Will Sommer
Appearances
The Bulwark Podcast
Will Sommer: Across the MAGA-Verse
But at the same time, I think that's why there's such value in kind of keeping up with these characters.
The Bulwark Podcast
Will Sommer: Across the MAGA-Verse
Yeah, so this is an unusually controversial choice, I guess, for a fast food stop. Yeah, so last week, Steak and Shake tried to rebrand as the sort of like anti-woke fast food chain. They put up some stuff with like kind of suspiciously kind of like Nazi type font, like a lot of like Gothic font.
The Bulwark Podcast
Will Sommer: Across the MAGA-Verse
about their burgers and they said well we're going to start doing our fries only in beef tallow and so the there's sort of like this paranoia about seed oils so like canola oil other oils this idea that they're like introducing some sort of like impurities into your body this is very big on the right they call them the sinister oils they call the hateful eight so it's like you know it's good they're not getting over dramatic about it but the hateful eight oils yes
The Bulwark Podcast
Will Sommer: Across the MAGA-Verse
Yeah, so it's like the eat the oils. It's like canola oil, peanut oil.
The Bulwark Podcast
Will Sommer: Across the MAGA-Verse
I was curious about this actually. The olive oil is safe, I guess. Okay. So that's all good. And so they say what instead they want to cook things in is beef tallow, so beef fat. Now, when Steak and Shake said, well, we're doing beef tallow, people said, oh my gosh, this is amazing. But then some of these like Maha influencers, this woman named Alex Clark said –
The Bulwark Podcast
Will Sommer: Across the MAGA-Verse
Well, actually, no, it's pre their fries are pretreated in seed oil, which seems to and I mean, this is getting to the point trying to figure this out that I need to go to a steak and shake and just go in the kitchen because I asked steak and shake about this and they didn't get back to me. But they said to Alex Clark, they said, well. Supply chains are hard. They basically said, you're right.
The Bulwark Podcast
Will Sommer: Across the MAGA-Verse
They said, well, who's to say, you know, we're trying to get the beef tallow in. Another guy, a Maha guy, showed up at a steak and shake and said, I want to see the beef tallow. And they said, well, here's a picture on our cell phone of what it looks like. It's very like citizen journalists. Like, you know, they're trying to figure it out.
The Bulwark Podcast
Will Sommer: Across the MAGA-Verse
Well, you know, they really hate soy. I mean, soy is probably the most hateful, right? Because that's why they call you soy boys. They think it's feminizing and all that. Yeah.
The Bulwark Podcast
Will Sommer: Across the MAGA-Verse
You know, it's a good question. I mean, there is this this tension, where they say, Oh, yeah, you know, it is time we get America healthy again, and all this. But I mean, you think back to Michelle Obama's, you know, let's get moving. Let's give kids like a piece of lettuce, exactly for lunch.
The Bulwark Podcast
Will Sommer: Across the MAGA-Verse
And just the huge reaction and the idea that, you know, we're going to tell all these gigantic food conglomerates that, you know, back the Republican Party to, you know, suddenly get into, you know, ditch the hateful hate, etc. I mean, just seems very slim. And so, But for now, I mean, I don't know. It seems like RFK is probably skeptical enough of vaccines and all that.
The Bulwark Podcast
Will Sommer: Across the MAGA-Verse
So there's this whole demand for disclosure and like, we're going to get the documents. Yeah. In the Seth Rich case, there's a lawyer who's been suing for several years now to get the FBI files on Seth Rich, who, of course, was murdered in 2016, a Democratic staffer.
The Bulwark Podcast
Will Sommer: Across the MAGA-Verse
Yeah, so right. And the key to that would be that if you proved, I mean, there's no evidence, but if you proved that Seth Rich leaked the DNC emails to WikiLeaks, then that would mean the Russia hack was fake. And so Trump would be exonerated. And so that's kind of like why they pursued it. So this guy has been pushing for these documents forever.
The Bulwark Podcast
Will Sommer: Across the MAGA-Verse
Yeah, I mean, well, you know, I grew up as like a young teen Republican in Texas. I mean, I was like obsessed with like Bill O'Reilly and Ayn Rand and all this stuff. And I, you know, I would stay up late listening to talk radio. And it really sticks out to me. I was like in eighth grade listening to Michael Savage.
The Bulwark Podcast
Will Sommer: Across the MAGA-Verse
I suspect the documents are just, you know, the D.C. police saying, yeah, we think it was a botched robbery and that's it. But now that the FBI has continued to withhold the documents and said, well, maybe we'll give you a list of the documents. So now that we see these pro Trump influencers saying, you know, Pam Bondi, God darn it, you got to release this stuff. And let's say she does release it.
The Bulwark Podcast
Will Sommer: Across the MAGA-Verse
They're still going to be mad because there's not a document that says Hillary Clinton. Here's a picture of Hillary Clinton shooting Seth Rich. And so that's going to keep going. And I think she's I mean, it depends how much Trump cares about this stuff. Probably not hugely, but I do think she's really being set up to take the fall for a lot of these conspiracy theories not coming true.
The Bulwark Podcast
Will Sommer: Across the MAGA-Verse
There's this real focus on they imagine that there's this huge client list that's going to be, you know, Oprah, Tom Hanks and whoever. I mean, it's be very vindicating. But on the other hand, as you said, I mean, Julie Brown, who knows this better than anybody and other Epstein reporters have said there isn't really a client list.
The Bulwark Podcast
Will Sommer: Across the MAGA-Verse
And he was like, we just got to nuke China, just nuke those dams and flood the whole country. And I thought, man, if this is what like one of the main voices in the party wants here, you know, in the right wing media.
The Bulwark Podcast
Will Sommer: Across the MAGA-Verse
The names have been redacted to mostly victims or people who weren't really involved, but just who come up in the documents. Nevertheless, I mean, Pam Bondi was kind of ramping this up. She said, I've got the list on my desk. We've just got to review it. And so then a few days later, all these influencers, these MAGA people come to the White House for an unrelated meeting.
The Bulwark Podcast
Will Sommer: Across the MAGA-Verse
And according to ABC's reporting, Pam Bondi then said, we'll surprise them with the Epstein documents. And so she and Cash showed up and said, like, hey, we got them. And then as we know, it turned out to be nearly entirely previously released files. But it still occasioned this kind of like...
The Bulwark Podcast
Will Sommer: Across the MAGA-Verse
In retrospect, kind of sick, the photo op, everyone's like, look, we got evidence of the child trafficking. Yeah, there was a smiling. Yeah, very happy about it. Because they say that they were sending the message to the press. They were taking pictures of them like, we're the media now.
The Bulwark Podcast
Will Sommer: Across the MAGA-Verse
I feel like there's this disconnect between the voters and what the politicians are doing, which is, you know, like cutting Social Security, trying to balance the budget, stuff like that. And ultimately, we saw that that contradiction resolved by Trump, who, you know, is giving the voters all these kind of atomistic or giving into their urges.
The Bulwark Podcast
Will Sommer: Across the MAGA-Verse
Yeah, and in this case, these are even more sensitive documents. Let's make sure they're treated with, you know, the discretion and the respect, you know, that this issue deserves. Right, think about the victims, right, on respect, right? Yeah, instead of a, it's sort of a party favor for visiting the White House.
The Bulwark Podcast
Will Sommer: Across the MAGA-Verse
And so instead, we get, we have Mike Cernovich and Jack Posobiec, who are kind of like notorious Pizzagate promoters. and sort of right-wing media characters. I guess when it comes to the credibility of their claims, perhaps I would not give them the Epstein documents. We have a woman named Jessica Reed Krause, who I think, you know, put a pin in that.
The Bulwark Podcast
Will Sommer: Across the MAGA-Verse
I think she's going to become like, this is one to watch. So she's a, yes. And so she's called House Inhabit on Instagram. And she kind of emerged. She was kind of like a lifestyle blogger in Orange County. And then she got really RFK-pilled and then kind of became part of his entourage and had kind of like a feud with Olivia Nuzzi over RFK and all this stuff. And so she got one.
The Bulwark Podcast
Will Sommer: Across the MAGA-Verse
And now she's kind of like a citizen sleuth. But this sort of backfired because the influencers who weren't invited, like Laura Loomer, then start digging up things on the ones who were to prove that they're deep state shills. And that's why we didn't get the real news. And they found this picture of Krauss once wearing a Free Galane Maxwell shirt. This is the House and Habit lady from Instagram?
The Bulwark Podcast
Will Sommer: Across the MAGA-Verse
Yes. And so I don't know the situation where you ever think that's a good idea. You know, she said at the time, she was like, look at my provocative shirt, which it certainly is. DC Drano was also there. Yeah, DC Drano, Chad Prather, who are kind of like MAGA meme lords. This is kind of like the equivalent of like Carpe Donctum, if people remember him.
The Bulwark Podcast
Will Sommer: Across the MAGA-Verse
People who make funny little video edits or memes.
The Bulwark Podcast
Will Sommer: Across the MAGA-Verse
And so, yeah, I mean, I think it is ominous for me to be keeping up with this stuff so closely and then think, well, geez, you know, it seems like Trump is really willing to do a lot of things for the base. And so what is he going to do next?
The Bulwark Podcast
Will Sommer: Across the MAGA-Verse
Yeah, I mean, there's sort of like a criminology to it. And so you can see like, it's like, oh, well, everyone is turning on, for example, after this debacle on Pam Bondi. And so that seems to be reflecting some anger within the administration or the idea that she's been set up as the scapegoat.
The Bulwark Podcast
Will Sommer: Across the MAGA-Verse
One of these Twitter accounts that obviously have the verified thing, and it's just like, you know, FBI real news. Last week, they reported, or I should say loosely reported, oh, Cash wants private bodyguards. He's concerned about his security. That's the kind of thing that obviously I discounted. It got 10,000 retweets. And then last night, some real news outlets tweeted that. There you go.
The Bulwark Podcast
Will Sommer: Across the MAGA-Verse
Yeah, well, within hours of this, the binder debacle, she sent him a letter saying, you know, cash... Ooh, you held back the good documents. And then they sort of seem to have triangulated on like, well, let's blame SDNY and the FBI office there because maybe we want to purge them anyway.
The Bulwark Podcast
Will Sommer: Across the MAGA-Verse
Yeah, I mean, there's definitely this back and forth where then he says, well, you know, I gave you the documents. Now, there's supposedly more documents to come. I mean, but this is sort of going to be a fruitless journey, but one that I think continues going on with that, the JFK files, all these sort of files.
The Bulwark Podcast
Will Sommer: Across the MAGA-Verse
Yeah, certainly. I think these kind of scandals are the idea of many scandals, perhaps the idea that like if it just becomes reflexively like, oh, you know, she's a rhino. Right.
The Bulwark Podcast
Will Sommer: Across the MAGA-Verse
Like, as you know, I mean, that is kind of like once you get hit with that, then every time anything goes bad in the Justice Department or they don't indict, you know, some random Democratic member of Congress they don't like, they're going to say, you know, this is because Pam Bondi is running interference for them. And once you get hit with that, it's kind of hard to get back in their good side.
The Bulwark Podcast
Will Sommer: Across the MAGA-Verse
And, you know, certainly not something like not enforcing the Foreign Corrupt Practices Act. They don't care about that.
The Bulwark Podcast
Will Sommer: Across the MAGA-Verse
It went on for a few more years. And then I was working for this state senate primary campaign in Texas. And Dan Patrick, who is now the lieutenant governor, he won and he beat my candidate. And I thought, well, that guy's like a total lunatic. If this is what you want in a landslide.
The Bulwark Podcast
Will Sommer: Across the MAGA-Verse
Yeah, I mean, the Tate thing is, I think, so fascinating. When the Tates were first under investigation for human trafficking a few years ago, it was striking to me how few ties they did have to the MAGA movement at the time. I mean, they were living in Britain and then Romania. They went to the Trump Hotel with kind of some right wing influencers. But other than that, they weren't huge figures.
The Bulwark Podcast
Will Sommer: Across the MAGA-Verse
It's only after, I mean, you would think that this would have been the fall of the human trafficking investigation, but they actually become stars since then. And so this idea that the US pressured Romania to let them travel, and then, you know, once they're here, and particularly, if they get on a plane to Dubai or something, I mean, they're going to escape justice.
The Bulwark Podcast
Will Sommer: Across the MAGA-Verse
I mean, they're also wanted in the UK. And so you have this interesting divide where I think kind of more your classic conservative types, Ron DeSantis, the Ben Shapiro crew, etc. They, I think, understandably do not think conservatives should embrace alleged human traffickers. People who are on video, I mean, it's not even an allegation.
The Bulwark Podcast
Will Sommer: Across the MAGA-Verse
I mean, they said all this stuff about sort of entrapping women into being cam operations and all this kind of stuff. Andrew Tate is wanted on rape charges in the U.K., And then you have kind of the more, you know, whatever will get me clicks or the more Trumpian types who are more than happy to host them on their podcasts. As you said, Dana White embraced them.
The Bulwark Podcast
Will Sommer: Across the MAGA-Verse
It was striking to me that not really a Trump figure, but someone from Vanderpump Rules also took pictures with them. And then he said, oh, my gosh, I didn't know who those guys were. You know, I denounced them. Mario Lopez did. Slater. Yeah, exactly. What's up, Slater?
The Bulwark Podcast
Will Sommer: Across the MAGA-Verse
It's really – it's interesting also to have this kind of focus on Epstein and human trafficking. That's the worst thing you can do. But then also say, oh, come on in, Andrew Tate.
The Bulwark Podcast
Will Sommer: Across the MAGA-Verse
And I thought if this is that was kind of like my crisis moment with the GOP, where I thought, if this is what the voters want, I mean, that's not what I want, you know, and so I think I have to go go another direction.
The Bulwark Podcast
Will Sommer: Across the MAGA-Verse
fascinating guy i don't think he has any experience as a prosecutor no i was previously aware of him because uh phyllis schlafly sort of the anti-feminist icon who died maybe a decade ago or so he was kind of like her chief crony and there was this big flap over like control of her legacy and so i was familiar with he got this memo that was just like here's how we wrest the control of phyllis schlafly's image away and i'm going from memory is it not true wasn't he i
The Bulwark Podcast
Will Sommer: Across the MAGA-Verse
I think that's exactly – yeah, I can't remember the disposition of the other children, but it was like they went with sort of even like a more kind of aggressive name. It was sort of a more aggressive like MAGA-type brand. And so there was that. And then when he got appointed, I was like, wait, like the Phyllis Schlafly guy? Because I think I talked to him at the time when I was writing about it.
The Bulwark Podcast
Will Sommer: Across the MAGA-Verse
And U.S. Attorney is also a uniquely important role in D.C. because it also prosecutes sort of street crime and drugs and gun stuff, unlike other jurisdictions. And so I thought, oh, geez, I thought there was supposed to be this like we were going to take crime in D.C. really seriously. I thought that was part of the administration's job. But instead, we get him.
The Bulwark Podcast
Will Sommer: Across the MAGA-Verse
This is the guy who's posting the letters. People may have seen Elon. I heard that they're coming after Doge. You know, I'm working on the president's behalf. I think he described himself as Trump's lawyer in one case. And so it's kind of a clown show so far.
The Bulwark Podcast
Will Sommer: Across the MAGA-Verse
Yeah. I mean, this is the same prosecutor who sent the letter to, I believe Chuck Schumer and another member of Congress for saying, you know, say something like you got to bring a, don't bring a knife to a gunfight, like these kinds of like rhetorical gambits and saying, you know, were you threatening to kill someone? Yes, it was.
The Bulwark Podcast
Will Sommer: Across the MAGA-Verse
Well, I mean, you know, it's important to have your priorities straight. You know, get those referral codes out, all that kind of stuff. Yeah, I mean, Dan Bongino is a guy I became aware of just sort of like driving around D.C. and listening to the local talk radio. And this was like a local talk radio guy, I mean, 13 years ago, 14 years ago.
The Bulwark Podcast
Will Sommer: Across the MAGA-Verse
And he was a former Secret Service agent, and he would call in and say – you know, oh, Obama's a scumbag. And then he had this kind of failed run for the Senate in Maryland. And I thought that was the last we would hear of him. And then I said, oh, you got to talk radio show. And he filled the Rush Limbaugh time slot for a lot of people. And now he's going to be the FBI deputy director.
The Bulwark Podcast
Will Sommer: Across the MAGA-Verse
And as you said, I mean, this is traditionally sort of a grizzled old hand, sort of someone who's in a way sort of represents the line agents. And instead, we are getting a guy who's never been in the FBI, and obviously is most recently a podcaster.
The Bulwark Podcast
Will Sommer: Across the MAGA-Verse
You could pick up a couple tips. I mean, you're right. I mean, there is, you know, for those of us who consume this content, but don't share their politics. I think we can tell when there's a, you know, someone who is a gifted broadcasters entertaining or, or you kind of figure out what niche they're fitting into. Sure. Versus Dan Bongino.
The Bulwark Podcast
Will Sommer: Across the MAGA-Verse
And that's why I was surprised when a lot of stations picked him up to replace Limbaugh.
The Bulwark Podcast
Will Sommer: Across the MAGA-Verse
because i thought limbaugh was was a fun guy to listen to whereas i mean dan bongino's kind of there's kind of like a classic like replacement level talker type who's just like a mad guy kind of like mark levin and you listen to these guys and it's like this guy's just mad about it you know and like canady too where you know he's just giving you the talking points there's not like a lightness to it but i agree i i'm not a huge listener
The Bulwark Podcast
Will Sommer: Across the MAGA-Verse
It's sort of a community of, obviously, it's sort of the MAGA universe. It's a world that's not short on people who are mad. And so I think it's kind of funny when someone stands out for being mad. I mean, he sent my colleague at the post an email that was, you know, oh, you dipshit, all this stuff. So, you know, there are certain guys who are just like, I'm mad.
The Bulwark Podcast
Will Sommer: Across the MAGA-Verse
I mean, it kind of seems like Cash is going to be the next Attorney General, right? And he already runs the ATF. Yeah, right. I think it makes a little more sense because initially it was like, wow, it's a real reach for Cash to be the FBI director. But now you say, well, he's already been the FBI director. How far is Attorney General?
The Bulwark Podcast
Will Sommer: Across the MAGA-Verse
So I do think, Pam Bondi, I think you can tell that she's not as adept in this world of right-wing influencers.
The Bulwark Podcast
Will Sommer: Across the MAGA-Verse
all these people are from florida and so there was this claim that after the binders thing happened just briefly that that basically she gave them these binders to butter them up because she knows she has this deficit with you know these kind of fame ball types and you know what she's right because they threw her under the bus immediately
The Bulwark Podcast
Will Sommer: Across the MAGA-Verse
I don't know a ton about it, but it is sort of another, it's just like another like really weird thing.
The Bulwark Podcast
Will Sommer: Across the MAGA-Verse
Yeah, I mean, Gorka, as you said, at this point, it's like, oh, thank gosh, the adults are in the room. Right. Gorka's here. And that's how I felt, you know, amid everything else. I mean, Gorka is another, it's good to do him after Bongino because Gorka is like another like classic mad guy, but in kind of like a more gentlemanly way, an old world sensibility.
The Bulwark Podcast
Will Sommer: Across the MAGA-Verse
You know, obviously we know he has, in the last administration, there were all these questions about his ties to kind of like quasi-Nazi European groups and did he get a medal from one of them or what have you. But these days, you know, he too was in talk radio. I mean, it's a sign, I think, you know, we're talking about the second administration versus the first Trump administration.
The Bulwark Podcast
Will Sommer: Across the MAGA-Verse
of how things have changed that in the past, you know, five years or so, I think Gorka has kind of presented himself as like somewhat of a voice of reason. I mean, he had this like really long running feud with QAnon people where he was like, you're not cases and this kind of stuff. I mean, so it's still, I would say disturbing.
The Bulwark Podcast
Will Sommer: Across the MAGA-Verse
Yeah, I sent him a very nice email. I think maybe it was a story about his feud with QAnon, and I sent him an email. And then a few hours later, I was just sitting around, and he called me. And I'd never talked to him before, and he said...
The Bulwark Podcast
Will Sommer: Across the MAGA-Verse
it is will summer and i said yeah and he said stick your head in a bucket full of eels and i was just i was so shocked that i had to have him i said can you say that again like i need to get that quote down and he said stick your head in a bucket full of eels and i thought really nothing of it i said okay well that's a little weird and then he played it on his show and he played it as sort of like kind of a crank yanker situation where he sort of said i i had a clever little call so it's he's an unusual guy it's the counter-terrorism chief of america
The Bulwark Podcast
Will Sommer: Across the MAGA-Verse
Well, no, I think there's a lot to that. I mean, you think about Trump's interview on Joe Rogan where people said, oh, he just came off like a normal guy. I thought he'd be kind of foaming at the mouth or doing Hitler salutes or what have you.
The Bulwark Podcast
Will Sommer: Across the MAGA-Verse
Yeah, I mean, just just jumping off the 1789 thing. I mean, it is fascinating that we just have these situations and where, you know, people with connections to the administration or with the ability to sway the president are just sort of really have their pockets. They're saying, hey, you know, come on through if you want to butter up to me, you know, donate to my VC fund.
The Bulwark Podcast
Will Sommer: Across the MAGA-Verse
And so you have to kind of, as you said, you have to kind of build up, as I do, I mean, build up kind of files on these people and build up kind of like what they're – that's why I'm so fascinated by kind of the feuds and kind of these inflection moments where people really have to sort of reveal themselves. Yeah.
The Bulwark Podcast
Will Sommer: Across the MAGA-Verse
The Bloomberg article is interesting. Basically, I guess the pitch is that this is kind of the anti-ESG, this is the anti-woke capital situation. But I think in practice, as you said, it's interesting that there are companies having these massive funding rounds, and then also Don Jr. is coming. In terms of the crypto stuff... I follow like crypto world relatively closely.
The Bulwark Podcast
Will Sommer: Across the MAGA-Verse
I think it's been interesting that in some ways it seems like the main, like real, like real heavy bag holders, as they say, are getting frustrated that, that Trump seems to have been like captured by what you might call shit coins. Like when he announced the Bitcoin reserve or the crypto reserve and he said, look, we're going to have Bitcoin and we're going to have ADA and soul and Luna.
The Bulwark Podcast
Will Sommer: Across the MAGA-Verse
I mean, or these various kind of minor coins that made people concerned. I think that he was just trying to, to pump the bags, to,
The Bulwark Podcast
Will Sommer: Across the MAGA-Verse
Yeah, no, I agree. I mean, they think they are. I mean, they obviously realize I think this administration is friendlier to crypto than than any Democrat would be.
The Bulwark Podcast
Will Sommer: Across the MAGA-Verse
I just think it's interesting that like this, this frustration they're having that basically it's like they were kind of playing like three card Monty or something. And then Trump came and set up a way bigger table to do his own three card Monty. But he's doing it a lot clumsier. So people are like, wait a minute, I can see this is a con. You know, they're like, hey, cut it out, Trump.
The Bulwark Podcast
Will Sommer: Across the MAGA-Verse
Yeah, I mean, she's been around the administration for a while. I think the previous administration. I mean, she's kind of like a just a sort of one of these charismatic ministers. I looked her up. She every every couple of years she gets like a big viral viral clip where like she was saying, you know, she's trying to get Trump reelected.
The Bulwark Podcast
Will Sommer: Across the MAGA-Verse
And then she just said and strike and strike and strike for like about a minute. But I guess it worked.
The Bulwark Podcast
Will Sommer: Across the MAGA-Verse
That sigh. That really crisp mic for the sigh there.
The Bulwark Podcast
Will Sommer: Across the MAGA-Verse
Well, it's interesting to see, as you pointed out, Larry Kudlow is not really grilling Elon. He's just saying, how do you do such an amazing job saving the country and running all these businesses? And Elon goes, oh my God, I don't know. It's not going well. It's remarkable. It's just crazy to think about the Tesla brand, even just since this administration started.
The Bulwark Podcast
Will Sommer: Across the MAGA-Verse
In December, I had a family member who was like, well, kind of California Democrat. Well, maybe I'll buy a Tesla. I don't love Elon. But now, the idea of buying a Tesla just seems crazy, I think, for liberals, at least. Yeah.
The Bulwark Podcast
Will Sommer: Across the MAGA-Verse
It is striking. I mean, I feel like we're so just through the looking glass, but the idea of the president being like, look, my buddy's company is in trouble. You got to go buy, buy, buy. Yeah, I mean, I think you're right. I mean, there are... It strikes me as a sort of a weak point, a weak moment for Elon.
The Bulwark Podcast
Will Sommer: Across the MAGA-Verse
A lot of these agencies previously did not have heads or people were kind of the cabinet heads were just getting in control of them. Now we're starting to see, obviously, the Times reported on the Sean Duffy Elon fight. And I think there's a lot more of that, like, all right, buddy, like back off. Stop sending your the 12 year olds into my office to fire everyone.
The Bulwark Podcast
Will Sommer: Across the MAGA-Verse
I think there's this kind of classic challenge between what you describe as the Bannonite wing, perhaps, and their main focus is immigration, deporting people, building the wall, sort of, I think, Russia tilting foreign policy as secondary. But they don't really care that much about the budget.
The Bulwark Podcast
Will Sommer: Across the MAGA-Verse
And so they don't care about these kind of hack and slash things that they know are going to just anger people and get them kicked out of office or lose control of Congress quicker. And so that's kind of the fracture point.
The Bulwark Podcast
Will Sommer: Across the MAGA-Verse
Yeah, I think that's right. I mean, I think they're missing the or there's a sense of like, that's why USAID made such a tasty target for that, because it's like, you know, it's these these liberal pencil necks who are helping people in other countries.
The Bulwark Podcast
Will Sommer: Across the MAGA-Verse
It is surprising to me that the VA has been such an immediate target because, you know, you would think of that as something you wouldn't really hit to avoid alienating Trump voters. The other thing about Bannon is, like, I think it's important to keep in mind how much of his agita towards tech people is motivated by his belief that we're going to become robots, essentially.
The Bulwark Podcast
Will Sommer: Across the MAGA-Verse
I think a lot of people underscore, like, he has a singularity correspondent, a guy who comes on the show every couple weeks. And the singularity being, by the way, the moment our consciousnesses are uploaded into the matrix, essentially, we all become robots. And so, I mean, this is like a very pressing issue to him. On the other hand, Elon is implanting chips in people's brains.
The Bulwark Podcast
Will Sommer: Across the MAGA-Verse
So he's really on the, they're on the opposite sides of like, do we become cyborgs? And for both of them, they see this as like a very, like very relevant issue.
The Bulwark Podcast
Will Sommer: Across the MAGA-Verse
Yeah, I mean, it's difficult to imagine. I feel like sort of every step on the road, and I'm sure a lot of people feel like this, is that every step is like, wow, I never would have thought it would have come to this.
The Bulwark Podcast
Will Sommer: Across the MAGA-Verse
The idea that we're at the point where Dan Bongino getting appointed to the FBI or Kash Patel even to head the FBI, I think it's like, oh, Kash Patel, the recurring Steve Bannon guest? And it's like, oh, of course, now that that's such a common thing. I mean, it's a lot to grapple with, and I think it sort of alarmingly raises questions about what's going to happen in two or three years from now.