Last week on the show, we looked at the science of conversation, and how even ordinary chats can involve a delicate dance of coordination. This week, we explore the discussions we all dread: the tough ones. Telling someone they treated us poorly. Demanding a raise. Taking away an elderly relative's car keys. We talk with Alison Wood Brooks about what makes difficult conversations difficult, and a series of psychological techniques to help you navigate them.If you missed part one of our conversation with Alison, be sure to check it out! It's titled "We Need to Talk." Shankar also mentioned our episode with Julia Minson, in which we discuss how to keep conflicts from spiraling. You can find that conversation here.
What makes difficult conversations so challenging?
Or, hey, I love your haircut. can feel sort of deeply threatening to people if they're imagining that this question is going to lead to something very sensitive about their identity or where they're from or their race or their gender or their, you know, sexual orientation. And so what we talk about in my class is becoming a little bit more aware of differences at every layer of the earth.
So at the surface where our words, are we literally using the same, the right words? Are we understanding each other and what we mean when we're using certain words? And often moments of difficulty come from like, oh, we're just misunderstanding each other. We're using the same word to mean different things or we're not talking about the same thing.
Often these differences in our emotions cause problems. I want to go have fun. You actually want to have a deep conversation. We have different motives. And then, of course, differences in our identities. And I think most... of the most difficult moments in conversation come from the moments when you poke an invisible barb into somebody's identity.
And sometimes you realize when it's happened and sometimes you don't. It goes back to the story of this LGBTQ student who came and talked to me about making an insensitive comment, a heteronormative comment in class. I poked an invisible barb into an important part of who he is and he didn't feel seen and acknowledged. and valued and worthy of care.
And so anytime that we make our conversation partner feel like we don't understand them, we don't see them, and we are not making them feel worthy of care, it's going to cause problems.
When you were a college student, Allison, you and your fellow students found yourselves in opposition to an administrator. The students saw this administrator as an enforcer, and they thought that she was heavy-handed. They often clashed with her. You decided to try another approach. Can you tell me what happened?
So I was a member of a club, a social club, when I was an undergrad. And there was a woman there whose full-time job it was to take care of this beautiful property and to keep all the students who hung out there and ate their meals there to keep them safe. And historically, the student members of the club had this really confrontational sort of oppositional relationship with this house manager.
And I remember watching this oppositional dynamic unfold, and it really made me feel not only uncomfortable, but also I started to feel like this isn't serving the students well either because it puts her in this enforcer position, in this oppositional position. She's not going to give us the things that we want.
And so when I became the sort of vice president of this club, I thought, I'm going to try and convince my fellow students, the fellow leaders of the club, and this woman, let's reposition ourselves as allies. Like, why don't we try and work together? And so first I had to convince the other students that this was a good approach.
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