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Interesting Times with Ross Douthat

Abolish the Senate. End the Electoral College. Pack the Court.

14 Aug 2025

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For Democrats, President Trump’s victories have revealed the antidemocratic flaws at the core of our government. But could it be an opening for a constitutional revolution as the party searches for its next leader?This week, Ross explores what that revolution would entail with Osita Nwanevu, the author of the book, “The Right of the People: Democracy and the Case for a New American Founding.”3:46 - What's wrong with our democracy? 9:07 - Our undemocratic founding 17:00 - The case for more U.S. states and a new constitution23:52 - Where economic reform fits into this problem 29:26 - Does Trump represent the will of the people?37:17 - What Trump’s presidency says about democracy40:30 - The elusive Bernie Sanders moment 46:29 - The mystical element of our politicsThoughts? Email us at [email protected]. Please subscribe to our YouTube Channel, Interesting Times with Ross Douthat.A full transcript of this episode is available on the Times website. Unlock full access to New York Times podcasts and explore everything from politics to pop culture. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.

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