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Crimeatorium

Part 6: The State of Florida vs Laurie Shaver | The Murder of Michael Shaver

Sun, 22 Dec 2024

Description

Part 6: Isabelle Shaver testifies as well as her mother, Laurie Shaver, the defense then rests.Laurie Shaver was a Florida woman whose seemingly ordinary life unraveled when authorities uncovered the body of her husband, Michael Shaver, buried in their backyard beneath a concrete slab. Michael, born in New York and just 33 years old at the time, was a Disney employee who disappeared in 2015. For years, Laurie claimed he had simply walked away from their marriage. However, suspicions grew when family and friends reported him missing in 2018, leading investigators to uncover the truth. Laurie Shaver was charged with second-degree murder in connection with her husband's death. This episode presents a condensed version of her trial, edited for clarity and length.Contact:www.crimeatorium.comcrimeatorium@gmail.comCrimeatorium Blog for updates and insights:https://crimeatorium.com/blogSupport:Donations are appreciated, if you would like to help support the show, use the link below and buy me a burrito and a Diet Pepsi:http://Ko-fi.com/crimeatoriumFor $3 a month, you can support this show on Patreon, in return you will receive ad free, early, and bonus episodeshttps://www.patreon.com/crimeatoriumIf you like the podcast, please share it on social media and with friends, and take a minute to leave a review for Crimeatorium on Spotify, Podchaser or Apple Podcasts.Music:CO.AG Musichttps://www.youtube.com/@co.agmusic1823Thank you for listening!Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/crimeatorium9009/donationsAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

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Transcription

00:12 - 00:18 Host

Isabel Shaver has been called to the stand. Ms. Shaver, please state and spell your full legal name.

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00:19 - 00:26 Host

My name is Isabel Shaver, I-S-A-B-E-L-L-E-S-H-A-V-E-R.

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00:26 - 00:28 Host

How old are you, Isabel?

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00:28 - 00:30 Host

I'm 15. I turned 16 this Sunday.

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00:30 - 00:36 Host

It's your desire to testify in this matter, correct?

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00:36 - 00:36 Host

Yes, sir.

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00:38 - 00:41 Host

You're aware of the arrest of your mother, correct?

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00:41 - 00:42 Host

Yes, sir.

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00:43 - 00:56 Host

Now, Isabel, there's allegations raised on the ground that, so to speak, that you've been brought in here, kind of thrown under the bus. Has anybody pressured you to testify in this cause?

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00:56 - 00:57 Host

Absolutely not, no.

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00:58 - 01:04 Host

Now, there was, Ms. Johnson was appointed as an attorney ad litem to represent you.

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01:04 - 01:05 Host

Correct.

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01:05 - 01:07 Host

Did you meet with Ms. Johnson?

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01:08 - 01:08 Host

Yes.

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01:08 - 01:10 Host

Did you discuss your case with Ms. Johnson?

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01:11 - 01:11 Host

I did.

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01:12 - 01:17 Host

Did Ms. Johnson go over all the rights that you would waive by testifying in this case?

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01:17 - 01:18 Host

Yes, sir.

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01:19 - 01:21 Host

Is it still your desire to testify?

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01:21 - 01:22 Host

Yes.

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01:22 - 01:26 Host

Do you understand your obligation to testify truthfully?

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01:26 - 01:27 Host

I do.

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01:28 - 01:30 Host

Are you going to testify truthfully?

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01:30 - 01:32 Host

I'm going to testify truthfully.

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01:32 - 01:36 Host

Would you explain your relationship to Lori Shaver?

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01:37 - 01:51 Host

Lori Shaver is my mother. Me and her are very close. We... We've always been very close. She's, I mean, we do everything together. We're, I mean, I don't know. She's like my best friend and a mom in one.

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01:52 - 01:55 Host

Isabel, you met me some time ago, correct?

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01:56 - 01:56 Host

Correct.

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01:56 - 01:59 Host

Met me at or about the time of your mother's arrest?

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02:00 - 02:01 Host

Right, yes.

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02:01 - 02:04 Host

I had, did I not, a brief discussion with you?

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02:04 - 02:05 Host

We did, yes.

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02:06 - 02:12 Host

And upon that brief discussion... we had requested that Ms. Johnson be appointed, correct?

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02:13 - 02:13 Host

Correct.

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02:14 - 02:25 Host

Now, if I ask you any questions you do not understand, would you please ask me to rephrase the question, repeat the question, or try to ask the question in a different way?

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02:25 - 02:25 Host

Yes.

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02:26 - 02:28 Host

Do you recall your father?

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02:29 - 02:29 Host

Yes.

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02:30 - 02:30 Host

His name?

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02:31 - 02:31 Host

Michael Shaver.

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02:32 - 02:35 Host

What was your relationship like with Michael Shaver?

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02:37 - 02:54 Host

We didn't really have much of a relationship. He wasn't very present. He worked at night, and so he slept all day during the day. And any time he was home, we weren't really allowed outside of our rooms. We didn't have a relationship, really. He really wasn't a father to me.

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02:55 - 03:00 Host

Was the atmosphere calm? How would you describe the household?

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03:02 - 03:06 Host

It was very combative. It was very...

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03:07 - 03:32 Host

tense there was a lot of tension constantly it's not calm it was the complete opposite of calm nobody whenever whenever he was home it was just i mean it was scary it was like we i don't know we were just stuck in our rooms all day and then like whenever we weren't it was just he was very aggressive and he we just we didn't have that type of relationship no it wasn't a calm household

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03:34 - 03:43 Host

You see any alter, without talking about the facts of any events, did you see any altercations between Michael and your mother?

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03:44 - 03:44 Host

I did, yes.

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03:45 - 03:46 Host

Were they frequent?

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03:47 - 03:49 Host

Yeah, yeah. They were pretty frequent.

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03:50 - 03:50 Host

Were they physical?

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03:51 - 03:51 Host

Yes.

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03:52 - 04:00 Host

So speaking about household events, you had a slogan that there was an atmosphere that was tense, I believe?

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04:01 - 04:03 Host

Yes. I've shown you a car closet exhibit.

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04:05 - 04:12 Host

Did you see your mom in that same or similar condition on multiple occasions?

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04:12 - 04:13 Host

Yes.

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04:13 - 04:34 Host

Are those true and accurate depictions how you frequently observed your mom without speaking about the events themselves? Yes. Did those images and mental impressions in your mind cause you to feel the need to take your mother's side at any time?

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04:35 - 04:36 Host

Yes, I mean, look at her.

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04:38 - 04:46 Host

Did it cause you, Isabel, to step up in the past on more than one occasion and side with your mother?

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04:47 - 04:47 Host

Yes, it did.

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04:48 - 04:55 Host

In the pictures that you looked at, who committed those injuries to your mother?

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04:55 - 04:56 Host

My father.

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04:56 - 05:03 Host

Josh, we ask that this exhibit is held without testimony as to the events...

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05:07 - 05:12 Host

How's the exhibit identified? What letter marking? He is in Bravo. Okay. Any objection from the state?

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05:13 - 05:24 Host

Okay, Ms. Bell, I'm showing you what's marked as offensive to the scene for identification purposes. Would you tell the jurors what you're looking at?

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05:25 - 05:28 Host

I see my father with a torn shirt and blood.

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05:28 - 05:29 Host

Stick up, please.

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05:29 - 05:34 Host

I'm sorry. I see my father, and he has a torn shirt and blood.

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05:34 - 05:35 Host

Whose blood's that?

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05:36 - 05:39 Host

I mean, I'm assuming his. Says?

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05:39 - 05:39 Host

Maybe.

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05:39 - 05:39 Host

Maybe.

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05:42 - 06:09 Host

Now, the photos you looked at in Chesapeake, briefly, is this the individual that would do that and say, do you understand what I'm saying? Would move State Defense Exhibit C into evidence at this time, Judge? Yeah. Isabel, how frequently would those events occur without speaking the details of the events?

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06:10 - 06:25 Host

It would happen pretty often. They'd at least argue and fight really bad, pretty much on the daily. But it would escalate to those points a few times a month. It wasn't a rare occurrence. It happened often.

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06:26 - 06:35 Host

And as a matter of those events, I may have asked this question before, did you feel a need to attempt to protect your mom in any fashion?

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06:36 - 06:37 Host

I did, yes.

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06:38 - 06:41 Host

Did you perceive your mother... as a victim through those events.

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06:42 - 06:42 Host

Yes.

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06:44 - 07:02 Host

Those, that response that transpired at you, did it become a natural and automatic response? You talked about the feeling inside of yourself of the need to protect your mother. Did that become automatic inside?

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07:02 - 07:18 Host

Yes, it did. Growing up, I mean, Yeah, I've always stepped in for my mother. I was, I mean, I would, you know, do whatever I could do. I mean, I remember I had this stuffed animal, and her name was Lammy, and she was my favorite stuffed animal.

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07:20 - 07:39 Host

And he used to, you know, she would go to sleep on the couch, and he would drug her water, and I would tuck her in, and I would, like, give her my stuffed animal to protect her. And obviously it's not, it's a stuffed animal, it's not going to protect her, but it was just... Like the act and the principle of it.

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07:39 - 07:44 Host

Was there a period of time when your father was removed from the residence?

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07:45 - 07:45 Host

Yes, there was.

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07:46 - 07:48 Host

Father removed from the residence on a pick?

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07:48 - 07:48 Host

Yes.

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07:49 - 07:51 Host

As a consequence of these events?

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07:51 - 07:51 Host

Yes.

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07:52 - 07:59 Host

And during the period or the absence of your father, did your mother start dating anybody?

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08:00 - 08:04 Host

After he had been removed for a while, she did start dating Jeremy.

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08:05 - 08:07 Host

What was Jeremy's last name?

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08:08 - 08:13 Host

Townsman? I don't think I know his last name. It's something like that.

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08:13 - 08:19 Host

Okay. How often would Jeremy come to the residence?

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08:20 - 08:37 Host

He was over all the time. I mean, he came over for holidays. He was there for my brother's birthday. His son went to the same school as me and my brother, so he would meet up at our house every day before we'd go to school. And he was at the school for all the plays, the events, all that type of stuff. He was over all the time.

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08:38 - 08:39 Host

Would he come in the morning?

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08:40 - 08:41 Host

Yeah, morning, night.

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08:41 - 08:43 Host

Did he ever spend the night there?

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08:43 - 08:44 Host

Yes.

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08:45 - 08:48 Host

Would y'all go to places with Mr. Townsend or Jeremy?

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08:49 - 08:49 Host

Yes, we would.

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08:50 - 08:52 Host

Was he there for Christmas?

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08:52 - 08:54 Host

Not Christmas Day, but Christmas Eve.

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08:55 - 08:58 Host

Was he there for any other holidays or special events?

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08:58 - 09:05 Host

He was there for my brother's birthday. I don't really remember any other holidays, but I know he was there for my brother's birthday and Christmas.

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09:06 - 09:11 Host

Do you remember going shopping or out on the town with Mr. Townsend?

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09:11 - 09:20 Host

Yeah, we used to go to the Chick-fil-A a lot, one of the ones with the playgrounds. And we'd go with his son and then me and my brother. We did that a lot.

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09:21 - 09:24 Host

Do you know if Mr. Townsend or Jeremy was married?

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09:25 - 09:26 Host

I don't think so.

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09:27 - 09:37 Host

Isabel, I'm sorry, but I have to do this. Let's talk about Michael. Your father. Do you know anything about the death of your father?

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09:37 - 09:38 Host

I do.

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09:39 - 09:42 Host

Do you know anything about how your father died?

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09:42 - 09:42 Host

I do.

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09:42 - 10:01 Host

Could you tell the jury? So, it was a school day, and, I'm sorry, and he... First, let's relax, go slow, make sure the jury understands the events, okay? Okay.

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10:02 - 10:25 Host

Okay. It was a school morning. Me and my brother were getting ready for school. He hadn't been at the house for a while. He was kicked out and moved. And me and my brother were in separate rooms where we hadn't pretty much been ready for school. I was... I knew my breakfast and I was watching TV. We had these like little plastic tables in our rooms and I was watching TV and I heard arguing.

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10:25 - 10:48 Host

Initially I thought it was a TV and then I was like, no, that's not the TV. So my room, it had, it was my room and then it had a bathroom and then a spare room. And so they all connected to each other, like, through the bathroom. It was almost like a little, like, pathway. And so I heard, you know, the fighting and the yelling, and it escalated. So I went.

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10:48 - 11:14 Host

I always, when I was little, I would go through there to, like, sneak around. And I opened the spare room door, and in front of the spare room door was the dining room. And in front of the dining room, there was a glass door, like a sliding glass door. So I opened the door to the spare room and I stood there and I saw my father and he wasn't supposed to be there.

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11:16 - 11:40 Host

And my mom and my father were fighting and my mom went to leave, like leave the argument, leave the porch, they were out on the porch. And he pulled her by the arm. And he pulled her into her lap onto one of the porch chairs. And he held her there. And then she was like, we can work things out. We'll figure this out. It'll be different. And he was like, no, there's no next time.

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11:40 - 11:52 Host

There's no figuring it out. And he pushed her onto the ground. He pushed her onto the ground. And he started kicking her in the stomach and in the back. And then he took his other foot and he put it on.

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11:53 - 12:28 Host

the side of her face and she was screaming and he was like saying there's not going to be another time and that he was going to kill her at this time and i heard my mom screaming for help obviously and then he put his foot on the side of her face and pushed it into the ground and i didn't hear her anymore and sorry and so i went to my mom's room And I went at her end table, and I grabbed her gun.

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12:30 - 13:01 Host

And I went back out, and I went to the door. The door was already open. And he had my mom on the ground still, still holding her to the ground, still kicking her. And I shot him. And nothing happened. He didn't fall. Nothing happened. And then Jeremy.

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13:01 - 13:07 Host

He was sitting in the chair. He was sitting in the chair. Right. I'm not exactly sure. No. Right.

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13:23 - 13:26 Host

From the rear region? Where do you think you shot?

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13:27 - 13:32 Host

I was aiming towards his head, but I'm not sure where the bullet went.

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13:33 - 13:38 Host

Okay. And what happened after you fired the gun?

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13:40 - 13:46 Host

He was just sitting there. I mean, he wasn't moving. Nothing happened. There was no blood. There was no nothing. And then...

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13:49 - 13:52 Host

Okay, let me interject here and there if I may.

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13:52 - 13:52 Host

Okay.

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13:53 - 14:01 Host

Did you feel when you fired that shot that that had to be done or he would have killed your mother?

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14:01 - 14:04 Host

Yes, yes, yes. Firm on that? I'm firm on that.

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14:05 - 14:10 Host

Was he using that type of force in your mind? Yes. Was necessary?

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14:10 - 14:11 Host

Yes.

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14:11 - 14:17 Host

Okay. What happened after you shot him or you believe you shot him?

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14:17 - 14:46 Host

um afterwards jeremy came and he how long it was right like right after it happened like i hadn't even had a chance to walk away move nothing yet and um he came in and he took the gun from me and then he shot him again and that's when he fell to the ground and um my mom had crawled away he fell to the ground jeremy shot him um

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14:49 - 15:10 Host

He told my mom to take us out of the house, take us to school, and that we needed to leave. We're not to tell anybody. We can't tell nobody. We can't call the cops. We can't say anything. Or else he was going to do the same thing to me and my brother. And he was going to, you know, hurt us too. So we went to school.

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15:11 - 15:18 Host

So you leave the residence, go to school. When you get to school, what happens?

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15:20 - 15:51 Host

We get to school. I mean, nothing really happened at school. I would say I was most definitely in shock. But at the same time, it was like because those types of events happen often, I was very used to like, you know, like the violence and seeing things like that. And so I was still able to like perform normally at school. And just kind of, I mean, go about my day, be at school.

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15:55 - 15:56 Host

What time did you get out of school?

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15:57 - 16:01 Host

I was in elementary school, so I think around like 3. Okay.

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16:03 - 16:06 Host

When you came home, was Jay there?

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16:06 - 16:13 Host

Yeah, yes, he was. He was fixing the front door.

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16:16 - 16:23 Host

Was there any evidence of your father in the residence?

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16:25 - 16:31 Host

Did Jeremy make any mention about he'd take care of this or anything like that?

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16:31 - 16:42 Host

Yeah. When he told my mom to take us out of the house and he told us not to tell anybody, he said that he would take care of it.

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16:43 - 16:50 Host

Okay. There was a period of time, I understand, where y'all were intending to build a duck pond, correct?

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16:50 - 16:51 Host

Correct.

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16:52 - 16:55 Host

Tell me about the duck pond and what the plan was there.

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16:56 - 17:19 Host

So we had like a bird farm. We had a bunch of different birds and we needed like a place for the ducks. So we built like this big like hole pond shaped thing, like kind of like an artificial pond. And I remember me and my brother, we got these like little like red plastic shovels. And I mean, we were going to dig the hole, make the pond. And that was like the intended use for it.

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17:19 - 17:23 Host

Did you guys finish it or? No. What did you do?

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17:24 - 17:49 Host

no we never ended up finishing it um we ended up later on turning it into a fireplace okay had there been previous discussions you were going to put a fireplace when you abandoned the duck pond i mean yeah once we decided we weren't going to do the duck ponds we were thinking about either doing a fireplace or like a pool okay after this happened at the house what happened to mom and jeremy

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17:50 - 18:18 Host

They broke up. I mean, the last time that they were really together, I guess, was the day my dad died. They broke up, so obviously they stopped seeing each other. But he would... I remember one time we were at a stoplight, and he pulled up next to our car. This happened on multiple occasions, and he would scream at us from his car, like, tell us to roll our window down.

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18:19 - 18:36 Host

I remember we were going to this Publix, and he would follow us through the store to try and talk to us, and then we switched Publix to a different Publix. He came to that one, too. I remember he came to us in Walmart one time. He was driving by our house, trying to talk to us, talk to my mom.

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18:40 - 18:44 Host

When was the last time that Jeremy drove by the residence that you can recall?

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18:45 - 18:54 Host

At our old house, it was quite a while ago, but we've moved since then, and he has driven by the house we're living at now.

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18:54 - 18:57 Host

When was the last time, you think? How many months ago?

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18:59 - 19:03 Host

It wasn't too long ago, probably less than a year ago.

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19:03 - 19:16 Host

Did you have on the property... A blue tarp. And by that, I mean the type of tarp you see sometimes put over roofs if there's a leak or to cover a boat or an item.

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19:17 - 19:26 Host

Did you have, you know, sometimes you see on boats or other items, straps to hold it down. Did you all have any of those on the property?

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19:27 - 19:30 Host

Frank Merritt, you know, you recall Frank Merritt?

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19:31 - 19:33 Host

Did you ever go to a tractor show? No.

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19:34 - 19:35 Host

Yes, yeah.

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19:35 - 19:39 Host

Was there a man, Frank Merritt, present that you recall?

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19:39 - 19:42 Host

Yeah, we did go. I mean, that's Frank Merritt and yes.

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19:43 - 19:48 Host

Did you recall leaving the tractor show early or anything like that?

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19:48 - 19:56 Host

Yes, I was really, really sick that day and it was really, really hot. I'm really sensitive to the heat. Let me interrupt you there.

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19:56 - 19:57 Host

Do you have any health issues?

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19:57 - 19:59 Host

Yeah, I have like autoimmune issues.

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19:59 - 20:01 Host

Any arthritis or other issues?

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20:02 - 20:08 Host

I mean, I think it's arthritis. We're still trying to figure out what it is. They just have diagnosed me with hypermobility for now.

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20:08 - 20:18 Host

Robert Marcato. Yes. Did you ever observe Mr. Marcato coming to the house to remove your father because of an injunction or any reason?

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20:18 - 20:19 Host

Yes.

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20:20 - 20:24 Host

During that event, did you see your mom waving a gun at him or anything like that?

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20:26 - 20:31 Host

Scott Amatuccio. How often would Mr. Amatuccio come to the residence?

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20:32 - 20:35 Host

He wouldn't come over that often because he did live far.

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20:36 - 20:38 Host

Wilma Nichols. Do you know a Wilma Nichols?

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20:39 - 20:39 Host

Our neighbor?

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20:40 - 20:45 Host

Okay. Did Miss Nichols come by and socialize with y'all at all?

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20:46 - 20:51 Host

No. We've hung out with her probably once when we first moved there.

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20:52 - 21:03 Host

I'd started this with a discussion about your mom being arrested. Do you feel that it's imperative that you step up and tell this jury what happened?

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21:04 - 21:09 Host

I do think it's important that I say what happened, yes.

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21:10 - 21:15 Host

And everything that you've testified before this jury, is it true and is it accurate?

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21:15 - 21:15 Host

Yes.

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21:16 - 21:17 Host

No embellishments?

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21:19 - 21:20 Host

Nobody pressured you?

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21:21 - 21:23 Host

And you've had your own advice of counsel, correct?

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21:24 - 21:24 Host

Correct.

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Thank you. That's all I have. Thank you.

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All right. Thank you. All right, state. Sir, may I please report?

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Yes, sir. Ms. Shaver, you need a minute?

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No, I'm okay.

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You said your birthday's coming up and you're about to turn 16? Mm-hmm. And I'm not trying to pick on you, but these microphones and the recordings are recording everything. Sometimes it's hard to understand mm-hmms and uh-huhs and things like that. So as much as possible, try to remember to say yes and no.

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Okay.

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If you say it, because we all do, I'll probably correct you. Let's just make sure the record's clear, okay? All right. Now... The events that we are talking about obviously are some much longer ago, correct?

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Correct.

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We're talking about stuff that happened in 2015, 2016, correct?

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Right.

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And some of this stuff that you've talked about is even older than that.

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Right.

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And so when we are talking about timeframes in November of 2015, how old would you have been then?

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2015. So I would have been awful at math. Oh my gosh.

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Six and seven years old. Sounds about right. Okay. Okay.

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Yeah.

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And there's obviously been a long passage of time since that. Is that a yes?

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Yes. Sorry. Sorry. That's okay.

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Now, it's fair to say that you don't want anything bad to happen to your mom, correct?

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Correct.

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You said you were very close to your mom. She's like your best friend.

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Yes.

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And that you definitely want your family to stay together.

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Yes, correct. Yes.

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I want to talk to you before we start talking about the event that led to your mother's arrest. I want to talk to you about some of the other stuff that you had mentioned. At one point, you said that your dad would drug your mom to put her to sleep. Do you remember saying that?

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I do.

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Okay. During the course... of this case you've actually been talked to by law enforcement by the children's advocacy center and myself yes and that interview with law enforcement would have been at the time of your mother's arrest in 2020

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Yes.

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Okay. And then you went to the Child Advocacy Center and were asked questions about things that were going on a few months after that, correct?

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Yes, correct.

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And then the deposition where I asked you questions about this was in this calendar year, 2024. Yes. And there are going to be some times that I'm going to go ahead and refer to those various statements. And I've got the transcripts of them so you can review them if it helps refresh your memory. All right. Have you reviewed any of those?

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Yes.

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And previously when you talked about the allegations about your dad, quote, drugging your mom, you were five years old at that point, correct? Yes.

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I believe so.

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Okay. And what you described is you would see him put some sort of powder in a drink and give it to her.

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Yes.

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But when asked what he put in the drink, you didn't know, correct? All right. And you didn't know what it was.

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I don't.

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You don't know where he would get it.

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And quite frankly, you have no idea what he was putting in that drink.

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Yeah.

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Okay. But you don't know where it is or where it came from?

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I don't.

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24:42 - 24:51 Host

All right. Now, the morning that Your father was killed. You are saying that he was not living at the house at the time, correct?

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Correct.

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24:52 - 25:00 Host

And previously you had stated that the last time he had lived at home was before you were in second grade. Do you remember saying that?

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Yeah.

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Is that accurate?

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I would say first, second grade-ish.

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Okay. So you hadn't lived at home at all since you were in first or second grade?

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Yeah.

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25:09 - 25:13 Host

All right. And you were in third grade during the 2015-2016 calendar year, correct?

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I think so.

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Do you need to think about it a little bit, or are you good with that?

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Yeah, I mean, I'm not sure what grade I was in. I did two grades over the summer, so it kind of makes it a little... Okay.

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25:32 - 25:47 Host

Now, if your school records indicated you were in third grade in the school year of 2015-2016, you would be... Yeah, no, I'm just... So second grade would be the 2014-2015 calendar year.

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Okay. Is that correct?

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25:49 - 26:06 Host

All right. So you're saying that he had not lived with you since before August or September of 2014? Yes. Okay. And the event that we're here to talk about, you don't know what grade you were in when that happened, right?

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26:06 - 26:07 Host

I don't.

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Okay. You don't know who your teacher was when this happened, correct?

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Correct.

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26:12 - 26:18 Host

You don't know what month this happened in, correct? Correct. You don't know what year this happened in, correct?

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Yes.

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26:19 - 26:23 Host

You can't think of any holidays that this event was near, correct?

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26:23 - 26:34 Host

No. Not necessarily holidays, but like birthdays. I know it was, I'm pretty sure it was after my brother's birthday. I would say probably spring, summer-ish. Okay.

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And previously you had said you thought it was spring or summer because you had recently been to the beach.

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Yes.

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Okay. And so that's in keeping with your brother's birthday?

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Yes, his birthday is April 1st.

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26:46 - 26:49 Host

And when you say spring or summer, what do you mean by that?

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26:50 - 26:55 Host

Like, I mean, anywhere between spring or summer. I mean, that was so long ago.

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26:56 - 27:10 Host

I understand. Let me try to ask a better question. I may think spring starts in March. You may think spring starts in May. So when you say spring, what months are we talking about here when you're saying spring or summer?

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27:13 - 27:17 Host

Probably starting in like... April, May.

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Okay.

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I feel like that's when like the school year ends is like May. So like that'd be almost summer.

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27:23 - 27:25 Host

And when would summer end to you?

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August, September.

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27:29 - 27:46 Host

So this event that led to you getting a gun, shooting at your father, having him eventually killed in front of you, and then being threatened, having your life threatened. The best you can come up with as far as when this happened is sometime in some year between April and August.

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27:47 - 27:48 Host

Yes.

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27:49 - 27:58 Host

The day that this happened, the events that you have described all happened in between the timeframe that you woke up and went to school that day, correct?

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Correct.

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27:59 - 28:04 Host

And that would be from seven o'clock in the morning till about eight o'clock in the morning, correct?

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28:04 - 28:05 Host

Yeah.

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28:05 - 28:15 Host

And. What you are saying happened is that your father showed up unannounced sometime in that timeframe, correct?

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Correct.

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28:16 - 28:30 Host

You're saying that he hadn't lived there since 2004, since about August of 2014. When was the last time that you had seen him prior to him showing up and having this confrontation with your mother?

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28:30 - 28:53 Host

Last time I saw him, um, I don't remember the exact day or anything. I mean, I remember like certain memories because they weren't good days. Like they, you know, had bad events happen on those days. Cause I mean, like I said, this was so long ago, so I don't remember just like, you know, days. I just remember like those bad events that took place. Okay.

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28:54 - 29:02 Host

In relation to the sign that you saw your father filled in front of you, how long had it been since the last time you had seen your father?

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I would probably say a few months.

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29:05 - 29:07 Host

And you do not remember how he was dressed?

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29:09 - 29:10 Host

I believe he was wearing a pair of shorts.

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29:12 - 29:20 Host

Do you remember previously when I asked you that question in a deposition saying something different? Would it help refresh your memory if I showed you your transcript?

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Yes.

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29:21 - 29:32 Host

Showing you your deposition, page 37. And line 9. I'm going to go ahead and ask you to read to yourself the question on lines 7 and 8, and then your response.

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I said I don't remember. Yeah. Okay. And I also just said that I'm not sure, but I think it was short.

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I understand. I just want to make sure we understand. When I asked you these questions previously this year, you didn't remember them.

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Right.

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Okay. And there's obviously pictures of his dead body wearing shorts. Did you review that before your testimony changed?

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29:56 - 30:03 Host

Okay. So he shows up. You haven't seen him in a long time. An argument starts out on the back porch between your mother and father, correct?

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Correct.

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You went out and saw them arguing.

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30:07 - 30:07 Host

Yes.

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30:09 - 30:22 Host

I believe the way you described it is, and if I have the time frame that this happened, please correct me, but he was sitting in a chair and his foot was on your mother's head, correct?

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Correct.

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30:24 - 30:31 Host

And you described how he was kicking her with his other foot, correct?

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30:32 - 30:54 Host

Yeah, it started out with him kicking her in the stomach, in the back. Then she was screaming. So then he put his other foot on her head to stop her from screaming, pushing her head into the ground, basically suffocating her, choking her. And he continued to kick, but obviously because he's... He's using his other foot now. It wasn't as strong of a kick.

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30:55 - 31:01 Host

As you described it, he's sitting here with one foot not on her neck, on the side of her head.

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Yes, correct.

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31:02 - 31:05 Host

An ear in the back and an ear in the stomach.

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31:05 - 31:05 Host

Yes.

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31:07 - 31:09 Host

You go back in the house, correct?

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Correct.

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31:10 - 31:18 Host

You had a phone. I believe you described it as... an emergency device that you could call 911 in the house, correct?

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Correct.

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31:19 - 31:21 Host

You did not call 911, correct?

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31:21 - 31:22 Host

Correct.

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31:22 - 31:26 Host

And you stated you were never taught how to call 911, correct?

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Correct, but that's not the reason why we didn't call 911. Okay.

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31:32 - 31:35 Host

You go into your mother's room, correct?

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Correct.

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31:36 - 31:37 Host

And you go to her end table.

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Yes, correct.

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And you get her pink and black gun.

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Correct.

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showing you what's been previously entered into evidence. It states 26. Do you recognize this firearm?

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That's not the gun.

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31:52 - 31:53 Host

Okay, so she had a different pink and black gun?

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31:53 - 31:54 Host

Yes.

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31:54 - 31:56 Host

How many pink and black guns did she have?

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31:56 - 32:02 Host

I mean, I'm assuming two. I'm not sure. We had a lot of guns in the house.

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32:02 - 32:07 Host

Okay. So you grabbed some other... How do you know that's not the white one, then?

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32:07 - 32:12 Host

Because the one that I used was not entirely... It was black, and then the handle was pink.

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Okay. So you grabbed her other pink and black gun.

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32:16 - 32:16 Host

Yes.

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32:18 - 32:20 Host

And then you go back outside.

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Yes.

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32:21 - 32:25 Host

And at that point, your father is still sitting in that chair.

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Yes.

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His foot on her head.

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Yes.

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32:29 - 32:30 Host

Is he still kicking her?

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32:32 - 32:32 Host

What's he doing?

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32:33 - 32:45 Host

I mean, he's just kind of yelling at her, like, holding her to the ground with his foot. And he's saying, like, you know, he's going to kill her. It's the last time. Like, they're not working it out because, yeah.

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32:45 - 32:45 Host

Is she on her side?

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She's on her side. She's facing, so her stomach would be facing towards him.

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32:50 - 32:54 Host

And what was she doing?

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Being held to the ground.

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32:55 - 32:56 Host

Was she struggling?

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32:57 - 33:02 Host

Yes. She was trying to call for help and scream, and then he pinned her to the ground with his foot.

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33:03 - 33:23 Host

yes no so you take your mom's other pink and black gun and from about five to ten feet away you shoot correct and you shoot him in the back of the head i think so yes do you ever remember saying that you shot him in the back of the head

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33:23 - 33:24 Host

Yes.

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33:24 - 33:29 Host

Okay. So previously, before today, you definitively said, I shot him in the back of the head, correct?

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Correct.

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But that's changed now.

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33:32 - 33:43 Host

I mean, no, not necessarily. Like, I shot him in the back of the head. I don't know where the bullet went, but that's where I was aiming. That's where I'm pretty sure it hit. Okay. You hit him? Yes, I think. Yes. Okay.

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33:44 - 33:48 Host

And when you hit him, today you said he just sat there, correct?

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Yeah, he sat there and he's like, shaked.

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33:51 - 33:57 Host

Okay. I want to make sure that was clear because you didn't say that on direct. He was almost like seizing, correct?

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Yeah.

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All right. He didn't get up. He didn't move. He didn't try to run.

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Exactly. Yeah.

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Okay. So clearly you hit him.

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Yeah.

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34:04 - 34:14 Host

All right. And then pretty much simultaneously to you shooting your dad in the back of the head, you're saying Jeremy just happened to show up.

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34:15 - 34:28 Host

Like I said, he came there every single morning before school. This was right before school. We already had our clothes on. We were in the middle of eating. Like we were about to leave for school. Like he was there. He came before school.

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34:28 - 34:32 Host

He would come to your house every day before school so that your mom could then take you to school?

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34:33 - 34:35 Host

I mean, he would come with us. They would hang out. His son went to school there.

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34:35 - 34:55 Host

Okay. Now, after he arrives... While your dad is shaking and, as you described, basically seizing in the chair, at this point, the amount of pressure he's putting on your mom's head has released. Is she able to get up?

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34:56 - 34:58 Host

Yeah, she crawls away. She doesn't stand up immediately.

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34:58 - 35:05 Host

Okay. But you're saying Mr. Townsend came over and took your mom's other pink and black gun from you?

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35:06 - 35:07 Host

The same one I had, yes.

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35:08 - 35:09 Host

And shot him again?

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35:09 - 35:09 Host

Yes.

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35:10 - 35:10 Host

Where?

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35:10 - 35:11 Host

In the head.

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35:13 - 35:22 Host

And at that point, he turns around and threatens you and your brother that he's going to kill you as well.

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35:22 - 35:45 Host

Not immediately after he has the gun in his hand, he helps my mom up, and he tells my mom to take us to school. We need to leave the house. And so, I mean, that's when he lets us know, like, no calling the cops. Like, I will do the same thing to you that I did to your father, basically. Saying he will hurt us, he will come after us, he will kill us if we say anything.

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35:45 - 35:46 Host

That shot him in the head.

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35:47 - 35:47 Host

Yes, first.

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35:48 - 35:55 Host

Okay. And... So your mom actually went ahead and took you to school after this?

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35:55 - 35:56 Host

Yes.

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35:56 - 35:58 Host

Okay. Dropped you off like nothing was wrong?

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35:59 - 36:04 Host

I mean, I asked to go to school. We were in the car, and she asked if we wanted to go to school, if we were comfortable, and I said yes.

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36:04 - 36:16 Host

Okay. And you said that you didn't talk to anybody at the school about anything, or you didn't react at all at the school about anything, because as you said, this was normal.

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36:17 - 36:38 Host

No, I mean, I said that I was in shock, but I did not mention this to anybody as I was just threatened not to mention it to anybody. No, it wasn't normal to see somebody die, but having these type of experiences where there's a lot of violence in the house, there's a lot of, like, I mean, trauma and fear, that was normal to experience that and then go to school afterwards.

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36:38 - 36:44 Host

But what she said on direct was you were able to go to school and function just fine. Yes. This was normal.

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36:44 - 36:44 Host

Yes.

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36:45 - 36:51 Host

No one had ever been taken to the hospital before in any sort of incident between you and your mom, correct?

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36:52 - 36:52 Host

Correct.

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36:53 - 37:12 Host

No one had ever been seriously injured in any incidents before where they required medical attention, correct? Correct. And certainly nobody ever died, correct? Now, today you said when you returned from school, Jeremy Townsend was still at your residence.

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37:12 - 37:14 Host

He was. He was fixing the front door.

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37:15 - 37:25 Host

And do you remember previously during your deposition saying that after this happened and you went to school, you never saw Jay back at the house again? Do you remember saying that?

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37:25 - 37:27 Host

Yes, after that day, yes.

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37:28 - 37:35 Host

What I'm saying is after you went to school, you never saw Jeremy back at the house again. Today you're saying when you got back from school, he was there.

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37:35 - 37:37 Host

Yes, he was. He was there.

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37:37 - 37:39 Host

What I'm asking is do you remember saying something?

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37:39 - 37:40 Host

I do remember saying that.

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37:40 - 38:02 Host

Okay. You described Jeremy as coming over and spending the night at the house, not every day, but quite a few days out of the week. That was normal, correct? Correct. When you got back from school that day, you did not notice any changes to the property, correct? Correct. You did have a huge hole in the backyard, as you described, which was going to be a duck pond, correct?

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38:02 - 38:02 Host

Correct.

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38:02 - 38:03 Host

Had that been filled in?

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38:04 - 38:06 Host

I don't know. No. No, it wasn't.

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38:06 - 38:11 Host

Okay. And that was the area that was eventually turned into the cement slab, correct?

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38:11 - 38:11 Host

Uh-huh.

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38:12 - 38:35 Host

Is that a yes? Yes. Sorry. That's okay. Since you sat there, shot your father in the back of the head, and were threatened by Mr. Townsend with your life, you have only once been taken to any sort of counselor or any sort of therapy, correct? That is correct. And that was actually sometime this year, close in time to your death.

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38:35 - 38:49 Host

Actually, no, that's not correct. I think I went when I was little. Me and my brother went. I think it was at a church. I'm not entirely sure if it's classified as counseling or therapy, but... It was pretty much.

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38:50 - 39:04 Host

Let me ask this. Did your mom ever take you to see a counselor to deal with any of the trauma that you, first of all, witnessed right in front of you, but also participated in by shooting your father?

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39:05 - 39:13 Host

I mean, yes, I did go to counseling. When? I think it was probably in this past year, maybe a little bit longer ago. But I, yeah.

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39:13 - 39:14 Host

And that was one time?

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39:14 - 39:14 Host

Yes.

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39:15 - 39:17 Host

Okay. And that was this year?

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39:18 - 39:23 Host

I don't know if it was this year. I think it was the year before. Okay. Yeah.

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39:23 - 39:42 Host

When you shot your dad, that was back in... an unknown year sometime between April and August, correct? Yes. And there was probably at least five years, if not more, because this case has been pending for four years, between any counseling that your mom brought you to, correct?

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39:42 - 39:51 Host

Yes, correct. And the counseling that I went to, it was literally like only one time. Like it was literally only for an evaluation, like nothing more. Yeah.

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39:52 - 40:13 Host

Okay. We previously spoke about the different times you've talked about this event, either with law enforcement, the Child Advocacy Center, or during the deposition that I asked you questions. I'm going to ask you some things about how your stories changed over that period of time, okay? When your mom was arrested, you spoke with Detective Tammy Dale at your home, correct?

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40:13 - 40:13 Host

Correct.

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40:14 - 40:20 Host

And at that time, you said the last time you saw your dad, he worked at an airport, correct? Correct.

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40:21 - 40:22 Host

I think so. Maybe, yeah.

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40:23 - 40:27 Host

And you said, and this was in 2020, the last time you saw him was a few years ago?

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40:28 - 40:35 Host

Yeah. Okay. But 2020 was also four years ago, which was a lot closer to the last time I had seen him. Right.

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40:35 - 40:36 Host

So your memory would be better then.

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40:36 - 40:37 Host

Yeah.

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40:38 - 40:45 Host

Okay. And at that time, she asked you, do you know what happened to him? And you said, I have no clue. Correct?

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40:45 - 40:46 Host

Correct.

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40:46 - 40:49 Host

All right. You also said, I don't know. He just left. Correct?

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40:49 - 40:49 Host

Correct.

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40:50 - 40:56 Host

And the detective asked you if you ever asked your mom where he was. Do you remember that?

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40:57 - 40:57 Host

I guess.

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40:58 - 41:03 Host

And your mom told you she doesn't know because he doesn't talk to us. Correct?

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41:03 - 41:03 Host

Correct.

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41:04 - 41:23 Host

You also went to the Child Advocacy Center to be interviewed that same year. That would have been December of 2020, correct? Correct. And during that time when you were interviewed, you stated the last time you remembered seeing him was when he was arrested in 2014, correct? Correct. And asked if he came back to the house after that, you said, I don't know, correct?

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41:24 - 41:24 Host

Correct.

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41:25 - 41:27 Host

And those pictures that you looked at, when were they taken?

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41:29 - 41:33 Host

The ones that Jeff showed me? Mr. Wig showed me? Yeah.

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41:33 - 41:35 Host

You refer to him by his first name?

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41:36 - 41:40 Host

I do sometimes, yeah. It's not on purpose. It's not to be disrespectful or anything.

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41:42 - 41:43 Host

Clearly talk to him a few times.

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41:44 - 41:57 Host

I talked to him a few years ago, and I didn't tell him the full story. It was kind of just me saying a little bit about my side, and that's when I got my attorney, Ms. Kelley.

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41:58 - 42:04 Host

I'm sorry, I sidetracked you there. Do you remember when those photos that he showed you were?

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42:06 - 42:12 Host

I don't remember necessarily when they were, like the time period or anything.

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42:14 - 42:15 Host

Did you see how they happened?

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42:16 - 42:35 Host

I believe those ones, I don't know exactly what event that one was from. Okay. Because, like I said, there was a lot of events like that. And they all, not all, but most of them ended in kind of the same physically harm. You know what I mean? So I don't know which one that one belonged to.

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42:36 - 42:39 Host

And we're talking about physical harm. We're talking about bruises on the arm, correct?

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42:39 - 42:41 Host

Bruising, blood, yeah.

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42:42 - 43:06 Host

Okay. But the blood that you said you saw in the pictures was your dad's blood? i think so i don't know okay when at the cac interview when they asked you uh you had already said that the last time you remembered seeing him when he was arrested in 2014 and then asked if he ever came back to the house after that you said i don't know correct correct and then specifically you were asked

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43:07 - 43:14 Host

So you did not see anything that happened that would have made you have an idea of what happened to him, and you said no, correct?

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43:14 - 43:14 Host

Correct.

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43:15 - 43:17 Host

One moment. Nothing further, Josh.

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43:17 - 43:20 Host

All right. Thank you, sir. Mr. Wiggs? Just briefly, Josh. Yes, sir.

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43:22 - 43:28 Host

Isabel, there's been a discussion about the guns and multiple guns at the house.

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43:29 - 43:29 Host

Correct, yeah.

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43:30 - 43:36 Host

Tell us about the atmosphere and the amount of guns that you all had in the household.

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43:37 - 43:40 Host

Um, so we talked about my mom's guns.

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43:40 - 43:43 Host

Go slow, but the jury can understand you, okay?

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43:43 - 44:12 Host

um we also had in the living room we had this really big mirror like huge and it was on the wall it was like latched onto the wall by like these so like it could like flip up like this and so behind it was i want to say like a hole but it wasn't really a hole it was kind of like this really deep like divot in the wall and there was like a rack then he stored his guns there so you could like the wall and then the mirror lifted up and there was like guns on the wall

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44:13 - 44:18 Host

Okay. So there were numerous guns within the residence. Is that fair to say?

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44:19 - 44:20 Host

Yes, sir.

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44:20 - 44:28 Host

The question is, as the juries may wonder, how did you learn to fire a handgun?

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44:28 - 44:45 Host

My dad, he was obviously very interested in guns. So he did hunting a lot. We had five acres of land, so we had a lot of space to shoot the guns. And so he always taught us like gun safety or whatever and would take us outside to shoot the guns.

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44:46 - 44:47 Host

Was that a routine thing?

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44:48 - 44:49 Host

Yeah, we did it quite often.

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44:49 - 44:58 Host

Okay. So did you have any trouble or difficulty in pulling the hammer on the gun?

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44:59 - 45:02 Host

I mean, it was kind of difficult. I had to use, like, two hands.

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45:03 - 45:03 Host

Pardon me?

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45:04 - 45:07 Host

It was kind of difficult. I had to use, like, two hands to pull the trigger back.

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45:08 - 45:08 Host

Okay.

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45:13 - 45:21 Host

Mr. Wiggs, at this time, does your client wish to testify? Yes, she does, John. Okay. Is there anything further before we bring the jurors in?

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45:22 - 45:49 Host

Yes, Your Honor. The testimony of Fish Shaver, as it relates to any sort of other acts by her deceased husband, needs to be limited to things that Isabel had knowledge about and was aware of. The only thing that matters as it relates to the prior acts go to what was reasonable for the person acting in defense of others at that time.

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45:50 - 46:13 Host

So the defendant is unable to come up and just testify about all sorts of other things Mr. Shaver may have done to her over the course of their relationship due to the fact that if Isabel Shaver did not observe it, and we've heard what her testimony is at this point, it's not relevant to the state of mind of the person acting in defense of others.

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46:14 - 46:28 Host

So the state would move in limine to make sure that any sort of testimony of any acts by Michael Shaver upon Lori Shaver be confined to the things that have already been testified to about which

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46:30 - 46:57 Host

The person who shot had knowledge of about, which at this point is pretty much limited to the 2014 incident and general discussions of just fighting and there's been very limited discussions of physical abuse. There have been allegations referred to in other documents of being locked in closets and sexual battery and things of that nature and as

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46:58 - 47:08 Host

There's no testimony from the person who shot as to knowledge about any of those things and why they acted in defense of others. Any testimony about that would be irrelevant.

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47:09 - 47:36 Host

Judge, this child just testified that she saw a repeat of acts that impacted her mentally. Now, I know the court has directed we not go into details on events, but I think it's appropriate to talk about circumstances of events that may have impacted the child without still going into details. The child testified it was a monthly issue all the time, stress, batteries, events like that.

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47:36 - 47:42 Host

I think that's appropriate to touch on but not go into specific details. And that, I think, is your order.

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47:43 - 47:44 Host

I'll allow it to that extent. Yes.

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47:45 - 47:54 Host

And I would just say, you know, I don't oppose counsel interjecting or even the court interjecting if you feel it's getting a little outside of where you want it to be.

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47:56 - 47:57 Host

All right. Anything further?

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47:58 - 47:58 Host

Okay.

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47:59 - 49:03 Host

All right. Let's call the jury. All of the members of the jury have returned after a comfort break. Please proceed.

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49:04 - 49:05 Host

May I please the court?

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49:05 - 49:05 Host

Yes, sir.

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49:06 - 49:12 Host

The defense would call Lori Shaver. Ms. Filmer, would you state your name for the record, please?

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49:13 - 49:15 Host

Lori Filmer, previously known as Lori Shaver.

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49:17 - 49:34 Host

Big day in your life, isn't it? Big week. Been several years, hasn't it, Ms. Filmer? Tell me when you're ready, okay? Would you tell the jury who you are and how you met Michael Shaver?

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49:35 - 50:06 Host

I met Michael when we started dating in seventh grade. We lived in a very small town in Lawrence, New York. Our school was K through 12, 500 kids. Our graduating class was like 14, 18 kids. We went to kindergarten together. I met Michael in tech class when they actually did tech class in seventh grade.

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50:08 - 50:34 Host

We reached a period of time where y'all... elected to get married correct yes do you remember when that was may of 2016. okay and at some point in time you all ended up migrating to the state of florida yes okay and do you remember approximately when that was

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50:36 - 51:13 Host

I graduated in 2001. That's college. So Mike was a dropout. He got his GED. He wanted to become a pilot. Didn't have much funding for that. My parents paid for it. I went to school for business administration and focus in health service administration. So I was very socially awkward and Wasn't a popular kid in school. My brother, one of my oldest brothers, I'm the youngest of five.

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51:14 - 51:50 Host

One of my brothers got meningitis at seven weeks. And he was severely mentally retarded. He got picked on a lot. So growing up in a small town that was not acceptable way back then, and I spent all my time in the handicapped classroom. And that was not popular. I was an outcast. He used to get beat up on the bus, and I would stick up for him. I met Mike and had gone to school with him.

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51:50 - 52:09 Host

But in seventh grade, in tech class, we became friends. He was an awkward kid as well because he was kind of like a troublemaker at that time. And I didn't have anybody. He didn't have anybody. We kind of clung together at that point.

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52:10 - 52:18 Host

Okay. So there's some period of time, went by, y'all got married, ended up down here, correct?

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52:18 - 52:18 Host

Yes.

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52:19 - 52:22 Host

Mike wanted to be a pilot, couldn't do that, or what?

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52:22 - 52:24 Host

No, he did. Yep.

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52:24 - 52:25 Host

Okay.

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52:25 - 52:26 Host

He actually did.

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52:27 - 52:29 Host

Okay. Did he fly commercial, or was it a hobby?

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52:30 - 53:02 Host

No. My parents helped him get his personal private pilot's license. He wanted to go on and get his professional pilot license. My parents told him that if he was going to date me, he was going to get his GED and they would help him. He looked to his family to get assistance with that. He was denied. So it took some time. It took a lot of time. But eventually he made his way.

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53:03 - 53:12 Host

He started flying for Pan Am Flight Academy. which is the lower division of U.S. Airways out of New York City.

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53:13 - 53:14 Host

Okay.

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53:14 - 53:15 Host

He was doing good.

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53:17 - 53:24 Host

So eventually you end up down here, and Mike transgresses into another occupation. How did that happen?

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53:24 - 53:56 Host

Well, we first moved, so I worked for MetLife Disability. I worked for them for 15 years, corporate. I worked for them in office. For four years, when Mike finally succeeded in everything, we were able to move. We moved to Florida, Fort Pierce, Florida, when I was seven weeks pregnant with Isabel. We were there for about a year. We moved back to New York. We got hit with our first hurricane ever.

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53:56 - 54:25 Host

It was kind of like a scary thing. We were top tier of an apartment building. A tree came in. We didn't know what to do. We packed up our stuff. We were back in New York three days later. Then after that, we were there for about a year. I was still working for MetLife. But at that time, work from home was kind of becoming popular. And I was able to, again, move my work to Florida.

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54:26 - 54:42 Host

And we moved to Orlando right next to the airport. And I was working from home, had Isabel. And he was commuting from Orlando to New York City on a weekly basis. He was gone for weeks at a time.

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54:42 - 54:45 Host

Okay. What happened next in y'all's life?

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54:47 - 55:06 Host

There was a lot. We just had each other. I don't know how else to explain it. We just had each other. I was a single mom in a new place with no family, no friends. He was a pilot. He was gone all the time. There was no support from either family.

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55:08 - 55:19 Host

Now, we heard from family in this case of Mike's come in and they said, well, we haven't heard from him for this period of time or that period of time. Was he close with his family at all?

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55:21 - 55:23 Host

Did you ever visit them?

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55:24 - 55:25 Host

Stacy? Yes.

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55:26 - 55:28 Host

Did any of them ever visit your residence?

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55:28 - 56:01 Host

Never. They didn't even come to the wedding. But when we were growing up through high school, we would go to Stacy's all the time. Christmas, Thanksgiving, birthdays. I knew Desiree. I knew Danny. And you know that. Every time we would go over there and meet, you and Mike used to always get together and talk about how your dad evaded the whole family.

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56:02 - 56:04 Host

What was the next step in y'all's marriage?

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56:05 - 56:40 Host

So from there, there was a lot of issues. A lot of issues. He was away, gone for over a week. I packed up Isabel. And we had flight privileges. We could fly for free. I packed her up. And when he was gone, took her to New York, where my family was. thinking I could get away, get support, file for a divorce. Everything was good. Rented a house. Everything was good.

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56:40 - 57:09 Host

I was back working at MetLife in the office. My sister works there. She's actually the operations manager now. She's a nurse. She started her way down low. She was actually the one that got me the job, told me that they were doing this mass hiring. And now she's the operations manager of MetLife in Oriskany. So I packed Isabella up. She was just a little over a year old. We went there.

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57:11 - 57:12 Host

And... Where was Spike?

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57:13 - 57:39 Host

Well, he was off on a business trip. But we had... Back then, you used to have flying privileges. You could just... You were just on standby. As long as you could just get on the plane... You could fly anywhere you wanted to for free back then. So that's what I did. I got away. My sister was helping me. We got a house. We rented a house. Everything was perfect.

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57:39 - 58:11 Host

Like, all right, this is going to work. I was seeking attorney in New York, filing for divorce. My mom, I... I joined a gym, and I went to a spinning class one night. I came home that night. My mom was watching Isabel. It was a baby. I went into the shower. When I came out, my mom was not there. I was greeted by a punch in the face.

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58:11 - 58:18 Host

Excuse me. Okay. Let's limit it without physical description.

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58:18 - 58:21 Host

I was greeted by Michael three weeks later.

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58:21 - 58:23 Host

All right.

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58:23 - 58:43 Host

I was out of work for three weeks. And we were all back in Florida three weeks after that. And I was, again, working from home without my family, without any support. And we were living in Davenport, Florida at that time, Champions Gate area.

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58:44 - 58:58 Host

Let's talk, let's transgress into a family environment. Did it ever develop Lori into an atmosphere of, where there was tension, so to speak.

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58:59 - 59:00 Host

There was always tension.

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59:02 - 59:05 Host

Let's talk about the nature of the tension.

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59:05 - 59:12 Host

One moment, please. Yes, sir. I don't want to see pictures.

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59:12 - 59:27 Host

I'm showing you a composite of your wishes. I want you to look through this. All right, that's number two. I have the memories.

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59:27 - 59:28 Host

I don't need to look at pictures.

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59:29 - 59:39 Host

Without articulating the specific facts of those events, did you suffer any injuries at the hands of Michael Shaver?

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59:42 - 59:57 Host

Yes. Who's in that photo? Whose blood is on that shirt, Michael Shaver? Michael's.

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60:00 - 60:05 Host

Was that a consequence of an altercation between you and Michael?

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60:05 - 60:05 Host

Yes.

0
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60:11 - 60:19 Host

When these incidents occurred, would these occur around the Ham family and the occupants of that family?

0
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60:21 - 60:22 Host

Sometimes.

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60:22 - 60:23 Host

Pardon me?

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60:23 - 60:27 Host

Sometimes. Most of the time. I mean, he didn't hide it.

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60:30 - 60:38 Host

Let's talk about your relationship with Isabel. What was your relationship like with Isabel?

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60:41 - 60:43 Host

Like when she was younger or now?

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60:43 - 60:51 Host

Well, when y'all were younger, did Isabel ever develop a feeling or a need to protect you?

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60:51 - 60:52 Host

Objection, Your Honor. Delighted.

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60:54 - 60:56 Host

Did she demonstrate? Did she demonstrate?

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60:57 - 61:06 Host

Isabel grew up really fast. She had to take care of Aiden when I was not able to.

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61:08 - 61:10 Host

As a consequence of these events?

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61:10 - 61:41 Host

Yes. And even to this day, she still... I am not the person to... If you come at me with something, I don't have a comeback. I will shut down. And I will just retreat. She's not that person. She will get right in front of me. Whether we're at the gas station or grocery shopping. There used to be a time period where I could not even go into a grocery store by myself.

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61:44 - 61:49 Host

Were there events wherein you were not free to leave the residence?

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61:50 - 61:50 Host

Yes.

0
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61:53 - 61:56 Host

Would anybody control your freedom of movement?

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61:57 - 62:22 Host

Yes. My, obviously I've gained weight over the years, but my eating was controlled. I had anorexia and bulimia. I probably the way this now, what I did with all four of my kids, but I literally reached for an Oreo one time and was thrown off couch.

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62:24 - 62:33 Host

Now, at some point in time, Michael took a job at Disney, correct? Okay. Do you remember when that was?

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62:33 - 62:59 Host

I don't remember the exact time when we had moved back from New York to Florida. That's kind of when the whole Disney thing came about because he didn't want to leave me alone. I mean, from my presumption, it was because he wanted to be around and, you know, make sure that nothing was going to happen. Or I wasn't going to leave.

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63:00 - 63:03 Host

Was there any attempts to leave, Michael?

0
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63:04 - 63:05 Host

Probably about eight.

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63:06 - 63:06 Host

One moment.

0
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63:07 - 63:31 Host

I'm showing you three documents. Do those pertain to Lori Schaefer and Al Tutman? Yes, sir. Do those documents refer to Michael Shaver? Yes. Do these documents pertain to any acts of violence pertaining to Michael Shaver?

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63:31 - 63:32 Host

Yes.

0
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63:32 - 63:41 Host

Do these documents pertain to injunctions for protection filed on your behalf against Michael Shaver?

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63:41 - 63:44 Host

Yes. And there was an additional one filed by the state.

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63:45 - 63:51 Host

Were those filed on your behalf as a consequence of violence and a feeling of a need for protection?

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63:51 - 63:52 Host

Those three?

0
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63:53 - 64:01 Host

Yes. Was Michael, at points and times, directed to reside outside of the residence?

0
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64:02 - 64:02 Host

Yes, he was.

0
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64:03 - 64:03 Host

By the courts?

0
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64:04 - 64:04 Host

Yes.

0
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64:05 - 64:07 Host

Okay. For the need for your protection?

0
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64:08 - 64:08 Host

Yes.

0
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64:09 - 64:30 Host

And were those injunctions issued as a consequence of violence? We've heard a lot of witnesses that have taken the stand in this case, correct? We heard from Mr. Amituchio, correct? He represented, if I'm not correct, that he was Mike's best friend.

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64:31 - 64:34 Host

He was not as an adult.

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64:35 - 64:46 Host

Mr. Amituchio took the stand and testified to this jury that he was Michael's best friend. Was Mr. Abituccio at the house very often? No. Pardon me?

0
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64:46 - 64:50 Host

No, he was not. Not after we all got married and had kids.

0
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64:52 - 65:05 Host

Mr. Merritt took the stand as well, correct? Correct. And was it Mr. Merritt that declared he had gone to the truck show with y'all?

0
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65:06 - 65:07 Host

Tractor show.

0
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65:07 - 65:12 Host

Tractor show? Okay. Did Mr. Merritt spend time at the residence with y'all?

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65:13 - 65:16 Host

Not very often. I probably seen him twice before that.

0
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65:16 - 65:30 Host

Okay. Now, there was testimony about your mood or something out at the tractor show, correct? Were there any issues going on at the tractor show that the jury needs to know?

0
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65:31 - 65:35 Host

Not prior. It was happening at the tractor show.

0
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65:36 - 65:36 Host

What was happening?

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65:37 - 66:08 Host

Isabel was not feeling well. She was getting sick to her stomach. She was getting dizzy. She was getting hot. She's not able to talk. Her body does not tolerate heat or cold. Like, she becomes very flushed and sick. And I wanted to leave because she was feeling sick. And we were walking a very long time. I mean, hours. And there was no stroller, nothing. I just wanted to leave for her.

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66:08 - 66:31 Host

He did not want to leave. I guess the whole point was for us to go there to maybe get a mutual relationship with Frank and Rita. But... She was sick, and I was, as a mom, I just wanted to leave because she was sick, and he didn't want to leave. I don't know how else to explain it.

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66:31 - 66:43 Host

Okay. There was testimony about contacts with you, and you represented that Michael, you believed he had left or gone to a certain location, correct?

0
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66:44 - 66:46 Host

At what time period?

0
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66:46 - 66:55 Host

There was a witness that testified that you had reported... That he had gone to Georgia or New York or somewhere.

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I had received a message from Stacy.

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Who's Stacy? His sister. Okay.

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67:03 - 67:31 Host

She had contacted me saying that she hadn't heard from Michael. And I told her I did not either. And she said, well, his mom is sick. So... If you can, if you hear from him, or you can let, I said, if I hear from him or I will let one of his friends know that his mom is sick so that they can relay the message. Frank Merritt came by. I told him that his mom was sick.

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So if he's seen him, to let him know. Frank Merritt was not close with us. So I never told him that he went to Georgia. I said he went to go see his mom. Here is the misconception. His mom, Sharon Shaver, the one that was sick, lives in New York. Frank Merritt did not know the family well enough at that time.

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He automatically assumed, in my mind, that he went to Georgia to see his stepmom, Sharon Shaver.

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I see.

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I never made the statement he went to Georgia. I said he possibly could have went to go see his sick mom.

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68:19 - 68:41 Host

We also heard other witnesses testify, correct? There was testimony about a sale of guns, correct? Now, my understanding, y'all had a relatively large cache of guns around the house. Is that correct? Pardon me? Yes. Okay. Was Mike collecting guns?

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What was his... He had a hobby of building them.

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I see. Okay. So Mike would build guns, sell them out on the market somewhere?

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For his friends. He built them and would just keep them, collect them.

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68:56 - 69:08 Host

Okay. And with regards to the guns, we heard Isabel testify... that Mike had dealt with the guns and been training the kids how to fire guns? Yeah.

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They knew gun safety.

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Okay. Did he practice this with them?

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Yes, he did.

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Did Isabelle know how to fire a gun?

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Yes.

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Okay.

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69:18 - 69:47 Host

Everybody did. We had the five acres. There was targets. We used to go to the gun range as well, but we taught them how to, various guns, check to see if they were loaded, unloaded, how to fire. And he would have them walk around the house after they checked to see if they were unloaded or whatnot, walk around the house with them pointing down, teaching them not to point at anybody.

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Even with Nerf guns, they were not allowed to point them at people, things like that.

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69:55 - 70:03 Host

Okay. There came a period of time because of these injunctions that were filed that Michael was out of the house, correct?

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Yes.

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And there came a period of time you started dating other people.

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Right.

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70:11 - 70:31 Host

Was it Mr. Bray? Who was it? Ballou. Pardon me? Ballou, wasn't it? Yeah. You dated Mr. Ballou. Was he married or single? Okay. Did y'all date long? Okay. Did he have any issues with Michael?

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Yes.

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70:36 - 70:46 Host

Then at some point in time, you met Jeremy Townsend, correct? Tell us how you met Jeremy, where you met Jeremy.

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I met Jeremy at the school.

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At the school?

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Not at the park. Okay.

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Okay.

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70:53 - 71:22 Host

He had an opal color truck. I had a white truck. There was two lanes coming out. And we were both there at the same time. This was the end of August. And he rolled down the passenger window and handed me a sticky note. And I grabbed it. And I said, I know what you're going through. I can help you. Call me. And he gave me his number.

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Why would he suggest that?

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I had marks on my face.

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Okay.

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I wasn't, I mean, yeah.

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So did you call Mr. Townsend?

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Okay.

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71:43 - 71:54 Host

Now, Mr. Townsend testified that this was kind of an informal relationship. He characterized it as one of friends with benefits, correct?

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Yes.

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71:55 - 72:00 Host

Okay. Did Mr. Townsend lead you to believe that he was single?

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72:00 - 72:01 Host

Yes.

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72:01 - 72:13 Host

Okay. There's digital data that's been introduced. They have text, I believe. Does some of that contradict his statement here in court?

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Well, that's why I asked. Why did you lie to me?

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Pardon me?

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That's why I asked. Texts that were introduced today. Why did you lie to me?

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Why is that?

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Because I didn't. He was separated from his wife. And then I found out that he was now back together with her. So I said, why did you lie to me? Why all of a sudden are you wearing your wedding ring again?

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I see. Did Jeremy come by the house often?

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Every day.

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Every day?

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Every day.

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72:44 - 72:47 Host

Morning, night, what times?

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72:47 - 73:15 Host

He would come by in the mornings. Well, initially, we would meet at the school. He would drop his son off when our relationship first started, and I would have Isabella and Aiden, and we'd show up early, and we'd sit in the school car line, and he'd come back to the truck. where I had my kids and we'd all just converse in the morning while we sat there and waited until school started.

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73:16 - 73:42 Host

Sometimes Vanessa would come out and get Trent out of his truck early and take him in because she was a teacher there. And then he would leave, go off to work. He worked in, he did landscaping. He had a partnership landscaping business. And I worked from home. So from there, probably in December, because prior to that, I did Beachbody from home. I was doing Beachbody sales from home.

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73:43 - 74:05 Host

Social anxiety. I had never, ever, ever, ever been to a gym before. He was going to Gold's Gym, which I don't remember what Austin said it's called now. But anyways, it was the Gold's Gym where he was a member of. And I was like, okay, that's fine. But I don't know how to use anything. I'm not going to go in and do it because I only worked out from home through videos.

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74:05 - 74:32 Host

So he goes, no, I know somebody there. It was a female because I wasn't comfortable with males. And he set me up with Rebecca Filmer, a personal trainer. That's how I met Austin and Becca. Becca and I became really close. We would go out dancing on Fridays. My social life just kind of expanded from there. I started to see that there was a life outside of my home.

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I mean, little as it was, but it was still nice.

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74:37 - 74:43 Host

Now, did you ever confide in Jay about your situation with Mike? No.

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74:44 - 75:09 Host

Yes. So that all happened at the beginning. Obviously, he had seen that I had marks on my face. So I called him and we did meet at the park after that to talk. And that's, we met a few times. And it was just talking, friendship. And it was nice to have somebody to talk to, but he told me about his history in the military.

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He also told me that he was a bodyguard for some professional boxer, and I cannot remember the name. He would travel and be his bodyguard whenever he was on tour. He told me that he was in special op. He served on the Bush administration in Washington, D.C., as security. Tons of stuff. Sniper, told me everything.

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75:34 - 75:48 Host

Okay. We saw those contradictions with his testimony, correct? Mm-hmm. Did Mr. Townsend make any representations to you that he would protect you from Michael?

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Yes, from the very beginning.

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Okay.

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75:51 - 76:17 Host

Tell me if I ever needed anything, that I could contact him. And it was, he was always on top of it. If Becca and I went out dancing in the evening, he would come over. He would see me before we went out. And while we were out, he would call. And we would have to send him a picture to show him that we were there where we were.

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76:17 - 76:30 Host

And when I left, I would have to let him know that I was on my way home. And then also let him know that I had gotten home. He knew everything. He had everything. He kept track of me every step of the way.

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76:32 - 76:43 Host

Let's talk about the event that's landed you here. Shift gear over there, okay? Michael was out of the house at that time?

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Yeah.

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Is it my understanding he'd been living at the airport?

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76:49 - 77:24 Host

Yes. So the battery had happened in 2004. The state imposed an injunction. DCF was involved. Mike went through counseling, everything like that. Mike was all that I knew. And during that time period, we both dated other people. I mean, you all heard that. Once everything was up, I guess you could say, we started talking again.

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77:25 - 77:32 Host

But DCF had been in the house, and they said that as long as he was not in the picture, everything was okay.

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But if he came back... They were going to take action.

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77:37 - 78:10 Host

Yeah. So they had offered... To move me and the two kids, change our names, change our socials. We had already moved so much. We finally were in a good school. The kids had good friends. And there was a point where Isabel had asked, you know, is this where we're going to live now? And I said, yep, we're never moving again. This is where we're staying. I went to a great school, great friends.

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78:11 - 78:30 Host

So when DCF came in and offered that, I'm like, nope, I'm strong now. I'm going to go to counseling. I went to Celebrate Recovery for codependency. I was going to livestream counseling. I thought I had it. So I'm like, nope, I'm going to stand my ground.

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Okay.

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And so I didn't leave. Dated. Obviously, those relationships sucked, failed. And I went back. I left Michael.

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Did it work out?

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78:46 - 79:21 Host

Nope. We tried. He was back in the house maybe two weeks. Well, in September of 2014, he was back in the house two weeks. And then I should have learned my lesson then, but I didn't. And then in 2015, when we had gotten back together, Wilma Nichols, our neighbor, very nosy lady, Mike would go to work. We would pick him up at L.J. Yates' house, who has not testified. L.J. Yates lived on 33.

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79:21 - 79:45 Host

He also worked at Disney. Mike would drive home. From Disney to his house. And we would pick him up there and bring him back to the house. And he would duck so nobody would see him. And then he would sleep there all day. He built a privacy wall on our back patio so Wilma couldn't see. And she had to put a gate so that she could just come over whenever she wanted.

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79:45 - 80:01 Host

So we put a lock on there so she couldn't do that. And then he worked overnights. So about 7 o'clock we would take him back. To LJ's house, and then he would go from there to work, and we continued that for a long time.

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80:03 - 80:09 Host

Okay. So this in the house, out of the house, that continued on and off, correct?

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80:09 - 80:09 Host

Yes.

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80:10 - 80:20 Host

Okay. So there did come a point in time. When you were later with Jeremy, correct? So that's later in time, correct, to those events?

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80:20 - 80:44 Host

Yeah. It was a couple months later. Like I said, school had just started. I had went to school without dropping the kids off, whatever. I had marks on my face. Jeremy noticed. He sent me a message. I started talking to him. Obviously talking to him, him reassuring me. He was saying all the right things. I kind of felt for it. I'm not denying that. I did. It was nice, right?

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80:44 - 81:11 Host

Because now I'm back into... Solid ground. Yeah. And it wasn't working, and I'm like, I'm right back into it. So, my birthday, Jeremy and I had talked about plans to go out shopping, going to the movies, going to hurricanes. You know, just hanging out for the day while the kids were in school. Mike was still in the house at that time.

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81:13 - 81:32 Host

And I had told him that I had just wanted to go out for the day, go shopping, get my nails done, whatever. And he absolutely refused. Refused. So I threw a fit as I was walking away from him. Well, he had given me my birthday presents as I was walking away.

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81:32 - 81:53 Host

He threw a... Let's not talk about specific events, okay? Okay. Okay. But there was an altercation arising out of that confrontation, correct? Okay. And so eventually, I take it, Michael's out of the house at a period of time. Okay.

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81:53 - 81:57 Host

So I kicked him out. I think it was November 10th.

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81:57 - 82:07 Host

Okay. We heard testimony from one witness that you were waving a gun at Michael, threatened him. Some witness, he said he got in between you.

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82:08 - 82:09 Host

That was Robert Ricardo.

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Robert Ricardo. Did that ever happen?

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82:12 - 82:13 Host

No, it did not.

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82:13 - 82:15 Host

Why was Robert Ricardo at the residence?

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82:16 - 82:41 Host

We were all hanging out. Barbecue, whatever. I honestly don't remember. We were all on the back porch. There was drinking involved. Mike became irate. I went into the bedroom. He tried coming over me at the dresser. Robert stood in between. He separated him. Mike left the property. We couldn't get a hold of him. We called 911 in fear of Michael doing something to himself.

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82:42 - 82:51 Host

There was a 911 call for that. They did make contact with him, and that was that. But no, there was no gun involved on that evening.

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82:51 - 83:00 Host

Okay. The gun that's been introduced in the evidence, was this gun used in the commission of this case?

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83:00 - 83:01 Host

No, it was not.

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83:02 - 83:03 Host

What happened to that gun?

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I've never seen it again.

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Who would have taken it?

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Jeremy was the last one that had it.

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83:09 - 83:20 Host

Let's transgress into this event that led to these charges. Lori, okay? Do you remember the event? You're in the house, correct?

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I was in the house initially. Michael did not enter the house.

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83:27 - 83:31 Host

Okay. Was it morning, noon? Take us through it.

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Morning.

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83:32 - 83:35 Host

Okay. And tell the jurors how this transpired.

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83:36 - 84:01 Host

I got up the whole, got my coffee, and then that's when I noticed he was sitting out on the back patio. We had two tables. There was like one long line, and then there was a smaller round table with two chairs. I seen him sitting there. So I got the kids. I don't remember if it was Pop-Tarts, breakfast bars, whatever. They're Ovaltine. They always had Ovaltine. They had tables in their bedrooms.

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84:02 - 84:25 Host

I went in and got them their clothes, gave them their breakfast, turned on the TV, and I just said, you know, get your breakfast, get ready for school, which they did. Just like every other morning, I'm going to go out and take care of the animals. We had over 400 birds. We had pigs. I rescued a horse. There was lots of animals on the property.

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84:26 - 84:52 Host

So that was not a normal for me to go outside while they were inside getting ready. So I went out there, but I knew he was sitting out there. I could see him through the kitchen window out in the back patio. So I went out there. And we started talking and it escalated. I went to walk back in because this wasn't going anywhere and he was not leaving. And I opened the sliding glass door to go in.

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84:52 - 85:21 Host

And when I did that, he took my phone and slammed it up against the sliding glass door. There was an imprint of my phone on that sliding glass door. He grabbed my arm, pulled me down into his lap. And the furthest chair that was... I don't have a picture in front of me, but the sliding glass door, there was like a post. And there was a... We had like a bistro table sitting there in front.

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85:22 - 85:41 Host

And on this further side, I guess, in front of the sliding glass door, there was a chair. So he had pulled me down in his lap. He was holding on to me. And at that point... I was just trying to convince him, like, okay, okay, okay. We'll work it out.

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85:41 - 85:44 Host

What's he saying to you during that, Maury?

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85:46 - 85:58 Host

He's just, he's, I was talking at that point. I was scared. That's what I'm saying. Okay, okay, okay. We can work it out because that's what I did every single time because I was scared. And he told me not this time.

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85:59 - 86:02 Host

Was he upset about anything in particular that you're aware of?

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86:03 - 86:06 Host

Yes, he found out I had gotten pregnant.

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86:07 - 86:08 Host

From Jay?

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86:08 - 86:08 Host

Yes.

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86:09 - 86:14 Host

Okay. So is he mentioning that in his discussion or what?

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86:15 - 86:23 Host

Oh, yeah. Yeah. I mean, not at that time. It was previously before he pulled me into his lab. But, I mean, he knew.

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86:23 - 86:25 Host

Okay.

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86:26 - 86:30 Host

So I was like, okay, okay, okay, we'll work it out. Because at that point, I had already had the abortion.

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86:32 - 86:37 Host

So are you facing the house or facing away from the house? Tell us your direction.

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86:38 - 86:43 Host

I'm facing, looking out the back. I'm on the back porch, but I'm not looking into the house.

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86:44 - 86:49 Host

Okay. Now, he spins you around, and you're in the chair, I take it?

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86:49 - 86:51 Host

I'm in his lap. He's holding me there.

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86:52 - 86:52 Host

Okay.

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86:52 - 86:54 Host

And then he pushed me to the ground.

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86:54 - 86:58 Host

Okay. As he pushes you to the ground, does he do anything? No.

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86:59 - 87:03 Host

After he pushed me to the ground, he was kicking me in the stomach.

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87:03 - 87:06 Host

Okay. Presuming you were pregnant or something.

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87:06 - 87:11 Host

Yeah, and I had already told him I had the abortion, and I was screaming at that point.

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87:11 - 87:17 Host

Okay. Is he making any threats to do any harm to you, any serious bodily harm?

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87:19 - 87:23 Host

Yeah, I mean, he said not this time. He said I was not getting away.

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87:23 - 87:24 Host

Okay.

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87:24 - 87:34 Host

Not this time. I mean, we had been through so many events, but that's not the first time. I mean, he had pulled a gun out. He had Publix in Claremont. This was not the first time.

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87:34 - 87:43 Host

Okay, let's not talk about prior events. Okay? Yeah, I'm sorry. So you're on the ground, and he's kicking you.

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87:43 - 87:45 Host

In the stomach.

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87:45 - 87:47 Host

Okay. Is he kicking you hard?

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87:47 - 87:49 Host

Yes. Okay.

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87:50 - 87:57 Host

Is he making any... Okay. Is he making any statements of any intent to kill you or anything of that nature?

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87:58 - 87:58 Host

Yes.

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87:58 - 88:05 Host

Okay. Is he speaking in such a level that the children could hear this?

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88:05 - 88:06 Host

Oh, yeah. We both were.

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88:07 - 88:07 Host

Okay.

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88:08 - 88:08 Host

I was screaming. Okay.

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88:09 - 88:16 Host

Okay. As he's doing this, and he's not relenting on it, did he have his foot anywhere?

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88:16 - 88:26 Host

Well, that went on for a few minutes, and then he put his foot on my face.

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88:27 - 88:27 Host

Okay.

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88:27 - 88:32 Host

Smashing it into the patio, porch, whatever you want to call it.

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88:32 - 88:38 Host

As he has his foot on your face, sit on the front of your face, the side of your face.

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88:38 - 88:47 Host

I was facing him. Now I'm facing, I'm curled up facing the house. And he, it was just like this.

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88:49 - 88:52 Host

Is he continue to yell? Is he yelling at you?

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88:53 - 89:05 Host

Not at that point. No, no. We were sitting there and I could not yell anymore. He's just sitting in the chair as he's smashing my face into the porch.

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89:06 - 89:07 Host

What's the next thing you recall?

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89:09 - 89:24 Host

The next thing I see is, I can't even say I seen her. I more or less heard it. And then I think I seen her.

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89:25 - 89:28 Host

When you say her, who are you referring to?

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89:28 - 89:28 Host

Isabel.

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89:30 - 89:32 Host

Isabel. What's Isabel do?

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89:38 - 89:38 Host

Okay.

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89:39 - 89:47 Host

Now, when Isabel fires this gunshot, do you see where it lodged into Michael or what?

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I could not.

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89:48 - 89:51 Host

Where are you after Isabel fires the gun?

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89:51 - 89:52 Host

Still on the ground.

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89:54 - 89:57 Host

And the next thing you recall?

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89:59 - 90:08 Host

The next thing I recall is seeing Jay, Jeremy, and hearing the gunshot essentially at the same time.

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90:09 - 90:16 Host

Is there much time that goes by between Isabel shooting the gun and Jay taking out our journey?

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90:17 - 90:21 Host

No. It felt like forever. I remember looking at her.

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90:21 - 90:23 Host

Had you gotten off the ground?

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90:23 - 90:28 Host

No. No, I had not. Michael was still sitting in that chair.

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90:29 - 90:42 Host

After Jay comes, you hear Jay discharge the firearm. And after Jay discharges the firearm... What do you hear next or observe next?

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90:44 - 90:50 Host

Well, at that point, I started crawling away, but Michael fell forward out of the chair.

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90:51 - 90:52 Host

Fell forward on the chair?

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90:53 - 90:53 Host

Out of the chair.

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90:53 - 90:57 Host

Okay. Was that after Jeremy shot or after Isabel shot?

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Jeremy.

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90:59 - 91:05 Host

After Jeremy makes that shot into Michael, what happens after that?

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91:06 - 91:09 Host

I got up. We went into the house. We went into Isabel's room.

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91:10 - 91:12 Host

Who has the gun at that point?

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91:12 - 91:18 Host

I don't recall that he had the gun. I don't know. He was the last one with the gun.

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91:18 - 91:21 Host

Okay. Did you see Isabel carrying it after that?

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91:21 - 91:28 Host

No, no. But it wasn't carried into her room where we were having a conversation.

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91:28 - 91:36 Host

Now, Jeremy makes that shot. You get up. You go into the house. Are any statements made by Jeremy there?

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91:37 - 91:56 Host

Yes. So he tells me to take the kids, get them out of the house, and he would take care of it. He insinuated that if we said anything, that she would be taken away. And he said that he was not going to take the blame for this.

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91:57 - 91:58 Host

So what did you do?

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92:00 - 92:07 Host

I took the kids. I left. That's what I always did. I took the kids and I left.

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92:08 - 92:09 Host

Where did you take them?

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92:10 - 92:27 Host

I took them to school. I wanted to get back home. I did not know what was going to happen after that, but I wanted to get the kids out. And the only place I had to take them was school. It wasn't that far away.

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92:28 - 92:34 Host

So you take the kids to school, come back to the house. Is Michael there?

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92:36 - 92:37 Host

Is Jay there?

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92:38 - 93:03 Host

No. No. No. And we had a conversation with Aiden. I remember that. He had obviously heard commotion. He didn't know what happened. He didn't see it. He was in his room, which was at the further end of the house. And I had just told him, your dad's gone away for a long, long time and insinuated that he was going to jail.

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93:05 - 93:13 Host

Now, did you see any fresh dug holes on the property as you walked about it or moved about it beyond that point?

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93:15 - 93:23 Host

When Jeremy said, I'll take care of this, did you have any reason to believe that that body was on your property?

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93:23 - 93:36 Host

No, never. There's no way he could have. I wasn't gone that long where he could have. Finding out the dimension? No. Mm-mm. He came back. It was probably about 2 in the afternoon.

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93:37 - 93:42 Host

Now, did you know whether or not his family had property elsewhere?

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93:42 - 93:42 Host

Yes.

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93:44 - 93:48 Host

Did you make any assumptions that it may have been taken somewhere else?

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93:49 - 94:00 Host

And I had questioned him about that. They had 30 acres. He said 5. He had told me 30 acres. I don't know what's true or what's not anymore. But I was told they had 30 acres. I asked him that.

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94:01 - 94:06 Host

After that event, What happened to your relationship with Jeremy?

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94:06 - 94:32 Host

It ended. I had found out. I mean, I became pregnant. We were talking about getting engaged. We went and looked at houses. And then I find out that he's now trying to work it out with his wife. And then that happened. And I was so overwhelmed at that point. I ended it.

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94:32 - 94:45 Host

The relationship ends between the two of y'all. You go on with your life. At some point in time, you meet Travis. Yes. When did Travis come into your life?

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94:45 - 94:46 Host

At the end of May.

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94:46 - 94:47 Host

Pardon me?

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94:48 - 94:59 Host

He came by the house at the end of May. My sister was there. He came by. Becca, Austin were there. We had a get-together, and he was there.

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95:00 - 95:10 Host

Did you have any discussion with Travis and relay that, you know, Michael was dead or any discussion about that?

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95:10 - 95:13 Host

No. I never mentioned it to anybody.

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95:14 - 95:20 Host

There later came a point in time when this patio was built, correct? The fire pit?

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95:22 - 95:22 Host

Yeah.

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95:23 - 95:31 Host

Tell us, we've heard circumstances about that. How did that end up and why did that end up being placed at that location?

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95:33 - 96:05 Host

It was a big open area in the backyard. When Jeremy and I were together, it was an idea that we would lay concrete down. He was supposed to help me with it. That's why the concrete was bought in January of 2016, I think it was. We sat down, we talked about the dimensions of it, and he was explaining to me how to calculate how much concrete you would need and whatnot. I went out and bought it.

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96:06 - 96:13 Host

And then bought it, unloaded it into the shed. And it sat there until September, later that year.

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96:14 - 96:29 Host

And then you had broken up with Jeremy, correct? And then later you take up with Travis. Correct. Correct. And eventually this fire pit gets dug, correct? Or had been dug, prepped for a duck pond, correct?

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96:29 - 96:31 Host

They didn't dig anymore. Yeah.

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96:32 - 96:35 Host

It had been dug out, my understanding, for a duck pond, correct?

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96:35 - 96:38 Host

Yeah, previously. That was even previous to Jeremy.

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96:39 - 96:46 Host

Yeah. And y'all abandoned that attempt or effort. So you move on.

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96:47 - 96:52 Host

I mean, it was just like, it was just an outline. We didn't even dig deep into it.

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96:53 - 97:00 Host

So Travis comes along, some time passes, and y'all elect to put the patio there.

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97:00 - 97:02 Host

Yeah, that was the original plan.

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97:03 - 97:06 Host

You've broken up with, Travis.

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97:06 - 97:06 Host

Jeremy.

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97:07 - 97:21 Host

Jeremy. Excuse me. I apologize. You've broken up with Jeremy. Now, Wilma next door testified that they detected an odor about your property. Was there any odor floating about on your property?

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97:23 - 97:50 Host

No. I mean, we had rescued one pig. We got another, a wild male and female. They had babies. And Robert Seha and his wife, they had horses. They also had dogs. They were renting the back property to keep some of their horses. And they had dogs. And... There was a few occasion where the dogs had come up and with the little pigs, it's not a pretty sight.

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97:50 - 98:18 Host

So I don't know if that's what she was smelling. And with the birds, like I said, with 400 birds, we used to slaughter them. I used to cut the chicken meat. We had ducks, guinea fowl, quail. We had tons. I had a license to sell. We sold to a restaurant in Winter Garden. There was an obvious odor. Yes.

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98:19 - 98:28 Host

So when y'all prepped this area and you put the patio down, did you and Travis put your initials in the concrete?

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98:28 - 98:28 Host

We did.

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98:30 - 98:39 Host

Would you have done that if you knew there was a body underneath there? Would you have posted photographs on the Internet or on social media?

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98:39 - 98:41 Host

Absolutely not.

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98:41 - 98:44 Host

If you had knowledge that there's a body underneath there?

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98:44 - 99:11 Host

Absolutely not. If I knew, everything would have changed, everything that occurred. The only reason why we laid the patio when we did was because we were trying to have this huge birthday party for Isabel. Robert Seha and his wife, they had the horses. And we invited essentially everybody from Pine Ridge to the house. And they were going to have the horses going through the backyard.

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99:11 - 99:25 Host

And the kids could do hand printing on them. So we did that. So we were just trying to level everything out, make it look nice, have a gathering place. That's all that it was. That's why it wasn't placed until right before her birthday in September.

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99:26 - 99:28 Host

place for people to stand and sit on.

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99:28 - 99:39 Host

Yeah, just to level the ground out. I mean, it was sitting in the shed, had been sitting there since the beginning of the year. We just decided that was the right time to do it.

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99:40 - 99:54 Host

Now, there's been talk about and documents introduced regarding this social media, Facebook, etc. Do you know who posted some of those images, any of those images?

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99:55 - 99:55 Host

On my...

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99:55 - 100:08 Host

There's images from your account, Michael's account, other accounts. Did Jay have access to social media at your house?

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100:09 - 100:36 Host

Yes. Oh, a lot of people did. Everybody had access to the Wi-Fi password. It was America One. Scotty Matuccio, Jay, Frank, Wilma, everybody. You could not be at that house without being connected to Wi-Fi if you wanted to have connection to anything. We kept the password straight. It was America One. Everybody knew it. I posted those things on my Facebook.

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100:36 - 100:39 Host

I did not post those things to Michael's Facebook.

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100:40 - 100:48 Host

There's timeframes where the states made issue of this account being open and that account being open. Do you have any explanation for that?

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100:48 - 101:00 Host

I don't. I mean, I was on Facebook every single day. My job required me to investigate people, so I was always on the Internet, social media, investigating people.

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101:01 - 101:32 Host

We've heard testimony as well that those accounts can be accessed remotely, off-site, and contain the same IP address, correct? Yes. That somebody can be in the house, sharing the same router, sharing the same IP address, correct? Yes. We've seen, and the state has introduced into evidence at this stage, a tarp that was in this pit. Did y'all have ownership of a blue tarp?

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101:34 - 101:40 Host

Not at that point. We had a tarp when we got a pool. I know Travis bought a tarp to put under the pool.

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101:41 - 101:43 Host

Later when you were with Travis?

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101:44 - 101:48 Host

Did you have one at the time of the demise of Michael Shaver?

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101:49 - 101:50 Host

Not to my knowledge.

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101:51 - 101:58 Host

Did you have the strap wrenches that were introduced or the straps themselves on your property?

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101:59 - 102:07 Host

No, not to my knowledge. When I went and got the concrete and stuff, I did not do anything with strap wrenches or anything like that.

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102:08 - 102:17 Host

The laminate flooring, the laminate flooring that was testified to, did you have the same or similar laminate flooring on your property?

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102:17 - 102:46 Host

No, no. The flooring, the remodeling that was done was done before we even moved in. When we bought that house, we got it at a really good price. It was kind of, it wasn't in foreclosure, but the inside essentially looks like it was in foreclosure. There was, the floors and the rooms were destroyed from previous dogs. And I'm OCD and very clean. And we hired somebody to come in and clean it.

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102:46 - 102:56 Host

And Michael went in and changed all the flooring in that house before I would allow us to even move in and bring the kids in there because it was disgusting.

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102:57 - 103:06 Host

Was Austin Fillmore, or Austin, was he at the house when that pit was poured, the patio?

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103:07 - 103:07 Host

No. No.

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103:07 - 103:09 Host

He testified he was.

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103:09 - 103:35 Host

He was not. He was not there. Travis and I did that ourselves. And originally, Travis thought he could do it by himself, and then he went and rented the mixer. We didn't realize that, I mean, it was a big area. He had never done that before. I don't know. I guess he thought it was going to be easier just mixing up some bags, but that's why he ended up going and running the mixer.

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103:36 - 103:54 Host

We saw the photographs of the distance between the residence and the gravesite. Did you back at that period of time, and we see your photos, were you that physical size back in that time period?

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103:55 - 104:00 Host

Did you have the physical capability even of moving that body?

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104:01 - 104:19 Host

160 pound man? No. No. When I was at the gym working out, I could probably do 30 pounds. Prior to getting a personal trainer, I was working out from home with just hand weights. Did I have an endurance? Yes. I ran marathons.

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104:20 - 104:31 Host

Lori, the jurors are going to ask themselves, why didn't you call the police? Scared? Scared of what Jay had said or Jeremy had said?

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104:32 - 104:53 Host

I didn't know what to do. I had just been beaten. Like, everything just happened so suddenly. I didn't know what to do. That's why all I wanted to do was get the kids out and get back home. And when I came back home, he was not there. Jeremy was not there. And I could not get a hold of him. He came back that afternoon.

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104:53 - 104:59 Host

There was testimony Isabel gave about after you broke up with Jeremy.

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105:00 - 105:26 Host

about him continuing to follow you yes okay tell the jurors about those events there was times i think isabella mentioned i went to go i was already dating travis i went to go pick him up from the church and i'm at the intersection and jeremy's there right beside me yelling and screaming at me to roll down the windows and then proceeds to follow us to real life

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105:28 - 105:52 Host

We used to shop at the Publix Claremont 27, and he would just pop up and then start questioning, you know, what are you guys doing? Where are you going? Have you said anything? Make sure you don't say anything. So then we started going to the Publix in Groveland, and all of a sudden he would start showing up there. Target, same thing. Walmart, that's where he showed me his tattoo.

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105:53 - 106:12 Host

It was the summer of 2016, and I was with Travis. And he lifted up, we were in the cereal aisle at Walmart, and he lifted up his shirt and showed me his tattoo in front of my kids and everybody else standing in the aisle of a skull.

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106:14 - 106:15 Host

It was a skull?

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106:16 - 106:20 Host

Did Jeremy occasionally drive by the residence?

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106:20 - 106:44 Host

Yes. So when we moved... Got this place, and we put six cameras up outside our property because we noticed there was an increase in traffic. And I was really paranoid going anywhere. I mean, I look at my surroundings before I get out. I was always afraid that he was following. I mean, I had...

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106:45 - 107:09 Host

was picking the kids up for school before we even had moved and he had gotten out of his truck and ran down the middle of the road straight at my truck yelling and screaming in front of the school on multiple occasions trying to get me to converse with him i had agreed to meet him on a couple occasions yes for like 10 minutes and we would have conversations of like nope haven't said anything.

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107:09 - 107:36 Host

He wanted me to wait for him, wanted everything to settle down with his wife, and I refused. So when we moved, once somebody was found, I lost my dog. Travis was a youth leader at the time. He started working for a granite company. Finances had gotten really tight. We found a home that we could afford. We got the cameras, and Jeremy was caught on those cameras on a couple occasions going by.

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107:37 - 107:41 Host

If I'd seen him now, I would not recognize him if he was standing in front of me.

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107:42 - 108:03 Host

Go back a bit. You spoke about, and you have images, clear images, as to the events that would happen on a regular basis. Let's reflect back on that, though. Were these acts events that would cause serious bodily harm to you?

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108:05 - 108:10 Host

Were these events that would involve likewise domestic violence, shouting, and threats?

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108:11 - 108:12 Host

Yes, that and more.

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108:13 - 108:19 Host

Do you believe that you would be here today but for the act of Isabel?

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108:19 - 108:20 Host

Sorry, what?

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108:36 - 108:51 Host

Lori, have you testified from your heart the truth of these events? Have I left anything out that you feel that you need to tell the juries to clarify any issues that you've spoken of at this stage?

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108:52 - 108:54 Host

I mean, there's a lot I would like to get out.

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108:55 - 109:04 Host

Okay, direct me to the topic. I know we can't go into the detail of these events, though. Okay. Aside from that, is there anything else?

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109:06 - 109:10 Host

Michael had a lot of anger. No, please. Sustained.

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109:12 - 109:37 Host

we've spoken about yes the latitude correct but we can't get really i know i know the best subjection your honor this isn't a question all right sustained just correct understand that you don't know yes sir all right please ask a question if you wish so aside from the issues that we've spoken about the temperament and the disposition and the atmosphere

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109:38 - 109:43 Host

and all the matters that we've discussed. Is there anything else that you feel that the jury should know?

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109:44 - 109:48 Host

Objection. Your honor calls for narrative. It's not. Sustained. Please ask a specific question.

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109:49 - 109:52 Host

Is there a topic that we have not discussed?

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109:53 - 109:56 Host

No, nothing that I'm going to be able to talk about at this time.

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109:56 - 109:57 Host

All right. Thank you, Judge.

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109:57 - 109:58 Host

Yes, sir.

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109:58 - 110:01 Host

All right, let's have a sidebar. All right, state, you may proceed. Ms.

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110:18 - 110:28 Host

That's okay. Now, the biggest question I have for you, because you didn't mention it once in your entire story, is when did your husband get killed?

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110:29 - 110:36 Host

The exact date, I cannot recall. It was beginning of May of 2016. It was not November.

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110:36 - 110:50 Host

Okay. So sometime, you don't know, but sometime in May of 2016 is when this happened. Okay. Now, your phone number prior to this homicide was 352-431-0419, correct? You don't know your phone number?

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110:55 - 110:56 Host

That's not my phone number now.

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110:57 - 111:01 Host

You don't... I don't... No, I do not recall my... Okay.

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111:01 - 111:11 Host

But if that's the phone number that is from all those screenshots between you and Jeremy Townsend that you saw, would that refresh your memory that that was your phone number?

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111:12 - 111:17 Host

Okay. And you, at some point, changed your number to 352-431-8444, correct? Yes.

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111:21 - 111:27 Host

I don't believe, I can't recall that because at some point I put my parents on my phone line.

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111:28 - 111:35 Host

You remember seeing the court document that was submitted into evidence where you put your address and phone number on it?

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111:36 - 111:40 Host

And that 8444 number was what you listed?

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111:40 - 111:50 Host

Yeah. I don't remember the phone numbers from back then. And since then, I have also had my parents on my phone bill.

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111:51 - 111:58 Host

My question was whether or not that was your phone number. You agree that the 8444 number was your phone number based on that court document?

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111:59 - 112:09 Host

You would have been truthful in a court document, correct? Yes. Okay. Now, also, one of the statements that you made, I think you said you wouldn't recognize Jeremy?

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112:10 - 112:15 Host

Today, when he walked in, I would have never recognized him today. That's not what he looks like.

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112:16 - 112:24 Host

All right. Now, you mentioned the fact that he had this skull tattoo. You have a skull tattoo, too, right? All right. So that doesn't really mean anything.

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112:24 - 112:26 Host

I had mine way before. Okay.

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112:27 - 112:34 Host

Now, you were saying that you met Jeremy Townsend in August of 2015. Yes.

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112:36 - 112:38 Host

Yes. At the end of August.

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112:39 - 113:01 Host

And that he passed you some sort of post-it note. Yes. All right. And you had talked about because you had marks on your face or something like that. Is that a yes? All right. Now, according to you, Michael Shaver had left the residence. In November of 2015, correct? Your residence.

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113:02 - 113:11 Host

All right. I had kicked him out. All right. Well, I thought that you were the type of person that would just shut down and retreat and couldn't confront anybody. That was your words, right?

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113:13 - 113:31 Host

No, I said that I'm not the type of person where if you come at me and say something, like belittling me or anything like that, I shut down and retreat. I'm not confrontational. All right. That was in the context... Of me and my daughter.

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113:32 - 113:34 Host

But you were confrontational with Mike Shaver?

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113:34 - 113:44 Host

Yeah, I told him to get out because he knew that if I called the cops, he would definitely be kicked out and he would be picked up. So, yes, it was pretty much easy to get him out.

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113:45 - 114:04 Host

Let's try to figure out this by one. In September of 2014... He was arrested for domestic abuse, correct? Correct. And that is when he went to the airport hangar, correct? Where he started living. Yeah. Did he move back into the house after that?

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114:05 - 114:07 Host

All right. When did that happen?

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114:07 - 114:14 Host

I don't know the exact time. It was... How long had he been gone? He had been gone over a year.

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114:14 - 114:16 Host

All right. So sometime in 2015.

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114:17 - 114:20 Host

It was, yeah, probably summer of 2015.

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114:21 - 114:30 Host

So if the arrest was in September of 2014, approximately six to eight months that he was gone?

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114:30 - 114:35 Host

No, it was greater than that because he had finished his probation period.

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114:36 - 114:42 Host

And in that incident, he also suffered injuries, correct? Yes. Because you hit him over the head with a gun, correct?

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114:44 - 115:03 Host

Well, he had the gun pointed at my head. And at that point, I was done. I thought I was giving up at that point. I had nothing left in me until I seen my kids come out and start screaming. And as soon as I seen them, I took and slammed that gun into his head.

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115:04 - 115:16 Host

Have you ever told anyone that he was not at fault for that incident? No. No. Did you throw a vase of flowers into the sliding glass door and break that?

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115:16 - 115:22 Host

I did. We're good in this specific conduct, but the stain is moved to explode.

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115:22 - 115:33 Host

Can we approach, please? Five R, please. During that incident, did you throw a vase breaking the sliding glass door? Okay. And you also broke objects in the bathroom, correct?

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115:34 - 115:34 Host

No, I did not.

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115:35 - 115:42 Host

There's pictures of the sliding glass door from that incident. You've seen those, correct? Yes. And other items in the house that were broken, correct?

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115:42 - 115:42 Host

Correct.

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115:43 - 115:46 Host

Along with the injuries to you and the injuries to Mr. Shaver.

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115:47 - 115:50 Host

The only injury that I was aware of was to his head.

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115:50 - 115:54 Host

Okay. And his pants were torn, correct?

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115:54 - 116:09 Host

He would hold my keys in his pants and would not let me leave the residence. So after I hit him in the head, pushed the gun into his head, I had to reach into his pocket and grab my truck keys so that I could evade property with my children and get to safety.

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116:09 - 116:40 Host

Now, after he left in November of 2015... Okay. Got it straight now? Okay. After he left in November of 2015, was this incident, which ultimately led to his death, the first time that he came back? Yes, it was. Okay. So then in August... I'm sorry, you're saying you actually started a relationship with Jeremy Taliesin in August of 2015?

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116:40 - 116:44 Host

We started talking in August, and Michael was still at the residence.

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116:45 - 116:59 Host

Okay. So after November of 2015, he does not come back to the house? Correct. So that check that was sent to him and deposited in his account, he would not have received, correct?

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116:59 - 117:01 Host

I don't know. He got his mail.

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117:02 - 117:03 Host

How did he get his mail if he wasn't at the house?

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117:04 - 117:08 Host

The mailbox was not at my residence. It was at the end of the road.

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117:08 - 117:15 Host

Okay. So after he left in November of 2015, are you saying that he would just come by every day to pick up his mail?

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117:15 - 117:16 Host

I don't know what he did.

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117:16 - 117:18 Host

Did you ever notice any mail missing?

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117:19 - 117:21 Host

How would I know if it was missing?

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117:21 - 117:23 Host

Did you ever notice any of your stuff missing?

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117:25 - 117:29 Host

Did he ever notice any mail coming for Michael Shaver to that address after he left?

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117:30 - 117:31 Host

Yes, a few things.

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117:31 - 117:33 Host

What would you do with that in order to get it to him?

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117:34 - 117:37 Host

I would take it back to the post office and do return mail. No longer at this address.

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117:37 - 117:38 Host

Where was it going?

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117:39 - 117:39 Host

I don't know.

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117:40 - 117:40 Host

Where was he?

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117:41 - 117:45 Host

I don't know. I assumed probably back at the hangar.

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117:47 - 117:53 Host

If he left in November of 2015 and went to go live at the hangar, why would he quit his job at Disney?

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117:54 - 117:57 Host

Because there was a sexual harassment charge against him.

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117:59 - 118:05 Host

Okay. You've heard that his supervisor came in and said there was no such thing and there's nothing in those records, correct?

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118:06 - 118:07 Host

Oh, I did. I heard that.

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118:07 - 118:09 Host

Are you saying that Disney falsified those records?

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118:11 - 118:16 Host

The sexual harassment complaint filed against him came directly from Michael's mouth.

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118:17 - 118:20 Host

Okay. You had access to his bank accounts, correct?

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118:21 - 118:22 Host

Yes, he had access to mine as well.

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118:23 - 118:27 Host

And you with money from his accounts, correct?

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118:27 - 118:29 Host

And deposited money, correct? Right.

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118:30 - 118:35 Host

In November of 2015, what deposits were you making in his account?

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118:35 - 118:37 Host

I have no idea. I'm not sure that I was.

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118:37 - 118:39 Host

Did he deposit that Mariner check into his account?

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118:39 - 118:42 Host

No. I have no idea what that is. All right.

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118:43 - 118:47 Host

The money from the sale of all of his property, how did you get that to him?

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118:48 - 118:53 Host

Well, it was not necessarily his property. It was on his guns.

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118:53 - 119:01 Host

Okay, so after he was arrested and... My question was, how did you get the money from the sale of his guns to him if you didn't know where he was?

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119:02 - 119:06 Host

I did not give him the money from the sale of the guns. Those were not his guns.

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119:06 - 119:11 Host

Would you have any way, if you say you don't even know where he is, would you have any way of getting him any of that money?

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119:12 - 119:14 Host

No, I never said I gave him money.

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119:15 - 119:17 Host

You just said you deposited money into his account.

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119:17 - 119:34 Host

No, I mean, that was throughout the whole marital. I would deposit money and take out money. He worked overnights. So during the day, if he needed anything, any shopping and all that for the well-being of the house and the kids, I would do that during the day because he was sleeping because he worked overnights.

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119:35 - 119:46 Host

As far as the Facebook records, all the stuff from the Lori Shaver Facebook account, you would agree you posted, correct? None of that stuff was anybody hacking you or anything like that?

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119:46 - 119:47 Host

It did not appear so.

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119:47 - 119:51 Host

You had access to Michael Shaver's Facebook, correct?

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119:52 - 119:52 Host

Previously.

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119:52 - 119:55 Host

How did you have access to his account?

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119:55 - 120:16 Host

Well, previously we had a joint account. After we had separated in 2014, I believe we separated emails. Facebook, prior to that, everything was joint. After that, we went from a joint bank account to bank accounts, to emails, to Facebooks. Prior to that, everything was joint because he controlled everything.

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120:17 - 120:18 Host

Did you have his password?

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120:19 - 120:22 Host

Previously, well, it was a joint password because it was a joint account.

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120:22 - 120:24 Host

When did he start his own account?

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120:25 - 120:27 Host

After we had separated in 2014.

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120:28 - 120:29 Host

Did you have his password for that account?

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120:30 - 120:31 Host

Well, that was our account. Okay.

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120:32 - 120:38 Host

When you said he started his own account, my question is, all right, did you ever post anything on his account?

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120:38 - 120:39 Host

No, I did not.

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120:39 - 120:41 Host

Did your daughter have his password?

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120:43 - 120:44 Host

I don't believe so.

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120:44 - 120:54 Host

Was anyone else living in your house after May of 2016 that had access to his phone or password for Facebook?

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120:55 - 121:01 Host

I don't know about the password, but there was two tablets. There was a laptop and a desktop.

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121:02 - 121:04 Host

Did they have his Facebook profile in it?

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121:04 - 121:11 Host

Everything was automatic. Everything was already logged in. So all you had to do was just log it, like open it up, and you were automatically logged in.

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121:12 - 121:14 Host

Was your daughter posting on his Facebook?

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121:16 - 121:28 Host

Was your son posting on his Facebook? No. Now, did you ever tell anyone that after he left in November of 2015 that he was in jail for failing to pay child support?

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121:28 - 121:29 Host

I did.

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121:29 - 121:30 Host

That wasn't true, correct?

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121:30 - 121:48 Host

No, it was not. That was an old manager that I had a relationship with way back when, and he had moved back from Connecticut to Florida and was reaching out to me, and he was... Curious.

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121:48 - 121:52 Host

That's Rameen, correct? Correct. When you say relationship, that's another affair, correct?

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121:52 - 121:52 Host

Correct.

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121:53 - 121:58 Host

But you told him that Mike was in jail for failing to pay child support and his license was suspended, correct?

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121:58 - 122:04 Host

I didn't give him my personal information and he was asking about that because... Okay, wait, wait, hold on one second.

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122:04 - 122:08 Host

How is Mike being in jail your personal information?

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122:09 - 122:22 Host

Accurate personal information because he was questioning. Because prior to that, there was conversations where Michael had threatened once again after finding out to kill me.

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122:23 - 122:35 Host

So when you told your manager that you had a prior affair with that Mike was in jail, that was a lie. Did you tell your sister that you guys had been working out of separation agreements?

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122:36 - 122:39 Host

Well, we actually did work out a separation agreement, and it was filed with the court.

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122:40 - 122:43 Host

In order to do that, you have to get a... Was that here in Lake County?

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122:43 - 122:44 Host

It was.

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122:44 - 122:52 Host

Okay, so there is some sort of divorce proceeding with your name on it and Michael Shavers, because you just said you filed something in court, correct?

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122:52 - 123:05 Host

I did not say divorce. You said separation. So after 2014, after that incident, we both had attorney representation, and Michael and I came up with an agreement, handwritten. We both signed it. That was filed.

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123:06 - 123:06 Host

Where?

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123:07 - 123:08 Host

Where?

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123:08 - 123:08 Host

At this courthouse.

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123:09 - 123:10 Host

What case is that in?

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123:11 - 123:35 Host

Whatever the prior DCF is, and I had won that case with no adjudication. I don't know where that record is, but it was filed. And in that agreement, he agreed to pay X amount of money. I would keep the kids. He could not take the kids. He would see them. every other weekend, whatever. We had that separation. I made more money than he did. I covered the health insurance. I covered the kids.

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123:35 - 123:48 Host

I kept the house. He was moving out of the house and he was going to pay X, Y, Z. That was a handwritten document that both of us signed in front of the mediator at this DCF agreement that I won with no adjudication.

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123:49 - 123:51 Host

Was there ever a divorce proceeding started?

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123:51 - 123:53 Host

No, there was not. Not in the state of Florida.

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123:54 - 123:58 Host

After 2015, was there ever a divorce proceeding started?

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124:01 - 124:07 Host

When law enforcement came and asked you about the whereabouts of your husband, you were not truthful with them, correct?

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124:07 - 124:10 Host

I didn't know where he went.

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124:10 - 124:22 Host

You know what happened to him, correct? Right. You didn't tell him that, correct? The Walmart purchase that was on your husband's bank account, you did that, correct? Yes.

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124:23 - 124:25 Host

I don't recall doing that.

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124:26 - 124:28 Host

That was sent to your house with your name on it, correct?

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124:30 - 124:36 Host

I don't recall the exact parameters around it or what I bought or anything like that.

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124:37 - 124:52 Host

So this event happens in May of 2016, correct? Yes. Your relationship with Jeremy Townsend and very fultrously in May of 2016, correct? Is that a yes?

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124:53 - 124:59 Host

And your relationship with Travis Filmer then begins in May of 2016, correct?

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124:59 - 125:01 Host

He came over at the end of May, yes.

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125:02 - 125:20 Host

And you were actually engaged to him in July of 2016, correct? Yes. In April of 2016, Rebecca Urbanowski was living with you, correct? Correct. And the fire pit itself was built in March of 2016? Yes.

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125:22 - 125:22 Host

I guess so.

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125:22 - 125:40 Host

That's when you posted it, right? And then how big was your property? And out of all of that land, you just happened to choose the area where your dead husband's body was found to put that cement block. That's basically what you're saying here, correct?

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125:40 - 125:45 Host

I figured they did not know his body was there. It went there because the area was already dug out.

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125:45 - 125:47 Host

Quite a coincidence, you'd agree, correct?

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125:48 - 126:13 Host

No, not necessarily. Not if you realize the whole parameters of what came first and how that all transpired. Like I said, that was something that Jeremy and I had originally talked about doing because I'd gotten rid of the animals and we had the fire pit and we were talking about wanting to, I mean, it was his suggestion to put in concrete.

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126:13 - 126:21 Host

So the March 2016, when you put that fire pit in, and two months later is when your husband is still on your property, correct?

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126:21 - 126:25 Host

Yes. Concrete was not poured until September.

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126:25 - 126:28 Host

Correct. By you and your now husband.

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126:28 - 126:35 Host

But I had no knowledge that he was under there. If I was trying to cover him up, why would I do that so many months later? And only...

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126:36 - 126:45 Host

I haven't asked you a question, ma'am. So the incident that led to your husband's death, Clinton had not been around for months, correct?

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126:46 - 126:46 Host

Correct.

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126:47 - 126:51 Host

And he just happens to show up sometime in May of 2016, correct? Correct.

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126:52 - 126:58 Host

It just happened. That was pretty typical of him being gone for months and then showing up and us getting back together.

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127:00 - 127:07 Host

And then during that time frame, this was sometime before you were going to take your kids to school, correct?

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127:07 - 127:10 Host

Yes, he was out on the porch when I went.

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127:11 - 127:12 Host

How was he dressed?

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127:13 - 127:15 Host

Shorts, t-shirt, sneakers.

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127:16 - 127:19 Host

And an argument between the two of you starts.

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127:19 - 127:27 Host

Yes, I went outside. I got the kids settled, and I went outside to talk to them. How old was your daughter at this point? Seven.

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127:28 - 127:33 Host

And is there a reason why you never talked to your daughter how to dial 911?

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127:36 - 127:51 Host

I mean, we just had cell phones. We didn't have a landline. She knew how to dial 911, but like I said, I had my cell phone on me. The security system that we had, she would not have been able to reach. It was above the keys where the door was.

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127:52 - 127:56 Host

When she said, I didn't know how to call 911, I'm asking why you wouldn't have taught her.

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127:57 - 128:00 Host

I did teach her how to call 911, but she didn't have a phone.

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128:00 - 128:16 Host

Okay. Now, your testimony is that she shot him, correct? Yes. And at that point, you were able to get out from underneath Mr. Shaver, correct? Correct.

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128:18 - 128:45 Host

I did not crawl away until he was falling to the ground. After she shot him, I was still looking at her, like, still comprehending everything that was happening. I wasn't two yet because he had been, had his foot on my face, smushing it into the ground. It took me, I mean, it wasn't that long, but it took me a little bit to kind of comprehend what was occurring. And then...

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128:47 - 128:52 Host

After being shot, correct? Mm-hmm. He certainly didn't get up out of the chair after being shot, correct?

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128:53 - 129:01 Host

No, not until, no, no. After the second shot, he fell forward. The first shot, he sat in the chair.

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129:02 - 129:05 Host

At the time of his death, Mike Shaver was about 5'3"? 5'3"? Mm-hmm. 5'8", 5'10".

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129:07 - 129:07 Host

Okay. 5'2".

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129:13 - 129:18 Host

The probable cause affidavit around the time of his arrest listed him at 5'3 and 130 pounds. You're saying that's inaccurate?

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129:19 - 129:20 Host

That was probably me.

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129:20 - 129:22 Host

Okay, well, you weren't arrested, right?

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129:23 - 129:24 Host

His probable cause from 2014?

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129:26 - 129:32 Host

Yes. You're saying that that 5'3 and 130 pounds is inaccurate is what you're saying?

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129:32 - 129:43 Host

Yes, definitely probably not what's on his driver's license. He was not 5'3. He was like 5'8 and 150, 160 pounds. Okay. I was 5'2 and 115'20.

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129:43 - 129:47 Host

When Mike left, he left his vehicle, correct?

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129:48 - 129:50 Host

You're talking about the black car.

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129:50 - 129:53 Host

No, I'm talking about he had a vehicle and he left it behind, correct?

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129:54 - 130:06 Host

His black car had been sitting there for a while. He had a bent rim and the air in the tire could not stay inflated. So he was driving my truck back and forth to work.

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130:07 - 130:24 Host

My question was, when he left and moved out, he left his car, correct? And he left everything that he had that had any sort of value that could be sold, correct? Guns, tools, ATV, left all that behind.

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130:24 - 130:32 Host

All the tools that were in the shed were of no use to him. They were like old tools and stuff like that, and it wasn't an ATV.

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130:32 - 130:36 Host

My question was, he left the stuff behind, stuff that he could have sold, correct?

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130:38 - 130:39 Host

Correct.

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130:40 - 130:44 Host

He stopped going to work and lost his job because of it, correct?

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130:46 - 130:48 Host

I was not aware of that at that time.

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130:48 - 130:52 Host

So he lost his ability to make any money, correct?

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130:53 - 130:56 Host

I was not aware of that at that time.

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130:57 - 131:04 Host

Prior to November of 2015, he would call you using the phone frequently, correct? Correct.

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131:04 - 131:08 Host

Yes, because he was back in the house and we were working things, trying to work things out.

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131:08 - 131:15 Host

After November of 2015, there is absolutely no calls to you after that November 7th, 2015, correct?

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131:16 - 131:17 Host

I don't recall.

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131:18 - 131:22 Host

There's not a single call to you, to the children, anything, correct?

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131:24 - 131:25 Host

I don't recall.

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131:26 - 131:41 Host

There's no activity on his bank other than withdrawals from the ATM in Claremont, where you live, correct? I would not. November 2015, he just vanishes off the face of the earth. No one can account for him, correct?

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131:43 - 131:45 Host

I don't believe that's true.

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131:46 - 131:58 Host

But you've definitely not had any contact with him in any way since... until he shows up someday, which you do not know, in May of 2016 when this incident occurs, correct?

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131:58 - 132:09 Host

No, he showed up prior to May. At my property, but he was already causing trouble prior to that, which fits within his history of doing this.

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132:09 - 132:22 Host

My question to you previously was, after you kicked him out in November of 2015, and prior to him coming out the day that he was still, I asked you, did he ever come and have any contact with you? You said no, correct?

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132:23 - 132:31 Host

Not physically correct, but calls and stuff like that, yes. Calls? His threats, stuff like that.

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132:34 - 132:42 Host

You saw the phone records, which show absolutely no calls from him after November 7th, correct?

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132:42 - 132:59 Host

He was communicating with Jeremy. I believe he had sent me text. He had sent me a nasty text prior to that, telling me I was just like my mom. Something to that effect. He was communicating.

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133:00 - 133:02 Host

From your IP address.

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133:02 - 133:05 Host

I don't know that that's my IP address. How can you verify that?

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133:05 - 133:10 Host

Because it's the same IP address that your account that you said you used posted on as well.

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133:12 - 133:15 Host

Okay, how do we know that he didn't post on my Facebook or log into my Facebook?

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133:16 - 133:29 Host

So what vehicle, the day that he showed up in May of 2016, what vehicle did he use to get to your house that day? What vehicle was in your yard that you didn't recognize that day?

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133:30 - 133:31 Host

In May?

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133:31 - 133:39 Host

Yes. So he just walked? He just showed up without a vehicle in your house on the back porch?

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133:39 - 133:41 Host

Not paying attention to that.

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133:42 - 133:43 Host

Nothing further, Judge.

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133:44 - 133:57 Host

Thank you, Mr. Wiggs. I don't have anything. Thank you, Judge. All right. Yes, sir. Thank you. You may step down from the witness stand. Any other witnesses, Mr. Wiggs? No. At this time, the defense will rest, Judge. All right. The defense has rested.

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