Nobody Should Believe Me
Case Files 14: Susan Smith and the Impact of False Accusations with Celisia Stanton
Thu, 03 Apr 2025
In this episode, Andrea is joined by Celisia Stanton, the host and creator of Truer Crime. Andrea and Celisia dive into the Susan Smith case, a story that garnered national attention in the 90s. Through talking about the case, they segue into the complex themes surrounding false accusations, media representation, racial bias, mental health, and the nature of violence. Andrea and Celisia discuss the dichotomy of having empathy for an offender, while also holding them accountable for their actions. *** Listen to Truer Crime: https://truercrimepodcast.com/ Order Andrea's new book The Mother Next Door: Medicine, Deception, and Munchausen by Proxy https://read.macmillan.com/lp/the-mother-next-door-9781250284273/ View our sponsors. Remember that using our codes helps advertisers know you’re listening and helps us keep making the show! https://www.nobodyshouldbelieveme.com/sponsors/ Follow Andrea on Instagram for behind-the-scenes photos: https://www.instagram.com/andreadunlop/ Buy Andrea's books: https://www.amazon.com/stores/Andrea-Dunlop/author/B005VFWJPI To support the show, go to http://Patreon.com/NobodyShouldBelieveMe or subscribe on Apple Podcasts (https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/nobody-should-believe-me/id1615637188?ign-itscg=30200S&ign-itsct=larjmedia_podcasts) where you can get all episodes early and ad-free and access exclusive ethical true crime bonus content. For more information and resources on Munchausen by Proxy, please visit http://MunchausenSupport.com The American Professional Society on the Abuse of Children’s MBP Practice Guidelines can be downloaded here: https://apsac.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/05/Munchausen-by-Proxy-Clinical-and-Case-Management-Guidance-.pdf *** Sources: https://www.hulu.com/series/impact-x-nightline-killer-mom-the-case-of-susan-smith-0b1f5ce7-cb4f-4a2a-a827-84052e5a5415 https://www.cnn.com/2024/11/21/us/susan-smith-south-carolina-case-parole/index.htmlhttps://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cp3npzxd1lwo https://apnews.com/article/susan-smith-parole-south-carolina-3c7c12e0cd0a23eee0e42a599b689597 https://apnews.com/article/susan-smith-parole-south-carolina-ae37185c6d9d056104c839b03bd1cac0 https://www.wyff4.com/article/local-history-arrest-parole-killer-susan-smith/62028246 https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1995-07-28-mn-28940-story.html Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
Chapter 1: What is the focus of the Susan Smith case discussion?
True Story Media. Hello, it's Andrea, and I've got a really fascinating Case Files episode for you today. This is a crossover with my friend, Silesia Stanton, creator of the excellent podcast, Truer Crime, which we will be sharing an episode of in the feed tomorrow. Today, Silesia and I are talking about the Susan Smith case, which touches on a bunch of themes that both of our shows cover.
I love doing these crossover episodes with other shows. So let me know if there are other shows or creators that you think we should talk to. If you want to get in touch with us about that or anything else, give us a shout at hello at nobody should believe me dot com. Or you can leave us a comment on Spotify. We also appreciate ratings and reviews of the show on Apple Podcasts.
And of course, if you want even more, nobody should believe me. You can subscribe on Apple Podcasts or Patreon and get two bonus episodes a month. Now with that, here's the show. Just a quick reminder that my new book, The Mother Next Door, Medicine, Deception, and Munchausen by Proxy, is on sale right now wherever books are sold.
The book was an Amazon editor's pick for nonfiction, and the Seattle Times called it a riveting deep dive into MVP. And if you are an audiobook lover and you like hearing my voice, which I'm assuming you do since you're listening here, You should know that I narrate the audiobook as well. If you have already read the book, which I know so many of you have, thank you so much.
Please let me know your thoughts and questions at helloandnobodieshouldbelieveme.com and we will bring my co-author, Detective Mike Weber, on for a little book Q&A and post-retirement tell-all special. Thanks for your support.
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Chapter 2: How did Celisia Stanton start Truer Crime?
Yeah, well, I'm really excited to be able to chat with you today. My show, Truer Crime, I actually created it just sort of as an outgrowth of my own personal experiences. In 2020, I actually, long story short, was defrauded of my life savings by a financial advisor who turned out he was defrauding all of his investor clients.
He was actually a fiduciary, meaning he had like extra legal financial responsibilities and he still chose to kind of use this money for his own personal game, like vacations and homes and cars and things like that. And so that was obviously a super jarring experience for me. And after I had found out about this, like, you know, all my life savings was gone.
He actually had stole over $2 million total from all of his clients. But after that, I was kind of like, you know, navigating this whole criminal legal process and also just, you you know, it was 2020. So there wasn't a lot going on. I've been a wedding and portrait photographer for many years. And so winter in Minnesota during the pandemic, not a time of a lot of business.
And so I was like literally just binging true crime all day. It was kind of like a coping mechanism for dealing with this thing that, you know, I'd never kind of seen coming. And Um, and then sort of, you know, just constantly pausing those shows and complaining to my husband about things I felt like were missing from a lot of true crime narratives.
Um, you know, obviously I found that the sort of like listening to them, you know, interesting and engaging. And there was something, um, that was really drawing me in for episode after episode. episode, but I also felt like a lot of these shows really didn't dive into race or gender or sexuality or the root causes of crime.
And so I kind of just started having so many conversations with my husband about that, that he was eventually like, why don't you start your own podcast? And I was like, yeah, I love that idea. Let me see if I can do it. Give it a try. And so that's how Truer Crime came to be. And I just produced that first season kind of independently, put it out in the spring of 2021.
And it really grew from there. And I found that a lot of people also resonated with like wanting to hear true crime, you know, told a little bit differently with more nuance and empathy. And just kind of like diving into, you know, why do these things happen? And so, you know, I've been working on the season two after that first season.
And so that's 10 additional episodes that, you know, we started releasing in January. And yeah, it's been an interesting ride. I'm excited to kind of continue and put out more episodes down the road.
Yeah, well, you know, your show is excellent. I love it. And I love the way that you cover cases. And, you know, I have a similar relationship to the genre, right? I got into it because of a personal experience and because I could not find the kind of content around that, the kind of information around that that I wanted and that would have been helpful to me when I was going through it.
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Chapter 3: What are the details of the Susan Smith case?
Yeah. Yeah, definitely. I feel like you never know how anyone would react in a situation like that. You know, everyone probably is a little bit different. But I think, you know, anybody could watch that and just feel like so much, you know, stress of like, oh, my gosh, like what had happened to these kids. And, you know, for these parents to kind of be without their kids is super alarming. Yeah.
Yeah, so really heartbreaking story, obvious, like easy to see why this really caught attention. And yeah, I think as a parent, like this is just your worst fear, right? Someone disappearing with your kids, anything happening to your kids.
So I think anybody who's a parent, I mean, I think anybody who's a human being with a heart, but also like in particular parents, this just like gets such a visceral fear that like you can see why this had such a big reaction, right?
So as this is going on, as this massive manhunt is going on, investigators are talking to both of the parents and, you know, like, unfortunately, statistically, if something bad happens to children, it is most likely to be their parents or a family member. The whole stranger danger thing is, you know, which I don't know how old you are, but I was born in the early in the early 80s.
So it's like that was kind of like peak like 80s and 90s was like stranger danger, like someone's going to drive up in a van and snatch you. So I think this was still like this was probably still within that cultural context of like a lot of attention to how dangerous strangers could be to children and not a lot of attention to how dangerous parents could be to children.
Yeah, yeah, definitely. And I think, you know, it just in general, I feel like there's so many true crime stories that come out of the 90s that are especially like really, you know, well known that folks are talking about. I mean, I think about like also JonBenet Ramsey happening in this kind of similar era. This is actually in 1994 is the year before I was born.
Um, so, you know, like, I don't have like a ton of memories of this time, but just being in the true crime space, it's like, yeah, there's so many stories kind of like this. And I think, you know, I think of even in Minnesota, you know, we have the Jacob Wetterling case. I'm not sure if you're familiar with that one.
Um, but you know, and this happened before, uh, before the nineties, but you know, it was just like a time where I feel like it was like, oh my gosh, like something could happen to your kids. Like a stranger could come out of nowhere and just take them. And I think that created, you know, a lot of panic.
Yeah, absolutely. And yeah, so basically, you know, as this as these like pleas to the media are happening and she's doing, you know, Susan Smith does a number of interviews. The investigators are looking closely at the parents, right, to see if they know anything about what happened. And Susan Smith's story about the carjacking just basically completely falls apart. There's a ton of holes in it.
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Chapter 4: How did Susan Smith's false accusation impact the community?
And, you know, I was talking to actually a psychologist colleague about this yesterday about why it seems like, you know, some of the offenders that we deal with are telling the truth when they're not, right? Where it just doesn't necessarily read like they're lying when they are lying.
And she talked about how, you know, people in this sort of area, and I think we can talk about sort of like the mental health aspects of this with Susan Smith, but that like, if you are, you know, have these types of personality disorders that cause people to do these things. that you're much, much more adept at compartmentalization, right?
And I sort of like, I think that was just what was in my mind watching her. I'm like, I think it's just such a trip to sort of watch someone making this appeal and making this big story up about, you know, a Black man carjacking her when she knows the truth.
Yeah, you know, actually, that's interesting that you kind of mentioned that because, well, it's almost like you would think it'd be the opposite, like somebody who is a really adept liar or perhaps has some kind of like personality disorder or whatever that like, you know, is somehow related to this crime that they've committed or these actions they've taken.
You almost think that like they would be able to like sort of if they can compartmentalize so well, deceive people like pretty well. Yeah.
And versus it being something that we can like kind of pull out and tease out, which is I think what a lot of us like to do listening to true crime is like, okay, maybe if I listen to this 911 call or I watch that video, then I'm, you know, I can kind of tell based on my gut feeling.
But it does also remind me of my own experience just working with the financial advisor who had defrauded me and was defrauding all of his clients. You know, we didn't have one of those relationships where it was like, oh, you would – you know, you talk to them like once a year, like he was very involved with his clients and kind of just like helping with sort of financial health broadly.
And so I actually met with him, I don't remember if it was every week or every other week, but like consistently. And so it was so interesting, like in retrospect, because, you know, we would get on these calls and, you know, we would like talk about our pets or he'd ask about my husband. I remember the election, the 2020 election was happening at the time. So we would be talking about that.
And all the while, he knows what he's doing. He knows he's stealing all of this money. And he's not just having these conversations with me. He's having the conversations with all of his victims who I would eventually go on to meet a good number of them just through that whole criminal legal process. And
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Chapter 5: What are the psychological aspects of deception in crime?
Um, kind of makes it feel like, you know, this story about, oh, I'm gonna take my own life. It's really about maybe she's, you know, kind of delusional enough to believe, oh, I can get rid of my old life and then enter into this new life. And then I don't have children anymore. So there's no baggage.
There's no problem for this, you know, guy to then start to restart this relationship with me, which doesn't actually make any sense, right? Like, Even putting her wedding dress and the photo and photo albums in the car doesn't make sense because at some point they're going to come across this car and they're going to be like, why is this in here? Right.
So, like, I think it kind of speaks to what we had already said about the sort of like delusion and compartmentalization that had to have been happening.
But I also think it's interesting that she didn't kind of come clean even now it sounds like she's sort of lying even after she's admitted to it she's lying about you know what her intentions were you know maybe she's hoping to garner some sympathy or something like that but you know it's just it's really upsetting because you would hope that at the point that all right I've done it she could at least you know be honest about why.
Yeah, and I mean, it definitely strikes me as like, and not delusional in the sense that she's suffering from like actual delusions or psychosis, but sort of a, yeah, like disordered way of thinking, right? Where it's just like, oh, well, yeah, let me solve the problem by getting rid of my children and getting rid of my old life. And then this person will want me back. And I think, yeah,
One of the things I think that really worked against any defense about mental health or anything about it being not premeditated was that she had told family members that she had sort of fantasized about what if she hadn't had kids so young. And so I think there was some evidence that she had been sort of felt as though she was trapped in that situation.
So she's arrested and the car is pulled out of the lake. Again, just so... shattering for the father, shattering for the family members, and really for the whole community. Because I think especially when there was this massive manhunt and massive amount of resources dedicated to finding these boys.
So you can imagine that people really felt a sense of betrayal when they found out who had been responsible for it. And then there's this additional element of her blaming a fictional black perpetrator and that this had really caused some tension and some fear within the community of are they going to find someone that fits that sort of
general description and hold them accountable for it um and you know when there was like no such person even sort of on the scene um and yeah i mean that really like watching some of those interviews with the community members and and how that had affected them um yeah that that just really struck me and of course this goes back to some like very very age-old um
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Chapter 6: What are the racial implications of false accusations?
And in that case, it's a little bit different because Alice Siebold was actually attacked. She just misidentified her perpetrator. But I think there were so many holes in that case as well insofar as like, for example, Alice was presented a lineup that included Anthony Broadwater and a bunch of other people, and she didn't pick the right person, or she didn't pick Anthony, I should say.
She picked a different person out of the lineup. So red flag number one, right, that maybe she's misidentified Anthony. And there's a number of sort of other things like that, but it goes to trial. She sits up on the witness stand. She points him out when she's asked to point to the perpetrator, and
She's given a lot of sympathy and sort of like can just sort of paper over the things that they don't want to believe, you know, are red flags in order to kind of like get to justice. And I think a lot of times, too, it's not always an instance of like just in general, whenever there's misconduct with policing or anything like that, I don't think it's always or even often that it's.
there's like a willful intent to railroad somebody. Oftentimes it's like just feeding into whatever biases you already have. It is, you know, not taking the time to actually do things properly. And so when you have this feeling of like, okay, well, my job is to get justice. Here we go. We have somebody who looks like they could be the perpetrator. Sure. Let's, you know,
signed, sealed, delivered, they could be the one that we convict and send to prison.
And I think that that's kind of interesting that it's like we do have to kind of consider these biases when we're examining these cases because it can allow for innocent people to sort of be wrapped up in, you know, just a narrative that feels familiar to us, even if it's not true and even if it's obviously not true.
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