W. Kamau Bell

Do they keep stats? I don't know why we would keep stats because they're reproducing quite quickly. But it's like my kid goes to a school where it's like 50% kids of color, but most of those kids are mixed. Got it. It's funny, it's like, oh, it's a lot of people of color. And you're like, oh, but there's not one, there's not that many regular black people. They're just, yeah.

Yeah, exactly.

Yeah, and also I think it comes down to my parents are also just very different types of people. From each other or from you? From each other.

The way I describe it is my mom is sort of an outside agitator. She's like, oh, you won't let me do this? I'm going to go outside and throw stones.

My dad is more like, yeah, my dad is MLK. He's like, let's go work with him. Let's figure it out. And so he's like... like an achiever, like if you look at his resume, he's achieved a lot. A lot of it happened actually after I was sort of more grown up, so people think I grew up with him this way, but he was like, When I was born, he was like a semi-professional photographer and like poet.

So it actually sort of starts to go like, oh, she needs to be around regular black people.

And now he's like, he was like an insurance guy and did a lot of, was very successful in the insurance industry. Whereas my mom was self-publishing black quotation books in our house and selling them to like black bookstores around the country.

It's a book called Famous Black Quotations in the mid 80s. In the mid 80s, people don't, there weren't books that collected black quotations specifically. Quotation books were just white people, mostly white guys probably.

Of the book?

Who were like the... I mean, you know, there's probably like a Mount Rushmore. Of course, there's a lot of King. There's a lot of King. There's a lot of Frederick Douglass. Okay, of course. He was good. He was good. Who could forget? Of course. Hold for applause. Yeah, I don't think who else, because I don't want to leave anybody out. I'm trying to think.

There's definitely going to be a lot of Maya. Especially in the mid-'80s. That's when Maya was really blossoming publicly. I'm trying to think who else is in there. That's probably the... Oh, Malcolm X. Yeah. I'm going to say Malcolm X. Yeah, those are the ones.

But it was better than vague. It was

I used to go to my dad's every summer in Alabama.

That's the best way.

My dad was in Alabama, born and raised in Alabama. My mom was in, we were in Boston, Indianapolis, Chicago, so we moved around a little bit, yeah. Are you aware of what's being built within you? Yeah, because I would go, like when my mom lived in Boston, like even little things, like I would go to Alabama in the summer and everybody in Alabama said, you sound like you're from the north.

Well, I think if you are a mixed kid and you only grew up around... First of all, let's be clear. I'm happy that my daughter has other mixed kids around her. One of her best friends is mixed, but they're not even mixed in the same way. So it's like, I think there's a mixed experience that I'm happy that she's able to discuss with other kids who are mixed. But then there's also just like...

Then I would go back to the north and everybody would go, you sound like you're from the south. And so I was aware that like, so I don't belong in either of these places. Like nobody thinks I fit in any of these places. And I was aware that when I go to Alabama, people are just living way differently than they're living in Boston. And the cities look different and the accents are different.

And as a kid, I didn't like Alabama. And now as an adult, I'm like, thank God I did that. So I have some perspective. But yeah, so it was like, I was always aware, like, you know, I'm like living in my grandmother's house and her dog's name is Freeway. And he runs around the neighborhood and people come by every few minutes to check on my grandmother. It's like a very classic.

She's on her Lazy Boy watching her stories. You know, so it's like a very slowed down version of life, summers in Alabama versus like Boston, where it's like...

I mean, I was an only child who loved being an only child, so rarely lonely, but I certainly learned, I learned how to keep my own company. Yeah. I learned how to like. I don't understand when children are like, I wish I had a brother. I didn't have any of that. I learned how to entertain myself. I think that's where the beginnings of being a stand-up comic, because I had access to my own

process and thoughts all the time.

Only as much as it made it easier to move around when you fit in, you know? Yeah. So, like, so I think, and I'm in high school, I'm in Chicago. It's also, like, I'm in high school when, like, hip-hop is fully going mainstream. Like, I'm in high school in the late 80s. So hip-hop is this thing that is now like it. And I'm like, I like it, but it's not like my, you know. It's a type of music.

I mean, I could do every lyric to like Rapper's Delight. I was there for all those things. But like when I went to rap shows, I went to see, I remember I saw Arrested Development.

Yeah, exactly, yeah. So I'm aware that I'm, and then the bands I'm listening to, I'm listening to Black Rock, Living Color, Fishbone. So I'm aware that from that, and I go to the Living Color concert, and there's more black people on stage than in the crowd. And then I go to like, you know. Which they loved, I'm sure. This is what we did it for. This is why we started a band.

And so I'm aware that the things that I like like associate with,

whiteness even when they're not white yeah like fishbone is like from compton you know right so like it's not so but and the things that black people like and there's and this was before the internet so like there's no way to even find my own people now i think well that's what's funny is because it it ended up there are you weren't alone no but you were isolated yeah and i didn't there was no way to sort of like go on a thing and go hey who else what other black yeah there was no there were no chat boards or no uh

Black people, you know, just like who aren't mixed and aren't thinking about being mixed and aren't, maybe some of them aren't that excited about mixed people.

At the time I was there, I mean, I don't want to describe Hyde Park Town, but it's very much like it's on the south side of Chicago, but it's the University of Chicago's campus. So it is not the south side of Chicago the way that people say. It's where the Obamas live. It's where the Obamas live very comfortably. Yeah, like the library is going to be, et cetera, et cetera.

And the University of Chicago, like all big campuses, has taken over more and more of the neighborhood. So it's basically a police state. So you can't, yeah.

so and michelle worked with the university or she worked with the hospital i don't know i don't know it was like community outreach but yeah there was definitely like and there's you know there are rappers from there i'm not trying to say it's like yeah but like vic mints is from high park so it's not like you know which so but like it's just i was sort of like aware that like even in this even on the south side of chicago i'm not in like the black so you but then as a black teenager who's on the bus going places oh so if you say you're from a high park

real black people be like oh yeah kind of like roll their eyes i can't say that for now for sure but when i was there definitely okay definitely like it's probably worse now yeah it probably is but i just don't want you know you don't get caught up like talking about a place you know sure so this is another black thing don't talk about a place unless you know it yeah don't don't be like yeah so uh

So, yeah, so I was aware that, like, even, like, I'm, but then sometimes you're just in a group of people or you find some people and conversations emerge. I remember one of my favorite stories of that, I was at an airport, listened to my yellow sports Sony Walkman. I travel a lot because I go to see my dad. And a black dude comes and sits next to me.

And he has that look like, I'm not in airports a lot, so I'm happy to see a black dude. And so he's like, hey, man. And I fly all the time. I'm like, hey, he's like, what are you listening to? And I remember being like, Pearl Jam.

I don't have, I'm an only child.

And he was like, and I could see the look on his face like, I don't know if he even knew what it was, but it was not what he needed to be, and I don't think we could continue to talk. I have lots of moments like that.

Like a weed. Yeah. But the thing is, but at some point you hit a point of, like, but what does this look like as I get older? Like, I used to have a lot of fear about, like, am I just going to be alone the rest of my life? Not lonely, but alone. Like, you know those people who are like, that guy never dates anybody. Yeah. He goes, he buys, every day he goes to the grocery store, he buys one meal.

Well, the immersion program is that, so is that my dad lives in Mobile, Alabama. Say no more. Every time we go to Mobile, Alabama, I give them a speech of like, all right, we're about to go to Mobile, Alabama. We're traveling back in time. And I'm like, there are going to be 80-year-old black women who you've never met before who are going to say they've known you since you were a baby.

He goes home, he makes that meal. Yes. He watches the evening news. Uh-huh. You know, and he's nice. Single serving everything. Single serving everything. He's nice, very nice guy. Yeah. Just never seen with anybody. So I had friends, my best friends.

Yeah, and nothing I did made me feel like I liked what I liked. Like, I was a big fan of stand-up comedy. This stand-up comedy was not cool at the time. It wasn't like now. We're like, I'm a comedy nerd.

No, no, no.

No, people didn't know. So you couldn't be like, what are you into? Stand-up comedy. It was not a thing. So nothing I would say to somebody... let's say I'm in high school, like a lady, is gonna get me any cool points. Comic books were not cool, they're cool now. I know everything there is to know about Bruce Lee, that's not getting me anything. I take Kung Fu lessons after school.

Not the answer we were looking for. Weirdly, I'm learning how to fight. So I just was like, I don't know where the other, so specifically talking about women, I don't know where the other half of this person is who would be like, yay. So maybe I'm just going to be alone forever.

No, but I think that by the time I met her, I was like, first of all, I'm a little bit older than her, so I'm seven years older than her. Show business, of course you are. Yeah, of course, yeah. But luckily, like a good seven, yeah, she was 23 when I met her. It could have been worse. But so I was already on the other side of like, this is who I am. Yeah.

So I'm not like, and also, as far as you could tell, this guy's a working comedian. So I want to be in the arts, and he's pursuing his career. And he's sort of like, as an example. So I had points there that I did not have before. But like, by that point, I'd abandoned thoughts of being cool. Like, I'd abandoned any sort of thoughts of like, But then I've also been with women.

It's not like I was like, this is the first person I've built. But I sort of like, I am who I am at this point. Or I'm happy to figure it out and not be in the place that people think I'm supposed to be.

How do you raise your children?

No, I think – I mean it's different because three kids and one kid – the only child thing is a big part of it because you get to have – You have the time to explore in a way that like when you're in a family of three, you just don't have that much individual time. So like my middle kid, Juno, like I feel like we're opposites of each other because she was like she's a middle kid.

So she's always feeling squeezed. And as an only child, I always felt free. And so I can connect with her because I'm like, I can I can tell that position sucks. Like I can tell that like you sort of always have to be shuttled with the other kid because nobody knows what to do with you. So you're always sort of like in the backseat going to soccer practice.

and you're just going to have to be like, uh-huh. And then that happens? Yeah, you just have to accept it. They're going to be like, oh, I saw you when you, you've never met this person before. And they're going to, and every woman is going to want to hug and kiss you. And I know we talk about bodily autonomy and da-da-da.

But I definitely know like the, I know the value of being alone. And Melissa, my wife, is one of four. And I don't think she recognizes that in the same way I do. The value of like everybody, I'm just going to go upstairs and close the door, you know. And so we are raising our kids to sort of like pursue their own thing.

So I think they are being raised like weeds, but there's just more people around. So it's not as, you know.

getting easier? If I was a single person with no, who was not married with no kids, it would probably be getting easier. It would probably be, I feel less. Oh, because your wife is white and your kids are mixed. Well, just because I have a lot of responsibility and my mom's 87 and I got to figure out how to like, every decision I make impacts those people.

But I mean, just like, you know, like when I did the Cosby thing, I had to sort of go to my wife and be like, it's about to get ugly.

Yeah, you may want to make your internet profile private. I can't do that. My mom heard from people who were like, I can't believe you're a son, da, da, da, da, da, da.

So the decisions I made, if I had sort of denied my natural curiosity about this Cosby thing and just sort of, I don't know, took the gigs that I, took sort of more regular gigs, it would be better probably for my family's, I don't know, They wouldn't be taking on the slings and arrows that they take on because I'm like, I'm so curious. I got to figure this out.

Yeah, so none of it affects... The work of the documentary is the work of the documentary. And a lot of that, despite how the documentary is, is actually fun to do because you're trying to solve creative problems. And I'm really proud of things in there. It's a very well-made movie. I texted you or whatever. It's really good. Yeah, and there's a section where we talk about... We do an...

Yeah, yeah, over black. There's going to be a lot of black women who are going to hug and kiss you, who are going to tell you they're your aunt. They may or may not be your aunt, but you need to sort of like be around this.

two and a half, like two episodes sort of giving you the history of Bill Cosby's current show business and talking about the crimes he committed, because a lot of people think it all happened later, but it was throughout his career. And then you get to episode three, where I've earned enough of your trust as a filmmaker who takes this seriously to do the lip sync scene from the Cosby show.

And go, this was awesome. Yeah. You know what I mean? So I'm really proud of the fact that I was able to take people back to that moment like, yeah, that was awesome.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

And has to be reckoned with for the rest of American history. And has to be sort of like... And the whole doc is like, but we gotta reckon with all of it. I think if we don't reckon with all of it, we're... I think it's bullshit. I think it's bad for black people to not reckon with all of it.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like the way I said in the doc is that it's not about black wealth. It's about black money not being, money being not such a factor in every black household's decision.

Yeah. Like not like you're a doctor. They never there was never. No, no, no.

And the parents were able to make decisions based on what they wanted. Not can we afford it?

Which to me is like a different level of freedom that most black people don't have in this country.

Yeah, they were just like, should we do this? It's not good times.

Yeah, we might have to.

It's like the side effect from the medicine didn't kick in for a long time.

Yeah, I think that like, I'll just say this. I've talked to people just around the making of this, who feel like I owe my entire career, and these are black people, to the job I got on The Cosby Show and to his specific mentorship of me on that job. And I'm still doing, I'm in show business at this level because I started there.

Now, some people would say, well, you would have gotten another chance somewhere else. But that's not true. Maybe, maybe not. Yeah, yeah. Especially as a black, like these are black women who worked around him who were like, I wouldn't have done this.

And even one of my favorite parts of the doc is Lily Bernard, who's one of the survivors, talks about how great the set was because it was filled with black people. Yeah. And so that, and that's somebody who's like a survivor of having a horrible thing happen to her from him. And she's still able to go, the set was amazing. Yeah.

So I don't think, I don't think you can crush a legacy at the same time.

all of this tv stuff is temporary all this pop culture stuff is temporary so that you know as much as we go like the like it's like i i you don't i mean whenever people talk about like making their special and standing the test of time i'm like i love comedy i haven't watched prior or carlin exactly yeah in 30 years well to me it's like when i you may be a similar age i grew up i remember where i grew up and they were still i love lucy reruns on absolutely now you you have to go find them you have to go buy them you know what i mean so like

And that was as big in its way as the Cosby show. It sort of changed television. Yeah. And had a woman as the lead. And Desi Arnaz. And they're an interracial marriage. And so there's all this stuff. Yeah.

Somehow. Despite the best efforts of Desi's. Yeah.

yeah yeah uh but yeah so like all this pop culture stuff is in some level gonna at some point re like people like they don't show reruns of cosmos anymore first of all reruns are not even a thing that we really do a lot anymore anyway in the society but second of all eventually you stop showing reruns of everything you know yes gilligan's island was on everywhere when i was a kid yeah you couldn't even i couldn't explain it to my kids now you know what i mean so like

It's too stupid. Yeah. If the professor can build.

No, for sure. Yeah. I mean, I don't think I would say bodily autonomy is overrated to my six-year-old. That seems like an out of sight of what... But I know, but I do say they're going to want to hug you and kiss you. I want you to know that so that you can have that in you. And then there are going to be times where they're going to literally be like, come here, baby.

I know. So I knew, I think one of the great things about being a comedian is that your imagination is often way more fertile than other people's, than regular people's.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I was like, I always took a ghost dog approach. I'm going to imagine, I imagined the worst things I thought could happen to me. like, from this thing. And so, and all the, not the words, just all the different things I thought this could happen, this could happen. So by the time some of those things happened, I was like, oh, I knew that was it. Yeah.

So, like, and also, they didn't firebomb my house. So, like, I had imagined that. But, like, I knew that, like, okay, somebody's going to come out with a thing that says we need to talk about Debbie Kamau Bell. That happened. That's a YouTube clip that YouTube suggested. You like Kamau Bell? And I was like, no. Good.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, sir. And so like, or like, I knew that the people who had the most to say about it in the negative would be people who never watched it. So even today, I will be walking down the street, happens, maybe happened six months ago, and I'll run into a black person who's around my age who's like, man, I liked everything you did except that one thing.

And I'm like, Cosby, Cosby, that Cosby thing. Yeah. And inevitably, I'll let them like, buh, buh, buh, buh, buh. It's like, did you see it? Nah, nah, nah, nah, nah. I mean, I think if you saw it, you might, well, . And I think what happens at that moment, one, people notice that I don't run away. I don't get scared.

Because a lot of times, it's been black dudes who sort of have a little bit of that regular black energy.

Not the private school energy. But I'm also, you know, I look like... You're pretty big, though. Yeah, I'm 6'4". People are often like, you're tall.

So, exactly. That could kick in at any time. But I'm sort of very aware that, like... I'm not gonna like run away from, if you're not gonna, unless you're gonna be super rude, but if you just wanna talk, I'll talk to you. And so I've talked to many people. I was in Mr. Fab's store in Oakland one time and this black dude came in and was just like, and I sort of stood there and talked to him.

And by then he's like, all right, well, you know, like not that he was gonna go watch it, but he's like, this guy didn't run from me, you know? So I was aware that like, I was gonna be in situations with black people who were gonna have feelings about it. And I was gonna have to deal with those feelings.

And some of the, and the other thing is I knew some of those black people would be black comedians.

Yeah.

It's just like, but people think that's what it was. That's the most convenient version of it is like, he's been, he's been hired by the white man to take the black man down. And so like, you know, and all I can do is like, the great thing about it, having kids, a lot of my, what other people think about me, I just don't have time for it or energy for it. Yeah.

So it does affect me, but it doesn't affect me as much as it used to.

The Andrew Tate era of masculinity. And so I think absolutely there are, I've seen people online argue it. First of all, the other argument is everybody was doing it. White people were doing it. They didn't get caught. So why should we, even if he did do all this, why are we focusing on him?

Like a thing that doesn't happen, come here, give me up. And I want you to be prepared for that. I'm not going to tell you how to handle it, but I just want you to know that's going to happen. And these are people who – and this is the thing I tell them. These are people who love you even though they've never met you. They have an investment in your future.

Exactly.

Well, it's also the fact it was like, yeah, of course white guys get away with it. It's how this country works on every level. Like, why are you surprised? That's not proof of anything.

Let me simplify that for you. Don't rape. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, like don't, don't, don't. You can't. Let's say if you want to be a scumbag, if you're black, it's just going to be harder. I'm sorry.

I don't get invited to all of the black spaces all the time. Were you getting invited? No, I was already sort of like, I'm always, I already smell, like I think they can smell private school on me. And that's bad. And I'm not trying to put those spaces down, but I think black guy married to a white woman is already like a, and I accept it. It's a demerit. I accept it. I'm not, I get it. I get it.

So the cover of Essence is probably not coming. You know what I mean? So like, but they have, I have been covered in those magazines. I'm not trying to say that, but I just know that there's like, a certain level, and also I didn't come up through like the black comedy club circuit, and so a lot of the people who would know me didn't know me if I'd come up through that circuit.

Yeah, no, for sure, for sure.

I was like, okay. He's going skiing this weekend. No, and I don't have any, I want to be so clear about this. I don't have any beef with any of this stuff. No, of course not. And I'm the dude who chose to do it this way. So I can't be surprised about what happened. Like, how come I don't get called for, well, yeah, you're not even over there.

They're going to tell people they saw you. If you ever pop up in a newspaper article because you – They're going to send it to 10 people. Exactly. Like these are your people, and so I want you to be prepared for your people. So just to build the context so that like if – because –

I was fully prepared for my career to be over. Like I was fully prepared for like. I can after Cosby. Yeah. I was like sort of preparing for like, maybe I won't get, you know, I had still had United shades at that point. So I was like, I still have that, but like you did four or five years of that seven, seven, Jesus.

That's like, it's like bringing up this guy used to work at McDonald's. Yeah. Uh, but yeah, so, so, uh, yeah, so I, I was just prepared for like, I don't know, this could be so bad. that the whole thing could be over because nobody's going to want to work with me. Because first of all, I didn't know if people would like it. So if everybody hates it, then my career is over.

And I just am one of those people who went down in a blaze of glory. So I was already like, well, I'm here in Oakland. I can get a job. I could probably teach theater. I could go back to school, get my degree, and then become a professor. I know enough. I was like, I know enough that I can keep my family fed and clothed. But I was prepared for that 100%.

But the fact is, is like when it came out very quickly, it became the best reviewed thing I'd ever released, like the best, most critical acclaim. And so I felt like, okay, at least I have that.

Exactly. I won a Black Reel Award. And then what happened, I remember I was at Tribeca Film Festival and this started, this was the first time it happened, but it started happening more and more. This was like months after it had come out. And I was even like worried about going out in public for a little while. Like, I just was like, I'll tell you, Good story about that.

So this black woman came up to me at the Tribeca Film Festival and was like, Kamau Bell, yeah. She sort of waved me over. She's like, you had my group chat on fire. She was sort of saying it like it was great, but people were really in their feelings about it. She's like, you blew up everybody's group chat. And I didn't know that. And I heard from other black people about that.

There was just a lot of like... Yeah, it's, it's, yeah. That ultimately was better. And it came out before R. Kelly, right? The R. Kelly doc? It was after R. Kelly. Because it was sort of, like, the two docs that inspired it were Surviving R. Kelly and Made in America O.J. Simpson.

In Oakland, if some black woman they don't know comes up and hugs them, it might be a little bit strange because this is not the same as the South. It's not totally different. There are certainly black women who will hug you in Oakland. I want to be clear about that. But the South, it's just very concentrated, which is why I'm glad I said that.

Yeah, I mean, she had it worse. There was like death threats and bomb threats.

No, I think she had it. I definitely think she had it.

Yeah, she had it worse. But I think Dream also is like, doesn't give, like, probably, maybe doesn't feel it the same way I felt it, because DreamHammond doesn't give a shit. DreamHammond can do what she does. She's the greatest. And she's been a real resource during this time when I was sort of having a rough time.

And so, yeah, so I think that like my male privilege to some extent protected me because I'm not getting as many, I'm gonna rape you as if I was a woman filmmaker. You got some.

Yeah, but I'm not getting, and so like, and the thing that came out of it that I felt like mission accomplished was that Lily Bernard, who I talked about earlier, said after the doc came out and was out for a while, she got less online hate than before the doc came out. Because she's like a very prominent Cosby survivor. And she said the online hate has gone down significantly.

And she said it's consistent since the doc came out. So I was like, well, if I can take the slings and arrows, if nothing comes out of it but that, good job, or mission accomplished. But the story I want to tell you is, so this is how, this is what I sort of,

Sort of the kind of thing I was sort of dealing with so I'm going to the I'm like, I think it's United chasing CNN thing They sing they send a car to my house to pick me up CNN people do that you can explain to them that that's how it works in show business So I go into the car. It's not it's like and you know, if you use a car service lot There's like your regular driver.

Mm-hmm And this was not my regular driver and some other guy and I was I gotta get in the car and we're driving It's a black dude and we get in the highway. He goes man I gotta talk to you about that Cosby doc. Brother, what were you thinking? I was talking to my family, and they were like, why would this brother? I like, and he's like, you know what? I drive him sometimes.

I'm gonna talk to this brother and see what, we're going, it's like a 45 minute trip to the airport.

held captive while this guy hasn't seen it and told his family that I'm going to confront him next time he's in my car. And I have to like, sort of, and it was like, I have to sort of just sort of roll with this, you know what I mean? And sort of finagle. And so that's the kind of thing that I have found myself having to figure out situations like that.

Well, often the thing that I've learned is that people in this situation, this happens to me a lot, have a speech they've prepared if I ever run into that guy. Yeah. I'm going to tell him, and they have it memorized. And if you just sit back and let them talk, they will eventually talk themselves out. They will get to the end of their speech and all you're gonna be like, yeah, I hear you.

100%, yeah. No, I think that like it's – I think that – every American should spend some time in the South, because I think a lot of us sort of like, even comics, we go, we play the club, but you don't actually hang out.

And you know, the other time, you know what? So eventually I had to, so that happened. Next few months later, a few months later, I'm getting in the car, same thing, same driver. And he goes- Man, I got to talk to you. I saw you on CNN talking about Dave Chappelle and trans people. Why you got to blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Uh-huh. I was like, I finally called the car company.

I was like, Hey man, I'm not trying to get anybody fired. I'm not trying to get anybody. I don't, I'm not, I'm not, but I just, I just need to not, not that guy. Yeah. Not, not his podcast. I've been a guest on his podcast twice. That's very funny.

So for me, I've been going to Mobile since I was a kid, and I think it like totally, I think it explains a lot of my life, why I sort of am able to move around a lot and be in a lot of different places, because I was going from like Boston to Mobile, and those are two very different and very similar places with weird accents.

And I sort of got to understand that like America is a lot of different things. And I think that like Especially with black people. Most black people in this country live in the South.

Why aren't you mugging? Why aren't you rolling on the floor?

I think that the biggest thing I've done is like, don't feel like you're supposed to be places, like don't feel like, sort of like go where you're invited. You know what I mean? So CNN goes, do you want to do a show here? That doesn't make any sense. I'm a comedian. That's not gonna work. But let me go have that meeting. Oh, Bourdain's here. Oh, Morgan Spurlock's here. I like them. Oh, Lisa Lee.

Oh, they want me to da-da-da-da. Anybody alive? Go on. Lisa's still with us. Lisa's still with us, thank God. But yeah, so, but yeah, like, the idea of, like, I sort of, like, maybe I should have, like, moved to L.A.

and started auditioning for stuff, but I'm like, and the CNN show at the beginning especially wasn't, like, it was paying good money, but it wasn't, like, network TV money or anything. Yeah. So, like, it was, like, I was still having, I was still working outside of it, but, like,

So basically, if somebody's inviting you a place and you feel like you can do what you do there, don't question all the like, but is this the, but maybe I should. So there was a run where I was on the CNN crawl, Anderson Cooper, Don Lemon, and me. And it was like, nope. Nobody one of these things does not belong here, but like I figured out my way there.

And so I think for me like Following my nose has been the best thing to do instead of like saying like like free I I never moved to LA I should have moved to LA I have friends, you know, all my friends like for one. I mean based on looking back It's like well, no, I also knew that LA was not gonna be I was just like that's not gonna work for me I just knew and so

I sort of always knew that, like, I got to do it my way. And then if you're going to do it your way, then just expect it's going to take longer. Or it's going to be a different journey. Or it's not always going to make sense. And so I think even the bands I liked sort of taught me, like, all my favorite bands had careers that they achieved less than they should have. You know what I mean?

But they created great art. And so I feel like, well, look, you don't like Aerosmith. You know what I mean?

Well, there's different versions of it, but there's like in the North, they don't care how high you get as long as you don't get too close. In the South, they don't care how close you get as long as you don't get too high. So the idea being that in the North, you can be a black doctor, but don't move into my neighborhood.

No, like if you're a big fan of like... Pearl Jam's a fine example where it's like they're still around and they're still vital and all that stuff. They're still packing stadiums. But like you don't know it unless you look for it. You have to be a fan. Yeah. But they're all paying their mortgages on their multiple houses every month. Yes. But like...

Like, you know, but like the bands I like, it's like they're they just go through a lot more. And so I'm like, then that's probably your path. Yeah. You know, so I think but having three kids, it's also like, all right, so I can't just go back to stand up and fool around with it. If I'm going to stand up, I got to start booking some gigs because I need to sort of like this has to generate income.

So, yeah.

And I also think that, like, I recognize being smart for a comedian doesn't mean you're actually smart. And we live in a time where a lot of comedians think they're actually smart. I don't know what you're talking about.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yep. And I think I've sort of got the point of, like, always understand that you're smart. It's like being good-looking for a comedian. Yeah. Like, what's his name? Matt Rife. Matt Rife, yeah. He's good-looking for a comedian. Yeah. 60-year-old Brad Pitt walks in the room, nobody's looking at Matt Rife.

You know, so I think that, like, the idea being that, like, we've got a whole generation of comedians who have been...

The internet has connected people in a way that black weirdos can find each other. I remember the first time somebody called me a blurd, I was like a black nerd. I was like, oh, is that what I've been all this time? I wish I had that when I was 12. I wish I had that word. Back then it was not, oh, now it's cool? And so I think that like...

Whereas in the South, they're like, I'd rather you live next to me than be a black doctor. You can move in. Yeah, you can move in. Just don't go to med school. And also, it's a legacy of enslavement. White people in the South are used to black people in a way that white people in the North are not used to black people. Still getting used to it. Still working it out 140 years later. I don't know.

my kids are able to define themselves, you know, they're mixed, so it's a little bit different, but they're still black, and they're able to define themselves as however they want to, and I sort of enjoy watching that.

So I think, yeah, it's easier now, but there's still, like, gonna be a hot, there's still gonna be a percentage of black people who are gonna tell you, we are the holders of what is black, and you have to deal with that. And that's the thing about, like, my kids going to South.

I want you to understand that, like, there is a black consciousness, or people who think they're in charge, but they're not, and you need to just sort of understand that that's out there so you know how to deal with it.

it's yeah it's elective yeah it's like yeah if you want to buy into that but also just so you know so you're not like oh yeah is that are you a hotep you know what i mean like you should know what the stakes are and who's and so you're you know we have to it's important that they travel around me as many different types of black people as possible to understand that there's like there's a lot of different types and we do you encourage them being around like or being exposed to black conservative people

You know what I mean? My oldest is 13, so she's not quite ready for Trump. Right, but I'm saying, like, do you... I'll say this. Like, if you're around... If you're a black kid growing up in Oakland, which my kids are, and you go to Alabama, you're automatically around black people who are more conservative than black people in Oakland. Now, they're not necessarily voting for Trump.

Some of them are, though. But so I think that's the other thing, too, is, like, just the way they are in the world and their belief. Also more church-focused. Like, my kids... past churches, like they don't know, they don't spend time in churches. So being around black people in the South, you're around more, just not small C conservative people.

So you have to sort of understand that there are different types of people out there, and it's fine, great, great. They're not bad.

So, my oldest is applying to high school right now. And it's sort of just... Pretty good religious high schools. That's what I'm saying. So, her mom, Melissa, went to, like, Catholic school K through 12. Like, actually through college, too. Me, too. Except for college one year. Yeah, she went to Santa Clara. So, she's... But she's not... She's Catholic in culture, not Catholic in... Yeah.

Yeah, we don't go to mass. So when we started talking about high schools, she was like, there's a couple Catholic high schools in the East Bay. And I was like, ugh. But then we went and checked them out. And I went to Catholic high school for a couple years, so I understand. But we went and checked them out. So first of all, they're Bay Area Catholic. Right. So it's just not Louisiana Catholic.

Yeah. There's a lot of, everybody, everybody's in. And also the schools aren't even mostly Catholic kids. But for me, it was like, you know what? A big part of cultural IQ is knowing about religions. And they will teach her about religions of the world, including Catholicism, of course. And so for me, it was like, you actually have a hole here that you don't know this because your parents are...

Awful. And, but I think you should, it will behoove you to sit down in a classroom and actually learn about the religions of the world in a way that I just got from being out in the world. Yeah. So, so yeah, so I would say like, I don't want my kids to grow up without a concept of religion. We don't talk about like God in any sort of like real sort of like, oh, there's a God like in our family.

This is a thing I learned because I was working on projects about schools. Overwhelmingly integration went better in the south than it went in places like Boston. Why? Because black and white people in the South are more used to being around each other. Right. So there certainly are stories, but just generally, it went way worse in Boston than it went in lots of places.

They do, however, hear me all the time being like, oh, thank you, black Jesus. Like, they do hear me, like, as a person who, like, whew, that was close. Thank you, Black Jesus. So they understand that there is a sense of, like, there is a thing that I'm relying on that I'm calling Black Jesus. And so they understand those things.

But I think that, like, I am happy that she's going to have sort of, like, a deep dive into these things because I think it's important to know. And maybe you develop a relationship with religion on your own or God or spirituality. But it is interesting to me to think that, like, we basically have raised godless kids.

Yeah, no, for sure. That's why I sort of only flirted with atheism as a teen, but I never could commit to it because I was like, I kind of do need black Jesus. When I say thank you, black Jesus, I am saying thank you. You're talking about Michael Jordan, of course. Of course, of course. I am saying thank you to something that is higher than me.

I do it as a joke, but I am actually expressing gratitude to... In that moment, like something is bigger than me is helping me through this moment. But my kids don't have, didn't, but I also got that through going to church with my mom, going to my grandmother's Baptist churches where black women passed out and they had to speak in tongues.

So I got it in a more up close and personal way than my kids have gotten it.

But I think the other thing is like, it's important to me that they have, like we talk about gratitude all the time. Like we will get, because of my career, like we got to go to Universal Studios for free, and I'm sort of clear with them like, you didn't earn this. Yeah. You don't deserve, I don't deserve this. Yeah. So we should be grateful for the fact that we get to do this, you know.

Impossible. It's an ongoing discussion. You can't just have that discussion once. It's like you have to keep having it to instill the idea.

No, but I think that with our careers, with my career, you get access to stuff that even your friends who are maybe even richer than us don't get access to. You know what I mean? So I just want to be aware that this is not promised to us. And this is the thing about being from the South. Say thank you to everybody, which is totally a Southern thing. Say yes, ma'am.

I'm sort of instilling those Southern values because I think those are important.

America, who the... Yeah. No, I mean... Just on the way here this morning, listening to the news, we have achieved... Like, Trump has achieved something... But it's funny.

Again, this goes back to if I didn't have kids and didn't have a, maybe if I had a wife be different, but if I didn't have kids, I would be gone. I'd be okay. Well, here's where are you going? Um, I would, well, that's the thing. Where do you go? This is the thing.

Sure, yeah. No, I'm not talking about violent. Certainly there's a legacy of lynchings in the South. But in the North, they weren't lynchings. They were just police brutality. So it just is a different name.

Sure.

For sure.

First of all, if you apply to Canada, they do have a thing called, it's basically like their genius visa. So if you have like, uh, if you've done things in the arts, if you're a published author, you can get so, cause I'm too old by age to get in there, but by a claim I can get it. I think I can get it. So I've looked into it. Uh,

I have thoughts of going to New Zealand and being the Yakov Smirnoff of New Zealand. Like the black American in New Zealand. In my country, I would just travel the country and do a TV show where I just like eat. That's why it's in New Zealand. Because even right-wing New Zealand, which they're right-wing right now, still has like a social safety net, health care, progressive policies.

But there's not a lot of black people. But I think if I went there, I would like – become part of the, like the, the tribe, like the Maori tribes and things. I would sort of like, okay. Cause you can't, as a black guy, there's not really a lot of places. I mean, of course there's Ghana. Yeah.

Yeah. I would go, I mean, I would go check out Ghana. I just, you know, again, I got mixed kids.

Yeah, but like, but the thing that as a black person's country, you're like, but we're also sort of the, weirdly though, we're not the smaller, we're like 12% of the population, but we're one of the engines of the country.

So like, if you take black people out of this country, shit starts to go left. Culturally? Yeah, culturally, yeah. And just like, you know, all the, most of the money in this country comes from like the blue states and the blue cities, which are more black than the red states, like a lot of the red states. So, but yeah, so I think that like,

Glad we started with the fun stuff. God bless. God bless.

we definitely have earned our value here in this country as far as like we should be, but we're not being given our value. We're not being treated as if we've earned our value in this country. So for me, I think a part of it is like, I remember talking to this black woman before the election, like something about we have to fight for our country.

And I had that moment that every black person has eventually, is this really our country? And I really think that like, we have to understand that countries are temporary. Like in the history of the world, When I was a kid, we had a map of Africa in my house that my mom would regularly have to be like, that country's named this now. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah, and so I think that we have to, in my mind, if I didn't have kids who really wanted to stay in school, I would start going to other places and looking around to see where do I fit? Because I got to fit somewhere else. Because I think that this country is...

I always said even in, there's different types of racism in America, and I prefer the West Coast racism to the Southern racism. So I'm not like, and so I don't think if I go to- By the way, there's different types of racism in Africa. Yeah, for sure. So I'm not saying I'm trying to escape racism. I'm trying to escape specifically America and America's policies and America's race.

Like, so I don't think as a black person, our images have been like sort of sold and sort of all over the world. So wherever I step into it, they're gonna have some sense of what a black person is. Now it's gonna be, especially if I step into Ghana, it's as an American black person. And so I'm gonna have to deal with that wherever I go.

And part of the thing about New Zealand, there's not a lot of black people over there. And so a little bit, it feels like maybe I just go there for a break from just like, maybe there I can sort of, and then gear up and go to Ghana. I don't know.

Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. You're like... I'm in America. You gotta really... Fuck white people.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's my name. I mean, I also thought about moving to Hawaii and then helping them become a sovereign nation again. Like, I've got a lot of ideas. Yeah. So, but I do think that America, like, I don't know that America deserves... most of us anymore. And I don't think, I think we have to stop thinking about this country as being a forever thing.

And I think if we thought more like that, not that everybody has the privilege to leave, but I think if we thought, instead of being like, we have to fight for this thing, like, what are we fighting for? And so, but because I have kids and an 87-year-old mom,

And I think that even if I was to leave this country, which again, I don't have any plans for this. This is just like, if I was single, I would be more invested in it. But I understand that the work of being a black American doesn't leave just because I leave.

I still sort of am connected to this country and invested in this country and checking in on this country and probably in some way making money off this country. But I just think that the last election really proved that, oh, this country really may not, we may have turned a corner.

But it's not significant enough that people act like it means something. It didn't swing anything. It didn't swing anything, yeah.

Yeah, because most people, no matter their race, don't pay that close attention to politics. Right. So I think we always sort of – people like me and you are like, oh, did you see what happened?

Exactly. And it just sort of comes through the ether. And then somebody they know online says, that's not real. They go, he said it's not real. Or Joe Rogan tells them something. So the idea being that I don't think that most people are paying that close attention. So I can't really – get mad at them for voting for Trump.

Now, if you're out there hustling for Trump as a black person, that's a different thing. I feel like now you're a grifter. Yes. But I think most people just sort of, like, do you know the day of the election, like, there was a spike in Google of, like, Why isn't Joe Biden on the ballot? Yeah. Yeah.

And a big spike. Yeah. So that to me is like most, we think most people are paying.

It's like us. At 6.13 this morning, the president said, you know, did you see his tweets? And most people aren't doing that. And so I have more empathy for those people than other people do. My beef is with people who are on my side who are being bad actors.

Like I'd rather, if I'm going to put some beef into an area, it's going to be into the like, you know, Hakeem Jeffries, Chuck Schumers of the world where it's like nothing.

Because money rules politics, it just means that those at the top are generally not going to be what we want them to be. Yeah. So therefore, we have to be, as a society, we have to be in a position to bully them into the position we want them to be in because they're not going to do it on their own. On their own good.

I do think that like at this particular moment in American history, if you are a person in power and a Democrat and you're not like actively like out there every day calling balls and strikes and actively out there every day, like sort of figuring out how to speak, how to sort of speak directly to people's country and how to like marshal the forces.

If you're a person who goes, I don't know what leverage we have. I can't trust you.

Yes. No, I'm with you.

But, see, this is Obama. This is where... Think about Obama. Obama came out of nowhere, basically.

Like, he was not a guy who was being groomed. He groomed himself. Groom is a weird word to use now. But he sort of believed. Him and Michelle believed it before anybody else saw it. Yeah. Michelle didn't, but he did. Yeah. You know more than me. You're much closer to the Obamas than I am. I've never met them.

So I think that's the model is go find these leaders who are now state senators, who are now like Summer Lee, who's from Pennsylvania, is a great example. She won a moderate district. I don't know if she's a socialist, but she's a democratic socialist. She's a progressive black woman, had to defeat AIPAC money to win her Congress seat.

Latifah Simon, where I'm from, just took over Barbara Lee's seat. Our dynamic leaders who are now in the Congress, go find, Go find those dynamic leaders and start to prepare the way for them.

I hope it works better for you.

And I think that right now, I would say the Democrat Party should be like the NBA in Africa in the 80s. Just go look for tall guys. Yeah. Just go look for like, just go. And I think that if they go, if they were to focus on that, I would be, Hakeem Jeffries can do whatever he wants to do, Chuck Schumer, but you really need to go invest in new talent. Yeah.

And I think right now they're sort of like, when they say things like we don't have leverage, it's like you're trying to hold on to your position.

Yeah. So I think that like until we can like get money out of politics, which is a big thing, the Democratic Party is only to be taken seriously if they understand like we need new blood.

they didn't just sort of like explode out of nowhere. They were like, that's the guy. He's young. He's charismatic. You know, Malcolm X was in prison and came out of prison and started giving speeches like, wait a minute, that guy talks really good. Like, you have to go find these people. And then when you find them, you have to turn the power over to them instead of just using it.

So I think at least AOC is actually demanding her turn. And I feel like I take her more seriously that way. And like I said, I think that like, I don't know that America's ready for a woman of color president. Like I'm not saying that we like should, a little bit I feel like, okay, find the best looking square jawed white guy available. And that's why I sort of have given up on America.

But I think you're not gonna find that person unless you let that person, you're not gonna, you have to go find that person.

That wasn't my catchphrase. White atheism, is it? You must be a white atheist. But no, I remember that because For some reason, yeah, I remember when you got to me, I was just like, in my mind, why would I say no? What would I be holding on to if I said no to this thing that is already out in the world? The only thing I was worried about is if somebody sees it and thinks you stole it.

I think that if we think this country is eventually going to settle back to some sense of like, all right, that was a crazy period. Now we're back to regular. I think that's naive. I think without actually fighting, scrapping, clawing,

figuring out, like, being invested in the solution, it's naive to think that America's gonna, like, settle in to, like... You know, Trump already has gone faster than even some Republicans expected. Yeah. Have you seen all these meetings where Republicans are showing up in their district? Yeah, they're mad. Talk about, Doge is doing... Stop yelling! You know what I mean?

Like, so, he's already, like, upsetting the apple cart so much that it's, like, that Republicans can't keep up with it. And I think that there's clearly gonna be more of that. And I think that we are naive to think that America sort of naturally pulls towards justice... I think America has been pushed towards justice.

And I think that it's not going to get to justice unless it is actually like bullied into justice, which is a funny way to put it. But I think that we can't sort of go.

And I think that whenever I see people on TV, especially in media who are like, you know, who are still in this place of like, for example, Elon Musk with this awkward hand gesture, I'm like, what you're telling me is that you're going to be fine.

That you've got, that you've, that you own a place in the Hamptons or you've got enough and you're invested in your 401k or you've got enough in the stock market that you're not actually worried. You don't have to be worried.

And so I think whenever I see people, celebrities talk about like, you know, things we go through stuff sometimes, like what you're saying is you're going to be fine. And I, and I, one of the great things about living in Oakland and in Oakland is that most people aren't fine. Yeah. You know, you know, most people, and I, and I see it every day.

And so it makes me sort of be like, I can't relax into my own, like, I'll figure it out. Like, I'll figure it out, but it doesn't mean I'm going to be fine.

And I got to be invested in everybody's fineness, just not my fineness.

Or it's a society. But I think the thing, people always come to me now because I'm this guy, like, Kamau, what can I do? What should I do? What should I do? You got to do something.

And I don't mean, I think we get caught up in like, I guess I'll start a nonprofit where I collect the sweaters from, you know, just like, and not that I'm pushing it, but like Donors Shoes is an organization I'm involved with that helps provide classroom supplies and equipment for public schools. You can go to DonorsChoose right now.

Like the word choose. Choose. Donors choose. So the donor gets to choose. So you can look up classrooms in your area code, wherever you live, in your zip code. Not area code, zip code. And you'll find public schools in your area where a teacher's like, I need $300 to buy hygiene supplies. And you just go. Boop.

On your credit card. And that happens. That's something. It's not like now you can't walk around and brag the rest of the day. But I think the idea being like, yeah. Watch me. Watch me. But the idea being that we all have to find something because nothing ain't going to get it. Yeah. So that's all I'm saying is all of us who want America to be

the thing that we thought it was when we were kids, have to be actually invested in something.

I'm not, I just think like right now you have all these Trumpers who are like, I voted for Trump and I have the hat and I just got laid off from my job because da-da-da-da-da-da-da. And people are like, ha-ha-ha. Yeah, and we don't think ha-ha-ha is not a good approach. No, no, no, ha-ha-ha. Not a good approach. But now I'm like, well, what are you going to do now?

Because if in four years you vote for him again, because he's going to run again for some time, or you vote for J.D. Vance, I need to know, I'm not going to laugh at you, but I do need to know, have you learned? Are you going to change?

Yeah, I know. Yeah, but other than that, I was like, you know. I'm a big understander in parallel thinking. Yeah, that's the thing.

Does Social Security spark joy? Does it spark joy?

As they say, it's way harder to build than break.

I just think that may be the cycle, but that cycle may happen over, like, there's going to be some stat of, like, the number of people who died because their Social Security check didn't come in. Like, they missed one month of Social Security, so they couldn't buy their medicine or they couldn't buy their food, and they died. And there's going to be some stat that proves this is what the cost was.

You know, this is what the human cost was.

And I want to be clear, I'm not here to advocate for President AOC or Bernie or any of these people. It's funny to me to see all these comedians who showed up at the inauguration being like, man, I would never show up at one of these people's things. Even people I agreed with, I'm not trying to be at the VIP room. And so for me, I'm not advocating for anybody.

I just appreciate people who are actually trying something versus people who are like, what can we do?

I don't think you compare it to who's doing it right. I think about a video game. Like in an NBA video game, the sliders on each player. This player's going to three-pointers. This player's going to rebounds. I think you have to look around and go, I'm going to look at all the sliders and go, man, Norway has a great quality of life. It's got social safety net. It's got prison reform.

It's got that. But it's got almost zero black people. So I can't do it. So I can't do it. I can't do it.

Now if you're like, I have this joke about your daughter. Wait a minute. But no, I just think that like, and also I think it's also about the fact that, I remember that emo Phillips thing. If you have a thousand jokes and somebody steals three, Well, you still got like 997 jokes. But if you have three jokes and somebody steals one, who the hell would you try to make it with three jokes? Yeah.

Yeah, it's fucking freezing. So I think you're not going to get. Which is synonymous with zero black people. Exactly. Those things often go hand in hand. So I think you can't look at these countries like, I'm going to pick the best one. You're going to pick the one that works for you.

And I think that we all sort of take, there's things that you take for granted in this country that if you go somewhere else, you might be like, oh man, I do kind of miss that. So I think that you have to, I think when we talk about moving to other countries, you got to talk about it in a way that's like, you're not looking at other countries like there's a best one or there's a perfect one.

all of this shit has been destroyed has been like raked over by imperialism and colonialism and capitalism human humanity yeah humanity but what are the things you need to get through your life you know so i think that that's which is why i like because i have kids it's like man i guess i'm gonna have to roll with this america for 12 more years yeah yeah i you wouldn't move them

No, I don't – I mean, not – no. Not if I – unless I had to. Unless something like, oh, shit, the National Guard is invading California and they're coming for Oakland, which could happen. But, like, I'm not going to – if things – if I can still figure it out here, I want them to have the life that they want here.

I'm not going to – because it would be hard on kids to sort of, like – I will – the culture change is not going to be as big for me as it is for them. But I don't want to put them through that.

I'm trying to find my joy. I don't think I can find it here anymore.

I feel like vague is totally accurate. And I think it's been longer than 15 years. It's just we didn't. That's how vague it is. Yeah, no one knows how. At some point, we were in the same place, but we weren't like, ah, we didn't.

Someday. Someday. I hope it's about nine hours.

I've deleted this. Yeah. Yeah.

I think it's on Paramount+. It was on Showtime, but I don't think Showtime exists, but it's on Paramount+, and you can buy it on all the things.

So yeah, so it all started as like, I mean, for years, I'll say this, like, you know, like... come up with a generation where Bill Cosby's the guy, Cosby Show, I'm the same age as those kids. So I would sort of track all the parts of him and like, oh, what happened when he did the pound cake speech?

So then after all the crimes came out, after I believed them and realized I did believe them, I don't know at what point I did, but at some point I was like, yeah, this should happen.

It's hard to track. In the doc, I say that. I remember when I got into comedy, the two things I heard, the gossip was that Robin Williams steals material and Bill Cosby's a philanderer. Like that was the, that's what I heard. But I mean, I'm an open mic comedian. It's like, well, I guess now that I'm a comedian, I get to know the secrets.

And so you heard that, that Bill Cosby, and that was no big like.

Yeah, that was like, it was like, yes, I get the, but every, especially as a black person, every minister in every church, there's a kid who looks kind of like him, you know, that is not his wife's kid, you know, whatever. So yeah.

Yeah, I know.

They don't make kids that way. So it keeps less evidence. So yeah, so I get excited about the creative process. And then they kept being like, oh, I'm going to call all these comedians. And they're all going to show up and talk about Bill Cosby and what he meant to be. How'd that go? Yeah. Well, Godfrey showed up. I appreciate that. Chris Spencer showed up. I appreciate that.

That's probably the first time you remember me.

And they were essential to the thing. And so very quickly, I realized, oh, well, I'm going to call the... Cosby was in jail at this point. Oh, I'm going to call the cast. I'm going to email the cast of The Cosby Show and send these letters and da-da-da-da-da. And I had a couple conversations with a couple of them that were great.

Oh, yeah. Absolutely. And I would never divulge who it was or whatever. Maybe it was nobody. Maybe I'm lying. Maybe I made it up. But yeah, so great conversations, but no. And that's when I realized how deep it was and what I'd gotten into. And that's when you start to go.

And also, I know there's like three or four other, at least two other Cosby docs out there that are finished or close to being finished that people have tried to make. that have just, that are sitting on shelves.

So I thought maybe this, so I kept thinking, maybe this is just gonna be that. And then COVID hit.

Yeah, no, I was just like, I'm just gonna keep making it. And I kept waiting for Showtime. I kept sort of being like, at some point, somebody might tell me, just put your pencils down. We're not doing this.

So until that point, I'm just gonna keep sort of like, and the thing that, and this is great about Vinny and Boardwalk, Andrew Freed, is that every time we ran into a creative problem, they were sort of down to figure it out. And every time I had these weird ideas, they were sort of down to let me try them. So it really became like, well, at least I get to do whatever I wanna do. Yeah.

So I might as well just do it. And I found a crew of people. I'm directing it through Zoom. Most of those interviews happened on Zoom. But yeah, I kept sort of, and then we had to break during COVID. And I kept sort of being like, maybe it's just dead. And you get a call, we're starting up again. Yay. And then we go back out and film.

And what was supposed to be our last day of filming was the day of the book. And we were in Philadelphia. And it was Cosby's, the day he got out of prison. That's in the movie, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. We have a lot of people who study the case and everything, but nobody was preparing for that. Nobody thought that was coming. Legally, I would argue it was the right thing to do.

Yeah. We were in Berkeley, but now we're in Oakland. We've been in Oakland for a while.

Well, we talk about that in the thing. It was a bunch of bad decisions, a bunch of bad legal things that had happened. Yeah. So it's not a technicality. People say it's a technicality. But it is a bunch of like. It was honoring an agreement. It was honoring an agreement that the next political attorney general flipped on. Yeah. But people try to frame it as like it proves that he's innocent.

It's not that. No. It's about like legalese being not lived up to correctly. And so they let him out. But it had nothing to do with his case about whether or not he did what he did. Because he admitted to what he had done.

No, no. I wanted to live in Oakland. When I moved to the Bay Area in 97, I started in Oakland. Then I lived all over in San Francisco for a long time. But I got three mixed race kids, so Oakland is kind of the mixed race kid capital of the world.

I'm sorry. Let me correct you.

Yeah. I just want to point out for people who can't see this, who are listening to this, Nicole, you're nodding along. There's like a sort of a silent amen choir over here about like a lot of the things that Zoe's saying. So yeah, it would be different if you were like looking like, no, no, no, everything she's saying wrong, but you're actually like, that would be a different podcast.

Extreme agreement. That's the new name of it. Extreme agreement. So, yeah. So, Nicole, feel free to fill in any there or say or restate it or however you want to put what are your thoughts on what you want people to know about the disability community and, you know, anything.

This wouldn't be the ACLU without questions of legality. Because as you just said, Zoe, you know, people may fit the definition of having a disability without even knowing it. And I think about myself sometimes, like, let's see, I got asthma. Yep. If I don't have my contacts and glasses on, I can't really see much. I have high blood pressure. I'm black.

There's all these things I have, and I'm joking about the last one. But the idea of, am I? And not that I even need to know. I'm living my life. But it's also like, but maybe there's something I am not getting in my life because I don't define myself that way. So can we talk about the legal definition of disability?

You get a prize. I actually mean that. I actually do mean, yeah. I like being accepted in new groups. I like having new communities.

experience of whether there's a choice about like being out about being disabled or not but it's a very broad definition let's talk about the care side of this nicole and the side of this that like people don't often think about about like there is the there is the person living with a disability and depending upon the disability there is the community around them that that sort of is also a part of that person's life and how they interact with the world and

and how we don't necessarily always have a good, as a government, I'm not trying to put it on society, we don't have a good system set up for care. Can we talk about the care side of this, Nicole?

Yeah. Can we focus a little bit more? Because I think it's something I would imagine, and I feel this way, that the people who are doing it for free almost wouldn't even understand that it's unpaid labor. 100%. Because it's also just part of it. You define it as like, this is what a good family member does. Without understanding also, this is also work.

100%.

All right. So I'm going to, here we go. I know we're going to get into the Medicaid thing soon or next, but I don't want to, right now I'm handing you a magic wand. so you can create the system that you would like to see of care in this country.

And you can feel free if there's other countries that do it better, which of course there are, or if there's other, or if there's, or if there's just a thing that you as a person who does this work knows we could need, even if it's not necessarily possible, what would that, what would the system look like?

Yeah, it's interesting because I'm at the age now of like me and a lot of my friends are like basically into like, what do you do with your parents?

And I think one thing that has changed significantly in the history of this world, and maybe just in this country specifically, but certainly history, is that there was a time where all those things you said about taking care of people, you all would have lived in the same village. So at least you were going across the village to take care of somebody and not like getting on flights, right?

My mom's 87 and she's the healthiest 87 I can imagine. She will Facebook friend you if you want her to. She's engaged, she's in a dance crew, but she's also 87. We're at the point now of like, okay, me and my wife, we need to find a house where she can be with us. And we're at a level of privilege where we can actually do that, although Oakland is still crazy expensive.

Hey everyone, it's me, W. Kamau Bell, America's favorite W. Kamau Bell. Welcome back to the ACLU's podcast, At Liberty, where I'm the official host. Every episode, I'm asking the big questions on the big issues affecting our big country. And we're especially focusing on the hardest hit and most vulnerable communities.

So we can't get the house we want. We have to get the house we would like and then fix the roof. And then I talked to a friend of mine yesterday who was like, his parents do halftime one place, halftime another place. And he's like, we're sort of trying to slowly talk them into a retirement community.

You know, because like the traveling across the country and the living by yourself where you're not near your community, it's not. And so then is that like we have to sort of encourage them to move into a retirement center that you, of course, know is not the dream. It's just the reality, you know, and they're again, these are people who are lucky enough to be able to make those choices.

Yeah. And I just want to, again, highlight the fact that me and my friend are the lucky privileged ones who get to sort of make some choices based on the fact that we're lucky enough and have enough resources to make these choices. We're not people who are just like, what do we do? We can't. We don't know. We have to move them into a place that's not big enough for us or we have to give away.

You know what I mean? So I just want to be clear about that, too.

And of course, as always, I'm calling on the experts, experts from the ACLU and experts from beyond. And they're here to give us guidance. Last episode, we covered immigration rights. And I'm still thinking about a line from our guest, Maribel Hernandez Rivera. Our love, she said, is never going to end. My family, whether here or elsewhere, we're going to still be a family. Damn.

Thank you for, yeah, I think it's a lot. And I feel lucky because my dad is 80, but he's sort of like, he's newly remarried. I'm like, okay, she'll handle him. He's your responsibility now. Let's dig into the thing that Medicaid is in the news more and more. And I really mean this. What is it? What is Medicaid? I just want to get to the vet. And then what does it do now?

What is it not doing that it needs to be doing? You know, we can get back into the what should it be doing. But just like this. Give us your takes on Medicaid. So we'll start with you.

They may be, they may some may politically be into a place where they're like, suddenly they're, I don't want Medicaid, but I like my turquoise hair because of the way politicians work. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

As we all know, it's a tough time right now, but we have the power to love and care for each other. I really believe that. I got a wife, I got a mom, I got three kids. It is important to love and care for each other and give each other some grace. And today's episode is all about care. We're talking about disability rights. We're here on Monday, March 10th, and as of today, here's the latest.

And we're going to remind them. The FO part is coming. And that's Latin, I want to be clear.

So let's talk about the threats. And like you said, it's coming. Well, it's here. Let's talk about the threats, the things they want to defund or cut. Let's talk about the breadth of what's going on there.

You sound like you're excited to make people scared.

Are there advocates in Congress that you feel like are people who are on the right side of history on this one?

Congress is primed to cut more than $880 billion in funding for Medicaid. Does that sound like a big number? It's a big number. 17 states are suing the U.S. government to end federal protections for disabled individuals. Meanwhile, more than one in four adults in the U.S. report having a disability. Are we really trying to leave behind a quarter of our country and their caregivers?

Woo, I've seen that image, but you just really sort of highlighted it now with like a disabled man. I mean, you know, I feel like every black man gets a cane at some point, whether he needs it or not. But now I'm really understanding it. Yes, he is a disabled man who's saying no cuts to protect his community. Yeah, okay, wow. Yeah. I didn't mean to interrupt. You were flowing.

So one of the things that I just recently learned about, Section 504. Zoe, can you educate me and anybody listening who doesn't know about Section 504?

Is that what we're trying to do? All right, let's take a breath. You've got this, and the ACLU's got you, and they've got a little bit of me, and I'll get a little bit of you, and you get a little bit of me. We'll all get each other. Now, let's get into it. We have two incredible guests joining us today, and I don't use the word incredible lightly.

So just can you say, either one of you, about like what would happen if it's gone, what does that change about, you know, it says any place that gets federal funding, how would that affect somebody, a disabled person who is in a hospital or in a federally funded school, how would that directly affect them?

Zoe Brennan-Krohn is the director of the ACLU's Disability Rights Program. You may recognize her from At Liberty's episodes about Britney Spears and conservatorship. And Nicole Jorwick is the chief of advocacy and campaigns at Caring Across, an organization that is working to build real, helpful, thoughtful care systems. Thank you for joining me today. I really appreciate it.

I can't help but in this, and you referenced this earlier, the idea of the disability community being intersectional before that was a word. Because the idea of like, I think sometimes, and you see this all the time, people talk about communities if they're all separate.

And like the black community, the women community, the disability community, it's like there's a woman who's like, all of those are me. Those are all me. Those are not three separate communities. And I think that when you compound

the discrimination that women get, that black people get, and then a disabled person in that one body, it's like, then you really are at a deficit of care in a place like a hospital, just because of all the stereotypes attached to each one of your separate identities.

Yeah, that's for sure. I forgot. Yeah, there's it's.

No, no, no, you weren't. You weren't. I don't feel good. First of all, you can correct me if you want to. But I also don't feel I just feel like like sort of like, oh, yeah, it just there's just so much to consider, which is why it's important that we stand up for communities that we don't even perceive ourselves to be a part of, because it's going to it's it's touching someone around you.

Before we get started, let's just sort of, at a basic level, introduce yourself and what it is you do in your life and your favorite flavor of muffin.

And also it's going to help lift the weight off you if you stand up for others, even if you don't see yourself as being directly in that community. Absolutely. That was my like, that's like the sound you make before you lift a heavy couch. That's what that sound was like. I was just like, okay, there's a lot of heavy lifting I got to do.

Let's dig into the, before I let you two go, which I really appreciate this again, the legal case, Texas versus Becerra.

And let me guess, Texas is on the that's unconstitutional side.

Just taking a shot.

And I can't help but bring up the fact, just because I think it's worth highlighting, even though I don't really have much to say about it after that, is it's also just worth noting that the governor of Texas is a person with a disability. you know, he, you know, he suffered through an accident or he, that disability got through an accident and you would think, that's all I'll say.

Nice. Now, you mean chocolate all the way through or chocolate chip?

You would think.

Dot, dot, dot, dot. Nicole, unless you want to add something to the dot, dot, dot.

OK. All right. That's with the chocolate chips to Nicole. Super.

OK, we could come back, Nicole. We'll do the Texas edition because I have so much to say. I was like and also voting and also voting suppression and also reproductive rights. And also I can also even though you're a heavily Latino state, Mexican-American state, you target immigration. OK, anyway. Lots to say about Texas. We're wrapping this up. Thank you for doing this. I really appreciate it.

If listeners remember one thing from this conversation, what should it be? Starting with you, Nicole.

Great.

If listeners, back to you, Nicole, if listeners do one thing based on what they heard here, what would you like them to do?

So even if you live in a place like I do where your congressperson is Latifah Simon and she's she's always on the right side of history, frustratingly, so I never get to be mad at Latifah Simon. Call her anyway.

Nice. Zoe, same. What would you say people should do?

I hate to do this, Zoe, right off the bat, but Nicola gave the right answer. Call balls and strikes right at the top.

Zoe, what's giving you hope right now?

You can just retweet it. You can just be like...

A corollary to this, I said that one more question. So this is not a new question. It's a corollary to the last question. What can people do to really make sure that their communities are accessible and intersectional around these issues on a hyperlocal level, like in your neighborhood? What can people do?

I hate to start this in a contentious way, Zoe, but this is where we're at in America. Needless contention. Just kidding. I've had both of those. So let's talk about why this is the work you each choose to do, because I think, as we talked about before we started, this is a conversation talking about disability in this country and people who live with disabilities.

Thank you. Last question. Where can people keep up with you and your work? Nicole?

Medicaid Minute. Now you're speaking my language in time frame. All right. You know how to do this. I like knowledge in a minute.

Thank you. And Zoe, where can people keep up with you?

ACLU.org. If you're listening to this, you already found Zoe. So, yes, if you're listening to this right now, welcome. You're welcome. You found Zoe. Thank you for this. I really appreciate the discussion. I really appreciate the 101 nature of this. I think it's important to have conversations like this with people who know where you can ask this quote-unquote question. not as smart questions.

I'll just put it that way. Or you can ask the basic questions and feel free to make mistakes and say the wrong thing like I did several times today. But I think it's important to be able to have the space so you can walk out more educated and more informed and more fired up and be ready for the FO period. So thank you very much.

And I'll declare it was our first time we ever scored points. You tied. You both tied. I've added up the points.

It's a conversation a lot of people don't have, even though they don't even understand how it touches their life or how it will eventually touch all of our lives. And so I just want to know personally and start with you, Zoe, why is this the work that you choose to do?

Everyone's a winner. Wait a minute. You had to come from behind.

That chocolate muffin thing was really... Thanks to our guests and thanks to you for listening. And remember friends, friends help friends stay in the fight. Join us. And if you enjoyed listening to this episode of At Liberty, please subscribe wherever you get your podcasts and rate and review the show. It really means a lot to us. Give us five stars. We're doing the big work here.

Until next time, I'm your host, W. Kamau Bell. At Liberty is a production of the ACLU. This episode was executive produced by the ACLU's Jessica Herman-Whites and Gwen Schroeder. And who knows best productions? Me, Kelly Rafferty, Ph.D., and Melissa Hudson-Bell, Ph.D., and it was recorded... at the great Skyline Studios in Oakland, California. What's up, Brian?

This show is edited and produced by Erica Ghetto and Mariah Gossett for Good Git.

Nicole, I'm not going to let that go by without highlighting. You just went full on Latin root.

You're making somebody proud because you were like, I'm getting my Latin root knowledge in. And I just want to highlight that that was impressive. And you did it easily. It was not even like a reach. Good job.

I always have to shout out Alice Wong, who's the person who really schooled me on disability and people who live with disabilities. She did it on television on my show, United Shades of America. And also has just been a mentor throughout my, since we've met, about all these issues.

Actually, the first time I met Alice, she was on my Denzel Washington podcast, which I had to bring up because we were talking, me and my co-host, Kevin Avery, were talking about, there's a movie where Denzel Washington plays, and I'm going to get this wrong, but he plays, I think he's a quadriplegic.

confined to a bed and he plays a police officer and the name of the movie is Escape Me, which is going to make my Denzel fans crazy. Angelina Jolie is in it. Zoe, you can read, you can make up something.

The Bone Collector. Got it. The Bone Collector. Yes. Yes. Okay. Points on the board. This is the first time the podcast has had points, so we'll see where this goes. On The Bone Collector, he plays a guy who's a quadriplegic, and he's also a cop, and it's

Sort of, essentially the movie is showing you that he can be a valuable contributing member of his team, even though he's a paraplegic and he's living with a disability.

But Alice pointed out he also must be a rich person living with a disability because of all the things he has that most people who live with disabilities don't have, like a 24-hour aid and the level of equipment that is around him. And so she reached out independently and just said, I would love to come on the podcast and talk to you about that.

And I was like, come on here and talk to us about it. And so through Denzel Washington, another reason he's the greatest actor of all time period, we got to talk about how movies portray people living with disabilities. And so I think that, and confuse the portrayal. And so again, I always have to shout out Alice Wong.

But the thing that I always, that I really remember from learning from her, and I grew up during this era, so you'd think I would know, but in my mind, if somebody had said, when was the American with Disabilities Act released? instituted, I'd have been like, I don't know, the 1900s, like the 20s, like, like, like, you know, like the 1800s.

Like, it seems like we would already have been on top of that. And to find out that even though I lived through it, wasn't aware of it, that was a Clinton era policy just really shows how slow America has been to understand this community. Can you, anything you want to say about that? I'm happy to.

It's just, that's something that always sort of strikes me is how little we know about this and how little we even know the history, most of us.

And yeah, and thank you. I didn't realize it was George Bush. I don't want to look like I'm not giving Republicans credit. That was just, again, shows my ignorance around these things. So as somebody who I think is learning and knows more than I think many people do because of the community I'm around with Alice and Imani Barber is another person. Yeah, still, I don't have access to all of it.

So let's just start at the basic. What, and we'll start with you, Zoe, and Nicole, please fill in. What would you like people who don't engage with this stuff every day like you two do? What is the basics you would like people to know about disability in this country? Even down to like, and I think this is important too, and I've talked about this before, like the preferred terms.

You know, I think right now we live in a time where there's a real push to like take away everybody's preferred use of language and everybody's preferred identifier. So I think, and this is a community that hasn't had that much access to that. So please-

Or why are you yelling at your phone? Right? Yeah, I mean, I think that I just suffer from the, because I'm sort of trying to be, you know, in that instant response thing to keep the algorithm fed. That like, you feel like, I gotta get a thing out about a thing that just happened. Oh, I don't do it. Again, you've reached a velocity that is in a different place.

Genau, es macht die Leute sehnsüchtig. Und ich weiß, dass es einen Wert gibt, weil es so ist, wie das ganze Nonsens funktioniert, dass je mehr ich da draußen bin, um die Leute sehnsüchtig zu machen oder verletzt zu werden oder was auch immer, dann wenn ich sage, hey Leute, könnt ihr das Ding sehen, das ich gerade gemacht habe, damit meine Kinder weiter essen können?

Dann sagen sie, oh ja, er ist schon da.

Könnt ihr Tickets für meine Tour kaufen? Könnt ihr Tickets kaufen? Ja.

Ja, ja, ja. Leute erwarten mehr als nur Lachen.

Yeah, and I think the thing that I feel, especially now, is the responsibility to like, yay, we're all here, let's laugh. I have a way of saying things that make you feel better about things or enlightening you or whatever, blah, blah, blah. But also then my job is to be like, also, here's some things you need to go do once you leave here. Oh, you do that? I do that, yeah.

Do you hand out pamphlets? Das sind QR-Codes, Marc.

Ich habe das in einem Link-Tree. Ich habe einen Freund, der es für mich zusammengebracht hat. Ich muss dich ermutigen, etwas zu tun. Was sind all diese Dinge? Was ist die Liste? Vielleicht sollte ich sie haben.

Es ist nur eine Liste von Themen, die du, wenn du interessiert bist, wie du sie immer finden kannst, in deiner Region, wenn du sie findest, wenn deine Immigrantenrechtsorganisationen immer Hilfe geben. Es gibt eine Organisation namens Donorshoes, von der ich an der Seite bin, die nur die öffentlichen Schulen unterstützt. Ja.

Und du kannst ihnen nur 25 Dollar geben und fühlen, als ob du etwas gemacht hast. Richtig. If you google mutual aid in your area, you can always find organizations that will just take stuff. That will just take your things. And so I feel like those three areas, I feel like are the areas, especially living in California, that are the most impactful immediately.

And not like, maybe go to a protest, maybe, but that's not actually the thing. And then figure out, what do you do for a living? This is what I tell people all the time. And figure out what you can do from your job, so you don't actually have, it's not always about going somewhere. What are you doing at your job?

But I don't think it's always about speaking up at work. It's also just about Es gibt Leute in deiner Arbeit, die deine Unterstützung nutzen können, die du vielleicht nicht gerade denkst. Ich meine nicht, dass du auf der Bühne stehst und Sachen überfliegst, aber du kannst mit Leuten arbeiten, die nicht dokumentiert sind oder nicht in Status sind. Und dann kannst du sagen, hey, was brauchst du?

Was kann ich tun? Ich brauche eine Kasserole. Weißt du, was ich meine? Ich denke, dass wir uns zu sehr in die Kasserole mit einem Passwort befinden. Genau. Genau. Ich denke, wir sind zufällig bei den großen, riesigen Dingen.

Und es ist so, dass die meisten von ihnen, wie zum Beispiel, es gibt all diese Boykott-Sprache über Boykotten von Target und Boykotten von Walmart, weil sie sich aus der DEI entlastet haben. Sie werfen all ihre DEI-Stuffe weg. Und die Leute sind so, Boykott! Und die Leute denken, Boykott ist nur ein magischer Harry Potter-Wort.

Also wenn es ein Boykott ist, muss es organisiert werden. Ich habe immer mit dem Montgomery Bus Boykott gesprochen. Sie haben die Bussysteme boykottiert, aber sie haben auch die Leute sichergestellt, dass sie in der Schule arbeiten können. Weil man kann nicht nur sagen, boykottiere die Bussysteme.

For a lot of people who live in parts of the country, that's the thing. That's the store. They killed all the mom and pop stores. So a lot of black activists are like, we can't just say boycott like it's the same. And we can't say boycott without, how do you make sure people get what they need if they don't go to those places?

For sure.

Exactly. Well, and I think for me, like, it's just like, I'm going to try to like, you know, I'm in the position where like, I can shop at bookstores in my neighborhood that I'm paying more than I would at Amazon, but it just feels better. You know what I mean? Sure. I can do that, but not everybody can do that. You know what else you can do? What? Just ask the publisher for the book.

Untertitelung. BR 2018

Do you know who I am? You don't even need that. They know who you are. I like to say that for Disneyland and amusement parks.

That's where I use the hookups. I get a lot of books. I get books sent to me.

And you did it? I did it, yeah. And this was after everyone pulled out? Well, no. This is why I think the algorithm is so funny, because I have people approaching me now on the street literally saying like, are you going to do that date still? I did it two weeks ago. So the algorithm has confused people about what the details are. Oh, so it hadn't happened yet.

So the date has happened, but what happened was I was on the flight headed to D.C. as Trump announced he was taking it over. Okay. So it was like nobody had pulled out, because it had just happened. But you were able to speak about it. Ja, also ich, also ich war so, dass die Kennedys zu mir gerufen haben, weil sie mir sagten, dass sie es verstanden hätten, wenn ich aufhören würde.

Aber die ganze Prämisse von Trump zu sagen, ich will keine wachsende Sachen da drin haben, war so, dass er mich nicht will. Richtig. Also werde ich so wach wie ich kann. Richtig. Für mich fühlte sich das so, dass es verschiedene Wege gibt, um das zu tun.

Es gibt den Weg, dass ich dir meine Dienste nicht geben will, oder es gibt den Weg, dass ich da rein gehe und werde das, was du mich nicht wollen willst. Und in dem Raum, in dem du mich nicht wollen willst. Klar. Ja. Ja.

No, so when I was headed there, Shonda Rhimes had pulled out, Ben Folds, and they're on the board, they didn't have dates there. And then Issa Rae had an event that was sold out that was later in March and she cancelled. And so when Issa Rae cancelled, there was a little bit of people coming up like, why aren't you supporting Issa Rae cancelled?

Und ich dachte mir, ich gehe und sie werden mich auslösen. Wenn sie mich nicht auslösen, dann werde ich es wirklich machen. Ich werde die Geister von Lenny Bruce und Dick Gregory channeln und es so machen, wie ich es gemacht habe. Und es gibt auch 1.500 Leute, die in D.C. leben, die was wir in D.C. erleben. Ja. Yeah, yeah.

Und ich denke, für mich war es so, dass ich die Nacht, und ich wusste nicht, was die Planung war, ich schreibe zurück, um zu denken, vielleicht sage ich das, weil all diese Dinge passieren. Und dann später war es so, als es geschrieben wurde, wie die ersten 20 Minuten, war es im Grunde einfach so, hey, Leute, wir sind hier. Ja, das Kennedy Center, gebt es an die Leute im Hintergrund.

Ja, ich habe Lachen darüber gemacht. Ich sage, du weißt, nach United Shades, ich sage, danke, danke für euren Service an alle. Ja. Nicht nur militärische Leute. Also danke für deine Hilfe, wenn du hier gerade arbeitest. Und es gab einen Protest am Vordergrund, einen Tanzprotest von Drag-Queens. Und ich bin da rausgegangen und habe mit ihnen verabredet. Und habe es für sie gegeben.

Und habe gesagt, wir sind hier in diesem Moment, wir machen das. Es gab Lachen, aber einige von ihnen waren an diesem Punkt nur unformale Statements. Aber es hat alle gesettelt und realisiert, dass ich in diesem mit dir bin. Und jetzt werde ich dir über meine Kinder erzählen.

That's exactly right. Now I'll do the bits. Now I'll do the thing that I came here to do. I was a little bit afraid that people would be like, get back to how democracy is falling. But they actually want to hear about the kids. They don't want to just stay in that place.

You're not Mort Saul with the newspaper?

Nein, und ich denke, für mich ist das, wo ich diese Idee hatte, dass ich nicht tatsächlich, diese sind die Teile davon, die ich mich interessiere und für Jokes habe. Ich werde nicht durch die Nachrichten mit dir. Ich glaube nicht, dass ich Takes habe, die irgendwie so sind. Ich habe keine Takes wie das.

Yeah, that's my main thing. Wake the fuck up. That's my main thing to be like, you know, after the Elon Musk Nazi salute, I'm like, okay, we have, if we can't be clear about this, we're doomed.

And that's who you are? There's a whole generation of comedians who have been confused about the fact that they're smart for comedians and thinking that means that they're smart generally.

Und ich denke, dass es eine ganze Menge Komedien gibt, die für ihre Hot-Takes und politische... Ja, für einen Komedian machst du einen guten Job, aber du machst nicht einen guten Job für jemanden, der darüber nachdenkt.

The whole Rogans fear of comedians under him who are proud to show up and sit at the inauguration. Dude, you've just been bought and I don't think you even sold yourself for that much.

But you're also, nobody can question your comedy bona fides

That's my whole point. That's my whole point. In my return to comedy at this point, I didn't do it for five years. You didn't? I was out for five years. Five years? Yeah. Ja, ja, ja. Also, als Covid aufgetreten ist, dachte ich mir, vielleicht bin ich wirklich raus, weil ich schon ein paar Jahre raus gewesen bin. Ja.

Ja. Und so, als ich zu Hause war, würde ich sagen, ich will nicht mehr Stand-Up machen, weil ich nicht so oft zu Hause bin. Und so dachte ich, dass ich verabredet bin. Aber dann, als ich zurückgekommen bin, war Teil dessen, mit dem ich kämpfen musste, dass ich nicht in den Punchline gehen wollte, am Sonntagabend und in der Rückseite stehen wollte. Ich wollte es nicht so machen.

Weil das ist das, was ich finde, das ist das, was ich, Comedy, du musst in den Club gehen.

Nein, aber du weißt, was ich meine.

Aber ich wollte es nicht machen. Ich wollte nicht mein Haus verlassen. Ja, ja, für die 15 Minuten. Für die 15 Minuten. Und du hast all das gespart. Ich denke, ich bin froh, dass ich das gemacht habe. Ja. Aber dann habe ich gesagt, du machst das nicht. Aber jetzt bin ich 50 oder 45.

Und wenn ich aus meinem Haus raus will, will ich wirklich produktiv sein. Ich will nicht abhängen. Also habe ich entschieden, es ist okay, es nicht so zu tun. Und so habe ich angefangen, eine Stunde zu booken. Der Berkley-Ref hatte einen kleinen 60-Sieger-Theater.

8-Week-Residency. Ich wollte nur einen Platz haben, um Geld zu verdienen. Das ging gut. Dann habe ich zwei Shows am Samstag gemacht. Es waren vier und sieben, weil ich zivilisiert bin. Da habe ich die Zeit zurückgebracht, weil ich es in meinem Weg gemacht habe. Ich bin noch nicht in den Club gegangen, um ein kleines Set zu machen. Es ist nicht für mich. Ich mache das für sehr spezifische Gründe.

Yeah, well, you're like, you're, again, you've done all the, like, you've done that work, you know?

And maybe not. And that's why I have nine jobs. That's why I have not put all my chips on stand-up comedy.

Der nächste Club, den ich spiele, ich spiele meistens im Theater, aber ich mache einen normalen Wochenende in einem Club in San Diego, dem Mic Drop Comedy Club. Ich weiß nicht, was das ist. Ja, nein, ich wusste es auch nicht. Aber ich dachte, das ist ein normaler Club mit einem Freitagabend-Second-Show und es ist 10 Uhr und es ist San Diego. Und es ist einfach so, ich werde etwas finden.

Du wirst die Stunde machen? Ich werde die Stunde machen. Vielleicht mache ich die 45 Minuten. Vielleicht, weißt du, vielleicht ist das, wenn ich einige der alten Sachen ausbreite. Ja,

So, I'm actually more nervous about that than I was at the Kennedy Center. Of course you are.

No, I think, you know, I came up in that world, but I think for me, I wouldn't have been able to build up, I wouldn't have been able to, if I was just going out and doing showcases, I couldn't build the hour. Yeah, because you can't do it in pieces. No, you can't sort of like, I know I'm lost here, but I gotta be lost to find out where I'm trying to get to, so, yeah.

Yeah, well, that's the great thing about having taken such a break is that I have a lot of stories that have happened in the last five years. So I don't feel like I'm like scraping the barrel. Yeah.

Genau, sie geht in die Hochschule. Die guten Dinge sind auf dem Weg. Ja, das wird alles passieren. Wer ist dieser Kerl? Ja, genau. I got to tell her when she was 12, she told me something that one of the boys in her class had done that was stupid. And I was like, hey, from the ages of 12 to 30, boys are just trash. And so you should just know that.

And then I told other people, other women were like, it's older than 30. I was like, yeah, I know, but I didn't want to bum her out. For always. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Maybe they will always be trash. Yeah. But like...

Nein, nein, nein, sie glauben definitiv. Ich weiß von Leuten, die da waren, dass sie von den Leuten, die es runten, geholfen wurden, dass sie mehr christliche Aktien und mehr國家ische Aktien wollen. Richtig. Was lustig ist, weil es ist wie, ich weiß, es ist das Kennedy Center für dich, aber es ist wirklich nur ein Venue in D.C., No, of course. And D.C.

is not, you know, if you want to move the Kennedy Center to Branson, Missouri, you can do that. But D.C. is a place where there are more drag queens that are probably going to perform there in a year than country music acts. And not that they don't do country music.

It's often like, we're like, why are they saying you like that? I love you. It's very like, not just a girl. Nicht ein Mädchen überhaupt. Nicht ein Mädchen überhaupt. Es ist das große Du.

Das Thou-Du. Thou. Das heilige Thou. Aber ja, Rihanna und Giddens sind verabschiedet. Und ich verstehe es. Ich denke, ein Komiker ist in einer einzigen Position, in der man direkt zu dem, was los ist, sprechen kann. Wenn du ein Musiker bist, kannst du das, aber das ist nicht wirklich, was du tust.

Und besonders, wenn du ein Comic wie uns bist, kannst du literally sagen, ich werde nur sprechen und wir werden später zu den Lachen kommen. Und ich denke, dass ich in einer einzigen Position war, aber die Leute wollen dich auf der einen Seite oder der anderen stellen. Und ich sage, nein, ich bin alt genug, um zu erinnern und zu lernen, dass das Silberreich-Movie nicht war.

Manchmal war es um Boykotts und manchmal war es um Sit-Ins und manchmal war es um spontane Aktion. Es ist nicht nur eine Sache.

Well, I think one way, first of all, every time I see a group of white, old white people yelling at their congressmen... But that's the only ones who are left to do it.

Yeah, of course. Because they're the last ones to believe. They're the ones who always think the system's on their side, even though there's evidence to show them that the town is right. But they're also the ones that were at the old protests. And at the January 6th. But I think the fact that those people are so clearly angry this early about what's going on is a sign of like...

A sign that things could get better, but we need to invite those people in and not freeze them out. Are you talking about conservatives? Yeah, I'm talking about regular white folks.

No, no, no. They're going to show up. I went to that protest a couple weeks ago in Berkeley. It's great, but it's not the one that moves the needle. The one that moves the needle is these white, MAGA-hatted people who are older, who are like, you're fucking my Social Security up.

Well, I think everybody has a thing about, you're not talking about me. If you're saying something bad, you're not talking about me. And I think that's what it was. And now they realize, no, they were talking, he is coming after your, not coming after woke Social Security, he's coming after your Social Security.

They will. But also, they really don't care about those white people. And those white people are finding out. So for me, the fact that those people have turned so early is a good sign. Well, yeah. And also, they don't care if they die. No. And there's going to come a point, which we're going to have a number to point to, that's like this many people died because of this thing that they did.

So if they screw up somebody's Social Security, there's people who will miss one check and die. Yeah. You know what I mean?

Yeah. So I just think that, like, those... The more we have people like these white MAGA people who realize they're getting screwed over, the more that... All these Trumpers start to see that like, wait, you've seen this happen. Wait, Elon can do a Nazi salute, but if I do it, I get fired. The more you start to learn, you're not like them. They're not like you.

And they're not going to help you get your job back when you get fired for trying to be like them.

Yeah. Das ist genau das, was es ist. Das ist genau das, was es ist. Steve Bannon hat es gemacht. Du kannst sagen, er hat es gemacht, weil er sagt, ich glaube, wir machen das jetzt. Ich bin ein bisschen nervös darüber. Ja, ich fühle mich nicht so gut darüber, aber ich versuche, Dads Aufmerksamkeit zu bekommen.

Und ich dachte auch, dass ich mehr in der Sitzung der Macht wäre. Ich bin außerhalb des Hauses, um wieder reinzukommen. Er wird wieder reinkommen. Ich denke, nicht du? Ich meine, ich denke, Trump geht durch die Leute. Was ist dein persönlicher Niveau von Angst auf der täglichen Ebene? Also, ich bin super froh, dass ich in Oakland lebe. Ich möchte nur klar sein.

Und ich habe mit meinen Kindern gesprochen, die Nacht, als Trump gewonnen hat. Da gab es eine ganze Rede darüber, dass wir, obwohl das für das Land schlecht ist, wir glücklich sind, dass wir beide leben. Wir leben in Kalifornien, wir leben in der Bay Area und wir leben in Oakland. Es fühlt sich an, als ob es sich immer mehr und mehr beschädigt, als wir da sind. Was ist Oakland jetzt so?

I mean, Oakland, like every city is going through it, but it has been really used as a way to, like the Doom Loop stuff out of San Francisco has been sort of the idea that like the city is falling apart. It is definitely going through it, but it is not, it is a great city. The Doom Loop? The Doom Loop. Has hit Oakland? Yeah, yeah. The tales of the Doom Loop.

Just the idea that there is no opportunity. The vacuum of tech money. The vacuum of people left in the pandemic. Basically, people left the Bay Area after the pandemic, but the housing prices didn't come down. Yeah, and there's a lot of empty real estate. And there's a ton of homeless people. There's a ton of encampments all over the city. Right.

So it's like you can see the poverty in a way that people who grew up in Oakland their whole lives are like, yeah, maybe it was more violent when I was a kid, but it wasn't this desperate.

Yep, yeah, yeah. Über die ganze Stadt. Also, der Bürgermeister von Oakland wurde gerade erwähnt. Barbara Lee, unsere Kommissarin, ist der Bürgermeister. Es geht definitiv über einige Transitionen, aber es ist immer noch ein guter Ort für mich, um meine Familie zu erinnern.

Ja, und bist du in der Stadtpolitik involviert? Ja, in einer Art und Weise, dass ich mit einem Gruppe von Aktivisten und Filmmachern helfe. Boots Riley ist einer davon. Wie geht es mit diesem Mann?

Boots is like, he's working, he's making a new TV show. I don't know how, he sells these weird projects to people and makes them, but Boots is not, he has new hats every now and again. Yeah, literally. Yeah, he literally has new hats, but I've never been like, man, Boots seems to be going through a rough time. Unsere Kinder tanzen beide auf dem gleichen Tanzplatz. Er ist ein absoluter Hustler.

Wir sind auf der Seite eines Gruppes namens Cinemama. Er hat mich auf der Seite von lokalen Künstlern eingeladen, die versuchen, dass Oakland ein mehr lebendiger Ort für Künstler und Filmmacher ist. Ich musste mit einigen Leuten in der Stadt arbeiten, um Oakland zu übernehmen. Das gleiche Taxi-Incentives, die man in Toronto bekommt, damit es in Oakland verfügbar ist. Oh, wirklich?

Ja, also wir haben sie verabschiedet, es ist nur, dass die Stadt zu kaputt ist, um damit wirklich etwas zu tun. Aber ja, ich habe für das erste Mal in meinem Leben, ich habe eigentlich die Art von Organisierung gemacht, die ich immer nicht gemacht habe. Wie die, lass uns zu Beratungen gehen und lass uns schlafen gehen.

Ja, das ist das, was ich in der Gegend ausgewählt habe. Ich werde nicht das Kriminalproblem lösen, aber wenn wir Hollywood können, wenn wir es einfach machen können, Leute hier zu filmen, dann sind das Jobs. Ja. Und es gibt auch Menschen, die hier leben, einen Weg, um zu bleiben. Ja. Ja.

I mean, there is definitely like, before even Trump dropped out of the, before he even took over the Kennedy Center, they called me at one point and were like, we're going to hire security. And I know whenever I get that call, that like something has happened. You know, so I know that like we live in a time where a guy like me, who's out here calling Nazis, Nazis, Ja. Ja. Ja. Ja.

Sometimes I'll say things and she'll see the internet get upset and like this Kennedy Center thing. And it's like, she's just like, whew, like there's a sense of like, this could come home to us. You know what I mean? Yeah. And we've gotten hate mail, not in a while, but there's times we've gotten hate mail and stuff. And so it's just the thing.

When I was on CNN. Yeah. Cause I was just lumped in with the whole crew. Yeah. Yeah. So, you know, I, Ich weiß, dass ich das Volumen auf ein paar Sachen schalten kann, um es mir einfacher zu machen, aber ich habe es einfach nicht in mir. Ich wüsste nicht, was ich tun würde. Ja, ja, ja.

Yeah, after the show. The thing that I also have is I can feel like there's a lot of, especially because a lot of security people are black often, and they will be like, they will take extra care. I feel like I'm getting extra care because they know what I'm going through and what I'm out there doing. So it's a thing. Sometimes I can feel people really watching out for me in ways. Oh, that's good.

Yeah, no, I... Wer wusste, dass ich... Ich bin auch... Als 52-jähriger grünhafter Mann bin ich in meinen Unk-Jahren. Leute sehen mich als den alten Mann, der... Wir müssen ihn schützen.

Ich bin ein Pillar der Gemeinschaft. Ich war nie ein G, aber ich bin ein OG.

Ich war nie cool genug, ein G zu sein. Er hat die Geschichten. Jetzt habe ich einige Geschichten. Ich habe drei Kinder und... We did a doc that they were in, and me and my wife talked a lot about, should we do this? It's a constant negotiation of what should I be doing, how much should we be doing, how much should I be putting them out there?

It's a constant negotiation about how to move through the world.

Ich will nicht sagen, dass ich auf eine Art und Weise aufgewachsen bin, aber die Karriere, die ich gewählt habe, da muss ich mich nicht nur um meine Lebensversion kümmern. Die Art und Weise, wie ich meine Karriere gewählt habe, es wäre viel einfacher für mich als Mensch, einen Vier-Hour-Dokumentar über Bill Cosby nicht zu machen.

Ich meine, ich wusste, wenn ich da war, dass viele黑ere Leute... Ich gehe immer in die黑ere Leute auf den Straßen, insbesondere黑ere Jungs, die in meinem Alter waren, die sagten, Bruder, ich mag alles, was du gemacht hast, außer das und das. Und die wollten mir den Riot-Akt über das Ding lesen. Oh, warum musstest du ihn unter den Bus legen?

Yeah, I mean, he must have taken a lot, too. But Ezra's like a ghost. You don't see him. I'm out there in the streets. I'm out there like, I'm running for king of show business, where Ezra's just like, I don't know where he is. It was the work. I think he's in New York. Well, yeah, and he just did that nine-hour Prince talk that's never going to come out. Why?

Because the Prince people don't like it. Oh, wirklich? Es sind neun Stunden. Es ist ein Netflix-Neun-Stunden-Doc über Prinzen. Und in klassischer Ezra-Fashion sollte es ein fünf-Stunden-Doc sein. Und er hat einen neun-Stunden-Doc gemacht. Ja. Und sie mögen nicht all die Dinge, die er gemacht hat. Also wird er wahrscheinlich nicht das Licht des Tages sehen. Und es ist fertig. Wow. Ja.

Nichts, was er tun kann. Nicht willig, es zu ändern. Nicht willig, es zu ändern. Ich denke, er könnte viel tun. Er könnte es nach dem, was sie wollen, schneiden. Er könnte all ihre Noten nehmen. Ja. Aber er macht das nicht.

Ich habe es verstanden. Ich meine, wie gesagt, als ein Typ, der in dieser Ära geboren wurde, weiß ich, was die Leute in Cosby investieren. Ich weiß, dass ich die schwarze Perspektive habe, dass wir zusammenhängen müssen. Ich verstehe es, aber es ist auch so, dass nicht jeder von uns uns schmerzt. Es war nicht überraschend. Ich habe mir vorgestellt, dass all die schlimmsten Dinge passieren könnten.

Ich glaube, eine der tollen Dinge, wenn man ein Komedian ist, ist, dass man eine aktive Vorstellung hat. Also wusste ich, dass jemand eine Sache veröffentlicht, über die wir reden müssen, über W. Kamau Bell, weil das war, dass wir über Cosby reden müssen. Und das ist auf YouTube passiert. Jemand hat gesagt, dass wir über W. Kamau Bell reden müssen.

Und ich sah all die Comedy-Dinge, all die Black-Comedy-Dinge, die ich auf YouTube sehe, die über Black-Comedy reden. Sie haben mich nicht verstanden. Ich war so, oh ja. Für diesen Grund?

Ja, oder der weiße Mann sagt dir, bla bla bla bla bla. Aber eines der tollen Dinge, wenn man älter wird, ist, dass ich bei der Arbeit stehe. Ich weiß, dass es gut ist. Und ohne dass du mir meine Kinder erholt hast, gebe ich mir keine Ruhe.

Wer muss darüber sprechen? Wir müssen darüber sprechen, dass es ein WC Mobile Video wird? Nein, ich will das nicht sehen. Aber ja, es ist immer noch ein Net Plus, weil ich denke, dass mehr Menschen glücklich sind, dass wir die Konversation hatten. Auch mit Diddy runter zu gehen. Es ist einfach sehr klar, dass Showbiz schrecklich ist und wir müssen die schrecklichen Teile entfernen.

Ich denke, die Geschichten der Black Manga sind sehr exageriert. Ich denke, es gibt viel mehr darüber, als es eigentlich ist.

Ja, und diese Leute dauern nicht sehr lange. Ich denke, Black Men haben für Kamala Harris 87 Prozent gewählt. Ja. Das ist viel höher als weiße Frauen und weiße Männer. Ich denke, es ist ein Gesprächspunkt, den die Leute benutzen, weil wir versuchen versuchen, es an schmutzigen Menschen zu verurteilen. Und es ist ein guter Weg, schmutzige Menschen zu verurteilen.

Oder ist es Verurteilung oder ist es wie, guck, wir haben einige? Ja, wir, naja, sie müssen auch einige haben. Sie müssen, sie müssen den Mann haben, der ein schmutziger Freund ist. Ja, ja, ja. Ich war auf Instagram und dieser Kerl kam nach mir, sprach über etwas, was ich gesagt habe.

Und ich erinnere mich, er war der schmutzige, gayer Kerl, der an einem MAGA-Event war und sich ausgeschlagen hat und das N-Word genannt hat. And he was a MAGA guy at a MAGA event and they bullied him out of the event. And he's still a MAGA guy. And I'm like, aren't you that guy? He's like, yeah, alright man, take care. He's like, we don't need to debate anything. You've shown me who you are.

Yeah, and it's a pathology that's beyond politics. No, no, it's definitely about, like, something with your family and your dad. Yeah, there's something broken. And I'm not gonna be mad at you, but I'm not gonna, you know, I'm well beyond, like, debate me, bro.

Yeah, exactly. That's a good one.

Exactly, exactly. That's all I want, is empathy. Yeah, so I don't, you know, I think black magas are a convenient way to not really attract the problem of like, it's actually white people.

That's the questionable one. But that's the funny thing, but it never, the grift doesn't ever last that long.

Ich würde sagen, die weißen Grifte bekommen eine längere Grifte-Winne. Das ist alles, was ich sagen würde. Bill O'Reilly hat eine wirklich lange Grifte-Winne. Tucker Carlson hat eine lange Grifte-Winne. Glenn Beck. Aber die schwarzen Grifte bekommen generell nicht so lange eine Winne. Sie bekommen nicht zehn Jahre Grifte.

Yeah, and you gotta fake it till you make it. There's a lot of like, if I pretend I'm on this side, I will somehow, my net worth will come up to be on this side. And I think they're relying on the fact that most people Die Leute, die eine kleine Anzahl an Politikern bezahlen, sind eine kleine Anzahl von Menschen. Ja. Also muss man keine Fakten und Figuren haben, um jemanden zu überzeugen.

Man muss einfach Vibes haben. Ja. Also glaube ich, dass sie sich auf den Fakt, dass, besonders jetzt, dass so viel der MAGA-Movement mit Mannheit und Mächtigkeit und dem Andrew Tate-Ding verbunden ist.

Ja.

Yeah, but these guys have no game. And speaking as a person who did not have a lot of game, you're de-gaming yourself.

It wasn't soccer, it was Highline. It was a very specific game. Yeah, my game didn't travel well. So yeah, I just think that like, you have like, been, you know, like there's been all, like Andrew Tate is the greatest example of this. Like, you are pretending to be a person that you're not. You're also a sex trafficker.

And you're telling guys, if you pay me a thousand dollars a month, you will just, that will help you be more like me. But really all I want is thousands of dollars a month. And there's no being like me, because I'm not real.

Wenn du die Distanz zwischen den zwei Leuten siehst, ist es wie ein Kreditkartenschein. Du bekommst eine Anzeige am Ende des E-Mails. Das ist richtig. Was sagst du deinen Kindern, die das verstehen können? 13, 10 und 6, die können es alle auf irgendeinem Niveau verstehen.

Es ist lustig, meine Frau ist katholisch, ich bin nur schwarzer Christ, was auch immer das bedeutet. Aber wir haben beide viel Kirche und Mass gemacht, aber unsere Kinder machen das nicht. Wir haben das mit ihnen nicht gemacht, weil meine Frau nicht fühlte, dass wir sie zur katholischen Mass nehmen müssen, weil sie eine sinnvolle, glaubwürdige Person ist. Und das ist schrecklich. Ja, ja, ja.

Aber wir, sicherlich, eine der großen Dinge, über die wir reden, ist nur Gratuität. Weil ich denke, meine Kinder können sehen und viele Dinge machen, die sie nicht machen würden, wenn es nicht für meine Karriere wäre.

Und es ist wirklich wichtig für mich, einfach klar zu sein, dass du das nicht verdienst. Wie gesagt, ich nutze meinen Celebrity-Status, um uns in die Universal Studios zu bringen. Aber am Ende des Tages war das eine tolle Sache, die wir gemacht haben. Diese Leute sind nett, da, da, da, da. Lass dich nicht wie ein Arschloch arbeiten, weil du in die Universal Studios gehst.

Und für mich ist Gratitude ein großer Teil davon. Und auch das, wir sprechen darüber, es ist unser Familienjob, um die Welt einen besseren Ort zu machen. Ist das ein Checklist? Ja, es beginnt mit dem Kleinen deiner Wohnung. Okay. Es beginnt mit dem... Machen dein Bett. Ja, Machen dein Bett. Nicht, dass ich überhaupt groß bin.

Aber es beginnt mit dem, dass du gut in deinem Bereich bist und dann in die Welt gehst. Eines der besten Dinge als Vater, die du sehen kannst, ist, wenn dein Kind jemandem in der Welt hilft, ohne dir etwas zu sagen. Ja, ja. Also für mich ist es wie, dass meine Kinder das tun und sehen, wie... Sammy, ich hab auch Mixed-Race-Kinder, also kann ich ein paar Sachen nicht einfach wegnehmen.

Wenn du einen schwarzen Mann auf der Straße siehst, lachst du an ihm. Egal, ob du ihn kennst oder nicht. Du lachst an ihm, klingelst an ihm, weil er dich sehen wird und er will wissen, dass du ihn zurückkommst. Du sagst Hallo, klingelst an ihm, nennst ihn Ma'am. Das ist ein Teil dessen, was es ist, in unserer Gemeinschaft zu sein. Wir sind letztes Jahr in Alabama gegangen, weil von Covid-19.

Und ich dachte mir, alle schwarzen Frauen, die du kennst, werden denken, dass du ein Baby bist, aber du hast sie noch nie kennengelernt. Und du musst verstehen, dass sie dich huggen und küssen werden. Ich kann es nicht nicht sagen, dass ich es nicht tun würde, wenn ich schwarze Kinder mit zwei schwarzen Eltern in einer schwarzen Umgebung hätte. Oh, so do you have family in Alabama?

My dad lives in Mobile, Alabama. Really? Yeah. Forever? It was, yeah, born and raised there. Has lived other places, but he really likes being a big fish in a small town. What kind of fish is he? He was an insurance guy. An insurance fish? He was the insurance commissioner for the state of Alabama at one point.

So he's like a really like, he's the guy that people go, when are you going to run for mayor? But he's like, he's a really big fish in that town. Really? Yeah. Walter Bell. Oh, wow. Walter Bell. Ja, also in den letzten zehn Jahren habe ich ihn nur in dieser Stadt getroffen. Jetzt sagen die Leute, oh, ich habe deinen Sohn gesehen. Jetzt ist er mein Vater, aber seit Jahren war ich sein Sohn.

Oh yeah, for sure. If I go there, it's not about... I saw you on TV, but I also saw you in your diapers. And I know your grandmother. And people were like, come on, good to see you again. And I'm like, I have no idea who this person is.

Yeah. The governor always hates us. Like, you know, so like, it's not like, it's not new for the governor. It's like occasionally you get a nice, a nicer Republican governor. Right now they have a bad one. K. Ivey, den sie Meemaw nennen. Aber ja, der Gouverneur ist immer gegen uns. Sie nehmen uns immer von uns. Also müssen wir es immer auf uns selbst herausfinden. Richtig, richtig.

Und es ist mehr so, hier gehen wir wieder. Hier gehen wir wieder. Und ich muss mit Maga-Lebenden zusammenkommen, weil ich nicht mit Maga-Lebenden sprechen kann.

In the South, for sure.

Different hat. I always say, every place in America is racist. If you're lucky, you get to live in a place where you fit with the style of racism. You get to pick. I couldn't do Boston racism. No, because then you're going to live in another part of the city.

Ja, ja, ja. Was war deine Erfahrung in Boston? Oh. Oh yeah? Yeah, like I met Matt and Ben Affleck.

And they were like, ah, you're a Boston guy.

They sure can. They're funny, man. Yeah, no, it's, so yeah, so, but again, moving around a lot as a kid, that's why I think I sort of feel like I understand this country in a way that a lot of people don't, because I saw a lot of it.

Yeah, he's gonna fuck with the museums. Ja. Ich glaube, er wird sich nur nicht mit Dingen verletzen, wenn sie nicht an seinen Tisch kommen. Aber ich glaube absolut. Das Afroamerikanische Museum dort ist unglaublich. Unglaublich. Es ist einfach unglaublich. Ich habe meine Kinder dort genommen und es war wie... Ich habe es gesehen, als es zuerst geöffnet wurde.

Und ich habe gesagt, ich muss meine Kinder hier bringen. Und ich bin so glücklich, dass ich gewartet habe, weil sie es alle auf verschiedenen Ebenen genossen haben. Und wir, wie... Sie hätten geblieben. Und als ich ein Kind war, hätte ich das nicht gemacht. Ich habe nicht... Museums waren auch anders. Aber ja, also... Ich wundere mich, was passiert ist. Theoretisch...

Yeah, no, for sure. Or just make it harder to deal with. Like, we're gonna, like, you know, change the hours, or we're gonna charge money. Because they're all free, but they could just decide, now it's gonna be... 50 Dollar. Wie sagen sie nicht, dass das die Hauptstadt von D.E.I. ist? Ich kenne den Mann, der dieses Museum betreibt, und ich möchte zu ihm kommen und sagen, hey, Mann.

Wie handelst du dich mit D.E.I.? Gibt es etwas, was ich für dich tun kann?

Wir brauchen mehr Weiße. Sie werden die Slavery-Story anders erzählen. They live together. You know, they got, slaves got free room and board. You gotta do that as a bit. They'll just change, because the lower level now is super intense and depressing.

Hi, I'm Kid Rock, here to tell you about slavery.

Das ist lustig. Aber ja, das Lustige ist, dass mein mittlerer Kind 10 Jahre alt ist. Und sie ist jetzt so alt, dass ich sie mit mir auf die Straße mitgenommen habe. Ich hatte eine Gag in Colorado State University, ich glaube, es war in Fort Collins. Und dann hatte ich eine Gag in Portland und ein Podcast. Und ich habe sie mit mir auf die Straße mitgenommen.

Und es ist wie ein 10-Jähriger auf der Straße mit dir. Und es war großartig. Ja. Es war einfach so. Ja, lernen Dinge und die Flughafen herauszufinden und auch zu wissen, dass wir hier bleiben müssen, weil wir hier gehen müssen. Ja, du wirst auf der Bühne sein, du wirst hier sitzen. Und es war wirklich lustig, in einer Art, dass es nicht lustig ist, wenn ich mich selbst verliebe.

Aber an der dritten Nacht war sie so, ja, komm, wir machen das gleiche. Sie gibt Noten, sie gibt Noten. Letzte Nacht hast du gesagt, es ist lustiger. Sie tut das, sie tut das, was ich eigentlich erfreue. Es ist wie, danke, du hast recht, ich habe es lustiger gesagt letzte Nacht. Es gibt diesen Moment, wo du sagst, wer auch immer deine Freundin ist, du musst heute Abend nicht kommen.

Du hast es gesehen, ich habe keine neuen Sachen. Oder wenn sie fragen, hast du keine neuen Sachen? Oh nein. Vielleicht eine Sache.

Ich bleibe zu Hause. Ja. Ja, meine Kinder haben viel gefahren, was großartig ist, weil ich denke, es ist einfach der Vorteil. Aus dem Land auch? Ein bisschen, aber nicht so stark wie... Covid hat ziemlich früh in ihrem Leben geschehen, also... Wie siehst du jetzt den Effekt davon?

Also meine 6-Jährige, glaube ich... Es ist einfach sehr klar, dass sie nicht sozialisiert war, in der Zeit, in der ihre Schwestern waren. Also, ich spreche über meine Tatsache, meine Tatsache ist, dass sie fern ist. Ja. Aber sie ist wirklich so... Sie hat einfach nicht... Es gibt eine ganze Generation von Kindern, Wenn du in ihre erste Klasse gehst, ist es nur ein bisschen Chaos.

Und es ist nicht die Schuld der Lehrer. Aber es ist eine ganze Generation von Kindern, die als zwei Jahre alt waren, nicht mit anderen Kindern zusammengearbeitet haben.

Oh, du kannst es wirklich sehen. Du kannst es völlig sehen.

Ich habe alle meine Freunde, die Kinder hatten, die Transitionen machten. Kinder, die in die Mittelschule gingen, als Covid-19 schlug, oder Kinder, die in die Hochschule gingen, sind alle ein bisschen gewechselt, weil ihre neue Erfahrung nicht das war, was sie glaubten, es wäre. Sie wurden nicht in die Sie hatten nicht die Zeit, die sie in den Vorjahren hatten.

Meine Großvaterin, von der ich in dem Buch geschrieben habe, war in der Schule und hatte den ganzen Plan, in D.C. zu gehen und konnte nicht alles machen. Wir werden die Auswirkungen auf diese Kinder für immer sehen.

Yeah, I think that like that's when they really dug it. It's so weird that you would think Trump wasn't the president as much as they've talked about, as much as they've talked about how how badly COVID was handled. You know, that was you, right? Right. You know, you did that. You know, the vaccine. Yeah. Yeah. And I think that like... And what...

No, it's about the fact that, and also, we as a culture have been through, not that we remember, but we've been through this before. It's not like this is the first time a pandemic has hit, but because we don't know our history, and we don't trust the history books, even if we read them, and because we love, for some reason, the coolest thing to be is somebody who knows nothing and asks questions.

Like, I don't know anything, but I still have questions. Also ich denke, dass die Frau die Stimme der Person so laut ist wie die Stimme der Expertin. Und diese Person wird immer lauter sein, weil... Ja, aber das Problem ist, ich weiß nichts, ich habe Fragen.

Oder jemand sagt, ich bin ein Arzt und das ist das, worüber du Fragen hast. Und hier sind alle Antworten. Und du sagst, aber wie würdest du das wissen? Ja. Who told you? Yeah, yeah. Why do you think you're smarter than me? Yeah, I mean, do you realize there's a rise in people sort of openly talking about how they don't believe the earth is round? Yeah.

It's like people feel more comfortable in talking about something like, well, how would you know? Confidently stupid. Confidently stupid. Yeah, and I think that because we sort of allowed this, we turned free speech into something that it's not. As a society, we feel like somehow it's limiting somebody's free speech to say, stop saying things that aren't true. Yeah, or that's wrong.

Yeah, what you said is wrong. And so we should turn your volume down because it's just wrong.

Well, that's the thing. Even if, but if you put the person, like, you know, this Flat Earth guy, Rogan had some Flat Earth guy on, was like, told Neil deGrasse Tyson, I want you to talk to him and debate him. And Neil deGrasse Tyson was like, no, I'm not doing that. Like, I'm Neil deGrasse Tyson. Yeah. Like, why would I, why would I waste my time? But somehow we, and then people go, he's afraid.

All right, well, I think we're doomed. Yeah. Yeah. Look at him.

He's afraid of like, life is only this long. Do you know that guy?

Yeah. I've met him a couple of times. He's not in my phone. Not in your world?

I have a very small world. He's not in there. I mean, you know.

You're just touring? I'm touring through the, like we're adding more dates. So I just actually added some southern dates in South Carolina, North Carolina. With the hope of like eventually figuring out. Charleston? Charleston, yeah, yeah, yeah. Got theater there? Yeah, the Charleston Music Hall. Yeah, I'm doing that.

I do okay in San Diego. I figured you would. I didn't even know I did. It was crazy. I'll let people in Charleston know you're coming. I have a hook up there.

We'll work on that. I'm going to actually invest some time into getting you some. You would do well with the blacks. I think so.

But the blacks in Charleston are cosmopolitan blacks.

No, you'd rather book a bigger venue in Atlanta and tell people in Alabama, you better drive.

And they're used to that. They're used to that.

Ja, in Jackson, Mississippi, die ich vor einigen Jahren gemacht habe, war es so, dass ich der Meet-up für jeden Progressiv in der 500-Mile-Area wurde. Es ging meistens darum, sich mit einander zu treffen und Kamau zu sehen. Aber ich dachte, das wäre eine tolle Art, Leute zusammenzubringen. Das ist das, was ich am Anfang gesagt habe. Genau. Lass uns ein paar Flyer schreiben.

Genau, ja. Wir gehen alle in eine Arena in Nebraska. Genau, es wird funktionieren. Aber nein, ich mache das. Ich habe meinen Sub-Stack, der auch Who's With Me heißt. Ich habe viel Zeit da drin gespart. Ich habe mich jetzt von der traditionellen Showbiz entfernt und mache, was ich kann.

Es geht gut. Echt? Es geht wirklich gut. Ich habe es letztes Jahr mit einem halben Eindruck gemacht und mir gesagt, das geht wirklich gut. Und dieses Jahr habe ich es wirklich verbessert. So you write every week? Every week. You know, three times a week. Three times a month basically. But yeah, every week. And I have somebody help me with it who helps me like proofread stuff.

I'm not saying the wrong thing. But yeah, I actually love it a lot because it's like a way to keep my brain working and bits come out of it. Yeah, of course. My latest one, I just was like, how many different insults can I think of for Steve Bannon? And it's like, So it's like a fun challenge.

And you can interact with the community and you own the audience in a way that you don't on these social media platforms. Because they sign up for you and you have their email addresses. It's not like this. So it feels more, it's a better way to spend your time online. You should come to Substack. I know a guy. I write my thing every week.

All you gotta do is put it on... You don't have to change anything. You just put it on Substack. There are gonna be people who come to you who wouldn't know other than that. Just put it on Substack. Oh, yeah? Just put it on Substack. Same thing. You don't have to do anything different. Just a couple pages?

Some people... Ich bin froh, dass ich einen Teil davon bekommen habe. Gut gesehen.

And especially, a lot of this happened to them 30, 40 years ago. Like, why would you still be riding on a lie like this? Yeah, and a lot of them didn't even want to talk about it. Didn't want to talk. And to be fair, a lot of them were like,

The only reason they thought they would talk about it now is because they were like, they believed in, they'd seen my work before and they're like, well, if anybody can pull this thing off, it's you, is what I was being, like, so like, they were like, I'm going to trust you, which is why, even though I often wanted to quit, I was like, I can't do it because these women have trusted me.

And I see you're doing things where you put photos in and stuff. Oh, what? Like when you promote the thing, you put like... Oh, sometimes on Instagram when they do that. Yeah, that's a guy. I'm not... I know it's not you on your phone.

Well, no, one of the saddest things I can hear from my kid is, Dad, can you put the phone down? I'd like to say I've never heard that, but I've heard that. Can you look at me? Can you look at me? Yeah. Oh, really? He says that? It's been, it's been, I got, on occasion, you know, big news story breaks and you're like, whoa, I gotta keep up with this.

No, we don't have to. I feel compelled. I guess my wife says it all the time. I feel compelled to keep up with it.