Dan Harris, author of 10% Happier, joins Anthony and Scott to discuss the rising tide of anxiety among young men and offers practical mindfulness techniques and insights on navigating modern challenges as masculinity is redefined. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices
Chapter 1: What challenges are young men facing today?
Welcome to Lost Boys. In this podcast, my friend Professor Scott Galloway and I dig into the unique challenges young men are facing today and what we can do about it. In this episode, Scott and I talk with Dan Harris, the journalist and author of the bestselling book, 10% Happier. Dan is a smart guy who has put a lot of thought into how we can all manage the stress and anxiety in our lives.
Something that's very important for young men today. We talk about the hit Netflix series everyone is talking about, Adolescence. And we get some great advice from Dan on how young men and all of us can be more socially engaged. Here's my conversation with Scott Galloway and Dan Harris. So joining us now on Lost Boys is Dan Harris. He's a former co-anchor of ABC's Nightline.
He's also on the weekend edition of Good Morning America on ABC News. He spent over two decades reporting on major national and international events. A pivotal moment in his career was an on-air panic attack in 2004 that prompted him to embark on a journey of self-discovery, leading him to become a vocal advocate for meditation and mindfulness, particularly for skeptics of those things.
Chapter 2: How did Dan Harris's panic attack change his life?
He's the author of the bestselling book, 10% Happier. How I Tamed the Voice in My Head, Reduce Stress Without Losing My Edge. I must say to Dan and Scott, I have sent that book out to probably 50 people, Dan. I'm a huge fan of that book. Thank you. And found self-help that really works, a true story. And he's also got an application out there, 10% Happier Meditation app and podcast.
So thank you for joining us, Dan. The topics, as I know Barbara has briefed you on, is our situation with America's men, sort of the 18 to 35-year-old who's gone wayward. Scott's got wonderful statistics on this. But before I bring you in, I just want to go to Scott for a second about the challenges that young men are facing.
uh everyone is talking about it scott i i give you a lot of credit for this because you've been chipping away at this and now i'm starting to see a mushroom cloud of activity come out from you dropping the first bombs i guess before we go to dan are we at an inflection point sir in terms of this issue well that's a generous thing to say but yeah and the
I first brought this up five years ago and immediately the gag reflex was you're a misogynist because all the people on this pod have had so much unfair advantage for so long that there was a natural resistance to talking about the struggles of young men because let's be honest, we had a 3,000 year head start.
From 1945 to the next 60, 70 years, the greatest prosperity ever recognized in the modern economy was recognized in the US and it was sequestered even further. All of that prosperity was crowded into the 30% of Americans that had pale skin and outdoor plumbing. So naturally people just weren't that empathetic. The conversation has changed so dramatically because the evidence
Four out of five suicides are male, 12 times more likely to be incarcerated, three times more likely to be homeless or addicted. The data is so overwhelming. And the cohort I credit with that pivot in the conversation, the dialogue, it can be described in one word, mothers. Feminists, right wing, left wing, all have come together and said, something is going on with my son.
And so the conversation has become a lot more productive. The difference between me going on a podcast and talking about this issue five years ago in the comments and the difference now is night and day. So I think the dialogue has gotten a lot more productive and I'll use this as a segue to ask Dan a question. Dan, you really have, to a certain extent,
know we never talked about uh cancer and then we started talking about cancer i remember when my mom got breast cancer i couldn't talk to my friends about it because it was embarrassing and then we started talking about cancer openly and it's been a huge unlock and i think in the last 20 years we've started talking about mental illness and it's been a huge unlock and one of the taboos that i think you have played a role in unlocking is men talking about anxiety
Because for a man to admit that he was having a panic attack made you less masculine, made you less strong. And you have done that. And the numbers, one in seven teens globally claim they have severe mental illness. People are having panic attacks. Without getting into details, I have someone in my life that is struggling with anxiety and panic attacks.
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Chapter 3: What role does social connection play in mental health?
I worry about that. You know, it's interesting. My own life, you know, I look at the culture and I see many examples of toxic masculinity. I don't love that phrase because I do feel like it has been weaponized a little bit to... make men feel bad about being men. So I think it's accurate. There is for sure a version of masculinity that is quite toxic.
So it's technically an accurate term, but sometimes there's something about the dialogue that has, I think, made it harder to reach men because we've somehow sent the signal either explicitly or implicitly that you're wrong or bad for just having a penis. And so I do want to just...
signal that I'm not trying to be overly, and this is another word that I worry about using, but overly woke here when I talk about toxic masculinity. I do see many, many avatars of unhealthy masculinity in the culture, the Tates, for example. But in my own life, I don't know if you guys know Strauss Zelnick, the very successful businessman. Sorry, were you going to say something?
I'm just going to let you know, Dan Strauss is a very close personal friend of mine for 25 years.
OK, so you and I are connected by one degree of separation. Strauss is a very good friend of mine for about a decade. And I've been recently doing his work. He work out. He's the guy's almost 68. He's in incredible shape for any age. And he works out every day. He's got this thing called the program. And a lot of young men are in the program. And I go once in a while. And. meeting young men.
And these are like finance bros.
Let me stop you for a second, Dan. So Scott, do you know Strauss? If you don't know Strauss, he's Take-Two Entertainment. I do. Okay, good. And he wrote a great book on this, by the way, on longevity, which I'd like to say that- It's called Ageless Fitness. Exactly. I'd like to say that I adopted some of it, but I'm still eating junk food and fast food. But go ahead, Dan.
You know, Strauss is not overly like a finger wagging about like eating cookies. He eats cookies. He eats more just like get get active, which I think is another, you know, get physically active. I think this is another great piece of advice for young men because it does put you in contact with other other people if you're doing it, you know, in a in a group setting.
And it also is great for your mental health. But having said that, through the program, I've met a lot of young finance bros, guys who, when I was growing up, would have had a massive amount of casual misogyny just baked into their everyday conversation. And the young men I'm meeting are much more sensitive. And that may... you know, sensitive in a good way.
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Chapter 4: How can young men address feelings of loneliness and anxiety?
Well, one thing to say is if you're freaking out about exposing yourself to social situations and you're you're young um recognize that this is not your fault you're not first of all you're not alone you're not like uniquely dysfunctional this is very very common and it's my generation our generation that created a world for you where you got insufficient training in how to do this in part
This is massively exacerbated by COVID, but but in part because we as grownups didn't really understand that we we needed we started helicopter parenting and we needed to create a world for you where you're out there. bumping up against other kids and getting scrapes and getting insults and learning how to build up your psychological immunity. And that's on us.
And so what I want to first remove, hopefully, is the shame. And then second, and this goes to masculinity, and I know this is something you think about a lot, Scott. It's like rethinking what is masculinity? Strength is part of it, but what is real strength?
Real strength, I like in Buddhism, and I try to practice Buddhism, that one of the ancient symbols is a lion, which is a great symbol of ferocity, but it has nothing to do with dominance. It has to do with the courage to face your own shit.
to face your own mind and that is what is required in order to do the work to take the risk to go out into social situations which is going to make you uncomfortable to make you gulp for air possibly to provoke a starburst of self-critical thoughts in your mind but that is courage And how do you overcome fear? You face it in manageable little steps. So take a little risk.
divulge something personal to somebody you trust at work and see what happens. Go to the party that you otherwise wouldn't go to, but tell yourself you only have to go for five minutes. Baby steps of facing what scares you, and over time, it won't scare you as much. That is real baller courage.
Dan, you write beautifully about this. Give us a few examples of how you've done this in your own life.
Well, I still have panic attacks. Um, um, right now, the big place of panic for me is claustrophobia. So I've had a lot of trouble over the last couple of years on elevators and airplanes. I, to a certain extent, blame COVID for this because when COVID hit, we, I, I moved to the suburbs. I wasn't in the city. I wasn't on elevators anymore and I wasn't flying.
And then when I went back to all of that, um, uh, I really started to struggle and panic feeds on itself. And so the only remedy is to face it, to actually put yourself in the situation that scares you. So I would literally ride elevators at the Westchester Mall with my shrink.
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Chapter 5: What are practical mindfulness techniques for managing stress?
Chapter 6: How does toxic masculinity affect young men today?
And then when I went back to all of that, um, uh, I really started to struggle and panic feeds on itself. And so the only remedy is to face it, to actually put yourself in the situation that scares you. So I would literally ride elevators at the Westchester Mall with my shrink.
uh who would help me you know see to work with cognitive behavioral therapy which is a psychological term of art to face what was scaring me to learn how to engage in supportive self-talk to talk myself through it and uh it really helped and and by the way if you We can go wherever you want here.
But if you want a very specific answer to Scott's question earlier about cognitive behavioral therapy techniques to work yourself through the shit that scares you, whether it's social or anything else, I'm happy to talk about that because there's a lot to say there.
Talk about it if you don't mind.
We many of us believe that we have to have an inner drill sergeant in order to succeed. If somebody else talked to us the way we talk to ourselves, we would punch that other person in the face. And we believe, consciously or subconsciously, that we need this inner drill sergeant in order to get anything done. In fact, all the data show that an inner coach
is much more likely to get you to your goals. And this is referred to in the psychological literature as self compassion. So learning to talk to yourself the way you would talk to a good friend, or to your kid or a mentee, There's a ton of data that shows that this is extremely helpful, especially in situations where you're scared.
So you don't, I mean, it's very helpful to go into situations that scare you with a friend. And by the way, I would recommend that. But you can be your own friend in this regard. And it's slightly cheesy, but just learning to talk to yourself this way. And it just as a little technical tip here to use your own name when you're talking to yourself.
So I just say, dude, like, dude, I'm getting on a plane. I'm worried about panicking in front of a bunch of strangers. Dude, like you can. This is just going to be a bunch of physical sensations. Breathlessness. pounding in the chest that you have experienced a million times and you're still alive, you can deal with this.
That ability to talk to yourself that way is a trainable skill for anyone and extremely helpful.
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Chapter 7: What is the importance of volunteering for mental well-being?
Chapter 8: How can society help reduce anxiety among young people?
We many of us believe that we have to have an inner drill sergeant in order to succeed. If somebody else talked to us the way we talk to ourselves, we would punch that other person in the face. And we believe, consciously or subconsciously, that we need this inner drill sergeant in order to get anything done. In fact, all the data show that an inner coach
is much more likely to get you to your goals. And this is referred to in the psychological literature as self compassion. So learning to talk to yourself the way you would talk to a good friend, or to your kid or a mentee, There's a ton of data that shows that this is extremely helpful, especially in situations where you're scared.
So you don't, I mean, it's very helpful to go into situations that scare you with a friend. And by the way, I would recommend that. But you can be your own friend in this regard. And it's slightly cheesy, but just learning to talk to yourself this way. And it just as a little technical tip here to use your own name when you're talking to yourself.
So I just say, dude, like, dude, I'm getting on a plane. I'm worried about panicking in front of a bunch of strangers. Dude, like you can. This is just going to be a bunch of physical sensations. Breathlessness. pounding in the chest that you have experienced a million times and you're still alive, you can deal with this.
That ability to talk to yourself that way is a trainable skill for anyone and extremely helpful.
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