NerdWallet's Smart Money Podcast
Debt in the Dating World and Retirement Planning for Entrepreneurs and Business Owners
Mon, 10 Feb 2025
Learn how debt affects dating, plus expert advice on retirement planning for business owners navigating succession and savings. When does debt become a red flag in the dating world? How can business owners best plan for retirement? Hosts Sean Pyles and Elizabeth Ayoola discuss a new NerdWallet survey revealing how financial responsibility impacts romantic relationships, and they explore how different types of debt — like student loans versus credit card debt—affect dating prospects. Plus, they discuss why financial transparency matters, and they give you some steps to take if you want to become more financially appealing to a potential partner. Then, Sean and co-host Sara Rathner talk with an organic produce farmer, Tenzin, about how to plan for retirement, particularly as a business owner. They cover key retirement planning benchmarks, when to shift from reinvesting in a business to personal savings, and succession strategies for business owners looking to transition out of an active role. Read about the findings of NerdWallet’s new survey on debt in dating: https://www.nerdwallet.com/article/finance/data-undateable-debt Mentions: How to choose a financial advisor Retirement calculator In their conversation, the Nerds discuss: how much debt is too much, financial red flags, debt and relationships, money and dating, financial green flags, how to talk about money in relationships, paying off debt before marriage, retirement planning for small business owners, small business succession planning, selling a family business, how to retire as a business owner, when to stop reinvesting in your business, how to transition a business to employees, retirement savings benchmarks, financial planning for entrepreneurs, choosing a financial planner, business transition strategies, how to retire without selling your business, business exit strategies, small business succession options, employee ownership models, planning for retirement as a farmer, financial planning for farmers, debt and dating statistics, and money habits in relationships. To send the Nerds your money questions, call or text the Nerd hotline at 901-730-6373 or email [email protected]. Like what you hear? Please leave us a review and tell a friend.
Chapter 1: What financial red flags should you watch for in the dating world?
Oh, you must want me to be talking all day, Sean. But I'm proud to say that I'm now well versed in red flags, and they're no longer a carnival for me. So with that said, the last red flag for me was a guy I was dating calling my son a third wheel.
Wow.
And for good measure, I'm going to throw in another one. So I also met a guy who wanted to have more kids. He had six already, but he did not have a plan for more income.
Wow. Well, I got to say, those make me glad that I'm not in the dating pool. Well, for some people, the amount of debt that you carry might just turn them away from dating you. Welcome to NerdWallet's Smart Money Podcast. I'm Sean Piles.
Chapter 2: How does debt influence dating prospects?
And I'm Elizabeth Ayola.
This episode, we talk with a listener to help them figure out what their retirement might look like, including whether they should leave the farm that they built their life around.
But first of all, we're talking about a new NerdWallet survey that tells us how much debt might make you seem like a walking red flag to a potential romantic partner. And we are joined by Sarah Rathner for this conversation. Hey, Sarah.
Hey, everyone. Let's tell listeners how to avoid being a hot mess. Well, financially anyway, I can't help you if you're a hot mess in other areas of your life.
All right, well, Sarah, tell us, how much debt makes someone undateable?
So on average, about $20,000. That's a lot, so it's pretty forgiving. And even more forgiving, a lot of people would actually be OK if their partner has any amount of debt.
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Chapter 3: What financial traits make someone a desirable partner?
That really stood out to me in the survey. Nearly 40% of respondents said that they don't care how much debt their partner has of any kind. I found that kind of shocking because if I was dating someone and I found out they had a huge amount of debt due to discretionary spending, that would certainly make me question things.
Me too, but I think what I'd also be looking for in a potential partner is what sort of plan they had for dealing with their debt. If they're paying it off, if they're not asking to borrow money from me, I mean, I would consider that a green flag or maybe at least a beige one.
Yeah, I like that Sarah Beige flag. I think for me, I would be trying to gauge their money value. So are they in the trenches of their financial trauma? Also, do they have a basic understanding of their financial snapshot, like where their debt fits into that? And also, like you said, Sarah, a goal for getting out of debt. So for me, it would also be about what their expectations are for me.
Are they expecting me to pay their debt off or contribute to it? I think those are some factors that would matter.
And context is really important here too. If someone has a bunch of medical debt or student loans, I think that's easier to sympathize with because our educational and medical systems can sometimes force people into debt just to get by or to get ahead.
Absolutely. And because I'm a little empathetic, I think that would be a soft spot for me for sure. But beyond debt, what did this study have to say about how people weigh the financial management of a potential spouse?
85% of Americans say that financial responsibility is an important quality in a romantic partner. Hard agree with that, of course. I'm one of the 85% for sure.
Yes, I sign on to that.
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Chapter 4: How can you improve your financial appeal in relationships?
What does that mean? What is financial responsibility in this context? So that includes things like living within your means, saving toward your goals, investing for the future. If you put it another way, few people are attracted to overgrown children who can't handle the logistics of their own lives.
Go figure.
Yeah, if that sounds pretty harsh, well, maybe this is a wake up call for some of you out there who can't handle the financial logistics of your own lives.
I am seconding that and I had an ex who had this exact problem and it's one of the reasons he is an ex. So how can people maybe make themselves a little more financially appealing to a partner, Sarah?
Well, as we've said, the fact that you're in debt for any reason is likely not going to hurt your dating prospects, which is a good thing because, like we also talked about, there are a lot of reasons why people end up in debt that have absolutely nothing to do with their character. But prospective partners like to see progress on financial goals. Are you making regular payments towards your debt?
Are you adjusting your spending habits to free up more of your cash every month to pay off your debt more aggressively? Those types of actions communicate to other people that you're not sticking your head in the sand. You are addressing your debt head on.
I also want to throw out there that sometimes debt can be a green flag. Like I, for one, have hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt with my mortgage. That's a good kind of debt that you would want to see someone have, especially if it's affordable in their budget. But the study mentioned some entertaining red flags and some green flags that people should consider in a potential partner.
Can you talk us through those, Sarah?
Yeah, and just because the red flags are entertaining from the outside, just when you're living it, it's not great.
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Chapter 5: What are key retirement planning strategies for business owners?
And if they lie to you, it could actually be because they're a dishonest person, but it could also be because you can't handle the truth and they're afraid to tell you the truth.
And this goes for all parts of a relationship beyond just money management, too. Remember that you and your partner are on the same team and do what you can to support each other.
Exactly. I feel like it's always so romantic to me when I hear about couples who maybe started off with, I don't know, $200,000 debt and then they worked as a team and paid it down together. So I think that's a huge part of love too, like working towards goals together.
With that said, we are about to turn to this episode's money question where Sean and Sarah talk with a listener about how they can plan for their dream retirement.
But before we get into that, we are at one of my favorite parts of the show, the part where we ask you to take a second and think about where you need some guidance with your money.
And I'm betting a lot of you have received your W-2s or 1099s and other tax documents in the mail. And you're starting to wonder about filing your taxes this year. Hmm, talking to myself. We're working on an episode all about your tax questions, so let us know where you need help. Leave us a voicemail or text us on the Nerd Hotline at 901-730-6373. That's 901-730-NERD.
Or you can pop us an email at podcast at nerdwallet.com.
And a reminder that one of our goals on Smart Money this year is to talk with more of you live on the podcast to help you with your money questions. So if you want to hang out with Elizabeth and me for a bit and get some nerdy wisdom, let us know. One more time, leave us a voicemail or text us on the nerd hotline at 901-730-6373. That's 901-730-NERD or email us at podcast at nerdwallet.com.
All right, let's get to this episode's money question segment where we talk to a listener about their retirement goals. That's up next. Stay with us.
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Chapter 6: How does an organic farmer plan for retirement?
Again, explore the Range Rover Sport at LandRoverUSA.com. We're back and answering your money questions to help you make smarter financial decisions. On this episode, we're joined by Smart Money listener Tenzin, an organic produce farmer, with some questions about how to plan their retirement and manage their business. Tenzin, welcome to Smart Money. TENZIN ZHANG Thank you. Glad to be here.
Before we get started, I just want to remind you that everything we talk about today is just for educational purposes and is not specific financial advice. And while Sean is a CFP, he's not your CFP. So does that sound good?
Definitely.
All right, great.
So to start, Tenzin, tell us a little bit about your life personally and financially. A lot of it revolves around the farm with your wife, right?
Yeah, that's correct. That's our primary and basically only source of income. We are both all in on the farm. As you might guess, it's a highly variable source of income. It changes a lot throughout the season. It changes a lot season to season.
And then there's a lot of little decisions made along the way that can multiply or ripple out and make a big difference throughout the course of any given season.
Tell us a little bit about the farm itself. So before we get into all the money stuff, give us an idea of your work.
We run about a 10 acre vegetable farm in north central Wisconsin. We have a very short manic growing season. So there's a high level of intensity. We've got about five employees on the farm. It's just kind of go, go, go between last frost of the spring and the first frost of the fall.
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