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Chapter 1: What insights sparked the conversation about performance enhancers?
I stumbled around a little bit in talking about performance enhancers and that Bill story, but I really did want to explore why,
what I would have to present the public with, a public that in sports has become more informed and more skeptical, I would guess, than any sports fans before it because of how often your heroes have used the pharmacy to get advantages and because of how unsurprised we are now that competitive people would be super competitive about competition and look for any advantage.
The Bills, who came very close to winning the championship last year, had a team the last three or four years that if a few bounces go a different way, they could be a championship team. Or if the Chiefs don't exist, they might be a championship team. They signed two free agents because they need help because last offseason, Chris Cody was right.
Chapter 2: How have the Bills' off-season decisions been influenced by PED suspensions?
The Jets were a betting favorite, according to DraftKings, over the Bills when last season began. And it's because of Aaron Rodgers, and it was because the Bills had lost some people. So in free agency, they grab two players, and then they learn one of them, who they would not have signed for a year if they had known this, is going to be out for six games.
The other one, they do know that he's going to be out for six games, but they sign him to a three-year deal anyway. And my question to the group is, unless that's Josh Allen, do any of you care? Like, can I make it any other bill from the last 10 years and none of you actually care about whether someone is performance enhancing or not performance enhancing?
But if I make it Josh Allen, then you'll be like, because it's not the crime, it's the fame.
Chris has a good one that people would notice. Damar Hamlin? I think everybody would understand. Huh, that's how it happened.
Do you understand my larger point, and what do you deal with?
Dan, I feel like I don't know enough about the kinds of PEDs that these players are using, but it's sort of my understanding that when you stop using them, they stop doing anything for you, right?
I would assume. Did it stick to Von Miller? Because he got pinched for it several years ago. Did that stigma stick around?
I'm just saying you've got to be super famous and it has nothing to do with the actual cheating.
I mean, Vaughn Miller is way more famous than Larry Ogunjobi.
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Chapter 3: Why do some PED scandals gain more attention than others?
That's not true. Yes, people would certainly care well more if it was a starting quarterback, especially one with the physical gifts of Josh Allen.
I think it also depends on what it is, though, and how long they're using it and that sort of stuff. And I don't know if I know enough about it to really make a judgment call.
Generally, people don't care about NFL PED suspensions. I mean, they care for what it does to betting lines and fantasy football and baseball. I guess the timing of when these things happen also matter. I feel like if you're a star, though, like if Jamar Chase got caught, that would be a new story. It would, but for the weeks, it doesn't taint his legacy in ways that it does in baseball.
It's just the sport, right? In football, no one really seems to care about anything football players do in any aspect of anything.
I'm with you. I think there's just a general understanding. Yeah, that sport's crazier than most. I'm so not surprised that Larry Ogunjobi, who has been in the league forever, has played with so many teams, has found a way to stick through this very difficult position in an alpha male sport by turning to something. It's just not surprising. In fact...
My base assumption is that all these guys have to do something, especially the ones that have stayed in the league for so long, to either recoup from injury or try to avoid it.
I'm curious because we talked about this last week in the NBA. And basically, people would care if it's LeBron. If it's not LeBron, people largely don't really care what's going on in the NBA anymore. In baseball...
they cared a lot at the beginning and now you also kind of forget the only reason you know is because the length of the suspension is so long that it's so obvious like oh 81 games like you miss half a season so like you know but otherwise you kind of forget oh this person got suspended like three seasons ago i don't even remember that football you never really care because like people are out so frequently in the nfl anyways with injury that you don't really know why someone's not playing like oh pd's like oh and they're back next year oh and like pro bowler like
Oh, can we get them now for a cheaper price? Like, okay, like, yeah, let's sign up for that. I'm actually curious how the NHL views this, since this is why we started today with ECLAD. Like, do the NHL fans care about PEDs?
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Chapter 4: What cultural factors surround PED use in different sports?
Those guys in the late 90s, I know that they soared with impunity and made a lot of money because of the drugs that they were turning to, but man, that's looking a little unfair. Yeah. In retrospect. Rafael Palmeiro.
It's so good now. Ridiculous. It is high comedy now, looking back on it. A congressional hearing where Sammy Sosa's pretending he suddenly doesn't understand or speak English.
That was a waste of money, if we're going to be honest. It's a crazy waste of money. That taxpayer money was crazy. Roy, I think you're a hockey purist just because I think you're the only person that likes hockey for a long time. How do you feel about the whole steroid stuff in hockey? Do you care about this?
No, I mean, it hasn't really happened that often. I mean, the last time somebody got pinched for PED abuse was Nate Smith like six or seven years ago when he was in Vegas. So all Panthers.
He was also a Florida Panther. Really? I mean, it's awfully convenient for someone that roots for the Panthers to say, I don't really think about it. It's bothered me, and I'm deducing that it certainly helped him because he's looked like a different player this season.
Well, the thing is, he's an unrestricted free agent at the end of the season, so I don't know how that's going to go into his negotiations with Bill Zito.
Well, also, I'm like, is there, Roy, have they said like what kind of steroids or PEDs he was using? Because there's a difference, right?
Like there's a difference between some of the things that athletes were getting pinched for in the 90s versus things like a stimulant or something that's on the list of performance enhancing drugs that you're not supposed to use that could help you work out longer. I genuinely don't know enough about it to really make the judgment call, but I know that there are some slight differences.
What Yannick Sinner got in trouble for that has been a long fought over battle in tennis over the last two years could be a completely different thing than what Barry Bonds was doing.
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Chapter 5: What are the implications of PED use on athletes' long-term health?
Trust me when I tell you that all of the science being used here is to push the boundaries beyond where they can get caught, not beyond where the boundaries are.
They are trying to avoid the police as much as they are trying to heal their bodies because, of course, competitive people who are spending hundreds of thousands of dollars on trainers and medicine of their own money to repair their bodies and their economies are going to go to all lengths to out-compete the next guy doing it.
I think the crazy thing about where we are in performance enhancing drugs, unfortunately, is now when you see someone gets pinched for performance enhancing drugs, I think the first thought most people have is like, oh, so you're just dumb. Like, because, like, everyone's doing it and they know exactly how to get around it.
And, like, oh, we have someone that's dumb and couldn't figure out how to get around it. Or is just, like, reckless and didn't do what they needed to do to properly pass the test. Which, like, is a crazy thing. But, like, as sports fans, you just kind of have accepted that everyone's just trying to get around the system and they've figured out how to beat it.
And then when someone does, you're like, oh. Hmm. Why can't you figure out how to get around it?
I think that is where we are, though, on how superhuman and unnatural some of the things are right now at the height of science.
Of course, people would be ultra competitive on that and would find a place where we've arrived there, Billy, just like you are, where we're all looking at it and saying, yeah, they're all probably doing something a lot like something that's very close to the line on how it is that they stay maximum competitive.
I think the reasons why this one resonated so much is, as Roy mentioned, you don't see this often in this sport. And his his explanation was, I took something I shouldn't have that I wasn't aware that I wasn't completely aware I shouldn't have to get back. Well, this is a player that was so impacted by all of his injuries.
I'm sure many people in our audience that kind of tangentially follow the sport know that generally when we invoke Aaron Eckblad's name months ago, it was about frustration. This guy is making bad mistakes. He can't keep up. He's a shell of himself. And this year, all that went away.
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Chapter 6: How does the Shador Sanders draft discussion relate to competitive pressures in sports?
It's what we're watching. Shador Sanders goes into the draft and I don't know what's real or true about he's dropping. That his arrogance has put off executives and that Shador Sanders may, and I saw this recently, fall right out of the first round, which kind of floored me because there aren't very many good quarterbacks in this draft and the bottom end of this first round is not very strong.
What's the recent on Shador Sanders? Because I want to talk about confidence at that position, and I want to talk about belief. And I'm curious what's happening that might be considered real around Shador Sanders.
Well, I know that Lewis Riddick came out and said what's happening to Shador Sanders is unfair because people are slandering his name. And a lot of this is people reading tea leaves, hearing whispers, and talk show hosts running with this thing. But quite honestly, I think what's happening mostly is he has a very weak arm.
If he were in the league right now and he were a starter in the league, I've read people surmise that he'd be number 30, 31, possibly 32 in terms of arm strength. And maybe he shouldn't have been looked at if this were maybe next year's quarterback class. He wouldn't be discussed as a first round draft pick.
Maybe he's being discussed as a first round draft pick because it's a hugely important position. And this year, outside of Cam Ward, there really isn't consensus on who can be a franchise changing guy.
Isn't this what you want if you're Sanders? Okay, I'm going to a better team now. He's projecting to go to the Steelers, I'm seeing here, at 21. I'm just saying, I get it. You want to be a top overall pick. But the lower you get in the first round, you get better teams.
I think he can spin it into, this is a better spot for me. But no, it's definitely not what he wanted. Because I think before his bowl game, he came out with cleats that had... The Giants logo and the Raiders logo, while the draft order was not yet locked in, these were teams that were talked about as potentially having the number one pick. It's not going the way that he wanted.
If you're a team that wants him, this is what you want to happen because you want him to fall to you because he just kind of starts plummeting. But no, Shador is not hoping that he falls out of the first round by any means just because he might end up on a better team. He's costing himself money. I'm just saying, does he say, okay, maybe this is not what I wanted, but this could work out for me?
Well, also the better teams all have quarterbacks, right? So he wants to go to a situation where he's going to play or there's a playing plan in place for him. He doesn't want to be a backup on the Chiefs.
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