Fantasy Footballers - Fantasy Football Podcast
The TRUTH: Top 10 TEs + SB Lineups, Kupp of Sadness - Fantasy Football Podcast for 2/6
Thu, 06 Feb 2025
The final TRUTH episode of the year! On today’s fantasy football podcast, a deep dive look at the TE position! Consistency scores, boom/bust percentages, and tons more. Who will be a value pick in 2025 fantasy football drafts? Manage your redraft, keeper, and dynasty fantasy football teams with the #1 fantasy football podcast. -- Fantasy Football Podcast for February 6th, 2025. Connect with the show: Subscribe on YouTube Visit us on the Web Support the Show Follow on X Follow on Instagram Join our Discord Check out today's sponsors: Fantasy Faceoff presented by DraftKings Sportsbook Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
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Welcome to the Fantasy Footballers Podcast with your hosts, Andy Holloway, Jason Moore, and Mike Wright.
Welcome in.
Everyone's here today.
Thursday, February 6th. Last show before the Super Bowl. So we can get our thoughts in about that. We were just talking today about how we were at the Super Bowl the last time that the Chiefs and Eagles squared off. It was out here in Phoenix. Actually, Glendale. But it was exciting at the time.
Even before the game. The game was awesome. But before the game, when we were talking this week of it's Chiefs. It's Eagles. These two awesome offenses. These two great quarterbacks. I mean, it was like a dream come true matchup. And now just a few years later, it's Chiefs versus Eagles. And I'm like, oh, that sucks.
Yeah, I mean, I don't know if we speak for everybody on that. Obviously, we don't speak for Eagles and Chiefs fans. Oh, of course not. But, like, I have found myself slightly looking forward to it more than I was at the beginning of the week. And, you know, the storyline, Saquon, the birthday, the opportunity with the just what an unreal season that would be to leave New York and win a Super Bowl.
You got the three-peat, which good news. Good news, NFL. They've got a license now. They've negotiated with Pat Riley. Oh, they did. They worked out a deal to be able to use the term three-peat in the event that the Chiefs win. Wow. Pat Riley owns those words. Yeah, that's smart. We've got to get four-peat right now. Does anybody have four-peat?
We don't, but we did.
What about four score?
They're going to try to say that, aren't they? We did learn a new word that involves three. Jason, you don't remember your word?
Oh, I do. I do, absolutely, because it's specific to the tight end episode. We're going to talk about the percentiles and how they come, and they're going to be broken into tertiles. So that's the word we learned. That's English. That's real. It's real. I'm not saying something foolish or stupid. No. I'm talking nice math words like tertile. How did we stumble into this?
Because I was like- Quartiles.
A quartile.
We all know like, oh, you're in the upper quartile, so that means you're in the upper fourth. And I was like, what's the same thing for three? And we, you know, is it the third? You don't hear that very often. No, because it's tertile. Sounds like it's either got a shell or you're taking a dump. Yeah, it's something in between.
It's tertile time. Yeah, so you can be in the upper tertile of something.
Of course. Or the bottom tertile. If you're in the bottom tertile, you're in the bowl.
Hey, we're back. We're back. Yeah, we've got the final truth episode today, the tight end truth. Super Bowl this Sunday. If you've been with the show for a while, you know what that means. That means Super Bowl Sunday is your first opportunity to preorder the 2025 Ultimate Draft Kit, the UDK Plus. We do a very special promotion that launches on Super Bowl Sunday.
UltimateDraftKit.com if you pick it up before March 1st. Starting Sunday, you get a chance to win a Listener League spot. You get the lowest possible price. We're keeping the price the exact same this year. You get access to the Dynasty Pass with the UDK+.
The Dynasty Pass, when it launches on Super Bowl Sunday in four days, it will have all of our Dynasty startup rankings, all of our rookie rankings, our initial passer of everything. Obviously, those will change. More players will be added in. We'll have several updates post-Combine, post-NFL draft. But it's good to start early and get to know these players' names. All that will be in the UDK Plus.
It's launching so soon. Yeah, Sunday. Go get in there. And if you are already an Ultimate Foot Clan member, you got nothing to do but log on and use the content because you already have access. You won. Yeah, you already won the prize.
And you're already entered into the Listener League entry.
Yep, the chance to come and play with us next year. So that is BigTimeUltimateDraftKid.com. Go check that out. We do have a little bit of news, a couple of topics, one major topic we want to talk about.
News and notes from around the league.
Well, a friend of the show, Cooper Kopp, announced on social media that the Rams are looking to trade him. He turns 32 in June. He disappeared from the second half.
Yeah, the target pie.
It wasn't the whole year. It was the final tertile of the season, really.
The turd tertile. The turd tertile, yeah.
For him, it was a turd tile.
Yes. I've never seen anything like this that I can remember where a player announces that the team will be seeking a trade. I kind of like him taking control of it. Oh, it's great. I don't blame him for doing that. He even came out in his social media post and said he disagrees with their decision. He expects to add some quality football. And honestly, I think he will be an...
an important piece to a passing game next year in the NFL. I'm not saying he's going to be a fantasy sensation for being a wide receiver one by any means, but we saw this with Adam Thielen.
I was going to say, you can go Thielen somewhere. Exactly. But Thielen was a free agent, right? Right.
He was a free agent, but he was older and changed teams because the team had kind of moved on from him and said they were not going to give him that contract. I think he was 32 when he moved. and went and was pretty valuable for the Carolina Panthers. So I could see that happening with Cooper Cup. But, you know, usually, like, Miles Garrett comes out and says, I'm requesting a trade.
Or the team lets people know, like, you know, we will be looking for a trade. But this was the first time I could remember a player coming out and saying, hey, breaking news, the team wants to trade me.
From week 15 through the playoffs, Cup had an 11% target share and averaged 29 yards a game.
Yeah.
So, you know, in that regard, That's not going to make a team excited like they might have been five games before. But he did come out on Twitter and say that the team will be working with me and my family to find the right place to continue competing for championships. I don't agree with the decision and always believed it was going to begin and end in L.A.
I saw Freezing Cold Takes found a nice... Tweet from the Rams organization.
Oh, no.
That showed a picture of Cooper Cup and Puka Nakua. And, you know, it only comes as a package deal. Only comes as a package set. They're breaking up the set. Let me, you know. Can be sold individually. Apparently they can. Jordan Whittington.
Yep, I was going to bring him up.
Can we talk about, I mean, this is a fantasy football show. Cooper Cupp, yes, he might find, that'll come with the quarterback to me. If he finds a destination where you've got a quarterback, it's Kansas City, they lose T. Higgins and he goes to Cincinnati, something like that would really excite me. But what about the Rams, whose offense you already know is going to be very proficient?
You know Puka Nakua is the guy. But what about Jordan Whittington? I just saw today, why is his name escaping me? One of their other wide receivers. Demarcus Robinson? Keep going. 2-2. 2-2. He's going to be gone. So he was a free agent. He's not coming back. So a lot of opportunity.
Yeah, so Whittington last year was a sixth-round pick. He had a good training camp. He was one of those players where the buzz, like the drumbeat, got louder, and then he had a pretty good performance in the preseason. So he was a player that was – I mean, he's a sixth-round wide receiver who was now on the radar for the Dynasty community.
And then he had a couple opportunities, you know, like week four and five, where he actually played the full allotment of snaps, 97% and 92%. Six for 62 in one of them, seven for 89 in the other one. This is, like, this is by no means a declaration that Jordan Whittington, that's his job for sure.
But with the depth chart the way it is, Whittington feels like the most natural to fill in, as in Cooper Cup's role. Yeah. So he's an exciting player that I can't imagine he's on waiver wires or anything like that for Dynasty, but he could be someone that you take a little bit of a flyer on because the return. Like trade a third for him right now. I have Whittington.
You won't get that after this news. You're not going to get it done for a three. So you'd be having to pay. He's more of a, if you're making a trade with a team that has Whittington, Like, oh, let's get him. Let's just toss J-Dubs in this trade here.
Those breakout weeks, they were without Cooper Cup, which is important to know because obviously he's gone. However, they were also without Puka Nakua. During those weeks, three through seven, those are the weeks that Cooper Cup missed. The target share, Tutu Atwell was the highest at 25%. He's going to be gone. Jordan Whittington was the next highest at 18% in the very beginning of his career.
For which? For the... For weeks three through seven.
Oh, you're kidding. I wasn't counting weeks three. Weeks three, he played 38%.
I'm just saying the weeks that Cooper Cup was out.
I got you. Because in the two weeks where he was a full-time player, he was 28% and 22% of the targets. So he seems like a natural replacement unless the Rams make some sort of splash.
Well, and the Rams would be candidates to draft a wide receiver, too. Yeah, I fully expect that. Saying goodbye to Cooper Cup, saying goodbye to Tutu Atwell.
I think they're going to go try to find another Robert Woods the same way that they find an average, you know, a Darnell Mooney type of asset on the free agent market. Yeah, a veteran that's not going to cost what Cooper Cup costs.
Travis Kelsey during Radio Row opportunity here during the Super Bowl said he has a lot of good football left in him. They asked about retiring. He said, will I be here in three years? Hopefully still playing football. Okay. It'll be a different period of time for Travis Kelsey fantasy-wise.
Yeah, I mean, it already is. Kelsey is always the number one tight end. Even last year when he finishes the number two, I believe on a per-game basis, he was the number one tight end tied with Laporta.
Oh, two years ago.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Two years ago. And then, of course, this last year fell down to tight end six.
He is going to be... Very frustrating, I think, for fantasy football. Because we've seen it in this playoffs. Like you had, I don't remember which round it was. I guess their first game because they had the bye. And it was like, Travis Kelsey has this huge game. And then Travis Kelsey has like 16 yards or whatever it was. It was extremely low.
So knowing what he's still capable of if they funnel the offense through him, like he could still get a bunch of volume. He had three weeks from weeks 8 to 10, 12 targets, 16, 12 targets where he was the tight end 4, 2, and 1. And then he absolutely disappeared. So it's in there. He could still do it, but it will not be a week-to-week – So we'll see what the ADP shakes out to be.
Yeah, he'll be the starting tight end, but you will not know whether to start him all the time.
Yes.
Or at least you'll get there. I mean, Antonio Gates had four years at the end of his career where he would give you prolific performances. He'd finish in the top 12 two of those years, but it wasn't the old school numbers, and that just makes sense. And you're going to get weapons back. Rashi Rice missed most of the year. He will be difficult, Mike.
It will, and this is just thinking overall greatness of that is Travis Kelsey. I heard someone mention the ages because they were bringing up Gronk because Gronk's one of the best of all time. Do you know how old Gronk is compared to Travis Kelsey?
He's younger, isn't he?
He is born, so Gronk born May of 89, Travis Kelsey born October of 89. Wow. Oh, okay. Like Travis Kelsey. Yeah. Gronk has been gone forever. Kelsey's still putting up crazy numbers.
Yeah, it'll be interesting to see what happens with that offense. I think that's it by way of news. Let's go ahead and jump right into the truth.
You want answers? I think I'm entitled. You want answers. I want the truth. You can't handle the truth.
All right. Our final truth episode. The tight end position, pretty interesting this year. The most receptions by tight ends in NFL history.
Really? Yeah. Yeah, I think they had almost, wasn't it like a quarter?
Over 100 million receptions, yes.
24%.
Almost. Yep, yep, and that's a big number. And it was pretty high last year, too, just under 23%. Thanks, Brock Bowers. And last year, thanks to Sam Laporta and Trey McBride's breakout last year and McBride doing it again this year. So, yeah, I mean, if you talk about a trend... We could do it again, right? Warren from Penn State. I mean, we could first-round tight end opportunity.
If it's becoming more and more a part of the offense, you know, we had three tight ends this year, finished with 95 or more receptions, Bowers, McBride, and...
Travis Kelsey. And that would push my thesis to be more of this isn't a trend of the NFL. These are stars who have found themselves into good situations that they can actually shine and be the focal point.
It's nice. It's a changing of the guard. We had the studs for a long time, and every five or six years, the Gronk and Jimmy Graham changes, and then it becomes the Kelsey and Andrews. Now it seems like it's Bowers and McBride.
Yeah, and LaPorta will be in the mix, and the Kelsey Andrews-Kittle generation will start to fade.
What's really cool to know about tight ends, this is the truth of tight ends series, is that the new generation only comes when the old generation leaves. We can never have good tight ends across the board. Basically, Basic math is tight end suck. Across the league, tight end suck. And here's the proof for that. And this is why Turtile came up. Turtile came up because Dallas Goddard
who is not that good. I think he's... He's fine. He's fine.
I think he's a good NFL player.
I agree with that. I agree with that. I'm saying for fantasy football. We're on fantasy now. For fantasy football, Dallas Goddard made no difference to you, right? He helped you a week or two when there were injuries to A.J. Brown and Devontae Smith. Dallas Goddard, in our consistency metric... is our tight end seven. And that sounds really, really good.
And I want you to remember that it's still Dallas Goddard. So it's not that great. And he busted 44% of his games. Almost half of his games were a bust. That was not the bottom tertile. That was the middle tertile. And so I just want to give you an example of like... We could have just said thirds. But we didn't. Tight ends as a whole are very inconsistent. Not great. It does separate those.
If you can call your shot and get the right tight end at the top, it is a true difference maker for fantasy. And then if you don't get one of those guys, they all suck. Don't spend middle round picks on them.
here's a crazy stat the Ravens tight ends 18 receiving touchdowns for the Ravens so overall tight ends have had a lower percentage of the team's red zone targets despite those other receptions going up but the Ravens not to blame there that's as many as the Cowboys Colts Giants Rams Panthers Chargers Jags and Texans combined wow they could use some wide receivers
Or maybe that's just not how Lamar is made.
No, I think that's Lamar. Maybe Lamar just likes. Yeah, because Bateman had, what, nine?
Yeah, yeah. So a reminder for our final truth episode, we're looking at weeks 1 through 17. We're looking at consistency. You just got a little bit of a summary of what we're going to find. But, yeah, we're looking at weeks 1 through 17, classifying tight end performances above 15 points as great games, above 8 as good games. That's not that many points.
That's not that good, but it's good enough for tight end.
The bust games are below five and a half points. Which means that 44% of the time, Dallas Goddard was under five and a half points.
And not in the bottom turtile. So tight ends are yucky yuck.
Number one, though, George Kittle.
Boy, he was good.
George Kittle, number one in consistency, number one in fantasy finish, drafted in the fifth round. I don't think we've heard the name George Kittle enough as one of the best steals of the draft.
I agree.
How was he in the first half? Number one. How was he in the second half? Number two.
He was in a lot of categories for footy awards because he deserved to be, and we can recognize that this was a wonderful draft pick. This was a fifth, sixth round draft pick that was the number one tight end on the season, super consistent, helped people win. And he got no votes in any category. It was like he was not even like the runner-up, maybe at the tight end position. But he has no respect.
And what's funny is there's a lot of things that will be made. Brandon Ayuk's injury, Debo going away. Now George Kittle's going to be a year older. And I don't feel like George Kittle is going to skyrocket up and be a first or second round tight end next year.
He's not on early best ball right now. He's the tight end three in the late fourth round.
The previous three years for George Kittle, he finished as the tight end five, three, and four.
Yeah, I'm with Jason. I think George Kittle is very exciting if things kind of hold up for the 49ers.
The touchdowns, eight, you know, it was the second most of his career. But very consistent. I mean, consistency-wise, 86% good, 50% great games, and 7% bust games. So... You know, who are you going to count on when you look at the San Francisco offense at this point? Right. Is it Ayuk trying to come back from injury? Is it Ricky Pearsall as a sophomore? I mean, it's George Kittle.
Yeah, and George and Brock. I mean, Brock Purdy. Like, they have seemingly a real connection when it comes to, you know, touchdowns. So, Kittle had eight this year, which – For Kittle, that's actually a higher number. He's had one outlier season at 11. It was six two years ago, but remember that was... That was fine for Kittle.
I feel like he spent years with like four touchdowns on a season.
Yeah. Him and Birdie seem to be getting it done.
21 red zone targets. That's crazy. 33% of all routes inside the 20, which was number one among all tight ends. That is, yeah, it definitely speaks to a different quarterback being kind of more focused on him. He is 31.2 years old in the final year of his deal.
You love that. Don't extend him. Make him work for it. You know what I'm saying? Go get that money, George.
Number two, rookie Brock Bowers. He's not 31. He's 22 years old. He was a seventh-round pick. His consistency rank was 300. Number two in the first half, six in the second half. Great games, 25%. So half as many as Mr. George Kittle. Good games, 69%. Nice. Busts, 13% of the time. Had to deal with a carousel at quarterback. A carousel at wide receiver. Devontae Adams leaving.
Jacoby Myers missing time. Goodbye, Gardner Minshew. But you knew from like week one. that everything everybody said about Brock Bowers was 100% true, and you knew it almost instantly.
Yeah, I mean, I was, you know, I have historically been very anti-grabbing rookie tight ends, relying on them because for a decade every year people do it, and it hasn't worked until the last two. Week one, I remember coming in, it was like, okay, what's your early you were wrong from the whole draft season? And I was right off the bat like,
trade for him Brock Bowers is awesome he is that dude he's the number one tight end being drafted right now in best ball head of Trey McBride despite not knowing the quarterback situation and I think it's I think it's just I would take him ahead he doesn't seem like Laporta Laporta finished as the tight end one but we knew on the truth episode last year we were talking about
It wasn't as great a tight end one season as we had recently seen, and he was really inflated by touchdowns. The percentage of his fantasy points that came from touchdowns were very high. You know, you're talking about a number one rookie season from Brock Bowers who only had five touchdowns on the season.
it did coincide with the loss of Devontae Adams, and he became the de facto number one target for the team. But that's not going to change going into next year.
153.
Well, that's exciting. And 99 of the 153 were short area targets. So that's zero to nine yards.
You know, I don't think that there were a ton of Raiders games being played on national TV this year because they were not a very good team. You might not have got to watch Brock Bowers to see how it came about But here's how it came about on a regular basis.
He finds a spot in the zone that is perfect, like he is a 10-year vet and gets it, or he just is bigger than them, can take these DBs, these linebackers, and easily shed them off and get some yards after the catch. It was him. It was him.
He had the same target share as Nico Collins, 24%. The same first read target share as Mike Evans, 28%. The same first downs per outrun as Justin Jefferson at 10.8%. And the same yards after the catch per reception as CeeDee Lamb. So there's nobody I want more at my tight end spot than Brock Bowers for probably the next eight years.
I was surprised to see he has currently picked 16 on underdog. So that's where the number one tight end is going because he's being drafted as the number one tight end. But it's after the first round. He's not a first rounder. He's middle of the second. How do you guys feel about that?
He'll be a first rounder.
I think he'll be at the 1-2 turn.
11-12. Yeah. I think it'll make more of a difference in redraft. I do.
And we have, you know, we got Chip Kelly here as the new OC. Oh, I forgot about that. Heck yeah. And just went back and was trying to remember exactly how it happened, which, you know, brought me down the memory lane of Zach Ertz. Like, the career that was Zach Ertz of when he – Ertz was on the Eagles, right?
for it felt like forever we were screaming like free Ertz man get this dude the ball he's like he's he's such a he's such a good player he's a good tight end we need to feed him and it took a bit but you know the uh before the downturn of Chip Kelly so this is 2015 it was Zach Ertz with 112 targets so it's it's not something that's with Chip Kelly
Yes, this is not something that the Chip Kelly offense is opposed to doing.
That's good to know. And if you want the differential in my mind with, I think, honestly, Brock Bowers and our next guy we're going to talk about, Trey McBride, they're neck and neck in terms of the next few years performance-wise. It's probably where the touchdowns go. But three-year gap, amazingly, between Brock Bowers and Trey McBride, who is still very, very young.
We'll talk about him in just a minute. Number three, Trey McBride, 25-year-old Arizona Cardinal tight end, number two in consistency. Number four in the first half, number one in the second half, the most consistent tight end in the second half of the season, multiple number one performances. 73% good games, 33% great, 13% bust, all with two receiving touchdowns. That's wild. 111 for 1146 and two.
What did Brock have? Reception-wise? No, touchdowns.
Brock was at five. Okay.
Which is not crazy. Five receiving. So I guess then that's only one more touchdown then, right? Didn't McBride have – I thought McBride had a rushing touchdown and then the fumble recovery.
So they were close.
Yeah.
And McBride, definitely the first read in the Arizona offense. It wasn't the season Cardinals fans expected from Marvin Harrison. And it doesn't matter the strides that Harrison makes because we're talking about a situation that is going to be very Reggie Wayne, Dallas Drake, you know, like this is going to be a centerpiece. He's going to get paid. He'll be the highest paid tight end. And, um,
You know, Jason just talked about at number seven, you got 50-50 shot of a complete bust. Like McBride, Bowers, these guys are going to give you reliable target numbers every week. And that is my favorite thing with the tight end. Just let me know that you've got a high target share. Right. I mean, the touchdowns are going to come and go.
For these two guys, you're going to have much better seasons touchdown-wise than you just got.
For years, it has been when you look at your matchup on a weekly basis and your opponent has Travis Kelsey, you're like, oh, that sucks. I'm already taking like a seven, eight-point loss at this position. I've got to make it up elsewhere.
That's your hopeful. Right, yeah. You're hoping you take a seven-point loss, but you might get three touchdowns on you.
And it seems like these two guys, at least Trey McBride and Brock Bowers, I think they'll be neck and neck this coming season, depending on who has more touchdowns. They're a difference maker. So I will be drafting them very, very high. Right now, as the tight end two, he's going in the middle of the third round, which seems like a wonderful value.
Yeah, I love that. And you're alluding to it a little bit just of the like Trey McBride and Brock Bowers to me have nothing to worry about competition wise like George Kittle. I'm excited for George Kittle right now.
But we've seen things change.
Things over the offseason for the 49ers could change drastically. They might stay the same, but there is a chance they can change. And if things change for the Raiders or the Cardinals, it does not matter. It's actually better for them, in my opinion. Marv gets better. They add another potential wide receiver weapon for the Cardinals. Now the offense is better. Now they might score more. Exactly.
Trey McBride will not lose – his spot in the pecking order of the depth chart of where the targets are going to go, he's a top-tier talent. And if you get him on a better offense, just like Bowers, then now we're talking they are lapping the field.
And it's the human beings. The actual guys, Trey McBride and Brock Bowers, It was their doing versus, I mean, all of these guys are great. I don't want to take anything away from Sam Laporta. Exceptional tight end, but it wasn't his doing. He is a part of a great offense. I would push back on that. I would definitely push back on that.
I think it was a scheme that schemed him open that allowed him to take advantage of a great offense that is the number one scoring offense in the league versus... You know, the other two guys, it was all they're doing. It was you get the ball, you break two tackles, you run for 20 more yards. There's just nothing you can do about that. That's just not what Laporta can do.
Yeah, we can agree to disagree in part on that. I mean, Laporta didn't just have one good season. He had two seasons for this team. You know, 120 targets is earned. Targets aren't earned stat. And Trey McBride didn't have years like this his entire career because you did have to have opportunities to make him a centerpiece of the offense. He didn't outplay Zach Hertz in previous years.
So it was his time. But I don't want to take away from Laporta just because that offense had two amazing running backs, two amazing wide receivers. So Laporta got 90 targets instead of whatever, you know, These other guys did.
My point is more, like I said, I don't want to take it away from Laporta. I think you do. No, it's to build these other two guys up because I never saw Laporta go up and just moss people left and right. You saw that with Trey McBride all the time. His sideline catches that were just like... And hurtling people, which I wish you would stop doing. Right, stop.
It's very cool, especially for a man your size, but stop it.
Laporta's got a higher yards per catch than McBride does, I'll tell you that.
Yeah, I think he had a couple of real long breakaway receptions.
It wasn't his doing, though. They put him on a cart and drove him down the sideline.
No, I mean, we're actually saying the same thing because it was like those broken plays where he was by himself on half of a field.
Laporte is an amazing athlete and an amazing title.
His season's so good, we must be talking about him next, right? No, we got to talk about Johnny Smith first. Oh, Laporte will be right after that, though, right?
No, no, no, a couple more.
Right after that, though.
No, not yet. Good season in my butt. Yeah.
All right. Johnny Smith is four somehow.
Johnny Smith is four.
I just love that for no reason we're talking about Laporta. Here's your line. Look, I'm not taking nothing away from Sam Laporta, but the dude sucks. You made me do that.
Last year's number one tight end. You brought this on Sam Laporta.
You brought this on him. You act like the dude didn't catch a million passes. If Laporta was in the Cardinals offense, he would have caught that amount of passes. Sam Laporta is no Johnnie Smith. That's what I know. Johnnie Smith was the number four most consistent and number four overall. He was 13 in consistency in the first half, third in the second half, 63% good, 25% bust, 31% great.
That 31% great number, that's right on par with Trey McBride. I mean, that's above Brock Bauer. Dude, the second half was outrageous. I mean, he was a lead. He had 88 receptions for 884 yards. 111 targets, and really didn't become the central focus at the tight end position or in the offense until week nine.
Yeah, people won championships with Jonu Smith. I mean, he was the tight end 2-3-3-5-2, and then 10-13-5. But the 10-13, you're talking about basically double-digit fantasy points those weeks. They're not bus games. Not at all. And it is funny. You brought this up a couple times during the season, especially late towards the playoffs.
that maybe Arthur Smith deserved an apology because the entire world was so sick of him using Jonathan Smith over Kyle Pitts. Like, you've got this highly drafted top 10 pick, but he's at practice going, that guy's better. Jonathan Smith's a better player than Kyle Pitts.
Which, that is 100% correct. But his usage of Drake London, I don't issue any apologies. Fair. Fair.
uh yeah keep them down i like it this was you know johnny smith is sort of like what david nijoki did last year to finish the season you had a just a run of games where you're like this is a guy that's been around and yet is now an elite option indicative of miami's transformation on offense they couldn't get the ball they weren't willing to get the ball down the field as much tyreek hill we went over that in the truth episode for him almost half the receiving yards
I don't think any of us would have said, if we told you starting the year, he's going to have half the receiving yards. Who's the beneficiary? You would have said Devon Aitken. You would have said Jalen Waddle. You would have said somebody not named Johnny Smith.
I would have said Malik Washington. Breakout season as a rookie, absolutely. It would not have been Johnnie Smith. But Johnnie Smith was the quick out relief valve over and over down the stretch for Tua.
That could run after the catch.
John, who is under contract next year for the Dolphins. I don't see the scheme style getting the ball out of to his hands to protect him as well. Changing.
That's what I was going to say. Is this a blip or not?
I don't. Well, I don't think the second half is going to continue all throughout next year. Tight end two, three, three, five, two. Right. However, I think he is going to be a really valuable fantasy asset next year. He'll certainly be, you know, I think in the top seven tight ends. Is that fair? You know, I see him having kind of like... In ADP, you mean? No, no, no. Fantasy finish.
I think at the end of the year, he'll be a... Seven or eight. Seven or eight, somewhere around there. Kind of what we had for a couple seasons from like Evan Ingram. Kind of volume your way... towards being a very relevant, not bust pick.
That's the question. Are we going to have a Janu Achan offense, or are we going to have a Tyreek Hill, Jalen Waddell offense? Not Tyreek Hill. Yeah, it's weird because two years ago, if you remember, they were dead last in target share. For the tight end position. Yeah, for the tight end position. This was not a team, and no, chicken or egg, right?
Who are they going to throw the ball to type of stuff. The chicken. And John New emerges. You don't want to throw the ball at eggs. This is a really difficult thing of not knowing which – which way is the offense going to point?
They didn't have John who two years ago, right? He was, he was still a Falcon. So I think part of it is that. And part of it is Tyree kill. I mean, you know, two years ago, Tyree kill was two years younger. And that's a pretty big deal right now. When you're, when you're at this age and number five with 55 receptions,
On just 69 targets. Not nice. 673 yards, but 11 touchdowns. It's Mark Andrews, which the Mark Andrews. What do you want to call it? The journey?
No, the roller coaster. I mean, they're building. They're building a Mark Andrews at six flags right now.
Oh, does it start pretty crappy?
It starts crappy, but it's going to, oh, it's wild at the end.
They take you underwater where you're almost drowning, and then right before you drown, it lifts up. Look, Mark Andrews is, it's wild. This was the, did you know, this is his career high in touchdowns. That was his career high in touchdowns.
Was it his career high in games played?
Yes.
That's always been his problem.
11 touchdowns. He's only had one double-digit year ever. One of the things that happened back in 2021 is we got this outrageous outlier season from Andrews. 154 targets, 107 receptions. He's played seven seasons. He's never again surpassed 73 receptions. Andrew's story is never going to be competing with McBride and Bowers on the PPR reception totals.
It's always going to be, if Andrews is on the field and Lamar Jackson's on the field, these two have a special red zone relationship. And it surfaced over the course of the back half of the year.
Yeah, and when you say the back half of the year, it really, the first month of the season, that's when, at that point, after week four, people were cutting Mark Andrews in half of your leagues. He had just goosed back-to-back games.
Oh, man. Oh, the back-to-back goose and then the discussion of do you play Mark Andrews?
Yeah, do you play him and do you drop him? I think we did our best saying you don't drop Mark Andrews. I might have been done after the first four, which I don't blame anyone. So here's how bad it was, the truth of his season. The first four weeks, He had a total of 65 yards, and 51 of those came in one of those games. No touchdowns, six total receptions. So it was worthless.
14 yards in the other three games?
Yeah, and then if you think about it, you go, okay, so he finished great. He must have had an amazing stretch run the rest of the way. From weeks 5 through 18, the rest of the way, If you just take the yardage pace of those games, once you're finally past the car accident month, remember that narrative? You got in a car accident early. Maybe it took them a while to get going.
What do you think his yardage was from that point forward? It would have been a 17-game pace of under 800 yards, 795 yards. So to me – Yeah, but what's the touchdown pace? 14.4. Yeah, that's nice. But I think it echoes what Andy's saying. He's not going to be a high-volume, high-floor PPR machine anymore. He has huge game upside because of touchdowns.
Yeah, his consistency rank was below his fantasy finish, which you're probably going to see from him with touchdown dependency. He was number four in the second half, number six on the season, 17 in the first half, 31% bust rate.
he redeemed, uh, you know, all of the, if you had him still, if you kept him, you could play him and you could rely on him because tight end it's, it's tough in the tight end streets. Mark Andrews delivered with the touchdowns. That's where the value came. Um, But the truth of his season is not, I don't feel like he was the fifth best tight end.
No, no. But despite that first month and the fact that you don't feel that way, still finished above Sam Laporta.
Yeah, he did. He did. So there's that. He did finish ahead of Sam Laporta. Oh, man. So, no, no, no. Let me just take the logical conclusion. You said, verbatim, McBride earned it, Laporta didn't. Which means that if Laporta didn't perform, it's also not his fault. Thank you. Because if it wasn't his fault to be successful, it can't be his fault if he failed. Correct. Yeah.
So he's just a product of a system. So he would have been great had they let him be great. Yeah, okay. Yeah, great. So, I mean, there's no point in dunking on him. Just dunk on the lion. I wasn't dunking on him.
I was sharing facts. Sure. Mark Andrews finished above Sam Laporta. Yeah, no, he did. Do you feel like you'll be in on Mark? I think Mark Andrews this next year will plummet in draft, I guess.
Early best ball, end of the seventh round right now.
End of the seventh. So that's going to be probably ahead of where John is going. And I think I would rather have Jonu than Mark Andrews next year. I'd rather have that take the one round. Not only the one round discount, if they were in the same round.
If I'm on the clock at the beginning of the eighth round and I'm choosing between Jonu and Mark Andrews, I think I'd rather have the PPR floor and the consistency that I would expect from the Tua offense rather than just the touchdown upside from Mark Andrews.
I mean, 55 receptions over 17 games. You played every game. You averaged 3.23 receptions. Yeah. That clinches the butt cheeks until you get the touchdown. Which, to be fair. Make sure I never say that exact line again.
You got a lot of touchdowns. So you unclenched it regularly. Yeah, those loose butt cheeks. A lot of fiber.
All right, Kelsey at number six was drafted as the tight end one in the third round. Whoops. He's 35 years old. Consistency rank of eight in the first half. It was 13 in the second half. It was nine. Not a good pick. Just not a good pick. No. He was the perfect, kind of did enough-ish to make you keep playing him because you'd never sit Kelsey, right? But maybe you could have.
Maybe you could have shifted from what you got from Kelsey in the second half
to a Johnny Smith so we've already if it hasn't become clear we've already hit the massive tear break of yeah I know we're talking about Travis Kelsey Hall of Famer first round fantasy pick forever but he is obviously no longer an elite option a weekly reliable player that you're going to bank on and and I don't think Mark Andrews is either we just talked about him
So like John, who's on that bubble, which he's probably not. I don't think he's in that group. He's probably not in that group. No, he's not in that group. Which means there's only three. And the rest of these are all trash. Well, until next year's number one pick. Sure, maybe it'll be four.
But then if that happens, if next year's number one pick, if the rookie comes in and achieves greatness, that only means that George Kittle has to be bad then.
Yeah. Because of the rule of the tight end. It's kind of like Highlander. Yes, there could only be three. There's generally another. I said kind of.
There's normally another Jonu Smith. It wouldn't be Jonu again. Right. There'd be somebody else. But we talked a lot about Kelsey already at the top, talking about his age, talking about how he wants to keep playing, talking about how annoying it is going to be. Just giving you the numbers, 25% great, 50% good, 38% bust. That was the Travis Kelsey story.
I'd love to talk Laporta, but we've got to take a break first. All right. Last year's number one tight end. Totally didn't earn it. Number one, didn't earn it. This year, didn't earn it. Number seven, just kind of a mist out there on the field. Sam Laporta. He was drafted as the tight end two in the third round, no question. Disaster.
Yeah, huge bust. Disaster.
He was the eighth most consistent in the second half after a much worse start at number 21, only 7% great, 47% good, 33% bust. Jameson Williams returned this year, made a big impact. We talked about him in the tight end truth. Huge difference maker. Had the dominance from Gibbs, who ascended. Montgomery, who continued. So Laporta can be good.
He is a very, very serviceable option in this offense. But he, you know, all jokes aside, he's not the dominant force that demands to be a centerpiece of the offense. He is a great asset to add to an already good offense.
Unfortunately, you are right.
Yeah, and so, you know, the first half of the season, when you drafted him as that tight end one or tight end two, when you really went in on Sam Laporta, I mean, you dropped Sam. Sam Laporta was dropped.
Because unlike Mark Andrews, where it was one month into the season, we're talking nine games into the season where Sam Laporta was behind Zach Ertz and Mike Kosicki and Dalton Kincaid and Cole Komet. He was, you know... You had given up. You had given up. You had moved on. And a lot of people would stream Sam Laporta second half of the season.
Now, that turned out good because he was kind of more integral to the offense later on. And the thing is, is I know that any game that you're out there, Sam Laporta can finish as even the tight end one on the week. That's nice to know. But you're not going to have consistency because he's not a – he isn't part of the engine that makes the offense move.
He has, this year, seven touchdowns on 60 catches. I mean, you're in the Andrews territory right there.
Double those touchdowns.
Double?
Almost.
12.
Part of the situation for Laporta is like.
Did you just say that seven times two is 12? Oh, he had seven. I thought he had six. I think that's what you did. I think you said that. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Not letting you leave there.
Okay, that's fair. That one's on me. Yeah, like, just remembering the story of the Detroit Lions. The first half of the year when the Lions had their defensive pieces.
Yep.
Right. They were... They were killing people on offense, and then the defense was not allowing people to score. So you just – you weren't getting – while their offense is still strong, it's not as relied upon. And then in the second half of the year, I'm just like – I'm trying to think about this out loud of like could that have been –
a source of why Laporta had a great second half because the Lions had whatever, you know, 20-plus guys on IR, including losing a bunch of key defensive pieces.
And losing Montgomery for a period of time where he had two good games without Montgomery. Look, Garrett Goff threw for 4,637. You would have expected a much better year for Sam Laporta if he was indeed the focal point like a McBride or a Bowers or a Kittle.
Yeah, he's the fourth receiving option in this offense.
And we all like Amon Roth forever. We like Jamison Williams. We like Jameer Gibbs, who catches the football. He's not changing that order. Now, he could have a top five year because he catches 11 touchdowns. Yes, exactly. But that's the category for sure. So fight over. Number eight, Tucker Kraft. Number nine, Zach Ertz.
Don't worry about Tucker Kraft. Why are we skipping Tucker Kraft? I have no idea. Who made this executive decision?
I made the executive decision.
Our note says skip.
Yeah, why are we skipping Kraft? So, yeah, because we wanted to talk about 12 guys because that's kind of how we fit them in. This poor guy, man. I wanted to get to David Njoku. Didn't earn it. I wanted to get to David Njoku and Dallas Goddard. Why? Tucker Kraft was better. Well, okay, he was a little bit better. Dallas Goddard was significantly better.
He was the tight end seven in our consistency rankings but missed games. And David Njoku is, I mean, who are you taking next year, David Njoku or Tucker Kraft? Because Tucker Kraft wasn't good. Who's throwing the ball in Cleveland? Tucker Kraft did not have a good season. Did he have more total fantasy points than the guys who missed games? Yes. But he didn't have a good fantasy season.
I do agree. You're not going to draft him next year.
It's an irrelevant conversation. And Musgrave was gone.
Yeah. Kraft stole his launch money.
I mean, Zach Ertz. Yeah. This is the you didn't play that great. This is just the order you're in category.
We don't have to talk about any of these guys.
Well, Zach Ertz did it at 34 and was the ninth most consistent.
I think Tucker Kraft was better than you do, apparently.
Well, Tucker Kraft, if you want to look at the numbers, he had 50 catches for 700 yards and seven touchdowns. This is, I think, Ferguson-y. Dalton Schultz a couple years ago. I guess Dallas turnstile.
It's just more about what is the... What is his career path? He was a third-round pick.
He's 6'5", 259. He's 24 years old. He was a third-round pick.
Yes.
He's not an athletic freak. He is a capable.
Well, his athleticism is actually. Whoa. Whoa. Athletic. Did I go athleticism? Athleticism. I was going to go athleticism. And then I bailed out and jumped to do a different word. It happens. You've done that. His athleticism is actually pretty. It's better than you think it is. Like his quickness and explosiveness. He's in the 69th percentile and the 75th percentile for explosive.
He has good short area speed. He's a piece of an office.
He's only had two games where he had five or more receptions.
You also had Luke Musgrave miss the vast majority of the season. Played a couple weeks, got injured for the whole season, played the couple at the end.
Kraft is probably it now, though.
Yeah, that's what I think. I think Kraft is going to be the preferred guy, and it's 355 yards as a rookie, 707 as a sophomore. Just saying, I would pay attention to the way that his career is unfolding.
Mike wants him to get some time on the show.
He got some time. You can have as much time as you want for Tucker Kraft. That was it. We're done.
He doesn't want to talk about it, so we probably don't need to.
But he had a great year. Yeah, it's just, is he back? which he will be for half a season before Benson takes over.
The Muth was at 10. Njoku was at 11, but keep an eye on the consistency rank. He was number five. You talked about Johnny Smith. I'd take Njoku over Johnny Smith. Yes. Unless I am being dealt the worst hand at quarterback I can comprehend.
What about Njoku or Laporta? Njoku. Yeah, of course.
Oh, my gosh. This can't be a thing.
It's not going to be.
This is a one-time thing. Njoku's story was he missed so much time. He missed three weeks at the beginning of the year. He missed week 15. He missed two weeks in the championship week and the week after. He missed his quarterback. He had Amari Cooper traded midseason. The team is collapsing, but... You watch him play football, and you say, okay, this is a dominator.
I think he's going to be a humongous bounce-back candidate and probably the best value of the non-elite tight ends next year because at the end of the previous season, we weren't sure. Was it these ancillary pieces, or did he level up? Can he be kind of a center of a top-two target in an offense going forward?
And while at the end of the season, it seems like he wasn't because he missed those games, got injured throughout, had some quarterback changes, even Jameis Winston getting pulled. Nobody paid attention to the Browns as the season went on. You kind of forgot about David Njoku. But on a per game basis and watching the film, he was actually the guy that ended the season prior.
He didn't go on that kind of a magma stretch because, you know, if you remember the season prior, it was somehow their schedule lined up with like eight of the best matchups for tight ends in a row. But my point is. And going into this draft season, there was a question of, is David Njoku that guy or not? And I believe he actually proved he was despite finishing at tight end 11.
I can't believe you wanted to talk about Dallas Goddard more than Tucker Kraft. Dallas Goddard, we've played the record for eight years. I mean, he finishes at 27. His consistency was seven. His second half was five, but he missed a ton of time. And he did exactly what he always does. He's always willing to give you about a 10 to 12 finish at the position and
If he was a video game character, his nickname would be the opportunist. He's going to take advantage of a certain game here or there. But, I mean, we've been here, right?
No, I mean, we do not need to talk about Dallas Goddard. Seven seasons of Dallas Goddard. There was only one. I got about five more minutes on Tucker Kraft. Look, I'm going to be honest with you guys. The tight ends after the top guys. are so borderline irrelevant. What's the truth? The truth, the absolute truth, if I'm being completely honest and no jokes.
is the reason that I wanted to talk about Dallas Goddard was to get Turtile in here. The problem is you guys brought up Turtile really early in the show. Oh, I'm sorry. So we didn't even need Dallas Goddard. Oh, he was just a Turtile placeholder. Yeah, Tucker Kraft was so I could get Turtile into this show, guys. That's more important than Tucker Kraft. You're that fascinated in the word.
I'm that unfascinated with the meandering. I mean, because we could talk about a million of these guys. Are we a Turtile?
No.
A trifecta? I mean, I'm in the top tertile of the – Well, you are the only Ring of Honor member, so that's true. But, I mean, whether we talk about – Congrats on that, by the way. Whether we talk about Kate Otten or Mike Gesicki or Cole Komet, I mean, there are so many of these guys, and it's pretty irrelevant the difference between most of them.
You know, so next year stream the position or get one of the studs.
Well, that's good because this triumvirate has another segment for you.
I cannot wait to be in on Cole Komet. Yeah, maybe. Oh, man. That's going to be fun. He's a talented player.
He is. When you were talking about Tucker Kraft, all I could think about was Cole Komet. Because it's the same. It feels the same.
Yeah, but we all agree that Cole Komet is a talented guy. Exactly. And got hosed this year, and now he's got – He will be hosed forever. Ben Johnson. He's got Ben Johnson. He's the new Laporta. Oh, no.
Well, Laporta didn't earn it, so he did need to.
That's the point. Even better. That's even better. He just gives it to him.
Fantasy Face-Off, presented by DraftKings.
Well, it's the final one of the year. We did not have football last week, so we do not have any punishments to dole out. But we do have Super Bowl lineups.
My lineup is punishment enough, everybody. We do have. Hope you got Dallas Goddard in it after all this sweet Dallas Goddard talk.
Oh, he's in. We're circling back to Super Bowl only captain lineups for the big game. I'm going with a captain, Saquon Barkley. Well, who's your captain?
My captain as well as Saquon Barkley. And I knew that both of you would go with the captain of Saquon Barkley. So it was what in the like, how do you pivot this? So it is just the ultimate victory. And coming in at the bottom of the turtile, Mr. Dallas Goddard will be my captain. Fantastic.
Well, the rest of my lineup.
That was before I even knew that this show was going to happen.
You're talking about number seven consistency ranked Dallas Goddard?
That's who I'm talking about.
My final five names. Barkley, by the way, 18,000 as a captain.
All right. Why don't you name one name we'll say if we got him so we know. Is that the best way to do it? Really?
I think that sounds confusing. Let's try it out. I have Hollywood.
I have Hollywood as well.
At 5,400. I have Hollywood Brown.
Okay, so he's irrelevant.
I have Goddard in my lineup. Not my captain, but 5,800.
I have Goddard at 5,800 as well. Mike's his captain. Irrelevant. Other than, obviously, you get more points. If you haven't played this game before, your captain gets extra points.
One and a half.
One and a half times the points for whatever they score, but also their salary costs more when you choose them as your captain.
I have Saquon as a flex.
Okay, okay. I have Patrick Mahomes at $10,000.
Ooh, I do not. I don't have any Mahomes. Okay.
I've got Jalen Hurts. I do not have Hurts. I have Jalen Hurts.
All right. So Mike and I are on the Hurts. You're on the Mahomes side.
I just figured he's going to hand it to Barkley. That's what I'm going to go with.
I figure Mahomes is going to lose.
Xavier Worthy at $8,000, and then Noah Gray is the bargain bin at $2,800.
I've got Noah Gray at $2,800 and Kareem Hunt at $6,400. Oh, okay.
I went with one more ride for the big guy. We've got Travis Kelsey in here at 9,000. I figure he'll show up in the Super Bowl. And then a guy who is surprisingly getting a bunch of targets inside the end zone. Not a bunch of targets nor playing time, but I'm going with DeAndre Hopkins at 4,400. Just hope that we get – if anyone has a fluky two-touchdown game, I think it's Hopkins.
You just heard three lineups. zero AJ Brown, zero Devonta Smith. That's true. Pretty wild. Yeah, because Dallas Guard. Oh, boy. That was fantasy face-off presented by DraftKings Sportsbook. It's the last chance to bet on the NFL this season. Download the DraftKings Sportsbook app and use the code BALLERS. That is the code BALLERS.
Place any TD bet on Super Bowl 59 and get it matched as a bonus bet in the amount of your original bet. Only on DraftKings Sportsbook. The crown is yours. Did you have a final thought there, Mike? Just a Goddard-related. Yeah. Goddard and Kraft. Goddard and Kraft. Your guys. Oh. I was like, I don't know that song. Yeah. Focus on those next year for tight end. Dude, this is what I do.
I like my nasty boy tight ends. It's good you passed on McBride for Andrews. I'll tell you that. That was smart. Yeah. Marv. Marv.
Goodbye, everybody.
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