In episode 33 of Wake Up to Wealth, Brandon Brittingham interviews Wes Nichols, the Managing Director at Paramount Property Tax Appeal, as he shares his unique approach to navigating the property tax system, arguing for value reductions, and helping property owners maximize their savings.Tune in to learn more about strategies for effective property tax consultation and reduction.Brandon BrittinghamInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/mailboxmoneyb/Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/brandon.brittingham.1/ Wes NicholsFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/wes.nichols.54LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/wesnichols/WEBSITESBrandon Brittingham: https://www.brandonsbrain.org/homeParamount Property Tax Appeal: https://www.paramountpropertytaxappeal.com/
Chapter 1: What strategies can help save on property taxes?
Hey, what's up, everybody? We are back with another episode of Wake Up to Wealth. And today, something really exciting we're going to talk about, another way to save you money, specifically on property taxes. I got my good buddy here, Wes Nichols, who happens to be in the boardroom mastermind with me and have had the pleasure to be in the room with this guy a few times.
Definitely knows his shit cold and excited to have him with us today. Thanks for being on today, brother.
Thanks, Brian.
So tell us a little bit about who you are, what your company does, because, you know, until I met you, I really didn't know anybody that did what you do. And I didn't even know that this kind of industry existed. So fill us in.
Yeah. Best way to describe what we do is we're half brand attorneys and half brand appraisers. But the great thing is, is I'm not an attorney and I'm not an appraiser.
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Chapter 2: How does Wes Nichols navigate the property tax system?
We're just really good at arguing value for property tax reduction and in consulting taxpayers, property owners on how to navigate the property tax system, how to reduce potential future impacts, as well as reduce current impacts of property taxes. I've got a staff of over 30. We represent over $40 billion in assessed values.
We have offices in California, Seattle, Colorado, Texas, New Mexico, and we're constantly expanding and growing.
So essentially, I own a big apartment complex, office center. I'm going to build something, whatever the case is. I come to you and try to essentially get my assessment argued. Is that kind of what you do?
Correct. So right now, we're doing a lot in, say, San Francisco, downtown or L.A., San Diego. Our two asset types that we're seeing the most reductions on are definitely office apartments because cap rates have changed from three and a half, four to now they're four and a half, five and a half caps. We're also seeing some reductions in hotels.
Most of the reductions right now are based on the debt market and the higher cap rates and the post-COVID environment right now.
So, you know, why would a municipality or a government agency or whatever, you know, essentially agree with you to say, hey, we'll make this reduction? And what do you think makes you guys good at doing this? Like, why does it work?
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Chapter 3: What types of properties see the most tax reductions?
It's all based on the data. That's one. And then two is motivating the assessor to do the right thing. So there are some states or municipalities out there where they won't agree to large reductions. And they basically say, hey, this is going to impact the local government.
And I say, hey, if these taxes aren't lowered, this is going to impact local government because this is going to drive businesses. This is going to drive investors out of your county and out of your city. So we try to have a win-win solution. That's in certain markets. Certain markets, it's all based on data. Like state of California, certain counties, they're flush with money due to Prop 13.
But there's only really 5%, 10% of the property taxes, maybe 15%. that we can actually get reductions on in California. And some of those, like for office buildings, would be very sizable. We're seeing values for office properties go back to 1999 or early 2000 values. So you're seeing upwards of 60% reductions or more on some of these office properties. It's pretty substantial.
Give me an example, one you can think of. What's a recent client that you've worked with where you gave them a substantial... What did that translate into actual dollars? How much money did you actually save them?
Our biggest client that we've ever got a large refund was over $3 million, and that was a hospital. They were being assessed for $113 million, and we got them down $44 million. That was a couple of years back, but we've got cases where... I've got an office park up in the Bay Area where it says for $280 million and our penny value is $180 million.
That's $100 million right there that would basically generate over $1.2 million in refunds. We've got some quotes out there right now. There are large reductions right now where the refunds could be millions of dollars back to clients. That's on the big stuff, but We typically, we don't just say no to everyone.
We have a lot of properties that are in that $3 to $5 million range where we might be able to get them 15, 20%. We might get them back 15, 20 grand. That 15, $20,000 to any investor, that's still... Um, so we try to have a wide range approach where yes, we do the big stuff, but at the same time, you know, my roots are is I want to help the small, small person and help them out.
Or maybe a mom and pop where they did a transfer or a change in ownership and it messed up their reassessment. They got bad legal advice where I could go in and fix that for them. So I look at it and go, I'm here to help everyone. And if I have that context and have that attitude, you know, everything will fall in line.
Yeah. So so for someone who's listening to this and doesn't understand, like, so do you go actually into the municipality, present them the data, argue with them? Does this go to court? Like, how does how does this process work?
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Chapter 4: How does the property tax appeal process work?
I am one of the luckiest men in the world. I have an amazing wife, amazing kids. Another thing that makes me lucky is I'm very passionate and love what I do. And if the assessor's office offers me a good offer option, I will take and sell a case with them. But if they make me go to court with them, I will do whatever it takes to win. And what that means is I will ask the tough questions.
I will be over-prepared. whatever it takes. Cause yes, I love to win, but more importantly, I hate to lose. And I, when I lose a case and it sometimes happened, but rarely my wife's like, why are you so upset? Did you lose a case? And I'll be upset for like a couple of days. And it's not because of what I did is it's because of the board or the decision that was done because I know I'm right.
Or at least I think I'm right. Maybe I'm too right. But at the end of the day, I think where that comes down to is one of my clients was talking to me on the phone this week and she goes, you know, what you do is very righteous, is very you're helping a lot of people out. And I and I and I always thought like, hey, I'm helping the wealthy get wealthier or whatnot.
But we do help a lot of, I would say, small business owners or small homeowners. And it really hit me. I was like, yeah, I guess I am making a difference in people's lives is when I can get them back that refund. I can get them back that money and lower their property taxes and that helps them dramatically.
I know in the past that I have saved properties where that refund helped them make the mortgage or got them out of foreclosure. Yeah. So that's what keeps me passionate about that is I know what we do matters. I know what I do matters. And so I need to make sure that what I'm doing, I have my a game. And, and part of that is just having the right attitude and passion for what I do.
So I always think it's interesting. Right. How did you get, how'd you get started in this? Because it's, you know, it's, it's not necessarily an industry where you just, everybody wakes up and says, I want to go argue taxes. So like what, what brought you into this?
I have a crazy story. So it was 2008. I was my background was in commercial. So basically, I was a loan loan originator. And that's where I learned how to evaluate commercial real estate, learn how to appraise properties. And I was right around the Lehman collapse and I knew it was going to be bad. And I said to a coworker of mine, I said, hey, I feel sorry for the teachers and sheriffs.
They're going to get laid off because the property tax revenue is going to be way down. He goes, I was a banker in St. Louis and I knew this firm. they lowered property taxes and they had a lot of money in their bank account. I'm like, that's a thing. So I get on my internet, I Google.
And at the time there were a few large nationwide firms out there and the websites came up and you saw some of the success stories. I'm like, okay, well, most contingency attorneys charge 33%. I was like, Holy crap, there's money in this. And I'm looking at this going, I can do this. You know, I can sell and pick up clients and whatnot. And, you know, part of it was a good thing.
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Chapter 5: What states have the highest property tax challenges?
2021, we filed $21 billion. Last year, $30 billion. This year, $40 billion. So now it's like, wow, see what's possible here. If you have the right vision, you have the right team, it's unlimited what you can accomplish.
So when you hear, you know, what's remarkable is one of the things I love about the show is I get to I get I get to talk to people like you that that have these great rises, you know, in their companies. You know, there's probably a lot of things that you could share. But what do you think? One of the biggest lessons you've learned of going from filing three billion, you know, to 40 billion.
I mean, that's. There's a stark difference, right? And that's what we all hope for as an entrepreneur to see that rise. What do you think is one of the best lessons you could share with our audience?
I think having a team and a process is that. The other is having a vision and just sticking to that vision. Like this is our every year that we've set out, we set a goal. And every year I've hit that goal. And it's amazing what goal setting can do of I'm going to do X. And this is what we're going to do. And just say, come hell or high water.
And so it's just having that grit and that context of no matter what, this is happening.
So Wes, by the way, is a sponsor of the show. And he's he's he's frankly the only guy in the industry that he's in that I know and trust. So people that are out there listening to this, you know, who who should reach out to you for help when it comes to their property taxes?
I think anyone should if you hire us or hire someone else, the key fact is, is majority of people don't file an appeal. And the main reasons why people don't file an appeal is they're afraid of retribution from the government, which that's not the case. The other is, is they get too busy and get distracted.
The other reason is, is they think they're too busy and it's gonna take a lot of their time. If that's the case, go hire an expert. At least worst case scenario, have someone review it. And most people in the industry charge a contingency fee. So you don't pay them unless they win. Okay, so there's, in our case here, You don't owe us anything until we win.
And then from there, they would owe a fee after the fact. So with that being said, it doesn't hurt. You just have to be like anything in life or anything in business. You have to be aware. You have to know your numbers. You have to know what's going on. And so the key is, is when you get a notice or you get a tax bill, make sure someone's reviewing it. Make sure an expert's reviewing it.
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Chapter 6: How can investors forecast property tax increases?
Yeah, and I mean, I will tell you that just in my personal experience, not necessarily even using a firm, you know, we filed appeal on our taxes before just on single family residences, on different things that we've done. Not all of them were successful, but we were successful many, many times. And I mean, that over scale, that shit added up and it made a difference to our bottom line for sure.
Yeah.
And most states, you file the appeal, you win, and then that reduces the future tax bill. State of California is different. You file the appeal, you pay the taxes, and then you get a refund. But each state's a little different. But the key is being aware, having a tax professional look at it.
Got it. So you guys, we will drop all of Wes's information on this episode to get in touch with his company here and on other episodes. So if you need help in the things that he's talking about on tax assessments, we'll give you all the ways to get in touch with him. Kind of wrapping up here, we always ask everybody the same question. We call the show Waking Up to Wealth.
I bring people on the show like you to talk about money and different avenues and niches of money that people aren't aware of. Right. So case in point, I didn't know there was people out there like you that existed until I met you in boardroom. But waking up to wealth is different for everybody. I'd love to know your definition of what waking up to wealth means to you.
waking up the wealth is, uh, from that movie quote, you're in a position to fuck you. You know, you've got your house, you've got a home warranty, it's fully paid off and you got cash in the bank. I mean, I think getting to a place to where you can choose to say yes or no to the work rather than the work saying you having to be forced to say yes or no to the work. Um,
When you wake up on a Monday, you get to choose what you want to do. That's wealth to me, is having personal freedom and choice. You can travel whenever you want. You can go whenever you want. That to me is wealth.
Hey, that's a good enough answer to me. I like that one, especially the first sentence. So I just want to say again, thank you. Thank you for being a sponsor to the show. You guys know, you know, we vet everybody. We don't let somebody come on and be a sponsor of a show if we don't absolutely trust them and believe in their product. This guy can save you some money.
I can tell you I've been in rooms with him. If you want anyone that's going to argue for your behalf to put money in your pocket, he's the guy. Hey, thank you so much for taking the time to be on the show with us today, brother. I appreciate you.
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