Alie Ward
Appearances
Ologies with Alie Ward
Hippopotomology (HIPPOS) with Rebecca Lewison
Oh, hey, it's the fish soup that you spilled all over the kitchen, which actually did happen to me, Hallie Ward. And this is Ologies. It's a podcast where we explore an ology a week. So you are tuning into a chat about hippos. It will leave you changed. It changed me.
Ologies with Alie Ward
Hippopotomology (HIPPOS) with Rebecca Lewison
That's true? No. That is 100% true. No. What? That's right. Common hippos, the big ones you're used to, they're most closely related to whales. Whales.
Ologies with Alie Ward
Hippopotomology (HIPPOS) with Rebecca Lewison
I have so many questions. Mouths. Mouths. I'm thinking like baleen, huge, insane mouths on whales and hippos. Why are mouths so big?
Ologies with Alie Ward
Hippopotomology (HIPPOS) with Rebecca Lewison
And after elephants and rhinos, hippos are the largest land mammal, even though the common hippo's scientific name is hippopotamus amphibius. Terrestrial animal? We'll get into it.
Ologies with Alie Ward
Hippopotomology (HIPPOS) with Rebecca Lewison
That's so much tooth for someone that eats grass. So much tooth.
Ologies with Alie Ward
Hippopotomology (HIPPOS) with Rebecca Lewison
These tusks, these mouth harpoons, grow their entire lives. And the bottom incisors, they jut straight out for better stabbing. And though females do have smaller teeth than the males, male tusks can be over 20 inches long or 60 centimeters. Why so big? Because they use them to gore the mouths of their rivals in this spitty, bloody jab battle. It looks like chewing on glass.
Ologies with Alie Ward
Hippopotomology (HIPPOS) with Rebecca Lewison
So point your weird little ears our way to learn about knife teeth, blood sweat, swamp hippos, pet hippos, subspecies, their daily diet, the current state of hippo conservation, the absolute chaotic affection we have for Mudang. How many people hippos kill a year for real? If you need to apologize to a hippo. Who are hippos' best friends? Their role as ecosystem engineers.
Ologies with Alie Ward
Hippopotomology (HIPPOS) with Rebecca Lewison
Now that I know that they are sister taxa to whales. Yeah. Swimming. How are they swimming? They got no flippers. What's going on?
Ologies with Alie Ward
Hippopotomology (HIPPOS) with Rebecca Lewison
And so how are they underwater for five or six minutes and what occasion do they have to use that feature? Yeah.
Ologies with Alie Ward
Hippopotomology (HIPPOS) with Rebecca Lewison
So essentially your nostrils face your feet, right? Don't put your fingers in there, but you know they're facing your feet. They're pointing down. Hippo nostrils are like on the top of their head and they're facing the sky. Like, you know, Shrek's ears? that's like their nostrils. But they also have ears that look like Shrek's ears.
Ologies with Alie Ward
Hippopotomology (HIPPOS) with Rebecca Lewison
So they kind of have like a Shrek's ears for ears and then a small Shrek's ears that are actually their nostrils. It's just unsettling. I like it.
Ologies with Alie Ward
Hippopotomology (HIPPOS) with Rebecca Lewison
I was going to say, it's like a chocolate river. That's right. Hippos killing people. let's talk about it because they cause more human fatalities than sharks, which we, as if we don't have it coming, like we have a coming so hard, but how are they lethal?
Ologies with Alie Ward
Hippopotomology (HIPPOS) with Rebecca Lewison
If you have ever been brainwashed about a hippo, what's up with their nostrils? How to keep a hippo in your pocket? And tips on flattering your friends into planning a group vacation. With conservation biologist, professor, and actual real-life hippopotamologist, Dr. Rebecca Lewison.
Ologies with Alie Ward
Hippopotomology (HIPPOS) with Rebecca Lewison
So what's the source of all this drama? Surprise, it's us. Do those happen with overturned boats or bites or how does it?
Ologies with Alie Ward
Hippopotomology (HIPPOS) with Rebecca Lewison
Yeah. It's like donuts in the break room. What are they supposed to do?
Ologies with Alie Ward
Hippopotomology (HIPPOS) with Rebecca Lewison
How are hippo numbers? We know that the pygmy hippo is not doing so great, but how are hippo numbers in general?
Ologies with Alie Ward
Hippopotomology (HIPPOS) with Rebecca Lewison
We've got a true hippopotamologist, a professor of biology at San Diego State University, whose research at Vassar and UC Davis focused on vulnerable wildlife populations and conservation and, of course... Hippos. So they know way more about hippos than most people ever will on the planet. And they're in a very elite club of hippopotamologists.
Ologies with Alie Ward
Hippopotomology (HIPPOS) with Rebecca Lewison
So aside from zoos, are there hippos outside of Africa? Oh, we will discuss.
Ologies with Alie Ward
Hippopotomology (HIPPOS) with Rebecca Lewison
Yeah. I would have thought there were millions out there. Yeah. And when it comes to distribution, 38 countries is so many countries. But if you had a map of the world, where do we think they are that they're not? And what would surprise us about where they are? Like when it comes to their range, what do most people think versus what's the reality?
Ologies with Alie Ward
Hippopotomology (HIPPOS) with Rebecca Lewison
And Rebecca says that while there are only two species, there is debate about whether up to four subspecies exist since West and East African hippos are so isolated from each other geographically.
Ologies with Alie Ward
Hippopotomology (HIPPOS) with Rebecca Lewison
When you say disagreement, what is that like in the hippo community? Are there conferences? Do people not speak to certain colleagues anymore? What are hippo people like?
Ologies with Alie Ward
Hippopotomology (HIPPOS) with Rebecca Lewison
Why do they have such tiny ears?
Ologies with Alie Ward
Hippopotomology (HIPPOS) with Rebecca Lewison
I guess there's a reason we don't go swimming in gowns. Exactly. You don't want too much drag. You mentioned the nostrils being like blowholes. The Jungle Cruise at Disney. You've been on it?
Ologies with Alie Ward
Hippopotomology (HIPPOS) with Rebecca Lewison
You're not far from Anaheim. What I recall from that ride is that there's a lot of puns. I believe there's some racism in it, but also there's a depiction of hippos as like nature's ultimate predator. Do you recall anything about that? I do.
Ologies with Alie Ward
Hippopotomology (HIPPOS) with Rebecca Lewison
Thank you so much for doing this. As someone who studies hippos, this is a busy time of life for you, and we will get to why. How long have hippos been part of your bread and butter?
Ologies with Alie Ward
Hippopotomology (HIPPOS) with Rebecca Lewison
It goes like, we did a mosquito episode recently, and it's like, mosquitoes, other humans... Yeah. Snakes, like dogs with rabies, like whatever. Humans and mosquitoes are the ones you got to watch out for. Absolutely. Can I ask you patron questions? Yeah. Okay. Your questions about hippos in a moment, but first we're going to fling some cash at a worthy cause.
Ologies with Alie Ward
Hippopotomology (HIPPOS) with Rebecca Lewison
And this week it's going to Weichau Community Hippo Sanctuary, which is a community-led tourism attraction project. It's located at Weichau in the Upper West region of Ghana. And they say that hippos help regulate both aquatic and terrestrial habitats and are great ecosystem engineers. So it's a great cause to find out more. You can go to wilderinstitute.org. The link is in the show notes.
Ologies with Alie Ward
Hippopotomology (HIPPOS) with Rebecca Lewison
So thank you for the heads up on that, Rebecca. And thanks for the money, sponsors. Okay, your questions. You can submit yours via patreon.com slash ologies. It costs one hot dollar a month, although the upper tiers let you leave us audio questions. So let's dig into the bag and let's get those answered and find out how to make hippos happier. Deborah Brunner said...
Ologies with Alie Ward
Hippopotomology (HIPPOS) with Rebecca Lewison
So yeah, here's an idea. You don't want to see the sharp end of a tusk. Stay out of the river. If a hippo picked a lock and arrived in the middle of the night in your living room, dripping with river poo, would you not grab the baseball bat between your bed and the nightstand and ask it in no uncertain terms to scram? I know you would.
Ologies with Alie Ward
Hippopotomology (HIPPOS) with Rebecca Lewison
Speaking of certainty, do hippos know when they've found the one? Steph Simmons, Ann Arbor, Michigan, asks,
Ologies with Alie Ward
Hippopotomology (HIPPOS) with Rebecca Lewison
A little bit. Yeah. They're showing off a little too.
Ologies with Alie Ward
Hippopotomology (HIPPOS) with Rebecca Lewison
Amanda and Eli Loves Vultures both want to know, Eli says, I love hearing scientists describe animal sounds, wheezes and honks and croaks. Oh my, what do we know about the sounds they make and what don't we know? That is a great question.
Ologies with Alie Ward
Hippopotomology (HIPPOS) with Rebecca Lewison
I so appreciate that you're able to mimic them like that. Do people ever try to get them to come to them? No one that I know.
Ologies with Alie Ward
Hippopotomology (HIPPOS) with Rebecca Lewison
We need more hippopotamologists. We absolutely do. Several listeners asked this question that was absolutely not on my radar whatsoever. Amanda Nugent asks, is there a plan for the cocaine hippos in Colombia from Escobar's estate? Kayla White, all caps, all caps, no punctuation, said, please, please, please talk about Pablo Escobar's hippos. please, it's my favorite story to tell new people.
Ologies with Alie Ward
Hippopotomology (HIPPOS) with Rebecca Lewison
It will be your new favorite story, especially for inquiring patrons, Alan Gross, Stephen Lee, Teresa Gleason, Kristen Love, Matt Goff, Jen Squirrel-Alvarez, A Softly Boiled Egg, Christina Hammerberg, Lucy Vinn, Sigwani Dana, Gregorius of Tomsk, and Pavka34, who needed to hear about these cocaine hippos.
Ologies with Alie Ward
Hippopotomology (HIPPOS) with Rebecca Lewison
I guess this sort of dovetails into the question of meat. Rebecca Morrison, Tinaz, Michael Sherman, Daniel Schmaniel, Jess Sunter, several people asked, do people eat hippos?
Ologies with Alie Ward
Hippopotomology (HIPPOS) with Rebecca Lewison
And a few listeners, reigning Emily and Andy Pepper, hoped that I would bring up what patron Mackenzie King wrote instead of a question, offered, this feels like a great place to drop the fun fact I have about hippos. Mackenzie writes, in 1910, Robert Broussard, a Louisiana senator, proposed that hippos be imported from Africa to Louisiana to be the new version of beef in America.
Ologies with Alie Ward
Hippopotomology (HIPPOS) with Rebecca Lewison
Not her. She dedicated her research to a notoriously challenging terrestrial species. What the hell happened?
Ologies with Alie Ward
Hippopotomology (HIPPOS) with Rebecca Lewison
This was due to corporate beef monopolies, beef shortages, and super high prices on beef nationwide. I was like, whoa, Raining Emily, Andy Pepper, and Mackenzie, I didn't even know about this. So yeah, the American hippo bill was introduced by Robert Broussard, or as fellow Louisianans called him in the early 1900s, Cousin Bob. And though he had the blessing of Teddy Roosevelt...
Ologies with Alie Ward
Hippopotomology (HIPPOS) with Rebecca Lewison
New York Times food writers who attested that hippo brisket was fatty and tasted like lake cow bacon. And Broussard even had the support of some ecologists looking to solve the invasive water hyacinth problem that was plaguing New Orleans.
Ologies with Alie Ward
Hippopotomology (HIPPOS) with Rebecca Lewison
Alas. As you know, no swamp hippos lurk in our dark American waters. Our sprawling Bass Pro shops don't sell hippo calling devices to locals. We don't get to see invasive hippos learning to use crosswalks or trying to mate with hot dog carts. But yeah, in other countries, if they got a hippo, they may eat a hippo.
Ologies with Alie Ward
Hippopotomology (HIPPOS) with Rebecca Lewison
Allison Ledman wanted to know, are there any other animals besides humans that prey on hippos? Or do predators just know to steer clear?
Ologies with Alie Ward
Hippopotomology (HIPPOS) with Rebecca Lewison
Crocodiles can't even get them. A crocodile will shred your ass up and down and drown you as casually as eating a Snickers, but they can't fight off a hippo. Who would dare? Not many creatures. If they don't have a ton of enemies, do they have a lot of friends?
Ologies with Alie Ward
Hippopotomology (HIPPOS) with Rebecca Lewison
Like Marissa Kay, first-time question asker, long-time listener, very excited about hippos, would like to know a little bit more about their social structure. Risa Pereni wants to know if they ever cuddle. Do they pair or live separately?
Ologies with Alie Ward
Hippopotomology (HIPPOS) with Rebecca Lewison
And patrons Mona Finlayson, Prani Kiritsingh, Storm Kitty Hammond, Colin Robotten, Oliver Callis also asked this, and in Bronwyn Iverson's Hugo's words, do they have best friends?
Ologies with Alie Ward
Hippopotomology (HIPPOS) with Rebecca Lewison
You know, speaking of males, people asked about Rob Lara, the poo helicopter, why? Lena Carpenter wanted to know, how do hippos just poop in the water? Like, the water they're in, and then proceed to swim in it like no big deal. Boy, hippo poop spraying, disgust. Do they have middens? Do they just go wherever? There must be so much of it.
Ologies with Alie Ward
Hippopotomology (HIPPOS) with Rebecca Lewison
So it might be easier to see the behavior of spiders if they're living in the lab and stuff. Exactly.
Ologies with Alie Ward
Hippopotomology (HIPPOS) with Rebecca Lewison
Thank you, patron and first-time question asker Allison Ludwig for asking, do tilapia really swim behind them and eat their poo? Allison Ludwig, they do. So yes, Emily Gee, Ashley Tween, and Rowan Tree, there are symbiotic relationships aplenty in a hippo's life. And so to Gits and Shiggles and Emma Henson, who asked, I have to befriend one before I die. How do I go about this?
Ologies with Alie Ward
Hippopotomology (HIPPOS) with Rebecca Lewison
The answer is to become a tilapia. You're never going to be bored. You're never going to be hungry. Every day is a feast.
Ologies with Alie Ward
Hippopotomology (HIPPOS) with Rebecca Lewison
Oh, my God. Yeah. Which I've seen it in people's like horrified zoo videos. But I hope that that's like a blessing.
Ologies with Alie Ward
Hippopotomology (HIPPOS) with Rebecca Lewison
Stacey Bendixson wants to know, do they sleep underwater?
Ologies with Alie Ward
Hippopotomology (HIPPOS) with Rebecca Lewison
Okay. There's no way that they could lung capacity wise, but in general, they're not like snoozing in a pile on the banks though.
Ologies with Alie Ward
Hippopotomology (HIPPOS) with Rebecca Lewison
Do you think that scientists are starting to rely more on like drone footage? Is that helpful in terms of getting kind of closer to them and getting like a better eye on them?
Ologies with Alie Ward
Hippopotomology (HIPPOS) with Rebecca Lewison
You know, pop culturally, there's no lack of hippos.
Ologies with Alie Ward
Hippopotomology (HIPPOS) with Rebecca Lewison
In terms of the word, the beach master, are you, you're familiar with that term? Is it, there's a really long time ago, a documentary about hippos, and they talked about how there's a beach master of hippos.
Ologies with Alie Ward
Hippopotomology (HIPPOS) with Rebecca Lewison
And I wasn't sure if this is like a very common term for hippos, and this is just a side note, but that term has stuck around me and my good girl friend groups for decades now, where the beach master is the one in our friend group who now has to decide like where we're going to go to dinner, or someone needs to beachmaster this because I can't deal.
Ologies with Alie Ward
Hippopotomology (HIPPOS) with Rebecca Lewison
But I wasn't sure if beachmaster is like, no, that's what we call the dominant male. But no, beachmaster is not a familiar term.
Ologies with Alie Ward
Hippopotomology (HIPPOS) with Rebecca Lewison
I played it all the time. They don't even eat marbles in real life, right? They definitely don't.
Ologies with Alie Ward
Hippopotomology (HIPPOS) with Rebecca Lewison
It reminds me of like on the bachelorette when one gets a one-on-one date and the rest have to hang out at the mansion.
Ologies with Alie Ward
Hippopotomology (HIPPOS) with Rebecca Lewison
Do a lot of hippo males divergence? Excellent question.
Ologies with Alie Ward
Hippopotomology (HIPPOS) with Rebecca Lewison
When it comes to trying to get DNA samples, their skin seems so thick. You can't just run a Q-tip over their skin and get samples, right? You've touched hippos?
Ologies with Alie Ward
Hippopotomology (HIPPOS) with Rebecca Lewison
Apparently, a hippo hide can be two and a half inches thick or six centimeters, which is comparable to a very robust slab of kitchen countertop or a butcher block made out of wet leather. And speaking of leather, yes, you could buy, say, a wallet made from hippo skin. And it looks kind of like... thick, crackly suede.
Ologies with Alie Ward
Hippopotomology (HIPPOS) with Rebecca Lewison
You could buy it, that is, if you had $99 plus tax and shipping and you wanted it. Now they are, I found some, they're handmade in Indiana by Amish craftsmen and their website has images demonstrating like it's billfold and slots for up to eight credit cards. And I was scrolling to the bottom of the description and I spotted this small disclaimer that said, money and cards are not included.
Ologies with Alie Ward
Hippopotomology (HIPPOS) with Rebecca Lewison
And I'm like, They must have gotten one email from a customer who was just enraged that theirs arrived empty. But from seeing red to being tickled pink, what a segue. Let's discuss a question from... So... Speaking of their skin though, sweating blood, what's the deal? Do they sweat red? Is it sunscreen? What's going on?
Ologies with Alie Ward
Hippopotomology (HIPPOS) with Rebecca Lewison
Right? A few Mudang questions because, of course. She's the cutest, cutest.
Ologies with Alie Ward
Hippopotomology (HIPPOS) with Rebecca Lewison
Bell Aspiring Garbage Archaeologist asked, is it common or somewhat out of the ordinary for a baby hippo to be as ornery as Mudang? No shade, I wish I could be as ornery as Mudang in public, they ask. Is Mudang ornery for a young pygmy hippo?
Ologies with Alie Ward
Hippopotomology (HIPPOS) with Rebecca Lewison
What about... some controversy regarding Mudang. Jennifer Gorgon said, I heard there was some controversy about the treatment of Mudang. Do you have an opinion on the issue? Anna Vilnide wanted to know, would love some professional information. Are caretakers riling up some captive animals for the reactions that visitors want to see, they asked.
Ologies with Alie Ward
Hippopotomology (HIPPOS) with Rebecca Lewison
And whether online content being the goal is harming the creatures that we seem to love so much. And Natalie Jones asked, is Mudang doing okay? It seems like having thousands of humans yelling and looking at you a day would mess up a baby's development. Is this a stage mother type of situation that needs intervention?
Ologies with Alie Ward
Hippopotomology (HIPPOS) with Rebecca Lewison
No neck. Hippos are neckless. And so are they foraging the grasses on the banks of rivers or are they coming up on land?
Ologies with Alie Ward
Hippopotomology (HIPPOS) with Rebecca Lewison
Yeah. Is there any flim flam that you just have to bust that you're like, this is not how it is, other than painting them as absolutely cold-blooded killers who want nothing more than a human's demise?
Ologies with Alie Ward
Hippopotomology (HIPPOS) with Rebecca Lewison
And I asked her all of my very not smart questions as well as yours. If you want to submit a question ahead of time before we record... You can become a patron at patreon.com slash ologies. It costs about 25 cents an episode to join. It helps fund the show.
Ologies with Alie Ward
Hippopotomology (HIPPOS) with Rebecca Lewison
What's the worst thing about being a hippopotamologist?
Ologies with Alie Ward
Hippopotomology (HIPPOS) with Rebecca Lewison
What's your favorite thing about hippos?
Ologies with Alie Ward
Hippopotomology (HIPPOS) with Rebecca Lewison
If there were ever one sleeping next to you, would you want to give it a gentle kiss on the nosy?
Ologies with Alie Ward
Hippopotomology (HIPPOS) with Rebecca Lewison
I wonder if they know how much we love them. That is a good question.
Ologies with Alie Ward
Hippopotomology (HIPPOS) with Rebecca Lewison
Yeah. This whole episode has convinced me that we're in a toxic relationship with hippos. We're the toxic partner because we fawn over them. We love bomb them. And then we take what they need most. We take their habitat and we spread lies about them and then we slander them. So if anything, if you love hippos, just know you're the toxic one in the relationship. Clean up your act a little bit.
Ologies with Alie Ward
Hippopotomology (HIPPOS) with Rebecca Lewison
So they have stomped down a little highway that leads to a food court of short grass. It's like a free buffet, but it only serves short grass. If hippos are like the size of a car, a small car, and they're eating just a very particular kind of grass down a long trail, how are they getting enough calories to have so much cake, to have such dump trucks?
Ologies with Alie Ward
Hippopotomology (HIPPOS) with Rebecca Lewison
So hippo people, happy to answer questions. And we're so very lucky that Dr. Lewis was amenable to answering ours. Thank you again, Rebecca. And you can find links to her research and lab as well as to the Weichau Community Hippo Sanctuary at the link in the show notes. And we also have a link to our new show, Smologies, which are shorter, kid-friendly, classroom-safe versions of Ologies Classics.
Ologies with Alie Ward
Hippopotomology (HIPPOS) with Rebecca Lewison
They used to be in this feed, but I bounced them to their own feed. So you can look for that show wherever you get podcasts. It's got new green artwork. We are at Ologies on Blue Sky and Instagram. I'm on there as well as Allie Ward. What's just one L in Allie? Thank you to patrons at patreon.com slash ologies for making this show possible. Ologies merch is available at the link in the show notes.
Ologies with Alie Ward
Hippopotomology (HIPPOS) with Rebecca Lewison
Thank you to Aaron Talbert for admitting the Ologies podcast Facebook group. Love to Mama Kath. Aveline Malik makes our professional transcripts. Kelly Ardoire does the website. Noelle Dilworth is our scheduling producer. Susan Hale is the beach master of a managing director. Jake Chafee edits like a
Ologies with Alie Ward
Hippopotomology (HIPPOS) with Rebecca Lewison
hip pro and the mighty Mercedes Maitland of Maitland Audio lead edits these into submission every week. Nick Thorburn moaned and honked out the theme music. And if you stick around to the end of the episode, I tell you a secret about my life if you want it. And okay, so this week it's that I wear one of those rings, an aura ring, which I've used for years.
Ologies with Alie Ward
Hippopotomology (HIPPOS) with Rebecca Lewison
But an aura ring helps track sleep and your steps and stress. And no big shocker, I've started meditating again literally just in the last week. Um, my soul feels like a hairball in a drain over current events. And I can tell on my aura ring that when I do meditate, my heart rate and stress levels go way down. So that is great incentive to like keep at it.
Ologies with Alie Ward
Hippopotomology (HIPPOS) with Rebecca Lewison
And I was going to tell you guys that is a secret. And I looked at my app today to see like, yeah, it did go down this morning when I meditated, but I also saw this really sharp spike, um, in anxiety today. And I looked and it was like two hours ago and, And I realized it was precisely the time when I spilled a quart of fish soup on my pants and the kitchen floor and inside the fridge.
Ologies with Alie Ward
Hippopotomology (HIPPOS) with Rebecca Lewison
It was like everywhere. And fish soup of all the things. Iced tea, whatever, fine. Fish soup, like, honestly. Anyway, anxiety spike, deep breaths. We're doing our best. We're all doing our best. I hope you enjoy a nice bath today like a hippo would, or you could treat yourself to a big mud salad. Whatever keeps your skin thick and your spirits buoyant. Go do it. Okay. Bye-bye.
Ologies with Alie Ward
Hippopotomology (HIPPOS) with Rebecca Lewison
When would you sleep? Would you sleep during the day?
Ologies with Alie Ward
Hippopotomology (HIPPOS) with Rebecca Lewison
You can also buy ologies merch at ologiesmerch.com or you can support for no dollars by leaving us a review, which helps convince me that I'm not broadcasting to an assortment of dolls in a basement. And I read all your reviews, such as this one from Chris F., who writes, Hippos, hippos. You might know, you probably know that hippopotamus in Latin, it means river horse.
Ologies with Alie Ward
Hippopotomology (HIPPOS) with Rebecca Lewison
What happens if you're asleep on top of a Land Rover watching hippos and an elephant wakes you up? That's a good question.
Ologies with Alie Ward
Hippopotomology (HIPPOS) with Rebecca Lewison
Did you think you were dreaming for one second?
Ologies with Alie Ward
Hippopotomology (HIPPOS) with Rebecca Lewison
Just a normal day on the job for a hippo ecologist. So you're absolutely in a safari park of life or you're surrounded by something that sounds like a fever dream. What are you doing when you're watching them at night? Are you taking notes like this one went and did a poop on this one or this one seems to be crying? I know.
Ologies with Alie Ward
Hippopotomology (HIPPOS) with Rebecca Lewison
And so when we see hippos in zoos, they are opening their gaping maws and a whole pumpkin goes in. But do they have that kind of experience ever in the wild?
Ologies with Alie Ward
Hippopotomology (HIPPOS) with Rebecca Lewison
How long do they live? You said they live a long time?
Ologies with Alie Ward
Hippopotomology (HIPPOS) with Rebecca Lewison
Okay. They're horses of the river, right? Like water horses? Yes. How are they extracting calories from a bunch of grass? Do they have stomachs like hippos? I mean, stomachs like horses?
Ologies with Alie Ward
Hippopotomology (HIPPOS) with Rebecca Lewison
So if you're a hippo doing your thing, it's say a Thursday and you're eating an average of 75 pounds of mowed grass, which is about two huge garbage bags full of lawn clippings per day. So much salad. Your favorite dressing, I guess, is mud. There's no croutons. Maybe you got some accidental worms in there, but you're eating dirt grass. It's the breakfast of champions. It's the lunch of champions.
Ologies with Alie Ward
Hippopotomology (HIPPOS) with Rebecca Lewison
It's the dinner of champions. How many pounds are we talking of hippo?
Ologies with Alie Ward
Hippopotomology (HIPPOS) with Rebecca Lewison
In the wild. And then pygmy hippos, by contrast. Pygmy hippos, by contrast, are about 400 to... So there are only two species of hippopotamuses or hippopotami. Either word is legit and fine. I thought there were maybe 10 species of hippopotamus, but there are two. The common big-ass hippo that you're used to is a hippopotamus amphibius, and then there's the pygmy hippo, Coeropsis liberiensis.
Ologies with Alie Ward
Hippopotomology (HIPPOS) with Rebecca Lewison
You don't need to know those names, but there's just two species. And pygmy hippos are one-sixth the size of a regular hippo or a common hippo.
Ologies with Alie Ward
Hippopotomology (HIPPOS) with Rebecca Lewison
That's kind of like a pig, right? A big pig.
Ologies with Alie Ward
Hippopotomology (HIPPOS) with Rebecca Lewison
Wait, how come I didn't know about pygmy hippos until now?
Ologies with Alie Ward
Hippopotomology (HIPPOS) with Rebecca Lewison
Whereas the big hippos that you're used to are just like here. They're like, I'm in the river. What's up?
Ologies with Alie Ward
Hippopotomology (HIPPOS) with Rebecca Lewison
If you didn't know that, I'm going to give you a second. It's hippo means horse, potamus means of the river, hippopotamus, river horse, these beasts. They are artidactyls, meaning that they have an even number of toes, like a bison or a deer and a giraffe. Those are all in artidactyls.
Ologies with Alie Ward
Hippopotomology (HIPPOS) with Rebecca Lewison
These little big babies, they live in Northwest Africa in forests. They keep to themselves. They come out at night like Mothman, and they're little. They're like farmhog size. As for how long humans have been, like, gazing at them from behind a fence, according to this 1972 paper, The Care and Breeding of the Pygmy Hippopotamus in Captivity says,
Ologies with Alie Ward
Hippopotomology (HIPPOS) with Rebecca Lewison
The first time they were introduced into captivity was in 1873 in a Dublin zoo. And I was looking to try to find out more about that. But instead, I stumbled upon an article about a Scottish zoo who just a few months ago welcomed the birth of a baby girl pygmy hippo. And then they made the decision to name her Haggis. In all fairness, she does resemble kind of a gray lump made of skin.
Ologies with Alie Ward
Hippopotomology (HIPPOS) with Rebecca Lewison
But they didn't have to go there. But yeah, the people, they want the baby pygmy hippos. With little sign that Mudung fever is waning, it seems this bouncy pig is more than earning her keep. Forced out of their land and hunted to near extinction in the wild, but in captivity, absolute slay.
Ologies with Alie Ward
Hippopotomology (HIPPOS) with Rebecca Lewison
Oh, that's got to be infuriating for you.
Ologies with Alie Ward
Thyroidology (THYROID GLAND) with Kepal Patel
Oh, hey, it's the guy at the library with that stack of survival books. Allie Ward, let's talk about your thyroid. Do you still have one? If not, let's talk about how it did you dirty. Metabolism, libido, sweating, freezing. You're in the right place for all of it. So I went to New York because I'm sophisticated.
Ologies with Alie Ward
Thyroidology (THYROID GLAND) with Kepal Patel
Positive Steps PDX, it's a joy to introduce the audience to all manner of ologists across all kinds of fields, including your thyroid. Now, thyroidology comes from the Greek thyrodidae. It means shield-shaped, and that refers to the Adam's apple of the throat, which is thyroid cartilage, and then the endocrine gland underneath it that provides hormones that keep your engine running.
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Thyroidology (THYROID GLAND) with Kepal Patel
If you discovered a thyroid disease and they called it Patel's, and then everyone complained about having Patel's, would you be like, I'll never be forgotten in my field? Or would you be like, bummer that my name is Patel's synonymous?
Ologies with Alie Ward
Thyroidology (THYROID GLAND) with Kepal Patel
Call a little column A, column B. Exactly. Well, okay. I have heard stories of people being diagnosed with thyroid disease just by someone seeing them like across the room or on TV. I don't know if you remember there was a story where someone... Oh, yeah. Do you remember that story?
Ologies with Alie Ward
Thyroidology (THYROID GLAND) with Kepal Patel
Someone was on TV and someone was like... I probably want to get your thyroid checked. And they had a thyroid issue.
Ologies with Alie Ward
Thyroidology (THYROID GLAND) with Kepal Patel
And then she got treated, right?
Ologies with Alie Ward
Thyroidology (THYROID GLAND) with Kepal Patel
So for Nicole McGinnis, being on Beachfront Bargain Hunt saved her life, while having a doctor watch Beachfront Bargain Hunt saved her life. What an anomaly, right? How often would someone be watching an HGTV show and notice thyroid cancer? It's like one in a million, one in a billion. Wait, what? No, hold on.
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Thyroidology (THYROID GLAND) with Kepal Patel
Okay, I was fact-checking Nicole's story, and I found out maybe this was apocryphal, maybe this was wrong, because it was actually HGTV personality Tarek El Moussa who had thyroid cancer, and it was a nurse who spotted his enlarged gland.
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Wait, what? What? Okay. I went on a deep dive about the health of a guy on HGTV. Turns out both of those stories are right. Nicole and Tarek, different shows, different thyroids, both on HGTV. So in addition to that lady looking for the cheap seaside cottage, Tarek El Moussa, co-host of HGTV's Flip or Flop, found out that he had thyroid cancer from that viewer's heads up.
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And this is after he'd been seeing a doctor for a while, trying to figure out why his throat hurt and was tight. And his doctor just kept brushing it aside as like allergies. Turns out it wasn't hay fever. It was stage two cancer having spread to his nearby lymph nodes. He had to get the thyroid removed and undergo radioactive iodine therapy, which we'll discuss in a bit.
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Thyroidology (THYROID GLAND) with Kepal Patel
And then unrelated, side note, Tarek's old doctor also was like, don't worry about that lump in your scrote. It's probably nothing. But it turned out it was testicular cancer unrelated to the thyroid cancer at the same time, at which point I'd want to sue my doctor or my endocrine system or both of them.
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Thyroidology (THYROID GLAND) with Kepal Patel
Now, for the testicular stuff, it's not something that a doctor on the subway or something would notice in passing, hopefully, depending on what kind of vibe you're running. But as for a goiter or an enlarged thyroid, do you ever notice that on people?
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Thyroidology (THYROID GLAND) with Kepal Patel
So let's get to it. Let's figure out just what the hell is happening with that lump in your throat.
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Thyroidology (THYROID GLAND) with Kepal Patel
Does it cover the Adam's apple?
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Thyroidology (THYROID GLAND) with Kepal Patel
And if maybe it's making you depressed or cold or tired or sweaty or shaky or hot, when to ask your doctor to check it, how to decipher labs, as well as info on radioactive cats, stress and thyroids, surviving a nuclear bomb, how diet can affect your thyroid, flim flam, and how being on TV might save your life.
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Thyroidology (THYROID GLAND) with Kepal Patel
So according to the 2020 paper, Iodine Deficiency and Goiter in the Williams Textbook of Endocrinology, 75% of people with goiter live in less developed countries where iodine deficiency is prevalent. And this prevalence of goiter is most common in mountainous areas, including the Himalayas and the Andes, where there is significant iodine deficiency.
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Thyroidology (THYROID GLAND) with Kepal Patel
That's like a higher percentage of kids mewing in class.
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Thyroidology (THYROID GLAND) with Kepal Patel
Yeah. Well, first off, is it goiter or goiters?
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Thyroidology (THYROID GLAND) with Kepal Patel
Okay, got it. I guess you can't have more than one.
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Yes. Have those changed in rates historically? Have we seen epidemics of goiter? What causes those?
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So the goiter belt, on trend for the Midwest in the 1920s, but has since, thankfully, gone out of fashion. Now, when you see iodized salt, you can say, hey, thanks, goiter buster. That's why you're iodized. But don't overdo the salt, and don't panic if you use uniodized kosher or sea salt. Chances are you have enough in the small amounts you're getting.
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Please also remember, however, that we can neither diagnose nor treat you because this is a free audio show. we don't have access to your neck or your blood. Don't be weird about this. Do be excited. So let's hear from surgeon, professor, endocrinology specialist, and thyroidologist, Dr. Kapil Patel.
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Is the thyroid trying to compensate by enlarging in tissue size? What's going on?
Ologies with Alie Ward
Thyroidology (THYROID GLAND) with Kepal Patel
Hypertrophy, hyper means it's growing bigger.
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Thyroidology (THYROID GLAND) with Kepal Patel
And if you add iodine to someone's diet, does it just shrink down or does it need a surgical intervention?
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I've always thought that it would just shrink. This is why you're a surgeon and I'm not. But are certain populations, let's say you're a seafaring person or you're a fishmonger on a coast, do you ever see increases in iodine and therefore hyperthyroidism?
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But again, if you're low on that thyroid hormone in your body, that T4 and thus T3, what about hormone replacement? I've heard Synthroid. I've also heard that sometimes they take desiccated pig thyroid. And there are two camps. And some people are very much like, don't give me the fake stuff. And other people are like, that pig stuff, you never know what you're getting.
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And also your favorite diabetic, diabetologist, Dr. Mike Natter was getting married to his bride, Alice. And whilst there, NYU Langone Hospital hooked it up with a thyroid expert and a surgeon who who was more than game to answer all my questions about this little hormonal organ that rules our lives.
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So remember, T4 is what the thyroid pumps out naturally, and then it's up to your body to convert it to T3. As for what your body is making and what medications might work best on you, if you're hypothyroid, there's that levothyroxine or the natural desiccated thyroid made from pigs. It's just what it sounds like. It's from ground-up pig parts.
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Now, I have had some thyroid problems in the past that have now resolved, but I did take desiccated pig thyroid for a while. And it has kind of a subtle flavor, kind of like a boiled pork chop water. Why put it in your mouth, you're asking the universe? Well, a 2024 Frontiers in Endocrinology paper titled, inquisitively, Natural Desiccated Thyroid for the Treatment of Hypothyroidism,
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noted that people with hypothyroidism who don't respond to levothyroxine, T4, are prescribed a natural desiccated thyroid preparation, which contains that mixture of T4 and T3. But it could vary between batches. You're not quite sure what you're getting.
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And so that natural desiccated thyroid may be better for some patients with hypothyroidism, but it's not the first go-to for doctors in the U.S., especially because it's technically not greenlit by the FDA. And it may not be right for some people who have heart disease or thyroid cancers or diabetes.
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And if crunched up pork thyroid is not for you, the paper does offer the suggestion of bovine thyroid for individuals who, for religious or cultural reasons, don't eat pork. Still not vegan.
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Thyroidology (THYROID GLAND) with Kepal Patel
Okay. What about infections? Like, does Epstein-Barr have an effect on thyroid? Does COVID have an effect on thyroid? Or is that just part of the, like, an autoimmune response? Yeah.
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EBV or the Epstein-Barr virus is mono, aka the kissing disease, which in my case, you can get in your 20s without even kissing anyone, but by sipping a friend of a friend's plum wine at a party and then regretting it for the rest of your life, which is how long EBV stays in your body.
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Thyroidology (THYROID GLAND) with Kepal Patel
And I'll have you just kind of hold it like an ice cream cone. Like if you were a standup or doing karaoke.
Ologies with Alie Ward
Thyroidology (THYROID GLAND) with Kepal Patel
So can an autoimmune response happen kind of with any exposure to a virus that just says, hey, immune system, like, let's kick into gear?
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Yeah. A hundred percent. Apologies in advance. Okay. First off. Do I have an awful thyroid? I feel like that must be the question everyone asks you. Does my thyroid messed up must be something that you get constantly?
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I used to drink my tea out of a plastic cup from the 99 cent store. Hot tea. Sometimes I think, wow, that was a terrible decision I didn't realize I was making every day. Sure, that cup didn't break, but my body did.
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Oh, yeah, it's fine. Absolutely fine.
Ologies with Alie Ward
Thyroidology (THYROID GLAND) with Kepal Patel
What about nodules? When I think of thyroid nodules, I think of little lumps and beads, and I'm like, do you pop them? What are they exactly? Exactly.
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And what do you do? Do you stick a needle in there and check it out?
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Thyroidology (THYROID GLAND) with Kepal Patel
What's under the microscope when you squirt out whatever was in the needle?
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So if it's benign, they'll keep checking maybe a couple times a year. But what if it's not great news?
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Thyroidology (THYROID GLAND) with Kepal Patel
Do you numb it up before you put the needle in there?
Ologies with Alie Ward
Thyroidology (THYROID GLAND) with Kepal Patel
Is it somewhere in between a blood needle and like an acupuncture situation?
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Oh, so don't freak out if you get a nodule.
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Yeah. And you said, what percentage would you say are benign versus?
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That's what I thought you said, and then I thought there's no way I could have heard that right. Okay.
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But you want to get them checked out in case they are, because that is not a good situation if they are.
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When it comes to getting them out, do you just remove the nodule or do you have to take a chunk of thyroid?
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I figured these are things either you think about when you're in the room or you're taking the subway home and you go-
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So you can't pluck a thyroid nodule out like a pearl in an oyster. Doesn't work that way. That's news to me.
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oh, I know people probably want to keep the nodule. Are you ever like, sorry, buddy, I got to send this down to the lab?
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I mean, I recently had a hysterectomy and I was like, how much of this can I keep in a jar? And they're like, absolutely none of it.
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I was like, it was mine 10 minutes ago.
Ologies with Alie Ward
Thyroidology (THYROID GLAND) with Kepal Patel
That's nice. What percentage of people are like, take a snap, doc.
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Yeah, I would want to see. It's mine after all.
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Thyroidology (THYROID GLAND) with Kepal Patel
I think that's helpful. It's like when a mechanic is like, look at how bad your brake pads are. Exactly. Well, that's a good thing you should have done it. What about, let me see, thyroid cancer. What causes the nodules? What causes a malignancy? Does thyroid cancer typically start as a nodule?
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Thyroidology (THYROID GLAND) with Kepal Patel
Okay. Got it. So it's not, there's not a different kind of like spider webby cancer that starts.
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Like the woman shopping for the beach house on HGTV.
Ologies with Alie Ward
Thyroidology (THYROID GLAND) with Kepal Patel
Okay, so most people with thyroid cancer have a very treatable papillary type. Now, anaplastic, that's dicier, it's pretty dangerous. What happens if a person gets that diagnosis?
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Thyroidology (THYROID GLAND) with Kepal Patel
Wow. You know, with the earthquake in Japan in, I want to say 2010. Yeah. March 2011. My bad. There was a 9.0 undersea earthquake that led to a seaside nuclear reactor disaster. It was rated 7 out of 7 on the International Nuclear Event Scale. The worst since the Chernobyl disaster in 1986, which also ranked a 7.
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Living on the West Coast, of course, there was more concern about radiation coming up in the Pacific. Are thyroid doctors, are oncologists in general keeping an eye on that?
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Thyroidology (THYROID GLAND) with Kepal Patel
Is that why iodine pills are used in bunkers and stuff? Yeah. That's fascinating. Can iodine pills also be used to disinfect water? Yeah, you can. Okay, okay. That's so interesting. Why does iodine protect against thyroid cancer?
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Thyroidology (THYROID GLAND) with Kepal Patel
For no reason at all, I decided to bone up on what to do if World War III breaks out. And I found myself on the CDC site radiation emergencies, which let me know that a person must take potassium iodide before or shortly after being exposed to radioactive iodine. But before you risk feeling safe, the article mentions that this potassium iodide protects only against radioactive iodine.
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Thyroidology (THYROID GLAND) with Kepal Patel
It doesn't protect against any other type of radioactive material. And then it breaks it to us gently that, quote, potassium iodide will not help in a nuclear bomb emergency. But I mean, hey, it's worth having these emergency tablets in your bug out bag, which we should all have. I mean, salt would be tastier, but you'd probably need a lot of salt. You'd probably need a lot of salt.
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Can I ask you listener questions?
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Thyroidology (THYROID GLAND) with Kepal Patel
But before we get to them, we'll donate to a cause chosen by Dr. Patel, who selected the American Association of Endocrine Surgeons. And the AAES promotes research and education in the field of endocrine surgery to advance the science and the art of endocrine surgery. So a donation was made to them in Dr. Patel's honor. to further research in this area, in your neck area.
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So thank you to sponsors of the show for enabling us to toss some money to charities. Okay, your questions. If you're a patron at patreon.com slash ologies for just $1 a month, you can submit these before we record. And we even have a tier to submit audio questions so you could hear your voice on the show, which is pretty sick in a good way. This is not your species.
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However, several people, Timmy H., Deborah Gray, Scalebar, Daniel Sucher, Devin, Jessica Chance, I mean, a lot of people, Earl of Grammelkin, Vanessa Adams, Brycons, wanted to know, in Devin's words, my vet once told me that cats in the seacoast, this person is from Maine, are more likely to develop hyperthyroidism, overactive thyroid, that is. Were you aware of this?
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Do interspecies thyroidologists ever chat? And if cats on the seacoast are more likely to get it, is that an iodine thing you think?
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Mm-hmm. Earl of Gramelkin said I had a cat with hypothyroidism who got the I-131 treatment, and we had to keep her poop sequestered for a month.
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Well, okay, this was my next question.
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Just get that box. Go right to Petco. So I checked out the Cornell School of Veterinary Medicine's article, Feline Hyperthyroidism. And 98% of the time, it's benign. It's just from an enlargement in a kitty's thyroid as it ages. And treatment can involve restricting iodine in the diet, which also includes any outdoor hunting, which is good because that's bad for birds. and lizards and such anyway.
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And other treatments might include surgical removal of the thyroid and yes, radioactive treatment, which cures 95% of feline hyperthyroidism with one shot. But yeah, avoid that poop for as long as the vet tells you. Now, what about geography and your pet's thyroids? So the Banfield Science and Quality News published an article titled, Feline Hyperthyroidism Common in Northwest
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and East Coast, and it detailed that, yeah, the Pacific Northwest and the eastern seaboard of the U.S. have more kitty hyperthyroidism, but they don't know why. Could be that the cats there live longer than in southern states, maybe because of the weather they might be kept indoors more. It could be dietary sources of too much iodine.
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Could be endocrine disruptors in canned foods or scented kitty litter or flame retardants. And only 177 out of 10,000 cats will have the problem though. And it's a relatively easy fix. So don't start sobbing, but you can hug your cat right now if it lets you. So hyperthyroidism, let's leave your kitty alone. Let's talk about the rest of your bod.
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Ari Losensky, Sarah Manns, Dave Cannon, Hannah Bale, Stephanie Lingard, Rachel May, Sam Aker, all asked in Rebecca Fitchett's words, please talk about Graves' disease with an exclamation point. Let's talk graves.
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What's going on with it? What do you do? Where does radioactivity come into it?
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What about your metabolism? How much of an effect does it have in terms of like how many calories your body burns at a basic metabolic rate? How much of your body composition is determined by it?
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Remember, that TSH is the inverse of how much thyroid function you actually have. If you're one step ahead, a low, low TSH means what?
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Thyroidology (THYROID GLAND) with Kepal Patel
So people, if you got a uterus and you are planning to use it to cook a baby, you got to figure out something that's not those medications that will block the thyroid from making too much T4. So what do you do? You're asking me, a podcast host? I don't know.
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Dr. Patel gives some advice if your doctor opts for surgery.
Ologies with Alie Ward
Thyroidology (THYROID GLAND) with Kepal Patel
Yeah. I myself, if I had the chance to go night-night and wake up with no thyroid versus... sequestering myself with radioactivity, I would probably go night-night and get a popsicle later. Why would someone choose the radioactivity?
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Thyroidology (THYROID GLAND) with Kepal Patel
Okay. What if you take the radioactive iodine? Do you have to stay in any kind of lead bunker?
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So to treat Graves' disease, it's not much radioactive iodine. But with thyroid cancer, you're bringing out the big guns.
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What about bedding and stuff like that?
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Okay. Oh, good to know. The idea that you're potentially turning into Spider-Man is exciting now. You know what kind of superpowers you can get.
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If you are inspired to be the radioactive center of the Marvel Universe, what do your labs have to look like?
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So many of you, Daniel Johnston, Karen Calabrantly, Matea Orr, Little C. Sidey, Sarah Jo, Cassie Lebon, Caitlin Fitzgerald, Annie Dulles, Elliot, Brooklyn Barron, and Vanessa Adams all asked, what's up with labs that are in the normal range, but you still feel awful, whether it's hypo or hyper? So did. Elliot Feeling, first time question asker, hyperthyroidism and Graves disease have her here.
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Wondering what exactly are those normal ranges and what's the difference between T4, T3, or rather in the free versions of them?
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Thyroidology (THYROID GLAND) with Kepal Patel
Why is, Patrick Duffy wanted to know, why is the normal range... So large.
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How often are people depressed, but they think it's their thyroid or vice versa?
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He's an actor from the 1980s soap opera Dallas, which was its Yellowstone of the era. But anyway. Why is that normal range so large?
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Do people then say, okay, my TSH is normal. Let's check the T3 and T4.
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You should. It's like, get off my back, get off my thyroid. I would love to know, what about the metabolism? Is it the temperature gauge that is speeding it up? Or is your body converting more energy to heat? Is that what's really contributing to the fluctuations?
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Okay, so we have a whole episode on metabolism, the evolutionary anthropology episode with Dr. Herman Ponser. But some of y'all wanted to know if what you're eating, like cutting out inflammatory foods, can help your thyroid get its shit together. And I'm looking at you, first-time question askers, Michaela Ballard and Marianne Mazinski.
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Kelly Paul, Felicia Chandler, a bunch of people wanted to know, can diet help manage Thyroid issues? Amy wants to know, Amy Johnson, any support for the autoimmune protocol diet helping reduce inflammation levels with hypothyroidism? Any suggestions on foods you should avoid or you should eat?
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Would like alcohol and sugar also be included in that?
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That was my next question. Also on the minds of Maya Lecker, who's a Graves disease haver, Danielle Bauris, Angie Doulas, and Annie Sayers, who asked, can stress make an underactive thyroid worse? Jen O wanted to know, so many symptoms associated with hypo or hyperthyroidism seem like they could also be caused by stress.
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or other common mental or physical issues, when should a person start to suspect thyroid issues specifically and prompt a discussion with their physician, especially without being looked at as a hypochondriac who spends too much time online listening to podcasts, they ask. Amazing question.
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Hypo means under, whereas hyper means above.
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Thyroidology (THYROID GLAND) with Kepal Patel
But yeah, how much is stress and common like mental or physical issues, how much does that have like an effect down the line?
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Kelly Shaver had a funny question. They said, I'm fat, and every doctor I have keeps insisting on doing thyroid blood tests, even though they're always fine. Why are they so obsessed with my thyroid?
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So this guest is a division chief of the NYU Langone Endocrine Surgery Department and a professor in the Department of Biochemistry and Molecular Pharmacology of Otolaryngology, Head and Neck Surgery. And we met up on a brisk afternoon in this tidy, elegant hospital conference room. And I asked so many questions and he didn't even bill us for them. He knows his stuff and he knows your stuff.
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Right. So it's keep looking if you suspect that there's something else going on. There are other tests to move on to, right? Absolutely. Okay. I thought this was a great question, Tiger Yudi and Greg Wallach. Greg asked, can you have Queen Anne eyebrows and your thyroid be fine? And Tiger Yudi wants to know, do thin eyebrows really lean toward poor thyroid function?
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The last half of the eyebrow sort of pieces out early from what I understand. And I have a friend whose mom was like, never pluck your eyebrows. Never. Mine never grew back in the last portion. And then it turned out she just had thyroid disease.
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I understand that there is a lot of blame for 90s eyebrows when really get your thyroid checked. Yeah, exactly. I'll have to do a little bit of an aside on that.
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Okay, this symptom is called eyebrow hypotrichosis, and a 2023 paper titled Eyebrow Loss and the Queen Anne Sign in Hypothyroidism said that loss of the outer third of the eyebrows is called the Queen Anne sign, and it's an uncommon manifestation of hypothyroidism. However... The exact mechanism of eyebrow loss only at the outer third portion, it's unknown. They don't know why it happens.
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And clinicians should consider hypothyroidism as a diagnosis for patients presenting with that loss of the outer third of the eyebrows, despite the fact that it doesn't happen very frequently. And I was like, who's Queen Anne? So this is named after Anne of Denmark, who was a 16th century hottie, who was a patron of the arts.
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and noted to be a woman of boundless intrigue, although others called her frivolous and self-indulgent. And those people are haters. But according to her official portraits, her eyebrow tails were like, see ya. And the reason for that is lost in the sands of time. Maybe she was hypothyroid, maybe not.
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So it's possible if you didn't over pluck the outer tails of your eyebrows, but they are MIA and you're also feeling cold, constipated and dry all over, you might wanna get that thyroid checked. Now, if you over plucked and you know it, let me direct you to the 2023 Live Science article. Why don't over plucked eyebrows fully grow back?
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Which essentially says that you abused the follicles so much they don't wanna come back to your eyebrow party. Like, you know how sometimes old guys who wear tube socks for decades have bald shins? It's like that. But now you have like permanent Kate Moss eyebrows. Now, there are worse things. But yeah, we have a whole episode on the drama of hair called Trichology. Now, brows be damned.
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And the difference between having, let's say, low thyroid hormone and having Hashimoto's. Hashimoto's, from what I understand, is your immune system being like, let's get this thyroid out of here. Get out of here. We don't like you. You're an invader. And you're like, this is my own thyroid.
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Let's talk about other hormones in the tomato soup of your body. Carol Young asked, is there a difference in thyroid functions between males assigned at birth and females assigned at birth? Midnight Cat and Brie Kahn's also asked about female hormone systems and thyroids.
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And what about Jay Ramsbald wanted to know, are there any thyroid implications for people assigned female at birth who are taking testosterone for gender affirming care? Does hormone replacement therapy have any role in thyroid issues?
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And even before pregnancy, hypothyroidism or low levels of T3 can disrupt ovulation and egg release and hinder the ability to conceive. Or if underlying causes like a pituitary issue or autoimmune disease is causing the hypothyroidism, it might also be thrown a wrench in getting a baby in there.
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Respectfully speaking to those who asked, Renee Wenger, Maddie Dennison, Sarah, Cassie Kenton, Danielle Sucher, and Amber McIntyre. why during pregnancy, your thyroid can also cause a bit of a hollow balloon.
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As someone who is on all kinds of hormones, who hasn't checked her thyroid in a while, can it go with the wind? Like, are you typically on a trajectory where if you have a thyroid issue, it's never going to resolve on its own?
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So if your body calms down somehow and stops over-provoking your poor, exhausted, overworked thyroid, things can chill and return to normal pretty suddenly, which is a big yay. And for those on the other end of the seesaw whose TSH is too high and the thyroid function is hypo or low... In general, though, if you have somebody who's headed towards...
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Hashimoto's is a type of autoimmune disorder where your body's immune system turns on itself and you're like, can you not? But Hashimoto's is not the cause of all underactive thyroids, aka hypothyroidism. You can have low thyroid hormone without it being caused by autoimmune Hashimoto's. Just like all cacti are succulents, but not all succulents are cacti.
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What about ways to prevent thyroid nodules? And I'm asking literally for a friend who has them. Erin, I got your back. She's like, I got another one I got to go check out. Anything that she can do in her power...
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When you palpate a thyroid, can you really feel if there's a nodule in there?
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So BFF and recent birthday girl, Erin, and patrons Emma Wren, Lydia Trom, and Addie Capello, who says, mine is just chilling, but I know they can become a problem for others. Keep an eye on them. Do people ever come in with just lymph nodes that are...
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And they're like, I have cancer. And you're like, that's a lymph node. You're good.
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You mentioned earlier thyroid cancer that could have spread. Are those like endometriosis? Is it like bits of thyroid tissue that are around that respond to radioactive iodine or-
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As opposed to like radiation gamma knife or something that can just zap one area, this can actually systemically go and find it.
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Nice. It's like they're kryptonite.
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What about libido and thyroids?
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Do people with Graves' disease get hornier?
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I didn't mean to. I was curious.
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Right, exactly. Yeah. What kind of heart rate do you have if you've got Graves' disease?
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So all Hashimoto's, hypothyroidism, not all hypothyroidism is Hashimoto's. Do those present differently?
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Right. Well, okay. One more question. Mercedes Tarasovic, Hannah at Serrano Hudson. What's the connection between hypothyroidism and chronic uticaria, which are hives, right? What's up with hives and thyroids?
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Good to know. Hardest part about your job?
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What sucks the most? It can be anything. It can be petty. It can be huge.
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You're like, I have nothing outside.
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Rather be palpating thyroids than filing paperwork.
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One insurance scholar, Jay Feynman, wrote in a recent op-ed piece that in the murkiness of health care insurance, when consumers need coverage, they discover that there are significant protection gaps. And for an expose on how, Feynman writes, the denial of valid insurance claims is not occasional or accidental or the fault of a few bad employees. It's the result of an increasing insecurity.
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and systematic focus on maximizing profits by major companies. You can see his 2010 book, Delay, Deny, Defend. Why insurance companies don't pay claims and what you can do about it. Best thing about your job. What do you love? I know you love your job, which is why I'm talking to you and not some other thyroid jabroni.
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Do you ever see someone come back after medication and they look and feel so much better?
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What about any myths that you would want to bust about thyroids? Any soapboxes you want to get on?
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When should someone get a second opinion?
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Okay, so this is confusing, but how doctors measure your thyroid function is by checking your TSH. That's thyroid stimulating hormone. So this hormone is like a measure of how much your body is pressing the gas pedal to try to get enough thyroid action.
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Yeah. So smart. Thank you so much for making me better friends with my own thyroid.
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I appreciate everything it's doing for me at the moment.
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I'm going to keep it. Thank you, doctor. on serious questions because sometimes those are the ones that most need the answers. And to find out more about Dr. Kapil Patel, see the links in the show notes as well as one to the charity of his choice, the American Association of Endocrine Surgeons or AAES. Thank you so much NYU for loaning him to us for that hour. What a time we had. I loved it.
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Say hi to us on social media. I'm at Ologies on Blue Sky, still at Ologies on Instagram and at Allie Ward on there too. We have shorter kid-friendly episodes called Smologies in their own feed now. Just search S-M-O-L-O-G-I-E-S wherever you get podcasts. Look for the new green artwork and hit subscribe. You can join Patreon at patreon.com slash ologies.
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You can find hats, totes, tees, and more at ologiesmerch.com too. Thank you so much to recent birthday girl and human gem, Erin Talbert, who admins the Ologies podcast Facebook group. I love you, Erin. I hate your thyroid. I'm sorry about it. Tell it to be nice. Aveline Malink makes our professional transcripts. Callie Ardoire does the website.
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Noelle Dilworth steers our calendar as scheduling producer. Susan Hale is the pituitary gland of a managing director. Jake Chafee is our T4 of an assistant editor. And the T3 that gets the episode out of the garage is Mercedes Maitland of Maitland Audio. Nick Thorburn has the aux and made the theme music. If you stick around to the end of the episode, I tell you a secret.
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And this week, it's that social media doom scrolling has become a problem because I'm not learning vital info about current events. I'm just like piecing together fragments of what's happening in the world based on other people's reactions to them and then the reactions to the reactions in the comments. And I spent...
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all day Saturday on my phone, on the couch, mindlessly locked in like a tractor beam of other people's front-facing camera, hot takes, not learning much.
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And so yesterday and today, I told myself, I said, if I looked at social media, I would have to donate $1,000 to a political action committee that goes against everything I stand for and harms women, trans people, immigrants, people of color, and our environment. If I scrolled social media, I would have to do that. Not wanting to give them $1,000 was a surefire way to keep me off of it.
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And I had a great day off social media, consuming more comprehensive news from reliable sources. So if you feel out of sorts and constantly scared, make a bet with yourself that you cannot afford to lose. Make the stakes so high that there's no way you will do the thing that you don't want to do. Cut bangs, text your crush, we're all going to die. So chin up, keep going. Bye-bye.
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So a low TSH means hyperthyroidism or an overactive gland because your body barely has to tap the gas pedal of TSH, but your thyroid is already off to the races. Now, a high TSH means your body is flooring it on the gas pedal so hard and not getting a lot of action to convert to energy. So a high TSH means low activity, hypothyroidism, and a low TSH means high activity or hyperthyroidism.
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Just think everything's the opposite, kind of. So walk me through a backstage of the thyroid and the thyroid hormone. It squirts out what T4 to thyroxine. Tell me what is it making and what is that effect?
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So the pituitary is at the wheel and at the gas pedal, and it makes that thyroid-stimulating hormone, or TSH. That tells the thyroid to release more gas, T4, and your organs say, thanks, man, I'm gonna break this down a little into T3 so we can use it for energy. So imagine your pituitary saying, We're not going anywhere. Where's the gas?
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So we'll talk about your stuff momentarily. But first, let's thank all the patrons at patreon.com slash ologies who make the show possible and send in their questions. You can be one of them if you like for just a dollar a month. Also, thanks to everyone in ologies merch from ologiesmerch.com. And if you need a kid-friendly version of the show, Just a reminder that we launched Smologies recently.
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Pumping out more TSH to be like, come on, come on, come on. Or if you have too much T4 converted to T3, your pituitary is like, whoa, easy, lead foot, and it releases less TSH.
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Where's the T4 hanging out when it's on call to be T3?
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Do you know why they're called T3 and T4? Yep.
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So what happens when you've got T3 in the body? Does it affect your adrenal systems? Does it affect cortisol?
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If you have a low heart rate, speaking from experience, at some point my doctors were like, wow, you're athletically healthy. And then I was like, or does my thyroid suck? Because I'm not running as much as I used to. It turned out my thyroid sucked a little bit. But when someone comes to your office and they say, I think my thyroid is, let's say sluggish, what are the first things you do?
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If they have symptoms of... hypothyroidism, but their labs are within range. Where do you go from there?
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So for TSH, that thyroid stimulating hormone, in range is typically set like 0.5 to 5.0. You could be anywhere in between there, but it varies by lab. And if a patient is feeling symptoms like for hypothyroid, dry skin, feeling cold a lot, low energy, your guts are slow, you got brittle hair, Maybe you feel like the embodiment of a cold, limp stalk of celery. That's sad.
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And you're in the upper end of the TSH range. Even though you're in range technically, some doctors might flag it and medicate with extra thyroid hormone or T4. Doctors can also see, no matter what your TSH is, how much T4 you're actually making. and test to see how well your organs are converting that to T3, which you can use.
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It's a spinoff podcast in its own feed. Link in the show notes. So thank you also to everyone who leaves reviews for the show. It matters so much to us and it helps boost the show in the charts and I read all of them. And this week, Positive Steps PDX wrote that they look forward to listening every week and that it's been rad to gain knowledge from fellow queer and trans folks.
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Now, there are medications like Synthroid, which the generic name is levothyroxine, and that is just T4, and it's kind of up to your body to make the T3 you need from it. Now, with Hashimoto's, the autoimmune issue where your immune system turns on your own thyroid, that is rude, and it's measured by high TSH as well as labs that measure antibodies to your own organ.
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Mm-hmm. Do people ever try to score thyroid hormone as like an ozempic?
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Yeah. So word of the wise, don't do it.
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Yeah. Just like get extra coffee. Does everyone's thyroid kind of poop out as we age?
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When it comes to women assigned female birth, what is the connection between autoimmune Hashimoto's and ovaries? What's going on?
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Castorology (BEAVERS) with Rob Rich
And what about you? Where did you grow up and when did you start wanting to be involved with tracking beavers and learning more about them? I've only seen maybe one or two in my life in Montana splashing from afar, but I know I'm fascinated with them. But when did it start for you?
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Okay, so Castorology, it's a study indeed. It comes from the root for Castor, which may come from the Greek for he who excels. And there's this big debate about whether this divine Greek mythological twin named Castor, who was worshiped as a healer, got his name from smelly beaver juice used as a medicine for millennia, or if it was the other way around. But we're here, it's now.
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You're talking about them as something that changes the ecosystem and can have a lot of impact on things like literally downstream. And humans, unfortunately, have kind of stepped into that role, not in good ways a lot. But I'm so curious about the beaver instinct. And they can have such huge impacts on environments.
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And I don't know how they know how to do that because I couldn't go just build a boat. by myself. I couldn't just go build a house by myself. How do beavers know how to chop down wood, how to stack it? What exactly are they doing with all of this instinct and how is it shaping the environment in their immediate way? What does it do for beavers to make dams and lodges?
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Wait, they don't need to build dams? Like all of them? I guess if you score an apartment next to a park, you don't need to erect a swing set in the front yard.
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So beavers making dams not only spread the stream water wider out, but deeper into the soils as well and into the groundwater. And for more, you can see Dr. Wohl's 2017 paper in the Journal of Water Resources Research titled, Beaver-Mediated Lateral Hydrologic Connectivity. Fluvial carbon and nutrient flux and aquatic ecosystems metabolism, which maybe you've already read.
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But if not, TLDR is that our beaver friends make complex watery environments and that those areas are a good sink for water when the streams run low and for carbon capture and nutrients for the rest of the ecosystems. Even hydrologists are like dam beavers. That's cool.
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Let's get to what patron Stratford Abbott calls swimming furry chainsaws.
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So they're kind of shoring up that river. It spreads out. It gets deeper. And then naturally, willows and other things use that water source to grow into it. They create this new little ecosystem where more things start to thrive there.
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And let's talk about baby beavers, tooth tools, lodges, dams, the sound of water, the slap of a tail, who eats beaver and why, the best beaver real estate, the plight of the beaver, hats, whiskey, beavers and folklore, in joke books, in your neighborhood and in your dreams forever with naturalist, wildlife ecologist, tracker, and castorologist, Rob Rich.
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Well, if they get up and go, if they're like, not as much here, and they get up and go, do they have to build an entirely new dam? Or do they ever find abandoned dams from other beavers? And they're like, this is pretty good.
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You know, it always boggles me to hear how fast a spider, like an orb weaver, can spin a web. Kind of the timeline of how different organisms create things, I think it can be really surprising. But when it comes to making a dam, and I know there are really huge ranges probably in sizes, but are they working on it for like a year? Is it a multi-year project?
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Or do they say, all right, let's chew some trees down. Let's get this thing done. And it's like pretty fast.
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Not only that, but they tend to work the night shift, and they dig out trails and even canals to float sticks and tree trunks toward the dams. They're making log rides.
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How are they making those dams? Are they threading different size diameter trunks and sticks? Is it almost like they're weaving it or are they piling it and then kind of plugging in gaps?
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And with a pair of beavers, are they both working on it typically? Or do they ever get the yearlings in on it? Like, hey, you're going to have to do this eventually. Go grab me some mud.
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You know, you mentioned, obviously we're talking baby beavers. Sometimes a wildlife rehabber will have videos of baby beavers and they're very fuzzy and very cute. And I've seen videos of them taking all the towels or toys or items around them and trying to plug up a doorway with them?
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And I imagine that's got to be instinctual, but do they start looking for stuff to push around even when they're little, little?
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This reminds me of when my nephew Mason wanted to play this video game. And it was just a video game about working at a diner, making sandwiches and burgers. And we're like, you know, Mason, one day you can do this for as long as you want. And they give you money for it. You're never going to believe it. It's called a job.
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But yeah, that video I saw, which was uploaded to YouTube in 2022, is titled, Rescue Beaver Makes Christmas Dam In-House. And it features a rescue beaver scooting down a nice hardwood-floored hallway and stacking items, including a flip-flop, a SpongeBob SquarePants plush toy, a small Christmas tree, a rag rug, a teddy bear, and a full roll of red, shiny wrapping paper.
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And castorology, this seems like it's something that's been in the books before. Do beaver people call themselves castorologists?
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And at times this beaver pauses thoughtfully, just blinking, touching his tiny hands together, as you might when you have walked into the kitchen, but you've forgotten why. Now, the uploader, Holly Muraco, writes in the video's description that this beaver is being raised by wildlife rehabbers after being orphaned as a newborn. Her parents were killed and their dam and lodge destroyed.
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Beavers are classified as nuisance animals in many U.S. states, Holly writes, and can be killed anytime. Beavers need to spend two years with their human rehabbers and have lots of opportunities to practice instinctive behaviors. This beaver enjoys playing this game inside the house, but lives with the other orphaned beavers outside most of the time.
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Now, Holly, who works with the Woodside Wildlife Rescue in Mississippi, writes, this misunderstood and unique species needs lots of love. And I want to reach into this video and I want to pet this big rodent. I want to tell it it's doing a good job of stacking all of those objects together. I want to softly pat its big weird tail because I love it.
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A question I feel like I have never gotten to ask someone who gets to study and learn about beavers, but what's with their tail? How big is it? Is that all skin or is it hairy? It looks like a big cactus leaf, kind of. What does that feel or look like?
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I never thought of it this once in my life before, but are there bones in the tail? There've got to be. Is it like a dog tail, but just real flat and big?
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I never realized that. I would have thought it was kind of like a mat of leather. We have so many questions from listeners that are very excited to have a beaver expert on. Can I ask you some listener questions?
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Okay. They knew you were coming on. We've organized them as best we can. into some categories. I thought this was a great question. Shannon O'Grady, Olivia Lester, Onyx Monolith, Rachel Prestanko, Ash Mickelright, Gemma, Shirley Lozanobo, Addie Capello, and Alexandra Rambeau. They want to know about their teeth. How are they so strong? Alexandra asks, has the strength of their teeth been measured?
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I love that they have the term beaver believer because I think not all species get a catchy name like that.
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What are they comparable to? Onyx wanted to know, is it comparable to like tigers and alligators? What kind of jaw and teeth strength are they working with? And we will get to the root of that tooth question in a minute, including why they are the color of a tangerine. But first, we donate to a cause of theologist choosing.
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Castorology (BEAVERS) with Rob Rich
And this week, the wonderful Rob Rich selected Tracker Certification North America, which aims to create a future where ecological literacy is common, valued, and accessible to all. And they do this by providing education, resources, support, and professional certification for all who aim to improve their skills as wildlife trackers. either recreationally or professionally.
Ologies with Alie Ward
Castorology (BEAVERS) with Rob Rich
And they explain that wildlife tracking is a field science, which helps identify and interpret the signs of animal activity and wildlife observations amid a changing world. It also gives people a feeling of a meaningful connection with the landscapes. So that was Tracker Certification North America, with whom Rob works. So thank you to our show sponsors for enabling that donation.
Ologies with Alie Ward
Castorology (BEAVERS) with Rob Rich
Okay, and folks submitting questions are patrons of Ologies at patreon.com slash ologies. You can join for a dollar. And we're all eager to get back to the beaver questions. What's with those teeth?
Ologies with Alie Ward
Castorology (BEAVERS) with Rob Rich
And where are you right now? Can you set the scene? You're in Montana?
Ologies with Alie Ward
Castorology (BEAVERS) with Rob Rich
And for patron Alexander Rambo, hi, hey, who asked, has the strength of their teeth been measured and what are they comparable to? It's about 180 pounds per square inch, which is greater than the 150 or so of a human's, but it's a lot less than the 1,000 pounds per square inch that a Bengal tiger or a grizzly would use to snap your bones. Maybe it's because trees can't run away from beavers.
Ologies with Alie Ward
Castorology (BEAVERS) with Rob Rich
Oh, hey, it's the lady at the donut store who knows that you like bear claws. Allie Ward, this is ologies. This is beavers. Finally, the beavers are here and ushering them in is an absolutely delightful beaver man who is a field naturalist and a conservationist who does a ton of biological surveys and teaches wildlife tracking and beaver ecology. and he writes about the beaver as well.
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Castorology (BEAVERS) with Rob Rich
They can kind of just succumb to their fate being savored bite by bite as slow as they want to. I don't know. I'm neither a tree nor a beaver.
Ologies with Alie Ward
Castorology (BEAVERS) with Rob Rich
So our exposed teeth, your exposed teeth, if you're listening to this, have hard enamel on all sides, but touch the back of your teeth with your tongue. So in a beaver, that side is softer. So their teeth are self-sharpening because the harder marmalade-colored enameled front surface of the bottom teeth wears down the soft backside of the uppers.
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Castorology (BEAVERS) with Rob Rich
So you've got yourself a whole set of mouth shivs taking down trees, ready to go. Now, according to the 2018 paper, a mathematical model of beaver incisor tooth morphology, beavers' front teeth, they just keep getting worn down and growing its whole life.
Ologies with Alie Ward
Castorology (BEAVERS) with Rob Rich
They grow a total length of about six feet in its life, which I guess when you consider that they are an entire tool chest for building stuff, and they are also your silverware, it's kind of a worthwhile metabolic investment for the beaver. Some folks asked about diet, and I had never thought about this before because, honestly, I just figured they ate fish and frogs and stuff.
Ologies with Alie Ward
Castorology (BEAVERS) with Rob Rich
But Eli, the fish guy, Moe, Prince Nocturnal, Amanda, Key Lime Pie, Shannon O'Grady, Jim, Ziz, Sam and Katie, and Jackie G wanted to know, in Sam and Katie's words, what do they eat? Do they eat any of the bark from the trees they use for their dams? Shannon O'Grady said, do they eat wood? Do they eat fish? And Jackie G says, do beavers really poop sawdust?
Ologies with Alie Ward
Castorology (BEAVERS) with Rob Rich
No idea what a beaver eats, to be honest.
Ologies with Alie Ward
Castorology (BEAVERS) with Rob Rich
Oh, so the beavers followed the glaciers down in their evolution to where there was water, the beavers went.
Ologies with Alie Ward
Castorology (BEAVERS) with Rob Rich
So yes, they eat trees, people. They eat trees. And for more on the different layers inside the tree, which is the most delicious, you can see our wonderful dendrology episode with J. Casey Clapp of the Completely Arbitrary podcast. We also have a scatology episode, and that is about animal poop. Speaking of, what is a beaver log like? What's coming out of their wood chipper?
Ologies with Alie Ward
Castorology (BEAVERS) with Rob Rich
All we are is dust in the wind. All we are is beaver scat in a pond. Jacob Ellsbury says, I've never seen a beaver before, but I see their chew marks everywhere. Where do they go? Maya wants to know, are they nocturnal or did I make that up? Sidonia wants to know, how can I increase my likelihood of seeing them?
Ologies with Alie Ward
Castorology (BEAVERS) with Rob Rich
Oh, okay. So, but get up early. When it comes to them getting up versus sleeping, a lot of folks wanted to ask about their lodges. And I did not know there was a difference really between a lodge and a dam. I don't know why I never thought about that.
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Castorology (BEAVERS) with Rob Rich
Megan Walker, Adam Foote, Katie Bauer, Stephanie Rosso, Amanda Lander, Haley Kirby, Jeanetta Soar, Valerie Bertha, first-time quest asker Jean Genoir, all wanted to know what the vibe is in a beaver lodge. What's it like in there? Rebecca King wanted to know, is their lodge really impenetrable by bears? But Ghoul Next Door asked, I was always enchanted by their homes as a kid.
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Castorology (BEAVERS) with Rob Rich
And I imagine they had beautifully furnished, cozy living rooms down there. But what are those dens like? And is it one big room? Is it a different little kind of nests off of one big space? Other folks wanted to know if they all kind of cohabitate with more than just their family or with other animals. Kind of what's happening in their lodges?
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Castorology (BEAVERS) with Rob Rich
Okay, so Rob, already established, he's amazing. He sent me a link to Casey McFarland's video of an abandoned beaver dam. His whole YouTube channel is great, but this video is titled Inside a Beaver Lodge and Cross-Section of a Dam, where he's able to peek inside an opening that was previously underwater.
Ologies with Alie Ward
Castorology (BEAVERS) with Rob Rich
And you mentioned North America. Where else in the world do beavers live? Are they just a North American species? I feel like I should know this, but I feel like maybe zoos all over the world have beavers, but do they naturally occur in other places?
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Castorology (BEAVERS) with Rob Rich
Casey scoots through some shallow water and into a clearing in this giant 10-foot mound of sticks. And inside, we see what looks like a collapsed barn. There is timber of every diameter and hard-packed mud and almost a ramp that leads to a platform toward the back.
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Castorology (BEAVERS) with Rob Rich
I gotta say, it's pretty freaking cool to see inside a beaver lodge.
Ologies with Alie Ward
Castorology (BEAVERS) with Rob Rich
Do beavers winter in their lodges or somewhere else? Do they hibernate? Joe Dauphiné and Megan Walker wanted to know about ice holes. Joe said that they had a natural history professor who said that beavers smash the ice with their head to create a path for them to swim, and then they come up and breathe during the winter months. Other people say that doesn't happen.
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Castorology (BEAVERS) with Rob Rich
But yeah, in some winter behavior, how much sleeping versus how much activity?
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Castorology (BEAVERS) with Rob Rich
So when it's so cold that a beaver's habitat is too iced over to even slam their head into, they stay just in their dry above land lodge, but they take that ramp down into the water and the entrance is usually underwater. They swim underneath the ice sheets on the surface of the pond or the lake to get to their aquatic pantry of sticks to eat.
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Castorology (BEAVERS) with Rob Rich
And then they swim back under the ice to the opening to their lodge. All of that when things look still on the surface. Winter for them means going so hard but looking so low-key.
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Castorology (BEAVERS) with Rob Rich
You know, you mentioned the fur, and I know that their fur has played a huge part, too, in their decline. And Catherine Vela and Gemma wanted to know, what does their fur feel like? Is it wiry or is it coarse? Megan Walker wants to know, how does it not get soaked through?
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Castorology (BEAVERS) with Rob Rich
And first-time question asker Rebecca Morrison asked, what is it about beavers and their fur that made them so popular for trapping and trade? Sam and Katie asked simply... And I imagine with a tremble in their voice, is it soft? And that thickness obviously must keep them nice and dry or at least warm during the winter. Can you tell us a little bit about the fur?
Ologies with Alie Ward
Castorology (BEAVERS) with Rob Rich
On your scalp, if you grow hair there, you've got about 150 hairs per square centimeter. Beavers have 150 times that, up to 23,000 hairs per square centimeter. And they never wash it, and it's shiny. And for product, they use an organic finishing oil sourced from their own ass sacks. Obsessed.
Ologies with Alie Ward
Castorology (BEAVERS) with Rob Rich
Well, you mentioned that fatty tail and Naya Squirrel or Nia Squirrel, first time question asker, wanted to know if you've heard what the tail tasted like and if it's true that at one time this is a highly sought after delicacy and some other folks wanted to know beaver meat. This was an audio question from one Dr. Tegan Wall.
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Castorology (BEAVERS) with Rob Rich
Do people eat them? I know they're hunted and trapped for fur, but is their meat source something that's actually still sought after?
Ologies with Alie Ward
Castorology (BEAVERS) with Rob Rich
So in a Harvard University article titled, Damned If They Do, one beaver conservationist and environmental engineer, Jordan Kennedy, explained that the beaver is considered one of the fundamental animals of creation in blackfeet culture.
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Castorology (BEAVERS) with Rob Rich
So when trappers started to expand west into what's now Montana, the blackfeet nations who revere the beaver were not typically willing to help them with their trapping within that territory. And as a result, the animals weren't wiped out the way they were in much of North America.
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Castorology (BEAVERS) with Rob Rich
And resources at this website, blackfeetclimatechange.com, describe ecological projects in homage of the beaver, saying that beaver mimicry is this restoration technique that has been gaining popularity due to its cheap and easy and effective application.
Ologies with Alie Ward
Castorology (BEAVERS) with Rob Rich
The fossil record dates back 33 million years with 33 beaver genera. That's not even species. So many beaver options.
Ologies with Alie Ward
Castorology (BEAVERS) with Rob Rich
So there's this pilot project that they're working on exploring the use of beaver mimicry as a restoration and educational activity in the Blackfeet Nation. However, in some places where locals are still at war with the beavers, industriousness and their architecture, trapping is legal. And folks enjoy not just the thick pelts, but the meat too.
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Castorology (BEAVERS) with Rob Rich
And I found a 2022 article titled, How to Eat a Beaver. And it describes it similar to elk or bison with a deep woodsy character. And it reads that the meat is clean and sweet smelling, garnet colored and lean with a thick cap of pristine fat under the skin. As for the other eating beaver, that's a whole different episode.
Ologies with Alie Ward
Castorology (BEAVERS) with Rob Rich
And we have ones on sexology and gynecology, as well as phallology for anyone feeling left out. Why are there so many beaver innuendos? I'm glad you asked, Mouse Paxton, Pavka34, Lauren Otto, Katie Muray, G. Sharon, Annie G., Hannah Riedel, Rebecca King, Waldron, and Spencer Aldridge. So, we're all wondering, and I looked into this, right?
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Castorology (BEAVERS) with Rob Rich
So, in the 1920s, a fad went around London, and a 1922 Associated Press article bore the headline, English Lord Tells of Game of Beaver, and it contained some thrillingly Bridgerton sentences. I'll read them.
Ologies with Alie Ward
Castorology (BEAVERS) with Rob Rich
Lord and Lady Mountbatten, she is one of England's prettiest and richest women, and he is King George's cousin, decided today they would attend the World Series and compare it with London's new outdoor sport, beaver. Beaver, said Lord Mountbatten, is a street game anyone can play. You walk along with a friend. If you spot a chap with a beard, you call out, "'Beaver!' That counts 15 points."
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Castorology (BEAVERS) with Rob Rich
If it is a white beard, this is a polar beaver and counts 30. You score as in tennis, the winner makes the loser buy the drinks, and it is driving beards right out of London, Lord Mountbatten says.
Ologies with Alie Ward
Castorology (BEAVERS) with Rob Rich
Now, there was another 1922 article in the Columbia, Missouri Evening Missourian News, and it wrote that the unwhiskered have entered joyfully into the game and try to spot a beaver before their fellows. Okay, great game, got it. But then five years later...
Ologies with Alie Ward
Castorology (BEAVERS) with Rob Rich
A 1927 book of poetry titled Immortalia, an anthology of American ballads, sailor songs, cowboy songs, college songs, parodies, limericks, and other humorous verses in doggerel contained a limerick. It read, there once was a lady named Eva who filled up a bath to receive a. She took off her clothes from her head to her toes when a voice at the keyhole yelled, beaver.
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Castorology (BEAVERS) with Rob Rich
So this book is still in print and one modern reviewer praised, this is a most fabulous collection of the smut our forefathers actually giggled about in taverns. So there you have it, from beaver to beaver to beaver. Bring that up at dinner or a New Year's party, or if there's a lull in the conversation, or maybe bring it up at Easter.
Ologies with Alie Ward
Castorology (BEAVERS) with Rob Rich
Since yes, Jen Ringney and Rowan Doyle, the Catholic Church does consider beavers to be fish because they are aquatic. And for more on all of that, to see our wonderful capybara episode because if you're Catholic, those big rodents are also fish. Nothing makes sense. Sometimes I get very mad about it. Onward.
Ologies with Alie Ward
Castorology (BEAVERS) with Rob Rich
Aveline is a first-time question asker and says they're from Canada and they've met a trapper who has an annual quota of beavers he must trap and says that without human control, they would essentially wreck our world, the human and water infrastructure.
Ologies with Alie Ward
Castorology (BEAVERS) with Rob Rich
Other patrons, Rebecca Morrison, Will, Caitlin O'Malley, Mish the Fish, Jay Shea, and Tyler Williams asked about historical trappings and the fur trade causing this steep decline in beaver populations and the sustainability of current beaver trapping. Are we trying to preserve or cull numbers? What's happening?
Ologies with Alie Ward
Castorology (BEAVERS) with Rob Rich
That is up to 400 million beaver on the continent, down to 100,000. So over a few centuries of colonization, the percentage of beaver population remaining was one quarter of 1%. 99.75% of the beavers had been killed right off.
Ologies with Alie Ward
Castorology (BEAVERS) with Rob Rich
Do they have more than one litter each year? It seems like just a having two a year, they wouldn't be multiplying that fast, right? Or are they pretty prolific?
Ologies with Alie Ward
Castorology (BEAVERS) with Rob Rich
You mentioned summer, too, and I had a really sweet question asked by a first-time question asker, Sarah Moore, who says that they have been listening to the show for years and have been saving their first question for the beavers episode. And they said, a few years ago, I was camping in Colorado, and I observed through binoculars a group of beavers swimming around and playing with a duck.
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Castorology (BEAVERS) with Rob Rich
And they say, I don't know how else to describe it, but they were all swimming around and doing little splashes and twirls and playing. Maybe I'm projecting, Sarah writes, but it looked like they were having so much fun. My question is, am I crazy? Do beavers play? And is it possible they'd ever play with another species?
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Castorology (BEAVERS) with Rob Rich
Christy Sullivan was another listener who says, just a side note, that there's a beaver that lives in the creek that runs through the neighborhood. And they say, we love him. It's a highlight of our walks to see him swimming around with the ducks and geese. I guess maybe they do love ducks and geese.
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Castorology (BEAVERS) with Rob Rich
Huge beavers, bear-sized beavers, and some that dug spiral tunnels. They are gone, but they are never going to be forgotten. Please tell all of your friends.
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Castorology (BEAVERS) with Rob Rich
Go figure. I guess they do play around. Knowing that they do play, that you have seen that. Someone else, a first-time question asker, Fiona Blum, who's been waiting for this topic also, wondered if you had heard of the beaver deceiver devices and are the beavers outsmarting us? It seems like they might be. Can they be strategic like that? And have you heard of these beaver deceiver devices?
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Castorology (BEAVERS) with Rob Rich
Okay, so I assumed that a beaver deceiver was some kind of ultrasonic technology that made beavers think that a culvert was haunted. But it turns out that Skip Lyle, a one-time construction worker who later got his master's in wildlife management, inspired by beavers, he invented a kind of fencing system around these big drain pipes for streams.
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Castorology (BEAVERS) with Rob Rich
that prevents the beavers from jamming up the culverts themselves. But it still lets the water flow under the road because beavers, they love a big pipe with water. They love it.
Ologies with Alie Ward
Castorology (BEAVERS) with Rob Rich
A lot of people had queries about parachutes. And some people might know this, some people might not. But Jenny Rounds and Andrea Levinson, Nikki Aki, Jen Squirrel Alvarez, Therese, Erin White, all wanted to know. In Andrea's words, I'm begging you to ask about the parachute reintroduction efforts from the 40s and parachuting beavers.
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Castorology (BEAVERS) with Rob Rich
Was that ever a rabbit hole that you went down in terms of what's going on here?
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Castorology (BEAVERS) with Rob Rich
I cannot imagine a beaver so big. That's unfathomable to me. Not unsurprising, but what about modern day beavers? Let's say the North American ones, or I'm not sure they differ much with Eurasian, but how big are they? If I were to, let's say, just be blessed with the ability to hold a beaver, is it like a sack of potatoes? Are they smaller than we think?
Ologies with Alie Ward
Castorology (BEAVERS) with Rob Rich
So like an expensive cafe that suddenly pops up in your neighborhood full of gas station coffee, a beaver can change the ecosystem of an area.
Ologies with Alie Ward
Castorology (BEAVERS) with Rob Rich
And many people, Autumn Nikosin, Keegan Newman, Rowan Tree, Aver, Zink, Melissa Dewoskin, Olivia Rempel, Smiley Kylie, Maria Schoener, Juliet, Stratford Abbott, Emily Totaro, Amanda, Abby Lawson, Megan Radcliffe, Issa Party, and Ghoul Next Door wondered about the beaver's role in engineering ecosystems as a keystone species. which is an ecological term for being the main character.
Ologies with Alie Ward
Castorology (BEAVERS) with Rob Rich
Child fam and Shannon Strom, in Child's words, they say, are beavers the answer? My husband is a fish biologist and feels that in terms of habitat restoration and protecting rivers and the species that live in them, beavers are the answer. Is this true? And are beavers also just generally the answer because they're great?
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Castorology (BEAVERS) with Rob Rich
And Shannon Strom wanted to know, should we think of them as nature's miracles against global warming? Is making sure that beavers are protected also protective for us?
Ologies with Alie Ward
Castorology (BEAVERS) with Rob Rich
I can't even get my head around because I see them from so far away if I ever get to see them.
Ologies with Alie Ward
Castorology (BEAVERS) with Rob Rich
So 2014, Brangelina gets wed. Gwyneth Paltrow famously consciously uncouples. The first season of True Detective premieres. It was a very big year for tight jeans, Iggy Azalea, and Ebola. But it was also very memorable for the beaver.
Ologies with Alie Ward
Castorology (BEAVERS) with Rob Rich
He's a coordinator for the National Wildlife Federation's Montana Beaver Working Group, and he knows so much about beavers. So he spoke to me one morning from his chilly house in the Swan Valley outside of Missoula, Montana. He was wearing a coat and a hat, and a warm smile. And we just we had the loveliest time chatting beavers as I knew that we would. So we're going to get to it in a moment.
Ologies with Alie Ward
Castorology (BEAVERS) with Rob Rich
And how do beavers need more castorologists out there? Zoe Dunham, first-time quest jasker, Lisa Nyhuls, Andy Pepper, and Celia Stanislaw wanted to know, in Zoe's words, how does one get into researching beavers? If someone's interested in beaver ecology, what things they could study or what you do when you're working with tracking organizations?
Ologies with Alie Ward
Castorology (BEAVERS) with Rob Rich
Is there a part of working with beaver tracking that is either annoying or just the most difficult part?
Ologies with Alie Ward
Castorology (BEAVERS) with Rob Rich
Yeah. So invasive species, a bunch of weird weeds getting all tangled up in the ecology. And for more on how to eat some of those, the weeds, not the beavers, you can see our foraging ecology episode with Alexis Nelson, aka Black Forager. Or to learn how to basket weave some of those weeds, you can see our recent canistermology episode with James Bamba.
Ologies with Alie Ward
Castorology (BEAVERS) with Rob Rich
Now, before I ask about the highlights of Rob's life, one thing is nagging at me and I can't stop thinking about it. Also, when do people say beavers versus beaver?
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Castorology (BEAVERS) with Rob Rich
Okay. I want to make sure I wasn't doing it wrong. But what about your favorite thing about beavers or beaver?
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Castorology (BEAVERS) with Rob Rich
um thank you so much for just telling us everything you know about beaver and beavers and i already loved them and not just because they're cute i think they're just cool in general so thank you so much for everything you do and for talking to me yes thank you um So ask beaver geniuses deep and shallow questions and may fortune find you in the midst of these critters. They're majestic.
Ologies with Alie Ward
Castorology (BEAVERS) with Rob Rich
Thank you again so much to Rob Rich for talking to me. So worth the wait. And to find out more about the tracker certification, North America, you can see the link in the show notes as well as a link to our website at alleyward.com slash ologies slash castorology, which has so many more links to research and other resources that we mentioned in the show.
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Castorology (BEAVERS) with Rob Rich
We are at ologies on Instagram and out blue sky. I'm at alleyward on both. We also have shorter kid-friendly versions of Ologies Classic episodes in case you need G-rated ones. They're available anywhere where you get podcasts. You can just subscribe to Smologies and look for the new green logo. We also linked in the show notes. Ologies merch is available at ologiesmerch.com.
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And to join the Patreon, head to patreon.com slash ologies. Thank you to Aaron Talbert for adminning Theology's podcast Facebook group. Thank you, Aveline Malick, for making our professional transcripts. Kelly R. Dwyer makes the website. Scheduling producer Noelle Dilworth worked for two and a half years to get this one on the books. Susan Hale managing directs the whole show.
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Jake Chafee edits beautifully and joining him just as busy and chill as a beaver is lead editor Mercedes Maitland of Maitland Audio. Nick Thorburn wrote the theme music. And if you stick around till after the credits, thank you for listening. Here's a secret that the other people don't know.
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So in 2017, I was toying with this format for Ologies and I was trying to figure out just what the show would be. And I had a few trusted friends listen to some early drafts of episodes. And one, Dr. Tegan Wall, who was a neuroscientist and a screenwriter,
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Castorology (BEAVERS) with Rob Rich
She took a listen and one suggestion that she still maintains is that the show should have a cold open, that little stinger at the top with an excerpt as like a soundbite sample. And I've never done it until this episode. And so I'm doing it in honor of her. So you can let me know on Patreon if you like it. Teagues, you can just text me about it.
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But meanwhile, I had the best cookies of my life at our friend Aubrey and with a, I think a family recipe, and I'm gonna give it to you now. Don't write it down if you're driving. Wait until after. You can come back later, rewind, find this, then jot it down. Okay, so these are thumbprint cookies with like jam in the center, but the cookie is so soft. There's cream cheese in the dough.
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Castorology (BEAVERS) with Rob Rich
I ate like 10 of them. Okay. These are cream cheese cookies. Ready? Two cups unsalted butter, eight ounces cream cheese, two cups of sugar, two egg yolks, one teaspoon of vanilla, two teaspoons of salt, five cups of flour. Do the wet stuff. You add the dry stuff. Chill overnight. And then you roll into balls and you indent and you put some jam in the middle. Bake at 400, 8 to 10 minutes.
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Castorology (BEAVERS) with Rob Rich
You know what weighs a pound? Like a big apple or an orange. A baby beaver the size of a piece of fruit. In fact, one rehabber site I went to described them thusly. A healthy kit looks like a large fuzzy softball with a rubber-like tail. They're so tiny. How many are in a litter?
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Castorology (BEAVERS) with Rob Rich
Honestly, the best cookies I've ever had. Please enjoy. Be safe. Happy holidays. Be kind to beavers. Bye-bye.
Ologies with Alie Ward
Castorology (BEAVERS) with Rob Rich
And they're monogamous? How long do they tend to stick together for?
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Castorology (BEAVERS) with Rob Rich
Beavers. They love love. We love them for it. Although some North American beavers do cheat, I found out. But the Eurasian ones are pretty much totally loyal. But beavers co-parent, which is more than we can say for a lot of bitter couples that I see posting on TikTok.
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Castorology (BEAVERS) with Rob Rich
I'm so glad that you brought up that gland because I'm boggled by it. And I didn't know that castoreum was a product necessarily. Is it really used for things like artificial vanilla and strawberry and raspberry? Is there any known history on how humans realized that these scent mounds and that these secretions from beavers would be delicious additives to things?
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Castorology (BEAVERS) with Rob Rich
But first, thank you to all the patrons at patreon.com slash ologies who submitted questions for this. You too can join for as little as a dollar a month to support the show. Thanks for everyone in ologies merch at ologiesmerch.com. And to everyone who reviews the show, which helps us so much, it costs you $0.
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Okay, so I looked into this and castoreum is again, not in the anal glands, but in these different pouches near there. And yes, both male and female beavers make it. Everyone makes it. Not you, but beavers do. And this unctuous, creamy orange substance has vanilla notes and suggests the smell of an old leather chair and a den full of antique books.
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Castorology (BEAVERS) with Rob Rich
And I've read that's owing to all the trees that kind of make their way through beaver guts. And you can gently milk castoreum from a beaver, but that is seen as very rude to many beavers. So sadly, most of it comes from trappers who harvest the sack. And they sometimes let that sack dry out and mellow for a few years before grinding it up.
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Castorology (BEAVERS) with Rob Rich
Now, other than actively seeking it out, you're not likely to find castoreum like hiding in your foods. It's just much cheaper to use actual vanilla or artificial vanilla flavor, a lot easier to harvest. So it's rare to find anything with castoreum on a shelf.
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Castorology (BEAVERS) with Rob Rich
Although that liquor that Rob mentioned, it sounds extremely German in concept, and its name has umlauts, and it translates to beaver howl, but it's actually Swedish. And my dear friend Simone Jetsch happens to be both Swedish and in Sweden. And so I texted her and her mom at an ungodly time for me, but it was a normal person time for Sweden.
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Castorology (BEAVERS) with Rob Rich
And I asked if this was like a common beverage and she was like, no, no, I've never heard of that. But there's this place called Tamworth Distillery in the US and they do offer an eau de musk beaver gland perfumed whiskey in case you need to get your hands and your tongues on that. Why would you though?
Ologies with Alie Ward
Castorology (BEAVERS) with Rob Rich
Well, it's supposed to be tasty, but also for thousands of years it was used to treat gout and fevers and headaches and other ailments. But the 1969 publication Pliny's Pheromonic Abortifacients in the journal Science says that castoreum used as an incense could provide the termination of a pregnancy. according to the Roman naturalist Pliny, who lived in the first century AD.
Ologies with Alie Ward
Castorology (BEAVERS) with Rob Rich
What else was used back then as family planning? Well, your other options were looking at a viper, holding a raven's egg, stepping over a beaver, Or letting pass into your crotch the fumes from an ass's house. And the paper notes parenthetically donkey stable.
Ologies with Alie Ward
Castorology (BEAVERS) with Rob Rich
But thanks to several thousand years of progress medically, one need not dance over a beaver or invite donkey fumes up your tunic because there are pharmaceuticals now. But while here in the US, many states have rolled back access to that health care to pre-castoreum in a lantern times. But anyway, rodent secretions, many uses throughout the years.
Ologies with Alie Ward
Castorology (BEAVERS) with Rob Rich
I read them all, such as this week's from Maximilie, who wrote, I have been a dedicated listener since the inception of this podcast in 2017. Max, seven and a half years. You're a real one. I like you. Thank you for that. Thank you to everyone who leaves reviews. And thank you also to sponsors of the show who make it possible to donate to a cause selected by the guest each week. So one sec.
Ologies with Alie Ward
Castorology (BEAVERS) with Rob Rich
But no, your birthday cake flavored lip gloss does not have beaver butt in it. You're good.
Ologies with Alie Ward
Castorology (BEAVERS) with Rob Rich
And you can smell it when you're out looking for beavers or if you're out in the fields. Is it something like the breeze shifts and then suddenly you can smell a mound?
Ologies with Alie Ward
Castorology (BEAVERS) with Rob Rich
Do you have any idea how far away you are from a beaver right now? Like where you live in the Swan Valley, do you know when I cross this bridge into town, there's a dam or a lodge there? Are you pretty aware of where they are in your local environment?
Ologies with Alie Ward
Eudemonology (HAPPINESS) Encore with Laurie Santos
Oh, hello. 2024 Allie here. This is an encore while I am napping in a human-sized dog bed in front of a fireplace for the holidays. What a way to start 2025, folks. I wanted you to have this episode at the beginning of January. This is a reminder of scientifically what actually makes us happy and keeps us happy. We all need this one. Please enjoy. I love it. I'm happy to have you listen.
Ologies with Alie Ward
Eudemonology (HAPPINESS) Encore with Laurie Santos
Do you feel like your friends come to you for more pep talks or fewer because they just look at your published work instead?
Ologies with Alie Ward
Eudemonology (HAPPINESS) Encore with Laurie Santos
Shit, am I not supposed to talk about podcast episodes with my friends? Because I've told a lot of people about wildfires and how lizards have two dogs. Let's change the subject. Well, let's get into some of those factors, because I know that you you rattled them off. And it's a lot of things that we we feel like we know, but we don't necessarily know why or the mechanisms of how that works.
Ologies with Alie Ward
Eudemonology (HAPPINESS) Encore with Laurie Santos
You know, exercise, practicing gratitude. Can you run me down those things? And in a nutshell, tell me why they why do they work?
Ologies with Alie Ward
Eudemonology (HAPPINESS) Encore with Laurie Santos
So for more on a daily practice of looking for things that aren't the fucking worst, I linked the Awesomeology episode in the show notes. Also, learning this next term killed me. I'm dead. I'm a fungus now.
Ologies with Alie Ward
Eudemonology (HAPPINESS) Encore with Laurie Santos
They keep me from crying on days that are challenging. Also, heads up, if you prefer podcasts without swearing, we have a slew of them. They're called Smologies and you can subscribe to Smologies now. Wherever you get podcasts, they're in their own separate feed in case you need to listen while you carpool to school. Okay. Thank you to all the patrons who left questions for this ologist.
Ologies with Alie Ward
Eudemonology (HAPPINESS) Encore with Laurie Santos
So connecting with people, talking face to face is better for us than just text. The phone works too. FaceTime is even better than the phone. Also helping others when you can, looking for lovely, shiny things amid the compost pile that can feel like life. Also sleep and exercise. It can be immediate or like exercise.
Ologies with Alie Ward
Eudemonology (HAPPINESS) Encore with Laurie Santos
It can be a few weeks before these habits really take root and you start to feel better. So don't give up. Give it a few weeks, especially since it's free. Are you feeling lazy and annoyed? Don't worry. A lot of us feel that way when we start doing something that will keep us alive and happy. So I asked Dr. Santos for us, why am I like this?
Ologies with Alie Ward
Eudemonology (HAPPINESS) Encore with Laurie Santos
Why do you think from some sort of evolutionary standpoint, when we're bummed out, it's harder to do the things that would make us less bummed out?
Ologies with Alie Ward
Eudemonology (HAPPINESS) Encore with Laurie Santos
You too can join that club. Costs 25 cents an episode at patreon.com. Okay, so let's get into it. Eudemonology. Will I say it right even one time this episode? Stick around to find out. So this is the science of happiness. And it's been on the ology books a long time. It comes from eudaimon, which is Greek for a benevolent demon or a good spirit.
Ologies with Alie Ward
Eudemonology (HAPPINESS) Encore with Laurie Santos
How do we hijack that? Like, how do we trick ourselves into doing the thing that we don't to do, but we like doing and is good for us.
Ologies with Alie Ward
Eudemonology (HAPPINESS) Encore with Laurie Santos
So when you pick the salad and stop pretending that Diet Coke is water and you go for the slowest, sweatiest shuffle around the block, but you do it, take a minute and absolutely relish how wonderful and brave and heroic your efforts were and how you feel. We deserve this.
Ologies with Alie Ward
Eudemonology (HAPPINESS) Encore with Laurie Santos
What about like our self-image? How much does that play into our happiness and how much does monitoring our likes and our social media and, you know, looking at pictures of our face through a distorted camera lens, how much is that affecting our happiness and how we see our lives?
Ologies with Alie Ward
Eudemonology (HAPPINESS) Encore with Laurie Santos
And it was a term used by 19th century humanistic philosopher Arthur Schopenhauer. And he called eudaimonology the art of ordering our lives so as to obtain the greatest possible amount of pleasure and success. But we're talking about the science of this art.
Ologies with Alie Ward
Eudemonology (HAPPINESS) Encore with Laurie Santos
So Nancy Kerrigan displayed a famously sour face receiving the silver in 1994. And then in 1995, a study was published in the Journal of Personal and Social Psychology titled, quote, When Less is More, Counterfactual Thinking and Satisfaction Among Olympic Medalists. Counterfactual thinking... That is the sinking, gnawing feeling of what could have been. Oh, wow. I fudged it up.
Ologies with Alie Ward
Eudemonology (HAPPINESS) Encore with Laurie Santos
So one researcher, Dr. Andrea Lewengrath, a University of Iowa marketing assistant professor, did follow-up studies on medalists to confirm that first study and recently said in an interview that you don't have to be the second best out of 8 billion.
Ologies with Alie Ward
Eudemonology (HAPPINESS) Encore with Laurie Santos
There are always going to be people who we can compare ourselves to that are better, faster, smarter, or whatever, and that can make us feel relatively bad. So what is the lesson here? Think twice before you get a no regrets tattoo and maybe consider a counter your counterfactuals tattoo instead. And once the sting wears off, celebrate your silvers. You did it.
Ologies with Alie Ward
Eudemonology (HAPPINESS) Encore with Laurie Santos
So how to shed the very comfortable, crusty shell of dissatisfaction and anxiety with some good steps that have been proven by research people to make your brain less of a miserable bummer. So press pause on your sad inner goblins and open your ears to hear about wanting versus craving, being happy in your life.
Ologies with Alie Ward
Eudemonology (HAPPINESS) Encore with Laurie Santos
And what about chemicals? Where are just the chemical hands that we were dealt? When do those have the reins on the amount of happiness we feel?
Ologies with Alie Ward
Eudemonology (HAPPINESS) Encore with Laurie Santos
Yeah. Do you ever have students who either come to you or who you hear about who aren't quite sure if it's time for medical intervention or is it time for just trying to hack their habits? How do we as individuals make that call?
Ologies with Alie Ward
Eudemonology (HAPPINESS) Encore with Laurie Santos
being happy with your life, how happiness is even measured, lottery winner statistics, the wealth of free time, the power of a walk, wheelbarrows of distractions, when does positivity become toxic, how to get around the ickiness of the word gratitude, and some practical tips to enjoy life on planet Earth before you're a pile of forgotten bones.
Ologies with Alie Ward
Eudemonology (HAPPINESS) Encore with Laurie Santos
Okay, that's great to know for people. You may know when you hit this level because your friends will say, I think you should see a doctor, dude, which is what happened to me when I was going through the hardest parts of my life and also had a couple medical conditions that turned my brain into bees. The doctor was like, well, shucks, you need more than a car wash.
Ologies with Alie Ward
Eudemonology (HAPPINESS) Encore with Laurie Santos
Let's check under the hood there, buddy. But yes, what is the technique for sloughing off persistent, crusty, muddy feelings? When it comes to things like gratitude and meditation, how much is effective? Like how much can we get away with if we're feeling real down in the dumps, but we're low on motivation? How much gratitude is enough? How much meditation is enough? How much exercise is enough?
Ologies with Alie Ward
Eudemonology (HAPPINESS) Encore with Laurie Santos
For more on this, feel free to peruse papers such as Brief Mindfulness Meditation Improves Attention in Novices and Let It Be, Mindful Acceptance Downregulates Pain and Negative Emotion, both published by Dr. Hedy Kober. So scientists in lab coats have dedicated their research and their grant money budgets to proving that yes, meditation does help. It's free.
Ologies with Alie Ward
Eudemonology (HAPPINESS) Encore with Laurie Santos
It takes less time than making a sandwich. We can do this. Let's do this.
Ologies with Alie Ward
Eudemonology (HAPPINESS) Encore with Laurie Santos
I think that's so true. Whenever I get out of the habit of running, which is now, I'll go do a lap at the reservoir, but I'll have to just tell myself the first couple times I do it, the first month even, as long as I just get around the reservoir, even crawling is fine.
Ologies with Alie Ward
Eudemonology (HAPPINESS) Encore with Laurie Santos
Expecting yourself to get back into running at a certain pace or doing things whole hog can be so intimidating, you just want to give up right away.
Ologies with Alie Ward
Eudemonology (HAPPINESS) Encore with Laurie Santos
with cognitive scientist, psychology professor, happiness lab host, Yale researcher, and eudaemonologist, Dr. Lori Santos. Hello, Dr. Santos. How are you? I'm great. Thanks. I'm sure as a happiness doctor, as a professor of happiness, you probably are inclined to say, I feel great more often than the rest of us.
Ologies with Alie Ward
Eudemonology (HAPPINESS) Encore with Laurie Santos
Yeah. Like I never want to obey a dick who's yelling at me. So why do I do that to myself?
Ologies with Alie Ward
Eudemonology (HAPPINESS) Encore with Laurie Santos
yeah i would i would want to slap my own self for saying that to me you know like i'm yeah i'm the the hardest on myself more than i would ever tolerate in somebody else which is so funny that we do that but um you know you mentioned the term positive psychology before and i'm so curious about that because i feel like i can't tell if it's flim flam or not that positive psychology is totally like a legit practice or is it
Ologies with Alie Ward
Eudemonology (HAPPINESS) Encore with Laurie Santos
something along the lines of like toxic positivity at all costs. What is positive psychology? What do scientists think of it?
Ologies with Alie Ward
Eudemonology (HAPPINESS) Encore with Laurie Santos
Are there any myths about happiness that you find yourself constantly having to bust?
Ologies with Alie Ward
Eudemonology (HAPPINESS) Encore with Laurie Santos
Is there a test where people can go figure out how happy am I?
Ologies with Alie Ward
Eudemonology (HAPPINESS) Encore with Laurie Santos
Oh, hey, it's that guy who saw you see him bump his head and then you smiled at each other like, that's okay. Allie Ward, back with an episode of Ologies. It's going to fix your whole life. Just kidding. Actually, maybe not. It very well might fix your life. I love the Life Fixer episodes. And this ologist is someone I've had in my sights for a few years.
Ologies with Alie Ward
Eudemonology (HAPPINESS) Encore with Laurie Santos
So, yes, I checked this out. And if you Google Authentic Happiness, you can help fellow eudaimonologists by taking scored questionnaires. They have Authentic Happiness Inventory, the General Happiness Scale, Positive and Negative Effect Questionnaire. the four dice emotions questionnaire, I myself opted for the classic, the authentic happiness inventory.
Ologies with Alie Ward
Eudemonology (HAPPINESS) Encore with Laurie Santos
And on a scale of one to five, Jarrett, what do you think I got? Three. You know me too well. Did I? Yeah, 3.08. So maybe I'll meditate a bunch and then I'll take it in a few months. Also, I have no idea what all those different tests do, but I'm sure that the scientists know and that's all that matters.
Ologies with Alie Ward
Eudemonology (HAPPINESS) Encore with Laurie Santos
Can I ask you some listener questions? Sure. But before that, let's aim a money cannon at a worthy cause. This week, Dr. Santos chose DonorsChoose.org, which lets teachers list their classroom needs. And then regular jabronis like you and me can make their dreams come true.
Ologies with Alie Ward
Eudemonology (HAPPINESS) Encore with Laurie Santos
So DonorsChoose has fulfilled 1.7 million classroom projects from butterfly cocoons to robotics kits to pencils and paper and books with diverse characters. Okay, so modern day Ali here saying that when this first aired, we funded a few classrooms and this time around we picked a few new ones to fund.
Ologies with Alie Ward
Eudemonology (HAPPINESS) Encore with Laurie Santos
Mrs. Alvarado's classroom at Mainz Elementary School in Calexico, California needed funding to purchase some reading comprehension passages to motivate students to read and write. She also needed new chairs for the classroom for which apparently the United States does not have enough money. So teachers have to buy these things. So happy to fund that for Mrs. Alvarado.
Ologies with Alie Ward
Eudemonology (HAPPINESS) Encore with Laurie Santos
Another classroom project funded was Mrs. Myers at Thurgood Marshall Elementary School in Morrow, Georgia, who says that research has shown that hunger has a variety of detrimental effects on kids and that some of her students come from less fortunate homes and require additional resources and support.
Ologies with Alie Ward
Eudemonology (HAPPINESS) Encore with Laurie Santos
We also tossed in a donation to Mrs. Perez Copperfield Elementary School in Converse, Texas for snacks for her students that may have financial barriers that limit their access to food. And the snacks will provide them with brain power to focus while also removing the social stigma of going without a snack during the day.
Ologies with Alie Ward
Eudemonology (HAPPINESS) Encore with Laurie Santos
So thanks for Dr. Santos for the heads up on DonorsChoose.org and to sponsors who made this round of donations possible. Okay, happy to ask your questions for Dr. Santos. OK, Ariel Reagan wants to know, do animals experience happiness? Are they happier than people?
Ologies with Alie Ward
Eudemonology (HAPPINESS) Encore with Laurie Santos
So one thing some scientists try to observe is play behavior like hopping around and running, chewing on stuff. My tiny poodle angel, she rubs her butt against stuff like a tire or my shoe. That's her version of typing hashtag blessed. Courtney Graziano wants to know, can anxious people be happy?
Ologies with Alie Ward
Eudemonology (HAPPINESS) Encore with Laurie Santos
That's great. I'm already learning so much. Can I have you say really quick your first and last name and your pronouns?
Ologies with Alie Ward
Eudemonology (HAPPINESS) Encore with Laurie Santos
Oh, that's really well said. Aiden Patko and Meg G want to know, is it flim flam that smiling actually makes you happier? Or is that a true fact? Meg says, and laughing. And a lot of other folks looking at you, patrons, say, see Demos 101, Alexis Wallach, and Ashley Herbal. Want to know, can you fake it till you make it?
Ologies with Alie Ward
Eudemonology (HAPPINESS) Encore with Laurie Santos
Is there anything you can do for a friend who is feeling really unhappy to help them out as well?
Ologies with Alie Ward
Eudemonology (HAPPINESS) Encore with Laurie Santos
So if you ever think, why would I check up on someone? I don't know how to fix things. Don't worry. Just be alive and in their orbit and listen or tell them about how lizards have two dicks. That's what I do. Patrick Giaveroni says, first time question asker wants to know happiness and the microbiome connection. What can we do to improve our microbiome? Is there a connection? What's the deal?
Ologies with Alie Ward
Eudemonology (HAPPINESS) Encore with Laurie Santos
you have been on my radar for years actually and so i'm really stoked to talk to you because this is an ology that i've wanted to do for i think since before i even started the podcast do you are you familiar with this that word What a monology? What a monology? No, maybe that word.
Ologies with Alie Ward
Eudemonology (HAPPINESS) Encore with Laurie Santos
Nice. You can just get in on poop on the ground floor.
Ologies with Alie Ward
Eudemonology (HAPPINESS) Encore with Laurie Santos
I'm in. I think that you literally can buy poop like on the black market for your own at home, like fecal transplants. P.S. Of course I looked this up. And getting an enema with someone else's poop, it's called fecal microbiota transplantation.
Ologies with Alie Ward
Eudemonology (HAPPINESS) Encore with Laurie Santos
And in the microbiology gut biome episode from November 2018, we go into detail about how our microbiomes are suffering from processed foods and artificial ingredients and overuse of antibiotics for things like viral infections that don't need antibiotics.
Ologies with Alie Ward
Eudemonology (HAPPINESS) Encore with Laurie Santos
So given that up to 90% of our serotonin is synthesized in our simmering poo-filled guts, DIY FMTs, do-it-yourself fecal microbiota transplantations, as they're called, they're getting more and more common as doctors are still reluctant to shove poo up our butts, even when we ask nicely.
Ologies with Alie Ward
Eudemonology (HAPPINESS) Encore with Laurie Santos
So according to an American Journal of Gastroenterology article called Understanding the Scope of Do-It-Yourself Fecal Microbiota Transplant, 82% of folks who tried it felt better afterwards. And 92% of those knew their stool donor who, I don't know, I guess you find by asking your friends who seems chill and has good poops.
Ologies with Alie Ward
Eudemonology (HAPPINESS) Encore with Laurie Santos
So you can ask a doctor to screen a donor sample and see if they'll do it. Otherwise, there's plenty of instructions on the internet. Apparently you buy a blender at Goodwill or something and then you maybe burn it later. None of this is my beeswax. Ask your doctors. Don't sue me or make me a smoothie later. I'm good.
Ologies with Alie Ward
Eudemonology (HAPPINESS) Encore with Laurie Santos
Rahala wants to know, first time question asker, is there any truth to the notion that people who are generally happy tend to live longer? And I want to say my dad has cancer and his oncologists were saying just positivity is really helpful for patients in general. Okay, 2024 Allie here. And my dad did pass away in the summer of 2022. And I talk about hospice tips and
Ologies with Alie Ward
Eudemonology (HAPPINESS) Encore with Laurie Santos
getting through grief in an episode from July 2022. We'll link that in the show notes for anyone who's going through something similar. But I will say that my dad outlived his prognosis by eight years, and he stayed absolutely boldly optimistic throughout all of his treatment. And we all tried to buoy his spirits in that direction. Do we find that statistically sound?
Ologies with Alie Ward
Eudemonology (HAPPINESS) Encore with Laurie Santos
Patron Annika Callen asked, why are feelings of happiness stronger when you're younger? And RL Shaul Peleg, Paige and RJ George wanted to know if happier people tend to be of a certain gender or age. RJ wants to make sure they don't become a grumpy crank who hates everyone. Yeah, I wonder, do we find that people get happier as they age or crankier as they age?
Ologies with Alie Ward
Eudemonology (HAPPINESS) Encore with Laurie Santos
So I guess this is a study of that feeling or that state. And you're the perfect person to talk to because obviously you have your podcast and you teach courses at Yale about this. So can you tell me a little bit about your background? How did you start studying cognition and feelings? Where did it start?
Ologies with Alie Ward
Eudemonology (HAPPINESS) Encore with Laurie Santos
You know, I wasn't sure about that and kids, and I hadn't thought to ask that, but I have friends who have kids. I have friends who don't have kids. I myself have a daughter. She's a dog, and she's probably the only kid I'm going to have, and she's an animal, but... I don't know. Like in general, is that the case?
Ologies with Alie Ward
Eudemonology (HAPPINESS) Encore with Laurie Santos
It's just the stress of having kids, but then the satisfaction that you did it later. So it's kind of like a like it balances.
Ologies with Alie Ward
Eudemonology (HAPPINESS) Encore with Laurie Santos
Yeah, I'm so in awe of people who do have kids just because it seems so challenging. And I know myself, I'm like so scatterbrained that I feel like I just don't necessarily feel like that would be my strong suit. But there are some people who love kiteboarding and others who are like, no, thank you. Like, I would rather be on the beach reading a book.
Ologies with Alie Ward
Eudemonology (HAPPINESS) Encore with Laurie Santos
So it really depends on what you like, you know.
Ologies with Alie Ward
Eudemonology (HAPPINESS) Encore with Laurie Santos
First time question asker Alana Rickman asks, has the rapid development in technology in the last few years had an overall increase or decrease in people's happiness? And patrons Diana, Ash Gelhaus, Jenna Mandola, Lucas O'Neill, Nicole Kleinman all echoed that. And yeah, I wonder too, in terms of being in the moment, is being on our phone, does that take us out of the moment?
Ologies with Alie Ward
Eudemonology (HAPPINESS) Encore with Laurie Santos
Is that take us into a kind of another like universe or galaxy of what's happening in this digital realm versus what's happening around us?
Ologies with Alie Ward
Eudemonology (HAPPINESS) Encore with Laurie Santos
Yeah, that's such a good way to look at it is to understand just what our brain is sort of grappling with. why it's difficult. It's not like a personal failing that we sometimes look to that. But yeah, I definitely find that when I'm looking for something to sort of boost my dopamine or happiness, I'll go to my phone and then after an hour, I'll go like, I was like, that really did the trick.
Ologies with Alie Ward
Eudemonology (HAPPINESS) Encore with Laurie Santos
If I had practiced some things I knew might be longer lasting, but at least I can't blame myself for why I was looking. Anthony had a great question asked, what if certain aspects of your happiness or the pursuit of your happiness cause others you care about to be unhappy, thereby making you unhappy?
Ologies with Alie Ward
Eudemonology (HAPPINESS) Encore with Laurie Santos
What about those circumstances where you're worried that your happiness might make other people dislike you?
Ologies with Alie Ward
Eudemonology (HAPPINESS) Encore with Laurie Santos
And if you're worried someone in your life will be upset at your happiness, just know it's your life and it's OK to feel good. If anyone has a problem with it, that is their own baggage to address. I highly suggest some of Melanie Beatty's writings about codependency. I'm just going to leave that suggestion right there for you. Ben DeWurst says, I'm just finishing up my MBA.
Ologies with Alie Ward
Eudemonology (HAPPINESS) Encore with Laurie Santos
And in one of my classes, they talked about how optimism is actually an attribute of emotional intelligence and can be learned. As an optimist myself, I'd always considered it more of a part of my personality, like extrovert or introverted and unteachable. So how would someone go about learning and training to be an optimist? And what's the relationship there?
Ologies with Alie Ward
Eudemonology (HAPPINESS) Encore with Laurie Santos
Also, is there a relationship between happiness and emotional or just like IQ introversion? intelligence. I feel like there's some badge of like, if you're unhappy, it must mean that you know more and therefore you're smarter.
Ologies with Alie Ward
Eudemonology (HAPPINESS) Encore with Laurie Santos
OK, so if the term gratitude journaling conjures up visions of sickly, sweetened chamomile tea. Just opt for the term delights, which is just like a straightforward good cup of coffee. Actually, for years, my husband, Jarrett, has cited a short tally of favorite things. His are lavender soap, coffee, and sandwiches.
Ologies with Alie Ward
Eudemonology (HAPPINESS) Encore with Laurie Santos
And he says just thinking of those three things and letting his mind wander to more helped him during a really deep depression. So... gratitude journaling delights, whatever you want to call it. Jarrett calls his his do not kill yourself list, which is kind of like the Miami Cola bang energy drink of a gratitude practice branding. Would you agree? That's my favorite bang flavor. Is it really?
Ologies with Alie Ward
Eudemonology (HAPPINESS) Encore with Laurie Santos
Miami Cola? That's on the list.
Ologies with Alie Ward
Eudemonology (HAPPINESS) Encore with Laurie Santos
So, yes, Ross Gay, The Book of Delights. And again, check out Neil Pazrucha's work and his ophthalmology episode. Another fun project, start a private Twitter just for yourself and chronicle delights of your own or a private Instagram account or something. Also, I should note that in recording this episode, the internet dropped out a few times. So I had to email Dr. Santos a new link during it.
Ologies with Alie Ward
Eudemonology (HAPPINESS) Encore with Laurie Santos
And she has an auto reply message explaining that she may not write back. And it explains that she gets more than 100 emails a day. And it reads in part, quote, Keeping up with that many questions slash requests meant that I was hurting my own time affluence and having less time for the important projects I really should be prioritizing.
Ologies with Alie Ward
Eudemonology (HAPPINESS) Encore with Laurie Santos
And so I am currently trying my own personal well-being experiment. I'm going to try to practice what I preach and reduce the amount of time I usually spend on email. Thanks for your understanding as I try not to overcommit and protect myself from burning out. Oh, I love her. Totally solid major props for walking her talk. She is the best. And in respecting her time, we wrapped it up.
Ologies with Alie Ward
Eudemonology (HAPPINESS) Encore with Laurie Santos
Last listener question. I saved it because it was juicy. Oh, it's so juicy. Bailey Ricketts wants to know, how do we find a balance between being happy and living in the moment while acknowledging all the hurt and suffering going on in the world? Essentially guilt over being happy when you know that there's a lot of bad shit out there.
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Eudemonology (HAPPINESS) Encore with Laurie Santos
That just, I'm sure, gave so many people permission to pursue happiness who feel maybe guilty about it. And by so many people, I mean me specifically, but... No, that's really helpful. Last two questions I ask before we go. Worst thing about your job? Worst thing about being a eudaemotologist and the best thing?
Ologies with Alie Ward
Eudemonology (HAPPINESS) Encore with Laurie Santos
I just got your auto reply that was like, Yo, I get like 100 emails a day. Thank you so much. But I got to stick to my principles.
Ologies with Alie Ward
Eudemonology (HAPPINESS) Encore with Laurie Santos
I've never heard those words before, but I love them. Best thing about your job. Best thing about your career.
Ologies with Alie Ward
Eudemonology (HAPPINESS) Encore with Laurie Santos
I'm I am so happy to talk to you. I have been a fangirl forever. So ask smart people happy questions or bummer questions. They are wonderful and they're great at sharing their knowledge. Obviously, get more of Dr. Lori Santos with her podcast, Happiness Lab. Her socials are linked in the show notes. She is great. If you can take her course, take it. It's also available on Coursera for free.
Ologies with Alie Ward
Eudemonology (HAPPINESS) Encore with Laurie Santos
So look for that. I will link all of those on my website too, which is at allyward.com slash ologies. We are at allyward with one L on Twitter and Instagram. We're also at ologies on Instagram and Twitter. Find us there. Be our friends. Thank you to Aaron Talbert, who moderates and admins the ologies podcast Facebook group and is excellent at that.
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Also, now we have Smologies episodes up in their own feed. Just look for Smologies wherever you get podcasts and subscribe. and spread the word, you'll find this new green logo. And Smologies are all swear-free. They're safe for all ages. It's S-M- O-L-O-G-I-E-S for your small ones. Thank you, Emily White of The Wordery. She is a professional transcriptionist who makes transcriptions available.
Ologies with Alie Ward
Eudemonology (HAPPINESS) Encore with Laurie Santos
She's great. Hire her. She's wonderful. Kayla Patton bleeps our episodes. Those are available on our website for free. The link is in the show note. We also have Smologies, which are episodes we put out once every two weeks. They are cut down versions of classic ones that have already ran. They are cleaned up and kid friendly. They're ready for the classroom.
Ologies with Alie Ward
Eudemonology (HAPPINESS) Encore with Laurie Santos
So look for Smologies too if you have Smologites. Thank you to Noelle Dilworth and Susan Hale for helping me take care of all the ologies business behind the scenes. Thank you to Stephen Ray Morris and Zeke Rodriguez Thomas, who are also working on Smologies and Wonderful. Thank you to editor Jared Sleeper. And also thank you to Grammy.
Ologies with Alie Ward
Eudemonology (HAPPINESS) Encore with Laurie Santos
We are actually recording this in the car as I'm on my way up to see my pop for his birthday. and I recorded this at five in the morning this morning before I hit the road and then I realized that my mic gain was all the way down so I had to re-record it on the side of the road, which is what we're doing.
Ologies with Alie Ward
Eudemonology (HAPPINESS) Encore with Laurie Santos
We mentioned her work in the Awesomeology episode with Neil Pazricha. And instead of just citing her, we're essentially interrogating her now to shake her for brain science.
Ologies with Alie Ward
Eudemonology (HAPPINESS) Encore with Laurie Santos
that's one secret of the episode the other secret is you know how sometimes it'll be like if you need to clean a screen just use a microfiber cloth and you're like yeah well what do I use to clean it with though like Windex what are we talking here water what do I use with the microfiber cloth so I just tried just the microfiber cloth like you're supposed to use and it cleaned the shit out of my laptop
Ologies with Alie Ward
Eudemonology (HAPPINESS) Encore with Laurie Santos
Like, my monitor's never been so clean. All he did was use one of those microfiber, too soft on your hands cloths, and apparently they're good at what they're supposed to be used for. So, go figure. Okay, bye-bye. This is the sound of my dog drinking water in the car. Okay, 2024 me, thank you for listening. Back next week with a very fresh new episode about something in your bed.
Ologies with Alie Ward
Eudemonology (HAPPINESS) Encore with Laurie Santos
Trust me, it's good. Okay, bye-bye for real.
Ologies with Alie Ward
Eudemonology (HAPPINESS) Encore with Laurie Santos
Yeah. Much different, I think, than just Instagram quotes on a page. Here you've got someone who studies the brain, who studies psychology. You're probably people go into it with a little bit of faith that you'll have some evidence based information, right?
Ologies with Alie Ward
Eudemonology (HAPPINESS) Encore with Laurie Santos
Okay, so the term positive psychology was popularized by Dr. Martin Seligman, who felt that the contemporary psychology was just too deeply focused on what's fucked up about us, not how can we live better. So it focuses on things like self-discovery and a sense of purpose and expressing yourself through creativity and authentically. So we're going to get to more of that in a bit.
Ologies with Alie Ward
Eudemonology (HAPPINESS) Encore with Laurie Santos
so she got her bachelor's in psychology and her master's and phd in cognition and brain behavior from harvard university and is now a cognitive scientist and a psychology professor at yale where she has taught the course psychology and the good life Oh, she's been a TED speaker. She was named one of Time Magazine's leading campus celebrities. And she hosts a podcast called The Happiness Lab.
Ologies with Alie Ward
Eudemonology (HAPPINESS) Encore with Laurie Santos
But first, from small hairy primates to larger, slightly less hairy primates like us. And, you know, where did you make that jump from non-human primates and dogs into humans? Did you find that a lot of the research just correlates based on what our brain structures are, how our neurons work?
Ologies with Alie Ward
Eudemonology (HAPPINESS) Encore with Laurie Santos
Okay, so I looked into some data on if Powerball winners are happier and it's a mixed bag of money. So one thing for sure, people do take more vacations when they win the lottery. And by contrast, 60% of Americans take zero vacations a year. And apparently one thing that pleases us so much about vacations is just having something, anything to look forward to.
Ologies with Alie Ward
Eudemonology (HAPPINESS) Encore with Laurie Santos
So just start peppering your calendar with any excursion you can. Even if it's just like a nice bowl of soup next Wednesday or a hike next weekend. Pack a picnic. Leisure time on any scale is apparently worth a million bucks and tax-free. So, hey. Is happiness more about being happy with ourselves and accepting ourselves or external circumstances?
Ologies with Alie Ward
Eudemonology (HAPPINESS) Encore with Laurie Santos
Or is it mission-based, like you're on the right path to doing something that you believe in?
Ologies with Alie Ward
Eudemonology (HAPPINESS) Encore with Laurie Santos
So is it mind over matter? This is where you ask smart persons doofy questions.
Ologies with Alie Ward
Eudemonology (HAPPINESS) Encore with Laurie Santos
What is happiness? How do you even define it?
Ologies with Alie Ward
Eudemonology (HAPPINESS) Encore with Laurie Santos
So it's been a wonky few years. We all know. And as one person who wrote a review this week of Ologies said, it always brings a smile to my face when I hear people talk about their passions. I'm grateful every day for Ologies and giving me my life back. AJ Buxton, who left that review, I'm very glad you're here. Thank you for leaving that fresh one.
Ologies with Alie Ward
Eudemonology (HAPPINESS) Encore with Laurie Santos
So I'm going to pause us for a second just to ponder. How do you feel in your life? How are your days to days? Maybe some nice tea in the morning, some supportive co-workers, maybe some evening knitting or a walk with a friend. Or do you hate your coffee maker and you don't know why you started re-watching The Big Bang Theory from episode one? You're tired. Go to bed.
Ologies with Alie Ward
Eudemonology (HAPPINESS) Encore with Laurie Santos
Now, what about with your life? Do you feel a sense of purpose? Are you proud of your life? Do you feel authentic? Just think about it for a second. It's totally okay if you're like, Some of it's good. Some of it sucks eggs. Or I'm very fortunate. Why am I such a grumpy walrus? And there are lots of different hacks that we can do to improve both of those constructs.
Ologies with Alie Ward
Eudemonology (HAPPINESS) Encore with Laurie Santos
In terms of emotions themselves, is happiness an umbrella for things like joy and relief and satisfaction and contentment? Or are those all individual separate emotions?
Ologies with Alie Ward
Eudemonology (HAPPINESS) Encore with Laurie Santos
And what about you in particular? I know that you said you can read the studies and understand and know, but sometimes it's hard to do. You know, how has your life changed since you switched a little bit of your career focus on this?
Ologies with Alie Ward
Eudemonology (HAPPINESS) Encore with Laurie Santos
And a 2024 reviewer, V Farm, who wrote that, without fail, my favorite episodes are those on topics I had no interest in. Y'all, vampires, trees, gar, brilliantly unenthusiastic sounding crab experts. There's nothing quite so wonderful. Thank you, V Farm, for getting it. And thanks to everyone who leaves me reviews. They keep the show up in the charts.