The Phoenix Suns traded their 2031 first round pick to the Utah Jazz for three future first rounders. Dave DuFour and Zena Keita discuss the Suns trade, what it means for Jimmy Butler, and the season Nikola Jokic is having. Then, the Athletic’s Marcus Thompson joins the show to discuss the idea of Rivals Week, how Cam Johnson can swing the championship, and why the Thunder have title pressure this season.Host: Dave DuFourWith: Zena Keita & Marcus ThompsonExecutive Producer: Andrew SchlechtAudio Producer: Grayson MoodySubmit your questions to The Athletic NBA Daily mailbag: https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/5939460/2024/11/25/nba-podcast-mailbag-athletic-daily/ Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
Chapter 1: What trade did the Suns make for Jimmy Butler?
And this is, Zena, this is the first step in what it appears to be is the push to get Jimmy Butler. They have moved their 2031 first-round pick unprotected. to the Utah Jazz for three future firsts. So they're going to get the 25, 27, 29 pick. That's the worst between the Cleveland Cavaliers, the Minnesota Timberwolves, and the Utah Jazz.
So they're going to get the worst one of those for three years. But really, Zena, this is about being able to put together a more appealing trade package for Jimmy Butler.
But the thing is, even if you have these picks, it's a matter of who wants these picks. I mean, they're not necessarily something that's incredibly desirable on the market. And then Jimmy Butler, another team's going to have to be involved in order for Jimmy Butler to find their way to Phoenix. And that's what you got to find is that third team that's willing to move some assets.
What are they going to get back in order for Jimmy Butler to find his way to Phoenix? I... I think that Phoenix is doing too much. In my opinion, look in the West. You've already got a blueprint settled out for you. Look at what OKC did. Get rid of your stars. Rebuild. Go through the draft.
Look at where OKC is now with the talent they have amassed and the arsenal they have amassed by getting rid of their stars. I really think that Matt Ishbia, bite the bullet on Bradley Beal. OK, that trade was not ideal, especially it's not panned out the way you want it to happen. But it doesn't mean it's over. You can start again.
They now have six first round picks, three of which they're going to try and move for Butler. I don't think so. Move KD, see what you can get for him. Move Booker, see what you can get for him. Stick with Nurkic, stick with Beal, and then see what you can do with these picks that you have in your back pocket.
The Phoenix Suns go for the tank. I mean, you know, here's the thing, though. They have a new owner. And the new owner, he wanted to make a splash. They go out. They get Kevin Durant. They make the Beal trade. They've doubled down on this. I do believe they're going to now triple down on this. As we heard, Jimmy Butler tripled down on his double down trade request.
I think that this Jimmy Butler thing is going to happen. And you mentioned it's going to take two teams, maybe three. Yeah, maybe four teams, because I actually think what you're going to wind up with. And we, you know, we were listening to some of the news to come out of Phoenix and John Gambadaro, who covers the Suns.
He actually said that that one of the teams that's on the list that Bradley Beal would waive that no trade clause for is the Milwaukee Bucks. And so now all of a sudden, you know, you've got another second apron team, so they're going to have to move salary. It's going to probably be a multi-step process. But either way, it does appear as if this is getting close.
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Chapter 2: How is Nikola Jokic performing this season?
Warriors. That's a good one. That's a natural one. But Marcus, like we get Denver and we get Philadelphia. OK, and that is obviously built to be Jokic versus Embiid. But Embiid just never plays, especially when it's in Denver. So what are they trying to do? And why can't we just have the natural, you know, give us Lakers Celtics. Give me Nick Celtics. Give me, you know, like Warriors Kings.
Like lean into it for the week.
Chapter 3: What are the implications of the Suns' trade for the Thunder?
Yeah, I think it's tough in this. Like to me, this is where the NBA is trying to have it both ways. Right. Like they want parody. They want they want to like. put teams in position where they can't really like go for it in essence, because they want the lower teams to be able to go for it. But it kind of steals a little bit of the thunder, uh, from this thing.
Uh, you know, no pun included there.
That pun was very intentional. Uh, So you end up with these, I don't know, these kind of weird teams that are just in these tough situations. And especially at this point in the season where some teams are just ready to call this thing a season, right? They're just ready to cash in the chips and be like, yeah, what are we doing? Let's tank. It's just, to me, rivalry week sucks.
is less about geography and much more about pitting like the actual potentials against each other. Like that, that's what you want to see. Cause I don't care what you say, right. Dallas, Minnesota. Yeah. You know, uh, I mean, I'm going way back, but there was no greater rivalry in 2016 in the West than Warriors Thunder. And that's not nothing geographic, right?
It's about teams that face off in the playoffs. But once teams start losing their resources and got to start making decisions, then it kind of takes away a bit of the luster of it. So I understand what they're trying to do, but you end up leaning on...
borders more than the actual rivalry at play here because like who's indiana's rivalry actually i mean they said so you know who knows there you go right but the thing is if you look at the actual lineups and these are all rivalry games that are going to happen on national television so right Not necessarily just all the games across the NBA, but particularly on these national stages.
They split them up between what you're talking about, this geographical kind of setups. Like you definitely see the Lakers go against the Warriors. You see the Warriors go against Kings. But then you have some storyline ones that are team based. So, you know, the Bucks and the Heat are going to play. We know that from the 2020 Eastern Conference semifinals.
You know that from the first round of 2023. That makes sense from a team perspective. But then there's also these one-on-one matchups. And that's where I think it gets a little bit iffy. For example, last night you had Denver Jokic versus Embiid. This is going to be interesting, the way the NBA set up. John Morant versus Zion Williamson. And I'm like, is this a rivalry? It's South Carolina.
It's South Carolina.
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Chapter 4: Why is Rivalry Week considered underwhelming?
Like, it literally fits everywhere. He really might sway the title. Like, if the right team gets him, he could sway the championship. Like, he's that good. Now, again, he's not Shea Gildress Alexander. Like, we're not saying that. But, man, when it's your time, boy, Cam, if you listening, you better be out there in these streets. You better get all the purple Skittles when you pull up.
You better get everything. You better get the flight for the family, all that, because you the one.
Yeah. He's a, he's a talent that can stretch the floor with size and they could also, and defend. I was just going to say his defense against the Knicks last night, he was keeping Jalen Brunson out the paint. It was impressive. But okay. So you got Cam Johnson, Marcus, you and I have talked about this. Like I actually thought the Warriors were going to trade for Cam Johnson.
Thank you.
kind of close the season out. You know what I mean? But they're getting too good with the D'Angelo Russell ad and now Cam Johnson. And when Cam Thomas gets back from his injury, I mean, they're actually really good. What's it going to take for Brooklyn to be like, all right, we're doing too much. Let's simmer down.
I mean, it'll probably take a nice little five-game win streak, right? Yeah. When D'Angelo Russell goes back to L.A. and he's got the game winning shot and that ball's in the air, I remember thinking Sean Marks is like, no. You know, D'Lo wanted to hit that price.
Cam Johnson's price because of his, again, just how he fits and how many people could use him, especially in the West, because the West is like elite. They got this little elite group, but then a bunch of teams that's like kind of mid, but could be great if they get the right piece and all of them could use Cam Johnson. So his value is high. So I think his price is pretty high. Like I,
they'd be crazy not to get at least a first-round pick for him.
He's going to get a better package than Miami gets for Jimmy Butler, in my opinion. I think his package is it.
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Chapter 5: What makes a legitimate NBA rivalry?
Bulls are wild. Zach Levine is so interesting, mostly because I have that experience of the Warriors getting Andrew Wiggins. Right. I remember... Andrew Wiggins' reputation with the Warriors traded for him. Like, he left Minnesota, I don't want to say, like, in disgrace because that's, like, exaggerating it, but he wasn't, like, a guy who everybody was like, ooh, Andrew Wiggins, right?
It was like, oh, number one pick, didn't really pan out. And he just reinvented himself. He became a champion. You put him with the right people and it like it hit. To me, I feel like Zach Levine is in that liminal space between is he going to continue to be like the inefficient chucker who doesn't lead to winning? Or is he just really the right situation away?
Chapter 6: How do geographical rivalries differ from team-based rivalries?
From being a difference maker, like and part of me actually believes if he's healthy, like he can be when you watch him play. And I don't like the way the Bulls play at all. By the way, Bulls are like my secret team. I watch every game like like.
Really? You don't like the way they play?
They play chaotic games. They just throw the ball at the rim.
Yes, chaotic is a great way to put it.
They just throw the ball at the rim. They have no interest. It's like, I don't need Patrick Williams coming down, chucking shots with 20 seconds left on the clock. I just don't need it. Think about this with the Bulls. I just wrote this in The Athletic. Zach Levine is shooting 45% from three. And he's not taking the most threes on his team.
Kobe White has taken 50 more threes and he's shooting 36%. I knew it was going to be Kobe. What are you doing? Are you serious? I was looking this up because I was comparing the three-point errors. Do you know in 2015-16 when the Warriors led the league in three-point shooting, Steph and Klay took 60% of the threes. This wasn't a free-for-all. Everybody wasn't just chucking.
It was, let's run some sense. Let's get the ball to our shooters. Patrick Williams is out here. Let me add, Patrick Williams is a decent shooter. It's not bad, but Zach Levine shooting 45%. How about we get his threes up? How about that? How about he gets four threes? This is crazy. I love Io.
Io should be taking... If Io was on the Warriors and he took a three, Draymond would be yelling at him because, hey, bruh, Get the ball up and set a screen because Steph is coming. We got to get Levine to the Warriors. That's what irritates me about the Bulls. It's just like, this dude is literally killing.
He's averaging 30 at night and they just come down like, hey, it's like 24-hour fitness hoop. I don't understand. It's frustrating.
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