The Prof G Pod with Scott Galloway
The Making of The White Lotus, Scott’s Surprise Cameo, and Hollywood’s Shifting Landscape — with David Bernad
Thu, 27 Feb 2025
David Bernad, the Emmy-winning executive producer for HBO’s “The White Lotus,” joins Scott to discuss the making of White Lotus, the start of Scott’s potential Hollywood career, and the shifting landscape of Hollywood. Stay until the end to hear a surprise about the next episode of The White Lotus! Follow David, @davidbernad. Scott opens with his thoughts on the growing influence of high earners on the economy and what it means for businesses and the middle class. Algebra of Happiness: you don’t need to respond to everything. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
Chapter 1: What is the introduction to this episode about?
Go, go, go!
Welcome to the 338th episode of the Prop G Pod. What's happening? The dog is back in London. He's howling. He's howling. He's fed up with the weather, but he's got a big fur coat so he can handle 55 and rainy. You know, the weather's not that bad here. It's actually, it's spectacular in London, a good 11 to 13 days a year. I mean, those days are just fantastic.
The other 352, not so much, not so much. Anyways, in Switzerland, went to Zermatt. One of the things I love about it is it doesn't have cars. It has these electric cars. And we stayed at this place called the Hotel Cherville. And we had a ski instructor that is a lingerie model and runs surf schools. in the summer in Bali. And then at night in Zermatt runs her family's creperie.
And we would stroll by and see this lyrically beautiful woman making crepes after she taught my kids how to snowboard for eight hours. I'm like, Jesus Christ, it's like a fucking Cinemax film. Is this for real? Seriously? Anyways, how did we get here? In Zermatt, back to London. Oh yeah, that's where we were. back in London, had a wonderful time, tried to ignore the news.
So America, what the fuck is going on? Is this a simulation? We're not going to talk about that. I'm done talking about it. Anyways, in today's episode, we speak with David Bernad, the Emmy-winning executive producer of HBO's hit, The White Lotus. Oh my God, little bit of surprise coming your way on The White Lotus. Little bit of a Easter egg coming right at you.
I'm not going to spoil it, but tune in. It is my favorite show since Game of Thrones, which I'm watching with my 14-year-old. It's a rite of passage for us. It has politics, sex. Geography, Magic, Sibling Rival. Literally, literally, Game of Thrones has everything. I took my son to the beach in Nantucket because his mother said it was time for us to have the sex talk.
So I took him down and said, it's time for the sex talk. He let out a scream like I have never heard before of no, and just begged me not to have the talk. And I said, fine, then we have to watch Game of Thrones because that'll give you 80 or 90% of everything you need to know.
But anyways, I have been watching Game of Thrones with my 14-year-old, but I'm really excited about season three of The White Lotus. They bring together something fairly simple, but it always has themes around. I think it's the seven deadly sins. They just do such a fantastic job. And this season is no different. Tune in now. Okay, let's move on to some news.
For the first time, the top 10% of earners, those making roughly a quarter of a million dollars or more a year, account for 50% of US consumer spending. 30 years ago, that number was just 36%. So what does that mean? More money, more spending across the top quintile. Now the economy is more dependent than ever on the ultra wealthy.
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Chapter 2: What are Scott's thoughts on the economic influence of high earners?
I have found that I'm spending all my money, or most of my money, on really two things. Real estate in beautiful places, one, because it's a 0.1% strategy, and I'll come back to that, and I want my kids not to be able to avoid me when they're adults and think, well, it'd be more fun to go to Tijuana, but yeah, my dad has a place in Aspen. We just have to have lunch with him every day.
Boom, hopefully they're in Aspen. And two, I buy into this 0.1% strategy. What do I mean by that? I think income inequality is only going to get worse. I'm going to fight it, but I think it's only going to get worse. I think essentially the Republican Party and the ruling party is the far right. They distract everybody with their kind of angry, coarse, anti-immigrant bullshit or whatever.
Whatever you want to call it. But what they're really trying to do is create controversy such that it's a misdirect where you look over here and avoid the compact they have with rich people. And that is a lot of rich people give some lip service to how upset they are about what's going on. But this is kind of the bargain that Trump and other right-wing governments have with rich people.
I'm going to cut your taxes. So you'll offer some sort of, quote, unquote, liberal bullshit faux concern. But you're really not going to get in the way of this, are you? Why? Because poor you, poor fucking you, your taxes are going to go down. And here's the thing. I'm not that worried about me. Anyone I know in my life that needs access to Mesa Festron is going to get it.
Anyone I know that needs legal protection from anyone abusing them because of employee or a violation of their rights, they're going to be fine because I have a shit ton of money to buy lawyers, right? If for some reason they started rounding up, name your favorite special interest group, which could happen with an economic shock here. in the United States. I don't think it happened in Britain.
I do think it could happen in the United States now, which is feeling a lot like early 30s Germany. I have the money for a go-back to get the fuck out of here. Here's the bottom line. Money equals rights. And the violation of rights that takes place is from the far right.
If you do believe it involves a violation of rights, you're protected from it if you're a rich person as long as you're getting richer. We are so focused on left versus right, we don't think about the real problem. The real problem or the real battle is up versus down, and that is the bottom 99 versus the top one.
And what we do is we divide and distract and anger the bottom 99, so they're not focused on the real battle here, and that is the Republican Party, in my view, taking money from the bottom 99 and putting it in the pockets of the top one. And this is another example of that. But we have income inequality that is absolutely out of control.
And what you see across the wealthiest people is in fact, they're exceptionally boring. What do I mean by that? They all party in St. Barts,
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Chapter 3: How did David Bernad become involved with The White Lotus?
David, where does this podcast find you?
Los Angeles, after two weeks on the road in Asia and D.C. So, lost my voice, but happy to be home. So, this show...
If I was, and there's a reason why I'm not an executive of HBO, but if I was pitched on the show, I'm not sure I would have seen it. It being this thing has sort of become a little bit of a cultural phenom. What do you think it is about this show that is tapped into it? When people ask me, I say, I love the White Lotus. I'm obsessed with it. And they say, why?
If they ask me about Game of Thrones, I can kind of explain why I'm obsessed with it. And what is it about this show, in your view, that just sort of tapped into this kind of zeitgeist? It's turned it into kind of this phenom.
I should clarify, I think if HBO was pitched this show, they probably would have passed because to their credit, they basically called Mike White and said, this is July of 2020 when COVID had started. They said, do you have an idea that you could do in a bubble that can be on the air in 2021? We'll do it. And Mike said, yeah, I got one. And he didn't even have an idea.
He basically had to come up with something in a month. And they basically sent us off to Hawaii. They had no idea what it was. They just trusted in Mike. And we came back with season one of White Lotus. But I think there's an honesty to the show that people respond to. I think, you know, Mike White, I think, is a genius. And he's an observer of humanity, an observer of character.
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Chapter 4: What makes The White Lotus resonate with audiences?
And I think he writes from a very authentic place. You know, Mike, we both love reality TV. Mike loves reality TV. I think he's tapping into what people love about reality TV, which is every person is not all good or bad or funny or dramatic. We're all, you know, most people are all flavors. And so I think he writes characters in that way and people really respond to that.
And I also think he talks about culture and the human experience in a very real, authentic way. And not a lot of people are doing that.
Give us a little bit of your backstory. How did you get to this position? And what exactly does an executive producer do? What have you been doing for the last three or four months?
Yeah, so I'm from D.C., grew up there, and I wanted to be a producer since I was a little kid. I came across a movie shooting in a mall in D.C. called First Kid, the Sinbad movie, when I was a kid, and somehow talked my way onto the set. I met the director, I met Sinbad, I met the other stars, and I kind of was like, this is what I want to do when I grow up, so...
I started in the mailroom at UTA and really wanted to start at the bottom, really wanted to kind of see all aspects of the business. And I was very fortunate to meet Mike White almost 20 years ago when I was at UTA. And I've been working with him ever since. And my parents don't know what a producer does. I don't think anyone really knows what a producer does. But I'm basically like the glue guy.
Every project requires something different. You know, I do a show called Jury Duty that's on Amazon. That's a show that I originated. I'm intricately involved in the edit, intricately involved in the production, casting, all aspects of that. White Lotus is really... Mike's the genius of White Lotus, and I'm there to support him. I'm very involved in every aspect of White Lotus when Mike needs me.
So for the last three months, we've been in post. I give notes on the edit. I push on HBO, whether it's about music, release date, marketing materials, promotion. I'm involved in all aspects of that and And really, you know, I'm there every day with Mike. We start on it together from the origination to scouting, to casting, to locations, to hiring of crew. And I'm there every day on set.
So I kind of just, you know, I'm there to solve issues and prevent issues from coming up.
When I think about The White Lotus, there seems to be a theme or a certain... I don't know. Someone told me that it's about... It's the different seven deadly sins. What are the creative anchors you try to hold on to? If you ended up doing a season eight, what do you think would be the common themes that would still be static through season eight that are present in one, two, and three?
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Chapter 5: How does the casting process work for The White Lotus?
I've been in business 21, 22 years now, and I think for me, what I've seen is there was an expansion and now a contraction. Um, and I think the biggest difference between, you know, 2025 and 2023, I would say as a producer, 2023, you could go out with a project and maybe it's, you know, 50, 50, it sells and you're going to put a lot of energy and time into that. And 10% chance it gets made.
It's a flyer. And I'm going to kind of take 10 projects out. Six of them might be flyers like that. Those projects aren't selling right now. So I'm really trying to kind of refocus my energy and refocus my time on projects I feel 80% about, 90% about, that when I take it out into the marketplace, they're going to sell. And, you know, that contraction feels like just a natural contraction.
There was possibly too many shows being made, and those shows weren't working. And I think there was just a, you know, it made it harder for shows to break out. So for me as a producer, you kind of just got to ride the wave. I think to be a producer, you have to be an optimist. I think every producer would tell you that.
So I wake up every morning going, today's the day that my project's going to get green light. I'm going to come up with a great idea that, you know, this show or movie is going to be a hit. And I approach every day in that way. And so... Because I take that approach, I don't really change what I'm doing for better or worse.
I look for ideas and I look for writers or actors that I'm passionate about and themes I'm passionate about. And that's how I approach every project. I don't really kind of view the marketplace in a broader sense and kind of try to... game the system. I just try to find things that I'm excited about.
And that's really, you know, to take it back to White Lotus, that's really all White Lotus was, was Mike telling stories that he was passionate about, casting people he was excited about, and not trying to think about how do I make a hit or how do I, you know, speak to a broader audience.
I want to put forward two theses or observations as an outsider who like, I like to think I understand economics and I'm fascinated with the industry and you respond to each of them. The first thesis is that what Japan did to Detroit, kind of Netflix is doing to Los Angeles. And that is, I read that of the $18 billion content budget that Netflix spends annually
on content that for the first time, more than half of it is being spent overseas. And at the same time, I also read the production's down 40% in LA. Is the globalization of the media industry that's checking capital kind of out of America, specifically out of Los Angeles, is it as evident as I think it is?
Maybe, you know, it's a great question. again, for as long as I've been in the business, production in LA and California has been an issue. I think it's, you know, not having the numbers in front of me and maybe those numbers, production in Los Angeles has decreased in the last, you know, 15, 20 years, which probably has. But I think it's always been an issue. And...
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Chapter 6: What are the current trends in Hollywood according to David Bernad?
But you can feel the energy in a negotiation when on the other side, if your show is working or not. And so without knowing any of my jury duty numbers, I know the show worked by the nature of the negotiation and how bad they wanted that show for a second season. That's my opinion, and I know that might seem ignorant, but again, having information has never really benefited me.
In White Lotus 2, in our renegotiation season to season, we don't have the full scope of that show's numbers, but I know it's done well by the nature of HBO's desire and demand for us to do another season.
We'll be right back.
Hey, this is Peter Kafka, the host of Channels, a show about what happens when tech smashes into media. And this week I'm talking about Twitch. Not the thing my eye does when I don't get enough sleep, but the pioneering live streaming service that Amazon bought for a billion dollars back in 2014. Twitch is still a big deal in live streaming, but so are lots of other places.
So how is Twitch CEO Dan Clancy going to deal with that competition? Why exactly do I want to watch people talk live on the Internet anyway? I asked Dan Clancy all about that and more on this week's channels from the Vox Media Podcast Network.
Take yourself back 22 years, and you had the knowledge of knowing where this business is gonna be today, or if someone's starting out in the business, Any kind of macro thoughts on their career that this part of the business is going to be the easiest place to find employment? This is the medium, the size of the screen. Any advice to a 22-year-old Dave starting in this business?
What do you see as the major themes and how does someone foot their efforts to trying to take advantage of those themes in the industry?
Yeah, I mean, that's a great question. And I do a lot of coffees and Zooms with people. And my advice to anyone starting in the business would be, if there's anything else on earth you can do, I would go do that. So your general advice is don't? Yeah, that would be my advice. Because I think this is a... And you talk a lot about this, I know. And it's an incredibly difficult business.
And I think making a living in this business has gotten harder and harder for whatever reason. And I think that... I, this is something that I wake up every day and I live it. I breathe it. It's something I love and I feel incredibly fortunate to be doing. And I can't imagine doing anything else on earth.
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Chapter 7: Is Netflix's globalization affecting Hollywood?
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You know, I make little cameos in most of the stuff I do, and I pop up in White Lotus, and every time I'm on set and I'm in a scene and I don't have any dialogue, usually it's kind of, you know, I'm doing some sort of action, I'm like, thank fucking God, I don't want to be an actor, because it is a hard, hard job to kind of, and also to give yourself to a camera and be that vulnerable.
But, you know, it also speaks to how talented directors are to be able to
manage that you know and you know everyone has an ego right and so you're basically going up to someone and going that was kind of shitty can you do it a different way or your instincts are off do it my way and how do you deliver that in a way that doesn't offend them and you know get what you want out of the actor but yeah it's a it's tough it's all it's a it's a tough business and and again it speaks to you know great performances are are not easy to come by
So just as we wrap up here, a lot of young men listen to the show and they hear someone successful like you and they think, I'd like to be that guy. Can you talk a little bit about that? growing up who are really the big influences in your life, people or kind of situations that sort of change your life?
Yeah, I mean, this is something that I, you know, I really love about your work and what you talk about and something that really resonates with me. And, you know, my parents are both Hungarian immigrants and my grandparents are all Holocaust survivors. And, you know, my father is someone who, you know, he didn't speak the language when he immigrated from Budapest.
He ended up in Montreal and eventually in America. But, He's someone, my grandfather made sure my father, you know, really learned what work ethic is and an appreciation for work. And that's something my father instilled in me. And he was probably my first mentor, but I had a English teacher and a basketball coach named Mike Hibbs who changed my life and introduced me to storytelling.
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