Barry Berkman
Appearances
This American Life
339: Break-Up
His wife had a lot of money. They had worked out a deal, but they did it on their own without seeing lawyers. What would they decide? And what they decided was that in order for him, he was a musician, didn't have that much money, but in order for him to live close to her and to be able to see the kids, which they both wanted, she was going to give him enough money to purchase a small co-op.
This American Life
339: Break-Up
And it was great. They were both happy as could be. They were ready to do it. They were told to see lawyers. He came to see us. We were fine with it. And we said, sure, you know, this looks good. You did a good job. She went to see a lawyer. No way. How can you give him that much? It's not right. That's what her lawyer was saying. Absolutely.
This American Life
339: Break-Up
For the lawyer, it was too much because he had an argument which could theoretically end up giving her the greater part of her separate property. Right. She ended up listening to the lawyer. We ended up with a custody fight as well as a divorce fight.
This American Life
339: Break-Up
Really? Yeah, then they started fighting over the kids, which they hadn't fought over at all.
This American Life
339: Break-Up
What happened was the parties got so angry at each other that they started quibbling about everything. So if he had a gig and couldn't be home on time one evening, she decided he was an unfit parent. If she was spending too much time with her new boyfriend, which this guy decided wasn't appropriate, she became an unfit parent.
This American Life
339: Break-Up
So the parties ended up fighting not only about money but about the kids. Used up a good bit of her vast inheritance in the case. And in the end – She ended up buying them the same, you know, or similar co-op or in a similar neighborhood as the one she would have in the first place. But it took a couple of years and bittered everyone. And you had to think, was this worthwhile?
This American Life
339: Break-Up
I think often what happens is couples in conflict lose the ability to listen to each other.
This American Life
339: Break-Up
Not to agree with it, but at least to understand it. Right. That's the whole question. To recognize that your point of view doesn't necessarily invalidate your spouse's point of view.
This American Life
339: Break-Up
Yeah, I don't know about getting along. They don't have to try to get along. Certainly listening goes a long way.
This American Life
339: Break-Up
What happened? What happened was we had people who simply couldn't listen to each other. He became very, very busy in his own law practice. She felt she was losing him. Part of it was they couldn't find the time to talk to each other.
This American Life
339: Break-Up
I think the turning point came when they were talking about what to do with the house. And each one kind of recognized that they didn't really want to be living anywhere without the other person.
This American Life
339: Break-Up
Yeah. I mean, we're not going to get rid of the pain. The pain is there. Long marriages, the pain is there. I think going through this process enables people to get in touch with that pain and the real sadness that they're experiencing, which is sometimes covered up by their anger.
This American Life
339: Break-Up
I think going through the process where we reach – and it's not just the assets. The assets are usually relatively easy. Don't forget we have the kids and the parenting and decision-making. And that's often a lot tougher than – I think going through the process where people reach points of understanding where maybe for the first time they get a glimpse of where the other person is coming from.
This American Life
339: Break-Up
And so all of a sudden they realize, you know what, it's not necessary to demonize this person anymore. And when they have those moments of understanding, it goes a long way toward helping them get on with the rest of their lives, actually.