The Athletic NBA Daily
Rockets & Warriors deliver thriller | Trae Young rolls dice in New York
Thu, 12 Dec 2024
The NBA Cup semifinals are set. The Atlanta Hawks and Houston Rockets will join the Thunder and Bucks in Las Vegas. Dave DuFour and Es Baraheni are joined by the Athletic’s James Edwards III and Marcus Thompson II to recap the Hawks and Rockets victories, what plagued the Knicks and Warriors, and where these teams are going from here. Then, Es and Dave issue a few early season retractions in the mailbag segment.Host: Dave DuFourWith: Es Baraheni, James Edwards, Marcus ThompsonExecutive Producer: Andrew SchlechtAudio Producer: Grayson MoodySubmit your questions to The Athletic NBA Daily mailbag: https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/5939460/2024/11/25/nba-podcast-mailbag-athletic-daily/ Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
Chapter 1: What happened in the Atlanta Hawks vs. New York Knicks game?
Good morning and welcome to the NBA Daily for December 12th, 2024. Coming up, two more teams punch their ticket to Vegas. So we got two guests to talk about it. We got James Edwards, we got Marcus Thompson postgame, and then S and I, we're going to dig into some questions. Good morning, everybody.
Good morning, S. Good morning, James Edwards, live from MSG, where the Atlanta Hawks did the thing they're built to do. They won an NBA Cup game over the Knicks. Trey Young goes to MSG, ever the villain. James, what was it like in the building for the NBA Cup at MSG?
Yeah, I thought it was a little subdued to start. It's been raining here in New York, so it's a little slow to trickle in. I think people were a little dreary. But as the game went on, it picked up. It wasn't the most beautiful half of basketball to start. There was a lot of turnovers, a lot of missed shots, a lot of missed free throws.
Chapter 2: What went wrong for the New York Knicks?
But as things kind of picked up in the third, and it looked like Atlanta was coming back, there was a little bit more uneasiness from Knicks fans. There was a little bit more... vulgarities in their language when Trey Young was messing up. So it was definitely a grower, but it ended up being an interesting game. I wouldn't say a good game, but an interesting game.
And I'm sure we'll talk about that.
Yeah. What happened in that second half? And I, I mean to say that simply because I think like that third quarter by the, by New York, just completely, it was, it was terrible, right? It was 25, six run and, Yeah, it just it seemed like from that point, it was just the Hawks game to to kind of dominate and control what happened in the third that changed the game that way.
Chapter 3: How did the Atlanta Hawks dominate in the second half?
Yeah, I think there were a few things. I think, one, New York did generate some good looks. They just missed a lot of open shots. And I think there was some of the missed shots bleeding into defense. They didn't look in sync defensively. They looked a bit sluggish. They weren't really getting back fast in transition. They were getting beat off the dribble.
They also looked like a team that was tired. Their starters play a lot of minutes, right?
Yeah, that Raptors game all Monday, man.
Yeah, exactly. And they've... How do I say this? They're very much a team that like goes ebbs and flows with its energy. And Atlanta is a team that usually pretty consistently has energy. You saw with them having 22 offensive rebounds, the Knicks just really look stuck in mud. And it looked like a team that's tired and a team that looked like that was down on itself because shots weren't falling.
And ultimately it was a bad combination because Atlanta started to make shots after missing so many in the first half, but the Knicks made it easy for them to make shots too.
Yeah, at a certain point, they've got to figure out how to get stops and score at the same time, James. It seems like they can get a couple stops here and there, but the offense dries up. And then we know that this offense is super high octane at its best. So what what do they do differently? I mean, you know, is there something in their approach that you've seen?
I mean, you know, you've been around them, you know, now for a few months. I mean, where do they go from here to improve?
Yeah, no, I think that's a great question. I think for me, it's like, when does we need to be consistent, turn into like, this is who you are? And I think we're at a point with that with New York. We're at 25 games in. They haven't really had any major injuries to their main guys. I mean, obviously, Mitchell Robinson has been out, but he's been out all year.
But they still just look like a team that at times doesn't know each other. Yeah. it's really hard to put a finger on it because, like you said, it's one of the best offenses. It is the best offense in basketball. When they're rolling, they pass the ball well. It's just defensively, they just don't have that same synergy. And I still think it starts at the point of attack.
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Chapter 4: What is the identity of the New York Knicks this season?
They really struggle against lead playmakers and ball handlers. They get blown by too easily on the baseline. And Cat's not a great rim protector. And I think they get deflated by... being able to put up these percentages, and then you look up and they're only up six, and they're only up seven. And I think it impacts their defense, and I think it takes a lot out of them, man.
They're playing a lot of minutes. There's eight-man rotation on most nights, it feels like, sometimes nine. they have to be able to put teams away early. And the fact that the Atlanta shot as poorly as they did in this first half, and they only were down six at halftime or seven at halftime, if you're New York, it's like, what's going on? And you have to muster up some more energy.
I just think this is a team that was gassed, and they just need to figure it out, whether that's at somebody or... or change up who they have guarding the lead ball handler. Mikel Bridges has had moments, but he's struggled at times, and they need to figure that out for sure.
Yeah, it seems like there's two things you need to have as a team, recipe-wise, to beat the Knicks, right? It's a ball handler who can attack the Brunson cat, pick and roll, carve it up. We saw that tonight with Trey Young, right? It's also length and activity defensively, switching.
You know, that stat's been out about how well they do offensively versus length and activity and the switch scheme versus drop coverage. We also saw that tonight. So... In terms of identity, at what point does it just become like this is who they are on both ends of the floor, you know?
It feels like we're there. 25 games is a large sample size. They've been able to put together good performances against really good teams. A lot of their losses have come against good teams. They've lost to some mediocre teams. They've gone toe-to-toe with some bad teams. It's who they are. They very rarely blow teams out despite how offensively efficient they are.
And I think a large part of that is because they just do not defend at the level that they need to. And I also still think that their shot I hate saying shot diet, but it's been a long day and I have a head cold. But their shot diet is still weird. I still think they take too many twos and give up too many threes. And I think it shows almost every other night.
Yeah. Hey, look, you write about the Knicks for us, but you know the league as well as anybody. I want to talk about the Hawks. You know, they won this game. And I know it's weird, but it's the NBA Daily Curse.
It's Dave's favorite team, by the way.
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Chapter 5: What makes the Atlanta Hawks a promising team?
Oklahoma city is going to win the tournament.
Okay. Milwaukee.
Oh, I see. Okay. Milwaukee meets him in the finals.
All right. Well, we're going to find out James, go and read James Edwards at the athletic. He is one of the best sports writers in America. Maybe the world. I don't know. I don't repeat other countries, but you're the man.
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, we can say that. Sure. I mean, I just don't know.
I don't read Japanese sports writing. I'm sure it's excellent. They probably have their own James Edwards guys. Stick around after the break. We got Marcus Thompson to talk about rockets. Warriors. Well, my prediction that the Warriors were going to run through the NBA Cup and add to the Steph Curry legacy. It ended last night. The Rockets and the Warriors.
You know, this must be a 2024 NBA basketball game that is like 140 to 135. And and. Guys, it turned into a 90s playoff game. Got Marcus Thompson here with me and S to talk about the game. We just watched this thing, and Marcus, I'm going to start with you. This was a rock fight. The offenses just look inept at times, but we're going to start at the end of the game.
What's up with this loose ball foul that they called on Jonathan Kuminga? Of all the times to call that loose ball foul. It's never called.
It's so weak. Like, come on, man. It's so weak. Look, the Warriors didn't lose because of that. They had four turnovers in their last five positions. But Billy Kennedy, what are you doing? Like, play ball. We've never seen a foul to decide a game in a long game.
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Chapter 6: How did the Warriors and Rockets game unfold?
Yeah, but what we saw against Houston is these dudes aren't sure with the ball against ball pressure. Yeah. Like Kaminga, you got to get him on the right matchup. And he's got like Tari Eason on him. And Tari Eason is hungry with an O, right? That dude is hungry. Warriors.
And you can see, right?
And you put Kaminga 30 feet from the basket. Like, that's tough. They don't have dudes who can start 30 feet from the basket, mano-a-mano, with a really good defender, and I'm going to get to the rim. Like, they got Steph, and they got other guys who can do it sometimes, but sometimes they can't. Kaminga isn't to the point where he can do it reliably every time. It's matchup-based.
And Houston's really tough. They love getting you in the perimeter.
You know who can do that? Jimmy Butler. Oh, yeah.
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Chapter 7: What were the controversial calls in the Warriors game?
And he can take one, three a game. You know who else can do that? Dennis Schroeder.
Yeah, and that's a guy that definitely they ought to look at. Look, Marcus, again, not to pigeonhole you. Let's talk Rockets, man. Look, they won the game. They're the young, hungry team. You know, they got Dylan Brooks firing them up. But they're kind of missing the guy down the stretch, you know, Shingun. There's the weird substitution stuff with him.
Jalen Green, not quite there yet, although made a great play, diving for the basketball to kind of give him a chance to win. What do you think about the Rockets?
Yeah, I do think... It's a little bit like, how long do you wait for Jalen Green to become that guy? Like, that's tough. And he'll learn a lot of lessons. They'll be in a lot of games. They're a good team. He'll get to play, like, real top-level basketball now. You'll get to see it. It ain't like the last couple years, right? It's like, all right, now you're in the mix. Well, what you got, Jalen?
And I do think while you have to develop that, they're kind of in a position where they need to develop it fast. So they have so many wings, so many guys that you can move. I wouldn't be surprised if they said, let's go now because they're good. And the West is kind of – West feels gettable to me. Like the West feels gettable.
So you think they would be a win now trade?
I could see them saying – And look, they know Jalen Green behind the scenes better than me, right? So, like, there are some things you can see where it's like, is he going to be there? Now, talent-wise, skill-wise, yeah. Give them some real time. But do they really have time to wait? How many games they would like? They should have lost this game. They're going. Think about this.
In the crunch time, you're saying, Shang-Goon, go get a bucket on Draymond Green. That's insane. That's your offense. The Warriors are taking that every time down, every time down. So it's like, you gotta, you gotta have a better option that I'm surprised that, uh, uh, You know, you get Dillard Brooks. I can't blank it on his name. Tim. Shooter. Jabari?
Jabari Smith. You said shooter, and I'm like, huh?
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Chapter 8: What are the implications for the Hawks facing the Bucks?
Not to bring up shot diet for a second time on the show, but like how often does a possession end in Fred Van Vliet, who's not that tall with a tall guy standing two feet in front of him and he's pulling up the three. And sometimes it's an air ball and sometimes it goes in.
I do think this is emblematic of how the league is, despite what that game just told us. Sure. The league is so spread out. You just can't have three guys on the court who can't create a shot. You just can't. Right. You got to have multiple guys who can create shots. against good defense.
Like, that's the new... Remember how it used to be, like, you got to have three all-stars to win a championship. Now, like, pretty much every... You could probably get away with one, two most. But the best teams will have four to five guys who say, hey, it's me and you. I have the space. I'm taking you. And Houston, Houston got guys who, like, they all believe they can, but they actually can't.
Like, they're all certain they got it, but they ain't got it. Like, that's not what they are. And the Warriors are the opposite. They have guys who are like, I don't think I can do this. Steph, where are you?
Bojewski. You know what I mean? That guy, he thinks he can do it. Yeah, he does. He can. I don't know. All right. Well, Marcus, thank you for coming to hang out after the game. We're going to see you in Vegas. Wait, can we get a Rockets Thunder prediction? That's what I was about to say. Okay, there you go.
Do you think the Rockets can ride this stolen victory that we're going to call and beat the Thunder? No.
The Thunder want this thing. No. They can't score enough. No, no, no, no, no, no. Thunder roll out of bed. It's a one 15. I know it's going to be fine.
All right. Well guys, stick around after the break. S and I are going to issue some Mia culpas a quarter of the way through the season.
it is question time on the show question news i mean you know this is like the the straggling bits fun stuff of the podcast every day uh we put out the call the other day for questions oso manchego on blue sky asked us a pretty good question that was timely um and yeah any quarter season mea culpas worth discussing for us. We don't get a lot wrong. Well, okay, we're not going to do that.
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