Raging Moderates with Scott Galloway and Jessica Tarlov
How to Actually Drain the Swamp (feat. Rep. Ro Khanna)
Fri, 09 May 2025
Congressman Ro Khanna joins Jess to talk about reclaiming “Drain the Swamp” from the far right, why he thinks Democrats need to refocus on economic leadership, and what it means to be a “pro-growth progressive.” They get into his bipartisan strategy, his not-so-subtle ambitions, and what he’d do if he were at the top of the ticket. Follow Jessica Tarlov, @JessicaTarlov. Follow Prof G, @profgalloway.Follow Raging Moderates, @RagingModeratesPod. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
Chapter 1: Who is Ro Khanna and what does he represent?
Welcome to Raging Moderates. I'm Jessica Tarlow. And today I've got Congressman Ro Khanna with me. He represents California's 17th district right in the heart of Silicon Valley. He's known for being a bold progressive, but also someone who knows how to work across the aisle when it counts. Whether it's taking on corruption in D.C.
with his Drain the Swamp Act or promoting what he calls economic patriotism, he's pushing for a Democratic Party that's both idealistic and grounded. And he's not exactly subtle with his ambitions. He's got a clear vision for the party's future and maybe even his own. Congressman Khanna, it's great to have you here. Welcome to the show.
Thank you for having me.
It's so great. I always see you on Fox and I'm like, yeah, I've got a buddy here. So it's wonderful to have you here now on the podcast as well.
Oh, I'm honored to be on.
I wanted to start kind of big picture. People have been giving their first 100 days assessment, but what has really stuck out to you most about what the Trump administration is doing?
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Chapter 2: What are Ro Khanna's views on the Trump administration's economic policies?
Well, they are destroying the economy. I mean, they are using 19th century ideas, blanket high tariffs by McKinley, a sense that of James Polk-like expansionism, without understanding the 21st century world. And the consequence has been the lowest consumer confidence in years, the bond yields going up, a really dangerous situation where you've got both Mark Carney, who was the bank of
Canada's governor, Bank of England governor, threatening to be selling bonds. And now you've got Japan threatening to be selling bonds. I mean, they're upsetting our allies, really. And if the bond yields go up, as you know, that means that the debt is going to be a huge burden.
So they've destabilized consumer confidence, destabilized the bond market, created volatility in the stock market and people's retirement. And small businesses and manufacturers are having a hard time getting parts. So my biggest concern with them is what they've done to the economy. The second thing is the disregard for the Constitution.
I saw Karl Rove on the other day, and he said, I don't understand it. Just bring the Brego back, give him a trial. If he's guilty, then you can deport him.
But the idea that they've let this drag on for weeks and that they have created fear in this country that any person who's here, even if they're on a legal immigration status, could get a knock on the door and be deported is a violation of rights. really is upsetting people's patriotism. In America, patriotism first and foremost means an allegiance to the Constitution.
Yeah, well, he's not a lawyer, so he's not really sure about his constitutional duties at this point, or at least that's what he told Kristen Welker. But you're dancing around this idea of economic patriotism, which you've been talking about. How do you, well, first of all, can you define that for our listeners, but then also put it in context of the Democratic Party's leadership?
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Chapter 3: What is economic patriotism according to Ro Khanna?
Because it has been a big concern of mine that for as terrible as things are going for the Trump administration, and we see it in the approval ratings, for the Republican side, that Democrats have actually not been able to capitalize on that and to affirm to the American public that we would actually be able to do a better job.
I will answer the question economic patriotism. I just do want to say that J.D. Vance is a lawyer. We both went to Yale Law School and I gave a major speech at Yale Law School just a week ago.
I hope some folks will check out calling him out or basically telling the country that there should be no due process for those who are not citizens, which is a violation of the 14th Amendment and for calling universities the enemy and calling for defying of the court. He knows better. But on economic patriotism, it's pretty simple.
We need to say we understand the economic future and we want to make sure that every community in this country, particularly communities that were hollowed out and deindustrialized, that every community, every family, every child is going to have economic security and economic prosperity in the 21st century.
And the way we're going to do this is to build things in this country, to build an economy in every part of this country by marrying
the technology of places like Silicon Valley, the AI, the robotics, with the work ethic, the industrial capability in other parts of the country to build advanced steel plants, to build biotechnology, to build a new industry, but also to have AI academies across this country that have manufacturing work pods across the country at universities. And then we can go into the specifics.
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Chapter 4: How does Ro Khanna propose to revitalize American industry?
I would just provide three simple ones. I have a White House Economic Development Council, like we have a White House National Security Council that has a Marshall Plan for America and the development of every community in this country. Make sure that we're financing the workforce and the new factories that we want.
Let's also make sure we're financing technology and education and healthcare, recognizing that communities that have economic development are going to diversify. Yes, they need advanced manufacturing factories, but they also need other sectors. And let's build this in places like Lorain and Johnstown and Milwaukee across this country to help bring this country together.
Well, that sounds great. And it sounds like what Howard Letnick wishes that he was able to say when he does these haphazard interviews, but I'm being generous with the term haphazard. How have you found that the vision that you just put forward is being embraced by our party?
Well, Ludwig has got all the right buzzwords. He would say, oh, I agree with Raoul. We need to have manufacturing. We need to have steel. We need to have Neumann and aluminum. My question is how? How? How can you do it when you don't fund the workforce? How can you do it when you don't finance the factories? And you're competing with other countries.
How can you do it when you don't have government be a source of procurement? How can you do it when you're defunding, not funding universities to build that technology hub? So all he's saying is, well, we're going to have tariffs. But tariffs, you can't protect industry until you build industry.
And tariffs are hurting the manufacturers actually getting the supply parts before we built the supply chain here. So that is the fundamental challenge with... Let me give you one other point. I wish he had a few economists around him. He said in this speech that... If we lower the trade deficit by $300 billion, we're going to increase our GDP by $300 billion. I wish it was that simple.
And so if we eliminate the trillion-dollar trade deficit, magically, we'd have 3% GDP growth overnight. The problem with that reasoning, if you increase domestic production by lowering the trade deficit, you also reduce capital inflows, and capital inflows go to lower treasury bond yields, which go to domestic manufacturing. I know it's a little bit wonky, but it's not a one-to-one relationship.
Now, most people don't need to know that, but the Commerce Secretary does. He can't be spouting economic nonsense and expect to rebuild the country. I think Democrats need a greater fluency in the language of the economy. I think we need a greater sense of understanding that you have to not just have economic fairness, but economic growth. We need to be a party that stands for building things.
We need to be a party that is not afraid to involve business leaders in the economic renewal of this country. We need to be a party that understands that we need technology as part of the economic renewal of this country. And I think there's going to be a clash of ideas for the democratic future.
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Chapter 5: How does Ro Khanna balance progressive values with economic growth?
Who's going to make sure that this country is wealthy, not from a 19th century perspective, but a 21st century perspective? Who's going to build economic security for families and communities in this time? I want people to think of the Democratic Party. And I want people to say Ro Khanna played a role in getting the Democratic Party to that.
Yeah, I imagine that they're going to. And one thing that I've always felt that you've done really well is have the strong progressive bona fides, but also be able to speak like you just did to the fact that we are a capitalist country and that capitalism is one of, if not the greatest engine for good that we've ever had. And you represent a lot of capitalists.
I thought it was really important that you were on. I when people were setting Tesla dealerships on fire and Tim Walz was wanting to tank Tesla stock. And you said, I have, was it 60, 70,000 people in your district whose pensions are tied to Tesla?
No, 25,000 at Tesla. But of course, they spend money and are supportive of the economy. And a lot of people in my district are employed. But I would speak out against vandalizing Tesla, cheering for Tesla stock to go down if they were any American company.
Sorry. Yes, you are not an arsonist. I didn't mean to imply that, but it felt distinctive at this moment where Democrats are kind of trying to claw at anything that was anti-Elon Musk for you to just have this common sense approach.
to answering the question about an American company, but also about capitalism and saying we have to be able to separate whatever our political ambitions are or whatever is resonating the most, which is this anti-Elon messaging with what's actually right for the country.
Absolutely. I mean, look, we should be cheering for the success of American companies. We should be cheering for American companies to build wealth, but then to pay workers well, to give workers equity in there, to allow for labor neutrality and unionization, to invest across the country. But I am a believer in technology. I'm a believer in entrepreneurship.
I'm a believer that you have to have the government investment to build the infrastructure. That's what DARPA did. That's what NSF did with the internet. But then you need private companies to help scale it and commercialize it. And why do you need private companies to do that as opposed to the government? Because it requires a lot of adjustments and testing and changes.
And it has to be done very fast to be able to scale. And it is the collaboration. between that government investment in the private sector that has allowed for America to emerge as the greatest economy in the world. And that is what we need, not just in places like Silicon Valley, but around the country.
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Chapter 6: What is Ro Khanna's legislative agenda with the Drain the Swamp Act?
I read that there is a small business that is paying $20 million to Donald Trump's mean coin. They're buying $20 million. And the CEO is bragging that he's hoping that he's going to get exemptions for the trade negotiations with Mexico. How is this... happening in plain sight and we aren't railing against it. Our party should be the party that says, we don't take PAC money.
We don't take lobbyist money. We should be against super PACs. Abolish them. No one should be allowed to give millions of dollars to a super PAC when they can only give $3,500 to a candidate. That's only in my bill to do that. And Maine passed that by 70%. We should be, of course, against stock trading. We should be the party that says, we're not for members of Congress becoming lobbyists.
that lobbyists shouldn't be able to give members money or gifts or White House officials gifts, that no elected official should be able to trade in meme coins. Let's become the party that says, let's clean up the mess.
I feel like we are always that party, right? Who says these things? And then you come up against the fact that the laws haven't changed and you're going to be handicapped versus another side that can take infinite money from super PACs or that can be building resorts in the Middle East or whatever it is that Kushner and Don Jr. are doing at this point.
And does it kind of feel like we would be showing up to a gunfight with a knife?
You know, I think we can advocate to the legislation, first of all, to stop it before, you know, voluntarily complying. Where I do think we should voluntarily comply is in Democratic primaries. I mean, look, if the Republican nominee is Donald Trump in the past, I had no problem that Kamala Harris had to match the spending. But we don't need to do that in a Democratic primary.
We can say there can't be unilateral disarmament against a Republican, but that shouldn't apply to a Democratic primary.
Donald Trump's been back in office long enough to shock or surprise just about anyone who voted for him at this point, be it the signal scandal or the tariff turnarounds, the Jeanine Pirro of it all, the way he talks about Ozempic.
And he takes the fat, the fat shot drug. So rude. I'm in London and I just paid for this damn fat drug I take. I said, it's not working.
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