Chris Mannix
Appearances
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
Well, the NBA really wants you to care about the NBA Cup. That's for sure. We'll see how much that sticks. But really, when you talk to people with different teams, the buzz nowadays is Jimmy Butler, right? And what exactly is going to happen down there in Miami? It's pretty clear at this point that There'll be a few teams that express some level of interest in Jimmy Butler.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
And now I think the question is, what kind of motivation does Miami have to do a deal here? Miami's playing some pretty good basketball. Jimmy just went for 35 the other night. And we know the Heat, they just believe when they get to the playoffs, they can beat anybody. And they've got a decent track record of Well, in 2022, they did, right? Yeah. It's not happening this year. Probably not.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
No, I agree with you. And if you look at their roster, Jimmy doesn't fit the timeline. Everybody, including Bam Adebayo, is 27 and younger. So you figure the Heat would have to get motivated to do a deal. The question is when, who's going to be on the table, what kind of offers are there. That's really kind of the most interesting thing, I think, in the league right now. Yeah.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
I was not at that game, no. But I do think, Bill, Houston, they doth protest too much about how they're going to keep this team together. Every time you see a quote from Raphael Stone or some reporting coming out of Houston, it's, we want to keep this team together and see what it has. And I get that. I understand...
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
wanting to see how a young team fits over 82 games, how a young team plays in the postseason, and kind of using that as a data point to build off of. But if you have a chance to supercharge your roster with a defensive-minded veteran that would fit in pretty well, I think, in Ime Udoka's system and his culture, I think you've got to at least take a swing.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
I think they probably think they could be competitive with Cleveland because there are things you can exploit against the Cavs in a seven-game series. They can't believe they're on Boston's level. They're not. And that's really the bar, right? Yeah. They could... As of right now, today, they could extend Jimmy Butler. They can give him two years, buck 13.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
You've got, I think, until June 30th to do that if you really wanted to. They don't want to. He's 35 years old, and no matter how he's playing right now, the idea of tacking two more years on to that option year, it doesn't make any sense to them. And I get that. How many teams over the last 12 months... have hand out extensions they wish they didn't, right?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
Like Denver and Jamal Murray, the Sixers and Joel Embiid even. Even? That's the number one extension to me. I was trying to be nice.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
Like Embiid at least has like an MVP track record. Murray had never even been an all-star. He was coming off that absolute crap of an Olympic run. Those guys are just examples of... guys you give extensions to way too early. Miami, they're on a different path here. Jimmy's not going to be on it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
I think my question would be, Bill, is if like... The draft capital move is probably the right way to go. The expiring contract is probably the right way to go. Reboot. Use that cap flexibility. But... Can you get interested in Michael Porter Jr. if that's a deal with Denver?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
I mean, he's such a good offensive player. And I just think in that Miami system, you could unlock even more in him.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
You're throwing out the cap flexibility stuff. You're going two more years at a big number for Michael Porter Jr.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
Yeah, after this year, right. It's a tough call. I just love his offensive play. Everything he can do offensively, I love. And he's kind of shaken off the injury bug from the last couple of years. I just wondered, he kind of fits the timeline too. What is he, like 25, 26 years old? All of a sudden, you're adding MPJ in with all these young guys, throw Jaime Jaquez into that mix.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
I guess, can you get something better than Porter Jr. in free agency? It would be kind of my question over the next couple of summers. I don't know the answer to that.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
Um,
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
Yeah, well, you can still, I guess, rules-wise, put Schroeder into a deal, and I don't know who's going to want Schroeder on the expiring. And they've got some... The problem with Denver is they have no draft capital, right? Like, you'd have to throw, like, Zeke Nagy into that and hope somebody... But man, you watch them, and I've watched a lot of them the last couple weeks. They need something.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
They need somebody with an edge. They need somebody to bring some energy to that team. I know Murray's had a good couple of games, like 48 over the last two, but he looks awful. His shooting numbers are all down. Jokic, I mean, I don't want to dump on the guy because he's having a ridiculous offensive season, but defensively, he's terrible.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
And that's a big reason why they've sunk as far as they have defensively. So they just need an infusion of something if they're going to maximize these few years of Jokic playing at an MVP level. I don't know if Butler's the guy because all of a sudden you can't shoot at multiple positions, but his edge and the way he plays, I think that would be something that Denver needs.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
Well, this is the problem among the problems. And I was talking to an assistant coach that went up against him in the last couple of weeks. And part of it is Michael Malone is just running him out there for like 38 minutes a game. Yeah, because he has to. If you're carrying that heavy an offensive burden, it's going to cost you something on the other end, no matter who you are.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
And I think it's costing him there. The other thing I keep hearing, and I haven't been around him personally enough to see it, but people keep saying he's heavy, right? Like he's not in the kind of shape you've seen him in in years past. And all those things have... caused him to go from being a guy that people saw trending towards an average to good defender.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
He's never going to be elite, but an average to good defender to now, he's kind of taken a step back into that below average defensive range. Look, it doesn't really matter for their purposes because he is so dynamic offensively, but
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
You look at their defensive problems, and some of them are solved with Aaron Gordon back in the mix, but Jokic, Murray getting killed on the point of attack, some of the guys off the bench not delivering. They're not a good defensive team for all those reasons.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
Because it doesn't seem like there is. I get amused by how many times I keep hearing Phoenix thrown in this discussion like it makes any sense for anybody to do a deal like that. Phoenix would have to trade Bradley Beal. Miami would have to want Bradley Beal.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
No, I see a lot of just going down through Hoops hype. It's like Phoenix interested in Jimmy Butler. Dallas, too. That's another one. That's not going to happen. I could see Golden State taking a swing. Golden State and Denver are the two teams that probably aren't all that concerned about Jimmy Butler next year. It's all about this year. You want to maximize a window.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
And if Golden State can get him for... some combination of Andrew Wiggins and Brandon Pajemski, then you'd probably jump at that if you're the Warriors. And if Denver can get him just for Michael Porter Jr. and some filler, you'd probably jump at that if you're the Nuggets. At least you should, because you're not looking at two, three years down the line. You're looking at now to win something.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
Do you think they're holding on to Kaminga, though, to see if there's something better out there than Cam Johnson? Yeah.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
I think it is, though. Did they change the rule for that? No. I'm not smart enough to remember all the new rules there, but I do think... Maybe they changed it. From what I heard coming out of this was that they can package Schroeder for another deal. So it's basically the same contract as DeAnthony Mouth. The second round capital they swapped means nothing.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
He's in low 30s from three-point range. He's really cratered in that sense. Schroeder's interesting. I mean, if he gets traded again, it would be nine teams in eight years.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
Yeah, it's probably more to do with style of play. I don't really remember all the... I don't think there were any issues in the locker room. He had some of those early in his career, but I think he's moved past them. Yeah, it seemed like they liked him. Yeah, and getting moved from Brooklyn is more about like, hey, we want a guy that can't play more than we want a guy that can.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
So I don't know, but offensively, I think he's going to help the Warriors to bring it full circle in the short term. I think having another ball handler is good. Having another scorer is good. A guy that can make shots in clutch situations. Obviously, Kerr likes him. I think he's going to help, but I don't think he's untouchable over these next couple of months either.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
The Cavs, to me, they're a great regular season team. They're built to win a whole bunch of regular season games because they'll play 11 guys, and that's awesome in the regular season. But that's not really consequential... in the playoffs. I love Mitchell and Garland right now, but smallish guards in the postseason can get exploited. We've seen it happen even in Cleveland before.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
So, you know, any deal with Butler and Cleveland would have to, I assume, involve Garland. Do you want Garland if you're Miami? Does that make any sense? You brought up defensive issues with Hero and Porter. It's the same kind of situation if you bring Garland into that mix. I don't know. If I'm...
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
I don't think that's the move if I'm Cleveland, but I don't know that I'd make Cleveland a threat to Boston yet either, despite the fact they played really well against them in those two games.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
I mean, yes, but the fact that we're even asking that question.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
I don't know, man.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
The short answer to Pritchard for Butler is I think Boston would say no because Butler doesn't shoot threes. If you play for the Celtics, you have to shoot at least eight threes a game or be able to. He's been awesome. What a contract he's on, too. You couldn't do a Butler deal because Butler's making 46 million and Peyton's making 8 million.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
Can you think of a player... I can't think of a player that's had the kind of three-year stretch of Peyton Pritchard where it's like he's not playing, Joe Mazzulla doesn't like him, he wants to be traded, and all of a sudden he's getting opportunity, and now he's in the sixth man of the year. I'm sure guys have had this kind of rollercoaster ride, but I haven't seen one like Peyton Pritchard.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
To get to this level, you said a couple years ago this was where we'd be talking about Peyton Pritchard, where would you trade him for Giannis or Jimmy Butler? Well, those were jokes. I know, I know. But I don't think Butler's a joke. I wouldn't trade him for Jimmy Butler. I mean, it's going to come off crazy, but Peyton Pritchard fits what this team is doing.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
Peyton Pritchard can come off the bench and knock down six threes, two of them at the buzzer. He's just the perfect fit for what they want to do.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
I think it's more of a what does Tyson Fury have left fight. I do think that for a broader audience, Usyk is getting some of the credit that he deserved back at Cruiserweight when he became the first ever undisputed champion in the four belt era, comes to heavyweight, beats AJ, your guy, twice. My guy.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
I get a text from you every time Anthony Joshua fights. And it's usually like, I can't believe I bet on that guy.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
Yeah. I think as much as, as he is getting some of the exposure that he deserves. And, and I had like a two hour conversation with him last month for a story that's coming out on Friday. He's really a remarkable guy with a remarkable backstory. This is more about Tyson Fury and, and, what does Tyson Fury have left in the tank?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
I mean, he has overcome a ton of stuff over the last 10 years, whether it's outside the ring issues, weight issues, depression issues, coming back from tough fights, a whole bunch of different things. He's never had to come off a loss before. And I talked to Tyson for a while last week. I've watched a lot of clips of him over the last couple of weeks.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
And I do wonder kind of what is his mindset coming into this fight? Like how much does he have left at 36 years old, which is chronologically younger than Ogs and Usyk, but he's been through physically and perhaps mentally so much more. I mean, I saw an interview Tyson did this week where he said that he hasn't talked to his wife, Paris, in three months.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
Didn't really elaborate on that, but said he hadn't talked to his wife in three months. And I'm watching the interview. I'm like, what? This is a big family. They were on that Netflix series. They are intertwined, those two. Hasn't talked to her in three months. Now, maybe it's because, hey, I'm... Just totally locked in. I don't know if I buy that. But I'm wondering what Fury has left here.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
Because if you're not 100%, if you don't have your A game, Usyk's going to beat you. I think Usyk is a generational great. I think he's one of those rare guys... that only come along once every 20, 25 years, that are so skilled, so strong, doesn't matter what weight class you put him in, he's going to dominate.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
Big guys, small guys, he's going to beat you with his discipline and with his game plan. And if you don't have everything going for you the right way, you're going to get beaten. And that I'm not so sure about with Tyson Fury.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
First of all, at some point, you should sit down with Bacoli because he's an incredibly engaging guy. I know you love him. He's interesting. Usyk would beat Bacoli 12-zip, by the way. Usyk would not make the same mistakes Jared Anderson made and stay within range of that right hand. He would just be zipping around. He'd be zipping around them, using feints inside, outside.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
There's a lot of guys I want to see Bacoli fight. He's a really funny guy. And fun to watch.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
Dubois does not want to fight Martin Bacoli. Dubois is sitting out there going, all right, there's maybe a rematch with AJ, which is worth eight figures. There's maybe a unification fight with the winner of Fury and Usyk that can be worth eight figures. I am not getting in the ring with Martin Bacoli and risking getting my head taken off. I've already had some issues with knockouts in the past.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
You're not doing that. Look, Usyk... What I love about Usyk is that he kind of gives away the game plan before every fight. When he makes these jokes where he's like, don't be afraid, Tyson. I'm not going to leave you alone. That is him telling you that he's going to be applying pressure all night. And pressure comes in different ways.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
It doesn't have to be this overwhelming, I'm going to put you in a headlock during every round type of pressure that we've seen from some brawlers. It can just be staying in your face and making you keep your hands up at all times and making you stay on your toes at all times. That's exhausting. Like Tyson Fury, I thought, won the first half of that fight with Usyk. 4-2, could have been 3-3.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
But the pressure Usyk put on was overwhelming. And in the ninth round, it got up to him. When Usyk landed that first straight left hand, that was the fight right there. So he's going to do the exact same thing again. And again, it goes back to theory. If he's not as sharp as he's been at his very best, I think he's going to have a lot of problems in this fight.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
It's not going to be AJ who wants nothing to do with Usyk. And AJ, to me, they keep talking about if Fury loses, you can make the AJ fight. We didn't just see AJ get clobbered over five rounds today in Dubois. Yeah. I'm just going to forget about that that happened. Remember the three in a row AJ won and not that one. So it's not going to be AJ. You beat Fury again. It's not going to be Fury.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
Dubois would certainly do it. But like, yeah, I mean, I think Usyk, if there was enough money on the table, would certainly fight Dan Dubois again, become undisputed champion once again. There could be like... events out there for him. Everybody in boxing has been trying to find a way to do a fight with Jay Lee Zhang on mainland China.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
The amount of times I've heard about Zhang going back to the bird's nest in Beijing in front of 100,000 people. For a while, it was Anthony Joshua. Well, hey, it could be Alexander Usyk that fights him there if Zhang can get a win in his next fight. So maybe it's something like that. But he will have...
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
quite literally, have cleaned out the heavyweight division if he beats Tyson Fury for the second time. There'll be guys he hasn't beaten, but beating those two top guys twice, that will be an accomplishment. You asked me, how do you beat Usyk? To me, there's only one way to do it, and that's to just apply unrelenting pressure to him. Because there have been times where Usyk has been in trouble.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
At Cruiserweight, he had a split decision win over Maris Bredis, who's a physical guy at Cruiserweight. The times that AJ had success against him, was when he was the one putting pressure. He was the one letting his right hand go. I think it was like the ninth or tenth round of that second fight. We had Usyk in real trouble.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
Even early on, Fury landed some good shots on Usyk, just didn't follow up and chase him down. Go back even further. Derek Chisora, of all people. Derek Chisora might have given Usyk his toughest fight at heavyweight because through six rounds, he was just lumbering after him in that fight. So if you are willing to just... go all in and commit on a pressure style, you can have success against Usyk.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
But if you try to box him, you're going to lose every single time because he is a better boxer than everyone at cruiserweight and everyone at heavyweight.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
Not... I mean, look. So Gilberto Ramirez is now a unified champion. And Gilberto is someone that people in the U.S. know a little bit about. Former champ at 168. Title contender at 175. Lost to B-Bowl back in 2022 over in Abu Dhabi. He's a name in that division. And... Usyk's fought in the US in the past. That would probably be a pretty big fight if Ramirez wins one or two more fights.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
The other guy in that division is Jaya Pattaya, who's super athletic, good power at that weight class. Still trying to build a name, I think, that's big enough to get someone like Usyk that's interested. So those are conceivable possible fights, but I would make Usyk a big favorite against both those guys. Usyk too, Bill.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
The last fight, I forget what his exact weight was, but you could tell that in what was, I think, his fifth fight at heavyweight, he had grown into the weight class. Before, he was just going up in weight, and he was like 212, 213, 218. He was solid in the last fight. He is a full-fledged heavyweight right now, and if he takes on a cruiserweight like Ramirez or Apataya coming up...
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
They're going to have problems with his size. So, yeah, there are some decent names there, but nobody that I would make a threat at this point to Usyk.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
I worry, Bill, but I worry about some of the... The scorecards were too close last time. Usyk, he needed that knockdown to pull out a decision. Right. There's a lot of money in a trilogy. That's a reality. If Fury wins, there's a whole pile of money. I don't want to do it, but I've seen enough in boxing to wonder what could happen in a circumstance like this.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
Are you saying boxing gets fishy sometimes? It gets very fishy. It gets very fishy. I think more importantly, there's some bad judges in boxing, like really bad judges. And judging boxing is hard. I have to do it on an unofficial capacity every week at DAZN. But some strange things happen on scorecards in boxing. And I hope we don't get that in this fight.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
I hope the right man comes out the winner.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
Really? But it's always on a micro level, right? It's like, I can't believe you scored the fourth round for such and such. Right. Well, let me go back and rewatch that and I'll rescore it. But look, it's hard, especially some of these rounds where there's not a ton of action. And I think Usyk Fury, some of those rounds were hard to score, especially in the first half of...
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
of the fight when there wasn't the kind of obvious action that you saw in the second half. But, I mean, I just hope there's no controversy to this one. If Fury wins, great. Let's have a trilogy. I think it'll be awesome. But if Husek wins, you know, hope he wins clean.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
It's the deepest card that I've ever seen. You go back to the 1990s and Don King put on some unbelievable pay-per-view cards where they were four fights deep, championship level, high level stuff. We've never had a card that on paper goes seven fights deep with all headliners night after night. And this is... This is an example of the positive impact of the Saudis' entry into boxing.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
What we're going to see in the main event on Saturday is an example. I mean, having two fights between Fury and Usyk in one year is remarkable. Even more remarkable is the headliner of the February 22nd card. I mean, we had to wait six years. Six years, both Beterbiev and Bivol were world champions. And they didn't fight each other because there's no money in it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
Because neither one of them has a real fan base. Saudis come along, they make a fight in October, and less than six months later, we're getting the rematch. There's a huge net positive for the Saudis being involved in boxing for boxing. I would say this, though. I don't know how necessary it is to have seven fights like this on a card, because it's great if you want to watch all seven.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
If you are a true purist, if you're a diehard, yeah, you sit down at... 11 o'clock in the morning on the West Coast and you're watching, you know, Zhang fight or you're watching Virgil Ortiz fight. It's great. Like, I would... I will spend my entire day, if I'm not there, watching that particular card. But... especially in the U S not a lot of people are probably going to do that.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
And I do think there's something to the idea of spreading this stuff out, right? Like having two or three great fights on a card and then a month, month and a half from that, then having the other two or three great fights, like having sort of a, a schedule start during a month. Yeah.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
Yeah, but UFC's able to do that month after month, right? Like, I don't know what the boxing schedule is after February 22nd. Like, there are some fights I'm looking forward to, but, you know, nothing with the kind of depth that we're going to see on the 22nd. Like, even, like, Shakur Stevenson-Floyd Schofield is a fun fight that would headline in Newark or in New York. Yeah.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
Virgil and Madrimov, good fight in Texas. Like... I'm excited to watch every single one of these fights. I wouldn't argue, though, with the idea of like, hey, let's push a few of them a month from now and maybe a couple others. Just divvy it up. Give these guys a chance for a little more exposure. It's great that they're getting the money. All these guys are getting paid.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
In a sport like this, you deserve it. I just worry about the exposure of a guy that's going to be fighting at noon Pacific in the U.S. That's the only thing I would quibble with. Counter.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
I think you should. I think he'd fly to Los Angeles to do it. I mean, he's got like this incredible story where he's from Africa, but he's kind of Scottish now and he's got this great personality that comes with it. And he's been so avoided for, for so many years. So just to put a button on the card, it's a great problem to have, right? Like I'm excited about it. I want to see it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
You're working, right? Are you working it? I believe so. They, we haven't figured that out yet, but yeah, I was at the last better be a people fight. Yeah. Um, it, it's a great problem to have seven hours of high level boxing is going to be awesome for the boxing fans out there. Like ultimately that's, that's what it comes down to.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
We did that whole Riyadh season card in LA, which I think was like six fights. That was a lot of... Because that was a pretty deep one. You had... David Morrell fighting low on that card. You had a pretty good slobber knocker of a fight with Jarrell Miller and Andy Ruiz low on that card.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
These are long days, but if you are a true purist and someone that just wants to sit down on your couch and is willing to invest seven hours, it'll be one of the better days you'll have.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
2021?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix
493.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix
I think this was back like I started that podcast before I left for Yahoo. So like it was back then. Let's just call it basketball or something like that.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Astonished. Um, I didn't believe they would get over six. Um, Look, that's a record. That's a huge number regardless. But the fact that you're just selling the team and you're not selling an arena, that is a huge variable in all this. When Matt Ishbia bought Phoenix for a $4 billion valuation, he was getting the arena with it. He was getting, for whatever it's worth, a WNBA team with it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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You're just getting the Boston Celtics here. And yeah, it's an iconic franchise, but... But it's a franchise that costs a lot of money, is set to have the highest payroll ever next year. You're taking on something with a lot of bills. So I guess my first reaction was bravo to H. Irving Grousbeck and the lawyers that he hired to... Sell this team because I really believe that he got this.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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He got the absolute maximum value that is possible to extract from the cells at this point. So I give him that was my first reaction. Like, wow, they got a price that I didn't believe they were going to get.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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I would call that corporate scorched earth. It's not scorched earth like Dan Gilbert on LeBron, but it's corporate scorched earth. I thought the most telling part of that was five paragraph statement that he released was at the very end of, I think it was the first paragraph. where he noted that he had put together a group of investors that were eager to continue to reinvest in the team.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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I think the last sentence was luxury tax be damned. Like what Steve Pagliuca is doing there is he is planting the seed for to be on the other side of future Celtic fan outrage. Because we all know there are some tough decisions that this ownership group is going to have to make in the next couple of years. Sam Houser makes $10 million right now.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix
In real dollars, though, that's like $80 million he's making, he's costing this team. There are decisions that they're going to have to make. What Steve Bagliucca, in my mind, did with that statement... was just put himself in a position where if this team does cut some corners over the next couple of years, lop off some salaries, he can sit there and be like, you know what?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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I would have done that. I put together a group of guys that weren't going to do that. Like he set himself up. We can get into the dynamics there. Oh, we're doing it right now.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix
I've seen it unfold over the last 20 years and you can unequivocally say it was a lot stronger at the beginning than it was at the end. Yeah. And some of that has everything to do with what you said there. Like, Pat Gliuca is in this kind of with his own cash. I don't know what the final percentage is that he owned of this group. I heard around 8% or 9%, something in that ballpark.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix
And he's looking at Witt Grausbeck, who owns a lesser percent of the team, but is effectively H. Irving in all of this. Like, he is the money guy. He gets to be the face of it. And you're right. There have been...
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix
some moments over the last six, seven years as this team has ascended into conference finals, NBA finals, ultimately championships, where, you know, they're not exactly pulling the trophy kind of away from each other, but you can see some of that tension between those two guys. And look, I...
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix
I don't know about you, but I had been hearing for months now that, you know, through Pagliuca, it's kind of telegraphing this to people in the NBA that he believed he was going to get it. Like it eventually was going to play out that he was going to get control of this team. It might take a little bit longer than people expected, but he was ultimately going to grab control of this team.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix
And you can just tell from that statement that he's furious, that he is completely bullshit right now, that he is not going to be the majority owner of the Celtics.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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I would say to Bill, like there were people rooting for him to get it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix
I do think there were also people rooting for him not to get it, though. I think there was a faction there that didn't want to get it, in part because all the stuff he's saying now, and I'm sure he would have said it if he had gotten control of the team, but I'm not sure everybody believes him.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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I don't know that everybody believes that he would be the guy to just pour money into this team to keep it a championship contender throughout the Tatum-Brown era. They just didn't believe him. He's... He's got allies within the organization, but I think he also has people that are not as fond of him inside the organization. So I think it was kind of a mixed bag there.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix
I also don't necessarily know, because even though there was kind of a whittled down list of finalists, there were a lot of people trying to buy this team and trying to get into the mix for this team. And there were a lot of people, and I heard this through NBA, and the NBA stayed connected to the sale process. And I was hearing...
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix
through those sources, like that people were kind of grumbling over, like, how are you asking for this when you're not giving us an arena? It's just the team and all the money we have to spend. So there was a lot of people frustrated with the price. And I think it's just as likely that some of that stuff about Wick leaked out from someone not named Steve Pagliuca as it was that it was.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Which leads into this idea that he's going to be the governor of this team for the next three years, which I believe is going to be the case because I believe it's going to be codified in the sale agreement. This is not going to be whatever handshake deal Mark Cuban had with Patrick Dumont and the Adelson family. Did he have any deal? No, he didn't have any deal there.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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That's kind of what the problem was. Cuban went into the sale thinking, all right, well, they're going to let me do this. And all of a sudden, very quickly, it was determined that he wasn't. I do think, even if it's nominal, we're going to get Witt Grossbeck as one of the front-facing owners of this team for the next three years.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Now, I think there are going to be problems with that, because if you're the guy footing the bill for the franchise... you don't, you're not going to have key decisions being made by someone that's got one foot out the door. Like, I think that there are certainly potential problems with that. But I think, look, Wick, all along, I've thought that Wick wanted to have his cake and eat it too.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix
He would not be selling this team if he wasn't being forced to by his family. Um, But because he was being forced to, he wanted to make sure that there was top dollar involved in the return and that he would get to hold on to his place atop of the totem pole as long as humanly possible. And it sure looks like right now that's what he's going to get.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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I had some people texting me today basically saying, don't be surprised if you see Wick kind of take some of the money that he's going to get off this and try to get back into the ownership group. As a minority owner. To stay kind of connected to this team. So I don't think, look, he's not going to be running the team forever, but I don't think Witt Grossbeck is going anywhere anytime soon.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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I go under. I just think there's too many big decisions that are made by a team governor. I think Chisholm and his ownership group is going to want to be the ones making that decision. Now, maybe there's synergy between the two. Maybe there's no... no space between them, no room for daylight. They're all in lockstep.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix
But the second they disagree on something, it's going to be Chisholm that says, it's my team. Do what you want. You want to stay in this capacity as a front facing owner, as the governor of the team. Fine. But we're doing things my way. And I don't blame him. You're putting up a valuation of $6 billion. Of course they should have that. Absolutely.
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The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix
Chisholm. Okay.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix
I'm kind of saying in a massive shoes its way, though. We both kind of are there. If I see that name, I call him Chisholm.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Again, there's too many personnel decisions, financial decisions to just fork over to somebody that's eventually going to sell you the rest of the team or whatever it is in a period of time. I think it can last for a year, a year and a half, maybe two years, but eventually something's going to come up to cause fissures between these two sides.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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There's just too much money at stake for me to believe that it's going to be this lasting, fruitful relationship. Now, I do think, though, Bill, like, I don't know that the new ownership group really had much of a choice with all this. Like, I think it was presented this way. Like, all right, we'll say the team, but you got to take all this with you.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix
Like, if you don't take this, we'll go to option B. We have other offers on the table. Like you saw, it was the globe story back in January. There's four finalists. Like,
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix
There were people that wanted this team, and I'm sure that Wick leveraged that and used that to his advantage and said, all right, if you want to buy this team, you're going to put up the $6.1 billion valuation, but you're also going to agree to X, Y, and Z. And I think that's what they were kind of forced to stomach in order to gain control of this team.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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He absolutely did not want to sell. This was his father, and we've covered this ad nauseum, but his father recognizing his own mortality and figuring it's better to get your affairs in order with cash and not with the Boston Celtics. That's why. I wonder if over the next couple of years that... Wick would come to appreciate the foresight of his father here.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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I think he's getting out at exactly the right time. Think about what you accomplished in the 23 years you owned the Boston Celtics. You won two championships. You put together two kind of mini dynasties. The one from the 08 to 2012, whatever it was there. It didn't achieve as much as it probably could have achieved if guys had stayed healthy, but you got that group together. You won a championship.
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The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix
You pulled off the greatest draft trade in whatever history by dealing all those picks and are getting all those picks from the nets. And you rebuild the team that's been in two finals in three years and is well positioned to win another championship. Like you have, you got an A plus for ownership.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix
imagine if like john henry had sold the team like 10 years ago like what would we be thinking about john henry now we rather than stick around and watch this team slowly deteriorate which is going to eventually right like maybe it takes three years maybe it takes five years but it's eventually going to deteriorate to the point where we're looking we're gonna look at them like we're doing this i was feeling good what the hell
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix
We're going to be looking at them like we're looking at Milwaukee though, at some point, right? Like, because they're just going to be so, you know, financially stretched that they've got to peel off some of these pieces and they're not going to be as good as they are right now.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix
If you're with growth spec, like you went out on top and knowledge, you go out on top, you got the greatest exit strategy one could possibly have, which in the form of $6 billion, you can take your cut of and do something else. Like you've proven you are a great NBA owner. You accomplished it. You can go on. You're still relatively young. I mean,
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix
You can go on and do the next thing if you really wanted to in professional sports.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix
that's the next story is, you know, we, the next story to figure out, right. We, we talked about kind of relationship between Wick and Pags is not what it once was like, how strained have that relationship become?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix
Had it reached a toxic level to the point where Wick Grosbeck was never going to be interested in selling the team to Pagliuca because that, I don't know, man, you don't release a statement like that unless you're, really livid at how the whole thing played out.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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I'm in. He was the first one to get in to all that. He made it clear from jump that he wanted to be the guy that bought this team and took over its stewardship and... And within minutes after it being announced as being sold, he had a much stronger statement that went out there. Yeah, I think that's the next thing to figure out is like, was this just about money?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix
Like the fact the Celtics could get a record $6.1 billion price and hey, if you can't meet it, you can't meet it. Or was there more to it? Was the relationship between Wick and Pags something that affected the sale of the team?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Worry is the wrong word. This year is going to play out how it's going to play out. I think the peeling off is going to be the Hausers. It's going to be maybe even a Derek White. The guys that you have ready-made for placements on the roster.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix
I'm not saying it's going to happen. I would say this, though. I think that this team right now, as currently constructed, is only protected by championships. You win a championship this summer. ownership's going to bring it back. You're not going to blow up a team that has a chance to win two championships.
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No chance.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix
Or even someone like Derek White. I think Sam Houser's probably gone. The second he signed that contract, when you look at what the other contracts are going to be, I was like, there's no way Sam Houser.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Yeah. I'm not concerned that something like breaking them up is on the table. But again, I do think that you're going to see some guys whacked off the payroll. You saw Baylor go off the other night. Sam Houser would be watching that going, all right, I'm out the door. If that guy can do what I was doing... I mean, that to me is what you're looking at in the years to come.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Now, if it gets bad, like if they want to get beat in the second round, you know, for some reason, not this year, but like next year, then I can see it slowly start to be taken apart. But for right now, it's more about the ancillary pieces and what you can replace them with. Like, look, they drafted Baylor and like that was a surprise that they drafted him.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix
They must have really believed in him because their payroll jumped a lot. because of the guaranteed money that comes with a first-round pick. They obviously believe in him and watch him go off against the Nets the other night. Maybe they're justified in believing that. He can be the cheap alternative to Sam Hauser and be your 7th, 8th, 9th man coming off your bench.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Yes, that's the attitude in Boston. I would also tell you that there's not overconfidence in the front office or the coaching staff in Cleveland either.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Like I just finished this story on kind of what Evan Mobley, but on a lot of bunch of young guys in the NBA that are potential difference makers in the playoffs and talking to people in Cleveland, even though they're two and two against the Celtics during the regular season and They played really well in Boston coming back to win that game.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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They recognize that they have not yet gotten the Celtics' best shot. They haven't gotten that championship round haymaker, to make a boxing analogy. And they know that's coming. They have to figure out how they... They don't know yet how they respond to something like that. And look, the guy that worries them the most... is Christas Porzingis.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix
Because look, they've got Evan Mobley, and Evan Mobley's been great all season long. But Evan Mobley does not play well against Christas Porzingis. You look at some of the numbers, they're not great. And that's a matchup that the Cavs know they have to dominate. If it's a wash between Mobley and Porzingis, the Celtics win in six.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix
They have to completely dominate that matchup between Mobley and Porzingis. And I'm not sure they're capable of doing that. I think Porzingis, when he's right, Both ends of the floor is great. So I think in Cleveland, they're happy with what they've done. No doubt about that.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix
They've been surprised by a lot of things, but they're not sitting there going like, we're whatever, 10 games up on Boston, we're 10 games better. They know that a conference final series is a totally different animal.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix
Just to put a button on the sale and the team, Al Horford, I think, is the first big test. Al Horford, his contract's up. At the end of this year, he's still invaluable. The way he's playing, you've got to bring him back. How much are they willing to spend is...
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix
Is it a no-brainer to bring him back at a two-year deal at kind of similar money as he made last time around, which is going to cost you a ton of money as well? That, to me, is the first test of how much this ownership group is willing to spend on this team because he's going to cost you something in real money over the course of a new deal.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix
They're still doing it. They're still doing it. Like Matt Ishbia did that ridiculous ESPN interview where he's talking about we're building around Devin Booker and he's the guy we're going to keep. Not to take this a different direction, but Devin Booker is too old to win a championship in Phoenix. Simple as that. He's not too old to win a championship or lead a team to a championship.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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He's too old to lead that team to a championship.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix
Yes, because he's eight. Look, he's aged. Next season is age 29 season next year. Like now is the time you do. Like now is the time to sell the Celtics as a franchise to kind of bring these two together. Now is the time to sell the team. Now is the time to deal Devin Booker. If Houston comes a call in with all your draft capital, offering it back.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix
If Oklahoma City calls and says, here's three or four players plus three or four draft picks. You are crazy if you're Phoenix and not doing that. That's some of the new owner craziness that's still out there in the league.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix
Yes. Yes. Yes. I do too.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix
There's also places you can build it. Like the seaports become cool again. Like it wasn't when, you know, I was younger and probably when you were younger back there, but now it's become like this cool place opposite Southie and there's room to do stuff down there.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix
They'd have to reinvent the T there and figure out new stops that go into that area.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix
I mean, that would be taking our mojo back. I would love to see it, but there's just no way. You're not buying this team and renegotiating your lease for TD Garden, which already, by NBA arena standards, is old.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix
95, I think it was. My first year as a ball boy with the team was the first year. Oh, nice.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix
There's not enough U2 concerts you could put in there.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix
I'd be less worried because it wasn't like an eight-round ass kicking. He took a shot at the top of the head that completely discombobulated him. You saw his trainer, Billy Nelson. Olympic gymnasts have not gone up on an apron faster than Billy Nelson got up there to throw the towel in right there. He He was he was one of the early stoppages ever.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix
He was ready to throw that in because his guy did his job when that first bell rang. Martin Bacoli had done his job. It was hilarious covering that out there because like Billy Nelson flew from Scotland where he lives and usually trains Bacoli.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix
over to riyadh but bakoli had to fly like premium economy through a connection because what i was told like the congo doesn't allow private jets in on like short notice like you can't just fly a private jet in and out of the congo so he had to fly like ethiopian air a connection through ethiopia to get there he got in literally two o'clock in the morning there was no chance on god's earth
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix
the fight the day before the fight two in the morning the day of the fight like two in the morning the day of the fight Saturday morning 2 a.m. he got in and of course they have him doing like three interviews when he gets there like let the fucking guy go to bed and try to get some rest before he's got to report to work in 12 hours um I'm not, I wouldn't sell your stock.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix
He's fighting on May 3rd on this Canelo undercard over in Riyadh. He's fighting FAA Jogba again. They're keeping that fight there. He's fully capable of beating FAA Jogba. He didn't take, really, I mean, he took one good shot. He flew over from the Congo and took one good shot, got out, got a paycheck, which I heard was about $3 million, and was able to go back to work the next day.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix
So I'd still keep my Martin Bacoli stock. He's going to weigh in the 200s. For this next fight, it's probably going to be a jog, but I think we're once again talking about him second half of this year.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix
I don't know. That was your answer. When do we get Canelo Crawford? September. So Canelo Crawford, like the worst kept secret in boxing is that Canelo Crawford is happening in September. It's going to be promoted by this new Dana White, Saudi Arabia, Nikon promotional company. And it's going to be on Netflix. That's going to be a Netflix event in September. There'll be some big names on that.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix
This whole card on May is entirely designed to get Canelo that fourth title back. William Scull has that belt. So you get in that belt back, you can say Canelo is the undisputed champ going up against Crawford, the two-time undisputed champ. It just helps sell the fight. That's really what that card is for. It is going to be in primetime, though. I think it's interesting. On a Saturday night?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix
Yeah, they're going to fight in Riyadh at like 9 a.m. is what I heard. Or 9 to 10 o'clock in the morning to make it primetime over in the U.S. Wow. It will be a good time for U.S. audiences to watch. Maybe not so much for the guys fighting on the undercard who might be fighting at 5 a.m., but it'll be interesting, that timing.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix
So their plan, what I was told, was to do like one big event a quarter. Like that's the mindset of Netflix. They're not going to try to be DAZN or what HBO was and do fights every weekend. That's not their bag. But they are doing this Katie Taylor, Amanda Serrano trilogy fight at MSG. That's July 11th. That's going to be on Netflix.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix
Like I said, I think 100% sure at this point that the Canelo Crawford fight is going to be on Netflix. They're also after Anthony Joshua, Tyson Fury. That's a fight they want to put on, which is such a huge global event. They'd love to get their hands on that for... either end of this year or early next year whenever Tyson Fury decides to rejoin the boxing ranks.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix
So one per quarter right now is my understanding of what Netflix wants to do.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix
Like the best fight?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix
No. I actually think Canelo's too big, too strong, too good. Uh... Well, I'm dying to see a Devin Haney, Ryan Garcia rematch. Dying. So those two guys, like that weekend, I'm going to be in New York working the three fight card that's in Times Square. That's going to be on the zone. That's, and Ryan's at the top of the bill. Devin's at the co-main event.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix
Both those guys running against the points that they can and should beat. And that would set up the rematch between them. And like, given what happened in the first time, we're not cheating the rematch this time. No cheating allowed rematch. This time we're using multiple. Ryan Garcia, because Ryan Garcia believes that he was screwed by the testing agency that caught him. He's using two now.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix
He's using the one that did it the first time because he has to. And he's using another one to test him just to get verified information that he believes. But that's a big one, man. That's two 25-year-old, six-year-old guys. With a lot of bad blood. Probably the most bad blood that we have. Press tour is going to be awesome. I'm all in for that.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
It has happened over and over again.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
It's my only hope, Bill. My only hope is that it changes.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
But this is a little recency bias because.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
I got it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
I was listening to this pod a month ago and you guys were going bonkers over how great Jaron Jackson has become. I love it. So there is a difference now. There is a difference now. Yeah, so plays. Right? Between – Jaren Jackson's closed a lot of games for the Grizzlies this year. Jaren Jackson's had a lot of big fourth quarters for the Grizzlies this year.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
And obviously, they've got to figure out a way – look, last night, they – job was not very good, but they all had 20-plus in the game. But – They can't give up 135 points. You're not winning any games if you give up 135 points. But the trick is, can you get all three of those guys playing great simultaneously? If you can, then you've got a chance to be a really good team.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
This group, I would say winning a first round series, it would be the seal. I do not think they can get that good. Wow. That got dark. Well, I mean, there's only four teams remaining. Do I think they're one of the best four teams in the Western Conference? No.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
No, no, no, no. Hold on now. You're asking me what I think. Okay. Well, if you win a second round series, you're in the Western Conference finals.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
Do I think they'll be in the West final? Like, I mean, I think if they won a first, at this point, if they won a first round series, I'd be happy.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
You don't think you can grow up?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
I don't know if that's true. I don't think that's true at all.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
No. Taylor loved Ja. Loved him.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
Yes. I think Ja was probably the least of the issues. Ja's availability... is a serious issue, right? So what are the issues then? Like, what can you tell us? Ja's availability would be the issue.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
I think my opinion would be that Taylor probably changed this year in some ways because the staff got gutted, right? Right. Who's going to be happy about that? And here's the other thing, and this is something that I've been very critical of them about. They have got to have veterans in the locker room. So they tried it last year, but then the season went to hell, so it didn't matter.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
And that was Marcus Smart, and that was Derrick Rose.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
No, but they did have an impact on Morant, right? You hadn't heard one bad thing about Morant in a year and a half. Like, he has not been...
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
The idea is a guy that's been through a lot of games, a guy that's been through a lot of seasons, a guy that's played a lot of NBA minutes and playoff minutes.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
Yeah, right. Just somebody to turn to. Right. And then again, it was another double down on youth. That's where it went wrong two years ago with the team that Rosillo ended up hating. Right. Like the team that they loved had Tyus Jones and it had DeAnthony Melton and it had Kyle Anderson. And before that, they had Jay Crowder and they had Solomon Hill and they had these guys. Right.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
Like there's no vet. There's nobody on the team over 30.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
There's nobody on the team that's 30 years old. Well, because the other thing I wrote down.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
And so.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
And also. I mean, he's good. I know. But one of the big problems is they play 11 guys. Right. Too many minutes. Right. Well, yeah, you're in the Yang. They play too many guys. You know, they play 11 guys too many minutes in the games. But I would say that you've got to have veterans in that locker room.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
And I think that because we can always like the coach is the guy that's going to fall on the sword when things go wrong. Right. But locker rooms are about those players. And I do think that. in the absence of a veteran and in the absence of your best player, like, it's hard to be the guy and a voice when you're not available. So Baines kind of walked into that role for the team.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
And I think that there – so I think there was a couple things at play here. I think you had – you know, a guy who probably changed up a little bit because he's, it's a new offense and now he's got a frustrated star, whatever. And there's really, there's no guy in the locker room to be like, Hey, this is okay. Everything's going to be fine. Or guy in the locker room, like who's throwing a chair.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
Who's making sure that this thing gets turned around because shoving out Dharma under the bench.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
It's Desmond Bain. That did happen. And so they were, like, melting down amongst themselves. But as you said, I mean, they're 9-14 in their last 23 games. Five of those wins are against Phoenix and Utah.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
So they haven't beaten anybody.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
All right.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
Well, I mean, that's not a Memphis thing. OK, nobody nobody is promoted more by Nike than this guy. All right. So it's not just like I mean, that's part of it. All right. There's a lot of people that have that stock in it. I am. And again, I am of the opinion it's still in there. I mean, I've literally watched it this month.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
I watched him be the best player on the floor against the best team in the NBA when Cleveland came to town. He had like 44-8-6. I mean, he was dominant. He still got that in him. Did he lose by 20? No. He still got that in him. I mean, look, every time they play a good team, they lose.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
He was awesome, though.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
So you're kind of stuck. I know I'm in a bad spot because they just fired their coach, but they're still right in the playoff mix. And as Ryan said, last season was a thrown away season. Okay? Yeah. The whole team got injured. They played more players than ever.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
No, hold on. The two seasons before that, they were the two seasons. Both seasons. Okay? Yeah.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
This season, before this 9-14 stretch, they were the two seed. They were on their track to being the two seed in a pitch of a Western Conference three out of the last four years. Before this thing went to hell. So, I mean, I could just pause on the whole like, where's this thing going? What are we going from here? I mean, they were about to be the two seed again for three out of four seasons.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
That's pretty damn good. And that's a pretty good reflection on your best player.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
I mean, I would say, yeah, he's for sure the biggest athlete we've ever had here. It's not even close. Yeah, it's not even close. It's not even close. I mean, Penny in college, but I mean, that was a local thing, right? But I mean, Ja is a worldwide thing. And I would say, I mean, like, let's just say, I would tell you this.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
There's probably, if I went, if I dropped my kid off at school tomorrow, I would say, I'd say 60% of that class, boys and girls, have had a pair of Jaws. I'd say at least 60%. At least. And I would say most have the jersey. Most. None of this surprises me.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
And I totally get that because look, he is frustrated to be too. I will say this. What was crazy is when I say people change, I was at the game last night, watch a Memphis play against the Lakers. And last year I did this whole bit about how I can't take this Luca thing anymore. I don't care that they're winning. He is perpetually aggrieved. Do you remember? I text you this Ryan.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
When I was talking about jaw earlier this year, like everything is, I'm just pissy about everything. Like, and I see it in your body language. I saw Lucas teeth more last night playing for the Lakers than I've seen in all those. I mean, he's like happy. He's like, he was jovial with the refs last night. Like,
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
Here's the only thing I'll say, and maybe we will see the rest of the way. Look, this is going to be a very telling week. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
Absolutely stunned. Stunned. Stunned. Okay. Yeah. Oh, yes. Absolutely stunned. Not that nobody fires their coach with nine games to go. I think we were all of the opinion. I agree with Ryan, right? Like, okay, this has gone the wrong way, but teams go the wrong way a lot during NBA seasons. We've seen it over and over again where you're just not playing.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
You're not playing anywhere near your best basketball at the end of the year. And sometimes the coach can beat it, but you're deciding on a pie chart how much the coach is to blame. But one of the things that is common is that you play it out and then in the offseason something takes place. Because you're that far down the line. Because how many big changes can happen with nine games left to go?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
Like, you're going to have to face some kind of veteran, you know, hardened team.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
I think it's totally fair. That game against Cleveland he had last week, I mean, that was great.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
But I was like, is this what it's going to be like? Because he looked like freaking San Antonio Kawhi. It was unbelievable.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
I've been saying it my whole life too, Ryan.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
And the answer, I guess, is still to be found out. Because... What they're attempting to do is throw on the emergency break here at the end and say, look, you got nine games left. You don't want to be or I guess eight games now after last night against the Lakers. But you don't want to be in a play in situation. You're probably going to have to get to at least, say, 48 games.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
Yeah.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
Totally fair. And what I would say is one of the things, and this is part of why the young teams have to get their playoff scars, is because when you get to the playoffs, these teams are going to be able to game plan against one team, and now they are directing those shots to who they want those shots to go to. Right. Right. You inevitably have to have guys step up last year.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
The reason we've got Dallas in the Western Conference finals is because Oklahoma City says, you know what? If we lose to friggin Derek Jones Jr. And if we lose to P.J. Washington, so be it. And then they did. And then they did. Right. That's the trick. It's like. Bro, are you going to count on Julius Randle? Because Anthony Edwards doesn't get to have 45, right?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
We're selling out against Anthony Edwards. We're selling out against Jalen Green or whoever the case may be in Houston, and that's the part of going through those reps. Last year, Oklahoma City will go through it again, and maybe they will be much better served for last year. But you remember, you're going to get to a point where a team just says, you know what, man?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
wins in order to not be in a play-in situation. So that means you got to play 500 and you haven't played 500 in a long time. You haven't beaten a team over 500 since February 2nd. And so it's like, yeah, this is way late in the season, but it's kind of nut cutting time. Like if you're, if you're going to not be in the play-in and if,
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
If Kayson Wallace and Lou Dort and Jalen Wood, those guys do it. But let me tell you who's not going to have 45 in this game. Shea Gilders-Alexander, right?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
And Wallace was the one that got him. That's right. And it's been Aaron Wiggins in some cases, right? They've got a bunch of different guys, but the lights get a little bit brighter, and now it's a little bit harder for those guys. And I think there's... Once you get to... You guys should do this one week. Like...
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
And that's why I like what Ryan said about the Clippers when he brought up the Harden thing. Because he said, bro, because you might, because Norm Powell may get you. Zubach may get you. Like the level of importance that Harden has is not the same as it is in all those other Harden teams. Because they've got other guys that could do it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
But like how many of these teams, even if you want to start with Oklahoma City, like the second guy. The second guy, how much do you trust whoever the second best player on that team is? Well, so it's that and that's going to matter a great deal, right?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
Please. Here's what I'd say, though, guys. I'd say that the argument I make there, it's the best argument for the Lakers or the Warriors. Right. It's the best argument for both of those teams.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
Oh, God.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
Yeah, because you're going down the list and you're going, OK, well, so their second best guy is Jalen Williams and their second best guy is Jamal Murray. And their second best guy is Alperin Shingun or Jalen Green, whichever we want to choose. Their second best guy is Jared Jackson Jr. Their second best guy is Luca or LeBron. Their second best guy is Butler. Right.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
Like, I mean, it's it's a real thing that happens every year in the playoffs.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
Unfortunately for them in the playoffs, you have to play a good team. So if you want to be able to beat a good team, like then you want to try something different, even if it is this late. But it's the I think I think I fall in line with everybody. It's not that they did it. It's when they did it. The timing of this. Usually you don't get this late in the season before a guy is let go.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
Do you trust Randall?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
Yeah, you're right. He's got big balls. Finch does. Because you remember early in the year, that game where they had the torrid comeback against Oklahoma City. He sat in. Their best win of the year. And he just didn't put him back in. And I was like, bro, this takes guts. This takes guts.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
They got a good coach.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
Yeah, I am much more concerned about young teams being bad at the end of the year than I am vet teams. Yeah, that's fair. I think we get to this time and vet teams are like, dude, we don't care who we play against. We got to beat somebody to good to get there. And so the idea that they're not locked in, you know, for 82 games.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
Tomas Isola. I love the Finns.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
No, no, no, no. They call him Coach T.I.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
And it was crazy because Memphis, of course, had fired their coach. It's all the things. So you've got this weird feeling walking into the arena. Now you're facing LeBron and you're facing Luka and you're facing the Lakers. And, of course, all these Laker fans have got their jerseys on. They showed up to the game.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
Then you start the game and you got whatever game plan you had to deal with those guys. And Gabe Vincent turned into, like, Klay Thompson and made everything. It's like, okay. Like, seriously? Like, this is the plight?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
Somebody's got to take the open shots. Like, you know, Rui Hachimura is always the guy, obviously. And that's the thing. Look how much...
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
Credit to Rui Hachimura.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
Good to see you. There's no excuses, right? Because I remember earlier this year when John Moran had like a triple-double at halftime, and he was the best player on the floor in Boston.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
I remember. Yeah, I remember that game. Okay. Tired legs. We're fine for tomorrow night.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
Please don't beat us by 40. We just fired our coach. Oh, you know what's happening. We don't need anything else bad to happen.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
No.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
So wait, so are you the one that called Dylan Brooks and told him to shoot it 30 times? Takes a lot, Ryan. In retrospect, now I find out who told you, who told him to.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
They do not carry themselves like that anymore.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
They don't carry themselves like... I mean, when is that... Look, that's part of the problem is that whole edge, that whole fun, that all that stuff that basically Oklahoma City has completely stolen from the Grizzlies, but you guys all... You know, ejaculate over it. Why? You know why? Because they're good. Yeah, they win. Well, the Grizzlies were good, right?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
And then what happens is you are the good young team. You're the new kid on the block. And then you get beat. And then everybody loves to say that your chest was out too much. And you want to push down a peg, right? Here's the deal. They have, over the course of the last year, was a completely lost season. Absolutely. And this season, Morant, I think Morant wanted to have the like revenge season.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
Right. And I think he wanted to come back and prove to everybody.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
That he's way down the list on all of these like best players in the league and all that kind of stuff. And everybody's just forgotten about him. Right. He got into trouble. Then last year he lost the season. So he comes back this year, and next thing you know, and I know you say it doesn't matter what kind of offense they run.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
I'm in charge.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
I don't agree because I was in, unfortunately, with my mismatched brethren, Jacoby, in New York City, and I was there watching the Knicks beat the Grizzlies by 1,000. And what happened is you started running an offense that famously – you can go find every article –
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
doesn't run ball screens they run less ball screens than any team in the entire NBA so guess what happened this year what happens is team comes out and they say all right we're gonna guard you with Mikel Bridges who's six foot nine and has a 7'10 wingspan and he's gonna be guarding you the entire time and guess who you're never gonna get off of you because your team doesn't
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
use ball screens and so next thing you know john morant standing in the corner playing thumb wars with mikhail bridges and the whole world is like what is going on this guy's one of the best players in the world so then they tried to save it this year in well i mean in march hold that point In March, he's averaged, what, 38-5 while shooting 50% from the field in the games that he's played, right?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
But if you go back and watch, they've started running all these high ball screens again. They've moved it back because it got to such a breaking point, and it's like, hold on now. We've got an offense that is good for – players six through 10, maybe players four through 10, but is it not one through three, but is it the best thing for your best player? Right.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
And, and it obviously, and it hasn't been the best for Desmond Bain either. Right. Like, so there's been a push and pull to this. And obviously when they play against good teams, it's been all year. They haven't been able to beat good teams. Their record is based upon them beating up bad teams.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
Yeah, no. And that has been frustrating across the board, right? Because he had this... He started off well and then he got hurt and he got clipped out of the air by Christian Coloco. Then he came back. Then he was playing a game in New Orleans and he ran into a Daniel Tice screen and his shoulder got screwed up again. And then he's I mean, it's just been one thing after another.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
And maybe maybe it will be. But I will say I I have always stood tall on this, that over the years there is a reason. And you're the guy that wrote the book of basketball. There's a reason these guys, no matter how great they are, no matter what level you think they're at. I don't know why it's the number, but they're 27 years old. They are 20. Yeah. Yeah.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
I don't know. Did Jalen Brown learn how to shoot? Because I heard you guys shit on him for eight straight years, and then he won finals MVP last year. So it can happen.