Menu
Sign In Pricing Add Podcast
Podcast Image

Freakonomics Radio

627. Sludge, Part 1: The World Is Drowning in It

28 Mar 2025

Description

Insurance forms that make no sense. Subscriptions that can’t be cancelled. A never-ending blizzard of automated notifications. Where does all this sludge come from — and how much is it costing us? (Part one of a two-part series.) SOURCES:Benjamin Handel, professor of economics at UC Berkeley.Neale Mahoney, professor of economics at Stanford University.Richard Thaler, professor of economics at The University of Chicago. RESOURCES:"Selling Subscriptions," by Liran Einav, Ben Klopack, and Neale Mahoney (Stanford University, 2023)."The ‘Enshittification’ of TikTok," by Cory Doctorow (WIRED, 2023)."Dominated Options in Health Insurance Plans," by Chenyuan Liu and Justin Sydnor (American Economic Journal: Economic Policy, 2022).Nudge (The Final Edition), by Richard Thaler and Cass Sunstein (2021)."Frictions or Mental Gaps: What’s Behind the Information We (Don’t) Use and When Do We Care?" by Benjamin Handel and Joshua Schwartzstein (Journal of Economic Perspectives, 2018)."Adverse Selection and Switching Costs in Health Insurance Markets: When Nudging Hurts," by Benjamin Handel (National Bureau of Economic Research, 2011). EXTRAS:"People Aren’t Dumb. The World Is Hard. (Update)" by Freakonomics Radio (2024)."All You Need is Nudge," by Freakonomics Radio (2021)."How to Fix the Hot Mess of U.S. Healthcare," by Freakonomics Radio (2021)."Should We Really Behave Like Economists Say We Do?" by Freakonomics Radio (2015).

Audio
Transcription

Full Episode

4.764 - 26.602 Stephen Dubner

I have a story to tell you, and I'm curious if anything like this has ever happened to you. I recently got a letter from the Department of Motor Vehicles saying it's time to renew my driver's license. This is a letter that no one looks forward to receiving. In many places, the DMV is famously hard to deal with. Long lines, confusing protocols, et cetera, et cetera.

0

26.802 - 44.628 Stephen Dubner

But as I read the letter, I see there is a loophole that if you are a member of AAA, the American Automobile Association, which I happen to be, then you can renew your license at their office. And even better, you can set up an appointment ahead of time. That was exciting.

0

44.868 - 66.779 Stephen Dubner

So I made my appointment online, put it in my calendar, got all my documents together, and I showed up on the right day, the right time, and found, to my surprise, a long line of people waiting for what looked to be just two or three clerks. I asked a couple people online what time their appointments were for, and they said they didn't have appointments. They had just walked in.

0

67.08 - 87.879 Stephen Dubner

And so I, being an optimist, I thought maybe there's a separate line for appointments. So I asked around and one helpful AAA employee told me that, no, the line is the line, is how he put it. And how long do you think that line will take? I asked. Oh, probably just two hours, maybe three, he said.

0

89.025 - 106.799 Stephen Dubner

I had pictured myself buzzing in with my appointment being done in 15 minutes, maybe 30, even an hour would have been okay, but two hours or three, that I could not swing. So the next time you hear about a guy being arrested for driving with an expired license, that will be me.

107.64 - 127.253 Stephen Dubner

What happened at AAA surprised me, especially because after I'd made my appointment, I received a couple emails confirming it and asking me to let them know if I'd be late. So I really thought I had an appointment, the way the word is commonly used. But I realize now that their definition and mine were not the same.

128.034 - 154.571 Stephen Dubner

Either that or I had simply run into a situation where a seemingly simple thing is made complicated or slow or frustrating. Has this sort of thing ever happened to you? Of course it has. It happens all the time, and it comes in many flavors. For instance, when it takes 30 seconds to sign up for some subscription service and then forever to cancel it.

155.511 - 180.334 Stephen Dubner

Or when you fill out some massive government form online, but that one data field won't accept your answer, and when you try to hit submit, the whole thing freezes. Or when your insurance company sends you a menu of health care plans and you literally cannot understand the difference between the options or how much they will actually cost. There is a word for this kind of thing.

181.015 - 184.218 Listener Testimonial 1

This is my example of sludge.

Comments

There are no comments yet.

Please log in to write the first comment.