Cameron Esposito
Appearances
We Can Do Hard Things
Cameron Esposito: How to Save Your Damn Self (Best Of)
You know, I think that's really common, really human. I think part of the reason I figured this out is because I've been in like the pressure cooker of having it's just like part of my job to display. When I first started performing, I was just like in college and I was just doing improv kind of like to survive because I was closeted.
We Can Do Hard Things
Cameron Esposito: How to Save Your Damn Self (Best Of)
And I was at a school where you couldn't come out. You could be kicked out of school for being gay. Catholic school, right? You were in Catholic school.
We Can Do Hard Things
Cameron Esposito: How to Save Your Damn Self (Best Of)
Yeah. And that, I never saw that happen to anybody, but it was literally, you were not protected by the non-discrimination policy. There were 4,000 people in my class. My first girlfriend and I, we eventually went to like the commencement ball, the end of senior year sort of college prom ceremony. together really worried that we would not be able to graduate.
We Can Do Hard Things
Cameron Esposito: How to Save Your Damn Self (Best Of)
And there were two other gay dude couples that made the same choice to do that. So there were six of us in my class of 4,000. And I also didn't know anybody else in other years at that time that were out. So there were like 12,000 undergrads and there were six of us. So anyway, comedy was a place that I could be seen for something that felt true, even if all of me couldn't be true.
We Can Do Hard Things
Cameron Esposito: How to Save Your Damn Self (Best Of)
And, um, I didn't really know that it would eventually lead to like a job being slammed up against the wall. I didn't even know it was like a profession. Yeah.
We Can Do Hard Things
Cameron Esposito: How to Save Your Damn Self (Best Of)
I didn't realize this until just a few years ago, but I think I was pretty badly bullied as a child. I thought that's how everybody was treated. I had glasses and braces and a bowl cut, and I was... Something weird was going on with my gender and I was gay and I was and I had crossed eyes. This child, there was a lot going on.
We Can Do Hard Things
Cameron Esposito: How to Save Your Damn Self (Best Of)
And so I think I just made the joke first to sort of be like, I know what you're going to say. well, here's an even funnier spin, right? And also to sort of have value to people. When I wasn't able to play the game of being sort of a girl that might be valuable for some other stuff that women are valued for. This is all garbage, by the way. It's not like I think this should exist.
We Can Do Hard Things
Cameron Esposito: How to Save Your Damn Self (Best Of)
But it was another way of making myself valuable as a friend or as a student, those types of things. So yeah, it got super funny. And actually, I... have in the last couple of years, like really wondered about the long-term viability of that skillset. Cause I took it to like its end, you know, I was funny, funny, funny. And then I was funny for a living.
We Can Do Hard Things
Cameron Esposito: How to Save Your Damn Self (Best Of)
And then I was having success in, in that area. And then I was married and that marriage was ending. And it was the first time in my life that I was not Well, for a while it was like private. So I wasn't able to talk about it on stage. And then I, it was really sad. Like I was sadder than I was funny about it.
We Can Do Hard Things
Cameron Esposito: How to Save Your Damn Self (Best Of)
That's actually a good thing because it changed how I make friends and how I use, I like overdeveloped that skill. So I never really told anybody the truth about what was going on. I just told them like, Here's the saddest thing you've ever heard, but we're all chuckling about it. You know, it broke.
We Can Do Hard Things
Cameron Esposito: How to Save Your Damn Self (Best Of)
My sense of humor broke for a while, which actually is one of the best things that ever happened to me.
We Can Do Hard Things
Cameron Esposito: How to Save Your Damn Self (Best Of)
Talk to us about that. This is a rule I have now. It's a rule I made for myself and who knows if rules are good, but I actually think this one is pretty good, which is that I don't bring something to the internet or to stage that I haven't told someone else interpersonally. That's good.
We Can Do Hard Things
Cameron Esposito: How to Save Your Damn Self (Best Of)
And I think part of that is, you know, when you do stand up since public speaking, and I'm sure you get this all the time too, Glennon. And actually I even feel like I know how hard this is for you a little bit, just from, from knowing you, people will talk about public speaking as being the most like, oh my God, I can't believe you do standup. Like that's so hard.
We Can Do Hard Things
Cameron Esposito: How to Save Your Damn Self (Best Of)
And I'm like, I don't know, different people have different skills. Some people are a brain surgeon, you know, that's the first thing I'll say. The next thing I'll say is like, that's not hard for me. Like, it's not that the skill of standup isn't hard. You know, any skill is
We Can Do Hard Things
Cameron Esposito: How to Save Your Damn Self (Best Of)
something you can work on over time, but standing up in front of, you know, 20, 200, the largest audience I've ever performed for is 40,000 people. That, that is like- Exactly. You know, it's much worse. Talk to one person that you have to ever see again. Oh my God. No, nope. That's that is impossible. Talk to thousands of people that are going to leave. Great. Easy. Like, yeah, no problem.
We Can Do Hard Things
Cameron Esposito: How to Save Your Damn Self (Best Of)
There's no intimacy there. There's some spiritual intimacy, but it's not something that you're going to have to grow. You know, I'm not going to have to show up and have these people know me. That's right.
We Can Do Hard Things
Cameron Esposito: How to Save Your Damn Self (Best Of)
Yes. Yes, I did. I really appreciated the reminder and yes, it did help again, you know, performing and stuff. People will ask what the experience is like. And I will say you are on one is on drugs. The way that it affects my, um, adrenaline and my, the chemicals inside my body is that I am, I am on an altered state. So like performing kind of makes you just want to
We Can Do Hard Things
Cameron Esposito: How to Save Your Damn Self (Best Of)
if you're a certain type of person, perform more. Yeah. If you're a certain type of person, like everyone on this podcast. Yeah. Yeah. It just kind of makes you want to perform more. When I was texting about this, it's like, I had been on this, you know, been working that day and it's like, the up is so intense. And I think I was like, trying to stay up. Like what else can I do?
We Can Do Hard Things
Cameron Esposito: How to Save Your Damn Self (Best Of)
You know, I have a day off. I'm like writing think pieces. I'm like pitching TV show. It's literally like, no, sit down or, or walk and listen to something and, you know, yeah, come down a little bit. But I think once I'm in that state, the last thing I want to do is come down.
We Can Do Hard Things
Cameron Esposito: How to Save Your Damn Self (Best Of)
It really does help. I just said this, I'm repeating myself, but it's very hard for me. It's very hard to be known. Um, it's very hard to be open to suggestion. If you're a certain type of person, I don't want people to know. I don't have it figured out. That feels embarrassing for some reason. We don't know why that is. That's not a healthy reaction to not having it figured out.
We Can Do Hard Things
Cameron Esposito: How to Save Your Damn Self (Best Of)
And also like, I want to move, I want, you know, I want to move like fast and loose and have.
We Can Do Hard Things
Cameron Esposito: How to Save Your Damn Self (Best Of)
Sparky, flame out relationships and do a completely wild job and fling my body around the country in a plane. That's like what feels normal to me. Chaos feels calming.
We Can Do Hard Things
Cameron Esposito: How to Save Your Damn Self (Best Of)
Oh, that really hit me. Yeah, did it?
We Can Do Hard Things
Cameron Esposito: How to Save Your Damn Self (Best Of)
Chaos is so, in my experience, chill.
We Can Do Hard Things
Cameron Esposito: How to Save Your Damn Self (Best Of)
Let's go. Yeah. I just feel like I can relax. I'm like, oh, thank God. Finally, the world feels like I feel. Finally, there's not like something I'm not doing or something I could do better. Everything's so impossible that it's like, oh, I can really chill out. Wow. Cool.
We Can Do Hard Things
Cameron Esposito: How to Save Your Damn Self (Best Of)
So anyway, that is what I'm trying to instead have connection and friendship and have the ability to stay, the ability to like not run toward or away, but just to like hang. I'm finding that a lot in my romantic relationship. I'm finding that a lot in having friends that I go back to again and again. I have hobbies. I'm finding that a lot in having hobbies.
We Can Do Hard Things
Cameron Esposito: How to Save Your Damn Self (Best Of)
What are the hobbies? I love my hobbies. I run. I have a running partner. Wow. That is so... Bonkers to me. But I have a running partner. I have a running partner I run with. I go swimming at the YMCA that is in my tiny mountain town that I live in outside of Los Angeles. I take dance classes, which is really cool and new for me, like ballet and bar classes, which is so gender challenging.
We Can Do Hard Things
Cameron Esposito: How to Save Your Damn Self (Best Of)
I was just going to say, what outfit do you wear? Great question. I wear like a t-shirt and sort of like, I guess, yoga pants. But you know, when I was a little kid and I took a zillion ballet classes, like the boys would wear, they wear like black tight pants and a t-shirt. Way cooler. So that's sort of, that's what I wear basically.
We Can Do Hard Things
Cameron Esposito: How to Save Your Damn Self (Best Of)
These are all body hobbies. We could also talk about theology. That's something else we could talk about in a minute. We're going to. That's my other hobby. But yeah, I am trying to...
We Can Do Hard Things
Cameron Esposito: How to Save Your Damn Self (Best Of)
utilize my body as like a better vehicle for my spirit these days for a long time when I was using my body it would be like alone like I'm like I hike in the woods no one's there you know like that's oh interesting other people have to be around huh Well, I'm experimenting with other people being around. I did play team sports for a lot of years, but then after that, I don't know.
We Can Do Hard Things
Cameron Esposito: How to Save Your Damn Self (Best Of)
But then when, when Abby was continuing that trajectory, that was no longer a part of my life. I think I felt like I just didn't want anybody to look at me.
We Can Do Hard Things
Cameron Esposito: How to Save Your Damn Self (Best Of)
And nobody's looking at you, but I really felt like even if they terminate or scan past me, but don't register me, I don't even want that. Yeah. I really like using my body and I really like moving around. I've got a ton of energy. I have been challenging myself to be with other people.
We Can Do Hard Things
Cameron Esposito: How to Save Your Damn Self (Best Of)
I also will say to like be working on my strength a little bit more with these things as opposed to, um, limiting food intake because I have had a massive history of disordered eating and that can still rear its head where I think like that the solution is, um, eating less eating different types of foods that are super restrictive.
We Can Do Hard Things
Cameron Esposito: How to Save Your Damn Self (Best Of)
It's just a different way of, for me of like being in touch with my bod. Cause again, it's also not like, uh, three hours on a treadmill alone. It's sort of like what the class says we're doing.
We Can Do Hard Things
Cameron Esposito: How to Save Your Damn Self (Best Of)
You love it? I love it.
We Can Do Hard Things
Cameron Esposito: How to Save Your Damn Self (Best Of)
I'm like, Oh God. I mean, that's so interesting that you like, so this is a thing that I, when it was brought to my attention, it almost broke my brain. One thing that's true is I cry constantly. I cry all the time. I have a lot of emotions. I only found this out a couple of years ago because prior to that, I was allowing zero of them to exit my body. It's in your book that you didn't cry.
We Can Do Hard Things
Cameron Esposito: How to Save Your Damn Self (Best Of)
And so now you cry. I cry all the time. Oh, that's wonderful. Yeah, thank you, my friend. All of your support on this. Yeah, I basically never cried one time until I was 35. Wow. And then, anyway, I cry constantly. My spouse, Katie, is a very gentle person. Calming energy. Correct.
We Can Do Hard Things
Cameron Esposito: How to Save Your Damn Self (Best Of)
And well, one thing that will happen sometimes is that if she might hug me, if I don't even know I'm going to cry yet, this is true. Sometimes I'm laughing and I'm going to do a laugh to cry, but I don't know that's going to happen. But can... Katie knows that's going to happen and she'll do a little hug on me. And it's terrible because it's like, Oh no, now this is going to definitely happen.
We Can Do Hard Things
Cameron Esposito: How to Save Your Damn Self (Best Of)
And I can't believe you noticed. And then something I would say to her when she would do this is, was don't notice me. She like hugs me. I would go, don't notice me. But I would say it frequently, but I didn't even realize I was saying it. And then she's a very noticing person. And so she mentioned this to me one time that I would say, don't notice me. And I was like, yeah, I mean, that's it.
We Can Do Hard Things
Cameron Esposito: How to Save Your Damn Self (Best Of)
That's it right there is like, I feel overnoticed in my life. I feel like for my whole life, I've been overnoticed about like being a little kid, people telling me I'm fat when I was like, also not fat, um, being a little kid and like my clothes are the wrong thing or getting served, but that feels dangerous because it feels scary.
We Can Do Hard Things
Cameron Esposito: How to Save Your Damn Self (Best Of)
And I don't know, when's this person going to find out they've made a mistake and have they made a mistake and, you know, all of this. And so I just feel overnoticed. And I think that's, again, when you think about something like standup, it's like, okay, fine. You want to see like, but you have to pay. Yeah. And I get to be in charge and I can kick you out. That's right.
We Can Do Hard Things
Cameron Esposito: How to Save Your Damn Self (Best Of)
Like, it's like, it's a, and it's not a conversation because you don't get to talk back.
We Can Do Hard Things
Cameron Esposito: How to Save Your Damn Self (Best Of)
Yeah, exactly. It's a monologue. Yes. Your part in this is laughing, which is like actually a submissive. posture in the primate kingdom. So I will, you want, if you want to notice me come right in here, I will control and dominate you for an hour and it will be like wizardry and also kind of spiritual and you can go home.
We Can Do Hard Things
Cameron Esposito: How to Save Your Damn Self (Best Of)
Okay. No, I love this. I'm just thinking about how I've never, never one time. Well, I've been experimenting with this recently, but until about a month ago, never have, has a therapist ended a session with me. It's always like, I'm like looking at the clock and then I'm like, all right, well, I think it's time to wrap up.
We Can Do Hard Things
Cameron Esposito: How to Save Your Damn Self (Best Of)
Yeah. And the best way that I have found that out is that I now call people when I have something that I like to speak with them about or text them. That has created a situation where other people do that in my direction. Do you like it? And so I know it's not terrible. Oh, okay. And instead, I realize that it is someone trusting me. And it feels very, it's like an honor, you know?
We Can Do Hard Things
Cameron Esposito: How to Save Your Damn Self (Best Of)
Small, big adult. Yeah.
We Can Do Hard Things
Cameron Esposito: How to Save Your Damn Self (Best Of)
When you call me or text me, I feel it is an honor. Yes. And you have also called and texted me. And so I don't, for me, when it's going out, vomit. I want to die. But because I've experimented with that and other people have done it back, I know how it actually feels to receive it, which is like, oh, it's like amazing.
We Can Do Hard Things
Cameron Esposito: How to Save Your Damn Self (Best Of)
But I think I'm Abby's height, but that's not true. And we found this out in a green room once. Because I had my arm around Abby and I turned, there was a mirror and I said, literally, I think I said, and we're the same size. I don't know why that was the summary of our hangout. We'd been hanging out before the show. I turned, I said, and we're the same size. I think I am...
We Can Do Hard Things
Cameron Esposito: How to Save Your Damn Self (Best Of)
I love this conversation so much. First, I want to say this because when you were saying hiding in plain sight, that is so, thank you for giving me that language. That's so beautiful. And it's like, Yes.
We Can Do Hard Things
Cameron Esposito: How to Save Your Damn Self (Best Of)
I have recently been realizing it's like, I created like a little avatar, like a little fighter, like in the video game of life, I created like a little fighter who wears motorcycle jacket and holds a microphone to kind of go out in front of me. Like there's the real me. And then there's like this little, there's this it's a dis, it's a dissociative, like protection of my little self.
We Can Do Hard Things
Cameron Esposito: How to Save Your Damn Self (Best Of)
And it's actually very sweet thinking about like taking care of myself like that, especially at a young age, but then still now, like where there's somebody being like, I got you actually like you hang out back there. I got this one. And then that high haired standup comic goes out ahead into the world and takes care of my more tender self. Very sweet. It is.
We Can Do Hard Things
Cameron Esposito: How to Save Your Damn Self (Best Of)
I am hoping that other people know that. I'm hoping you two know that little soft guy. And I think you do. For a long time, I was hoping you wouldn't. Anyway, don't notice me. Yeah, don't notice me. But anyway, yeah, I was raised Catholic and I loved it. My sisters were raised Catholic, couldn't give two shits. I loved it. I thought that Jesus Christ had some cool stuff to say.
We Can Do Hard Things
Cameron Esposito: How to Save Your Damn Self (Best Of)
And I thought that philosophically, going in the temple, flipping tables, I thought that was awesome. And I was really into a sort of leftist, socialist, revolutionary Jesus who also is accepted by certain communities, like the Jesuit community, for instance. So I went to Jesuit college, and that's what I thought I was getting into when I became a theology major was, was like,
We Can Do Hard Things
Cameron Esposito: How to Save Your Damn Self (Best Of)
We're going to like fuck some shit up.
We Can Do Hard Things
Cameron Esposito: How to Save Your Damn Self (Best Of)
Nine inches shorter than Abby.
We Can Do Hard Things
Cameron Esposito: How to Save Your Damn Self (Best Of)
Exactly. Yeah. I started reading what the church had to say about women first. I like, even before I realized I was queer, I started reading what the church said about women, not the Bible, like the teaching, the stamped teaching that comes from The Pope and his friends. And I was like, oh, this is nothing that I agree with. And then also the spotlight papers were happening at that same time.
We Can Do Hard Things
Cameron Esposito: How to Save Your Damn Self (Best Of)
I lived in Boston. That's when the Catholic Church sex abuse scandal was really being talked about for the first time. And I was just like, none of this. And I left like I like left hard. I was truly like, I believe in all this. And then the next day I was like, actually, just as a correction to myself, none of it. I believe in none of it. And I'll leave it here.
We Can Do Hard Things
Cameron Esposito: How to Save Your Damn Self (Best Of)
And then that's how I operated for a long time. However, stand-up, as I've been saying, has always been spiritual for me. There's a feeling when I'm performing that I am actually connected to the audience, like physically connected through breath. We're all regulating our heartbeats. Mm-hmm. together in a room like that.
We Can Do Hard Things
Cameron Esposito: How to Save Your Damn Self (Best Of)
One time I was performing at a show and I felt like, this is in the book, but I was like, we're trees. We're all trees connected through a root system. And then afterwards, after the show, I hadn't said this on stage, Reggie Watts, who's the band leader for the James Corden show, was like, hey man, I liked that set, but what I love the best is how you were all trees connected through the earth.
We Can Do Hard Things
Cameron Esposito: How to Save Your Damn Self (Best Of)
He said that and I hadn't spoken about it. So my point is something spiritual is happening. Yes, it is. Yes, it is. But In the pandemic, when everybody was baking bread, what I was doing was reaching out to like eight different master's level theology programs, looking at their course descriptions, writing to specific professors and being like, can I take your classes?
We Can Do Hard Things
Cameron Esposito: How to Save Your Damn Self (Best Of)
Because I'm thinking about a career change. Maybe I'd like to be like a non-Catholic professor. priest. Almost all of these professors said yes, because when a standup comic says, I'd like to take your, I think that they were just genuinely curious. Yes, of course. What are you talking about? Sure.
We Can Do Hard Things
Cameron Esposito: How to Save Your Damn Self (Best Of)
So I took all these classes and one of the most impactful for me, I took them at a bunch of different institutions on a bunch of different topics. And I, One of them was at my college, at Boston College, where when they called me, they used to call me and say, do you want to donate to the school? And very early, I said, I will donate to Boston College when...
We Can Do Hard Things
Cameron Esposito: How to Save Your Damn Self (Best Of)
you apologize for the way that you treated me and the other queer students that went there and continue to go there. And they never called me again.
We Can Do Hard Things
Cameron Esposito: How to Save Your Damn Self (Best Of)
But I went back to BC because the head of the theology department when I was a student there, who is somebody I really loved and was close to, was teaching a class called literally just forgiveness. And so I wrote to him and I was like, hey, I don't know if you remember me. I was your student 20 years ago. Can I take this class? And he was like, I just was listening to you on NPR.
We Can Do Hard Things
Cameron Esposito: How to Save Your Damn Self (Best Of)
I followed your career. I like think you're awesome and please come take the class. And I did take it and we're still in touch and are now good friends. And I will say that like, it didn't bring me back into a place of being like the church rules. But what it did do is help me realize that like, these are all just people. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And that is a terrible thing to do to a young person.
We Can Do Hard Things
Cameron Esposito: How to Save Your Damn Self (Best Of)
Yes, it is. But like as an adult going back, I think I just got to see that these are people who are doing the best and sometimes somebody's best is pretty bad. And it's a bummer for someone to not have the experience and exposure to be able to like really live. the word that they say that they're living. That sucks for them. For them. What a huge bummer for that person.
We Can Do Hard Things
Cameron Esposito: How to Save Your Damn Self (Best Of)
Yeah, absolutely. Okay. I'm so glad we're starting by talking about this because for me, you know, a lot of stuff that I've been thinking about recently is also as a little gay kid, but also like a gender non-conforming kid. Even when I wrote, because some of this is from Save Yourself, that qualification as a little gay kid. But I think a lot of what I was talking about was gender.
We Can Do Hard Things
Cameron Esposito: How to Save Your Damn Self (Best Of)
Definitely. I think that for me, I was consumed by hatred. So, I mean, congrats to those people, places, and things that I hated because they got so much of my time and energy. Yes. That's such a win for them. This is an evolving thing for me. I don't think I've hit some finish line here, but it is that thing of like, what is forgiveness? Is it like, I send you on your way sweetly?
We Can Do Hard Things
Cameron Esposito: How to Save Your Damn Self (Best Of)
Or is it just like, Oh, you're wrong. Oh, well, you know, like, is it, is it like forgiveness? Maybe really lightness.
We Can Do Hard Things
Cameron Esposito: How to Save Your Damn Self (Best Of)
I think this is right. I can't even remember where I found this. I was really in this deep dive on forgiveness. This is like what I was spending a lot of my pandemic on is like, what is, I was so angry at so many people, places and things. And I was like, forgiveness, this is what I need to spend my energy on.
We Can Do Hard Things
Cameron Esposito: How to Save Your Damn Self (Best Of)
I came across this like Buddhist teaching that was like running away from something and running towards something. That's the same thing. So to need to leave and get the hell out of here, which is how I felt a lot of my life or to need to find the solution and get out. ever so close to that, which is the other half of how I felt in my life. It's like a panic.
We Can Do Hard Things
Cameron Esposito: How to Save Your Damn Self (Best Of)
It's just like an utter panic and just a lack of acceptance, right? It's like that things would need to be different. That's what I've been working on is less running towards in a way.
We Can Do Hard Things
Cameron Esposito: How to Save Your Damn Self (Best Of)
When I wrote this book, which was just a few years ago, that was not something that was on my mind the same way. I feel like When I came out 20 years ago, I was like, okay, well, first the word that I used was gay. And then eventually I was like lesbian. And then eventually I was like queer. And I still use all of those words.
We Can Do Hard Things
Cameron Esposito: How to Save Your Damn Self (Best Of)
And more deciding for yourself.
We Can Do Hard Things
Cameron Esposito: How to Save Your Damn Self (Best Of)
And also more just like sitting, just like sitting still. Cause that's not even a decision. It's more like, maybe there is no decision. It's kind of what I was talking about with the gender. I guess this is what, I guess this is what my body looks like. And it has this head. I guess that's true. I guess that's true. It's been true for 40 years. I guess it's true.
We Can Do Hard Things
Cameron Esposito: How to Save Your Damn Self (Best Of)
Is that from just now? Yeah. Yeah. You just did. I can't believe I was here when that happened. Just now. Yeah.
We Can Do Hard Things
Cameron Esposito: How to Save Your Damn Self (Best Of)
I'm going to tell you this. Okay. Here's the thing that I find the most annoying thing on the planet. This is, to me, well... Annoying is the right word because there are things that are like less just or more angering. So I'll just say annoying is the right word.
We Can Do Hard Things
Cameron Esposito: How to Save Your Damn Self (Best Of)
To me, the most annoying thing on the planet is the idea that we are somehow at a place that like being queer, being gay, being lesbian, being that's like totally chill. I know you have so many different types of listeners. So I mean this with love.
We Can Do Hard Things
Cameron Esposito: How to Save Your Damn Self (Best Of)
But I think the other thing that was going on when I was a little kid is that there's something... going on with me that I notice and that other people have always noticed that is not quite a woman and also a woman. I feel like gender fluid is a word that's making sense to me right now, but a lot of what I was writing about when I was writing about being a little gay kid is
We Can Do Hard Things
Cameron Esposito: How to Save Your Damn Self (Best Of)
This is often coming from the straight world that seems very surprised that this is still a thing, but I'm going to tell you that it's still stressful to move into a new neighborhood. It's still stressful to be on a plane. It's still stressful to wear a wedding ring. I don't actually think we're done now. less often am I being arrested for holding hands with my wife on the street?
We Can Do Hard Things
Cameron Esposito: How to Save Your Damn Self (Best Of)
Like that's a thing that used to happen and that is happening less often. So not that there is no change, but I do think that one thing that's very weird is like, Like I feel like when marriage equality happened and it's not just that like trans folks still are marginalized and murdered. It's not just, it's not like, it's that like marriage equality. Okay.
We Can Do Hard Things
Cameron Esposito: How to Save Your Damn Self (Best Of)
So we have like basic vague legal protections that like are not applied the same in every state, every city by every landlord. Like we didn't really get anywhere. We got somewhere. But when we got to that place, that place was still full of tricks. Yes.
We Can Do Hard Things
Cameron Esposito: How to Save Your Damn Self (Best Of)
So I think that's the thing that when you ask this question, I feel like the thing that keeps us all, I like being in the fight because I do think it's part of what makes us special is like, is the being in the fight. But like the queering of all things, when my straight sister died,
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Cameron Esposito: How to Save Your Damn Self (Best Of)
is in a world where people don't talk about her child's father babysitting their daughter, like then maybe we'll be at a certain place, but I don't think we're like at a place yet.
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Cameron Esposito: How to Save Your Damn Self (Best Of)
And then here's one thing I just want to make sure to revisit to your question about clearance clearance. Yeah. Glennon. I, I didn't get to date the people that I wanted to date when I was in my When I was like in adolescence and puberty, I like had a lot of boyfriends, which is like, I wasn't somebody who didn't get to date people, but everybody that I was dating, they were in the nicest people.
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Cameron Esposito: How to Save Your Damn Self (Best Of)
I love my friends. I was in love with my best friends, just a series of best friends. And I wanted to be loved by them, not necessarily noticed, but loved by them. And it was so heart-wrenching and it has been a formative part of my whole life is that like this feeling of wanting and not having a place for that to land that is receptive in the way that I would like for it to be.
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Cameron Esposito: How to Save Your Damn Self (Best Of)
Um, and I don't feel like you just got here and I'm pissed. I feel like that sounds so hard for anybody who like, I lived 20 years that way. Um, it sounds so hard to live longer than that. And I just like, I mean, it is really hard to not be yourself.
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Cameron Esposito: How to Save Your Damn Self (Best Of)
For any minute of time.
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Cameron Esposito: How to Save Your Damn Self (Best Of)
I basically am tearing up. This is really happening. I really, I love you and respect both of you very much. Same. And I just want to say, uh, thank you for the work that you've been doing the last couple of years, especially because, um,
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Cameron Esposito: How to Save Your Damn Self (Best Of)
Both of you always putting yourselves out there, but it is so intense, the amount of visibility that you've both been visible for a long time, but it does feel like an increased number of magnifying glasses. It does. And that does seem, again, really challenging. And so just- I see it and I love you.
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Cameron Esposito: How to Save Your Damn Self (Best Of)
is that I was like Robin Hood for every Halloween. And I collected Kens. And I was only ever Joseph when my sisters and I were doing the nativity play. And when I was in fourth grade, I auditioned for the male lead of the school play. And my school called home to ask my parents what they wanted to do about this. Big problem. And my parents said, was she good?
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Cameron Esposito: How to Save Your Damn Self (Best Of)
They were like, yeah, I mean, obviously I'm talented. So they let me do it, but the school wouldn't let there be just me. So I had to split the performances with a guy. There was like a guy that they, so they were like, we'll do this, but not totally. For real. That's so weird. But all of those were childhood experiences. And I think a lot of what I've been thinking about over the last,
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Cameron Esposito: How to Save Your Damn Self (Best Of)
even just a couple of weeks or months as things have been coming out in Florida and Texas about children and preventing teachers from talking to children about The actual world. I've never been different than this. And I don't even know what this is, but I've never been different than this.
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Cameron Esposito: How to Save Your Damn Self (Best Of)
I don't need to tell you two this because you've recently lived in Florida and I have not, but those are our people. That's right. I mean, I travel so much for work and I have traveled for, I've been doing this job for 20 years in some capacity.
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Cameron Esposito: How to Save Your Damn Self (Best Of)
And I often think that there's this weird, especially like in the last couple of election cycles, there's this like coastal elites versus like people that live everywhere else. And I will just tell you queer people are everywhere. I don't need to tell you, but for any of the listeners that might, not know this because maybe your job doesn't put you in every situation.
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Cameron Esposito: How to Save Your Damn Self (Best Of)
Career people are everywhere and like can't leave. Yeah. Also sometimes don't want to leave. That's where that person lives. Yeah. And so I think when I think about these folks, it's like, yo, we are, we are there. Like that's us, you know?
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Cameron Esposito: How to Save Your Damn Self (Best Of)
Yeah. And I mean, you know, because we've talked about this as human friends, I have a very complicated relationship with my bod. I mean, I think there's a couple different things going on. And some of this I'm actually experiencing in like such a hot way because I'm on a network TV drama right now. So I've done everything in comedy.
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Cameron Esposito: How to Save Your Damn Self (Best Of)
But when you're doing something in comedy, you can kind of be like... I'm joking. You know, even if you're like the love interest, you know what I mean? It's like, yeah, we're kissing, but like, you know, take it or leave it. Yeah.
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Cameron Esposito: How to Save Your Damn Self (Best Of)
You can have like an armor, but you have to be earnest in acting. Exactly. And so, so on a drama, a million little things is a drama. My character is supposed to be like hot enough that Grace Parks character is
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Cameron Esposito: How to Save Your Damn Self (Best Of)
somebody I've been watching on TV since Battlestar Galactica and, like, think is amazing, my character has to be hot enough that Grace Parks' character would want to slam them up against a wall for one of those classic TV makeouts that we all know so much about. Oh, my God. And my shirt has to come off and all this stuff.
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Cameron Esposito: How to Save Your Damn Self (Best Of)
And I had to believe that that is true, which has been, like, a really wild thing because I think even... I don't even think we're used to seeing somebody that looks like me on TV, period. Yes. But then especially that's not undercut by joking around. Yes. Yes.
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Cameron Esposito: How to Save Your Damn Self (Best Of)
And then the thing I've got going on with my body, which is that, like, I have a, you know, kind of a angular and sharp face and giant sticking up hair. And then I also have, like... D cup breasts and some Italian-ness going on. What does that mean? I think it's like, I'm actually supposed to live in like my, because I'm, I think I'm actually supposed to live in like Rome and be like...
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Cameron Esposito: How to Save Your Damn Self (Best Of)
airing laundry out the window like like uh-huh and all my children are supposed to be around it like body wise i'm supposed to be soft i want to be hard got it i like do a billion push-ups to be like please god damn it i totally get this make my arms the way i want my arms to be you know i 100 get this Yeah. And so this body stuff has been happening my whole life.
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Cameron Esposito: How to Save Your Damn Self (Best Of)
I think maybe a reduction eventually could be something that happens, but I'm not really looking to have top surgery. I'm not really looking to be on hormones or anything like that right now, which some people are an awesome ride for them. It's not really something I'm looking to pursue.
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Cameron Esposito: How to Save Your Damn Self (Best Of)
So it's just kind of like, I feel like a confusing presence, but there's also no change or finish line that's going to unconfuse people. Right. Nothing's coming down the pike that's going to make people unconfused. I said this like Instagram recently, but it's like I'm still I feel like a centaur. You know, it's like there's like half of this, half of that. And it's just like, here you go.
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Cameron Esposito: How to Save Your Damn Self (Best Of)
Such a great series of questions. Definitely on, right? Like definitely on because I have been cultured as a woman. So I have a woman's experience, but then also definitely in. And that's what I think. I will say there's something like, Oh, I mean, I hope this isn't othering, but like you and I, Glennon is who I'm talking to right now. We relate to each other in one way.
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Cameron Esposito: How to Save Your Damn Self (Best Of)
And then Abby and I, we relate to each other in a different way. Yeah. Like totally across a room, Abby and I are going to clock each other and like do, there's two options. You can do like a head tilt or you can do like a bro hug where we're going to like kind of tap each other on the upper wings. The bro hug is so interesting. But I'm never going to touch Abby's ribs, you know?
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Cameron Esposito: How to Save Your Damn Self (Best Of)
But if I hug you, I'm going to like hug you in a totally different way. Yeah. Oh my gosh. Because maybe Abby and I are like the same parts of a magnet. Yeah. And you and I are on a spectrum, maybe not so similar. Also doesn't mean we're so different. I don't think of it as like... Mask and femme. I don't think of it. It's not like there's like two. Right.
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Cameron Esposito: How to Save Your Damn Self (Best Of)
You know, but I do think that there is something going on because I because I can place people who are like me. So there's something going on. I don't maybe it's limiting, but. For me, it's like I want there to be some stuff that feels like me. Otherwise, I feel too floaty in space. Like when you were asking about pictures, when I see Harry Styles or David Bowie, that looks like me to me.
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Cameron Esposito: How to Save Your Damn Self (Best Of)
Maybe the rest of the world doesn't think that looks like me. I do. I think you're correct. I think that looks like me. So what is that? That's still something, right? Like that's who I want to dress like. And in terms of pictures that I've seen that look like me – I actually like to wear makeup. I don't really know how to put it on, but I like to wear makeup.
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Cameron Esposito: How to Save Your Damn Self (Best Of)
But makeup that like I literally have a makeup artist that I've worked with for a decade because makeup is a part of my job. And she and I really know each other well. And I've asked her to refer to lipstick as men's lip tint because it just makes me feel more comfortable. Sure. Yeah. I like to have my cheekbones highlighted and, well, not highlighted, bronzed. Okay.
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Cameron Esposito: How to Save Your Damn Self (Best Of)
And I like to have my nose bronzed and it's that stuff. It makes you more angular.
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Cameron Esposito: How to Save Your Damn Self (Best Of)
And I like to have my eyebrows filled in, which again is like a... way of sort of rebalancing the face. Sure. It's odd to think that makeup might make me feel more myself because I do identify as masculine center. But it does because it's like this sort of glam... Bowie version. And then I like to have my hair all big and sort of foppish.
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Cameron Esposito: How to Save Your Damn Self (Best Of)
Um, and I like to wear suits, but I like those suits to be sort of tailored. Yes.