The Charlie Kirk Show
If You Found Out God Was Real, Would You Change Your Behavior? ft. Barak Lurie
Thu, 22 May 2025
Charlie sat down for an in depth interview with his friend Barak Lurie, to dicuss how atheism steals, kills, and destroys. They walk through the proof that God exists, the ways different religions have affected western society, why the country needs God, and so much more. Watch every episode ad-free on members.charliekirk.com! Get new merch at charliekirkstore.com!Support the show: http://www.charliekirk.com/supportSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Chapter 1: What are the implications of atheism?
Hey everybody, Charlie Kirk here live from the Bitcoin.com studio. What are your thoughts about atheism? A terrific conversation with Barack Lurie about the real world implications of atheism in a way we've never talked about it before on this program. I encourage you guys to listen to this and also check out Barack's book, Atheism Steals and Atheism Kills.
Get involved with Turning Point USA at tpusa.com. That is tpusa.com. Become a member today at members.charliekirk.com. That is members.charliekirk.com. And also check out the charliekirkstore.com. That is charliekirkstore.com for all the merch that we wear on this program, charliekirkstore.com. Buckle up, everybody. Here we go. Charlie, what you've done is incredible here.
Maybe Charlie Kirk is on the college campus.
I want you to know we are lucky to have Charlie Kirk. Charlie Kirk's running the White House, folks. I want to thank Charlie. He's an incredible guy. His spirit, his love of this country. He's done an amazing job building one of the most powerful youth organizations ever created, Turning Point USA.
We will not embrace the ideas that have destroyed countries, destroyed lives, and we are going to fight for freedom on campuses across the country. That's why we are here. Noble Gold Investments is the official gold sponsor of The Charlie Kirk Show, a company that specializes in gold IRAs and physical delivery of precious metals.
Learn how you could protect your wealth with Noble Gold Investments at noblegoldinvestments.com. That is noblegoldinvestments.com. It's where I buy all of my gold. Go to noblegoldinvestments.com. Okay, everybody, very special guest here today about a topic near and dear to my heart and to all of you, about atheism. Atheism, I think, is dying in the West. We'll talk about that.
Joining us now is a friend of mine, Barack Lurie. Barack, great to see you. Thanks for having me. Not to be confused with Barack Obama. I'm sure you get that a lot. All the time.
And I do not like it.
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Chapter 2: What is Barak Lurie's Atheism Kills series about?
I'm sure you don't. No, you're much wiser, and you believe in God. I do. I don't know if Barack Obama does or not. But okay, so you're the author of a very interesting and important series of books. Tell us about it.
Yeah, it's called the Atheism Kills series. There are three volumes. The first one came out in 2017 called the Atheism Kills. The next one was in 2019, 2020, Atheism Destroys. And the last one that is about to be wrapped up, Atheism Steals. And what I do there is I try to show the dangers and the consequences of a world without God. And it's not very pretty.
It's going to be a terrifying world if we were to actually adopt atheism as a governing structure. And it's not hypothetical for me to say that. We have ample examples of that, both in the world of fascism and in communism. And they were so overwhelming. The evidence was so overwhelming that this is what happens when you operate a government without God.
It's a little bit like that old egg commercial. I don't know if you remember it, Charlie, but you put these eggs in a skillet and this is your brain, this is your brain on drugs. Well, This Is Your World on Atheism is not a pretty one. I show in these books that atheism kills on an epic level, beyond belief. Hundreds of millions of people have died in the 20th century and are continuing to do so.
that has been evidenced by Hitler's reign in fascism, generally speaking. Hitler was not a Christian, by the way. And I do want to dive into that later. It's one that I get quite often. Oh, it's an easy response. Communism, of course, was by definition atheist. You had to be an atheist in order to actually adopt communism. It was the engine of communism.
Alexander Solzhenitsyn, the great Soviet dissident, said, that atheism was the central pivot of communism. It could not exist without atheism. Naturally, they wanted to get rid of religion altogether because religion was the ultimate threat to the government.
They wanted you to completely be subservient to the government systems, and therefore what you have to do is just abandon religion altogether. And that's what they largely successfully did in the Soviet Union and to some extent in China. but these are really horrific regimes, and we need to understand that.
Aside from that, which is bad enough, it also destroys everything else that we value, things like truth and logic and science, the concept of family, the concept of relationships, the concept of free speech, for example. All these things derive because of our belief in God and our values in that. Even our sense of beauty, our sense of storytelling, of music and art,
None of these things would exist without God. And one of the things that I always love to ask people to do is to simply ask this question. Why are things the way they are? Why do we love music? And if I were to ask you, Charlie, what music you like, I'm going to get an answer. Classical. Yeah, you might like classical. Somebody might like hip-hop. Somebody might like rock and roll.
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Chapter 3: How does atheism affect society and morality?
What about that?
He showed me that I was shallow in my thinking as an atheist, that really there is no free will, there is no sense of consciousness without God. And I believed in free will.
But I'm told nothing good ever comes out of Russia. It's a terrible place. I'm told that it's just a gas station with nuclear weapons.
Right. There you go. I'm kidding.
I'm giving you a hard time. Russian literature can be very dark, but very telling.
It's dark. And I always say, you know, Dostoevsky is fantastic because, you know, people think that he's very brooding and dark.
I haven't spent much time with him. I know the concepts, obviously.
But he's actually, it's very uplifting, these books, surprisingly so. Crime and Punishment, fantastic book, very uplifting in the end. Same with Karamazov. But I read these books and I decided that I was really a believer. But here was the problem. In college, you end up kind of milling about with a lot of philosophical issues. You meet some religious people.
I knew these four guys who were evangelical Christians, and we'd always banter about the existence of God. And I said there was no God, and they said there was and such. But we were very respectful of each other. I have to pat myself on the back about that. And then when I discovered that there was a God, and I remember going, I decided that I was going to go to tell them that I believed in God.
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Chapter 4: What proof do we have of God's existence?
Likewise. I just, I wanted to, would you say that you came in contact with God or the idea of God or the concept? Because coming into a relationship with God is usually Christian language. That's why I... Oh, I see.
I see. No, in Judaism we have a relationship with God, absolutely. Rabbis will often ask you, how is your relationship with God? Tell me about that depth of the relationship. And it's no different in Christianity. We're very solid. So I came to that realization. So I started off first, you know, understand that there must be a creator. And I recommend this.
If you want to convince your non-believing friends, take it methodically. Start off with, is there a creator? Forget about the God of the Old Testament, God of the New Testament.
The Levitical laws.
Yeah, Levitical laws. Forget about all that. Leave it aside. Is there a creator with a capital C? And you'll ultimately have to come to the conclusion that, of course, there is. It's obvious. The math demands it. The probabilities demand it. Frankly, it's silly not to believe that there's a creator. Okay. So there's three different things that I love to talk about.
The chances of the universe coming into fruition by itself. randomly that is, and that is something on the order of 1 out of 10 to the 64th or 128th. It's so obscene that I can't imagine the amount of zeros that are involved.
Likewise, then, that the Earth would be formed, that the universe would form in the way it has formed, meaning with the gaseous and solidifying of the planets and the orbits around them, And it doesn't have to be. I mean, it could have been that this universe would be entirely gas and nothing more. But instead, we have the laws of physics and the laws of chemistry and so on.
So these are things that, again, the probabilities of that would be absurd. And now you have to multiply those two fractions in order to make it together. So the chances of the universe beginning in the first place and creating the universe as it did.
Then you have to go, there are many other steps in between, but the next one I'd like to talk about is the chances of life forming by itself, randomly. And that indeed also is 1 out of 10 to the 125th, I think it was, some obscene number. And again, you have to multiply that new fraction to the previous fractions.
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Chapter 5: How do free will and accountability relate to belief in God?
That's right. It's tough enough for an atheist to explain how life was triggered by itself, but then to also say that there's free will in that process through evolution or otherwise, it's impossible.
Would you agree free will is fundamental to Judaism?
Yes. Yes. I agree. I think that's right.
And I would say Christianity as well. And I know Christians that don't believe in free will, but that's not the base of this.
Yeah, I don't understand that. If there's no free will, then, you know, I always say, if somebody's going to argue that with me, well, if I punch you in the face right now, are you going to get upset? And they'll say, of course I am. Well, why would you? I couldn't help myself. So we inherently recognize free will. And that was the thing that opened the door to God for me in the first place.
Once I realized that there was such a thing as free will, I knew that I was... How did you come to that conclusion? I sensed it. I know that I free will.
Was it a faith claim? Because some people say free will is a faith, meaning you can't prove it, but you must believe you have it.
I think that's fair to say. I don't think... I think that not only do I my own agent, but I'm also accountable for my actions. If you don't believe in free will, then you don't believe you have agency and therefore that you don't have accountability for your actions.
And that's what's so tempting, Charlie, about atheism is that that's its major gift to the atheist is that you don't have to be accountable. Right? It's an addiction. I say non-accountability is the greatest addiction that there is. All other addictions flow from that. So the temptation to say, simply dismiss anything, any responsibility.
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Chapter 6: What are the statistical arguments against atheism?
It's frightening to see the way that atheists will logic themselves into positions. And that's why we need a universal morality. It's a language that we should all be able to speak. But they will steal it from us. They will claim it for themselves.
I could talk to you for hours about this, and I want to. Let me... Can you crisply describe atheism? If you had to give... When you encounter it, because... I ask this for a reason, because now we're going to get into some of the heavier stuff of the 20th century. Sure. What is atheism, and therefore, how could you ascribe that to Hitler and Stalin and all of that? So let's do...
To me, atheism and the way I perceived it, the way I ran my life with it, is that there are no gods or God, and specifically the Judeo-Christian God does not exist. And we are best to not live by the teachings of Judeo-Christianity because it has held us back. That is the way I define atheism.
So atheism is somewhat of a new phenomenon, though. In the ancient world, were there atheists?
Very few. I mean, if there were, they didn't write about it.
Give me the history of atheism, and then we'll get into the last 150 years.
Atheism principally did not exist until the 1880s or so as a practical reality.
Because of a lot of scientific innovations.
Innovations and a lot of philosophies from the German universities. It's always the Germans. Right, Blake? It's always the Germans. Right. Uh, you know, so when it was in the Simpsons, I said, anybody who speaks German can't be that bad. So anyway, the point is that they created this, they made it more noble and the idea somehow that it was majestic.
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Chapter 7: How do atheists define morality without God?
Fly away, my dear butterfly. And that's the way they thought of themselves. They are getting rid of the shackles of God and Christianity and Judaism. Thank you very much, but we don't need you anymore. Yep. Only to discover that it's more like being in an airplane at 30,000 feet and deciding you don't need a pilot, an engine, or for that matter, wings anymore. That's what it's like.
So we need to understand that without God, horrific things happen. It's the very building block of civilization. But wasn't Hitler Christian? He was not Christian. Come on, he had an iron cross or something. Oh, yeah, for sure. Oh, and the belt buckles. Never forget the belt buckles. Okay, so this is fascinating. I get this all the time. Yeah, oh, yeah.
So in Mein Kampf, he made a reference to Jesus. However, that was it. You would think that if he was a Christian and if Nazism and fascism operated on the fuel of Christianity, you would think that maybe once in a while they would raise a cross in their parades. They didn't. They raised something I consider a crooked cross, a twisted cross into a swastika.
Which was actually an Indian symbol.
Yeah, exactly. It was like an Indian fertility symbol or something. I don't quite know that, quite the connection between the two.
If you go to India, they have swastikas all over the place.
Yeah, it's like inverted, right? Correct, yeah. Yeah. So he didn't do that. Secondly, he wrote extensively about his contempt of Christianity. Contempt. Contempt. So he said that not only was Christianity a feeble religion, he actually used those words, he had contempt for Judaism, of course, to try to slaughter everyone. He was more than happy to get rid of Christianity as well.
That was his next goal. You really believe so? Oh, yeah, very much so. He was already getting rid of a lot of Christians in the camps. It wasn't just Jews.
Jehovah's Witnesses were targeted. Yes. It was gypsies, homosexuals, Jews, and Jehovah's Witnesses of all places. People forget that.
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