William von Hippel
Appearances
Modern Wisdom
#905 - William von Hippel - Why Modern Life Can Feel So Empty
If I were wealthy, I would be happier because I would appreciate what I have. I even remember visiting an old friend and just marveling at his inability to appreciate this extraordinary wealth that he'd accumulated since we were kids. But it wasn't until I was reading Frank Marlowe's wonderful book on the Hadza that I realized, you know, I'm just as bad as he is. We all are.
Modern Wisdom
#905 - William von Hippel - Why Modern Life Can Feel So Empty
And there's all of those But nine times out of 10, you know, every once in a while, I know something that I just don't want you to know. And we can talk all about privacy because that's where privacy gets all caught up into it. But setting that aside, and also every once in a while, I know some really cool information that I can leverage if you don't know it. And so I want to keep that to myself.
Modern Wisdom
#905 - William von Hippel - Why Modern Life Can Feel So Empty
Those two things definitely happen. But... It's also the case that most of the things I know aren't necessarily valuable to me, but could be very valuable to you. So if we take a look at one of the most cited papers in the social sciences, it's called The Strength of Weak Ties.
Modern Wisdom
#905 - William von Hippel - Why Modern Life Can Feel So Empty
And in that paper, the author argues that it's not your close friends who are really valuable to you in making career moves and things like that. It's your distant friends. And the reason for that is your close friends are highly motivated to help you, but you know what they know. Your distant friends are barely motivated to help you, but you don't know what they know.
Modern Wisdom
#905 - William von Hippel - Why Modern Life Can Feel So Empty
And so the moment they run across a job that's in your wheelhouse, it's not theirs. They don't want it, but they know of its existence. If you ask them, oh, hey, anybody hiring at your firm? They go, oh, yeah, actually, we're looking for a new engineer to work on the wing. And you're like, I'm a wing engineer. I'd love to do that, right? So he argued this. They tested it on LinkedIn.
Modern Wisdom
#905 - William von Hippel - Why Modern Life Can Feel So Empty
And sure enough, it's true that the people who are your more distant ties, they manipulate the algorithm as an experimental test across millions of people. And your more distant ties were more likely to help you find a job than your close ties were. Now, humans, well, there's one of the species that can kind of do this. Dolphins can do this.
Modern Wisdom
#905 - William von Hippel - Why Modern Life Can Feel So Empty
Males form these coalitions across very broad networks where they cooperate with each other in interesting kinds of ways in their mating competitions. But so far as we know, no other animal can come close to what humans can do by forming these kind of coalitions across distant ties where we can transmit information that's so valuable.
Modern Wisdom
#905 - William von Hippel - Why Modern Life Can Feel So Empty
So hunter-gatherers manage this in interesting ways. First of all, they... hunter-gatherers have very tight group boundaries. And so if you're one of us or you're not. Now, that's an ethnic linguistic kind of decision. People in our ancestral world never met somebody who was a different color because, of course, those gradients were long across latitudes. But
Modern Wisdom
#905 - William von Hippel - Why Modern Life Can Feel So Empty
They would meet somebody who dresses or marks themselves differently. They would meet somebody who has a different accent. And those meetings were always fraught with danger. Sometimes they're an opportunity. It doesn't mean things are going to go badly. Like maybe my group meets yours and some of the people switch groups or find partners in the other group so we can avoid inbreeding, etc.
Modern Wisdom
#905 - William von Hippel - Why Modern Life Can Feel So Empty
But it was risky business. It's inside the group where everybody knows everybody or at least knows them by relationship. And so, for example, in Papua New Guinea, if two strangers run into each other, they stop at a safe distance. This is in the North Highlands, traditionally, where it's really risky, very violent culture. They stop at a safe distance and they say, hi, I'm Bill, son of Art.
Modern Wisdom
#905 - William von Hippel - Why Modern Life Can Feel So Empty
And you say, oh, I'm Chris, son of Bob. And I go, hmm, don't know Bob. All right, my cousin is Joe Schmo. And you say, oh. Joe's my sister's niece's brother. Oh, we're good. And so we just have to look for a way that things are going to be okay, right? We have to look for a way that we can connect so that it's not a risk.
Modern Wisdom
#905 - William von Hippel - Why Modern Life Can Feel So Empty
But so long as it's not, so long as we're okay, then we're happy to share information. We're happy to do all those kinds of things, so long as we're not giving away things that are critically important for us.
Modern Wisdom
#905 - William von Hippel - Why Modern Life Can Feel So Empty
We don't appreciate these amazing riches that we have. And if you think about them, you might say, well, what does it really matter that we have riches? you know, a fancier chair or something like that. But it's not just the trivial comforts. They, hunter-gatherers, buried almost half their children. You know, they lived in a world that was dangerous and uncomfortable and unpredictable.
Modern Wisdom
#905 - William von Hippel - Why Modern Life Can Feel So Empty
Hunter-gatherers create their own kind of informal laws. And so they police each other, they monitor each other, but there's no formal network of protection. And so if you decide to pummel me, and I can't stop you, either physically or physically, maybe your coalition is stronger than mine. Well, pummeled I will be, right? And so we have to find a way to navigate our social networks.
Modern Wisdom
#905 - William von Hippel - Why Modern Life Can Feel So Empty
It's a little bit like the grade school was when I was a kid in the 60s and early 70s, where teachers let you resolve your differences, your bloody nose will dry up in the cold weather and things are going to be fine. And so you have to resolve your own differences. And what that means is that I'm a little guy. How am I going to navigate this world where everyone can pummel me?
Modern Wisdom
#905 - William von Hippel - Why Modern Life Can Feel So Empty
Well, I've got to have good friends. I've got to have a lot of people who see my value. And then even though you're twice my size, when you run into me, you're not going to even consider pummeling me because you go, if I pummel Bill, all sorts of other people who matter and who matter to him are going to be angry at me. And so I'll treat him with kindness because that's in my best interest.
Modern Wisdom
#905 - William von Hippel - Why Modern Life Can Feel So Empty
And so not only did people were kind to each other because they like each other, but they're kind to each other because they're members of coalitions that demanded it.
Modern Wisdom
#905 - William von Hippel - Why Modern Life Can Feel So Empty
Yeah, no, that's exactly right. And so we formed super tight connections because we had to. And so remember earlier, I talked about how we've lost the balance of our ancestors. Well, they lived in a world where connection was everything. And so if I'm going to go off in the Savannah, I want to go with you because there's two of us and now we can defend ourselves much more easily.
Modern Wisdom
#905 - William von Hippel - Why Modern Life Can Feel So Empty
And we live in this world that's comfortable and safe and... And as an endless opportunities for entertainment, and yet we're not any happier than they were. And if you look at the literature, there's all sorts of bits and bobs of advice, you know, express, express gratitude, do these things. And those are all pretty good pieces of advice.
Modern Wisdom
#905 - William von Hippel - Why Modern Life Can Feel So Empty
I want to be with my group. And there's all sorts of rules that demand that I share with my group, that I do things that help us protect each other. The clearest example is that even though humans form societies that are all sorts of, the rainbow of colors of ways of doing things, there's a couple of rules that never change.
Modern Wisdom
#905 - William von Hippel - Why Modern Life Can Feel So Empty
And one of those rules is that in immediate return hunter-gatherer societies, where you eat today what you kill today, so that's why we call them immediate return, You always have to share the proceeds of the hunt. And so if women go out, they typically did the gathering. If they gathered up lots of food, they don't have to share that outside their household if they don't want to.
Modern Wisdom
#905 - William von Hippel - Why Modern Life Can Feel So Empty
They would typically share it with the people they're gathering. But men have to share the proceeds of the hunt across everybody. So there's a lot of rules that we simply can't violate. And I could decide to. If I'm the biggest guy, I'm like, okay, I'm eating all this elk. You guys can all piss off. Well, tomorrow morning when I wake up, I'm sitting there by myself. You guys have pissed off.
Modern Wisdom
#905 - William von Hippel - Why Modern Life Can Feel So Empty
And now I'm in deep doo-doo because I might have been the biggest guy in a group, but I still am not a force that I can contend with nature on my own. And so everybody's compelled to keep the group interest in mind, to do what the group wants you to do and feel these really, really tight connections to stay safe.
Modern Wisdom
#905 - William von Hippel - Why Modern Life Can Feel So Empty
Bizarrely, I can't make heads or tails out of this one. And I've never met anyone who knows the answer. Women always do the cooking. So I don't know why that is. People have conjectured, well, maybe it's the process of giving her the meat from the hunt is a form of connection, but I can't It's possible. I've never heard a compelling answer.
Modern Wisdom
#905 - William von Hippel - Why Modern Life Can Feel So Empty
Sharing the proceeds of the hunt makes good sense because most hunts fail. So you want an insurance policy where everybody gets to eat at least something. But why should she always cook? I have no idea.
Modern Wisdom
#905 - William von Hippel - Why Modern Life Can Feel So Empty
And women are more connected. You know, men are more autonomy-ish machines and women are more connected machines. Both need both. And maybe that connection compels you as part of the process while you're preparing for, I don't know. I have no idea. I'm only, yeah, I like your time sage explanation though. We'll go with that one.
Modern Wisdom
#905 - William von Hippel - Why Modern Life Can Feel So Empty
Well, that's a funny one. So, you know, hunter-gatherers essentially own nothing, not nothing, but very little, for a host of reasons. A, it's hard to make things when you're a hunter-gatherer because you don't have the modern equipment.
Modern Wisdom
#905 - William von Hippel - Why Modern Life Can Feel So Empty
B, you've got to carry it with you everywhere you go, so you can't exactly own that winter coat that you might want to use two days out of the year because you're schlepping at the other 363. And then the final reason for that is, remember I mentioned this mandatory sharing of meat. Well, there's mandatory sharing of anything if you own more than one or two of them.
Modern Wisdom
#905 - William von Hippel - Why Modern Life Can Feel So Empty
They help in the moment, but it doesn't answer the question of how can we possibly not be happier than they are? And that's what got me started in about 10 years ago. And it took me that forever to figure out what I think might be an important part of the answer.
Modern Wisdom
#905 - William von Hippel - Why Modern Life Can Feel So Empty
Because this is society where everybody has to work together. And so what that means, it creates this really remarkable lifestyle where this rule about meat sort of gets spread across to everything. And so if I own two or three shirts, you could say, you know, Bill, I really like your shirt. And the right answer is, oh. Okay, you know, here you go, mate.
Modern Wisdom
#905 - William von Hippel - Why Modern Life Can Feel So Empty
And so the thing is that you end up with this society that's wonderfully equal in the sense that everybody shares everything with each other. And so that looks really nice. It looks kind of utopian. But the downside of it is I don't actually have the right to keep my own stuff. And so I remember this anecdote where this old guy in Hadza, I think he was, had been given a sweatshirt from a tourist.
Modern Wisdom
#905 - William von Hippel - Why Modern Life Can Feel So Empty
And he's talking to the anthropologist who visits the group and he says... I'm meant to share this. I know I shouldn't keep it for myself, but I'm tired of sharing everything I own with everybody, and I just want to keep it. I want to be comfortable. And you kind of can't blame the guy, right? You know, he's probably feeling old and cold sometimes, and he just wants to keep it.
Modern Wisdom
#905 - William von Hippel - Why Modern Life Can Feel So Empty
We see this in a lot of different domains. I remember I worked up on this remote island once. northern Australia with the Anandiliakwa people. And I joined them for a couple of days while we're doing what's called ghost netting. These nets get break loose from fishing boats and kill lots and lots of fish.
Modern Wisdom
#905 - William von Hippel - Why Modern Life Can Feel So Empty
And so people around the world gather them up, catalog what they are, and then we can see where they're getting accidentally released and what might be done to help the problem. And it's crazy hard work because these nets get caught up in everything. And so you're dragging this like rubbish out of the sea. Anyway, these guys were doing an amazing job.
Modern Wisdom
#905 - William von Hippel - Why Modern Life Can Feel So Empty
And I was talking to their manager afterward and he goes, yes, so they do an amazing work. I mean, they're crazy hardworking in the hot sun. And so I tried to give them a raise and they were like, no, thanks. And he's like, no, thanks. And they're like, when I come home, everybody takes all my money that I earn. And so I don't benefit from that at all.
Modern Wisdom
#905 - William von Hippel - Why Modern Life Can Feel So Empty
It's just kind of frustrating that now I'm losing more money. And he says, oh, well, how about if I bought you a really nice breakfast when you arrive in the morning? And they're like, oh, I'd love a really nice breakfast. And so, you know, they're just as materialistic as we are. All humans are materialistic.
Modern Wisdom
#905 - William von Hippel - Why Modern Life Can Feel So Empty
And in fact, anthropologists say that when they arrive, they're constantly saying, well, look, you've got two of those. I'd like to have one of them. I actually need these, right? And so... They look like they're not materialistic, but they're just the same as we are in that regard. They just don't judge others by the material goods.
Modern Wisdom
#905 - William von Hippel - Why Modern Life Can Feel So Empty
So if I see you in the street and you're in a flash car, I'm like, wow, that Chris Williamson's really cool. He's more successful than I am. They don't do that because they'd say, hey, can I have your car? And you've got no choice but to give it to them, right?
Modern Wisdom
#905 - William von Hippel - Why Modern Life Can Feel So Empty
He's buried juice all over his face. Yes, that's exactly right. That happens all the time. And the classic example is honey. They'll find honey up in the tree. It's pretty dicey business getting it, but they love it because here we have access to sugar as much as we want, but nothing in our ancestral world is as sweet and delicious as honey is.
Modern Wisdom
#905 - William von Hippel - Why Modern Life Can Feel So Empty
And so it's way up on the want list and you just don't bring it home. You come home covered in honey, and you're just a little tiny piece. But everybody knows that about each other, right? And so you say to me, oh, Bill, I think I'm going to wander off today. And I'm thinking, Chris is after honey. And I'm like, hey, mate, I'm with you.
Modern Wisdom
#905 - William von Hippel - Why Modern Life Can Feel So Empty
Because at least now you and I are going to score it together, right? And there's even some interesting animals that help us find honey together. Because then we make a little bit of mess and then they get some too. And so there's this interesting cross-species cooperation. And I see one of those birds near you and I say, yeah, I'm hanging with Chris today because I think he's got plans.
Modern Wisdom
#905 - William von Hippel - Why Modern Life Can Feel So Empty
Because they know full well that, you know, they eat today what they catch today, but they're going to eat right then and there what they get when it's really, really good. What was that story about eggshell beads? Oh, so yeah, eggshell beads are a great example. So this comes to a tradition that's quite related to what we've been talking about before.
Modern Wisdom
#905 - William von Hippel - Why Modern Life Can Feel So Empty
And it's among the Kung San in the Kalahari Desert. And so they have this tradition, which I don't even know how to pronounce, Hutsaro or something like that. I'm not quite sure how it's said. But what that tradition is, is that they've got a set group of a network that sometimes they're kin, but by and large, they're friends. And that network is required to share with each other.
Modern Wisdom
#905 - William von Hippel - Why Modern Life Can Feel So Empty
And they maintain the network with regular gifts. And so if you're in my network and I know your camp is somewhere over there, sometimes it's hard to find each other because we all wander around. But eventually I find you. And when I know where you're going to be, I'll try to put together a collection of gifts for you so that I can reconnect with you. And you'll do the same for me.
Modern Wisdom
#905 - William von Hippel - Why Modern Life Can Feel So Empty
And one of the most common gifts that you would give is these beads that are made out of ostrich eggshells. And so... they're pretty and they travel well. They're kind of like our equivalent of money. They're easy to put in your pocket, so to speak, and they're really nice. So the interesting thing about these networks is that you're actually mandated to help me if I run out of steam.
Modern Wisdom
#905 - William von Hippel - Why Modern Life Can Feel So Empty
And so let's say that there's a drought in my section of the desert, which there is commonly, I can go to you and say, Chris, I'm really hungry. And you're like, Oh, well, here. OK, have my pizza because you've got no choice. But I've got no choice, too. We're going to look out for each other no matter what, if we're part of that network.
Modern Wisdom
#905 - William von Hippel - Why Modern Life Can Feel So Empty
And one of the interesting things about those networks is that they can be super broad. And in fact, they almost always are. There's almost always one or two people in your network who live at least 100 kilometers away from you. And you think, why would you do that? That's a lot of schlepping to give you some ostrich beads, shake hands, say, I hope you're well, brother, and then move on.
Modern Wisdom
#905 - William von Hippel - Why Modern Life Can Feel So Empty
And the reason for that, of course, or what we believe the reason for that is that, you know, things could go very pear-shaped in my region of the world. The farther away you are, the better chances are that your part of the world is still okay. And so we don't maintain very many connections that far away, but they do.
Modern Wisdom
#905 - William von Hippel - Why Modern Life Can Feel So Empty
They always maintain at least a few and they make sure that, you know, on a reasonably regular basis that they catch up with everybody so that they always know they've got this insurance policy in place. You know, they're eking out a living in a really hard part of the world.
Modern Wisdom
#905 - William von Hippel - Why Modern Life Can Feel So Empty
Yeah, they are opposed. And so if you come back to this argument I was making about autonomy and that we develop a sense of autonomy in order to develop competence, that's how we decide the area where we have best prospects. If we're Mario Puzo and we want to write The Godfather, we don't listen to our mother when she says, I want you to become a railroad clerk. And we go for it, right?
Modern Wisdom
#905 - William von Hippel - Why Modern Life Can Feel So Empty
We put everything on the line and try to make it as a writer or whatever we see our competence. Well... So autonomy is in service of competence. It's what gets us there.
Modern Wisdom
#905 - William von Hippel - Why Modern Life Can Feel So Empty
Now, the downside of that is that for me to develop competence, sometimes it's working together as a team, but very often it's trying to develop my own skill, carving that arrow over and over again, sneaking up on the hunt, doing whatever it is that I do that I think makes me special. And that often requires a lot of self-focused attention, a lot of you say, hey, man, I'm going to go to the party.
Modern Wisdom
#905 - William von Hippel - Why Modern Life Can Feel So Empty
And I say, you go, I've got baskets to shoot or I've got baskets to weave, you know, whatever my competence is, right? And so the upshot is that the more I develop competence, the more I have to sacrifice my connections. And that's certainly the case in today's world. I mean, if you look at what school asks us to do, it's all about study, study, study, study.
Modern Wisdom
#905 - William von Hippel - Why Modern Life Can Feel So Empty
And so, yes, you sometimes study in groups, but what you're really trying to do is learn the material yourself. And so what it means is sacrificing, don't go out on recess and play, you know, work hard and do these other things. The consequence of that is that we tend to see people who are competent as being cold if we know nothing else about them. And vice versa.
Modern Wisdom
#905 - William von Hippel - Why Modern Life Can Feel So Empty
So cold and warm refer to our natural tendency and ability to connect. And so if I connect easily and in a friendly manner to you, I'm a warm person. So you meet me on the bus and you say, you know, oh, excuse me. And I go, and I just don't pay any attention to you. I'm not friendly and warm. He's like, oh, of course, mate. I'd be happy to move over. It's good to see you.
Modern Wisdom
#905 - William von Hippel - Why Modern Life Can Feel So Empty
Yeah, these trains sure are wobbly, hard to read. You know, whatever. I just engage with you. Then I'm being warm. And people vary dramatically in how warm or cold they are. They vary dramatically in how competent or incompetent they are. But because... Trying to be more warm tends to sacrifice your competence.
Modern Wisdom
#905 - William von Hippel - Why Modern Life Can Feel So Empty
You know, when you sit down next to me on the bus, if I then pay attention and chat with you the whole trip, I'm not reading that book that I really should learn in order to be a better accountant, right? I'm sacrificing my own time to dedicate it to you. And so these two things tend to be negatively correlated, and we know that. And so we regard warm people as incompetent.
Modern Wisdom
#905 - William von Hippel - Why Modern Life Can Feel So Empty
So you meet somebody who's warm and you go, yeah, I bet they're not very good. And you meet somebody who's cold and you go, oh, I bet they're pretty competent because on average, that's true.
Modern Wisdom
#905 - William von Hippel - Why Modern Life Can Feel So Empty
Exactly. You'd want to make it, what would be the perfect thing is if I could say, you know, you and I, you, my potential boss, you and I really connect, man, we're going to be on the same page. I hate everybody else. All I like to do is, you know, I'm a competence machine.
Modern Wisdom
#905 - William von Hippel - Why Modern Life Can Feel So Empty
At the very least, you were self-oriented. You may not have denied other people requests that they made of you, but when given the opportunity, you ignored them and did your own thing. And some people are so crazy good that they can get there and be friendly every day. One of my old roommates is a professor at Harvard Medical School, and all he ever did his whole life was hang out and play.
Modern Wisdom
#905 - William von Hippel - Why Modern Life Can Feel So Empty
I don't understand how he does it. He's just that good, right? Somehow also was an awesome professor. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. 10 zillion grants changing the world. But somehow, but most of us can't do that. And so most of us, if we become highly competent, we have to sacrifice, at least for a while, we have to sacrifice our connections.
Modern Wisdom
#905 - William von Hippel - Why Modern Life Can Feel So Empty
Again, the irony is I'm becoming competent so that down the road, you're going to want me on your team. You're going to want to connect with me. And the other side of that that's interesting is if you look at hunter-gatherers, they actually prefer the warm ones over the competent ones.
Modern Wisdom
#905 - William von Hippel - Why Modern Life Can Feel So Empty
So long as you achieve some baseline level of competence, when they're choosing teams to go hunting in the morning, they choose the warm one. Because think about it this way. You know, if I'm the best hunter in the group, but I don't share nice with you, what good does it do you to pick me? But if I'm the best, if I'm an adequate hunter and I always go, hey, no, you have the hind leg.
Modern Wisdom
#905 - William von Hippel - Why Modern Life Can Feel So Empty
You're a great guy. You're like, I want to go out with Bill because I'm going to benefit more from it. And so warmth actually trumps competence so long as you're not incompetent.
Modern Wisdom
#905 - William von Hippel - Why Modern Life Can Feel So Empty
Well, across the span of human history is a little hard. We can look at the last 50 years where income has tripled basically in the US and Western Europe. And we can see that average happiness levels haven't increased an iota. They're completely flat. It's called the Easterlin paradox, while country gets richer. And so the little conveniences don't seem to make much difference. You would think...
Modern Wisdom
#905 - William von Hippel - Why Modern Life Can Feel So Empty
You nailed it. That's exactly right. Let's go. I knew I was listening. Right. And so the upshot of all that is that we really want to connect. We really want people that we like. But remember that when they're trying to decide between Rick and Stu to play bass for them, they're never even considering Bill because Bill sucks at the bass and they love him. They think Bill's a really lovely guy.
Modern Wisdom
#905 - William von Hippel - Why Modern Life Can Feel So Empty
They can't wait to catch up with me again at a bar someday. But that guy's not joining our band under any circumstance, no matter how much they love him. Yeah, amazing. It matters that much. Now, the bills never get to join the band. You have to have that minimal level of competence, but then you have to get along because that's what humans are designed to do.
Modern Wisdom
#905 - William von Hippel - Why Modern Life Can Feel So Empty
And so the thing is that what that means is that we actually really enjoy getting along. We don't think, gee, getting along with something super important to me, I will get along. We think, boy, I really like this guy. And evolution guides us with our emotions. And so it gets us to enjoy doing those things that are in our best interest.
Modern Wisdom
#905 - William von Hippel - Why Modern Life Can Feel So Empty
And it's fair enough because it probably annoyed you slightly to your package was a day late. But then you probably got on with life, right? You probably didn't lie there all night going, I can't believe I didn't have sun cream today, right? So the little things make sense. But what doesn't make sense to me is the big things. When you look at the data...
Modern Wisdom
#905 - William von Hippel - Why Modern Life Can Feel So Empty
I think you're absolutely right. And in the end, what's going to always matter the most when conflict is harsh, when times are harsh, is how well do we work together as a team? And so remember earlier I said, well, women are a bit more connected than men on average. That's true.
Modern Wisdom
#905 - William von Hippel - Why Modern Life Can Feel So Empty
They feel tighter connections usually to smaller groups of women than men do who feel looser connections to larger groups. There's one exception to that rule, and that's when you're in intergroup conflict. And so when two groups come into conflict with each other, guys bond with each other in an enormous way.
Modern Wisdom
#905 - William von Hippel - Why Modern Life Can Feel So Empty
And the evolutionary pressure on that's clear because what we have to do now, if, you know, Bill may or may not be a good fighter, but he's on our team. And so he's still, everybody has to work together as the best possible unit.
Modern Wisdom
#905 - William von Hippel - Why Modern Life Can Feel So Empty
You're never going to be in the band. Pick the stick up. We need to kill someone. Exactly. Use that bass like this. And so... The thing is that in those circumstances, connection becomes paramount.
Modern Wisdom
#905 - William von Hippel - Why Modern Life Can Feel So Empty
And in fact, when you talk to soldiers, particularly soldiers who face live fire together, they talk about never feeling closer to anybody in their life than they feel to their fellow soldiers in that moment when their life is being threatened by another group. And it's their teamwork that's going to either get them out of that or fail to.
Modern Wisdom
#905 - William von Hippel - Why Modern Life Can Feel So Empty
And so there's enormous evolutionary pressure on us, particularly on men, because they're the ones who are typically engaged in the center group conflict. And when you lost, every one of the men are going to die. There's no taking prisoners. You either run away and you get lucky or you're dead.
Modern Wisdom
#905 - William von Hippel - Why Modern Life Can Feel So Empty
The women will typically survive, not necessarily in the happiest way, but they're going to make it, whereas the men are not.
Modern Wisdom
#905 - William von Hippel - Why Modern Life Can Feel So Empty
So, for example, some investigators went to Tanzania and asked the Hadza, how happy are you? And over 90% said they're happy. Basically, that was their answer. I'm happy. Whereas when you ask the same question in Poland, which is where the investigators were from, less than 50% said that I'm happy. They chose instead of sometimes I'm happy, sometimes I'm sad, or even I'm sad. And so...
Modern Wisdom
#905 - William von Hippel - Why Modern Life Can Feel So Empty
It's funny, isn't it? But when you look at teams, what's so interesting also is that men, you know, you, you get that awesome example. I don't know that study, but it's a lovely one. And it does, in some ways it doesn't surprise me. So when men are on opposing teams, they can just be harsh as each other. I can drive my shoulder into you, go in for the basket.
Modern Wisdom
#905 - William von Hippel - Why Modern Life Can Feel So Empty
And your thought is, wow, good move, Bill. I would have done that to you if I could have scored a basket like that. And so two years later, when we get traded and I'm now on your team, we're totally mates. And you're like, hey, I want you to do that with me to the other guys. Whereas women, remember I mentioned earlier that they tend to have smaller circles of closer friends.
Modern Wisdom
#905 - William von Hippel - Why Modern Life Can Feel So Empty
As a consequence, they're less forgiving of what you might call betrayal. So if I go against you... it takes a lot of repair work for us to be tight again. Whereas two guys, if I go against you, you say, well, I would have done the same thing if I were Bill's shoes. I got no problem with that. And we can be mates again when the conditions are right, when it suits both of us.
Modern Wisdom
#905 - William von Hippel - Why Modern Life Can Feel So Empty
Exactly. And that's where you nail it. It's that environment that changes who we are. And so they do feel tighter connections than we feel because they spent their whole lives doing it. You know, the example I like to use. So I don't know if you've heard of the Superior Wharf hypothesis. It's this idea that if you don't have a word for something, you can't think it.
Modern Wisdom
#905 - William von Hippel - Why Modern Life Can Feel So Empty
And it was this idea that was super popular in the 30s.
Modern Wisdom
#905 - William von Hippel - Why Modern Life Can Feel So Empty
Sapir Worf. So there's two guys who had this hypothesis in different time points, but it kind of got blended together. And it was a super popular idea that if you have no word for snow, well, then you can't think about snow. And it kind of disappeared after a while because the problem is that if you have lots of experience with snow, well, then of course you have words for it.
Modern Wisdom
#905 - William von Hippel - Why Modern Life Can Feel So Empty
And so is it your experience that helps you think about it or does the word make any difference? Yeah. But Lira Boroditsky at Stanford came along and said, well, let's turn the problem on its head. Let's look at people who have equal experiences, but they either use these things in their words all the time or they don't.
Modern Wisdom
#905 - William von Hippel - Why Modern Life Can Feel So Empty
And so there's here in Queensland, we have a couple of Aboriginal groups who have no word for left, right, front or back. everything that they do is cardinal directions. And so they would say to you, Oh, Hey, Chris, be careful. There's a snake North by Northwest of your foot. And if they said that to me, I'm screwed because I don't know which direction that is.
Modern Wisdom
#905 - William von Hippel - Why Modern Life Can Feel So Empty
But if they say that to each other, they go, ah, and they jump back from the snake. Right. And so they remember this forever. And so when they're telling stories, they'll go, Oh yeah. Um, so there was North by Northwest for me and South by Southeast. I've got this emu and how am I going to resolve this problem? And, um,
Modern Wisdom
#905 - William von Hippel - Why Modern Life Can Feel So Empty
And, you know, if you and I tell the story, you go, there on my right was a lion and there on my left was this. So they asked, well, if you ask them, well, was it on the side of you with the butt or the side of you with the face, right? Because they don't have a word for front or back. They had no problem answering that question. They go, no, that was the side with the face.
Modern Wisdom
#905 - William von Hippel - Why Modern Life Can Feel So Empty
And so it's clear evidence that Sapir and Worf were wrong. You don't have a word for it. You're perfectly capable of thinking about it. But what's amazing is that these guys know where North is all the time. They think about it all the time. And so when these ideas are in your head, if you're accustomed to thinking about it, you start to color the world that way.
Modern Wisdom
#905 - William von Hippel - Why Modern Life Can Feel So Empty
A hundred gathers look like they're happier than we are. And that life of theirs is so difficult to lead. And so part of the story is clearly we get caught up. Everybody gets caught up in the details of life. But there's got to be a bigger part of the story when we zoom out that would explain why, you know, despite all these modern wonderfulnesses about our lives, we don't.
Modern Wisdom
#905 - William von Hippel - Why Modern Life Can Feel So Empty
So hunter-gatherers very much have our, we're them and they're us, but they're connection machines. And so everything that happens to them, they think in the lens of how does this affect me and my group? What are going to be the consequences for me and my group? And you and I, just don't think about our group that much. We think, oh, that's pretty cool. I like that outcome.
Modern Wisdom
#905 - William von Hippel - Why Modern Life Can Feel So Empty
Or that doesn't suit me without saying, well, it'll suit everybody else. I should get involved or whatever. So our habits of thought can change our psychology to some degree. It can become our dominant way of viewing the world, despite the fact that underlying, we are the exact same people.
Modern Wisdom
#905 - William von Hippel - Why Modern Life Can Feel So Empty
That's right. Your psychology will be there. Now, the thing is that with that said, there's, of course, variability on everything. And so some people feel like they're a really good fit to their culture wherever you live. And those people tend to be really happy. Some people feel like they're kind of an outsider.
Modern Wisdom
#905 - William von Hippel - Why Modern Life Can Feel So Empty
And so Stu, the bass player who nobody in the band likes, you know, he's like his thing is playing the bass because he doesn't connect to other humans very well. And maybe, just maybe, if Stu had been a Hadza, their rules would have fit him better. And so there are around the edges, there's going to be people who feel like they're a tighter fit or a looser fit.
Modern Wisdom
#905 - William von Hippel - Why Modern Life Can Feel So Empty
But the loosest fitting Hadza and the loosest fitting, you know, Brit or American or Aussie, whatever, are going to be miles apart in what they do, but they could have switched and been each other.
Modern Wisdom
#905 - William von Hippel - Why Modern Life Can Feel So Empty
So there's a lot of forces. One of them is some of them emerge from inside us. And so if we're highly empathic, for example, some people just have a very high capacity for empathy and some people don't. And you can look at that really easily. So you can even put me in an fMRI magnet, which measures blood flow in my brain.
Modern Wisdom
#905 - William von Hippel - Why Modern Life Can Feel So Empty
And then I have to watch somebody get poked in their hand or tortured in some way. And you can just see me cringing and feeling their pain, like the brain regions that would be activated if you did to me light up. I'm highly empathic. And so when you hurt, I hurt.
Modern Wisdom
#905 - William von Hippel - Why Modern Life Can Feel So Empty
And what that means is I become much more of a connection machine because your pain is my pain and I want to alleviate it just like I want to alleviate my own. And so social justice matters to me a lot. When you experience a harm, I experience a harm. Now, it's sort of a selfish way to look at it, but that selfish way of looking at it has really nice interpersonal consequences.
Modern Wisdom
#905 - William von Hippel - Why Modern Life Can Feel So Empty
Other people are lower in empathy. You poke them in the hand and they're like, oh, I wonder if that hurt. Interesting. Oh, a lot of blood. I bet that did hurt. And it doesn't faze them. You know, we see all sorts of differences between these people. If you're high in empathy, you tend to be politically on the left. If you're low in empathy, you tend to be politically on the right.
Modern Wisdom
#905 - William von Hippel - Why Modern Life Can Feel So Empty
If you're really low in empathy, you tend to be a libertarian. And it's not like being a libertarian is a bad thing, but then autonomy starts to become more important to you. For libertarians, autonomy is a sacred value. If I'm a libertarian-
Modern Wisdom
#905 - William von Hippel - Why Modern Life Can Feel So Empty
We don't have a greater, higher life satisfaction. You know, it's human nature to get annoyed at the small things. But why is it that we're not just walking through life going, God, life is great?
Modern Wisdom
#905 - William von Hippel - Why Modern Life Can Feel So Empty
Yeah, it's this political ramifications of exactly what we're talking about, right? And so if you look at what libertarians are willing to do, I'm not disrespecting libertarian values. Autonomy matters to all of us. But once it becomes ascendant, think about the consequences. So Phil Tetlock did this wonderful study where he asks you, should a person be allowed to do X?
Modern Wisdom
#905 - William von Hippel - Why Modern Life Can Feel So Empty
And should a person be allowed to hire someone to clean their home? You know, pretty much people go, of course. Should a person be able to sell their kidney if they want extra money? A lot of people start to go, no. Now, it's weird to say no to me. I want to sell you my kidney. You're going to die without it. I could use the 20 grand, but it's actually illegal. I can't do that.
Modern Wisdom
#905 - William von Hippel - Why Modern Life Can Feel So Empty
It goes even farther than that. Should a person be able to sell their votes? Should a person be able to sell their jail time? And so for a libertarian, the answer is always yes. And so if I get a DUI and I live in a totally libertarian world, I would just put up on Fiverr who will have their license suspended and go to jail for me for half a million dollars.
Modern Wisdom
#905 - William von Hippel - Why Modern Life Can Feel So Empty
You know, why don't we just appreciate this enormous opportunity and wealth that we have, which I was feeling very superior for those people not appreciating it until I realized I'm not doing it either, right? None of us are.
Modern Wisdom
#905 - William von Hippel - Why Modern Life Can Feel So Empty
And I promise you, lots of hands are going to go up. And now I'm back in my car and everything's copacetic, right? And so if you put autonomy at the top of your list, you start to see the connection consequences. But from a philosophical perspective, it's a defensible viewpoint.
Modern Wisdom
#905 - William von Hippel - Why Modern Life Can Feel So Empty
Yeah. Yeah, it's a great question. All these things are tied together. And so there is no human on this planet who's, well, almost no humans on this planet who are insensitive to the culture they grew up in, right? We were just discussing that. You just become a different person if you're a Hadza than if you're a Brit or an American or whatever. But
Modern Wisdom
#905 - William von Hippel - Why Modern Life Can Feel So Empty
So after a whole lot of cogitating on the problem and looking into the details, what I've come to decide is that it all comes down to this fundamental tension between our two most important needs. So humans evolved. The most important need that we evolved after we left the trees and moved on to the savannah was a need for connection. And this is super important for lots of social animals.
Modern Wisdom
#905 - William von Hippel - Why Modern Life Can Feel So Empty
You're intrinsically the same, but that culture changes you a lot. And so, of course, our gender roles change us a lot. I remember watching this video. It was put on by the ABC, the Australian Broadcasting Company, where they looked at these two women having a debate in the 1960s about whether women should go to university.
Modern Wisdom
#905 - William von Hippel - Why Modern Life Can Feel So Empty
And the one woman who was pro says, think of all the interesting things you learn. And the one woman who's anti was like, no. Why do you need to know that stuff? When your husband comes home, you want to hear about his day. You're taking care of kids all day.
Modern Wisdom
#905 - William von Hippel - Why Modern Life Can Feel So Empty
In fact, I could even imagine it'd be slightly frustrating to be thinking about Marxist philosophy, but changing nappies all day or doing whatever you're doing. And so that debate would never happen anymore. where two women are arguing about whether women should get an education. So our culture changes, and we all change with us.
Modern Wisdom
#905 - William von Hippel - Why Modern Life Can Feel So Empty
We don't even consider that a reasonable argument anymore, even though back in those times, we understand the viewpoint that both of them were taking. So gender roles matter a lot, but they also matter in ways that you, less than you'd think, and they don't matter in ways that you might think they would.
Modern Wisdom
#905 - William von Hippel - Why Modern Life Can Feel So Empty
So for example, if you look at sex differences on any domain, and remember I was talking about men being more autonomy and women being more connection. So women are more likely to reward kindness than others. If you're kind to me and I'm female, I'm going to be more likely to go out of my way to repay it than if I'm male.
Modern Wisdom
#905 - William von Hippel - Why Modern Life Can Feel So Empty
If you're male, you're more likely to punish unkindness or unfriendliness than others because you've impinged on my autonomy when you were unfriendly to me and I'm going to show you you can't do that than if you're female. Both do it, but men do it more.
Modern Wisdom
#905 - William von Hippel - Why Modern Life Can Feel So Empty
Now, if you look at societies that are more gender egalitarian, where there's fewer rules about what men and women can do, those sex differences get larger. They don't get smaller.
Modern Wisdom
#905 - William von Hippel - Why Modern Life Can Feel So Empty
And so men in Scandinavia are more likely to punish unfriendliness, and women in Scandinavia are more likely to reward kindness than men and women in Tunisia, where they've got very strict gender roles about how they're meant to behave. So they often work exactly opposite that you'd think, arguing for their being underlying the strong cultural impact, a very strong biological impact as well.
Modern Wisdom
#905 - William von Hippel - Why Modern Life Can Feel So Empty
Yeah, it would be hard. It's unfortunate it's a hard book to write because science and morality have nothing to do with each other. If you look at what nature does, there's a bug out there where every time she always lays six eggs, they're inside her body. They're ovoviviparous. So the eggs hatch inside her. And there's one boy and five girls. He then has sex with all of his sisters.
Modern Wisdom
#905 - William von Hippel - Why Modern Life Can Feel So Empty
They kill him and eat him. And then instead of being birthed naturally, they bite their way out of her like in the movie Aliens. What?
Modern Wisdom
#905 - William von Hippel - Why Modern Life Can Feel So Empty
I can't remember. It's some kind of a dust mite, if I remember right. Oh, my God. I know. But, of course, now this is like a Greek tragedy. It's going to happen to them, too, because they had sex with their brother before they went out.
Modern Wisdom
#905 - William von Hippel - Why Modern Life Can Feel So Empty
And so this exact same story is enacted for all eternity, where they're all going to die like they're in the movie Alien after having incest with their sibling while they're inside their mother. It's going to happen forever. Oh, my God. Like, is there a morality lesson here? Do we learn something from this bug that should guide human behavior in any way? No, it's irrelevant.
Modern Wisdom
#905 - William von Hippel - Why Modern Life Can Feel So Empty
And you can find every, if there's something nasty that could happen, it's happening somewhere in nature. Does that mean that we as humans should go, oh, it's natural and therefore important and good and we should guide ourselves by it? No, it's got nothing to do with it. So he should be able to write a book about the biology of sex differences that should not
Modern Wisdom
#905 - William von Hippel - Why Modern Life Can Feel So Empty
They connect with each other for their safety. Now, humans connect for each other for a host of reasons, and more than happy to chat about that if you're interested. But basically, we connected so that we could cooperate, so that we could work together, and we could, instead of scurrying around the edges of the savannah, we could slowly rise back to the top of the food chain.
Modern Wisdom
#905 - William von Hippel - Why Modern Life Can Feel So Empty
have any impact on what humans ought to do to each other. It should be an easy book to write. In fact, everyone who cares about gender relations should want to read that book so they know what they're dealing with. But unfortunately, it worked the other way, right?
Modern Wisdom
#905 - William von Hippel - Why Modern Life Can Feel So Empty
That's a great question. And so I thought about this for a long time. And I think that the problem is this. So let me rewind the clock a tiny bit. We used to live in a world where connection was paramount. And so if you guys wanted to go north and I wanted to go south, even though our cultural rules are actually, we're all egalitarian, we're all autonomous, I can do what I want.
Modern Wisdom
#905 - William von Hippel - Why Modern Life Can Feel So Empty
I can't go south unless I can persuade you guys to go my way because I'm going to end up being eaten by a lion and you guys are going to end up being fine. And so I had to rely on my connections and my opportunities for autonomy were actually relatively rare. Every once in a while, I had a true choice where I didn't need to connect, where safety was fine and I could do whatever I wanted.
Modern Wisdom
#905 - William von Hippel - Why Modern Life Can Feel So Empty
When that happened, what I believe is that we evolved to pick autonomy because it was so rare that we could actually pick it. So connection was what we needed. Autonomy was what we wanted. It wasn't uncommon. And so we evolved to grab it whenever we could. Now, we often create what are called evolutionary mismatches, where our biology changes slowly, our culture changes rapidly.
Modern Wisdom
#905 - William von Hippel - Why Modern Life Can Feel So Empty
And so things that we wanted in the past, we want them because they're good for us. Remember, evolution guides us, so to speak, via our emotions. And so we all seek out fat, sugar, and salt all the time, for example. They're all really rare on the savannah. And so now we live in a modern world where fat, sugar, and salt are two meters away from me all the time.
Modern Wisdom
#905 - William von Hippel - Why Modern Life Can Feel So Empty
The problem is that even if there was a lot of it one day, I probably should eat more because there's probably not going to be any of it tomorrow. And so I want fat, salt, and sugar when I ought to stop eating because our ancestors never suffered from eating too much fat, salt, and sugar. But now, of course, that's an enormous problem. It's a form of what I would call miswanting.
Modern Wisdom
#905 - William von Hippel - Why Modern Life Can Feel So Empty
So it was connection that turned us into the apex predators on the planet. Took a long time, but it did the job. But simultaneous with our evolution of connection, which I would regard our most important need, this desire to cooperate, to form friendships, to form romantic relationships. Simultaneous with that, we also developed this need for autonomy.
Modern Wisdom
#905 - William von Hippel - Why Modern Life Can Feel So Empty
You can imagine an evolutionary mismatch leading to miswanting. You can also imagine an evolutionary mismatch leading to what I call misfeeling, which is When you worry about things you shouldn't worry about. So, for example, I'm really scared of spiders. They wig me out. And I was in Sydney on a trip with a bunch of biologists, and we went to the grocery store first.
Modern Wisdom
#905 - William von Hippel - Why Modern Life Can Feel So Empty
And when we got to our campsite and we opened up our box, a funnel web spider hopped out, which is the world's deadliest spider. Now, they're biologists, and I'm just a psychologist, right? So they immediately capture it under glass, which I already thought was crazy. And then when I suggest, yeah, now one of us should stomp on it, by which I mean one of them, they're like, are you crazy?
Modern Wisdom
#905 - William von Hippel - Why Modern Life Can Feel So Empty
This thing is beautiful. And they flick it into the grass, like right next to our barbecue. So the whole night, I've got the willies. I'm like, I can't, everything that touches my skin is making me nervous.
Modern Wisdom
#905 - William von Hippel - Why Modern Life Can Feel So Empty
Now, nobody's died of a funnel web spider bite, despite them being all around, since the 1970s, even though they can kill you really easily because hospitals keep anti-venom, people are good at avoiding them, etc. On the other hand, think about all the ways that we can die. Automobiles and electricity are two really good examples. I've shocked myself once changing a lamp out.
Modern Wisdom
#905 - William von Hippel - Why Modern Life Can Feel So Empty
It threw me across the floor. I'm not scared of lamps at all. I've never been bit by a spider. They give me the heebie-jeebies. Cars whiz by me all the time. Even the smallest one can flatten me. And drivers are really inattentive, but I don't walk down the road going, you know, afraid of cars. I walk down the sidewalk giving them no thought.
Modern Wisdom
#905 - William von Hippel - Why Modern Life Can Feel So Empty
And so I should be afraid of cars and electrical outlets, and I shouldn't be afraid of spiders, but I'm the opposite. I'm misfeeling. And I think what we've got ourselves into is this exact kind of evolution I mismatch with regard to autonomy and connection. And I think the way it's happened is that think about our modern world and all the things that you could do now.
Modern Wisdom
#905 - William von Hippel - Why Modern Life Can Feel So Empty
I want to be a YouTuber where I just talk about my opinions. I want to do... There's a zillion things. That's like the most popular thing that kids want to do. There's a zillion things that I could do. Our ancestors never wondered what they were going to do for a living. They were in the no-choice condition. I will hunt and gather because that's what every human on this planet does, right?
Modern Wisdom
#905 - William von Hippel - Why Modern Life Can Feel So Empty
And so we've got a zillion opportunities for autonomy. And if I'm right and if autonomy and connection are in fundamental tension, then every time we choose autonomy, we're sacrificing our connections and we've gotten out of balance.
Modern Wisdom
#905 - William von Hippel - Why Modern Life Can Feel So Empty
I think wealth and education and urban living all have played a huge role. And so if you start with urban living, living in the cities, in the mid-1800s, well, cities started about 5,000 years ago. The very first cities were getting large around that time. So let's call cities in existence for 5,000 years. So up until 200 years ago, fewer than 1 in 10 people on this planet lived in a city.
Modern Wisdom
#905 - William von Hippel - Why Modern Life Can Feel So Empty
So people voted with their feet very, very slowly. They very slowly migrated to cities. Over thousands of years, 5,000 years, 10% of us had migrated to cities. Between, we go from one in 10 in 1850 to 1960, we now have one in three. By 2007, it was equal. 50% of people live in cities and 50% live in the country. And so there's been a massive movement to the cities.
Modern Wisdom
#905 - William von Hippel - Why Modern Life Can Feel So Empty
What does this have to do with anything? Well, cities are places for autonomy. I can pursue anything I want in the city. There's all sorts of opportunities. Everything is available to me in the city. And so I go to cities for the opportunities, the job, whatever those domains might be.
Modern Wisdom
#905 - William von Hippel - Why Modern Life Can Feel So Empty
And by autonomy, I mean things like self-governance, choosing your own path in life. And the reason for that is that, well, you have to stand out a little bit so you can get chosen as a coalition partner. When you're out going on a hunt, I want you to pick me so that I've got a good chance, you know, you and our mates will catch something together.
Modern Wisdom
#905 - William von Hippel - Why Modern Life Can Feel So Empty
And you think in principle, that's fine because you could have your cake, you need it too, but it turns out you can't. And so even though when I live in the city, I'm cheek by jowl with a lot of other people, you know, my apartment building might have a thousand humans in it. It turns out I usually don't know them. I might not even know the people in the apartment right next to mine.
Modern Wisdom
#905 - William von Hippel - Why Modern Life Can Feel So Empty
Whereas if I live in the country and my nearest neighbor is 500 meters away, I probably know them well. So when you ask people in cities, do you know someone that you trust with your house keys? They're less likely to say yes than when you ask someone in the country, despite having people all around them all the time. And so what we've done, cities living is an example.
Modern Wisdom
#905 - William von Hippel - Why Modern Life Can Feel So Empty
We sacrificed our connections in order to gain that autonomy in city living. And then you say, all right, fine. People have been voting with their feet. All the humans on the planet are doing it. It must make you happier. Actually, it doesn't. If you look at happiness in city versus the country, people are more likely to be very happy in the country than they are in the city.
Modern Wisdom
#905 - William von Hippel - Why Modern Life Can Feel So Empty
So we're making ourselves unhappy when we choose autonomy and humans are doing it all over the planet.
Modern Wisdom
#905 - William von Hippel - Why Modern Life Can Feel So Empty
Those are great examples. So wealth is, you know, poor people need each other. If you live in a poor neighborhood and you want to mow your lawn and your lawnmower broke, you probably can't afford to have it repaired or buy another one, but you could borrow one from your neighbor.
Modern Wisdom
#905 - William von Hippel - Why Modern Life Can Feel So Empty
And the same holds if you need your dog sat while you're out of town or whatever the case might be, you can't fire a dog sitter, you're broke. So poor people live in this kind of network of interdependence with each other, whereby they just count on each other all the time. In that sense, they're a lot like our hunter-gatherer ancestors. They have these tight connections because they need to.
Modern Wisdom
#905 - William von Hippel - Why Modern Life Can Feel So Empty
Rich people don't need each other at all. If I run out of my favorite coffee beans, I'll just drone it in. My latte will be here in 45 minutes. I've got the money to solve all my problems. And so again, when I'm rich, I don't even necessarily know who my neighbors are. So if you ask rich people and poor people, how much time do you spend with your neighbors?
Modern Wisdom
#905 - William von Hippel - Why Modern Life Can Feel So Empty
Poor people are more than twice as likely to get together with their neighbors regularly as rich people are. And so rich people are sacrificing their connections. Now you might say, well, they're still happy because they're doing exactly what they want.
Modern Wisdom
#905 - William von Hippel - Why Modern Life Can Feel So Empty
But again, rich people are happier than poor people, but the data suggests that when they're forced to make connections, that actually makes a big difference in their lives.
Modern Wisdom
#905 - William von Hippel - Why Modern Life Can Feel So Empty
When there's a woman in our group who's looking for a partner, I want her to pick me so that my genes get in the next generation. That might not be my personal motive, but that's my evolutionary writ large motive. And so the problem is that our need for autonomy and our need for connection are in direct opposition to each other. Evolution kind of played this dirty trick on us.
Modern Wisdom
#905 - William von Hippel - Why Modern Life Can Feel So Empty
No, that's right. And so getting rich, the kind of person who gets rich is often an autonomy machine because that's usually your route to get there. Not always. You can get there by glad handing. And if you're sales, that might be how you did it. But the other side of that coin, though, is you could be born into a wealthy family. You did nothing to gain that wealth. You're rich.
Modern Wisdom
#905 - William von Hippel - Why Modern Life Can Feel So Empty
Your very wealthy dad or mom married somebody who's highly connected, and then you just inherited all that. You still don't need your neighbors. And when you don't need your neighbors, like there's these really interesting studies that Paul Piff and their colleagues do where they bring people into the lab where they grew up poor or grew up rich, and they have them get acquainted in conversations.
Modern Wisdom
#905 - William von Hippel - Why Modern Life Can Feel So Empty
And people who grew up poor are engaged with each other, and they're talking back and forth. They're connecting. And people who are rich are far more likely to look down at their phone. If they don't have their phone, they're likely to doodle. They pay less attention. They're less capable of taking each other's perspective because they're just less engaged. They don't need each other.
Modern Wisdom
#905 - William von Hippel - Why Modern Life Can Feel So Empty
And unfortunately, even though they don't need each other physically, which is where we evolved, we still need each other socially, even if we don't know it. And so all those decisions that rich people are making on a daily basis to not connect with their neighbor, to not do those things, because in the moment they'd rather watch TV or they'd rather do whatever, those are building up a cost.
Modern Wisdom
#905 - William von Hippel - Why Modern Life Can Feel So Empty
Yeah, that's a great question. I don't know why it is what the underlying psychology is in the background. But what I can say is that in the moment when what you want to do competes with what your social obligations are, we tend to default, if we can, to, well, what I really want to do right now is X. And it's because I believe that our ancestors...
Modern Wisdom
#905 - William von Hippel - Why Modern Life Can Feel So Empty
I faced that problem 75 times a day and 74, they had to choose, go along with everybody else. And so when that one moment, when they can do what they want, they're going to grab it. And so we've evolved this psychology. I believe that focuses on what we want in the moment and forgets about what we need in the longer term. And so let me give you a, for example,
Modern Wisdom
#905 - William von Hippel - Why Modern Life Can Feel So Empty
If you look at poor and rich people who either never go to religious services or who go regularly, the effect of going to religious services is larger among the rich than it is among the poor. It has a bigger impact on their happiness. Now, there's countless reasons why it ought to be the opposite.
Modern Wisdom
#905 - William von Hippel - Why Modern Life Can Feel So Empty
And for example, if you ignore services, but you just look at prayer, prayer makes poor people happier than rich people does. So people who pray versus never pray and don't ever go to services, it has a bigger bump in happiness for poor than rich, which makes sense because poor people don't have a lot of stuff. Rich people have the stuff that poor people are praying for.
Modern Wisdom
#905 - William von Hippel - Why Modern Life Can Feel So Empty
That in order to be happy, we need both. But to the degree that I'm autonomous, I have to sacrifice my relationships. If you say, hey, let's go to the bar and I want to go play pool or, well, that would be in a bar. If I want to go swimming, I have to decide, well, do I value my relationship with Chris so I can go out with him or do I really want to do what I want to do?
Modern Wisdom
#905 - William von Hippel - Why Modern Life Can Feel So Empty
And so it's not the belief side that matters about going to services. It's forcing you to connect. So if you're a religious person and you feel you're meant to be in church every week or more than once a week, that's a lot of connection that's being foisted upon you. You're now like a hunter-gatherer. You don't have choice. And it makes an enormous difference in the happiness of people's lives.
Modern Wisdom
#905 - William von Hippel - Why Modern Life Can Feel So Empty
And it makes an even bigger difference for rich than poor because they're avoiding those connections otherwise. And so each time we make that decision in the moment, do I want to go over to Chris's and borrow some coffee beans? He's going to bug me when I'm busy. Screw it. I'm going to order it on Amazon.
Modern Wisdom
#905 - William von Hippel - Why Modern Life Can Feel So Empty
Each time we do that, we're happier for that micro decision, but we're adding a little chip to our unhappiness by sacrificing our connections.
Modern Wisdom
#905 - William von Hippel - Why Modern Life Can Feel So Empty
Yeah, that would be awesome. I mean, not long ago, I remember ordering a pizza, and it came with barbecue sauce instead of tomato sauce on my meat lettuce pizza. And I was just devastated. I was like, how could this happen to me? And a couple of hunter-gatherers in our existence, and I would go, oh, who cares about my pizza, right?
Modern Wisdom
#905 - William von Hippel - Why Modern Life Can Feel So Empty
It's kind of heartbreaking because they've achieved the dream that all of us dream about, that we want. And I remember, I can't remember which congressman it was, but he talked about, I've achieved everything I ever wanted. And all day long, I'm with people. And that should be great. But they're all shallow connections. And I go home and I'm alone.
Modern Wisdom
#905 - William von Hippel - Why Modern Life Can Feel So Empty
And it's just the discrepancy between what I've achieved at work and what I've achieved in my personal life is so great that I just, I can barely face it. And that's like this epitome of a sad success story, right?
Modern Wisdom
#905 - William von Hippel - Why Modern Life Can Feel So Empty
And the problem is that for a lot of us to get there, either we had to sacrifice those connections because we really worked hard, or maybe we didn't work that hard and we didn't have to sacrifice the connections, but we're still making the wrong choice every day because those autonomy choices are so available to us.
Modern Wisdom
#905 - William von Hippel - Why Modern Life Can Feel So Empty
And so you say to me, you know, Bill, I'd really like to see a Schwarzenegger flick. And I'm like, I want to see a rom-com. And I say, well, I'll see you later. Forget it. When I should just go to whatever movie you want to see because it's less important than you and I getting together, hanging out, talking about it afterwards and that sort of thing.
Modern Wisdom
#905 - William von Hippel - Why Modern Life Can Feel So Empty
Oh, absolutely. And the thing is, I do think the balance was wrong. Our ancestors had no choice. They had to be connection machines. And when you look around the world, as every society gets wealthier, they become more individualistic. And that's understandable. You feel sorry for the old guy who got this sweatshirt and then knew he was going to have to give it away. And he's like, forget it.
Modern Wisdom
#905 - William von Hippel - Why Modern Life Can Feel So Empty
And the same with relationships. As soon as I agree to do what you want, I have to sacrifice my own individual needs unless we happen to align perfectly. And then we get lucky. And so what I think is a problem is that our ancestors had a balance between these needs that made sense for humans. And the modern world has kicked that balance out of whack.
Modern Wisdom
#905 - William von Hippel - Why Modern Life Can Feel So Empty
I'm just keeping this one. I'm not giving this away this time. Yeah. Just the notion of not having anything you can call your own sounds hard to us, right? And so that balance needed to be corrected.
Modern Wisdom
#905 - William von Hippel - Why Modern Life Can Feel So Empty
But of course, the problem has now shifted in the other direction where we're constantly making these decisions, where we're making these choices that each choice makes the small sacrifice, that each choice is a good one. Every time I say, well, I'd rather just have the latte I wanted or I'd rather do whatever. You know, we even see this among married couples quite remarkably.
Modern Wisdom
#905 - William von Hippel - Why Modern Life Can Feel So Empty
People are spending less time with their friends than they ever did before. They're spending less time with their neighbors than they ever did before. And married couples are spending more time separately. Now, if you get lucky, you have people in your life who want to do exactly what you want to do. And then you don't have any of these problems, right? You've got somebody who's right beside you.
Modern Wisdom
#905 - William von Hippel - Why Modern Life Can Feel So Empty
When you're busy doing your thing, they're busy doing theirs. And then you guys reconnect and you have the same leisure activities, etc. But that takes a lot of luck. And so on average, what's happening is that he's going to the gym and she's going to run outside or whatever, right? And the upshot is that even married couples are spending less time together.
Modern Wisdom
#905 - William von Hippel - Why Modern Life Can Feel So Empty
And so as far as time alone is concerned, being quality time, even in the closest relationships we have, it's going down.
Modern Wisdom
#905 - William von Hippel - Why Modern Life Can Feel So Empty
They definitely matter. It's the time alone that kills us. And so the thing is that if you've got a partner who you enjoy quality time with and then that's a huge plus. And especially if neither of you has to sacrifice your autonomy, because both of you like, you're both art lovers.
Modern Wisdom
#905 - William von Hippel - Why Modern Life Can Feel So Empty
And so now you get to do what you want to do and you get to do it together and you can stand in front of that Monet painting and both marvel at it together. And that's really nice. Those are bonding moments, but not everybody has that. And then you have to find the way when she wants to go to the movies and you want to go to the art show or ski or, you know, whatever your preferences are. And,
Modern Wisdom
#905 - William von Hippel - Why Modern Life Can Feel So Empty
And I don't think that it has to be your romantic partner that you do those things with. But what I have come to realize is that, and it was actually COVID that showed me this, that there's lots of things that we do alone that people who matter to us also do alone that we could just do them together. Now, in the best case scenario, we do them together physically.
Modern Wisdom
#905 - William von Hippel - Why Modern Life Can Feel So Empty
You and I are both trying to get fit. So we meet every Thursday or twice a week or whatever, and we go run or lift or whatever we're doing. Yeah. But of course, you actually live a long way from me. And so if we're mates from way back, we have to do it e-connecting. But the great thing is e-connecting is awfully easy now.
Modern Wisdom
#905 - William von Hippel - Why Modern Life Can Feel So Empty
You know, we disparage it and there's reasons to, but it also allows us to get together when we can't. So my little sister lives in London and she always likes to do the crossword and I always like to do the crossword. And so when COVID started... We were both locked down a lot. We just started doing the crossword together. And so we just get on the phone and we're doing the crossword.
Modern Wisdom
#905 - William von Hippel - Why Modern Life Can Feel So Empty
And of course, there's lots of random chit chat and we kind of catch up on each other's day. Now, even though I love her dearly, I used to speak to her, you know, once every month at best. And suddenly we're not talking three or four days a week because we're just we have these defaults on these days when she wakes up and makes her coffee. It's now at the end of the day for me. We do the crossword.
Modern Wisdom
#905 - William von Hippel - Why Modern Life Can Feel So Empty
And why not? Why not take connection in and out easily? I remember there was this guy, he wrote this up in the New York Times about how he was going to reconnect with all of his old friends. And so he went way out of his way to find them all and got together with them. And then he ends up by saying, am I going to keep this up? Probably not. It was just too much effort.
Modern Wisdom
#905 - William von Hippel - Why Modern Life Can Feel So Empty
And that's the problem with us. We're lazy. When your closest friend moves an hour away... you're just not going to see them in person anymore. And so we have to find, we have to know yourself. You have to know you're lazy or busy. You know, it's not just bad, right? We're busy people. And then you have to find ways to add connection in without sacrificing additional time.
Modern Wisdom
#905 - William von Hippel - Why Modern Life Can Feel So Empty
Ideally, without sacrificing your autonomy, continue to do what you want to do, but connecting at the same time.
Modern Wisdom
#905 - William von Hippel - Why Modern Life Can Feel So Empty
So that's a great question. The thing about autonomy is if we were dung beetles, it probably wouldn't matter. You know, a dung beetle has one path to success in life. If it's a male, it has to roll the biggest ball of poo that it possibly can. And then the female will go, well, that's a big ball of poo. I'll mate with you. And then she lays her eggs and then Bob's your uncle. You're ready to go.
Modern Wisdom
#905 - William von Hippel - Why Modern Life Can Feel So Empty
Yeah, I used to marvel at it because, you know, when I was a little kid in the 60s and 70s, the world was a much rougher place and our attitudes were pretty rough. You know, I had a lot of friends who were gay, for example, who I didn't know they're gay because they're telling nobody because you just get beat up. You know, it was not a good time to be different in any way.
Modern Wisdom
#905 - William von Hippel - Why Modern Life Can Feel So Empty
And now it's a great time to be different. You can be anybody you want to be. And even if what you are is super rare, you can still find people to connect with on the Internet who you could never have found, you know, when I was a kid and all that and prior to that world. We're also way kinder to each other.
Modern Wisdom
#905 - William von Hippel - Why Modern Life Can Feel So Empty
You know, literally, the solution to fighting on the playground was when the bell rang at the end of the playground and somebody lost and somebody won, and the hierarchy was reshuffled or kept the same, depending on the outcome. But teachers never stepped in to stop someone from beating somebody else up. It just didn't happen.
Modern Wisdom
#905 - William von Hippel - Why Modern Life Can Feel So Empty
If it was outside the school grounds, you're not allowed to beat up in class, of course. And so, you know, when you look at that world and how rough it was and how unpleasant it was, you'd think, oh, well, probably people had a lot of mental health problems then that just have gotten a lot better.
Modern Wisdom
#905 - William von Hippel - Why Modern Life Can Feel So Empty
And of course, you and I know that it's the opposite, that the current generation is more anxious, the current generation of adolescents and young adults are more anxious than any generation before them, even though the world's so much better of a place.
Modern Wisdom
#905 - William von Hippel - Why Modern Life Can Feel So Empty
And I think that part of it is exactly what we're talking about, this lack of balance that we have between autonomy and connection, that it's gone awry and it's gotten worse in the last 50 years.
Modern Wisdom
#905 - William von Hippel - Why Modern Life Can Feel So Empty
It's a great question. I think, I don't know. I don't know. But I would conjecture that the answer is, Chris Rock once said, you know, if you think words hurt you, then you've never been punched in the face. And and I agree with him. I've been punched in the face and it's not nice. And when I was a kid, you know, the this little phrase that we were taught is somebody's making fun of you.
Modern Wisdom
#905 - William von Hippel - Why Modern Life Can Feel So Empty
Sticks and stones will break my bones, but words will never hurt me. And so, in other words, I don't care what you say to me. I only care if you punch me in the face. My feelings are my problem, not yours. And you're not going to be able to impinge on them either way. Well, as our world's gotten so wonderful, it's so much safer than it used to be.
Modern Wisdom
#905 - William von Hippel - Why Modern Life Can Feel So Empty
I rolled out of a car when I was a little kid because the door swung open and there's not even a seatbelt in the back. And I'm four years old and I roll across the street. That just doesn't happen anymore. As we don't get hurt in random mayhem-y kinds of ways, then we start lowering the bar on what it means to be hurt.
Modern Wisdom
#905 - William von Hippel - Why Modern Life Can Feel So Empty
And eventually what it means to be heard is that neuroscientists can write in all seriousness that words are violent, that they cause harm. Because when people read mean words or people say mean things to them, painful thoughts happen in their mind. Well, of course, painful thoughts happen in your mind. But we used to be robust to that because that was the least of our concerns.
Modern Wisdom
#905 - William von Hippel - Why Modern Life Can Feel So Empty
But if you're a human, there's many, many routes to success. And so you have to decide what's my best possible avenue. And you know what your motivations are. You know what your... what you enjoy, and you know what your proclivities are. And so the person who's best placed to choose your route to success is you.
Modern Wisdom
#905 - William von Hippel - Why Modern Life Can Feel So Empty
And now we're just less robust to it. And so think about all the kinds of ways the world could go bad. And if even words are scary to you, the things people might say or think about you, well, then the world is a scary place. And it makes sense that you would be a lot more anxious than you used to be.
Modern Wisdom
#905 - William von Hippel - Why Modern Life Can Feel So Empty
Yeah, that's super hard. And for me, I think the answer is small fixes that have to become habit. And the key is there's two components. One is you can't do like that guy in the New York Times op-ed who finds all of his old friends and puts you, Jeff, into seeing them and then just doesn't have the time for that and so quits doing it. There's no accomplishment there.
Modern Wisdom
#905 - William von Hippel - Why Modern Life Can Feel So Empty
But you can do like what I did where now when I'm going to do the crossword anyway, I immediately call my sister first and we just do it together because what difference does it make to me? And it's nice. It's actually more fun to chat with her. And I'm not good enough at crosswords to get them by myself. And so it's great when I've got her help. Right. So everything's better when I do it that way.
Modern Wisdom
#905 - William von Hippel - Why Modern Life Can Feel So Empty
But the second component to that is it has to become habit, because if we have to decide to connect. We just don't do it. And so you want it to be a habit like the same way brushing your teeth is. You don't wake up in the morning and go, should I brush my teeth today? You follow your routine. You ate breakfast, you brush your teeth.
Modern Wisdom
#905 - William von Hippel - Why Modern Life Can Feel So Empty
It's what we call surrendering control of our behavior to the environment. After breakfast, I brush my teeth. You want your new habits to work the same way, your socializing habits. And so you want to think about what are the activities that I do alone? And how could I connect while I do them?
Modern Wisdom
#905 - William von Hippel - Why Modern Life Can Feel So Empty
And then once you decide that, you think, well, what are my contingencies that are going to cause me to do that? Not every morning will I decide to do it because you just won't. Decision is hard.
Modern Wisdom
#905 - William von Hippel - Why Modern Life Can Feel So Empty
But if you say, all right, well, on Tuesdays, I like to do X and so to so and so, I'll always call while I'm cleaning up the toys after the toddlers, I'll call my old high school friend because she's doing the same thing or whatever the case might be, right? You reintroduce connection in ways that become habitual, that are triggered by events in the environment.
Modern Wisdom
#905 - William von Hippel - Why Modern Life Can Feel So Empty
And then it just becomes part of your life again. And it's really nice. You know, we do spend a lot of time alone. Our environment enables that. But you don't have to be fully alone when you do it.
Modern Wisdom
#905 - William von Hippel - Why Modern Life Can Feel So Empty
Yeah, expectations are hard because, you know, it's sort of like when I get upset because they put barbecue sauce on my meat lovers pizza. Things work awfully smoothly in our world. And so we want that continued smooth, friction-free existence. And it's easy enough if somebody steps in and says, hey, hold on, Bill. Are you really that upset that you don't have the pizza sauce that you wanted?
Modern Wisdom
#905 - William von Hippel - Why Modern Life Can Feel So Empty
And you could argue, well, maybe your parents have watched your whole life, are really better than you are, and you don't need autonomy. You just need to do what you're advised to do. But there's a zillion stories of people whose parents said, no, no, I want you to do X, and they were determined to do Y, and they were a success.
Modern Wisdom
#905 - William von Hippel - Why Modern Life Can Feel So Empty
Isn't that absurd? Of course, I'm going to say, oh, you're right. That's absurd. But we're locked up in our moment-to-moment lives. We're not locked up in our long-term life. The world has gotten so much better than it used to be. And 100 years ago, 90% of people were illiterate. 90% of people lived in abject poverty. And now those numbers are reversed.
Modern Wisdom
#905 - William von Hippel - Why Modern Life Can Feel So Empty
Over 90% of the humans on this planet are illiterate. Less than 10% live in abject poverty. The world is so much better than it used to be. And a huge chunk of that is in my lifetime. But it still happens really, really slowly. You don't notice it. The papers aren't full of this good news. It's all the momentary tiny tidbits of bad news of what happened today.
Modern Wisdom
#905 - William von Hippel - Why Modern Life Can Feel So Empty
And the things that happened today that are bad are just more noticeable than the things that are good. And so we get really caught up with those friction and it's hard for us to back up. And I don't have good advice. You know, some of us have the good fortune that we're glass is half full kind of people. We just see opportunity and good.
Modern Wisdom
#905 - William von Hippel - Why Modern Life Can Feel So Empty
And some of us have the bad fortune that we're sort of genetically glass half empty type people. There's strong evolution, not evolution, but genetic component to that. And so if you're the glass is half empty, that's making you unhappy. You need to start trying really hard to focus on the part that's full.
Modern Wisdom
#905 - William von Hippel - Why Modern Life Can Feel So Empty
I mean, the author of The Godfather talks about how his mother wanted him to be a clerk in a railroad station. Because that's a reliable job and you'll always have, you know, it's hard to fire you and you'll always have an income. And, you know, if he'd taken our advice, we wouldn't have those amazing books and movies.
Modern Wisdom
#905 - William von Hippel - Why Modern Life Can Feel So Empty
Yeah, because those are easy to see. I think your example is right on target. And the example I like to think about is we now have pretty good polygenic scores for obesity, where we know all the genes that are combined and the role they play. And the data suggests that they play up to 70% of your obesity is driven by your genes.
Modern Wisdom
#905 - William von Hippel - Why Modern Life Can Feel So Empty
And obviously, that's an interaction between genes and environment because nobody was obese when I was a little kid or hardly anybody was. And now, almost everybody is. So, there's environmental changes that we can remake and get back to where we were. But setting all that problem aside, you can look at people's polygenic score.
Modern Wisdom
#905 - William von Hippel - Why Modern Life Can Feel So Empty
And if you have obese polygenic score, you're much more likely to be obese than if you don't. But... There's lots of thin people who have obese polygenic scores. And there are very few thin people who have thin polygenic scores who are obese. So you're much more likely to push in the direction you want to be than in the direction that nobody wants to be. And so you can change your life.
Modern Wisdom
#905 - William von Hippel - Why Modern Life Can Feel So Empty
It's harder for some than others. If you have the good luck that your genes are of a thin person, well, you can go through life eating a fair few donuts and things are going to be okay. If you don't have those genes, it's hard work. You can't eat those donuts. You can't have the easy life that others have, but you can still achieve your goals.
Modern Wisdom
#905 - William von Hippel - Why Modern Life Can Feel So Empty
And so it just depends in the end how important it is to you and then finding the route to get there. And I believe that that route is often the route of least genetic resistance. And so if my polygenic score for obesity is high, we don't know what that means, but we do know that the outcome is likely to be that I'm obese. So then I have to think, well, where are my weaknesses?
Modern Wisdom
#905 - William von Hippel - Why Modern Life Can Feel So Empty
Okay, I can't stop eating brownies. Fine, never, ever gonna buy them. Not gonna go to that corner of the mall where that Mrs. Field shop is. I'm just gonna create my life so that, because humans are terrible at self-control, but they're good at organizing. And so I create my life to make it so that I don't have to resist temptation because I just can't do it.
Modern Wisdom
#905 - William von Hippel - Why Modern Life Can Feel So Empty
And I think the same holds for happiness. You have to step back and say, all right, I am the material success that I want to be. I can't quit. I'm not done. I have to keep doing that. But now I can start to ask myself, all right, well, what's missing? And what makes me the happiest?
Modern Wisdom
#905 - William von Hippel - Why Modern Life Can Feel So Empty
And so, and probably every rock star, I can't imagine one of their parents said, oh, I think you should be a rock star. So you need to decide that for yourself. And once you decide that, you need to decide what the route is to pursue that goal. And so autonomy is what motivates us to find our area of expertise where we might be a success. Because remember, as humans, we're not like a dung beetle.
Modern Wisdom
#905 - William von Hippel - Why Modern Life Can Feel So Empty
And how can I incorporate that into my life with the path of least resistance that makes the most sense for me genetically? And if I'm just not the kind of guy who's going to go to parties full of people I don't know, don't put that on your list because it's just not going to happen, right? You want to choose the path that seems the most likely to lead to success.
Modern Wisdom
#905 - William von Hippel - Why Modern Life Can Feel So Empty
It was great. Yeah. It is super cool. And I've only done the 23andMe one, which doesn't dive into that level of detail. Maybe it does now. I did it because I was interested in my long-term health score, like Alzheimer's risk and things like that. And I was amused to see that I have this Neanderthal allele that makes it hard for me to discard rarely used items.
Modern Wisdom
#905 - William von Hippel - Why Modern Life Can Feel So Empty
We've got a million routes. Autonomy helps us identify what that'll be by seeing where we think we have good prospects, seeing what we enjoy, and then pursuing it relentlessly.
Modern Wisdom
#905 - William von Hippel - Why Modern Life Can Feel So Empty
And I've always just felt like, well, I might need that again. I've got room to store that. It makes sense that I should keep that old shelf bracket. And then you're like, oh, maybe I'm just a product of my inner workings and I'm not running the show at all.
Modern Wisdom
#905 - William von Hippel - Why Modern Life Can Feel So Empty
Yeah. It is entertaining. And it's super interesting. And you also raise a good point where these genes have multiple effects, right? And so we often believe we're going to come to this world where we can genetically just adjust ourselves to what we want to be. But almost every gene has more than one consequence.
Modern Wisdom
#905 - William von Hippel - Why Modern Life Can Feel So Empty
And so you have to ask yourself, well, do I want to be able to focus for long periods of time? And is it worth paying the price of not being able to come back down and clear my adrenaline? Because they don't just have one effect. And so it's not easy to build the perfect human. You have to build a human full of compromises.
Modern Wisdom
#905 - William von Hippel - Why Modern Life Can Feel So Empty
So... I'm now on Instagram. I just set up my account. I was told by my publicist I need to do this. So I'm William Von Hippel or however it works, at William Von Hippel or something like that. I've got a full 40 followers. So I've got legions of people who are already keen to hear what I have to say. Let's do it. But I'm posting there. It links to my website that I've created. And coincidentally-
Modern Wisdom
#905 - William von Hippel - Why Modern Life Can Feel So Empty
This arrived in the mail yesterday. This is my new book. So you can't quite get it yet, but you can. It'll be on all the book places, audio, e, hard copy in just a few weeks.
Modern Wisdom
#905 - William von Hippel - Why Modern Life Can Feel So Empty
Thanks, Chris. It's great talking to you. I really enjoyed it. until next time mate
Modern Wisdom
#905 - William von Hippel - Why Modern Life Can Feel So Empty
So, you know, from an evolutionary point of view, success only cares about reproduction. All that matters is, do you leave people in the next generation to carry your genes? And obviously, that's a very biological perspective on success. But what that means is that if you think about the ways that our ancestors achieved that goal, it's all the things that we think about as success.
Modern Wisdom
#905 - William von Hippel - Why Modern Life Can Feel So Empty
And so what allowed me to... Find a partner and be a successful, a good reputation. Having other people in my camp say, I want Bill on my team when I go hunting, or I want to hang out with Bill around the fire and share stories with him so we both learn from each other. All the kinds of daily things that matter.
Modern Wisdom
#905 - William von Hippel - Why Modern Life Can Feel So Empty
That's the thing. The irony here is that our autonomy evolved in service of connection. The reason that we want to be autonomous is so we can be a success, so people will connect with us, so that they'll choose us. Now, if we were ants, we wouldn't need autonomy to get there. You know, there's lots and lots of animals who don't need that. That's not a route to success.
Modern Wisdom
#905 - William von Hippel - Why Modern Life Can Feel So Empty
We're in this unfortunate circumstance where... Connection is all that matters, but in order to be more likely to connect, you need autonomy. And so think about some of the greats in our world, LeBron or Steph Curry or somebody who spent hours and hours in the gym. You know, that's a lot of alone time. That's a lot of autonomy.
Modern Wisdom
#905 - William von Hippel - Why Modern Life Can Feel So Empty
But what it did is it made them some of the most connected humans on the planet. Everybody loves them, right? And so they're, in ancestral terms, they're not only a success in our modern world, but they're a huge evolutionary success because everybody wants to be around them. Everybody wants their company. And the way they achieve that enormous connection is through incredible autonomy.
Modern Wisdom
#905 - William von Hippel - Why Modern Life Can Feel So Empty
Well, so what you've got, what you said so far is exactly on target. Those are the kinds of things that make connection important for all animals. And then humans start to become different because remember you just said whittling your weapons for a few weeks.
Modern Wisdom
#905 - William von Hippel - Why Modern Life Can Feel So Empty
Humans are the only species that can think about tomorrow, think about where they are today and think about what do I need to do between now and tomorrow in order to make that a success rather than a failure. And so we sit around whittling weapons for weeks when no other animals ever occurred to them to do that.
Modern Wisdom
#905 - William von Hippel - Why Modern Life Can Feel So Empty
And I say to you, you know, Chris, maybe this time if you hide behind the tree and I come out from the right and you're like, no, no, no, no, no, I'm left-handed. You come out and I go, oh, great idea. You know, we make plans, right? All that really matters. It's one more element to human connection though that makes it magical and that I think is what makes our society such an incredible success.
Modern Wisdom
#905 - William von Hippel - Why Modern Life Can Feel So Empty
And the threat to connection is always that A, there might be free riders. So like I do all my cooperating and hard work and then you run off with the prize. And B, there might be a cost to it that I can't pay. And so for example, if I'm a vampire bat and you are too, and we've gone out hunting for the night, we can't go for too many nights without success.
Modern Wisdom
#905 - William von Hippel - Why Modern Life Can Feel So Empty
And so if you haven't had any success, you'll come to me and you'll expose yourself in a certain way that's sort of begging for some of the blood that I successfully hunted for that night. And if we're buddies, I'll give it to you. It's not pleasant, but I'll regurgitate into a circle. I'm sure they think it's fine. So the problem is, though, that you and I could be best mates.
Modern Wisdom
#905 - William von Hippel - Why Modern Life Can Feel So Empty
But if I was a failure, too, I can't give you anything. I'm like, sorry, Chris, man, I'd love to help you, but I've got no blood. I'm starving, too. And so now we're both at risk. Now, you think about what humans share that matter the most. Sometimes it's food. Sometimes it's shelter. But nine times out of 10, it's information.
Modern Wisdom
#905 - William von Hippel - Why Modern Life Can Feel So Empty
I tell you something that's incredibly valuable and you're like, holy cow, I will invest in Apple or wow, I won't go around that corner because there's a lion right there.
Modern Wisdom
#905 - William von Hippel - Why Modern Life Can Feel So Empty
Exactly. So the... The thing is that I can give you that for free. If I know something that you don't know, it doesn't matter if you're ever going to repay me. You know, you and I walk into the national park and I say, hey, mate, you may want to turn around. There's a bear 50 meters ahead of you. And you go, oh, I'd like to turn around. So I just saved your life. I don't even know you.
Modern Wisdom
#905 - William von Hippel - Why Modern Life Can Feel So Empty
It doesn't matter. And the fact that you'll never repay me doesn't matter because it was so easy to give you that. Essentially costless. Yeah. So we're information machines. That's our niche. And it turns out we're so good at communicating, we can give it to each other for free when we want to. Okay, how does that add complexity in? Well, it solves a bunch of problems.
Modern Wisdom
#905 - William von Hippel - Why Modern Life Can Feel So Empty
So if I'm a vampire bat and I'm gonna give you some of my blood, I have to say, well, let me think, what did Chris say last time I asked him? And is he gonna come through for me next time? And how do I know? Well, I just don't care if all I'm doing is telling you something because you don't ever need to repay me. It's costless for me to give it to you.
Modern Wisdom
#905 - William von Hippel - Why Modern Life Can Feel So Empty
And so humans have created societies where by and large, we pay it forward. We live in a world where we all kind of trust each other, where we all look out for each other. And it's so easy. It's so costless. I remember, you know, it's also nice because what happens along with the costlessness is the person who received it doesn't reflect on the cost of the giving.
Modern Wisdom
#905 - William von Hippel - Why Modern Life Can Feel So Empty
Yeah, that's the sort of shocking fact that got me started on this book. And I always thought it was everybody else. You know, I read this literature. I know it very well. Being wealthy doesn't make you happy. And I kind of admit I felt a little superior to wealthy people. And I thought, well, you know, here I am, just middle-class guy.
Modern Wisdom
#905 - William von Hippel - Why Modern Life Can Feel So Empty
They reflect on the value of the receiving. And so I remember the first time I ever went to a conference and I didn't know a soul. And so I got my plate, you know, I'm sitting down next to my fellow academics. I'm really excited because I'm this brand new academic and I'm learning about my world.
Modern Wisdom
#905 - William von Hippel - Why Modern Life Can Feel So Empty
And I sit down between these two people who I now know well and are really nice people, but they're actually super shy and they literally turn their back on me. And so I'm like, I'm sitting all by myself at this first conference. I don't know a soul. And this pretty famous professor from Santa Barbara sees this situation.
Modern Wisdom
#905 - William von Hippel - Why Modern Life Can Feel So Empty
And he walks over, plops down at the table behind me, turns his chair around and says, hey, I'm Dave. Great to meet you. What do you do? Like, I'm sure he couldn't care less. But he's just like politely welcoming to the fold because it's costless. It's just chit-chatting information. Well, now...
Modern Wisdom
#905 - William von Hippel - Why Modern Life Can Feel So Empty
I remember that so fondly that many years later when he's retiring, I wrote about that in his little retirement blog. And we run into each other again. And he goes, oh, that was so nice of you to write about that. I have to admit, I have no memory for it at all. I was like a little bit hurt. Like, how could he have saved me at my very first conference and he can't even remember?
Modern Wisdom
#905 - William von Hippel - Why Modern Life Can Feel So Empty
Well, now the shoe's in the other foot. And I run into a colleague of mine who's 15 years younger. And I say to him, he and I run into each other in the hall. And I say to the person who's with him, oh, he and I have known each other since we were grad students. He was a grad student. And he goes, no, no, I met you when I was an undergrad. And I was like, really?
Modern Wisdom
#905 - William von Hippel - Why Modern Life Can Feel So Empty
And he goes, yeah, yeah, I was at a conference. I was standing there. You just walked up to me and asked me how I'm doing and what I'm interested in. And then the people you're with were going off to lunch or talk or whatever. And you invited me to come along. I was like, oh, sorry, I don't remember that. Because it's like so easy to do that for somebody else, but it means so much to them.
Modern Wisdom
#905 - William von Hippel - Why Modern Life Can Feel So Empty
And so obviously I was just channeling the lesson I'd learned before. It was so easy to do. It was nothing. And the consequence of all this is that we feel this enormous debt when others help us out. We think, I'm going to do that myself. I'm going to pay forward in this kind of way.
Modern Wisdom
#905 - William von Hippel - Why Modern Life Can Feel So Empty
And we create these sort of societies with these virtuous circles in them where people are actually really good to each other all the time because it's so easy to do that. No other animal can come close to that.
Something You Should Know
A Paradox That Makes You Miserable & How We Amplify Our Own Stress
And so what the data suggests is that if somebody can get you to socialize, if they can push you to go and hang out with lots of other people who are like-minded in at least some ways, who are going to be friendly to you, that's the best thing that we can do for your happiness.
Something You Should Know
A Paradox That Makes You Miserable & How We Amplify Our Own Stress
has anybody looked at going to services versus joining a bowling league or going to the moose lodge or something yeah so yes and no americans used to be members of all sorts of service organizations so when i was a kid uh my best friend's dad was a member of the lions club or elks or you know one of those clubs and lots of dads were lots of parents were
Something You Should Know
A Paradox That Makes You Miserable & How We Amplify Our Own Stress
Up until the 1950s, these service organizations were very popular and people went to them regularly and they socially interacted in those contexts because that was an important part of American civic life. But those service organizations have by and large disappeared. Most people don't even know these clubs anymore, much less do they join them.
Something You Should Know
A Paradox That Makes You Miserable & How We Amplify Our Own Stress
So things like social media and these other modern things have replaced them. The data suggests that it doesn't have to be services. There's nothing special about that. But there is something special about this regularly getting together in person, face to face with other people.
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A Paradox That Makes You Miserable & How We Amplify Our Own Stress
Yeah, therefore what? That's a great question. So for me, the what is, you need to understand the problem if you want to try to fix it. And for me, the problem is this. In the history of humanity, up until recently, I know it's 10,000 years, but up until recently, from an evolutionary perspective, all of us were hunter-gatherers. And hunter-gatherers lived very difficult lives.
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A Paradox That Makes You Miserable & How We Amplify Our Own Stress
the classic version of hunter-gathering is immediate return, which means that you eat today what you kill today. And those people don't even save for tomorrow. If you kill something, everybody eats it that night and chances are it's just gone. Every day they have to go out there and try again to find something to eat. So these are people who have no savings.
Something You Should Know
A Paradox That Makes You Miserable & How We Amplify Our Own Stress
They live in a pre-medical world where they buried 40% approximately of their children on average. So they lost lots of their own children before they ever came close to reaching adulthood. And their sources of entertainment were few and far between.
Something You Should Know
A Paradox That Makes You Miserable & How We Amplify Our Own Stress
They sat around and chatted with each other, invented a few games, but certainly didn't have television or didn't go skiing, didn't play golf, and all the things that we take for granted now that we enjoy. So they didn't have safety. They didn't have comfort. They didn't live in temperature-controlled homes. None of those things. And yet here's the remarkable fact.
Something You Should Know
A Paradox That Makes You Miserable & How We Amplify Our Own Stress
The data all suggests that they were happier than we are. So how could it be that somebody who has so little and who suffers so much could be happier than us who have so much and suffer so little? And I think the answer to that question comes in that their connections, they found a much better balance between autonomy and connection than we do now.
Something You Should Know
A Paradox That Makes You Miserable & How We Amplify Our Own Stress
So their connections were regular and everyday, and our connections just aren't anymore.
Something You Should Know
A Paradox That Makes You Miserable & How We Amplify Our Own Stress
Absolutely. You're absolutely right. In one sense, it's a very old problem. In another sense, it's actually a very recent problem as well. And so even as recently as the 1960s and 70s, People in cities tend to be quite close to their neighbors. Technology and wealth has made us much more independent of each other than we used to be. And so we're now much more autonomous agents.
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A Paradox That Makes You Miserable & How We Amplify Our Own Stress
We saw each other all the time. A milkman delivered milk to my door when I was a child. Nobody gets that anymore. There's a million ways in which we interacted with each other. even in the 60s and 70s, that we just don't do anymore. And so the problem is as old as agriculture, right? Well, not as old. The problem is since cities, really.
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A Paradox That Makes You Miserable & How We Amplify Our Own Stress
But in fact, the problem's gotten much worse in the last few generations. And so if we look at the 1970s, for example, we could see that about... 30% of people across the board, across the economic spectrum in the 1970s, about 30% of Americans got together with the neighbors two or three times a week. They're neighbors, not just other friends, but they're neighbors.
Something You Should Know
A Paradox That Makes You Miserable & How We Amplify Our Own Stress
And only about one in five, so one in three Americans got together with neighbors regularly every week, and one in five hardly ever got together with them at all. Now it's switched. In just 50 years, now only one in five Americans gets together regularly with their neighbors, and about a third of them almost never do at all.
Something You Should Know
A Paradox That Makes You Miserable & How We Amplify Our Own Stress
And that one in five is more likely to be people who are poor than people who are rich.
Something You Should Know
A Paradox That Makes You Miserable & How We Amplify Our Own Stress
Yeah, and that's, I believe, I don't know it, because nobody knows exactly why these cultural things happen. But the data suggests that this is a function of technology and wealth, that as you get wealthier and you get more technology, you start just separating from your neighbors. And so, like, for example, I was walking down the street the other day in a construction site.
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A Paradox That Makes You Miserable & How We Amplify Our Own Stress
I live in Australia now, so I'm in Brisbane. I'm walking by a construction site. And when I walk by construction sites when I was a kid in the 70s or 60s,
Something You Should Know
A Paradox That Makes You Miserable & How We Amplify Our Own Stress
everybody should it's if it's break time they're all schmoozing with each other having a good time laughing and telling stories now when i walk by them the guys are all sitting in a line they're next to each other but they're all ignoring each other looking at their phones and so that those tight connections that we had in a more in a world that was not as technology technologically based as it is now those tight connections are largely disappearing we we rarely walk into our neighbors homes anymore unless we live in the country
Something You Should Know
A Paradox That Makes You Miserable & How We Amplify Our Own Stress
They know everybody. No, there's a downside. They're in everybody's business. And so if you have an affair, it's going to go through the town really fast. But the upside is they're tightly connected. They are not surprised when somebody walks into their kitchen door and just sits down at the counter. Whereas that would boggle my mind if my neighbor did that.
Something You Should Know
A Paradox That Makes You Miserable & How We Amplify Our Own Stress
It is, but it's sort of understandable if autonomy is paramount, if you don't want people in your business, then you want your friendships to be elsewhere. You want your romantic relationships to be elsewhere, because if you start dating the person two houses down and it ends badly, you've got an awkward situation whenever you see them.
Something You Should Know
A Paradox That Makes You Miserable & How We Amplify Our Own Stress
If you are tight with your neighbors and then they expect things from you when you're busy and you don't want to deliver, you've got an awkward situation and you can avoid that awkwardness by just making sure your friends are elsewhere. And in a way, that's a good thing because it does give you more autonomy, but the cost is huge.
Something You Should Know
A Paradox That Makes You Miserable & How We Amplify Our Own Stress
If you make it a point not to know your neighbors, you're literally making it a point to disconnect yourself. And we know very clearly the data show that makes us unhappy.
Something You Should Know
A Paradox That Makes You Miserable & How We Amplify Our Own Stress
And so if you look at lottery winners, they're our best example of what happened. They typically end up less happier than they were before, even though we know that rich people are happier on average than poor people. And a big part of the reason they end up less happy than they were before is they sever a lot of their connections.
Something You Should Know
A Paradox That Makes You Miserable & How We Amplify Our Own Stress
Yeah, it's a super interesting societal change. And by the way, it's not universal. If you look at lots of countries in the world, people still get together with neighbors just like Americans did in the 50s and 60s and even into the 70s. It's just that in wealthier countries that are becoming more urban, we're seeing this very clearly.
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A Paradox That Makes You Miserable & How We Amplify Our Own Stress
But lots of parts of the world have the advantage that this isn't happening. They don't have this problem yet.
Something You Should Know
A Paradox That Makes You Miserable & How We Amplify Our Own Stress
That's a great question. I have to admit, I don't know. I've not been able to find those data, but it's a great question. And I suspect you're right.
Something You Should Know
A Paradox That Makes You Miserable & How We Amplify Our Own Stress
I suspect that even people who live at least in well-connected countries like the US and countries like the US that are very mobile, I suspect that even the smaller town folks on average are a little bit less connected to each other than they were 40, 50 years ago, despite the fact that they're way more connected than they are in cities.
Something You Should Know
A Paradox That Makes You Miserable & How We Amplify Our Own Stress
Lots of people think, well, okay, we're not getting together with our neighbors as much, but does that really matter? Because, you know, neighbor schmaber. I've got my wife and my close family members, but ironically, the data show, actually, it's not ironic. It's just a, it's...
Something You Should Know
A Paradox That Makes You Miserable & How We Amplify Our Own Stress
merely a fact that the data also show that we're not spending as much time with our spouses even anymore so we're literally moving away from everyone and we don't know why that is we don't know why people are getting more alone time we know that this isn't what we evolved to do we're a very gregarious species we're meant to be together but i suspect but don't know that part of what's happening is that there's so many sources of entertainment
Something You Should Know
A Paradox That Makes You Miserable & How We Amplify Our Own Stress
and work and opportunity that we, like let's say that my spouse and I both loved to exercise in the 1970s. We would, there's only a few ways to exercise. We would go run together, go to the gym together. Now there's 4,000 ways to exercise. And she says, I'd rather do Pilates. And I'm like, oh, I wanna do HIIT training. And so we just do what we each individually wanna do and go our separate ways.
Something You Should Know
A Paradox That Makes You Miserable & How We Amplify Our Own Stress
And so it's not just with people who are kind of peripheral in our lives. It's also with people who are the most important to us across the board. We're spending more alone time and it's just not a good thing.
Something You Should Know
A Paradox That Makes You Miserable & How We Amplify Our Own Stress
So the paradox is that the two most fundamental needs that humans evolved are the need for connection and the need for autonomy. And the need for connection comes from, both of these happened after we left the rainforest about 6 million years ago.
Something You Should Know
A Paradox That Makes You Miserable & How We Amplify Our Own Stress
So I can't tell you exactly when, of course, but somewhere in the ensuing few million years, as we moved to the Savannah, we evolved a strong need for connection because that's how we stayed safe. We cooperated with each other.
Something You Should Know
A Paradox That Makes You Miserable & How We Amplify Our Own Stress
we work together to drive away predators and then eventually to become the you know apex predator on the planet so connection is our most fundamental need but secondarily we also evolved a need for autonomy and by autonomy i mean self-governance choosing your own path in life now the problem is connection is all about cooperating and friendship and relationships
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A Paradox That Makes You Miserable & How We Amplify Our Own Stress
And that means putting your own needs aside sometimes. Whereas autonomy is all about self-governance and what suits you the best, which means sometimes you have to put your relationships aside. So the consequence is that these two needs, our two most fundamental needs, are in permanent tension with each other. And the key is finding a balance that allows us to be happy. That's the social paradox.
Something You Should Know
A Paradox That Makes You Miserable & How We Amplify Our Own Stress
Sure. So let's talk about rich people versus poor people. And we can talk about, there's a million examples. So you tell me anything that's interesting to you, we could go in that direction. But here's a classic example. Poor people need each other. They live in these dense networks of interdependence because they're barely getting by.
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A Paradox That Makes You Miserable & How We Amplify Our Own Stress
And so if they want someone to house sit their dog, they can't afford to hire it out. They have to ask friends to do that. If they need a new tool because theirs broke or they don't have the right one, they have to borrow one. They can't just go to the shops and buy one.
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A Paradox That Makes You Miserable & How We Amplify Our Own Stress
And so poor people are densely interconnected with each other, and they tend to get together with their neighbors several times a week on average. Rich people, in contrast, are not interconnected with each other. They don't need each other at all. Rich people often don't even know their neighbors. And if they run out of their favorite coffee beans, they can drone a latte in.
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A Paradox That Makes You Miserable & How We Amplify Our Own Stress
They don't need to go over to their neighbors and borrow it and create a conversation, et cetera. And so the consequence is that rich people keep making decisions in their life about what suits them the best.
Something You Should Know
A Paradox That Makes You Miserable & How We Amplify Our Own Stress
And in making these decisions, they're continually cutting off connections such that in the end, poor people actually spend much more time with their friends than rich people do, which if you think about it, it's ironic given that The point of being rich really would be to have total freedom, which you ought to use for social connection. Now, how do we know this?
Something You Should Know
A Paradox That Makes You Miserable & How We Amplify Our Own Stress
There's a bunch of evidence for rich people spending less time with their friends. But you could say, well, that's what they want to do, right? I mean, people are voting with their feet. They know what's best for them. But actually, the data suggests otherwise. And I'll give you one key data point.
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A Paradox That Makes You Miserable & How We Amplify Our Own Stress
if you um if you look at how often people attend religious services so now we've got something that you do if you believe in god but of course you don't do if you don't believe in god or don't believe that god wants you to attend services so people tend to attend services for reasons not to do with their social goals but reasons to do with their religious goals and what we find is that attending services has a huge impact on happiness it makes people much happier if they go to religious services a few times a week than if they only go
Something You Should Know
A Paradox That Makes You Miserable & How We Amplify Our Own Stress
you know once a week or even once every few months more importantly however the effect of attending religious services on happiness is greater for rich people than it is for poor rich people get more bang for the buck out of going to services than poor people do because they've cut themselves off from their other connections and so in countless different domains wealth is just one of them we tend to cut off our connections when in fact those are what make us happy and do
Something You Should Know
A Paradox That Makes You Miserable & How We Amplify Our Own Stress
No, they don't know. The irony is that, and we can come back to talking about why this is if you'd like, but the irony is that we've evolved to continually grab autonomy whenever we have the chance to do so. And so every individual decision that the rich person is making makes perfect sense. It's what makes them happier in the moment, but the long-term cost is huge.
Something You Should Know
A Paradox That Makes You Miserable & How We Amplify Our Own Stress
It makes them way less happier in the longer term. We see this in countless domains. It's not just rich and poor. So for example, in 1840, about 10% of humanity lived in cities. Cities are about 5,000 years old. That's when the first proper city existed, 5,000 years ago in Mesopotamia. And so, you know, it took in 5,000 years, slowly 10% of humanity, all of the world moved to cities.
Something You Should Know
A Paradox That Makes You Miserable & How We Amplify Our Own Stress
Well, in 1840, Americans started moving to cities en masse. And by 1900, the rest of the world started moving to cities en masse. such that by 2007, half of the world lived in cities. So we're now in a world where more than half of humans live in cities, whereas just 150 or so years ago, only 10% lived in cities.
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A Paradox That Makes You Miserable & How We Amplify Our Own Stress
Now, given that half of all of humanity's moved to cities, you'd say, oh, well, cities must make you happy, right? Cities certainly provide autonomy. They give us opportunities. They allow us to make our own choices in a much bigger way than the country does. But ironically, they actually make us less happy.
Something You Should Know
A Paradox That Makes You Miserable & How We Amplify Our Own Stress
People who live in the country are happier than people who live in the city, even though all of humanity is moving to cities.
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A Paradox That Makes You Miserable & How We Amplify Our Own Stress
Yeah, that's a great question. It turns out somewhere in the middle is a perfect way to describe that. People in the suburbs are somewhere in the middle with regard to their happiness. They're somewhere in the middle with regard to most of these things. Now, if you look at, you know, why would people in cities be happier?
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A Paradox That Makes You Miserable & How We Amplify Our Own Stress
In principle, there's more opportunity for connection in cities than there is in countries because, you know, in cities, you're cheek by jowl with a gazillion other people. Whereas if you live in the country, your nearest neighbor could be a quarter mile away.
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A Paradox That Makes You Miserable & How We Amplify Our Own Stress
Well, it turns out that if you ask people in the country and in the city and in the suburbs, do you know somebody who you trust with your house keys? Like in other words, do you have a really close friend who you can really count on? People in the country are most likely to say yes, then the suburbs, then the cities.
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A Paradox That Makes You Miserable & How We Amplify Our Own Stress
Yeah, they would do that. And the sad truth is they shouldn't, but they would. And so if you look at lottery winners, they're our best example of what happens, right? There's somebody who was just meandering through life and then suddenly an outside force, random chance, gave them a million dollars or more.
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A Paradox That Makes You Miserable & How We Amplify Our Own Stress
And when that happens, they typically end up less happier than they were before, even though we know that rich people are happier on average than poor people. A big part of the reason they end up less happy than they were before is they sever a lot of their connections. Let's say that I used to be a roofer.
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A Paradox That Makes You Miserable & How We Amplify Our Own Stress
I'm out on the hot roof every day with my fellow roofers putting on shingles and things like that. Now I win millions of dollars. Why would I want to go out in that terrible weather on top of somebody's roof when I don't have to? Well, what I forget is that all my friends do that. I'm tightly connected to those people.
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A Paradox That Makes You Miserable & How We Amplify Our Own Stress
And so they make decision after decision about what they want to do right now without stepping back and thinking about, well, what's the actual long-term cost to my connections? With the end result that they typically, even though money makes us happy, they typically end up less happy or certainly no more happy than prior to winning gazillions of dollars.
Something You Should Know
A Paradox That Makes You Miserable & How We Amplify Our Own Stress
Yes, so there's competing forces here. And so let me put it in context. So first of all... A big part of what makes human beings happy is status. And it's too bad, but we've evolved to want to always be at the top of our heap because that's our best chance of getting someone to choose us as a mate, getting somebody to want us to be on their team, to be our friend, et cetera.
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A Paradox That Makes You Miserable & How We Amplify Our Own Stress
And so when we look at rich people being happier than poor people, it's not money per se that makes them happy. It's the status that comes with it. And so if we look, for example, in the United States over the last 70 years, we can see that Americans now are about three times richer in real terms than they used to be.
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They're three times more purchasing power and arguably five to 10 times if you measure it, taking into account some of the modern conveniences like computers and things. But And so in principle, that should make us happier because we've gotten a lot richer, but it doesn't. Life satisfaction on average in America, happiness is exactly where it's been for the last 70 years.
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A Paradox That Makes You Miserable & How We Amplify Our Own Stress
But what does happen is at any one point in time, rich people tend to be happier than poor people. Now, the effect isn't huge, but the effect is clearly there. And so then you'd say, well, wait a minute, but you're saying that poor people have better connections. They do. And so we can look at it in a variety of ways and we can see cases where you can undo that.
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A Paradox That Makes You Miserable & How We Amplify Our Own Stress
So let's take, for example, poor people who attend services. A poor person, rich people are happier than poor people, but a poor person who attends religious services regularly is happier than a rich person who never goes.
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A Paradox That Makes You Miserable & How We Amplify Our Own Stress
So the social effects of going to church regularly, even for somebody who has pretty good connections because they're tied in tightly with their neighborhood, that those social connections they gain are more important than all the wealth that the rich person has.
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A Paradox That Makes You Miserable & How We Amplify Our Own Stress
Well, we know that it's not simply the act of believing in God because we can pull that apart by looking at, well, what happens among people who never go to services but pray or don't pray? And that's a really good way of looking at people who believe versus who don't believe.
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A Paradox That Makes You Miserable & How We Amplify Our Own Stress
And we know believing is important because lots of people who don't believe in God feel that life is meaningless and they're struggling and they feel kind of lost. Now, not everybody feels that way, but lots do. People who have religion hardly ever feel that way. They feel that life has meaning and purpose and that religion provides them that meaning and purpose.
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A Paradox That Makes You Miserable & How We Amplify Our Own Stress
So the mere act of prayer, we can, you know, knowing therefore evidence that you believe, we can see it makes people happier. But it doesn't have nearly the effect of going to services.