Wiser Than Me with Julia Louis-Dreyfus
Listen Again: Julia Gets Wise with Ina Garten
Wed, 27 Nov 2024
On this encore episode of Wiser Than Me, Julia gets enlightened by 76-year-old cook and author Ina Garten. From working on nuclear policy at the White House and operating her famous specialty food store Barefoot Contessa, to penning best-selling books and hosting hit TV shows – Ina has done it all. Her culinary influence goes beyond technique; it's about simplicity and connection. Ina shares how aging has changed her taste in food and how she deals with passive-aggressive people. Follow Wiser Than Me on Instagram and TikTok @wiserthanme and on Facebook at facebook.com/wiserthanmepodcast. Keep up with Ina Garten @inagarten on Instagram. Find out more about other shows on our network at @lemonadamedia on all social platforms. Joining Lemonada Premium is a great way to support our show and get bonus content. Subscribe today at bit.ly/lemonadapremium. For exclusive discount codes and more information about our sponsors, visit https://lemonadamedia.com/sponsors/. For additional resources, information, and a transcript of the episode, visit lemonadamedia.com. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Chapter 1: What inspired Julia to cook for her kids?
And so, you know, when our kids were little, providing for them, obviously, this is some instinctual maternal thing. You just get this incredible joy out of your kids finishing a meal that you made for them, right? The most basic kind of nurturing. And I'm also very captive to ritual, as I think we all are to a certain extent.
So I put great store into birthdays and making sure that both of our kids always had memorable birthdays. And so when our first son, Henry, was little, you know, just a little toddler, I was so looking forward to baking him a birthday cake. And so I asked him what kind of cake he wanted. And I mean, honestly, he was little. He was barely even talking. What does he know about cakes?
But he was a fanciful kid. So when I said, what kind of cake do you want, hen? And he said, orange. And this was clearly the color orange. I don't think that he had any idea that a cake could even have an orange flavor. This was just about the look of it. You know, think about it. Just a giant orange cake. So... I set about looking for an orange cake that I could make for him. And I did.
I found a Bundt cake made with real oranges that I then jerry-rigged into a three-layer cake. And then I concocted this cream cheese frosting to go with it. And I shouldn't say this because, you know, it's not very, you know, farm-to-table cake. But I dyed the frosting orange, not a bright orange, more sort of a peachy salmon color so that it was aesthetically pleasing, you know.
And I covered it in mandarin oranges on top. It was gorgeous. And it was a huge hit with Henry. And I've been making that cake on his birthday ever since. And then my younger son, Charlie, he requested a key lime pie. So I made him this key lime pie. I ordered the key lime juice from just one place. These guys called the Manhattan Key Lime Juice Company.
And you can look it up because that's all they sell for real, key lime juice, nothing else, which is just so fabulously old school. I just love it. So I've been making that key lime pie for my Charlie for almost 25 years and the orange cake for Henry going on 30 years. Now I use fresh oranges from our own tree, so it's even better. For me, this is just the quintessence of a gesture of love.
It's such... A simple thing, you know, measuring, mixing, baking, but it does take focus and concentration and exactness. And even then it doesn't always go the way you want. You know, there's some luck and karma mixed into it too, but boy, it's just, it's so meaningful to me to make something sweet and poignantly delicious for the people that I love.
And I plan on doing this for the rest of my life, this little thing, or it's actually kind of a big thing because it gives me such joy and pride. It's become a sacrament really now to me. So I guess cooking can take on a significance way beyond just being delicious and nutritious. And that's why I am so delighted today to get to talk to Ina Garten.
Hi, I'm Julia Louis-Dreyfus, and this is Wiser Than Me, the podcast where I get schooled by women who are wiser than me. Anybody hungry? you're gonna be, because our guest today has been dishing out fabulous recipes and a shit ton of charm for decades. She is the Barefoot Contessa, the queen of comfort cooking. Her signature bob and blue shirt are as iconic as her roasted chicken.
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Chapter 2: How has Ina's age influenced her cooking style?
And what is your real age? My real age is 76. And how old do you feel, Ina? You know, I kind of like being 76. I get to do whatever I want to do. Yeah. Yeah. No BS. No. I mean, I wouldn't mind a 25-year-old body, but the rest of it, I'll take the 76.
I hear that. I love that. You're completely embracing it. I I feel the same way about getting older. I mean, there are aspects of being younger, physical aspects that would be nice, but there is something very freeing about getting older, right?
Well, I feel like when we're younger, we wonder what will become of us. And when we're older, we know what's going to become of us. And it's turned out really great.
Yeah, I completely hear that. And it's it's nice to feel it's like boots that you've been wearing a long time. They're super comfortable and you're you feel confident in them.
I think when you're younger, you feel like you have to do everything just because, you know, you're just you're just building things and you have to do everything that's that comes your way. And then when you get older, you start choosing and you choose because it's fun, not for any other reason. Right. Right.
Well, that's right. And I remember in doing research to talk with you and you were saying that, Jeffrey, when you were making the decision to leave government, the White House, and you weren't sure what to do. And he said, well, just find something that's fun for you.
Because he said it for me particularly because if it's fun, I want to do it. If it's not fun, you can't get me to do it with the cattle prod.
I had a physics teacher when I was in high school, Mr. Coyne, Marty Coyne, and he was a wonderful teacher. He would write at the bottom of every paper that you would turn in, he would say, have fun at all costs.
Isn't that great?
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Chapter 3: What does Ina believe is the essence of comfort food?
And I don't like to have for dinner what I tested during the day unless it's totally done and it's so good I want Jeffrey to have it. Right. That's work and this is dinner. Got it. And I don't want to eat something and go, I wish it had more rosemary in it. It's just not fun.
Yeah, not fun. There we go with the fun again. I want to show you a picture for our listeners. I'm showing a picture of what I made for me and my husband this morning for breakfast. Let me see if you can see it. Oh, wait, shit. Oh, God, I don't know how to get that thing away. Oh, God. I'm trying to work my iPhone. Okay, wait. Can you see that? That looks great. Poached eggs on toast?
Oh, smashed eggs on toast. It's the smashed eggs with the grainy mustard. Isn't that great? Yeah. Oh, how fabulous.
Was that to get you in the mood for today?
Yeah, and also I was just looking. I was reviewing a bunch of your cookbooks, which, of course, I own, and I was just sort of wanted to get. Oh, yeah. Are you kidding me? I mean, I could not live without them. Oh, Julia. I could not live without them. Thank you. How has your relationship changed to food as you've gotten older?
You know, I mean, are there tastes that you have now that you didn't then or things, I mean, back in the day or things you didn't like when you were younger that you love now?
I think my style hasn't changed at all. I think it might be my sophistication about things has changed. And I've... learned about a few things. So I didn't know what truffle butter was. I didn't know what sriracha was. There are a few things in the 25 years I've been writing cookbooks that I've kind of acquired as part of the repertoire of things that I can use.
But I think I still like roast chicken and roast carrots. I know, you can't beat it, man. One thing I learned when I had a specialty food store is that People eat differently at home than they do in a restaurant. They like really simple food. Right. And that's true about me too, actually. I like simple food in a restaurant too, but people don't want fancy veal with morels at home.
Yeah.
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Chapter 4: How does gardening relate to patience in life?
I have one of those too, but it's not from before I was married, but I've had it for probably 25 years and I just, I love it. This is 55 years and it's still good.
I thought you were referring to your marriage. You said this is 55 years, it's still good.
Even better than a spatula. Yeah, exactly. So moving out of the kitchen for a moment, you're a gardener. You have a beautiful garden at your house in the Hamptons. Thank you. I'm in Santa Barbara, California, and I planted garlic, which I've never planted before.
I haven't either. And the garlic scapes that grow on the top, you can grill them. They're really great. Oh, no way. Really? Yeah.
Yeah. And I did not know you break apart your clove of garlic and you take each individual clove and you plant it.
Plant it, yeah.
And it's already poked through the earth. And I just planted it like nine days ago, which is kind of amazing, you know?
Isn't that great? Yeah. Yeah. Does gardening teach you patience? I don't tend to be patient, but I like seeing something evolve in a garden.
Yes, it teaches me, certainly does teach me patience, but also it's a thrill because you don't know. There's so much, you know, if you go away for a week and then you come back to look at your garden, things will have changed. And so it always feels like a miracle to me. Yeah.
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Chapter 5: What are the challenges of hosting dinner parties?
Visit Aflac.com to learn more. So you worked at the White House.
Yeah.
And you worked on nuclear policy, correct?
Right.
Yeah. And what struck me, first of all, that's extraordinary that this is your story in and of itself. But I was thinking about science and the overlap of science and cooking.
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Chapter 6: What is Ina's approach to recipe development?
Yeah, I'm totally aware of it. Right? It's not an accident, exactly. It's not an accident. I think that if you enjoy science, cooking is really another kind of science.
Yeah.
And I always think that if you work in science, you end up with nuclear energy or you end up with gibberellic acid or whatever, you know, whatever it is. In cooking, you end up with a chocolate cake. Yeah.
So I'll take the chocolate cake any day. Yeah, 100%.
Yeah. So I think they are very related. And the way I test a recipe is absolutely scientific. I'll make a recipe once and I'll analyze what the result is. And then I'll change one or two things about it and then make it again and then change one or two things about it and make it again. And it's a very scientific process for me.
And you're taking notes along the way, obviously. Yeah.
Right? Yeah, I take notes along the way. And I start out, I think, the way you often do in science with hypothesis of what I want it to be. If I'm doing a chocolate cake, I want to know what texture I'm looking for, what flavor I'm looking for, what range of flavor, you know, like what things I want to have bubble up. And if I don't know where I'm going, I'll never finish.
So I have to have something in my head. where I'm going. And I keep testing it until I kind of hear that ping that says, that's what I'm looking for.
Do recipes come to you in your... I mean, do you conjure them in your head? Are you improvising a recipe and then you write it down and you try it? How does that work, Ina?
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Chapter 7: How do personal experiences shape culinary preferences?
Yeah. Get out of here. Go enjoy your cocktail. I'll be there in a minute.
Anyway, it's fine. You know what? At the end of the day, the only thing that's really important is you have time with your friends. Completely. I keep trying to remind myself, don't get obsessed about whether something's absolutely exactly the way you want it to be, as long as everybody's having a good time. And if they feel like we're anxious about it, It's going to it'll bomb.
It's going to ruin the evening.
Yeah, it's going to ruin the evening. So we got to get our shit together. That's what you're saying.
So on top of being anxious about the meal, we have to look like we're not anxious, which makes you more anxious. Right. Of course.
But that'll be our little secret. That's our secret. You never heard it from me. Never heard it.
Don't go anywhere. More wisdom from Ina Garten after this quick break. This show is sponsored by Midi Health. Staying in touch with your body becomes more important than ever as you get older, especially for women. After 40, hormones shift, energy changes, and what your body needs has evolved over time.
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