The Cleveland Cavaliers and Oklahoma City Thunder delivered a game of the year candidate as the two best teams in the NBA met for the first time. Dave DuFour, Es Baraheni, and Andrew Schlecht discuss Cleveland’s gameplan, what went wrong for the Thunder, and who has the clearest path to the Finals. Then, Es and Dave take a look at how Giannis manhandled Victor Wembanyama, the Bucks lineup change, and Paolo Banchero’s upcoming return.Host: Dave DuFourWith: Es Baraheni & Andrew SchlechtExecutive Producer: Andrew SchlechtAudio Producer: Grayson MoodySubmit your questions to The Athletic NBA Daily mailbag: https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/5939460/2024/11/25/nba-podcast-mailbag-athletic-daily/ Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
Chapter 1: What happened in the Cavs vs. Thunder game?
Good morning and welcome to the NBA Daily for January 9th, 2025. Coming up, the Cavs ended the Oklahoma City Thunders 15 game winning streak. So we got Andrew Schleck to talk about it. Wemby and Giannis based off. So we're going to talk about that, of course. And Paolo might be coming back for Orlando. Good morning, everybody. Good morning, guys. How's it going?
A little bit of we had like a Super Bowl last.
Oh, my God. Game of the year. Game of the year.
Chapter 2: Why was this game considered the game of the year?
Yes. You know, I got to say, Andrew Schlecht, Espera Henning, as I just jump right in because I'm too excited. The game had a very heavyweight feel to it, and it was nice. I loved that the officials let these guys play. Andrew, what about you? Just just your reaction to how the game felt like before you even talk about the game itself.
Yeah, for all the hand-wringing that's happened this season about style of play, whether the NBA is a good product or not, this is a great advertisement for the league to show all the general public because this was a great basketball game. Even though it was a high-scoring game, I thought the defense was superb from both teams. I thought the shot-making was just a little bit better.
I thought it was physical. I thought there weren't too many threes. The possession battle was incredible, which is something that I always look for in every Thunder game. Both teams shot 90 shots. I mean, it was just a battle of two very good basketball teams that play the right way, that play great defense. This is it.
If you love basketball, you will have loved this game between the Thunder and Cavs.
And as you know, we were talking a little bit about about this game after the game. And, you know, the Cavs win 129, 122. It's the most points that the Thunder have given up this year. We were we were talking about just like it worked out that Cleveland actually won this game. And, you know, shout out to Joe Varden. He called this their last test.
They passed it with an A. I think it worked out great for them. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, the other thing about this, and by the way, I want to say I apologize to the Cleveland Cavaliers because I have been pushing the, hey, we'll see what happens. We'll see what the regular season looks like. We'll see how they're supposed to look against a really good team.
And to your point, this test really showed what they can look against a championship contender. I think they passed. And I think the way that they passed was really admirable because they were versatile. The way that they went at OKC with the two big lineups of Jared Allen and Evan Mobley, the way that Max Struce popped off in this game and was just incredible from three-point land.
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Chapter 3: How did the Cavs prepare to face the Thunder?
You had Darius Garland punching in. Donovan Mitchell didn't have a great game, but they still ended up doing well I think all of that goes to show you that the Cavs are the real deal. So Cleveland Cavaliers fans, apologies. You guys are the real deal. You guys are contenders. Officially, officially, officially, officially contenders in my books.
So we were wondering how they were going to guard Shea. And I don't know, Andrew. How did you feel about the defenses that they were throwing out there against Oklahoma City? Evan Mobley got some time on Shea. They went into the zone, and that really kind of bothered the Thunder. But do you feel like, again, it's 129-122, and it's funny to start with defense.
But this is a game that was high scoring, but they had excellent defense at both ends. And I just think that that's a point I want to start with. So I don't know. What did you think about the Cavs guarding the Thunder?
Yeah, I think that the Cavs probably have like top three, if not the best shell defense in the NBA. I think that they're a lot different than the way the OKC defends, especially whenever they zone up. The Thunder had a lot of problems, especially in the third and early fourth with that zone defense. And they had trouble cracking it. And you have to give them a lot of credit.
They just play together. And that really defines the Cavs, is that they play together on both ends. But defensively, it just really works. And a lot of it is about Jared Allen and Evan Mobley. Those guys are so difficult, especially the mobility. The mobility of Mobley. The mobility of Mobley is really a thing that changes... Everything for them. He's been incredible on both ends for them.
He really had the game ceiling bucket for them as well. He's doing it all. And the fact that he can guard Shea, at least in spots, I think is extremely helpful for them. You know, Shea still had 31 in this game. He had a game high 31 points. He still made his mark. There's no question. But yeah, I mean, the Cavs did a great job on the Thunder. And so like Thunder put up 122.
They scored enough points to win this game. It's funny because I think you walk away from this game. I think both teams feel pretty good. Yeah. Because this was just like two teams just slugging it out. It came down to just a couple possessions to me. It was one possession where the Cavs got four offensive rebounds and the Thunder just couldn't buy one. And...
It was the challenge from Kenny Atkinson. And I think this whole thing is just such a nod to Kenny and what a smart basketball mind he is. Because he's taken this team that hasn't really changed and has just reorganized them and put everybody in the right spots. And now they're a title contender. And it goes to show how important coaching is on both ends of the court.
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Chapter 4: What are the implications of this game for the Cavs' season?
If I had told you guys that Darius Garland and Donovan Mitchell were going to combine for 29 points in this game, would you have thought that the Thunder would win? No, I would have thought OKC did their job.
Yeah, I would have thought OKC. Yeah, absolutely. They play together. Yeah, they do play together. They are connected. And I think, Andrew, you know, the thing you mentioned about Mobley, he's been the guy who has been able to raise the Cavs ceiling. Like it all relies on Mobley being the guy who can take that next step for them.
And we're seeing that this season, not only on the defensive end, but also his aggression offensively when OKC was putting two to the ball. against Garland and Mitchell, they were so comfortable dumping it in to Mobley, dumping it into Allen. And it was a three on four, four on three situation. And those guys are such good passers that they can just make tons of reads out of that.
And that's why this Cavs offense is number one. Like they just, there's so much versatility to what they can do on the offensive end. And it's because those guys are taking leaps on that end too. I mean, the big-to-big passing.
Chapter 5: How did Giannis perform against Wemby?
And I'm not just talking about the Evan Mobley air ball that Jared Allen caught. But, I mean, the big-to-big passing is such a huge advantage. I mean, we've seen that in the last few years with teams getting bigger. And, I mean, to that point, Andrew, this was a game where Oklahoma City, like, I'm reminded – They still are not healthy. No Alex Caruso.
And then the big guy that they're missing in the middle is Chet Holmgren. And, you know, we were talking a little bit earlier today, and I asked you, like, hey, is he off the crutches yet? Like, what's going on? Because he's not going to be ready for the game in eight days where they have the rematch, right? But do you feel like Chet is going to be ready come, you know, playoff time?
Like, especially like second round, you know, once we get into the sort of championship deciding rounds?
Yeah, he's going to play in the regular season. Okay. Barring any significant setbacks. Yeah, I mean, my... I think he's going to play in a big chunk of games before the season ends. I think he's going to play in 20 ish games before the season ends.
So basically post all-star game, you know, you'll see.
Yeah. Post all-star break. I think he's going to be close. I think that he's already going through some drills now. And I think that they're going to be extra careful with him, but I think that he will play in a good chunk of games. And this was a game that the thunder of one, They're 19-2 with Isaiah Hartenstein in the lineup. They have not really missed Chet all that much. Right.
Because they've lost two games during that span of time. And tonight was a night where you could look at the team and say, yes, they absolutely missed Chet Holmgren in this game. And I'm so curious to see what it looks like because all of last season, it was Chet as the anchor of the defense. Yeah. And for the Thunder, what does it look like when Hartenstein is the anchor of the defense?
And you basically get to turn Chet into like super Serge Ibaka for them. Right. Which I think will be, it's going to be interesting for them because there were those moments where the rim protection wasn't quite there. Isaiah Hartenstein had five fouls down the stretch of that game. And you just wonder, could he have been a little bit more aggressive if he wasn't in foul trouble?
And if you have Chet there, maybe he's not in foul trouble. Jared Allen was, to me, the best player.
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Chapter 6: What are the expectations for Chet Holmgren's return?
The Pacers have been better, and they got them on a back-to-back, so we're going to see how that goes. But 11 straight wins. They ended the Thunder's 15-game winning streak. And the Cavs are the first team to start 32-4 or better since the 15-16 Warriors, who were 34-2. And of the six previous teams to win at least 32 of their first 36 games, four of those won the title.
And I want to ask you this question. Wow. Because... We know it's about getting to the finals. If you can get to the finals, especially with the way that the league is set up and you got the right matchup, any of these contenders can win. Absolutely. Who has a better chance of making the finals, the Cavs or the Thunder?
Man, that is such a loaded question. It's so incredible to have to answer that truthfully. Okay, so if I'm going about this, I think the best competition for both of those teams is the Boston Celtics, right? And because the Boston Celtics are in the same conference as the Cleveland Cavaliers, my answer is the Oklahoma City Thunder.
Because I just think there isn't a team in the West that can really challenge OKC to the degree at which Boston can challenge Cleveland. And I'm very excited to see Cleveland and Boston match up again this season. Want to see how that looks once again. We saw their early season matchup. I think I lean OKC. Andrew, do you concur?
Yeah, and I honestly think that the New York Knicks may even be next in line as well. The West is obviously very good, and there are a lot of good teams out West. But I think when we're talking about top-tier teams, I mean, do you guys have the Knicks... And next in line, who do you guys have? Because to me, it is the Thunder, Cleveland, Boston, whatever order you want is is probably not wrong.
You know, it doesn't it's beauty in the eye of the beholder there. But then who's next to me? It's probably New York. I don't know what you guys think.
Yeah. I mean, Dallas can get healthy. Can, can Dallas, if Dallas can get, you know, Kyrie and Luca healthy, which is huge. I mean, obviously they're, they're dealing with serious injuries, but I think that's the other team that I have a question mark on, but yes, right now I would say the Knicks.
Yeah. Yeah. I just don't believe in any of the other teams. At all. And I haven't seen enough Kawhi Leonard. If Kawhi Leonard is the best player in the Western Conference like he was when he got injured this past time, all right, it's a different conversation. But I just haven't seen enough from anyone to feel like OKC is going to have a challenge.
But we're talking about inner circle here, right? Like you have to reach a certain threshold to be involved in this conversation. And I think – It's OKC. It's Cleveland. It's Boston. That's the that's it. That's the conversation right there. Yes. New York is probably peeking through the door. But yeah, that's that's where I kind of land on that.
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