Carrie Johnson
Appearances
Consider This from NPR
When it comes to harassment, are federal judges above the law?
About a week after she left the judge's chamber, she ran into him at a party. I'm going to tell the next part of the story entirely from allegations in the court papers. That's in part because retelling it to me was too painful. At the party, he tried to get her to sit next to him on the couch. Eventually she left, but she got a text from him saying he needed to talk to her.
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When it comes to harassment, are federal judges above the law?
It was cold that night, so the judge suggested they chat inside his apartment. Once inside, the judge insisted she come to the bedroom. At first she sat on the corner of the bed, but he wanted her to lay down. Then, she told investigators, he grabbed her breast. She tried to pull his arm off, but he was really strong.
Consider This from NPR
When it comes to harassment, are federal judges above the law?
I just remember thinking, like there's nothing I can do about this, she told the investigators. This is about to happen. Like I always felt like this thing he could not touch. And finally, he felt like he could touch. A judge's control over the future of a young lawyer is real and lasting. With only a phone call, a judge can open doors to a lucrative job at a law firm or shut them permanently.
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When it comes to harassment, are federal judges above the law?
And there's no one really policing what happens inside a judge's chambers beside the judge themselves. Judicial independence and protecting the balance of power give judges a tremendous amount of sway over workplace rules. For nearly a year, I interviewed 42 people, current and former workers within the federal court system, about their experience.
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When it comes to harassment, are federal judges above the law?
They're men and women who work for more than two dozen judges, appointed by presidents from both major political parties. I heard from people whose self-confidence was shattered by judges who screamed so loudly others could hear from the hallways. People who were fired after a week or two on the job for no clear reason. Some describe sexual harassment like in the case of the Alaska clerk.
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When it comes to harassment, are federal judges above the law?
Many more shared episodes of bullying, and others said they faced discrimination because they had a disability or were pregnant. And things can get pretty tough for clerks who speak out. When the Alaska clerk reported the assault, she told a colleague who had been assigned to mentor her. But that mentor said she also had been coerced.
Consider This from NPR
When it comes to harassment, are federal judges above the law?
Her mentor later said the judge's power and authority contributed to the pressure she felt, and he told her he would have sway over a job she wanted. The former clerk heard from friends the judge was furious. And when she ran into him, he warned her to keep her head down and shut up.
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When it comes to harassment, are federal judges above the law?
The court system ultimately launched an investigation into the judge, Joshua Kindred. What followed were multiple rounds of interviews with investigators who cross-examined her and stress-tested her credibility. The court investigation took more than a year. All the while, two other young women clerks in the judge's chambers continued to work by his side. Then, in July...
Consider This from NPR
When it comes to harassment, are federal judges above the law?
Judge Joshua Kindred told investigators that the sexual experience was consensual and that he had no, quote, sinister intent. The special committee found the judge deliberately lied when he said nothing sexual had happened between them.
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When it comes to harassment, are federal judges above the law?
But the committee did not reach a conclusion about whether the judge sexually assaulted the former clerk, finding there was enough evidence to say the judge committed misconduct without even resolving that issue. Judge Kindred did not respond to NPR's attempts to reach him for comment. The clerk said she felt let down by the process. I was sexually assaulted.
Consider This from NPR
When it comes to harassment, are federal judges above the law?
The federal judiciary points to the departure of the Alaska judge as a demonstration the system works. The Administrative Office of the Courts, which sets policy from Washington, says they've taken extensive steps to protect clerks and other workers since the MeToo movement swept the country in 2017. And they say they hold judges to the highest standards.
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When it comes to harassment, are federal judges above the law?
But our investigation uncovered problems with the reporting system in the judicial branch. For one, there's a widespread culture of fear. And there's a good reason for that. Jamie Baker is a former judge who also worked in the White House and the military.
Consider This from NPR
When it comes to harassment, are federal judges above the law?
Not only is the relationship intense, it often comes with a huge age gap. Gabe Roth is executive director of Fix the Court. He's pushing the federal courts to be more accountable.
Consider This from NPR
When it comes to harassment, are federal judges above the law?
Another person pushing for change is Congresswoman Norma Torres, a Democrat from California.
Consider This from NPR
When it comes to harassment, are federal judges above the law?
Last fall, she convened a group of experts on the Hill to try to draw attention to the problem.
Consider This from NPR
When it comes to harassment, are federal judges above the law?
Torres says the courts operate in a patchwork, so no one's in charge of overseeing all the systems that employees use to report misconduct. She's working alongside Georgia Congressman Hank Johnson. Good morning. Pleasure to see you, sir.
Consider This from NPR
When it comes to harassment, are federal judges above the law?
Johnson's walking us through the Rayburn House office buildings. And into the Capitol to introduce the Judiciary Accountability Act. His bill would make clear the same legal protections for workers in the private sector and the executive branch also apply to the 30,000 people who work for the federal courts.
Consider This from NPR
When it comes to harassment, are federal judges above the law?
The legislation did not get a hearing before Congress left town last year. The people who work for federal judges, for probation departments, for public defenders, they can't go to the executive branch for help. And it's not clear they can sue in courts either. Aliza Schatzman runs the Legal Accountability Project.
Consider This from NPR
When it comes to harassment, are federal judges above the law?
The federal courts say they've done a lot to make sure workers are treated with dignity and respect. But I've been told clerks who run into trouble on the job still face tremendous pressure to remain silent. A bad word from a judge can derail a clerk's career, while judges serve for life. I heard it again and again.
Consider This from NPR
When it comes to harassment, are federal judges above the law?
Those judges who behave badly, often it's an open secret inside the courthouse, but nobody does anything about it. Many clerks graduated from top law schools and pride themselves on their smarts and resilience, only to break down in tears when they talk about hostile treatment they suffered working for federal judges. The judiciary protects its own, one clerk told me.
Consider This from NPR
When it comes to harassment, are federal judges above the law?
Another said, That was NPR Justice Correspondent Carrie Johnson.
Up First from NPR
Justice Department Firings, Humanitarian Parole Ends, China And AI
At least a dozen people who work with special counsel Jack Smith got dismissal notices. That's according to two DOJ officials. Acting Attorney General James McHenry wrote the letters. He said he did not believe these officials could be trusted to faithfully implement the president's agenda because of their significant role in prosecuting the president.
Up First from NPR
Justice Department Firings, Humanitarian Parole Ends, China And AI
Remember, Jack Smith brought two criminal cases against Donald Trump over January 6th and over classified documents at Mar-a-Lago. Prosecutors moved to dismiss both cases after Trump won the election. And this purge is a big deal. One longtime lawyer told me he couldn't think of a time in modern DOJ history where a whole slew of prosecutors who worked on a particular case were dismissed.
Up First from NPR
Justice Department Firings, Humanitarian Parole Ends, China And AI
Of course, Donald Trump had promised to fire Jack Smith, too, but Smith resigned before the inauguration.
Up First from NPR
Justice Department Firings, Humanitarian Parole Ends, China And AI
You know, federal judges approved search warrants and other actions DOJ took in its two cases against Trump. Grand juries signed off on them. So prosecutors say it's not as if these lawyers were acting without checks and balances. But clearly, President Trump does not see it that way. He signed an executive order last week designed to root out what he calls weaponization of the government.
Up First from NPR
Justice Department Firings, Humanitarian Parole Ends, China And AI
And the Supreme Court last year made clear that presidents have a lot of control over federal law enforcement. Now Donald Trump is using it. So what happens now to these prosecutors who worked with Jack Smith? Many of them are career civil servants who have job protection, so they could protest and eventually sue to challenge their firings, get back pay, get their jobs back.
Up First from NPR
Justice Department Firings, Humanitarian Parole Ends, China And AI
But that could take a long time and could be very expensive for taxpayers who would wind up footing the bill if these fired officials win in court. That's exactly what happened with Andy McCabe, the deputy FBI director Trump's administration fired in his first term in office.
Up First from NPR
Justice Department Firings, Humanitarian Parole Ends, China And AI
I'm hearing some of the most senior civil servants have been reassigned in recent days to work on a sanctuary city task force. The thinking is that's designed to get those people to quit. Yesterday, one of them did, the man who ran the public integrity unit. Lawyers who handle the environment, civil rights, national security, they've all been reassigned too.
Up First from NPR
Justice Department Firings, Humanitarian Parole Ends, China And AI
Mary McCord worked in the Justice Department for nearly 25 years. She teaches at Georgetown University now.
Up First from NPR
Justice Department Firings, Humanitarian Parole Ends, China And AI
McCourt says it seems like these people are being fired or reassigned because of fear they will not be loyal to Trump. She says that makes it easier for a president to misuse the Justice Department for his own retribution. NPR's Carrie Johnson, thank you for this reporting, Carrie. My pleasure.
Up First from NPR
Zelenskyy in London, Gaza Ceasefire Status, Judicial Accountability
I've worked on this project for nearly a year. I talked with 42 people who are current or former employees of the federal courts, everyone from law clerks to court reporters to people in probation and public defender offices. They told me about bad experiences with more than two dozen judges. Those judges represent both major political parties. They're men and women who work all over the country.
Up First from NPR
Zelenskyy in London, Gaza Ceasefire Status, Judicial Accountability
Well, let's start with the idea that the relationship between a federal judge and a law clerk can be pretty imbalanced. Judges have the power to make or break the career of a young lawyer with only a phone call or two. People told me they were afraid to report bullying or harassment by federal judges because the internal systems are so complicated.
Up First from NPR
Zelenskyy in London, Gaza Ceasefire Status, Judicial Accountability
The consequences for them are huge, and there's really no guarantee those people can remain anonymous.
Up First from NPR
Zelenskyy in London, Gaza Ceasefire Status, Judicial Accountability
Yes, I spoke with a former law clerk in Alaska. She moved there in 2020, and she had hoped the clerkship would jumpstart her career in the law. She was afraid to talk on tape, so we found a voice actor to share her words verbatim.
Up First from NPR
Zelenskyy in London, Gaza Ceasefire Status, Judicial Accountability
That judge, Joshua Kindred, began to text her constantly, sometimes really personal things, and after she left her clerkship, she said he sexually assaulted her. The judge later said the encounter was consensual and said he had no, quote, sinister intent.
Up First from NPR
Zelenskyy in London, Gaza Ceasefire Status, Judicial Accountability
Eventually, a court investigation found he created a hostile work environment for his clerks and had an inappropriately sexualized relationship with one of them. That judge resigned last July.
Up First from NPR
Zelenskyy in London, Gaza Ceasefire Status, Judicial Accountability
The administrative office of the courts helps set policy for the court system and handles all kinds of administrative tasks. They said the changes they put in place since the MeToo scandals in 2017 are real and that they're working. They say they're continuing to make improvements and more people are using their systems to complain.
Up First from NPR
Zelenskyy in London, Gaza Ceasefire Status, Judicial Accountability
But few of those complaints are actually about judges who behave badly. People who follow this system tell me those numbers are low because clerks are afraid to complain about judges and sometimes because clerks are discouraged from filing any paperwork at all.
Up First from NPR
Zelenskyy in London, Gaza Ceasefire Status, Judicial Accountability
There are some Democrats in the U.S. House, like Norma Torres of California and Hank Johnson of Georgia, have been pushing for some change. Their bill to give judicial workers more legal protection died last year without any action from Congress.
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Zelenskyy in London, Gaza Ceasefire Status, Judicial Accountability
Thanks for having me.
Up First from NPR
Justice Department Shakeup, Guantanamo Migrants Lawsuit, Immigration Crackdown Poll
The acting U.S. attorney in Manhattan resigned after she faced a lot of pressure to drop a case against Democrat Eric Adams, the New York City mayor. Danielle Sassoon had only been on the job for about three weeks, but she had a strong record. of prosecuting major defendants.
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Justice Department Shakeup, Guantanamo Migrants Lawsuit, Immigration Crackdown Poll
She wrote a letter to DOJ saying there was really no good reason to dismiss the Eric Adams case, and in fact, prosecutors were going to add a new charge of obstruction against him for allegedly destroying evidence. She wrote that she attended a meeting with Adams' lawyers and a senior Justice Department leader in late January.
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Justice Department Shakeup, Guantanamo Migrants Lawsuit, Immigration Crackdown Poll
And at that meeting, the defense lawyers for Adams said he would help DOJ with its tough immigration enforcement campaign if they drop criminal charges against him. Sassoon wrote, that sounded an awful lot like an unlawful quid pro quo. And the DOJ leader in the meeting admonished one of her team members for taking notes and wanted those notes after the meeting ended.
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Justice Department Shakeup, Guantanamo Migrants Lawsuit, Immigration Crackdown Poll
Eric Adams quitted crime, she wrote, and there's no good faith way to walk away from that case.
Up First from NPR
Justice Department Shakeup, Guantanamo Migrants Lawsuit, Immigration Crackdown Poll
For now, nothing but Emil Bovee, one of Donald Trump's former defense lawyers and the second in command at the DOJ right now. He wrote that Danielle Sassoon had been insubordinate. He was in that meeting with Adams' lawyer, and he says he was worried about those notes because of leaks to the media.
Up First from NPR
Justice Department Shakeup, Guantanamo Migrants Lawsuit, Immigration Crackdown Poll
He placed two other prosecutors in the Adams case on administrative leave while they undergo an investigation by their own Justice Department. NPR has learned one of those prosecutors won two bronze stars in the military and that he clerked for Chief Justice John Roberts.
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Justice Department Shakeup, Guantanamo Migrants Lawsuit, Immigration Crackdown Poll
This mess spread beyond New York City and into Justice Department headquarters in Washington. Because the prosecutors in New York refused to back away from the Adams case, Emil Bovey transferred it to the Public Integrity Unit at Maine Justice here in D.C. Two senior lawyers quit, Kevin Driscoll and John Keller. Late yesterday, three more attorneys in D.C. quit, too.
Up First from NPR
Justice Department Shakeup, Guantanamo Migrants Lawsuit, Immigration Crackdown Poll
A former senior Justice Department official told me, this is by far the worst thing we've seen from the Trump Justice Department so far, and that's a high bar. And is there any response from New York's Mayor Eric Adams? Adams has pleaded not guilty to all these corruption charges he's been spending time with President Trump.
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Justice Department Shakeup, Guantanamo Migrants Lawsuit, Immigration Crackdown Poll
And he says the Biden Justice Department went after him because he criticized Biden on immigration. But the prosecutors in New York started investigating Eric Adams long before that happened. When reporters asked Trump about all this last night, Trump said he didn't personally request the case be dropped and he didn't know anything about it. And where do things go from here, Carrie?
Up First from NPR
Justice Department Shakeup, Guantanamo Migrants Lawsuit, Immigration Crackdown Poll
So far, the charges against Adams have not been dropped. So if senior leaders at DOJ want to do that, they're going to have to do it themselves or find someone else who will agree. We're only three weeks into this new era at the Justice Department.
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Justice Department Shakeup, Guantanamo Migrants Lawsuit, Immigration Crackdown Poll
We've seen so many firings of the people who prosecuted Trump, firings of prosecutors who prosecuted defendants in the Capitol riot, and FBI agents suing their bosses at the Justice Department. This is really unheard of activity at the DOJ.