The Prof G Pod with Scott Galloway
Raging Moderates: The Possibility of a Third Trump Term (feat. Kellyanne Conway)
Tue, 01 Apr 2025
Jessica is joined by former Trump advisor Kellyanne Conway to break down the latest chaos inside the administration. They dive into the fallout from Signalgate—and the possible repercussions of Trump’s Liberation Day tariff threats. Plus, the Supreme Court is set to weigh in on Trump’s most aggressive immigration policies. And finally, looking ahead: What does a post-Trump world look like for both parties, and how seriously should we take the possibility of a third Trump term? Follow Jessica Tarlov, @JessicaTarlov. Follow Prof G, @profgalloway. Follow Kellyanne, @KellyannePolls. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
Chapter 1: Who is Kellyanne Conway and why is she on the show?
Welcome to Raging Moderates. I'm Jessica Tarlow. Scott's off today, but I've got a guest who knows the inner workings of Trump's world better than most. She's been in the room, she's seen how the machine operates, and she's here to help us make sense of what's happening inside the current administration. Kellyanne Conway joins us today. Welcome to the show, Kellyanne. Thank you, Jess.
Nice to be with you. It's nice to be with you off campus a bit. I feel like, you know, we're always at Fox and you have like three minutes to speak and now we have an hour.
Let's dig in.
Let's dig in. In today's episode of Raging Moderates, we're going to be talking about the biggest scandal to hit the Trump administration yet, Trump's immigration policies heading to the Supreme Court, and what a post-Trump world looks like for both Republicans and Democrats. So last week, the biggest political story was, by far and away, Signalgate, and the fallout is still unfolding.
Chapter 2: What is Signalgate and why is it significant?
Chapter 3: How are Trump's immigration policies affecting the Supreme Court?
Let's dig in. In today's episode of Raging Moderates, we're going to be talking about the biggest scandal to hit the Trump administration yet, Trump's immigration policies heading to the Supreme Court, and what a post-Trump world looks like for both Republicans and Democrats. So last week, the biggest political story was, by far and away, Signalgate, and the fallout is still unfolding.
The Atlantic's editor-in-chief, Jeffrey Goldberg, somehow got added to a Signal group chat where top Trump administration officials were We're talking about airstrikes on the Houthis in Yemen. The White House tried to push back, but once The Atlantic published the full transcript, things only got messier.
Now Congress is looking into it, Republicans are in damage control mode, and national security concerns are piling up. Kellyanne, what's your kind of top line feeling about so-called Signalgate? What did you think when you saw the story? Do you feel any differently than you did on day one?
Well, clearly it was a mistake and a mistake has been admitted and rectified. Nobody was purposely inviting a reporter, let alone Jeffrey Goldberg of The Atlantic, to this group chat.
where the Secretary of Defense predominantly was giving an update to the national security team and others like the chief of staff and deputy chief of staff for policy and the like on what was about to happen in Yemen. And when I hear he was invited, he wasn't invited. I don't have Jeffrey Goldberg in my contacts.
I can't add him to anything on my phone, certainly for many of the reasons that President Trump has mentioned. actually articulated himself. I think this is one thing that a big bone that the media will continue to gnaw on, though, because it seems like the very first time they can truly sink their teeth into the administration, and President Trump said as much.
Jessica, people tried it with the January 6th pardons. They tried it with the doge cuts. They're trying it by torching and burning down the dealerships of innocent Tesla dealers and sellers and owners.
They're trying everything they can, but I would really echo what Governor Gavin Newsom said over the weekend, if not previously, which is that the Democrats are suffering a big image and messaging problem now. It's not about another messenger, it's about a message. And I think if the entire party is really centered on how can we
screw Trump and the American president, and by extension, America herself, then this signal event that was revealed one week ago today, Jessica, will be probably the best and highest hope. But it's a distraction away from the volume and velocity with which President Trump and his administration are operating. If you look at the CBS YouGov poll over the weekend, you look at other polling,
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Chapter 4: What are the implications of a possible third Trump term?
People are fairly—they're giving Donald Trump the space and the grace this time to build an economy, to stop the illegal border crossings, to stop these wars that he inherited in Ukraine and the Middle East, and to get energy production back online.
I don't know why we had a war on fossil fuels and fracking and why President Biden paused the LNG permits, but all these things that President Trump is doing that Americans do like cannot be subsumed by— something that was accidental, unintentional, and a mistake.
Yeah, so there was a lot in there, and I want to try to pick most of it apart, but there were a ton of specifics in the conversation, most coming from Secretary Hegseth, some coming from National Security Advisor Mike Waltz, that are not just casual conversation. People have said this is obviously classified. If someone of a lower rank had done something like this...
they would be out of a job and maybe going before a military tribunal. The American public knows how serious this is. You have did some polling on it. Fifty three percent say that this is a serious problem. And conversely, for instance, Trump's classified documents case was less as a percentage, less serious. Clinton's emails, as well as Biden's classified documents.
So the American public understands that this is very serious and is not something to brush over. And I don't think the administration is going to be able to, even if you want to paint this as something of a media obsession.
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Chapter 5: How is the media reacting to Trump's administration?
Well, certainly it's a media obsession. 53% of Americans are saying, based on the way a particular poll question was asked in a particular poll, say this is serious. But 99% of the mainstream media says it is. So there's a disconnect there, as usual. But look, I'm glad you admitted that the Donald Trump documents case in Mar-a-Lago was thin. That's all obviously been litigated.
I disagree completely that President Biden housing his classified documents next to an old Corvette in a garage that his son also had access to and his myriad problems. I do think that's serious. And Frankly, the country rejected Hillary Clinton for many reasons, but in part because they didn't trust her.
They shot, if you look at the Washington Post polling right before the election in 2016, Jessica, people didn't think she was honest or trustworthy, ABC News, Washington Post poll and others. And part of it was because of the way she had handled. her emails, the way she had handled, I don't know, dozens or a dozen or so phones and bleach bidding and all of that.
So I think this is important just because, thank God, no damage was done. And thank God that the mission was successful. And people are about production and delivery. I think the Democrats only want to be about process when they think it benefits them. And I know Trump derangement syndrome is real. I know it starts at stage five. I know there's no vaccine cure or therapeutic for it, but
In this case, it was a successful mission and people will focus on that. They will wonder why the facts that under Biden's watch, there were 174 attacks on our Navy warships, that these terrorists and these pirates were disrupting regular routes so that you could not have safe and efficient passage in these routes. And now this is all being turned around because you actually have bold leadership.
in the White House and in the national defense team. So people should look at the success of the mission. I believe they will. And again, when mistakes are made, I think the most important thing to do in life and in politics and anywhere else in the national security team is to admit the mistake, figure out how it happened, promise that it will never happen again.
If mistakes were made in Afghanistan, then I've yet to hear President Biden or Vice President Harris say it, the most energy that President Biden seemed to exert after 13 service members were senselessly killed because he went against the advice of most of his national security team and his generals and withdrew out of Afghanistan. on a dime almost immediately.
The most energy he exerted was looking at his watch while the grief-stricken families were just looking for a little bit of grace and recognition from the commander-in-chief. That is something Democrats have been very critical of, leaving Bagram Air Force Base in the wingspan of China, leaving the Taliban in charge of Afghanistan.
I mean, really, Jessica, what's the point that we had a female vice president who wanted to be the first female president of the United States in Kamala Harris if the women in Afghanistan have fewer rights and are less free now? of the policy prescriptions and the decisions that she and her boss made.
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Chapter 6: What role does Signal play in the current administration's communication?
Merrick Garland, Jack Smith, and all the law firms now paying some of the ultimate prices and frankly capitulating immediately because of their involvement. But look, I take national security very seriously. I was not a national security official, but I had a TSSI when I was in the White House. And I will tell you, I don't have a signal on my phone. I don't have Jeffrey Goldberg in my contacts.
Why not? Well, I would note that in the first Trump administration, the first time I even learned about Signal, one of the people who worked there who liked to call everybody else a leaker seemed to live on Signal. So I get it.
But in this case, I do take very seriously the sworn testimony almost a week ago, Jessica, of John Ratcliffe, formerly of ODNI, now our CIA director, and he swore under oath
to the Senate last week that one of the first things that he was told, which you know the rest of the team would have been told when he became the CIA director two months ago, is that Signal was installed on his computer and that it was an acceptable way of communicating. If that's the CIA director talking, I'm going to give that the legitimacy and credence that it deserves.
So yes, I think if you're going to have investigations, the legislative branch wanted to look at what the executive branch did is probably the way this is going to go. But again, and I like the fact that President Trump, as is his practice, very unique and typical for him, was forward-facing about this, saying, I don't know what happened. I don't use Signal. I wasn't part of that.
But we're going to take a look at it. I've asked Mike Waltz to take a look at it. He's a good man. Then, you know, he admitted it came from his team or him himself, put the group together, accidentally added someone and the like.
You've had two national security officials on two different days last week testify under oath, Tulsi Gabbard, ODNI, and, of course, the aforementioned CIA Director John Ratcliffe.
Yeah, well, Tulsi had to correct herself from the day before. She had a bit of a brain fog. And, yeah, Signal was installed, and it was Biden-era guidance, but you were supposed to use it for ordinary text messaging. You were not supposed to use it for classified information.
But you touched on something that is always, as an outsider who's very interested on the inside of what goes on in Trump world, this tension between how Trump feels about the media and especially someone like Jeffrey Goldberg, who he has been... mad at, to say the least, for several years now because of the suckers and losers story. Well, it's just a lie. Okay.
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Chapter 7: How are social media platforms interacting with political figures?
They'd want to know about all this money flowing to the Biden family from Ukraine, from China, this guy, Hunter Biden. I mean, Joe Biden may have no energy, but Hunter Biden had no energy experience, and he's on the border of Burisma, and so on and so forth, and he's talking to the big guy.
So that was all relevant, but it was shut down by Jack Dorsey on Twitter, and so was the New York Post, and then 51 intelligence officers, et cetera. This makes people feel that there's not just two-tiered system of justice, Jessica, but a two-tiered system of... media allowances, like the First Amendment, somehow applies less to people because they like or vote for Donald Trump.
And that's just not fair. And I think there's been a big comeuppance that way.
I totally agree with you. Listen, our colleagues feel similarly to you. I talk about this on an almost daily basis. I would note with the laptop story that was down for 24 hours and Donald Trump was the one in office when this was going on and coordinated with social media companies. for quote unquote censorship, certainly about COVID, just the same as any Democrat would have.
But, you know, I tend to think the election was not going to get swayed on Hunter Biden's dick pics. And that was what was the main concern of his father, which were on that laptop. But listen. What's done is done. And frankly, I think Democrats would have been better off if Trump had won in 2020 versus won this time.
And I know a lot of people in his orbit who feel the same way that he had those four years to prepare for this new administration and is doing things obviously very differently and in some ways getting higher marks. His approval is up. His approval on immigration, that's the only area that he is above water. And I want to get into talking about that. But
You know, the American public seems to be broadly behind him in that. So I always appreciate how quickly you can get to the points that you want to make as someone who tries to do this for a living. I'm always like, I should be more like Kellyanne. I could get there faster. But...
Before we get off of Signalgate, do you feel that they are going to stop using this app for these kinds of conversations, that there will be a lesson learned? Because I do think in general that the American public is forgiving. And they want to hear that there has been responsibility taken and that there are going to be changes made.
And I know that, I mean, it was public reporting, so you could say that it was inaccurate, but that apparently Susie Wiles and Marco Rubio, J.D. Vance, wanted Trump to get rid of Mike Waltz, that Pete Hegseth is... safe in all of this, even though he was sharing the specifics in enormous detail that everyone who has served has said couldn't be anything but classified.
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Chapter 8: What are the consequences of classified information leaks?
I do think it's a lot bigger than that. And my foundational question is about it just being fully investigated in the same way that the Hillary Clinton server was or the classified documents cases on either side with Biden and Trump, though that was cut prematurely short by his win. And to your points about the Biden administration and the withdrawal from Afghanistan, they lost, right?
So using this example or trying to go back in time and using it as a comp, Biden-Harris lost, or Harris-Walls, which was the extension of Biden-Harris. And the American public did largely feel the same way as you. But Biden's approval rating dropped after the Afghanistan withdrawal, and it never recovered. At some points, it went even lower, I think the lowest in history.
Especially among independents. I think Biden really never recaptured any kind of footing with independents. Let me just say, I'm not concerned about the political consequences at all. And so the fact that Biden-Harris lost because they had not one but two— uninspiring, not particularly compelling or great speakers as their candidates, as their nominees.
The electoral consequences, that election was, gosh, 40 months, 39 months after about late August 2021, early November 2024. So over three years, Jessica, after the Afghanistan withdrawal. And let's talk about electoral consequences or political fallout. Because the immediate fallout in Afghanistan was what I said.
We left billions of dollars worth of technology and equipment at Bagram Air Force Base, which I remember the late, God rest his soul, Senator Joe Lieberman had said at the time, like, gee, this is something I helped negotiate too. Lots of Democrats, lots of Republicans felt Bagram was the right place. You know, this was the right place to negotiate an airstrip.
And, you know, leaving Afghanistan in the hands of the Taliban, I mean, it just washed away all the work Yeah. The whole, the mission was successful.
That I feel like every American should be able to applaud and appreciate, no matter how they feel about President Trump, his national security team, or the use of signal and the accidental inclusion of any reporter, by the way, let alone a hostile one.
Yeah, well, I do have to. Scott isn't here to say it for himself, but someone who gets pulled over for a DUI has on average done it 80 times. So that is the larger issue here. I am thrilled that the mission was successful. You know, fist pump, American flag, fire emoji. All of the things.
I just think that we need to be more careful about this and, you know, really get to the bottom of how often this is going on, especially with a group that big. That doesn't usually involve Jeffrey Goldberg. But we have more to talk about. So let's take a quick break. Stay with us.
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