Behind the Bastards
Part One: Dire Wolves, Dr. George Church & The De-Extinction Grift
Tue, 03 Jun 2025
Robert walks Langston Kerman through the story of Dr. George Church, a very real scientist who co founded the company making bullshit claims of "de extincting" dire wolves. (2 Part Series) Sources: George Church, Colossal W*nker – For Better Science Can Gene Therapy Slow Ageing in Dogs? - Gowing Life Never-ageing Anti-aging to cure COVID-19 – For Better Science The original sins of Leonard Guarente – For Better Science Jeffrey Epstein Hoped to Seed Human Race With His DNA - The New York Times Biologist George Church apologizes for contacts with Jeffreyticl Epstein Genetics Company Wants To Bring Iconic Tasmanian Tiger Back From Extinction - Newsweek Gene editing company hopes to bring dodo ‘back to life’ | Extinct wildlife | The Guardian Jeffrey Epstein-Funded Geneticist Is Building a Dating App That Only a Eugenicist Could Love George Church Explains How DNA Will Be Construction Material of the Future - DER SPIEGEL Geneticist George Church gets funding for lab-grown woolly mammoths Wooly Mammoth De-extinction Scientist Reveals Plan To Create 'Arctic Elephant' - Newsweek Bringing back dinosaurs or making new ones? – DW – 06/10/2015 ‘If you’re not failing, you’re probably not trying as hard as you could be’ — Harvard Gazette CRISPR gene editing on human embryos may be dangerous Here are some actual facts about George Church’s DNA dating company | MIT Technology Review Scientist on the Loose: George Church Strays Into Eugenics—Again | Center for Genetics and Society So...What do we think of Colossal Biosciences? : r/pleistocene The "de-extinction" of the woolly mammoth, a "Colossal" hoax? - Genomic chronicles | Medicine/Science Hiltzik: New frontiers in pseudoscientific baloney - Los Angeles Times Colossal Liar Wolves – For Better Science Meet The Disruptors: How Ben Lamm & Hypergiant Are Shaking Up the Space and AI Industries | by Jason Hartman | Authority Magazine | Medium Millionaire Ben Lamm Warns Against Entrepreneurship - Great Entrepreneurs The Serial Entrepreneur Turned Billionaire: Ben Lamm’s Tech and Science Revolution | Where Business News Meets Thought Leadership How 39-year-old Ben Lamm has started five companies Meet Ben Lamm: The World's First De-extinction Billionaire - Forbes India Oral history interview with George M. Church - Science History Institute Digital Collections Dr. George Church, Founding Father of Genomics | News | W.I. The Church Of George Church The World Has a Data Storage Problem. Is DNA the Answer? - proto.life DNA: The Future of Data Storage?. DNA, with its amazing storage… | by Nithil Krishnaraj | TechTalkers | Medium See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Chapter 1: What is the main topic of this episode?
Call zone media.
Oh, wow. Sophie, I don't know. I don't know if we can put that on the air. I mean, that's actionable threats against a sitting. Wow. I mean, just Sophie, that's it's just dangerous to be saying stuff like that in this day and age. I know. Let's distract the audience and the federal agents listening in by bringing on our guest today who definitely doesn't say stuff like that. Langston Kerman.
Langston, do you condemn Sophie's statements, assuming they ever get out in unedited form?
I was tempted to hang up the Zoom right away. I understand. It was so inflammatory that I said, I can't be a part of this.
Chapter 2: Who is Dr. George Church?
100%.
We got to get back to what we were, which was normal and peaceful.
Which was normal and good. Everyone knows things used to be good in this country for everybody, right? That's the thing we all know.
We were chilling for a long time. We were so cool.
Yeah. Yeah. Things were so great. And I think what will get us back to that is talking about puppies, right? Everybody loves a good puppy, right? I like puppies. Puppies are wonderful. And there's been some really cool new puppy news.
I am really nervous.
What is he talking about? Oh, God, we're going to talk about puppy mills. No, don't worry. This is a fun one, everybody. We're going to have a good time this week. Like, it is a guy I think is a piece of shit, but it's going to be fun.
I will say, before you even go, one of the only taboos that exists in film and television is murdering dogs. Yes. And I'm getting so scared before we even start. I know nothing.
No dogs are provably harmed yet in the making of this story, although I do have to specify yet. But there is like a dog-like creature involved because if you spend any time online, if you've been on social media or just been watching the news, I think probably close to 100% of our audience caught this.
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Chapter 3: What are the claims made by Colossal Biosciences?
But that speaks to his multitude. He's a busy man, right? He could either be a money man or he could be an academic man, but one of them introduced me.
And both of them are implicated in some sketchy Epstein stuff, to be clear.
We were all there with Jeffrey.
Yeah. But in another interview, Church seemed to suggest that Epstein probably reached out to him because Epstein was friendly and working with a biologist and mathematician named Martin Nowak. Church and Nowak had worked together on various applications of CRISPR to edit genes.
Per an article in Stat by Karen Begley, at the get-togethers with Nowak, Church said, Epstein seemed interested in the science of life's origins and mathematically modeling the evolution of viruses, cancer cells, and life itself. Epstein did not leave much of an impression on him, Church said. The meetings weren't really about Jeffrey.
They were about the scientists who were talking with each other. Normally, expectations are low for people who sit in on meetings far outside their field of expertise. So he's kind of like, well, it was mostly just a scientist talking. And Jeffrey didn't really know much. And when he talked, it didn't really make an impression as a result, right? Oh, man. And if that's...
The truth, which I have trouble believing because their relationship goes on after this. But, you know, if that's the truth, then all Church did was take this guy's money, who was not convicted of a crime yet, and show up at some dinners to talk about science. And that wouldn't be so bad, right?
And in fact, there are some people who got some funding from Epstein and were not involved in the sketchy stuff because he funded a lot of guys and they didn't all go to his parties or have sex with teenagers, right? And I'm not saying Church did.
He made enough money to buy an island. You can't do that with only sex pests. Some people had to be on some version of an up and up.
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