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Zach Schwartz

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Pablo Torre Finds Out

We Finally Found the Star of the Worst (and Most Mysterious) Commercial in Sports History

101.955

Meine Frau sagte, das war, als ich herausgefunden habe, dass du ein echter Sportverrückter bist, als du versucht hast, diesen Mann zu finden. Und wie obsesiv du mit ihm warst. Es war sehr früh in unserer Beziehung und ich musste ihn finden.

Pablo Torre Finds Out

We Finally Found the Star of the Worst (and Most Mysterious) Commercial in Sports History

1067.122

Anschutz has reportedly funded anti-gay ballot measures, anti-union, anti-weed, anti-science. I mean, there's a lot of things that he's... done over these years. And you're kind of like, okay, so the foundation for a better life is sort of just like the diet version of those messages, if you will. Like he's sort of like stripped off all the nasty parts that he's doing over on the side there.

Pablo Torre Finds Out

We Finally Found the Star of the Worst (and Most Mysterious) Commercial in Sports History

1195.704

I like that he had to go into his coat to take out the values that he wanted to specifically name. Brother, you can't just name loyalty, sportsmanship, honesty, respect off the top. You had to go to the note?

Pablo Torre Finds Out

We Finally Found the Star of the Worst (and Most Mysterious) Commercial in Sports History

1239.701

Yeah, it's billboards, radio ads, TV ads. The billboards were really mocking me and seeing them everywhere, seeing them on Santa Monica Boulevard near the 405. It sort of led me on my spiral where I felt like Gyllenhaal in Zodiac, where it's just like this thing is sort of taking over my life to a degree that it really shouldn't. Es gibt diesen wunderschönen Teil, den Shaq Teil hat.

Pablo Torre Finds Out

We Finally Found the Star of the Worst (and Most Mysterious) Commercial in Sports History

124.552

Es hat mich mitgebracht, das Ad. Ich erinnere mich daran, dass ich es im Wild gesehen habe, auf der TV, bevor es viral wurde. Es ging immer, vor allem während des Märchens.

Pablo Torre Finds Out

We Finally Found the Star of the Worst (and Most Mysterious) Commercial in Sports History

1262.976

Er spielt Basketball, trägt eine Kappe und eine Schuhe und es sieht so aus, als würde er Zivilität lieben. Ich meine, es heißt Perseveranz. Er spielt Basketball, als ob er seinen Doktorenabschluss in Basketball bekommen hätte, was er tatsächlich machte.

Pablo Torre Finds Out

We Finally Found the Star of the Worst (and Most Mysterious) Commercial in Sports History

1310.589

The reach for these campaigns is so impressive. And I reached out to a friend of mine that worked in advertising actually for Viacom for a long time. He did, you know, TV ad sales. The way he kind of broke it down for me is that like, you know, we talk about the Alex ad running during March Madness. Well, those spots for March Madness could be hundreds and hundreds of thousands of dollars.

Pablo Torre Finds Out

We Finally Found the Star of the Worst (and Most Mysterious) Commercial in Sports History

1332.878

And so he kind of gave me a wide range of what they could be. Like, you know, it's something like late at night could be in the tens of thousands of dollars to a March Madness spot that could be hundreds of thousands of dollars. So these spots are obviously very valuable. They're running all the time.

Pablo Torre Finds Out

We Finally Found the Star of the Worst (and Most Mysterious) Commercial in Sports History

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Because the foundation doesn't have some huge operating budget to go out and buy ad times, I was trying to figure out how they're getting these ads auf Billboards oder auf TV. Und die Art und Weise, wie es funktioniert, ist, wenn du als Netzwerk eine Ad-Inventar hast, kannst du das nehmen und es ihnen donatieren.

Pablo Torre Finds Out

We Finally Found the Star of the Worst (and Most Mysterious) Commercial in Sports History

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Und auf deinen Taxen schreiben und sagen, hey, das Inventar, das ich gegeben habe, war wert von einem Millionen Dollar, 100.000 Dollar, ein paar Millionen Dollar. somehow tax write-offs

Pablo Torre Finds Out

We Finally Found the Star of the Worst (and Most Mysterious) Commercial in Sports History

1405.667

And I think part of it that frustrated me was that while I understand the messages and it's important to teach people about perseverance or honesty or being truthful or whatever. We are a pro-perseverance podcast. Yes. For the record. It's important. And I'm not saying it isn't. But shouldn't that be going to a foundation that's trying to help people? Get people clean water.

Pablo Torre Finds Out

We Finally Found the Star of the Worst (and Most Mysterious) Commercial in Sports History

1429.224

There are just so many things out there that are bigger issues in my mind than, you know, hey, I'm really happy Shaq got his degree in perseverance. But I need more.

Pablo Torre Finds Out

We Finally Found the Star of the Worst (and Most Mysterious) Commercial in Sports History

1600.224

Alex. So I've got their tax returns in front of me and it's, there are production company names on some of these tax returns that they've filed. And my process was take the name on the tax return, put it into LinkedIn, take the name on the tax return, put it into Instagram.

Pablo Torre Finds Out

We Finally Found the Star of the Worst (and Most Mysterious) Commercial in Sports History

1618.643

And in doing that, I found two former employees and just DM both of them and was like, Hey guys, very odd question here, but I'm trying to find this person. Can you help me? And One of them got back to me and said, I'd love to help. I wasn't working on that ad campaign or I wasn't there at that time, but I know someone who can help. They've been there for forever. I'd love to connect to you.

Pablo Torre Finds Out

We Finally Found the Star of the Worst (and Most Mysterious) Commercial in Sports History

164.46

Ein Highschool-Gym in Amerika sieht so aus. Wir sehen das Scoreboard, um das Spiel zu starten. Es steht 63, 65, neun Sekunden noch. Oh Gott. Wir sehen das Team der weißen Schuhe auf einem schnellen Break, ohne Wettbewerb. Ein leichter Dumpf. Ja. Und hier kommt der Trap. Sie bringen einen frischen Trap, schnell.

Pablo Torre Finds Out

We Finally Found the Star of the Worst (and Most Mysterious) Commercial in Sports History

1641.547

Ich habe gesagt, gib mir deine E-Mail. Ich habe einen E-Mail-Thread mitgebracht und sie haben mich direkt zurückgebracht zu der ursprünglichen Sekretärin. An diesem Punkt war ich ein bisschen überrascht, weil ich dachte, die Sekretärin denkt definitiv, dass ich ein Verrückter bin. Es ging also sehr viel zurück zu Square One. Ein großer Verrückter.

Pablo Torre Finds Out

We Finally Found the Star of the Worst (and Most Mysterious) Commercial in Sports History

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Ich dachte wirklich, dass ich in die richtige Richtung gehen würde. An diesem bestimmten Moment dachte ich, ich muss auf Twitter gehen und sie für Hilfe bitten, weil... I need some sort of closure on this. And part of me not wanting to tweet it was because I was worried someone else would beat me to the story.

Pablo Torre Finds Out

We Finally Found the Star of the Worst (and Most Mysterious) Commercial in Sports History

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So I put out there, okay, this is an odd request, but can anyone on here help me find this actor from the famous sportsmanship basketball ad? And 29 minutes later, a motion graphic designer for the Las Vegas Golden Knights replied and said, might be former player, now current assistant coach at the University of Denver, named BJ Porter. Meine Hände schluchzten, als ich ihn bekommen habe.

Pablo Torre Finds Out

We Finally Found the Star of the Worst (and Most Mysterious) Commercial in Sports History

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Ich dachte, das könnte er sein. Dann klicke ich auf sein Twitter. Und er folgte mir bereits. Er hat mich die ganze Zeit gefolgt.

Pablo Torre Finds Out

We Finally Found the Star of the Worst (and Most Mysterious) Commercial in Sports History

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Ich war so froh, dass ich ihn endlich treffen konnte. Die Niveaus sind alle gut. Alles klar. Er ist jetzt 35, er hat ein bisschen Schmerz. Du kannst ihn nicht unbedingt als Alex kennenlernen, aber er hat einen großen, starken Lächeln. Er ist wirklich einer der schönsten Leute, die du jemals treffen wirst.

Pablo Torre Finds Out

We Finally Found the Star of the Worst (and Most Mysterious) Commercial in Sports History

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Wait, what? This is now a little creepy, Zach. Did he know you? Had you ever actually met him before in real life? We hadn't met, but we had been in the same room a couple of times. So he played basketball at Portland with my friend Luke Sikma. This is of the basketball playing Sikmas. Yes, Jack Sikmas son. Amazing.

Pablo Torre Finds Out

We Finally Found the Star of the Worst (and Most Mysterious) Commercial in Sports History

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So when Portland would come to LA and play Pepperdine or LMU in their set schedule, my whole family would go to the game. So I was in the stands, BJ was on this team and I had no idea.

Pablo Torre Finds Out

We Finally Found the Star of the Worst (and Most Mysterious) Commercial in Sports History

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Der Ball geht zur Seite, was nicht wirklich der Fall ist, um ihn in dieser Situation zu schießen. Nein. Wir sehen einen Spieler, der weiß, den Ball aus der Bühne tippt. Das Wichtigste ist, dass der Trainer den Ball nicht vom Jungen in der weißen Schuhe gesehen hat. Ich habe den perfekten Ausgangspunkt für das hier. Ich werde hier kochen. Sie gehen alle in den Hüttel, um zu spielen.

Pablo Torre Finds Out

We Finally Found the Star of the Worst (and Most Mysterious) Commercial in Sports History

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Die Erinnerung ist ein bisschen feucht. Das war, bevor ich nach Arizona State ging, was, Gott weiß, ein bisschen zu meinem Gehirn verletzt hat.

Pablo Torre Finds Out

We Finally Found the Star of the Worst (and Most Mysterious) Commercial in Sports History

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You know, he talked a bit about kind of having to prioritize hoops over acting, but he has some serious acting credits to his name as a kid.

Pablo Torre Finds Out

We Finally Found the Star of the Worst (and Most Mysterious) Commercial in Sports History

1948.38

Es gab einen Teil von Touched by an Angel mit Scott Baio.

Pablo Torre Finds Out

We Finally Found the Star of the Worst (and Most Mysterious) Commercial in Sports History

1996.207

So he's got those roles. He's a senior in high school and it's pre-basketball season, which is sort of important for eligibility and this is pre-NIL. So you obviously can't be paid once you're in your senior season of the sport, you're going to go play in college.

Pablo Torre Finds Out

We Finally Found the Star of the Worst (and Most Mysterious) Commercial in Sports History

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Es war dieses wilde Familienverhältnis, wo B.J. Alex wird. B.J. 's Cousin ist der Teammate, der ihn schultert. Wie geht's, Alex? All the players in the huddle basically that had speaking roles are BJ's teammates from high school basketball. It's like the guy that's like, it's a championship game, like teammate.

Pablo Torre Finds Out

We Finally Found the Star of the Worst (and Most Mysterious) Commercial in Sports History

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Der Spieler, der wir denken, den Ball ausgetippt hat, aber sie haben ihn nicht angerufen, hat einen sehr schuldigen Ausblick auf sich.

Pablo Torre Finds Out

We Finally Found the Star of the Worst (and Most Mysterious) Commercial in Sports History

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Und ironisch gesagt, hat sein Vater diese unique Rolle in dem ganzen Film, wo die originale Skripte wahrscheinlich noch schlechter war als das.

Pablo Torre Finds Out

We Finally Found the Star of the Worst (and Most Mysterious) Commercial in Sports History

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Und sein Vater musste zu den Produzenten gehen und sagen, das ist, wie ich versuchen würde, diesen Schmuck zu lösen, den ihr mitgebracht habt.

Pablo Torre Finds Out

We Finally Found the Star of the Worst (and Most Mysterious) Commercial in Sports History

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Es ist mein Lieblingsmoment von ihm, wo er sagt, das Beste ist, dass ich den Ball nicht getroffen habe. Ich habe den Ball nicht getroffen. Du hast den Ball nicht getroffen. Das ganze Ding ist eine Lüge. Let that be a lesson about the magic of Hollywood. This is all a lie. There were multiple takes. The take they ended up using, he didn't even touch the ball.

Pablo Torre Finds Out

We Finally Found the Star of the Worst (and Most Mysterious) Commercial in Sports History

2167.898

It's funny because if you read the YouTube comments, there are people that actually point this out saying he didn't even touch the ball. Yes, he admits he did not touch the ball.

Pablo Torre Finds Out

We Finally Found the Star of the Worst (and Most Mysterious) Commercial in Sports History

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In the Foundation for a Better Life Cinematic Universe. It's pretty perfect.

Pablo Torre Finds Out

We Finally Found the Star of the Worst (and Most Mysterious) Commercial in Sports History

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Es dauerte ungefähr ein Jahr und ein halbes Jahr. Er hat seine Fußball- und Basketball-Saison durchgeführt. Er geht nach Portland. Das erste Mal, als B.J. die Anzeige gesehen hat, war er mit seinen Teamkollegen auf der USA-Network. Wie die meisten College-Athleten versuchen, die Zeit zu verpassen. Und da ist er.

Pablo Torre Finds Out

We Finally Found the Star of the Worst (and Most Mysterious) Commercial in Sports History

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No, no. And like, it would be so cool to get to be in an ad in college and be like, guys, that's me. But then it's like... Der Kurs dieser Ad ist so schwer für ihn. Das kann ich mir nicht vorstellen.

Pablo Torre Finds Out

We Finally Found the Star of the Worst (and Most Mysterious) Commercial in Sports History

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I think he probably got his first inkling of it, Portland goes to play at Gonzaga.

Pablo Torre Finds Out

We Finally Found the Star of the Worst (and Most Mysterious) Commercial in Sports History

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A kid with acne is as mad at Alex as a person can be. That's that Accutane rage.

Pablo Torre Finds Out

We Finally Found the Star of the Worst (and Most Mysterious) Commercial in Sports History

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Ich habe schon erwähnt, dass ich mich selbst für Basketball interessiere. Es gibt viele in der Kennel bei den Gonzaga-Spielen. In der besten Art und Weise. Es gibt sehr starke Basketball-Fans. Und einer der Jungs in den Ständen schreit, du siehst aus wie die Sportmannschaft.

Pablo Torre Finds Out

We Finally Found the Star of the Worst (and Most Mysterious) Commercial in Sports History

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Und wenn du über Gonzaga weißt, wenn du dort gehst, besonders während dieser Zeit, ist es so, als hätte es die Zombie-Nation, bevor du spielst.

Pablo Torre Finds Out

We Finally Found the Star of the Worst (and Most Mysterious) Commercial in Sports History

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So he ended up transferring to Weber State. He gets there around 2010. Yes, the home of Damian Lillard. And they were teammates. They were teammates at Weber together. And this is sort of where it starts to... Twitter introduced this video. And that's kind of where the problems start to arise for our good friend BJ here.

Pablo Torre Finds Out

We Finally Found the Star of the Worst (and Most Mysterious) Commercial in Sports History

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Ja, sie schluchzten in den Kommentaren auf dem Video. Und es ist so, Alex, der Junge, der den Lehrer erinnert, über die Arbeit, die er vergessen hat, zu geben. Ja. Wenn das wahr war, wäre er für die Saison auf der Bühne. Das ist, warum Bullying existiert.

Pablo Torre Finds Out

We Finally Found the Star of the Worst (and Most Mysterious) Commercial in Sports History

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know this ad, but the people that are the greatest basketball players playing right now also know this ad. That's how engrossed in the basketball culture it is.

Pablo Torre Finds Out

We Finally Found the Star of the Worst (and Most Mysterious) Commercial in Sports History

2583.558

And I think that's the part that's like, that's what's funny with all this, is these people like, I'd give Alex buckets. I'd cook Alex. And BJ's sitting there like... What would you say to any of those people? Please come try. He was a very good shooter, very good player. You know, plays at Azusa Pacific after his time with Dame at Weber.

Pablo Torre Finds Out

We Finally Found the Star of the Worst (and Most Mysterious) Commercial in Sports History

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And even while there, you know, the coach in film would put his picture up on the projector and say, you know, nice going Alex and things like that. The ad hung with him. He told me a story when we sat down that he gets engaged and he's at Disneyland and at some point they were at ESPN Zone with his family and they look up and there's the ad all these years later playing on the TV at ESPN Zone.

Pablo Torre Finds Out

We Finally Found the Star of the Worst (and Most Mysterious) Commercial in Sports History

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And we see Alex crawl over to the raft to snitch on himself. And the commercial ends with a sportsmanship pass it on message.

Pablo Torre Finds Out

We Finally Found the Star of the Worst (and Most Mysterious) Commercial in Sports History

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Even that day, the ride operator sneaks up to him and whispers, hey, I touched it.

Pablo Torre Finds Out

We Finally Found the Star of the Worst (and Most Mysterious) Commercial in Sports History

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Seine Kinder haben das Ad gesehen. Der Freund, den ich kenne, ist ihr Großvater. Er ist eigentlich ein Trainer in der Schule. Er hat ihnen das Ad gezeigt, hat seinen Sohn rausgenommen und gesagt, hey, du musst sehen, was dein Vater gemacht hat. Let me show you this thing. Your dad was a star and played it for him.

Pablo Torre Finds Out

We Finally Found the Star of the Worst (and Most Mysterious) Commercial in Sports History

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Er hat seine Accounts auf allen sozialen Medien deaktiviert an einem Punkt, weil er ins Trainieren ging. Das ist so eine nötige Werkstatt für das Rekrutieren, dass sein Trainer in Denver sagte, hey, du musst deine sozialen Accounts reaktivieren, um Kinder zu erreichen. Richtig. Also wurde er wieder in diesen Ort gezwungen, wo es ständig gebracht wird.

Pablo Torre Finds Out

We Finally Found the Star of the Worst (and Most Mysterious) Commercial in Sports History

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Er hat mit einem Lächeln gesagt zu mir, danke für deine Ehrlichkeit.

Pablo Torre Finds Out

We Finally Found the Star of the Worst (and Most Mysterious) Commercial in Sports History

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Es ist so ein perfekter Abschluss auf den ganzen Ad und seinen Ausblick auf das Leben im Allgemeinen. Ja. Ich habe ihn gefragt, hey, wenn du gegen Alex gehst, was wäre der Scouting-Report? Ja, was ist Alex' Scouting-Report?

Pablo Torre Finds Out

We Finally Found the Star of the Worst (and Most Mysterious) Commercial in Sports History

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Ich meine, sein ganzer Ausblick darauf, sogar ihn zu fragen, würdest du es regretieren, wenn du in der Zeit zurückgehen könntest, würdest du die Ad noch machen?

Pablo Torre Finds Out

We Finally Found the Star of the Worst (and Most Mysterious) Commercial in Sports History

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Das ist großartig. Das ist das, was ich sagen würde. Es war sehr speziell, dass ich ihn an der Table sitzen und den Mikrofon lehnen und sagen kann, ich bin Alex.

Pablo Torre Finds Out

We Finally Found the Star of the Worst (and Most Mysterious) Commercial in Sports History

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Totally. He's a very profound and awesome dude. I was very glad to have gotten to know him and find him.

Pablo Torre Finds Out

We Finally Found the Star of the Worst (and Most Mysterious) Commercial in Sports History

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And like there are so many other ways to do this ad that would be plausible. Like someone sets a really hard ball screen and you run over and help the guy out. That's sportsmanship. But no one's snitching at this level. Ich meine, wenn etwas passiert, ist der Spieler zu dem anderen Mann zugegangen und gesagt, ich habe das total dem Gegner geholfen. Du sagst dem Ref nicht das.

Pablo Torre Finds Out

We Finally Found the Star of the Worst (and Most Mysterious) Commercial in Sports History

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So I used to host this podcast for Wave called Out of Pocket. And it was Josiah Johnson and LeJethryn Jenkins, two guys who are very good at NBA Twitter. And the whole sort of center of all this is NBA Twitter. Anyone that's spent any time on NBA Twitter knows this ad. It basically goes viral every six months. Also, wir haben unser Show gemacht. Wavy hat Paul George mitgebracht.

Pablo Torre Finds Out

We Finally Found the Star of the Worst (and Most Mysterious) Commercial in Sports History

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Paul Georges Show macht uns aus dem Wasser. Und ich dachte mir, ich muss einen Gast für unser Show finden, den Paul George niemals für ihn bekommen würde. Ich dachte mir, was ist das viralste Basketball-Ding, bei dem Leute sagen würden, oh mein Gott, du hast diesen Mann gefunden.

Pablo Torre Finds Out

We Finally Found the Star of the Worst (and Most Mysterious) Commercial in Sports History

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Das ist, wo die Reise angefangen hat. Ich dachte, ich werde es für unsere Saison-Finale-Episode machen. Ich glaube, ich hatte drei Wochen, um ihn zu finden. Das ist so viel Zeit. Es hat viel länger gedauert als drei Wochen. Es hat, glaube ich, zwei und eine halbe Jahre gedauert, um ihn zu finden.

Pablo Torre Finds Out

We Finally Found the Star of the Worst (and Most Mysterious) Commercial in Sports History

501.185

So first it was reverse image searching his face and seeing if I could find anything off of that. So I was like, hey, maybe the reason no one's done this video or found him is because they weren't using the modern tools that we have today. Didn't work. So then, for those that don't know, IMDb is a database where you can look up actors for movies.

Pablo Torre Finds Out

We Finally Found the Star of the Worst (and Most Mysterious) Commercial in Sports History

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They have something similar for actors in commercials. So I was like, okay, I'll use that. Nothing. Couldn't find anything there. I started reaching out to friends of mine that directed commercials in LA. Like, hey, is there a database or a casting director you could put me in touch with? And they kind of were like, from an ad that long ago, no one I know would work on it.

Pablo Torre Finds Out

We Finally Found the Star of the Worst (and Most Mysterious) Commercial in Sports History

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And so, okay, let's see if the charity can help.

Pablo Torre Finds Out

We Finally Found the Star of the Worst (and Most Mysterious) Commercial in Sports History

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There's just not enough information out there about the foundation. There's no interviews or articles. And it kind of triggered this sort of siren in my head, like something weird is happening here because no one talks. No one's ever written a profile about the foundation or what they do. The website, for the most part, looks like it was designed in 2011 and just left.

Pablo Torre Finds Out

We Finally Found the Star of the Worst (and Most Mysterious) Commercial in Sports History

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And so, you know, I called them It's one of those calls where you put on like the nicest voice. Hi, my name is Zach and I have an obsession with this really famous ad that you guys made from a long, long time ago.

Pablo Torre Finds Out

We Finally Found the Star of the Worst (and Most Mysterious) Commercial in Sports History

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And I was like, can you please just help me Locate the actor. The secretary was very kind. I would love to help you. What a neat project. Unfortunately, I can't release any names. You basically have to write the CEO and get his consent and he'll release the information to you. So then I emailed the CEO and he was really dismissive. I read his message.

Pablo Torre Finds Out

We Finally Found the Star of the Worst (and Most Mysterious) Commercial in Sports History

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He was very like, I'm not releasing the name to you. Sorry, go away. Und das machte mich mehr traurig. Oh, ja. Dann dachte ich mir, was ist diese Grundlage? Warum bist du so secretiv? Warum versuchst du zu verstecken, wer diese Person ist? Also habe ich das nächste logische Ding gemacht und 13 Jahre von ihren Kreditkarten ausgewählt.

Pablo Torre Finds Out

We Finally Found the Star of the Worst (and Most Mysterious) Commercial in Sports History

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Das ist ein guter Satz. Das ist ein sehr guter Satz. Ich habe mich gerade erst mal als Journalist genannt, weil ich ein paar Sachen produzierte und dann habe ich Social Media gemacht und Meme für Leute für eine lange Zeit gemacht.

Pablo Torre Finds Out

We Finally Found the Star of the Worst (and Most Mysterious) Commercial in Sports History

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He is a billionaire. And he's been a billionaire for a very long time.

Pablo Torre Finds Out

We Finally Found the Star of the Worst (and Most Mysterious) Commercial in Sports History

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Fortune also called him the greediest executive. He started running his dad's oil business at the age of 20, made his money drilling, fracking, also ran Union Pacific Railroad.

Pablo Torre Finds Out

We Finally Found the Star of the Worst (and Most Mysterious) Commercial in Sports History

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And then, you know, things that maybe are more in our lives than oil and railroads is that he owns AEG, Anschluss Entertainment Group, who does Coachella. They own Crypto.com Arena. Und er hat auch ein paar verschiedene Sportteams gegründet. L.A. Kings, L.A. Galaxy. Und dann hat er Filme finanziert. Chronicles of Narnia. Er hat den Film Ray gemacht.

Pablo Torre Finds Out

We Finally Found the Star of the Worst (and Most Mysterious) Commercial in Sports History

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Er ist überall, aber man hat keine Ahnung, dass er da ist, weil er wirklich einer der größten Behind-the-Scenes-Billionäre je war.

Pablo Torre Finds Out

We Finally Found the Star of the Worst (and Most Mysterious) Commercial in Sports History

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Ich fand es sehr interessant, dass diese Person, die Coachella hat, die ist so unheimlich, dass du legal gehen kannst, auch diese sehr konservative, göttliche, kirchliche Botschaften drückt. So that was very interesting, kind of as I dove deeper and deeper and found out about the different groups that he was kind of financing and funding and some of the initiatives that they were behind.