Courtney Harrell (Host)
Appearances
Search Engine
Search Engine x What We Spend
Maxine went to trucking school in Kansas, where she learned a bunch of driving techniques that would help once she was out there on her own. Like how to turn no matter how long the wheels span, how to keep control through high-grade hills, how to see the road in front of a long-nosed truck. And she learned a healthy respect for the massive machines, learned to stay vigilant all the time.
Search Engine
Search Engine x What We Spend
Du bringst Sachen an die Leute, die sie brauchen. Richtig.
Search Engine
Search Engine x What We Spend
I think a lot of us associate driving on big, long, open roads the way that you do with freedom. Does it feel that way to you? You feel that.
Search Engine
Search Engine x What We Spend
Ja, mein Name ist Courtney Harrell und ich bin Produzentin und ich hoste das Show, was wir sparen.
Search Engine
Search Engine x What We Spend
Maxine hatte schon den Tag vorher gekauft, den sie benötigt hatte. Also war ihr Total für den ersten Tag 0 Dollar.
Search Engine
Search Engine x What We Spend
Ich denke immer über Geld. Ich habe immer über Geld nachgedacht. Ich würde sagen, dass ich traditionell eine Menschen mit hohen Anstrengungen bin, wo ich angefangen habe, alle Ausgaben, die ich gemacht habe, als Teenager. Und was hat das ermutigt? dass ich nicht genug Geld haben werde, um Dinge zu machen.
Search Engine
Search Engine x What We Spend
Bist du in der Truppe gerade? Ich bin da. Ja, kannst du mir einfach das Innere des Trucks beschreiben? Was würde ich sehen, wenn ich da wäre?
Search Engine
Search Engine x What We Spend
As long as Maxine stays at her current job, she's always driving the same truck. So all these things in her kitchen, plus the tea and the extra mattress and an old picture of her son's basketball team, make the truck she spends so much time in feel more like her own.
Search Engine
Search Engine x What We Spend
Ich meine, manche von denen waren nur Essen. Ja. Aber es war auch... Ich habe eine Tanzklasse gemacht, als ich Teenager war. Ich bin kein großer Tänzer, aber ich erinnere mich wirklich darauf, wie viel die Tanzschuhe kosten werden. Und ich erinnere mich darauf, Songs auf iTunes für meinen iPod zu kaufen.
Search Engine
Search Engine x What We Spend
Deine 34-Stunden-Reset-Zeit ist die Anzahl der Zeit, die du auswählen musst, bevor du eine neue Arbeitswoche startest. Also kann ein Fahrer nur 70 Stunden in einem 8-Tage-Bereich arbeiten. Und dann müssen sie den Break nehmen.
Search Engine
Search Engine x What We Spend
Meist gospel, Rock'n'Roll, ein bisschen Land. Aber sie liebt auch Oper und sie liebt zu singen. Also lernt sie im Nachhinein, O mio papi no caro zu singen.
Search Engine
Search Engine x What We Spend
Ich fühle mich verlassen. Maxine kind of is abandoned. Ever since the 1980s, the trucking industry has become increasingly deregulated. And now there's no law that says trucking companies have to cover expenses like parking or supplies. So it's left up to truckers to figure out how to get through the job and then how to pay for life outside the job.
Search Engine
Search Engine x What We Spend
And for Maxine, she can no longer make both things work.
Search Engine
Search Engine x What We Spend
After months of working 14-hour days and waiting, waiting, waiting for her pay to improve so she could catch up on bills, Maxine was forced to make a really hard decision. She decided she had to give up her apartment. After day five, she headed back to North Carolina and started packing up.
Search Engine
Search Engine x What We Spend
Where did you go stay after you left your place? I live in the truck. You live in the truck full time.
Search Engine
Search Engine x What We Spend
Oh, the first time I was in an interview and somebody said, I got a check and I was like, how much was that check for? And then like shrunk back in my seat because it actually felt like so crazy to be like, no, specifically, like, tell me how much you're talking about for all of these things.
Search Engine
Search Engine x What We Spend
How do you all talk to each other about that? What do you say to each other?
Search Engine
Search Engine x What We Spend
If the job is paying so far below what you need to meet your basic needs, what is keeping you in this job?
Search Engine
Search Engine x What We Spend
Are there other jobs besides trucking that you could imagine having more stability in?
Search Engine
Search Engine x What We Spend
We talked before about the freedom you would feel on the road.
Search Engine
Search Engine x What We Spend
When you're talking about your long-term future that you are imagining for yourself, your dream of this land, does that include trucking? Or is your long-term dream leaving trucking behind?
Search Engine
Search Engine x What We Spend
In the weeks after recording the episode, Maxine was still living in her truck and saving money towards the future. But she did get one piece of good news. Her company is getting her a newer truck. Thank you to Alex Leslie at the American Transportation Research Institute and Steve Vasselli. They both helped us understand the trucking industry for this episode.
Search Engine
Search Engine x What We Spend
If you want to know more, check out Steve's book, The Big Rig, Trucking and the Decline of the American Dream. What we spend is an Odyssey original podcast. It's written and hosted by me, Courtney Harrell. Our producers are Margot Gray and Kristen Torres. Our editor is Jonathan Menjivar. Our executive producers are Maddy Sprung-Kaiser and Leah Reese Dennis.
Search Engine
Search Engine x What We Spend
Theme song and original music by Matt McGinley. Additional music from APM Music. Mixing by Pedro Alvira. Special thanks to Melissa Akiko Slaughter, Joel Lovell, Jenna Weiss-Berman, J.D. Crowley, Maura Curran, Josefina Francis, Kurt Courtney, Hilary Schuff, Sean Cherry, Laura Berman, and Hilary Van Ornum. If you want to be on What We Spend, we'd love to hear from you.
Search Engine
Search Engine x What We Spend
Das ist Maxine. Sie ist ein 60-jähriger Long-Haul-Truckfahrer aus North Carolina. Wie groß ist der Truck? Oh, das ist ein 53-Fuß-Trailer. Oh, das ist wirklich groß, oder?
Search Engine
Search Engine x What We Spend
Maxine hat Zeit für ein paar andere Arbeiten gebraucht, aber sie ist seit 2004 auf und an für verschiedene Firmen gefahren. Sie hat Routen über das Land gefahren, aber jetzt arbeitet sie auf einer so genannten Dedicated Route, was bedeutet, dass sie immer Homegoods für eine bestimmte Firma durch den gleichen Streit des Landes übernimmt.
Search Engine
Search Engine x What We Spend
Wir haben auf dem Telefon gesprochen, bevor sie aus North Carolina nach Süd-Carolina fährt und dann nach Louisiana. Maxine ist eine der ca. 3,5 Millionen Truckerinnen in den USA, die die restlichen Leben möglich machen. Sie ist eine unmittelbare Teil der amerikanischen Leben. Und wie viele Truckerinnen, macht sie nicht genug, um zu kommen. Maxine arbeitet hart.
Search Engine
Search Engine x What We Spend
Woche nach Woche, sie kauft kaum was und trotzdem, sie kann nicht immer ihre Karten bezahlen. Und sie ist nicht allein. Diese Woche folgen wir Maxine durch eine Woche ihres Lebens auf der Straße und hören über die Vorteile und den Preis des Lebens als Trucker. Ich bin Courtney Harrell und das ist, was wir sparen. Das erste, was man über Trucking wissen muss, ist, dass der Preis verwirklichend ist.
Search Engine
Search Engine x What We Spend
So hourly pay is more likely for local routes with frequent stops in a smaller area. But most long-haul truckers like Maxine are paid by the mile, not hours worked. Wie viel du pro Meile verdienst, ist eine Bezahlung von einigen Faktoren. Was du fährst, wie weit du fährst, für wen du fährst und wie viele Jahre du das gemacht hast.
Search Engine
Search Engine x What We Spend
Aber egal wie viel du verdienst, verdienst du das nur, wenn du weißt, dass du auf der Straße mit einem Truck voller Güter wohnst.
Search Engine
Search Engine x What We Spend
Rates and loads. Basically, Maxine told me that these days there's less merchandise for her to carry and she's getting paid less to carry it. That is not just a Maxine problem. The freight market has been in a recession the last few years because when manufacturing, construction and retail markets slow down, there's just less goods to carry, fewer loads.
Search Engine
Search Engine x What We Spend
And that means there's less work available, which leads to lower rates.
Search Engine
Search Engine x What We Spend
Laut den neuesten Daten vom US-Büro für Arbeitsstatistiken, nimmt der übrige Fahrer um 57.000 Euro pro Jahr nach Hause. Um 10.000 Euro mehr als Maxine im letzten Jahr. Aber erinnere dich, sie werden pro Meile bezahlt. Manchmal enden Fahrer wie Maxine auf der Straße so lange, bis die Löhne durchkommen, dass, wenn sie pro Monat bezahlt würden, sie weniger als die Minimumwage machen würden.
Search Engine
Search Engine x What We Spend
What do you do when you don't have a paycheck come through or when you get a paycheck that's like, I owe money?
Search Engine
Search Engine x What We Spend
Maxine gibt Geld einer Finanzfirma, weil sie einen Debtkonsolidierungslohn genommen hat, um eine Menge ihrer Schulden mit einer niedrigeren Interessensrate zu reduzieren.
Search Engine
Search Engine x What We Spend
Ist das Geld aus regelmäßigen Lebensausgaben oder ist es ein größerer Ausgabe?
Search Engine
Search Engine x What We Spend
Maxine hat wirklich nicht so viele regelmäßige Kosten. Seine Gesundheitsinsurance kommt aus ihrem Geld, und dann spart sie ca. 120 Euro pro Monat an Utilität, 80 Euro pro Monat auf ihrem Telefon, 645 Euro pro Monat auf ihr Auto und Insurance und ca. 80 Euro pro Monat auf Gas. Der größte Kosten, den sie verursacht, ist ihr Renten, das sind 1400 Euro pro Monat für ihr Ein-Bedroom in North Carolina.
Search Engine
Search Engine x What We Spend
Aber nach all dem muss sie oft ihre Geräte auf ihre Kreditkarte legen.
Search Engine
Search Engine x What We Spend
Supplies like Maxine's paper towels aren't typically covered by trucking companies. Some companies do offer per diems to help with those kinds of travel costs, but there's no law requiring it, so more than half of trucking companies just don't. Despite that, despite the low pay and the loads and the makeshift bathroom, Maxine loves driving her truck. How did you get into it initially?
Search Engine
Search Engine x What We Spend
So you had your parents saying you were a good driver. But what else was it about trucking that made you be like, oh, as soon as I get the chance to do that, that's what I'm going to do?
The Commercial Break
TCB Introduces: What We Spend
You know how you always want to know about everyone else's money? You do, right? Like, you'll see someone buying something you want or taking some amazing vacation and you think, how can they afford that? Or you meet your friend's new girlfriend and she has some very impressive job and you think, how much money does she make?
The Commercial Break
TCB Introduces: What We Spend
I think when it comes to money, even if you don't want to admit it, we're all a little nosy. But I don't know, I actually think that's good. I think we should be talking about money more. And all the ways, big and small, that it impacts our lives. On this show, we are actually going to do that. We are going to go somewhere that we almost never get to go.
The Commercial Break
TCB Introduces: What We Spend
Deep into the heart of someone else's finances. Hier ist, wie das funktionieren wird. Jede Woche werde ich euch eine neue Person aus einem anderen Land vorstellen. Sie wird uns alles über ihre Finanzen erzählen. Wie viel sie verdienen, wie viel sie machen wollen, worüber sie sich interessieren, oder ob sie sich überhaupt nicht interessieren.
The Commercial Break
TCB Introduces: What We Spend
Und dann, für eine Woche, werden wir sie durch ihre tägliche Routine folgen. Jeden Tag werden sie einen Audio-Dialog mit all den schmutzigen Details, wie sie ihr Geld verdienen. Ich meine, die Kaffee, die Gemüse, der Rentner, der Fahrer, der plötzlich alles aufhört. Und danach sprechen wir über das, was die Woche für sie gebracht hat. Was es für sie gemacht hat.
The Commercial Break
TCB Introduces: What We Spend
Weil was auch immer du kaufst oder nicht kaufst oder spart oder spart, am Ende des Tages ist Geld immer mehr als dein Balance. Ich bin Courtney Harrell und das ist, was wir sparen.
The Commercial Break
TCB Introduces: What We Spend
Und auch, wie viele von ihrer Generation, will sie ein Haus kaufen und ein Baby haben. Und sie versucht herauszufinden, ob es möglich ist, all diese Arbeit zu machen. Kelly verabredete ihren Mann vor etwa einem Jahr. Und acht Monate später sind die beiden von Tennessee nach Salt Lake City, Utah geflogen. Ben ist ein Ingenieur für eine Softwarefirma.
The Commercial Break
TCB Introduces: What We Spend
Kelly ist die Direktorin von Klienten-Erfahrung in einem Medizinspa. Und sie ist auch ein Online-Mental-Wellness-Coach.
The Commercial Break
TCB Introduces: What We Spend
Kelly wird täglich bezahlt. Aber sie macht ungefähr 50k pro Jahr. Und Ben macht ungefähr 78k pro Jahr. That's before taxes and health insurance. Together, that puts them just under the average income for married couple families in Salt Lake City. How would you describe your relationship with money?
The Commercial Break
TCB Introduces: What We Spend
Was machst du täglich, um deine Kosten zu gestalten?
The Commercial Break
TCB Introduces: What We Spend
Okay, yeah. So walk me through your spreadsheet. So I would love to hear what all of your regular expenses are and like what you kind of typically pay in each category.
The Commercial Break
TCB Introduces: What We Spend
Es ist ein Konvertierer. Phone Payment 75, Pet Insurance 76 and Physical Therapy for 250. It helps with Kelly's chronic back pain and osteoarthritis.
The Commercial Break
TCB Introduces: What We Spend
Kelly's degree cost about 40 grand a year. And after undergrad, Kelly went on to grad school at the same university. She has a master's in mental health counseling. But as Kelly sees it now, the math doesn't make much sense. I want to ask you something about that. And I mean no judgment with this. Okay. How did you think you were going to pay off that amount of tuition?
The Commercial Break
TCB Introduces: What We Spend
Or were you at the time like, I know I can't pay this off. How did you think about it then?
The Commercial Break
TCB Introduces: What We Spend
So that's Kelly. And this week, instead of just tracking it in her spreadsheet, she's gonna tell us about every dollar she spends and every feeling that comes with it. How are you feeling about tracking your finances for a week?
The Commercial Break
TCB Introduces: What We Spend
Yeah, me too. I will check in with you on the other side of your week. Okay. Okay.
What We Spend
Trying, Really Trying, to Enjoy Spending
With her credit card payment, Helena's total spending for day two was $2,514. And the fact that she felt comfortable with that is a huge shift for her. It's a kind of comfort she couldn't imagine feeling again when she first left home for college.
What We Spend
Trying, Really Trying, to Enjoy Spending
Back then, she was anxious about money for the first time, but she didn't fully understand her new financial position until she got to school and saw how other people around her were spending.
What We Spend
Trying, Really Trying, to Enjoy Spending
But underneath that, it's also a way for her to put into practice a new relationship with her money. When Helena was a teenager, her family had an unexpected change in their finances. The change was big and dramatic, and it had a tangible impact on what Helena could do with her life.
What We Spend
Trying, Really Trying, to Enjoy Spending
Helena found herself having to turn down a lot of invitations to dinners at expensive New York restaurants and weekend trips to the Hamptons. And then one night, she was supposed to meet her friends for a big end-of-year celebratory dinner, but she was running late. So she would have to take a cab to get there on time.
What We Spend
Trying, Really Trying, to Enjoy Spending
And she realized she didn't have enough money in her account to pay for the ride. So she had a choice. Don't go again. Or tell her friend that she needed help. She called her friend.
What We Spend
Trying, Really Trying, to Enjoy Spending
Even after confiding in her friend, Helena got more and more anxious about balancing what she could afford and living the life that she wanted.
What We Spend
Trying, Really Trying, to Enjoy Spending
Helena started to feel like maybe her mom had a point, and she gradually changed her social circle. She spent less and less time with the friends going on extravagant outings, and more time with friends she could afford to keep up with. And she started thinking about her future differently, too.
What We Spend
Trying, Really Trying, to Enjoy Spending
Before college, she'd been interested in being a public defender, or exploring creative opportunities, maybe in the fashion industry. But she knew neither of those paths guaranteed stability.
What We Spend
Trying, Really Trying, to Enjoy Spending
By giving up the dream of the perfect job, Helena achieved another dream, financial independence.
What We Spend
Trying, Really Trying, to Enjoy Spending
It also left her with an anxiety around money that she still carries, even now after years of trying to be responsible and working her way through her first jobs after college. But now she's trying to shake that off, trying to just enjoy the money she's got. And this week, we'll follow along and see if that's possible. I'm Courtney Harrell, and this is what we spend.
What We Spend
Trying, Really Trying, to Enjoy Spending
Helena and her boyfriend Ollie have been together for three years, and when they started dating, Helena could immediately tell that he felt much more financially free.
What We Spend
Trying, Really Trying, to Enjoy Spending
What do you think happened? Like, what happened for you at the point between him saying you're never going to be able to enjoy your life if you don't work on this and you being able to be on a trip and spend money and be like, oh, I'm enjoying this. Like, what do you think happened?
What We Spend
Trying, Really Trying, to Enjoy Spending
Helena knew a lot of her friends' parents had taught them how to open an investment account somewhere like Merrill Lynch. And she decided to pursue that herself. So she set up an appointment with an advisor and then opened an account where she started putting a portion of every paycheck.
What We Spend
Trying, Really Trying, to Enjoy Spending
On day five, Helena also filled up her tank for $70, bringing her total for the day to $106. On day six, Helena worked from home, then ran by the grocery store to grab a couple things for a dinner party at a friend's house.
What We Spend
Trying, Really Trying, to Enjoy Spending
On day six, Helena also made a $500 donation to a retirement fund for an acquaintance, bringing her total for the day to $676.92.
What We Spend
Trying, Really Trying, to Enjoy Spending
Helena's total for the week was $3,769.69. What We Spend is an Odyssey original podcast. It's written and hosted by me, Courtney Harrell. Our producers are Marco Gray and Kristen Torres. Our editor is Jonathan Menjivar. Our executive producers are Maris Brunkheiser and Leah Reese Dennis. Theme song and original music by Matt McGinley. Additional music from APN Music. Mixing by Pedro Alvira.
What We Spend
Trying, Really Trying, to Enjoy Spending
Special thanks to Melissa Akiko Slaughter, Joel Lovell, Jenna Weiss-Berman, J.D. Crowley, Maura Curran, Josephina Francis, Kurt Courtney, Hilary Sheff, Sean Cherry, Laura Berman, and Hilary Van Ornam. If you want to be on What We Spend, we'd love to hear from you. Write us at whatwespendpodcast at gmail.com.
What We Spend
Trying, Really Trying, to Enjoy Spending
What is the financial spectrum of your friends now?
What We Spend
Trying, Really Trying, to Enjoy Spending
Let's get into Helena's numbers. Like she said, Helena makes $173,000 a year before taxes, health insurance, and bonuses. She also splits household bills, rent and utilities, and usually groceries, with her boyfriend. He's in tech sales and, with commission at the end of the year, usually makes a little over $200,000 before taxes. And their expenses?
What We Spend
Trying, Really Trying, to Enjoy Spending
They spent a total of $1,800 on their two weeks of housing in LA. But the rest of their time in California, they stayed with family for free. Back in New York, they'd be paying $1,500 a month for a room in a larger apartment that they share with roommates. There, utilities run roughly $100 to $200 a month, depending on the season.
What We Spend
Trying, Really Trying, to Enjoy Spending
In New York, she takes the subway for about $80 a month. But while she's been in California, she's been using her dad's car for free and spending less than $100 on gas.
What We Spend
Trying, Really Trying, to Enjoy Spending
Wi-Fi at home is $40 a month. Streaming services are $40 a month too. Digital storage is $4.99 a month. And she pays for Amazon Prime in one yearly $60 payment.
What We Spend
Trying, Really Trying, to Enjoy Spending
Her health, dental, and vision insurance come out of her paycheck for a total of $185 a month. Then she spends $50 a month on medication and has a $30 copay to see a psychiatrist once a month. She also has a recurring donation of $100 a month to the Brooklyn Bail Fund.
What We Spend
Trying, Really Trying, to Enjoy Spending
Oh God. First of all, you said it was a substantial inheritance. What does that mean? I think it was like $20 million. Helena's parents are from Iraq, and Helena's grandpa on her mom's side was on the board of a big oil company there. It was a great job, but Helena's grandpa was afraid of political instability in his country.
What We Spend
Trying, Really Trying, to Enjoy Spending
Helena says once he got to England, her grandpa started over. He took the cash he brought and bought an apartment that he started renting out in London. Then he reinvested the money he made from that property into more property until he was running a few bed and breakfasts.
What We Spend
Trying, Really Trying, to Enjoy Spending
Over time, he became more and more successful. Years later, when he passed away from a heart attack, he left the money he'd made throughout his life to his wife.
What We Spend
Trying, Really Trying, to Enjoy Spending
I mean, literally, how did they spend all that money? Do you know?
What We Spend
Trying, Really Trying, to Enjoy Spending
Before that point, Helena didn't really talk about money with her parents, including where their money came from. Her mom had been an interior designer, but she stopped working when Helena was born. Helena's dad did well as a software engineer, and they owned a few properties that brought in passive income. So Helena had always assumed that their money just came from that.
What We Spend
Trying, Really Trying, to Enjoy Spending
She didn't understand that her parents were spending with the knowledge that they had a huge future safety net and didn't need to save for things like retirement or college. She actually didn't even know about the inheritance until her mom told her it was gone. Tell me about when your parents told you that that money was gone.
What We Spend
Trying, Really Trying, to Enjoy Spending
Helena had just accepted an early decision offer to Columbia, her dream school. Her parents told her they were still going to do everything they could to pay for her tuition, but everything had to change. No more eating out, no more travel, no more big gifts.
What We Spend
Trying, Really Trying, to Enjoy Spending
Her parents refinanced their house to bring down the mortgage, sold a property, and started looking for places to cut spending or make more money anywhere they could.
What We Spend
Trying, Really Trying, to Enjoy Spending
After the break, we'll hear how Helena's relationship with money has changed as we dive into her week.
What We Spend
Trying, Really Trying, to Enjoy Spending
ClassPass is a subscription service that lets you exchange credits for different kinds of exercise classes. So Helena is basically getting a free gym membership from her work.
What We Spend
Trying, Really Trying, to Enjoy Spending
Helena and her boyfriend Ollie have been traveling for the last eight months, with a few stopovers back home in New York. They spent last summer in Europe, traveled around California, and then landed in LA for the week of her audio diaries. For Helena, the travel is partly about taking advantage of her and her boyfriend's remote jobs.
What We Spend
America's Working Homeless
Last week on What We Spend, we met Maxine. She's a long-haul truck driver in North Carolina who was working all the time, cutting corners where she could, and finding that the bills still just kept adding up. If you haven't listened to that episode, pause now, go listen to it, and then come back.
What We Spend
America's Working Homeless
We'll talk about a couple of them, but for now, the most important thing to know is that everyone Brian followed had full-time jobs, sometimes more than one, and all of them still couldn't afford housing. Like Maxine, they are the working homeless, people who are trapped in a cycle of housing struggles that doesn't fit the picture of homelessness that comes to mind for most of us.
What We Spend
America's Working Homeless
One place poor and working class people often turn is low income housing, including public housing. But there's a lot of problems with that, too, which you can see in the story of another person in Brian's book, a woman named Britt, who grew up in public housing in Atlanta.
What We Spend
America's Working Homeless
Only one in four who qualify for the assistance actually get it because the government programs are so underfunded that there's just not enough money to cover everyone who should be able to get help.
What We Spend
America's Working Homeless
Brian says they're part of a whole world of homelessness that most of us aren't seeing.
What We Spend
America's Working Homeless
Yeah, yeah. Britt, the woman in Brian's book, actually wins that lottery. Miraculously, her name is picked. But that doesn't get her an apartment or even the rental voucher. It gets her on a waiting list to get the voucher. And she ends up waiting two years. But then, okay, so she finally gets her voucher. Now she has to find a landlord that will accept it. And she can't.
What We Spend
America's Working Homeless
Not a single landlord in her price range will take it. So her voucher expires. And she's still left without a home.
What We Spend
America's Working Homeless
And why is that happening? Why are landlords saying, no, I'm not going to take that voucher?
What We Spend
America's Working Homeless
This partly goes back to the stigma we talked about before. Some landlords assume that anyone relying on a voucher to pay part of their rent is not going to be responsible enough to pay for the rest of it. But also, there's another issue. There's just not enough housing to go around.
What We Spend
America's Working Homeless
And that limited inventory means that landlords can just charge more and more, making the gap between what people make and what they need to make to pay rent bigger and bigger.
What We Spend
America's Working Homeless
Let's go back to Celeste. She's the woman in Brian's book whose house burned down. She is one of the millions looking for housing she can afford with really low wages. But for Celeste, and a lot of people, that's not the only complicating factor.
What We Spend
America's Working Homeless
We've been talking mostly about the group of people who already do not have secure housing to go to. And then there's this whole other group of people that is a huge part of the country who have housing but are on edge, where they're not making enough to be able to know that they're going to be able to comfortably afford the place that they're living.
What We Spend
America's Working Homeless
They're uncertain how long they are going to have the stability that they have right now. Can you talk about that group of people at all?
What We Spend
America's Working Homeless
If you did listen, then you know that while she was recording, Maxine was forced to make the really hard decision to give up her apartment, because she just isn't making enough money to pay her rent. We wanted to know more about how this could be happening to Maxine and also to other people around the country.
What We Spend
America's Working Homeless
Social housing is government-owned housing that's built to be high quality and stay affordable. But unlike public housing in the U.S., it's open to people across all income levels. And it's a model that's worked really well in other countries.
What We Spend
America's Working Homeless
Yeah. I mean, I think in our last episode, we talked to somebody who I think we would say is a member of the hidden homeless that you're talking about. Her name was Maxine. She is a full-time long-haul truck driver. And She got to the point in her life where she could no longer afford to pay for her apartment and had to start living in her truck full time.
What We Spend
America's Working Homeless
Where did Brit and Celeste end up in the period of time that you were following them?
What We Spend
America's Working Homeless
Brian, thank you so much for taking the time to talk about your book and your very important reporting.
What We Spend
America's Working Homeless
Brian's book is There Is No Place For Us. What we spend is an Odyssey original podcast. It's written and hosted by me, Courtney Harrell. Our producers are Margo Gray and Kristen Torres. Our editor is Jonathan Menjivar. Our executive producers are Maris Brunkheiser and Leah Reese Dennis. Theme song and original music by Matt McGinley. Additional music from APM Music. Mixing by Pedro Alvira.
What We Spend
America's Working Homeless
And I wondered about what you saw in your reporting. If the people who can no longer afford housing are not on the street, where else are they turning to whenever they don't have someplace to go?
What We Spend
America's Working Homeless
How could someone be working full-time, providing an essential service that the rest of us rely on and still not make enough to meet her basic needs? And how many other Maxines are out there? This week, instead of diving into another person's diaries, we're going to try and get some answers to those questions.
What We Spend
America's Working Homeless
Let's zoom in on one of those 4 million Americans. Brian followed a woman named Celeste. Celeste is a single mom of three kids, and one day she got a call that her house was on fire. It turned out that an angry ex-boyfriend had intentionally burned it down, so now she needed to find a new apartment.
What We Spend
America's Working Homeless
She searched and searched for something in her budget, sleeping on the floor of friend's house after friend's house while she did. And then she finally found an apartment she could afford.
What We Spend
America's Working Homeless
But her application was rejected because it turned out that the private equity firm that owned her last apartment had evicted her, without her even knowing it, when she didn't pay rent on her burned-down apartment. She said it was like having a Scarlet E that made it that much more difficult to find a place she could afford.
What We Spend
America's Working Homeless
We've got a guest who's been looking into this exact subject for years, and he estimates that there are millions of people across the country who can't afford housing. His reporting helps answer so many of the questions Maxine's story brought up. Why is rent so expensive? Why don't wages seem to be increasing with rent? And what in the world can we do about it?
What We Spend
America's Working Homeless
I mean, so the system is fit into a very old definition of homelessness so that we can tackle this in the very few ways that we know how or you're on your own.
What We Spend
America's Working Homeless
I'm Courtney Harrell, and this is what we spend. This week, we're going to talk about this problem with housing with journalist Brian Goldstone. He's the author of There Is No Place For Us, a new book that tries to understand our housing crisis by following five families in Atlanta.
What We Spend
America's Working Homeless
Well, and you're saying, too, we have these ideas about homelessness as a culture. And is that why when you were talking about Celeste being hesitant to take on this homelessness label, like, do you think is that what that's about, that people don't want to be seen as I am broken people?
What We Spend
America's Working Homeless
After the break, we'll talk about how we got here and why, housed or unhoused, everyone is feeling the strain.
What We Spend
America's Working Homeless
So obviously, the question of why we have so many people struggling to afford housing is a big one. But Brian says it really boils down to three things, decreasing tenant protections, low wages and skyrocketing rents.
What We Spend
Retired and On Edge
Bevor sie verabschiedet wurde, war Cherry Sozialarbeiterin für das Büro von Kindern und Familien für 38 Jahre. Sie liebte ihren Job, aber sie hatte auch Träume eines neuen Lebens in der Verabschiedung, wo sie mehr Zeit mit ihren Freunden sparen konnte und ihren eigenen Zeitplan setzte. In den USA ist die average retirement age 62. So at 57, Cherry is a bit ahead of the curve.
What We Spend
Retired and On Edge
Was fällt in die Kategorie, die du brauchst und was fällt in die Kategorie, die du willst?
What We Spend
Retired and On Edge
On day two, Cherry took her mom to see a doctor. Her mom had been having trouble moving her neck and they didn't know why until this appointment.
What We Spend
Retired and On Edge
But retirement hasn't turned out the way she expected. She's needed to give a lot of her time to caregiving for her mom. And even though she has a pension, she's come to realize that she wasn't financially ready. This week we'll follow Cherry as she figures out what it's going to take to make retirement work for her. I'm Courtney Harrell and this is what we spend.
What We Spend
Retired and On Edge
As a social worker, Cherry's days were packed. She had constant appointments to find and then interview anyone involved in an investigation. And then she'd come home and type up those notes and finish paperwork.
What We Spend
Retired and On Edge
Day 3's expenses were just those two phone bills, bringing the total for the day to $208. Day 4. Thursday, 8.31 a.m.
What We Spend
Retired and On Edge
Cherrys Total nach dem Paying-Bills am 4. Mai war 159 Dollar. Aber sie weiß, dass sie morgen mehr spenden wird, wenn sie ihre Freunde zurückzahlt.
What We Spend
Retired and On Edge
Generally speaking, how would you describe your relationship with money?
What We Spend
Retired and On Edge
Total for Day 5, $2,532 with an extra income of $600. Day 6. So despite being sick, I pulled it together enough yesterday to go out for brunch to celebrate a friend's birthday. We had the greatest time and it was 16 of us.
What We Spend
Retired and On Edge
Cherry spricht von der Arbeit als Drittpartei-Observatorin für das Staat. Also zum Beispiel, wenn die Eltern in einer Verwaltungsbattel oder von einem Art von Verbrechen verhaftet wurden, wäre Cherry der Supervisorin, der alles dafür hilft, dass alles für das Kind sicher ist. Wenn sie das gemacht hätte, würde sie ihre eigenen Raten setzen.
What We Spend
Retired and On Edge
Ist das so, wie du deine Beziehung vor der Verabschiedung beschreiben würdest?
What We Spend
Retired and On Edge
You said something about feeling like an old lady. And I wondered if it changed your relationship with aging.
What We Spend
Retired and On Edge
Cherry's total spending for the week was $4,097.02. You ended your week deciding that you were going to start working again. Yes. How has deciding to do that changed your anxiety level?
What We Spend
Retired and On Edge
Before she retired, Cherry was making about $110,000 a year, which is on the upper end of what social workers usually make. Cherry often took on additional gigs with the Commonwealth, like working crisis hotlines. But she also just worked her way up the ladder over her 38 years on the job, adding to her salary and her pension. It's like a relatively early retirement, I think, like in your 50s.
What We Spend
Retired and On Edge
What we spend is an Odyssey original podcast. It's written and hosted by me, Courtney Harrell. Our producers are Margo Gray and Kristen Torres. Our editor is Jonathan Menjivar. Our executive producers are Maris Brunkheiser and Leah Reese Dennis. Theme song and original music by Matt McGinley. Additional music from APM Music. Mixing by Pedro Alvira.
What We Spend
Retired and On Edge
Special thanks to Melissa Akiko-Slaughter, Joel Lovell, Jenna Weiss-Berman, J.D. Crowley, Maura Curran, Josefina Francis, Kurt Courtney, Hilary Scheff, Sean Cherry, Laura Berman, and Hilary Van Ornum. If you want to be on What We Spend, we'd love to hear from you. Write us at whatwespendpodcast at gmail.com.
What We Spend
Retired and On Edge
When did you become eligible to retire? So was that kind of earliest retirement part of the plan?
What We Spend
Retired and On Edge
Ein Teil ihres Drehens für den Retirement ist es, mehr mit diesem Business zu tun.
What We Spend
Retired and On Edge
Nachdem sie ihre Mutter mit einer ganzen Reihe von Krankheitsproblemen seit mehreren Jahren gesehen hat, hat Cherry gelernt, dass ihre Mutter einen Kidney-Fall hatte, der sofort Aufmerksamkeit benötigte. Das bedeutet, dass jemand zur Verfügung stehen sollte, um sie zu kümmern und sie zu Besuchen zu nehmen.
What We Spend
Retired and On Edge
Außerdem gab es einige andere Dinge über Cheries Job, die Cherry fühlten, als wäre es der richtige Zeitpunkt, um zu gehen. Also hat sie sich entschieden, früher zu verabschieden, als sie geplant hatte.
What We Spend
Retired and On Edge
Cherry war bereits nervös, als es noch schwieriger wurde. Seine Partnerin wurde in einem Auto-Anschlag verletzt und wurde schließlich auch verletzt, als das zu einer Behinderung führte. Wusste du, dass er sich verletzen wird, als du dich entschieden hast, sich zu verletzen?
What We Spend
Retired and On Edge
Let's get into Cherry's numbers. Her partner's income from Social Security is about $980 a month. So between the two of them, they bring in about $5,900 a month. What is your housing cost? $1,800.
What We Spend
Retired and On Edge
Kabel und Wifi 159 pro Monat. Cherrys Telefon ist 111 pro Monat. Und ihre Partnerin ist 125. Und manchmal bezahle ich meinen Kindern, was 88 Dollar ist, wenn ich kann, wenn ich ein bisschen extra habe.
What We Spend
Retired and On Edge
Sherry hatte vor einiger Zeit ein Problem mit dem Fahrzeug, also nutzt sie ein Freundesfahrzeug, bis sie ein neues fährt. Also nur Gas-Ausgaben für jetzt, das sind etwa 60 Dollar pro Monat. Sie hat auch keine Sicherheitskosten für den Moment, weil ihr Gesundheitsinsurance letztendlich gecancelt wurde. Sobald sie sich wieder aufräumen kann, werden das 210 Dollar pro Monat sein.
What We Spend
Retired and On Edge
In September of 2024. Oh, you didn't worry about it until you retired?
What We Spend
Retired and On Edge
How are you dealing with worrying for the first time? That's a totally new experience for you.
What We Spend
Paid by the Mile
We talked on the phone before she headed out from North Carolina for her next drive to South Carolina and then on to Louisiana. Maxine is one of about three and a half million truckers in the U.S. who literally make the rest of our lives possible. She is an indispensable part of American life. And like a lot of truckers, she is not making enough to get by. Maxine works hard.
What We Spend
Paid by the Mile
Maxine had already bought the food she needed the day before, so her total for day one was zero dollars.
What We Spend
Paid by the Mile
Are you in the truck right now? I am. Yeah, will you just kind of describe the inside of it to me? Like, what would I see if I was in there?
What We Spend
Paid by the Mile
As long as Maxine stays at her current job, she's always driving the same truck. So all these things in her kitchen, plus the tea and the extra mattress and an old picture of her son's basketball team, make the truck she spends so much time in feel more like her own.
What We Spend
Paid by the Mile
Week after week, she barely buys anything. And still, she can't always pay her bills. And she is not alone. This week, we're going to follow Maxine through a week of her life on the road and hear the benefits and the price of life as a trucker. I'm Courtney Harrell, and this is what we spend. The first thing to know about trucking is that the pay is confusing.
What We Spend
Paid by the Mile
Your 34-hour reset is the amount of time you're required to take off before starting a new work week. So a driver is only allowed to work 70 hours in an eight-day period, and then they have to take that break.
What We Spend
Paid by the Mile
Maxine loves to listen to music while she drives. Mostly gospel, rock and roll, a little country. But she also loves opera, and she loves to sing. So in her downtime, she's learning to sing O Mio Papi No Caro.
What We Spend
Paid by the Mile
Can I ask, like, this part of your job that's like, OK, I don't get paid if all of these things happen with my truck or with the load. How does that make you feel?
What We Spend
Paid by the Mile
Companies typically choose how to pay based on the kind of route someone is driving. So hourly pay is more likely for local routes with frequent stops in a smaller area. But most long-haul truckers like Maxine are paid by the mile, not hours worked. How much you earn per mile is a calculation of a bunch of factors.
What We Spend
Paid by the Mile
Maxine kind of is abandoned. Ever since the 1980s, the trucking industry has become increasingly deregulated. And now there's no law that says trucking companies have to cover expenses like parking or supplies. So it's left up to truckers to figure out how to get through the job and then how to pay for life outside the job. And for Maxine, she can no longer make both things work.
What We Spend
Paid by the Mile
After months of working 14-hour days and waiting, waiting, waiting for her pay to improve so she could catch up on bills, Maxine was forced to make a really hard decision. She decided she had to give up her apartment. After day five, she headed back to North Carolina and started packing up.
What We Spend
Paid by the Mile
What you're carrying, how far you're driving, who you're driving for, and how many years you've been doing this. But no matter your rate, you only earn that if you're moving, on the road with a truck full of goods. How much money do you make?
What We Spend
Paid by the Mile
Where did you go stay after you left your place? I live in a truck. You live in the truck full time?
What We Spend
Paid by the Mile
How do you all talk to each other about that? What do you say to each other?
What We Spend
Paid by the Mile
How much money would you need to make to be able to reliably have a home again?
What We Spend
Paid by the Mile
If the job is paying so far below what you need to meet your basic needs, what is keeping you in this job?
What We Spend
Paid by the Mile
Are there other jobs besides trucking that you could imagine having more stability in?
What We Spend
Paid by the Mile
We talked before about the freedom you would feel on the road. Do you still feel that when you're driving now?
What We Spend
Paid by the Mile
When you're talking about your long-term future that you are imagining for yourself, your dream of this land, does that include trucking? Or is your kind of long-term dream leaving trucking behind?
What We Spend
Paid by the Mile
In the weeks after recording the episode, Maxine was still living in her truck and saving money towards the future. But she did get one piece of good news. Her company is getting her a newer truck. Thank you to Alex Leslie at the American Transportation Research Institute and Steve Vasselli. They both helped us understand the trucking industry for this episode.
What We Spend
Paid by the Mile
If you want to know more, check out Steve's book, The Big Rig, Trucking and the Decline of the American Dream. What we spend is an Odyssey original podcast. It's written and hosted by me, Courtney Harrell. Our producers are Margo Gray and Kristen Torres. Our editor is Jonathan Menjivar. Our executive producers are Maddy Sprung-Kaiser and Leah Reese Dennis.
What We Spend
Paid by the Mile
Theme song and original music by Matt McGinley. Additional music from APM Music. Mixing by Pedro Alvira. Special thanks to Melissa Akiko Slaughter, Joel Lovell, Jenna Weiss-Berman, J.D. Crowley, Maura Curran, Josephina Francis, Kurt Courtney, Hilary Schuff, Sean Cherry, Laura Berman, and Hilary Van Ornum. If you want to be on What We Spend, we'd love to hear from you.
What We Spend
Paid by the Mile
Rates and loads. Basically, Maxine told me that these days there's less merchandise for her to carry and she's getting paid less to carry it. That is not just a Maxine problem. The freight market has been in a recession the last few years because when manufacturing, construction and retail markets slow down, there's just less goods to carry, fewer loads.
What We Spend
Paid by the Mile
And that means there's less work available, which leads to lower rates.
What We Spend
Paid by the Mile
According to the most recent data from the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics, the average trucker takes home about $57,000 a year, about $10,000 more than Maxine made last year. But remember, they're paid by the mile. So sometimes drivers like Maxine end up on the road for so long waiting for loads to come through that if they were paid hourly, they'd be making less than minimum wage.
What We Spend
Paid by the Mile
What do you do when you don't have a paycheck come through or when you get a paycheck that's like, I owe money?
What We Spend
Paid by the Mile
Maxine owes money to a finance company because she took out what's called a debt consolidation loan to reduce a bunch of her debt to one payment with a lower interest rate.
What We Spend
Paid by the Mile
Is that debt from regular living expenses or is there a larger expense that is just from bills?
What We Spend
Paid by the Mile
Maxine really doesn't have that many regular expenses. Her health insurance comes out of her pay, and then she spends about $120 a month on utilities, $80 a month on her phone, $645 a month on her car and insurance, and about $80 a month on gas. The biggest expense weighing her down is her rent, which is $1,400 a month for her one bedroom in North Carolina.
What We Spend
Paid by the Mile
But after all that, she often has to put her groceries on her credit card.
What We Spend
Paid by the Mile
Supplies like Maxine's paper towels aren't typically covered by trucking companies. Some companies do offer per diems to help with those kinds of travel costs, but there's no law requiring it, so more than half of trucking companies just don't. Despite that, despite the low pay and the loads and the makeshift bathroom, Maxine loves driving her truck. How did you get into it initially?
What We Spend
Paid by the Mile
This is Maxine. She is a 60-year-old long-haul truck driver based in North Carolina. How big is the truck? Oh, this is a 53-foot trailer. Oh, that's really big, right? That's it. Yes. Do people ask you to honk your horn all the time?
What We Spend
Paid by the Mile
But what else was it about trucking that made you be like, oh, as soon as I get the chance to do that, that's what I'm going to do?
What We Spend
Paid by the Mile
Maxine went to trucking school in Kansas, where she learned a bunch of driving techniques that would help once she was out there on her own. Like how to turn no matter how long the wheels span. How to keep control through high-grade hills. How to see the road in front of a long-nose truck. And she learned a healthy respect for the massive machines. Learned to stay vigilant all the time.
What We Spend
Paid by the Mile
I think a lot of us associate driving on big, long, open roads the way that you do with freedom. Does it feel that way to you? You feel that. You do?
What We Spend
Paid by the Mile
Maxine took time off for a few other jobs, but she's been trucking off and on for different companies since 2004. She's driven routes all over the country, but right now she works what's called a dedicated route, which means she's always delivering home goods for a specific company through the same stretch of the country.
What We Spend
The Price of Parenthood
For new parents, having kids comes with all kinds of life changes. And it can bring up all kinds of anxieties, new and old, that you have to figure out how to confront. And a lot of times, those anxieties are around money. That has definitely been true for Jay. This week, we'll take a peek into his life with a toddler and a brand new baby in the house.
What We Spend
The Price of Parenthood
On day three, Jay also had one more expected expense. His mom's cat of 15 years died, and Jay offered to help cover the death expenses.
What We Spend
The Price of Parenthood
And listen in as the week of diaries shows him something he didn't expect. I'm Courtney Harrell, and this is what we spend. how would you describe your relationship with money?
What We Spend
The Price of Parenthood
With the medicine, cough drops, and wine, plus some propane for their stove and generator and Jay's phone bill, day three's total was $345. On day three, they also had a little extra money come in. If Jay's family history means he's always looking for corners to cut and occasionally having to help out his folks, his wife's family and their money situation creates a different kind of anxiety.
What We Spend
The Price of Parenthood
Then, a few years later, when they wanted to buy a house, his wife's parents helped them again. This time with $25,000 towards a down payment, which Jay says would have otherwise used up more than half of their savings.
What We Spend
The Price of Parenthood
You talked in your diaries about her parents giving you all money.
What We Spend
The Price of Parenthood
Right, it puts what you have done up to that point in a totally different light.
What We Spend
The Price of Parenthood
After a tip on the haircut and buying a box of tea, the total for day five was $61.
What We Spend
The Price of Parenthood
What do you think was the biggest abstract kid money anxiety before you met kids? Pre-kids.
What We Spend
The Price of Parenthood
Jay knows that money has colored everything about how he sees the world, but he's really been trying to change that. As a religious studies professor and also a religious person himself, the way he thinks about it is, what does my life revolve around? It's what one religious scholar he loves calls an orientation point. Everyone has an orientation point.
What We Spend
The Price of Parenthood
The struggle for you was how do I shift my orientation from money to religion?
What We Spend
The Price of Parenthood
Jay and his wife are both educators. His wife works for a Waldorf school and makes $60,000 a year. Jay makes $92,000 a year. How do the two of you manage your money together? Like what's your system?
What We Spend
The Price of Parenthood
I think that's kind of beautiful. That feels like a kind of surrender.
What We Spend
The Price of Parenthood
Well, I would like, I don't know if there feels, there feels like there's something like powerful in the idea that you're saying this is bigger. Well, I'll just, let me clarify.
What We Spend
The Price of Parenthood
Jay's total spending for the week was $1,034. What we spend is an Odyssey original podcast. It's written and hosted by me, Courtney Harrell. Our producers are Margo Gray and Kristen Torres. Our editor is Jonathan Menjivar. Our executive producers are Maddy Sprung-Kaiser and Leah Reese Dennis. Theme song and original music by Matt McGinley. Additional music from APM Music. Mixing by Pedro Alvira.
What We Spend
The Price of Parenthood
Special thanks to Melissa Akiko Slaughter, Joel Lovell, Jenna Weiss-Berman, J.D. Crowley, Maura Curran, Josephina Francis, Kurt Courtney, Hilary Sheff, Sean Cherry, Laura Berman, and Hilary Van Ornam. If you want to be on What We Spend, we'd love to hear from you. Write us at whatwespendpodcast at gmail.com and tell us about yourself.
What We Spend
The Price of Parenthood
Let's get into Jay's numbers. Remember, their combined income is $152,000 a year. That's before taxes and health insurance. And they share their expenses.
What We Spend
The Price of Parenthood
Jay's referring to something called private mortgage insurance, or PMI. It's a fee that banks tack onto your mortgage when your down payment isn't big enough. So Jay is paying an extra $67 a month until they pay off 20% of their mortgage.
What We Spend
The Price of Parenthood
Their utilities really fluctuate in Maine. In the summer, they usually pay $300 to $400 a month, mostly on electric. In the winter, when the heat pumps kick in, it goes up to about $1,000 a month.
What We Spend
The Price of Parenthood
Transportation, $280 a month for their gas and tolls. Groceries, about $800 a month.
What We Spend
The Price of Parenthood
Their car insurance is a couple hundred bucks a month. And health insurance for the family is $383 a month. Medical debt, all baby-related, $170 a month.
What We Spend
The Price of Parenthood
A family gym membership at the YMCA is $93 a month. And they pay about $50 a month for a combo of Netflix, Spotify, Amazon Prime, and the New York Times game subscription.
What We Spend
The Price of Parenthood
When do you think like this kind of relationship with money started for you?
What We Spend
The Price of Parenthood
Jay went on to college at a prestigious university that gave him a lot of grants. His parents did help him out a little too, taking out $10,000 in loans. And then he had a work-study job to pay for books and other needs.
What We Spend
The Price of Parenthood
Jay graduated with a degree in religious studies. After college, he worked for AmeriCorps for a stipend around $11,000 and just got used to living on very little. And then, around that same time, he had an experience that made him see money differently. His parents got divorced.
What We Spend
The Price of Parenthood
He didn't see it as a kid, but now as a young adult confronting the reality of his parents' finances, he thought about the ways his mom would spend money when he was growing up and the ways that was probably shaping his spending now.
What We Spend
The Price of Parenthood
Our guest today is a 38-year-old religious studies professor in Maine. He's a parent of two kids, and he's asked us not to use his real name. So we're going to call him Jay. How old are your kids?
What We Spend
The Price of Parenthood
On day one, Jay also paid a credit card bill and sent a $50 gift card to his mom for her birthday, bringing his total for the day to $400.
What We Spend
Getting by as a Teacher's Assistant
By the end of day two, Victoria is getting by as she normally does. But then a couple of things shake her off her balance.
What We Spend
Getting by as a Teacher's Assistant
It's not just that Victoria wants braces. She really needs them. Her problem started with some tooth pain about eight months ago.
What We Spend
Getting by as a Teacher's Assistant
I'm like dying here. She eventually got on the dental plan that she's paying for monthly now and she rushed to the dentist.
What We Spend
Getting by as a Teacher's Assistant
At 30, Victoria is starting to feel desperate for a little more stability than 35K can give her. And there is one thing that would change her salary dramatically, getting that teaching license. But that costs money. It costs time. And Victoria doesn't have either right now.
What We Spend
Getting by as a Teacher's Assistant
In addition to paying for her insurance, on day three, Victoria also paid rent, her internet and utilities, bringing her day's total to $1,840.19.
What We Spend
Getting by as a Teacher's Assistant
Are there other people in your life that have a similar relationship with money and financial situation as you right now?
What We Spend
Getting by as a Teacher's Assistant
So Victoria was sitting with that feeling. And then she thought about this experience she had that made her feel like she was even more underwater than she thought. Recently, she was talking to someone at the bank and they told her a stat she hadn't heard before.
What We Spend
Getting by as a Teacher's Assistant
This week, we'll hear what it's like for Victoria to get by on a teacher's assistant wage while she tries to answer some big questions. How do I make my situation better? How can I set myself up for the life that I want? I'm Courtney Harrell, and this is What We Spend. What was money like growing up? Tight.
What We Spend
Getting by as a Teacher's Assistant
On day four, Victoria paid $18.12 for Spotify. Which brings us to day five.
What We Spend
Getting by as a Teacher's Assistant
ECERS and TPOT are evaluation tools that teachers use in the classroom.
What We Spend
Getting by as a Teacher's Assistant
On day six, Victoria bought a gift for an upcoming holiday, bringing her total for the day to $84. Day seven.
What We Spend
Getting by as a Teacher's Assistant
On day seven, Victoria bought one more holiday gift, coffee and a snack, bringing her total for the week to $2,300.94. How much does it cost to get your teacher's license?
What We Spend
Getting by as a Teacher's Assistant
And how long will that take you to have that done?
What We Spend
Getting by as a Teacher's Assistant
What we spend is an Odyssey original podcast. It's written and hosted by me, Courtney Harrell. Our producers are Margo Gray and Kristen Torres. Our editor is Jonathan Menjivar. Our executive producers are Maris Brunkheiser and Leah Reese Dennis. Theme song and original music by Matt McGinley. Additional music from APM Music. Mixing by Pedro Alvira.
What We Spend
Getting by as a Teacher's Assistant
Special thanks to Melissa Akiko Slaughter, Joel Lovell, Jenna Weiss-Berman, J.D. Crowley, Maura Curran, Josefina Francis, Kurt Courtney, Hilary Sheff, Sean Cherry, Laura Berman, and Hilary Van Ornum. If you want to be on What We Spend, we'd love to hear from you. Write us at whatwespendpodcast at gmail.com.
What We Spend
Getting by as a Teacher's Assistant
Is there a time in your life when you felt the most financially at ease? Looking back, yes. When was that?
What We Spend
Getting by as a Teacher's Assistant
Victoria graduated with a degree in art administration. She thought she might be a curator in an art gallery. But she quickly found that those jobs didn't pay enough. So after college, she experimented with a lot of different ways to make money. From working as an assistant, to teaching piano lessons, to teaching yoga, to learning to code.
What We Spend
Getting by as a Teacher's Assistant
So how did you end up getting to preschool teacher assistant? So...
What We Spend
Getting by as a Teacher's Assistant
So like that moment for you was in part like, I'm going to go find something where I feel more engaged. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Victoria did think being a preschool teacher might be a good fit because she knew that she loved being with kids. Growing up, her mom was actually a home daycare provider.
What We Spend
Getting by as a Teacher's Assistant
Do you talk to them about your financial situation now?
What We Spend
Getting by as a Teacher's Assistant
Let's go into Victoria's numbers. As you know, she makes $35K a year before taxes. She lives with her boyfriend, who tends to cover the rent and food. His income varies. He works on cargo and with cars. But it's always less than $80K before taxes. And their expenses?
What We Spend
Getting by as a Teacher's Assistant
She drives almost an hour to get to the preschool, so she spends about $100 a month on gas and tolls. She does own her car, but it's on its last legs.
What We Spend
Getting by as a Teacher's Assistant
His name is Sir Wallace. Turtle care is $20 a month. Digital storage, $1.99. Therapy, $60. Medication, $25. And she's got a few different debt payments. $525 a month for student debt, $300 a month for credit card debt, and $125 a month for medical debt. And then there's insurance.
What We Spend
Getting by as a Teacher's Assistant
Get Covered New Jersey is a state-run website. It helps residents compare health plans and apply for financial aid to lower monthly premiums.
What We Spend
Getting by as a Teacher's Assistant
How big is the, like, margin between what you make and your regular bills every month? How much wiggle do you have?
What We Spend
Getting by as a Teacher's Assistant
This is Victoria. She's 30 and lives in New Jersey. And for work, I am a preschool teacher's assistant. How old are the kids in a preschool? Four years old. What is it like to be with four-year-olds all day? Oh, I love it. They're really sweet, wonderful. The idea of spending all day with four-year-olds sounds really fun and also challenging.
What We Spend
Getting by as a Teacher's Assistant
What would not behind look like to you? Like, where is it that you think you should be?
What We Spend
Getting by as a Teacher's Assistant
For Victoria, the biggest challenge is the salary. It's no secret that teachers don't make a lot of money in the U.S., but Victoria makes even less because she's still working towards her teacher's license. As a teacher's assistant, Victoria makes $35,000 a year, $29,000 after taxes, and that doesn't include health or dental insurance.
What We Spend
Getting by as a Teacher's Assistant
Victoria's preschool provides breakfast and lunch for the students, which means Victoria can often get a free meal too.
What We Spend
Trapped by Student Debt
Kelly's total spending for day two was $0, with a surprise income of $1,000. And that brings us to day three. Day three turned out to have another fun surprise. Kelly helped throw a lip filler party for their clients at the med spa where she works. So as a reward, her boss said she could get a treatment for free.
What We Spend
Trapped by Student Debt
Because whatever you're buying or not buying or saving or spending, at the end of the day, money is always about more than your balance. I'm Courtney Harrell, and this is What We Spend.
What We Spend
Trapped by Student Debt
Kelly got gas for her car, some pretzel bites, and a Coke, bringing her total for the day to $75.
What We Spend
Trapped by Student Debt
After getting coffee, Kelly went to work. She ended up buying an audiobook for $15. And then after work, she went straight to PT.
What We Spend
Trapped by Student Debt
What is the number or the situation that will tell you that you can do it?
What We Spend
Trapped by Student Debt
I turn 32 in one week and I live in Salt Lake City. Kelly is one of the 42.8 million Americans who has student loan debt. And also, like a lot of her generation, she wants to buy a home and have a baby, and she's trying to figure out if it's possible to make all that work.
What We Spend
Trapped by Student Debt
Altogether, Kelly's spending for the week was $581.83. What was the experience of tracking your finances for the week like?
What We Spend
Trapped by Student Debt
Kelly married her husband about a year ago, and eight months ago, the two of them moved from Tennessee to Salt Lake City, Utah. Ben is an engineer for a software company, Kelly's a director of client experience at a medical spa, and she's also an online mental wellness coach.
What We Spend
Trapped by Student Debt
Kelly lucked out and didn't get selected for jury duty. And in the month after we recorded this episode, her debt dropped to $200,000. What we spend is an Odyssey original podcast. It's written and hosted by me, Courtney Harrell. Our producers are Margo Gray and Kristen Torres. Our editor is Jonathan Menjivar. Our executive producers are Maris Brunkheiser and Leah Reese Dennis.
What We Spend
Trapped by Student Debt
Theme song and original music by Matt McGinley. Additional music from APM Music. Mixing by Pedro Alvira. Special thanks to Melissa Akiko Slaughter, Joel Lovell, Jenna Weiss-Berman, J.D. Crowley, Maura Curran, Josefina Francis, Kurt Courtney, Hilary Sheff, Sean Cherry, Laura Berman, and Hilary Van Ornam. If you want to be on What We Spend, we'd love to hear from you.
What We Spend
Trapped by Student Debt
Kelly is paid hourly, but she makes about $50K a year. And Ben makes about $78K. That's before taxes and health insurance. Together, that puts them just under the average income for married couple families in Salt Lake City. How would you describe your relationship with money?
What We Spend
Trapped by Student Debt
You know how you always want to know about everyone else's money? You do, right? Like, you'll see someone buying something you want or taking some amazing vacation, and you think, how can they afford that? Or you meet your friend's new girlfriend, and she has some very impressive job, and you think, how much money does she make?
What We Spend
Trapped by Student Debt
OK, yeah. So walk me through your spreadsheet. So I would love to hear what all of your regular expenses are and like what you kind of typically pay in each category.
What We Spend
Trapped by Student Debt
phone payment $75, pet insurance $76, and physical therapy for $250. It helps with Kelly's chronic back pain and osteoarthritis.
What We Spend
Trapped by Student Debt
They have a Costco membership, but they pay that yearly fee with the cash back they get from their credit card.
What We Spend
Trapped by Student Debt
We mooch off of our families. Some of the subscriptions are on them, though. Dropbox for $12, SoundCloud for $6, Spotify for $10. Hair.
What We Spend
Trapped by Student Debt
I think when it comes to money, even if you don't want to admit it, we're all a little nosy. But I don't know, I actually think that's good. I think we should be talking about money more. And all the ways, big and small, that it impacts our lives. On this show, we are actually going to do that. We are going to go somewhere that we almost never get to go.
What We Spend
Trapped by Student Debt
What does that make your expenses altogether, your regular expenses?
What We Spend
Trapped by Student Debt
Kelly's degree cost about $40,000 a year. And after undergrad, Kelly went on to grad school at the same university. She has a master's in mental health counseling. But as Kelly sees it now, the math doesn't make much sense. I want to ask you something about that, and I mean no judgment with this. Okay. How did you think you were going to pay off that amount of tuition?
What We Spend
Trapped by Student Debt
Or were you at the time like, I know I can't pay this off. How did you think about it then?
What We Spend
Trapped by Student Debt
So that's Kelly. And this week, instead of just tracking it in her spreadsheet, she's going to tell us about every dollar she spends and every feeling that comes with it. How are you feeling about tracking your finances for a week?
What We Spend
Trapped by Student Debt
Yeah, me too. I will check in with you on the other side of your week. Okay.
What We Spend
Trapped by Student Debt
Deep into the heart of someone else's finances. Here's how this is going to work. Each week, I'm going to introduce you to a new person from somewhere across the country. And they are going to tell us everything about their finances. How much they make, how much they want to make, what they worry about, or if they don't worry at all.
What We Spend
Trapped by Student Debt
PCOS, or polycystic ovary syndrome, is an imbalance of hormones. It causes all kinds of problems, including excess hair growth.
What We Spend
Trapped by Student Debt
And then for one week, we'll follow them through their daily routine. Every day, they'll record an audio diary with all the nitty gritty details of how they're spending their money. I mean, the coffees, the groceries, the rent that's due, the car accident that suddenly upends everything. And after that, we'll talk about what the week brought up for them, what it's made them feel.
What We Spend
Trapped by Student Debt
A debt snowball is a strategy to tackle debt. It basically has you pay off your smallest debts first, and then once that's paid off, you roll the payment you were making towards that debt into your next smallest debt. And then you roll that snowball on and on and on until all your debt is paid off. Kelly loves tracking her debt snowball.
What We Spend
Trapped by Student Debt
Kelly grew up in Colorado Springs, where her mom was a substitute teacher and her dad was an IT manager. What was money like growing up?
What We Spend
At the End of a Broadway Run
Once she's collected her bonus points, she pays that card off. Then she puts it in her desk and mostly stops using it.
What We Spend
At the End of a Broadway Run
For Olivia, being an actor living in New York means her financial life has been unpredictable. Like she said, she's doing what every actor dreams of. She's been on Broadway, in TV and films. She has made it. But being a working actor means you have to just keep working, keep looking for the next thing. And you have to figure out what to do when there is no next thing.
What We Spend
At the End of a Broadway Run
Eventually, she switches to the next card that has something to offer. She usually only really uses about three cards at a time. It's all just a points game.
What We Spend
At the End of a Broadway Run
On day two, Olivia bought some eggs, some cheese, and paid for one subway ride, bringing her day's total, with her credit card payments, to $940.89.
What We Spend
At the End of a Broadway Run
With a couple more subway rides and an after-show slice of pizza, Olivia's total for day three was $11.70. Day four.
What We Spend
At the End of a Broadway Run
That means Olivia's financial picture is a mix of things we usually associate with success and things we associate with hardship. I mean, she owns an apartment in New York City on the Upper West Side. And she has a platinum Amex card. But she's also been on food stamps. And in the past, she's had to rely on unemployment. In fact, when we talked, she was about to be on unemployment again.
What We Spend
At the End of a Broadway Run
I loved hearing how you spent your days at the theater. And I was curious if being a standby was like, oh, hell yeah, I get paid to play Uno with these guys that I have fun with. Or if it's like, man, I really wish I was on stage. Or if it's something in between those things.
What We Spend
At the End of a Broadway Run
Like, no. Olivia had never been an understudy before COVID, but the first time she took an understudy role, when she really needed a job, she actually loved it.
What We Spend
At the End of a Broadway Run
This week, we're going to follow Olivia through her last week in her Broadway show, and we'll hear how she feels as she gets closer every day to another phase of uncertainty. I'm Courtney Harrell, and this is What We Spend.
What We Spend
At the End of a Broadway Run
After her second show, Olivia took a cab home for $26. She also spent $34 on two tickets to a movie, which brings her total for the day to $73.20. Day 5
What We Spend
At the End of a Broadway Run
Broadway Bowling is a weekly event when actors and staff of Broadway and off-Broadway shows go bowling together. So should you find yourself in Midtown at midnight, you could go watch Team Hamilton and Team Chicago face off.
What We Spend
At the End of a Broadway Run
Without any bowling expenses, Olivia's total for Day 5 was $25.80.
What We Spend
At the End of a Broadway Run
How does that kind of instability feel? I'm completely used to it. It feels like you're used to it. And actually, I had the experience listening to your diaries. I was like, oh, wow, she is talking about this really big shift coming in a very matter-of-fact way.
What We Spend
At the End of a Broadway Run
I guess I'm curious though for you, like when you are stressed about it, what is it that keeps you up at night?
What We Spend
At the End of a Broadway Run
With one more train ride home, Olivia's total spending for day six was $184.80. All right, audio diary, final day.
What We Spend
At the End of a Broadway Run
On day seven, Olivia also bought tickets to three shows, which, combined with subway rides, brought her total for the day to $156.90. Altogether, Olivia's spending for the week was $1,401.99.
What We Spend
At the End of a Broadway Run
Olivia's dad was a sushi chef who moved to the U.S. from Japan in his late 20s. Her mom was a stay-at-home parent who moved to New York to be a ballet dancer. And when Olivia was growing up, they all lived together in a one-bedroom apartment in Manhattan.
What We Spend
At the End of a Broadway Run
If you had to describe to people the feeling of being an actor, how would you describe the feeling of the experience that you have?
What We Spend
At the End of a Broadway Run
All over the place. But also like it's helping me understand because in part it feels like you're not so so stressed about the instability and the downtime because in part that's like kind of where the good stuff is. Like that's how you know that you're getting to go like pursue other roles. Yeah. You're not going to be.
What We Spend
At the End of a Broadway Run
What we spend is an Odyssey original podcast. It's written and hosted by me, Courtney Harrell. Our producers are Margo Gray and Kristen Torres. Our editor is Jonathan Menjivar. Our executive producers are Maris Brunkheiser and Leah Reese Dennis. Theme song and original music by Matt McGinley. Additional music from APM Music. Mixing by Pedro Alvira.
What We Spend
At the End of a Broadway Run
Special thanks to Melissa Akiko Slaughter, Joel Lovell, Jenna Weiss-Berman, J.D. Crowley, Maura Curran, Josephina Francis, Kurt Courtney, Hilary Sheff, Sean Cherry, Laura Berman, and Hilary Van Ornam. If you want to be on What We Spend, we'd love to hear from you. Write us at whatwespendpodcast at gmail.com.
What We Spend
At the End of a Broadway Run
Will you walk me through what your resume looks like on paper?
What We Spend
At the End of a Broadway Run
Let's go into Olivia's numbers. Olivia's income varies from month to month and year to year, depending on what acting job she gets. But for now, she's making between $60,000 and $70,000 a year. That's before taxes and health insurance. And about 50% of that money is from her most recent Broadway show. She lives alone, so all of her expenses are on her.
What We Spend
At the End of a Broadway Run
I rode 35 because that's what I was billed last month. So that's $2,122 a month for housing-related expenses. My phone bill is $50. We're on the family plan. We each pay 50 bucks. Transportation on the subway? About $200 a month. ClassPass for exercise classes, $17 a month.
What We Spend
At the End of a Broadway Run
You're doing a community service. I'm doing a community service, yeah. Her streaming services are about 60 a month. Groceries, 400 a month.
What We Spend
At the End of a Broadway Run
She already paid for her insurance for the year in one big payment that was a little under $2,000, so that's not a monthly consideration. But there is one more thing. She regularly buys tickets to Broadway shows.
What We Spend
At the End of a Broadway Run
Was there a moment in your life that you knew that that's what you wanted to do?
What We Spend
At the End of a Broadway Run
Olivia got that check thanks to something known as the Coogan Law. It says that 15% of a child actor's earnings have to be placed in a trust until they turn 18. How big was that check?
What We Spend
At the End of a Broadway Run
It may not be up to her, but Olivia says if you can get it, even a few days as a guest star on a network TV show can keep you afloat while you keep doing the theater that doesn't pay as much. But it's hard to know when those jobs will come.
What We Spend
At the End of a Broadway Run
Sometimes, even when she does get a gig, it doesn't last long. Like the job Olivia had during the week of her audio diaries. She knew that would be temporary, because the show had a limited run. For that job, she was offered the role of the understudy for one of the main characters.
What We Spend
At the End of a Broadway Run
As an understudy, Olivia got the same base pay as she would have if she were performing on stage, so there was no financial downside to taking it. But it did mean she wouldn't be acting every night, which is what she loves. What do you love about it?
What We Spend
At the End of a Broadway Run
You have the most intricate credit card system I've ever heard. I think that I counted 15 cards.
What We Spend
At the End of a Broadway Run
Basically, what Olivia does is she finds a credit card that has some kind of big points offer. Like, open this card, spend $3,000 in the first three months, and you get 100,000 bonus points.