The Athletic NBA Daily
Bucks & Thunder square up for the NBA Cup | Shai or Giannis for MVP?
Tue, 17 Dec 2024
The Oklahoma City Thunder and Milwaukee Bucks will face off in the NBA Cup Championship game. Dave DuFour, Es Baraheni, and Eric Nehm discuss the Bucks recent success, their approach to the Cup, and Giannis Antetokounmpo’s MVP caliber season to this point. Then, Dave, Zena Keita, and Andrew Schlecht flip to the Thunder’s side of the matchup, their claim to the “best defense ever”, and Shai Gilgeous-Alexander’s MVP presence.Host: Dave DuFourWith: Zena Keita, Es Baraheni, Eric Nehm, Andrew SchlechtExecutive Producer: Andrew SchlechtAudio Producer: Grayson MoodySubmit your questions to The Athletic NBA Daily mailbag: https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/5939460/2024/11/25/nba-podcast-mailbag-athletic-daily/ Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
Chapter 1: What is the focus of the NBA Cup Championship preview?
Good morning and welcome to the NBA Daily for December 17th, 2024. Coming up, it's NBA Cup Championship Day, so we're doing a big preview show. We got Eric Name on to talk about the Bucs and his big piece on Giannis Antetokounmpo and his MVP push. And then in the B Block, we've got Andrew Select to talk about the Thunder and what's happening with that team after the Cup. Good morning, everybody.
Good morning, S. Good morning, Eric. Although, full disclosure, this is afternoon the day before because it's how podcasting works. I've got Vegas voice, guys. I haven't been out particularly late. It's just the air is very dry. It's been cold for the first time. S, I'm used to sweating when I'm walking around outside. I forgot a coat the other day.
big mistake huge mistake eric um how is the weather here treating you compared to milwaukee uh it was five degrees when i left milwaukee so um it's it's nice it's it's very nice here um but also i i've lived groundhog day enough days i somehow just keep waking up in vegas and i'm i'm not gonna leave for another couple days so i would love to be done with that
Yeah, well, look, man, the cup means more, and the Bucs, they look like they want to win it. I mean, the game the other night, it started out, Giannis had so much energy, so much. I mean, he really was almost too fired up. I was worried he was going to run out of gas, and we saw that a little bit in the third quarter when the Hawks made that run. But looking ahead to the game tonight,
It's a freebie. You know, this is a championship game, but it doesn't count toward either team's record. And for the Bucs, it's a measuring stick game. The Oklahoma City Thunder have been the best team in the West all year long. They look like the finals favorite from the West.
And potentially, you know, if you were going to name two or three teams that might beat the Celtics, they're on that list. So if you're the Bucs, I'm assuming, you know, this game matters probably a great deal to your own internal perspective.
Yeah, it was funny. I had asked Doc Rivers earlier today, just like, do you feel like you guys need a signature win? And I know that's kind of like a made-up idea, but it's interesting because they've won 12-15, they're playing great basketball, they're top 10 on both sides of the floor during that time, and... they just haven't had one of those wins.
Like they, they haven't been able to, and that's probably unfair to the Houston Rockets who are a great team. The Bucks beat the Houston Rockets and did that. They beat the Hawks as well. But if we're talking like signature win, like they've lost to the Celtics, they've lost to the Cavs. Like the moments that they could have had those, they haven't.
And I think that's one of the things that's kind of exciting about this for them is that, you know, this is an unscheduled game that they had no idea. And they, Maybe they can do it. And if they can do it, then they go to Cleveland on Friday. And maybe all of a sudden it is the Bucs are back contender edition. Like not just like, oh, they're back over 500. Like they are real contenders.
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Chapter 2: How is Giannis performing this season?
Chapter 3: What makes the Thunder's defense historically significant?
Got that little turnaround fadeaway now, too, that he hit against the Hawks the other night, right?
Yep. And there's just all of these things that when you build the wall, the wall is always going to be there. But for him, it's finding ways to, to me, play more in control. This is the, I put it in the story, but this is the lowest his offensive foul rate has been ever. It's way down because the Bucs are putting him at the elbow a little bit more. The Bucs are posting him up.
up a little bit more. It's, it's a bunch of ways. And he kind of joked about, he was like, well, you know, the wall, like I'm behind the wall now, like they're putting me in spots where like, I'm already behind the wall. You can't build the wall. If I catch on the elbow and only have one dribble, or you can't build a wall. If I'm posting up, like,
those that it's just kind of this progression i think when when you look at what he's doing obviously it's it's insane leading the league at 32.7 points per game he's thrown in a block and a half per game uh you know 11 rebounds six assists those are numbers no one's ever done before um just like they were numbers no one's ever done before last year uh but somehow he he keeps improving and i think that's always been his his greatest trait is that
year over year, he improves. He's obsessive about it. He does what he can. And I think that that's what he did this year with the mid range jumper.
When we talk like three weeks ago, it was about can the Bucks weather the storm, right? And they've done that with with Giannis. But I think a part of it is also like his leadership and what they've been able to do in the locker room to be able to kind of stay even keeled. I know you went into that in the piece as well. What what have you seen from Giannis or what have you kind of
looked at to, hey, his evolution as a leader for this Bucs team.
Yeah, I mean, I was kind of taken aback in the story. I start with a scene in Cleveland, right? The Bucs are 1-5 at that moment. Giannis is about to sit out that game that night. They're going to still go down to 2-8. It didn't get better in that moment. And yet, at the end of our conversation, he just looks at me and he smiles and he goes, don't worry yet, okay? And it's like... are you sure?
I think I shouldn't be worried. Like stuff is not going well. Like this is not going well. And the way he explained it when I, when I asked him about it before we came to Vegas, like, okay, how did you have so much confidence in that moment when it was not going well? And he was just like, you know, I have this supreme belief in myself.
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Chapter 4: What key matchups should we look out for?
So I think it's really been cool to see him kind of in this maturation process, you know, first kind of figure out, oh, I can dominate games like you did in Bud's first year. And now all of a sudden there's there's all this complexity to what he does. And there's so much that goes into him not only being a great player, but a great leader and like the franchise.
And I just think it's been really kind of cool to see him do that now for 12 years.
Yeah. Well, I'm not going to do the thing where I make you make a pick. It's going to be fun. I'm really looking forward to the game tonight. I just the matchup is going to be kind of interesting. You know, I threw out the other night, Eric, that it may come down like if it's a close game late.
Giannis may have to guard Shea and and I'm kind of interested to just see what happens uh in that matchup like Shea has just been so great this season and I think that Giannis loves to prove himself against guys like that right you know yeah um I don't know anyway it's gonna
be a great game guys go and read that piece on yannis is at the athletic and then you know just follow eric's work he really is one of the best in the business that's why he's on here so much uh stick around guys after the break we've got andrew schleck to talk about the thunder and why they're gonna beat the bucks
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We're live from the Park MGM fighting the Wi-Fi in the hotel that we are all having issues with. Andrew Schlecht, Zena Keita, live. You guys just were at the arena. You were at media availability while I was getting set up to pod today. Anything come out in media day? Did Shay come out and start talking crap to the Bucs? Was J-Dub saying he's going to dunk on Giannis? Did we get anything fun?
Oh, no. I mean, it's all business here. It's all business here, Dave. They're locked in. They're ready. I think the thing that is maybe this is most interesting is that the Thunder really just want to test who they are under this environment because it is a different environment. Yeah. One, you're in Las Vegas, which I think is it just presents a lot of variables, I would say.
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Chapter 5: How does Giannis' leadership affect the Bucks?
Because this is a team that they do not want players to score at the rim. And they pack the paint and recover is kind of their strategy. And so they will pack the paint on Giannis. They'll throw a lot of guys on him. My guess is that Dort will start on him. I'm guessing Alex Caruso will see time on him. I think J-Dub will see time on him.
I think we'll see times where Isaiah Hartenstein has time on him. I think they'll throw the kitchen sink at Giannis tomorrow night. So we'll certainly see that. But it's really more about their team defense. How do they do against a player with that kind of gravity, with that kind of force going at the rim? And so that, to me, is probably the most interesting thing about this.
Because it really does matter if you're playing the Bucs. What does your defense do? There are numbers out there and people are saying it. This is one of the best defenses ever. Period. And... how do you do against a guy like Giannis? I think is really, is really important. And how do you do with the pressure of like winning this game?
You know, the Thunder, they've been in a pressurized environment before, you know, they were in the game six with Dallas and it was, they were one play away from winning the game. I know that that is, there's a bad taste in their mouth from that. And so now it's just another time to stress test that particular thing. It's like, how do we do in an elimination game? And so it's a cool opportunity.
Yeah.
It's a championship. It's not just an elimination game. Like the NBA is very upfront. This is an NBA cup championship game.
Who's going to capture the cup, Dave.
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Chapter 6: What are the Thunder aiming to prove in this game?
Who's going to capture the cup. Listen, I do think, I think, yeah, I don't know. Giannis, the way he looked to start that game against the Hawks, it, I, Him going head to head with the Thunder feels like a disaster for everyone but Giannis. I just do not know how they're going to contain him.
One of the things that Eric name just talked about in the first half of the show was the different ways that the Bucks have started getting Giannis the ball to kind of take away the ability to wall up the paint. So when he starts getting into these post ups that that he's. been better at this year.
You know, the turnaround fadeaway that he's kind of developed, the little mid-range jump shot so you can't just sag off. You know, who's the guy there? I mean, you mentioned Hardenstein. I think it probably has to be at some point, right? Like, he's got to carry a lot of that load.
Yeah, I mean, as a post defender, certainly you'd want Hartenstein to be that guy. But I think it's going to be a lot of guys. I think we'll even see Kendrick Williams being that guy at times. And they're just going to throw multiple guys at him. Let's be clear. They're going to make... Tori and Prince prove it. And they may pay for it because they've done this in the past.
If you go back, just go look at the numbers for the Mavericks in that series last year with the numbers for Luka and Kairi. They weren't good. The Thunder did a great job on them. And they were like, hey, everybody else on the Mavericks, prove it. Prove that you can beat us. And they did.
And so the same thing could happen tomorrow where they throw everything at Giannis and they're like, Tori and Prince... welcome to the show. Good luck. You know, they could do the same for AJ green. I think he's somebody else that they're like, Hey, great. Undrafted. We're really proud of you. Can you make seven of 10? You know, let's try it.
Let's see if you can do it because that's what you're going to have to do to beat us. And so that, that's kind of my expectation for how they handle this is like, let's, let's take away that thunder, give up more corner threes than any team in the league, by the way. And so it's, I think that it's more important for the Thunder to stop rim attempts than it is to stop the corners for them.
And sometimes it really works in their favor and sometimes it doesn't. And we'll see what happens tomorrow.
Yeah, it definitely does seem by design that the corner three, if you're packing the paint and recovering, leaving the corner open is a lot easier in terms of forcing a defender to kick it out perfectly to a corner shot as opposed to a wing shot. So that makes sense. I'm thinking about the fact that this is also like a...
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