Anthony Scaramucci

Out of a Christmas present given to a child may come a man's career. It means your bodies are changing from boys to men.

No group has fallen further faster in America than young men. We tore up the old script for men, which was... breadwinner, head of household, etc. And we didn't replace it with anything. No one was talking about it. Into that void slipped some unproductive voices.

The world is full of cowards. We suffer from a pandemic of cowardice. People are absolutely and utterly cowards.

The problem with these unproductive voices is it starts positive and then it comes off the rails.

I want you both to react to this, because this is something I see in my children, which I'm trying to combat. And maybe you could offer me some advice on how to do it. I feel everything that you said is true. And I feel that there is an undercurrent of this lack of advocacy for men. They can't advocate for themselves.

In our first couple of episodes, we're going to talk with the author and researcher Richard Reeves, who has probably done more to shine a light on this problem than anyone else. I'm sure you'll find this as interesting as I do. Here's part one of my conversation with Scott Galloway and Richard Reeves.

And the other thing is, they can't express that they feel the way that you guys are. Das heißt, man kann kein 15-Jähriges nicht sagen, Professor Galloway, ich fühle mich aus der Equation verlassen. Oder ich fühle mich in einer Art, aber wenn ich mich beobachte und sage XYZ, bin ich nicht gehört. Oder Leute kommen auf mich herunter wie eine Menge Bricks. Ich glaube...

Wo ich mich hinbekomme, ist, dass viele von diesen Leuten, auch meine Kinder, Rekluse auf der Internetseite finden. Sie gehen auf die Internetseite, sie verbreiten ein paar Verschwörungstheorien. Manche von diesen Leuten denken, dass die Mondlandung nicht geschehen ist. Ich muss auf all diese Art von Nonsens, die auf der Internetseite läuft, hören.

Und ich fühle mich, als ob sie sich in eine Gefängnisbeschleunigung befinden, ohne die nötigen Geräte, um für sich selbst zu stehen. Habe ich das falsch? Und wenn ich es habe, erzähl mir, was ich falsch habe.

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Die Langsleeve ist perfekt für Reisen oder für Beratungen. Und ich habe gerade das Linenshirt in Bermuda gekauft. Und alle jungen Leute fragten mich, woher es kam. Meine Frau ist auch glücklich. Sie muss nicht mehr zehn verschiedene Shirts für mich packen. Ich habe die vorherigen Branden gekauft. But Quince holds its own easy. Same quality, way less money. My closet's cleaner, my fits are better.

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I'd like to introduce now my good friend, my dear friend, Scott Galloway, who will introduce Richard Reeves. But guys, thank you so much for joining me. I have a lot of questions. I have a lot of moms that are going to tune into this podcast. Trust me, I've been all over the speaking circuit talking to moms about this very issue. So take it away, Scott.

So Richard, do you think it's possible to insert this more broadly into the educational system, whether it's here in the United States or in the UK or more broadly the Western liberal democracies? Is there something that we could insert in the curriculum that you could get buy-in from teachers unions, women, progressives that provide some more awareness.

I know, when I was in elementary school, they told me not to smoke. Some of us listened and some of us did the very opposite. But just the awareness of the health issue probably slowed people down.

Die Idee, dass Jungs mehr schmerzhaft sind als Mädchen, ist eine dieser counterintuitive Ideen, die wir beachten müssen, wenn wir jungen Männern helfen wollen. Im nächsten Episode von Lost Boys werden wir die Gespräche mit Richard Reeves fortsetzen und darüber sprechen, warum es so schwierig ist, Menschen darüber zu sprechen. Können wir Jungen helfen, ohne Mädchen zu schmerzen?

Die kurze Antwort ist ja, natürlich. Warum sind die Probleme der Jungs nicht ein größeres politisches Problem? Warum ist es schwer für einige Gruppen wie die Demokraten, über diese Probleme zu sprechen? Und wir sprechen über eine geheimnisvolle Armee von Frauen, die demandieren, dass wir jüngere Männer besser tun. Thanks for joining me and Scott Galloway for this premiere episode of Lost Boys.

I hope you'll join us as we continue this conversation. If you'd like more information, please go to our website, www.lostboys.net. That's www.lostboys.net. Bevor wir losgehen, lasst mich euch etwas bitten. Dieses Thema ist so wichtig. Bitte teilt es mit jemandem, der es interessiert oder der es interessiert. Und lasst uns das Wort verbreiten.

Und bitte like, folgt, abonniert und rate Lost Boys, wo auch immer ihr eure Podcasts bekommt. Lost Boys is a production of Salt Media and Casablanca Strategy Group. Barbara Fedita and Keith Summer are executive producers. Tanya Salati is our researcher and Holly Duncan Quinn and Stanley Goldberg are editors. Special thanks to Christina Cassese and Mary Jean Rebus and Drew Burrows.

Ja, ich denke so. Ich möchte anfangen mit einem Statement, Richard, wenn du es nicht möchtest, und dich darauf reagieren zu lassen. I feel like things were more easily defined when we were growing up. Scott and I are contemporaries, both born around 1964. And I feel like we had some definition to our lives. You know, there were certain things that boys did.

Thanks for joining us for this new limited edition podcast we're calling Lost Boys. I'm Anthony Scaramucci and I've been really concerned about what's happening to young people, specifically young men today. I grew up in a blue-collar family with a very tough father. He wasn't always easy, but still there were a lot of adult men in my life that served as real role models for me.

There were certain things that girls did. And again, I'm not trying to be overly parochial. And I understand that we want to be accepting in our culture for varying lifestyles and so on and so forth. But Scott said something to me that really penetrated a few He said, you know, there's no advocacy for white males.

There's maybe 75 different affinity groups at NYU, but there's no white male affinity group. And not necessarily saying that there should be, sir. But I guess I'd like to ask you first for the statistic that Scott's giving. What happened in our sociology? What happened in our world, our culture that's led to this problem that we're all facing?

Ich will die Wunsch-Inflation, Richard. Ich meine, du kennst mich nicht, aber ich...

Ich habe ein sehr fragiles Ego, also fokussiere dich nicht auf Galloway. Finde einfach subtile Wege, um mich zu bedanken.

We knew what men were supposed to be and supposed to do. But I worry that today, between the morass of social media, the confusion about pronoun usage, and the whole change in the culture, it's a lot harder for young men to thrive. Young men are just doing much worse than ever before. Last summer I started talking to my good friend, Professor Scott Galloway, about all this.

But Scott, what Richard is saying happened for what reason? Through osmosis, a backlash to masculinity or male toxic masculinity? What caused this to happen? Or did it just happen naturally? Well,

Many of you know him as the professor, businessman, entrepreneur and podcaster. And it turns out he is very passionate about this issue. And the more we talked, the more we both felt, let's see if we can do something about it. So together we're starting this podcast, Lost Boys, to talk about what the problem is and then figure out what we can do about it.

I was once in a blue collar aspirational family over 30 years of bad policy. I'm now in a blue collar, desperational family. Okay. And so, so you have to, everything you just said at the top line is true, but we have to understand how we got there. OK, and this is a politician's lapse.

You know, you're raging moderates who used to vote for Jack Kennedy, Lyndon Johnson, their grandparents or their great grandparents, Franklin Roosevelt. There was nobody there, nobody there to help them. And so in comes Donald Trump in 2016 with his message. And they're like, hey, I'm a white, lower income voter. No one's speaking to me anymore. Right. He is.

I'm with him whether he shoots somebody on Fifth Avenue. So unless you're telling me you're going to find a leader that can go to the American people, explain to them what happened...

and then tell them why where we are now is wrong, and we have to reset the table for ourselves and reset the table for our lower and middle income people, but also stay integrated into the world, we got a problem because Trump doesn't care. He's very transactional. Trump is using Putin's talking points. Why is he doing that? Okay, I don't know.

I'm not going to say that he's an agent for Vladimir Putin, but he acts like one. So why is he doing that? And then what you're saying is absolutely true. 50% of the country says, I'm done helping the world. I need help in my own backyard. And my response to those people is, you're right, you do. But we also need to

help the world because if we don't help the world and a fire breaks out somewhere in the world, we're going to get drawn into it. You know, USAID, you mentioned that. Let me just point this out. When we were pumping USAID into Guatemala and into the lower part of the Yucatan Peninsula, we had less border traffic because it's like an ounce of prevention is worth more than a pound of cure.

You put one, two, three billion dollars into those economies and people have jobs and they have some satisfactory living standards. They don't run with their newborn baby 800 miles to the border. Right. But we're now going to cut the USAID. And so you're going to cause more problems, more stress.

But by the way, if you've got medical illnesses and you've got viral activity in Africa or other parts in the world, are we breathing the same air, Jessica? Are we? I think we are. So what's going to happen? What's going to happen? You don't want to stop the illnesses in Africa? You want them to transfer to everybody around the world? Is that what you want to do? Okay.

But again, it's the rich mansion holder. Is he going to help the world or is he going to charge them to go to a swimming pool? You got to make a decision and you got to educate your people. Yes, yes, we left you out. We left you out due to our ignorance and our apathy, but we've got to integrate you back in.

Look, Maria Bartiromo, a very good friend of mine, is still doing that show. She calls it Maria Bartiromo's Wall Street. And so the show had legs. And I got the education of my lifetime because I left Fox to join the Trump administration. Yeah. And so it's been the education of my life.

Okay, so there's so much to unpack there, but let's talk about Trump and the Russians for a second. So, Curtis Yarvin, who is a philosopher out on the West Coast, who believes that the democracy is obsolete, and Curtis Yarvin believes that we should no longer... have a democratic process. There should be some type of oligarchic monarchy.

Very smart people should run everything and leave everybody out. And obviously, you may remember this from the remains of the day, right? There was an allegory there where they were asking Anthony Hopkins to Butler questions. He didn't know the answers, and then the aristocrats scoffed at him and said, well, why would we give him the vote?

In the meantime, they're bringing the Nazis into the front door, right? And the allegory was, even though you may be rich and think you're smarter than Anthony Hopkins, the mundane butler, you need everybody. You need the democracy to have this sort of wisdom of the collective crowd, right? So there was an allegory. There was a warning there. But let's give Trump the benefit of the doubt.

Yeah, listen, I'm just glad that the president, when the president goes after me on his Truth Social account, he does use 11 days. And I think he should be the official scorer because some of these journalists that don't like me, they use 10 days. And that hurts my feelings, Jess. I don't want to have my feelings hurt. Why chip me at a 9.1 percent of my federal career?

This is a Curtis Yarvin thing. This is Peter Thiel, acolyte of Yarvin, J.D. Vance, acolyte of Yarvin, Elon Musk, the same, a follower of Yarvin. And Trump, who's less organized than them, more transactional, they've bandied together with him and they wrote something called Project 2025.

And they're going to dismantle and weaken the checks and balances in the system and expand the executive power due to this ideology that the democracy is obsolete. And Thiel's publicly said that to people. So that could be the best case. The worst case is that they've laundered money through Trump and they've laundered money through the Trump organization.

And he's tied to the Russians and he owes the Russians something and he's trying to deliver to them what they want. That's the worst case. OK, so that's Trump. As it relates to Walsh and Rubio, I understand that perfectly because I live that. And it doesn't reflect well on me as a human being, but I did live that. I was a George Bush, Mitt Romney, garden variety establishment Republican.

Actually more to it than that, Jess, I was a Rockefeller Republican. I was agnostic to social issues and I helped Andrew Cuomo with the gay marriage initiative in 2008, but I was sort of a right of center Republican as it came to business and free markets. And so now Trump wins or Trump is about to win and people like winning. And so I start to shade myself to accept Trump's point of view.

Trump is messaging something to blue collar people. I grew up in a blue collar family. I relate to that. And then Trump wins. And then six months into his office, he offers me a job. And then my ego kicks in and my ego and my pride. My wife hates Trump almost as much as Melania hates him. And I'm telling you, that's like way up here. OK. And she begged me not to do it. But I did it. Okay?

And that was ego-based. That was egocentrism. That was pride-based. And Marco Rubio wants to be the secretary. of state of the United States, second or third most important job in the world or most important job in the country. Mike Walsh wants to be the national security advisor. He served in the US military and he wants to be that.

And so what ends up happening, you start shifting your views because you want the power over your principles. I did it. I'm embarrassed to admit that to you. Now, we were fighting in the White House. I got summarily fired. I remember there was one day and I got fired about 24 hours after that.

Trump called me a deep stater and I laughed and I said, I haven't even been to Washington on a field trip from like elementary school. I mean, how could I be a deep stater? But he was implying because I was saying to him, hey, I, you know, we work for the Constitution. You know, he told Paul Ryan that he worked for him. Paul Ryan looked at him and said, I don't work for you.

I'm in a totally separate article of the Constitution. And these checks and balances are in place to preserve the sanctity of the system. It's the reason why we're so free and prosperous. Trump didn't want to hear it. And so Rubio and Walsh are now there. They're now there. They are in the barrel and they are going over the waterfall.

Yeah. Yeah. Well, I mean, he knows. He knows.

No, they could say, hey, my personal power, my personal ego, I'm going to subordinate that to the greater good. I'm going to get out and denounce what Donald Trump is doing. Or I'm going to twist myself into a pretzel. I'm going to speak to Caitlin Collins on CNN and my tongue is going to come out like a twisted bow tie and I'm going to lie on behalf of Donald Trump. That's what I'm going to do.

And they have to make a decision if they want to do that. Now, if you're telling me Rubio in eight years is completely morphed into Donald Trump light, I don't believe that. But I believe that he is selling pieces of his soul. McCarthy did it. McCarthy wasn't there, but McCarthy said, you know, I got to be the speaker of the house. He lasted 24.5 Scaramucci's. That's it.

But I got to be the speaker of the house. Uber Alice. It doesn't matter. OK, no, we should he he was calling Trump and saying, what the hell are you doing? We need help up here. There's an insurrection that you premeditated. McConnell and McCarthy could have impeached and convicted Donald Trump. They blinked and McCarthy told his buddies, well, he's finished.

Exactly. He lies about a lot of things, but he's got my employment tenure correct.

He's finished after a fiasco like this. He's finished. We don't need to do that. Let's let's stay in our partisan bucket. Did Barry Goldwater do that? Did Bob Dole do that? No, they didn't because they were from the World War II generation and the Constitution was more important to them. These guys' power... is way more important than the principle. And by the way, I get it because I did it.

I have to live with that for the rest of my life. I moved my principles to serve Donald Trump. And then I said, okay, that's a bridge too far. I have to tell people the truth about what I'm seeing. And I have to explain to people. Now, will Rubio do that? I don't know, but he's a politician. Politicians want power. You remember what Jack Kennedy said about the profiles of courage?

They said to him, congratulations, you won the Pulitzer Prize. Yo, thank you. But the book is so thin, Senator Kennedy. Why is the book so thin? He said, well, there's not a lot of courage out there. I could only find, you know, 10 or 14 situations. The book Profiles of Cowardice would have been the Encyclopedia Britannica. But I could only find a few stories. And that's why the book is so slim.

Yeah, well, I could say other positive things about him. Yeah, wait for the show.

Well, so I have this contrarian view on the situation because Musk is the richest person in the world and lit Trump up with $300 million during the campaign. And he has a $44 billion megaphone known as Twitter or X or whatever you want to call it. And I think Trump is afraid of Musk, if I'm just being brutally honest. You can even see it in the tentativeness when he talks to Musk.

Now, he wants Musk to burn out. He's told people inside his inner circle, who I still speak to, that Musk will get bored and Musk will burn out and go back to his job. Let's let him burn out on his own without us pushing him out. And Trump, I know his personality well, was projecting in the cabinet room. Anybody that doesn't like Musk, speak out or forever hold your peace, that's him.

He don't like Musk. He's trying to tell you that with his projection. And so Musk will burn out. You'll find that the Doge thing may save some money here or there. A lot of that USAID will get restored in a follow up Democratic administration. It'll have to be. It's just good sense for the American people. The American people have to understand it. But Musk will flame out.

He'll return to Tesla and X and SpaceX, et cetera. And Trump will not have a Pyrrhic debacle with him like he had with me or Kelly or Mattis or Mark Esper. He won't because he's afraid of him. He'll want it. And it's in their mutual best interests not to do that. You see what I'm saying? Yeah. But that will end, and I predict it will end quickly. I see Musk as Bannon.

And Bannon was President Bannon. Bannon was co-president with Donald Trump. And Bannon lasted eight months. He actually got fired on the same day that I did. He's such a baby, he didn't want to leave the White House with me. So he asked General Kelly, could he spend two more weeks in the White House before he walked out the front door? And so I think that this will fizzle sometime by Labor Day.

Musk will be back at his job. And Musk has hurt himself here. He hasn't helped himself. He's hurt himself. Because by inserting yourself in politics—by the way, I've hurt myself— This is your job, so this hasn't hurt yourself. I've hurt myself. You insert yourself. Warren Buffett was on CBS Sunday Morning News this week, and they asked him political questions.

He said, sorry, diplomatically, I'm not going to answer those. Okay, George W. Bush has said, hey, no, I'm good. Okay, so you hurt yourself because if you tell somebody what you think, 50% of the people don't like you. They stop buying your sneakers, quote Michael Jordan, right?

Hey, at least you're in the space. I want to be in Trump's head space and I want to be one of his irritants.

But Musk is hurting himself because people are slowing down their Tesla sales or doing certain things now because of his political leanings. And so I believe this ends. It doesn't end empirically. And Doge, like the Grace Commission under Reagan... Like there was something under Obama. Yeah. You know the guys. It was Alan Simpson-Bowles. Simpson-Bowles Commission. Okay. It didn't go anywhere.

Okay. This won't go anywhere. It turns out we do have some fat and double spend and maybe even possibly some fraud in the government. There's possibly some Medicare or Medicaid fraud. I get it. There's fraud in lots of different things. And we can trim it and maybe we will trim it. But the best thing we could do is to go back to what Bush and Clinton did, which was pay as you go.

We had pay as you go legislation in place. There were guardrails put up. This is the amount of money you can spend. If you're going to tax somebody, that's fine. You've got to cut spending. If you're going to increase social expenditures, you've got to raise taxes. And if we do that and we hold the line, the economy will outgrow the deficit. Okay, Bush and Clinton adhere to that.

We were running a budget surplus by the end of 2000. George W. Bush unclipped us from pay-as-you-go because of what happened with the Iraqi war. And by the way, he cut taxes in March, Bush, and we went to war in October. It was the first time in US history that we went to war without a tax increase. In fact, we had a tax cut, and that really started the wild trajectory of deficit spending.

So it's all healable. It's all solvable. But you need a long-term approach. You need a 15- or 20-year plan to right-size the deficit. You're not going to do it in two minutes. Okay, but your points are Musk is there. It's a good idea to cut things. It's a good idea to cut waste. But the way they're going about it Is hurtful. It's not going to help anybody.

You know, it's you know, Trump Trump was right about the border. Yeah, I know this is raging moderates. Trump is right about the border, but he did it in such a vicious way that it turned off a lot of Democrats. So when Biden got the job, he reversed the decisions were not Trump were more humane than Trump. But it was wrong. And the people poured over the border and the Americans got upset.

Go look at the exit point. Yeah. OK, so we've got to be very careful. Like they talk about crypto. If it's a Trump crypto reserve, then when the next Democrat gets in, they're going to rip it up and throw it out. It's got to be bipartisan. And we got to stop with the left and the right and look at what's right or wrong and just say, OK, is this right or wrong for our society?

And what Trump is doing right now with the UK is wrong. It's wrong for our society. It's wrong for the average American. Well, why is it wrong? It weakens the cause of freedom and liberality around the world. That's bad for our markets. It's bad for the risk profile of the American capital market system. It's wrong. We don't want to live in an imperialist world. We don't want to do it.

Living in an imperialist world will lead to a disaster. And what did we learn about the imperialists? Great Britain got hurt. India got hurt. Africa got hurt. Nobody benefits from colonialism. Trump wants to take Canada and Greenland. OK, let's take Canada and Greenland. Let's see how that goes for the United States.

No, it's absurd, Jess. And so for me, you know, I get it. Got a lot of riled people. Your network does a good job at riling those people. There's a good chant about nationalism and us first, and we're tired of carrying the world. But whether you like it or not, Roosevelt said it better than anybody. We're integrated with the world whether we like it or not. We are integrated. It's connected.

It's the rich person with the house. You're going to charge people to come into the swimming pool or you're going to help them with their college tuitions. Which family is going to do better? Well, what about your son here in the United States? Can you help? Yes, we have to help him too. But we have to think like that. We're 4% of the world's population, 26% of the world's output. Okay.

The more benevolent we are, the better it's going to be. When I was growing up, when I was in Europe in the 1980s. Yeah. People were buying me drinks. Ask American servicemen in Germany in the 1980s, Ramsted. They were getting drinks off them. Thank you for helping us. Thank you for being part of the cause of freedom and protecting us. Now you go to Europe and say, are you guys okay over there?

Why have you lost your minds? Why have you flipped into this proto-authoritarianism? Why have you done that? And the answer is, well, we have shitty Democratic leaders and we had a really bad intergenerational transfer of leadership. And so the orange man, bad, but a lot of people held their nose and voted for orange man because of what the Democrats were doing.

You gave this poor woman 107 days to try to figure it out. You know, Joe Biden and Barack Obama caused this. Barack Obama said to Joe Biden, no, you can't run against Hillary Clinton in the primary. OK, so Hillary Clinton wins. She doesn't go to Wisconsin. She goes one time to Michigan, twice to Pennsylvania. Trump outworks her and beats her in the Electoral College.

OK, now we're going to let Joe Biden run. OK, he beats a sitting president, but he's 78 years old, not 78 years young. He needs to drop out in September of 2020. Joe Biden is the Marco Rubio president. of the Democratic Party. You say, well, what do I mean by that? He let his ego get to him. I got the job. I want to stay in the job. Lady Macbeth, Shakespeare. Well, Joe, you can't remember people.

If Jessica Tarloff walks into your office, you don't remember her. Okay, well, that's okay. I want to stay in the job anyway. OK. And so he embarrasses himself with the June debate. Now the party's in flummox. They could have resolved that in September of 2023, had a formal primary process and had a young he or she Democratic candidate wipe the floor with Donald Trump.

Think about how close that election was.

OK. And it was they had an unmitigated disaster in terms of intergenerationalism. So when I'm in Europe, we've got two things going on. Yes, we have a Bozo movement of proto-fascism that we need to put down and we need to just help people economically. Galloway is right. Professor Galloway. It's an economic thing.

And we need to make sure that these people feel restored and aspirational and then they won't care about fascism. And we need to fix the democracy. We need to end gerrymandering, end Citizens United, right-size the deficit, do really smart, powerful things to help the American people.

Well, first of all, I maintain that that was a setup. And I maintain that the way J.D. Vance, Vice President Vance, went after President Zelensky was a setup and it was contrived. And I, you know, I watched it now several times. I think the one thing that President Zelensky did, which I wish he didn't do, Was he said, you know, you're protected by this ocean, but you'll see what will happen.

Chill the press. Trump hates it. And chill the press. You know, we were talking about Victor Orban and J.D. Vance has a love affair with Victor Orban. He was very happy with the way Victor Orban took over the schools and the press. And they want to chill the press and they want to intimidate people into not speaking. And you have Kash Patel has openly said he has an enemies list.

A lot of the enemies are the press. I got into trouble with Donald Trump in April of 2019. I wrote an op ed for The Hill and I said it was an open letter to the president. Dear Mr. President, the press is not the enemy of the people. And obviously, I went into the rendition of it being the force of the state and checking people in power.

But there's something else that's elemental to the free press, and that's our economy. We teach our second graders to speak and think freely. They go on to think creatively, and they create Facebook and Apple Computer, and they create things like Bitcoin and other... technology and great ideas and entrepreneurship.

If you tell somebody in the second grade that they can't talk about certain things and you'll put them in a reeducation camp if they talk badly about dear leader, then they can't create. They got to steal our intellectual property. And so I said the press is very important. Trump called me on Easter Sunday, 2019, last time I spoke to him. I thought he was calling me to wish me a happy Easter.

He was not. He was calling me to berate me. And he said that I was wrong. The press is the enemy of the people. And he wants to chill the press. My first meeting as White House communications director in the Oval Office was, can we break up Amazon? Excuse me? Well, you went to law school. Can we break up Amazon? I hate Jeff Bezos and I hate the Washington Post. Not anymore.

I want to break up Amazon. And I looked at him and said, no, actually, you can't break up Amazon. It doesn't meet the checklist that's in the Sherman Antitrust Act, not the thing that he wanted to hear. So he don't like the free press and his team doesn't like the free press and follow Victor Orban. What Victor Orban is doing, Trump would like to do.

And so now you've got guys like Bezos who, you know, Khashoggi got lost at the Washington Post. Democracy dies in darkness, something that Bezos' team came up with that he sponsored. And he's like, wait a minute. These guys could threaten my lifestyle. They could threaten me. They could threaten my family. And you know there's threats going on everywhere in Washington.

You're part of the press, so you know that the senators are getting threatened if they don't vote for certain cabinet members and stuff like that. Right. And so Bezos is like, I had a great life. I'm worth $200 billion. What the hell am I doing? Let me lock and load on Trump and spend some money on him. And let me show up at the inaugural, have dinner with him.

And let me tone down the Washington Post. I don't need this headache. And so, but that's the reason why he's a billionaire. And that's the reason why you and I are never going to be billionaires. OK, because because, you know, he's transactional and he's decided that the principles of the democracy not dying in darkness are not as important as him maintaining his lifestyle and keeping himself.

Maybe.

Maybe he will, but maybe he won't. And maybe maybe, you know, people are. People are funny in their own brains. You know, when I was compromising my principles to work for Donald Trump, do you think I thought I was compromising my principles?

And that obviously antagonized Trump. But the outcome of that would have been the same if Zelensky was Mother Teresa in that meeting and he was the combination of Keir Starmer and Macron and other people that have been president. lauded by the press for doing well with Trump, it's still, that would have been the outcome. They were trying to get that outcome. They were trying to eject him.

No, no, no, no, no. I was I was bullshitting myself. Let's just be honest about it. OK. And maybe Jeff saying himself, I've really had a change of heart politically and the woke ism.

Yeah. Bill, you should get him on your show. Bill is a raging liar.

Bill, you know, I'm a huge fan. I've been on his show many times. And I would say that Bill gets it. And I would say that, look, if I were the Democrats, which I'm not, and they would never accept this because, again, it's all ego based. But I would team up with the former Republicans. I would go to the Christie's and the Kissinger's and the Cheney's.

We really haven't, though, because the hard left didn't accept it. They derided it. And there were certain trips that were supposed to be on the campaign plane. And the hard left says, NFW can't bring Christie's or can't bring this person or can't bring that person. You know that and I know that. But what I would say is that democracy is at stake.

So let's have a pro-American, pro-democratic, pro-democracy party, and let's expand the tent. And even though you may not like Chris Christie, I do. I was one of his donors. But you may not like Liz Cheney. Hold your nose. And even if you don't like AOC, hold your nose, get in the boat together, and take out the Whig party. Let's go to who the Whigs were. The Whigs were

taken out by a new party formed in 1856 known as the Republicans. And they went after the abolitionists in the Whig Party, and they went after the abolitionists in the Democratic Party, and they formed a new party, and their first Republican elected president was Abraham Lincoln. And they destroyed the Whig Party. They weakened it to the point where it disintegrated. You could do that

to the MAGA party. You know, this party known as the Republicans was a hostile takeover by an insurgent third party known as MAGA or Trumplicans. They call themselves the Republicans. See, Trump couldn't run as a third party because he knew he couldn't win. But he had to take over one of the two traditional parties, which he did.

There's been a full decapitation and a full hostile takeover of that party. But the other people the Lincoln, whatever they are, merge them into the other party. They're all pro-democracy people. They all understand that the Constitution and that the democracy is more important than any one individual policy. I may disagree with AOC on XYZ or the Amazon situation along on Island City.

I may disagree with her, but so what? She's pro-democracy. I'm pro-democracy. Let's team up like we did in the 1850s and knock these guys out of the boxing rink.

Well, maybe.

The 1850s were a terrible time. Listen, James Buchanan, terrible president, caused the Civil War. A lot of things could have happened to not have that happen. You know, we could kill 600,000 Americans. The backlash... The John Wilkes Booth assassination totally botched the reconstruction.

I mean, we've gone through very tough times in this country as we're reordering the country to try to make it a more perfect union. But, you know, so this time we're going through right now pales in comparison to the Civil War or the advent of the Second World War. But let's fix it. But we got to stomach each other. Oh, I can't work with Anthony. He was once with Trump.

For some reason, they've aligned themselves with the Kremlin. They use Kremlin talking points when they're talking about the Ukrainian situation and the country, Ukraine. And that's fine. I don't agree with it, but that's them, right? So they went hard at him. Trump is a television producer. He even admitted that this is good TV and reality television, which Trump was a star of for many years.

You know, my 32-year-old son has a great line. He's like, hey, dad, you're killing me. The Republicans hate you because you left Trump. The Democrats will never accept you because you were with Trump. You're just killing my networking opportunities, dad. Maybe I'm getting close to the truth.

They don't put me in their tent. Trust me, they won't put me in their tent. They let me help Vice President Harris on the debate because I understood Trump and I was able to get some fun lines into the debate. But they won't bring me in because I'm not a Democrat.

Right, exactly.

You're helping Fox prosper. But by the way, you know, I applaud Fox for supporting AP. I applaud them for that. And again, you know, there's opinion people at Fox, there's journalists at Fox, and that's a point of view. And we should have that point of view and we should have a healthy, rigorous debate about it. But the Trump stuff has taken it to a different level.

Trump thinks like a Victor Orban. He doesn't think like a traditional American president. Okay, the presidents since Roosevelt were grounded in some bipartisanship and grounded in some democratic principles and were committed to the idea of containment and the promotion of freedom and raising living standards around the world.

Okay, they weren't, hey, it's my swimming pool and I'm now going to charge you to come into the swimming pool.

And to compound that, our adversaries are doing that to us.

You know, they've got a plan for us. And they're dumping lots of disinformation. Yep, 100%.

No, I appreciate it. You're great to have me on. Please give Professor Galloway my love. You know, I'm a huge fan of his as well.

Thank you.

You need conflict. And so this is the conflict setup. It was sort of like watching the real housewives of the Oval Office when they were doing this to President Zelensky. And I think it has real ramifications for the United States. I just want to give you this analogy, and I want your viewers and listeners to think about this. Let's say you have a blue-collar kid, and he rises in his family.

He's got a lot of poor people in his family. And he rises and he's wealthy now. And so maybe he buys a few cars or maybe he helps out with some tuitions or plays some emergency medical expenses. That's one family. And then the other family, the same thing happens. And the person builds this big, beautiful mansion with a swimming pool.

And then they say to their family members, okay, you can come over to my swimming pool today on a Saturday, but I'm going to charge you admission into my swimming pool. And America has to understand something about itself, whether they like it or not. The world sees America very different than Americans see America.

And so how does the world, at least when I was growing up in the world, the world saw America as a benevolent country, generally. The world saw America as a peacekeeping country, generally. Not that we didn't have failures in Vietnam or Afghanistan and so forth, but in general, We were trying to provide a security umbrella for the free world. And, you know, Trump doesn't understand this.

And I tried to explain it to him in 2016, but he dismissed me. Eisenhower didn't want them to spend the 2%. Eisenhower was the first head of NATO. And he told Marshall, don't let him get to that threshold. The less military spending around the world, the better we're a benevolent democracy. We'll spend. He didn't want Germany to rearm back in the 1940s and 50s. And so Trump wants them to.

OK, world has changed. I accept all of that. But let's not pretend that we didn't have a thought process involved. Jess, we unevened the trading system with the general agreement of trade and tariffs. Why did we do that? We were 2% of the world's population, 65% of the world's output in the late 40s. And we were trying to create rising living standards.

So we accepted goods into our country unfettered. And we were willing to accept some form of tariffs on our goods to protect those labor markets so that we could protect freedom around the world. Trump now wants to go to reciprocal tariffs everywhere. A lot of his trade specialists, I won't go into which ones because they'll be mad at me, don't like it.

They think a more surgical approach would be better. And so now he wants to hijack Zelensky. Zelensky's country was invaded. 1994, we entered into a security guarantee with Ukraine. They had the sixth largest nuclear arsenal. We're trying to end nuclear proliferation. Now we're trying to increase nuclear proliferation. We know that that can't go well, so we're trying to slow it down.

And so then we had something called Operation Porcupine, where we were providing all this anti-ballistic missile defense, anti-tank defense. Trump slows down the arms shipments. He creates space for Putin. Look, you know, we've got to be fair, right? We're raging moderates. Biden mishandled the 2022 situation. He mishandled it. They're too surgical. They should have said to Putin, look, I'm sorry.

That is a neighbor. You're trespassing on their land. You're going to get hit like what happened with Bosnia and Herzegovina. We're not going to hit you in your sovereign territory. But as your troops cross into their sovereign territory, you're going to get hit. That's our security guarantee.

So if you want to negotiate something and you want to have a 10-year impasse on NATO, or by the way, you want to try to get back into the G8, no problem, but you can't come into that territory. And he could have made a speech like Roosevelt made. Remember when Roosevelt said, well, my neighbor's house is on fire. I'm going to lend them my garden hose.

And then the people of the United States said, okay, that's Lend-Lease. We're good with it. Biden should have said, hey, look, I'm sorry, they're trespassing on our neighbor's yard. That goes well in Texas, by the way. You know, you're trespassing on your yard. We're going to take the gun out and shoot the guy. OK, no problem. Okay, but we didn't do that.

And we set the seed for this equivocation. And what we've done with our military the last 60 years is exactly that. We take measured steps, measured steps, and measured steps never work. And now we've got a good portion of Ukrainian territory taken by the Russians. And we have an American leader now that wants to, I guess, let that happen. I don't know, but I'm against it.

And I think we have to get... backbone in the country. We have to get organized dissent and we have to explain to the American people why we're against that. We're against that because we are for freedom. We're against that because 5.7 billion people live under totalitarianism. We're against that because we understand our history and we know if we band together, we can protect ourselves.

So we're against that. But if you're telling me now Trump wants a sphere of influence and he's going to, I guess, annex Canada and take back Panama Canal and buy or annex Greenland, and he's going to have a North American sphere of influence and

Putin's going to have a partial Eurasian sphere of influence with the Chinese, and we're going to be indifferent to Europe and Eastern Europe and the Western European democracies. Okay. But if we're doing that, we got to litigate that, Jess. We can't just say, okay, we're going to let that happen. How are we going to let that happen?

Well, it's very sweet of you to bring me on. And I haven't seen you in the flesh in a long time. We used to work at Fox together. People forget that because it's probably a decade now, but I hosted Wall Street Week for Fox Business. And we used to be able to share the set together on the Fox News channel and also Fox Business. So it's great to be with you.

Okay, so I think you're making a brilliant analysis of what's happening.

Just say it was brilliant. I do think it's a brilliant analysis, and I just want to go back a little bit, and I want to get your reaction to what I'm about to say. So I think our failure has to do with political service and public service indifference born from... the laxity of getting reelected. And just hear me out for a second. So Ross Perot enters the race in 1992.

He gets 19.9% of the vote as a third party, scares the life out of the Republicans and the Democrats. They strengthened a duopoly. They strengthen it. How do they do that? Tougher restrictions for third parties, tougher operational procedures, more signatures, lots more money. Can't form a third party the last three decades.

Secondly, that happens is they go after the gerrymandering with a vengeance. Both sides do. And I submit to you, are we in a real democracy if the politicians are picking the voters? I thought the voters are supposed to pick the politicians. And so now we have a 14% approval rating for the Congress, just above Kim Il-Jung, but we have a 95 plus percent reelection rate for the incumbent.

So it's almost like having a chef got horrific Yelp ratings for the restaurant, but the chef is still employed because it's the only restaurant in town. And so what ends up happening is they become very lax, very complacent. Third thing that happens is Citizens United. Lots of money gushes into these people from big business, oligarchs, big pharma.

Go look at the legislative agenda over the last 15 years. January 2010 was Citizens United decision. It's all skewed towards them. It's not skewed towards a little guy. And then let me weave in one more thing. And Bush would tell you this. George Bush would tell you he made a mistake. In 2008, we made a decision. to put a trillion dollars of tarp money into the banks.

What Bush would tell you is he accidentally created Occupy Wall Street and he accidentally created the Tea Party movement because there was nothing in there for the little guy. So the little guy said, what the hell is going on? You're saving the banking executive's job. I'm losing my house. Okay, and then those two movements morphed into the MAGA movement. What about me?

And this is Anthony Scaramucci.

And I've been inside the eye of the storm, 11 wild days in Trump's White House. I have seen how the sausage gets made and who's holding the knife.

We're not just talking politics. We're talking about power.

No spin, no filter, reporting the stories you won't hear anywhere else.

It's from two people that have ringside seats, occasionally center stage, in a country where court cases and campaign rallies share the same parking lot.

Oh, come on.

And this is Anthony Scaramucci.

And I've been inside the eye of the storm, 11 wild days in Trump's White House. I have seen how the sausage gets made and who's holding the knife.

We're not just talking politics. We're talking about power.

No spin, no filter, reporting the stories you won't hear anywhere else.

It's from two people that have ringside seats, occasionally center stage, in a country where court cases and campaign rallies share the same parking lot.

And this is Anthony Scaramucci.

And I've been inside the eye of the storm, 11 wild days in Trump's White House. I have seen how the sausage gets made and who's holding the knife.

We're not just talking politics. We're talking about power.

No spin, no filter, reporting the stories you won't hear anywhere else.

It's from two people that have ringside seats, occasionally center stage, in a country where court cases and campaign rallies share the same parking lot.

And this is Anthony Scaramucci.

And I've been inside the eye of the storm, 11 wild days in Trump's White House. I have seen how the sausage gets made and who's holding the knife.

We're not just talking politics. We're talking about power.

No spin, no filter, reporting the stories you won't hear anywhere else.

It's from two people that have ringside seats, occasionally center stage, in a country where court cases and campaign rallies share the same parking lot.

Well, I mean, all of that, but I want to delve into a little bit of the Secret Service and some of the men in that service. Clint Hill is still alive. He was riding alongside of Jackie and John Kennedy on the 22nd of November of 1963. And we'll talk about what he saw. We'll talk about what other events. agents have written about recently.

And of course, now that Donald Trump is releasing the JFK assassination files, I think there'll be a lot to talk about there. I think people coming to the show are going to learn things that have never been said or heard before.

General sale for this event will be open to the public on Monday, the 24th of February at 10 a.m. U.K. time. We'll send out the link to our mailing list in the morning, as well as posting it on the Rest Is History and the Rest Is Politics U.S. 's social media feeds.

Well, I'm probably going to Guantanamo for many reasons, Dominic, but that would be probably the top one. But anyway, we hope to see you there. I think you'll learn a lot. There'll be a lot of insight we'll provide and also provide great context on American and British and global history.

You

Goodbye.

We have, you know, and thank God I'm not British because the Brits actually admire my American attitude about life. OK, but in any event, OK, it'd be the first time on stage with Dominic. I am very excited. We're going to be doing a show on U.S. political history called The Rest is Assassinations.

From Lincoln to JFK, but Dominic and I both know on the 30th of March, 2025, it's the 44th anniversary of the attempted assassination on Ronald Reagan. So there's not only assassinations here, which are terrible, but there's an attempted assassination, several of them, Dominic, right, throughout U.S. history.

And so we're excited to go through this and what the impacts were on American history and global history.

And this is Anthony Scaramucci.

And I've been inside the eye of the storm, 11 wild days in Trump's White House. I have seen how the sausage gets made and who's holding the knife.

We're not just talking politics. We're talking about power.

No spin, no filter, reporting the stories you won't hear anywhere else.

It's from two people that have ringside seats, occasionally center stage, in a country where court cases and campaign rallies share the same parking lot.

And this is Anthony Scaramucci.

And I've been inside the eye of the storm, 11 wild days in Trump's White House. I have seen how the sausage gets made and who's holding the knife.

We're not just talking politics. We're talking about power.

No spin, no filter, reporting the stories you won't hear anywhere else.

It's from two people that have ringside seats, occasionally center stage, in a country where court cases and campaign rallies share the same parking lot.

And this is Anthony Scaramucci.

And I've been inside the eye of the storm, 11 wild days in Trump's White House. I have seen how the sausage gets made and who's holding the knife.

We're not just talking politics. We're talking about power.

No spin, no filter, reporting the stories you won't hear anywhere else.

It's from two people that have ringside seats, occasionally center stage, in a country where court cases and campaign rallies share the same parking lot.

Well, I mean, all of that, but I want to delve into a little bit of the Secret Service and some of the men in that service. Clint Hill is still alive. He was riding alongside of Jackie and John Kennedy on the 22nd of November of 1963. And we'll talk about what he saw. We'll talk about what other... So, yeah.

Well, I'm probably going to Guantanamo for many reasons, Dominic, but that would be probably the top one. But anyway, we hope to see you there. I think you'll learn a lot. There'll be a lot of insight we'll provide and also provide great context on American and British and global history.

We have, you know, and thank God I'm not British because the Brits actually admire my American attitude about life. OK, but in any event, OK, it'd be the first time on stage with Dominic. I am very excited. We're going to be doing a show on U.S. political history called The Rest is Assassinations.

From Lincoln to JFK, but Dominic and I both know on the 30th of March, 2025, it's the 44th anniversary of the attempted assassination on Ronald Reagan. So there's not only assassinations here, which are terrible, but there's an attempted assassination, several of them, Dominic, right, throughout U.S. history.

And so we're excited to go through this and what the impacts were on American history and global history.

So as an example, Prime Minister Carney, who's a personal friend of mine, I worked with him at Goldman 35 years ago, he would tell you that auto parts are coming across the border back and forth at least six times before they get installed in the car. You can't charge 25% tariffs each time it moves across the border. And so we've integrated the economies. If you said to me, we needed to

right size elements of the tariff system to protect American working class families? I would say resoundingly yes. Have you said to me, we need surgical tariffs where we need to go through the tariff system and say, okay, the Chinese are dumping this product into our market. They are subsidizing it with their government's help and they're giving an artificial price

They went more delicately through the list. And and this is the thing about Donald Trump that we have to acknowledge. There are kernels of truth in what he's saying. It's the implementation of the policy that's flawed. But if you're telling me we have a problem at the border. Milton Friedman would have said years ago, well, if you have a welfare state and the U.S.

does have one, you have to protect your border because free market forces dictate that people will cross the border. And so I think what happened is because of anti-Trump sentiment, President Biden reversed all of that. through executive action. It was more of a anti-Trump statement than it was real thought out policy. And that hurt the Democrats in 2024.

But there was a kernel of truth to what Trump was saying. It's more about the implementation and the heavy handedness. And again, same thing with the tariffs. The president is correct that we need to bolster living standards in America for lower and middle income people. the president is correct that there have been elements of the trade system where we've been taken advantage of.

The World Trade Organization let China in with extraordinary emerging market latitude, extraordinary. And they never corrected it as China rose. And I'll say something, Governor, that does not reflect well on me, but I'll share it with you. At the age of 35 in 1999, The World Trade Organization, there were protests in Seattle. Do you remember these?

I don't know if you would- No, I remember, of course. Okay, and so Ralph Nader was up there. Working class families were up there. They said, please, please do not let the Chinese into the WTO. And you'll cause a hollowing out of our manufacturing. You'll ruin our middle-class aspirational jobs. Please don't. I was a young Wall Street person at the time.

And I had bought into the Wall Street narrative that this was going to lower the cost of capital deployment, lower the cost of labor, and was going to be generally good for the economy, the stock market, and generally good for people. And it was an advancement. It was progress. But those workers were right, Governor Newsom.

I got that wrong at age 29 because the aftermath of what happened 25, 26 years later is this dilemma, this systemic rise in populism. Moreover, when President Bush implemented the TARP money, He made a very big mistake, and I think he's willing to admit it today. He put a trillion into the banks.

If he put $7.50 into the banks, sir, and maybe $2.50 into the lower and middle income people, you maybe wouldn't have had the Occupy Wall Street movement. Maybe it wouldn't have morphed into the Tea Party movement. You see, there was an unfairness in the policy that created a prairie fire of populism.

I mean, anything is possible, Governor Newsom, and I'm generally an optimist about life, but I'm pessimistic about this. And just hear me out for a second, and I'd love to get you to react to it.

we've had a bipartisan commitment to this economic geopolitical footprint we've had a bipartisan commitment on containment the nato security umbrella the free trading mechanisms around the world america absorbing some of that because we're the richest nation and he's ending all of that he's ending all of that very abruptly and he's doing it in a way that's raising risk premium around the world so said differently if i was a european leader

I'd be like, OK, well, it's not just Donald Trump. 50 percent of the people voted for him. There's something wrong in the body politic in the U.S. now that's going to make the U.S. a little bit more arbitrary and a little bit more capricious in its decision making. Unless you're telling me we can find a transformative post-partisan leader that can galvanize the Americans again.

If I'm in Europe, I'm like, okay, I got to have other options now. And I think the market is signaling, even if Trump tomorrow says, okay, EU, here's this deal. And China, here's that deal. And, oh, by the way, I waved my beautiful magic wand. Here's the new tablet coming down from Mount Stupidity. And here's what we're going to do now.

I think he's upset the apple cart enough where you're now creating different sets of outcomes and different sets of decision-making from other responsible political leaders. Do you think I'm going too far in thinking that?

No, that didn't. I think what has surprised me, frankly, is the willing sycophants, the willing enablers. There's usually people of conscience in the room that say, whoa, that doesn't work for me. You know, John Kelly, John Kelly fired me, Governor Newsom, on the 31st of July.

uh, 2017, we've become very close friends and, uh, and, uh, you know, we socialize together and my wife Deirdre and Karen and him hang out together. Uh, and we talk about the dilemma of working with Donald Trump, you know, and, and this is a weirdness to him. There's like an anti, there's a conflict of voice.

I, I've been dying to ask you this question since I saw you at the night of the debate where you and I were at September together in Philadelphia, both they're supporting vice president Harris. Uh, When he attacks you, the president, President Trump, he attacks you as a keyboard-worrying bully.

But then when he has to face you in person, and thank God you're a tall SOB, because I'm not as tall as you. At least you can stand off to him face to face. He never attacks you face to face. Oh, Gavin, you're a great guy. You know, this sort of stuff. What do you make of that, sir?

I hate to say this to people, but he's a very charming guy in that interpersonal interaction.

But, sir, when he goes off on you on Truth Social with the nonsense name calling, and then you see him like a week later or a day later in California, he acts like it didn't happen, right?

Yes, but I don't see how we get undamaged from this. You know, like, you know, here's the cruel admission I knew how bad it was. I endorsed President Biden in 2020. As you know, I helped on debate prep and tried to act as a surrogate for the Vice President Harris in 2024.

This is an existential crisis, sir. This is a postpartisan thing. My message to your party is is open the door, expand the tent. Remember what Lyndon Johnson said, let's get all the elephants in the tent pissing out. Let's not have elephants outside the tent pissing in. Make it a pro-democracy movement. Make it a pro-America movement. Make it a post-partisan transformation so that we can beat

The current Whig Party, which the Whig Party is the MAGA party. It's at a step with America. They can beat us if we are dissembling. They can beat us if we're internecently fighting with each other. But if we expand the tent and some of your friends on the liberal side don't like me because I was with Trump. I understand that. But hold your nose. OK, hold your nose.

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

Governor Newsom going for the silver fox look. Okay, this is Latin American dictator brown, Governor, if you ever need the color.

Well, I was using Cuban leader black, but it looked terrible on TV, so I lightened it up a little bit.

Well, you definitely don't want to turn orange, especially these days. That would be a bad color for both of us.

I knew it would be bad. The thing that you always prayed for is that he would have some people around him slow him down. If you talk to Mnuchin or you talk to Gary, Gary Cohen, former Goldman Sachs president, chief operating officer, this was the potential implementation in 2018. They slowed that down. Kelly slowed it down. Mnuchin.

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All of those guys did not want this, and so he wasn't able to do this. Now he has willing accomplices. How do you want me to address this? Governor Gavin, how do you want to talk?

Operation Red Map, sir. You know the coinage of that term, right? They said, okay, we got to get into those state legislatures. They'll help us gerrymander these districts. And we'll, even though we're a minority party in terms of registrations, let's organize and we'll beat these guys by using the tyranny of the minority.

Right, the founders were worried about the tyranny of the majority, but the Republicans organized and asserted themselves using the tyranny of the minority. That's a fascinating point that you're bringing up.

Let me give you three things. Some of them are going to be controversial for your party. You're probably going to get some negative press me saying this on your air. I apologize to you in advance, but I hope the people listening will be open-minded because I want you to win. You have to slay this MAGA party. This is no longer the Republican party I lived in, sir.

This has been decapitated, hostile takeover, third party insurgency has changed this into a Frankenstein monster, a Frankenstein monster of anti-democracy. So we have to beat them. So if I would say, let's leave off the table of the open primary. It didn't happen. I think we would have liked to have seen that starting in September of 23.

And that would have built up a case and somebody would have got to the top of the packing order. That would have fortified that candidate. But in the 107 days, I'll just make three predictions. Very close observations. Number one, the vice president is a very competent, very capable leader, but she was not a great risk taker in that moment.

Unfortunately, to rise to the presidency now, it requires exogenous risk. If you've got a group of handlers around, you say, don't go on Rogan, don't go on this person, don't go on that person. Fox News one time, not 25 times. If I were her, I would have said, hey, every morning I'm going to be on Fox News.

Trust me, you can't. You can't go into politics without getting some shit.

I'm going to eventually chum up to those anchors that hate me, and I'm going to get some messaging out there where people will see that I'm not the demon that they're trying to present me as. You see what I mean? I would have said, hey, Fox News, I want to be on every day. These podcasts that people are excoriating me, these alpha bro podcasts, at least once or twice a week.

Okay, so she was not a risk taker. That's number one. Number two, Robert Caro, in his books on Lyndon Johnson, which I think are some of the best biography ever written, he describes Humphrey's situation with Johnson. He didn't break from Johnson. Johnson comes out of the race in 68. Humphrey waits till October 1st. To break from Johnson. He's not even willing to do it then.

He's such a gentleman. Johnson brings him into the Oval Office and says, you got to break from me. You want to blankety blank on me on the Vietnam War, blankety blank on this, blankety blank on that. You got to do it. And so he starts that process in October. It's too late.

And unfortunately, the vice president's respect for Joe Biden, that infamous line that she says on The View, I can't think of anything I would have done differently, is harmful to her because we're in an anti-incumbency moment. And she needed to do what Johnson suggested to Humphrey. But in Humphrey's case, it was too late, sir. The polls were closing.

He was catching Nixon when he made that break, but it was too late. And then the third thing, And I know this is really going to drive everybody crazy. So you have a fire extinguisher behind you in case your hair sets on fire because the third thing is really bad. You're okay?

Let's hear it. You're in a flame retardant vest there? Let's do it. Let's hear it. The third thing is how on God's earth do you let Bobby and Elon out of the party? How do you guys do this? Okay.

I'm sorry. Interesting.

Okay. But how do you guys do that? Okay. Bobby is a Kennedy. Yeah. Whole family's tied to the party. Yeah. He actually wants to stay in the party. And I know this because he endorsed the back of my Bitcoin book. Okay. And I know Bobby forever from New York. How do you let Bobby out of the party, okay?

And even if you don't like Bobby or you think he's a kook with the vaccines, you open the tent, keep him in the party because he's got that bro connectivity that costs you a few points where you don't want them. And Elon, I don't care what the UAW is saying or whoever told Biden to disinvite Elon from the electric vehicle summit.

I don't know who it was, but President Biden should look, man, I'm sorry. The guy's the richest guy in the country. He's got a $44 billion bullhorn and he's coming to the party.

You don't have to sit next to the guy and you may not like him because he doesn't have a union shop, but he's our guy and we got to keep him in the party. And so those two guys, they hurt you in Pennsylvania. Elon hurts you in Pennsylvania. Yeah. He hurts you in the Twitterverse or whatever you want to call it with the toxic algorithm. Yeah. And Bobby hurt you.

And I'm just submitting, again, this is the indictment of your party, if I can be bold enough to say this to you respectfully. Open the tent. Hold your nose. If somebody like me wants to help you, invite me in. I will try to help you. Get those guys back in the party. I know you want to cancel them now. You want to blow up Tesla vehicles and so on and so forth. Get Elon back.

Okay, calm down, calm down. He's shooting rockets into space. He's got an environmentally friendly vehicle that he's made, which you guys used to buy in droves. Let's calm him down. Let's disengage him from where he is right now. Get him back to neutral because those three things hurt Harris. No risk-taking, no break from Humphrey, and how the hell do you let Bobby and Elon out of that party?

They were Democrats.

Governor Newsom, they were Democrats.

What he did in Lancaster County with the Amish was, you know, to quote him because he says he's on the spectrum, okay, it was on the spectrum beautiful. He got them all in vans. He told them that the unpasteurized milk that they were pumping out of their dairy farms was going to be destroyed. It was misinformation. He gets a red card for that.

He says that Biden's going to come after them with that. And then he gets them in a van because he can only take the horse and buggy unless they're not driving. And he drives them over to the voting. And there's 99,000 of them vote for Trump. And I'm telling you, this is a game of inches. You know this. I know this. I've worked on six presidential campaigns in the last 24 years.

It is a game of inches. It's a game of risk taking. It's a game of calculated risk taking. But when you got guys on your team that you may not like. Don't be so righteous. Bring them into the tent. I was told that some of the campaign guys wanted me on the campaign plane, and there were hardcore lefties that were like, NFW with that guy. He wants to work for Donald Trump. Guys, give that up.

Release the anger, and let's study the existential threat and work together.

No, I don't think it was this level of unseriousness. I think in the first administration, it was he wanted to tack on across-the-board tariffs and he wanted to put up a border, a financial border, if you will, around the United States. Remember, he wants to wall the United States off literally and physically from the rest of the world.

And with your insight- Because it's not even Republicanism, sir. It is a perverse form of- populism and I'm going to give you a new word. Okay. And I didn't know the definition of this word, but I know it now. Do you know what the word autarky means? A-U-T-A-R-K-Y. Do you know what that means? You got me. You stumped me. What is it? Okay. So I didn't know what it meant either. Okay.

Someone had to explain it to me. A-U-T-A-R-K-Y. It means an autonomous economic system. Okay. So Trump wants to create an American autarky. He wants to wall us off literally and physically from the rest of the world. He wants to disengage America. It would be as if Huey Long or Charles Lindbergh beat Franklin Roosevelt and created the America First movement in the 1930s.

This is what this guy wants to do. OK, and I'm telling you, this is an existential threat to our children and our grandchildren. Put down the swords. Let's work together. Let's figure out how AOC and Bernie can build this coalition alongside of whatever you're representing. And frankly, alongside of whatever Christie, myself and Kissinger and Cheney are representing. OK. And let's lock forces.

Remember, the Whigs got destroyed by a new party called the Republicans. They got destroyed by that party because they created a new party in 1856. They went after the abolitionists that were Democrats, and they went after the Whigs that wanted abolition. And they created this new party, and they got a guy named Abraham Lincoln elected, the first Republican president.

The Trump doctrine and the reason why he goes back to McKinley During President McKinley's administration, 97% of what we produced, we consumed inside the country. And so Trump's attitude is that the world has freeloaded off the U.S. and that we need to wall ourselves off literally and physically from the rest of the world. Now, that... misunderstands how actually the world works.

The new Whig party is the MAGA party, which has the Republican name in name only. They're the true rhinos, Governor Newsom. They're MAGA Republicans in name only. Let's team up. And let's build a coalition that is a plurality, a majority to restore confidence in America globally, to restore confidence in America economically.

And then let's, once we look at the burning of the house, let's fix parts of the house with maybe some constitutional amendments, maybe some policies or laws that will benefit all of us and make us safer in sort of a new American social contract.

And the GI Bill took Jewish tailors from the Lower East Side and turned their children into doctors. It took Italian construction workers and turned their sons and daughters into accountants, lawyers, or doctors. We had an ethnic middle class movement.

driven mostly by Democrat policy in the post-World War II era that gave opportunity to people that didn't have it in the old country and didn't frankly have it in America prior to that. That's the idealism of your party. That's the Jack Kennedy vision of your party.

Well, I mean, it's such a great question on so many levels and so many different layers, but I'll just add one thing to it. While The conservatives are dominating podcasting, and let's be honest, they are dominating cable news, mostly through Fox. They say the corrupt mainstream media is against us. But in the meantime, the media, it's almost like the typewriter business, right?

The big media is dying. OK, and the reason why I applaud you starting this podcast is you're going to reach a lot of people because they can download you on their phone. They can go for a walk. They can hear what you're saying. And they'll say, OK, I like that one. And then they forward it to five of their friends. It's like that old shampoo commercial.

And so what I would say to the Democrats, start over. Okay, be the engineers. And you remember that movie, Brian Grazer, Ron Howard, Apollo 13, Tom Hanks plays Jim Lovell. Be the engineers that go into the room and say, here's the tools on the table. We have to reinvent ourselves. Forget the mainstream media. Forget the old totems. Let's be engineers.

And this is the problem we're all having. We need somebody like you to organize dissent and explain to people that what Trump is doing is actually catastrophic for our economy. What he's doing would take us back to the 1930s with the Smoot-Hawley Act, which steepened a recession and turned it into a Great Depression. Trump could touch off deflation, Governor Newsom.

Let's be scientific marketing engineers, media engineers. How would we reinvent ourselves today? And what would we do? What podcasts would we have? What business podcasts would we have? What messaging do we want out there? How do we stop attacking each other? The Republicans have done a very good job of not attacking each other. I find it curious that Bannon goes after Musk.

Because I know Bannon well. I worked with Bannon on the 2016 campaign. He's going after Musk for many different reasons, but he knows that Musk is not pure MAGA. He knows this. He knows Musk is reacting to what happened to him in the world of the blue world. He moved into the red world or the dark MAGA world, whatever he calls it, because of what happened to him in the blue world.

So get to the table like the engineers on Apollo 13. Let's start from scratch. Let's have a summit. You call the summit. I'll be there. And let's start a laboratory of ideas to beat this back because the average American is kind. The average American does not want to play the victim. The average American is aspirational. And the average American believes in lifting the boats of others.

The Marshall Plan passed because the average American looked at the landscape of the world and said, the world needs this. And if it's good for the world, it's gonna be good for us. And you know, Governor Newsom, you're at your best when you're helping other people. Americans know this. Americans get their best feeling on the side of giving. Donald Trump has set up an America

And I'm going to give you these two allegories. You have one blue collar family where the young man in the blue collar family rises to great success and he pays for some tuitions. Governor Newsom, he he buys a car. He helps people with medical expenses because he's the one rich person in the otherwise blue collar family. Imagine the second family where the same thing happens.

But the man or the woman builds this beautiful swimming pool and this great mansion. And then they charge their family members to come into the swimming pool. Hey, Gav, you want to come to my swimming pool? It's 25 bucks. Which family is going to do better? Which family? And the Democrats know this in their bone marrow. Get back to the table. This is what we represent.

This is the party that built the United Nations. This is the party that laid the framework at Bretton Woods for the IMF and the World Bank. By the way, globalism, I maintain, just has bad marketing because the globalism has led to rising living standards here in the United States, elsewhere, better health standards, less pestilence. It has actually worked.

We just got really bad marketing people involved with this. Get back to the table and let's brush up on this. I think the counter-narrative would blow the doors off these people. They are in the minority, by the way.

And if you touch off deflation in a society like ours, it's absolutely catastrophic. Because remember, we're in a debt-laden society. So let me just give this example. If you have a $250,000 mortgage and an $80,000 job in a deflationary society, your salary is going down alongside the goods and services, but your debt's not going down.

Well, I mean, so you know from California, these guys are Curtis Yarvin, post-democracy sort of people. They believe in a monarchical structure. That would be Thiel and Musk and J.D. Vance is an acolyte of that, which is why they put him in there. It's interesting. I really feel Trump made that decision. distracted by a bullet that whizzed by his ear.

He only had 72 hours to compose himself prior to the convention. And I think he made that decision. I don't think he likes Vance. He's been pretty clear when he says, is he my successor? He says no. He slammed Vance after the Margaret Brennan Sunday morning show where Vance said, we're going to pardon the nonviolent Jay Sixers. Trump got pissed at him and You know, pardoned everybody.

So you remember that scene in Fargo with the wood chipper? Vance is going in the Donald Trump wood chipper, just matter of time, because he's too close to power. Trump doesn't like anybody near his spotlight, as you know. And so he'll do to Vance what he did to Pence. So I'm not as concerned about... Vance as other people. The third term thing, I do believe people should take seriously.

He's 82 when he aspires to that third term. That's good for America that he's that old. But I think you have to take that seriously. And you have to take seriously that the stuff that he's doing to weaken America, You know, I'm in the category that you'd have to have at least a 5% probability that he tries to call off an election.

Other people will find that incredulous, but I think you got to get it out there because there's a law of reflexivity, Gavin. If you get that out there, people will start socializing it and then they'll plan themselves to attack that. If I talk to somebody and say, well, that's never gonna happen, well, then you don't know Donald Trump.

So many things have happened in the last 10 years that I literally looked right down the barrel of a camera and said, that's never gonna happen. And then two months later, it happens. So I've got 5%. He's going for the third term. Okay. And I've got, you know, some percentage that he could not even have try to pretend that he can't have an election.

I do think the country's strong enough to stop that, but I have to throw that out there. But I do think Vance goes into the whip chamber. By the way, he's unpopular. He looks terrible. And if he wants to out Trump, Trump, shave your beard, buddy, because the beard looks terrible. And Trump doesn't like the beard.

And I'm just letting you know, you're not going to Greenland like you did and going to Space Force. You really look like a dummy. So I'm not worried about him. What I'm worried about is that younger movement. I am worried about the Charlie Kirks. I am worried about the podcasters that are out there that are strong, vigorous guys and girls that are incredibly smart.

And you guys need a counter-dote to that. And so let's get to work on that.

Because remember, they have to own the libs, right? So Walsh can get on Signal. He's texting Jeff Goldberg like war plans. And then it turns out he's using Gmail for all of the other stuff. So they're upset with Hillary Clinton for some reason, but then they're doing worse than what she did. And so he can't fire Walsh because he can't.

waltz because he can't give a liberal a scalp you know we got to own the lives remember he is the napoleon of the culture war donald trump okay so you guys have to find wellington but he's the napoleon so we can't you know we got to own the libs first before we do anything else right we've got to run the ads on the transgender athletics even though it's a small group of people to trigger everybody right yeah so that guy's not getting fired right so what trump is

You're forced to pay back the debt with dollars that are worth... more than the dollars you borrow. In an inflationary situation, you can pay back the debt with dollars that are worth less. But if the counter should happen, it's absolutely devastating for the society. And so the Fed is going to be forced now to cut rates because the Fed fears deflation way more than inflation.

pushing and what you have to be worried about in my opinion is that persistent culture you guys seem to be one step behind him in every culture war you know i mean bill bill's going to have dinner with him okay bill's on your team by the way don't let bill go the way of elon musk and bob you're talking bill maher yeah bill maher yeah don't let him go the way of elon musk but give him

When you're done with me podcasting, pick up the phone, call Bill, say, dude, let's go have lunch. Calm down. He's coming on the pod soon, so we'll talk about that dinner. I'm sure he had beef wellington in the White House because Trump eats that every night for dinner. Calm down and come back to the fold here, Billy, because we need you and you need us. You don't want to go down this path.

We need Bill Maher. I absolutely agree with that. And by the way, you did great on his show the other night. I mean, you're very realistic. And I've been on his show many times. But dude, don't let him go that way, man. Not right now.

I believe in the big story, Governor Newsom. I believe in the narrative. If you study Lincoln, you study Jack Kennedy, you study the Roosevelt Revolution when he beat Herbert Hoover, I believe in the narrative. You're not going to beat him being a pig like him. If you call his hands little like Marco Rubio, you end up as one of his knaves. It's like the farmer said about the pig. You're not a pig.

The pig likes getting in the mud. Don't get in the mud with the pig. I don't believe in that. You have a supra narrative. You can point out to people what they're trying to do to you, the bureaucratic terrorism that they're trying to do to you with the federal government exerting power over you. You can do that, but you got to do it subtly. The big narrative has to be, Who are we as Americans?

When you look in the mirror, do you see an America that's aggrieved and victimized, or do you see an America in ascendancy? We represent the Americans that are in ascendancy. We are the side for good. We are the benevolent people. We're not locking the gate to the swimming pool to charge admission. We're going to teach other people how to build their own swimming pools, okay?

And we've made some mistakes. Maybe you got to have less regulation so Bill can get his roof done. I'm not saying that the Democrats are perfect. They made some mistakes. You're working on reform to correct those mistakes. But the mistakes that you've made have been from inclusivity.

So what he's doing is actually historically catastrophic. He's doing something that literally, if you said, governor, if I said to you, okay, let's get in a room, you and I, and let's dismantle the global trading system. Let's get every one of our allies sore at us. And let's give our adversaries a leg up. Let's give China an opportunity now to re-engage with Europe.

The mistakes that you've made, whether it's bail reform or things like that, have been mistakes related to frailty of human beings and our humanity. And so I wouldn't focus on Charlie Kirk's rat-a-tat-tat flood the zone or Steve Bannon stuff because that's already old news. The new, new news is what is the narrative?

What is the compelling democratic narrative which allows Americans to look in the mirror and say, that's me? I'm strong, I'm aspirational, I'm kind, I'm benevolent, and I'm going to work alongside of my fellow Americans to put down the internecine warfare and the internecine tribal warfare. These guys want the tribal warfare, but the average American does not.

And they're beating you on the tribal warfare and in the culture war, but you can flip the table on them by going in the direction that I'm describing.

Thank you for your- It's a huge honor to be on with you, okay? And by the way, you got the hair. I mean, Newsom, that hair is an asset for you, okay? You got to use the hair more, man. Okay.

Yeah. I mean, it's a state of California asset, you know?

My grandmother was a maid, Governor Newsom. So trust me, it's very important to me that I treat everybody with great kindness because Thank you.

and become their number one trading partner. What should we do to do that in 65, 70 days? And this is what you would do. Everything that he's implemented is doing that. And his unserious cabinet, they can't defend it. I mean, Lutnick's on TV, tried to defend it, cannot defend it. I feel bad for Scott, you know, the Secretary of Treasury, Bessette.

It's like blink twice, we'll get still Team 6 in there, take you off the CNN show. You know, I mean, it's... it's embarrassing it's embarrassing for all of us because Okay, and this is the thing with Donald Trump. There are things about him that centrists, Wall Streeters, centrists do like. They want a stronger border. I think you've had several people on your show that have articulated that.

They want some banking deregulation, some positive crypto regulation. But with Donald Trump, sir, you go to the buffet table with your tray. You can't pick the things that you want a la carte. he force feeds you everything. You know, he force feeds you the meme coin. He force feeds you the rhetoric on the 51st state.

He force feeds you the nonsense about NATO and the, I mean, what the dressing down of Zelensky. What they did to Zelensky, to me, is literally one of the most un-American things that I've seen. We're in a situation now where even Rand Paul, sir, even Rand Paul got to the airwaves last night and said that what he's proposing is absurd.

Of course, the markets are reacting with their signal, not noise, signal. They're signaling how absurd this all is.

Well, he has sent out his keyboard warriors this morning to say to people, come to the table. Eric Trump is out on X or whatever they call it now saying, hey, come to the table and negotiate with my dad or it's going to end badly for you. I've seen it my whole life. And so they're nervous. They're sending out signals to people that, okay, we've obviously overstepped.

Obviously, this... Governor, I call it the anti... Ten Commandments. It's like the evil Ten Commandments. He had this big tablet in his hand. We had Orange Moses descending from Mount Evil with the, you know, indiscernible tablet. But they now know that they've overstepped. And so they're nervous. And they're trying to tell leaders now, come to the table. Let my father declare victory, you know.

Yeah. You know, Prime Minister Carney come to the table and then he'll put out on Truth Social, I've lowered the tariffs for Canada, you know, this sort of thing. And it's actually embarrassing.

You know, it's embarrassing because I can't speak for the school system in California, but I would imagine sometime in the first grade, like the school system here in New York, you read The Emperor Has No Clothes. I was seven when I first read this brilliant piece of literature. Yeah.

And I remember remarking to myself at age seven, well, who would be stupid enough to tell an emperor that he has clothes on when he has no clothes on? And of course, now here we are in 2025. It's 54 years after I read this beautiful piece of first grade literature. And I'm watching people in the president's court do things. They're bobbleheads.

They're bobbing their heads saying yes, yes, yes, where privately they're saying no, no, no. And so I do think there would be a breach. But I want to go back to your loved thing because I think this is a 40-year idea for Trump. He mentioned it to Oprah Winfrey in the mid-'80s, and he wants to implement it. And so if it causes hardship in his –

perverse mind, he thinks that this is a solution for America. He thinks this is a reshoring solution for America. He thinks this is an end of the freeloading. This is what his team says on Signal. But of course, you and I know that that's not the case. And I can prove to your viewers and listeners that this is not the case. America

by integrating with the rest of the world created a bigger market for America, more prosperity for America. Is it perfect? No. Should our political leadership have checked some of the rights that the Chinese had in the WTO as the Chinese economy grew? Yes, I accept that. Should we have checked some of the tariffs that got put on us? Certainly.

But the notion that America would integrate with the rest of the world and then generally provide a security umbrella for the free world, has led to incredible amounts of peace and incredible amounts of prosperity here in America. And let me just point this out to you before you ask another question. In 1982, we had approximately 5% of the world's population and 26% of the world's output.

it's the same number today so think of the rising living standards around the world i can prove to you prima facie that the policies have generally worked we just needed to have done a better job we left a vacuum of advocacy your party frankly my party my old party we left a vacuum of advocacy for white middle class blue collar workers. And I would suggest that we got to get back to that.

If you want to have the counter narrative to the nonsense that's going on, those families, and this would be my own family, they voted for the Franklin Roosevelt's, they voted for the Jack Kennedy's, they voted for the Lyndon Johnson's. But it seems like we just lost our way and we left those people out of the American aspirational economy. Many of those people now sort of feel desperational.

Okay, good, because this could be a confessional for me. I won't have to go on Saturday. I can confess all my sins. I can confess all my sins working for Donald Trump here.

So again, the case could have been made 40 or 50 years ago, but it can't be realistically made today. That's the problem because NAFTA caused a full integration of the Canadian and almost the full integration of the Mexican economy.