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Freakonomics Radio

622. Why Does Everyone Hate Rats?

14 Feb 2025

Description

New York City’s mayor calls them “public enemy number one.” History books say they caused the Black Death — although recent scientific evidence disputes that claim. So is the rat a scapegoat? And what does our rat hatred say about us? (Part one of a three-part series.) SOURCES:Bethany Brookshire, author of Pests: How Humans Create Animal Villains.Kathy Corradi, director of rodent mitigation for New York City.Ed Glaeser, professor of economics at Harvard University.Nils Stenseth, professor of ecology and evolution at the University of Oslo. RESOURCES:"On Patrol With the Rat Czar," by Mark Chiusano (Intelligencer, 2024)."How Rats Took Over North America," by Allison Parshall (Scientific American, 2024)."Where Are the Rats in New York City," by Matt Yan (New York Times, 2024)."Pests: How Humans Create Animal Villains" by Bethany Brookshire (2023)."Human ectoparasites and the spread of plague in Europe during the Second Pandemic," by Nils Stenseth, Katharine Dean, Fabienne Krauer, Lars Walløe, Ole Christian Lingjærde, Barbara Bramanti, and Boris Schmid (Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, 2018). EXTRAS:"Freakonomics Radio Live: 'Jesus Could Have Been a Pigeon.'" by Freakonomics Radio (2018).

Audio
Transcription

Full Episode

3.919 - 26.336 Stephen Dubner

Hey there, Steven Dubner. This year will mark a pair of anniversaries for us. And even though I ignore most anniversaries, these two have got their hooks in me. It has been 20 years since Steve Levitt and I published Freakonomics. And it's been 15 years since I started Freakonomics Radio. So we are thinking about making some kind of anniversary episode.

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26.496 - 49.052 Stephen Dubner

And I want to know if you have anything to share. Maybe it's a story about how you were influenced or inspired by something from Freakonomics. Maybe it's some kind of memory or coincidence that you'd like to tell us about. Whatever it is, send us an email or a voice memo, whichever you prefer. Our address is radio at Freakonomics.com. Thanks in advance for that.

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49.272 - 77.205 Stephen Dubner

And as always, thanks for listening. In the fall of 2022, a new job listing was posted on a New York City government website. The ideal candidate, the listing read, is highly motivated and somewhat bloodthirsty, determined to look at all solutions from various angles, including data collection, technology innovation and wholesale slaughter.

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78.234 - 84.78 Stephen Dubner

And what kind of government job requires wholesale slaughter? Here is the man responsible for this listing.

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85.5 - 104.877 Eric Adams

Rats do something to traumatize you, and I hate rats. That is Eric Adams, the mayor of New York City. If you walk down the block and a rat runs across your foot, you never forget it. Every time you walk down that block, you relive that.

106.584 - 126.354 Stephen Dubner

As you may have heard, Adams was indicted last year on five federal criminal charges, including bribery and wire fraud. Although in a remarkable departure from legal precedent, the Trump administration Justice Department just ordered those charges dismissed. Through it all, the mayor's anti-rat fervor has been undiminished.

127.057 - 137.568 Eric Adams

Fighting crime, fighting inequality, fighting rats. Public enemy number one, many of you don't know, are rats. If you're not scared of rats, you are really my hero.

138.85 - 147.359 Stephen Dubner

And that job that was posted on NYC.gov, that was Eric Adams searching for his hero, who turned out to be this person.

148.689 - 152.972 Kathy Corradi

I was certainly taken aback. I mean, the job posting itself got a lot of fanfare.

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