Donald Trump's top national security officials plan a major offensive in a Signal chat—after mistakenly inviting a journalist to join—and hilarity ensues. More American institutions cave to Trump's pressure campaigns, and the administration presses on with its effort to use the Alien Enemies Act to deport immigrants without so much as a hearing. Jon, Lovett, and Tommy break down all the latest developments and compare notes from a weekend spent in the field with Democratic campaigners. Then, Kentucky Governor Andy Beshear sits down with Jon to talk about how we can win in red states. For a closed-captioned version of this episode, click here. For a transcript of this episode, please email [email protected] and include the name of the podcast. To grab your tickets to Lovett or Leave It live in DC on April 24, visit: https://www.ticketmaster.com/event/1500626D89D419E2
Chapter 1: What sparked the chaos in Trump's group chat?
On today's show, we're going to talk about one of the most insane stories of the year, which is saying quite a lot. The highest-ranking Trump officials used a group chat to make war plans and accidentally included the Atlantic's Jeff Goldberg. Polarity ensues.
It's the funniest person you could possibly include on that group chat, too. It's perfect. Unless it was a Houthi.
That would have been pretty bad, too.
Yeah. I wonder if Mike Waltz has any Houthis in his contacts.
We'll also cover the ongoing, enraging legal drama over Trump's new policy of declaring people terrorists and sending them to a foreign gulag without due process. We'll talk about the disturbing trend of legal and academic institutions capitulating to the Trump regime.
And then later in the show, you'll hear my conversation with Kentucky Governor Andy Beshear, a potential 2028 contender, about how Democrats can win in red states and fix the party. But first, the three of us briefly escaped our liberal L.A. bubbles this weekend. Lovett, you went the farthest.
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Chapter 2: How are Democrats campaigning in red states?
You bet.
You went to Wisconsin to campaign for Judge Susan Crawford, who's running to keep the liberal majority on the state Supreme Court against an Elon Musk-funded opponent. You saw our pal Ben Wickler. How was it?
So we had a great time out there. Tons and tons of people came out on a Saturday and Sunday. We did six kickoffs, a couple hundred people over the course of the weekend knocking on doors. It was good to be out there. I know that a lot of people feel a little bit discouraged about what the value is of getting out there and doing the phone banking and the texting and the calling.
But being out there, it's a reminder that it is valuable for you to be among like-minded people who are fighting. You get something from it. You learn something from it.
knocking on doors and just talking to people a lot of it was just trying to remind people who are already pretty progressive in places like Madison to turn out to vote most of them already had but it was kind of a it's a reminder that like so much of our politics is asymmetrical right like it is Totally normal for J.D.
Vance to go on television and insult liberals and the and the people that live in cosmopolitan liberal cities. But it's so inconceivable to have that in the other direction. Right. Imagine Elizabeth Warren going on a bunch of fucking trash idiots down there and down there in Alabama. Like it's not possible. So we just take a lot of hits.
And there are so many there's this there's woman that really stuck with me. She's an older lady. And she was gardening, and she's like, they ran out of signs for Judge Crawford, so I made my own, and I made some for my neighbors, and I just can't believe what's happening to our country, and I'm just so scared, and I'm just so sad. And we've taken a lot of fucking shit, and we don't deserve it.
And just being out in the world with people who feel the same way was really inspiring. And a lot of people are really pissed about Elon Musk dumping $13 million into the race.
I bet. Did you encounter anyone who's not supporting Susan Crawford because she's not burning enough Teslas? So I will tell you the number that didn't burn enough for her.
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Chapter 3: What legal challenges are facing American institutions under Trump?
We don't really have anything to do with that, but here's why it's important for you to vote in this race and why it's a bad thing that Brad Schimel is fully funded by Elon Musk.
All attention is not good attention.
No, no, no. It really did make me, it did just a reminder. Even in Dane County, where Democrats get Putin margins. I will say, though, there are very funny people on the street. People just are bringing up the Teslas being lit on fire. It's just like fully broken through. And because we talk, like Elon Musk is dumping all this money into the state.
And somebody was like, and I'm setting all the Teslas on fire, which is not something I agree with, but I'm not losing sleep over it. Jesus Christ.
Nice. So Tommy and I drove up to Norco, California, or out to Norco, California, I guess. Yeah, I guess east. East of here, to be part of a town hall put on by our friend Rokana, part of what he's calling his Benefits Over Billionaires Tour. Ken Calvert, the Republican congressman who represents the area, he isn't doing town halls. So Rowe decided that he would.
He went to Bakersfield, then he went to Norco, where we were, and then he went to Anaheim. So he had three events yesterday. What did you think?
A couple observations. People, Democrats in that district hate Ken Calvert, hate his guts. He's been around for decades. They can't get rid of him. And they were really grateful to Roe for coming out. I mean, we had a similar experience. You did love it. I mean, I think Roe said the crowd we saw was about a thousand people. It's definitely several hundred. I was expecting like 50.
And everyone we talked to, whether they're from the 41st district or not, they were scared, they were angry, they were desperate for any guidance on what to do in this moment and any kind of leadership and someplace to channel their energy.
And I think the Democratic Party needs to view these events as a huge opportunity because all of us are having the same conversation about how things feel worse this time and it's scary and there's no marches, there's no clear sense of activism and people seem a little more resigned to what's to come.
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Chapter 4: How are colleges dealing with Trump's federal funding threats?
They just genuinely don't know in their most cynical, weaselly souls whether or not it is smarter for them to stick with Elon. or to buck Elon vote against a bill that's unpopular and stand with their constituents. And basically, does Elon Musk's money in Wisconsin buy a Supreme Court seat? If it does, they'll say, fuck it.
I can stick with him and I don't have to worry about a primary and he'll protect me in November. But if it doesn't, all of a sudden, they'll start to have more questions. So like the stakes in the Wisconsin rate are incredibly important in Wisconsin, but they're very, very big beyond Wisconsin.
And if you want to get involved, either by campaigning in Wisconsin or attending a town hall or a rally near you, tons of helpful information on VoteSafeAmerica.com, so check it out. All right, let's get back to all the terrible news out there. Trump, like most authoritarians, has been using the power of the state to weaken and punish any potential opposition.
And more of his targets are unfortunately choosing to capitulate instead of fight. Last Friday, the law firm Paul Weiss struck a deal with Trump to stop an executive order designed to cripple the firm's ability to take on clients and cases involving the federal government, even to step into a federal courthouse. The cost?
Paul Weiss is committing to $40 million worth of pro bono work across four issues favored by the Trump administration. In an email to colleagues on Sunday, the head of Paul Weiss, Brad Karp, defended the deal by calling the executive order an, quote, existential crisis that could easily have destroyed the firm.
At least two other law firms, Perkins Coie and Covington & Burling, are also staring down executive orders. But in a sign that appeasement never works...
Trump then released a memo Friday night directing Attorney General Pam Bondi and Department of Homeland Security Secretary Kristi Noem to, quote, seek sanctions against attorneys and law firms who engage in frivolous, unreasonable and vexatious litigation against the federal government, essentially trying to choke off the inevitable and already numerous suits filed against his legal actions.
So this seems absolutely insane. What do you guys make of Brad Karp's explanation for his firm's capitulation?
It reminds it's oddly similar to Chuck Schumer's explanation for why they're voting for the CR, which is like, yeah, no, we understand this. So this maybe that's a good reason to fight them. Right. If they're using their levers of power to in these sort of unconstitutional, extra legal ways that maybe you should fight them.
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Chapter 5: What are the implications of Trump's deportation policies?
Paul Weiss, the White House says that Paul Weiss agreed to merit-based hiring and not doing anything DEI related, which is a problem because a firm like Paul Weiss should be able to hire whatever lawyers they want, including people from diverse backgrounds. It's a good thing for them as a practice.
But there was also a piece of it where the White House said they agreed to retain some expert in employment practices to review their hiring. To like audit the firm or something. Right, which is super weird. Like some outside expert is going to tell them how to hire. That seems bad. So yeah, the principle is terrible.
But then it's also like... You know, the attention span of the Donald Trump evil eye is quite short, and it's going to turn to something else. Is there going to be somebody in the bowels of the OEOB that's going to be like, now it's my day to follow up with Paul Weiss to make sure they spent the $40 million here, they spent the $40 million there?
Maybe.
Maybe, but I... I get the sense that what everybody's trying to do is just get that evil eye off of them, and then they can go back to business as usual. That's what I think they're thinking they're going to do.
I agree with that, and I think that there's a collective action problem here, which if you look at Brad Karp's letter, and we just talked about this, the individual details do not seem as alarming, what they had to give up, right, as sort of the overall headline. The problem is, and I think that the memo Friday night
that's basically for everyone makes this clear, is these firms would be in a better position to fight this if they did so together. Each individual firm is like, well, if I become the target, I'm going to lose a bunch of clients. This is what Paul Weiss was saying, right? And you mentioned ExxonMobil, but plenty of regular clients who weren't ExxonMobil were like, no, no, I'm out of here.
Because any client that they had with a federal contract, the Trump administration would have pulled the contract if they kept Paul Weiss as the firm. So if you're one of those clients now, you're like, well, I want to keep my federal contracts. I like the firm, but I'm not going to do...
you can see where each individual and each individual firm makes a decision that, okay, to save myself from this, I'm going to, you know, I'm not going to give up too much anyway. And this, I was going to do the pro bono work anyway, so it's not a big deal. I'm just going to capitulate. But the problem is Trump smells blood and then they're just going to keep going.
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Chapter 6: How are Democrats planning to win back voters?
And so I think that it is incumbent upon every single person in the country who is scared about this and worried about what's happening to start organizing so that some of these firms and some of these corporations become a little less scared of fighting because there's actually a popular movement behind it.
and G6 ain't gonna gas itself up, buddy.
Right, or scared of the backlash when they do the wrong thing. I will just say, like, I think one of the other things this exposes, right, it is a collective action problem, but also like at these firms, right, like, uh, uh, the head of Paul Weiss, big, big Democrat, right. But whose biggest clients are one of the biggest oil companies on planet earth.
There's kind of always been this sort of dividing line between like how corporate lawyers make their money and what these firms actually do. And then there are good works, right? How they involve themselves in politics. Some of their pro bono cases. And I just, it's, it's nuanced, right? Because some of the most important, uh,
uh cases before the supreme court have been by uh litigators who like cut their teeth or are at these firms representing clients as part of their uh ethical pro bono work that they do to uh pay back god for what they did during the rest of their fucking time uh so that the pearly gates they can explain and by the way if you're a corporate lawyer who may one day represent me i'm especially grateful didn't realize you were doing this for poverty wages
I'm not saying there's, that's not the point, right? I think we don't read X on mobile ads, but they do. They sure do. You want to do, we could do X on mobile ads, but we say no to those things. We make ethical choices within a complicated and gray system. Anyway, all I'm getting at is these guys are now being put to the test. Of course, they're not going to pass this test.
That's not why they became corporate lawyers.
Yeah. yeah i just think that there's an argument just on the on the merits for the for their bottom line long term to fight now and not well that that is a good argument yes but long term i don't know like they think that short term this is good for them and maybe they're right individually but long term you know i don't think you want to be in a country like this
Well, that's of course the big problem, right? Like in the long term, it is bad for the American economy to shift into a kind of pay the regime a corruption fee in order to do business. The better you know Trump, the more likely you are to get the deal. Like that has not been good for the economy of Hungary. But in the short term, they think they can make some money and avoid some of the fallout.
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