In this episode of the Bites and Bytes Podcast, host Kristin Demoranville welcomes Rick Biros, the founder of Food Safety Tech and the Food Safety Consortium. Rick, an industry veteran with decades of experience, shares fascinating insights into the critical role of food safety and its intersection with Cybersecurity. From the early days of food safety regulations sparked by major outbreaks to today’s technological advancements, Rick discusses how the industry has evolved and why Cybersecurity is becoming an integral part of protecting our food supply. Rick also reflects on his journey from launching Food Quality magazine to creating the Food Safety Consortium, a must-attend event for senior-level food safety professionals. The episode covers how the Consortium fosters a collaborative environment for problem-solving and innovation, bringing together leaders from across the industry. Listeners will also hear Rick’s thoughts on the latest challenges facing the food industry, including the impact of recent cyber threats and how technology is reshaping food safety protocols. Whether you’re in the food industry, Cybersecurity, or just curious about the future of food protection, this episode offers a wealth of knowledge and practical insights. 🎉🎂 Happy 1st Birthday to the Bites and Bytes Podcast! 🎧🎉Here’s to a year of incredible conversations, industry insights, and amazing listeners like YOU! 🎙️🌟 Thank you for all your support—here’s to many more! 🥳 ________________________________________________________________________________________ Rick’s Information LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/rick-biros-860bb47/ Food Safety Tech Bio: https://foodsafetytech.com/about-us/ ________________________________________________________________________________________ Show Notes: Brussels memory – La Truffe Noire Restaurant https://www.truffenoire.com/en/ What is Candling wine? https://www.instagram.com/cristienorman_somm/reel/C9A2l-hyOjV/ Jack-in-the-box crisis https://outbreakdatabase.com/outbreaks/jack-in-the-box-restaurant-chain-ground-beef-hamburgers-1992 Mark Carter – president of IAFP (International Association for Food Protection) https://www.foodprotection.org/about/news-releases/mark-carter-assumes-presidency-of-the-international-association-for-food-protection/ Food Safety Modernization Act (FSMA) https://www.fda.gov/food/guidance-regulation-food-and-dietary-supplements/food-safety-modernization-act-fsma Boars Head Crisis https://www.fsis.usda.gov/recalls-alerts/boars-head-provisions-co--expands-recall-ready-eat-meat-and-poultry-products-due https://www.marlerblog.com/case-news/bill-marler-free-advice-for-boars-head-ceo-and-other-after-a-foodborne-illness-outbreak/ Peanut Corp of America Crisis https://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2015/09/21/442335132/peanut-exec-gets-28-years-in-prison-for-deadly-salmonella-outbreak Bill Marler https://billmarler.com/ Sabra – Salmonella incident 2021 https://www.fda.gov/inspections-compliance-enforcement-and-criminal-investigations/warning-letters/sabra-dipping-company-llc-615938-12012021 Rob Mommsen https://www.linkedin.com/in/rob-mommsen-b6848211/ Frank Yiannas https://foodsafetytech.com/news_article/boars-head-appoints-frank-yiannas-as-chief-food-safety-advisor-and-finalizes-food-safety-advisory-council/#:~:text=Boar's%20Head%20Brand%20announced%20on,and%20quality%20across%20the%20organization. https://www.smarterfysolutions.com/ David Theo – Jack-in-Box https://www.latimes.com/local/obituaries/la-me-david-theno-20170710-story.html ________________________________________________________________________________________ Food Safety Tech https://foodsafetytech.com/ ➡️ Subscription to the free newsletter: https://innovativepublishing2.actonsoftware.com/acton/media/3357/food-safety-tech-newsletter-opt-in-page ________________________________________________________________________________________ Innovative Publishing Company https://www.linkedin.com/company/innovative-publishing-company-llc/ http://innovativepublishing.net/ ________________________________________________________________________________________ Food Safety Consortium Conference https://foodsafetyconsortium.org/ ➡️ Register here: https://www.eventleaf.com/Attendee/Attendee/EventPage?eId=RCMrOPTC6EZVv99yKxyQJw%3D%3D 💰⭐ Discount code for $200.00: RickyB ________________________________________________________________________________________ Kristin Demoranville Speaking at: Food Safety Consortium Conference, Arlington, VA https://foodsafetyconsortium.org/ BREAKOUT 3: Food Defense in the Digital Era 2:15 PM - 3:00 PM EST on Monday, October 21st ICS Cyber Security Conference, Atlanta, GA https://www.icscybersecurityconference.com/ Agriculture at Risk: Recognizing and Securing Our Forgotten Critical Infrastructure 11 AM EST on Thursday, October 24th InCyber Forum Canada, Montreal, QC https://northamerica.forum-incyber.com/en/home-en/ Guardians of the food supply chain: cybersecurity resilience in agriculture and food safety 1:55 PM to 2:40 PM EST on Tuesday, October 29th 💰⭐ 50% discount code: ININ59XU2CF3 ➡️ Registration link: https://2024.northamerica.forum-incyber.com/en/pe1/pe1-home.htm ________________________________________________________________________________________ Bites and Bytes Podcast Info: TikTok Website: Explore all our episodes, articles, and more on our official website. Visit Now Merch Shop: Show your support with some awesome Bites and Bytes gear! 🧢👕 Shop Now Blog: Stay updated with the latest insights and stories from the world of cybersecurity in the food industry. Read Our Blog Audience Survey: We value your feedback! Help us make the podcast even better. Take the Survey Schedule a Call with Kristin: Want to share your thoughts? Schedule a meeting with Kristin! Schedule Now
food safety issue you're talking about borishead and you know they they had issues in the plant that were just being ignored is it the same with cider you know if you're not really paying attention to this then that's potentially negligence Correct.
So, and if that led to some form of a malicious intent on the food company that led to a food safety problem that led to potential injuries or deaths all the way back. And I think that's an area that is completely under-discussed.
Hey, everyone. Welcome back to the Bites and Bites podcast. I am your host, Kristen Nemiran-Bill. Today, we have an awesome guest, Rick Byros, the founder of Food Safety Tech and the Food Safety Consortium Conference. We will discuss how food safety and cybersecurity are more connected than you think. Also, we'll discuss some current news in food safety.
And Rick has some fantastic insights, so you won't want to miss this episode. But before we get started, I just wanted to say a heartfelt thank you to all of you for your love and support over the past month. As many of you know, I recently lost my grandfather, my last living biological grandparent.
Your kind words, messages, and calls have all meant so much to my family and me, and we are deeply grateful. Thank you from the bottom of my heart. On a positive before we get started with the show, a little bonus for you today. Make sure you listen all the way through and grab a special discount code for the Food Safety Consortium Conference. I hope you enjoy my conversation with Rick.
Well, hi, Rick. Thanks for joining the show. I'm going to jump straight into it before you do your introduction. I would like to know what your favorite food is and your favorite food memory.
I don't know what my favorite food is because I like lots of food.
Do you have a food fixation at the minute? No. Okay.
I'm very blessed with my wife, my partner, who is an absolutely phenomenal cook. And I've been told many times that I'm just a very lucky man. I get really great meals three times a day. So favorite, yeah, there's some things that I like, but let's put it this way. Let's reverse this. There's very few things I don't like. That's what I come down to.
But you asked the second question, which was food experience. That I have an answer. Okay. Actually, my wife and I were traveling in Europe on business. And we were in Brussels. And we ended up going to a restaurant called Truffes du Noir. Okay. It was on the very northern part of the city. And a restaurant that had everything on the menu had truffles. The experience was unbelievable.
Not only was the food good, but the experience itself was. We just happened to be served by the owner of the restaurant. Love that. And he explained everything to us, and he had... Both kinds of truffles. And even he, when we ordered a bottle of wine, we relied on his recommendation. But then he handled the wine, which I'd never seen before. I actually had no idea what he was doing.
So I had to ask and he explained. having the pouring the wine from the bottle over the candle with the neck of the bottle being heated by the candle into a decanter does something extra to open up the wine and have it blossom and boy was he right. Yeah. Probably never spent that much money on a dinner.
It's experience. You paid for the experience.
And we still talk about it to this day. It was really amazing.
That sounds amazing. Of course, you have to like truffles in order to appreciate this experience.
Yeah. But, you know, I mean, we even had truffles on ice cream.
I've heard that's good. I mean, I like caviar and coconut ice cream, which is a weird combo too. Okay.
And so on everything that he would serve, everything, he would have the truffles in his hand and a grater and would shave it on top of your, in addition to what was already cooked into it as well. That's amazing. It was an amazing experience.
That sounds so fun. So I love your memory. That's brilliant. And also, I think that we can say your favorite food is probably anything your wife makes.
So that's probably, I feel like that's accurate. We'll go with like 99%.
I mean, you have your bad days. Like I made a bad meal the other day. Thank you very much for that, Rick. And I'm going to let you introduce yourself to the audience.
My name is Rick Byros. I know Kristen through working with her on a conference that I run and I launched called the Food Safety Consortium. In addition to the Food Safety Consortium, we also publish a digital publishing platform called foodsafetytech.com, which is... Same type of articles in our traditional trade journal, but now done online. We distribute our contents through weekly newsletters.
I'm the content director, founder, publisher, chief bottle washer at Innovative Publishing, which is a parent company. Another platform called MedTech Intelligence, a colleague of mine runs. And we also have Cannabis Industry Journal.
And I am a subscriber to Food Safety Tech. So should you know, Rick, I don't know if you ever knew that, but I am. It's actually really great, especially for those of us who are on the peripheral of the industry, because it's, you know, current events, opinions, what's going on. It's actually a really, you've done a brilliant job.
I haven't found an article on there that I didn't find to be engaging. Maybe I haven't dug deep enough, but generally speaking, everything I've read has been great. You could tell that it's well curated and well loved. So thank you for that work. You mentioned the consortium, the Food Safety Consortium, which is actually coming up in October. I am a speaker, but we can get into that later.
Why did you start this, Rick? Why did you decide to start a conference, to start a publication? Those are two things I don't think people wake up in the morning and think, I want to do that because it's a lot of work and you do a great job. I'm not saying that the conference isn't wonderful and I just obviously raved about your publication, but why? What led you to that?
you know i guess for for many things there's some sort of stimulant or something that got it started and then things snowball so actually the legacy goes back well beyond even the launch of food saving tech a long time ago very early in my career what made the headlines was the e coli outbreak in the pacific northwest pacific yeah
The year was 1993, and I at the time was working on a trade publication as the national sales manager of a trade publication that was called Food Engineering. And I don't know why, but just this Jack in the Box thing broke out and just caught my interest. Yeah. Oh, it was awful. So I could see why. Four children died.
And interestingly enough, not all of them actually ingested E. coli tainted hamburger.
Yeah, there were other kids.
Yeah. So I just started investigating it. I started investigating it for I was working for a company that was food engineering. And I thought this could be a publication that could be, because we're looking into the idea of a food safety or a food quality publication that could be published alongside Food Engineer.
And I did a lot of research on it, came up with a business plan, ready to present it to my boss. I told him about it conceptually. He thought it was a dumb idea. Oh, jeez. and never even entertained the business. So I was disappointed to say the least.
And I ended up just having this idea, ended up leaving my job, getting a little bit of seed capital from a relative and mortgaging the house and started a company based on a launch of a magazine called Food Qualities. I did that for 12 years, 13 years. Built it up. It was a print magazine. We ended up doing two other print magazines and ended up selling the products to John Wiley and Sons.
I worked there for two years. I decided working in a big corporate environment was not really for me. I understand that. I think it fits for some people. It just didn't. And decided to leave and left in 2009 at the height of a recession with a non-compete. Oh boy. And also feeling that print was dead and we needed to come up with a new platform.
So we also, when I had Food Quality Magazine, I had pharmaceutical formulation quality. So I learned about the FDA regulations from not only food, but also pharma. Couldn't do anything in that market either. So decided to launch Red Tech Intelligence, which was for the medical device industry, focused on regulatory compliance. It took two years to really perfect the business model.
And during that period, I got introduced to somebody and we decided to launch the conferences allied to it. So- After two years, my non-compete was up. So I took the business model that we had developed MedTech and applied that back to truly my roots in my career had been all within the food processing publishing industry.
So I took what I learned there and we still publish MedTech intelligence, but then got back into the industry that I know and I love people that I've, you know, we're working with food quality. Now I was now working in the state. That also is why the Food Safety Consortium was an extension of publishing.
That is, I didn't actually know the whole story. So I really appreciate that. Now I have even more respect because you had to be patient too and kind of wait for some things to get together. And you had a fundraise. I mean, I'm sure you're still fundraising, but entrepreneurs, we never stop. But that's amazing.
And I don't really know if people know that story when they go to the consortium, obviously, because they just go and they listen to the talks and they do their things and they network.
There's just, you know, there's a lot of legacy. Talking to Mark Carter, who's the president of IDFP. And Mark and I go back almost 30 years as friends. He's doing a webinar with me, but also potentially speaking at the consortium. But, you know, Mark and I have known each other for years.
And I could rattle off a bunch of other people that just through the course of 30 years, you know, and it's a really great industry.
It really is. I went to my first consortium three years ago, I think it was now, Rick. I think we've known each other for about three years. And I have never felt more seen by an industry that was not my industry. I mean, accepted immediately. I didn't even think about it. They didn't think about it. I was just immediately sit down, talk to us.
And I just fell in love with the group of people and I'm still, and now I'm friends with most of them. So it's really this great community, like you said, that just comes together and wants to do the right thing. And the reason why it's such a good conference too is it's the candor that can come from it. Everybody speaks freely. There's really not a lot of fear in that.
Obviously, the government agents, they take their beat, which is fine. But I was never at a conference where people just kind of like raised their hand and spoke and just said what they wanted to say in the crowd. And that, I mean, I kind of went back to the security community and I thought, wow, we should really be doing that more, right?
So we should be speaking our minds, but we play politics a lot. So that's hard. But I just want you to know, I love that you've cultivated this networking, inclusive group that gets together and is able to actually share problems and find actual solutions. I was watching solutions being presented in real time. It was really wonderful to see that.
And I'm very excited to see what's going to happen this year as well, since we've got a lot to talk about with like, you know, Boar's Head and speaking of disasters and a few other things. And all the new regulations that are supposedly coming out and all these other fun things.
I wanted to ask, because you got me thinking while you were talking, what is your most memorable moment from the publication and also the consortium? So you keep that in your head whenever you think about it.
On the publishing side, actually within food quality, I ended up leading a project called a long time ago, but it was really kind of one of those events in your career that you really look back on fondly of. So come the time, the technology of ATP, environmental monitoring, really been just introduced. There was a lot of confusion in the industry on what it does.
Some people in the industry thought it was actually replaced into traditional microbiology or definitive results. So I ended up leading a project that that We had readers of our magazine do demo tests, actually, and use an instrument in their plant for two weeks. And we put together an evaluation form for them to fill out, and they were able to demo.
I think there were six or seven different companies that participated, providing each of our testers with an instrument and the supplies needed and instructions on how to use it. And then we compiled all this data into a research project that turned into an article. In addition to this, it was a pretty serious topic.
And in order to just also have a little bit of fun with it, ATP is the same technology or the same chemical process that takes place in a firefly's butt load. Oh. Yeah. Excellent. So when there's presence of protein from a swab and then you connect that with the test, it glows like fireflies.
We ended up hiring a cartoonist who did these personified fireflies flying around with swabs and quality control, you know, hairnets and things like that on them with the names of the different instruments manufacturers on their back or something like that. And That's brilliant. It was a lot of fun. And so when we did that and that article came out, it really made a massive impact in the street.
We were hearing about that article five years later. There were companies that requested permission to use the artwork that we contracted for their marketing purposes. And we're using it 10 years later.
That's amazing. Yeah.
experience. Within the consortium, there's a lot of like micro experiences. Basically, it's feedback from attendees. To your point, I heard back from somebody who I guess was kind of a mid-level person, possibly a shy person. Okay. And she said to me that she doesn't like public speaking. She doesn't like crowds.
But the way I handled questions and answers of speakers, even like senior level FDA people, she said I took the intimidation out. And she was comfortable enough to stand in front of a group of people and ask questions. So she got a tremendous amount of value out of our conference. But she told me that the way we ran it and the way I... And I didn't even... Yeah, it wasn't the intent.
I didn't think of this as just like kind of who I am. Much more casual, conversive versus stiff and sticking to a script. And she just felt so comfortable. She was able to get very engaged with the conference and got a lot out. So things like that.
That's great. That's good feedback, actually. That's really great feedback.
who told me that they exhibit at many larger conferences or trade shows, 10 times the size of the audience that we have. But he said that he got so much value out of ours because it's a smaller, more intimate type of setting for even exhibitors that are really just tabletops in front of the meeting room. And he walked away with 21 set appointments from mid to senior level exhibitors.
Good for him. We get maybe a lot more leads from, say, a bigger show, but not the quality of the follow-up meetings. We usually, okay, well, yeah, follow up, but I actually have a point of 21 spread out over the next three weeks. Wow, that's great. He said that already is a great ROI.
So from both an attendee standpoint, exhibitor standpoint, we just get good feedback and get a lot of that, and that's why I call them kind of these micro experiences.
That's awesome. How many years has it been running now?
It's 12. Coming up to its, you know, this year will be its 13th.
Oh, so you got a teenager.
Yeah, yeah.
You got a teenager now. Wow.
Thanks for reminding me.
No problem. I'm here for all the weird information.
Having lived through three teenagers, four teenagers. Oh, yeah, that's a lot. There were three years of COVID, too.
Yeah, you converted to online for that, didn't you?
The first year was good. The second year, I think people were kind of burnt out with everything being.
Yeah. Yeah, I could totally get that.
Plus, the industry went through some weird times with structuring. Yeah. Trying to do audits virtually and sure about that. Reduction in enforcement from FDA.
Yeah.
We lost a lot of people as well. I mean, not because of COVID specifically, but a lot of people lost their jobs. Yeah. Yeah, that was a weird time. Yeah. I don't think a lot of people even realize how much the food supply chain got rocked during the COVID times.
I don't really feel like there's really no great way to illustrate it other than we realized how broken it was, I guess, is probably the good thing that came out of it. And now we're trying to claw our way back. And not position flexibility. Correct. It was not agile at all. Hey listeners, a quick break from my conversation with Rick. The Bites and Bytes podcast is officially one years old.
It's been a fantastic year. And again, thank you to all of the OG listeners and the new listeners for joining me on this journey. I'm excited about the next chapter of the podcast, and I can't wait to bring you along.
Also, I want to take a moment and send a massive thank you to all of you who voted for the Bites and Bites podcast and the technology category for the Women in Podcasting Network Awards of 2024. Seriously, your support means the world to me, and I'm so grateful. The winners will be announced at the end of October, so stay tuned.
Fingers crossed, and thank you again for being such amazing listeners. Now back to my conversation. I'd like to say that there's been improvements since then, but we still are very rigid. And I think some of the things that have recently happened in the news, a.k.a. Boar's Head, has kind of reminded us that we need to pivot a little bit better and create cultures where people can say things.
Because obviously the reason why nothing happened there was because people didn't feel comfortable enough to say anything. I'm guessing there was just a really bad culture in that culture. plant. Now, this is me speculating. I'm not going any further.
But that's why I think it's so important for events like this to be the way they are, Rick, because it needs to have that kind of culture vibe where people can feel accepted and okay to talk about problems that are going on in their facilities in an open, transparent way with respect, of course, to like NDAs without fear or ridicule or shame for, oh, you had that problem? You're obviously a loser.
I've never felt that way standing at the conference because, well, first of all, I mean, I'm the outlier, either the or one of two that is from the cybersecurity world. I get excited when I see another cybersecurity person. I'm like, look, hi. It's just one of those things. Anyways, but I wanted to ask, who attends the conference?
like who was what's the demographic for attendance like what kind of jobs do they have and i'm saying this because i want i want my cyber security side of the listener house to hear this because they you're included so well the primary persona of a person attending is going to be a mid to senior level food safety and quality assurance these people are not learning food safety 101.
at very entry-level type of training. This is more for senior level folks coming for information on food policy, what's going on in Washington, degree of new technology that's introduced, certainly regulatory compliance issues and best practices, learning. Sometimes it's just good to hear and share experiences.
yeah for sure equally learn anything new it either helps person understand that they're not experiencing something unique and that many other people are experiencing those challenges or that there may actually be doing better you did um you did round tables last year and i sat on a couple and i've learned so much
Just from listening to people tell me their stories about what happened to their company or I mean, it's China Mouse rules. We're not all going to be like, oh, this company is, you know, it doesn't matter. But the fact that people were able to really be candid with me and saying, I don't understand technology. I know I work with it, but like, what's the bad stuff?
And it was that nice moment of we need to do more of that. you know, as an industry, specifically both the food and the cybersecurity side of the house. And I love that you facilitate that. I thought that was one of the best parts, personally. I still think, and then obviously the hallway chatter, because I can't go five feet without having a conversation or getting involved in something.
And then, you know, there's so many characters in the food industry. I mean, we know so many people that just are bigger than life personalities and really make it so much more enjoyable. It takes the drudgery of the roles that we do out a little bit, which is really helpful because sometimes we really hear some really sad, nasty stuff. Like we really do. And it can be really draining at times.
I'm sure this year will be rough at talking about everything. Listeria is a nasty thing. I can't believe we're still dealing with it truthfully. You mentioned technology, and I love that one of your favorite memories from the publishing is a technology rise, essentially. So you've been doing this for 13 years, Rick, right? And obviously you've had a food career before that.
Technology is all of a sudden sort of, I think, in the last decade, really, just taken off in the food industry. It's gone all kinds of directions. I was listening to some podcasts this morning about the agricultural side, and they've got tech that's crazy. I was like, excuse me, what? Now we've got this to deal with? But how do you see it going?
Because we've got a lot of really big issues that are coming up that I think only technology is going to be able to really solve. And we're still not solving the problem of, you know, the ransomware attacks that are happening in the industry and the other types of cyber attacks and the insider threats and all the other issues that go along with food safety in terms of the digital physical world.
Just curious what your thoughts are, like the last 13 years, how that has looked.
When we first started doing the consortium, we actually had a gentleman from the Division of Homeland Security request to speak at the consortium. And the topic was on food defense. It was really more about insider threats, almost like a disgruntled employee. Yeah, insider threats, yeah. Now it's about cybersecurity attacks.
How does things like cybersecurity actually translate into issues of food safety? What it really comes down to is that the mid and larger size food companies are becoming more dependent on technology. I mean, the reality of it is this business is a high volume, low margin business. That's right. squeeze a little bit more on the margin because it's so high volume that it doesn't impact.
In addition to that, from a regulatory compliance issue, you're having things like FSMA 204, which is a traceability issue. You can't do that in any quick time without really utilizing technology.
Actually, the new FISMA guidelines actually have clauses and they're talking about how there has to be cybersecurity protocols around your food safety protocols in terms of tech. So I was like, hello, does anybody know this? Now all the listeners do, but like, you know, that's not something that's been like broadcast in like cybersecurity world.
Well, you know, it actually, nor has it really been broadcast in the industry that much.
Yeah.
There's been A little bit of a disconnect, in my opinion, on some of the conferences, ours, as well as other ones out there, have had the topic of service. You know, this one presentation that I sat in on was talking about changing your passwords. I'm like, really? You know, don't open up suspect-looking emails. I mean, that goes without saying. Make money with a Gmail account.
Yeah, you still have to say it, though. And I hate that we have to say it because I think that people just think cybersecurity is strong passwords, two-factor authentication, don't share your passwords. You know, just good hygiene in general. It has to be said because people still use the same password for their Gmail as they do for their email at work.
You know, until we fix the human problem, it has to be said. However, I don't enjoy saying it. I hate saying it because I feel like, like you said, people should know this. They should know better. We teach it to elementary school kids. Like, come on, you know, but it is what it is.
I think the opportunity lies with probably coming from the cybersecurity world into actually explaining to the food companies what the plans are. Yeah, I agree. There's threats to food companies from cyber attack that are not related to the safety of the others. Uh-huh. Ransom, chip anything. We've got your customer database. We've got this. We've got that. Right.
Actually, what I think would be helpful is more and more examples, potential food safety and quality issues that could happen as a result of a cyber attack. So I learned about this one company that had programmable logic controllers.
Yep, PLCs.
Their patches and fixes were available on the internet with no password, mainly on secure websites for a major company that was flying. So what if that was hacked? What if that was even replaced? What if that website, it could cause, you know, by having all the valves controlled differently than they should be, it could wreak major havoc and potentially cause a food safety threat.
Some companies even don't. I think that would be those topics or cited examples of a cyber attack on a company and specifically how that relates to safety and quality would be important and also the financial impact to that company. They couldn't even be viewed as liable for this because they didn't put enough safety measures in to prevent that from happening.
Before we jump back in, I wanted to let you know where you can catch me live this October. I'll be speaking at the Food Safety Consortium on Monday, October 21st, followed by the ICS Conference in Atlanta from October 22nd to 24th. You won't want to miss my talk at that conference on Thursday, October 24th.
After that, I'm heading to Montreal for the Insider Conference from October 28th through 30th, where I'll be on a fantastic panel with some of our previous podcast guests. All the details will be in the show notes. Now, I've got an exciting deal for you. Rick has been incredibly generous and offered a discount code to the Food Safety Consortium.
Use the code RICKYB at checkout to get $200 off your ticket. That's R-I-C-K-Y-B. Huge thanks to Rick for making this available to all the listeners. The Food Safety Consortium from October 19th to 22nd. The link to register will be in the show notes and you can find out more details at foodsafetyconsortium.org.
You know, it seems all like a regular food safety issue. You were talking about Boar's Head and, you know, they had issues in the plant that were just being ignored. Is it the same with cider? You know, if you're not really paying attention to this, then that's potentially negligence. Correct. So, and if that led to some form of a malicious intent on the food company,
that led to a food safety problem that led to potential injuries or deaths all the way back. And I think that's an area that is completely under discussed.
Correct. And it should be, especially since chief information security officers are being held accountable for Now, it does a food safety CISO or CISA, however you want to say it. Do they want to take full responsibility for a foodborne illness off a production line that came from a cyber attack? No, of course not.
But would that motivate them to make sure that all the protocols were covered and we're constantly monitoring and being prepared and being resilient rather than just recovering? No. Yeah. So I see the good and the bad with it. It's a slippery slope too, Rick, because there's not enough people that understand the system. You know what I mean?
The system of food and the system of how technology and food are together. You know as well as I do in these facilities, it's production uptime and employee safety. And that's all anybody cares about. Obviously food safety is included in that conversation, but it's, it's that constant movement. We gotta be agile. We gotta go, we gotta go. And if it gets in the way, they don't wanna deal with it.
So the idea, and I know that this is where I've sat down and I had some really awesome conversations at the conference and beyond.
Realizing that food defense and food safety and security have to work with business mindsets of how do we incorporate us into their bottom line, if you will, their production uptime and their employee safety and creating that food safety culture to grab the whole trifecta of buzzy words. But cybersecurity is part of that now.
And again, I just go back to, it just makes complete logical sense to me. It's like a no-brainer. Like, of course we're involved in that now. Like, of course we are. But because the focus is always so heavily on the tech, people forget about all of the social engineering around it, all of the other little things that could happen, how it's a domino effect.
You've already displayed that very well in what you just said. So I think we've got a lot of work to do. And I think... We've got a lot of ways to figure out how to work together and collaborate. I am very grateful that the food teams generally are very accepting of us. I do get a lot of conversations about how do I talk to cybersecurity and technology in my own company because they're not you.
You're nice. I could talk to you. That's what I get. And I'm like, I said, you're a food company, right? They're like, yeah. I said, just bring them some food. Start with a peace offering. I mean, when I was in food production, there was always food around. So, I mean, it's always in the break rooms and stuff, depending on what it is. I mean, obviously, you're not going to want like a can of soup.
But if you have like a bakery company, just bring whatever you're making there. I also said, you know, a lot of it comes down to they're very busy. They feel like they're on fire all the time, too. So if you can find ways to work with them, come up ideas that would help them alleviate their stress, then do it. It's kind of reciprocal in that regard.
I do know some really great programs that some of the food companies are doing well in terms of cybersecurity. But I still haven't seen the true partnership between food safety and incorporation to food safety culture. It's definitely talked about more now. People are definitely paying attention.
I know over the last like three years that I've been attending, it's definitely been more of a topic of conversation. And I think I've spoken in every one since I've been there and I will continue because it constantly needs to be repeated. But you're right. I think we need more scenario based conversations.
I think that's really important to talk about it like that because people only understand if you can tell a story, that's a different conversation, right? You know this from being in publishing. If you can tell it in a way that makes people remember, it might cause a reaction rather than, oh, that's not my job. And I hope that's not what happened at Boar's Head either, because yikes.
We actually introduced a last minute new session for the consortium specifically on this. The original session was on root cause analysis. presenter, and it's changing around, but what she's doing is researching the USDA record.
There's not everything that's going to be available to her by October 21st, but what is available publicly, they're going to be looking at, reviewing, and discussing, and how for attendees to potentially avoid those problems. How did this happen? Was this a sort of a bystander effect? Everyone thought in the plant, well, someone must be dealing with it.
So no one actually raised a flag and said, this is a problem. At the same time, USDA had a, you know, they brought this up, you know, they're in the plant, they're seeing this, they brought up concerns about this, but it wasn't being addressed by anything, just polar inspectors. Yeah.
There seems like it's a series of unfortunate events that just kind of really went sideways. I mean, this is as bad as like the peanut corporation of America, but granted that was a different situation. That was malicious. This is so far not malicious, thankfully. That's real rough.
But we don't know all the facts. To your point though, it was a food safe culture, one that prevented people from sneaking up. So therefore, one could construe that as being righteous. Certainly, Marler must be representing one or more.
Yeah, he's put out some really powerful posts on LinkedIn, actually. I'll link a few into the show notes for the listeners, but he's definitely made me go, whoa, this is a really bad situation beyond it was already bad because people had lost their lives and have major complications beyond that. But the fact that, you know, I was speaking about this on a podcast this
this morning that the community was really ultimately affected heavily in that area of Virginia. They laid off 500 people. That's in a rural part of Virginia. That's not, that's 500 people in the workforce. That's not good. Like that's, that's really bad. And it's not like they got severance. The plant got closed. Like it's not, it's not going to be, this is, this is scary. It's frustrating. Yeah.
Yeah.
People didn't have to die. People didn't have to get sick and people did not have to lose their jobs.
Unfortunately, someone's going to have to answer for it.
and the brand is tarnished big time i mean it's being made fun of in the media i saw boar's head hummus the other day and i was like absolutely not like i won't i won't touch anything from them right now because i don't know what their other facilities are like that's what i thought in my head and i'm i'm in the quote no but what about people who don't know you know that's what's really concerning because this is now
an opportunity for Horsehead to really try and grab hold of the situation. There are times where really bad things happen. It really depends on how the food company, specifically the food company to manage, supports food safety and quality assurance people on how to address this.
Yeah.
So, actually in Virginia, Sabra Dipping Sauce had two big outbreaks years ago. And then? The Director of Food Safety is Rob Mamoson. Rob actually spoke at the consortium, and he was, and it was interesting, he had his corporate attorney sitting next to him, and usually those are the ones that tell you to shut up, don't say anything. You can't do this, you can only do that.
By advice of our counsel, I emerged befriending from comment. Now, they both just put everything out on the table and discussed how bad they screwed up and what they were doing about, what they did to fix it.
They were an open book and, you know, people, I heard back, you know, this is probably one of those moments that where I heard back that, you know, someone just could not believe how open and honest and genuine they were.
That's rare. Because normally it's shame and hiding.
But that is the community that's coming out to the conferences are like that. Yes, I would agree. You know, this is really an opportunity for us to say, hey, okay, we're taking all our shifts. We messed up. Here's what we've learned. Here's what we're doing going forward. I mean, they might be forced into this. This thing could be dragging out for a long time.
They could be, you know, the CEO can drag them out of Congress. Yeah.
Oh, he probably will be. That's probably already, it's going to happen.
With problems that they had, you know, and it took a door blowing off. Yeah. The point is, is that it ultimately comes down to worker integrity, which is a component of food safety culture. Agreed. So again, back to your point, we're speculating because we don't know right now, but was the culture one in which you should not speak up?
Yeah, I mean, we could speculate because that's what makes sense, ultimately. Otherwise, it's just malicious intent at that point because everyone's accountable. I'm sure none of those people feel good about what's going on. I mean, it's gotta feel like crap. Trying to get away with something or not.
I guess we're gonna find out. But I think a lot's going to come out. There's still a lot that can come out over time. This topic is not going to go away. And there are certain companies that unfortunately have their name associated with certain outbreaks.
But, you know, that industry, the industry of fast food hamburgers really worked together because when there's E. coli in one brand, sales of hamburgers go down across all the brands.
Sure. And that's when they put the regulation for the temperature for meat, which they should have done a long time ago. But, I mean, it became a law.
Exactly. So again, this is a big deal. It is a big deal. I haven't seen something like this to this degree in a while. And I don't think it's going to go away.
It's such a... There's so many things we could say about it, obviously. Personally, professionally, the whole thing. Hi, everyone. This is Kristen from the future. Before we continue, I wanted to provide an update since we recorded this episode. There's been significant news about the Boar's Head incident we discussed within this podcast.
Boar's Head is now appointed Frank Giannis, the former deputy commissioner of food policy and response at the U.S. FDA as their new chief food safety advisor. According to the recent article from Food Safety Tech, In this leadership role, Frank will be responsible for ensuring top-tier food safety and quality across the entire organization.
He'll also lead a nationwide search for a chief food safety officer to succeed him. In addition to his advisory role, Frank will chair the Boar's Head Food Safety Advisory Council. This council includes independent, industry-leading food safety experts who will help guide the company in adopting enhanced food safety programs.
If you're interested in hearing more from Frank, he will also be speaking at the Food Safety Consortium this year, where he'll be covering the topics of listeria and food processing environments. So stay tuned for what's sure to be a very insightful session. Now back to my chat with Rick. But I do remember, and I'm sure you saw it, they did post for the new head of food quality for Borsad.
And I was like, is it too soon? I mean, they obviously need the help. But I thought, wow, whoever takes that role better have mixed in. Some of the heroes. They will be.
The late David Thieno was the one who stepped in for Jack and the Pugs.
Uh-huh.
And he built a legacy. It's really, for someone who is a go-getter, that's a phenomenal opportunity and maybe one that should be honored to come in and fix a system that's broke.
That'd be one hell of a speaker if you could get them next year. You should totally. I mean, everybody needs to figure out who it is quickly and get that conversation going. But there are those in the industry that are like... Yeah, and I think that there are so many unsung heroes that are in the food safety space anyways.
It's a privilege to stand around these people because you know that they have prevented massive disasters. And I think that's why I gravitate towards... The food industry more than I have in any other industry is because it's not just about safeguarding data, it's about safeguarding lives. And you can always feel good about waking up in the morning for that reason.
And not that I'm saying anybody who just worries about data doesn't have a reason to get up, but that extra little like good of humanity and the good of the planet, like that feels really good. You know, it helps you charge up the hill a little bit faster. I really appreciate this, Rick, because first of all, I've learned a lot. So thank you very much.
I always love when I learn things on the podcast. I want to close out with what are your top few things that you think are very misunderstood in the food safety side? Because I have a lot of listeners that are in the operational technology space, cybersecurity, IT. I got a whole gamut of people who listen.
But what do you want people to know that they're misunderstanding, especially since you write a publication because you hear this and you know this?
Food safety is not a cost system. It should be put there as a profit center. If done right, maybe more floats to the top of either food protection, food quality, or it's a line item in most P&Ls are expense and not necessarily investment or protection.
And for all the cybersecurity IT listeners out there, is that ring true for you? Do you hear that all the time in your industry? Because we are definitely considered a cost center because we are expensive. There's so many similarities between food safety teams and cybersecurity and IT teams. It's ridiculous to me now.
Like we are all going through the same stuff, you know, in different ways, of course. But it's such a similar. So I'm so glad you said that, Rick, because I'm like, yeah, it should absolutely be. It's more of insurance, really, in my mind. That's how I see it. If it's not there, bad stuff's going to happen. And it's just part of business.
And I really wish we'd stop this whole like cost center versus profit, that kind of vibe in corporate because it creates those silos even more. And we need to cut through that crap inside of the food industry because it's not helping anybody. Ultimately, I think collaboration, as we've said throughout most of this episode, is really key to success and keeping food safe and people healthy.
So yeah, that's a good one. It's not a good one, but it's
And I think the other thing is going to be the supporting industry with investing in technology. The whole aspect of data, data analytics is already on a very rapid rise. And we're seeing more and more companies coming into this space that are vendors of technologics. Uh-huh.
And I think, again, that kind of relates back to then maybe potentially understanding food safety could be one of the pockets with the data to support it.
Yeah, actually, that's a fair shout out. I mean, what can you do with the data you get out of things? Could that be a profit thing? Or could it be something that could be used in other places in the business? I can use that as an example with a lot of the cybersecurity tech that's out there that's monitoring and doing all these things. We might be able to tell a
there's been a contamination detected on the line before any of the food safety equipment does because we're watching the sensors differently so we'll see a tampering in a different place or we'll be able to tell if somebody's corrupted on one side from unauthorized entry which the food safety technology wouldn't necessarily tell you that's why it's a combined forces moment this is why i tell people make sure you check each other's audits like it's important
I do think we'll see that potentially coming into play at some point, at least I hope, because it's such great data. And then if you feed it through any type of machine learning, AI, I know everybody just cringed, but it's true. You'll have a different outlook on it as well, because we can't think of everything. Neither can the AI, but we can't either. So it's just more data, the better, right?
As I always say, if you can have it, it's good. So that's actually a really fair shout out. And this is why I'm going to say what I say, and I constantly say it all the time, Rick. I love that we're bringing more tech into the industry, but when people say tech, I'm I want people to also think cybersecurity. The software may not be made securely necessarily.
And they may expect you to be the ones that are responsible for the security. Are you going to be responsible for security? Or are you just going to buy it and then throw it at your teams and expect them to secure it when they don't even understand what it is or what it does? There needs to be like more conversation there.
So I love that everybody wants to bring tech in, but please just partner with people that can do it because otherwise you're going to have a whole new attack factor that could just create all these awful scenarios that I will explain to you if you come and listen to my talk at the consortium. It's just, it's so bad. Like we are, we're, a good friend of mine says we're right at boom all the time.
We really are sometimes. Just right at boom. Thanks, Rick. I really appreciate this. This is awesome. And I really do hope that people think about coming over to see the consortium. It's actually going to be in Crest City, Virginia this year, right?
It's Crystal Gateway Marriott in Arlington, Virginia, October 19th through 22nd. We will be there again next year. Right about the same time as well. Join us this year. Please join us next year. We do have on foodsafetytech.com, there is a subscription link to our newsletter, which is free. All that information that we've been talking about is available in your inbox pretty much every week.
And then information about our conferences also.
I would encourage anyone who's listening, if you want to know more about the food industry, this is a great publication to read about because it does cover the gambit. It gives you enough information to kind of get you excited about things and want to do more research. It definitely started me down my path years and years ago, for sure. I still reference it, Rick, when I do talks.
So, well, I mean, where else am I going to find these resources that's actually talking about real problems and what's going on rather than the news? Like, I don't necessarily want the news. I want people to think about it and talk about it. And that's what I appreciate about what you do.
I appreciate that. Thank you. Yeah. I love that you make it very easy to just talk.
That's the idea. Thanks so much for being here.
My pleasure. Thank you again.
And that's a wrap, everyone. Huge thanks to our guest, Rick, for sharing his wisdom with us today. And of course, a big thank you to all of you for tuning in. The show notes will have all the links to our topics and information about the Food Safety Consortium. If you enjoyed this episode, don't forget to like, comment, and share it with your friends and colleagues.
Your support keeps me going and happy one year to us all. Stay safe, stay curious, and I'll see you on the next one. Bye for now.