The School of Greatness
Robert Herjavec: “This Mindset Took Me From Poverty To Multimillionaire”
Wed, 5 Feb 2025
I'm going on tour! Come see The School of Greatness LIVE in person!Get my new book Make Money Easy here!My conversation with Shark Tank's Robert Herjavec left me truly inspired. From his humble beginnings as an immigrant living in poverty to becoming one of the most successful tech entrepreneurs, Robert's story is a masterclass in resilience and reinvention. What struck me most was his emphasis on joy – not just experiencing it, but embodying it as a transformative force in business and life. He opened up about his darkest moments, including thoughts of suicide, and how serving others at a homeless shelter helped him rediscover his purpose. Whether you're an entrepreneur looking to scale your business or someone seeking to find meaning in your journey, Robert's insights on moving from hard work to smart work, and his perspective on wealth versus true fulfillment, will challenge your thinking and inspire action.Robert Herjavec on YouTubeIn this episode you will learn:Why obsession trumps passion in business success, and how to know the differenceThe crucial shift from working harder to working smarter that unlocked Robert's path to wealthHow to create emotional connections with customers, even in technical industriesThe three consistent traits Robert has observed in every billionaire he's metWhy simply working hard isn't enough to create wealth, and what actually drives financial abundanceFor more information go to https://www.lewishowes.com/1729For more Greatness text PODCAST to +1 (614) 350-3960More SOG episodes we think you’ll love:Codie Sanchez – greatness.lnk.to/1656SCDan Martell – greatness.lnk.to/1642SCNoah Kagan – greatness.lnk.to/1572SC Get more from Lewis! Pre-order my new book Make Money EasyGet The Greatness Mindset audiobook on SpotifyText Lewis AIYouTubeInstagramWebsiteTiktokFacebookX
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Welcome back, my friend, to the School of Greatness. If you are like me and you love business and entrepreneurship, if you love how to turn creative ideas in your mind into a reality, into the physical world, to be of service to other people, then this is going to be the episode for you. And for years... years, I have been watching a show called Shark Tank.
And we've interviewed many of the sharks on this podcast over the years, some of my friends who we've had on here, who have helped invest in small entrepreneurs and business owners for years on Shark Tank and also just inspired people through educating and informing them how to really grow a business.
And today I get to interview Robert Herjavec, who I've always been inspired by he's kind of like one of the nicest sharks, it seems like on Shark Tank. And I've always been inspired by his insight and his generosity. And he is a powerful business leader, entrepreneur. And today we're talking about how to explore the deeper dimensions of building wealth and living a life of purpose.
He's going to share intimate details about his journey, including a powerful story on how hitting rock bottom led him to rediscover his faith and joy. There are so many moments where Robert had to pause and think and really reflect about the questions and the conversation we were talking about because he hadn't. been asked some of these questions ever.
So it was fun to have this conversation with him where a lot of these individuals who are on TV or doing a lot of interviews, usually get asked the same questions. But as you guys know, I like to go off script a lot and ask things that I'm feeling based on how someone's energy is, how their heart is, and how our connection is before the interview actually starts.
And he reveals game-changing insights about the difference between hard work and smart work, why real wealth requires more than just passion, and how to maintain joy while pursuing ambitious goals. He's shared so many cool stories right off the bat that I think you're really going to love. So make sure to take notes. Share this with one friend.
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17.
17 years on Shark Tank. We have many mutual friends that... that you're buddies with that I've had on the show as well. And you just have an inspiring story and an inspiring life. And I'm glad we got to connect a little bit before this because...
You've been inspiring young and old entrepreneurs for many years to learn about how to grow their business, how to launch a product, how to package and position their product. And, I mean, your story is pretty fascinating because you're an immigrant. You're an immigrant family. I think you came to Canada when you were eight. Mm-hmm. But you didn't have anything. Your dad didn't have any money.
You guys were living in extreme poverty. So how do you learn to go from, I guess, a poverty situation and turn it into an abundance mindset? When does that learn switch for you of like, we're in poverty, whether you knew it or not, but you had a poverty mindset, or maybe you didn't, but you're experiencing poverty. When does that switch on to abundance of wealth mindset? It's a great question.
And that's a great question. Somebody asked me yesterday because they knew my story. I went for a medical and the nurse was like, oh my God, I read about your story and you came to Canada with nothing. Blah, blah, blah. It must have been so hard. And the truth is it wasn't. I mean, it was my mom and dad escaping from a country, coming to Canada on a boat with one suitcase and
And I'm the only child. Wow. So for them, absolutely, horrifically hard. Didn't speak the language, had no money, my dad was in jail, could never go back, the whole nine yards. Wow. Comes to a country, doesn't know anybody, doesn't speak the language. Now, I'm eight years old, first time on a boat. It's an adventure. It's an adventure. Interesting.
Poverty wasn't my mindset and I think that's a big difference. I think people that are born into poverty or encompassed in poverty, it's harder to get out of. My mindset was joy. Really? So I grew up on a small village with my grandma. the traditional vision of poverty with dirt floors. We didn't have a phone. Like it was one of those, like it was a village. There was one phone.
If you want to get ahold of my grandmother, you called the guy with the phone and he came to me. But I didn't know we were poor because everybody around me lived like we lived. In joy. Oh, I mean, everyone around you lived the same. The same. So it wasn't you were rich, I was poor. We all lived in a little dirt floor outhouse. It was fine. But as a child, we had animals and it was joy.
I didn't realize that we were poor until we came to Canada. And when I went to school, I remember this so clearly. I don't remember the journey. I don't remember any of it. My mom thinks I blocked it all out. But I remember the first day of school and kids picking on me and making fun of me and telling me I'm a poor immigrant.
wow first day of school first day of school because you know you don't speak english either at this point right and there was no english classes so they just threw you in and that must have been kind of terrifying also terrifying i don't know what's this teacher saying yeah and i came from environment where i was really a lot of fun but my dad was the youngest of 15. tons of cousins.
And I go into an environment where I literally don't speak the language and kids are making fun of me. I really don't know why they're making fun of me. So I learned poverty and I learned poor as a situation. So I never thought I was poor, I just thought the situation we were in is poor. And I know it's a very subtle difference, but I think you learn your mindset.
And I think poverty is a learned mindset, and I think abundance is a learned mindset. I didn't learn a wealth mindset until later on. And I always think if I would have learned an abundance mindset sooner, I would be much wealthier today.
Wow. So what is a poverty or poor mindset versus a wealth or abundance mindset? What do they both encompass?
The beginning for me is a poverty mindset is when you believe you're poor. or you believe that you are the cause of the situation you're in, or you believe that external circumstances have made you what you are. I never believed I was poor. I just believed our current situation was poor. Really? So I got to a point where I didn't want to be in that situation anymore.
But there was nothing wrong with me. My mom loved me. I was a good human being.
I just had to get out of the situation. So how do you learn then to get out of a situation of, I guess, poverty or not having a lot? How do you learn? Is it a skill? Is it a shift of energy? Is it a shift in thinking that allows you to get out of that situation? Is it a shift of I need to act in a different way? I need to become something different in order to create abundance?
What does that shift look like? Yeah, that's a great question too. And how old were you when you were like, okay, I'm not poor personally, but I'm in an environment that isn't thriving.
Probably around 12 because it was just such a crappy environment and we had no money and at that point I'd been poor in my mind for four years. We constantly moved schools so you know when you're an immigrant you make a little bit of money, you live in a crappy apartment, you make a little bit of money, you live in a better apartment. And so on.
So by 12, I'd gone to like three different high schools. And my dad worked an unbelievable amount of hours, like two shifts. Manual labor, I'm going to say. Yeah, blue collar, factory, swept floors. I mean, eventually he became a millwright, taught it himself. Somebody gave him an opportunity. And, you know, they paid off their house, which was, you know, the immigrant dream. Right. But...
I think at 12, I'd been living like that for four years and we went to a better high school. And every time we went to a better school, the kids around me had more. The richer. Yeah. You're like, I've got a little more, but they've got a lot more. So I'd be like, I'd be in this high school and we'd make a little bit of money and I was poor, but the other kids weren't that much better off.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then we moved to a better house and now the kids were way better off. And I was just like, wow, I'm never going to get out of this cycle. How do you get out of this cycle?
Do you feel like you've gotten out of that cycle at this season of your life? Because now as you start to generate wealth, you're around people that have a million dollars, then a hundred million dollars, then billions. And you're like... Do you find yourselves kind of still in that at some times?
Very, very true. What's the saying? You are the net result of five people you hang out with. And I think it's really true. I think that you are It's very, very, very rare and hard to raise yourself up on your own. I think if your environment, your parents, your friends are constantly pulling you back, it's hard to keep going. I think back and I think,
none of my friends I grew up with ever made it. And it would have been so easy to stay there. But I think as you do more and you get more, your circle influence and your friends becomes wider.
Right. So when was that switch then for you? You're 12, you start to become aware that, okay, we're moving around, but I'm still in this poor environment compared to everyone else around me. Was it an energy shift, a thinking shift, or an action shift that allowed you to say, I'm now creating abundance in my life? Yeah, that's a great question.
For me, it was an energy shift. Now, I've always been pretty high energy, right? So I've always been like, go, go, go, go. What I didn't realize at the time was I was looking for external things to make me better. It took me a long time to realize I can't take external things to make me better until I become better. I always say, show me a small business in trouble
and I'll show you an entrepreneur in trouble. Wow. It's very, very difficult to disassociate a lazy, unmotivated entrepreneur with a highly successful business and vice versa. And that was me at 12. I was just pure energy, bouncing off the walls. Like we talked about, I wanted to be a detective. I wanted to join the FBI. I wanted to be an actor because immigrants think,
If you're on TV, you're rich. You're making money, yeah. Like I just wanted not to be poor. But I didn't know how to be rich. Interesting. And I didn't understand that mindset. And as corny as it sounds, it always starts with you. It always starts with discipline. It starts with habit. It starts with learning.
So what did you start learning to support you from going to poor to abundance mindset?
Sales. People always think I'm wealthy because I'm really good at computers. And I am. I'm probably one of a handful of the top cyber people in the world. But I'm not wealthy because of my knowledge of a task. I'm wealthy because of my knowledge of sales. and how to sell what I'm doing to other people.
What was the first lesson you learned in sales or the first sale you ever made in life?
You can't force somebody to buy something they fundamentally don't need. And I was very lucky that way because if I would have been taught the used car sales mini schlocky way, I mean, I was just hungry for knowledge. Like I would have gone any way. Like I always think if somebody would have taken me under their wing and they were like a con man, I would have been a con man, right?
I was just very lucky. Like you and I talked about it. I got to learn from a guy named Harry Rosen, who was a legend in Canada, one of the biggest men. And he was just a nice human being. So I went there to buy a suit. And it was like, this is a long time ago, it was like $1,200. $1,200.
And you're like, this is crazy.
And I'm like, oh my God, I can't afford $1,200. We have more money than I'll make this month, kind of. Wow. And the salesman said to me, you know, if you work here, you get to buy one suit every six months at 50% off. So I was like, great. So I got a part-time job there. And I got a job there. And the guy who owns the place called Harry Rosen, now it's a multi-billion dollar company.
But Harry used to teach on Saturdays. If you showed up an hour before the store opened, he would teach you how to dress. That's cool. You'll love this. So like the guy's a legend. It was like, even then it was like the biggest shop in Canada ever.
And he says, show up at 7, 30, because there's a store open at 9, and I'll teach you everything you need to know about dressing law and how to sell to men. And I'm like, I'm so excited. I leave. It was like a Wednesday. I show up on Saturday. Nobody there. Nobody there. So it's just him and I. Wow. No one else shows up. No one else shows up.
So later in the day, I say to my buddy, hey, how come nobody showed up? You know what he says? No one's paying me to show up. Interesting. Isn't that interesting? Your friend.
My friend.
Yeah, unless I'm getting paid.
Unless I show up at 9 because I get paid at 9.
Yeah, I don't get paid. Interesting. I don't get paid. What I heard is, I don't get paid. He said, I don't get paid to learn. And I always thought, man, I don't need to get paid to learn. I'll learn for... I'll pay to learn from the best. I thought I would have paid him to teach me. It was great. He taught me everything. He taught me everything. How to dress, how to spot someone with money.
So I've always been lucky to kind of found that. Then I worked for Warren Avis who started Avis Rent-A-Car. I've just been really fortunate to have great role models who are good human beings.
I mean, those two, I guess, mentors and people you worked for, they both have billion dollar brands now, right? Multiple billion dollar brands? Yes. That's kind of rare that when you're in your teens, early 20s, you randomly, how do you, is it a random thing or do you just know, oh, this guy could be something one day? That's pretty impressive. I just... You could have worked anywhere.
I could have worked anywhere. You could have worked at a local restaurant or a barbershop that wouldn't have been this mega-billion-dollar business, but you worked for these two jobs.
That's a great question. I think, how did I end up there, right? Because I think back and I think, none of my buddies got a job at a men's club. And so if I think about it, what I've always been good at is not lying to myself. I think I've always been brutally honest with myself.
Like I told you, I went on my first sales call and went to see a customer and the customer said to me, you dress like crap. I've never had an ego for success. So if somebody said something to me and there was even an ounce of truth to it, I would take it in. I would leave my ego at the door. So when somebody said to me, you dress like crap, it wasn't like, oh, I'm so offended.
What are they talking about? It was like, Oh, do I dress like crap? And then you go home and you look in the mirror and you're like, yeah, I dress like crap. How do I get better? And then it just looked up the best men's store. Wow. So I've always had an ability, I think, to be honest with myself. There's a saying that the biggest lies in life we tell are the ones we tell ourselves.
What's been the biggest lie you've been telling yourself lately? um that i'm the biggest lie i've been telling myself lately is that uh i've made it i got to a point where i felt like i've kind of made it and just in the last few months i've been thinking hang on a sec Because you tend to, you know, like I'm older now, I'm 62, and you think, oh, I'm kind of at the end of the road.
Because I know a lot of older people who are super successful and they're like kind of encosting and it begins to affect me. And I kind of went a few months where I'm like, yeah. And then one day I'm like, hang on a sec. like age is a number and there's lots of people that can start something at this age and I have more capital than I've ever had. So yeah, I think I can still do it again.
Interesting. So you've, the lie I've been telling yourself is you've made it. but what is making it? When have you made it? If someone looks at you or watches this and they're like, if Robert doesn't think he's made it with all the money he has, all the success from multiple industries, from TV to personal brand to social media, everything you touch has blown up.
If he doesn't think he's made it, I have no chance of making it. That's such a great question because you think about that.
When you're starting out, you always think, oh, if I had a bigger house. Like, you know, you live here and you drive by Bel Air. Sure. And you think, oh, if I had a house over there, I made it. Or you have a, I don't know, a Corvette. You think, oh, if I had a Ferrari. And you think, oh, if I had a jet. And then you have a jet. And then you think, what if I had a
Like when I sold my last company, in my mind, I had a G4. Right. And I used to think, I mean, this is how shallow it was. I used to think, oh, if I had a G6, come on. But then I made it because my G4, my G5 and so I sold the business and literally within two weeks I bought a G6 and this is a long time ago. Now I think, I don't think in terms of things of making it, I think in terms of potential
So when I think I haven't made it, I don't think I've reached my potential. There is no car I want to buy or no jet I need to buy or no home I need to buy to fulfill me. What I need is I need to feel like I've drained every part of my potential. I want to feel like when I'm on my deathbed that I say, I couldn't have done more. And whatever that is, because I think it's different for everybody.
So for me right now, it's really about getting super fit. It's about starting another business. It's just about taking everything I've learned and applying it.
You have a series on social media that's about the lessons you've learned from billionaires. And you've been around a lot of billionaires. And people can go on your Instagram and TikTok and YouTube and watch all these videos. I think they're really interesting lessons. But if you could share the top three lessons you've learned from billionaires, what would those three lessons be?
Well, number one, knee jerk is absolute obstinate obsession about their skill set. Not about the world in general, but about that one thing. Do you know what I mean? All the billionaires I know would struggle on Jeopardy. Right. General knowledge doesn't get rewarded, specific knowledge. And so that's the first thing that comes to mind.
I don't know a single billionaire that isn't a world class expert at a very narrow singular task. I think the second one would be curiosity. It's hard to be abundant if you're not curious. I love to learn. How did you start the podcast? I'm fascinated. And I think that comes into because people of great wealth tend to be problem solvers. We tend to like problems.
And I think the third one would be discipline. Now, discipline is different. Discipline to me is fit body, fit mind, fit business. But I have billionaire friends who are slobs. Sloppy, right? Yeah. They eat like crap, they're overweight, they don't care, but they're extremely disciplined about their business. I think the discipline applies to who you are and everybody can be different.
I think those are the three.
Here's a question for you that I think a lot of people, because I have a lot of fit people in my audience, a lot of fitness professionals and people in the health and wellness industry, who struggle at making money. They're really good at taking care of their health and they're jacked or they're fit or they eat all the right foods, but they haven't unlocked how to create financial abundance.
So if someone is healthy physically, emotionally, spiritually, but financially hasn't cracked that code yet, what is missing from them to create that financial abundance?
It's a great question. I think it's the same reason why people who are wealthy aren't fit. What is that reason? They look at the superficial, easy ways to do it. So people that have a lot of wealth think that they can get fit by taking a drug or surgery or they look for placebo type band-aids. I think anything hard is discipline and habit.
So people that are super fit have discipline and habit, but they're like me when I was a teen. They don't know where to apply it. You know, interesting story for you, uh, years ago, cause I've always been a pretty fit guy. So years ago, the army Rangers reached out to me and asked if I'd like to go to the training camp and, you know, I think I'm pretty fit.
And so I was like, yeah, rah, anyway, long, long story. I went completely kicked my ass, huge amount of respect for people in the military, the discipline. When it was done, I sat down with the guy who ran the training program and they kind of did an analysis of over the last couple of weeks, what you did well, what you didn't. And I said to him, people in the military must be great at business.
Because think about it, discipline, habit, like no one has that more than army rangers or most people in the military. He said something very interesting, which was, it's very rare that people in the military do well in business. Why is that? Why do you think?
I think because they're used to be following the rules and taking orders probably and saying, what do I need to do to make sure that my... boss is happy and staying in line with the team. That's part of it.
And that was my answer.
Because you can't break the military mold of how things are done. This is the way it's done. We're not going to change because you have a different opinion about how to run our unit. So I said the same thing.
And that's part of it. But he said there's a bigger reason. Tell me, yeah. And the bigger reason is purpose. People join the military because they have a need to do something greater than themselves. Think about that. You're willing to lay your life down for our country. Think about that commitment. That's not... Gee, do I, you know, am I kind of into it or not?
Like that is an all in passionate commitment. I am willing to die for my cause. So then they leave the military, they get a job in sales and their boss says, if you don't make your number, we're not going to make it for the quarter. and they struggle with that. They're void of purpose. When you have that great a purpose and that leaves you, it's very hard to replace it with a different purpose.
You would think they could, but he said that was the reason. And so I think it's both. I think people with great wealth don't have a purpose to get fit and people that are super fit, really at the core. Show me somebody who's done great things and I'll show you somebody with unbelievable purpose.
Interesting. Have you ever had a point in your life where you tied your self-worth with your net worth? Wow.
Yeah, probably my 20s, to admit it. Yeah, I was very superficial because my understanding of wealth was very external. It was everything that I saw other people. So my definition of wealth was how other people spent it, what kind of car they had, what kind of a house I had. Because I never really met anybody who had great wealth.
I always say there's superficial wealth, which is you live for the way you think you should. You buy a nicer car, you get a bigger lease, you get a bigger mortgage because you think those are the things that you need in order to be successful. And I think once you really achieve great success, you begin to realize I don't actually need another car. I don't need these things to fulfill me.
But yeah, I think in my 20s, I was very... How does someone today not tie their self-worth with their net worth? Maybe they're not making a lot of money right now. How do they not let it affect their identity or their core of who they are and the way they feel about themselves because they're not making $100,000 or millions or these things? Well, I...
I think your net worth is not a reflection of your value. Poverty and wealth are situational. So somebody listening to this could be making 50 grand a year, but they're a high power, high value individual.
everybody's at a different stage of their journey you just got to believe that you're learning the skill set in order to get there one day and you've got to have a greater purpose in order to get there so I never thought I was gonna end up where I was You never thought you'd end up where you are now? Well, I never thought I'd end up like I am now.
But even when I was poor, I never thought I'd stay there. Got you. I see what you're saying. It's just that the scope of my dreams wasn't big enough. My dream in my 20s was to make $1,000 for my age. So when I'm 50 to make 50 grand to buy a house and pay it off in my lifetime. Wow. And to buy a Corvette. That was your dream. That was my dream.
That was my like that was the that was my vision board dream. Like that was my like knock it out of the ballpark dream because we didn't know anybody who had done those things. How did you begin to expand your mind to shatter that limit? Again, super curious, super honest with myself. When I bought a used Ferrari and I moved into my house, I was so proud of it.
It was a 1986 Ferrari Testarossa and it was used and there weren't that much money at the time. And I brought it over to my garage and I put it in. And this was my superficial state. So I moved into this neighborhood and I see my neighbor across the street. And his name is Richard, still a friend of mine. So I go over and I'm like, hey, blah, blah, blah. Oh, by the way, look at my car.
You want to see my Ferrari?
So he comes over out in the garage and I'm so proud of it. I've never been arrogant. Like, let me show you why I'm better. I was just so happy. So I show him my Ferrari and he's like, oh my gosh, that's amazing. I love that year. He says, come to my garage. So we go across the street to his garage. He opens up the garage and he has two Porsches. Uh-huh.
And, you know, it's those moments in life that something happens. You're ready to learn it, but you don't know what you need to learn. And then something comes in and those two things fit and it's an aha moment. And I remember it so clearly. He opens the garage. There's two Porsches. And I worked my ass off to buy a used Ferrari.
it took everything I knew to get that car and it wasn't like it was one of many I was it was that and I walked across the street and that guy has two and I couldn't fathom how that could happen like I was like how could he do that interesting And so I walk back and I was thinking, there's something I need to be better at because the road I'm going, I'm never going to get there. Really?
Because you're like, I've worked as hard as I can work and this is what I got. Every piece of knowledge, every bit of hard work, every bit of discipline I had got me one Ferrari.
Now, here's an interesting thing I think everyone needs to pay attention to and and be mindful of what you're about to say. Because I think what you're about to say from this question I ask you is going to break everyone's minds open. Because a lot of people are thinking, I work 15, 18, 20 hour days already and for years I've been working hard at a job.
And I'm not getting the exponential growth I'd like. Barely making incremental growth. And I don't see a way, I can't work any harder to create more wealth for myself. What is the thing that you learned then in that moment about hard work versus creating wealth?
Because yes, you need to work hard, but what is the thing that broke you open from saying, I'm going to work a different way that's going to unlock wealth? That's such a great question.
My dad worked in a factory his whole life, two shifts, paid off his house in his lifetime. Super successful guy in his world. I will never work a day in my life harder than my dad worked, ever. That man was the hardest working human being I'd ever come across. Just because you work hard, though, doesn't mean you'll be rich. Oh, man. What it means is you won't be poor.
And there's a fundamental difference between the blue collar poverty mindset and the wealth abundance mindset. And what I learned in that moment is I literally frigging couldn't give more. I was sleeping four hours a day. I was great at my task. I was driving my company as hard as hard as I possibly could and he gave me one Ferrari. It's still cool but yeah. Super cool. Nothing wrong with that.
But you didn't see how you could get more. Yeah and the first part was did I want more? Ah. Was that important to me? And people misunderstand that. They're like oh yeah I'd like more Ferraris. It was never about more Ferraris. It was just about How do I get more? How do I get more value, more worth? How do I get a better life? And so I said, yes, I definitely want more. Why not? Why not me?
And so that was the first part. Big lesson for me, though, is you have to pivot. Hard work is absolutely foundational, but smart work is pivoting.
So what did you learn from going to hard work to smart work to create more financial abundance? Value.
What I learned is markets and people will pay for value, not for time. People will pay you for your knowledge, not for how long you've been doing it, or the amount of hours you're going to spend on it, or those kind of things. And what I realized is I wasn't creating enough of that.
Really?
26, 27.
Okay, I want to hear this story because I have a similar story. And so I write about this Tony Robbins, and this is the early Tony Robbins when he was like, you know, bigger than life. And he was coming to Toronto, and me and four buddies went to buy tickets. Uh-huh. Only one of us bought a ticket and showed up. Wow. All my buddies were like, oh, it's a waste of time.
So I go there and I bought like the super expensive ticket, right? Like the one that came in front row. And Tony walks in and it's like, boom. And I was like, wow. Like I'm high energy. That guy is transformational energy. Wow. What I realized was all my energy was internal. I was doing a great job of influencing me, of making me better. I saw Tony
And I realized I need to make other people better. So I need to make my employees better. I need to make the people I work with, like I need to make them that. And then I need to bring transformation to my customers. And what started for me was a outward transformation of my energy. Before that, I was highly motivated on my own.
But if you met me, you wouldn't have walked away and said, oh my God, that guy's like, boom. After that, if you met me, you would have said, that guy's full of joy. And I started changing our sales pitch to our customers away from product focus to a subconscious focus. I started thinking about why people buy and not what they're buying.
And so many people watching are so focused on product features. Why is my product better? We said those things are important, but until we engage people, until we open their minds, they're really not going to listen to us. So we started in our sales calls Why did they say that? How did they say it? How were they sitting? What did you say? All those things. And none of our competitors.
Keep in mind, we're in a very, very technical field. And we're out talking to people about how they feel. Interesting. In order to sell them really technical stuff.
Can you give an example of what that slogan or line of marketing material might look like or if someone's speaking about it to a potential customer? You're not selling tech or cyber technology, right? Or cybersecurity software or tech. What are you then selling?
We're selling comfort and we're selling safety. You know, there's the good salespeople sell features, great salespeople sell outcomes. And really great salespeople sell feelings. So I pivoted our company and I said, if the only thing you get out of the sales call is that the customer feels better, we've achieved something. Because that gives you the opportunity for another call.
And I didn't come up with the saying, but the saying is, people never remember what you say. They remember how you make them feel. And when I sold my first company to AT&T, interesting story, So everything I've learned about business, I learned on my own. I don't have a business degree. I have a degree in classical English literature. So I sold my first company to AT&T for, I think, $32 million.
35, 34.
I mean, $32 million for a kid that wanted to make $50 grand. That's a lot of money. Yeah, a lot of money. So AT&T does the due diligence on the business. They hire an external company. Anyway, long story, they bring me in and they say to me, we have a problem. I'm like, what's the problem? They said, well, you know, we hired this external company. We looked at your systems.
We looked at the way you do ticketing, blah, blah, blah, blah. And we measured it with all your customer response and it's not great. And so I'm thinking, oh my God, I'm not going to get the $32 million. So I'm scrambling and I'm like, hey, did you ask those customers if they would buy from me again? And they're like, yeah, actually we did.
So they flipped to the last page and they said, 97% of your customers said they would buy from you again, despite all of these things. And I said, you ask them why? And they said, yes. And they said two reasons. One, you made them happy. And two, they believed if they had an issue, you would take care of them.
And so you think about how many people are starting a business, how many people have a product that doesn't emotionally connect with their customers.
That's beautiful. Yeah, especially like in a whole tech world, like how can you humanize it or make a feeling come from that type of a product or a service? where it may not seem like it's supposed to make it.
It's not even just tech, though. You look at retail today. I just did an interview with Forbes or somebody about this. And the reporter said to me, they think retail is dead. And I don't think it is. I think we're going to see a resurgence in retail. But I don't think people are going to go to the mall to look around. You know, like, oh, I'm here. What shops are here?
I think people that depend on location to survive are going to be in trouble. But I think brands have an emotional connection. Like I will drive to a mall to buy Lululemon. I will drive to a mall to buy canned goose because those brands speak to me. So I think it's in everything. I think it's in tech. I think it's in fashion. We see it on Shark Tank. Yeah.
This has been fascinating, Robert. I'm so glad you're opening up. I've got a handful of questions left for you. There's so many things I would like to talk about, but there's a few things I want to make sure we get to. One is faith. How much has...
faith in god or in religion or in the universe played in your life from childhood to now and how much do you put awareness around your faith and also into what you're going to create for the future of your life
Yeah, great question. So I've really struggled with my faith in my lifetime. Started out very religious, altar boy for many years, became very cynical about it, became a superficial Christian, meaning I believed in my God and my faith when it was convenient for me. And then went through a horrific time and found my faith again. So kind of left, cynical.
Left, cynical, believed that I didn't need God or faith or anything else in my life. believed I was in control of my own destiny. And we are, but there's a greater plan.
What was the season of time where you were feeling that was a rough season for you? 2014.
I've I was going through a really really difficult time and like I mean like to the point I didn't think the Sun would rise again and like suicidal thinking yeah yeah like contemplate suicide came close like it was and you know I mean you know me a little bit now
i've always been a happy guy and i've always believed like i was superman wow and i lost it all like i realized i had kryptonite and uh i was just like downward downward downward and uh a good friend of mine john saw me spiraling like like i was a shell of what i was
Is this emotionally? Is this like alcohol or drugs? Or is this just like, you know, panic attacks? Is this just anxiety, depression?
Emotional. Just emotional. I was going through a horrible divorce and just family stuff and like just horrible. And John, thank God, he's a priest, he said to me, I need you to go somewhere and you have to have faith in me to trust me to go here. And so I did. I flew to Seattle on my super fancy plane.
And got off the plane and I met one of his friends who was a pastor in Seattle and he took me to a homeless mission and I spent the next month or so there. I spent the first couple of weeks at the mission, then I got a hotel, and it was absolutely transformational. Wow. Yeah.
Being in service for a month to the homeless in that city.
Well, I think the first thing, as horrible as this is going to sound, I felt so sorry for myself that seeing people who were worse off than me was just a bit of a wake-up call. Sure. Of course. Perspective. Like I'm going there on my jet, have thought about suicide, contemplated suicide, didn't think I had any value left to give in the world. Flying on my jet. Sure, sure.
Meeting a guy who literally has nothing, not nothing because he doesn't know if his life has meaning, like literally has nothing. And Union Gospel Mission is a Christian, like you have to go there for a year. It's for homeless, addicts and so on. So I think that was the first thing is like, I just like, wow, these like, what am I complaining about kind of thing?
And then the second part of it was just getting back to purpose. If you don't love yourself and you feel like you have nothing to give, you can't give to anyone else. And I was void of me. Going there was a wake-up call and getting back to my faith, getting back to seeing value in me. Like I went there broken, and I left there like, whoo!
And people have a funny, because I meet a lot of people with faith who believe in God and other things, and they always think, how can you be so motivated and have so much faith? And people don't understand that faith doesn't mean that you give up control of your life to someone else. Like I hate when people say that, oh, my life is in God's hands. And I'm like, But you got to do something.
Like I think we were given this opportunity in life and we've got to make the most of it. And I think that was the greatest thing I got out of that month is just the feeling of back to joy.
how does someone learn to know they are valuable? Like, you got to a place where you were broken, right? You were broken, but you had, I don't know, hundreds of millions of dollars, private jet, you had success, you're on TV, you're doing these things that people would dream of having.
How does someone learn to know that they are valuable, whether they have lots of money or don't have lots of money?
Such a great question, because I always think about that. Like, I think about how... arrogant was I to have all this stuff and feel so sorry for myself? Why couldn't I, on my own, figure that out? Why couldn't I have used some of my wealth to do good? How shallow was I to focus on my own misery? It took the misery of others for me to realize that.
And I always think, how arrogant and shallow is that? But I think, I think it's hard. I think it's really hard to ask for help when you feel you're in control of your own destiny. Right. And like, I think, I think powerful people and strong people have a hard time asking for help and I just needed help. I mean, it could have been anything.
What do you ask God for today?
Peace. I mean, I pray for peace. I pray for joy. I just want my family to feel fulfilled, right? And I think about I also think, I was just talking to somebody about this, they said, do you worry about your legacy? And I think, no, because once I'm gone, I'm gone. But what do I want my kids to remember about me? And I want them to remember the joy. and the love. That's beautiful.
I mean, I think that's what every human being wants. Love, joy, peace. And I would also add financial success. Because I think those aren't separate. I think if you live in North America you have to make a certain amount of money to take care of your family.
I mean that's just reality and that's one of the things I worry about America in the last few years it's become becoming wealthy almost became like a dirty word. It's one of the things I love about Shark Tank is you have Six of us, self-made, relatively nice people, and we show people every week that anybody can do it.
Yeah.
Why do you think so many people tie wealthy people with stingy, mean people? And why do they, you know, a lot of people will say, you know, they want wealth, but they're also afraid of wealth because they've seen how some people who are super wealthy maybe treat people poorly or are angry or whatever it might be, or stingy, not generous with their wealth.
Yeah, it's a great question. It's like sales. If you ask most people about sales, they would say to you, oh, I don't want to be a sales rep because they think used car salesman. But I'm sure with your experience, the greatest salespeople you've met are probably super nice and super helpful, right? Sales is the ability to help someone not to get them to buy something they don't need.
That's the same thing with wealth. Wealth is not the creation or the subjugation. What's the quote I read a long time ago? Power is not the subjugation of the weak. Power is the ability to get the powerful to see your vision. And I think it's true. I think most people that don't have wealth want an easy answer as to why they're not doing it.
If you could go back a year before 2014, a decade back, a year before you're about to go through your darkness, the sadness, the depression, the divorce, the horrible feelings you're feeling.
And if you were who you are now, and you could speak to that younger version of you 11 years earlier, and only gave him three pieces of advice, with everything you know he was about to go through, what three things would you say to that version of you right before you went through your darkest times?
The sun always rises tomorrow. I think the reason I went there is And not just personally, but in business, I tended to have these horrific, like, oh, my gosh, if we get this one deal, the world will change, good or bad. So I think that's the first thing I would say is the sun always rises. Like, don't make mistakes, though. Kill you. Don't bet at all on one thing kind of thing.
I think the second thing I would say is the world is your oyster. Like it really, like you think about, like somebody owns this building. And sure, they may have inherited it, but let's go back to the first, like somebody bought this land, built this building. Somebody created it. The world is incredible. Like the things we can do. And I think the third thing is you are all powerful.
You are all powerful. There is nothing we cannot achieve if we believe and we're willing to work hard enough.
That's beautiful. Again, there's a lot of things I'd love to ask you, but I want to be respectful of our time, Robert. I have two final questions for you before I ask them.
I want people to follow you on all of our social media and your YouTube because you, in the last few months, have been starting to share these stories that I don't feel like people have been able to see unless they watch Shark Tank. And they edit that stuff down into 30-second moments, and there's six of you, and so they don't get all of you.
But the wisdom you're sharing here, I feel like it's just scratching the surface about what you've been sharing online. So I want people to follow you on YouTube. I want people to follow you on Instagram. It's your name. We'll have it all linked up. But how else can we be of service or support to you today?
No, I think this was great. I mean, I'm a big fan. You've had some amazing guests on here. I appreciate you having me in that same company. I think this is great.
Cool. This question I ask everyone, there's two final questions. This one is called the three truths. Imagine you get to live as long as you want to live in this world, but it's your last day eventually in the future. And you get to create and accomplish all of your dreams from this moment until that last day.
But on this last day, for whatever reason, hypothetically, you've got to take all of your content with you. So all of your social media content, this interview, your books that you've written, it's all gone. So no one has access to your information anymore.
But on the last day, you get to leave behind three truths, three things you know to be true, kind of the three lessons you leave behind for everyone. And that's all we would have to remember your content by.
What would those three truths be for you? Number one, my family, because they are, especially my kids, they are the embodiment of, I hope they're the embodiment of what I am. Number two is joy. Without joy, there is no life. There is no wealth in misery. How many successful people are miserable? I think you can spike to success, but if you don't have joy, it fades.
How many successful people commit suicide and drugs and alcohol? Joy is everlasting. And I think the third one is empowerment. I think if you would hope that when you leave that you've empowered somebody in their life to do something better.
Yeah.
It's one of the great things about Shark Tank. Where was I just the other day? Somebody gave me a card and thanked me for being on the show and how much it affected them and their family. And I think, how great is that? To be on a show that inspires so many people for 21 years.
Millions of people. Millions of people. Before I ask the final question, Robert, I want to acknowledge you for the joy you brought today. Oh, thank you. I think there's... You know, I think a lot of people can learn from you, not from the lessons you share, but by the energy you bring. And I've heard the word joy and written it down and highlighted it multiple times from this conversation.
And for me, that's what I feel like what you embody is joy. And I believe it's probably one of the main reasons you've been successful in your TV career, in your business career, is because you've brought the joy consistently.
maybe i need to be more miserable because mark is pretty miserable and he's worth more money than i am no i'm joking yeah but is he living a fulfilled life you know probably you're like dang it he can wear whatever he wants yeah but i want to acknowledge you for for you know overcoming the pain and creating great perspective and i feel like you're living a life of extreme purpose by sharing your knowledge now in a bigger way i know we talked off camera about how
you know, is it even worth doing this social media stuff? And it's like, I can't really quantify, like, is there money here? You know, is there opportunities for business? You never know how much of an impact you can make on someone when you share a story. And you are incredible at sharing stories, whether it be on TV, here, but also in your social media.
And the people will remember the feeling of the stories you share for a long time. And so I acknowledge you for diving into this chapter, whether you do it for years or a few more months of social media. But sharing your knowledge for free is an incredible gift that you're giving to the world. And I acknowledge you for that. And I acknowledge you for bringing the joy when you share. Thank you.
Of course. My final question, Robert, what's your definition of greatness? Wow.
Geez, that's such a great question because my dad was a great man and my mom was a great person. And my definition of greatness would be fulfillment of potential. So My dad never made any real money. But I think considering the pain and life he had, that man wrung every moment of his life. If I did nothing but what my dad did, that wouldn't have been greatness. Because I was given more.
Those that are given more need to do more. Those that have being given more, need to find greater purpose. So I never think that it just wasn't enough. Like I couldn't have achieved any level of greatness if I just simply did what my parents did. And I think a lot of people listening, it's the same thing, is you've got to find your own purpose. Yeah. That's beautiful.
What's your definition of greatness?
I'm trying to see if it's different than what I had a couple of years ago. For me, it is to discover your unique talents and gifts that you've been given and pursue those gifts to live your dreams. And in the pursuit of those dreams, make the maximum impact on the people around you. Wow. Yeah. Because we've all been given different talents and gifts that we need to learn to cultivate.
And then we are, I think we're given cues, feelings of what dreams we might have. There's a curiosity. There's something that pulls us into an idea for a potential dream. Something. Whether it's God or an intuition or a feeling that's pulling us or making us think about something. I'd like to create that. I'd like to build that. I'd like to overcome that. I'd like to help this thing.
I'd like to make this thing. Something that pulls us. And then we need to cultivate the talents and gifts within us to pursue that dream. And in that pursuit, I think it's doesn't have to be changing the world, but it needs to be changing the world around you, impacting the world in a positive way around you. And if that's five people, your family, that's beautiful.
So I think that's what your mom and dad did. They impacted you and the people in their community because that was their reach. And you've been given different gifts and talents that you've cultivated and maximized to this level. And you feel like you've got to maximize more to the next level. And in that pursuit of the new dream, how will you impact people around you?
The people closest to you, but also the platform you've been building, how will you impact those individuals as well?
So well said, because I think, you know, it goes back to God and faith. I think that There's no one external that's going to do it for you. But the signs are there. Yes. And you never know how the dots connect until you look back. That's true. When... When I first, when Kevin and I first got on Shark Tank, we started in Canada. We started a show called Dragon's Den.
And the very first day they put me in a room, you know, just to see how you'd react on TV like this. Sure, sure. And they threw these fire questions like, tell me what EBITDA is. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But they were random questions. And one of the questions was, why do you want to be famous?
Hmm.
What did you say? Just to see what you'd say. What I said is, so I can get on Dancing with the Stars. Shut up. You did not say that. I did, 100%. Everybody laughed and thought that was funny. What people didn't see was 10 years before that, My mom's favorite show was Dancing with the Stars. Wow.
So imagine a little Eastern European immigrant woman, horrible life, watching this beautiful show with these beautiful dancers. Like if you called my house on a Monday when the show was on, my mom would answer the phone and go, like, bye, you call. I watch the show. Mm-hmm. My mom ended up getting ovarian cancer and she went to the hospital and she was there for a year.
And every Monday I would go to the hospital with the other women who had ovarian cancer and we'd all watch dancing. Wow. And one day my mom says to me, Robbie, you're so beautiful. Why not you be on show? And I say, without thinking about it, if they ever ask me, I'll do it for you. Wow. And my mom passes away. Ten years before I even had an inkling of being on TV.
Fast forward ten years later, I'm sitting in a room. They throw that question at me. First thing that comes to my mind. Fast forward another ten years. I'm going through this horrible time. I come out of it, fix myself, finally begin to think I have value in life again. Three days later, the producers of Dancing with the Stars ask me to be on the show. Oh, my gosh.
Like before they're finished asking me, I say yes.
Oh, my gosh.
I walk in. Wow. Meet the woman I'm going to marry. Oh, my God. And today I have this unbelievable life. I didn't create those dots. I believe life or a greater force or God, whatever your faith is, created those things. But it was up to me to connect the dots. And I think for anybody watching or listening, you have the power to connect those dots. Wow.
You have to have enough faith to believe it all connects, but you still got to get up every day, work your ass off, and make it happen.
We have, I mean, we have some similarities in life. I mean, obviously you're much more successful than me, but when I was sleeping on my sister's couch, I would watch that show. Dancing with the Sturgs. And I was like, I was living in Columbus, Ohio, and I was like broke, and I was like, but I loved to salsa dance.
Are you kidding me?
I started learning how to salsa dance after our, you know, when I was on my sister's couch. This is one of the things I was talking about beforehand. I learned public speaking and salsa dancing because they were big fears of mine. And so I'd watch this show and I traveled the world eventually salsa dancing in clubs, like social salsa dancing, not ballroom. Not joking you.
For like 18 years I've been traveling the world. You must be the biggest salsa dancer in the world. Biggest gringo salsa dancer ever, right? And I remember thinking, gosh, I wanted to be amazing to be on the show one day. I wasn't famous, you know, I had no money, but I was like, you need to become famous in order to get on this show.
And that was like, since I've been in LA for 12 years, I've always wanted to be on that show. I've always wanted to be on the show. So maybe one day I'll fulfill that as well. I'll introduce you to their producers. Do the cats, right? Yeah, exactly. I've met her. I've tried to pitch and stuff myself. I'm there. Many years I've tried. I mean, obviously, greatest experience I've ever had.
And the hardest experience. I can imagine. People don't realize how hard it is. Eight hours a day of training and the whole thing. I know a lot of the dancers as well, and they're friends of mine. I love the show. It's a great experience. But one day, maybe I'll be there. If it's still on air, maybe I'll make it one day.
Well, it's good to have a dream.
Exactly. Robert, this has been powerful. I appreciate you so much for coming on. Appreciate you. Thank you. Thank you. Amazing. Thank you so much for listening to this episode. If you enjoyed this and if you found value, make sure to share this with one friend. Just copy and paste the link and text a friend where you feel would be truly inspired by this episode as well.
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