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Detective Connor O'Donnell

Appearances

Dateline NBC

Deadly Obsession

1017.989

Yes. Yeah, we have to look at the... what the shot selection tells us and the number of shots, what it tells us. If you consider a 10-round magazine with one in the gun, that's 11. That means somebody's most likely emptied their gun.

Dateline NBC

Deadly Obsession

1035.884

Emptied, shot it dry.

Dateline NBC

Deadly Obsession

1039.264

Yes, exactly. And that's what it looked like, was rage.

Dateline NBC

Deadly Obsession

1169.133

Yep. Where do you start? You generally start just in the center. I mean, with the immediate family.

Dateline NBC

Deadly Obsession

1204.218

Certainly, yeah.

Dateline NBC

Deadly Obsession

1219.752

Yes. He was on a canoe trip in Missouri.

Dateline NBC

Deadly Obsession

1315.939

This is a hard question I have to ask you, but do you think you have any ideas what happened?

Dateline NBC

Deadly Obsession

1365.599

Oh, we considered everything.

Dateline NBC

Deadly Obsession

1372.141

I believe it was a bank alert. A check was discovered that had been cashed on Mike's account. It was just a blank check forged.

Dateline NBC

Deadly Obsession

1387.915

Right.

Dateline NBC

Deadly Obsession

1393.378

It's obviously something we have to run down.

Dateline NBC

Deadly Obsession

1424.232

The first thing you do is try to find out who it was that cashed it.

Dateline NBC

Deadly Obsession

1436.6

An associate. I wouldn't say a friend. Somebody that would have known him.

Dateline NBC

Deadly Obsession

1450.436

Obviously, we had to rule it out.

Dateline NBC

Deadly Obsession

1469.325

Yes. People react to polygraphs in different ways. If they're just, yeah, let's get it over with. When can we do it? If they have that kind of attitude, that we look at them one way. If they're like, Uh, yeah, maybe I will. Then we look at them a different way.

Dateline NBC

Deadly Obsession

1536.299

I'm like...

Dateline NBC

Deadly Obsession

1538.28

Okay, all right.

Dateline NBC

Deadly Obsession

1542.181

So it sits in the back of my mind that, oh, here's the person we have to check on because it's not likely somebody is driving 500 miles to do this.

Dateline NBC

Deadly Obsession

1733.15

She agreed to an interview, but it had to be in her lawyer's office.

Dateline NBC

Deadly Obsession

1751.468

She was calm. She was reserved, very put together.

Dateline NBC

Deadly Obsession

1770.828

No, she just said generally that Mike had a propensity for getting himself in trouble.

Dateline NBC

Deadly Obsession

1793.705

She went to the King supermarket, she went to Target, she went to the AutoZone, and she went to the gas station.

Dateline NBC

Deadly Obsession

1818.681

All that's adding up. I mean, the errands were absolutely, that was certain that she did that. There was no question on that.

Dateline NBC

Deadly Obsession

1832.443

And I said, what was purchased? And he said, two five gallon gas cans and a cigarette lighter.

Dateline NBC

Deadly Obsession

1840.032

That's what we didn't know. That's what we had to try to find out.

Dateline NBC

Deadly Obsession

19.913

We didn't have DNA, fingerprints, anything like that.

Dateline NBC

Deadly Obsession

1922.868

Yes, through the King Soopers and the Target and the AutoZone and the gas station.

Dateline NBC

Deadly Obsession

1932.095

She had a newer car. So I'm thinking, what on earth could a person in her situation buy at AutoZone?

Dateline NBC

Deadly Obsession

1952.167

I called up the AutoZone and said, can you check back through your receipts? And he went back through and I said, what was purchased? And he said, two five-gallon gas cans and a cigarette lighter.

Dateline NBC

Deadly Obsession

1964.689

That's what we didn't know. That's what we had to try to find out.

Dateline NBC

Deadly Obsession

1972.078

The phone records were blank from 3 o'clock on Saturday till 7 o'clock on Sunday.

Dateline NBC

Deadly Obsession

1982.678

The phone was not used during that 27-hour period. I didn't just have that period of time to look at. I had a period of time before that. There was no other blank periods of that length.

Dateline NBC

Deadly Obsession

1995.746

She was regularly using her phone. That period stood out.

Dateline NBC

Deadly Obsession

2006.206

To get from Granby, where she said she hiked, the most direct route is through Rocky Mountain National Park, which has video at both ends at the guard gates.

Dateline NBC

Deadly Obsession

2021.193

Everyone that comes through there.

Dateline NBC

Deadly Obsession

2023.334

We sent detectives out there, and they obtained the video from both ends of the park to make sure that she had not gone through there, and she hadn't.

Dateline NBC

Deadly Obsession

2053.402

He's asking her questions like I would ask, you know, where were you? Can you prove that you weren't involved in this? She said, I left Saturday and went for a drive in the mountains, and I didn't come back till Sunday, Sunday night. And he said, well, you got a hotel receipt or something? And she says, no, I slept in my car. Okay, well, did you see anybody?

Dateline NBC

Deadly Obsession

2075.921

Did you see the fires that were out there?

Dateline NBC

Deadly Obsession

2080.261

Big forest fires.

Dateline NBC

Deadly Obsession

2108.703

she could get to Topeka and out of Kansas without stopping for gas.

Dateline NBC

Deadly Obsession

2140.618

I thought it was a possibility that she would have. And just to cover our bases, I sent a couple detectives on I-70 and hitting every gas station convenience store along I-70 to try to find video or any evidence that she had been in any of those places.

Dateline NBC

Deadly Obsession

2171.94

There was a clerk that was 70% sure that she had seen Dana on Saturday night, which would have been appropriate to the time it took her to travel from Denver to Topeka.

Dateline NBC

Deadly Obsession

2185.93

They showed her a photo, and she said, yeah, that lady looks familiar. I think she stopped here.

Dateline NBC

Deadly Obsession

2200.554

As far as physical evidence, no.

Dateline NBC

Deadly Obsession

2211.04

Right.

Dateline NBC

Deadly Obsession

2216.744

Right. It doesn't mean she wasn't there, just we haven't found the physical evidence.

Dateline NBC

Deadly Obsession

26.176

Yeah, I know it's incredibly frustrating for them.

Dateline NBC

Deadly Obsession

263.667

Yeah, it's not usual to get that type of call out here. There's not a lot of gunshots, not a lot of violence out here.

Dateline NBC

Deadly Obsession

276.976

I'd seen murder-suicides before, and that was the first thought that came to my mind. In that neighborhood, it's typically not going to be a typical crime. It's going to be a family affair, and somebody shoots somebody and shoots themselves. And that's what I believed I was walking into.

Dateline NBC

Deadly Obsession

298.668

Right.

Dateline NBC

Deadly Obsession

3008.968

g. g. g. g, g, g. g. g. g. g. g. g. g. g. g. g, la. g. g

Dateline NBC

Deadly Obsession

304.791

I didn't turn on any lights when I went down there, I just used my flashlight. I could tell there were casings down there, I could tell there were multiple shots.

Dateline NBC

Deadly Obsession

3287.988

I was glad for the family. The work I did on the case was shown to be good, so I was happy about that. But still, you know, you're not jumping for joy after somebody gets convicted of a murder because nobody wins.

Dateline NBC

Deadly Obsession

330.29

And he'd been shot multiple times, too.

Dateline NBC

Deadly Obsession

335.933

Yeah, it's obviously not a murder-suicide.

Dateline NBC

Deadly Obsession

340.956

Because, well, when there was no gun present, way too many rounds in both of them to be a murder-suicide.

Dateline NBC

Deadly Obsession

352.731

Seen some pretty bad ones, but this one was significant.

Dateline NBC

Deadly Obsession

370.288

It was a long search, and we searched a lot of places. It was a needle in a haystack.

Dateline NBC

Deadly Obsession

3761

I don't know.

Dateline NBC

Deadly Obsession

422.062

Well, I didn't spend a lot of time counting. I knew it was multiple times by the casings. It appeared that he'd been shot in the belly and then rolled over and he took the sheets and covers with him as he rolled off the bed. But then somebody stood over him and shot down into him as evidenced by the rounds that we found underneath him.

Dateline NBC

Deadly Obsession

4224.127

Yeah, it concerned me a little bit. I thought, yeah, it's possible she could be seen as sympathetic to the jury.

Dateline NBC

Deadly Obsession

4261.77

Well, I can see that it's not accurate because I've obviously made an error on that. It was coming across as effective.

Dateline NBC

Deadly Obsession

4282.489

I always feel a great deal of pressure to solve any murder.

Dateline NBC

Deadly Obsession

4334.811

The irony was so thick I could have cut it with a knife.

Dateline NBC

Deadly Obsession

453.843

My belief is the person came in after. But in looking for hiding places, somebody could have hidden in there, but it didn't really make sense to me. It seemed to make more sense that they came in afterwards, waited until they went to sleep, and then snuck in the house.

Dateline NBC

Deadly Obsession

4571.343

They know what they're doing. They've got their witnesses in order. They've all been briefed. Everybody's on the same page.

Dateline NBC

Deadly Obsession

4596.499

We also have, and it hasn't been mentioned yet, a Patty Williams in Wakini, Kansas.

Dateline NBC

Deadly Obsession

4618.435

She pointed to the person in position four on the lineup and said she was about 70% sure that the woman in four was the woman that had been in the store.

Dateline NBC

Deadly Obsession

476.475

No, no forced entry, no. The sliding door was ajar, but Mike and Karen smoked on the back deck of the house and didn't lock the door, which in southwest Topeka, that's probably not that unusual.

Dateline NBC

Deadly Obsession

492.128

Yeah, and I believe that's the way the person entered.

Dateline NBC

Deadly Obsession

707.364

There was a coffee cup found on the kitchen table in the house and a coffee cup in Mike's vehicle out in the parking lot in the driveway.

Dateline NBC

Deadly Obsession

728.087

Yeah, we found them on the video.

Dateline NBC

Deadly Obsession

759.457

Honestly, I'm going through robbery, burglary, that kind of thing.

Dateline NBC

Deadly Obsession

776.336

From a convenience store.

Dateline NBC

Deadly Obsession

790.827

Yes. The next door neighbor had spoken to Mike and they'd mentioned that they were going to the casino that night.

Dateline NBC

Deadly Obsession

800.953

We went to the casino, got with security people, got all the videotape that we could.

Dateline NBC

Deadly Obsession

807.537

Yeah, we found them on the video and kind of through the cameras, walked through the casino with them to the different slot machines that they'd played at.

Dateline NBC

Deadly Obsession

819.725

No, no, they're just a regular couple having a good time that night.

Dateline NBC

Deadly Obsession

835.906

Yes. Yes.

Dateline NBC

Deadly Obsession

839.507

No one followed them. They didn't have any confrontations with anybody.

Dateline NBC

Deadly Obsession

849.446

Followed them out, at least to the parking lot. When they get out to the parking lot, it's dark, it's late at night, so I don't believe it gets them all the way to their car.

Dateline NBC

Deadly Obsession

863.261

It could have been.

Dateline NBC

Deadly Obsession

868.241

We obtained videotape from that store and found that they had in fact gone in there, gotten coffee. That's where the coffee cups came from.

Dateline NBC

Deadly Obsession

883.627

No, there was no one around the store. Nobody followed them in. Nobody followed them out. They were by themselves.

Dateline NBC

Deadly Obsession

896.155

Right. It doesn't appear that they were followed at all.

Dateline NBC

Deadly Obsession

903.342

There was a report from one of the neighbors that they'd heard a car slam around 2.30, 3 o'clock.

Dateline NBC

Deadly Obsession

909.087

Yeah, that's probably Mike and Karen coming home, that they heard a car door slam.

Dateline NBC

Deadly Obsession

974.581

In the basement, Mike had $900 plus, and Karen had $200 or $300 in her clothes, and her purse was there. Everything was there that should have been there, and it didn't appear like anything had been taken. So any jewelry? No, nothing.

Dateline NBC

Deadly Obsession

991.617

Everything seemed to be there.

Dateline NBC

Poison Twist

1129.048

They had the business together, but there was no... No large sums of money that Bill would have gotten of Mary's death.

Dateline NBC

Poison Twist

1187.285

Bill's not an emotional person, so he didn't seem very upset. He wasn't very outgoing in his emotions. So that was a concern when we first brought him in and talked to him. We're like, he should be more upset. He's not shedding any tears? Well, we're not speaking to Bill until five months later after Mary's death.

Dateline NBC

Poison Twist

1216.077

He signed a consent. We went to the office, and he was very helpful. I mean, he was very forthgoing. He gave us everything we asked for.

Dateline NBC

Poison Twist

1275.285

Yes, there was a lot of detail in that letter.

Dateline NBC

Poison Twist

1297.217

We begin to wonder, was there a relationship beforehand?

Dateline NBC

Poison Twist

1305.879

If it was before Mary's death, obviously that would have been a motive. Then we would have had to say, well, Bill now has a motive for this.

Dateline NBC

Poison Twist

1313.101

Yes, and that came up. That was an obvious red flag, and we were very concerned about it.

Dateline NBC

Poison Twist

1327.209

I received the letter stating that Adam did this. He was responsible. He told this person that he did it.

Dateline NBC

Poison Twist

1359.631

Yes, there was a lot of detail in that letter.

Dateline NBC

Poison Twist

1363.694

No, we didn't have anything on Adam.

Dateline NBC

Poison Twist

1485.827

Why did it say he did it? He thought he'd gain financially. If his mother passed away, he thought he'd have a financial gain. Also that there was arguments between him and his parents that he was upset with his mother. So it listed that as two of the reasonings.

Dateline NBC

Poison Twist

1512.507

We sat down, we talked as to how we want to go about with Adam. We said, let's bring him up here. Let's see if he comes up in his vehicle. The letter says the colchicine is in the vehicle. We'll talk to Adam. We'll see if he comes up here with the colchicine.

Dateline NBC

Poison Twist

1527.697

Yes.

Dateline NBC

Poison Twist

1534.223

We were trying to get a feel for Adam at that point to see, you know, is he responsible for his mother's death? So we spoke to him. We then showed him parts of the letter that said where this Colchicine would be, in which he was taken back.

Dateline NBC

Poison Twist

1554.698

Yes. But we still had some concerns also by his reactions. In what way? He was just hesitant to let us go look in his vehicle.

Dateline NBC

Poison Twist

1605.066

They go out there and they search the vehicle right where it says it's going to be in the letter. And we pull out a cardboard sleeve with the colchicine inside the sleeve.

Dateline NBC

Poison Twist

1624

A big moment.

Dateline NBC

Poison Twist

1666.738

They had an email address. It also had Adam's name on there. And from there, the Mr. Adam Yoder 1990 Gmail account, which was very important to us, was listed on there.

Dateline NBC

Poison Twist

1684.812

At that moment, we're thinking, would he bring the poison up here with him? I mean, it doesn't make sense. If you killed your mother and you got the colchicine, you wouldn't drive up to the sheriff's office with the colchicine knowingly in your car. You would get rid of it. But again, you have an honest letter saying he admitted to doing it and that the colchicine would be in his car.

Dateline NBC

Poison Twist

1702.336

So you kind of have a split reaction as to which way are we looking at it.

Dateline NBC

Poison Twist

1742.476

Yes.

Dateline NBC

Poison Twist

1748.602

No, we were comfortable enough to let him go, but we didn't say it absolutely had nothing to do with it.

Dateline NBC

Poison Twist

1866.354

It was frustrating. I mean, there was a lot of nights we were frustrated by this case. We looked at Adam, but yet nothing else was pointing the finger at Adam. It just wasn't fitting. And the same with Bill. We'd want to say, okay, Bill did this, but why did Bill do it?

Dateline NBC

Poison Twist

1899.723

We were able to verify all this information that he wasn't having phone conversations, text messages with her prior to Mary's death.

Dateline NBC

Poison Twist

1915.342

We just wanted to speak to her to see if she knew anything about Bill, about Mary, other than, you know, outside of the office.

Dateline NBC

Poison Twist

1968.135

No.

Dateline NBC

Poison Twist

1971.436

Yes. They would talk on and off. They would text each other. They would get back together, and then they would break up again.

Dateline NBC

Poison Twist

1992.116

She makes some comments about Adam's acting strangely and isn't acting right.

Dateline NBC

Poison Twist

1999.539

Yes. She's kind of hinting that, you know, the way Adam is acting, that he may be responsible for his mother's death.

Dateline NBC

Poison Twist

2014.246

He took a shot and said, did you write the letter? And what did she say? She said yes.

Dateline NBC

Poison Twist

21.888

Mary was a chiropractor, very social, very active.

Dateline NBC

Poison Twist

2181.376

Yes.

Dateline NBC

Poison Twist

2184.999

Absolutely.

Dateline NBC

Poison Twist

2186.52

Yes. Once she admitted to writing that letter, it was definitely a turn of events for us.

Dateline NBC

Poison Twist

2212.991

Yes, I think at this point she's becoming worried about where things are turning and how it's looking for her. Because if we didn't arrest Adam when we found the culture scene, now she knows we don't necessarily believe what's in that letter.

Dateline NBC

Poison Twist

2247.194

So anything we asked her, she says, I know things are pointing at me, but it's Adam. She always tried to point the finger back at Adam.

Dateline NBC

Poison Twist

2286.043

We wanted to speak to her again, but at this point now we also had a lot more police work to do.

Dateline NBC

Poison Twist

2303.913

There's a kitchen area in the back where they would sit and have lunch and make their drinks. If Mary was out in this other room a couple offices away working on patients, Katie would have the time to go back there and do something.

Dateline NBC

Poison Twist

2323.683

Correct. Once we learned Katie was the author of this letter, we got a search warrant for her house, for her cell phone. We also, we had the computers from the office that we had already secured. We wanted to get all those items and send them out to the forensic lab, to the computer lab, to have them analyzed and see what data was on those.

Dateline NBC

Poison Twist

2352.213

Katie had accessed the Mr. Adam Yoder account from not only home, but from the office.

Dateline NBC

Poison Twist

2368.449

All this evidence comes in against her. Nothing's coming back on Bill, and nothing came back on Adam.

Dateline NBC

Poison Twist

2388.644

Yes.

Dateline NBC

Poison Twist

2390.685

Yes.

Dateline NBC

Poison Twist

2394.207

Absolutely. What would motivate her? Why would this girl kill Mary? I mean, what would be the reason behind it? We started looking at the relationship between Adam and Katie.

Dateline NBC

Poison Twist

29.605

Did somebody deliberately give this to Mary? Did somebody poison Mary?

Dateline NBC

Poison Twist

3789.471

Katie, I believe, has another side to her other than this side that everybody sees from her that she presents to everybody. If this is true, this is a diabolical side. Yes. An evil side.

Dateline NBC

Poison Twist

4016.886

Protect you from what, Adam?

Dateline NBC

Poison Twist

403.185

Did somebody poison Mary? Did somebody deliberately give this to Mary?

Dateline NBC

Poison Twist

801.894

She asked if we would get involved in the investigation to determine how Mary got this in her system.

Dateline NBC

Poison Twist

811.814

Yes, at this point, we're like, well, we need to get ahold of the ME's office to see exactly, you know, what they have. What did they rule as the cause of death?

Dateline NBC

Poison Twist

829.025

That they didn't know. That's when they started looking at different things. She took all these supplements. They looked at supplement contamination. Anything there? Never. We finally got the test back from there and nothing from there. Negative.

Dateline NBC

Poison Twist

844.63

If you're talking gout medicine, it's like you'd have to take anywhere from 40 to 60 pills, depending on your size. You'd have to take it all at once to be a lethal dose.

Dateline NBC

Poison Twist

860.605

We talked to the family. We started talking to people. We don't believe it's suicide.

Dateline NBC

Poison Twist

867.75

Did somebody poison Mary? Did somebody deliberately give this to Mary? We sat down with the ME's office and went through everything, all the autopsy. At that point, we were looking at it as a homicide.

Dateline NBC

Poison Twist

945.41

Yes, there is the TV show House, which had colchicine.

Dateline NBC

Poison Twist

954.235

Yes. Did a patient come in that day and do something that we don't know about? Did they give Mary, you know, something to eat? Any obvious suspects?

Dateline NBC

Poison Twist

973.445

At this point, basically, just because he was the husband. In these types of cases, it always seems to be the spouse is the one responsible if it's a poisoning case.

Dateline NBC

A Little Patch of Perfect

1374.056

Could you smell any smoke in the air or anything? Nope. So he was collecting stuff for the fire? Yes. And that's what he explained to you? Yes. When you left, to your knowledge, what was your dad going to go do?

Dateline NBC

A Little Patch of Perfect

1694.898

I'm going to ask you a couple questions. What time did you leave on July 3rd?

Dateline NBC

A Little Patch of Perfect

1958.226

Let me ask you a question. What do you guys think happened?

Dateline NBC

A Little Patch of Perfect

2103.345

There's a firearm missing from the house. So we need a list of everything of a pistol caliber that anybody has ever seen.

Dateline NBC

A Little Patch of Perfect

2527.545

You have not had a sexual relationship with anybody in four years. We're not going to find any evidence of it. When we test your bed sheets, we're not going to find any male DNA in any way, shape, or form. When we test your vehicle, and we swab the seats, and we swab the back seat.

Dateline NBC

A Little Patch of Perfect

2546.54

What about Roy?

Dateline NBC

A Little Patch of Perfect

2551.857

Last name begins with Bart.

Dateline NBC

A Little Patch of Perfect

2561.765

How long ago did he pass away?

Dateline NBC

A Little Patch of Perfect

2576.84

Okay, so you're not using it. So when we look at the financial records, it hasn't been used in over four years. No. And it's going to come back to somebody that's deceased.

Dateline NBC

A Little Patch of Perfect

2589.488

Have you ever had a physical relationship with anyone other than Gary since y'all been married? No.

Dateline NBC

A Little Patch of Perfect

2599.759

Knowing that we're going to find in the history of y'all's marriage... I'm talking the whole entire thing. I'm not talking the last five years, ten years, or since it went rocky. I'm talking forever.

Dateline NBC

A Little Patch of Perfect

2624.79

Rusty Barton.

Dateline NBC

A Little Patch of Perfect

2628.252

So Rusty is his son. Where's Rusty?

Dateline NBC

A Little Patch of Perfect

2633.254

When was the last time you interacted with Rusty?

Dateline NBC

A Little Patch of Perfect

2639.377

Okay, but in the last year. So was that physical relationship then in the last year?

Dateline NBC

A Little Patch of Perfect

2644.379

When was that?

Dateline NBC

A Little Patch of Perfect

2654.244

And when we go get Rusty's DNA, where are we going to find it?

Dateline NBC

A Little Patch of Perfect

2658.747

Anywhere in your house?

Dateline NBC

A Little Patch of Perfect

2660.228

Where did y'all have your relationship a year ago?

Dateline NBC

A Little Patch of Perfect

2672.175

Do you have a tattoo?

Dateline NBC

A Little Patch of Perfect

2675.157

XOXO? Uh-huh.

Dateline NBC

A Little Patch of Perfect

2678.055

What is that in reference to?

Dateline NBC

A Little Patch of Perfect

2683.237

What did he have to say about it?

Dateline NBC

A Little Patch of Perfect

2687.538

How long ago did you get it?

Dateline NBC

A Little Patch of Perfect

2847.365

Here's the thing. If we don't do our job by pushing this, then that... I'm doing what you're supposed to do. No, hey, hey, hey. I'm not just doing what I'm supposed to do. I'm giving you an opportunity that I ain't got to give you.

Dateline NBC

A Little Patch of Perfect

2878.806

Y'all are talking on the phone every single day. You wake up, Melody. Melody and coffee. You go to bed, Melody. She has talked to you beforehand and since then. No, sir. Don't let me find out.

Dateline NBC

A Little Patch of Perfect

2915.299

So somebody is going to spend the rest of their damn life in prison for this. And whoever helped them, if they don't get on the front end of it, they're going to do the same damn thing. You follow me? That ain't speculation, brother. That's a fact.

Dateline NBC

Deadly Entanglement

1015.264

That's right. It's not a normal event unless he's having an affair with this lady. She's a mutual friend.

Dateline NBC

Deadly Entanglement

1082.307

We did not know that was something, sometimes you think you heard everything and something new comes up.

Dateline NBC

Deadly Entanglement

1099.561

Yeah, it was no big deal. We needed to find out as much as possible about their relationship. Was there a major jealousy going on?

Dateline NBC

Deadly Entanglement

1157.797

All the suspects I've interviewed over the years, that's one of the first times I've seen that. He was just like, he's really psyching himself up that he wanted to have his emotions in control.

Dateline NBC

Deadly Entanglement

1172.509

Very suspicious, very suspicious.

Dateline NBC

Deadly Entanglement

1182.618

That's correct. That was sent to the lab.

Dateline NBC

Deadly Entanglement

1191.259

The person who made that print had stepped in some blood.

Dateline NBC

Deadly Entanglement

1202.361

If we found the correct shoe that would match that, that would be very huge.

Dateline NBC

Deadly Entanglement

1219.4

There was nothing that we could even come remotely close to charging him with the murder of his wife. Just because he was acting funny.

Dateline NBC

Deadly Entanglement

148.325

That's correct.

Dateline NBC

Deadly Entanglement

1603.687

It was later that morning. It was around 8, 9 o'clock that morning.

Dateline NBC

Deadly Entanglement

1635.922

We probably talked with her an hour, hour and a half.

Dateline NBC

Deadly Entanglement

1640.866

Didn't seem to be too concerned.

Dateline NBC

Deadly Entanglement

1767.272

That's correct.

Dateline NBC

Deadly Entanglement

1780.476

Scott was still involved with her, and I'm not sure if Desiree knew that he was still involved with her.

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Deadly Entanglement

1821.94

We asked her if Scott had told her to... give him an alibi or tell her what to tell the police or anything like that. And she said, no, he never talked to her other than he notified her that Desiree had been killed.

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Deadly Entanglement

1837.509

If you know anything regarding this death and you're trying to make up a story or protect Scott, the truth is going to come out eventually. And the longer you hide things, you're not being honest with us and truthful with us, you could be charged.

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Deadly Entanglement

1856.256

For the most part, yes.

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Deadly Entanglement

1861.579

There was. We weren't sure if she was really telling us the truth.

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Deadly Entanglement

1872.525

Yeah, we need to find out how deep a relationship they have. Do they see each other more than what she was telling us or what Scott was telling us?

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Deadly Entanglement

2080.785

Just a couple days after the funeral, he was talking to a young lady at a motorcycle dealership. He asked for a hug, which is kind of normal and, you know, need a little emotional support. Then he asked her out to dinner.

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Deadly Entanglement

2096.61

Yeah. It just didn't seem to add up that he was really devastated by the death of Desiree.

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Deadly Entanglement

2117.412

That's correct. Each individual handles different stress in their lives, handle it different. We did not know what would be normal for his reaction.

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Deadly Entanglement

2146.193

That definitely would be a motive to get Desiree out of the picture.

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Deadly Entanglement

2152.802

It makes us work harder to find out if there's any connection that would, did Paige commit this crime? Or did Scott have Paige do it for him? It was just more unanswered questions for the investigation.

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Deadly Entanglement

2181.157

It was not.

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Deadly Entanglement

2188.07

We had nothing in the house that matched any type of shoes that he had in the house.

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Deadly Entanglement

2202.472

It showed that he was in the Tri-Cities area during those times. He was on the route that he would take. So nothing was suspicious.

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Deadly Entanglement

2234.935

Oh, yes.

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Deadly Entanglement

2459.134

Oh, certainly. We wanted to find out the relationship that he had with Paige. Did he know anything about the relationship between Scott and Paige? Did he know anything about Desiree?

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Deadly Entanglement

2472.539

Certainly.

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Deadly Entanglement

2474.861

He was home in Moses Lake area.

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Deadly Entanglement

2531.87

He was not being very honest with us. He was not being forthright about his relationship with his wife or his relationship with Paige.

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Deadly Entanglement

2626.474

It was deteriorating. They weren't the friends that they started out to be, and that there was becoming a wedge in Scott and Desiree's relationship, that Desiree was becoming more jealous of Paige and just did not want her involved at their home.

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Deadly Entanglement

2676.023

As far as we can tell, Desiree did not know that this affair was going on.

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Deadly Entanglement

27.307

That's right. Is he having an affair?

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Deadly Entanglement

2750.925

It gave us an indication that maybe there was a motive, that they wanted Desiree out of their relationship, so Scott and Paige to move on with their life.

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Deadly Entanglement

2773.166

Well, that gives us a new spark in our investigation. Now we have a name.

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Deadly Entanglement

2809.621

It said that the person that killed Desiree Sunford was a Marty Grismer.

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Deadly Entanglement

2817.123

No other details. It's just a name that had never come up in the investigation before.

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Deadly Entanglement

2825.225

Now we got somebody to go after.

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Deadly Entanglement

2836.332

So we had to do some tracking to find out who called that tip in.

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Deadly Entanglement

2847.936

It was Paige Blade.

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Deadly Entanglement

2857.828

It came out of the blue.

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Deadly Entanglement

2863.41

We brought H.G. Yakima. We sat down and, okay, you just can't drop this bomb on us. How do you know this? Tell us everything that you know about this Marty Grismer.

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Deadly Entanglement

2874.912

What does he do for a living?

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Deadly Entanglement

3002.861

with you and Scott?

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Deadly Entanglement

3032.538

No, I've never had a case like that before. It just didn't make sense.

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Deadly Entanglement

3071.778

That's correct.

Dateline NBC

Deadly Entanglement

3088.442

He made it look like a burglary. He took the board off the door and made it look like that's how the entry was.

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Deadly Entanglement

3103.45

Locked the door, put the key back where it was hiding, and this all happened around 3, 3.30 that morning.

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Deadly Entanglement

3152.466

Very emotional. She broke down and cried. She just couldn't believe that he would do such a thing.

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Deadly Entanglement

3161.462

We didn't have any reason not to believe her at this point. She certainly brought Marty to the front of the investigation, and we needed to do as much research in investigating how he would be involved.

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Deadly Entanglement

3229.66

We were wanting to believe her that this was the suspect that was involved. We were also wanting her to maybe get him to tell this story again.

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Deadly Entanglement

3266.192

We had a team of undercover officers. We were hoping to actually hear what Marty had to say about it. in his own words.

Dateline NBC

Deadly Entanglement

3300.783

But it did not... go as we planned. Marty seemed to be looking around like he was being set up. Kind of like he was onto you. Maybe, maybe he caught a glimpse of somebody or Paige was hinky about how she was trying to ask him.

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Deadly Entanglement

3342.544

We didn't get anything. He was acting suspiciously, but you can't take that into court.

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Deadly Entanglement

3352.268

It was. We thought he would tell her everything again, but that just didn't happen.

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Deadly Entanglement

3368.374

He wasn't going to get any type of relationship with Paige. So he married this other woman.

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Deadly Entanglement

3376.502

Yes. He was just moving on with his life.

Dateline NBC

Deadly Entanglement

3572.991

We just told him that we're investigating the death of Desiree Sunford. He said, no problem. He got a shirt, got dressed, came down to the office. He didn't lawyer up.

Dateline NBC

Deadly Entanglement

3676.385

Okay, Marty, if you didn't do it, and Paige or Scott did it, you're covering it for them.

Dateline NBC

Deadly Entanglement

3696.52

Correct. He didn't seem to be under too much stress at that point.

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Deadly Entanglement

3740.147

Yeah. Marty was kind of a gun nut. He liked to buy guns and buy gun parts.

Dateline NBC

Deadly Entanglement

3770.365

The lab came back that the barrel that we found, that barrel... was used to kill Desiree.

Dateline NBC

Deadly Entanglement

3779.733

That's correct. That is the smoking gun, so to speak.

Dateline NBC

Deadly Entanglement

3785.356

Exactly.

Dateline NBC

Deadly Entanglement

3792.199

There's a vein in the side of his head that just was really protruding. He was under a great deal of stress during this interview. And you could tell by his eyes that he was just trying to think before he spoke. He was in hyper stress.

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Deadly Entanglement

3869.023

His emotions were all over the page to a point where he was almost physically sick.

Dateline NBC

Deadly Entanglement

3875.927

Yeah, he said he was about ready to get sick.

Dateline NBC

Deadly Entanglement

3915.292

When did you come to your conclusion that The detectives weren't buying it. It was his gun barrel, and they'd found it right where he left it.

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Deadly Entanglement

3948.223

And that is what they did. He just couldn't believe that he was being charged with murder. But two other people remained on the detectives' radar, Scott and Paige.

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Deadly Entanglement

3970.876

It was just that thought in the back of our head that still she's got to be involved and Scott's got to be involved. We still have nothing to tie them other than this relationship that they were all involved in.

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Deadly Entanglement

40.533

That's right. A name that had never come up before. She's trying to set me up saying that killed someone.

Dateline NBC

Deadly Entanglement

4065.015

It was just that thought in the back of our head that still she's got to be involved, but we still have nothing to tie them other than this relationship that they were all involved in.

Dateline NBC

Deadly Entanglement

417.727

There were some red flags that just didn't seem to add up.

Dateline NBC

Deadly Entanglement

4604.755

They were cleaning out a dumpster and they found the jewelry box. They found the laptop and the iPad.

Dateline NBC

Deadly Entanglement

4643.069

That's huge. Marty must have done the first burglary, too. And he didn't get rid of anything. He was not very bright to keep all this stuff involved in a burglary and a homicide.

Dateline NBC

Deadly Entanglement

4662.804

Yeah, Marty's talking about the evidence that's against him.

Dateline NBC

Deadly Entanglement

4710.534

Yeah, he's trying to save his own skin at this point.

Dateline NBC

Deadly Entanglement

4740.41

Certainly. It could have easily been used. That's why we offered the plea.

Dateline NBC

Deadly Entanglement

947.336

It just was not the normal response for an individual thinking his wife was hurt or in danger.

Dateline NBC

Deadly Entanglement

966.202

Yes, he's well trained. He has served in combat. So he would be able to handle the situation in our opinion.

Dateline NBC

The Man of Many Faces

2061.985

Nick's name came across my desk, just a regular compliance check.

Dateline NBC

The Man of Many Faces

2075.037

Nick had a warrant for his arrest of technical violation on a domestic violence charge.

Dateline NBC

The Man of Many Faces

2083.019

We went to his last known residence to ensure that he lived at that address, and we were going to arrest him on his outstanding warrant.

Dateline NBC

The Man of Many Faces

2107.894

We put his picture and his warrant up on Rhode Island's Most Wanted.

Dateline NBC

The Man of Many Faces

2113.258

It didn't take too long. We got a phone call from Nick.

Dateline NBC

The Man of Many Faces

2140.503

Claimed he had moved out of the country and then proceeded to lecture me about how I didn't know the general laws in the state of Rhode Island and that by moving out of this country, he didn't have to notify of a change of address.

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The Man of Many Faces

2157.113

He was arrogant, egotistical.

Dateline NBC

The Man of Many Faces

2171.955

He had, in fact, left on an outbound flight out of an airport in New York to Ireland.

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The Man of Many Faces

2523.337

We made numerous attempts through Interpol, numerous countries for any proof of death. All were negative. Nothing came back.

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The Man of Many Faces

2605.345

Yes. It wasn't easy, but yes.

Dateline NBC

The Man of Many Faces

2623.899

It was not. We received numerous emails from the same email address that Nick had corresponded with me prior to his death from that same email address, but this time the signature was his widow.

Dateline NBC

The Man of Many Faces

2646.23

The way that he wrote, the way that he spoke, the use of big words was 100% Nick. The only thing that was different was instead of Nicholas Alliverdian, it was Luis.

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The Man of Many Faces

32.391

He does. He was a devil spawn. He really was. I learned that Nick was being sought by the FBI for fraud.

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Emotional testimony from a killer. A murder defendant's unusual defense. And travel scam safety tips.

1000.84

That's exactly right. It is a lot of, I don't recall. I'm not sure. She's like, hmm.

Dateline NBC

Emotional testimony from a killer. A murder defendant's unusual defense. And travel scam safety tips.

1017.186

You know, it does leave him frustrated. But at the same time, I think he's trying to use that to show the jury that this woman is really trying to just confuse them and trying to play with the facts.

Dateline NBC

Emotional testimony from a killer. A murder defendant's unusual defense. And travel scam safety tips.

709.137

Well, the judge is really exhorting Dana to kind of wrap it up. Because don't forget, the people on this jury, I mean, they've got their lives to get back to. And this is kind of dragging on.

Dateline NBC

Emotional testimony from a killer. A murder defendant's unusual defense. And travel scam safety tips.

735.495

Well, you know, she's got a lot of the lingo down. She certainly has read into rules of evidence and procedure. But then she repeats things. She gets emotional at odd moments that you wouldn't expect someone to get emotional.

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Emotional testimony from a killer. A murder defendant's unusual defense. And travel scam safety tips.

778.916

She interrupted her testimony at one point to say she was cold and she needed to get her jacket. So she... She basically sat the rest of the time on the stand in her winter coat, her puffer jacket. That I just never seen that before. I think she even uses a composite notebook that like the kind we had in school.

Dateline NBC

Emotional testimony from a killer. A murder defendant's unusual defense. And travel scam safety tips.

796.486

So there are some things that are kind of jarring and other things that go, OK, she's she's doing an OK job.

Dateline NBC

Emotional testimony from a killer. A murder defendant's unusual defense. And travel scam safety tips.

808.974

I think the clearest argument is that which can't be refuted. It's that they really do not have physical evidence tying her to these murders. They really don't even have any kind of direct evidence. No one says, hey, I saw her there. I saw her in Topeka, Kansas. on this date, at this time, around the time when these murders occurred.

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Emotional testimony from a killer. A murder defendant's unusual defense. And travel scam safety tips.

858.033

Yes. What was that? There was two bodies there that were connected to you that you were known to dislike one of them and hate the other one.

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Emotional testimony from a killer. A murder defendant's unusual defense. And travel scam safety tips.

904.497

Yeah, this is something fairly new that's come up, that she went to an AA meeting on the day that basically— The prosecution says she left Denver to go commit these murders. And she's saying, no, no, listen, this woman was in need of gas. I met her at an AA meeting. I didn't know who she was. She was in need. She didn't have any money. I went to go...

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Emotional testimony from a killer. A murder defendant's unusual defense. And travel scam safety tips.

929.344

goodness of my heart, to get her five-gallon cans of fuel. I even brought them back. And then I went inside to my AA meeting. So where is this woman then? Can she call her to the stand? Well, here's the thing. We're talking about Alcoholics Anonymous. Anonymous.

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Emotional testimony from a killer. A murder defendant's unusual defense. And travel scam safety tips.

959.695

Well, you'd have to ask the jury, but let me tell you, just sitting in that courtroom— It did sound damning. Everything he asked her, are you saying your daughter, are you saying your son, misspoke or lied when they said you did this back in the day? Yes, that's not true.

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Emotional testimony from a killer. A murder defendant's unusual defense. And travel scam safety tips.

987.017

Yes, that's incorrect. So what's coming across is that everyone else is wrong or lying about her.

Dateline NBC

Verdict in the roommate murder trial. Mom accused of murder by fire and van. And, actor Dennis Quaid.

267.382

Best of my recollection, my exact words were, I'm sorry to tell you that your roommate's deceased and she's been killed. I used the word she's been killed.

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Verdict in the roommate murder trial. Mom accused of murder by fire and van. And, actor Dennis Quaid.

288.965

It was unusual, and I remember thinking, what's going on here?

Dateline NBC

Verdict in the roommate murder trial. Mom accused of murder by fire and van. And, actor Dennis Quaid.

297.449

She just kind of fixated on that. All of a sudden, she was animated. And she was animated about this listening device, and I thought, this is what excites you here? This is what you're concerned about?