Leap Academy with Ilana Golan
Styling Beyoncé, Cher, and J.Lo: Norma Kamali’s Rise from Losing Her Company to Dressing Icons
Tue, 18 Mar 2025
Norma Kamali built a business with her then-husband, but he controlled the money and decisions and even rehired the woman she had fired. Realizing the partnership was toxic, she walked away with just $98. No company. No safety net. No guarantees. Most people would have crumbled, but Norma reinvented herself. Within months, her bold designs took off, attracting lifelong, high-profile clients. Five decades later, she is still shaping the industry. In this episode, she joins Ilana to share how she overcame early setbacks, left a toxic partnership, and built lasting success. Norma Kamali is a fashion designer and entrepreneur known for her bold, timeless designs. Her designs have been worn by stars across generations. Always innovating, she recently explored AI, training a model to create designs in her signature style. In this episode, Ilana and Norma will discuss: (00:00) Introduction (01:49) Finding Her Path as a Child (04:09) How Her Mother Shaped Her Ambition (10:33) Discovering a Passion for Drawing (14:41) Pursuing Fashion Illustration (16:42) Walking Out of a Humiliating Job Interview (18:32) How an Airline Job Led Her into Fashion (23:22) Starting a Fashion Business Accidentally (30:48) Marriage, Business, and a Toxic Partnership (36:42) Leaving Her Company with Just $98 (41:50) Rebuilding as Omo Norma Kamali (46:06) Styling Celebrities Across Generations (49:52) Mastering Sales and Its Challenges (54:42) Norma’s Secret to Navigating Fear in Business (56:32) Embracing AI and Future Plans (01:00:28) The Mindset That Turns Failure into Fuel Norma Kamali is a fashion designer and entrepreneur known for her bold, timeless designs. Over the past five decades, she has helped shape fashion, from popularizing shoulder pads in the 1980s to creating iconic pieces like the sleeping bag coat, high-heeled sneakers, and Farrah Fawcett’s red swimsuit. Her designs have been worn by stars across generations. Always innovating, she recently explored AI, training a model to create designs in her signature style. Connect with Norma: Norma’s Website: normakamali.com Norma’s LinkedIn: linkedin.com/company/norma-kamali-inc./ Norma’s Instagram: instagram.com/normakamali Leap Academy: Ready to make the LEAP in your career? There is a NEW way for professionals to Advance Their Careers & Make 5-6 figures of EXTRA INCOME in Record Time. Check out our free training today at leapacademy.com/training
Chapter 1: How did Norma Kamali's childhood shape her future in fashion?
It's really interesting. It's a great question because I actually was just speaking with Twyla Tharp and we were talking about our childhoods. And I remember growing up in Manhattan in a neighborhood with a lot of kids, and we would always be out on the street playing and doing stuff together. And when we didn't have something to do, I felt that I had to come up with something.
So I would make up these games. and make up stuff for everybody to do. And they would ask me, what's next? And I would make up more. And she was saying the same thing, that she would organize these things. And she didn't know why, but she was just organizing them. And I think that for anybody in your audience who is one of these people,
who as a child, and we recognize that it's realizing that it is a childhood action that really identifies the core principle of who a human's going to be or what they're going to do. So I'm still... coming up with games for everybody to play, and she's coming up with things for her dancers to do.
Chapter 2: What role did Norma Kamali's mother play in her ambition?
And we were really laughing about it, but I think that's the best telltale sign as to what your path is going to be, even more than if you know what you're going to be doing. But there's a character trait that obviously is defined very early.
And I love that because success leaves clues. We just need to find the clues, right? And we need to connect those dots and they don't initially connect. And for you, you also went through some things in your family that started shaping you a little bit. Can you share a little bit about how did that all shape you?
One of the things is that I think about is when my parents were divorced, it was very rare that this happened. And I grew up in an Irish Catholic neighborhood, and you might have gathered that I'm not Irish and that we were a little different, but the church was very involved in the neighborhood. So it was a big disgrace and...
My mother really showed great resolve and determination to be a single mom when nobody else was a single mom in the neighborhood or that we knew of. And she just got a job. a simple job in a factory. She had to support us. And I saw this incredible strength to do everything she could for the family, for my brother and myself. And I remember I was around 11. She said to me, Norma,
I want you to keep in mind, you have to be your own person. You have to learn how to support yourself. So the man you marry has to be the man you love, not the man that you want to take care of you. And I did not understand what she was talking about. I was like, okay, mom. Okay. It sounds good. And I thought, I don't know what she's talking about here, but then, oh, okay. I get it.
And it made an impression on me. And I really appreciate that she was so honest with me about the importance of being able to support myself and be independent at the same time.
And I think when she said that, it was very rare. There was something very rare at that time, right? Because to some extent, you did get married in order for somebody to take care of you and you in return have babies, right? Like there was a little bit of that. Am I right? Well, that's what women did.
It was the role that... You raise a family. And now, when I was 11, it was 1956. So put us in context of that time. Nobody had TVs, very few people, and not everybody had telephones. I mean, it's an incredible thing to think of. And my mother is talking to me about being an independent woman. So... Really, we are talking about somebody who is very unique.
And like I said, I didn't know what she was talking about until later on where I could appreciate.
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Chapter 3: How did Norma Kamali transition from illustration to fashion?
You would just think, what is wrong with you? Get over it. And you got over it. And most people got over it. And if you didn't, nobody would attribute it to all of the things we think about now. And I'm wondering if maybe some of that isn't a bad idea because you learn survival skills. And you learn things about yourself when you have to just deal with it. Just deal with it.
Nobody would say, and nobody would complain about it. If you complained, you were like, shut up.
What are you talking about?
So I think the fears, of course, my mother probably, as an adult, had more concerns because could she afford to support two children and have what we needed, not anything more, but just to make sure we had what we needed. We also had a great neighborhood where everybody took care of everyone else. The community idea was very important.
In an Irish neighborhood, there's usually five to ten kids per family. So there was such a camaraderie and community and friendship. one big family, really. We went to camp together. We did everything together. And if my mother wasn't home, somebody else's mother would make sure we had something to eat when we came home from school. My mother would do the same for somebody else's kids.
So New York was an extraordinary place to grow up on the streets, learning about life. And really, I have to say, even though I didn't have a lavish sort of childhood where you had everything you could imagine. We had very little, but we had such a close, bonded family of a community that you can't
Imagine the talk about the strength in that and that you always felt protected by the numbers of people that were looking out for you.
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Chapter 4: How did an airline job lead Norma Kamali to fashion success?
And you talk a little bit about falling in love a little bit was drawing or was art. Were you talented or did you just love it? What was it?
I think I like alone time. I like quiet time. And what I did was, to have that quiet time, I would always have a pencil and paper, and I'd always draw. And I would draw anything. And I would draw dresses. And then I would start to draw things. And I remember one of the first things I drew was this vintage typewriter my mother had. And it was beautiful.
And it was all black and it had these raised lines. letters, and I drew every detail of the typewriter. And it took me some time, and I wanted it to be exact, but it had the beauty of a freehand drawing of something very static. And I remember finishing it and thinking, oh, I want to draw something else. What else? And I would look around. What else can I draw?
I think I drew everything in the apartment that we lived in, literally everything. And if my brother would sit still for a second, I would draw him and say, stop doing that. And I would still keep drawing him. But I found a lot of comfort in drawing because it was always a surprise to see what would happen when I draw something else.
And I did draw a lot of dresses, but I think it had nothing to do with wanting to be a designer. But in the 50s, the clothes of the 50s, you know, as we all know, of these big petticoated skirts and pencil skirts with sweaters. And all the girls that were older that would dress up for their dates or to go to dances that were wearing these clothes were so beautiful.
Irish girls are spectacularly beautiful. And I would draw them and look at their outfits and think, This is so great. The skirt is so full. And I would draw what they were wearing and think, oh, I can't wait until I can go on a date and wear petticoats. And I would wear petticoats to school. And at the time, white bucks were very popular.
And in order to keep white bucks clean, you'd always have this big powder thing to put on the white bucks. So I would go into my classroom. I remember with this big petticoat skirt that was wider than the room between the desks. And I'd walk through and the skirts wouldn't fit through. And then I'd have, you'd see white footprints because I put so much powder on my box that I'd turn around.
I'm like, oh, my God, my footprints are all over it. But that's when I realized that dressing up could be so much fun and wear petticoats and ponytails and sweaters backwards and just be cool. So that was sort of the beginning. So you loved fashion to some extent. I didn't realize that it was fashion. We didn't know about fashion. It wasn't a conversation.
It was, what are the clothes of the time? Don't forget it's the 50s. And the fashion of the 50s was very high elegance or elegance. Paris-type fashion, which we never knew about in our neighborhood, or what movie stars were wearing. And so what the girls in the neighborhood mostly wore was what movie stars were wearing. And that wasn't Paris fashion.
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Chapter 5: How did Norma Kamali start her first fashion store?
I actually had a really good portfolio and I had a lot of support from one of the instructors there who, Anna Ishikawa, who was just unbelievable. She was very strict. She would make everybody cry. But if you got a compliment from her, I remember she complimented my portfolio. She never complimented anybody. She complimented my portfolio. that I was taking for my job interviews.
And there was a white noise. I couldn't even hear anything after that. It was like, what did she say? So I felt confident about my portfolio. And I went on a job interview for fashion illustration at a garment industry company. And It was a situation that was really one about objectifying a young girl coming for a job. And it was humiliating and embarrassing.
Tell us about it, because I think a lot of people are going through some weird things as well.
I think, you know, this first big job interview is important. So you dress appropriately. You make sure that whatever the presentation is, it's really great. And I was very serious about it. And of course, I hear my mother's voice, get a job, get a job, get a job. You better get this job, Norma. And so I walk in and he has his feet up on his desk. He's eating a tuna sandwich.
And he tells me to put my portfolio down and come over to him and turn around for him. I remember I just couldn't hold it in. And I just started crying and running out of the office with my portfolio. Like tripping over myself, basically, and feeling just awful and coming home. And of course, my mother, did you get the job? And I was like, no, mom, I didn't.
And I couldn't even hear what else she was saying. And I remember. The place you would look for a job was the New York Times. So they would have a big classified section. I actually think it should still exist, this, because it was a great way to find a job. And so I was looking at all the jobs and I thought, I really want to travel.
And at the time, working at the airlines like Pan Am and TWA and Northwest Orient, that was really a great job, not as a stewardess, but in the office. And I had zero office skills. I didn't know how to type. Actually, I still don't know how to type. And I got the job and I was shocked that I got it because it was very strict and a difficult interview.
So the next thing I know, I'm sitting in front of a Univac computer and I'm amazed at the information that the computer is presenting, and I thought to myself, whoa, this is really something. So I If you think that's a big leap from my childhood to this UNIVAC computer, and it's still the mid 60s, we're not talking about years ahead.
I spent four years at Northwest Airlines and traveled to London round trip for $29 for the four years. So it was as if I was living in London for that period of time. And that's when, obviously, that was the beginning of a revolution that, starting with baby boomers, changed everything. And fashion changed completely. And I loved it.
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Chapter 6: What challenges did Norma Kamali face in her early business?
So wait, before we go there, so this is incredible. So you land this role that gives you, I guess, very discounted flights, right? Why necessarily London and why basically every year for four years? Why did you decide that London drew you at that level? Well, the first...
I landed in London and somebody at the airline said, they have boarding houses you could stay at for $6 a night in this place called Chelsea. And they gave me the name of a place, so I made a reservation. And Chelsea, at the time, was the very beginning of what would be an incredible area.
It was an artist area that then had these amazing shops that opened and everybody in music and film and everybody would be in Chelsea. And so I found myself by fate in the right place at the right time. And when I walked down the King's Road to see what was going on, it was basically very gray.
very tweed gray, very gray everything, except for this one store that was painted big outside colors, colors, colors, and this music was blaring out of the store. And I believe it was, all you need is love. And that's all I heard. I was like a moth to the light. I was like, oh my God, what's there? And I just was boom, right in there. And I became friends with the people in that place.
And they said, there's this great club we go to on Margaret Street. You have to come with us. I went to the club and it was a place where all of these musicians that were just becoming were there. And it was everybody you could think of that was a British musician or group on the rise. And it started this beautiful adventure for four years. And then the reason I stopped the airline job is because
my business started to really take off. And the airlines saw I was getting press. I had a picture in time.
So let's talk about it. So let's talk about it before we go there. So you have this store. And I think at this point, you basically, roughly at this time, you're married to Eddie, right? Yes. And you open your first store and you're starting to bring clothes from London.
So talk to us a little bit about the early days, because I don't even know if you realize you're starting a business at that level. Like it was just kind of like, let me bring things.
Yeah, it wasn't a conscious plan. I'm going to do this. What I would do was one of the things you learned at the airlines was was how to pack efficiently. And one of the things, one of the tricks is you take let's say a dress, a little Biba dress, and you fold it and then you roll it really tight and you put rubber bands around it.
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