Deb Freeman
Appearances
Things Bakers Know: The King Arthur Baking Podcast
History in the Baking: Talking Biscuits with Deb Freeman
Thanks so much for having me on. Yeah.
Things Bakers Know: The King Arthur Baking Podcast
History in the Baking: Talking Biscuits with Deb Freeman
Yeah, absolutely. So I am a culinary historian. I focus mostly on Black foodways, but also I write a lot about the South and foods of the South, where they came from, why we eat what we eat. I would stress I'm not a baker. I'm a historian. But it's one of the things that I love to talk about because I'm from the South, so I'm mandated to talk about things like this.
Things Bakers Know: The King Arthur Baking Podcast
History in the Baking: Talking Biscuits with Deb Freeman
Yeah, so my grandmother, who was an amazing cook, basically introduced me to kind of all of my culinary loves, right? And so biscuits was something I would say that wasn't, you know, every day, but it was definitely probably every other week kind of concept. But she was making everything from scratch, which I cannot even fathom today. I'm doing that level of cooking that often.
Things Bakers Know: The King Arthur Baking Podcast
History in the Baking: Talking Biscuits with Deb Freeman
But basically, I remember, you know, getting them out of the pan, she would take a stick of butter and just melt them over the pan of biscuits and hand them to me and tell me to be careful because it was hot. So I have a very warm memory of that. I will also say that that wasn't something that I thought was unique. I thought everyone ate this. I thought this was a common thing.
Things Bakers Know: The King Arthur Baking Podcast
History in the Baking: Talking Biscuits with Deb Freeman
But obviously, as I got older and met people from different places, they were like, you're eating biscuits every what are you doing? Where's your bread? I'm like, no, biscuit is bread.
Things Bakers Know: The King Arthur Baking Podcast
History in the Baking: Talking Biscuits with Deb Freeman
When biscuits originally came to be, they were called hardtack. They weren't called biscuits. And they basically were things that sailors could eat. And they were supposedly they would last you a really long time. So flour, water and salt. That's all the ingredients. But they were baked cookies.
Things Bakers Know: The King Arthur Baking Podcast
History in the Baking: Talking Biscuits with Deb Freeman
four times and they were made about six months in advance so that they could be incredibly dry and they wouldn't spoil. So I can't even imagine what that tasted like. That sounds insane to me.
Things Bakers Know: The King Arthur Baking Podcast
History in the Baking: Talking Biscuits with Deb Freeman
That's what I'm thinking. And I just, I feel really bad for these soldiers. It just sounds insane.
Things Bakers Know: The King Arthur Baking Podcast
History in the Baking: Talking Biscuits with Deb Freeman
Yeah, I mean, I think it's a couple of different things. Initially, it's still pretty similar. Probably not as hard because you're not waiting for six months to eat it, but they're still not great, right? But in the South, once you have cows and you have pigs, so you've got buttermilk and you've got lard. And so you're adding that.
Things Bakers Know: The King Arthur Baking Podcast
History in the Baking: Talking Biscuits with Deb Freeman
We don't know exactly who started that, but once you start adding that, then you're getting a flavor profile, right?
Things Bakers Know: The King Arthur Baking Podcast
History in the Baking: Talking Biscuits with Deb Freeman
So that's kind of like the beginning turn of, oh, this might be something that tastes good.
Things Bakers Know: The King Arthur Baking Podcast
History in the Baking: Talking Biscuits with Deb Freeman
Yeah, so basically, early on, again, we're still talking when they're colonies. The beaten biscuit is flatter than we think of biscuits. They're a little more cracker-like. But what's interesting about this is they had a little bit of rise, but the only way to get this rise is to literally beat the dough, typically for about an hour. And that task was really given to enslaved women and
Things Bakers Know: The King Arthur Baking Podcast
History in the Baking: Talking Biscuits with Deb Freeman
And so it fell out of favor after the Civil War just because the labor it would take. But I know that it was very popular because there's a cookbook that comes out, Abby Fisher's cookbook, What Mrs. Fisher Knows About Old Southern Cooking. That's one of the first cookbooks that was written by a Black woman. And there's a recipe in that cookbook for these beaten biscuits. So this was pretty common.
Things Bakers Know: The King Arthur Baking Podcast
History in the Baking: Talking Biscuits with Deb Freeman
But after slavery ended, it really fell out of favor just because of the work and the time it took.
Things Bakers Know: The King Arthur Baking Podcast
History in the Baking: Talking Biscuits with Deb Freeman
Yeah, so a Pullman Porter were Black men who worked on Pullman trains. They would carry your luggage. They would shine your shoes. They would clean up the trains. And they also cooked for the dining cars. So that was a job that came about where Black men could work and make a living and also see the country to some extent. But that's a different podcast. But yeah, so that's what Pullman Porter is.
Things Bakers Know: The King Arthur Baking Podcast
History in the Baking: Talking Biscuits with Deb Freeman
And so they were creating these... incredible meals in these tiny, tiny kitchens. There's a story that Carl Smith, in the 1930s, he was a salesman. And he happened to be on one of the Pullman trains headed towards San Francisco. And so he wanted something to eat, but the kitchen was closed. And so he asked one of the Pullman porters to make something for him.
Things Bakers Know: The King Arthur Baking Podcast
History in the Baking: Talking Biscuits with Deb Freeman
And so he was pretty quickly brought out of biscuits. This guy is like, how did you do that so fast? Because Clearly in his mind, you've got to roll the dough, you've got to bake it, you've got to do all of this. And so when he asked that question, the Pullman Porter basically explained there was a pre-mixed bowl and it had lard, flour, salt, and baking powder in it.
Things Bakers Know: The King Arthur Baking Podcast
History in the Baking: Talking Biscuits with Deb Freeman
And he kept that on ice on the train. And so whenever someone asked for biscuits, he just added whatever the wet ingredients were. And so... Carl takes this idea and basically runs with it. And so his company created a version that could be mass produced. And so this is where we get the kind of ready to bake biscuit mix that you find on your store shelves.
Things Bakers Know: The King Arthur Baking Podcast
History in the Baking: Talking Biscuits with Deb Freeman
You know, even today, that's where that comes from.
Things Bakers Know: The King Arthur Baking Podcast
History in the Baking: Talking Biscuits with Deb Freeman
First of all, that's crazy, right?
Things Bakers Know: The King Arthur Baking Podcast
History in the Baking: Talking Biscuits with Deb Freeman
Yeah, they thought that cooler bread was better for digestion. I'm not sure where they got that theory from, but that was the thought. And so they thought that cold sliced bread, that's what good people, I'm using quote fingers for folks, good people ate that. And if you were eating hot bread in the South, I believe the word was barbarian. You were barbarian if you were eating that.
Things Bakers Know: The King Arthur Baking Podcast
History in the Baking: Talking Biscuits with Deb Freeman
Yeah, you can find me on the socials. You can find me on IG under Deb Freeman. And also you can find me on PBS. I am the exec producer and host of Finding Edna Lewis. And so you'll be able to watch that on PBS too.
Things Bakers Know: The King Arthur Baking Podcast
History in the Baking: Talking Biscuits with Deb Freeman
Thanks so much for having me. Now I'm hungry.