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Crimeatorium

Part 2: Illinois vs Bradley Yohn | The Horrifying Attack on Christine Lohman Schmitt

Mon, 28 Oct 2024

Description

Christine Lohman Schmitt was a 77 year old wife, mother, grandmother and great grandmother. She loved Christmas, wine, and Star Trek, but most of all, she loved her family. Christine studied at the Sorbonne in Paris, and went to the London School of Economics. One night in 2021, Christine's life was changed in the most horrific way, when a man and a female accomplice terrorized her first in her car, then in her home.The following is the trial of Bradley Yohn, who decided to represent himself, and in doing so, made a mockery of the court system.A month after the attack, Christine, who also went by Tina, lost her life.The pain, indignity and fear Christine faced is nothing short of shocking, listener discretion is advised.The next part will be released tomorrow.Music:Tim Kulig (timkulig.com)Titles: Crimeatorium Intro composed by TimLicensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 4.0creativecommons.org/licenses/by/4.0/IMDB: https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0997280/?ref_=fn_al_nm_1Support:Donations are appreciated, if you would like to help support the show, use the link below and buy me a burrito and a Diet Pepsi:http://Ko-fi.com/crimeatoriumFor $3 a month, you can support this show on Patreon, in return you will receive ad free, early, and bonus episodeshttps://www.patreon.com/crimeatoriumIf you like the podcast, please share it on social media and with friends, and take a minute to leave a review for Crimeatorium on Spotify, Podchaser or Apple Podcasts.Contact:www.crimeatorium.comcrimeatorium@gmail.comThank you for listening!Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/crimeatorium9009/donationsAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

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Transcription

00:00 - 00:19 Host

to be recalled in the future. But, Mr., any other questions at this time, Mr. Young, from this witness? I do. I do. That year, around Christmas, do you recall being given the items of evidence from the Adams County Sheriff's Department?

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00:21 - 00:25 Host

No. No hammers or tools?

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00:26 - 00:49 Host

No. You're sure about that? Objection, Your Honor. I asked if you'd sort this all out or not. Let me have some redirect. Just two questions, Your Honor. All right. Let's go ahead and do that then. Sir, your wife didn't go into specific details about her sexual assault or rape with you, did she? Specific details aren't a great detail, fair to say. No.

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00:49 - 01:19 Host

Did she feel ashamed about what had happened to her? Yes. And she didn't want to go to the hospital because she was ashamed of what had happened. Is that fair to say? I object, Your Honor. I withdraw the question, Your Honor. The question is withdrawn. The jury should disregard any further recross based upon the questions just asked. Mr. Young? No, Your Honor. Thank you, Mr. Jones. No step down.

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01:20 - 01:25 Host

Thank you. Mr. Jones, when you're ready with your questions. Thank you, Your Honor. Can you tell me your name, please?

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01:26 - 01:27 Host

Jacqueline Oglesby.

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01:28 - 01:30 Host

Can you get your little duck closer to that?

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01:30 - 01:31 Host

Jacqueline Oglesby?

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01:31 - 01:38 Host

There we go. All right. Everybody here, okay. Ms. Oglesby, can you tell me what you do?

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01:40 - 01:56 Host

I'm an AR nurse at Blessing Hospital, and I specialize in SANE. Well, let's talk about that. You say you're curious about what SANE is. Tell me what SANE is. I'm a sexual assault nurse examiner. I do exams on patients who have been sexually assaulted.

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01:56 - 02:17 Host

I want to talk to you about November 9th, 2021. Were you working in the emergency rooms that night? I was. When you were working in the emergency room that night, was there an occasion where you met with or conducted an exam of recursion that you would be questioning?

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02:18 - 02:18 Host

I did.

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02:19 - 02:21 Host

Can you tell me about what time she was coming?

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02:22 - 02:23 Host

It was about 8 o'clock.

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02:24 - 02:25 Host

Later? Yeah.

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02:26 - 02:38 Host

When you do a thing in general, can you give me a general sense of what the first step you do as a sexual assault, how do you come up with what she said?

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02:39 - 02:43 Host

Going in, meeting the patient, building that rapport so that they trust you to do their exam.

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02:44 - 02:50 Host

In this case, what was the first thing you did after you met with this woman? What was the first step you took before you moved in?

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02:51 - 02:53 Host

Just assessing her immediate injuries.

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02:53 - 03:03 Host

And when you met with her and talked with her, not asking what she, but when you met with her and talked with her, were you able to see if she was crying and seemed to accept what her emotional state was?

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03:05 - 03:12 Host

Yeah, it appeared to me that she was in shock. She didn't really have too much emotions going on, I guess.

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03:13 - 03:15 Host

A slap, a stack, if you will.

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03:15 - 03:15 Host

Yeah.

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03:17 - 03:20 Host

Then you looked at her physical injury.

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03:21 - 03:28 Host

Is that right? That's right. Did you also document those physical injuries? I did. Both in paper form and photographically?

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03:28 - 03:43 Host

Correct. Did you take several photographs that reflected those injuries that you observed on November 9th, 2001? I did. I'm going to hand you what you marked as 19 through 32.

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03:44 - 03:55 Host

And I ask you to take a moment and look. Have you seen those photographs? I have. And are those photographs, the photographs that you took, they documented the injuries that you observed? They are.

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03:56 - 03:56 Host

Any objection?

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04:10 - 04:12 Host

No, they are.

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04:12 - 04:16 Host

People's Exhibit 19, string 32 will be admitted without objection.

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04:17 - 04:24 Host

The first photograph I want to put on the screen is People's Exhibit 19. And looking at People's Exhibit 19, can you tell us who that's a photograph of?

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04:25 - 04:26 Host

Christine Lohman.

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04:27 - 04:42 Host

Is that how she looked when you saw her in the evening hours? It is. You talked about some injuries, and I first want to talk about bruising. Did you notice a bruising on her body? I did. Was there bruising in multiple locations?

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04:42 - 04:43 Host

There was.

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04:44 - 05:09 Host

I use the word fresh bruising. Do you know what I mean when I say that? A recent bruise. A recent bruise. In your training experience, have you been able to tell the difference between bruises that are relatively recent and bruises that are days and weeks old? I am. The bruising that you observed on Christina Longman on November 9th, did the bruising appear to be recent or false? It did.

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05:09 - 05:21 Host

The bruising that you saw on Christina Longman, did you take a photograph? I did. Here on Exhibit 20, we have a photograph of Ms. Longman's knee, is that correct?

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05:21 - 05:22 Host

That's correct.

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05:22 - 05:24 Host

And can you tell us what we observe in that photograph?

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05:24 - 05:26 Host

It appears to be a fresh bruise on her knee.

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05:28 - 05:29 Host

In the center part underneath?

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05:29 - 05:30 Host

Yes.

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05:30 - 05:42 Host

People's Exhibit 21. We have photographs of Christine Malone with his left hand. Is that right? Correct. Can you tell us what we're looking at here and what you noticed in your sexual assault examination?

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05:43 - 05:45 Host

It appears that she had fresh bruising on her hand.

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05:46 - 06:07 Host

Talking about discoloration, bruising from the bottom of the hand to the top and then across the top of the hand. Correct. And even on the left side of the left hand. Correct. People's Exhibit 22, also a photograph that you took showing both the left and right hands of Christina Lohman. Correct.

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06:08 - 06:15 Host

And again, can you tell us what you noticed in your examination of her left and right hand and her left forearm?

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06:16 - 06:18 Host

There was fresh bruising to all parts.

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06:19 - 06:27 Host

Again, looking at discoloration of her right hand and up to her right wrist and her left hand. Upper left forearm, fair to say.

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06:27 - 06:28 Host

That's correct.

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06:29 - 06:33 Host

Was the bruising contained to her upper body or was there bruising on her lower body as well?

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06:33 - 06:36 Host

There was bruising on her lower body as well.

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06:36 - 06:53 Host

Exhibit 23 shows both the left and right knee of Christina Lohman. We saw a close-up of the right knee already. Here is the left leg. Can you tell us what you noticed in your training experience as a sexual assault nurse examiner?

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06:54 - 06:58 Host

There was bruising to the Knee as well.

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06:58 - 07:00 Host

Both. Both of them.

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07:00 - 07:04 Host

And again, that bruising appeared in your transcripts to be relatively... Correct.

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07:05 - 07:06 Host

Was there also...

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07:08 - 07:34 Host

bruising and injuries to the patient's, to Christina Lohman's buttock. There was. The next slide is going to be a black slide because of the nature of the photograph. It's Fecal Exhibit 24, if we ever go out to look. Do you feel people's Exhibit 24 is correct? Correct. It's a photograph of Christina Lohman's buttocks and upper part of her thigh, should we say? Is that right? Correct.

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07:34 - 07:50 Host

Sorry, there's a court report you've got to see, sir. And that photograph shows a bruising and abrasions to other legs of the body. Is that fair to say? That's correct. Governor, if I could have the bailouts approach the jury based on the nature of that photograph and pass that to the jury.

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07:50 - 07:54 Host

Yes. Publish that directly through juror observation fashion photo.

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07:55 - 08:02 Host

So you're on People's Existence 25, the lower part of Christina Lowen's thighs, backside of her thighs.

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08:02 - 08:22 Host

If I may, I'd like to object real quick. For the previous time, I had copies of 24 and 26. I spoke to Ms. Keck earlier, telling her that the numbers were changed on them. And she took the copies I had, and I have not been given copies back since to observe.

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08:22 - 08:38 Host

So she sent copies of these photographs, and she sent these, mentioned these photographs, and she said she sees them. And first step, we took those to him at one point and showed us these photographs. And there's no one searching for these. She knows it's photographs, and she sees them.

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08:39 - 08:58 Host

Your Honor, that's irrelevant right at this moment. I'm entitled to have that here at the moment. I've had them for the last year until just about an hour and a half ago. I'd like to view them too. I'd like to view them, but I need to. Well, Mr. Young, I'm going to overrule your objection.

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08:58 - 09:18 Host

You've already not objected to the introduction of those exhibits here for purposes of trial, and you can observe what's on the screen with Mr. Jones and the witness as they testify. And if you need those exhibits, they will be available for you during cross-examination to use yourself. The lesson from the objection is overruled.

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09:19 - 09:36 Host

And page exhibit 25, bruising on both the the upper backside of Christina Lohman's thighs on both the right and left side, I'm afraid to say. Correct. And is the bruising contained on the interior of both the right and left thigh?

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09:36 - 09:39 Host

In other words, it's on the insides of both of them.

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09:39 - 09:40 Host

That's correct.

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09:41 - 09:45 Host

Here on equals 26, it's going to be a blank screen off the screen again.

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09:45 - 09:52 Host

It's a photograph of the Christian alumnus showing abrasions and bruising and discoloration.

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09:52 - 10:07 Host

Again, based on the sensitive nature of that, we'd ask the bailiff to approach and show that to the jurors. All right. We'll proceed in the fashion as suggested. And so goes the element of the fact. Welcome to People's Exhibit 19.

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10:09 - 10:18 Host

When you were speaking with Christine Lomath and talking with her, did you notice anything about her mouth, specifically if there was blood in her mouth?

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10:19 - 10:19 Host

There was.

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10:19 - 10:29 Host

And did you take photographs of the interior of her mouth as well? I did. When you looked in her mouth, did you discover that there were significant injuries to the inside?

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10:30 - 10:30 Host

I did.

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10:30 - 10:55 Host

In your training as a nurse and the years that you've been a nurse, have you seen chemical burns before? I have. The burns in Ms. Lohman's mouth, did it appear to be chemical burns to you? It did. People's Exhibit 27, it's just a photograph of the insides of Christina Lohman's mouth on November 9th, 2021, when you performed a sexual assault examination.

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10:55 - 11:00 Host

It is. The black and red areas, is that blood?

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11:01 - 11:01 Host

Yes.

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11:02 - 11:07 Host

Again, People's 28, is that a different view of Christina Lowman's, the interior of her mouth?

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11:08 - 11:08 Host

It is.

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11:09 - 11:17 Host

Again, we're able to better visualize the clotting on her mouth and then the fresh blood at the back of her throat. Is that correct?

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11:17 - 11:18 Host

That's correct.

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11:18 - 11:24 Host

Again, the interior of Christina Lowman's mouth on November 9th, 2021, showing blood.

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11:27 - 11:33 Host

The clotting and the abrasions and the turns on the inside of her mouth. Is that right?

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11:33 - 11:38 Host

That is correct. Here, do we see the roof of her mouth, Christina Lemons? No.

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11:39 - 11:39 Host

That's correct.

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11:40 - 11:44 Host

And again, the black clotting and the fresh abrasion.

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11:45 - 11:45 Host

That's correct.

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11:45 - 11:53 Host

And the fresh. Ms. Oglesby, did you also examine Christina Lemons' vagina?

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11:54 - 11:54 Host

I did.

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11:55 - 12:08 Host

And in examining her vagina, did you know there's injuries to her vagina? I did. In fact, was there a three linear tears approximately one centimeter long?

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12:09 - 12:11 Host

Is that correct? Yeah, that sounds correct.

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12:12 - 12:20 Host

And also a one by one or one centimeter by one centimeter abrasion and a three centimeter by two centimeter abrasion. Bleeding.

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12:21 - 12:21 Host

That's correct.

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12:22 - 12:27 Host

Did you also attempt to perform a cervix exam on this woman?

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12:27 - 12:27 Host

I did.

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12:28 - 12:29 Host

Were you able to complete that?

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12:29 - 12:30 Host

I was not.

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12:31 - 12:33 Host

Is that because it was too painful for her?

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12:33 - 12:34 Host

That is correct.

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12:35 - 12:44 Host

When you were able to perform what you were able to perform on that cervix exam, did you notice stringy clots in the vaginal wall?

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12:44 - 12:45 Host

I did.

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12:45 - 12:48 Host

Can you tell me what that means, stringy clots in the vaginal?

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12:49 - 12:58 Host

When I was able to open up the speculum as much as I could, there was clotted blood from some sort of injury to the vagina. Yeah.

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13:00 - 13:28 Host

And Peoples 31 and 32, those are photographs of the examination of Christina Lemon's vagina during the sexual assault examination. Yes. And those show the abrasions and the tears that you three are seeing. Correct. Based on the nature of 31 and 32, we're not going to publish them on the Screaming Dice, but we will publish the jury and publish them in that manner.

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13:31 - 13:36 Host

If the exhibits 31 and 32 will be published to the jury as suggested. Ms.

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13:36 - 13:49 Host

Oblesby, when you accepted that examination from Christy Allen, was she wearing an adult gift that time? She was. When you, did you move that thing?

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13:49 - 13:50 Host

I did.

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13:50 - 13:53 Host

And did you place it into evidence?

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13:53 - 13:53 Host

I did.

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13:56 - 14:01 Host

When you observed that defense, did you notice any blood on that as well?

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14:02 - 14:03 Host

Yes, there was a lot of blood on the defense.

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14:05 - 14:09 Host

You're familiar with the term sexual assault, yeah?

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14:09 - 14:10 Host

Correct.

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14:10 - 14:13 Host

Did you perform a sexual assault in this case?

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14:13 - 14:13 Host

I did.

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14:13 - 14:17 Host

We're going to hand you what's been marked as people's exhibit number one.

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14:18 - 14:50 Host

Do you recognize that? I do. And is that the sexual assault kit that you collected on November 9th, 2021 from Christina? It is. Count it again. Number one, be admitted again. Any objection? No, Your Honor. As long as we can introduce 0506, the defense copy, which is also a secondary patient consent form. It's also the top of that box, which is attached to that. It's a completely different one.

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14:50 - 14:57 Host

Sirs, I'm going to object at this point. The court asked us if there was an objection to the introduction, not for commentary about other pieces of evidence.

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14:58 - 15:14 Host

And so, Mr. Young, there's no objection to the admission of people's exhibit number one. You will have a chance to cross-examine and attempt to introduce the exhibits you believe are relevant. And so we'll take that up when it's your turn. Mr. Jones. Thank you, Your Honor.

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15:16 - 15:42 Host

I think I just want to make sure that adults, the pants, that just something where she was wearing that when she came into the emergency room when you were first there. Correct. Thank you. That's all the questions I have. All right. Any cross-examination, Mr. Young? Yes, Your Honor. Yes, most definitely. I'll just be cutting for company. In reference to, I'll start out with a sex assault kid.

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15:43 - 15:59 Host

In reference to the sex assault kid, you do a number of procedures in that sex assault kid, right? That's correct. There's a number of options or steps you should take in order to fulfill a complete sex assault, true?

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15:59 - 16:02 Host

I do it based on the patient's needs and wants.

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16:03 - 16:31 Host

In this case, you did several different pages. Questionnaires, notations, bruises, among the statements, apps described by patient historian, methods used by assailants or assailants, post-assault hygiene activity, patient medical history for forensic lab among general exam.

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16:32 - 16:35 Host

I'm sorry, I don't understand your question.

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16:36 - 17:06 Host

When you do a sexual assault kit, which I believe is called an ISPE or ISPSEC, a sex assault evidence collection kit, there are several steps to that kit, right? Correct. And one of them would be a general exam. Correct. And you would examine the... Declarence body, per se, you would overlook them if they happen again. Correct. And you notate them injuries, obviously, right? Correct.

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17:06 - 17:40 Host

And on 11-9, did you notate the injuries of CL with Sloan? I did. Do you have a copy of that present? I do. Could you... possibly go to page six of step two it is a general exam continue i'll start there generally or normal as this normal procedure i would think you would notate all physical markings trauma markings descriptions right to the best of my ability the best of your ability can you uh

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17:41 - 17:53 Host

You've notated some markings here today on a screen and with the state's attorney. Can you read off the notations that you made in this general exam on the continued page?

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17:54 - 17:58 Host

Bruising to the dorsal side of the left hand, pain to the tailbone.

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17:58 - 18:06 Host

I'm going to object. He's asked the witness to read. If he wants her to read, then she should be given the opportunity to answer the question and read what he said.

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18:07 - 18:11 Host

I've lost it. In the objection, you may answer that question.

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18:12 - 18:19 Host

bruise, four centimeters by three centimeters to the inner left buttock, redness to the right knee, and bruising to the left knee.

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18:20 - 18:38 Host

And as you said, you're a professional. Obviously, you can determine what bruising is, recent, prior, old, right? Sorry? You stated just a few minutes ago that number four, which you notated as redness to the right knee. You stated that that was a bruise minutes ago.

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18:39 - 18:42 Host

Redness and bruising sometimes can look similar.

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18:43 - 19:10 Host

they, they can. Um, but you did in the exam on 11, nine, you know, 10 minutes written express. Correct. And, uh, as far as number one, bruising to dorsal side of left hand, that would be the top, right? Correct. And, uh, Number two, you described as, well, excuse me, CL probably described to you as pain to the tailbone area, right? Correct.

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19:10 - 19:34 Host

And number three, you obviously stated four centimeters by three centimeters. That's approximately the size, right? Not too big. It's not an inch wide, an inch in diameter, right? I'm going to object your honor, an inch is a little bit more than two centimeters, so four centimeters would be more than an inch. Excuse me, you're right. I apologize. I worded that wrong.

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19:34 - 19:56 Host

Number five, bruising to the left knee. That is correct, true? Yeah. Ms. Oglesby, you put an in-depth description on number three, and that was a bruise to the inner left buttock. Is there a reason that you did not put an in-depth size description on number one and number five?

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19:57 - 19:57 Host

There's not.

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19:58 - 20:22 Host

And if you look at the picture, you obviously still have a number five. I believe that was... Just for the record, I don't think she has her pictures in front of her. Send the bell if you need her to make sure she moves on. So if you go to, I believe it is number 23, it shows the needs. Yes, yes ma'am, the needs.

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20:23 - 20:33 Host

And if you observe the left knee, could you give a brief description of maybe the size of that to the best of your knowledge based on your professionalism?

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20:33 - 20:37 Host

I'm unable to recall due to the size of the picture.

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20:38 - 20:47 Host

But can you, I mean, as far as the picture you have in your hand, it's very obvious. Could you give a brief description of maybe what it covers, the length?

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20:48 - 20:51 Host

It covers the lower part of the knee.

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20:51 - 20:56 Host

The lower part of the knee. Pretty much the whole knee, correct?

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20:56 - 20:57 Host

The lower part of the knee.

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20:58 - 21:19 Host

I'd like to step over to... the statement on step two, page two. I understand you've got a redacted statement there in your hands, possibly. I've been given three redactions myself. If you look at that redaction,

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21:20 - 21:26 Host

Judge, I want to be clear. We haven't introduced anything, and what she has is an unredacted version of her report.

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21:27 - 21:45 Host

An unredacted record. There should be no redactions on the report in the witness's hand you're referring her to. If you would go down to the lower center part of the page, I believe it'd be about eight lines up. It says, he then... Judge, I'm going to object at this point.

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21:46 - 21:54 Host

This is here, sir. If he wants to get into this... We didn't get into this specifically because he had objected earlier.

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21:55 - 22:00 Host

So we want to get into everything that this patient told this nurse. We can do that.

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22:00 - 22:07 Host

But then the rule of completeness is we're going to get into all of it. So it's up to the defendant. If he wants all this in, that's fine.

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22:07 - 22:32 Host

But he's not going to pick and choose different lines in there. All right, well, it's not going to direct court on how we're going to get into things, Mr. Jones, but I would suggest we take a 10-minute recess until 2.30. We'll have the jury excused to the jury assembly room and he will address this issue and objections outside of the hearing of the jury.

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22:33 - 22:51 Host

That is going to do what's called opening the door. Yes, sir. And under the rule of completeness, if you open the door to part of that, that means you open the door to all of that. And that may include everything that would otherwise be inadmissible as hearsay.

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22:52 - 23:15 Host

Okay, and so I wanted to caution you and at least make you aware of that, but before you open the door, if you go down this line of questioning the way you were attempting to proceed, the state is going to be able to introduce that entire report. Your Honor. Okay. Yes, sir. As it stands, the state has already crossed the testimonial line. They crossed the testimonial line with Mr. Smith.

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23:21 - 23:56 Host

right now. Yes, sir. I apologize. I did make myself clear. I didn't mean to try to introduce the unredacted statement. I wanted to assure myself and Ms. Oglesby that she did have the redacted statement so that only the open statements could be used. Was there a redacted statement or the unredacted statement? The Okay. Those are redacted ones with the black lines. All right.

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23:56 - 24:08 Host

So if you go outside and question this witness beyond what is basically not been redacted, then that's going to open the door for the state. So I just wanted to caution you of that before you went down that path.

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24:08 - 24:09 Host

Yes, sir.

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24:10 - 24:31 Host

All right. And so we'll finish with the recess. If anybody needs to use the facilities, the court will be in recess, and we'll get the jury back in here promptly at 2.30 and resume with your questioning, Mr. Young. Your Honor, if I may, I object to an issue here. To what? I object to a state's attorney going up to witnesses who are on a stand and whispering for me.

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24:32 - 24:38 Host

I wasn't whispering in what this is. I was getting a people's exhibit sticker. I'm thanking the court reporter for getting the exhibit sticker.

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24:38 - 25:00 Host

I apologize if I'm wrong, but it appeared to be as if he said something misaudibly. Court reporter, I'm kidding right there. All right. So, anything said in the courtroom is on the record, Mr. Young, so we're on the way. Please jump, please ride. Ms. Oglesby, did you take a medical history of Gigi Clarence?

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25:00 - 25:01 Host

I did.

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25:02 - 25:07 Host

And are you aware of some of her existing medical history?

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25:07 - 25:09 Host

I don't have that record in front of me.

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25:09 - 25:36 Host

Back to the... Back to the... The bruising, or I should say general medical, general exam continued. You stated that you generally notate all bruises or issues with the person's body when these complaints are made. However, here you've only stated bruises. Three bruises and red marks.

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25:37 - 25:53 Host

We heard a little while ago you spoke of several different bruises up and down the arm, to the lower legs, underneath the buttocks. Is there a reason for that? The reason that you did not notate all of these marks, they were fresh marks?

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25:54 - 25:57 Host

This was a very complex case and I documented it to the best of my ability.

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25:58 - 26:21 Host

I'd like to go to page three of acts described by a patient or a story. Can I pause there for a moment? When you notate these issues, per se, these happenings, these descriptions, you have to be, what's the word for it? Exact, maybe, where you take down what a declarant said, correct? Correct.

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26:23 - 26:23 Host

It's a victim, yeah.

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26:24 - 26:34 Host

Victim, declarant, victim. You take down what they say. You don't normally, for lack of a better word, mess up and mark something that says it's true, right?

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26:34 - 26:36 Host

What are you referring to?

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26:36 - 26:55 Host

Well, if you go down penetration of anus, it is the second subject under acts described by patient slash historian on page three of step two. Penetration of anus. It says by penis, finger, and object.

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26:58 - 26:58 Host

Correct.

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27:00 - 27:07 Host

Object, it was not marked here what the object was. And you have a section off to the right that says what.

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27:09 - 27:12 Host

That means the patient did not disclose to me what the object was.

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27:12 - 27:14 Host

Did you maybe ask her?

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27:14 - 27:15 Host

I don't recall.

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27:17 - 27:24 Host

Okay. And that is the anus. That is the rear end.

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27:28 - 28:02 Host

If you would go to page seven of step two, and that is the genital exam. You go down to anal exam, and it says patient declined. No obvious bleeding from rectum. It's clear, right? There's no obvious leading you were the one that analyzed that and examined that? Correct. As you did also examine the labial maneuver genital exam area up in the top left box, that is the vaginal cavity, correct?

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28:02 - 28:05 Host

The outer entrance to the vaginal cavity?

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28:05 - 28:06 Host

Correct.

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28:06 - 28:08 Host

And you noticed bleeding?

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28:09 - 28:09 Host

I did.

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28:09 - 28:25 Host

So it must be a To be penetrated by penis, finger, and object in the anal area, the anal calves, them are the descriptions CL put forth, correct?

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28:25 - 28:30 Host

I was unable to assess the rectum fully for the patient.

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28:30 - 28:33 Host

I understand. Them are the claims she placed forth, correct?

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28:35 - 28:36 Host

That she was penetrated anally.

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28:37 - 28:41 Host

By penis, fingers, penis, finger, and object.

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28:41 - 28:42 Host

That is correct.

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28:42 - 28:43 Host

There was no bleeding.

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28:43 - 28:50 Host

There was no obvious bleeding. I was unable to fully assess the rectum. There could have been bleeding that I was unable to assess.

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28:50 - 29:05 Host

The rectum is common knowledge. The rectum is... a bit smaller in diameter than vaginal cavity and quite a bit more sensitive to expansion or penetration, wouldn't you say?

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29:05 - 29:09 Host

I'm unable to answer that question.

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29:09 - 29:48 Host

If I give you a simple scenario, if I try to penetrate this cup with this highlighter here, it's not apt to do any damage, correct? Whereas if I tried to take this small flex pin and try to penetrate this cap, it'd be more apt to do damage because it's small. It's a less expandable area. It's tighter. That'd be a correct assumption based on educational and professional opinions.

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29:48 - 29:53 Host

I mean, the anus is generally tighter than the vagina. It's smaller.

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29:55 - 30:03 Host

Again, I'm, I'm unable to answer that question. And you could determinably nail or correct.

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30:05 - 30:08 Host

I was unable to fully assess the rectum due to the patient's wishes.

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30:09 - 30:47 Host

I'd like to go to page four of step two. Sorry, I apologize for bouncing around like this. I'm not a natural. If you go to Page four of step two, methods used by assailants. You have categories of weapons, punch, slap, kick, grab, held down, physical restraints, strangulation, bind, and vocal threats or use of ligature.

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30:49 - 30:50 Host

On weapons,

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30:51 - 31:00 Host

You marked yes. That's obviously because the victim, as you describe, stated it was a knife, true?

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31:01 - 31:01 Host

That's correct.

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31:02 - 31:03 Host

And did she say what kind of knife?

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31:04 - 31:06 Host

On the paper, it's noted a meat carving knife.

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31:07 - 31:11 Host

Meat carving knife. Meat carving knife. Thank you.

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31:13 - 31:15 Host

And punch, slap, kick.

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31:17 - 31:20 Host

What was that answer for that category there?

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31:21 - 31:22 Host

It's marked on the exam of no.

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31:23 - 31:29 Host

She was not slapped or kicked. Grabbed and held down. Did you answer that?

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31:30 - 31:32 Host

It's marked on the paper as yes.

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31:32 - 32:00 Host

Thank you. No physical restraints. No strangulation. And no burns. Correct. Chemical burns. We talked about chemical burns earlier on. Mr. Jones here. It's. clearly right here, burn, I would think that would follow your burns of most kinds, right? Wouldn't just be fire burns or gasoline burns of some kind.

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32:00 - 32:06 Host

I would say that that would be the way that the patient would interpret that when I asked her the yes or no question. Thank you.

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32:08 - 32:25 Host

And if you go down to the category for post-assault hygiene activity, Down the second one, over to the right, ate or drank? Is that a yes or a no?

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32:26 - 32:26 Host

Yes, she drank.

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32:27 - 32:46 Host

And that was previous to coming, obviously previous coming to the hospital, and maybe even at the hospital, true? Correct. And that states bay water, Bailey's on ice. So obviously watering Bailey's on ice.

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32:47 - 32:56 Host

True. Correct. And you also did a drug facilitated sexual assault.

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32:58 - 33:05 Host

DFSA. And that category holds subcategories loss of memory.

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33:07 - 33:13 Host

And that was a no. Correct. Along with loss of consciousness.

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33:15 - 33:39 Host

nausea, and vomiting, and drug and alcohol use, correct? Correct. No. And so if you proceed on page four of step two, or excuse me, I'm sorry, page five of step two, I want to touch base on pertinent medical issues for forensic lab as it's in your documentation here.

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33:39 - 33:41 Host

All right.

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33:43 - 34:20 Host

In pertinent medical history for forensic lab box, it has last menstrual period with a date and sexual contact within three days other than sexual assault. Correct. Correct. And last menstrual period, obviously unknown. 77 years old. True. True. And then you go down to the next sentence, sexual contact within three days other than sexual assault, excluding sexual assault claimed on 11-9-21.

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34:20 - 34:25 Host

I mean, that would read what box need check mark.

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34:25 - 34:26 Host

I'm sorry, I don't understand.

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34:27 - 34:44 Host

Sexual contact within three days other than sexual assault. Obviously, you had to ask her this box, ask her this information. She stated yes or no in accordance to sexual contact within three days other than the alleged assault, right? Correct. And that was yes.

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34:45 - 34:45 Host

Yes.

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34:46 - 35:16 Host

And as to anal contact and oral contact and condom use, them are all three no, correct? Correct. I'd like to touch base on anal contact real quick. She states no, and this is in reference to sexual contact within three days other than sexual assault. We reviewed page seven, the anal exam, and you obviously put patient inclined to obvious bleeding rectum.

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35:18 - 35:49 Host

I understand this is consensual here in a pertinent medical history for forensic lab. That's consensual. But that does coincide with not having any bargains on anything, correct? I'm going to object to this point. The witnesses multiple times testified that she was not able to complete a complete assessment of the anal exam based on convictions and issues. But she didn't, sir.

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35:49 - 36:18 Host

All right, so we're going to open with a little objection. Anybody answer? I'll state that again. Hurt in medical history for forensic lab. She states no on anal contact. True. Right. And that would coincide with page seven of anal exam. Patient declined. No obvious bleeding from record. If you didn't have anal sex, you'd most likely not have any marks.

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36:19 - 36:21 Host

This is outside of the sexual assault.

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36:22 - 36:26 Host

Yeah. But that does coincide with them, right? No more...

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36:28 - 36:29 Host

I'm not understanding.

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36:29 - 36:55 Host

Go ahead. I apologize. I may be worded wrong. I'm a little bit out of tune with this. Continuing on page five in general exam, the beginning of general exam. I'm sorry. I probably should have started this the first time. In the beginning of general exam on page five of step two, it says large area of bloody mucus was surrounding blood. The tachy? Tachy?

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36:55 - 36:56 Host

The TQI?

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36:56 - 37:12 Host

TQI. I apologize again. Patient states carpet cleaner was sprayed into her mouth after assault. There are no other descriptions in a general exam. And these are cranial descriptions. Cranial diagram, right?

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37:13 - 37:14 Host

It's a facial diagram?

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37:15 - 37:29 Host

And it also shows the head, too. I would say there's no other, I guess you could, in the page eight, it shows the head in general. There's no other markup, it's true.

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37:30 - 37:30 Host

On the face?

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37:31 - 37:35 Host

On anywhere on the head. Anywhere on the inside of the mouth?

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37:37 - 37:38 Host

Nothing that I have noted.

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37:38 - 38:04 Host

Nothing. Okay. These are very serious accusations, I think you can keep, correct? Correct. And you stated you are familiar with Ruth? Correct. And you're able to tell fresh Ruth from older Ruth? Correct. Could you give reports a brief description of, say, the coloring of fresh Ruth versus the coloring of older Ruth? Who's in the filling already?

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38:05 - 38:11 Host

Fresh bruising will be more of a dark purple, as in healing bruising will be a brownish or yellow.

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38:11 - 38:31 Host

And in the pictures, if I make, if I bring the picture of the hand back up on the screen, you see right here, all around here, here, and all around the neck area, that would be considered light yellowing, brownish.

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38:31 - 38:33 Host

It looks like just her skin color.

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38:35 - 38:55 Host

I mean, if you say it looks like her skin color, then it should probably appear as if. Judging on that side of the question, if you want to ask your question as a witness, she can do it, but it appears as if it's her skin color, right? Yes. And are these two colors here in this area and this area different?

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38:57 - 38:58 Host

Based on the lighting of the picture.

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38:59 - 39:02 Host

Clearly. Or just based on the picture? Yeah.

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39:03 - 39:05 Host

I'm not understanding what you're asking.

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39:05 - 39:17 Host

On the lower fingers here, if I use my left hand, on the lower finger here, it seems to be a normal skin color such as white.

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39:18 - 39:28 Host

And then if you get up here above the knuckle, right here, and back here on the hand, it seems to be yellow.

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39:29 - 39:31 Host

I think what you're seeing is a difference in lighting in the picture.

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39:37 - 39:42 Host

Yes. You stated lower knee for bruising, correct?

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39:44 - 39:45 Host

It just says left knee.

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39:47 - 39:49 Host

But you, just a few moments back, you stated.

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39:54 - 40:10 Host

By pointing out here, this appears to be, you know, the kneecap right here. You know, the kneecap here. Then you have the lower knee. I'd say it's quite a bit higher up on the knee, the lower, Drew.

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40:11 - 40:12 Host

It's the knee.

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40:13 - 40:26 Host

Are you, you can tell them honestly. Are you familiar with the fact that CL had a right total hip arthroplasty?

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40:27 - 40:32 Host

Hip joint replacement? If you jog your memory. I don't recall.

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40:35 - 40:51 Host

Do you know what a total hip arthroplasty is? I'm going to object at this point. It seems facts, not evidence. It's the worst question just to ask. I'll overrule. That's If you may answer the question, do you know what a sole hip arthroplasty is?

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40:52 - 40:53 Host

Yes.

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40:54 - 41:10 Host

Can you explain that to us, please? Objection. Relevant. Sustained. Sustained. It's obviously a hip replacement, Drew. Objection. Do you have a relevance? I don't know that it was a question.

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41:10 - 41:12 Host

So, Mr. Young, any more questions for this witness?

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41:13 - 41:35 Host

Yes, sir. Did you review any other reports other than your doctor's information? Did you maybe review Dr. Finster's reports or the overall reports to come to any other decisions in your termination? No. Mr. Jones, when you're ready with your question. Thank you.

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41:35 - 41:38 Host

Can you tell us your name, please, and if you could spell your last name?

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41:39 - 41:44 Host

Ada Kagumba, K-A-G-U-M-B-A.

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41:44 - 41:56 Host

And if I can get everybody here, I just want to make sure that microphone sometimes works better the closer you get to everybody. Dr. Kagumba, do you have a particular specialty that you practice in?

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41:56 - 41:58 Host

Yes, obstetrics and gynecology.

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41:58 - 41:59 Host

And how long have you done that?

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42:02 - 42:02 Host

25 years.

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42:03 - 42:06 Host

I want to talk to you specifically about November 16, 2021.

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42:06 - 42:29 Host

On November 16, 2021, I apologize. On November 16, 2021, did you meet with a patient by the name of Christina? Yes. Was that the first time that you ever met with her? Yes. What was the nature of why she was coming to see you?

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42:30 - 42:37 Host

For all the follow-ups, what was the reason? It was a follow-up after being seen in the emergency department following a sexual assault.

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42:38 - 42:44 Host

And you're not talking about what she said to her, but did you talk to Tina about what happened? Yes.

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42:45 - 42:48 Host

What was her emotional affect? How did she appear to you?

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42:49 - 43:04 Host

She appeared to be in shock. Describe death. It's as if she was watching something that had happened to her and that she couldn't believe had happened to her. She talked like it happened to somebody. Yes.

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43:04 - 43:11 Host

Almost like in the third person. Yes. Is that fair to say? Yes. Did you examine her?

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43:11 - 43:11 Host

Yes.

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43:13 - 43:35 Host

Now, you understood that the actual act would have occurred about a week before that, is that right? Yes. When you examined her, did you notice injuries and a state of heat? Yes. Were you also given the opportunity to look at photos that were taken by Nurse Jacqueline Oglesley all on November 9, 2021?

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43:36 - 43:50 Host

Yes. Specifically, I'm going to hand you some photographs and I'm going to ask you if these are the photographs you had a chance to observe. I've gone through them.

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43:51 - 44:15 Host

Dr. Kuguba, I want to talk to you first about the injuries to the outside of her body. When you examined her, did you notice bruising in a healing state on November 16th of 2021? Yes. And is it that bruising that you observed consistent with the photographs that you've had an opportunity to observe as far as the locations of those bruises, her hands, her knees, her buttocks?

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44:15 - 44:51 Host

Yes. Objection. You're off the ground. I don't believe this movement here can base her decision off of other photos that somebody else has taken. She obviously did not take her own photos or do her own assessment of record. Here's a based on another physician's assessment. I am a physician. I'm overruling the objections.

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44:52 - 45:15 Host

She is simply looking at the photographs and is testifying that the injuries she observed in healing on November 16th were consistent with the injuries that are depicted in those exhibits. And so there's no statement or hearsay that she's testifying about. She's a very photographic picture. Well, the objection is overruled in the answer to the question.

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45:16 - 45:39 Host

Again, the injuries that you saw with her hands, her knees, the bruising on her buttocks, the inner parts of her body, consistent with what you observed in the photographs you've had the opportunity to see. Yes. And I want to be clear, on November 16, 2021, you were not working at the behest of law enforcement, is that right?

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45:40 - 45:43 Host

I was not working at the behest of law enforcement.

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45:43 - 46:03 Host

You were not attempting to collect any evidence? No. You were concerned with your patient's medical history and medical? Yes. You've also had a chance to look at People's Exhibit 31 and 32, showing the Vaginal area of Christina Lohman on November 9, 2021.

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46:04 - 46:15 Host

Is that right? Yes. Are the injuries that you saw in People's Exhibit 31 and 32 consistent with sexual assault in your medical?

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46:16 - 46:25 Host

Yes. Thank you, Dr. Tugumba. That's all the questions I have. Do you have any cross-examination questions for this witness?

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46:27 - 46:35 Host

Your Honor, Just a few. Possibly one or two.

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46:35 - 47:18 Host

Dr. Anna Kaguba, you did observe, obviously, a week later, what could be potential marks from a sex assault or an assault in general, right? Yes. But they're not definitely from them occurrences, true? Yes. In fact, you have no factual determination that they were, other than one's declarants or one's statement stating that they may have had these issues upon your review of them, right?

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47:20 - 47:27 Host

The patient told me what happened, and I believed that the injuries she sustained fit with what she told me.

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47:28 - 47:49 Host

They fit, but they could be from other incidents also. True. They could. Thank you. You're obviously a doctor. I respect your level of profession. The vaginal cavities. Can you tell us a little bit about healing when it comes to the vaginal cavity?

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47:50 - 47:52 Host

I'm not sure what you mean exactly.

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47:52 - 48:13 Host

I mean, I'm human being. I don't have a vagina, obviously. But the vaginal cavity is one of the quickest healing parts of my true. I don't know that to be true. You don't know that to be true. But it does heal pretty quickly.

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48:14 - 48:17 Host

I'm not sure what you mean pretty quickly. Mom.

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48:22 - 48:32 Host

The marks, when you did your exams, what stage did the marks appear to be as far as the healing state?

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48:33 - 48:36 Host

Almost healed after a week, yes.

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48:36 - 48:39 Host

And you've obviously seen sexual assault victims, correct?

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48:39 - 48:40 Host

Yes.

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48:40 - 49:12 Host

And if, say, I use this as an example. Say if a person was... penetrated with something the diameter of this cup. The diameter of this cup here is pretty decent size. It's pretty big. If somebody would... Judge, I apologize. I have to object. We're making a record here. He says a cup, and he says pretty big. I think the appellate court's going to want something more definite than pretty big.

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49:14 - 49:44 Host

You can be more definite in describing for the record what cup you're using. The approximate size, Mr. Yon, will have a clear record per quart. Once again, I take this cup here. The cup's diameter is, I'd say, three, three and a half inches wide. If somebody was to drink by a cup, would that leave excessive markings? and probably most likely not be almost healed a week later.

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49:47 - 49:51 Host

She wasn't penetrated with a cup. She was penetrated with a penis.

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49:52 - 49:54 Host

Your penis.

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49:55 - 49:56 Host

Yes, she told me.

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49:56 - 50:01 Host

She told you, so that's 100% positive. Almost as if you were there, true?

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50:03 - 50:07 Host

As her physician, I believed what she told me. That's my job.

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50:08 - 50:10 Host

You believe it, but it's not a fact, truly.

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50:12 - 50:12 Host

True.

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50:13 - 50:24 Host

It's what she told me and what I documented. Thank you. Thank you. No further questions?

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50:24 - 50:29 Host

No, sir. Not at all. Mr. Jones, any further direct, redirect?

0
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50:29 - 50:30 Host

No, thank you, Your Honor.

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