Ukraine just pulled off one of the most devasting attacks in the history of modern warfare. Our own Denver Riggleman just happens to be on the front line. Learn what Ukraine thinks of America since Trump’s embarrassing meeting with Zelinsky, what is the future of drone warfare, what is the Babushka intelligence network and so much more! *This episode was recorded on June 2nd,2025, and aired on June 4th, 2025 About Truth in the Barrel: Amy and Denver are both military veterans, political junkies, and whiskey lovers who sit on opposite sides of the aisle but have one thing in common: they love the United States of America. Truth in the Barrel was born of Amy & Denver’s commitment to country, the Constitution, and a well-curated collection of the world’s finest bourbon. Join them weekly for deep dives into timely topics, interviews with recognizable guests, and a dose of call-in fun. Visit Our Website: www.TruthintheBarrel.com Subscribe to Truth in the Barrel: https://www.youtube.com/@TruthIntheBarrel Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0JQcSj5mwVyGDJ8DcXwlu9?si=5f2bd1d1b0c64e6f Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/truth-in-the-barrel/id1804092329 Instagram, BlueSky, Facebook, TikTok: @TruthintheBarrel
Chapter 1: What recent event did Ukraine achieve in drone warfare?
Today, we've got a devil's cut episode from Ukraine, where the Ukrainians have just pulled off a remarkable drone attack deep inside Russian territory. I'm Amy McGrath with my co-host, Denver Riggleman. This is Truth in the Barrel, a different kind of whiskey rebellion. Welcome to Truth in the Barrel. I'm Amy McGrath.
This is the Devil's Cut Edition, along with Denver Riggleman, who is broadcasting from somewhere in Ukraine right now. Denver, please tell us where you're at and how are you?
I'm in Odessa. So if everybody wants to look on the map on Odessa today, Amy, I have had an incredible day. I've been in the Karason Oblast in Karason. I've been, I don't know if I've ever had a day like I've had today. I'm so tired and so, so sleep deprived. The town I've been to, oh, Mikolaiv. I went from Mikolaiv to Kherson, talked to so many people today in the resistance, the partisans.
Had a day where I had to learn, even though I know how to drive stick very well, and I've driven on the left side of the road in Scotland, Ireland, England, I had to drive a left-hand stick in a high threat FPV drone area, and the car kept breaking down. So we actually had to push start a 2007 CRV with 200,000 miles in a drone zone. So it's been...
A week of the ages, but today has been incredible. As you can see, I look like I was dragged out of a sauna after running four miles while somebody was hitting me with a whip.
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Chapter 2: What is the significance of the attack on Russian territory?
You're looking great, though. And we're so glad that you're okay. I mean, gosh. So a lot of news right in the last 48 hours. Ukraine has just pulled off this incredible attack deep into Russian territory, destroying what has been reported to be over 40 strategic bombers, a very large aircraft that are important to Russia, by using drones in this attack.
So what are you hearing from folks over there?
You know, it's been incredible, actually, the morale boost that this has given. And, you know, what's so ironic, Amy, is that I have been with a drone company, right, with 50 cows and machine guns to shoot down drones that try to skirt along the river in Kyiv. I have been with the most advanced drone warfare professionals here in Ukraine over the last few days.
And I've seen and listened to the evolution of drone warfare. And I want to tell people what happened, what you saw in Russia is so unprecedented, but it shouldn't be much of a surprise based on the Ukrainian methodologies in drone warfare, which I think right now they're the best in the world. And the U.S. should be side by side with them. But I'll tell you what happened in Russia destroying.
And Amy, you can check me. I'm so sorry. I've literally been in the woods. and in the craziest places for four days. You can check me on this, but I think 34% of the strategic bomber fleet was destroyed. Amy's like, dear God, was he reading as he was coming here? Yes, I was. And then I also saw that billions of dollars were destroyed. The videos are all over Ukraine, and it really happened.
And I think that's what people need to know, that this happened. I know how it happened. I know the TTPs, and it's just incredible, Amy. Okay.
So there's a couple of things you threw out there that I want you to define for everybody. So what's a TTP?
Tactics, techniques, and procedure, or the methodology or process of how they actually execute a drone engagement.
Yeah, because we're seeing reports, Denver, of these semi-trucks that have sort of opened up, and then the drones come out of there and attack. That's just incredible. It's like James Bond type of stuff, right?
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Chapter 3: What are the tactics, techniques, and procedures (TTPs) used in drone warfare?
So tell me a little bit more. What does that mean?
Yeah, so FPV drones are really the killer drones that really most of the people worry about in these areas where Russia controls that sector. Obviously, Ukraine is also very good with FPV drones, but really they're killer drones. You can call them that based on the payloads. Some even have different payloads.
And again, Amy, me and you probably have to talk offline before our next show because I have to ask some of these people what I can talk about and what I can't. Because me and you need to talk thermal drones. We need to talk surveillance drones, right? We need to talk bomb drones. We have so much to talk about. But the FPV drones are what scares people. I'll give you an example.
Today I was in Kersan. Kersan is one of the hottest non-occupied places in the country for drones. They call it human safari. They actually use these first-person view drones, these FPV drones, to indiscriminately kill civilians or go after vehicles that are in these areas. That's what I was in today and yesterday. So if people look at Kherson, there's a river that goes through it.
The closer you get to the river, you're more to what they call the left bank. The left bank still has a bunch of Russian occupied on that other side, or it's very, very hot. The right bank is a part of Kherson that's been liberated. I think it was November 11th of 2022. So what happens is, is that about 70% of the population have left Kherson.
But today at 4 p.m., I sent a picture to Doug, our producer, and he said, And that picture was me in Kersan Square at around 4 p.m., which is the time they say to get the hell out of there. I have a video of me getting out of there as fast as I can. And that blue CRV I told you about, Amy, that kept breaking down. But about an hour after I left, there was a drone strike right where I was.
And I think that's why when I told you it's one of the most emotional days I've ever had when it comes to being a noncombatant and with the people I talked to today and for
um our handler i call him magic because he gets us through every checkpoint for magic in the front seat to look at video three hours after we left and go yeah that heavy ukrainian accent uh yeah about an hour after we were there there was a strike and as you know amy and i think doug might have told you yesterday there was a strike about two kilometers from my position in kerosene
So it's been quite a hairy couple of days, ma'am, quite a hairy couple of days.
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Chapter 4: How are FPV drones utilized in the current conflict?
Sorry, Amy, and a lot of it's exhaustion. I apologize.
I know, I know. hey i'm the one back here in in lovely kentucky um drinking by the way devil's cut okay the devil's cut and i'll tell you very quickly before we get into this um the reason i chose this jim beam devil's cut is because the jim beam brand and the brands that are associated with it like jack daniels they were one of the first to um
as a corporation, to say they were not going to ship anymore or sell anymore to Russia after Russia invaded Ukraine. Now, I know there's a lot on the black market, and I'm sure if you're in Russia, you can still get Jim Beam. But kudos to the company for brown forming, I think, for saying, hey, you know. So that's my cheers.
But I want to ask you, why did you decide to go to Ukraine in the first place? Like, why are you there?
September of last year, Amy, I did a humanitarian mission into Ukraine with medical equipment, ambulances, multiple types of vehicles for frontline medical evacuations. And I've been wanting to do it a long time because, as you know, Amy, sometimes in order to get the stink of the place, you've got to have your feet on the ground. You've got to know what's actually happening and have context.
And I went about as far as Kyiv, and I went a little bit east of Kyiv. So I really wasn't in too much danger. You know, I definitely got to see some things other people didn't.
But once I started looking at their advances in drones, especially their homegrown organic drones that was outside the Chinese assembly line, and I'll be honest with you, Amy, still probably 70% to 80% of the Ukrainian components are Chinese based on cost. But Ukraine can make their own drones. But when I came back after September, I'd fallen in love with Ukraine.
And people started asking me for help and looking at the TTPs, the tactics, techniques, and procedures, or how they were advancing in drone warfare, I really thought that the Ukrainians could teach the Americans something. So here I am doing the same type of humanitarian mission here in May. However, I signed up to do a few other things.
And I am also writing a book and doing a movie on girls that helped Girls that really help the resistance out here. And so... In order to know what they're doing, I had to go see them. And they're still living in Kersan. They're still living in Kersan and still there with their dad. And, you know, and also I got to see other individuals in the resistance, young teenagers.
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Chapter 5: What role do women play in the Ukrainian resistance?
I don't know if you know this, there's no lights in Kersan. They took them all down because you never want to stop once you hit the town. So if you think about the flow of traffic, it's pretty insane. Even if there's only seven or eight cars, they're whipping around, especially as it gets closer to 4 p.m., which seems to be the witching hour in Kersan.
So we park under the trees next to a theater. There's nobody, it's quiet. There's two people walking one person down the street, maybe two cars parked in a three block area. Think about the desertion of a town and an old blast that had 300,000 people and has lost 70% of their population.
So we go around the corner and Amy, there's a whole group of people under concealment, netting, camo, drinking coffee, Smoking cigs, right? And I go down to theater and do just an incredible interview on this beautiful lady who the occupation came in just days after she had her child and what she had to do to survive. And there's still life there. The human cost is extraordinary.
And I think it's radicalized me to the ordinary. It's radicalized me to facts and faith and the ability to look at things where they really are. And really the only way to do that for me was to look them in the eye on the ground and say, if I'm going to write about you, if I'm going to support you, I gotta be with you. And that's my responsibility. And yeah,
I did not know how far I was going, Amy, in some of these places. I was a little surprised myself. I got a little sideways. When you get lost, don't go east.
Yeah, I mean, people who are listening should really pull up a map and see. And we'll send one in the show link from the Institute of the Study of War as to where things stand as of June 1st in Ukraine. And you can see where Denver is and you can see where the front lines are. And just, you know, we talk about this being a drone war at times.
the moment and that small drones are the most important weapon going on. And I'm going to have you assess that whether you agree or disagree. But one of the things that I've tried to when I teach
down at University of Kentucky and I teach defense policy and we talk about what's going on in the war, that I try to explain to my students from the reporting there, at least, and I want to get your take, is with this new technology and with drones being the way they are, there is no place to hide Okay.
The ISR drones, which are their surveillance drones, the intelligence drones, they may not be armed folks, but they can see everything. And the armed drones, they're the ones that you have to really worry about, which you're talking about, the FPV ones, they're everywhere. And so gone are the days where you can just sort of hide. Now you're talking about nettings and things like that.
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Chapter 6: How does the Babushka intelligence network operate?
So these thermal drones are so effective that they're having to do a whole new type of, I hate to say TTP again, but that's what they're doing for concealment. And he goes, it's so difficult for movement on both sides because the thermals are so good on these drones. So we are looking at drone warfare. being not only executed but perfected by two sides.
And you talk about that big hit into Russia. It was like, oh, yeah, my God, 34%. But the Russians are learning very quickly from the Ukrainians. I would say for every two Russian drones, you get one Ukrainian drone, right? Ukraine is that good. But Russia is catching up. And their ability to scale swarms is, I think, what we really need to watch out for.
And by the way, you know, here's what I really think. If we're not here learning, my good friend from the Foreign Legion said he was watching a U.S. Army training video, a very recent one. He goes, you're dead, you're dead, your whole fricking unit, you're dead, you're dead, you're dead because of thermal drone and ISR drone movement. And that's the thing we need to be looking at, Amy.
We gotta be looking forward. And right now the U.S. isn't because Russia is catching up to Ukraine. And guess what everybody's using? Chinese drones. They're the ones who are really ahead of the game.
Well, so I know, look, when I was in Afghanistan, it was a long time ago. But I know that during the day, the enemy seemed to have more cover, shall we say. And we sort of ruled the night. What is it like there? Where is the most dangerous time? Is it during the day or is it during the night?
The night's very dangerous, Amy. You know, there's a little bit more cover at night, as you know. But right now, a couple of my bubba's are just getting back from the field with an FPV forward unit. And I have the videos. And as he was with the FPV forward unit, they can only take one. That's why I was in Karasan today. Got a little too close to the river.
And, you know, I'm sure if my wife watches this, she's not going to be real happy with me today. And, you know, but I wanted a coffee, Amy. I wanted a freaking coffee. So anyhow, and by the way, Amy, this cafe, one person in it working, one person there, and the person there was the daughter of the theater owner I had actually interviewed earlier in Nikolaev. which was the biggest coincidence.
His name was Alexander. Her name was Alexandra. And we sat down and she goes, why weren't you at the theater? I'm like, well, I interviewed this incredible, this incredible director who was taken by the Russians. She goes, oh, that's my dad. Anyway. So, but yeah, I, I think, I think what it comes down to right now
And I don't know if I'm already going over the same ground, but I do think that if at some point we're not aware of how effective they are at night, especially with thermal drones, we are in such trouble. Right now, the U.S., if we went into battle with as advanced tactics as Ukrainians and Russians have in drone warfare, I actually had my friend from the Foreign Legion say this.
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Chapter 7: What are the emotional impacts of the war on individuals?
And the people enabling that, I know we have great drone technology and I know we have swarm technology and works. I even know some of the companies. But I'm telling people right now, Terminator, it's not the robots that you needed to be afraid of in Terminator. It was the airborne assets in Terminator.
The ones that can see everything.
That's why I think in the next 10 years, I think you're going to see more and more standoff drone warfare where it's drone on drone until they can actually get to the soft pudgies, you know?
And it sounds like both sides are getting their drones, at least the parts, from China, right?
Many, many. What we're seeing, though, is that repairs are happening now. They're getting so good that they can repair with components from France, Germany.
uh from china from any country they can get the specific wiring if you look at how good russia and china is in the field now they can do those repairs in real time probably by scrounging at times some of the wiring and other the components that they need um and that's what you know i've seen you know with some of this so yes most of the stuff is coming from china but now that ukraine is going organic
Think about the rise in AI chips from NVIDIA or AMD. Think about Chinese chips, right, and Chinese stuff like DeepSeek and other things that they're using for AI. And people are like, well, Denver, you know, you're getting a little far-fetched, right? No, I'm not. Because as an automation layer, AI is incredibly effective. And if you're talking about a specific load of weaponry,
and the actual drones communicating based on that AI load or what they're looking at. And if you look at the resourcing needed, not that hard. I mean, it's hard, but I think in the next 10 years, you're going to see some of the most robust swarm, whether it's ISR, whether it's FPV, whether it's thermal, whether it's the larger drones, the larger payloads. Think about a drone.
It's not just like a predator, right? You know, with a hellfire and, you know, there's 500 pounders. But you're talking about 400 drones that are swarmed with 15 kilogram payloads.
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Chapter 8: How is the human element crucial in modern warfare?
Right. Do the Ukrainians see Americans differently now because we elected this president and he's not super supportive?
A little bit. Now, the Americans that are here, especially humanitarian like we're doing, and people need to remember that we're you know, I'm not a congressman anymore, a military member. Right. I'm here under my own volition. helping with humanitarian supplies. And the discussions we've had is we love the Americans. We know you all are Trump.
But, you know, they're like, but we really can't rely on you right now, can we? Boy. You know, I know that's a simple statement. But we know it. We know it. Right. We know it. And they said if we just if America would just come in, just come in. And give us what we need. Right? Stand with us. Stand beside us.
Because right now, the Ukrainians can teach us more than we can teach them about the type of warfare. They are creating. They are creating this new dynamic way of drone warfare in this environment. Things that... Amy, I wish you would come next time.
I know it's difficult, but I think when you see some of the dynamic processes they're using, what I got to see with their kit, their drone kit, the different payloads, the different sizes of drones, the fact that they can organically make their own, even though it's more expensive using their parts than China because they have to build them.
If America would come in right now, my guess is if we had a real president and a real national command authority that understood the situation and what America can learn, And right now what we could do to Putin's Russia, I think a real president, a real American would already be here making sure that they had the proper equipment and proper resourcing.
Yeah. And, you know, Trump has said recently Putin's gone crazy in his remarks. And I, of course, I don't believe really anything Trump says. But the reality is Putin hasn't gone crazy. He's always been a cold blooded killer. He's always been somebody who tortured POWs and stealing children, killing civilians. And from my view here back in the United States, I don't see an end to this story.
war anytime soon because the ukrainians care so much about their country and they know that vladimir putin cannot be trusted and so my question to you is do the ukrainians that you talk to out there do they feel like hey there's a ceasefire coming right around the corner or we're gonna we're gonna get to a sustainable peace soon i mean what are they saying what are they thinking
So I had four Ukrainians last night till about one in the morning. I thought I could sleep in a little bit, but an air raid siren went off in Mykolaiv.
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