Menu
Sign In Pricing Add Podcast
Podcast Image

Freakonomics Radio

625. The Biden Policy That Trump Hasn’t Touched

07 Mar 2025

Description

Lina Khan, the youngest F.T.C. chair in history, reset U.S. antitrust policy by thwarting mega-mergers and other monopolistic behavior. This earned her enemies in some places, and big fans in others — including the Trump administration. Stephen Dubner speaks with Khan about her tactics, her track record, and her future. SOURCES:Lina Khan, former commissioner of the Federal Trade Commission and professor of law at Columbia Law School. RESOURCES:"Merger Guidelines" (U.S. Department of Justice and the Federal Trade Commission, 2023)."The Rise of Market Power and the Macroeconomic Implications," by Jan De Loecker, Jan Eeckhout, and Gabriel Unger (National Bureau of Economic Research, 2019)."US Antitrust Law and Policy in Historical Perspective," by Laura Phillips Sawyer (Harvard Business School, 2019).The Curse of Bigness: Antitrust in the New Gilded Age, by Tim Wu (2018)."Amazon’s Antitrust Paradox," by Lina Khan (Yale Law Journal, 2017)."A Tempest In a Coffee Shop," by Tanya Mohn (New York Times, 2004). EXTRAS:"The Economics of Eyeglasses," by Freakonomics Radio (2024)."Should You Trust Private Equity to Take Care of Your Dog?" by Freakonomics Radio (2023)."Are Private Equity Firms Plundering the U.S. Economy?" by Freakonomics Radio (2023)."Is the U.S. Really Less Corrupt Than China — and How About Russia? (Update)" by Freakonomics Radio (2022).

Audio
Transcription

Full Episode

4.505 - 20.658 Stephen Dubner

Lina Khan was just 32 years old when Joe Biden appointed her to lead the Federal Trade Commission in 2021. She became the youngest FTC chair in history, and this agency goes back to 1914. Khan was also considered one of the most progressive chairs in FTC history.

0

21.298 - 43.251 Stephen Dubner

While she was still in law school, Kahn published a journal article called Amazon's Antitrust Paradox, which went on to become famous and which painted a picture of capitalism gone wild, where too many firms have become too big and too powerful, posing a threat not just to consumers and employees, but to the economy itself and maybe even to democracy.

0

44.171 - 66.342 Stephen Dubner

One of the signature achievements of her FTC term done in collaboration with the Department of Justice was an updated set of the government's merger guidelines. This is a 50 page blueprint for pushing back against over consolidation, for limiting both horizontal and vertical acquisitions, and for making the economy more resilient by reducing corporate power.

0

67.242 - 90.231 Stephen Dubner

These are ideas we have dug into repeatedly on Freakonomics Radio. We have done episodes about consolidation in the eyeglass industry, in the pet care and dialysis industries. We made an episode called Are Private Equity Firms Plundering the U.S. Economy?, Now, with Donald Trump back in the White House, Lena Kahn is, of course, gone, replaced by a Republican chair, Andrew Ferguson.

0

90.851 - 114.749 Stephen Dubner

And the Trump administration has been moving quickly to undo or wipe out any number of Biden administration policies. But not those merger guidelines. They are being retained and embraced by the Trump administration. Here's how one former Biden administration official put it to me. It's like being in your house when a tornado comes and wipes out everybody's house except for yours.

116.038 - 132.246 Stephen Dubner

You might call this the Lena Kahn paradox. And how does Kahn herself feel about this paradox? Based on the conversation you are about to hear, I would put it this way. When it comes to antitrust policy, Kahn doesn't care who gets it done as long as it gets done.

132.887 - 136.509 Lina Khan

I view the stakes here as being existential for our country.

138.009 - 142.752 Stephen Dubner

Today on Freakonomics Radio, we review Lena Kahn's FTC track record.

143.484 - 152.15 Lina Khan

If you tally up our wins and losses, we have done better than prior administrations, even while taking bigger shots and putting together more ambitious cases.

Comments

There are no comments yet.

Please log in to write the first comment.