morally, it's appropriate to apply violence to the white minority.
The Ben Shapiro Show
Ep. 2169 - BREAKING: Le Pen BANNED?!?
Yes. So looking from a South African perspective at that court case, it was really bizarre to watch the arguments because they used the same legal team as was used in South Africa to defend the kill the boer, kill the farmer chant. So they would say in South Africa that
The Ben Shapiro Show
Ep. 2169 - BREAKING: Le Pen BANNED?!?
chanting about murdering people based on their ethnicity is not hate speech and then they would say it's not because you have to look at the context so don't look at the words look at the context and the context is of course apartheid so because there was apartheid we can now talk about killing people in south africa
The Ben Shapiro Show
Ep. 2169 - BREAKING: Le Pen BANNED?!?
And then the same legal team, the same lawyer argued in the case against Israel that do not look at the context. So ignore October 7. That context is irrelevant and only look at this particular statement that was made by this particular soldier or something like that. And so it's really bizarre. And so the argument was that
The Ben Shapiro Show
Ep. 2169 - BREAKING: Le Pen BANNED?!?
we need to do this because we have a strong moral conviction and we have a strong sense of morality. And it's in the consistent application of our idea of morality that we have to take Israel to court. When, if you really look what that sense of morality is and you compare the, and you look at the application there of, how some of the world's worst dictators, historically, they regard as heroes.
The Ben Shapiro Show
Ep. 2169 - BREAKING: Le Pen BANNED?!?
Currently, they would defend them. They would not arrest them when they come to South Africa, even though the International Criminal Court have sanctions on them and so forth.
The Ben Shapiro Show
Ep. 2169 - BREAKING: Le Pen BANNED?!?
So it's really bizarre, but they seem to get away with that because there is this movement in the world that is so hell-bent either on participating in these type of activities or defending it and pretending that, you know, it's okay because morally it's appropriate to be on this side of the argument.
The Ben Shapiro Show
Ep. 2169 - BREAKING: Le Pen BANNED?!?
Yeah, that's the important question. So one way to answer it is in your book, Three Easy Steps to Destroy America, it's in a sense the answer. You said that America, there's a sense of unity in America because of a shared philosophy, a shared culture, and a shared history. The problem in South Africa is that we don't have any of those.
The Ben Shapiro Show
Ep. 2169 - BREAKING: Le Pen BANNED?!?
So we have different... The proper way to think of South Africa is a region. So East Africa is a series of countries. North Africa is a list of countries. West Africa is a list of countries. South Africa is one country. But in South Africa, there are many nations living in South Africa. And within these nations, they have shared philosophy, shared culture, shared history.
The Ben Shapiro Show
Ep. 2169 - BREAKING: Le Pen BANNED?!?
But as a whole, we don't have that. And the problem is if you govern... Pretty much the equivalent of the European Union as the government of Europe. If you approach things like that, necessarily it would lead to conflict and friction. And so the only long term solution is to work towards a more sustainable political dispensation or political system. A federalism. Yeah, exactly.
The Ben Shapiro Show
Ep. 2169 - BREAKING: Le Pen BANNED?!?
Federalism, a decentralized system that's based on the idea of self-governance that local communities or cultural communities or however you want to frame it can have a degree of self-governance because currently we have this very big country. The distance from the north to the south is the distance from Rome to London. And it's just as diverse, perhaps even more diverse than Western Europe.
The Ben Shapiro Show
Ep. 2169 - BREAKING: Le Pen BANNED?!?
It is more diverse than Western Europe. And so we have this central government trying to enforce its ideas, a government that says our philosophy or ideology is a blend of race, nationalism, and socialism, as if that's never been tried before. And so it's just not going to work. It's going to lead to more and more friction.
The Ben Shapiro Show
Ep. 2169 - BREAKING: Le Pen BANNED?!?
So we need to move towards either federalism or some form of decentralization, and that could take many forms.
The Ben Shapiro Show
Ep. 2169 - BREAKING: Le Pen BANNED?!?
Yes, so if democracy means two wolves and a lamb have to vote on what's for dinner, You shouldn't blame the lamb for losing faith in democracy. But the good news is that's not democracy. That's not what democracy is supposed to be. Democracy is about self-governance.
The Ben Shapiro Show
Ep. 2169 - BREAKING: Le Pen BANNED?!?
And unfortunately, we have this tyranny of the majority that many Americans have warned about over the centuries, where some ideas are just enforced. And let me give you a quick example. We have the... the name changes in South Africa. That's going to make the country better.
The Ben Shapiro Show
Ep. 2169 - BREAKING: Le Pen BANNED?!?
Just change all the offensive names, which actually started there and now it's sort of flown, spilled over to America as well. And so they change, there would be street names and city names named after murderers, people who had just murdered innocent people. And if you ask the ruling party, how do you determine if something is offensive or not?
The Ben Shapiro Show
Ep. 2169 - BREAKING: Le Pen BANNED?!?
Like Church Street is offensive, but the name of a murderer is not offensive. Then they would say, we are the people, we represent the people, and therefore we decide. And so it's just not going to work. And I think the answer is to go... to the Jefferson line of eternal solutions. We're not trying to figure out some new ideological solution that no one has ever thought of.
The Ben Shapiro Show
Ep. 2169 - BREAKING: Le Pen BANNED?!?
It's been a principle since the beginning, since Rome and Athens and Jerusalem, the idea that there must be some form of self-governance. People should be able to govern themselves. And with that in mind, you should have mutual relations with other communities. And yes, it is very politically incorrect to talk about that. But we need to break that wall because that's the only way forward.
The Ben Shapiro Show
Ep. 2169 - BREAKING: Le Pen BANNED?!?
That's the only solution for South Africa.
The Ben Shapiro Show
Ep. 2169 - BREAKING: Le Pen BANNED?!?
Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. And so they try to blend it with all these sort of these slogans that have been devised to sort of just swipe something off the table. I think there was a saying, one of the big Afrikaner entrepreneurs of the previous century, Anton Rupert, who was world famous in his days, said that you can't go to bed and rest assured at night if your neighbor is hungry.
The Ben Shapiro Show
Ep. 2169 - BREAKING: Le Pen BANNED?!?
And so that's also, and that's an important thing for us as the Afrikaner community. We don't want to find a solution for us at the expense of everyone else, because that's not a solution either. The solution must be a solution for everyone. And I think what we have currently is a problem for everyone. There are very few people who would still say that South Africa is working.
The Ben Shapiro Show
Ep. 2169 - BREAKING: Le Pen BANNED?!?
They would concede that it's failing. The debate is, is it a failed state or a failing state? but then they would sort of defend the government still. And so it's not working for everyone, for anyone. And so we need to find a solution that would work for people. And the idea that bringing the government closer to the people is an eternal solution.
The Ben Shapiro Show
Ep. 2169 - BREAKING: Le Pen BANNED?!?
It's something that has been the idea since the Roman Republic and before that.
The Ben Shapiro Show
Ep. 2169 - BREAKING: Le Pen BANNED?!?
Yes, it's growing. It's fast growing. So firstly... it's not that controversial anymore to say, look, guys, this isn't working. Again, you would have people in the media defending it. There was a piece just published today in South Africa, how expropriation of property would rejuvenate the economy. So you get that, you still get that. But again,
The Ben Shapiro Show
Ep. 2169 - BREAKING: Le Pen BANNED?!?
but the idea that it's not working is is widely accepted i think the idea that we we need to bring government closer to the people is also widely accepted um people people agree with that so there's talk about cape secession sort of the western province there's really a movement they're saying we need to break away from south africa
The Ben Shapiro Show
Ep. 2169 - BREAKING: Le Pen BANNED?!?
The Zulus in KwaZulu-Natal are concerned that the central government isn't representing them. There's a project called Warania in the Northern Cape to develop an Afrikaner city. So there are already many such projects. And I think that's naturally where things are headed. There's going to be some form of a crash, you might say, or something's going to happen in South Africa.
The Ben Shapiro Show
Ep. 2169 - BREAKING: Le Pen BANNED?!?
And we must just ensure that... When something happens, it's a turn to a better system rather than chaotic violence and warfare in the streets or anything like that. Yes.
The Ben Shapiro Show
Ep. 2169 - BREAKING: Le Pen BANNED?!?
And so, and you've spoken about this a lot. It's one thing to talk about rights and rights are great. But if there's no focus on responsibility added to that, then the rights don't mean anything. So almost all of these rights in terms of the difference between de jure and de facto, the de facto reality has gotten worse.
The Ben Shapiro Show
Ep. 2169 - BREAKING: Le Pen BANNED?!?
Constitution guarantees right to health care, but in reality, the health system is deteriorating. The Constitution guarantees good education, but in reality, the schools are failing. We can go down the list. This idea that if you have something good written as a document, that means the country has been saved is very naive.
The Ben Shapiro Show
Ep. 2169 - BREAKING: Le Pen BANNED?!?
I think maybe it's one of the consequences of modern ideologies that you look at the text and that gives you an overview of what's happening. But you have to look at what's happening in reality and compare those two. And the reality between the written document and what we call the actual constitution and the written constitution has gone like this. It's not comparable anymore.
The Ben Shapiro Show
Ep. 2169 - BREAKING: Le Pen BANNED?!?
And so the question is, it's a great document, but what does it mean to have a great document if that's just not reality? And I think there's an important lesson in that also. And this is something that Edmund Burke cautioned against with the French Revolution, saying it's one thing to have great theory,
The Ben Shapiro Show
Ep. 2169 - BREAKING: Le Pen BANNED?!?
But you need to look at experience and what's happening in the real world before you look at the theory.
The Ben Shapiro Show
Ep. 2169 - BREAKING: Le Pen BANNED?!?
Thank you. Well, so... So we are very grateful for the focus they're putting on what's happening in South Africa. They have announced a process of refugee status to farmers. Now that in a certain sense is good because there are people who want to leave. But I think our message to them is a lot of people and the majority wouldn't want to leave.
The Ben Shapiro Show
Ep. 2169 - BREAKING: Le Pen BANNED?!?
It's almost like saying to Americans, listen, there's trouble in America, you need to all move to Europe or something like that. I mean, we've been there for hundreds of years. That's where our culture was developed. That's where our ancestors are buried. And so we are very attached to Africa. And we are concerned that if we just leave in big numbers, then we will dissolve as a community.
The Ben Shapiro Show
Ep. 2169 - BREAKING: Le Pen BANNED?!?
And we want to see a future for our community. But there are people who want to leave. And if they want to leave, that's fine. But I think a more sustainable approach would be to work towards some form of dispensational change, recognizing firstly that it's not working, that the problem is wider than just not that the wrong person is the president of the country.
The Ben Shapiro Show
Ep. 2169 - BREAKING: Le Pen BANNED?!?
If you put a white liberal, make a white liberal the president of South Africa, it's not going to work either. And because it's a system problem and we need to work towards a better system. And we don't want other countries to solve our problems on our behalf. But I think firstly, a recognition that there needs to be a more decentralized solution.
The Ben Shapiro Show
Ep. 2169 - BREAKING: Le Pen BANNED?!?
And then secondly, support for initiatives in South Africa to try to promote this. I think that would be good.
The Ben Shapiro Show
Ep. 2169 - BREAKING: Le Pen BANNED?!?
Yeah. So, so, um, there are many ways in which people can help. One way is just to help to talk about this. The more people talk about this, the better, the easier it is to make solutions, the easier it is, for example, for the government to do something or people in Europe to support. So help spread the message, that's one way. But another way is there are many institutions in South Africa.
The Ben Shapiro Show
Ep. 2169 - BREAKING: Le Pen BANNED?!?
If people spend a little time looking into what's happening in South Africa, they will find that there are a lot of institutions who are who are working towards some form of decentralization or working towards community organizing, towards safety initiatives, towards things like that. And I think support for such institutions will definitely go a long way.
The Ben Shapiro Show
Ep. 2169 - BREAKING: Le Pen BANNED?!?
Thank you very much. Thank you for having me on the show.